The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #118 Curve & Brawn with Zach Miko

Episode Date: January 10, 2023

Zach Miko shares the downsides of being Target’s first plus-size male model, what to do with the term ‘fat’, how acting classes are like cults, whether it’s better that we cry more than our dads, and then Gianmarco goes on a rant about Dragon Ball Z that nobody who actually listens to this podcast will understand.  Get tickets for The Downside's live recording in NYC on January 15 featuring Alia Janine here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-downside-with-gianmarco-soresi-live-podcast-recording-tickets-471811670407 You can watch full video of this episode HERE! Join the Patreon for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and MORE. Listen to our live weekly show on AMP! Follow Zach Miko on Instagram and Twitter. Follow Douglas Goodhart on Instagram & TikTok See Douglas in The Wedding Singer at The Gateway in Long Island! Follow Gianmarco Soresi on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, & YouTube Subscribe to Gianmarco Soresi's email & texting lists Check out Gianmarco Soresi's bi-monthly show in NYC Get tickets to see Gianmarco Soresi in a city near you Watch Gianmarco Soresi's special "Shelf Life" on Amazon E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Paige Asachika & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Spencer Sileo Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Part of the Authentic Podcast Network Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is The Downside with Jamarcus Oresi. This is being released in the new year. This is our second episode of the new year. Hey, welcome. I am here with my fill-in co-host, a musician, comedian, musical theater star. That's public, right? That's public.

Yeah, it's about to be the lead. Is this under wraps? Do they say it's okay to? No NDAs? The lead of The's okay to? Yeah, they say it's okay. The lead of The Wedding Singer. Yeah. Oh, nice. I'm playing The Wedding Singer at the Gateway Playhouse in Long Island,

Bellport, Long Island. Very nice. I'm going to plug it at the end of the show, but not now. Sure, sure. I do need to say, again, thank you for listening. Despite this garbled intro intro this is a new year we're growing we got a live episode we have a live episode january 15th at 10 p.m it's late for a sunday but it's worth it because we have a guest alia janine who is uh a former she's she's

a fantastic comedian now but she worked in the adult entertainment industry. Oh, wow. So you already know her. I sure do. And she's going to talk to us about working in that industry and then leaving that industry, especially as a woman. It's very challenging

the society and judgment and everyone was jerking to you and now they don't want to hire you for the job. That's bullshit. Yeah. And it's a good episode for the downside.

I imagine it'd be a lot like leaving a cult, honestly. Leaving a cult. Sure. Leaving a cult. Sure. You know, like probably there are people that you don't talk to anymore. There are probably people that shun you on both sides of the, you know, whether you're in the industry or not in it. Yeah.

I'm excited. I'm excited to watch. I'll be there watching. You'll be there watching? Yes. And good. You're our first ticket sale. And then for all the live episodes, you get to watch and listen to it.

If you join the Patreon, patreon.com slash downside. But enough. Enough. Enough of that. Enough of that. Truly. We're here with a guest. We met in a scene study class.

Maybe eight years ago or more. Yes. Yeah. Wow. Which I had no idea it had been that long until i like realized i haven't paid that bill in a very long time please welcome welcome to the show zach miko everybody how are you doing i'm doing good what's your what's your hyphens you like to say you model first model i guess a model is what pays me the most so i guess that's what we're

going by here that's the first in the hyphen. Tell us something sad to kick off this music. Tell me what's bothering you. What sucks? The Lower East Side right now. I mean, I know that's really hard. No, I worked here for years and I didn't recognize a single thing when I got here. All my piss spots were gone.

It just ended in an hour drive, so I was kind of nervous. But I found one. Hair of the Dog still exists. This is the downside, yeah. You're listening to The Downside. The Downside. With Gianmarco Cerezi.

Thank you for listening. That was Douglas Goodhart, who you just heard earlier. Oh, yeah. We're upgrading everything but the song. Yeah, no, no, no. One day when there's enough money, I'm going to come to you and say, let's get like a full band. Let's do a recording session.

Oh, my God, that'd be so much fun. Let's come up with the track for Spotify. Yeah, like with real professional musicians playing my shitty bass parts and stuff. Violin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Call a cymbal at the end. Yeah. Well, Zach, we'll get to your downsides in a second. my shitty bass parts violin call a symbol at the end yeah well

Zach we'll get to your downsides in a second I want to something that's been on my mind that I've been thinking about this is going to date

the episode a little bit okay okay slightly it's just been on my mind as a downside where so was it

who's the the misogynistic guy Andrew Tate oh yeah Andrew Tate. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. So he, uh,

I feel like this feeds into what we're going to be talking about here, but Andrew Tate, uh, you know, tweeted, he's back on Twitter, tweeted something at Greta Thunberg. Oh,

uh, this is all, this is just like, God, every person in this, we don't have all the people that tweet, but tweeted at her, uh,

all the cars that he drives and the emissions. And like, I'll send you a full list of all the cars and the emissions. So Greta Thunberg, you know, quote tweeted it. She's very savvy with social media. Whenever people are that good at social media, I'm like, is this a team? Is this just you and you're incredible? But whatever. So she kind of quote tweeted like

Oh thank you for telling me about all this car stuff Why don't you tell me more of it You can email it to me At smalldickenergy At getalife.com Very viral Lots of things Here's my thing

And I'm not calling you out on this But some men do have small dicks And There's a degree and I'm not calling you out on this, but some men do have small dicks. Sure. And there's a degree where the burn is great. Great burn. And you got to play it cool. You don't want to be a nerd.

But there are always moments, and I think we're going to be talking about bodies and body shaming and love and acceptance and all these things. And dicks and fake dicks and all that fun stuff. and body shaming and love and acceptance and all these things and dicks and fake dicks where you just can't help but go

good burn, but there are this kind of thing that all bad men have small dicks is not good. I thought my boyfriend was nice until I saw his dick and he must be such a piece of shit. A monster.

Just his karmatic dick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you got to imagine, if you have a small dick, you're like, well, then I'm just going to lean into this. What's the point of being nice with a small dick? Truly. And maybe these guys, maybe Andrew has a big fat cock. We don't know. Yeah.

To make any association between body and behavior ultimately cannot be good at the end of the day. And in a world where we espouse body positivity, there's just moments where you go, oh, are we all lying? When Chris Christie does something wrong and then everyone goes, open the floodgates of body shaming Chris Christie, there's a feeling of, well, I guess we, we didn't mean this or we were thinking these things. And the moment someone politically disagrees, it's a tricky area. It really is.

Because you're not going to stop people from making fun of people's appearances. No, it's funny. I mean, some people look funny. It always will. I have noticed more, especially that I'm in this, but for, for anyone who has no idea. I mean, some people look funny. It always will. I have noticed more, especially that I'm in this. But for anyone who has no idea who I am right now.

I should bring this up. When they see on the tape, they're going to see how beautiful I am. It's undeniable. No. For all intensive purposes, I was the first mainstream plus-size male model ever. I guarantee you other plus size men have been photographed, but I was the only one with an agent in campaigns and stuff. Yeah.

So that's why I get like the first title. Wow. And in doing so, my whole life. If you're just listening, he's wearing a shirt that says it. His jacket says it. His shoes say number one. I have a vanity plate on my very large truck for my very large penis yeah no i i so my life has just become about that and i think i didn't realize i think it's like

especially calling someone fat and whatnot it is such a back pocket like you're from the moment you're three years old you're like that's an insult that's gonna upset people i know how to do that so especially when you don't like people you always want to go at them and it wasn't until i started doing this i realized how lazy it was like i remember uh watching a bill maher segment before i totally stopped watching bill maher but people still do people i watch him every single day i watch all the reruns he is so old and sad and it is just like but regular people do like like not like i was just with like people who aren't in the arts. Yeah.

And we were in a long car ride and they were like, hey, you, you want to, you mind if I put on some Bill Maher? And I was in shock. What? I was in shock. I was in shock. That is wild. I think it's because I really got into him in like the, while Trump was running the first time. Because I was just like, oh, he's really good at cutting people I don't like down.

This is fun. Well, that's what's tough about him is that he kind of aligns. And then takes some real curves. He's like, I'm a liberal hero. I donated a million dollars to these causes and all this stuff. And all of a sudden,

he becomes like an old Facebook dad. And you're just like, oh. The march of time, it takes them all down. I just think about totally. Will I be able to see it when I do it? Will I be able to notice when I'm like, when you cross the line, these kids,

they're so lazy. These days, like, will I be able to catch myself? My daughter's three years old and I'm already like, what is she going to think? I'm a bigot about, I think we're all going to be bigots about AIs.

I think AIs are going to be considered people and we're going to be like, we're going to be the old people being like, that is not a person. I totally agree. That is not a person, and they're going to be like, Dad, you're such a racist. Honestly. I did a whole episode of my defunct podcast about this

where I was like, she's going to bring home a cyborg partner, and I'm going to be like, this is unnatural. You are. And I'm going to look so bad look i don't think it's gonna map entirely race like the exact same race it's not gonna be the exact same you're not gonna be like that ai is very well spoken oh god wow i think he's a well-spoken ai oh man i remember bill maher did a segment though when he was like going after trump and his whole thing was like he's a terrible person he's a racist a misogynist he's sexually assaulted people he's the worst human being

imaginable um and most of all he's fat and then he did a monologue about just trump being fat and i was like what this is i don't give a i know so many nights lazy it's so lazy and it's like you've been a professional comedian for i don't know 40 years and you're still once a week you got some time to build this and you have a writing team show okay fat jokes every once in a while you got a writing team you got an hbo budget there's so many good jokes like especially someone like trump are like this is endless material but there's something about us that like reverts back to like let's call him him fat. He's not going to like that. But like people, even people who I promised would be sharing body positivity things. There's that picture of him golfing.

There's like one shot of him golfing and you see his big white ass. And like you can't help but see it and go like, that's a big white ass. And like, and there's a degree where it's like, well, he's very judgy about people's looks. Oh, yeah. So it does feel like, well, you've entered the arena. I think that's where it comes from. I think people, they say, he's been shaming people. He calls people ugly.

But if you look like that, there has to be a part of you in your brain where you're like, oh, people judge me for looking like this. Oh, yeah. They just don't say it to me, but they say it to him, but they're admitting they have the thought. I think it's when you really hate somebody. You really want to hit them where you know it's going to cause them

actual pain. And I think that's like, especially like with the small dick thing, every guy is worried from the moment he was born that his dick is too small. Oh, my God.

Just because we have no idea. I could talk about this a lot. And that's just like, you're absolutely worried. I just wish my father had sat me down. And like the first moment when he noticed that I was watching porn, like when they caught me, they found like a videotape in the VCR upstairs.

