The Downbeat - Tom Williams (Stray From The Path)

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

My guest this week is Tom Williams, guitarist of my band Stray From The Path, as well as multi-band manager, father, businessman and one of my best friends. We talked about the risks we as a band took when preparing for our upcoming headline tour, as well as what bands should look for in a manager, the father life, what makes a drink 'cool' and much more.

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Loads of cool stuff. Check it out. My guest this week is none other than Thomas Williams off stray from the path. I was in Nashville. You know this by now. He nipped in. was very quick, right? And before we even got time to get really, really funny and stupid, he had to go and do some business stuff. But it works in your favour because we talked a lot

about the music business. He's a manager, a father, the guitarist in my band. He owns a record label. He does so many things. One of my besties is obviously a bestie. I've got maybe three people that I text any kind of business advice I need. Tom Williams is on there. It was a short one, but he hit us with some gems. We are currently about to go on tour together in our amazing band, Stray from the Path. You can get tickets to that at www.straven the path.co. We're in the UK and Europe in October, November, and then November, December, we're in the US of A.

It is Thomas Williams on the Downbeat podcast. That's the start. Wow, what a day. Tom Williams back on the Downbeat. I'm here. At last. Legs out. It's a leggy episode.

It's hot as fuck here. It's hot. How about Nashville, huh? How about them predators? Those preads. They're actually terrible. I meant the other kind. Also terrible.

They're also there. We're off to a good start. Yeah. It is really hot. It's terrible. They don't even go outside. It's awful. You know what is good, though?

What? A.C. It's fucking awesome. It's so unique. You think some fucking, like, Europe. will come to the America and be like, fuck, I love this. I know you do, because like,

here's what's fun is, like, having a band with, like, mix internationally? International members? Internationales. International members is, like, we're both adopting the things that we like from each other's countries, right?

So, like, you're just like, oh, I'm on board with the air conditioning and, like, I'm on board with, like, how good the shows are I guess I was going to say can you give me three things that you prefer in the UK or Europe

that you would like to happen here and I'll give you three from the States well the popularity of our band that would be nice that's nothing to do with the climate no okay so we're just talking like living living stuff

yeah not a lot I'm sorry I know that's why when you said that I was like No, like, America sucks, but it is also sick. You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of cool shit and a lot of cool cities, and I'm just used to it. So it's tough to say.

So from the UK, I do love the UK, but I'm like, your dryers are terrible. The no AC is terrible. The wrong side of the road for me, I feel like I'm going to get hit by a car. You know what, though? I was thinking about this. It's the wrong side of the road for almost everyone.

Yeah. Why bother? I don't know. Because I can't drive on any other country on earth without melting my brain, whereas you could drive in Europe if you had to. I could drive in Europe. I could drive in Japan? I could drive in Australia. I think Japan is on our side.

Wait, is Australia on your side too? Even if they are, these are countries that I rarely go to. Yeah, true. So, yeah, just really Europe. But like, the fact that you're mainland Europe and then you go to UK, go on the other side of the road, so fucking dumb. so there's like shit like that but like man what do i like bransden pickle i love bransden pickle but it's not like game changing air conditioning i mean i could get it here like you can i mean i can get air conditioning can you though is uh is bransden pickle five thousand dollars to install

i would pay five grand to have ac i'm i'm looking into it yeah like why punish yourself it i I saw Oppenheimer and Midnheimer And it was It was Like I felt like I was in a theme park Doing one of those like when they do like a 4D ride Like the bomb goes off And I was like it feels like the bomb's going off

It was so fucking hot It was the craziest thing ever And I was just thinking It's the middle of summer Who's not putting the AC on? They definitely have it Yeah And then I saw Barbie

Barbie it was exactly the same thing Different cinema they just hate it bro like but why whenever i've spoke to someone one of my own kind and be like why don't we have a c because it's really cold for half the year is it's really cold for half the year most places like what do you think new york city is bro and i mean here in tennessee like it gets like negative 10 like fahrenheit which is like fucked up cold and then it gets like 110 that's a We're talking about 100 degrees swing, 100. And, like, I need my AC and then I fucking need my heat.

Like, what are we talking about? You guys don't have radiators either. No, I don't. I grew up with one, though. That's just what we have. And it's so annoying where I'm, like, decorating my house. Great Podcast, by me. I'm decorating my house, and I'm like,

there's just a big bit of ugly metal everywhere. There would be one there. They would ruin this shot. Shout out Garrett, who helped build this scene. He would be freaking out with the radio. You know what I used to call a radiator? Go. A radiator.

I didn't know it was called a radiator for like 25 years. But you didn't need to. In New York, it's a radiator. Makes no sense. Well, everyone still... No, but people from Long Island will call it a radiator. Like Drew and Neck, they'll call it a radiator. I want to hear Drew say it.

He said it was. He said it once. like, yeah, it's a fucking radiator. And I'm like, I was like, you know it's radiator. I was like, Drew Pesci. Yeah. I said radiator my whole life. And then I found out it was radiator. I was like, God, I sound like a fucking moron. So, well, there we go. So you haven't even given me one. No, I don't. I don't have one. Like, I couldn't live in England, but I love it dearly. I don't know how to say that. I'll say it. But you could live in America. I tell you one that there, there is one that I know you think about as a man with a child now.

Yeah. Gun control. Yeah. We ain't got no guns. Someone went into a school annihilated a bunch of people in 93, a bunch of children in 93. And they went, okay, though, they're done. And it never happened again. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, like, it's definitely a conversation about leaving the country, you know, with my family as far as, like, that's a real concern. Like, is someone going to shoot my dog? daughter with a fucking gun possibly like if I said that any most places like someone gonna shoot me everyone will go no impossible I would bet I would bat on it in the UK I'd be like I'll bet I'll take a bat that you won't that it wouldn't happen yeah but here you wouldn't take the bet I would take I mean there's probably good odds on getting shot like what odds would you know I mean plus 10,000 on getting shot like that's pretty good

it's bad though like I mean I don't know like it's like a legit thing where we're like you know but we have family here but where would we go So, you know, and so it's like, it's tough. We don't know what to do. Like, she's still two and a half. She's about to be two and a half. So it's like... Have you got to decide before real school?

I think real school. Yeah. Because, like, here's the thing. If the school shooting stuff was a thing when I went to school, like, okay, here's what I want to say. And this might sound insane. But, like, if I could guarantee that there will be no school shooting until high school. school, I'd probably roll the dice because like if there was a school shooter in my high school when I went to high school, I know that like me, like I have a shot to get out of there.

There's legitimate children getting killed like like fucking five-year-olds. They have no shot. They have no shot. So it's just like they're fucked. So but like when you're in high school, you can, you do crazy things. You know what I mean? And you could sneak out of places and whatever. Take a person down.

I don't know. It's insane that these are like literal possibilities here. Where would you go? I don't know, because I have to think about time zone stuff, like with my work. Like, I could live in the Netherlands. I love it there. I love it there so much. Really?

I really could. Yeah. She'll be fucking speaking. She'll be speaking three languages and shit. Yeah, true. It's so clean. I feel safe there. I love it.

Yeah, but where? Einhoven. I can live in Aindhoven. I can see you living in Oregon. Yeah, it's like, it's so great. But like that time difference sucks. So realistically, it's probably Canada, which I like Canada, but then I was like,

do I want to go to Canadian winters? Are they bad the whole way across? Ontario is is very comparable to like an American city, in my opinion. Like, so like, I feel like I could go to Ontario, you know, and like, you know, the management company I work for is from, from there, to, you know, it's like, oh, you could be an office guy. Yeah, I could. And obviously, that's cool. That's cool. I like that. You know what I mean? Like, the guy, the people I work with, like, I'm talking to them constantly via text. Like, it would be sick if they were,

like, right here, you know? Um, because that stuff does matter. Like, anytime I have, like, flown somewhere and, like, worked in an office, like, just while I'm there with, like, a bunch of people, like, it's, it's cool. It's fun. It helps you, like, get inspired for shit. So I like, that, that idea plus like you know it's that tomorrow yeah i mean it's like Hamilton you know is that where the officers are uh they don't have an office yet they want it they want they were going to get one and then COVID hit and they haven't and then they want to open one and then even when i mentioned like i would come up there they're like oh we definitely would then you know and i and i think that's cool especially because like the you're going to do that maybe i don't know it's tough it really

depends on what everyone else wants to do because i love where i live i really do Like, I love my house. I love my neighborhood. Do you think they'll ever, that I don't think they will? I don't, like, sort out the gun. No. Because by this point, it's gone too far,

because everyone will just go, no. America will never sort itself out. And I can't really blame anyone if they've grown up their whole lives for just not being, like, open to it, because they've just been conditioned.

