The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #103 Throwing Plates with Michael Jenkins

Episode Date: September 27, 2022

Chef Michael Jenkins shares the downsides of working a short staffed kitchen on Mother’s Day, what The Bear gets right and wrong about cooking, why it’s racist to dismiss American cuisine as not a real genre, competing in Chopped, and the most recent time he threw a plate.  You can watch full video of this episode HERE! Join the Patreon for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and MORE. Listen to our live weekly show on AMP, every Tuesday at 4 PM ET. Follow Michael Jenkins on Instagram Visit Michael's website for all the latest updates Follow Gianmarco Soresi on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, & YouTube Subscribe to Gianmarco Soresi's email & texting lists Check out Gianmarco Soresi's bi-monthly show in NYC Get tickets to see Gianmarco Soresi in a city near you Watch Gianmarco Soresi's special "Shelf Life" on Amazon Follow Russell Daniels on Twitter & Instagram E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Paige Asachika & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Spencer Sileo Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Part of the Authentic Podcast Network Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

welcome to the downside my name is jermarco serrazi i'm here with my co-host russell daniels russell a a very uh belated congratulations um the sketch you wrote for tiffany haddish and ari spears has been getting a lot of traction we're really proud of you good one russell uh uh for for those i'm sure you've seen it on my instagram uh or his instagram russell uh was was brought in last minute replacement yep uh because the cast member got covid you've been in the off off is it considered off-broadway it's off-broadway off-broadway well it's off-broadway it's a the off the the contract is off-broadway great tight is your thing recording yeah Yeah. Okay. Titanic. Titanic. At Improv Asylum. How are you feeling?

I'm feeling very tired. You went in. You got it. You were in a cabin. So I went away for Labor Day. I was in a cabin. With Douglas Goodhart. Our friend Douglas, who sometimes people are increasingly familiar with.

I know. And loving. I know. I'm like, oh, am I going to get ousted from it from it would be fitting you filled in for someone else he filled in for you um but yeah so I was with Douglas and a couple other friends and um and then um I woke up on Labor Day uh Labor Day Monday Labor Day hungover and um I had an email being like can you jump into Titanic this week um I knew you know I auditioned for it in the spring and I was like in the final running for it. But then I came back to New York that night, started rehearsals.

And two days later, I did the show for this whole weekend. I'm doing it this upcoming week. And you were prepping intense. I mean, it's a full musical. It was, and I hadn't done a musical in over 10 years so it's uh you know it's not a lot i don't have like big things my singing myself but it's a lot of like ensemble singing and whatnot and and moving while you sing and um uh yeah it was it was it was i've never had that experience it's kind of so that was part of the reasoning of

doing it was well this, this is going to be a fun story to be like, I just wanted to have that experience of like, you have two days. Sure. Learn the, learn a 90 minute musical in two days and then do it. And you stressed. Were you, I cried. I cried. I cried multiple times and I didn't think that I would be, I'm not one of those people

that like, I'm usually a busy person. I keep myself busy. I've never seen you cry. But I felt, i felt insane i i mean i still haven't gotten like a normal night's sleep i've i've because because we have these uncle function shows we have i have work i have now i'm doing titanic this week so i um but we basically i had to learn the whole show in one day the moving the singing and whatnot and then I was going to see the show that night. And I was like, so I learned it all. I was like, okay, well, there's two hours before the show starts.

So I'm going to rent a rehearsal room and go through everything I learned. And I just laid on the floor in the rehearsal room. And I was like, I don't remember what I did. So I'll just listen to the music and try, try to like follow along and try to blah, blah, blah. But that was overwhelming to me. Cause I was like doing it.

And I was like, Oh, I can't even get this first number. Right. Um, and so I was like getting really worked up and then I was like, Oh God, I have to go to the show and see it.

And so I went to the show and I was sitting there and it's like, you know, so it's a super campy, super gay, uh, musical, a lot of, but, but it's kind of like a cult like fan base is growing around it and people are like titanic but like it's a parody i guess of titanic where where uh celine dion is a character in the titanic and it's very

flamboyant yeah and there's and there's a big rupaul's drag race segment yeah and that your parents did not understand I'm sure no they didn't but you know people are excited so like it's a fun crowd people are so I'm in this crowd everyone's so excited they're drunk you know they're having fun and I'm in this crowd

waiting for the show to start and I am sitting there and I just I'm sitting there being like I don't know what the first thing is and i'm supposed to go on like the next day and i was like i don't even know what the first thing is what and i started crying i'm just like i've done i'm gonna i how am i gonna do this how am i gonna do this some gay guy sitting next to you like that's the game he's crying at the beginning of the titanic parody no I hadn't even started yet.

Like, Overture hadn't played yet. I was just, like, so nervous. Like, I don't know what even I would do first. I don't know where to enter from. I couldn't remember, and it was stressing me out. But it happened. You did a great job. And it went really well.

I saw the matinee. You had a real scene where you got to like do just fireworks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just your special. It's a fun like. You're screaming higher notes than anyone sung earlier in the show. The funniest part though, and it's the first time I've seen honestly you in, and luckily, I mean, it was comedic and like campy,

but there's a moment in the beginning where you were like sincere and you're acting and it's surreal to see a friend that you kindly, that you interact with comedically. And I made fun of you for today where you're on the side, like at the Titanic Museum. Is that where the scene starts? And you're just like kind of looking around

like an ensemble member, just like, well, you know, John Marco, I was in a musical. I was in a musical. I know. I was doing what they do in musicals. I was in a musical. I know. I was doing what they do in musicals. And it was real, but it's so surreal to see someone you're that close with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who would be normally making fun of this thing.

Yeah. Or just seeing it at all because you know the person. Yeah. So it was very funny, but you did phenomenally. Thank you for coming. Thank you for coming. I'm so happy I came. That was very kind of you to come and and support and uh yeah i'm having i'm having it's a it was

i will say this i i it was so busy last week and then this week um but well it was really cool to be like be able to just be in a rehearsal doing a show a live show and then when i wasn't there i was doing uncle function stuff and having fun with you guys. So it was like a nice week of like, oh, you know, like theater. Yeah. It was nice to have. I don't know if I'd like to do it all the time,

but it was like, I felt very like, it was nice. It felt healthy. We're here with our guest. Yeah. Michael Jenkins. Have you ever had anyone, in kitchens,

do they have someone, you know, opening of a restaurant, the so-and-so gets sick, so they need someone to fill in quick, like a sous chef? Yeah, I mean, it happens on a regular basis. Like, the problem with restaurants is that they're, like, ongoing. So, like, it's not like, oh, a run of show will be from this time to this time. It's, we're going to stay open until they shut us down. it's we're going to stay open until they shut us down um so like people will call out or be too hung over to work or cut themselves or burn themselves badly on a pretty regular basis so like i mean that's usually where the chef comes in and they have to do stuff if the chef's out

then they usually have an understudy which is the chef de cuisine or the sous chef that has to like step in and do their job or it's the type of place where like the chef's never there. So then if like the person that's actually in charge gets hurt, then they're like, hey, you need to leave the Hamptons and come help out at the restaurant. Well, to kick off our music, tell us something negative, something shitty, something you don't like, Michael. The worst thing about being a chef.

The worst thing about being a chef? I'd say, well, I don't know. The worst thing and the best thing are the same thing about being a chef. It's say well i don't know the worst thing and the best thing are the same thing about being a chef it's what i like about my medium of art that like um the single like if i take all my experience and all my pain and anguish and effort and training and creativity and pour it into a dish and it comes out perfectly it will quite literally turn into human shit within a matter of hours this is that's like a best case scenario is that like somebody eats it and you're like oh there's all of my work right

there it's the single greatest you're listening to the downside it's like can you imagine picasso marco serresi best case scenario i see that thing floating in a toilet later. Yeah. By the way, are your headphones working? Am I screaming? Did you just hear the music I played? No. Oh, my God. I was like, that is really impressive that you can carry a conversation while music is playing. Oh, my God. They're not plugged in.

Oh, my God. That is so funny. You know, these aren't more helpful. This is like being on a helicopter helicopter except I can't hear anything. I'm going to recreate what just happened. You weren't loud. You were a totally normal voice, but what happened

is he played the theme song music and you kept talking because you didn't know the song music was playing. What happened last night at the comedy club? What happened last night at the comedy club? I was working on this audition where i was basically talking to an audience member and one of the audience members was saying to me how dare you tell a joke you're listening to the downside and that's and i was like well then fuck you and fuck your mother and fuck your whole family i really

kept thinking that he would like wrap it up no some point. I was so funny. I was like, wow, that's impressive that he's just like, no, fuck that theme music. I'm going to tell the whole fucking story. I'm plowing through it. This is my moment. Because you said it'll turn to like human shit.

I was like, boom! Well, we're going to talk all about you in a second. I'm very very excited thank you for being here uh i did want to share one story i uh and it's so i i i'm an actor i used to be an actor somewhat i read this yeah what'd you say i read that online you've read thank you very thank you i saw i had a google search today uh i had a scene uh it was for a movie i was submitting an audition for where i play a stand-up comedian. It's happened once or twice.

And you're like, if I can't get this, if I can't get this. And it was basically, I was on stage and I do crowd work and I'm like, something about, any couples here tonight? Ooh, you two, are you a couple? No. Who thinks they're just friends? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you know what would be cool? I'll show them. This is how I'll beat the actors auditioning is I will record it in a comedy club on stage with real people. The problem is

I'm talking to these empty chairs and I'm asking them rhetorical questions. And so I had to tell the audience, hey guys, and I'm doing this at a club that I have no respect for. So that's how I'm able to do it. Say, hey, I'm auditioning for a movie. Everyone just be normal. Just be normal. Laugh, clap, raise your hand if I say so. But I'm going to talk to these chairs and then just don't be weird.

Know that I know I'm not talking to anybody. So the first time I do it, it's going well. I have to open with a joke like of my own making and of course the audience now that they know they're acting they don't laugh at all it's just to watch everyone suddenly become the worst actors in the world so I'm like guys I'm gonna do it again joke laugh

so I do it and then it's going well I'm doing the lines oh are you two a couple oh is this just a first date or something and this woman on the side goes who the fuck is he talking to and i was like okay fine so then the next night i i had new audience i tell the audience what had happened the night before and i say someone interrupted it just don't do that just just i know i'm talking to nobody. So I do it again. Go, are you two, you two dating?

And the, the couple behind the empty chairs that I'm speaking to thinks that I'm talking to them. So they go, yes, yes, we're dating. And I try to bear forward because it's my last time I can do this. So I'm like, are you two more than friends? They're like, no, we're not friends. We're dating. We just said we're dating.

And they're like, they keep talking and I have to cut it and go like guys what the fuck and i made the whole audience i said we're gonna go back from the top we're doing a second take and you're all gonna pretend that you're real again who's filming this i just put it's my phone in the thing hanging in the back yeah so i think i got it wow but uh it's just. So is that your like your whole spot that night was filming an audition? Yeah, basically. I mean, truly. People don't want to cooperate. They don't.