I wish my dad had been like, I think we just addressed our age differential right here with the VHS. Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry. 1984, I was born in 1984. My first was a VHS as well. So I just wish my dad had been like, by the way, like dicks don't all look like that. That's the exception, not the rule. And maybe don't be so worried about it.

That's what I wish my dad had said. The first time I ever saw an uncircumcised penis was also the first time I ever watched porn. And I was so mad about how much they had taken off. the first time I ever watched porn. Oh, wow. And I was so mad about how much they had taken off. Oh, yeah. But I remember, especially for me,

the aspect of the penis I remember was like the bottom part. It was like a whole other bicep. It was just like a whole... Oh, the balance? There's like an extra muscle. Yeah, it was like an extra muscle. And I was like... And you know, when you're 14,

you have high hopes. Sure. You have high hopes. Sure. 15 must be when that thing comes in. Oh, man. And you spent all high school going, it gets bigger. I know it does.

It's going to keep going. Yeah. I only came to terms... I was nervous about it. I would measure it with a dollar bill. And I think I'm like totally average. Yeah. And I think the reason I think that is because I knew a couple breakups in high school where like the girl would go around and be like, he has a small penis.

Really? And there's been enough women who, you know, who I've wronged, who if that was like, if that was the card that they were going to play, they would have played it. Oh, they never played it on you. They never played it me so i said you know what it must be fine enough fine enough there was a video i saw recently where some guy was just going around being like what do you think is the average penis size to a bunch of women and they're like yeah six seven eight inches and then he's like okay show me what you think six inches is and they'd like take up their fingers they'd be like this is six inches and all the guys in the comments are like oh thank god oh my god they have no idea that's so amazing yeah but it's hard it's hard they should use the metric system it should they really should be more yeah you can

hit double digits baby my sex ed class in high school it was the gym teacher and she was a uh lesbian okay and she told us she was a gold star lesbian which is a term that most people don't say anymore or it's considered like yeah you know what you know what it means i don't know what it means she's never fucked a guy oh okay gold star it's considered it's like elite it's very still in the binary oh that's cool like you're better that them. That's great. No, yeah. So I remember she told us, this is the order she told us. She said, guys, size does not matter. Now, I should say with a caveat that I am a gold star lesbian, so I have no information.

It matters very much to her. But there's a degree where it doesn't matter, but then it seems to matter. I don't know. Everyone's different. And then you hear the term size queen. Let's ask the woman in the room. Not a single one. Will you hear, oh, when it's big, it hurts.

Sure. Well, it hurts me. Sure. I think it's incredible because I've been on the sketch team with Douglas and Russell and another guy named Chris. And there's a part of me where I'm like,

I don't know if we had to match, if you give me four sizes, four sizes, even in my own, I don't think I would be able to match who has what dick size. Oh, no. It's a total,

especially if you go to like, my gym was the YMCA for a long time. So it was just me and, you know, dudes in their 70s. And the differences you see in that room is astounding. But the most astounding thing is like none of them care. This is an our generation thing. Yeah. Dick size became a big thing.

These guys are just peacocking around no matter what they have to work with. Whereas I remember gym class, like middle school, you're trying to do that weird towel dance where you never actually show anything. Oh my God. I never changed. I don't know if I changed out of my underwear.

In gym class? In gym class. For me in gym class, it was the tighty-whitey to boxer. That was a big shift where I was still wearing tighty-whities for a long time. People were like the the tighty-whitey to boxer uh that was a big shift where i was still wearing tighty-whities for a long time and people were like what tighty-whities you look back you're like who the fuck how do you fucking care about my underwear i know uh it's a minefield and then and then that gradual where you're like i gotta stop wearing fucking weird boxers with a smiley

face on the front like a child. And like no button. Just like I could never, you know, waking up in the morning and just my dick is out of the boxers. I had to stop. I had a sister and a mother in the house. I couldn't walk downstairs. Like I'd have to get fully dressed in order to like be in my house. So yeah, dick size.

Yeah, it's a bad burn. It's a stupid burn. Would you be naked in front of me if we were in a locker room uh i i this is something that we we i want to talk about this is about like i have been uh um i've had a hard time taking my shirt off in public for a long time a long time i was even bigger than i am now i was like three something i lost 100 pounds nice um and only only like recently in the past 10 10 years maybe have i been okay like going to the beach and like taking my shirt off and i always do it because i like to go in the water i like to swim and and you know but it was always an issue it was always always a thing. And even now, we did an uncle function most recently where it was supposed to be a strip club

and Harry and Marv from Home Alone. This was a Christmas-themed sketch show. We were doing this big strip tease where we'd take off a jacket and there'd be another jacket. We had our crowbars and we were using... And I was like, I don't want a strip. And they'd like take off a jacket and there'd be another jacket we had like our crow bars and we were using and i was like i don't want to strip and they were like oh and i was like yeah i'm not gonna take my shirt off and uh joseph was like this is comedy baby you're not willing to take your shirt off and i felt i felt burned oh yeah i felt burned i was like yeah wow and that's listen that's why i love joseph because I think I hear where you're coming from.

He's right. He's right. He's absolutely right. But it's, it's so tough. I didn't take my shirt off until I was like paid for it. And that's when I started like, now it's like most of my job is being shirtless. Like I, that's just what my life is now. Yeah.

And it takes so long to get used to because it's something it's like we all remember getting made fun of when we were like 11 or 12 for like start of what was your weight when you were when you were young i was i mean i cracked the 200s by the time i was like 11 10 11 so i was always i was i was always heavier and then it's funny because like middle school i was super heavy and then my weight just didn't change all through high school but i grew like six inches so i like i like so i like spread out and but i still had that like that little fat kid in the back of my head now mind you because i never had a six-pack i always still had man boobs i was but i'd never like look it's hilarious

looking at like my high school now and i was like like, I was so thin. Yes. I could wear H&M. This was great. And I look back on all those pictures and I'm like, why was I so fucking? And you're like, I hated it. Like I would like, my biggest fear was like my belly poking out, like while I tried to take off my hoodie,

like while I was at my locker. And that was my biggest fear is that people would like see my tummy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like, I felt, i felt chubby in in middle school for sure you did yeah i did and i like to joke that he was never fat in his life

and listen i used to when i first started stand-up i remember i would talk about having moobs it was like it was a horrible bit okay but then i talked to some guy after a show it was like an early like stand-up revelation where like he had had estrogen levels that were extremely high. So he had C-cups. Okay. And there was a feeling of like, oh, you know what? This is not my bit to tell. Yeah.

Yeah. But this is not like this guy. First, his stories are going to be way funnier because he dealt with. But I remember when I was a kid playing shirts versus skins in soccer. I wouldn't do it. I was like, I'm on team shirts. There's no option. I would hunker down. They're like, you have to be on skins. I'm like, skins in soccer. I wouldn't do it. I was like, I'm on team shirts. There's no option. I would hunker down.

They're like, you have to be on skins. I'm like, that's cool. I won't play. I'll just go sit down. That's fine. Blake Marriott, I've called it out before. He came up to me. I was skins.

And he went to my boobs. And he went, boobie, boobie, boobie, boobie, boobie. And he did a boxing thing with my boobs. And I just, it was shocking. And I didn't keep my t-shirt on in the pool but whenever I got out I would wear the towel up here.

And I remember there was one time where these guys were like, that's how women wear their towels. That's like the 90s sitcom mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just got caught.

And maybe I wasn't that chubby but I think it was in relation to what I, and this is I think with a lot of body image, it's like it's in relation to what I wanted to be. And I had a lot of body image, it's like it's in relation to what I wanted to be. And I had a friend named Kevin and he was

a soccer kid and he was this kid with a six pack his whole middle school and all the women loved him. And he was also charming and it was that thing where it's like, oh, it's just he was a child. He was a child. We were so upset with other children for having confidence. But like I wanted

to look like that. Abercrombieie and fitch that was the biggest thing like everyone was at abercrombie like girls would come out of the mall with like their bag that just was like a headless torso of like four different guys abs yeah and like that's what we compare ourselves to i think also in like you know i i came of age in like the late 90s, early 2000s. So that was like real world. And like MTV was super hot. So everything was just like MTV spring break. Look at all these abed out bros. I was spring break and it was we didn't have it.

So it's like the fuzzy channel. It was good enough to watch. And I just remember like going through puberty and it's spring break and they're putting whipped cream on women's tits yeah like eating and you're just like them like that's all i want that's all i've ever wanted to achieve that this is just to have a strangers with big tits and i eat whipped cream and then you see the guy your your high school friend who's like boobie boobie boobie on where is that guy what's his name again uh blake marriott what's he doing hopefully he's not part of a powerful family that can bury me for the rest of my life i wonder if he like realized the first time he saw boobies how inappropriate that i hope he does it still oh because he's a

marriott they pretend that they like it yeah yeah is he a marriott is he that marriott he's that marriott oh yeah no we really shouldn't be talking about him no consequences of his life i haven't been able to find it. And look, we, I'm talking like, this is not like a mature, this is in second grade or fourth grade.

I don't hold ill will, but I remember it. Oh, absolutely. I remember it every night and I can't get it up when I'm at a Marriott. I'll look at my like middle school bully on Facebook who I have not spoken to in 20 years. Really? Just like hate. Look at him. Like you work. Really? I just hate looking at him like,

you work at a golf course now. Which is also a great job, by the way. I'm not saying that's bad at all. I golf sometimes. That's a really nice job if you get paid for it. I just find a way to hate him. As a male model, though, you do get to judge most. You get to be like,

I'm a male model. You do something else and that's pathetic but i imagine yeah there's a caveat on there oh there's a lot of caveats like my favorite thing is like a plus size model you know like it's like that always it's like i have an asterisk like i took steroids from baseball like even your bill even your bully who might be looking at your things like oh he's a model oh yeah he's a plus size model and then he falls asleep and he's a falls asleep and he's just plus size model and then he falls asleep and he's a falls asleep and he's just like a happy guy oh i have like i'll have comments on like my tiktoks

or something like that and like i remember i did something in response to someone else and i was just like listen man i've been in vogue like two or three times and they're like well you're in vogue as like part of an inclusion thing and i'm just like how did you get into vocal yeah they just quickly get buried by like i have very supportive fans i'm very very lucky and it's also very weird to call them fans like i don't i think that's the first time i've said that out loud sure strangers on the internet are nice to me let's put it that way just a caveat they're plus size fans they are so They're plus-sized fans. They are plus-sized fans. They're plus-sized. So. Kick off an exciting football season with BetMGM,

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Limitations apply. Must be a beauty insider. See terms at sephora.com for complete details. So, okay. Sometimes it's tough to talk about modeling, where it's just like, okay, you're a good-looking man. Thank you. But you know that. I mean, I do now.