Yeah, they never will. And the crazy people, the crazy people are having kids, and they're making their kids crazy. You know what I mean? So the next generation of crazy is already being like primed. It'll never sort itself out. It'll be crazy until the earth explodes.

It's too far gone. It's insane. You just get crazier. Yeah, it gets crazier. Like literally like there was a, there was a school shooting 10 minutes from here. Kids. When? A couple months ago, six months ago maybe.

It's insane how they just don't get like news coverage back home because they're so common. They can, and they're so common. And like, most people don't care because they hear about it too much. It's like, they go, oh, that's so terrible. Thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayers. Post. Goodbye.

Yeah. This is depressing. Yeah. I got on to, well, I will give you three. Branson Pickle. Yeah. Guns. Guns.

The guns is huge. That is really cool, though. Not having to pay if you get an ambulance ride. Yep. But the NHS is completely full. fuck, I don't want to go down a rabbit, rabbit hole. But that is still cool. Like, dude, there was someone that, uh, I play in a hockey team here.

And, uh, one of the guys in there, shout out, brooksy. He got, he got his eye fucking destroyed, right? And he had to go into an ambulance and then he had to get surgery. And like, he didn't have insurance. Luckily, he was covered by like the league that we play in. Like, you, high deductible. It was an injury during the game. Oh my God, bro.

Like, I thought his eye was like, like, he was like, he was. like out of his like i never heard a person scream like that before like and it was so crazy was it a puck no it was a stick yeah so like um so anyway he got he had to go and get surgery and ambulance right and his shit was fucking crazy luckily he was covered by the league fees like money was yeah oh i don't know but like five figures tens of thousands of dollars so it's like and then it's like sucks for you yeah it's so crazy getting hit by people don't understand the UK, they think, and again, I can't blame them, oh, I will just have to pay if I want to go and see the doctor.

Correct. And I'll get a better service for it, which is what I currently now, if I have like a problem, I normally just fucking pay to make it faster. Which is fine. And like, like to me, I mean, it's not fine. It's just not as bad as here. Whereas like, you know, anytime we've had to discuss like health stuff with the UK, it's like, I can get it for free.

I don't want to say that, but get it free, but I have to wait. Or you could just go pay for private. Why can't that exist here? So then this way, it's like people who are out on the street, people who are very fixed incomes in super poor, they should be able to go in and like, oh, my hand is fucking destroyed. It's falling off and they go, yeah, kind of fix that. Oh, fuck, let me fix that. Cool. But like, if it's something where it's like, oh, man, my knee is kind of fucked.

I need surgery. It's like, cool. I got you in four months. Yeah. Whatever. Like that sucks, but at least they have an option. Yeah. And then if they're wealthy, they can go in and be like, I want my knee fixed on Thursday.

And they go, all right. 15 grand. And then they go, here you go. Here's the stem cells. Mashed up babies. Get them fucking. Get them fucking in there. What is that?

Stam cell therapy. Mashed up. I don't know if it's the South Park episode is the masked up babies. Hackman? Yeah, but I don't know what it actually is. Yeah. I don't know what it is either. But I was going to say that my friend got it in his shoulder.

But I was like, wait a second. Did he get mashed up babies? He might have done. But anyway, he got it in his shoulder and his shoulder works. It's so sick. It's crazy. But I don't know what they're doing. I don't know.

Someone will comment and tell us what they're doing. I hope they're not mashing babies up. Well, old baby. It's harder to make these jokes with you now that you're a father. But they pop you more, though, because of that. There's a level of uncomfortable that happens and go. Oh, man, dude, it's funny because, like, so Ramsey likes this show or movie called Zootopia. You ever see it?

No. It sucks, too, because it's, like, such, like, copaganda for, like, kids. But she just loves it. And we've gotten her off it. We've got her watching this movie Rio, which is just about a bird, right? Oh, I know the one. Yeah, so. And now she says, it goes, I want the birdie.

That she says, but before she doesn't say Zootopia. it's about a bunny and a fox but she goes bunny fuck bunny fuck and i'd be like fox uh fox and she goes fuck it's crazy so it's like it's when you're like our sense of humor and like our awareness like that like because back in the day of your kids would be like oh my god how could like now it's just like fuck and i'm just like that's not it do you like because i've never done anything barony yeah obviously the first time she did that you laughed your ass off died yeah but did that then

encourage her to say it more like how do you approach that situation honestly we kind of just get her to say it more exactly that's what i thought because i was like i know this motherfucker i got i i have a video before we play the audio it's pretty good get it because because you'll hear me i'll be like i'll just be like it's fox and she goes fuck get it get it right now it's good is this a screw top uh i don't know you got to tell me how that is anyway well we're going to get on that. Here it is right here. Excuse me?

What are you saying to me? Oh, one. Are you saying fox? Yes. Yes, a fox? Yes. A bunny and what? A fox.

That's a hard C-K. It's a fox. That's only like she said, what the fuck? Ramsey. Fox. It's the fox. Ramsey. F-O-S.

Fox. The fuck. The fuck. That's fucking fun. She has a good one right here. Is it a bunny and what? Fuck. That's a pure fuck.

That's it. Just straight up. So we'll get like, I'll like you wrong because it's kind of funny and I don't like post it. I like never really post her anymore but like I'll just send it to Sherilyn

and be like, look at this. Here's a question about posting kids. Yeah. You ever hide it with an emoji? No. Right. What's your thoughts on that? I don't really post it anymore because, but I wouldn't do that.

Like, to me, I'm just like, alright. I can't fucking stand it. Like, don't post it then. Yeah, don't post it, yeah. But, there is an option to not post the kid. I don't post, you know, like to me, so my wife has like a private, you know, Instagram. Like, she has her professional one and her private one. And then if you're friends with me, like on that level,

you're also friends with her on that page. So you could see kids show on that, right? But like when I was posting on mine, it's like, this is going out to like 12,000 people. And she doesn't know. And that is weird. Yeah. You know what I mean?

So it's like... But then you just don't post it at all. The emoji over the face is just like, you just don't need to. I see like celebrities do that. And I'm just like, just don't post the kid. Like,

and then also they all probably have private ones with their friends fault. So why is it on the one with like four million? close friend story all that shit i uh i took it too far with someone that we know once but i'm not going to tell you who it was i probably have an idea yeah but i made sure first that everything was okay with the kid and then it annoyed me so much that i asked is there something wrong with your kid because they kept posting with an emoji he said what do you mean i said because you keep hiding the face like is everything okay

It went down terribly. Oh, it's a privacy thing. And I was like, you didn't get the pop. Of course not. Me, say, does your kid have a mashed up face? I get that, though. That makes sense. Because I used to post it, and I was like, it is weird being a person.

Because look, we could go back to the Nirvana thing, right? Preface this, because enough times past that people might have forgotten. What happened? So the baby from Nevermind. Now a man. Now a man. Wanted to be paid because they never got paid for that. And like...

