The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #129 Dark Disabled Stories with Ryan J. Haddad

Episode Date: March 21, 2023

Actor and Playwright Ryan J. Haddad joins to share the downsides of Russell being straight, able-bodied actors playing disabled roles, Glee, watching adult entertainment on your phone vs your laptop, not touching yourself to save your family, new doctors, and lying to customer service reps. You can watch full video of this episode HERE! Join the Patreon for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and MORE. Follow Ryan J. Haddad on Instagram and Twitter Get tickets to see Ryan in DARK DISABLED STORIES at The Public Theater in NYC through Winter/Spring 2023 For all the latest, visit http://www.ryanjhaddad.com/ Follow Gianmarco Soresi on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, & YouTube Subscribe to Gianmarco Soresi's email & texting lists Check out Gianmarco Soresi's bi-monthly show in NYC Get tickets to see Gianmarco Soresi in a city near you Watch Gianmarco Soresi's special "Shelf Life" on Amazon Follow Russell Daniels on Twitter & Instagram See Russell in Titanique in NYC! E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Paige Asachika & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Dave Columbo Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Part of the Authentic Podcast Network Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I've been slowly doing my self-tapes more and more in my agent's office, and it's been so nice. Where's your agent's office? Well, that's the thing that sucks, but it's close to the theater. It's on Madison and like 20. No, but are you what agency? Gersh. You know what? This is a new record.

This is the earliest in the podcast. Russell has had to mention that he is with Gersh. Congratulations. We're not recording it, are we? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. Welcome to The Downside. My name is Joe Marcus-Ferrisi.

I'm here with my co-host, who, if you haven't heard the news, then you haven't spoken to him in person. Russell Daniels, how are you doing, Russell? I'm good, I'm good. And we are here with our fantastic guest. So happy to have you.

I haven't seen you in so long. Oh, my God. I want to make sure I get your last name right. Ryan Haddad? Haddad. Haddad. I apologize. No.

I'm grateful that you asked. The Haddad family has been in Cleveland, Ohio, for 100 years going from Lebanon and Syria. So that is why it's Haddad and not anything that sounds remotely like it would be pronounced in Lebanon. Yeah. And I'm not even going to attempt what those might be. Yeah. Yeah.

I just want to bring up real quick. When you came in here you asked Russell if he was gay and Russell it's not your fault only because I wanted to know if we're speaking freely for 90 minutes

if I qualified you both as straight white men if that would be unfair you can talk down to us the whole I don't want to i don't mean to i don't mean to say that but now you said unfortunately is that your typical response i'm just curious uh no i think maybe because you said are you gay russell said i mean are you straight you said i'm a little apologetic because i'm in titanic i think it's not because I'm gay. So if a straight guest had asked you that, you wouldn't have had a different answer?

Did you say, are you gay or are you straight? I think I said, are you straight? I said, yes, unfortunately. And I think it's because we were talking about Titanic. So I feel a little bit of guilt around that. No, I wanted to say that i'm i have not seen titanic yet and people have been telling me since last summer that i needed to get my ass over there um i feel like it's in a more accessible space now than it was yes so i'm excited to be going to that. And, uh, but I, I'm certain that the gay fans of Titanic are fans of you.

They are. No, everyone's been lovely. And the cast loves me. It's, it's, it's a, it's a great thing.

I think, I think I just, I, it's a slight thing in the back of my head. It just reminded me, I probably have said this once before when I was, when I was, uh,

uh, catering here in New York, I just did a couple of times. Uh, but I pretend that I did it for a decade. York. I just did a couple times, but I pretend that I did it for a decade. I catered with someone, some guy. We went out to pizza after this catering gig and he stole a bottle of champagne, as we should have.

And I remember he certainly didn't come off. I wasn't sure if he was straight or gay. I probably assumed he was straight at the time. And at the end of the meal, he was like, you're really cute. Would you like to go to a museum sometime and i said i'm i'm so sorry i'm so flattered i'm straight i wish i was gay and he was like you wish you were gay and i was like oh uh i just just right just to avoid the uncomfortableness of this moment that's what i meant i don't know what i was saying but But it was clear to him that it was,

something about it offended him. This was a long time ago. It was 2011. We all had 2012. But I remember I tried to do a thing where I was like, oh, I wish. Oh, I wish. When I should have been like,

even if I was, I don't think I'd go on a date with you. That's what you should have been like, even if I was, I don't think I'd go on a date with you. That would have been the truth. Because the undertone of I wish I was gay might have had the opposite meaning, could have had the opposite meaning of like, oh, you're really wonderful and charming. That's what I was trying. I like to imagine him in his mind. He stole a bottle of champagne for the two of you to share.

And you had no idea until that moment. We were at a dollar pizza place. This is a cheap ass date. But that could have been the truth. That probably would be more truthful. I'd be like, I could be on the fence, but you're not pushing it over. Yeah. I met you, I think, in 2016.

And I've been wishing you were gay ever since. What did you guys meet doing we did like an open mic ish thing, but there was no microphone like a theater like a theater open like That's how I felt but but John Marco is the best thing to come out of that for me And I it has been not to like toot your horn, but a joy to watch your career sort of skyrocket in that time. Well, thank you. That's very kind.

Unless it had already skyrocketed and I was oblivious. No, you saw me right as I was making the transition from actor actor to one person need to just stand up. So you were like right there when I was, and you were very kind and complimentative. And it was at a time where I think I, you know, the people early on who were like, you're good at this. You know, I, it was a very nice time because that's when I really made a big decision to turn away all down all the movie roles and TV roles and CBS Blue Bloods reporter number two, which I'd go back to in a second.

I'd leave this podcast to go do it right now. Real quick. Do those residuals pay? They do. They come in frequently. I just got to check for my, it's a terrible way to live. Like every time I'm spending too much money,

I get a random email from my manager like, hey, 250 bucks for hustlers playing on Delta TV. And I'm like, oh, cool. This is my new financial system. I just hope an email comes in absolving me from everything. Let me just say real quick, because we surely have some new listeners. This is the downside. This is a place where me and Russell, we have people on to let their negative flag fly

to express, to complain, to kvetch, to moan, to bitch. They don't have to be thankful. Sometimes people comment on these episodes. They're like, oh, Jamargo is complaining about a salad. He should be grateful. And I'm like, that's not what the show is.

No, they didn't have bread. It's a gimmick. It's just a stick. You got to have a gimmick, as they say in Gypsy. Yes. Do you know this, Gypsy? I've seen it. I saw it a long time ago.

I think I saw it with, what's her name? She's big. Oh, no. There were two in a row that were big. No, Patty LuPone. Patty LuPone. Okay, who was before? Let's see.

Who played it on Broadway before Patty? She wasn't. I don't think she was right for it, if that's a good hint. I think I know. She's excellent, but. Into the Woods. Bernadette Peters. Bernadette Peters.

Very good, very good. This man is currently in a musical off-Broadway. Who was the original? Stop. Come on. That's too much. No, that's number one. Who was the original? Give me a hint. The original. She is. Before Patty Lu's number one. Who is the original?

Give me a hint. Before Patti LuPone was Patti LuPone, she was the brass leading lady. The golden age. Ethel Merman. Alright, we have lost all the listeners. This is the downside. We're not a theater

podcast, I promise. Today you are. Real quick business. I've been. Just so you guys know, real quick business. I've been working with a new YouTube agency so they have ideas of things I need to be doing.

Okay. Look at the camera. Hey, you at home, please join the Patreon. Patreon.com slash downside for just $5 a month. You get bonus episodes like our live episode

with Joshua Henry. Broadway's Joshua Henry. Oh my God. Exactly. Am I invited? Oh, it already happened. It already happened.

I'm devastated. But for just $5 a month, you can watch it. And Jesus Christ, I'm just about to release, I recorded a clean album for Sirius XM. Not going to release it

to the public because I need to maintain my sexy Jewish bad boy image. So if you want to listen to this clean album or watch it, it's going to be for free on the Patreon. Not free.

You have to join the Patreon. $5 a month. Patreon.com slash downside. Thanks for your enthusiasm, Russell. I didn't know if I should look and make a plea or if I should look at your camera. I didn't know. Russell gets half the Patreon,

so, you know, let's see some enthusiasm. Can you say something negative to kick off this theme music? For those who aren't watching, just listening, John Marco read that off of a yellow legal pad. This is The Downside. One, two, three. Downside.

You're listening to The Downside. The Downsidezi oh god i uh i i wanted to share a story before we go into your your your life and your shirt i love it uh i wore this for that's why this is why i asked if you were straight i remember now because I wanted to wear this like rainbow-y shirt but in a straight pattern. I wanted to wear the rugby shirt for the two straight boys. Yeah. It's a very John Marco shirt.

It looks like you would wear it. I really, we walked in and I was like, I think John Marco has that shirt. I'm truly obsessed. I have a worse version, the thinner stripes. I don't like thin stripes.

It looks too walled. Let's get another one, and then you and I will be matching. I can't wear stripes. I think we should make a movie. Okay, but tell them. Sure. Let me think. Do we want to do the most embarrassing one?

I guess I'm going to push through. I'm going to do this. I got a new laptop, and i've been waiting for a while to get this i i i went to the apple store and got a just didn't make an appointment just went up and i wanted to see what my old computer was i wanted to make sure like there's been enough models that it's worth it to buy this new laptop and they go oh we can't uh even if with the credit card even with your email we apple makes it impossible to find out what I bought at the store in the past, which is frustrating.