I didn't before I modeled. So really. Do you think you grew into it? Or do you think like in high school, like were you a good looking guy? I never once thought so. Mind you, I always had like from like 14 or 15 onward, I always had a girlfriend,

but it was always a long-term one. And I always convinced myself in my head that they were with me because I was, like, funny and bought things. Like, it was never, it was always, like, this, I do a better, unfortunately, that captures my current, I'm funny and I buy things.

You're like, I do better things and she's willing to deal with the less attractive person. I feel like this story is going to get more like, that he never had any problems in his life. I had a lot of girlfriends. I was very much because I was terrified of women, even though I had girlfriends.

I dated every girl I ever dated for like four to five years because I was just like, no one else is ever going to like me. So no matter how badly this is going, I just have to hang on because it's never happening again. So what did you go to college for um originally uh the first time i went to college it was i tried to double major in uh biology and theater which apparently you have to go to school for like 90

years and it still doesn't matter so i then transferred out i went to a small college in connecticut called albertus magnus and i transferred to the uh in the. I went to a small college in Connecticut called Albertus Magnus, and I transferred in the city. I went to the American Academy of Dramatic Art and got an associate's degree in theater. Is that AMDA? No, it's ADA. So they're not similar at all. There's a stupid rivalry.

I don't think the two schools have ever met each other. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. Oh, it's not offensive at all. The rivalry between ADA and AMDA. It's one's a musical school and one's a oh okay oh i see so that's like they're very and i went to ada and they're the oldest conservatory in the western world they're very i mean they have they are i went to a conservatory too so pretentious in a great way i loved it again so pretentious like they're very as soon as another like alumni gets nominated for anything your email like floods and they're like now 294 emmy nominated students and

you're like all right a lot most of those was one person over like nine of them are robert redford so i don't know if you can keep counting it is it is my dream for my college to who by the way my college instagram account, I asked them what was performing in Miami. And I said, could you share this on the thing? They shared it and then immediately deleted it. And I thought, hmm. And I wrote them, I said, hey, is everything okay?

And they never got back. Whoa. So in a way, they've burned me first. But I always have a fantasy where they try to use me as like uh one of our alumni was on james cord and i write them i say take me off this right now oh that's my take me off this right now you have you have no ownership to my success that's my first school prevented it that's my first college the one i transferred out of i'm like i'm waiting to get big enough for them to be like our alumni not alumni and i don't have any degree i have 27 credits like sitting in a vault somewhere at your

school i had a casting director workshop type thing that used one of my like tv credits like he did this and then was on cbs's blue bloods and it was not because of that class and i was i didn't say anything because you know yeah but i was like i was like fuck you fuck you it's it's very frustrating so we met in a scene with Do you remember which one it was? Terry Schreiber. Terry Schreiber. We met in Terry Schreiber's scene study class. And I remember I had very little interaction with you because you would show up for maybe half of every class.

I was in an acting company after college, and I was done, not artistically, but I was emotionally done with classes. Oh, I totally. I couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't watch other people act. I was totally done as well. And then I got reinvigorated in that class. So that class is, I love Terry Schreiber. He is a very methodically slow teacher.

He's still alive. He is still alive. He's like 97. I don't know if he's still teaching, but he still alive i because i did check in from time to time i had a point where when i i was like oh my god i spent 90 of my life watching bad actress act yeah yeah watching people do that same scene from glass menagerie and that class was five hours long so it was so long it was like you gotta be you gotta be in that passion part of your life such in like the the culty theater part of my life because i had just got

i just moved back to the city after doing a tour and i was like getting back into it and i was gonna and i'd done a children's tour tour so i was like this is where i get really serious and this is where i'm gonna break into broadway and all this stuff so I took that class so seriously and like Jamarco showed up and he was great and we like watched him do some exercise in the scenes but every like the first couple classes like I gotta leave early and we're like he's transitioning five hours is a long class and after like two or three months it was like he would pop in do his scene and then believe and I would just get so at the time upset but that's because again

it was very pretentious it was very like that's that class meant so much to me and like no but you're right we're in there but you're right too i understand you do that but i do that but i do that but that's also why i could afford the pocket i mean like a lot of that part of the life i'll say like in your defense now because it was one of those things where i i found i did that a lot especially in theater i would get very precious about everything and everything was the most moving thing in the world because when you're doing a theater class or anything like that you're making yourself so unbelievably vulnerable sure people have been in class with you for like months and months and months you start to like really get close to them and so like you take it very seriously and i

remember being like kind of upset that you just kept like ducking in and ducking out and wouldn't watch that would have driven me mind you most of the class that would have driven me fucking nuts at least four nuts at least like four and a half hours of the class is you just watching other people and he was also a super old school teacher so if he saw like your phone light go off or something he would like stop the scene and be like take it outside and like he was he was great boy but then i remember like being upset and then seeing an advertisement for you were doing your friend's show and i was like oh fuck that i mean if he's doing that yeah don't be in scene study class don't do it like when i realized that you were you were yeah i think that was around the time of the friend yeah when i realized

you were working on stuff then i was kind of like oh because then i quickly like just as you were doing like your friend show and whatnot i started booking modeling gigs and i started to have to be like i have to miss this class and i gotta miss this class and all of a sudden i'm like oh now i'm the dick that's showing up for like an hour at a time yeah and missing rehearsals with scene part because that was the worst part is everyone took it so seriously that you had to not only do your five hours of class you had to meet at least like two or three times a week with your scene partner for like three hours and rehearse and it was i think there's just i mean first that it's tough to have those kind of studios in new york because there's so many things to do yeah i think it's like it's so hard because the realities of the business make me go like, oh, you got to find work the moment you can.

But I also can totally appreciate the like, let's have a fucking commune and like learn and get intense and get deep. And they're really at odds with each other. And I think in those type of studios, as much as I loved it, are just so back in the day where people had like, you know, $50 rents in Greenwich Village and could get by by doing... And people paid attention to those. When the Terry Schreiber did... When the Actor's Studio did the play in the 70s,

every casting director was there. And you would then get work after that. Sure, sure. And now it's like no one gives a shit about anything. And I did the Terry Schreiber like short plays that like agents are going to come to this and this is how I'm going to get buckwalled. And they're like, no, they've never come to one of these.

But I have to ask, do you remember consciously being like, I'm not fucking sticking around for this shit? Because I do think that there's like a thing of like... I remember being like, I wanted, I missed acting. Yeah. But I knew I was like half in, half out. And I was like, this is what I'm going to do. Because I was in an acting company in Philly. It ended disastrously.

And I like, that was the full thing. And I used to do at Circle in the Square, this teacher. Well, you know, like one of the, every student would get, you do one exercise every three classes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like one exercise was everyone would stand in a circle and this person would pick like a bar from a song. And they would just say it again and again

as they circled. So, you know, they'd go around, I hope you don't mind. Oh my God. I hope you don't mind. And you're doing this for 45 minutes in my brain and I'm already ADD to begin with. I'm going crazy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't and I'm sleepy and I, so yes, I do remember that i was very much the last big thing i did i did larry moss which was like a master class he's like leonardo dicaprio's and that was like the last it was like two days eight hours each day yeah yep and i did it and you know i got up there my one time and he made me cry because it was an older man going i'm proud of you yeah yeah and i'm like i can never recreate. I think that's why I was so defensive about Terry because he was this grandfatherly figure.

And because they create cults. Every time I watch a documentary about a cult, every single time, there's a version of Meisner's repeating. Every single time. I am so glad you brought this up. Nexus is like, you're ugly. I'm ugly. You're ugly.

I'm ugly. And it's always, every single time. Absolutely. It's a cult. Me and my wife sit here and watch cult documentaries. You guys worship this guy, Terry Shriver. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had Wendy Ward was my Terry Shriver.

Yeah. Yeah. You worship them. Every time we've ever seen a cult documentary, because me and my wife are both theater people, we've just been like, I can make anybody cry. Like, give me the right exercise and type of moments. Like I can make anybody cry. Like give me the right like exercise and type of moments.

Like in people, it's same with like not even just cults in like, you know, super like my wife's from Georgia and the Bible Belt. It's like they're speaking in tongues and they're falling out and they believe in Jesus. And I'm like, I could make you do that with like intense eye contact, repetition for a while. Like these are all acting exercises and people are just experiencing emotion for the first time. But sometimes people need it i think what's interesting is just like people do need it who are not in the arts they need in some respect we talked about in and of itself did you see that it's on hulu it was a magician yeah you loved it oh i know what you're talking about i haven't seen it but i know it's so good so good corny maybe but it's a trick i mean but at the end he does like a thing where he like

goes to each person and the magic is he you picked a card at the beginning about what kind of person you were. And at the end, he knows what person you picked based on whatever. Obviously, it's a magic trick. But he goes up to people who have never been in an acting class and goes, You're a survivor. And they go, They're all bubbling. You're a lion

and some man who's never felt in his for the last 40 years who's buried everything inside someone says something to him with eye contact and it's the greatest thing to ever happen oh yeah and sometimes I think about like the action classes and I'm like oh there's a version of this that

regular people need too somehow a feeling class there's a version of this that regular people need to yeah somehow and people want to be seen a feeling class sure get to be on a stage and have people applaud you that's what most of theater classes are is just learning how to access emotions with any amount of control whatsoever rather than them just exploding out of you yeah and that's all that's all it is is like so i've i remember after especially terry's i cry so often now and i never ever did i wish i could more every day like during during even when i was in conservatory and whatnot like i never cried terry whatever

happened in terry's class broke me where now i'm just like i'll start crying at every movie i cry at commercials i cry at everything but then i can like fucking pussy but then i can like snap back into it like it's it's like it's it's not a a traumatizing thing whereas if like my dad cried that would be like an unspoken thing for like the next yeah yeah have you ever told it on this no i haven't you tell your dad um well it is christmas time so So my Jewish father, every year he watches It's a Wonderful Life. My father watches It's a Wonderful Life every single... And when it's over, he stands up, he walks into his room, he locks the door, and he cries for the first time and the last time all year.

Oh, that's my father. Exactly. He cries at two specific points. Yeah. He cries when, obviously at the end when the angel gets his ring and all that stuff. Sure, sure, sure. But all of a sudden when the drunk old chemist is beating, he's like, don't hit my sore ear, Mr. Gower.