It's universal. The moment they think, have you acted ever? Do they like, oh, we need a real chef for this movie? Not since I was the king in The King and I in fifth grade. How'd you do? I think I nailed it. They didn't ask me back, though. Sure, sure. Fifth grade? Sixth you do? I think I nailed it. They didn't ask me back though. Sure, sure. Fifth grade? Sixth grade?

Yeah, in sixth grade I didn't make, I think I was a tree. Oh, God. My fifth grade, I think it was a Roman play. I forget what it was called. Do you remember that age, what play you did? The first play I did, it was in sixth grade. It was called The Best Christmas Pageant Ever. And I was like the sun. I thought it was weird you included

it as one of your credits in the playbill for titanic yeah yeah it's been a while yeah um so so michael we met your friends with lindsey my friend lindsey yes i am yes and uh uh she said come to this restaurant we know the guy he'll make it special and you did that's you did it was a big fucking meal it was a gigantic meal um a titanic meal yeah now you are the head what's the title head chef so i the official title that my business cards used to say was chef the cuisine um the executive chef is uh a celebrity chef that spends a lot of time filming for Food Network. She tells me, just tell people you're the fucking chef. Just stop with the games.

Just say you're the chef. But like, if things don't go well, I still want to say she's the chef. You know what I mean? Sure. I'm like, oh, listen, I'm just the sous chef. She created the menu. Originally. Originally. The menu has changed

continually we're very good friends we talk all the time uh so we brainstorm on menu ideas sometimes i'll take her thoughts and put it into like actual food sometimes sometimes like i don't consult her at all uh it's a really i mean it's a 20-year relationship. Sure. Yeah. Now, you gave us a lot of free shit. Yeah, that was, whatever you ate was coming from whatever was in my brain that day. I think that you probably ate a couple things that were on the menu, but like, when people come in that I know, that's when I'll just fuck with you. Sure. But I imagine everyone who meets you, I said to Russell, in fact, I said, be nice because you and your wife can go to butter.

Maybe you'll get some bonuses. But I'm sure that everyone who meets you and finds that you work at a restaurant thinks they're going to get the treatment. Yeah. And do you have anyone who's like, they're clearly, they were expecting a little extra. Oh, yeah. Do you, do you, does someone ever, they'd say something rude to you, like cut off the extra ones. Like oh yeah do you do you uh uh does someone ever they'd say something rude so you're like cut off the extra ones like how do you decide you can't just be giving it to everybody i mean i mean there are there are two two ways that that tends to go down

so like i've definitely had people say oh it's my um it's my boyfriend's birthday and we're like neat and then we wait for the dessert order we're like hey don't forget to put a free candle in that dessert before it gets to the table and make sure you put it in seat two so that they know that we know that we were listening yeah and they're like oh it just says happy birthday and we're like yeah because it's your birthday yeah and that's it and they're like well you know at bennegan's they give us a free dessert. And I'm like, oh, well, this is Manhattan. Yeah. So that happens.

But then there's also like we'll have celebrity chefs come in. And again, I work with a celebrity chef. So I'm accustomed to her. Like, I know how much they make. I'm not going to send you anything for free unless you, you know, unless we're really close, I guess. So I've definitely had a celebrity chef come in and be like, you know, when the server says, hi, do you guys have any food allergies? Like, please, no extras. And they're like, no, we ask everybody.

We're not sending you anything extra. We know your net worth. And the celebrity chefs, they're just coming there to eat. They hear it's a good restaurant. Yeah, they're coming there to eat or just because they're in that neighborhood and to support, I suppose. And that's awesome. But I learned a long time ago, like, don't send them anything they they get sent stuff everywhere that they go so they won't get it from me sure yeah sure who's who's your who's your uh most favorite celebrity show i mean how

do you feel of all time yeah dead live in between michael pierre wade is is way up there he's a rock star uh in terms of celebrity that are on TV, like I don't like, that's a different category. I always tell. So again, my, my celebrity chef is an iron chef,

Alex Marino Shelly. I tell her on a regular basis, my favorite iron chefs, Morimoto. That guy's amazing. Uh, you guys know Morimoto? Yeah.

Okay. Morimoto is amazing. Do you watch a lot of food, food network? No, but I, uh, my, you know, I, I like know the name from, You guys know Morimoto? Morimoto's amazing. Do you watch a lot of Food Network? No, but I know the name from my wife's dad, my father-in-law. It's a good name, Morimoto. But you've eaten his food.

Yeah. That's amongst celebrities. In terms of chefs, then it's a list of some actor and they start naming these dead actors you've never fucking heard of but like for me it's like aunt sophie peak and you know uh mark vetri here in the states and uh you know paul boku and you know there's there's so many hercules uh there are a lot of slave chefs i'm a big fan of what was that much about them people that were in my mind chefs but at the time they were called slaves um for instance thomas jefferson and uh what's the other guy george

washington they had um people that made them food uh-huh so but they were slaves would their recipes have been like passed out like yeah have you ever heard. Have you ever had macaroni and cheese? Sure. Oh, my God. Yeah, so that would be one of them. And how were the records kept? Were they found as cookbooks? Well, that's the thing.

It was like Hercules was known to have only had a couple recipes, credit to his name, but Martha Washington had a whole Rolodex of hundreds of recipes. And you're like, Martha, were you in the kitchen cooking with the slaves? Sure. Were you? That was you. You were making that cornbread. That's your cornbread. You added you in the kitchen cooking with the slaves? Sure. That was you. You were making that cornbread.

That's your cornbread. You added all those herbs and spices to the chicken. All right, Martha. And when you see those recipes, is it, do you admire it just because they created the meal? Because you have to think about the time and the place and what they had and what they made. And that's amazing.

Like that's, like that's you know to have so very very little i mean you they had great resources as compared to anybody of their ilk um because they had a president that was like go to france learn some things come back and they're like oh i have this cool pasta thing that you like bake in the oven with cheese and it's like good and he's like great serve it to my guest and they did and they're like oh my god this is amazing because it's still amazing mac and cheese is still really good so mac and cheese i did not know are there cookbooks like i think there'll be a tough sell a slave cookbook there's um there's a book called um the president's kitchen cabinet um and it talks about all the different black people that have been in presidential kitchens since George Washington.

I'm so embarrassed that I can't remember. I'm picturing the author's face. I was on a panel with him. He does a lot of that. He's a food historian. So there are plenty of food historians that have tracked these sorts of things. that have tracked these sorts of things um and then there's that new netflix show that uh is based on dr jessica harris's book um uh from the the high on the hog which is based on her book high on the hog and that uh talks about like the entire history of like how food made its way from

western africa to the u.s and how our food culture came from uh you know, slaves. So mac and cheese, any other classic foods? Peanut butter. A lot of people know that because of George Washington Carver. Yeah. What's another good one? I mean, pretty much any Southern dish that you've ever thought of. Succotash is a cool one because that's a combination of Native Americans and, like, you know, Gullah ex-slaves.

Sure. They're like, oh, white people fucked you over? Oh, my God, same as meslaves sure like talk they're like oh white people fucked you over oh my god same as me yeah what's that no it's corn they're like what's that oh you do beans and tomatoes and they like put it together now we have succotash it's definitely tough to if that's like what's your favorite kind of food slave food slave food i have the i have the servers telling the guests now uh because i was serving a lot of italian and french and like since the pandemic i've started serving like much more like american and people are like well that's not a real thing and i'm like well it's fucking racist um so it is

a thing so the people thinking that american food is not a genre what do you say genre yeah correct yeah that's racist to you. Big time. Explain it how. Because a lot of American cuisine is based on African-American cuisine. Interesting. Because that was who was doing a lot of the cooking in the house. It's like comfort. It's very lowbrow. It's not associated with high end.

Correct. But if you think about the most famous French dishes, it was peasant food. It's the same. high end. Correct. Yeah. But if you think about the most famous, uh, French dishes,

it's the same. It was peasant food. It's the same. Yeah. It's cassoulet and beef bourguignon, you know, uh, uh,

what's it called? Coco van, which is like using an old hen from the yard, not like the King's food. Um, but that's, I mean, that's humanity,

but I tell the, uh, sir, the guests, the servers be clear that the guests, like if they don't like the, uh, braised collard greens,

you can just tell them they're racist. Uh, and then they'll have to leave a tip, you know, be clear to the guests. If they don't like the braised collard greens, you can just tell them they're racist. And then they'll have to leave a tip. It's a great move. Sure, sure. The downside, right? This is the downside. Yeah, yeah. So, you

grew up, where were you born? You were born in? I was born in Philadelphia. But you grew up in Oklahoma? I grew up in Oklahoma. When did you move to Oklahoma? Kindergarten. How long were you in Oklahoma was born in philadelphia but you grew up in oklahoma i grew up in oklahoma when did you move to oklahoma kindergarten kindergarten how long were you in oklahoma for till senior year wow did you and then a year when i like fucked up in college and i had to come back yeah so talk about college because you you left college yeah i dropped out of college and where were you going to college um i went to depaul university in indiana that's a good university right yeah it's good small private liberal arts school and what happened were you majoring it oh i didn't get that far i think i think kinesiology because i was like no i like sports sure yeah sure and they're like great i was like can i turn that

into like a major or like is there a major you like watch football and basketball um i should have gone into journalism that's what that is i see then i would have been able to watch sports but i'd have to write a lot um so yeah kinesiology was like my major um i had a lot of fun like a lot of fun um and there's like some destruction of like property there's some like issues with my uh my ra um and they eventually asked me not to come back the following semester really yeah how how forcefully i said hey they sent me a letter that was like you're not coming back next semester wow and then i was like oh fine whatever fuck it i'll go to ou like it's university oklahoma i love the football team yeah and it's like not like you know not no offense to anybody that

graduated from university oklahoma it's a very good school. My mom worked on the health sciences campus, et cetera, et cetera. But like, it's a fucking state school. And I was like, oh, I'll go here now. And they're like, no, you're on academic and social probation from an accredited university. You can't just attend school here. How pissed were your parents? Pretty mad. Yeah?

Yeah. So, what, were you drinking too much? Or were you just a party guy i was drinking a lot a whole lot it was mostly the drinking um so i became a chef um so i could continue with what my major had been now were you cooking as a kid were you always into cooking my mom says that i learned how to cook out of self-defense because i was i was in a single parent house and so my like food was there always it wasn't like i was like oh well you know my mom worked six jobs and like peanut butter crackers was a mighty fine meal like no like we had like it was fine but like

my mom didn't cook it's not a thing that she's into she was like no that's just making a mess um so like cooking would be like microwaving the ragu so that it's warm and then putting it over the boiled pasta and then shaking the cheese out of the green cylinder that's what i did for lunch yeah so that's uh not my favorite meal uh-huh uh-huh um so i started cooking a lot for myself i also love sports and like started learning about nutrition it was like oh i'll get into nutrition and food. You know, cooking.