So I go, okay, okay, I'll get out my laptop. So you didn't have it with you? No, no, I did. I had the old one with me. So I said, great, I'll open it. We'll look at the model number there. Now, do you know where this story is going? No, I'm nervous, though.

No. But I know exactly where you would find it if you were looking for it. I pull out my laptop. It's in my backpack. Oh my God, did you have porn? I had porn. As the most recent thing?

I wasn't in a place where I thought this laptop was coming out. I did it real fast. Boom, close it right away. But they know. So then what he said, what he said to me,

I said, I'm sorry And I did the thing where I open it like this Was there volume? Was volume on? No it wasn't playing I pause after I come I know I was imagining you Just as an animal

Fully opening it just mid Slamming it as soon as you come And I open it And some drops fall off Fully opening it just mid. Slamming it as soon as you come. And. I open it and some drops fall off. So I. I immediately. You know, I feel like the courtesy is you just pretend.

We all pretend we didn't see it. But I was like, oh, I'm just sorry. One second. And he said, hey, man, what are you sorry for? Human nature. Okay. Well, he said, what are you sorry for? Being human? That's beautiful, wow

It made me go How many times Has this happened to every Apple employee in the entire world Because it must be Two or three times a week There's no way it's just me There's no way it's just me

And I'm up to this story You're like, this is the most embarrassing thing that's ever happened. And I'm going, what? Because, first of all, I haven't watched porn on a laptop in probably eight years. You're a phone? Phone. Phone. But because.

I never. Okay, we'll go into this. But because I'm a phone person, it happens to me like three times a week. And hopefully it's like a friend and we can be like, ha ha. But like it's phone. And like if you don't deliberately close every window of every. Yeah. Russell is.

Russell is like dying to go to his phone right now. Just so you guys know, Whenever Russell is checking his phone He is just looking at some porn in the middle No I'm a computer porn person Not a phone porn person For this reason Are you doing it Do you do it on the computer

I have a specific reason I like the bigger screen You go full screen Well not all the time That is weird That feels out of control screen i don't like you go full screen oh well not all the time but that's but but i know that's we that is weird i like to that feels out of control i i like i i like um i don't know i just like the laptop but i do what you're saying i am i am so conscious of because i take my laptop everywhere and i'm like doing the shows and stuff and so i always, even if I know that I've used the laptop,

I'm always slowly opening it like this. Because you just never know. You look so suspicious every time you get in your laptop. It's a terrifying feeling. It could happen. Everyone knows why you're doing that. Everyone knows. Here's why I like computer.

And this is like, I'm sure this is something horrible about me, but I will go on my website and I will open like five tabs, like five things I'm interested in seeing. And then- And you like to have all of them lined up? Well, this is the problem. This is why I always have fucking tabs.

Which one am I going to choose? So it's just like five. And I'm just like, in my mind, it's as if I'm going to masturbate for like 30 minutes. And of course, I just then I go, okay, I'll start with this one. And two minutes later. Wait, you line them up before? They're just new tab, new tab, new tab. Oh, okay.

Okay. So site, new tab, new tab, new tab. And then I go to one tab as if I'm going to like, as if I'm going to do a sampling. But then the first time I go, yeah, this will do. I never get to the other tabs. I never get to the other tabs. It's very infrequent. I'm still pretty.

Once in a while I'm like, eh, not this one. Yeah. I do the same thing, but not with tabs. I basically will start one and be like, not these people. Exactly. And then I'll switch. But then you've got to watch the ad every time when I do the tab system I can start the ads

I can start the ads as I'm opening up the other ones get right past that you're in a time crunch there was a time when I first got into porn when I was like a teenager where I would I would open up like I would have four playing at once in different screens.

And then I said, this is an unsustainable sexual appetite. I'd be like making love to someone and be like, only one person here. I need someone there, someone there, someone there. Too many worlds going on. Wow. Do you ever go like, I'm going to take a break from porn, like a long break?

Oh, God. Oh, my. what's do you ever do you ever go like i'm gonna take a break from porn like a long break oh oh god oh my um this is a comedy podcast yeah okay uh but we can get we can get into yeah yeah i don't know which direction he was going i was raised i I was raised Syrian Orthodox, Orthodox Christian. Oh. And I have a relationship with God at this point in my life where, like, I do pray when bad things are happening. But when good things are happening, I'm like, I'm good. Like, I'm good. But if something really bad so somebody who is very close to me is like very sick i'll pray a lot and do all of that and sometimes in my

head i'll go my goodness i think the this is dark but funny i think i don't think i've ever shared this anywhere before and i don't want to say like for who because then they'll then they'll be like what the fuck yeah yeah but like if somebody is like really sick sometimes i'll go in my family or whatever i'll think well the only way to save this person is if I stop masturbating. And that is like some deep religious guilt that like, you know, my dad caught me watching porn when I was a teenager and now we can laugh about it and it's a scene in one of my plays. But like, I was not raised to that level.

Like we didn't go to church every Sunday. Like, I don't know why that thought still enters my head in my early thirties. But I think so, uh, a couple of years ago at this point, we're in 2023. So a couple of like two years ago,

I did that. And I was like, I'm not going to masturbate until I know until they're better until I know that this person is better or dead. Basically. And that's going to be some mixed news. And they go, we're so sorry.

He didn't make it. I'll be right back. They go, we're so sorry. He didn't make it. I'll be right back. Oh, my God. You're going to have liquids coming out of both ends of your body. I've got to say, it worked. This time it worked.

But, but, but, but, okay. It worked in that that person is still very much alive and healthy. And I'm grateful for that. It's almost worse than it worked. But it did get to a point. And I'm, I'm grateful for that, but it's almost worse than it worked, but it did get to a point. No, no, no.

It did get to a point that like by the end of the two months, it wasn't like the person was like, check Mark, it's better now. I did sort of give in and like, I sort of, I sort of, you said he's're far enough along.

I've done all I could do. I basically had to reconcile that it wasn't going to save this. I did it for two months and now it's up to the doctors. Two months is a long time. I went to the doctors like,

Doc, just so you know, on my end, I put in the doctors. Two months is a long time. I went to the doctors like, Doc, just so you know, on my end, on my end, I have to talk for two months. It's time for you to do your job. Two months is a long time. Be honest with me and I really want you to answer this question

deep in your soul. Yeah. If you found out that I would die if you masturbated and I didn't know this so no one, no one would hold you accountable but God came to you That I would die if you masturbated. And I didn't know this. So no one would hold you accountable.

But God came to you and said, Russell, if you jerk off, the moment you do, Jamarco will die. How long would you not jerk off for? I could do it for, I think, if I knew it. If I knew it and I believed it and God was telling me this and I was like suddenly like, I believed in God. Like it was real. It was real. Yeah,

a lot of premises have to be true. You get one year. I think I could do a year, but I think then like, Would you take me out for like a nice day before? Well, I would,

here's the thing. Would you have me surrounded by loved ones and then you'd be like, I'm going to go to the bathroom real quick. Is there, I can't tell anyone else. loved ones and then you'd be like, I'm going to go to the bathroom real quick. Is there, I can't tell anyone else.

You can't, you can tell. Can I tell Nicole? You can tell Nicole. Is Nicole your partner? Yeah. Oh, so you're saying,

you're saying you're going to go to Nicole and be like, look. Well, I'm just saying. The hair jobs are going up. It would be a lot worse if I,

if I can't, I mean, I could, I could hold out longer. If you couldn't tell her, you'd be like, Nicole, I'm saying I can hold out longer for you. I could give you more time, John Marco. You could. I think it's very different.

What's Nicole's answer going to be? Two months. Two months of this shit. I cannot be given this many hands on. I can see her being really good for a week, and then she's like, all right, it's fine. He had a good run. One last rooftop party for her. And then she's like, all right, it's fine. He had a good run. You know, one last, one last rooftop party for, I think it's very different.

I mean, okay. I'm a perpetually single person. So in the midst of that two months, I was like alone and it was still like the vaccines were just rolling out and things like that. So I, it was, uh, it was a bigger bigger it felt like a bigger sacrifice

because the only person it's a huge sacrifice the only person the only person that could help me was me yeah whereas if i now i know you both have i know you have a girlfriend and you have a girl so like wife wife so don't you think like you could give him it really would depend on her participation how long it wouldn't because i think no that's why if there was any amount of sexual if there was an opportunity for any sexual release that wasn't only related to you yeah then it could go on for that's why if i could tell her you know of course i listen i i have kind of uh you know i have my own religious beliefs. And whenever I have someone who's sick, I think the more I masturbate, the quicker they'll recover.

So when my dad had heart surgery, it was just raw. It was a mess. Okay. Every second I could, I'd say, God, please. Yeah, but two months is, that's a long time. And like, I mean. Now now is there any part of you that goes like this is a weird way for god to work well it's also like since when am i religious like i haven't walked in i haven't walked into a church without there being like a wedding or

a funeral of my own accord for so long that i'm like why suddenly i do think like i haven't i feel like i have an individual relationship with god and somehow but like no one was telling me this i don't even know if god was telling me this it was some part in the back of my brain that was like i need to do all that i can and all that I can is to not masturbate. I like the version of God where you get to tell him that and he's like, I don't care about this at all. I didn't say that. I didn't say that.

I didn't say that in any of the religious ones. I didn't say that. Like, calm down. It's all good. You're okay. So that's what's so bizarre. It's like, I don't know. It wasn't like I had some divine message.

