The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #143 Pet Taxidermy with Divya Anantharaman

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

Taxidermist Divya Anantharaman joins to share why she finds ketchup more gross than an animal’s insides, the electrocuted lizard that inspired her artform, the challenges of recreating a cat mid-jump or a mouse’s genitalia, the protocols for putting a dead pet in the freezer, jokes she’s tired of hearing you make about her profession, and why there’s nothing more queer than taxidermy. Russell and Gianmarco also discuss where they’d like they’re stuffed bodies to go if they can ever find a country where that’s legal.  You can watch full video of this episode HERE! Join the Patreon for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and MORE. Follow Divya Anantharaman / Gotham Taxidermy on Instagram & TikTok For more information on Divya Anantharaman's taxidermy classes, visit https://www.gothamtaxidermy.com/classes Follow Gianmarco Soresi on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, & YouTube Subscribe to Gianmarco Soresi's email & texting lists Check out Gianmarco Soresi's bi-monthly show in NYC Get tickets to see Gianmarco Soresi in a city near you Watch Gianmarco Soresi's special "Shelf Life" on Amazon Follow Russell Daniels on Twitter & Instagram See Russell in Titanique in NYC! E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Paige Asachika & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Dave Columbo Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Part of the Authentic Podcast Network Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the downside. A little note on this episode. The fucking Rodecaster Pro, which I recorded on and do a backup of on GarageBand, had a malfunction. So about 20 minutes in, it started talking. I'm here with my girlfriend. This is at night it's very painful Tova how would you describe what the sound was that it made please recreate it that was a pretty accurate representation I would say so it's very it was a tough day

tough day but it was such a good episode and I literally went to a taxidermy class just to understand this guest. Uh, we basically are using the camera audio after 20 minutes in. Um, I think it sounds decent enough. Uh, stick around though. Listen to the thing if you can. And, uh, I, I bought a new machine. So, uh, so yeah, listen to the thing if you can and uh i i bought a new machine so uh so yeah listen to this one it's it's it's a good one especially if you like that uh morgue episode this is like that but with animals this is the downside welcome to the downside my name is jim marcus i'm here with my co-host russell daniels Hi. And Russell, why don't you introduce our guest for us? You just introduced yourself to us.

Divya Ananthraman. Okay, listen, I didn't warm up. Ananthraman. Ananthraman. Ananthraman. Good work. Hey, listen. It wasn't a trap.

No. I just wanted to hear you. Well, I've just never introduced a guest before, so it felt like a trap. Sure, sure. I can see why you think that. You didn't let me warm up either. I came in. We just immediately started recording. You like to do scales before the podcast? see why you didn't let me warm up either i came in we just immediately you like to do scales before the podcast me me me me me me yeah is that what

you're doing um no my what are you doing what's your go-to i i you know i'll be honest i don't warm up and i should i'll i'll sometimes do um okay this is really embarrassing i do this i don't know why i don't know why but i do that's for consonants so i'll do that and then i'll do a couple lip tr I do that's for consonants so I'll do that and then I'll do a couple lip trills and that's kind of it

and I'm like good she's good to go that's not like beatboxing a little bit and I'll do a few of the lines because it's a little higher pitch when I talk you know

full out you're like backstage no no no but you know like just a few of the talking lines that's one of his lines that's his

yeah yeah yeah that's basically the whole character this is a wild day we're joined by our recently I can say this right unemployed podcast producers so not really unemployed just more focused of an employee

for the downside Paige Asachiko welcome to the downside as well thank you we have so much to talk about and I'm hoping Divya Russell has Welcome to the downside as well. Thank you. We have so much to talk about. And I'm hoping Divya Russell has a weak stomach. And it has always been my fantasy for him to throw up during a recording session. I think I'm going to be okay with it. We'll see.

Yeah. We'll see. He was not here. It doesn't have to be a garbage thing of food right there. Okay, okay. It looks like cabbage, ripped up cabbage. Listen, I'm working on the studio. Paige came early to help give notes in the studio,

and we concluded we need to hire someone else. That was the conclusion. Paige looked around. Paige had me take this light off, and then she walked around, and she said, yeah, I don't know. And it's chaos. Yeah, okay. So, okay, I don't know. And it's chaos. Yeah.

Okay. So, okay. So a lot of things to talk about. Yeah. This cabbage. The cabbage is an issue. The pillow is covering up the cabbage. I was going to say if the cabbage is an issue.

I don't know if the rest of the topics are going to be. Exactly. Get ready. Get ready. You prep yourself. I wanted to talk about, before we get into so many downsides to discuss, I haven't seen you in two weeks. I know. Not that you've called or anything like that.

You just tell me about what new celebrities coming to Titanic. That's the only update I get from Russell. Very cool. Very cool. There were a lot. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

So I, so now Tova found this. This is not me who found this, but Tova, my girlfriend, she, I'm not sure how she found it. Maybe she was Googling me, but she found this website called LPSG. Okay. Which I think is a famous, it's like a famous gay chat room website.

Does it stand for something? Yeah, and I, it looks like it's like a famous gay chat room website. Does it stand for something? Yeah. And I, it looks like it's just a regular chat room, but then the ads are people sucking. Okay.

And there's a whole, there's a whole chat about comedian Gianmarco Ceresi. And it's pictures of me from my Instagram story, from Tova's Instagram story, lounging,

super hot, kind of nerdy nyc comedian some of them are really nice some of them are sweet i love this guy uh uh he just needs to show dick okay uh this one says he can dance this one is so cute he can dance hip-hop too love how secure he is in his non-toxic masculinity. He seems, if only all straight dudes were as hilarious, cool, and sexy. This one says, I need him to cum on my face. This one, they had a picture of me. I eat plain snow cones, and I get

a lot of shit for it, because I like the taste. It's not even an eating disorder thing. I like the taste. You like ice. They posted me licking the ice. Licking the ice licking the ice that's fabulous and it's multiple people

it's not just one person yeah it's different users yeah different users and you know Tova could be one of them like trying to boost up

my profile I don't know she's very supportive of me but a lot of people comment because I sit sometimes strangely on the podcast and they think I'm doing it to be a tease. And I am.

And then I posted that I saw it on Twitter. I was posted like, whoa, what's this thing? And immediately someone in the chat was like, he's on to us and shared my tweet saying that I found it. So not so much a downside, but it's just like, sometimes I'm like, how much do I lean in? Like I could do. I like that one comment about being like, he just needs to show Dick.

Like you're close to doing it. Do you know what I mean? Like, like you're in, like you're on euphoria or something and filming multiple sex scenes. Like you're not in a position where you're ever really going to be, you know, close to,

maybe you are, you know, who knows? Who are. Who knows? But I could lean in more. Like we could do the whole podcast just like this. That's definitely going up there. Hold it for a little longer.

Here's the question. I'm not going to post this on Instagram. So they would have to watch the full length video. And take a screen grab from that. Yeah. And let's see if this makes it onto the site. Let's see how long it takes them. Let's see how long it takes them, okay? If we did the clip and somehow

we got this shot in there. Let me just do like a, let me just do, just in case we use this because, uh-huh. Yeah, sure. Okay, great. we can use that so you know I didn't look up your name on that site maybe I could maybe he needs to

so it's very nice it's very sweet but sometimes I worry they come to a comedy show and they're not there to laugh. They're not there for jokes. They're there to jerk off. That's kind of fabulous, honestly. Hey, take it where you can get it, man.

You know? Yeah. All your fans can't be there to laugh. I think between the two of us, we probably have the gayest fan base of two straight men in the entire world, given Titanic and this. Given what I'm doing, Titanic and this, yeah did i did a show with bianca del rio do you know bianca

del rio and and it was so honestly it was really cool about it this was going to be my blessing at the end was that i i knew because they were all like drag fans and queer kids and and i was wearing a music man sweater and they all commented on it before the show and I was like, oh, I could talk about theater and I did crowd work about what was

the last show you did and then like roasted that show in a way that you could only do if you know the whole audience is theater kids.

So it was very cool, very nice. Yeah, that's cool. So that's my, that's the biggest thing that's happened to me was gay guys talking about me online.

Oh. I was with my sister just now. Someone on the street asked for a selfie. And guys, listen, if I'm with my family, please do that more often because it felt really good. It does feel good.