Yeah, yeah. And then he starts like fucking boring. And that's it. That's his once a year. That's his once a year thing. Now, why does that movie do it for your dad i don't know i don't know and i just i remember being confused i mean talk about like emotional confusion for a kid yeah it's like am i supposed to hide like he goes behind the door

he doesn't want to show me he doesn't want to show you know he was crying you what did you hear i think it was like my mother would be like he's this is when he's emotional you know um and and then later i knew that that's what it was and it's uh it's that's serious i mean he comes from he fought in the vietnam war like he's he he had that's a generation that our parents Our parents' generation. At 18, he was flying a helicopter. You were... I was knee-deep in my own cum. 18 years old. Two vastly different experiences. I still had a Game Boy. Like, my dad clearly avoids...

I once tried to get my dad to watch Sopranos because I was like, you'll love this. It's Italians. And he... Tony's, like, trying to find a home for his mom. And my dad was like, I can't, I can't watch this.

And I'm like, I really think if you did, you'd be a better person. I think if you just let yourself, whatever it is that's coming up, just, if you would watch this, we would have better Thanksgivings.

Oh my God. I wonder about men, that generation. Just cause like, If you would watch this, we would have better Thanksgivings. Oh, my God. I wonder about men, that generation. Just because, like, is it really better to experience and talk about things the way we do? Or are we just, like, complainers? I think we'll find out. Are we just complaining? We'll find out when the next Civil War comes and we have to go into battle. I think when we're in our 50s and 60s and we do, like we do like a poll of like the level of heart disease and the amount of strokes had

that's when we'll realize if this was good what we were doing or bad because i know like that's a good point it must be good it must it has to be it has i feel doing it i feel chiller about it like i feel i don't want to walk around like tensed up all the time yeah yeah yeah i we it was funny because i when we hung out with your dad where it's like you you want to you want it you sometimes you go to these older men and you want to be like have you ever thought about like being happy for like just an hour i know you ever thought about like and it's like part of us it's like well there's no way that's gonna work yeah yeah they weren't they weren't waiting for someone to tell them it's it's too late so ingrained and like try try doing like i'm a plus size male model and my dad loves me and he supports me but i go against like everything he was ever raised to believe

like same with my mom like i grew up doing like weight watchers and atkins and all that stuff and now it's like that i've come to my own like body positive realizations. I try to like, whether it's my mom or anyone else, I try to be like, but you know, like what your body looks like actually doesn't matter. And she's like,

you're trying to undo like 60 years of programming right now. And I think it's like, we, I've learned at least with the older folks in my life, just be like, Oh, I'm never, there's no dent that's going to be made.

My parents, I'm lucky that my's no dent that's going to be made. I'm lucky that my parents are as progressive as they are. And I'm not going to make them anymore. When it comes to body stuff, I've been trying to, you know, I'm neurotic about my weight. And I try to think about like what my parents, let me do a couple of quick stories.

So my mom has always been, she was bulimic. Okay. And she will not show me pictures from her youth also pre-nose job I asked her the other day I was like I'd love to see

a picture of my nose on your face and she said you know she's like no you will never see a picture then and Parviz is just like

just show me a fucking just show me a fucking picture just show me a picture I don't care if you're fat just show me this picture I have to have her on the podcast but she she also describes where she lost a lot of weight Son, just show me a picture. I don't care if you're fat. Just show me this picture. I have to have her on the podcast, but she also describes where she lost a lot of weight and she resented people.

She got all this male attention suddenly and she felt a deep kind of undercurrent of cynicism. Like, now you fucking want to be my friend. So she tells me this story all the time. When I was a kid, she was on the Stairmaster. I don't remember this. She was on the Stairmaster. a kid, she was on the stair. I don't remember that she was on the stair master. She had one like in,

in the bedroom or whatever. And she like complained about like, she didn't get enough steps in or that day or, or it wasn't working or whatever. And I started crying apparently very young. I was like, you, you're so skinny and you always talk about your weight.

I don't remember this, but she's brought it up so many times. I'm like, that probably left an impression. Yeah. So the, the other part is my father worries about his own weight and he is a classic, classic. If he is feeling insecure about his weight, he projects it in a way where this is where I feel like we are better.

Because I'm like, how can you not see what you're doing? And he surprised me. I was in Philly with my girlfriend at the time. And my dad surprised me on my birthday by coming up to Philly. There's no surprise. I could want less than a surprise visit. And it's my birthday. I went out to get a steak and cheese at my favorite steak and cheese place.

And I was wearing, like, basketball shorts and a wife beater. And my dad, like, kind of was like, put on a couple pounds after the meal. putting on a couple pounds after the meal and i snapped in a way that not a good way to snap where i said i said i will lay down in the middle of this road right now and let a car like just immediate to suicide no i will kill myself in front of you for this comment you've made to me yeah and uh uh so that's i i think what would whenever anyone comments on your weight there's like i promise you i know whatever the fuck you're about to say i know i've thought it i've thought it way worse than you i'm i'm i'm like it always drove me nuts when people would be like oh you're you're fat so you don't you don't care about your appearance and i'm just like i weigh myself

four times a day i weigh myself before and after every poop to see how much i've lost i like it would go through i also had an eating disorder all through high school and i mean i really what kind of eating disorder i'm just learning like through therapy that i had an eating disorder because apparently you're not supposed to take like 20 to 30 diet pills and laxatives a day and that's what i was doing um really 20 to 30 handfuls like literal handful hydroxycut xenogyn um just full-on laxatives like and it just so you're just shitting all day all day all day to this like and then but also like didn't really click to me but like oh man that's what was happening i just thought i was getting skinnier and did it did it work uh now that

I look back at my high school photos. Yeah. Yeah. It was way thinner. You heard it here first. It's not an endorsement. I had an, I just started having regular bowel movements like last week. Did you have any, were there any side effects or just a lot of people have a very hard time, um, like digesting fat and oils? because there was one it was the first fda approved uh diet pill it was called ally and it was just a fat blocker it just made it so your body cannot digest or process fat in any way and it would like come out in like oil slicks like when you use the bathroom oil slicks it was what do you mean like like just like like exxon valdez like just sitting on top of the bowl.

Remember Olestra? Yes, I remember. That made you have oily shits. That was the light-lazed potato chips. Yeah, the potato chips that had this weird oil on it, and it made you have like oily shits. And I think I took that stuff for so long. Like my body still is like just learning how to digest food again.

Diet food. is it still around are people still doing this frequently i don't know if ally is but i they still have hydroxycut and like every walgreens you go to which is basically just like mini speed like it's just a it's just like an accelerant so you're just doing this in high school your parents don't know um they knew to a point i mean they didn't know that I was, they definitely didn't know I was taking laxatives. And like my mom had seen like bottles of hydroxy cut and been like, what are you doing? But I think it was, you didn't need, this is the craziest part. You didn't need to be 18. You didn't need a license. Well, it's marketed under like fitness. Yeah.

It's in the vitamin section. It's at the GNC. Exactly. So you could just go and buy it. We are giving full instructions. I know. Don't do this. If you're a kid listening to this podcast, what are you doing? I've talked about this before, but I'm like, I am setting a blooper. Especially you would be like, did it work? And I'm just like, yeah, look at these pictures.

But I was so miserable and so unhealthy. And again, just now with probiotics of two handfuls of Metamucil a day, am I like normally digesting food again? Did you feel bad too? Like did you not feel good? I mean, I don't think I felt good my entire like teenage years. I mean, every shit was an emergency. Every single one. I had to plan my whole life about it.

Absolutely. I've been there. I will say as a side note, I do, I am sometimes annoyed by, I did a, one of, we have these live episodes

and I posted one with someone who was talking about the downsides of eating disorders. They had a lot of eating disorders and that was the first post Instagram has ever taken down right away because it said eating disorder. Yeah.

And sometimes eating disorder falls into one of those trigger warning categories where sometimes I'm like, the news will be like uh 30 000 kids were bombed by our president and they they're all dead now trigger warning we're about to talk about eating disorders yep and i'm like the crowd i i i can't oh yeah i can't yeah i and that's talk about a thing where I feel like old, where I'm like, shut up. You can't deal with talking about the eating disorder.

Good luck with life. Well, that's the thing. I'm like, I talk about it. Not every chance I get, but I'm very open about it because I'm just like, listen,

I was in like, there was no such thing as a male eating disorder when I was a kid. I didn't even know that I had a D eating disorder. Like I, I was taking pills that wasn't i wasn't you know bulimic i wasn't shoving my my finger down my throat i wasn't like i mean i was like going for like multiple day fasts but now like i didn't know that was like anorexic behavior until i was realizing that because cost like not costco walmart used to sell something

called like the 48-hour miracle diet which was just a jug and it was like first it was like on the end cap as soon as you walked into walmart and it was just like it's like the master cleanse it was like orange it was like lemon juice and cayenne pepper and the reason it worked is because you didn't eat food for 48 hours yeah yeah of course and you just shit your brains out for that 48 hours and you're like look at all the weight i've lost yeah um i i i learned that i had a um a bit of a eating disorder i was closet eating i was waking up in the middle of the night and cooking like meals for myself while and then cleaning up so that no one would know. Like when I was a kid. Like frying up tortilla chips. Making my own tortilla chips.

Because my parents withheld some snacks. The only thing we had was diet snacks. Like Snackwell's cookies. And were they doing this specifically for you? Or did they have eating stuff too? My mother has. They both have eating things. They both have eating things.

But I, of course inherited them um because it's all their fault i mean hey ma i mean it's it's a it's a modeled behavior but it's also because it was what was fed to them their whole lives like that's the problem like getting older and realizing your parents are as fucked up or more fucked up than you are like it's not their fault they did they and especially like i know me raising me any complaints i could have i was like now that i have a kid i have no idea what i'm doing they're doing the best they can they don't give you in like it's very cliche to be like they don't give you a construction manual but all i had to do with my daughter

was i had to sign three different papers that promised i wouldn't shake her that's all it did i'd like she popped out never shake a baby and they're like don't shake the baby and i'm like i won't shake the baby i promise not to they're like now watch this video about not shaking a baby and sign that you did watch the video and you won't shake you know what that tells me that tells me that the need to shake a baby is like strong it is have you ever felt that have you ever felt i've never shaken my daughter but when they you know they don't sleep for a year and you just start to lose and then you remember the third contract there was oh thank god for that third contract there were definitely times where like my muscles

tense and i was like oh you almost did it you almost did it just wow i think it's obviously a thing yeah it's obviously a thing and like it's like it dawns on your head you're like that's why they told me not to do it because like i love you're like who would ever do that but when you haven't slept for like two and a half months straight i'm like oh man you just start to lose where you are one time i called my wife because like she could my it was like her first night out in two months and uh she was doing a play reading and i told her she had to leave because it was like on first night out in two months and uh she was doing a play reading and i told her she had to leave because it was like on hour three of my daughter crying she's like two months old and i left her a voicemail just with my daughter screaming in the background and i was like i don't

know i don't know what to do i've done all the things i can't were you scared like were you terrified i was like three hours truly three hours three hours non-stop and it wasn't like and now and they tell and like any parent will tell you, that's not uncommon. Babes can get colicky. They can do that. We're debating having a second one right now. And I've just been like, if they could hand me a three-year-old, that would be great. Because my daughter's three.