It was just like my own, the back of my own brain. Yeah. Which, for many people, you wonder if their own relationship to religion is the back of their own brain. But I'll leave that there and not go further. Sex and orgasm, I feel like it must have been tied to religion from the beginning just because it felt good. So it's like, this must be divine. This must have to deal with God. Before we could be like, oh, it's a rush of chemicals to the brain.

It's a magical thing. Like when you first discover it, you're like, this is magic. And I imagine that's how it became tied with like, that's because it's God. Oh. So one more thing on this topic, which is why I brought it up now 72 minutes ago, was that toward the end of my like, it's almost over. I have to release at some point. I have to.

I have to release at some point. I have to. I would like tease myself or like just dip my toes back in by turning porn on and like observing and like doing a little bit of like touching but wasn't full masturbation and not obviously completing. And you still stopped. I stopped. Because I've done that before where I'm taking a break and then i turn it on and within two seconds i'm like literally my head i go fuck it yeah fuck it let him die no no no no i didn't i didn't but then i just was like i'm this is too much and frankly like right um i don't know i don't know i don't know the next time that i'll be called to do that again

by no one but myself but it was it was an experience and to do that in the middle of a pandemic is a while oh my god you didn't say it was the pandemic oh my god it was it was like the vac like you know celebrities and politicians were getting the vaccine at that stage. Where, like, we couldn't get it or we were fighting to get appointments and stuff. Yeah. But, like, it hadn't happened. Like, I had not yet been vaccinated. Did you get early access to the vaccine?

A little bit. A little bit in the sense of, like like they said there were all of these things. And one of them was developmental disabilities, which technically someone somewhere told me that cerebral palsy counted. Because it starts around birth and is part of your development. Now I don't think of it now as developmental because I'm 31, but, or was 29 when that was happening, but I was just like, Oh, I can use it. Oh, I'm going like, I'm going. And, um, and no one questions you when you're standing there with a Walker and it's like, Hmm.

Okay. So they just, in the beginning they did like in, um, before like civilians were, that's why you brought a Walker to your vaccine. No, they opened the door for fats.

They were like, I remember you in line. They're like, we got to get them in right away. Bring them in, bring them in, bring them in. I do remember the, like going to the urgent care where I got all of my COVID,

all of my like irrational amount of preemptive COVID tests that nobody was telling me to get because I was so scared. I just kept going to the same urgent care. So then I find out that this place, like before regular civilians are getting vaccine access, was creating a wait list. Because at the end of the days, it was, you know, they would have these extras that were going unused.

So they had a wait list. So I remember going up and being like, you know, I'm technically a high-risk person, and, like, not giving any context, and just assuming that the walk would cover it, and this woman behind the desk was, like, she just lowered her glasses, like, and she just, like, begrudgingly scribbled my name down, and my brothers were laughing at me on the phone, they were, like, they're, like, Ryan, you look like a 12-year-old, you're coming in as, like, this 12-year were like, they're like, Ryan, you look like a 12 year old. You coming in as like this 12 year old being like, I'm, I'm high risk, which I mean,

there are people with disabilities are absolutely. They are. I didn't like, I probably personally was not to the degree that I was, uh, communicating. I was just so scared. Yeah.

Yeah. That I was like, I'll do anything and say anything to get access to this vaccine. And that ended up, that was not the place. Every time I called, they were like, we don't have them. We don't have them. So then I ended up going to the Javits Center or something like that. Yeah.

So you were born Cleveland? Clevelandveland ohio cleveland ohio and i was i was listening to to an interview with you a little bit about your uh your family your family sounds lovely they're lovely they're i mean they're they're they're loud and wildly inappropriate uh people but i i so am i so that's where I come from. And I'm making sound. I don't know why. I think I'm just because I'm holding this much. Go ahead. Take a sip.

You said, what was it, Syrian? Lebanese Syrian. Lebanese Syrian. Were they immigrants? My great-grandparents. Okay. But on both sides. Because you must get Jewish all the time.

I do. Yeah. Which I... I feel like we could be in a similar family tree. Yeah. We could. Not just the shirts. I'm just saying, if anybody wants to cast us, we could both be, and I know that you've

said this publicly, we could both be Jeff goldblum's sons yes so i'm just saying that oh i like this angle to the universe and i'm the gay one or we do the opposite and sure really really real acting challenge people would have a problem with that um but i don't know we're really on the fence we don't know how to feel about it i think about the gay thing about like me playing a gay... I feel like if you played straight next to me playing gay, I think they'd be like... It cancels each other out?

Right. And then it would be like, is he failing? Is he succeeding? I can tell you that I would fail. I think... I can play... I have played sexually neutral people, but if you want me to like or like I'm the politician.

My whole entire arc is that I have a crush on a girl. And that is fine if you allow me to be like quirky and zany and a little weird. But if you want me to be like this ultra macho dude who's like, come fuck me. Well, me too. Me too. I mean, I think all of us here. It's not like all of us. I could see you.

I could see you. Come fuck me. I think I worry. It would just be one of those things. I'd try to overcorrect. So I think if I had a romantic scene with another man yeah they'd probably be like okay slow down they'd be like i'd be too yeah i'd be like all over them to prove like i got no problem with this i got no problem with this i think to make up for all the years that all these gay actors could only play straight

because that's the only roles there were really that that straight people should be allowed to play gay characters but that's it for like a hundred years straight people cannot play straight anymore gay people only gay people can do both straight people can only play i have many roles if that happened i look look i when when we when i when i do think i'm just saying this to the industry that we should both play je Goldblum's son. Yes, I've been saying it for decades. I know you have, but I think we should do it together. It would be so fabulous.

And we can have sibling rivalry. I'm ready to pitch it. But the reason I thought about switching it, what flashed in my mind is the birdcage. Somebody saying, you know, and of course Robin Williams is a straight man and played the straight man to Nathan Lane who was the more flamboyant one. But if in 1995 or 6 or whenever that was, Nathan Lane couldn't wasn't publicly out. Yeah. And couldn't be. I didn't know he wasn't publicly out. Oh, I didn't know that either. No. And there's this fascinating

fascinating. When Robin Williams died, there was this fascinating, you know, the internet finds so many things, but there was this moment of press that they did on Oprah. They were obviously like, Robin Williams is a big star coming out to promote the movie,

and then who comes out to join him on the couch, but Nathan Lane. And Oprah spent almost that whole interview kindly, but like cheekily in a little bit of a, I love Oprah so much, so I'm just saying, I'm saying what I observed from watching this, but she basically was asking all kinds of pointed questions to sort of get him to come out

on her show. How pointed are we talking about? I don't remember because I haven't watched it for several years. How big do you like your cocks to be, Nathan? Oh, not that. Not that point.

I would be shocked if it was. It was 4 p.m. in syndication. It was 4 p.m. in syndication. But, you know, it was before Oprah went and played Ellen's therapist on the Ellen coming out episode. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that was a thing. And so it sort of was, it was fascinating to watch Robin Williams take in what was happening and then immediately deflect. He deflected so many times over the course of this interview to protect his friend at the time, at a time when it wasn't, you know, safe or advantageous for a gay actor to be out. And also it's a huge blockbuster,

probably one of Nathan Lane's first huge film, you know. It's got to be surreal to be celebrated to play a gay character and not be able to say you're gay in public. That's got to be crazy. And then have the most prominent talk show host ever in the world be like trying to fish it out of you on daytime. I watched it during the pandemic. It's so good.

It's so funny. Oh, Birdcage. I love that film. And the two of them are so good in it, like Robin Williams and Nathan Lane. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just so well-written. Nathan Lane's astounding. What's her name? She's always great, too. Diane, yeah. It's just so well-written. Nathan Lane's astounding.

What's her name? She's always great, too. Diane Wiest. It's a great cast. I saw Nathan Lane. I was watching Murders in the Building, which I am not. It's fine. I'm a fan.

There's one actor in it that I just feel like it's too weak. We all know who it is. It's too weak. Can't say it. I have a big fan base. You do have a big fan base. But. You do have a big fan base. No, no, not me. This person who I just think is a weak point in the whole show.

But Nathan Lane had like a scene in it where he has a deaf son. Yes. And like it was so fucking good. Yeah. And it was like he just brought it to the show that you don't have to bring it to. He brought it. He brought it, but also I want to say that the deaf son, played by James Cavalry, who is a friend of mine, is brilliant. And brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.

And should have also been nominated for a guest actor Emmy alongside Nathan Lane for that same episode that Nathan Lane won for. He's doing brilliant brilliant work and that season one episode is told entirely from his point of view as a deaf person yeah um and i'm so happy anytime i i obsessed with nathan lane i wanted him to be in one of my plays i want to work with him desperately, but I also am like, you know, James, who goes by Joey, uh, in friendly circles, uh,

also, I think really should have gotten an Emmy nomination for that episode. That again, he wasn't even nominated and Nathan Lane won the Emmy for that episode. About, and it was purely about the scenes that they were in together. Now, he didn't say that to me. I'm saying that to you in my disabled sort of activist lens.

It's like, well, I understand the name recognition. I understand wanting to give somebody who's had a long and illustrious career, but I also understand that when the story is actually about the deaf son, that they should be centered in the PR machine that gets people Emmy awards. Well, it's also like those Emmy guest star things are so weird because they're so different

than any other category where where it just it means celebrity like they they they should it means celebrity and and and there's no other thing where there it means that like because you could have a relatively unknown that's a series regular on a show and get nominated for like their first kind of thing but for those guest stars, they mean, here's the celebrity that popped up in a show and we're going to give them a thing. But it just means that they need to rename it because guest star is not accurate to what they give it for. Of course.