Or the parents took $200. $200. For a record, like what it's a $50 million copies or whatever? One of the most iconic covers ever. And literally his fucking, you know... Kid Johnson. You could say kid Johnson? I was going to say something else.

anyway like was you know it's all over the fucking world right and he wanted to get paid and everyone's like oh he's looking to cash in i'm like his fucking child say cock his fucking child his fucking child cock is on everything right and he had no say in that yeah that is fucked up and like and then he wants to come get paid for it and then everyone's shit on him and i'm like imagine if your fucking childcock was on 50 million album sold and god knows how many streams right and this guy just wanted to get paid how come everyone that owns that record couldn't just be like just pop in a hundred grand and let's just give this give this kid a half a million when you think of it like that though he could be on the bus and there could be someone next to

to him on Spotify, looking at his God. How insane is that? It's crazy. So, like, so you, you need to think about it from, like, he didn't have a say. They threw him in a fucking pool. Why didn't they give him a bit of money? Give him some fucking money. And everyone was, like, shitting on this kid.

And I'm just like, imagine. I think the shitting came from the lawyer went pretty hard. The lawyer fucking blew it. The lawyer blew it. The lawyer. Yeah. I don't want to say that full sentence. But, like, and the lawyer, like, the lawyer, like,

Because then honestly, if someone came at me with that accusation, I'd be like, go fuck yourself. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, but like, why couldn't his dude just pick up the phone and call Dave? Apparently, Dave is cool. Like, he's got money. Just call, like, he's got more money than he knows what to do with it. And so do the rest of them.

And it's like, I just, I don't know. So going back to the root of the conversation, like, these kids can't consent to it. So, like, you know, you don't have to do it all time. Like, so third part. Post them on closed stories. Don't post them on a front cover album. If it's her birthday, like sometimes I'll make a post about it, but very rarely. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Because like, I don't like sharing much about my private life anymore. I think I would just keep it completely locked. Yeah, I mostly do that. And, but I just don't like sharing much of my private life regardless. You know what I mean? So, but sometimes I feel like it, you know, it's up to me. You just shared a lot of it.

Yeah, I did. Yeah. My favorite thing about America. other than the AC is how cool your goddamn drinks are. Did we figure out if this is a screw top?

Yes, it is. But a bit of a preface if you haven't listened, Tom has been on the downbeat before, but it was in 2018 before fatherhood, before most of our good albums.

We were making our second good one. Was it in time? Yeah, we were making it. Oh, it's a screw top, bro. Swat.

No, I don't need you to do it for me. Because it's going to be, that's committed to film that you can't open a bottle. It's literally just... So I think we talked about it on... Don't take a sip yet. This might suck shit, but go ahead.

I think we talked about it on the last podcast. Yeah. We got a thing stray. Yeah. But it's just me and you, really. It is really. If we stop at a gas station, we go, one person's going in. Give me a cool drink.

I would say neck is in there too. Drew's usually asleep by a cool drink hours. Neck will, Like, NEC goes in, doesn't ask you, doesn't say anything, just comes in and be like, he's like, got your Reese's fast break. It's like, I was like, cool, bro. He's the nicest man on planet. Yeah, he really is fantastic.

Pure sweetheart. But what, what, um, to you, like, say you asked me to get a cool drink, what are you looking for? Color is a big thing. So like, I went to Whole Foods, unfortunately, so it's got a lot of like, oh. No poison, you know. No. poison so I'm like okay

I need color like this looks cool you know it's it's literally ginger brew but then it's a non-alcoholic and I was like Craig's on the non-alcoholic trick yeah um and uh you know so I don't know

it look it definitely looks cool right it could suck you want to know something funny what currently I'm contractually obliged for 30 days from yesterday to not post this on my Instagram Any drink?

Any drink that could be related to a non-alcoholic beer. All right. So what if we sip it and it sucks and we go, oh, man, you should buy, fucking whatever you do. This is going to come out after that, so it's fine. Okay. But how crazy is that? No drink. Not even another beer, actually, even an alcoholic beer.

That I get. But like, what, you can't have anything? Oh, I can have. I guess this is not. I thought this was trying to be a, the brew. No, it's the brew. Ginger beer. okay the color if you're just listening to this

fuck you because this took me so long to set up the video the color looks like a Shrek load yeah I imagine the amount is probably the volume the volume is probably the same are we trying it is very gingery I like that that is spicy it does say spicy in the fucking label it's cool if you came back with that I'd be like that's

you did the best with what you had it's fucking spicy it's crazy drink I kind of don't fuck with it I quite like it I'm gonna drink it would you like a waterloo I have a

backup waterloo I'm gonna suck this water down that really fucked me up though holy shit what should my criteria is I feel like I want to say blue

is the coolest drink blue like a green blue, light purple. Load being, yeah, the cherry glacial. Yeah, that's the best flavor. Top tier. That is the top tier.

Most drinks that look like a load look good. Do you want to just briefly delve into your gambling career? Because some of this is related. What a fucking thing. Yeah, I can. So, I mean, I fucking grew up playing. man, playing poker in like home game and stuff and it just turned into like, man, this band with...

Hold on one second. You think what I said is unrelated to what I just said. Yeah. Think about it. What are we talking about? The gamble. What will we be talking about? The cool drink.

Yeah. The color of the cool drink. Yeah. Ah, got you. It was actually huge brain move. Yeah, yeah. So if you want to start with that and then we'll go back through. I'll give you the gist. So anyway, I like got, I used to go to poker rooms where like poker in

Long Island is illegal. So I would go to like sketchy underground plate like basement of a pizza place, like pool halls and like just weird buildings that with like a big dude named Mario sitting at the door with a gun like just weird stuff. Is that legal? Fuck though. Absolutely fucking not. And luckily I've never been raided by cops, but like some of my friends that did it, like, they, they have. They've had shotguns in their face and shit. Been robbed, like, crazy stuff. And, and, uh, so anyway, I, I was a poker dealer. And honestly, I made so...

How old are you at this point? 18. That's a child stealing. Yeah, yeah. I was, I was fucking good. You've seen me shuffle cards and shit. Like, it's funny because, like, people sit down and play cards and I'm just like, and they're like, what the fuck was that?

I'm, I'm just been doing this. And then the thing. hits them. Yeah, and they're like, oh, God. But so anyway, I used to do that, but honestly, I made so much money. Like, that's how, like, I funded, like, all of our touring. Like, because when we used to tour by ourselves and, like, you know, book them ourselves and I don't know how we paid for shit, but, like, a lot of it was that.

Like, I put my own money into it, you know, so. Um, so anyway, I've been involved with gambling for since as long as I could remember. And, uh, and then now, like, I will dabble in sports betting. Yeah. Which is now legal? It's legal. It's never used to be. Yeah, I used to have a bookie in Long Island.

His name was B-Rad. B-Rad. Yeah, B-Rad. Is that Brad? But he called him. Brad, yeah, it was B-R-R-R-D. But anyway, he was like our bookie, and I'd do it that way. Like, it's fucking sketchy, right?

Never didn't get paid, though, if I got paid. And there was never an issue. But now I could just do it through here, and it's fucking sick. And then, like, and I do it a good amount. the point where I'm a VIP. So, like, they'll hit me up and they'll just be like, hey, Tom, like, I got a, I got a box for Billy Joel tonight. You want to come?

I'm like, oh, I'm good. Wait, that's still happening. Yeah, that's, that happened a couple months ago. That never go. Why don't you go? Because it's fucking Billy Joel. I don't give a shit. And I got a kid.

In my head, it's the cast of Goodfellas and you in a Billy Joel box. No, no, now it's like you could just gamble on your phone. No, you just is a fucking app and stuff like that. The sketchy stuff I haven't done in a while. because honestly man like it's it's fucking sad like um uncut gems bro like it's that like i had this dude his name is flip i don't know what his real name was and like so far we got be right and we go be right flip that's literally what it is and then it's it's literally like rounders and uncut gems like is is very accurate you know there's a guy named worm and he's dealing it like shit like that

And so anyway, this guy flip and he would come in and he was a fucking maniac, right? He was a maniac. Not to the point of like where you would think of like him as like this crazy loud, whatever. He would just be shoving and gambling like crazy. And this one time, they used to have a house by the train station and I was dealing and his fucking wife comes and banging on the door. And they have security cameras. So he sees you because that's my wife. And I'm in the box dealing, right?