And it's awesome. It's fun. The first year is so bad. You can shake those kids. You can shake them. Good old three. It's locked in there. She's good. she's got a very

strong neck you're thinking about having a baby right what the fuck is wrong with you what the fuck is wrong with you um okay so all right so so so now i know a little bit of your story and into into modeling so yeah you know that you're you're how does the eating disorder how did the pills curb down um in in in theater school in when i was in when i came when i moved to new york i had a theater director it's very cheesy but i had a theater director kind of like stop me and be like you know it's okay to be a big guy right and i was like huh and he's like and no one had ever even thought of saying something like that to me it was like that moment it was that like cult moment where i was like instant tears and i'm just like what what do you mean it's okay

he's like people like big guys you like people will like you as the big guy and i was like what i don't know what to do and i like rethought my whole acting career because how did they know i was out you they were directing me in a play um called loose knit I don't remember the late Lillian Hellman let's say that's her I don't think that's her but anyway um and I guess I was just sucking I just wasn't getting it like I wasn't doing well like I'd gotten cast in the show and I was just couldn't connect with whatever because my character um had like cheated on his wife and was kind of like a ladies man and i'd never been that so i didn't understand like the attract like there were lines about how women were always hitting on me and i was like i don't know what any of this is about and then he

like just told me he's like oh no they'll like you it's fine like he's like yeah you're great and i and girls like big guys and people like big guys and people who accept you as a big guy and i was just like broke down in the middle there's a level little rehearsal there's a level to it though oh yeah in terms of the big guy i just want to on behalf of other big people yeah like we're always comparing ourselves to other big people right you look at a big guy you're like oh i'm not that fast russell russell uh uh has he talks about you know russell again i feel uncomfortable saying the word fat and i think obviously but russell would describe himself as fat yeah and he says that when he's with uh fatter people he's amazed how immediately

he goes like they're fat yes and i'm not there's a there's a judgment it's a it's like a self-hate thing it really is i remember i used to so my one of my best friends is also my cousin and he, um, he was very, very heavy growing up. I could talk about it. He, he got gastric bypass.

He lost 270 pounds. Like he was very, very big growing up. So, but I considered myself big. So if I ever said anything about being fat around him, he would get furious. Sure.

And, and like, it's it's i think there's some gatekeeping even especially in the modeling community because i'm i'm what is because they are small fats there's mid-size sure there's big fats it is in the fat acceptance terminology we've come up with in the fat oh that's they say fats big fats big fat so no literally so that is crazy in the fat acceptance community the big thing is taking stigma out of the word fat because fat is as far as like it doesn't have by webster's like definition a negative connotation it is a descriptor it is a adjective and like there there was you could look at like yourself i mean never call another person fat but i would like self-identify as fat you never call another person fat just because you don't

know what their thought process is on it people call me fat all the time now couldn't care less because it's like i've accepted the term and understood it but i would never and because i don't know where they are on an acceptance journey i don't know if that There were times in my life where if you called me fat, I was done. You crumbled. Of course. But do you ever think it's a fool's errand where sometimes there's like a fat. It's okay to say. Yeah.

As if we're going to make it tall. We're going to make the term fat tall. And that's what a lot of it is. This word is steeped in a history of negativity. That's why the terms like plus size came out like in the modeling world so there was plus size when i first started it still is it's kind of like reverted back to plus size um but a lot of people didn't like plus size i mean i found a quote from myself in an article like seven years ago saying i didn't like the term plus size um and having some

fanciful reason of why it wasn't acceptable um because what was your reason do you remember i think it was because plus means extra no one's an extra person you just are who you are and i had a lot of sound bites when i first started because i didn't know what i was talking about and i was very i was very i was never like formally media trained but i was very good at media i I knew the sound bites. I knew what people wanted to hear. And most of my career was getting on morning shows and talking about it. So I knew what terms to say. Oh, wow.

And when I started, they had changed the names of... Women's modeling wasn't the plus size division anymore. It was the curve division. And men, we weren't big and tall. We were brawn. And it's still... Brawn. Like brawnywny man like curve and brawn are very attractive words and that's the thing they're very nice words and in another agency they called their big and tall guys the titans that was their thing so like we're getting a little carried away that was a little carried away i liked brawn brawn i'm like yeah

that's fine the superheroes exactly they're definitely not and i think and i think a lot of it was just trying to understand that like most there's still a lot of people that are like you call them plus size or you call them fat it would hurt them and that would if you wanted to bring them into the community especially fashion where they're like listen i found when i finally had clothes that like fit me correctly for the first time it seems very very simple but it changed my whole like every layer of self-confidence i had improved because i was like oh this is the right size this actually looks big i'm not like i used to i crammed myself into small like like extra large or large t-shirts for years and like i never wore a t-shirt oh see i was never what were you wearing

button downs but i would wear a full suit. I'd wear a full suit if you let me. If you look at pictures of me in college, I'm wearing a sport coat, a button down, and a tie. I wear like everything. Was it partly because like- Layers, baby. Layers. With button downs.

I'm layering right now. I wore the same Harley Davidson sweatshirt for every day of seventh grade. Like I never, never, like it was the same. It would be a thousand degrees out. Harley, no, no, no. seventh grade like i never never like it was the same they would be a thousand degrees out harley russell mentioned he doesn't he doesn't like uh like xxxl yeah like just the like quadruple like it's just like the it feels like could you just yeah could you could you do it like starbucks and make it italian there are some brands the t-shirt i'm wearing right now is called um it's by a brand called one bone and theirs are they have like a chart on their thing like i'm wearing right now is called um it's by a brand called one bone and theirs are they have

like a chart on their thing like i'm wearing a size one they go from like it's like small it's like instead of small medium large it's like minus two minus one zero one up to like six or something like that without the xls put in and for some i think the problem is when you try to make everything more like, um, less offensive, like terminology, people stop knowing what the fuck you're talking about. That's why a lot of it is just reverted back to be like,

this is a plus size model. This is like, I don't tell, I don't, when I introduce myself, I don't say I'm a brawn model. I say I'm a male plus size model. And half the time I just,

I dropped the male too, because it's like, you know, look at me. Like, you're're not like no one's confused like yeah it's it's tricky and it's just it's it's i always think it's tricky to like try to be progressive in especially when it comes to like casting yes because casting i've always felt like it's casting breakdowns it's similar to porn in the sense that you need to figure out a specific thing quick oh yeah and when you're going with speed feelings aren't that important so you gotta rush you need a person that looks like something and you're like i need fat i need

fat tall one time i saw the same way with porn you're like i need big black cock yeah you want that specifically so you don't have time to be like i want you know uh uh you don't have time to mince words and uh you know not you know especially any tv project when once once the leads are cast they're like no no this is shooting fucking tomorrow and you have to fit this exact costume i already have you have to do this exact thing i just said i mean it's the same in fashion all the time. Half of my jobs are within like a two-day notice. But when you did, so your big kind of break, you did, what is, it's not, there's stock photo and then there's, what's this next level? E-commerce. E-commerce.

So that was my first, that's just when you are on the website and you see like, when you click on, ooh, that looks like a good shirt. And they show you just a guy in a white background standing there in a t-shirt. Wow. That was me. And that was like, it is the second lowest rung in the fashion world. I've done a stock photo. I did that stock.

So it's stock. And then it's e-commerce. And even when I did it, the fact that there was a plus size guy was so unheard of that all of a sudden this was 2015. Did you consider yourself plus size did you i considered myself uh fatter like did you know the modeling term like or did you just think oh i booked a shoot i thought i just booked a shoot like i so it was set up by my commercial agent at the time

who only who who we with i was with um steinberg okay i was with steinberg and they um my manager um uh she was friends with a makeup artist on like and who had wrote like on facebook like hey looking for a guy to fit a 42 pant for tomorrow sure and i got a text and she's like what size pants are you and i was like what what does that matter and then and then she's like i think i have put a little more detail i know i was just in the scene and she didn't text me after it was always an email so i was like whoa whoa what's what's going on so she's like i got a casting you can go to it and i was like i wear like a 42 at the time and she's like if i'm honest with myself i wear a 42 yeah yeah i mean that's another thing is learning to wear the correct

size oh my god i spent years just like just bulging muffin topping out because i was like i'm still 38. yeah i'm like is your camera recording do you see the red light there yeah um so they so anyway i went and did a casting i thought it was just shoot i was like and you know i paid like 600 bucks i'm like this is awesome i'm so pumped great yeah for day work i'm like this is amazing i went in did the casting nothing fit like hilarious like everything was like a medium like they were like i was like i can't wear this and they're like just try it my nightmare and i like just put it on and it would look like kind of like a sports bra like my belly's just fully out and they're like no okay so what size do you normally wear i'm like

like a 2xl normally and they're like oh okay and they're like and that is i'm like it's a medium it's like okay no problem i get undressed and they're like all okay and they're like and that is i'm like it's a medium it's like okay no problem i get undressed at and they're like all right have a good one you know castings they're just like all right bye so i leave and i'm like well that was a fucking waste and then i get a phone call like by the time i get to the bottom of the elevator she's like you're working tomorrow and i was like she's like you're working tomorrow and shave your beard i had not where i had a beard in here there's one round of photos of me at target. Cause that's who the client turned out. Yeah.

Um, where I don't have a beard. And then like, they quickly erased all of them. Cause they, I look like a child. It is horrifying. Like I've lost a plus size child of that.