What? I mean, speaking of disability in the industry, I mean, talk about the history of acting is fascinating in terms of uh oh god well yeah i just think all the time and we've talked about it here before but but you know daniel day lewis doing my left foot was it's it's wild to think of there's been some good changes i think you know for the most part i mean uh how do you feel about the state of the industry we're still not there we're still not we're still not at the blanket place of this role is written to be disabled and therefore it's going to be played by a disabled actor

we're getting closer and the louder that people are when, you know, Brian Cranston, who played opposite a disabled actor as his son for many seasons on Breaking Bad, then goes and plays a quadriplegic in a blockbuster that nobody saw with Nicole Kidman. in a blockbuster that nobody saw with Nicole Kidman. People would say that you need Bryan Cranston to make that film, but nobody saw that film anyway. Yeah, sure.

So it's like, why, you know. But that wasn't some awards-bait film. It could have been, though. I'm sure they wanted it to be. I actually don't even know what movie this is. This was a, Bill Burr talked about it. I think it's called The Upside, I think. Yeah, The Upside. It's called The Downside.

Yes. Or maybe they changed the title. Is there any validity to the argument of we need a megastar? I don't think so. Uh-huh. I don't think so. So we were talking about we when we first brought up the gay thing of of can straight actors play gay roles um i i'm not i'm as a gay man uh not

ready to like make that hard firm also because i think sexuality is really is a fluid thing sure can change over time and i not that like it can change in the sense of like i'm going to suddenly become straight but i do think like people are attracted to who they're attracted to and like are constantly developing as human you know as humans and i also think that what we've seen with uh oh my gosh what is that charming show the uh i don't know the actor's name and i can't even remember the name of the show but show about it was the two young heart stoppers heart stoppers it's uh these young it's a british uh show about young gay boys, sort of a coming-of-age story. And it's extremely charming, a beautiful show.

And one of the main actors was getting a lot of heat on Twitter, I think, because who else? Where else? Yeah. About, you know know that they gave the opportunity to uh quote straight actor and he's just turned 18 or whatever upon the release of the show let alone when it was filmed like 18 years old i was 18 years old i was still a junior in high in high school and like had no idea i knew i was gay but i had no idea like i was in parma ohio just sitting and being silly and and having

dreams i can't imagine being 18 being thrust into the spotlight and then having this barrage of hate and so then he comes out he had to come out on twitter as bi sure he was like you've now made an 18 year old come out publicly i'm 18 like it's it's not it's not like he is an a-lister who did it to pick up a trophy he was an 18 year old kid who just wasn't ready so that's what's so complicated to me about gay versus straight. But also, if you're gay, I think one of the bigger differences

is also just that a gay person can play a straight person, a straight person can play a gay person, but like the idea with the whale, which was a big discussion. It's like you can put on a fat suit, but you can't have an overweight actor put on a skinny suit for this other role.

So there is not, at least with Gay and Straight, you can play both. But with these other things, you literally, there's no other opportunity. Right, right, right. And there should be, but not, I don't, I have not seen The Whale. I am a theater boy at heart, and I love Samuel D. Hunter as a playwright, but I have only read The Whale in the far past, and I did not see the film. And so I'm not going to comment on that. We are speaking to you from the day after the Academy Awards.

When you saw the play of The Whale, though. I didn't see it. Oh, you didn't see it. You read it. Oh, you didn't even see the play. I read it in 2015. And I also think reading it on the't see the play i read it in 2015 and i also think reading it on the page and the words that he's written he's a beautiful playwright i am in my head

creating the imagery for myself when i'm reading a play on the page so um you know and whether like the story in my mind is offensive or not, I don't know. It's in my mind, right? When you're reading something. But I've only read it. And that was in 2015 when I read it. I read it on the plane on my way to moving to New York because my first day job was at a play publishing company

and they said, here are scripts that you have to read. I miss reading plays. I used to read it all the time um what i need to say regarding disability and i think also very much uh regarding trans performers is that we just we do need to get to the point where it is not acceptable which is just simply not acceptable that a non-disabled actor would play a disabled role um and we also need to get to the point where uh you know disabled actors have the opportunity to be seen and considered for and then going even further as to book which is even more rare roles not originally written to be disabled um of course but can i ask though on your point though do you think of your personal philosophy which i'm sure is always evolving

could you play someone with uh cerebral palsy that was uh much more severe do you think like being in the category means that you like for example for example, let's say My Left Foot. Yes. Like, do you think you, that My Left Foot, if someone says, here's a Christy Brown, here's a guy with this incredible life. Yes. That's worthy of capturing on TV or film. Sure. do you think that you would go,

I think I should be considered for this role? Or do you think it should go to someone who is literally only capable of really working their left foot to do most of their tasks? Oh, it's so hard. It's so hard. My immediate is like, well, you know what? Let's not get too specific. Of course.

Better you do it than Daniel Day-Lewis. Yes. I currently in the year 2023, on March 13th, 2023. Every opinion should be time stamped on podcasts for now. I do think that I, yes, I think, and I've seen it happen, and I've watched friends do it, play people who have either different manifestations of the same disability or sort of adjacent disabilities that are not exactly the same thing.

Do I think that wheelchair users should be actively considered for parts that are written to be wheelchair users? Yes. Have I played chair users? Yes. And do I regret playing that role, which hasn't come out yet? Uh, there's a, it's a,

um, it's a mini series that's going to come out. I, I think later this year, it's currently titled retreat and it is by the, the duo that made the OA, Britt Marling and Sal Bob Monglidge. So,

uh, he was written to be in a motorized chair. But you auditioned for this role too, right? Oh, God. Oh, God. No, I didn't. But they cast a wider net in terms of disability. And I got the role.

And do I feel guilty? No. I don't. Of course. I don't feel guilty. But because I think that, you know, better than me than a non-disabled person. Yeah. But I think, and I think it's complicated because I'm also a writer and I, when I have plays

that have other people in them that are not my solo work, I want the story to be told the best way possible. That doesn't mean necessarily that I'm going to blast all of my morals away and start casting people for roles that they shouldn't be playing. But my family is a Lebanese-American family from the Midwest. And so when I'm casting the role of my mom and my dad, I'm thinking about people who represent my mom and my dad. Sure.

Not anybody who only is of Lebanese descent. I widen the net because I want somebody who's funny and biting and feels like they come from the Midwest. And so that might mean that my mom is played by a person of Iranian descent. Sure. Especially in the theater, I think you have to have some degree of like, well, look, it's casting a play. If it's A24, it's like, well, you can be really specific and you can get actors.

You can have options here to explore. But with theater, it's like if you get too specific in theater for a lower budget play, like there's not going to be that much to choose from. And you're then going to have to less to choose from and you're then gonna have to lessen you know getting exactly what you want feeling wise like there's a degree where we can't come with up with exactly strict hard rules well exactly and that's what i'm saying that's what i'm saying i don't think we're at the point we're still at the point where like celebrities can are playing disabled sometimes sure and so we need, the rules cannot be so strict yet.

And I have two dear theater friends who were awarded for their roles off-Broadway in a play called Cost of Living, Greg Muscala and Katie Sullivan. And they are not chair users, but they played two chair users in martina my yoke's play and they transferred with it to broadway and they're brilliant and their roles that they originated and have done you know all the sort of almost all the major professional productions of and nobody to my mind is saying well oh you know they shouldn't be

playing those roles but i do think that there are many people who whose primary mobility device is a wheelchair who should be equally considered sure yeah and equally and as often uh that guy from glee will alwayslee will always be so wild to me. I didn't know until like this year. It's only because he could have one dream sequence

where he gets out of the chair and does a funky choreography. But most of these in the chair doing choreo in all the dances. And I just, I feel like it would be a tough legacy as the world evolved to be like the thing I'm most known for is pretending I need to use a wheelchair. And here I am walking to my fan conventions. And maybe even if you have like a big chair user fan base.

I don't even know. Let me say some things. I've said this before. First of all, I'm going to preempt this by saying I was on a Ryan Murphy television show and I had a wonderful experience with Ryan Murphy Productions

and Ryan Murphy himself. He was nothing but kind to me and wonderful. So I'm a kid obsessed with Glee. Obsessed. Uh-huh. Did you ever watch Glee? Do you know anything about it?

I think I watched the pilot when it came out, but then I didn't watch anymore. I didn't, and I wasn't obviously in the business. I was in high school at Palmer Senior High. I was in college. Me too.

Truly, I just loved it. My family loved it. We went to the stadium tour. Was the stadium tour. You know what I mean? Was it good? Was the stadium tour good? Sure. It was fantastic.

I just saw Lea Michele in Funny Girl. I haven't seen her yet. I saw Beanie, but I have not seen Lea yet. Not saying that I won't. I just am in a play right now, so I'm not seeing other plays, including Titanic, which I will be seeing. And then we can be buddies. Can Titanic give me a little kickback for this fucking show?

I feel like we must be getting some people out there. So, okay, here we go. So I obviously was not in the business, so I didn't understand the politics of why it was so bad that he wasn't a disabled person. I'm just a kid from Ohio who wants to be a star but doesn't understand the very real systemic roadblocks to getting disabled people to become stars.