And then, like, he goes to get up, and as soon as they open the door, he goes to talk to her. And he's like, you fucking gambling the mortgage again, you fucking piece of shit. It's bad. So, like, me and my friend that used to deal, we dealt together, who is now in music and, and manages, like, big bands, right? Anyway, we always, that's what we've always wanted to do. Like, we would, I would go to his house and we would sit on the back, on his, like, back porch. And we would just be playing cards each other, just talking about. being managers one day, like, and how we want to, like, change management for this?

Are you deliberately not saying his name? I just don't know if he wants people to know that story, honestly. So, um, but anyway, I would imagine he would, but I'm not going to put that out there because that is a professional right now. Yeah, for sure. So anyway, like, so we said, we're like, let's just quit this shit. Like, let's, let's, let's folk. Because if we get arrested, then, like, you have trouble getting into Canada.

You have trouble getting into England. And you have trouble getting into Australia. and it's like, you just, and like you got, you deal with these scummy fucking, you know, I don't mean to be harsh and call them degenerates, but like, because it's a problem. Like being, you know, I've, I've had issues with gambling before where like, you know, luckily it's only been a few times in my life where you lose control, right? And there's two moments I could think in my life where I lost control, right? Where I like, I normally leave whatever I have to leave and then play with what I want.

But there's two times in my life where I went back and got what I had to leave and I lost it all. You know, so. How long ago were there? 2013. And when did you join the band? 2016, January, 2016. I remember that was the last time I was like, I'm not doing this ever again. Was that Australia?

Australia. It was Dan's last tour. The last time I gambled was in Australia as well. Sydney Casino. You got fucked up? Yeah, and I haven't done it since. Well, I mean, I've gambled since, but I haven't gambled recklessly like that. Because I went, how reckless was.

I mean, I mean, I lost in a day, 5,000 Australian. And like, and yeah, I mean, I brought a thousand to the casino. And that should be more than enough to have some fun. If I lost it, obviously that sucks, but it's not the end of the world. But, you know, losing, at that point in my life, losing 5,000 Australian, let's say it's 3,500 US, like was a lot of money. Was it black check? It was black check, yeah.

and what's crazy, I remember the last hand because I put, I had $1,000 left, and I put $500 out, which is a big fucking bet. I put $500 out, and he dealt me two aces, and he had a face card. And so I had my last 500 back, and I didn't split the aces because I was scared. I didn't want that to be my last hand.

So I didn't split the aces, and he deals me two tens. So I have 22, I busted. So, but if I just split them, I have 21 twice. And then honestly, I'm, I probably come back from there. Yeah. Because I've, I've been things where I'm stuck. But I know that, like, if you go to a casino, like, you got to ride it out to the point where it's like, if you get your ass kicked for an hour, you have to just deal with the ass kicking. Most people go get their ass kick and go, oh, I'm done.

Right. But I deal with the ass kicking and then it comes back. And then when I know it's coming back, I unload and I fucking make it all back. Like, right? I'm really good with that. And like, so if I split those aces and win there, I make my money back 1,000%. But because I was scared, I didn't split, I busted, I put the last 500 out the next day, and I got dealt 16 and lost.

So it was just like, and then I just was so fucking depressed. And like, so I was like, I'm never doing that again. Like, so like I have lost control a couple times. So anyway, that's why I don't mean to call these guys degenerate. So going back to what I was saying, me and my friend, we were like, let's fuck this. Like, let's just go focus on what we've. want to go do, right? And we did that, and we're both doing it right now, right? So I loved it. It was a lot of fun, and, like, I was really good at it, but...

It's not like career. No, I mean, that's a thing, is I saw the people there that were doing it for a career, and it was just so, it was so tragic to me. Like, that's all these people did was just like, every day, we're just dealt with gambling, and that's, to me, not fun, you know? And now you've learned your lesson and you gamble on that, which was my point, You gamble on the color of the Gatorade. Yeah, that's right, baby. It gets dunked over the coach and wins the Super Bowl. I like to call myself the Gatorade Godfather.

How many times have you won it? I don't know, but more times than I've lost it. I probably say I win that bet almost every year. And how broad is the spectrum of color? Full RGB? Clear, purple. Wow. Dude, if it's a Gatorade color, it's on there.

And here's the thing. So it's got me like one in 12? Yeah, I mean, it's most of the time orange, red or blue. Most of the time, right? When I've won, it's orange, red or blue. However, there was one year, and I bet purple. I knew, I remember this. Purple was plus 4,000.

And what that means is like, so if something is plus 4,000, that means if you put up $100, every hundred wins you $4,000, right? And if something is like minus $4,000, that means you have the put up 4,000 to win 100. Okay, so that's how it is for people who don't understand. So, like, you know, if you wanted to bet, like, you know, messy to score on his first game or whatever, it'll be like minus 200. So you have to put up 200 to win 100, right?

So anyway, purple was plus 4,000. So I was like, I'm putting 100 bucks on it. That sounds fun, right? Then Kobe Bryant died, rest in peace. And purple... You fucking hooked you out. Purple went from plus 4,000 to plus 300. So like, and I had it locked at 4,000,

everyone thought it was going to be purple because of Kobe. So like, there's that and say shit. It wasn't. Oh, what? I thought it was. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. No.

But I just, I did it as like a throwaway thing and then it was a thing. And then everyone's talking about it. And then it ended up being blue that year, which I also had to. Cover your bases. Yeah, I mean, you got to sprinkle a little bit, you know. I'm sorry to me. interrupt the podcast, but I've got to tell you about the sponsor of today's podcast, Athletic Greens. AG1 by Athletic Greens is a concentrated blend of 75 different adaptogens, vitamins, minerals,

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What? When is the Super Bowl? February. Oh, I was going to say. Why did you do it in February? I don't know. Because no one's doing shit. It sucks in February.

Kind of sick. Because summer's too full of shit sports wise. Correct. And honestly, like, you know, you hear about that now with like music, whereas like, you know, people are selling stuff. like the fall. And like, so like even like our tour, right? Let's talk about.

We could get into that too. But like, so, so why we've made the, the gambling, we're on gambling too. We're gambling, yeah. So, so why we've got, why we've tried to gamble with this show is because we've sold so many tickets in a time where no one's selling tickets. Yeah. So like everyone's just been like, no one's selling tickets now and you are and you have three and a half, four months before the show, like, I think it's going to pick

up a lot. Let's do some backstory. Yes. Okay. So, T it up. We have a headline tour. Yep. Biggest one of our career, even at the original venue.

Yep. Biggest one of our career. It is in October. What day is it? October? October. November. It's October 25th to November 18th.

And it goes all throughout mainland, Europe, where we go to Spain, France, Switzerland, Vienna, Austria, Netherlands, Germany, and I think, and the Czech Republic, right?

And then it also goes to the UK. And, but yeah, continue to end up. So, last London show that we did, biggest headline show

of our career? At the time, yeah. Still to the state. And it was Islington Academy, London. What's that,

800? 850 cap, and we sold it out six weeks before it happened, which is important. So we, took, if you don't know, because a lot of people listening are like in smaller bands and I don't know. Your goal is always to make a bigger step without falling flat on your face.

Correct. So for us, the bigger step was Brixton Electric. Correct. 1500 cap. We then proceeded to sell the same amount of tickets that we previously sold out Islington in advance, as you said, at a time when no one was selling tickets. You manage a lot of bands, we'll get into that. You compared the first, what, three-week sales with other bands. Yeah. We were crushing it. So the next logical choice is to jump up a venue.

The only available venue is ginormous, or did we want to skip? There was two. So it wasn't that we want to. So personally, I'm pretty sure it was a band goal, but for me, I was like, I want to play, I want to headline the roundhouse by 2025. That's been my goal for probably since you joined, probably since you joined the band. Because we've played it supporting them a bunch of times and it's always incredible. We played it twice and and it's funny because I was with Zach Power the other day and he showed me the video the first time we played it with Amity and North Lane.