Just a real, every, every job I've ever had where I had to shave my beard. I've instantly lost. Really? I was on, I booked the pilot for limitless uh-huh and i played the main character's brother and the pilot and i did the pilot and that's where

about to film they're like oh the director wants you to shave your beard because he's supposed to be like a loser he's like a five o'clock shadow you're supposed to be like the upstanding med school brother and i was like you've never seen my face uh none of my headshots have my face i haven't shown my face like my bottom chin since i was like you know never seen my face uh none of my headshots have my face i haven't shown my face like my bottom chin since i was like you know 19 years old yeah you don't want to do this and there and it became like i had my agent call and it became a back and forth and my agents like the director says shave or leave and i was like this is my first network anything i'm fucking shaving of course of course oh and i shave and i come out and the director looks at me and then

he starts like grumbling to the other people and like it was too late i was gonna be in the pilot but it was like jesus i was the only main character recast oh i was the only one and i want bad i want to pretend that it was big i mean maybe just in my heart i'm like it's because of the beard i hope i just wasn't terrible and they're like this freaking guy but so yeah it was that was fun

so anyway they that is brutal did you see the pilot huh do you get to see the pilot yeah they cut a lot of my parts out

like I'm in there like I'm sitting there and I say a couple things you're in the they didn't reshoot your scenes physically in the pilot did the brother

new brother new brother well there's two brothers one brother stayed the brother new brother and the new brother do well there's two brothers one brother stayed the same other brother became patrick dara which is like he's like a broadway guy man that is i listen i've never been in a pilot uh but that is the nightmare that is the nightmare oh yeah i also ruined that audition like that this is tv is so horrifically shallow i literally booked it because i kind of looked like the main guy there was nothing else i forgot my lines midway through like this is the audition the audition i tried to go without my script and then they cut me out

the audition i had it like locked in i was like good to go and he's like we're gonna start in the middle and i was like i can't do that i fucking, I know this page from the very start. So I was like, where's that? He's like, you didn't bring your script in. I was like, I was trying to look cool. Like I have this, I don't remember where you want me to start. So you do the Staples thing. Target.

Target. Staples. Oh my God. I worked at Staples when I was 16 years old. A guy, if I'm correct, a guy from, he started Chubster. Oh, yeah. He's the one who wrote the first article. That's Bruce Sturgill.

You did do a research. I'm very impressed. And it blows up. Yeah. Chubster at the time was a very like small, it was like a big and tall blog, essentially, for big and tall clothing. Cool. Someone posted like an article of like, did Target sneak in a plus size guy into their

lineup? And I saw it on Facebook and I wrote to him. I was like, hey, that's me. cool um someone posted like an article of like did target sneak in a plus size guy into their lineup and i saw it on facebook and i saw i wrote to him i was like hey that's me were you fully comfortable at this point like in my mind there is a version where you get a modeling gig and an article comes out and it's like it's like oh it's okay it's recording here okay okay um what is this uh don't use what are you doing? Okay. All the ways. There's technical difficulties. There's some version in my mind where like you do a modeling gig and then an article comes out that's like, did someone sneak a fatso in one of these Target ads and then

a picture of you? And it's like a fucking, what the fuck? I thought I just had a gig. What the fuck is this guy doing here? Oh, there were, there were stuff like that. Really? Oh yeah. So like that article. You doing here? Oh, there were stuff like that. Really? Oh, yeah. So, like, that article blew up.

Oh, yeah. So, that article blew up, and then it got, like, picked up by, like, all the big online, like, BuzzFeed and Huffington Post and all that. And then, like, by the end of the week, I was on Good Morning America. Like, it was wild from, like, a $600 gig. Like, I had only done it once. Like, it was, like, from, like, a $600 gig. It would be funny to have you talk

i had this my uh she was opening for me ariel elias a comedian oh i know i guess yeah yeah she was opening for me that was the gig where she got the beer can thrown at her oh okay and and she blew up like yeah yeah yeah to talk to people about like that week oh it's nonsense it's anyone i know who like said like a sudden like virality or pop of fame like oh it makes no sense because you also have no money like this is all happening you're like a semi-famous person can't pay rent like it is brutal and um yeah did you like good morning america and then the um president of img models like dm'd me i'd started an instagram like that week and i was like and what did they talk to you about on Good Morning America?

Because you're an actor who booked a print job. Yeah, that's all it was. What did they say? They're like Whoa, even bigger in person. Hello, welcome. I'm sitting next to you now and you're a big boy. Let's get another chair in here. I was like, what are you talking about? They started making stuff up and they're like

I understand that you got the confidence to model from your wife and I was like, what? That's an amazing fact to stuff up. And they're like, I understand that you got the confidence to model from your wife. And I was like, what? That's an amazing fact to make up. They just said that. And I was so like media savvy even at that time. Because I dreamed about being a half famous person my whole life. Of course. I knew exactly what I was going to do.

I just rolled into the bullshit. You were yes and a. Oh, yes. Exactly. I was just like improv-ing. I'm like, yes, she's an amazing woman. And she sat me down course exactly i was just like improv and i was like i'm like yes she's an amazing woman and she sat me down and she was just like i don't understand you don't know the power you have to help people and i just started making shit up god because she was just saying i mean it was this was and she just got fired for um uh having an

affair with her uh co-worker that was that one amy robach was the one who she's the one who she fired her he he's on leave i think they're back they were both on leave he's back i think it's messy i think you didn't follow any of this no it's an amazing affair between anchors on a tv show that's like two of the good morning america anchors were having an affair anyway cool um she was very kind great tv with the exception of just totally making things up she was very very nice um and that kind of With the exception of just totally making things up. She was very, very nice. And that kind of, so after Good Money America, IMG called. I signed to IMG.

They made a big announcement of me. A thousand more articles came out because WWD made an announcement. And then Vogue made an announcement. And then I was in Cosmopolitan. Never getting paid. I have no money. All this is happening. And I'm like going to fancy parties and meeting like Tyson Beckford and like all these people.

Yeah. And then all of a sudden GQ, GQ Britain, not GQ. GQ did like a nice little online write up of me. And then GQ Britain came out with a hit piece on me on like how it was disgusting and like destroying like masculinity and how it was an affront to what men should be. And all you've done so far is the the target i have not done anything else other than e-commerce for target wow all this is happening i'm being and i'm like this is and they and i remember every article they're like he landed a target campaign i'm like not a campaign not again like two days worth of shooting i wore like 80 different t-shirts the first day the wrong size came so they had to cut them all up the back and like pin them in place it was like horrific like and it just and luckily and i i had

a manager at img josh stevens who i'm still with he's amazing and we basically were like we're just gonna ride this out someone has to start paying us eventually to do stuff totally luckily when you had that gq piece did you feel angry or were you just like this is insane it was more like this is an insane person it was more like because he got so much backlash for it it was kind of just like what was your angle here like what were you trying to do especially after the gq us like the main gq had already like written something nice about me yeah it comes out of nowhere to just like and it was you know it's click bait he's just trying to make something happen

and again to go back to an original point like you're not it's not like they put a 900 pound person in the target exactly I'm a big guy

you're a traditionally good looking man I'm like you know I'm definitely the way I always tell there were some people I would do articles

and they'd be like kind of confused they're like I would never call you fat or plus size and I'd be like and you're. They're like, I would never call you fat or plus size. And I'd be like. And you're tall. I'm six foot six.

And from like, from a fashion perspective though, that's what I always tell people. I'm like, I am about 125 pounds more than the average guy. Sure. I am so gargantuanly larger than a traditional male model. And that is why it all works. Also like, I mean, in the world that we live in like there are stores that we just can't i mean i i've never worn anything at uniclo never once i

their pants they're they're very tall i mean tallest a strong i have the tall struggle so it's all struggles bad uniglo uh for a little while high waters were very popular where like they didn't have to be sure sure sure yeah yeah. I started going to Uniqlo for a minute just because they were the first ones that I found stretch denim from. So I could get like a 38 and it would stretch out to like 36. I could never wear a shirt for that. The number of shirts that I own that are a little bit too short. And then like,

I try to hold onto these shirts, but I put, I washed them once and then they become too short and it makes me. I've been, I've been going through, we've been going through like the closet and I've just been like let i've been like marie condoing everything being like you haven't worn this for four years because it didn't fit when you bought it and you just really hope like there's that whole idea of like holding on to things in your

closet especially as a person because you're gonna lose weight yeah that's another thing it's a big person your whole life you're like i going to lose weight. I'm going to be smaller one day. And that day is going to be great. And then in all of your happiness and all of your confidence and hopes and dreams are for that time, you're going to be smaller. And I think a lot of people, especially like I went through a big, like I gained weight, I lost weight and you notice the difference. So you're like, you tie anything good to the weight loss. And really, it took me years to be like, no, I could still surprisingly be happy when I do get bigger. But it's really just like finding a comfortability in yourself. Like if I get, I know that I was getting to the point where I did gain even more weight, like in the middle,

there's some stuff in like the middle of my modeling career where i really was like i'm a plus size model nothing matters i can i can just and i gained a ton of weight and i like would see it in shoots and like it just even for me i'm like i don't feel comfortable looking at that um if imagine they upgrade they they're like he's now the first plus plus size model exactly like that's how you find out that you become braver. The more you eat, the braver you are for continuing to do this. And that's something actually

like the fat acceptance community is trying to like tamp down on. They're like, people aren't brave for doing things while being fat. But it's so tricky because like, you know,

Lizzo, there's a certain degree where like to be successful and heavier or fat, like automatically you're now part of your part. But like Lizzo recently, and she handles herself so well given the amount, but like she lost some weight.

Yeah. And then someone like, you know, tweeted like, good to see Lizzo losing some weight. And she might want to lose some weight on her own, but then it's like, now are you going against the thing? And she you know she quote treated the person complimenting her like this made me order some uh taco bell you know kind of like a shut the fuck up complicated adele lost all this weight people are like stop saying when he's when you said that you lost the

weight you know you said to him great or good exactly because i know because that's what you wanted to do that's what i wanted to do and that's the thing with your body positivity is it is always if it is for yourself that's all that matters i if i decide one day i'm like i'm gonna stop eating carbs for the rest of my life i'm gonna eat a thousand calories a day don't do that that is that is an eating disorder don't do that yeah but if i decided that's what i wanted and i wanted to look like mr olympia and that's just what i went for there i'd have so many people come out of the woodwork and just be like you've betrayed us and i'm like but this is my my body it's not yours i literally like that's the whole thing of body positivity is like you can do whatever you can do whatever you want you can do whatever you want you could gain weight you could

lose weight you can get muscular you could lose muscular you can do anything you want it's your body and it's and it's trying to take a stigma off of that and i so it's really just about learning to be comfortable with yourself and it's it's it's a constant struggle do you still fantasize do you still have that fantasy of being thinner oh yeah i i in my head i was like you weren't on there were so many shows i auditioned for that I like. I auditioned for Ballers. I auditioned for like so many like big premium TV shows that I didn't get that I'm like, man, if I had a six pack, I would have fucking booked the fuck out of that role. Because I was like right for it for everything else. So I think there's always there's always going to be like, is this holding me back? Every cast director in New York told me when I started, like when I left school and started like booking things they're like you need to either gain 50 pounds or lose 50 pounds

that's the only way you're gonna work that happened to me too yes they really said that absolutely you're kind of in the middle like what's going on you're tall but like like i went in for um i used to go in for all the josh gad things so i was i went in for spelling bee and then i went in for morm Bee and then I went in for Mormon and they were just like, they basically were like, you're not fat enough. Is that what motivated you?