That being one of them, because they could have made a disabled actor a star in the year 2009 when Glee came out. So I really just enjoyed it, and I thought, oh, wonderful. I am being represented. I am a disabled person who's in high school, and there's a disabled person who's in there's i am being represented i am a disabled person who's in high school and there's a disabled person who's in high school even though he's not a

disabled all of this and then he gets out of the chair and whatever it was season two or season three to do that dance uh-huh and that is when i freaked the fuck out wait because i was so upset because i and i you know what i don't live in a wheelchair and I don't know and maybe there are some people who often fantasize about getting up and doing a show stopping number but I have dreamed of being on Broadway and being at the center of a kick line for my entire life and never once in those scenarios was I ever imagining that the walker would go away. Was I ever dreaming that I would be not disabled. I was just dreaming that there would be scores of hunky men who would throw me around the stage and make me feel attractive.

Like, you know, any great Broadway diva who didn't want to tap dance and just stood there at the center and smiled, that's who I wanted to be. And so the idea that the fantasy would exist, that his fantasy would be that he would get out of his chair, that was when it really crossed a line for me. Interesting. That's when it was hurtful. And then I started to realize that, you know, what it means for a non-disabled actor to get series regular money on a network show and all the residuals that come with that and all of the everything. Like we're talking literal, like life-changing gobs of money

that were then also denied to a disabled person. Yeah. And they get, because I remember one of the big emotional moments from the end of one of the seasons was Jane Lynch's character buys him, you know, a machine that lets him kind of walk. Do you remember this?

I do. I remember in college crying as this big goes, and I see those videos even still. They go viral all the time if people are like, oh my God, if I just had this kind of chair or these kinds of robotic legs. And again, I am an ambulatory person which means that i am able to walk and i i can choose my mobility device as i see fit and

so who knows truly what that means for someone but for someone who doesn't have that opportunity but i know many many many chair users would just rather the world be uh a little more accessible would just rather the the like there be a ramp and an elevator instead of stairs as opposed to having robotic legs that or a chair that allows them to go up steps yeah like because those things cost a bazillion dollars and and yeah disabled people do not have a bazillion dollars and like even if we did we shouldn't be paying for that we should be trying to make the world more welcoming well i have a question yeah when you was he in the stadium tour did you and and if so did he was he in a chair in the stadium tour? Did you, and, and if so,

did he, was he in a chair for the stadium tour? Like, cause that's what I don't, I don't remember. Okay. Cause I was gonna, I was gonna say that,

that would be very, I don't remember. I would bet that he, I'm just going to guess that he was, but of course I bet he, I bet he did the dream sequence in the stadium tour. Now I, again,

I really had a fabulous time working with Ryan Murphy productions. I want to say that i want them to cast me i and anything else i'm yes no yeah i've just been waiting to get a call back to ryan murphy productions um but and i will say that kevin mckayle recently said that if there was a glee reboot he could not go back to play the role of rd because it would not be appropriate for him to play a chair user anymore at this time. But this is what I've got to say. And I think. It's easy to say after the fact, just by the way. No, but he's a young.

Please, if I was that age, of course I'd take it. I'm not saying that I'm better than this. Because he got the money. He got the money. He got the money. The other thing, though. Oh, God. And look. And look.

And look. I think my manager, I'm saying this on a podcast because, and I think it's okay for me to say this on a podcast. I think my manager will be slightly uncomfortable that I'm saying this on a podcast. Jamar, I'm just going to cut out things. Shut the fuck up. No, I'm not going to cut it out. We're not going to cut it out because I can't believe

that it happened. I literally cannot believe that it happened. Ryan Murphy just won, rightly so, a brilliant humanitarian award at the Golden Globes in January.

Uh-huh. And, of course, there was a clip package of all of his many, many many many brilliant works and we get to a section in this clip package that seems like the narrator i can't remember who's narrating it i think billy maybe billy porter uh was talking about basically diversity and inclusion, right?

And there had already been clips from Glee earlier in the clip package. We're talking about the three minute video that is shown before Ryan goes up and gives his speech, which was a gorgeous speech and had everybody in tears, including me.

I wasn't at the Golden Globes. I'm talking about being in my underwear on my love scene. But I'm sitting and watching the Golden Globes. And Billy Porter's voiceover is talking about diversity and inclusion. And we get to the diversity and inclusion sort of segment of the Ryanphy clip package and who appears there not independent of the glee chunk is kevin mckayle in the wheelchair uh-huh in the diversity and inclusion section and i was very uh beside myself the fact that somebody allowed that to go to air. Having him represent that element.

Not just that it showed glee. But that we were talking about the opportunities that Ryan has given. Which he has. To me included. And many others. That's not a good example. That's a bad, bad, bad example. That's like if there was a reel of all the diversity in Hollywood

and it showed a scene from Tropic Thunder. Yeah, yeah. Robert Downey Jr. is not an example of the improvement of diversity. And I couldn't believe that that representation of the wheelchair was the kind that they thought that we needed. And there was the really giant, because there were a few clips from the politician in the overall thing. There was the giant, you know, egotistical part of my brain that was like, I was right there. Of course. There were many. If it's between you there were many there were many shots of me available yeah that's a good point yeah that's a good point to show kevin mckale in the wheelchair when they were discussing diversity and inclusion i wanted to scream and i sent a lot of texts uh-huh and um to you know

people and now i'm saying this on a public podcast and i hope that that doesn't mean i don't know if it was i don't know who made that package i don't know why the choices were made and i continue to have great memories of my experience on the politician if there is a season three ever i would i do not think you've spoken out of turn at all i think it was just it was just utterly. I could not believe, especially given like him having just said that he wouldn't come back to play the role. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I literally couldn't believe it.

And I also know that I was not the only disabled actor on that specific show. I am not the only disabled actor that Ryan Murphy has cast. So I'm like, you could have have and there were several others shown but the point is kevin mckayle is not a disabled actor yes you do not get to use him when you are modeling your commitment to diversity and inclusion you just simply do not yeah um i want to i want to talk before we before we go to our final segments about uh you know when we first met, you were doing, I believe you were doing excerpts from the show that you do. That's just you. I don't think I actually was.

I wasn't. I'll tell you what I was doing. But tell me what you were. Well, what was that show? Remind me. Are you single? The primary solo play that I'm known for and have gone to various cities around the country doing is called Hi, Are You Single?

Hi, are you single? And I love it, and it is still begging for an off-Broadway premiere, so if anybody wants to produce it in New York, I was just named a Critics' Pick in the New York Times for my current show, Dark Disabled Stories, so I really would love for this, my baby, my very first play to get its due as well. But no, the thing I was doing excerpts of was actually has turned into my first multi-character family play, which is called Good Time Charlie.

I was doing a monologue about my gay uncle and his best friend, which is what you saw. Oh, sure. I'd love to... I kind of just want to... Either from... Is it hi, are you single?

Or hey, are you single? Hi. Hi. You're a hi. You're a hi guy? I'm a hello. You are. Yes, you are.

Hello. What are you? I think I'm a hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Well, you are. Yes, you are. Hello. What are you? I think I'm a hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Well, you know where that, the title comes from the fact that I, at the age of 21, I was only spending, I was here for a week doing like performance art at a museum.

And, and, uh, and I sat outside the bathroom at the boiler room in the East Village and on the arm of the chair. And as men came in and out of the bathroom, I just said, Hi, are you single? Hi, are you single? As a way to try to pick someone up. And it did not work. And now it is the name of the show that has launched my career.

Were you optimistic about this? I was desperate. Were there some people, hi, hope you had a good poop? Did you go in with that plan or did you just kind of find it? No. I was in New York for a week and it was the end of the week and I just wasn't getting the attention that I wanted from men. So I really sunk to the lowest level and tried.

Yeah, right outside the bathroom too. I mean, that is the lowest level, I got to tell you. Yeah. So, yes. What were you going to say? Oh, so, okay. So the current show right now, you're in it as well. Yes.

You share some stories. So the current show right now, you're in it as well. Yes. You share some stories. It's a play of vignettes, autobiographical vignettes about my life. But it is, I qualified Good Time Charlie as my first multi-character play. But this is the first professionally produced play of mine that has multiple performers. There are three performers in the show. The show is mostly told from my point of view.

It is called Dark Disabled Stories. They are my disabled stories for the most part, but there are two other performers in it, Jicky Hearts and Alejandra Ospina, and they both also share a story from their, from their point of view, which I helped them craft and write. Could you, could you either,

either maybe one that was cut from the show, one that you decided not to tell or one from the show you want to share? I'd love to, I'd love to hear a dark disabled story if you don't mind. Yes. Thank you. Oh, wow.

You don't have to perform it fully. No, no, no. I won't perform it fully. And I don't remember the words anymore because it was cut several years ago. But it used to be in the show,

which is that I, 25 years old, back in Ohio for a visit. I was already living in New York for two years, but 25, still on my parents' health insurance, still I'm 26. So I go to their new primary care doctor because they're one that I sort of had grown up with, had retired.

So he is like this army dude bro. Like, you know, they sometimes call him G.I. Joe. He no longer is their doctor. But he had never met me. So I go in and my mom is in the waiting room and she's like, do you want me to come in with you? I'm like, no, I'm an adult. Like, I'll go in myself, but thank you, you know, for the health insurance and for paying for my health care. And I go in and I'm sitting on the thing thing which i don't even know how i got up there

it's always an ordeal whenever i have to go to a doctor and sit on the high thing oh right that seems uh yeah a place they should have figured it out but he walks in oh yeah medical the medical system and their treatment of disability is like a whole nother podcast that is much darker um but in in this scenario i'm just waiting and this guy comes in and he's like you know big muscles tall deep voice like so hot like oh my god i'm so into it and i'm like trying to be a little flirty with with this doctor who's like clearly like practicing in parma ohio like very straight and um so he goes um hi like oh my it's nice to meet you i see your parents yes i know and he and then he goes so i see here that you have cerebral palsy.