Were you just getting cookbooks out? Cause this was pre YouTube. Yeah. So my mom would, she would work from like seven in the morning until like eight or nine at night. So she would pay somebody to pick me up from school and drop me off the library,

which was excruciating for a little boy. I was so angry about it and there was nothing to do there, but fucking read. Yeah. Which isating for a little boy. I was so angry about it and there was nothing to do there, but fucking read, which is horrible for a little boy. Um, but like I eventually started like finding things that I was interested in and I learned about nutrition and, and then eventually I like sports and then I combined the sports and nutrition.

And then when I dropped out of school, I was like, Oh, I'm going to go to culinary school and learn how to make healthy food, but like really delicious, food and that's where I discovered uh duck fat and butter foie gras and like were you talented when you were like in in high school like did you have a cooking lady over and like make a meal and like oh yeah I think I tried I was not very good though I was like the fanciest thing you made more than probably most yeah I mean again this is oklahoma so like everybody thought i was weird like they're like yeah he ordered the

chicken panini i don't even know what that is oh my god do you remember do you remember like in like the 80s 90s like sushi was it was it was like labeled as like rich people like it was like associated with like that person's great like like they're really frou-frou liberal. There was a thing about you're really elite or weird or uptight. Especially when you grew up in uptown New York. I'm sure it was very like...

I grew up in a deep red state. I'd never had sushi until... Probably... Definitely never growing up. Maybe probably like 10 years ago first time i had really wow yeah i grew up with sushi we had a pretty first i had a lot of filipino uh nannies there's a big filipino community so like i i had like for a jew i had a lot of rice growing up a lot more rice than lakas yeah and then i was so into anime and manga

that i would go to get my Japanese Pokemon cards. Like I would get the, you know, in advance before they were translated. And so we would go to the Japanese market. So I was eating seaweed. I was eating sushi. I had a kind of little bit of multicultural. But in terms of cooking, I mean, fanciest meal. I mean, fanciest meal.

If you're treating Nicole for the first time in your marriage, what's the meal you're going to make now? Well, I learned how to, I have a homemade pasta maker now. Nice. And I, within the last year, I make pasta all the time now. Really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love doing it. It's therapeutic. It's very therapeutic. And I, I never, I, it did inspire me to start doing other things too, because I was like, I've never,

I've never just never had done anything like that. And then we went to a friend's house and she was making it. And we, we kind of, I was like, Oh, can I help? And like,

and then that night I bought, I bought a pasta maker and I love doing it now. In the pandemic, there was a moment in the beginning of the pandemic where I said, okay, here we go. I'm going to learn how to cook. Oh, God. Oh, yeah, you did try it for a bit. You ate some sourdough bread? No, I didn't do the sourdough bread.

That seemed like advanced. I made like lasagna. I made chili. I was happy about the chili. And then the best thing I made was fish with ratatouille. And that was good. And that was like the last thing. Now it's just omelets.

I can't. It's not in me. The waiting. Especially because I had an electric stove and now it's fire here. And I had to take out the smoke detector because I kept setting it off. First thing I do in every apartment. Really? Yeah, disconnect the smoke detector.

My landlord, not my landlord, someone saw it, and they were like, where's your smoke detector? And I was like, oh, I'm getting batteries right now. You have to, right? They're super sensitive. They're super sensitive. And in order to properly sear something, we just don't have the ventilation in most apartments in New York City.

Sure. So it's just like if I'm actually searing something like our i just open the windows and i turn on the vent but like in a pro kitchen like you can cut onions you don't cry uh-huh because like the suction is so much people fart on the line all the time you don't even know the little known fact about restaurants the cooks are all farting are you if there was a fire are you like kind of like you know what to do that's the thing i in my apartment it's not that big i'm pretty sure i'd know and if it's like i mean so big like i mean we're either gonna die or not like it's not like i don't have like a a sprawling estate it's a two-bedroom apartment he's like where's your smoke detector we're either gonna die or we're not you know it's two options yeah we can't sue you for dead yeah so you drop out of school your mom's pissed oh yeah

first um especially for like black folks like my mom my mom was a doctor my dad's a lawyer my granddad was a surgeon his wife was a doctor like back when they didn't even want them to go to medical school and then like before, they were still like educated. And I was like, I think I'm going to drop out. Did they, did they lay that part on you when you were like going to drop out where they like you are? They didn't have to. That was like, it was a little, you, you understand guilt.

Um, it was, it was just there. Like always is you stand on the shoulders of your ancestors. And I was like, cool. You have allowed me to not have to do this shit. Congratulations. You've made it. I'm like all the yuppies that are like, no, I don't want to.

I'm just going to live in Brooklyn. That's part of it. It's like you succeeded so much now, now like a white failure dropping out of college. Now you made it. Yeah. That's the level of making it. We made it.

That's the thing. If my dad said to me, you're standing on the shoulders of your ancestors, I would laugh on his face. Yeah. I would like, you didn't even talk to your dad. Yeah. So you dropped out.

Were you freaking out or were you like, I mean. Oh, well, you know, I got like a little depressed because I had to go to community college in Oklahoma City, which community college out here really isn't bad. Um, in New York, it's not like in Oklahoma city. Like I was taking in high school, I was taking classes at that community college and I was like, these professors are fucking dumb.

Yeah. Um, so I actually had to like enroll and that's what, that's when I went through my like massive drug phase. Cause I was like, I don't need to be sober for these classes. Um, what drugs,

any, any favorite? Oh, Molly was fun because this is like, I don't need to be sober for these classes. What drugs? Any favorite? Molly was fun because this is like 2000. You were taking Molly and then going to class? No, just like in general. Class was a couple hours out of my day. Okay. No, I'd smoke weed in the parking lot.

Oh, got it. And then go to class. And I remember one of the professors talking about like, oh, you don't need toothpaste. It's mostly sugar. And I And like, I remember like one of the professors talking about like, oh, you don't need toothpaste. It's mostly sugar. And I was like, that's that. I'm sorry. You can't tell these dumb kids that.

That's not true. There's sodium fluoride. You don't need toothpaste. Please don't tell them that. Like, you may as well be brushing your teeth at the candy bar. And I was like, Yosemite Sam, stop. Like, like they believe you. You're like the Goodwill hunting for nutrition.

believe you you're like the goodwill hunting for nutrition um so yeah that community college was a little depressing because there's like you know special needs kids in my class uh-huh and i was like i am with the people currently and this is where you are in life michael there's people in that class that still to this day quote that professor that you don't need toothpaste like washing brushing your teeth with a candy bar like you know like there's one thing there's definitely two people in that class that that's what they took away from that class they don't remember anything they learned in that class but they remember that they don't have to brush their teeth to be fair i'm one of those two people like that's all i remember from that class yeah and i remember thinking like oh because i guess like well if the meth's gonna take out the rest of the teeth, then what's it matter?

That's so funny. There's so many things about in school all the way through where I don't remember anything that we covered. But I remember like the teacher doing one thing one time that was weird. Like I remember one time a sixth grade history teacher told me, told us like first day of school, told us like what he liked as Christmas gifts. And he was like, don't get me aftershave. I don't use it. And I remember thinking like,

this is so presumptuous. I would never get you a present. Like class was this, it was like a history. It was like a sixth grade history class. And it was my first day of school at this new school. And I remember thinking like, this is insane.

Like why are we, we're talking about Christmas. It's September. Like it was just like the craziest thing to do to to be like to presume that we were all gonna be getting him gifts for christmas and he like he would that it's been that much of a problem that he's been gifted so many things he didn't like he's got three floors filled with aftershave like guys i don't like that i just just was like, and I never heard anything. What happened to an apple?

Not that I was doing apple. It was just bizarre. I do not think I ever got my teacher's gifts. What are we, you know? It was a private school. They were doing okay. Yeah. I bet you they weren't doing okay. Probably not. I had a teacher. Sometimes private schools get paid less than

public school teachers because they don't have to have all the things they don't have to be accredited they can just be people who I made one of the this is not a proud moment but I had a Latin teacher, I hated Latin you made her cry

no I didn't make her cry but could have come close they were throwing a party end of the year party or whatever and she was telling us to bring pizza and bring like all the things she wanted us to bring and i think i made some comment like i feel like the school should pay for that or whatever and she was like they don't give us anything it's coming out of our money and that's what i kind of learned like oh but also you're not doing well then you can't have the party it's also weird to put it on me yeah you're like oh i'm 13 why do i have to pay for this why would i be paying for this party

i agree no home to the parents being like the school's not paying for i like it like it's very weird like to expect anything you know like i was a terrible like not a terrible student i was a terrible student isn't like i would not want me as a student like i was not pleasant because i didn't want to be there yeah yeah but i definitely i like yeah similar i had interactions with the teachers i had one teacher that had to apologize to me in a way that i thought was super like because i what happened i was talking during class and uh my buddy was talking too and she stopped him and was like hey you need to you need to stop talking during class i was like yeah you need to stop talking during class and she goes well that's the pot calling the kettle black and i was like why is it a black thing and she goes and then later i got called to the office

i was like oh shit i'm in trouble and they're like um mrs rice has something to say to you and she's like michael i just like to apologize and i was like oh my god you guys are so dumb i oh you guys are so dumb but i love how sensitive you're being but i was being a shitty kid yeah that's that's hilarious the black i was like no i understand the teacher what year was this i love imagining 98 i love early to feel that early that's very early. In Oklahoma, in America. She probably read a book about how to have a black student in class. Oh my God.

I love imagining her changing the name of the phrase. Like that's like for the future. That's like a sterling silver pan. Something silver, whatever pot you're using. Like she's just off white. I, I remember that we had a class. There was some assembly.

Something had happened at my school. I'm not sure what. But the Latin teacher went up and quoted some old Latin phrase where they were saying like, you know, about like, I will not let my soul be black from the plague, blah, blah, blah. But it was old language where the way that they used the color system, it was white and black in terms of their soul. And then a teacher who was a very progressive kind of black teacher stood up and he said,

My soul is black and I am proud. And I was even at that age where I was like, because it's not like this Latin teacher was in a position of power so it was just like it was just a brutal shaming she was just quoting Aristotle

who didn't know any black people I mean I don't know if that's true I don't know his history but neither do you you just know about the fucking aftershave he knew whether black people existed but it was it was just one of those things

where yeah the color scheme back then it causes some problems now for sure man i can't believe you had a latin teacher yeah that's which was i was failing at a friend i have hair it's horrible uh vocab retention i was it was the only thing i was doing like bad yeah yeah well i it doesn't i mean it's crazy to teach that so useless they they taught latin at the school that i was supposed to go to.

I switched schools between sixth and seventh grade. But they taught, they made you take Latin so that you'd do better on the SAT verbal. Because if you didn't know what the word was, you could guess. They said, and like it maybe helped you with kind of with two words. I mean, that was their line. That was their line to stay and exist. It helped with SAT. I used to have a joke.

It never did well, but I said, I took Latin. So when someone says quid pro quo i know that's latin and that's it that's all i remember it's a good joke fuck you and i nodded yeah i didn't i didn't say boo this episode is brought to you by dyson on track dyson on track headphones offer best in class Boo! Change of colors and finishes. Dyson OnTrack. Headphones remastered. Buy from DysonCanada.ca. With ANC on, performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage. Accessories sold separately. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic.