And like, and I was like, fuck, like look at us. We look so young. Like you and Drew, especially. It was like, holy shit. So, but anyway, it was just the goal of my, like, I love that venue. I think it's so cool, like, fucking radio head headlines there, you know? And I always say, like, you know, like bands like us, like, for the longest time, we're never supposed to be there. You know?

Like, we've always had to scratch and fucking claw for our shit, right? Like, we've, we've had our people that help us, like, you know, Daniel P. Carter, big ally, right? you know, Kareng, like big ally, right? You know, and we have our people

that work for us, you know, Nanook, Mark James, like all these people that are like, you know, you and FD

that have been with us, but we've never been like the big fucking, you know, industry plant kind of fucking bump. Yeah. We've had to just go up there and kill it,

just the four of us, right? So like, we never supposed to have this shot. So anyway, so I also manage counterparts, alongside my partner Rich, we do it together.

But anyway, when we did their last tour, and they headlined, it was with Kubla Khan, pale face, and dying wish, right? And we looked at when they went on sale, and when we went on sale, and in three weeks, they were supposed to play Islington Academy, right? So 850 cap.

Previously, they only did the underworld, you know, in the dome. So anyway, we looked at theirs, and within like three weeks, they were at like almost 400 tickets sold, which is almost half, and they had like the same amount of time. And then we were like, fuck, like, we're already halfway. And we have four months. We should upgrade.

So we upgrade to Bricks and Electric. And they sold that out in advance, right? So we shot for 850, and we had to go to 15, and they still cleared that, you know? So then I looked at our advance in three weeks, and like, we were double what counterparts was at, right? And like, counterparts went to 1,500, right? which is what we were trying to do. And so I was just like looking at the trends of tickets and I was just like, and obviously, like, you know,

we talked about it a lot, the four of us. Because it was like, okay, we should do it. And if it doesn't sell X amount, we could lose this much, you know? And if we sell this amount, we make the same as we would selling out Brixton. You know, so it was like all this shit, but it was just like, let's do it.

You know, this will be fun. You can give numbers of tickets sold. Sure. So in the first month, I mean, we were at 1,000 tickets. You know what I mean? And roundhouse is three. 3,000, yeah, with seats. So, like, I think it's 2,500 standing.

And so, like, so we sell 1,000 in a month. So we're 66% of the way there in a month. And we had four months to go. Yeah. So we had to upgrade. We had to. And honestly, like, Glasgow, we're in. a 700 cap. You know what's cool too. I want a side note on Glasgow because it's like the UK,

especially since you've joined. Like it's weird. I feel more like at home with them than I would have like New York. You know. Because you know us now. Sure. And dude in Glasgow like even though the tour we did in 2019, which was so stacked. It was Gideon, Loth and the Devil Wars Prado, right? It was stacked. And that tour sold really great. Sold out every UK show. But, but, But like in Glasgow, we had to fucking crawl to selling like 350 tickets because it was always so slow. And now we're in a 700 cap and it's got like 550. So it's like 150 tickets left with four months. Yeah.

So we could have upgraded that too, but we couldn't find a venue. I mean, Birmingham's going to sell out too. We can't find a venue. So like, I don't know, man. I hope this doesn't sound like we're like fucking sucking each other off here. But like... No, because I think if you look at straight, it's pretty evident that this. that the transition has been pretty fucking linear.

Like it hasn't been suddenly, oh, this happened, so they popped off. Yeah. But it's like, you know, we've had to, like, we weren't expecting this stuff. Like, even though like the, we did that November, like underplay and like the Newcastle, like B market kind of UK stuff,

Newcastle and like Edinburgh and stuff. And like, that tour was great. Like, we were going, we were very uncomfortable and, you know, we're kind of burnt out a little bit. PTSD from, yeah, like, we had a tough. tour, right? So, like, we couldn't really relish in how crazy that was. And then we did the bare tooth motionless tour where it really felt like we kind of punched through a different

ceiling on that one, right? And then we do this festival run. And I remember we played, we played download. And the band before us, like, like, they had a really good crowd, but I was like, I was like, man, I was like, I, for us was expecting, would be, would expect a little bit more than this, right? So I was like, kind of word. You know what I mean? We have all these people of friends and industry people watching us. They're all there waiting to watch us and I'm just like I sweat a little bit, right?

Wasn't going to shell it, but you know, sweating a little bit. And man, we went, we sucked the Red Bulls down and you couldn't see grass. It was, was that your favorite show ever? It's up there. I think so. I think it's mine. I think so. Like it's weird because I feel like

I liked Hellfest more just because it was more like chaos you know like it was more less less people but still an insane amount of people more than i was expecting for france and like and they went fucking nuts to the point where it was like it was just like we were also up against laura shaw which i know we have completely different fans but it's like if you're just a kid who's just got into heavy music you probably go and watch laura shaw because you've seen it's more exciting and you've seen us a lot yeah and if you have to see a band that you've seen a lot

versus a band that's super hot right now you pick that right so dude there was that we played during disturbed once and we were like not overall right this is whatever like let's just go give it all like whoever shows up let's play for them packed bro like packed

so like we're seeing this shit that like you know it unfolded for us in this part that we've been working so hard for it and like we almost weren't even expecting it you know and it's like it started like people really started showing up for us so like so after seeing how bare tooth worked and then after seeing these festivals and like we're just like fuck it

let's go for it like if we wanted to do we wanted to do roundhouse forever and now is the chance to go for it and and we're gambling for sure you know like so we need to emphasize how much of a gamble it is so people buy tickets but also because it's like it's not we've got 16 what it was going to be 1550 1500. 1500. is for a Brixen election. 1,500 in Brixen and that election. I'm not the manager he is. Yeah.

We were definitely going to sell that out. 100%. So, the options were a 2,000? The forum. The forum, which is... The venue kind of thought. I don't know, I've never been there, but it has more seats than the roundhouse. Yeah, that's what I mean.

The venue itself is fine, but more seats, which would be 2,000, and we would... It's a very small gamble, we're likely to sell that out. Yeah. or we do roundhouse which is 3,000, it then puts us two years ahead of our schedule that we're planned. Yep. But if we do the 2,000 that we assume we'll do, we will lose. Can I say the number? Um, yes. 10,000 pounds. Correct. Not like we lose it. Not like we would get paid 10,000 less. less. Yes.

But if we do 2,500 and above, we would make the same. If we do, a 2,500 would make the same as the venue

that we were definitely going to sell out. When you lay it out like this, it makes me sound like a bad manager. So, yeah, we are gambling 500 tickets, approximately 500 tickets

to make the same amount of money as a 100% guaranteed sell out because, we believe in the band being able to do maybe 2,500 or maybe even 3,000. Yeah. I think we could do 2,500. And everyone that I...

So please buy a ticket. Yeah, buy a fucking ticket, please. And honestly, like, you know, I have, you know, I trust my gut more than anything. I trust the three of you guys. And then I trust maybe five other people. And I asked them all. And every single one of them said, go for it. Every single one of them.

And, like, there wasn't... The only, the people that were more hesitant were you guys. And, and I get that. I mean, you and Drew. Nack was just like, yeah, fuck it. Rare. But, you know, so like, I, but, but Nek had the same approach. Me, it's like, yeah, it'll be fun.

I'm like, of course. So, like, me and Drew, we're like, what's the money? Give me the figures. But to be fair, you know, we talked about it because, like, we were here and what other bands were getting paid on those festivals. And, like, we, we don't, we're pretty shocked at. we did so and it's funny because like i was even talking to nanook about it he's like you feel like we got shafted and i was like yeah bro like i saw and i don't want to mean it like he did a bad job because then i then i really realized i was like we confirm those in november of 2002

manuk is our talking agent just he's like stray family too yeah yeah so yes for sure i forget i have to do that sometimes um what a good host thank you very much a hostess our host so so yeah Anyway, he was just like, you think we got shot that? I was like, yeah, like, we're getting paid literally 10% of what bands are playing, and they're playing to less crowds and less of a reaction. And sometimes less crowd in a higher slot. Yeah, for sure, literally. And on a bigger stage.