And I'm like sitting there, my walker is like next to me. And I'm like, yeah, sure, of course. Okay, so like what are you doing about your cerebral palsy? And I'm like nothing, like I'm not anything i don't it just is it just is it just is it's like this is this is this is my life like it's never gonna go away i don't know what you're talking about like what am i doing he's like are you seeing a physical therapist and i go well no you know because a physical therapist like in elementary middle and high school they like provided in public school they like provided weekly physical therapy and that was somebody named lisa boyd who i love who i really like clearly from like three years old to 18 19 you

developed this deep relationship with somebody. But as soon as I left that and like started to go to not provided for me physical therapists who I don't know, it became these people who are like, well, what are we here to fix? And what are your goals? And what are your like? We need to have goals because the insurance isn't going to cover it unless we're trying to make make something better. Interesting. have goals because the insurance isn't going to cover it unless we're trying to make make something better interesting and so i basically was like i don't want to go to a physical therapist because they're trying to fix me and there's nothing to fix like this is just the way that i move okay well are you seeing a neurologist because cerebral palsy is he didn't say this but cerebral

palsy is is neurological it's brain damage which is also probably why i count it as developmental when i wanted went for the covid vaccine um so uh it is brain damage and it's a it's not about my arms and my legs it's about the way that my brain communicates with my arms and my legs and so are you seeing a neurologist well no like i saw a neurologist when i was three and they had just diagnosed cerebral palsy we have um a distant relative who's a neurologist who we would go to for our neurology opinions but like no i'm 25 and this is my life and i'm not seeing a neurologist okay great well if you don't want to see it. You really should be seeing someone. And, oh, I told this a little backwards, and because I wasn't performing.

But I went in being like, I'm here for my primary care checkup, and I want to be a good, you know, like a good, knowledgeable gay person who is mindful of sexual health so I'm going to ask this person at my primary care checkup for a regular HIV test. Which is a thing that you do.

But I have not gotten to that point because he's obsessed with my cerebral palsy. So no to neurology, no to physical therapy. And he goes, well, how about excuse me, cut that out please i burped on your microphone please don't make us cut it out it will be the biggest nightmare of my entire life it was that was me guys that was me all right all right all right

i mean i'm sorry this is slower this is this is first time appointment. I mean, this is a first appointment. And I'm fully an adult. I'm like an adult. Yeah. And I'm just going to like find out about my cholesterol and my blood pressure and make sure that like I'm healthy. And he's obsessed with the fact that I have cerebral palsy. So no physical therapist, no neurologist. How about a physical trainer?

Would you be interested in a physical trainer? Oh, my God. And I went, oh, like, sure. Like, I, as any human does, have body image issues. And even though I'm a really skinny person, I'm like, you know, I have this, like, a little bit of belly fat that I'd be, like, happy to, like, tone up. Like, I'd love to develop some abs i've never had abs before like it would be great a physical trainer sounds great he goes perfect i know somebody who if you know if you're ever in cleveland for a longer period of time i know somebody um who specializes in training people with physical disabilities and uh and they're one

of my buddies from the army and i went oh i'm thinking oh my god i've an arm like an army like my the highest peak fantasy that this like army dude is gonna like whip me into shape and turn me into some muscle god and also like help with some balance and stability issues and things like that thrilled like i'm so turned on i'm like and maybe i can get a threesome with this doctor and the army but it would be your optimism is astounding my My optimism is so high. And he goes, and he goes, and she's really pretty. So you're going to have a really great time. Oh. And he says it in a way that's totally a male chauvinist pig, totally like objectifying his friend from the army.

Yeah. And like. Now, to be fair, you just told us about a threesome fantasy you had with this army guy too. Sounds like we're sexualizing him. I love that. I love. Thank you for calling me out. Thank you.

I had to do it. We just talked about a threesome with the doctor and the guy. But the idea of, first of all, I'm a kind of person who assumes that I just exude gayness. I mean, I guess I'm neutral enough that people who just meet me don't know but or he's so like deeply rooted in Parma Ohio that he could not conceive that there would be a gay and disabled man in his yeah yeah yeah you're one or the other. Like, dear God. So it was the idea that he assumed

that I would be turned on by a woman. So I'm sitting there on the thing and literally I'm just like, well, I guess I shouldn't ask him for the HIV test. And that is how the story used to end.

So you didn't ask for it because you were like, I can't. No, I didn't. I just thought, well, I'll just go to the – I got to let him think that. I'll go back to New York and go to the LGBT center. Yeah. Because he clearly doesn't have any comprehension of who I –

like my existence is so like novel to him that I can't ask for what i actually need and now i go to you could be like hey can i get hiv test because you know it comes from pussies too yeah that and that's true but it's true but he uh wouldn't have probably like grasped that i think if he heard you say the word pussies however it came out of your mouth, he'd go, oh, oh, you're gay. I'm so sorry. I'm certain that that retelling of that story sold no tickets to dark disabled stories at the public theater. But it is, you know, and it was basically just cut because there's another story that's similar to it. And I didn't need to play the same note twice.

But it was the first time as an adult that I entered a doctor's office alone. I did keep my mom in the waiting room. I have no idea how it would have been different if my mother was in the room. room i have no idea how it would have been different if my mother was in the room but it is not since been the first time like every time i go to a new doctor it's all of that and what is it that they want like in their mind what is it that they're they're trying to do is there like a vast when they say to you like physical training what are the goals like are there goals to be had i think you know it's some of it is physical maintenance like there are physical medicine doctors and you can go to physical therapy and i have a prescription for it that

i got back in august of 2022 that i have yet to um to fill because of my own baggage about all of it. But I could go to a therapist and be like, hey, I'm not really here to fix anything, but I would love to be able to push out of a chair a little easier. Or I would love to be able to... Just like bodily maintenance, because my body is going to age and has aged, and maintenance is different than fixing.

But it's never framed that way. It's never just like we're trying to keep you where you are. It's always about trying to make you better. And the answer is you can't make me better. Have you opened a textbook? Do you know what cerebral palsy is? You cannot. So that's just a misconception that they're,

that in their mind, they're like, well, I just think that the medical system doesn't know, doesn't certainly doesn't know how to make space for the multifaceted, multi identity and complex health lives of disabled adults because so much you know either you like are born with a disability and you like do everything you can as a child to like be the best disabled version of yourself that you can be and then you get to adulthood and it's like well i guess we

wait that's that's where you are or you have an accident later in life and you become disabled but actually it's like so much deeper than that um because a lot of people who are lucky enough to live to a certain age are going to become disabled in one way or the other. Sure. And I think in the same way that doctors are not the greatest at, and I'm not saying all doctors, and I know that there are some really great doctors, and I don't know why I'm preempting myself,

but the point being, a lot of times old people get written off. Yes. Especially if you're an old person with like a... COVID was the greatest proof of that. If you're an old person, and disabled people were written off there too. Younger disabled people were written off

and continue to still be. Every time you take off your mask in a public space, you're like basically telling disabled people that you don't care that they exist because there are still disabled people who are remaining inside of their homes because the outside world has moved on and they can't move on.

But if an old person is old and they're diagnosed with cancer i have experience of this in my you know family people throw their hands in the air and they're like well you're old so and it's it and then they don't want to give them any kind of hope or potential to be better and it's that's really messed up and the same thing happens with disabled people but we're not given the opportunity i'm like i don't know i'm really going on a rant here that's very off genre for this podcast and has nothing to do with my play that i'm here to promote but the point is that like i'm a viable sexually active gay man. I should be able to look at any doctor

and say, I want an HIV test or I want a prescription for PrEP. I assume that you both know what PrEP is. Right. Because we live in New York City. Well, guess what? I had three medical tests

over the sort of winter break because of some of some stuff that i have going on back home in cleveland because i wanted to be sort of near family for these tests and every time i went into an office they would look at my like medication list and go what is prep what is truvada what isvy? Not like how many milligrams do you, they would be like, what is this? And then right after that,

like, they're like, did you see the tits on that nurse? And it isn't that pretty nice. Do they not have TV though? I see ads for all of those. but in New York, I mean,

I just, I couldn't believe that they didn't know what it was. And it isn't for those who don't, it is an HIV preventative drug that hiv negative men take so that they can have really wonderful vibrant fulfilling relationships with men who are hiv positive and not contract hiv that's what it's for um and so i'm on it and many almost every gay man in new york is on it who is hiv negative and i guess not as many people are on it in ohio because every nurse had no idea that's crazy what it was but you add to that that i'm disabled and they just think I'm some alien. Yeah. And then, like, they'll say, like,

I want you to do this thing for this part of your body. And they don't realize that I have a disability and what they're telling me to do doesn't work because of the way that I move through the world. It's just an, there's this widespread, like we're just forgotten about and we're not seen as healthy individuals. So when we go for our regular checkup,

it becomes this exacerbating ordeal. And that's why I think a lot of people become very disabled. People become very attached to doctors who get it and get them sure and right now i finally have found in the last year thank god in new york a gay man like i'm seeing a gay primary care doctor did you seek that out yes more than i would you know if i were to seek out a disabled doctor they certainly exist but like to me it what i was getting was this sort of shock that i was wanting to be on top of my sexual health by being by regularly getting hiv tests and

being on PrEP. And I was being told, like, you don't need that because they couldn't conceive that I was having sex. So I needed to go to someone who was a gay man who understood that I am a gay man who have the same needs that every gay man has and that every man has and wants and desires. So put me on the pill that you're putting everybody else on yeah yeah that's good you found that doctor yeah it's also like yeah i hope he never retires because i feel like

as sooner it would be i'd go to a doctor and they would be like i got this trainer for you to ask them this guy you're gonna love it yeah but it is this thing of like it is this thing of like to being like if you're going for these other things and then they're trying to like be like well we're gonna ignore all those things here's how you can fix stuff that you're like that's just baseline what i am as a human yeah like so yeah yeah that's uh that's very frustrating yeah we gotta we gotta end we haven't had a doctor on this podcast i don't think i wait i'm like i we don't i didn't i'm just saying we have to end. Would your gay doctor do your podcast? Yeah.