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Download Bumble and try it for yourself. So, okay. So you're in this community college. Your life's a mess. Molly, drugs. So you're in this community college, your life's a mess, Molly, drugs, but you're kind of into nutrition. You're into cooking. Oh, yeah.

At that point, I was still like, I'm going to work out and I'm going to get back into sports. That's what I'm going to do. Yeah. I didn't do that. What happened? The big leap happened when I left the country,

spent a semester abroad in South America. Just part of the college or just on your own uh it was on my own uh it was an it was an outbound course you remember those but this one was like an entire semester it's an outdoor leadership school that's meant to like create character but it was created by hippies okay so not too expensive my mom paid for it that's nice yeah uh i think she also was like yeah get your life together that sounds like a good idea yeah and so i went super duper sober like very sober before you went there no while i was there while you were there all we did was hike like from ocean to ocean and we rock climbed and we like did uh whitewater kayaking and stuff and like very very outdoorsy stuff very clean living i was very mean that's what i learned about myself so like we did

at one point like the very first activity was we hiked like so many kilometers literally this is in costa rica from the uh pacific ocean we picked up some sand like on the beach and then hiked to the atlantic ocean and then like picked up some more like on the beach and then hiked to the atlantic ocean and then like picked up some more sand and like put them together for some reason i don't know again it was run by hippies um and then so like it's me and 16 strangers hiking across a foreign country through the jungle for and it was like a two-week hike and you you bring a backpack and like a tarp and like everything has to be biodegradable. So no soap, no deodorant. You wash yourself in a river and use leaves to wipe your ass.

Oh, that's the brutal. So I was appointed the poop shovel, which was... For everyone? Yeah. Because they said, who wants to carry this it's a big responsibility because it's heavy and you have to carry it everywhere oh but you're not digging the holes forever no they just if you have to i thought you have to come i thought you had to go and dig the hole for everyone's poop thing i was like that's that should not that

would i would call racism on that yeah um no just if it like you know it would get to the point where i was like sarah you have to poop again i've given you the shovel four times this morning people have to go and ask for the shovel because i'm the one like walking through the jungle with it you know i do not like that at all yeah i know it should just be like every every couple hours you put the shovel down and go all right we're all just gonna like turn our backs taking a break someone needs to use it just put it back when you're done with it also everyone's then touching that shovel that's correct i like for me they'd be like where did all the leaves on the trees go and i go guys okay i have a hairy ass uh so then after we do this two-week hike with strangers and all the circumstance they brought us into a room we finally got to shower and

everything they bring us into a room afterwards and there's a circle of folding chairs with one circle in the middle and one by one you had to sit in the circle and let each of the other people that just hiked with you and just met you give you constructive criticism about you as a human you're so funny is that we kind of do this stuff at acting school yes it's very interesting how like other people you just have to do it it's just something you have to do and you either do it at acting school in an air conditioned room or with folding chairs in the middle of the jungle and what did they

say to you I could use that now I feel like I could use it now at the same time they didn't tell me anything I didn't know they're like you know it seems that when you get stressed out you purposely say things that are hurtful to other people and i was like is that because you're a fucking cunt cheryl

were you allowed to talk back during the day you're supposed to say thank you or nothing at all oh so it's just but i still didn't say i couldn't stare so i was like go ahead all right what do you have to say oh that's that and again like i was like shredded because i wasn't i wasn't drinking i wasn't smoking anything i wasn't sniffing anything i was eating very like fruits and berries and stuff and like i didn't even masturbate the entire time just i wanted to push myself uh for three months god damn wow yeah i've become a bit of an asshole too yeah i was a little rough for three months. God damn. Wow. Yeah, I'd become a bit of an asshole too. I was a little rough.

But I was like super, super sober. Is it one person saying everything or everyone's going around? Each person, one at a time. Oh, I would be so bad at doing that to people. You couldn't be honest. No, I don't think I could. That's probably the worst thing about me. What would you have said?

You'd be like, oh, you're great. I don't know you, but I think I would... What would you say to him after? I'm too much of a people pleaser to, which is a problem for me, to probably do the exercise in the right way. You know what I mean? Yeah. I also feel like it's not necessarily useful if people have known you for a very long time.

No. There's so many ulterior motives. Yeah. But if I was talking to a stranger that I've known for a week and like a very like we had to do a lot of tasks, I feel like I could be like, just so you know. And I don't need to deal with this ever again. But you suck. You suck. You shame me when I asked for the poop shovel for the third time that day.

I've been eating berries. Give me a break yeah that's what it was yeah we did it in college we did something like that junior year of college so it was like a blood fest of like well Connor finally we meet and I get to tell you you're a piece of shit you're a clinical narcissist i think yeah you said that to someone i'm not sure i probably wasn't too mean but there was a couple people that like it shook the class up for sure i mean three years is enough time you oh my god i can't imagine you dealing with that well people telling no one said anything bad to me oh so okay so you do this program you're i mean you're

it was it was in the middle of the jungle that i was like you know what i think i want to be a chef really it's the only thing i enjoy doing and then i was reading uh uh anthony ordain's book too oh ah like sitting in the woods reading the book and i was like i could be captain of this pirate ship that's something i could do did you know that you had the skill like did you feel like you know what i'm really good at this no i thought you know i knew i had willpower i knew that like i could do stuff because like again like i just hiked from one side to the other and i was like carrying all the stuff um and like you know i'd done like through sports and like all these things. I had done very difficult things.

Yeah. Physically, mentally taxing things. And I was like, I think I can do this. And I had met other cooks and chefs in the past. And I was like, those guys are fucking morons. Sure. Like I should be at least able to like practice really hard and maybe be serviceable. Did you like food? Oh, yeah.

I loved eating. You loved eating. I was also a wrestler in high school. So I did a lot of like oh yeah i loved eating you loved eating i was i was also a wrestler in high school so i did a lot of like weight dropping and like i vividly remember just like staring at emerald legassi making like super bowl uh uh tailgating food and just like in my trash bag after like an eight mile run and just like drooling on myself and i was like oh if i you know there's there'd be no war in the planet if everybody just got fed. All my dark thoughts come from not having good food. Yeah.

Do you have, what would be the term, an articulate taste? Like, can you articulate what I am tasting? Yeah. Like, or do you think like your taste buds are more sophisticated than the average person? Because I feel like my girlfriend's picky. Picky. And I don't know if I'm like, I just don't care. I'm just, it all tastes good to me.

But I'll eat something that someone will call, this is not very good. I'm like, tastes good to me. It's probably just the not caring factor. One of the things that they tell you when you graduate from culinary school is like, hey, just slow down and taste. And what they mean is like, think about what it is that you're tasting. Because like, we're the same. Like, I have an educated palate.

I'd say that. Sure. I have an educated palate. So like, when somebody says like, this is too, it was too, I don't know. And I was like, sour, tart, acidic. Is that what you're going for? Because that's what it is. That's probably what you have a problem with.

You cunt. Exactly. Exactly. Well, that's what I'm thinking. And I'm like, would you like something else? Okay, let's get you something else. Maybe you want a grilled cheese sandwich. That'd be good for you.

Yes, it would. That's what I always think about when you ever see the show Below Deck, because they have a chef on there. And these rich people will come on who like have the worst taste and things most chefs must see this all the time that they are they're like think that they're asking for like good things but they have they have no idea like actual good things well rich people probably eat so much nice food they think that qualifies them to understand that they actually have really bad,

like, like they're, it's just like they, what they want is grilled. They, they want like that, but they don't know. If there's anything I've learned in the Hamptons with private chefing,

it's definitely like, you're going to crush with a good burger and hot dogs. That's what they actually want to eat. And it's not that much different in the restaurant. Most people want meat and potatoes like across the board. When I've been cooking the Bahamas at like members only resorts or if i'm in midtown manhattan or if i'm if you're dealing with a bunch of like like rich you know white dudes like they just kind of want meat and potatoes yeah um and it's really like more the younger like brooklynites that are like

yeah but like is this like a sustainable like local uh boysenberry or is this actually just a huckleberry yeah because tell you the truth they look like blueberries like that's you know what i mean like that's who you're gonna have to deal with but like i'll still like depending on what the deal is like i'm like yeah it's good um yeah i'm not necessarily always like in student student level focus yeah on what it is that i'm eating um but like it definitely depends on how much i'm paying let me ask as a as a tangential so my girlfriend has the cilantro allergy yeah it tastes like soap in her mouth my my fiancee same thing Wow. So I'd never heard of this. And she's Filipino, so I know about the Filipino nanny cooking.

Mine's Jewish. And it is very challenging because this interaction happens first. She won't say that she's allergic because she says when she does, it causes chaos in the kitchen. Because then they're going to worry about dried coriander seeds. chaos the kitchen there's all they're gonna worry about dried coriander seeds and but the things that she deals with with this that i've now witnessed fully here are the couple scenarios that happen uh one they they say it doesn't uh she does like a cute check-in it comes back she tastes it she can taste it like that and she says it does and they challenge her they say it doesn't and then eventually they go back to the kitchen.

They find out it does. We just had another meal recently. We got the soup. There was cilantro all on the top. She had asked for no cilantro. They said, don't worry, no cilantro. So she said, oh, can we take this? So they go back.

They skim it from the top of the soup. There's still cilantro in it. So then they bring it back. And then she tastes it. There's still cilantro. And they go, oh, okay, we'll make a new bowl. And then it comes back. And then there's an egg dish at the bottom with some cilantro in it.

She can't eat it. And I watch her when she's taking a bite of like a new dish. And it's like, she goes. And I'm watching like, please, dear Christ. Like a guy cutting the wires of a bomb. Yeah. Please don't have cilantro. And I don't know what the solution is because I understand from when I was a server for a little,

just being scared of the chefs or everyone's busy. I don't know how to communicate. This has, if it has cilantro, it work it will not work what do you what do you what do you what's the solution uh you gotta you gotta eat it more expensive places i think okay what's the second solution because because that's truly i mean like the amount of effort that you're gonna like because when you're paying really top dollar people like oh fine just make it the way that they want it um because like i don't know you're probably eating at asian places or latin places yeah but even like i get shakshuka a lot and we went to a shakshuka place where she normally has some of

my shakshuka she ordered it it had cilantro in it she the server was like no it does and they say like no it doesn't and she's like i know it does because normally it shouldn't i know but they there's a new recipe. We found out later. She went, she talked to the chef directly. He was like, oh yeah, we started a new recipe with cilantro. But the waiter will say to her, you're wrong. And even I, once in a while, part of me is like, maybe you're wrong. You're wrong.