It just felt like to my sister, I'd be like, hey, maybe return my calls more often now. I had family come that I don't talk to that much you know like it's an you know not like out of malice but just like they're family members I don't see a lot they came to the show this weekend and I was like you know afterwards come down

stairs and we'll say hi and blah blah blah and then what was great is they got to like see me come out and like you know, Neil Patrick Harris is at the show. Yeah.

So I'm meeting him. They're seeing that they're like, I'm having to like take pictures with other people and sign autographs and things. And so it's a nice, you know, you're like, you're like, and also it doesn't really happen that often.

So it's nice to, when people that, you know, are there, see it to make them think that it happens all the time, but it doesn't really happen that often. You know, I seen it. So I've known Russell a very long time.

And I was saying to Tova the other night, I feel like I've seen, not in a good way or a bad way, but your natural ego blossom. As the show has gotten more

successful and more celebrities come in. I've seen you're just like, you know your worth. Okay. You know your worth. What is that? And we'll see where it goes. How do you see that?

We'll see where it goes. Again, I'm not saying good. I'm not saying bad. But how do you see it? But I've seen like, you know your skills more now. You know what it's worth. You have value.

You yell at underlings. I yell at under You have value. You yell at underlings. You, you have. I yell at underlings. I don't yell at underlings. There was, there was a. Wow.

I mean, I, I, yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Any day now, you're going to be yelling at Paige. You're going to say, Paige, you're blocking my camera. I'm going to go, Paige,

where was the seltzer when I walked in? No, no, it's good. It's a good thing. But it's just like, I've witnessed, I've just known you for so long. I've seen the in. No. No, it's good. It's a good thing. But it's just like I've witnessed, I've just known you for so long. I've seen the transformation into a monster.

Into a monster, yeah. I just want to be successful so I don't have to ever take the subway again. That's my only goal in life, really. That's pretty rich. To never take it again, he lives on 259th Street. I don't think it's that rich.

I don't think we're talking. I would be willing to spend most of my income on that. Like, I just think I don't want to ever take the subway again. I'm sick of it. You know? Not because of any sort of people thing. Just because of the MTA. You know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're fine during the day. But after shows at night, I don't have to rely on that anymore. No more. So, we're very excited to have you. And one of the reasons we have Paige, other than her losing her job,

is that... Quitting. Quitting my job. Quitting, quitting, you sure? And Paige and I took your class. Divya is a taxidermist. That's the right term? Yeah. Taxidermist. And you may, for people in previous

episodes, know my Jerry, what did I end up calling it? Jerry Cheesefeld? I don't think we landed on a good name. It was horrible. I tried using ChatGPT, this thing that's going to take over everyone's jobs, and that was the best that came up with Jerry Cheesefeld.

And this is a real mouse. I partially wanted to go because I've had a lot of dead mice, and I always get scared of touching them. I remember once I put tongs – tongs, but the tongs weren't long enough. So I tied two broom handles so like big big tong chopsticks of sorts to pick it up and move it into a trash can

and even that I almost threw up why wouldn't you just wear paper towel and feel it oh but you were worried

it was still alive no it's just like it's I'm squeamish I'm squeamish and that's why I wanted to do this so Paige

do you have yours Paige has Paige has a mouse as well I have mine right here. You provide the mice. You provide the mice. They didn't have to bring in dead mice.

No, absolutely not. I guess that would be a requirement. There's not a lot of great clothing options for these mice. It's such a small size. I thought it was going to be way bigger. So I bought a doll size black sweater but as you can see from the side it looks pretty fucked up yeah page page got me a mic stand and it was it was about the size for like an eight-year-old child can i can see this

i want to get right so wait what is this is an artist is this jerry salts perhaps perhaps i have the i have the background for it too. She looks great. This really blared out by the light. Oh my god. Wow. Oh my god. That's so great. I had Dolly, the AI art thing

generate photos or paintings of the mouse. So I was going to have the mouse looking at itself in a very existential kind of way. Of the mouse. So I was going to have the mouse like kind of looking at itself in a very like existential kind of way. I love it. I love it. So you uploaded that mouse's image to Dolly to like make it or did you just prompt it? Because I think that's the first taxidermy.

If you put the image of the taxidermy. I don't know anyone else that's uploaded an image of their taxidermy from their class into an AI. No, I didn't. I didn't upload the photo. I just gave it a text prompting, make a surrealist painting of a mouse wearing a black turtleneck with glasses. And that's what it came up with. Wow. I'm trying to think of the illustrator who could have eaten lunch if you had

gone to them instead of the Jolly. But that's the point. Cause I worked in art. So there's this huge discourse about like the legitimacy of AI art. So it's like an art critic. Like this mouse is wearing a very stereotypical, like art critic kind of outfit. Are you too worried?

I'm so sorry. No, no, no. I'm done. I had an AI question for both of you. Do you see what I was saying earlier about the ego blossoming? Do you feel it? He's already walking all over me.

I had a question about AI for both of you. Do you feel like one day you'll look back and be like, maybe we shouldn't have been cutesy like putting in prompts for AI for these like little rat things. You think as the Terminator is about to kill us all, we'll look at the data,

the code, and he'll be like, it was the mouse entry. I mean, I just think that how casual you're using it in your life right now. Like, you know, I used it for one cheese.

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm having a conversation. I'm just throwing it out there. You know, that i could see us all doing this for the next five years of like just like oh i use this to do this idea well let me ask you this you you've had uh sometimes some theater events will happen patty lupon leaving equity where you've thought of like oh let's come up with a line for the show uh-huh do you think you're at a place where you'd be like let's see see what Chet JPT has to say about Patti LuPone taking a shit on a Times Square Elmo?

No, I haven't thought that yet. But I mean, maybe I will. Soon. As opposed to my suggestions where I'm like, why don't you say this? And you're like, wait, I can't say that. Yeah, yeah. So Divya, tell me, when you were younger, were you not grossed out by things? Because, okay, taxidermy, my takeaway from taxidermy, it was fascinating.

We took a class. We took a class, Gotham Taxidermy. What is it called? Yeah, that's my name. That's my business name, yeah. Gotham Taxidermy. Yeah. And we did not have to skin the mouse.

We saw the process of skinning the mouse which i'm not sure i could have done but we got the skin and we we if we put the the skin around a mold and then got to craft it from there so it it kind of made it so it wasn't too i didn't have to challenge myself too much it was tough in the beginning a little bit you were very squeamish in the beginning in the beginning you showed us skinning a mouse and that was i was bent over i was going i was going live live skinning it like or a video skin something while it's alive no sorry i mean like were you no no no no yeah i meant it's obviously dead i'm saying were you demonstrating live yeah or okay so you had a dead mouse that you were okay yeah i was showing them how to take the skin off.

Wow. I think what was amazing was like, I always try to look at each, the classes are small for many reasons. Yes. But one is so I know what each student is feeling and doing. And I saw you, you kept inching back and back and part of me just wanted to inch the table forward and forward

and be like, you're not going to see anything. Now let me show, because I did take some pictures. I want Russell to really understand what we're talking about here. Oh, did I not even, maybe I didn't even take pictures of the, oh, I didn't take

pictures of the worst part. Did you take any of the worst part? The skinning. Oh, no, I didn't. Were you not grossed out by things when you were younger? Not really. So it wasn't, I'll say, so that wouldn't be something that grossed me out. Like something that would gross me out when I was younger was like ketchup. It's just disgusting.

Like it's so gross. Now I understand. That was like nasty. Ketchup all around or ketchup out of the bottle and it's kind of watery. It's just like watery stuff. Yeah. Like that's really nasty or like, um,

I mean, mustard is okay cause it tastes better, but like ketchup, it's just that ketchup is, yeah, it's bad. It's just really bad. I love ketchup.

But do you understand the feeling though? I love the idea of ketchup, you know, or like sponge, like a mystery sponge. And like, you don't know where it's been. You don't know if the person like

you know if someone's coming over i'll like i'll have put a new sponge out in the wrapper so they know you know that's nice i'll do that because like i don't want them to see your sponge you know that's like for me level of intimacy you have to see someone else's sponge but like mystery sponge that kind of stuff grossed me out. Whereas like seeing something's insides was more of like, okay, this is just what it is on the inside. Real quick though,

for me, my gross out thing when I was younger was feeding the cat. It was the taking the little thing of cat food. Feeding the cat still for me. And then the sound it makes where it goes, or like,

I just do it as quick as possible. And then you got to, oh, oh. You're like canned meat oh it's in the sink you gotta oh god but

you've become very comfortable I think with like poop because if you're with pets like I hear you talk about poop and things in a way

that I don't think I'd feel comfortable with you've gotten over that yeah well but also like in general you're dealing with the poop outside

where there's air and you can like if the the times when a dog's been sick and pooped inside that's when it's like difficult yeah you know because it's not easy poop that way either it's it's you know it's running you know it's it's it's moving so Oh, man. So do you remember a fascination when you were younger with like, what's the difference between you and a serial killer? A lot. I dress a lot better. Of course. Ted Bundy was pretty sharp.