And it's like, so yeah, like this sucked. And then it was like, well, we did confirm these a long time ago, but before we knew. And at the time, we confirmed these festivals for the money that we were getting paid. When did we confirmed? November of 2020. too. So like before the like underplay before bear tooth, you know, like so a lot changed. And honestly, the record had only been out for two months. The record just came out. And it slaps. Bro, like, I mean, honestly, so that's the thing. Like every, obviously everyone you talk to about

their new record. It's the best one, right? It is the best one. That's what I would say. It's by far the best stray record. I listen to other stray records and I go, I wish I did this. I don't like this song, blah, blah. That's the, this is the first record where I like 90, 5% of it. What's the five? Most of salt in your spit. Same. Yeah.

The end is perfect. We do it all the fucking time. But we do it. Here's the best breakdown in the world. Yeah. And then it's at the end of dog shit. Like, but,

but we usually have a couple of those. Whereas this one. Drag 8 and 9. Yeah. Well, so this is needful. Love it. May you live forever.

Love it. Three. Bread and Roses. Giotin. insane one through five and then law abiding chest candy neighborhood

ladder work like like those to me are fucking bangers right and then even the one song I'm unhappy with is still 50% good you know so but anyway like it doesn't matter if we love it it fucking doesn't matter at all it matters if everyone else loves it

and this is the first time that like our opinions met because like we put out only death is real and like because of all the shit that happened like it really got looked over and we had to fight through that to get people to listen to it and then internal we put out and then the pandemic so like that also didn't get a fair shake so we had the fucking Nazi attack and on only death is real and then we have a pandemic and then that's why we're playing fucking fortune teller and it's like people are hearing it for the first time which is crazy you think because that's an old strait sorry it's literally 2018 we wrote it came out in 2019 it's 2023

and we're playing it and it's like second best of this show you know so um so anyway but like look going back to this tour you know seeing how it was going like we just fucking went for it you know counterparts did the same thing we went for it worked right and um and for us we're going for too and you know what if 2,000 people come and even still like financially it might not be great it's still fucking cool and it's not going to look bad it will not because you're you you know what the first one of the times we played there the on the video that zack showed me there was less than 2000 there and it still looked sick i remember we was we were sold that tour and you're gonna do so much in much we got absolutely fucked up the ass we we it changed it changed

everything for us because like we were so used to just having to take that's a good opportunity you got to take it to invest that's a good opportunity got to take it to invest and now i feel like we're in the time where those decisions are starting to pay off so you know that tour actually was great for us it was but we made no money but we got killed yeah because we were getting paid fucking

what's the line up amity North Lane straight bro it was fucking wage war stray North Lane Amity how stacked is that tour how fucking stacked it couldn't happen now think about it couldn't it couldn't and think about this like

like wage war got paid less than us wage war on first a wage war on first it was fucking stacked but like you know the tour was cool for sure but like Like, it was, no, the tour was really good. That was the first time that, like, the next time we came back, it was like, damn, it feels like there's more people here, you know?

More people here for us. I've never seen these fucking people, you know? So, like, we're out there, man. We've just, that's what I was talking about. Like, like, lately we've had, like, a Kerang cover, you know, and we've done, like, you know, serious and BBC, like, debuts of songs. But other than that, like, we'd never have that kind of firepower behind the band. and it was always just go and play

and the thing is you know and we gotta give the hats off to fucking Drew like I mean Drew really knows how to get a show going so like seeing straight like no one else dude like he gets me going like there's times where I don't not say I don't care

but like I'm I get a six out of ten you know I'm not like height of who knows what else I got going on and I get up there and I hear him talking I'm just like I want to fight I want to fight everybody you know what I mean like on that run we just did there was a festival i can't remember what it was and i was feeling at like a four or five yeah and drew was just unbelievable i wish i can remember which one it was you'll know what and he just fucking

yeah wanted to put a hole in the floor and then but when he's like super aggressive talks a little bit longer but then when he just remember the first time he said gold jacket green jacket who gives who gives a shit on stage yeah dude that's what the one thing that like i think he he he he That really took him to another level when we said, like, yo, do your thing, but also talk to the crowd like you talk to us. You know what I mean? Like, Rojobe, he just like, it feels more fun and relaxed. But then he also knows how to take it to like a fucking level. So, like, seeing us, you know, it's like we're not up there with any crazy production.

You know, we're just up, you know, we're up there with real amps. It's just the four of us. And I love that. And I love that. And like, it's really hard for that to. click these days, you know? So, you know, again, we're not supposed to, like, bands like us aren't supposed to be in this position. And because we're here, and we have a chance to be, we were, like, all the decisions we make where we do something for less money, because it'll,

like, get us more exposure or whatever, to me, those are, like, defensive moves, right? That's how that we keep the fucking ball moving, right? Now it's like we're playing, we're being offensive. And I like that. And we've never been offensive before. Like, we've always had to, like, What's smart. Oh, let's do this. Blah, blah, blah. Like, no. Like, now it's just like, yo, we sold a thousand tickets in a month.

Like, let's go for fucking three. Like, let's fucking do it, you know? Do you have, because I definitely do, does getting old play into your decisions on any of this? In a way where it's not like, oh, I have to do this because I got to stop soon. Like, in a way of where it's just like, I want to do this less in the future. not like I would love to be in this band until I'm 50 you know what I mean but like that means doing like a U.S. tour and a Europe tour you know what I mean or like or one year is just festivals like I would love that you know because like that's the thing like so stray is like the fucking nucleus of this stuff right and but now that we're getting older you know you have the downbeat and like I'm managing bands and you know Drew's opening a studio and Neck is you know he opened his studio withdrew to do videos and he's doing music videos and we have other passions. I have a fucking family now and like, but I love Stray. Like Stray gave me everything I have, right?

You know? And like it gave like next not doing videos. Like think about if you didn't join Stray would this exist, you know? Like we talked about this like I could picture you on the front bench, you know, and I'm in shotgun and we're just looking back and you're talking to us about making this podcast, right? So think about like, you know, maybe you're still teaching kids and stuff. I would have been. I definitely would have been. You would have been. And then what if that burnt you out?

And then what if you didn't play anymore? It was already burning me the fuck out. Dude, if you didn't join the band, we probably break up. You know what I mean? Like, there's so many, like, little tiny things that, like, you know, butterfly afflux shit. You know what I mean? If Dan quits and you don't join and then we get some other guy to join and he's not fun, like we're fucked, you know what?

Maybe we're fucked, you know? And then the record isn't, because what's so cool and, like, obviously, that's what people like about us now and I like, too, is like, you know, we always used to, you to be like this. Oh, it's sound like rage. You're like, cool. We did to an extent. But now it's like we're merging this like rage and like Musuga with Drew over

it. And it's like, this shit hasn't been heard before. You know what I mean? And it's like fun. Like when we just like fuck around and we just like lock eyes and I'm like, that's cool. Pull out the phone. Recording. We write, we write records so quick. So it's like, dude, before are you joined? Like I used to write everything. You know what I mean?

Like obviously the guy is pitched in here and there. But like, dude, like I had to come to the idea with the song. That was so much pressure. You literally couldn't do it now. No. Is it how busy you are with everything else? No. I mean, no, but you know what? Unless we're getting paid. Twitch. Hello. Um, but no, but like, I probably could, but I probably couldn't manage to the extent that I'm doing. You know, I'd have to make less money. And I would have to carve out more time for it. And then who knows if I'd love it as much? You know, because right now I'm having fun writing. Before I looked at it and it was so much pressure. I hated it. I hated it.

Because that was just like, this sucks. Like, if this sucks, it's my fault. You know what I mean? Whereas now, I feel like if I write something and you think it's cool, it's cool. You know what I mean? And then like, and the fact, dude, you've like, I mean, needful things. The first thing you hear in the record, that's, you started that. Like, the amount of times that something has started that wasn't from me.