I mean, it's so hard to imagine it. It's tough because I've tested her. I remember early on in our relationship, I was like, you know like salon show go fuck yourself we'll see about that because she eats everything like i like we fell in love because she asked whether i would be offended if she ate the marrow out of the middle of her osso bucco like on it like a fancy day yeah exactly i was literally i was like oh i love marrow i was in you know it was a beautiful thing yeah so i would mix the salon i'd blanch it i'd shock it i'd puree it i'd mix it with other things like mint and like you know stuff and she'd be like

this is good oh no it's it's good and then she's like eating very and i'm like oh god she does taste she knows fucking hell it's fucking hell um, I mean, they should know how to do it without cilantro. Sure. It's just people think, I think they think, oh, well, if there's a little. Or we got rid of the top. Like, I understand the thinking of like, oh, we'll take it off the top. And it's like, no, if there's a piece in it, it's a piece of soap in the meal. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just a real thing. And I think it, yeah, very much depends on the venue. But then even if you go to a nice restaurant, it's nice restaurants like you know there are times if you go to butter depending on who's working they might be like i'm not gonna ask him that yeah i mean i'm like one of the nicest chefs but by and large like people are like i'm not gonna ask or they're just being lazy sure a lot of lazy waiters out there. A lot of them. Yeah. Most of them. Yeah, waiters have it too good.

Yeah, it's the tips. So, alright, culinary school. You go to culinary school. Which one did you go to? The Institute of Culinary Education when it was on 23rd Street. Now it's downtown. Beautiful view of the Statue of Liberty. How many years is this program? Nine months.

Now tell me any downsides to culinary school i imagine some of them are scams oh yeah it's a huge waste of well it's not a waste of time it's fun it's so fun like your whole job is to like you give them a bunch of money and then you come in and cook some recipes yeah where's the do you eat the food at the end of the day correct and so that does sound like i was the youngest person by 10 years in my culinary school class so like they didn't even want to take the leftovers home they're like no that's okay and i was like are you serious oh man i don't have a job right now yeah like i take that stuff back i was uh i was living in student housing out of the

new yorker hotel yeah uh because the like school's website had something so i was having a great time bringing back all this food it was all kids that were going to fit well girls are going to fit and um and a few other acting school kids yeah uh and so i was like a hero bringing back like cakes and like you know the security too never complained about like any smells coming from my room or complaints because i would be like do you guys like lamb here's an entire rack yeah like do you guys oh you guys like chocolate cool i brought you an entire boudin bouche yeah um but you like it was fun you were yeah i was like 21 people not go there that young 20 going on 21 yeah do people like go there later in life or ice it has a lot of career changers that school in particular because it's not a long program like cia where they're going to have you do like prereqs like in like like a like an accredited university or johnson and wales where it's like this is a school um uh ice is a nine month program so there

are people that do it that like have no intention of working in the field at all and there are people that don't want to be chefs that'll go there and they're like yeah no i want to get into food styling but i want to go to culinary school so i have a better base um so it's super fun but it's not like i i learned some stuff there some did you start to say i'm i'm talented did you start to like go like i think i'm really good at this like when did you go like when when did you so after you finished culinary school you You did okay. You passed. Everybody passes. Everybody passes. Because you paid for it. Sure.

Like, you paid for it. There's no studying. Like, you're supposed to go home and dice carrots. I can find a way. Sure. But it's not like at some point, like, that's not a brunoise. Get the fuck out. Like, they don't do that.

They're like, you paid for it. Your knife skills are terrible. Here's your certificate. Is that certificate useful at all? No, no. As an employer, I have never been like, hey, prove to me that you actually graduated from culinary school. Because if you graduate it from the top culinary school, I'm going to be like, welcome to the

kitchen. You're going to be very shitty at this. And that's okay. Just work really hard on not being shitty at it. Because they don't teach you the actual skills that you need. You just, you have to cook for years. You have to cook for years before you're,

before. I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of savants out there, but most people are not. Most people like come out of culinary school and they're like, I get it. And you're like, okay.

Yeah. Like, I think like any other industry, you know, you go to acting school doesn't necessarily mean that you finish and you're like i am now an actor no i have learned it all no like that's not you know what i mean like it's it gives you a little foundation the best part about that school is it has like a work placement program and i met my mentor as a substitute teacher she cursed out my my buddy julio menino because he was doing the

homework from the night before while she was trying to give the lesson plan and she's like what do you mean he was like making he was making a soup and she's like what are you doing we're making lasagna today what does that mean he's still making a soup uh it was like so there would be questions on like like it was literally like a nine question sheet of paper okay it was a piece of paper i do like the idea of someone's trying to sneakily cook like yeah bourdain said that he snuck bouillon cubes in and he would put it in his soup so it tasted better a little msg um is there as much yelling as it's depicted in these these days not as much i imagine that i imagine that cool like people were like oh whoa whoa we saw some of the chefs

it's as as uh minimum wage has raised i've noticed that the yelling has gone more away because the cooks are more capable of hiring lawyers wow um and just you know modern era it's not as cool as it used to be um it's still like i lost my temper on saturday i threw a plate for the first time in years in years and uh the general manager i went to apologize to him i was like hey i'm so sorry that i lost my temper where'd you throw you threw it at the wall yeah i threw it at the it's it's scary because you just so it's been so long you like black out you're so angry you just black out you're like what happened i've never been in a room where a plate was thrown on the wall. It would be scary.

It's been years. What happened? What was the plate moment? Do people hear that in the restaurant? No. We're one floor below the dining room. Oh, great. No, no.

It could have happened that night that you were there. You would have no idea. Yeah. And I'd come out and be like, hi, how are you? Yeah. I'd be like, you have shards in your forehead. No, no, no. We bleed all the time.

Yeah. It's raspberry jam. Yeah. No, it's a culmination of things yeah and then it was in particular that like the catering directors talking and the gms like talking and the like you know food runners are like well i need this and then our servers like i need 36 and they're like well i still need 23 and they've been waiting long and that's when like just just smash, get the fuck out. Everybody the fuck out.

No white jacket out the fucking kitchen. Sorry. Oh, that's so funny. No, it's still, it's still there. Uh,

um, so the, and then, and you know, what's funny. I went to apologize to him. He goes, nice to see you back.

Like they, like that guy. I like some people love it. I gotta say it's a tough line came out people that's what people they're yelling you know you're do you like is things like the bear is it like listen whenever an art form whenever a job is depicted on tv i'm sure you're an ad agent watching mad men of course music person watching empire is it cool or is it just like this is not what it's

like he didn't throw a single plate in this episode it's not realistic um i mean you know it was and first of all everybody's experience is different and there's so many different facets of the industry because there's so many different types of restaurants yeah i mean working at a chinese restaurant and in flushing is very different than working at Danielle, which is very different than, you know, working at Butter. So there are a couple of things that they'll always get that I'm like, oh, they nailed that. Like in the very first episode of The Bear, he kept looking at the clock and I was like, oh, nobody's ever bothered to do that.

Like I spent all day just looking at the clock every, every minute of all day. You're looking at the clock and you're like, cool. All right. Yeah. And so like when somebody's talking to you because you're timing certain things or you're just like you're timing your day opens like what you need to do yeah because like he's in that episode he's particularly looking at like it's almost five o'clock and that same thing happens for me where i'm like you're talking and i have 10 minutes until tickets are going to start pouring in but you're're still talking, so I'm going to listen to you for another minute.

And then it's also your timing things, and you're looking at, like, when you're in my position, you're looking at when did they get their apps, what time is it? Okay, they can't complain yet. Yeah. Or, like, guys, are you not looking at the clock? It's been 46 minutes. They've been waiting for a salad.

Like, they're going to walk out. They have every right to i hope they do and what does the bear get wrong or what do cooking shows get wrong what i thought was like hilarious in the bears how mean the um the the chef was when they showed him in this michelin star restaurant but that kind of meanness doesn't go very far when you yeah when he's just like yes why you're fucking he's just like you should be fucking dead yeah yeah i laughed i laughed out loud gordon ramsay makes me laugh it was so it was so yeah like absurd the types of yelling at that you would get or at least in my experience was much more hurtful yeah because it would like attack your integrity and like cooking is all about integrity right like like you're doing an art form that like nobody's going to really watch you do unless it's like on tv while they're throwing

like slime at you um and it would be like i thought you were getting better and i thought you cared about this but clearly you don't that's hurtful that would get me good that was like the kind of thing and like and was there yelling and screaming sure but in those moments you're just like put your head down make sure nothing hits you in the head it'll be fine do you consider yourself an artist yeah it's it's just a it's a different type of art um yes but then sometimes i'm just a fucking cook uh-huh he's like dude you're just a cook stop being an artist like i have to say it yeah we like, if like there's a kid and they're like, they want chicken fingers. And like,

we don't have any fucking chicken fingers. I'm like, are you a cook or not? Can you not bread and fry some chicken bread and fry chicken is for a child. Yeah. Like grow up. It's and make them some French fries too.

Matter of fact, make them from scratch. Don't go into the freezer. Come on. Um, so, so you, you found a mentor,

uh, in college, in culinary school. In culinary college in culinary school and then what was your first job at a culinary school was at butter downtown butter downtown wow and it was it super new at that point or has it been there it had been there for two three almost three years uh-huh yeah and uh yeah and how far is this from you being on chopped a couple years so chopped to me that's when i started to think i had skill to answer your question for much earlier you want chopped just before that just before that like i was in the kitchen i was like i am not getting yelled at and she is trying so hard to find something to yell at me for. She's yelling at me for other people's stuff. Is Chopped a risky show to go on?

Like, I want to be on America's Got Talent, but as a comedian, there can be risks because you could bomb, they could edit it horribly. And then all of a sudden people search my name. The first thing that comes up is an 8 million viewed video of me bombing and simon cowell saying you're not very good yeah and i watched your episode and you know there's the woman who they found bone in her fish and i'm like well they had 30 minutes like that's a that's the biggest part of chop this is like yeah why this insane time crunch but that's part of the game that's what makes it fun that's kind of part

of the game but like i just imagined one of them was like a private chef and I'm like, people are going to look up your name and you left bones in the fish. And you're going to lose work. It's true. I mean, at the time I was so overworked. I was very young and I didn't care much about anything. Yeah. So I was like,

whatever, I'll go on. $10,000 is not enough. That was a ton. I was making eight dollars and fifty cents an hour to one episode or is it like a one day yes you get there at six in the morning and you're done at 10 and you're like on it for weeks so I turned down top chef for that very reason that you're talking about because going through the interviewing process they called me it was the first I was like am I getting the call like are you and they're like you're getting the call and I was like you're asking me to go on this show and they're like we are and I was like am i getting the call like are you and they're like you're getting the call and i was like you're asking me to go on this show and they're like we are and i was like okay all right

let's go through the interview process which is several weeks um and as i was going through it i was like i don't think this is the right show for me to go on at least not at this time because there's a chance that they could show footage of me just not the way that i want to be represented on tv and like i even talked to some because i had several friends that had gone on and i was like yo bruce like i know you i know you like how did you like weren't you worried about like at some point they're gonna catch you he's like yeah but like at the same time uh me and my wife were adopting a mixed race baby so i was gold and i was like shit that's right i saw you lean and chopped're like, first in my family to drop out of college. So I need to win this.