I was going to say, people must be shocked when you say you're a taxidermist. I think they are. I was going to say, people must be shocked when you say you're a taxidermist. I think they are. And a lot of people make the serial killer parallel, which is pretty sad because I do this because I care about animals a lot and I'm fascinated by them. Whereas serial killers are doing it as practice for something nefarious. You know what I mean? for something nefarious. You know what I mean?

But don't you think, I'm not saying that, but don't you think the one thing that you might have in common with serial killers is a comfort, like I am so grossed out by a dead body

or the insides that I would never, I would never participate in anything. But you did. Well, I did. I pushed myself. I pushed myself.

That's great. But I also imagine that serial killers and taxidermists don't have that squeamish immediate reaction that a lot of other people do or they couldn't participate right well i guess it's not like a gut reaction like there are people who like if they see blood they'll like pass out and there's stuff like that you pass out um no i'm okay blood okay yeah but like yeah it's not like very squeamish and the other thing too like even with the skinning i'm taking it out in one piece so it's not like you know that body comes away in like one little package i don't know if you remember that i remember it it's in my dreams every night so but it's not like um dissection like something like a surgeon has to do where they're

like going in and checking each organ or something like that or something like a pathologist has to do where they have to go in and like dig out like a disease body of some sort um i'm just kind of removing everything in one little package and putting it away um Where it gets grosser is probably, since I do a lot of work with museums and conservation groups, the specimens they'll give me usually have had some kind of trauma. I work on mostly birds. So if there's a bird that has passed a window collision,

that's really traumatic to see in many ways, because you see the uh the internal trauma inside and it's a lot more um bloody or you know just stuff isn't together inside so when you see that um it's a lot worse than like in the classes like for the mouse class for example those are pet mice that have passed on or they're frozen reptile food or something like that. Yeah. That has passed, like, from, I know for the reptile food, they've used the etchoo to dispatch

them, but for pets, like, if it's a deceased pet, it hasn't had, like, you know, it didn't slam against a skyscraper at, like, you know, 80 miles an hour or whatever, you know, however fast it's going um so there's like a difference there so like that is what makes me more upset i guess i guess it's more emotional rather than like physically the reaction and what's the moment is it because you got a package while we were taking this class oh that's right you get a package and it's is it a cooler with a and it's it's a it's a bird and the's, is it a cooler with a, and it's, it's a, it's a bird and the head is smashed in and you have to stretch it out.

Yeah. So you won't see, so with a lot of the collisions, um, like you won't necessarily even see the trauma from the outside. Um, you only see it when you open it up and look at the inside. And that is like, you know, that is just, you know, against the difference between being a serial killer. That makes me really, really sad because I like birds and if they didn't have to die and nothing had to die it'd be nice but that's just not the order of nature

so you'd be out of a job I'd be out of a job but that'd be fine like jobs I kind of you know I could find something else to do sure but yeah when you were when you were a kid like when did you when did you first was there any moment where your mom was like what do you leave that dead bird alone yes and you're like but what if we put it on the wall yeah it was like no let's make it into art yeah um so that moment for me was um we had when so i grew up in miami and we'd sit outside a lot because it's Florida, you'd sit outside. Well, we had this mosquito zapper, like, and I hated that thing because there was always

that, like, it was the 90s. So there was always that loud zap. It's not like the ones now where it's very chic and minimal and you don't see anything. It's just like this, and you're like, you can hear like the bug, like, ah, it's so disgusting. I was like, why are we doing this? It's just we're like deep can hear like the bug like ah like it's it's so disgusting i was like why are we doing this it's just we're like deep like everyone else does um but no we had to have that zapping light so that light not just didn't just like get bugs in it but had a lizard in it one time like a lizard like a little um one of those little like anoles little people out to florida

you've seen them i went to university of miami so yeah yeah lots of those little, like, anoles, little, if you've been to Florida, you've seen them. I went to University of Miami, so I had a lot of lizards, yeah. Yeah, lots of those little lizards. So one of them, like, a really tiny one, like, crawled up into that light, like, I think chasing after a bug. And then that got zapped, and I, like, cried and went inside. But then I came back out a few minutes later and was, like, I felt bad for it. And I was, like, you know, I had at that time, like, a collection of, like, rocks and seashells and pressed plants and little flowers and stuff that I kept. I was probably around seven or eight at that time, so I was pretty young.

I did that and came back out and was like, maybe I have these other preserved natural artifacts. Maybe I can keep him with this poor little lizard, this poor little lizard, like, this terrible life, like, made this terrible end to his life. Maybe I could keep him with my rocks and my seashells and my plants. And I put it there, and of course my mom was like, what the heck are you doing? And I was like, well, you know, I have, like, these rocks and seashells and stuff. And she's like, yeah, well, she's a biology teacher, so. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so she was like, well, the animals, you know, they Oh, interesting. Yeah, so she was like, well, animals, you know, they deteriorate, but they deteriorate

like in a much more, you know, in a much more intense way, in a much more pungent way than a plant would, or you can't just dry this out, this has to be preserved, you need to use chemicals, you need to do this and that, so I was like, oh, okay. But that planted the seed in my head for, you know, turning it around. Do you think her being a biologist made you more comfortable with animals and what did she do? Was she a teacher? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

She was a biology teacher and so that like inspired me or that got me interested in the sciences but I was always an artist so I knew I didn't want to just do straight up like being in a lab all day. That seemed like not not my job but yeah well because the thing that I was so interested doing this class was was witnessing the art it's because like you and a miniaturist is that a term people who make like miniature dollhouse yeah or like it is that mixed with this incredibly, uh, challenging medium of, of an animal skin.

Yeah. And so like, again, it's like a miniaturist and a serial killer, a little bit from both. No, but like, I feel like you could talk to a miniaturist in a, in a way where some miniaturists would be like, I don't want to touch a mouse, but you have so much in common of like, of, of, oh, it's so, in common of like, of us. So, so your mom's a biologist. What did your dad do? Um, he was an accountant.

An accountant. Yeah. So they created this artist. So every immigrant parent's dream to move to America and have their oldest daughter grow up and be a fucking artist. Where did they immigrate from? Um, India and Jamaica. Did they meet here or did they meet in India?

In India. In India. Yeah. And, okay, taxidermy in general as an art form, we don't need to make this a history lesson, but where does it go back to? Where did it start? Is this mum mummification is this related to that so preserving so the traditions of preserving animals there are traditions from all over the world

so taxidermy if you think of like if you're being a purist then you're going like oh taxidermy taxidermy is taxi moving or arranging in derma skin so for a purist they're going to say all taxidermy is is getting the skin preserving that skin and putting it on a form so they wouldn't even like put mummification or you know high tanning or anything else like into that same category but i do because it's all about preservation and it's kind of silly to like nitpick like what are you doing with the dead animal what am I doing with it it's like we're using dead animals people like come on like let's like kind of see the commonality here but the history of preserving animals is just like every culture has different history of

preserving it for either preserving the animal for like every culture has different history of preserving it for either preserving the animal for like ritualistic reasons or preserving it for in the case of a taxidermy it's preserving it for science or for storytelling or for you know showing what an animal looked like before we had cameras especially this is how information about animals traveled but it's also very deeply tied tied to colonial exploit and a lot of the extractive practices, which obviously don't jive with me. Did anyone ever... He loves colonialism.

Big colonialism fan. Were there ever, I imagine, people who made up lies. They said, I found this in the woods. And it was actually skin around. Were there any famous examples? Yeah, there's this guy, Aldrovandi, who did, he was really well known for like making fake animals. And he made this natural history museum where there's a lot of real stuff too. But he made a bunch of these fake animals, and he made this natural history museum where there's a lot of real stuff, too, but he made a bunch of these fake animals, like these dragons, but they would be, like,

you know, a fish, a, I don't know, a fish, like a weasel, and, like, you know, three things put together, and he would say, like, oh, I found this, like, this is so wild, like, no one's ever going to see this, like, I had to, like, you know, I almost lost my leg, I almost lost my arm, like, you know, like a sensational story. But this is also, you know, part of it is, like, how do I say it? Like, before the internet, before they could just scroll on stuff. How long ago was this? That was, I believe, the 17th century.