Craig's delight was the original term because it had loads of my drumbeys. You literally just sent me didin, d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-on-d-bill. And I was just, and then I just hit open, bro. with an octave. Everyone still goes, sounds like rage. Actually, the drumbeat is stolen

completely from a sugar. From a sugar, yeah. And so, like, so I don't know, like there's so many little things that have happened

whereas, like, Stray is just, is given all of us now these other lives, right? Which I love. And like,

I'm very passionate about, about management, my family and shit, and you're very passionate about this and, and, you know, and Nack and Drew. And it's like,

we should also be nurturing that stuff because then also when you go on tour you're like not in downbeat mode and that's good for the downbeat I can't fucking do it that's good for the downbeat when I'm on stage I'm not thinking about fucking foreign hands you know or whatever like I'm just thinking about stray and like you know so it's good to have that and honestly because now like we have fucking we had four months off from the last thing we do the next thing and like now I see this our like headliner I'm dying to play I'm dying to play. Before?

No, I'd be like, I gotta go clock in. That's what I always regretted that before the pandemic. We did Australia and we were headlining. We were with Kubla Khan. Like, what else could you ask for? The shows were like all sold out. I was getting divorced and you were having a worse time than me. Dude, yeah, it was, man.

Like, I never forget, like, we played Melbourne and it was sold out. And Sam Carter was there. He did First World with us. We had so many friends. and I was just like, get me the fuck home, dude, fuck this. I was just so over it, because it's like we burnt ourselves out. So when I think about age, like, I don't feel old. I don't think we're an old band.

I think our sound is super youthful, and I think our best material is still ahead of us. So I'm dying to play. But like, when I think about age, I want to be in this band forever, but I do not want to do it. Like, we used to do it, and how we currently do it is cool for now, but I want to do it less than, because then it'll be even more special and then everyone could still take care of the other things in their lives. So this goes back to like when I was gambling in Australia

and I was squeezing it because I need to get it back. I don't want that roundhouse decision to be that. Where it's like, oh, can I cut a corner here? Because we've never cut corners. We've never cut them. So I don't want it to look like cutting corners. It was just straight up like math. Like I was like, okay, we did this much in this time.

I think we'll do this much in this time. But also when the reason I like about the age thing was because 2025 doing roundhouse, I won't be old. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. But that's why I'm going to do. I'll do roundhouse now. Yeah. In 2025, I'll do an old person venue.

Yeah. That's what I mean. Like get to that level when I'm at old. Yeah. And then I'll be like, okay, well, this is this. Yeah. Now we pump the brakes. This is the level.

Because then we could do festivals and it's making, and we're making excellent. amount of money. But if we waited, if we waited to do roundhouse in 2025, yeah, then Brixton, I'm going to be in my 40s. No, you wouldn't. I'm 36, 2025, 37, 38, and we'll probably be bricks in two years. Oh, okay, yeah, okay. Yeah, it's you'll be, you would bid 40, yeah, okay. Give me it my 30s. Give me me my 30s. I mean, I hope so. Look, here's the thing, like, I think if we break 2000, it's a win. And I think we will. With all these people, listening to the podcast that they should come i hope yeah and and can i say some corny go it's from wrestling hit me wait 90s wrestling or now no it's it's recently so i won't know but come on

you fight for your dreams and sooner or later your dreams will fight for you what does it mean daniel brian what does it mean he said he just went out there and and and we're playing this amity affliction tour for 400 euros a night we're fucking you know confirming things out really far in advance and still not getting what are worth, but we're still going out there giving the best show we can. We're fighting. We're fighting for our dreams. And now they're starting to fight for us. And people are starting to show up for us. And it feels really good. And it's like what I've always wanted for us. You know what I mean? I'm having fun writing music and I'm having fun playing shows. We scaled it back a little bit. And the minute that we could become a headlining band,

like we can control our fate more, you know, because we don't have to go to someone else's schedule and that's what I want you know because then we can just do whatever we want we're not being pressured into something it's just like what do you what do you what do you free I'm free then you free neck drew you good all right let's do that then and I feel like you need to get to big headliner for that because otherwise it's like you need to pick a support and that's at the whim of whatever whatever they want so like even our end of year is not ideal for you with a child we're doing two tours back to fucking back yeah so so like even like like like another band I manage.

They, today, they're involved in other stuff too, but they're supporting. And we were told it was one time frame. And then out of nowhere, they'd go, oh, actually, it's this time frame. And it just goes, well, the other thing I was supposed to do

is not happening now. It's crazy. It sucks. You know, it's not their fault. It's like being on standby. Stand by for a flight, but it's correct. And they, they, they, you know, what are you going to do?

It's, it's the headliner gets to control. And honestly, we'll be in that position one day, where we have to move a date. I mean, there was supposed to be a different band on this tour coming up, but we were like, oh, we have to move the dates because we're doing this Silverstein tour now in the States. Again, we're supporting, so we have to go into their schedule.

So it's like we had to move the dates because it's our headliner, we can do what we want, and then one of the support bands that was supposed to be on it is, is off. So it is what it is. That happens the whole time. What else have you got to get into? Because we got, let's see what we got.

How much? 10 minutes. Legitimately 10 minutes? I can't believe it's 4.15. It's fast. This is what happens. This is why it's so easy. And you'll come away and go,

well, that was bad, but it's like, I thought it's 20 minutes. There was nugget, there's so much nuggets of wisdom. Yeah. I can't believe we blew it on the drink.

The color misled me, but I had a different drink, which was quite cool. Yeah, but the one that I thought was misleading, but good. I mean,

I was going to go into your fucking management career and all that stuff, but you can't cover it in 10 minutes. No, I mean, let's do this, let's end on a,

you've got two options. Yeah. You can end on Tom's advice for bands. Sure. Young bands that I like that. What's the second option?

Second option is a top five of my choosing because I've got rid of this dream festival section because I fucking hate it. Yeah, because you know what my name is rage, death to know, but also it's just like

no one gets the concept of it it should be a dream. The best one ever was Will Puckney, he did one. He was like, oh, the audience is dogs. And you know what I mean?

And it was fucking awesome and entertaining. And then other people are just like, oh, I guess. Oh, you're your top five would be Christopher Nolan movies. I could riddle that off really quick

because we could do both. But I would do interstellar, uh, prestige, Dark Night Rise. Prestige 2. Yeah. I watched it recently. It's so good.

You're right. No, no. Inception's low. Dark Night Rises. Above Inception. Get the fucking. Inception. And then, um,

probably dark night. Yeah. I can't believe that. too. I love that. I mean, I had this on Twitter because I feel like my top six of his movies are all number one and then I got less favorites. Wait, have you seen insomnia? No.

It's fucking amazing. I've never seen it. My cousin texted me back today because he's like, I'm seeing it. I'm like, let me know it. He's like, it's great. It's so awesome. I didn't even know it was a Nolan film. It's so like out there nothing like any of the others. But it's Pacino. and Robin Williams. Yeah, that's fucking crazy.

It's fucking sick. That's crazy. Gripping shit. Right, advice. At what point does a band need a manager? That's a good at question. Yeah. Man, you know, sometimes I feel like the manager knows.