Yeah. My friends definitely reach out to me. They're like, so you know, 10,000 is not a lot of money. And I was like, not to you, motherfucker. $8.50 is insane. That's all you're getting paid at Butter? $8.50 was what I was getting paid. The nicer the restaurant, the less they're likely getting paid.

Why? Because you can now put on your resume that you worked at. Let me not name these super nice restaurants but if you work at a two and three star michelin restaurant you're gonna get paid nothing and like it has it gotten any what about you you know you were how are your people paid now oh very well very well especially yeah especially since the pandemic actually yeah surprisingly because i don't we're not we're only open for dinner we're not open for breakfast or for lunch and we've gotten to a point where i've made the margins work so that everybody's getting paid well above minimum wage

as the chef are you also in charge of the financial breakdown at this place yeah i mean that's not all that's not a constant you're always as a chef responsible for like the food cost and the labor cost in the kitchen. That's almost always your, and the labor cost in the kitchen is always like the thing that ownership is going to go after because you can't like, oh, let's just not run water for like half the time and we'll save on our utilities. Like, oh, you know what? Just turn off the lights like around eight when things slow down and then we could save a little, you know what I mean? And like, we have to buy the food and we have to buy good ingredients, you know what? Just turn off the lights like around eight when things slow down. And then we could save a little, you know what I mean? And like, we have to buy the food and we have to buy

good ingredients, you know? Yeah. You can try and buy cheap ingredients, but like that sucks. So then where can you cut? Oh, okay. You know what? Maybe we don't need that guy for like 50 hours a week. Sure. Sure. That, that sort of thing. So like I, but at Butter in particular, yeah, all the finances I report directly to the owner. So when you won Chopped, does that change anything in your trajectory? Do people go, ooh,

we'll give you a raise or ooh, come work at our restaurant. You won Chopped. Come work at our restaurant. The way we work, we give you random ingredients and you have 30 minutes

and then you serve it to a person. No. It didn't change anything really. No, I also didn't even have like a smartphone at the time so it wasn't like i could even like post online like i'm a chop chant like social media was around but like you know like do you deal with chefs that you're like they're not really good but they have a big social media following like yeah they all have that version in our career yeah yeah there are a lot of those and there's some people have to eat it and go like this sucks i yeah i mean i feel but like good for them i want everybody to make their money like go get your money but like there are some people that are like uh shop champion i'm like that's neat uh it's a game

show i mean chopped requires more cooking skill than some of the other ones. But like Cutthroat Kitchen, I went on that and won. And it was straight up a game show. Like they'll make you like ride a tricycle and like chop stuff on a bucking bronco, a mechanical bull. I can't imagine. That's even funnier than the time thing because it's so absurd. It's like we would never be in this position. the time thing because it's so absurd it's like but like we would never be in this position where like you're like maybe if you're on the titanic and it's sinking or something like you're like

having to like chop stuff while it's moving yeah the the that's what it is i can't imagine all the food pitches because we've we talked about it once oh my god we were being interviewed for a possible food show i just feel like food shows are like easy to conceptualize yeah and so they were going to do one they They were like, well, you two, we're going to send you to the restaurants. You eat everything on the menu. And we were like,

you mean like a bite of everything? We try everything. Everything on the menu. And so we were like, we were like, what? But that's impossible. They go,

what would you, what would you be? What do you think about that? And we were like, we just, every episode would be throwing up. Yeah. That'd be the whole episode.

Is you being sick? Like, I don't, i that was the craziest dumbest pitch of a show i've ever but i'm sure they you know we're cooking but they have to do it upside down they're cooking but in a in space with no gravity and to answer your question like it definitely is clear like nobody knows what the exact formula of getting a james beard award is but it's certainly clear that going on tv does not help you get one what is the james is it it's like the academy awards of cooking or at least it was it started to get in a lot of trouble in the last you know decade in america or is this international in america in america so james beard was a guy that was here in new york he has a house that you can still go to for dinners they have like basically a supper club that's run out of there that's very you know it's prestigious i've done two dinners there um well where is it two dinners there how is it uh where is that again the james beard house it's downtown

um yeah it's here oh wow um you could walk by it there's a plaque and it's the house that he actually lived in uh and it has like a kitchen that like is very big for a private residence and very small for a professional kitchen. Yeah. But like you, as you enter, you have to go past that kitchen and upstairs. But they also have done for a very long time these award shows. So they have like, you know, best wine program, best new restaurant, best restaurant, which is like best film, best director. Because they have best restaurateur. They have best chef.

And now this says a lot. They've changed the categories recently. But it says a lot that for the restaurant tour they have best chef and now this says a lot they've changed the categories recently but it says a lot that for the longest time it was best chef northwest best chef southwest best chef midwest best chef new york because new york gets its own category yeah because like you know i know a lot of people in chicago and whatnot that are like yeah we've got a great food scene i'm like you do you do uh-huh do. It's amazing. It's funny because it's just like, it's the same with stand-up comedians in New York.

I feel like every art form in New York, we're like, well, this is the center of the universe. Guys, come on. It's the center of the universe. No, granted, New York has its own problems, and there is some more adventurous food that you can find elsewhere, because here you have to be like the San Antonio Spurs. You can't be too too too artistic um because if people don't come in and eat your food you'll

be closed yeah because our rent is so incredibly interesting like not everyone likes them but they're avant-garde there yeah there are plenty plenty of those, but not here so much. Sure, sure. Like in New York, you can't get away with it so much. Like you have to live in San Francisco and then you can charge people a million dollars for like some really avant-garde cool food, which I love that food. I also like McDonald's,

like, you know, because we're talking about like the Dominique Friends and the Ronald McDonald's. That's the thing, if I was about to die of last meal, McDonald's fries, man. It's a mix of nostalgia. It's just,

it's just, I love it. I'm glad you brought that up. That's the question. What would be your last meal? Oh man. Hmm. That'd be hard.

I think it would be probably my mom's Mac and cheese. Uh, that came from slaves. Uh, yeah, I guess so. Not from my mom. How slavery is your mom?

How slavish is your mom's mac and cheese? I guess. On a scale of one to slave. Pretty slave. It's very good. Okay. Yeah. So it's super slave.

Yeah. Mom makes a mac and cheese extra slave. Oh my God. How about you? I mean, it's tough. It changes a lot. It does change. A cheeseburger is definitely like. A really good cheeseburger would be like, it's tough. It changes a lot. It does change. A cheeseburger is definitely like...

A really good cheeseburger is always good. If I'm about to die, yeah, that's it. And a milkshake because I'm lactose intolerant. But if I'm about to die, fuck it. Ooh, I have milk. Just a glass of milk. Oh, I love a glass of milk and a cheeseburger. A glass of milk?

And a cheeseburger. Whole milk? Yeah. And a cheeseburger? Yeah. Instead of a milkshake definitely that's why it doesn't feel like i'm getting any sort of um nutrients uh no because you're about to die no no we don't care about that the the um the doesn't feel like i'm getting like i'm like able to it feels too thick to like sure sure you're not washing down the burger yeah yeah you know what i mean well i'd still need a coke like i'm not gonna oh i see what you're saying

um i wait i had a question uh if you were to think of and you know i it'd be it's a hard question for you probably but if you had to think of like top three food experiences or meals or things and you're like just like you know this is the downside well i but i want to get to get to talk to the worst three meals ever uh well we could do that too but i'm like also just you know like just to hear like i'm glad that you said it like that when you have a meal that is like holy because i hate it when people ask me like what's your favorite restaurant i'm like well restaurants have good days and bad days exactly and it's also it's all i hate it when i hate it when people say what's your favorite thing to cook i always say like your mother um because that's a stupid question i don't like that's too come on yeah what's your favorite joke

yeah exactly what's your favorite job sure yeah sure be funny wait be funny real quick yeah yeah um but favorite experience that i've had yeah Yeah. So Alinea is way up there. I really, really enjoyed it. I was nervous about it. Me and my fiance flew to Chicago just to eat there. And like when we got there, they're like, well, your table's not quite ready and we don't have a bar. So we can walk you next door to the place next door and you can have a drink there. We do it all the time. The place next door, door by the way is a two-star michelin restaurant

called boca it's a very nice restaurant yeah um and like we were sitting there like drinking i was like i'm i'm nervous are you nervous like we're about to drop like 800 a person on a meal that we flew like halfway across the country just to eat like yeah what if it sucks and she's like i'm nervous too and then we sat down and the waiters were like are you guys nervous and we're like yeah they're like don't and it's like you know like pudgy bearded like dudes that just make you feel comfortable because they're like nah the food's good you're gonna be good like here eat these rocks and you're like what they're like just kidding they're not rocks they're painted like rocks it's actually a uh seaweed and calamari infusion and it and like the whole thing was so

absurd yeah that it was really like literally they come in and they like pour dry ice over these flowers that like cover the entire table and then you eat the flowers because the amuse bouche was all edible flowers and dishes based on edible flowers yeah and then they bring you into the kitchen and you're making this like elaborate funny enough they're like do you have any food allergies and she's like should i say cilantro i was like just tell them cilantro so that they don't have the second course was a um romaine heart leaf with fresh coriander pickled pickled coriander fresh coriander dried coriander cilantro leaf and then the root of the cilantro that very few people ever have access to and i was like aren't you glad you said something um

and like and then the dessert is this this guy became famous because he would paint the dessert on the table yeah so they come and they drop what looks like a vase of flowers in front of you like on each table and then they come around and at one point somebody like grabs it throws it in the air and it crashes on your on your table and you eat it and then like in other tables they just smash it and you like eat it like it's it was absurd and then they that's the place where they invented the edible balloon so like literally you have like you like eat the string from the balloon as it gets closer and then you just like eat the balloon and then every everybody's talking like munchkins oh my god amazing i was like holy shit i want to go there it was amazing um grand atchis

is like he's a genius um that was way up there momofuku ko in their first year the first year they were open when it was still just the eight seats and like i stopped talking to my companions yeah because i was so angry because i was a hater i was like i don't get why everybody talks about david chang he's like a dick yeah like he's's getting all this cloud i see him at the james beard awards wearing like multiple medals i ate at sambar it's a fucking burrito like and then i ate a co and i was like that was like 10 years ago the amuse bouche was a seared scallop with olive tapenade and broccoli rabe soup then a biscuit with a super molasses-y gel and some

chicharron. There's an oxtail consomme with tortellini. There's a venison with elderberry jam and aerated sunchokes. I remember almost the entire meal. All the shaved frozen foie gras. If you did a quiz where I had to answer what all those things were that he just said I would get about 20% correct.

Is it sad? I mean restaurants go downhill all the time all the time the thing is what's hard about restaurants too i feel like is that you can have an experience like that and as someone when you have it you want to do it again and a lot of times even though even if you're going back and it's not bad by any means there's a special thing that happens sometimes with food and what's happening that day. It's so much a part of the experience. Absolutely. It's impossible to recreate. It's not the restaurant's even fault.