Okay. So, yeah. That would be pretty cool, though, to be, like, I'm sure people. I made this thing. People probably believe. Yeah. They like, I'm sure people believed it. People probably believed it. Yeah, people believed it or it just caused, even if they didn't believe it, it caused a stir, it caused sensation. They didn't have like TMZ, they didn't have the fun, juicy stuff that we watch now.

TMZ covers a lot of taxidermy these days. Well that was their form of sensational entertainment, I yeah yeah it would be funny if they did but even before that even before him another example um i believe this is from the 1500s or 1400s um at columbia there was this um there's this whole course called the making and knowing course or the making and knowing it's something making Making and Knowing something. Sorry, I'm like, the name is slipping me. But,

there, that whole course is based on this book. And they call it a recipe book, but it's not just recipes for food. There's recipes for, like,

ointments. There's, like, DIYs of, how to make a mold out of bread or how to make this, you know, how to turn, like,

this lead ball into like a house decoration. You know, there's all this like kind of Martha Stewart stuff, but our homemaking stuff. One of the tutorials in there was how to dry a mouse. So it was how to make a mouse taxidermy, essentially, like a very crude version of it. Another one was like, if you want to modify this, you can sew some wings onto it. So they were even doing it back then.

Why were they doing it back then? Do you know? I think for that it was purely entertainment. The same way you would make like a, because in that same book there was also instructions of how to make a paper and wax flower. Interesting. And how to replicate your favorite piece of jewelry. There was all this stuff in there. It was just seen as a craft, I guess, especially when life was more rural

or life was more, even in cities, you were connected to death a lot more in the past as opposed to now where we're all just like... That's one of the reasons I wanted to do the taxidermy. I think there was a degree of like, I'm getting older. I want to be more comfortable with death. Yeah.

And that's why I think you should be doing taxidermy too. Oh my God. We got to start it. Yeah, I know. How do you feel about taxidermy? Like, would you ever have it in your house? Maybe. Really?

Yeah, I'm not a poet. What animal do you think? I don't know. I would have to like, the thing would have to speak to me. I don't think, I don't feel like I'd want a pet or that kind of thing. Well, let's talk about, first of all, would you ever have taxidermy? You have a mouse now. Would you ever do a pet? No. You would never do a pet? I think that words me out. I don't think after seeing what you did to prep the mouse, because here's the dumb thing, and I'm sure lots of people don't even notice that, in my head, it's like, oh, that's the whole

animal you're seeing. The insides are intact, when in fact, it's just the skin laid over something. But seeing what you had to do to prep that mouse, to see the skin, like you're taking off a shirt, but that shirt covered your whole body, and it's like you have the skin and then you have just the inside, the raw red inside connected, and then you have to like, or cut. Seeing that, I can't imagine, and I know my pet would deteriorate or be cremated, but seeing that, I can't imagine being like, do that to my dog. But I feel like, yeah, and also they're not going to watch it.

And also, do they ever want to watch it? So, not really. The only thing i've had someone want to see so most of the pet work that i do um most of it is for birds the few mammals i do because i specialize in small animals 15 pounds or less correct yeah 15 pounds or less and even then i'll be well i'll even push it lower was it always that or was there a time where you were doing bigger? You've never done bigger. Well, I've learned on bigger stuff, but my interest has always been small animals. They're what I'm around and what I relate to the most. What was the biggest thing you had to do when you were learning?

An elk. That's big. It was big, yeah. There was multiple people working on it, so you're so you're not, like, alone doing that. But, you know, there's larger animals. Like, it's not so much my interest. It's also, like, I'm a city person. Like, I'm not really, the intimacy I have with, like, deer and elk and things like that,

that's just not me. And I'm also not the, you know, there are many types of taxidermists. Like, I lean more on the, the like interpretive or artistic side whereas a lot of other folks could be um you know a more commercial uh taxidermist would have been a lot of deer and elk and a bunch of heads you know going going on walls that's that's not really me or that's not me at all actually but they're just many it's just like like in any art form there's just different styles um yeah know but back to the pet thing so because you offer it on your website just in case anyone's listening yeah you you offer pet service

i think one of the one of the again this is all just tough stuff to swallow but i was looking through the website today and it said basically uh for pets you know obviously you're very stressed a pet dies uh you know you're not into podcast jokes about your pet's death, right? We learned that from Russell. That was an important lesson, I think, for the whole experience. I think that's very understandable. Give me a fake jingle about my pet dying the day after it died. Oh, no.

I thought comedian to comedian, it would be a gesture of love. It was a gesture of love. And I thought maybe the joke would be funnier or the jingle would be better. That's Douglas you're making fun of here. No, it's the made-up song you did. Sorry, you're a bad guy. That wasn't Douglas. That's not how I did it.

The segment was your dog's name was Hennessy. Yeah. And it was, how is your dog, Russell? Hennessy. And it was, uh, how is your dog, Russell? Hennessy! And it was to a jingle for an old segment we used to have, I've got some bad, bad news. See, I didn't even recognize it. And the joke was, how's your dog? We have a new segment where you tell me how your dog is. And I thought it would be fun. I know, it's for Russell. It said, it basically said, oh, fuck. It was basically like, okay, if your pet died, you may be very emotional. Here's what you need to do.

Stick that bitch in the fridge. Stick it in the freezer. In the freezer, not the fridge. Not the fridge. It doesn't say stick that bitch, does it? No, it doesn't. Absolutely not. That doesn't feel like your time.

It's a female dog. But what, that's what, okay, so, okay, so your time. It's a female dog. But what that's like, okay, so let's say someone's listening right now and they're enjoying their podcast and they look over and, oh no, oh no, Fluffy, Fluffy's dead. Oh, I'll get him stuffed. And they're very cool about it.

They're very chill about the whole thing. What do they need to do right now? Just die! Just pass. Well, first they should get themselves together and you know take the moments for themselves because losing a pet is really really tough and you know i've i've experienced that and that's sort of why i started offering um pet taxidermy because a lot of people like i don't want my own pets preserved for taxidermy but if there's not room for people to grieve and do stuff like that or so they're morning oh answer coming close

vultures the apartment what do they need to do? What do they need to do? Dead bodies. What do they got to do? Yeah, they'll wrap their pet up and put their pet in the freezer. And then wrap it up in a blanket? Plastic? In a blanket. Saran wrap? Oh my god. I mean, saran wrap would be a lot. Like that seems making it more difficult. Is there a thing that would be good?

Just a thing to wrap it up with. Yeah like a blanket is fine usually some plastic as well to keep you know. If I put a dead animal in the fridge I'm getting a new fridge. 15 pounds or less so it has to be small. Yeah. Would you if you would just throw your animal in a fridge would you continue to use that fridge for like ice cream? Definitely. Why not? I mean once it's frozen, it's wrapped up. Yeah. You put like... That's a tough... You put dead meat on it already. We're already freezing turkey and things and sticking them in there.

And those come from very questionable sources sometimes. So you at least know like, well, at least you know what your pet ate. And you know, you know, it's background. You've played with that pet, you've kissed that pet, you know what your pet ate and you know you know it's you know it's bad with that pet you know it can be uncanny for sure it can definitely be uncanny there's definitely it would be tough to use the fridge regularly it would be tough to like go in there for ice while the dogs there okay well you're not gonna have it for like weeks on end it could be a while yeah it could be a

while so what I usually tell people to do if they're considering it, that's why I have all that info on my website, is so they can plan ahead. So they can say, you know what, I'm going to check Craigslist for, like, someone giving away a chest freezer. I'm going to check, you know, with my friend who has, like, a garage with, like, an empty chest freezer. Can you imagine the dog saying you clear out all the ice cream in the freezer? It's like, what's wrong? Can you imagine the dog saying you clear out all the ice cream in the freezer? It's like, what's wrong? I think the dog is probably worried about other stuff. You're picking up the dog like, let's see if you can fit in here.