How many followers does he have? He's not a celebrity doctor, but it was very hard to get a new patient appointment and I had to fight for it. Okay. He's very popular. That's good. But I don't know that he's popular on social media.

Sure, sure, sure. Red One. We're coming at you is the movie event of the holiday season santa claus has been kidnapped you're gonna help us find him you can't trust this guy he's on the list is a naughty lister naughty lister dwayne johnson we got snowman chris evans i might just go back to the car let's save save Christmas. I'm not going to say that. Say it. All right. Let's save Christmas.

There it is. Only in theaters November 15th. The Sephora Savings Event is here. World in my hand, I'll take this and that. And that. Ooh, and this. Oh, it's true. Find everything you want on sale at the Sephora Savings Event.

It only happens twice a year, and it's on now through November 11th. Find brands like Rare Beauty, Glow Recipe, Valentino, K18, and more, all for less. Shop at Sephora today. Limitations apply. Must be a beauty insider. See terms at sephora.com for complete details. All right, let's go on to our next segment this has got to stop this has got to stop so is there something i mean we've talked about a

lot of things i gotta stop can i be honest well two twofold sometimes i think sometimes russell i think about getting rid of this segment because i feel like we kind of do it yeah but then recently i had a video where with judy gold we skipped This Has Got to Stop. One of the comments was. Where was the This Has Got to Stop? No, This Has Got to Stop. That's my favorite part. Okay. Well, we're going to do it now.

You played the song. It was too late. What's the This Has Got to Stop? It could be specific. It doesn't have to be anything with a disability. Something in the world. Something in theater. Something in running a show something

that's gotta stop i uh i think i i think i got one uh if you want me to do my yeah let's let's yeah russell doesn't have one why well because why that's a good that's you know uh here's why here's why john marco usually we just have the guests do it usually like we don't then have this conversation every time give me yours and I'll come up with one no it's okay so it's a little bit of a story I needed to

here's what's gotta stop I book a lot of flights I book a shit load of flights and when you book a round trip you can't just cancel one leg of the trip you have to cancel the whole trip. And I have things coming in, coming out, canceled, mostly canceled. And I have to change things.

And so I call to see if I can get this one leg of the trip canceled. And they ask, they go, why do you need to cancel it? And I'm in a bad mood. I've been waiting with this music for 15 minutes, which we all know the music is a little loop of a little jingle because they want you to hang up because it's torture we all know this and and i they go why do you need to cancel i go my mom died and and i'm there with tovin tovin gives me a look like what are you doing and and i and you know he goes i'm so sorry for your loss i'm like yeah yeah so i need to cancel the the second leg of this this trip

the cancel the trip back and and he goes, okay, well, it's really simple. So we just, if you can submit your death certificate for your mother to unite. And I'm like, God damn it. Now I can't get the answer to how to get it because I've caught myself in this lie. So I have to be like, oh my God, she's breathing again. Okay, she's back. I still would like to reschedule the second part of this trip. Can you tell me what to do bottom line is did not get the leg canceled i had to just pay for it

but my this has got to stop is we know what you're doing airlines we know you could cancel one leg of the trip we fucking we know it we know it you just are doing this to fuck people make it so you can cancel one leg of the trip without losing the whole trip that's why this is i agree with that but my this guy stop is people need to stop lying to customer service reps you can't lie and just pull out your mom died to make this person who's not their job they're not making any money they're it doesn't matter what's the reason what's the reason because i need to reason? Because I need to cancel it. But now you're making him feel bad and you're like, do it.

I'm the 10th person that told him that his mom died. I know. It's a sad existence. I could tell by the way he gave condolences. He was like, I'm so sorry to hear. So sorry to hear about your mom. You have to disassociate with something. I don't like the lying about dying people as an excuse.

But they're not going to give it to you any other way. They're monsters. Not him. Not the customer service but delta airlines these are monstrous people i know so what am i gonna say i mean i don't know it's the corporations i don't know i think we all need to lie until it gets to a point of unsustainability and finally the people at the top it won't get bailed out they'll get bailed out so you're just giving up i don't know i'm out there doing something. I'm saying my mom's died. My dad's died. All my siblings have died.

I'm getting into it. I don't like it. I'm making a difference. I don't have... Okay, I'll... I know I was supposed to prepare. I will give you one. But I need to tell you about what you just said,

which is they also ask for the death certificates when you request a bereavement fare. So like when your mother actually dies and you need, and you know, if we were to go on Delta right now and try to book a flight for tomorrow, it would be like $1,000 or more.

So somebody actually dies and there is such a thing as a bereavement fare, which is supposed to be discounted, but you need to like prove that the person died and you need to go through all of these steps just to be able to get on the plane to get to your family. Why would anybody want to go through that effort at that time? At that time when all it's like, do I have a suit that is dry cleaned? Can I pack? Can I get home in the next two hours?

Like, there just needs to be, first of all, these last minute, I know people are overbooking now. But, like, there is such a need as a last minute flight. And not everybody has $1,000 to drop. Of course. Of course. and not everybody has a thousand dollars to drop of course and so I'm obsessed that they would ask for that rigorous documentation to cancel one leg

when they're also asking for it just to get you on a plane for a reasonable amount of money sure I think the problem is people keep lying about their mom dying. Yeah, and so it's your fault. It's your fault. I mean, I also have to say that in my casual observance of your social media,

I feel like that lie has appeared in repetition. It's too much. I know. You have to stop lying. I got to mix it up with my siblings and cousins. You're a liar. You're a liar. In a very specific realm.

Listen. Okay. Let me talk to you about This Has Got to Stop. Ready? This Has Got to stop. Ready? This has got to stop. Phones going off when I am performing live in a 99 seat theater. And I'm going to qualify this story with a somewhat of an understanding. somewhat of an understanding.

We are doing, we're doing relaxed performances, which means that people can come and go as they need to go. There's no, like, if, you know, and if you have a diabetes monitor, if your phone goes off for whatever reason and you need something, great.

Attend to your phone. Do what you need to do. Leave. It's okay. But I'm at the end of a 75-minute play on Saturday afternoon. The empathy that I have is that we had a long technical hold before we started.

So the show was considerably late because of some technical issues, which means that perhaps this individual, who was a much older woman, elderly woman, sitting in the front row, sitting in the front row had an alarm that I assume she thought would be go off after the play had ended. And because of the delay

it caused the alarm to go off in the middle of my final story, which is arguably the darkest story and the most intense story and it wasn't a phone ringing like the the call you know that will stop in 60 seconds yeah it was yes an alarm beep beep beep beep beep beep And my family is very intelligent.

Like, and they were in the third or fourth row. But I can't, when we had dinner at lunch afterward, they were like, Ryan, could you hear it? I was like, it's a 99 seat theater. And this woman was in the front row. Of course I could hear it. They're like, well, we noticed that you got a little louder, like into the microphone.

I just, I kept going. I was like, we had already delayed the start. Yeah. My co-star is a deaf actor. He has no idea what is happening. So I was like, I was like, what is Ryan doing? So I was like, I need to keep going so that he's not thrown off. And then I have another co-star who sits sort of just off of the platform.

I hope I will have the opportunity to talk a little more about this play. But there's three of us there. And Dickie is on stage with me. And he's deaf. And Alejandra is sitting off stage. And she has an iPad. And that is part of her, like, working station. So the woman, when the usher goes up to this woman, who clearly it is her phone,

decides to, like, point to my cast member, Alejandra, and be like, it's her. It's coming from her. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. and be like it's her it's coming from her oh my god and i'm like you know this show is for deaf people and people with hearing loss and for people with all kinds of disabilities but i think that like when dickie's phone goes off it lights up because dickie is a deaf man. And that is how Dickie knows his phone is going off. Like this woman just didn't have the directional hearing to know that the phone was in her bag, which was in her lap. And it just kept going. And I'm in the middle of

telling this story and I'm trying so hard not to be thrown off and I thought my parents were going to call the police on this woman. I could see their faces in the fourth row. They were going to die. Do you think she knew and was too embarrassed or do you think maybe she's deaf? No. I don't. Here's the thing about old people. Older people. And aging. They don't want to they don't want to acknowledge that they have become a part of the disability experience yeah so i'm trying to be empathetic but i tell stories about people in the play who like are older who wouldn't feel camaraderie with me,

don't think that anything I'm saying relates to them because I'm not the same as them because I'm just an older individual. So sometimes old people who experience hearing loss do not want to believe that that is happening. Yeah. Even though it is clearly happening. She heard a phone. She just didn't know that it is happening. Yeah. Even though it is clearly happening. She heard a phone.