No. It's so like you've come in with this energy. Food's central, man. You've come in with this thing. And so the times that you remember in your life that are so special, obviously the kitchen and the thing was having a top-notchch night but also whatever was going on in your life is a huge factor in it and it's so hard because there's so many times you've gone to a restaurant you've had this magical thing and you're like you want you want to bring someone it's not that it's not good it's often very very good but it's it's you can never live up to it when it's that good sometimes yeah like well you're just gonna recreate

that moment be like wait wait but like all right what if you you go to that side of the bar i'll come to this side i'll just try to recreate that exact same night you know and then we'll and then we'll do it over here and then like it'll be magical and like no no good luck yeah even if you're just trying to do an anniversary thing you're like yeah that was nice it's really lovely yeah we went back to the place that we went to that one time when we were younger yeah it was great oh it was a lovely weekend yeah it's not the same thing yeah no um now before we go on to our our next segment uh biggest kitchen disaster you've you've been a part of like biggest fire or or food disaster spilling of beans what what was it so there god there have been so many disasters um i'd say way up there i mean mother's day 2017 is like a day that will live in infamy for a long

time that was that was really bad but um at butter midtown yeah 2017 when this guy thought that this girl was covering this guy and vice versa and they didn't neither one showed up and then this guy was like hung over and called out and then this guy felt like showing up an hour and a half late so it's just me and the pastry chef and the celebrity chef who had just dropped by to like because you know it helps for people to see like, yeah, even though she's a mom, she's here on mother's day. And so like nobody was there and I was starting to get,

and I was only there to like kind of get them going. So the celebrity chef is there to help. Yeah. She was really there because we were like, go touch tables. If you're in scene in the dining room, people are gonna be like, Oh my God,

she's here on mother's day. It's amazing. Yeah. I had the best mother's day. And she's doing it. Is she getting paid for that day or she's just like. No, she kind of never gets paid for the restaurant. She just likes to come by.

She hired everybody. Okay. Okay. You know, damn near everybody. I mean, I hired at this point, like, no, the people that have lasted are all the people that like were there when she was new, you know, that there are a lot of 20 year employees there. So, so then what how did so it

was i mean it was it was like because i was like wait a second oh shit we're really wait where is everybody oh no and like you know i'm looking at the clock and i'm like okay so at this point i need to start setting up that station which would take a normal person an hour to do and this would take an hour and this would take an hour and this would take an hour and we have an hour until service and i was like it's very stressful and that's exactly that's where i'm like oh shit and she's like talking and i'm trying not to alert her to just no no they're all in their way and she's like okay are you sure it seems like this is a lot no no just like go to the dining room and go away and don't come back at all it'll be fine and like i'm trying to like calmly with like a smile like set

up all this shit um and then eventually like the tickets came in the jig was up and the ticket i mean 200 people sat at the same time um and i've never like just the printer was just on the floor the kid that was across the way that was supposed to be reading the tickets to me was like i don't i don't yeah i don't i don't know what to do you have a and the manager who's the coolest calmest guy ever uh nick came down and was like hey guys what's going oh oh shit oh shit because just all these orders just lined up and like the kids holding another 20 orders in his hand and i and for the first time in a long time, I kind of froze up and I was like, I don't know what to do first. And eventually I got to my,

like, and literally she's crying tears, just rolling down her face. She's like, this is not how I wanted to spend my mother's day. And I'm like, this is why I wanted to spend my mother's day. Yeah.

Um, and I just, I, all right, I'm going to make 10 of this omelet, 10 of this omelet, 10 of these burgers, 10 of these steak and eggs, 10, just send them wherever the fuck you want. I don't care. And as I'm all right, I'm going to make 10 of this omelet, 10 of this omelet, 10 of these burgers, 10 of these steak and eggs.

Just send them wherever the fuck you want. I don't care. And as I'm doing that, Nick went upstairs, pulled a chair out into the middle of the dining room, stood on top of the chair and cut the music. I was like, hey, can I get your attention? I'm sorry. There was a small explosion in the kitchen. It was gas related. Don't worry.

Everybody is fine. Please do not be alarmed. However, people have been hurt. Please do not be concerned about the ambulance that you might see outside. You're welcome to wait for your food or we can make you reservations elsewhere. Antonio will be fine, though. That's that's really the important thing is that everybody's going to be OK. Because then if you're mad, it's like dude what are you're not a human being

like lives were almost lost oh my god but now because you told me that story if there's ever an explosion i'm gonna say shut the fuck up there's that curb episode where it's like the small disturbance in the kitchen they're at like a restaurant and they're like the waiter comes out i was like sorry there's been a small disturbance in the kitchen they're at like a restaurant and they're like the waiter comes out i was like sorry there's been a small disturbance in the kitchen and the whole thing is like what was it what what is it and it's like just being like vague about because i've seen fistfights i've seen knife fights i you know knife fights in the kitchen yeah i mean well it was really it was a knife versus a pan and a towel oh but like a shield versus a nut do people keep continue working together after that

sort of thing or there's firing oh oh there's usually firing but like yeah you heard he threw a plate and they said good you're back the king is back that is amazing that's such a that's such a bold move that was yeah i was so proud but he clearly he knew there was no yeah he saw what was happening and was like. There's no way. In New York, it makes me think there's so many sirens in New York. You really could be like, guys, you're going to hear an ambulance. You're going to hear an ambulance. It's okay.

It's okay. So, yeah, that was really bad. I mean, there's another health inspector story. I'm not going to tell that. For a second, though, did you think like, has there ever been a time where they don't have the, I guess, the mind to lie and just go, sorry, guys, no dinner tonight. More often than not, they're just like, oh, the kitchen sucks. So, you know, and then we're and I'm just like making it happen. But like we've never that I've never failed like that before.

There have been nights where I'm like, that was horrible. And usually there's guaranteed there's one server that's like, my section was fine. There's one server every night, no matter how horrible it was in the kitchen. And no matter how many plates I threw and like fires I put out. And I'm like, oh my God, that was a fucking disaster. We're going to have to retool the entire menu. There's always that one server that's like, I didn't notice a difference. Everything's fine.

I made a lot of tips. How do you feel about servers? mean that's the thing that's why there's that animosity because like at 8 50 an hour the servers were also making like five dollars an hour plus tips so it turns out to like 25 an hour uh and so there's always going to be that animosity because the front of the house will get paid well like the uh by and large like the average server usually makes as much as a sous chef jesus whereas your line cook just busting ass for years to try and get to that level but like you don't get in it for the money right but there's still some part of you that's why like a server might be like hey guys thank you so much have a good night and the cook's like go

fuck yourself burn in hell oh you're taking an uber home that looks nice yeah yeah yeah i'm gonna go on the subway and get back to corona awesome thank you um but you know at this age i don't at this point like i run the whole show so i'm like guys without them there's no us and vice versa and guys don't ever talk about your money in front of them don't do it yeah um and i see the payroll like in its entirety i see the finances in entirety so it's different i have a different perspective i'm not so but there's still a part of me it's like guys don't complain about your day in the kitchen ever sure even if they if you have the same exact day like they probably got burnt and cut and are sweating because there's no like air sure but a lot of those servers wish they were

on broadway right now that's true and so for them they're paying and those are definitely the best servers also they have to deal with people like well i mean they have to deal with people too but like i just think of sometimes when i'm with like family members in the way that they talk to servers it's very it's very good it's awful and you shouldn't the problem is that like they if they have the exact same day no it's not just the burning and the cutting they're making more money oh for sure so like you know and the cooks like they don't deal with a plethora of like awful people but they usually deal with like one really awful person the stress of and then they go home to like no money i mean they're making the literal food i'm exaggerating because i'm genuinely very

respectful to everybody that works it makes i care about like them and i've done that job yeah and i'm like it's like there's no point in yelling them right now like go faster i presume you're going as fast as you can yeah yeah so just keep going as fast as you can you're doing great i'll tell you what you need to do um all right let's go to our next segment this has got to stop this has got to stop is there something that's got to stop either in, it could be your own life or it could be the cooking world, restaurants, the awards, TV shows, anything. What has to stop? I think, this is a very tough question because I was thinking like, I do, I really hate it

when people say, find what you love to do and you'll never work a day in your life and i'm like that's like you must be the laziest piece of shit ever like like just because i love what i do does not make it not work like it's a work in fact that's what makes it work like yeah because now it has to have structure around instead of just like oh yeah i like to cook on the weekends it's super fun like i you know love cooking. It's all I care about. And restaurants. But it is a grind. You have to work on it. So I hate that phrase. That's got to stop.

I'll add on to that where sometimes if I have a stand-up thing and it's stressful, I'm working. It's hard. You're working. And sometimes people do that thing like, are you having fun? Are you enjoying it? And I'm like, okay. There's nothing worse than if you're not having fun or you're stressed for them to feel shame that you're not having fun.

Nothing, nothing makes me at least less fun than being told I'm not having enough fun. Yeah. And how am I supposed to cure that in the moment? Yeah. You're right. You're right. Oh, this is the dream. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, I, I completely agree with that real quick guy fieri you like him he's very nice to me i like him how's his cooking uh i have never eaten something that he made with his own two hands um but i'll say this like the first time i met him he was like where you from i was like oklahoma i was first of all i was pissed that he was even there because i was because we what happened I was a sous chef at the time this is at the Darby on 14th and 8th it was a supper club

and I was down a line cook so I was going to be covering two stations and then you know I was like oh by the way Guy Fieri and Rachel Ray are doing a party downstairs he's going to need to cook a little bit up here but it'll be fine and I was like where not next to me he's not and then he you know he comes up and i was like here's this fucking guy this clown show

and he's like hey how's it going by the way your kitchen's and then just hit me with all these compliments and i was like okay all right stop you superstar you and he's like oh where are you from i was like oklahoma he's like oh ishens is good and i was like you know about your people do their research ishens is a um fried chicken joint there's like they're like i don't even think they have ovens or stovetops they just have deep fryers and they do fried okra fried chicken um and bread and pickles and three dollar pitchers of beer that's all they do this is good oh it's heaven on earth except for the racism it's heaven on earth yeah it for the racism. It's heaven on earth. It takes a while for me to get a drink. I cannot wait to go here.

One of the oldest bars in Oklahoma. The place is magical. It's just everything. Just the guy, Fieri, dropping in by the kitchen. I'm obviously making it about my own experiences, but it's just the famous comedian dropping in into the club. It's just the hierarchy and the art and the work it's all

the same shit it's all the same especially New York it's all the same shit and it's and we're on top of each other and it's constant and like there's never a dull moment okay are you okay for a second yeah why I just one one thing I did want to ask and I only know about it tangentially but

there's a degree of in terms of like when it comes to like race and cooking certain dishes, I feel like there's been a conversation about like, why is this person speaking on like, you know, some Jewish guys like, here's how to make pho correctly. How do you feel about it, given that it does feel like cooking is part of it is cooking different dishes true and one might go oh i don't i don't feel connected to whatever my culture's dish is do you have any overall feeling about it overall no everything's conflicted you know because it's art so i'm conflicted about all of it because like are you okay with russell's mom making mac and cheese to begin with? Are you like, no, that,

that, that is offensive to me. Stop. Actually that, that has to stop. I, I was going to wait until the show was over to be like, stop.