Okay, that's good. I think we're fine. Yeah. Okay, so I want to go through this whole process. So I have a dog, it's 14 pounds. I'd be worried I'd freeze it it'd be a little too heavy after that I'd have to let it thaw just you know no you don't it's about it's not about the frozen weight it's about weight

before wait before okay because once you freeze anything the weight goes up what if it's six but like if I have a dog who I'm not sure I'd be nervous I want to figure out before I send it to you so now I've got to get it onto a scale well you it would be weight like if you had a dog before you would know it's weight

because you have generally you take it to the thing the one that sure and you can have the vet what do your dogs weigh

60 pounds 55 60 pounds I'll have to get a referral you'll have to get a referral yeah can they go on a diet no

well they're too big. They're not that kind of dog. They're never really 10, 15 pounds. Guy giving his dog eating disorders. Oh, my goodness. This is way, that's serial killer shit. I'm the other part of the serial killer.

Listen, if I wasn't squeamish, we'd be in trouble. But, thank God. That's going to be a funny character, a squeamish serial killer. Sque, that's going to be a funny, uh, character, a squeamish serial killer. Squeamish serial killer. Yo, yo,

yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. Um, okay, so they,

they freeze it, they contact you, and, and what, what's the turnaround time? Just like a regular one? Um, well,

when they contact me, you know, they tell me what they're looking for. They also tell me, you know, what, um, almost always, like, people they contact me, you know, they tell me what they're looking for. They also tell me, you know, what almost always like people send like stories about their pet and, you know, a bit about their life and stuff like that. Because, again, people, these are grieving people. So there's a lot of time. I have to. Yeah, I have to.

Because it's a personal. Yeah, it's a personal story. Like the pet aspect of my business is pretty small, but it's very, very personal, so it can't... You can't fuck it up. Yeah. You can't fuck it up. Oh, it's... They're going to be furious.

Yeah. Then you have to call the serial killer to end me. Yeah. Because then I'll be like, there's no, I can't go on anymore. I'm too embarrassed. Yeah. So, we'll go back and forth. I'll usually do, like, sometimes I'll do a phone call with them too,

just to make sure the expectations are on the same page. And for the most part, a lot of people don't go through with like full on taxidermy of their pet. A lot of people end up doing like bone cleaning or a lot of times they end up going with like, I'll clean a skull and then put it in like a kind of like a Victorian sale display with like dry flowers and things like that. Would you rather have Russell stuffed or skull? I like the skull thing. You really like the skull? Because you have a part of your pet.

It's artistic and like, I don't want to like be surprised in the night and be like, oh, and forget that it's not dead. Do you know what I mean? Like, sure. That would be, that would bother me. I remember the saddest thing is one of my dogs said, I, the next night or the couple nights that week,

you know, I would always, when I got out of bed, make sure to, like, step over where she laid and I did that and I was like, no, she's not there anymore.

Anyway, so, I wouldn't want to just have, like, the body in the corner staring. Anyway, so I wouldn't want to just have like the body in the corner, steering. You know, that would upset me. And the other thing with taxidermy too is like as anatomically accurate and as like, you know, technically perfect as it can be,

with a pet you're not doing an animal. You're doing someone's memories, you're working with someone's companion, you're working with their like, you know have pets i have pets like i know like you can put my gray tabby cat in a room full of like 30 of them and i'll know it's him but you don't know who it is because you're not you don't live with them every day yeah um so people with their pets you know it's so they're so connected and you like know them in a way and they kind of know you in a way that like to like an outsider it's very hard to recapture yeah try to like and i don't like discourage people from doing it i

don't want to like tell them don't do this but i try to tell them like you know this is like a photograph a three-dimensional photograph that's essentially what you know it's a sculpture sure it's a recreated sculpture of your pet so even when you're even though i, you know, and even when someone wants to pull on a taxidermy, I'll usually tell them to do sleeping, like a sleeping or restful pose. But even with that, you know, when your pet is sleeping, it's twitching. It's doing all these little things. It's breathing. There's so much movement that even, like, a gorgeous, like, super perfect piece of taxidermy can't ever capture that so it's like it's really hard like so the pets

It's really hard like silly. They're like I want mr.. Monopoly game winking like you know yeah There have been people who have requested some really um Someone one of their cat jumping which I was like this I mean I have four cats so like I know they do some funny, funny stuff. But I'm like, technically, this idea is good. But honestly, I wouldn't do it because it's so... Do they want it hanging by strings? So it's kind of like a... They wanted it so this...

So if you've been around cats, they jump onto high surfaces. And some of them have just funny ways of jumping, too. So this cat would jump on top of the fridge and then jump back down and then jump on top of the fridge and jump back down so it had this like routine that it did every day um and then it got treats on top of the fridge you know it just had this routine so they're like i want this jumping so i can remember my cat in this way that was always jumping you know yeah she was always jumping I was like that's beautiful and that's really great but I also just don't feel like personally comfortable and doing that because it's a very active pose like

see where it would look weird it would look like bad not that it would look bad but just like what so when you think of something jumping right there are many moments in that action sure there's like if you think of, a slow-mo of, like, a runner jumping or just of, like, you know, a nature documentary, you can see all of those different moments. So in those moments, like, it's, like, the cat could be making a weird face or it could have, like, you know, something that makes sense in that split, something that, like, anatomically makes sense in that split second won't make sense if that is just still you

know if it's like preserved as stillness it's almost like when you take a still from a video and you're like and you're like well that's not what I look like that's just like a moment between two things and the camera finds this way um that can happen in taxidermy too so I'm always like you know there must be I give referrals to other artists where like they might do that but I'm also like you know take a while and think of it if that's if you would rather remember your pet that way through taxidermy or maybe through a beautiful illustration or photograph also sleeping because one thing with this mouse on of your memory we had to add a little clay for the genitals. You did? Oh, you did. Yeah, because you're in the lab. Because my mouth's packing. For a mouse, it's quite a lot.

Wow. Maybe you should show that website your mouse's genitals. Oh, my God. Yeah, right? Right? It's like you said, show more. Look, you see underneath there, it's down. But you see between the legs?

You got to dip it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, you know, I had to, it was a sack. Yeah. And I had to stuff the a sack you know and i just stuffed the sack and i feel like if you did like a jump or whatever like just seeing you know dogs they have jangles and whatnot but to like see it like frozen it might just it might just be a

little strange yeah yeah there's a lot of things where like you know and some folks like you know that might be what they want and that's like you know not to judge or anything i would just refer them to someone else for that because i'm like just personally i'm like i don't i would overthink it too much to do to do something like that but if this was like you know this is like two birds fighting for you know a diorama or for some display then i'm like all right that's a completely different thing because the animals are there's no like personal there's a personal connection in loving nature but it's a different thing because the animals are there's no like personal there's a personal connection in loving nature but it's a different thing with wildlife where you have this good healthy barrier of like removal where with pets they're family members with a pet has anyone ever been like you

overstuffed it or understuffed it no too fast too skinny you know like my dog's was way bigger i feel like that would be like, that would be hard to determine how much you're going to stuff because I would get a fat pat here and there. Sure. And you're like, you know, I could take a few pounds off of him if you want to like. Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you all of our pets from,

I've seen pets, because most of the time when pets die, like most of the pets I work on are birds, which they normally die without a lot of, normally yeah they normally unless they get sick or unless something happens suddenly they normally don't have a ton of fat under the skin because parrots can live for like decades. 80 years. Yeah they can live a long time. How do you know that fact? Because I remember in fourth grade Mrs. Kemmerer came to our class and she brought in a parrot and she told us, I'll never forget it, she said,

this pet is gonna live longer than me. This parrot's gonna live longer than me, so my daughter's gonna, we were in the fourth grade at the time, she said, my daughter's gonna inherit it because it could live 80 years or something like that. And I'll never forget, because I still to this day sometimes think about Mrs. Kemmerer and think about if she dies when that bird, you know, so.