She just didn't know that it was in her lap, in her bag. And we just all kept going. And the ushers kept coming back. They were like, I'm pretty sure it's you. I'm pretty sure it's you. And I'm watching this happen six feet away from me. And words are coming out of my mouth. But I have no idea what's happening. Of's happening because I'm watching what's happening in

front of me and knowing that I can't throw Dickie off. I could have said, hold, I could have just said, we already held at the beginning. We're going to hold again because this is too much. And what first hard for me is that I could see that of those 99 people, that 50 of them were completely taken out of the play.

Of course. Stopped hearing anything that I was saying. Oh, yeah. I need to be emotional. Had no idea what I was doing. Can I tell you what the bottom line is? Listen. This has got to stop.

Like, turn off your phones. Put your phones on silent when you enter a space. But listen, here's the bottom line. We've been saying this forever. We all know the rules. You turn off your phone. It hasn't gotten any better at all. If anything, it's gotten worse.

The only solution is you have to give them your phone. Because let me tell you, even the comedy seller. It didn't work. But the comedy seller. It didn't work for Jesse Williams. I know. I know. Comedy seller, you have to put it in a bag.

You seal it up. Guess what? People's alarms go off. Happened to me last night. It's in the fucking bag. They can't turn it off. So now they wait too long. Then they have to leave.

There's no solution no the only solution is if they looked at everyone's phone people aren't gonna want that I think the only solution is sorry you gotta put your phone in this box over here

if you have an emergency we'll see you over here we gotta make clear or it would be funny if they made people put their diabetes thing in a yonder pouch

but like I don't know there's or a see through case so that if someone calls you you can see it but like it's never gonna get better

we've been begging people this for so long and it is not getting better I know and I've had it happen before but it's usually like it happens for 15 seconds and then it's over

this went on sustained for at least three minutes. I'm shocked. I've not had one phone go off the whole time I've been doing Titanic. Or I haven't heard one go off. Yeah, it's hard to hear over your line delivery. Alright, let's go

on to our last segment. You better count your blessings. You better count your blessings. You better count your blessings. Russell, give us a blessing. Yeah, I had some family come to the shows this weekend, my brother and my sister-in-law, and then a couple cousins and my aunt. And they were all kind of,

I got to see them all on the same day and hang out with them. And it was like, I'm not particularly, um, like overly close with my cousins and my aunt that came, but I had like such a nice time with them and it felt like they were so supportive. It was so nice of them to come and book a hotel and stay and come see the show.

And it just felt like it was, it was a really nice supportive thing that I, I was surprised by and was, it was a nice, I'm thankful for them for, for doing that. It was kind. Wonderful.

That's very nice. I, my blessing, I, I, they added these brunch shows to the comedy cellar and you do it on a Sunday and you get free, a really good free breakfast.

And I went with Tova one time. And again, I've just not social. I just like did the thing where like people were sitting at the comics table and like people were hanging out and i just sat to the side of my laptop yeah and working and tova was like and looking at porn and tova was like uh you know you go get in there get in there and at the time i did not take it well i was not like that is great advice yeah i appreciate it and i don't feel anxiety about the thing that i already failed And at the time, I did not take it well. I was not like, that is great advice. I appreciate it.

And I don't feel anxiety about the thing that I already failed. So then the next time, this past Sunday, I got in there, sat down, talked to a bunch of comics. It's not easy for me. It's still a struggle. Something in me fights against it. But I feel like yesterday, I ended up doing five spots at the Cellar because some people were dropping, and I felt like I really took steps towards just feeling more at home there. Yeah.

That's a good feeling in this very lonely kind of stand-up comedy world. Ryan, do you have a blessing? And then we'll go into plugs so you can talk about your play. I know I'm so desperate. I'm just thinking about how the public theater is going to faint if I don't talk about it.

Oh, don't worry. Well well my blessing is related to the play because I also we just opened to great reviews and I have to thank my all disabled cast Dickie Alejandra and my creative team of brilliant collaborators, led by my director, Jordan Fine, who has been with me on this play for four years and pushed me, especially in the depths of the pandemic, when all we had was Zoom, to make it better, make it stronger,

always pushing the script forward and pushing me forward as an actor. And I'm just very aware that this is not a one-man job. Even if it was a solo show, it wouldn't be a one-man job. It is not a solo show, but it is. There's a lot of people that have poured themselves into 75 minutes of me talking about being horny and me talking about being disabled and my own life experience, which I'm sure comics have their own teams, but I think that when you go out on the road,

it's probably just you booking with Delta. And I have... Just be of my mom's spirit. I have scenic designers and costume designers and lighting designers and sound designers and all of these amazing artists have just threw themselves into making this beautiful play. And we got a Critics' Pick.

And reviews don't matter unless you get a Critics' Pick. And it really matters. And they run away with it in their marketing. I hope that it, you know, not only leads to more opportunities for me to tell my stories and do my work, but also is an example for people to, you know, platform disabled artists more and more. in comedy, I just think that we have been devoid of our stories for so long. And often when they're told, they're told without us present. And then sometimes even if we're present, it's not through the right kind of lens. And so just understanding that disabled creators know how to tell their own stories and that this win that me and my team have just experienced, I have hope and gratitude that its reception

will open more doors for more people. Beautiful. Now tell our listeners, and we'll put it in the show notes as well, all the links, where can they see this, how can they get tickets, all these things.

Dark Disabled Stories is produced by the Bushwick Star, which is a wonderful, edgy, fantastic incubator of theater in Bushwick, Brooklyn. They are currently in between homes and residential not residential but uh venue they're between venues and so they have partnered with the public theater which is historic and needs no introduction but that is where hamilton was born that is where hair was born and a chorus line and all these musicals and we're not making a musical but it is uh called dark disabled stories and it is a series of

autobiographical vignettes about autobiographical vignettes about my my life as a New Yorker with cerebral palsy and the foibles that happen when truly the entire infrastructure of a city is not built with you in mind. The transportation system is not built with you in mind. Not at all. I can't even imagine. Oh my God.

And even sometimes and often, the hookup apps and dating apps are not built with you in mind either. What's the best one for that? What? What's the best app that pays mind to that? There are none. None? Yeah. No, no, no.

Disability is not thought of on apps at all. But it's a horny show. It's a sexy show. It's a transgressive show. And it has two wonderful performers that are performing alongside me, Dickie and Alejandra. And it's a radically accessible production,

which means that there is open captions, there is ASL performance, not interpretation, but performance, and also audio description for blind and low vision people at every show. So this is built into the design, this is built into the architecture, this is built into the design this is built into the architecture this is built into the script which means that if you are blind or low vision or deaf or hard of hearing you can come at any time and see the show and not have to wait for the one performance in a run that is catered to you specifically. And we also have expanded wheelchair seating and mobility seating in the front row.

Now, when that phone went off, did the people interpreting, not interpreting, but performing, did they let the deaf people know, like, there's a disaster up here in the front row? That's why I qualified it. Dickie is... Dickie...

This is great for me to explain. Thank you for the opportunity. I'm playing Ryan in this play in which it's about Ryan's stories. Dickie is also playing Ryan. So Dickie, who is deaf, is telling my stories in first person. Ah, very cool.

Up until the point in which Dickie becomes Dickie and tells Dickie's story. Alejandra is Alejandra the whole time, tells her own story in the middle of the piece, and is audio describing for everyone. So the access is built into the performance. I see.

Which also means that, like, yes, there is a... We are... Our assistant stage manager manager one of our assistant stage managers is fluent in asl and that was purposefully done so that there could be communication on the deck in case of an emergency if something were to happen but i really do think that when the alarm went off no one felt it was an emergency enough to stop including me i would have been the one to have made the choice to stop it sure in which case there would have been somebody somebody would have come out and informed dickie that this was happening but dickie

was in the middle of his performance in which we are in very uh sort of lock step in terms of timing you know he'll sign something as I say it and stuff like that. So that's also why I was really conscious of not wanting to throw him off. Of course,

I think I feel like the deaf people, they go like, that show was fantastic and the people, friends of those who are not deaf were like,

are you serious? That was a disaster. They really have a fully different experience. So that's interesting where you're like, well, for some people

this show is fine. It was amazing. Nothing happened. Nothing went wrong. But, for some people, this show is fine. It was amazing. Nothing happened. Nothing went wrong. But come and see us, Dark Disabled Stories. You can get tickets at publictheater.org slash DDS. That's capital DDS. Publictheater.org slash DDS.

And it plays until when? Currently running through April 2nd. We just got our first week extension and there's more room to extend if ticket sales are strong. Excellent. What do you want to plug? To the camera. Look at the camera. Follow me on Instagram at Russell J. Daniels and come see Titanic at the

JL Roth Theater Tuesday through Sundays. And for me, listen, listen, this Saturday we are in Houston with guest Steph Tolev. Please, please come. I've made a whole video promo. That's how desperate I am.

Russell is flying, flying far. It's not short. Not to Connecticut. Not to Pennsylvania. We're going to Houston. And then we're really excited. We're flying back incredibly early to record an episode with Caleb here on. Return guest Caleb here.

I'm very excited for that. So what I was going to say is go to Houston. Weekend after that, I'm going to be headlining in Louisville at Planet of the Tapes. And then April 11th in Portland, Helium Comedy Club. It's a Tuesday night. So I need all the help I can get. Tell your friends in in Portland Helium Comedy Club it's a Tuesday night so I need all the help I can get tell your friends in Portland

Helium links in the show notes and you know go see go see Dark Disabled Stories go see Titanic because we all know

that theater is dying this is The Downside. One, two, three. Downside. You're listening to The Downside.

The Downside. With Gianmarco Ceresi.