Russell's mom. Your, your, your mom is clearly a racist and needs to stop making mac and cheese. Um, no, like, because I'm like,

wait, am I, am I destined to only be allowed to make a fine dining version of like what my ancestors made i have a conflicted ancestral history that's not fair like you know and so you know my feeling is like we're not all just one thing so like fuck it and there are no rules i say that all the time in the kitchen i'm like there are no rules the beauty of me not being french or italian is that i can shit all over their tradition and do things that like a french man

would go sacre bleu you cannot do this that is not how you oh my god this is not coco van i can be like yeah i used like you know i used some pancetta and some bacon and some guanciale instead of just you know and that's actually like not even a chicken i put a turkey in there it's fine because i don't have to live by those rules so that's i mean that's how i kind of feel about it um and i don't like that people are beholden to like only cooking from their ethnic background i get that that seems more genuine to people but like but also then like that i could see that that that if you're in that in that thing you'd feel so limited yeah you'd be like okay i don't want to do the same and also that's not how food works like i i got into an argument with an italian in uh reggio emilia

about how america doesn't have a cuisine and i was like well your cuisine's borrowed from a lot of people he's like it's italian and i was like okay but what's that mean like so it's like nothing is like influenced by germany nothing's influenced by france nothing's influenced by the moors traveling here like nothing like are you serious how long have you been a nation yeah like no like the same thing everywhere like every cuisine has that people move around and they fuck and then they eat food so like things get mixed that's how it happens tacos al pastor that's not mexican that's arab like that's that's from people settling in an area what's another good example um i mean i like move fucking eat instead of eat pray love they move they fucking eat yeah um and so you

know that that's how good food i think is made is by a blending of cultures and yeah and classes i guess i i just imagine there's probably been a lot of like historically at least in america white people being like here's the here's how you make faux and here's how you make this and there was a degree of like okay we need to chill the fuck out and there's some part of me that like because sean brock's like the man and like he's making amazing food and i've eaten in his restaurants and there's like the food's so good and he's genuinely passionate he knows what he's talking about there's still some tiny little part in the back of my brain where i'm like that's slave food using slave ingredients all that food came here from slavery

but i'm sure he knows the history of everything and he's truly genuinely talking about this is where i grew up and this is what i grew up with and this is what my grandparents made and my parents made and now i'm making this which is genuine that's fucking genuine to be a term because obviously i cannot say the term slave food uh the the way that you're slinging it around no no no what what what would be the way to acknowledge it uh it's just the african-american influence yeah i mean um so it's tough because they because even within that like there's so many subcategories because there's Gullah, there's Creole, there's Low Country. All of that exists in the same – Gullah and Geechee gets confused for one another all the time. There's a huge regional cuisine in that southeast part of our country where the slave trade was huge.

I guess the most appropriate thing is to just say i mean you can call it american food that's what it is just know what you're saying when you say american food we're talking about appalachian we're talking about gulligici we're talking about creole we're talking about uh low country we're talking about barbecue we're talking about you know california cuisine sure fine uh and you can say african-american food i guess no that's offensive don't say that. Because people are going to be like, oh, you mean cornbread and collard greens

and watermelon and fried chicken? I'm not going to add that accent to it. You totally should. You should go to Harlem and do it. I interviewed to be a waiter at Red Rooster once. Oh, yeah? And I did not get the job. I cheated on the test, too.

What do you mean how i'd like they said like what wine goes with what and i googled it right there well they probably don't get the job that you because you probably said like exactly like you googling on the test and we're like he's cheating we're not gonna give him the job i would have 100 giving you the job i'd be like look at that somebody cares trying somebody cares because i've given written tests and they usually write i don't know they write i don't are they multiple choices no one of them literally the the answer was sad face oh but i was quizzing them on things that like of people that already work at the restaurant

on things that i would like for them to know so that they can communicate to the guests yeah like what it is that we're making and i literally just sad face um all right let's go to our last segment you better count your blessing you better count your blessing go to start it off yeah you go first uh my blessing is um uh tova's tova's in my room i don't think she can hear it but she was coming she came back from a trip we hadn't seen each other for a while and i was like i should get it i should get something something nice to come home to and a flower shop opened right across from me wow and i like was able in five minutes to just get a bouquet,

leave it, and she loved it. And now I'm just like, I think I'm going to be, it's to have a flower shop right next to me. I mean, I could end every argument anytime she's mad at me. I'm going to be keeping this thing in business. I'm going to be living in a terrarium soon. Just filling it with bouquets every time she's mad at me and so uh it's it's nice and it's nice to get your girlfriend flowers yeah and it's nice when it's just a little more convenient yeah um russ you have a blessing you know i don't know i'm i feel like a lot of nice things happening right now do you have like friends

that oh came to your show oh my god i was gonna say something else no no no what's i was well i was think i was just thinking it's chrissy boys uh but he's not gonna hear this so i'm not gonna give him a fucking shout out um but you know it's his last show with uncle function in new york uh so i'm feeling extra um i don't know how to describe it i feel i i i you know he he's led the uncle function ship just so people know who this is chris cafero okay look him up he's a member of uncle function uh he's this member if you're watching this video and uh he just above hillary clinton right just above hillary clinton yeah got him and um jess will love that um and uh so he has pretty much been

the leader of uncle function right he's been our leader uh our president of uncle function yeah for seven years and he is leaving he's moving to la we have our last show ever with him it already happened it already happened by the time you hear it already happened we already shed tears you missed it there were plenty of seats too there you're gonna come but you didn't and uh i'm thankful for him and um i'm really gonna miss him uh and i'm also thankful john marco and so the game to my show yesterday that's very nice i i'll have my ode for Chrissy Boy after LA. Oh, yeah, yeah.

When all the tears are shed. Oh, yeah. I'm worried it's going to be. Chris is going to cry. Chris is going to make a speech. We're going to try to get all, we have a decent amount of industry coming to the LA in theory. And then it's just like us crying on stage being like they're like they came to LA and we're like this is it we're done as a group

it's funny we start crying during the last sketch because it's me in a thong with whipped cream in my ass and if we're crying like that that'll be fun do you have a blessing you'd like to share yeah I've had four now four packages

in a row that got delivered to my building and they did not get stolen from Adam, the guy in apartment number 19 that's been stealing everybody's shit. He's been stealing. You know who it is? You know he's been stealing? The cops said that it's not been enough that they're going to like, you know, bust into his apartment. You have camera? did somebody this beautiful uh human being on the second floor pressured the uh company uh the the realtor uh what's called the landlord the landlord enough to like you know then she taped a photo of him a security photo of him walking through the hallway like with a package under his arm and

she's like his name is adam i forget his last name apartment number 19 blah blah and all of us were like it's you mother so like we the cops have been confronting him people people are all we were just talking to the people that live up the you know on his because i'm on the second floor it's all walk up and then on the third floor is where he is and the girls across the way were like oh yeah people are at the door all the time like if anything's missing they're like open up adam i want my roller skates god damn it have you seen this guy i haven't seen him in i work different hours than people so i usually don't see any of my neighbors um adam his name's adam though adam if you're a listener often i'm

like and i put up a note i was like i want those size 10 nikes i want my dog shoe toys back like the girl the woman on the first floor has like teaches like special education and was like, hope you enjoyed the toys. Like he takes everything. Special ed toys. It's how he could be special ed. Let's, let's.

And he's, and he's playing with the toys. No, no, no. That's, he's a robber. He's, he's, he's a robber who knows what he's doing. If you saw him,

what would you say to him? If you were in the elevator and you said hi, he'd say hi, I'm Adam. Do you know what I'd say to him? I'd say, good afternoon. And then when he got off the elevator, I'd be like, oh, that guy. You get drunk, you text me like,

if I see this motherfucker. If I find him, I will fucking kill him. Okay, this is coming out September 27 27th is there anything you want to plug uh other than your restaurant or say your restaurant too let them know yeah i don't think any of our listeners can afford butter but go ahead i don't make any money off of butter doing well i just maintain my salary so i don't need to plug them for For sure. I have a New York Food and Wine Festival dinner on October 14th, but it's already sold out, so I don't know that I really need to plug that either.

Stay tuned. So if downside listeners come to Butter and they go, can you let the chef know? By the way, our prices are super reasonable considering inflation. Yeah inflation yeah and midtown and the current market if russell came now after this and be honest i know i don't know i came now with his wife and just saw you and said hi full honesty full honesty i'd be like who the fuck are you i'm just kidding how do i know you i know you from somewhere. Give them a, give them an extra crouton.

No, I do it all the time. I'm like, I'm like, you know what? Tell them that their, their desserts are on me. Um, you know, oh, that's very kind. I do that all the time. Um, uh, we didn't even cover, but I guess I'll, I'll ask you off the pod. I was gonna ask how, how he knew Lindsay. But that's not, I don't know if our listeners are interested.

I'm sure they're fascinated. I just was curious. If they're reality TV show fans, then they'd be interested. That's our common connection. Is it Ariana? Ariana Maddox from Vanderpump Rules. Oh, you're both friends with... She used to work at Butter.

Oh, okay. We got to get her on the pod. Yeah. Anything you want to plug? September 27th. Everything that's happened in my life is done. I have nothing on the docket as of

now. Follow me on Instagram and I'll reshare John Marco's things every day. We made two sketches. I'm very proud of them. things every day. We made two sketches. I'm very proud of them. At Russell J. Daniels. We're going to make some more sketches. There'll be more shows in November, December,

but I don't know right now what is happening in October. And we made sketches, was what I was saying. We made some downside sketches. We did, we did, we did. If you're a fan, share them, and we're going to keep making some more. We got a penis-related one for excitement. Do we?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we do we? oh yeah we do who's the guest for that? oh yeah don't forget the Patreon oh thank god Jesus Christ wow if you like the downside remember we have a live show that we do on Amazon's new amp app

you can download it for free in the app store above average produces it and you can listen to us 4-5pm EST every Tuesday with a guest and if you don't want to listen live join the Patreon, it's patreon.com slash downside for $5 a month you get to listen to all of these episodes

ad free, you get all the amp live episodes recorded after the fact you get to listen to them and all the old bonus episodes where I did that were very problematic and will get us in trouble one day and extra goodies extra stuff coming down we're going to figure out merch soon you'll get early access to that

maybe even some free if you do the $10 tier patreon.com slash downside even if you don't want extra downside it's a good way to support us and if you have any merch ideas let us know because we're thinking about creating some merch and if we hit 500 Patreon subscribers. We're going to have sex.

Something crazy is going to happen. You thought we were ready to pitch it? We haven't decided anything. Once we hit 500, we're going to do something. It's either sex or. Maybe just fingers. And remember, whether it's you trying to recreate your first time at a great restaurant or recreate your first time having sex

or recreate anything life is just you can't recreate it it's just gradually disappointing enjoy it in the moment enjoy it in the moment because one day the moment will be over this is nice outside

1, 2, 3 downside One day the moment will be over. We're trying to end this. This is nice outside. One, two, three.