So there's times where, man, so like Dying Wish, right? Like Dying Wish, I found they were opening regional shows on that counterpart store, the terrible counterpart store we did in 2019. The dip for both. us in the one that we did yeah they were they they opened like the first five shows and like man i'm watching them play and and i remember the moment i was at merch talking to mikey and they started playing and it was in seattle in el corzone and there's fucking 20 people and they're playing and i'm like how does no one know about this band like this band is so fucking sick and then i remember

they were working with someone at the time because i was like so what are you guys doing they're like oh we're working with blah blah i was like oh cool no problem because the biggest thing is you don't want to fucking come in there and steal bands or whatever. So I just bailed. So then a couple months passed, and I know the person that they were working with. And on shuffle, Enemies and Red came on in my car. And I was like, how am I not hearing about this band constantly? So anyway, I hit up, I was talking to my friend who they said they were working with. And I was like, are you doing any of this band? And they're like, ah, it didn't work out. I was like, oh, okay, cool. Hung up. Hit them up. Work together the next day. Right. And so like,

I knew that they were ready because I'm like, this band is so fucking good doing a style of music that hasn't been done in a while that no one is doing this good and I just wanted to give them opportunities. The biggest thing for like management to me is like I don't ever sell someone something that I don't fully believe in. Like I've never knew that something was a bad deal

and pushed it. You know what I mean? So like I'm always- Because you were getting more money from it or... Yeah, or just because I needed to like prove that I was working for this band. Like I remember, so we do the Devil Wears Prada tour. And so we did Europe together

and we hit it off with Prada immediately. amazing people. And they hit us up about, you know, the guy that manages Prada is Paul who own, one of the owners of the company I work for. And so he, I mean, he's like, I want Stray for this tour or whatever we're doing. I was like, I have your whole fucking lineup. I was like,

dying wish, stray and Prada. And then I had to get into it. I was like, here's why. Because like this band is, you know, they expand over metal, metalcore, hardcore. They have such unique draw. And like they appeal to so many people. They appeal to, you know, coat orange and hate breed fans and they appeal to Devil Wars

Prada and counterparts, like, whatever, right? And they, they ended up buying into it and then that tour is a great success, right? Um, you know, so like there's a lot. And man, unity, like, they, like, I was, they opened a show where I was leaving and I, and they started as I was leaving and I heard Jay. And I was just like, oh, I stopped in my tracks and watched this dude. And I was like, holy shit. I saw knocked loose open a mixtape festival in Long Island. They opened. No one fucking knew,

like 20 people, but I heard fucking Brian. And that stopped me in my tracks too. And I tried desperately to get that band right then and there. You know, saw them a bunch of times. And we're still, you know,

really close friends. And obviously they went on to smash it, but I knew it. You know what I mean? But as far as like when bands need a manager? Let me flip it then, because you're running at a time, but also you're basically saying the manager would approach the band when,

when the band is ready. so what is like what's the red flag for the band if a manager comes in if a manager comes in and says I want to manage your band like what's the red flag is there a red flag where they're like I'll take this amount or yeah I mean there's there's so there's I always go artist first like there's like I have my set

amount but like a lot of times that could be you know unique where it's like okay I won't take that because that means I'm taking more than you guys you know you mean like I don't like to take more than the fucking artist. They're the ones that are in the van. You know, that's a thing too. I always say to people, you never want to hire someone to coach your hockey team

that's never played hockey before. I think about this all the time with managers. It's important because now you have all these people that are working fucking desk job management shit that have never played a show, booked a show, put out a record, slept in a van, slept in a room full of rats. Had no days off.

No days off, missing funerals. I've missed the burial of three out of my four grandparents, you know, like missing birthdays. Like, you've not done that. So when you ask a band to do it, like, you need to know what that means. Yeah. And there's even times, like, I remember, like, there was a band that had all these tours lined up and we got an offer for another one.

I was like, we got this in. I was like, it's a lot of touring. You should really, like, reconsider this because, like, it's cool. But, like, I don't want you guys hating the band by the time the year's over. and they went to do it and they've battled through it but that last tour was hard you know

so oh man I wish we got into this earlier I feel like I got so much stuff I could say but I... How long is you cold? I don't know it's important

I got to do it but look I just think you know when the time's right you don't want someone that has never played hockey before to coach your hockey team you would never hire someone

that's never played hockey before that's great bit of advice. So don't fucking hire someone that's never done it before. And you're throwing everyone over the bus. No, I'm not because like, there's so many of them. Then, but no, but they don't have to play a show. So like, even Rich. So like Rich Fernandez, he's one of the owners of the, the company that I work for. I manage better lovers and counterparts with him, right? And Miss May I. We do that together. He's never been in a band. He's tour managed. He's sold merch. Like, he's, he ran a record label. Like, he's done it. There's ways to do it in different ways. Maybe he doesn't

get on stage and play, but he's on stage and he's setting up backlines, he's torment. Like, he's, like, that's just as important, you know. This is what we talked about when we were talking about it on Twitter and it was like, hire a manager who can set up a amp and head and guitar because then they have at least the knowledge of music required. They've done enough to get that set up. This happened last week. He was in Toronto and he went to go see better lovers.

and he called me on the way back and he's like, oh, I'm just sweating my ass off. I was like, because I helped them load the trailer. And I was like, what are you doing, bro? He goes, I just can't stand there and watch him do it. That's why, that's a good guy. That's a good manager. That's a fucking person who's done it.

But there are people that are like, you know, like, hey, like there was one where they're like, hey, I need help booking a COVID test. And then they sent them to just said, check Google. Go do it. They're asking for help. I'm asking you to manage the situation. There's so many times. where I just, like, I won't take no for an answer. I rarely tell my, my bands, no. I rarely tell

them. And I, there's a way to figure everything out. Even with you, when you lost these, these cameras, and you're like, ah, like this might be a watch. I was like, I said one way or another, if you want to, because there's a thing, I can't care more than you, but if you care to get it done, I'm going to help you get it done. And we would have had, we would have had all this stuff here. You know what I mean? Because like, I'm very, like, there was one time, and I'll even call them out for it, but it was counterparts in Australia. And they didn't have the power converters and I'm just getting hit up at 11 p.m. Brendan's being like, we're fucked.

Oh, we're so fucked. And I figured it out. I figured it out. Brendan's Tim Robinson now. I figured it out in 14 minutes. And then I even said it to him. I was like, you're going to have him there and they'll be there in 30 minutes. And he's like, oh, cool.

I was like, yo, you just said we were fucked 14 minutes ago and I figured it out. So at least give me a shot. And don't stress out. I just don't want him to stress out. You know what I mean? Because I just want you to sing. Because when he's just been able to sing and we've been taking less responsibilities from him, he's been better. And you know what?

Look at the band. The band from when we got until now, the band's killing it. You know, so just focus on, if you're going to get someone, I highly recommend it. There's a lot of great managers out there, but there's a lot of people that fucking they're just, there was one today. I won't even get into it, but there's just people

where I'm just like, are you fucking joking? How do these people get hired? Like, how do they get hired? So, but anyway. Well, I think you're a very good manager. Thank you, sir. We were very adamant that we were going to get this done when I was very defeatist. Because quite a lot of managing musicians is managing people who will just say this is fucked. Yeah.

Brendan, me. Yeah, you, you guys are, that's why you guys love each other. Yeah, very similar. You guys, you, that's why you're very similar. But that's why we need you. I know, and I love to be that rock for you guys, but it's like, you know, I just wish, like, like, even I say to Brandon now, like, he'll start to get there. And I'd be like, yo, like, when have me and Rich let you down?

And he goes, it's like, you're right, you haven't. I was like, cool. So we'll figure this out. And he's, so he's finally giving us the space. to just do our jobs that he pays us to do and make his life easier. So we've done that. And like, you know,

we've experienced a lot of ups and downs and it's been good. So I'm very thankful for what I got for sure. And that's why, you know, we want our band to be big now so it could be a little bit bigger and a little bit so that we could nurture these beautiful podcasts

and this management. I love my beautiful podcast. I love it too. Thanks for coming on my beautiful podcast. It goes quick, doesn't it? We could have done it two hours, but we had a cinematographer setting this scene up so look good.

have to do it again. He did a great job. We'll have to do it again. I'd love to. We could do this all, like, it's not going to roll. We could talk about something completely, we could talk about what's the craziest things in the world. This could be a lava, eyeballs, eyeballs, eyeballs, are fucking nuts. They're the craziest thing ever.

See what I'm saying? I'm trying to give you an out here and you keep getting into cool. Because I love this. We're hanging out in Nashville. We're supposed to hang out. I'm here all week. Just fucking come back. Yeah, I will at one point.

It'll be cool. Do it. I love you. I love you too. Bye. Bye. Goodbye. Thank you.