How much of Mrs. Kemmerer do you think the bird ate before they found her body? She still left. I'm friends with her on Facebook. So you should ask. Did it like disturb you as a kid? Was it one of those like, oh death? Yeah, it jumped out. I don't remember much from from that time but i remember that specific show yeah she brought in the parent and told us hey did you have pets no my mom was is allergic to like anything that has fur um or anything that really breathes so like we had fish i guess that's simply a pet but like kind of insignificant in my opinion it didn't really last super long so you can't stop fish can you so you can but it's done it's done in a

similar way but a lot of times what people do for fish is um they'll do a cast and then paint it like a reproduction and they'll paint it to look sure to look like the fish um because with any skin once it goes through that preservation process it loses a lot of color it loses all of you know there's no blood flow going on underneath it, and as you saw, it's flat. Yeah. So it loses all that color. So with fish, a lot of times you can do a skin mount just like we did with the mouse, but a lot of times people will end up doing a reproduction, especially if it's like a commercial taxidermist because they're wanting to get them out the door. But yeah, I haven't done, I haven't done a

fish before. I've done reptiles but not a fish any other weird requests from these pet people with of what they wanted um god i think the jumping one was pretty wild um gosh other weird requests i'm trying to think did anyone tell you too much of a story like did they send you a novel and you said yeah that's like so when i was first starting out um there were a lot of people and this is like sad but it also like you know taught me boundaries because I was like oh my gosh like these people have no one to talk like some of these not everyone but some people they're like they really have no one to talk to they're like that animal was their life and I get it so I'm one of those people I'm like I have people to

talk to thankfully but I'm also like, my animals that are in my care, they are my, they are my life, they are like, everything to me, but it sucks to lose that, and then to be like, oh, I'm going to talk to this person, because she's clearly a fucking weirdo, who like, you know, offers this, so there's like that sense of approachability there, where, you know, it's easy for someone to overstep it and then you're just like why is this person like I'm in bed it's like two in the morning I just got up to pee but there's like 10 text messages what are they writing you like could you feel this period yeah being sad and then like some clients can go back and forth so like I've definitely had a lot

of like I've definitely had a lot of like no show clients which really really sucks for me because if I have someone's pet all done up and I'm like oh they're like never mind yeah or they're just like it's too much too heavy for me I'm doing well now I make people pay up front because yeah I like that you have a museum though abandoned abandoned taxidermy pets I think that place would have the worst energy in the world that would be no you put up the email and it was just like yeah that's the history of the past she's right that's just that oh that's like really yeah it'd be fascinating they left it behind yeah oh the payback like for the pettiness putting up the emails it'd be be like, oh, the invoice,

oh, here you go. You know, there's that. That would be, that'd be very petty. But, um, yeah, I think even that pettiness in me would have to be dragged out. I could see as a villain, like a villain who takes taxidermy pets and, and pays more money so he gets to keep them instead of the owner. And he has a whole collection. I like that.

Well, you can't sell the other thing is you can't sell um in the u.s it's illegal to sell dog or cat fur so if someone like so for example if someone like had a pet parakeet and decided to change their mind and said like you know i don't want it at least part of me could say like okay well i can at least sell this parakeet on Like, you know, like a pigtail. But you can't do that for a dog or a cat. The sale of dog and cat fur is illegal. But you could taxidermy it for someone? Yeah, you can taxidermy it for someone.

Are the laws frustrating? I feel like... No, I mean, I think they're great. I think... Yeah? Yeah, I like laws that protect wildlife, believe it or not. Are there any laws, though, that you're like, this feels... Are there any laws that feel dumb?

No. You said picking up a feather in New York City is technically illegal. It's not in New York City. That's a federal law. So the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. Yeah, that's a federal law. So that's not any feather. Those are just for migratory bird feathers.

So anything that's not... It feels like one of those ones that no one enforces if you find a feather. So if you're like, you know, that's one of those things where... You shoot me right on the spot. Go to jail for migrating. There's like a lot of laws like that where you're like, what you in for? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The feather, yeah. So those laws are...

Feathered by a cat. Yeah, those laws are there, you know, mainly for like people who trade in wildlife, you know, so that there's, you know, that regulates the trade in wildlife. But also that law, that went into effect because we used to just kill, and by me I mean just society, not like the four of us. the four of us. Sure, yeah. Our society used to just kill birds willy-nilly for women's hats, for feather trade, for, like, all sorts of, you know, also for taxidermy, for, like, for all kinds of things.

So they made that law for that reason. So it's sort of one of those things where it's like, well, it's got to be this extreme so that it can, you know, kind of be enforced in this other way. But for me, it doesn't affect enforced in this other way but for me it doesn't affect I think the way it affects me is that I make a lot of people really upset because they'll especially like right now during like migration season like

spring migration and during fall migration I get so many emails about dead birds so people are always like oh I found this beautiful woodpecker oh I found this I found that can you can you mount it for me it flew into a building did this it did that um i'll be like well i can't unless it's for a museum or for like an educational center because of this law and then they're like you're not a real taxidermist you don't really care about me you don't really care about this and i'm like okay cool like i'm not to go to jail to make you think I'm cool. Like, you know, I'm not going to go to jail for that.

Like, you know, it's not a good thing to go to jail for. Are there underground taxidermists who do, like, like, there must be. Because, like, there's, like, I wouldn't know. Like, you know, like, poachers?

You know, like, poachers and people? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously, they're not running the same cells, too. Yeah, I was, like, a brown person. I wouldn't want to be around people breaking the law like that. No, I wasn't accusing you. I was just saying, like, you know was like, yeah, I was like a brown person. Why would I want to be around people breaking the law like that? No, I wasn't accusing you. I was just saying, like, you know, like.

That would be, that's like, if anyone even does a sniff of something illegal, like, and listen, like, I grew up in nightlife. I did a lot of questionable things in my childhood. It's funny. It's in what not, not like anything like. Back in my 20s, I was stuffing any bird I came along to. Yeah, not like that, I'm talking about like drugs. I'd turn them into bombs. Yeah.

It was incredible. No, I was... But like that kind of stuff, like those wildlife laws, they are so... Because this is my livelihood, this is my job. So I'm not like, I'm really not trying to lose my job. Is there a license? Yeah. What's your license?

I have a well for do it for working on birds I have a federal migratory bird license so that basically gives me um that doesn't give me free reign to work on any birds but it gives me um a permit to work on birds that um most of the ones I do are most of the migratory birds I do are for either a museum or an educational group. So that means they will list me. They have a permit for collecting those specimens, like a scientific collection permit. And then I have to have my permit saying that the federal government knows that I'm a taxidermist and I'm authorized to work on this for this person. But all that means is, like, they've done a background check on me they know i've not done any broken any wildlife laws or done anything terrible um no felonies nothing like that um and

they'll keep track of all the birds that go in and out of my studio so i have to keep records for the past like at least the past five years um of every animal that's gone in and out but especially for birds because it's a bird from it but state to state different states sometimes have a taxidermy license and some of them do test you on your knowledge of like you know if someone brings you this size fish like what do you do and it's a question where do you tell them to take it back do you report them to fish and wildlife because it's not the right species you know they'll they'll give you some tests like that but But a lot of states, like, the license is just, um, you

paid someone and you didn't have any wildlife crimes on your record. But the federal license is that. So I wouldn't want to lose that. I wouldn't want to lose my job. I don't mess with anyone doing anything illegal. And for the most part, like, the

community of like this looks like newer generation of taxidermists is very much like that because they're very much like not wanting to ruin it because even like it's like even if someone's like oh this law sucks is this is that just complaining about that is just gonna make it even harder yeah for us to like do regular legal stuff. They're going to say like, Oh, we should just like regulate this in a way that, well, no one can do taxidermy or like, maybe we should just make it so that no one can mount any birds at all or like make it harder. So I like, don't want to be part of anything that could

possibly make that happen. Yeah. I have a question. Where do all the insides go? That's a good question. Because I was like, I can't just throw it in the garbage. You know that Subway tuna fish thing? Yeah, I've sold to Subway. That's how I really make my money because I sell all of the meat to Subway.

It's hard being an artist. So all of the insides, that's a really good question. So I have a colony of dermestid beetles for skull cleaning. So I'll feed them to those beetles. But then I have all these little bones that I don't know what they're made of. Even with the pets? It depends. So with pets, people have to say what they want done with every part of the pet.

So for the most part, people will say they want the remains that aren't preserved to be cremated, or they'll take it back for burial or something else. But yeah, for the museum stuff, I send the remains back because technically it's a protected specimen, and they have to dispose of it in their you know in their certified facility. How do you set it up? Frozen in a cooler yeah and labeled all of it is labeled too it has to be like well this is this species like it's like crossing all the T's and dotting the I's for anything that's a protected species it's super super important even for the insides but for yeah anything that's a protected species. It's super, super important even for the insides.