What was your decision to, that's a lot of weight you lost. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also learned how to, like I got out of college and I didn't know how to eat without my mom being around. So I was eating Wendy's every day.

I was eating just like crap all. And so it took me a long time to lose all that weight because I was learning how to cook for myself and be a human being. And yeah, it just kind of, it happened for me slowly. And, you know, talk about your mother. People started coming up to me. Women started coming up to me on the subway

and being like, what nationality are you? And like, that never up to me. Women started coming up to me on the subway and being like, what nationality are you? And that never happened to me. Never happened to me when I was fat, when I was bigger. And it was a very eye-opening thing to see how the whole world started looking at me differently because I was a little bit thinner.

It's crazy. It's because there's a little bit thinner there i think it's because they there's a thing with being big and being fat that the general population it's like we've been raised believe that you have control over it and you do to a certain extent but not really to others i mean i had a buddy in acting school who i'd watch house like 15 cheeseburgers at a time, 13 large bites, ripped six pack, beautiful Scottish man. His name was Rory. He's a great guy, but I would just watch him just eat insane things. And I would be getting like one salad with a little falafel on the side. And I was triple his size and I could not understand it. Like the, I mean, it's the

genetics has a lot to play yeah it is not the be-all end-all and i i still in my comments they're like well you could just start shredding and blah blah blah and they're like if you just and it's always like especially like they're in online there's a big like bodybuilding culture right now especially on tiktok and all that stuff it's terrible and they're like you just need to eat a caloric deficit and you're like i need to starve you're just telling me to not eat like this is what we've been telling fat people from the moment they were born they're like you know if you eat less and i was like i spent years not eating it's amazing they'll be like they'll be like you know what you should do just don't eat for 24 hours

and then run take a cold shower you'll feel the best you've ever felt it's like it's like telling like a blind person, you should see. I know. You should know how to see. It's crazy. You talked about your buddy earlier who had a fuller chest. I see guys who are much larger than me.

I have, I'm a fuller chested gentleman. I will have man boobs until the day I die. It's just part of my genetics. It's how it works. I didn't like it for a long time. I'm learning to accept it in my own way but even now I have friends who have like much larger man boobs than me and you're just like this is not no matter how much weight you lose this isn't going away yeah as a surgical repair yeah if it is something you wanted to

change and we just like yell at people to do that they're like you need to change how you look so I'm comfortable looking at you because i'm scared i'm going to be you and i don't want to be reminded of me being scared of being you so please fix that well that's what this you know i've obviously i witnessed the way men contribute to the body shaming culture and i know women it's its own thing oh yeah but i've seen the way the men god i mean it's it's shocking like the jordan pet Petersons of the world where, you know, Sports Illustrated put a plus size model on the cover

and Jordan was like, I refuse to say that this is beautiful. This is not beautiful. And my dad, my father, and again, like, I can't blame him because like I see how frail and deeply insecure he is.

But we would watch uh so you think you can dance and there was like the woman judge and that was like was was bigger yeah and my dad like would always make a comment and i'd be like there's a deep feeling of like you don't have to fuck her yeah what are you doing and it's like the guys who comment on lizzo i always i always want to be like you know she would never fuck you because you're poor so why are you like like yeah I I just it's I don't understand I think as humans we have an innate need to place ourselves somewhere in the hierarchy and as long as we're above another person it's like our standing makes ourselves feel a little more comfortable and like the amount of people like friends I've had were like at least I'm not fat and you're just like i've been fat my whole life it's not the worst like i struggled

with it but most of my struggles were because of outside forces that like now has like my daughter's generation they're not going to have as deep of a problem as i did i don't i didn't have as deep of a problem with body image as my parents generation like it's getting better it's getting more accepting it's getting like hey don't say that like from not just being like hey it's mean to make fun of someone's size or appearance to like now with me i'm like it's just lazy this is so easy to make fun of things for people like that is the lamest thing to go to yeah marco what do you think about your body what do you like when you look in the mirror, because sometimes I feel like you act like you're afraid to be fat. Like sometimes the way you order, the way you eat, you are into health food.

I like the way I look right now. I feel good about my body. There's always part of me where I see men like, you know, who's like a man that's like just cut a little more cut. Like Chris Hemsworth or something like that. Yeah, that's more than I would need. That's extreme, yeah. But I see it and I'm just like, ooh, I want to like have that. I want to have that.

And when I eat too much or if I have two days where I don't work out, I mean, I work out pretty consistently where like I feel it. It's the same areas where I felt as a kid and it's like here and it's here and i don't like the way it feels and it's tough to shake off sometimes so yeah so it's it i don't feel like it's anything too bad like when we went to we went to brunch yesterday i'm like this is a big this is a fun meal i'm to eat whatever the fuck we order. And I feel good that I have that balance. But I remember we were going back from Toronto, our sketch team. Do you remember this? And we stopped by a Wendy's.

And everyone was going to get Wendy's. And I was like, oh, I'm just not going to have anything. And I was like, get the fucking Wendy's. I was so mad. That's a problem I have. That's a was so mad. That's a problem I have. That's a problem I have. That's a problem I have. But I will say back, I'm glad I got the Wendy's.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad that I, I just, in general, I became, I ate like shit in high school, and I just became a no fast food. I'm just saying, like, that's a hard red line. That's not a bad thing to do. There's no, like, physical or even really emotional advantage to eating fast food

it's just like i know in my head it's like nostalgic yeah but i love like when i if i have a big if i have a big accomplishment once every five years i will go get mcdonald's yeah i want to be stoned for it too i want to really sure sure sure but part of me is like i'm glad that i fucking ate wendy's with my friends yeah but i'm fine yeah but i do have that issue we're like if if we're going to a place and somebody gets like the health healthy thing in my head i'm like fuck you i thought there was a pact here when i i thought there was a pact that you and i were gonna fucking not think about our health for one second because if you he starts thinking about his health that means i have to

fucking think about my health because i should be thinking about my health in comparison. And so it's a bad quality. When my wife started dating, I would give like, that was a thing that was hard. So we'd go out to dinner, like nice, cool places.

And she'd order a salad almost every time. Yeah. Like this isn't fun for me. And like, I would be like, well, what do you want as an appetizer? And she's like,

Oh, like, and like she had never, or like, she was like, I so rarely an appetizer or a dessert be like, well, what do you want as an appetizer? She's like, oh. She was like, I so rarely an appetizer or a dessert was never ordered at a restaurant. Meanwhile, I'm just like, this is why I'm in a restaurant. So I can have mozzarella sticks

or some sort of an appetizer. Dessert, not every time, sure, but I'd always get it. To this day, if I'm going to spend the time to go to a restaurant, I'm getting an appet'm going to spend the time to go to a restaurant i'm like i'm getting an appetizer i'm gonna i'm hanks i'm gonna experience being at a restaurant yeah and yeah and i've got better at at that that's good yeah that's good yeah i i'll try to change for better for me i won't i won't guilt you no but i was glad but i look back and i i don't know i i like that in friendships i like like someone who goes like, fucking do,

like I like that. For me, that is a form of love. I think for Chris, it got old. Chris and I, we used to hang out a lot more. Chris is another person in our sketch group

and for Chris and I, I think he at one point was like, no one comments about what I'm eating more than you do, Douglas. And like, that's bad. That's not, that's not.

It's because you grew up being bigger and people have commented on how you ate your whole life. I spent entire like true god forbid i went for seconds at like thanksgiving or like easter or something oh yeah they'd be like oh i'm going for a second plate and i'm like fucking my 12 year old brother just had seven plates but because he weighs 92 pounds like no one gives a shit my mom would say this is more a manners thing i guess but every morning i'd have a delicious bagel roast beef avocado and like a crazy morning and i would take i would like i would like my last bite to be big i like my mouth to feel full oh to take time and as i like would enjoy that last bite mom would be like that was probably more than one bite

and i and i with food i'd be like mom this is my last bite can i enjoy it please why would you why would you do this why she couldn't help herself so much joy in eating i used to do that to like i for me to this day my last bite has to be my best bite it's not my biggest but i have to have especially if i'm having a sandwich i'll like eat around to be like this one has all of the toppings like and i'll just like pop that in at the end i agree i went through a phase i ate ravioli a lot at my dad's house because i've played a single dad no it was it was a little nicer but it was but it was like big pieces and i went through a phase where i was like i can swallow six raviolis without chewing and i'd be like eating gigantic

pasta meals in one minute just swallowing and i'm like what am i proving this is not a skill that's ever going to get me anywhere um all right well let's go on to our uh our next segment uh sorry i fucked up with all the uh cues this has got to stop this has got to stop do you have a just a something it's something that's got to stop big small personal this is a this is a huge um departure from the rest of our conversation but i was thinking about it on like the car ride over here. And so I listened to a lot of audio books. I'm very big into audio books. And every time I mentioned reading a book,

there's always someone in my life that's like, you read that book. Did you not listen to it? And it infuriates me because like, mind you, I've read hundreds and hundreds. It's always a person who has not read a book in like five fucking years that wants to judge you're like not reading it well enough but like i especially like someone like me like i grew up i even when i was reading as a kid i had audiobooks i had the

books on tape and i had to read along as i listened to them i don't know if it was another thing about our generations i feel like none of us were diagnosed with anything we should have been diagnosed so i don't know if i had ad ADHD or dyslexia or what I had. I just fucking powered through school, like getting C's and not being able to do stuff. But I always loved stories and I always loved like reading, but I could not physically sit down and read a book. I'd get lost.