But for anything that I don't use, I have friends who do like bone work and stuff like that, so I'll just give it to them so nothing is wasted. Although you can, I think in New York, the law is if you find a dead animal, or not the law, but I think one of the the disposition you're supposed to do if you find a dead animal is very undignified you're supposed to bag it write dead animal on the bag and call 311 and put it out on trash day which is like this is like the worst thing you could do to like a sentient being this episode is brought to you by A Real Pain. From Searchlight Pictures comes one of the buzziest films at Sundance Film Festival,

A Real Pain. Written, directed, and starring Oscar nominee Jesse Eisenberg, alongside Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin. Witness a hilarious and moving story about two mismatched cousins as they tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. Now I asked this in the class and I probably should have not. I think the other guests were uncomfortable. Human beings. Oh, right. Yeah.

Yeah. They started crying. I was like... Are there any countries where they do taxidermy for human beings? There aren't. I mean, there's like humans that have been preserved, like, you know, like the Bodies Exhibit and stuff like that, but it's not taxidermy. Have you been to the Bodies Exhibit? Have you been to the Bodies Exhibit?

No. I went to that. Again, I went as a challenge. This is when I was really going through an existential crisis. And it is, it's tough. It's just, I remember holding a brain. And, like, they were like, here, you can hold the brain. And I probably held on to it, like, way longer than they, like, wanted.

Like, I was, like, holding it. Were you wearing gloves? No, it was like, it was like a mama. It's fascinating. Yeah, yeah, that word. And I just like was looking at this like, this brain had desires and it had an identity. And now I'm holding it for $20.

Yeah. And it was tough. It was a tough. But, you know, I could see some friends that I would want around me always taxidermy okay let's just hypothetical game okay so Russell Do you see if you could fit in that top part? If, okay, let's just hypothetical game. Okay. So, Russell dies.

Yeah. What country do you think I'm most likely to be able to get taxidermy? I don't think any country because, so, as you saw with taxidermy, you're taking the skin off, putting it back on the form. Even though we're mammals, we don't have a lot of hair of hair so it's really tough to mount skin that's not hairy like if you look at for example pig taxidermy or like even reptile taxidermy anything that doesn't have hair on the skin it's very difficult I'm glad I wasn't the only one. The fact that you brought up pig text and everything. I didn't even know we could. Oh my god. Pig textory hippos.

Pig. Pig. Oh, pig. God, you're such a quitter. He is. He is. He is. No, it's only Russell.

Russell gave me a look. I had it in my head and I said, don't look at me. Because I almost made a joke and then I knew he was going to make a joke. So, um, uh. I didn't even mean it like. So, um, uh, no, we know you didn't, we know you didn't.

This is all us. This is all us. Um, but yeah, even just like anything hairless, it's hard to do taxidermy on. So that's like from the technical aspect, there's that.

Then there's a legal aspect. So I think it would just depend state to state and country to country, what they will allow you to do with, in your will, with your remains like i will get that's the other like wacko call i get is people who are like i want you to stuff my grandma or like oh i have like this and i'm like you're stupid like why did you waste my time like yeah i don't reply but i'm like why would someone like who has the time to write this to me but you know i guess you would have to look at um

yeah what you can do with your remains i know that some people i have been contacted by people who have like gotten like a hip replacement or something or have gotten um a part of their body removed and wanted that preserved sure i've referred them to people who do that so that is that is legal it depends It depends on the state. It depends on where you are. But even something like, if you think of like, when you get your wisdom teeth out,

and if you want to get them back, different people have different, you know, rules about it. Because technically it's medical waste. Sure. So it would really... That's the example of a law that bothers me. Where like, if it's your body,

you get it. Yeah. I think. Yeah. I mean, like, people do that with their like, placenta for, you know, after they give birth. Like, they'll take it in a pill, or they'll bury it, or they'll use part of it. So it really depends on... I would want the placenta taxidermied so it's jumping up to the fridge.

If you had to... A jumping placenta would be pretty incredible. Your body was going to be... Sure, sure. Where would you want to go? In what position? The main room at the Comedy Cellar. On stage doing my signature lean. And every comedian... and it's got to be in the middle.

So the comedians have to work for it. And every comedian like it's got me the middle. Yeah, so the Santa Claus You know Cinco de Mayo Burrow that like yeah, I like that. I like it. I like it being comedic and fun Yeah, and the comments could do jokes about it. Yeah. Yeah, like oh my god This is the the least if I've ever seen him on stage Something like that. What are you doing? No, I would never.

You have to. Okay, if I have to? Yeah. Okay. Let's think. I guess... Get ready to paint. I guess if I had to be taxed,

I mean, I'm not dead. I guess probably standing. I think, like, standing behind, like, an old-timey bar in some place. That's great. Oh, my God. Kind of like this. With this, like, you know, green pool. You know?

Like, with a smile. You know? And it's not a bar that I went to a lot. So people are like, explain the story. This was this guy's wish. He wanted to be taxidermied and put in this old-timey bar. Was this his favorite bar? No.

No, he never actually was even here. He came in and got a water once. There is that guy. I think it's Grover Krantz. He's in the Smithsonian. He was a scientist that it's not taxidermy but he got his skeleton and his dog skeleton are um that's right in there yeah it's really cute so they're both together and the dog is like and again it's both skeletons so it's not

like too uncanny looking but yeah the dog is like a big dog so he's like the paws are on his shoulders it's really cute that's's sweet. That's really sweet. That is sweet. Paige, what are you doing? I'm standing in the middle, in the corner of a room, like standing over somebody's bed. Ooh, that's good. I like that one. I changed my mind.

That's a good one. That's good. Um, I'm trying to think if I, if I lost a limb, I could totally see, would they make a mold of the dead so they knew how big my feet were? It would be, so when people get something, like if you lost a limb, some people want the bones cleaned and they would bring it back. It's really rare. I haven't heard of anyone who got the limb given back as texturny, if that makes sense. You know, because it's just like a lot, who's gonna do that job sure like i know i imagine okay so so you i'm sure within your your profession which is is unusual it's unusual i think that's what we can do

there must be people within it that are even more unusual. Like what are taxidermists like? Are there any like taxidermists? Oh, taxidermists, they're always like... You know, like what are... Is there a stereotype for taxidermists? Oh, yeah. There's...

Oh my God, there's so many stereotypes. So most of the time people think it's like an old straight guy. That's the one in my old, in my hometown. He was, he was an old guy, always had overalls on. You'd see the deer hanging outside his shop. And he basically, his face was just a beard. Yeah, yeah. They think of like, you know, the mountain man, they think of like that as the, as like the stereotype, you know, or Are there a lot of that as well? Like stereotype you know or are there a lot of that as well like is there there is a lot of them yeah which is like you know it's yeah that's the majority of like i would say the majority of the field is like older straight white guys like you do you are you able to click with them on like taxermy stuff? And they're like, whoa. So it's been really interesting because the people that have been my closest mentors and allies are very much not like me.

They're very different from me. But we do click in that way, which is really, really beautiful. Because we can bond over the shared love of animals, but it's also, like, been a really good filter for me to be, like, okay, if I go into this convention, or if I go into this, like, taxidermy space, who's going to, like, I'm there to meet people, I'm there to, like, you know, talk about and be among taxidermy and just focus on taxidermy. I'm, like, all right, who's going to be the person who sees my name tag and says New York City and says something about, like, guns or liberals or whatever? But then who's going to be the one that's like, oh, those feathers on your dress, I could get you, like, I got an ostrich out back. You know, who's going to make, like, a funny kind of joke and kind of, like, meet me with, you know, we can meet each other with, like, curiosity and, like, compassion.