I'd reread the same line like 15 times. So I have to have like a person telling the story to me. I'm a great listener. And people would there's some sort of like book shaming gatekeeping and like like weird book gate now you're a reader do you judge do you feel any judgment no no no i'm not good with the the i i have to read or else my mind goes elsewhere while i'm listening yeah see i'm the opposite i need i will go elsewhere when i'm reading it whereas if what happens is if i start to drift i'll hear like the voice keep going i'm like oh

it's not gonna wait for me i have to like fucking pay attention and do this and it's like there's this weird thing it's not even just in audiobooks it's like if you do a thing but you don't do it correct enough so i think it's just gatekeeping in general that drives me yeah there's so much cool stuff happening with like nerdy shit becoming mainstream. Yeah. And there's so many people like, you don't know this enough. You're not doing,

I saw people flip out about the latest like rings of power, like the latest Lord of the Rings series. And if you shut your brain off, like to the, whether it was correct to the lore or the intentions tolkien had it's 120 like billion dollar show it's a good fucking show yeah and people are so like but it's not the correct good it's not the way it's supposed to be it drives me insane nerd culture nerd culture i hate it uh except i've been watching i i was a big Dragon Ball Z fan. Yeah. And I revisited Dragon Ball Super.

It came back. I didn't even know. But a lot. 15 years later. And I watched all the episodes. And I got to tell you, for the first time in my life, I feel, I was never a Star Wars people. But when people like a play, I'm like, you're ruining it.

I do have a feeling. And I still read it because it's like nostalgia for me. It's very enjoyable. And I feel like you ruined this franchise's like nostalgia for me. It's very enjoyable and I feel like you ruined this franchise. Wow. The story is awful. You've ruined the characters.

People who see it from this, it's garbage. You're ruining Dragon Ball Z. It's garbage. Goku's a psychopath. Enough with the hair colors. Stop it. So many.

He has so many transformations now. That's so funny. And it is, to be fair, awful. It's awful. awful oh it's fucking terrible and everyone goes well you were a kid when you saw that is it and i'm like no it's bad wow well it's not that i'm speaking directly to the dragon ball z it's not that it's bad it's just

the same everything is like now he's the most strongest person in the universe and there's nothing else to do freezes a friend and that's like if Hitler came back and you said, well, now Hitler's a pal. Frieza's an unlikely ally. He destroyed whole planets. So many. Billions of people. He massacred them. No, you're absolutely right.

You're absolutely right. He massacred them. In the storyline, he is talking about their entire universe is about to be erased. So they have no choice. Yeah, numbers. It's become a thing about numbers. the in the storyline he is talking about their entire universe is about to be erased so they have no choice otherwise it's become a thing about all they do is they just keep going higher and higher because that's that's the only arc of the show i love it it's like see for me i always love it when things keep going like it like same i know star wars people get super precious about it but for me i just get excited that this thing that i was like nerdy about and like shamed

of as a kid is now considered cool in any way shape or form that like i get super jazzed about that like i i if i ever if i ever like ever expected as a writer if i ever write anything i would call it what i would call the super saiyan problem which is like the common anime problem whereas you make the character the way you solve one one arc is the guy levels up to the higher level. Oh, yeah. And then once you do that, all your secondary characters become meaningless. Yep.

And you bring them back randomly. Suddenly Krillin's back in the world's strongest tournament. I'm like, Krillin, what are you doing here? You haven't been strong for fucking 30 years. Get out. In Krillin's defense, he is technically the world's strongest human in his defense because everyone else is the same i miss it i miss it i miss

i miss tn and they gear up for battle i'm like yamcha yamcha what are you gonna do here i will say when yamcha showed up it was just like you are the one character known for getting slapped around the second you are the character you are the person who dies to let us know that this story is real now and he says he's like I've been training real hard you're like Yamcha you're not making it past the first level of bad guys we all know this super super we all know this Yamcha

this is crazy that arc by the way that entire arc takes place supposedly like in the manga and in the show in 42 minutes. This fucking hours upon hours of episodes and volumes of books is supposed to take place in a 42-minute tournament, and that's it. I think I speak for all your listeners right now. I know.

What can I say? I went way off. What the fuck are you guys talking about? It's really hard because I don't have a fan base that's any anime related. There's no way. It's a part of my life. I bet you there's one person right now who's have just going you're like this is the worst there's no way it's a part of my life i bet you there's one person right now who's like fuck i love this i think everyone appreciates the fact that it's just like this is the thing that mattered to me and i understand like feeling like the thing that mattered to you and like the thing that got you

through is getting ruined in some way yeah yeah i don't know what's interesting to me is uh may i ask how old are you 33 33. Oh, wow. Oh, okay. You guys are the same age, kind of, right? Yeah, 34. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, 34.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you were a little bit older, so I was like, wow, you were older, but this is Dragon Ball Z. This was before my time. This was before my time. Do you remember

how many episodes it took to build that spirit bomb? 17 episodes of him just charging this thing. Wow. What channel was this on? Toonami. And this is the explosion of Toonami charging this thing. What channel was this on? Toonami. And this is the explosion of Toonami Cartoon Network.

Yeah. And there's a big debate in the community whether you watch it in English dubbed or you read the subtitles, which wasn't even an option when we were kids. It was like, no, you had to just watch the dub. No, but I got it from eBay. I went on eBay and I got bootlegs of Dragon Ball

before it came into America and Dragon Ball GT. And it was subtitles, but they cursed and they had nudity and blood. There was a lot of nudity in the original. And a lot of Bulma. And I had a piece of paper. I was so into them cursing. And the piece of paper said,

fuck, shit, bitch. And I would tally how many times they said fuck. Wow. Because it was so cool. I was at an age where I was like, fuck, cursing is so fun. But also seeing Wow. Because it was so cool. I was at, you know, I was at an age where I was like, she said fuck. Seeing curses on TV was so weird. I remember with a commercial

for that 70s show where they said bitch in the commercial, not in the show. Wow. And I was like, we've leveled up as a society. Yeah. This is like able to pass now.

Wow. Okay. Well, listen, if you're a fan of dragon ball super please please write me so i know that's absolutely you should this will be a spin-off podcast i guess gatekeeping in general let's go to our final segment your blessing i like that that was That was really, was that you again?

That's me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was so lovely. Oh, thanks. Thanks. A little bit of keyboard there. Do you have a blessing? Yeah, yeah.

Actually, I'm going to say Asian grocery stores. I've been really... Toby just went shopping on it yesterday. God damn. It's so great. And I'm so glad

that I live in New York City and that I live a block away from a great Asian grocery store. They're super nice. They're super helpful. And I'm so glad that I live in New York City and that I live a block away from a great Asian grocery store. They're super nice. They're super helpful. And I'm like trying to get into, you know, Kenji Lopez-Alt? He's a food blogger on YouTube. I thought he was like, he's a clerk at my...

No, he's a food blogger. He's like a food YouTuber. And he's incredible. He wrote a book. It's called The Walk. he's he's like a food um youtuber okay and he's incredible he wrote a book it's called the walk he's written a couple books yeah and i'm trying to get into like doing stir fry and stuff because it's like such it's so amazing food culture is amazing in china and everywhere and so i've been going to these stores and they're just great amazing chinese um grocery stores asian asian grocery stores those Asian grocery stores. Those are good. I'll say my blessing, similar, it's related. We're at Tova.

We got back from Cancun, and she's been just cooking up a storm. That's nice. And, you know, if I were to think about what I'd be eating if it was just me, I mean, it's a different life. It's the life of a king. Oh, that's great.

It's astounding and she's I'm very appreciative of these meals thank you as you should be as I should be mine is mine mine would be similar guy I'm the cook in my house um my my wife does when we first met she um only cooked out of a book called uh you are what you eat which was that show where the British lady would lay out all the food that someone ate in a week and like and would like take a stool sample from them do you guys know this show no it is horrific like it is it was like peak mid-2000s like just crazy reality show this british lady would be like okay this is what you like you should go to like a heavy person like this is what you eat in a week. And it would be like a folding table

of just like a sea of beige foods. And she's like, this is why you're having issues. And this is why your stool is so loose. Anyway, that was the only cookbook she would cook out of. So the food was horrific. Like she made me a navy bean loaf once.

Navy beans? Yeah. I don't even know what that was. It was the grossest thing. One time she was supposed to make me veggie burgers, but it was like this weird soy cookie with like leeks in it. It was horrific. And so quickly in our relationship, I became the cook. But I can't always cook all the time.

You know, I travel a lot for work. So I'm very grateful for Trader Joe's pre-made meals because they are so good and they are so simple. And Trader Joe's in general, especially now that I live in the suburbs, going to a Trader Joe's that you don't have to fight your way through. Like the ones like especially the ones like over here on like 14th Street and whatnot. You just go in as soon as you walk in. There's a guy standing with a sign like this is the end of the line. Just get in. I'm just going to ride the line and pick your stuff as you go. It's awful. So yeah, easy grocery stores and pre-made meals. I'm very, very blessed with to

have. Fantastic. Do you have any, where can people find you? People can find me on the social medias of all of them. Not all of them, but a lot of them. At Zach Miko, Z-A-C-H-M-I-K-O. If I'm doing anything interesting, that's where it will be. Apparently, social media matters a lot. So follow me, I guess. It sure does. That's very important. Yes. This is coming out.

Anything you want to plug, Douglas? I was just trying to pull up the date that this comes out. You can follow me at TheDouglasG on TikTok and Instagram to see some funny videos. the douglas g on tiktok and instagram see some funny videos um also i will be playing robbie hart in the wedding singer at the gateway playhouse in bellport long island we open january 26th through february 26th come out and see it and and say hi afterwards musical theater baby it's very exciting i tried to do musical theater. That's what I came to New York for, and then I couldn't dance. And Les Mis closed.

There was nothing left for me. I was like, that's it. For me, the biggest thing, guys, is I have the Silver Lining. We're doing it more than once a month now, but it's where you can see me do an hour of some old stuff, some newer working it out stuff. And then I always bring up two comics to mix it up.

You get to see some of my favorite. These are comics that I booked personally. They're fantastic. We have a show January 15th, January 29th. These are both at 8 p.m. at Sesh Comedy Club. Tickets only $10. Link in the description. Check it out.

If you're in New York, that's the show you want to see. I got a bunch every month. Tour-wise, I will be in Timonium, Maryland, which is near Baltimore, at Magoobies the 12th through the 14th. That sounds like you made that entire block up.

We did a prank once with a guest where we made up clubs to see if they could find out. Those sound like Dragon Ball Z characters, actually. I'll be at the Comedy Zone in Greensville, South Carolina, the 20th and the 21st. And then the biggest thing, Downside Live, me and Russell interviewing Aaliyah Janine, January 15th at 10 p.m. at Sesh Comedy Club. You want to make it a doubleheader, go to the Silver Lining at 8, then stay there. Come for the 10 p.m. live recording. And just remember, if you listen to a book, it doesn't count.

This is The Downside. One, two, three. Downside. You're listening to The Downside. The Downside. With Gianmarco Ceresi.