But there's some conservatives in this profession. Because, again, it's this mix of art and craftsmanship. I know the more deer heads are on a wall at a comedy venue, I've got to be ready. I've got to be ready for some booze. But it's really interesting, though, because to me, there's nothing more queer than taxidermy because you are taking an animal out of the i'm sure they love that when you say that oh yeah you guys are actually pretty queer you're so freaking gay you guys oh my god like this is the gayest thing ever it is okay it's so queer i love just like taxidermy is just okay. What's queer about it? So to me personally I see

it as it doesn't exist in life or death it's like breaking that binary you know you can take that animal and turn it into anything you want and that is something a lot of queer people do is we take ourselves and turn ourselves into whatever we want whether literally or figuratively or just living outside of, you know, living outside of those expectations. There's also like, you know, taxidermy is all about transformation. And like, again, that's like a huge theme in many queer people's lives is transformation. And, you know, there's also all these like misconceptions about taxidermy. So a lot of like the people, you know, living in New York City, there's not a lot of taxidermists here but a lot of the people who were in my community that embraced

me were already you know were already like some sort of outsiders based on um you know whether it was goth people or queer people or you know those are all my friends goth people and queer people yeah that's it those are my friends but you know but even like nerdy people like anything like that um most of the people even though they weren't you know but even like nerdy people like anything like that um most of the people even though they weren't taxidermists most of the people like within that community were seen as an outsider in some other way and i think you know if you're doing taxidermy you've got to be really devoted to it and even if you are like a more you know even if you are like this like old straight white guy like whatever like, like that is, um, a lot of the guys I've met who are like that and who aren't like hateful are extremely like

wild and artistic and probably are not, um, gonna call themselves queer or anything because they're not, but they have that mentality of like thinking expansively, which I think is really important if you're doing something like taxidermy because you're turning something inside out and you have to believe in the process to get it back again and to be good at it too and kind of crazy enough to get good at it like devoted enough to get good at it. Next time I walk into a bar with a bunch of deer heads I'll be like, oh, gay bar! No idea! We should make the, make taxidermy gay again, like the, the hat, like, you know. Yeah. I love, I just love the idea of this convention

because I think it's always interesting whenever you have, especially in a politicized society, an interest that, like, overrides those and forces you to be together and acknowledge that you love this thing. Yeah. It's definitely interesting. It's definitely, um, for me it's been eye-opening.

Do you feel like birds, bird taxidermists, are more queer than deer taxidermists? Oh, yeah. It's crazy. That doesn't make sense. Birds are gay. Birds are gay?

Deers could be gay, too. What's gayer than a bird? Yeah, seriously. What's gayer than a bird? You've got feathers. you've got colors, you've got dances, you've got songs. Rituals, mating rituals. Eggs?

Eggs? You can't have brunch. That's more queer than brunch. I like that. Yeah. Okay, that was fantastic. Let's, let me just make sure I didn't miss anything here. We forgot to play the theme music.

Oh my God. Paige. Why is it my fault? This is the downside. One, two, three. You're listening to The Downside. marco cerezi welcome to the downside uh listen uh here's a couple just a couple quick pieces of business uh before we get to the rest of this episode um uh we did some of these out of order so so uh basically Russell booked way too many dudes in a row and

we had to mix it up yeah so so there's a it's like for example during the page transaction if you're like why is your marker reading the joke it's better than Russell does we know it does yes but we record out of order so so bear with us we'll get back to track very soon this is coming out next week though so I did want to say if you're a fan join the Patreon patreon.com

slash downside you get bonus episodes from the past you get all of our live episodes including the one we're recording tonight

with Molly Kearney from Saturday Night Live you get my comedy special The Rats Are In Me and we're almost at 150 patrons and we'll do that Russell and I

are recording all the New York Times 36 questions to fall in love to. See what happens. We'll see if we're as queer as taxidermy by the end of that. And it's going to be multiple episodes

because we actually already recorded some of it. We recorded one. We got to what? Eight questions? Eight questions. There's lots of bonuses. Join the Patreon even if you just want to support the show. we got to what? 8 questions? 8 questions so it's going to be and then once we hit 200 there's lots of bonuses so join the Patreon even if you just

want to support the show patreon.com slash downside we're grown and we got to grow fast because Russell who knows maybe something good

happens to him soon so going on to our next segment nope this has got to stop this has got to stop by the way I was going to play

so there's my girlfriend's night terrors are on here and with her permission nope this has got to stop this has got to stop by the way i was gonna play uh sometimes my girlfriend's night terrors are on here um and and with her permission but she she had a i think i can share this she had a sleep doctor appointment over zoom and and i was like oh can i can i please be there because i felt like it doesn't affect her at all. So I was there, and I basically ran the whole session. The doctor was like, so how have your night terrors been? I was like, okay, I think I'll weigh in here, because she doesn't remember any of them. It's a fucking nightmare, and it's killing me slowly.

So I think she's going to do a sleep study. She did one many years ago, but she's going to go in and fall asleep at a lap. There's a lot of pressure to be bad that night you know me yeah well like I will have no trouble with being bad because what if they're like she's great well clean Bell then I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna sit out there for a week yeah you need a longer period I want to go oh I'm gonna look at because my insurance can cover it but I want to go and do it too yeah to a full sleep sleep we'll have a sex session this has got to stop do you but this has got to stop um we can go first two of you oh yeah

yeah i'll go um so yeah yes so i guess um one thing for me that has to stop so recently i celebrated my birthday um and i did that with falconry with live birds falconry like you spent time with yeah yeah with flying them across the field learning about you know birds of prey getting them on the glove not this obviously they would eat this you know putting on like a gauntlet and getting close to them and all of that

but anytime because of what I do anytime I post a picture of a live animal there are people and you must this is I think we can relate because there are people who think they're comedians and they're not Are in the comments trying to make a joke about oh my god. You're with a live animal Don't you want to stuff it and I'm like none of these are original. They're not funny They're not good. What are the jokes that they say like what what are the Like oh, they better that bird better watch out.

I'm like, this bird can peck my eyes out. Like, first of all, this is a bird of prey. It can peck my eyes out. Or if I'm with someone's pet, or if I, like... It's the best if I go to a barbecue and meet a friend of a friend of a friend. Bird remove, whatever. They're like, they find out what I do, and they're like, oh, I better keep you away from my pet. And I'm like, your dog isn't that great.

Like, I wouldn't even work on it like what are you thinking like oh yes like let me live with live animals let me live with my live animals I prefer them that way yeah there's sometimes you want like a more boring job when you have to do with interactions like that yeah you ever lie in an uber no no I think the best the best interaction I had of telling someone I was a taxidermist and I devoted, like I will die for this lady. She does my pedicures. I sometimes treat myself to like a really good deep get in there, like medical pedicure where they're like getting all, they go down like a shoe size. It's amazing um when i told the lady that i see now for my deep pedicures she got all the like clippings of like this dead skin and all of that stuff and she put it on like a towel and showed it to me and she was like do you see that and i was like yes and

she's like i thought you'd appreciate oh my my kitchen contacts. And I was like, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That is what I want to see. That is what I want people to do. Like, be fucking creative. Like, show me.

You know, she assembled all my dead skin clippings. And I was like, do you want that? So instead of being like, stay away from my peppy, like, let me show you something in the freezer right now. Yes. Show me some weird shit. Like, give me that. Our friend Jessica's story about when she was a child, she would, without her parents knowing,

she would collect their toenail clippings. And she would store them in her dollhouse. In her dollhouse? And for a long time, she would just go into their bathroom and collect their toenail clippings or their fingernail clippings. And then, and she got caught. And they were like, what is going on? Like that, you know, for a parent, they'd be like, what is going on?

Anyway, shout out to Jessica Fry for being free. Jessica Fry. Thanks for listening to this one. Does she do pedicures now, do you know? I don't know. Maybe that's who it is? Oh no, no, no, no. No, she doesn't. She's an actress, a good couple years. Paige, you got this guy's stop? I do. Tell us. I think white people should stop putting soy sauce or shoyu on white rice. Okay, we got a problem. Why? What are you talking about? I'm putting this in the context of like, if you're at a Japanese restaurant, and you're eating something, like if you get a side of white rice that's coming with like salmon,

or like other like main kind of food, then like some people will put soy sauce on top of this plain white rice it's really all good but like people put soy sauce on white rice was to like make it more interesting or whatever like the white rice is supposed to just be plain like the same and that you're eating is already so salty like you need white rice to like kind of ice out yeah I'm not talking about like a struggle meal like you're at rice to like kind of ice out yeah I'm not talking about like a struggle meal like you're at home like uh-huh I need something to eat like do do that whatever like I get that I eat fried

rice at home like a yeah you know throw some veggies or whatever too but if you're out like a Japanese restaurant or something and you get white rice please don't put soy sauce on it that That's good because my Mrs. Got to Stop is about Japanese people. We'll get to that in a second. You know, I just went to sushi the other day and I went through this dilemma and I decided not to because I was like, I think that this seems gauche to put the, if you overkill. Really. It was a nice place.

I was like, I'm going to trust it to not have to use the soy sauce. And it was delicious because it was a good sushi place. Of course. But I went through that and I thought about it for a minute and I almost did it. And then I was like,

why would I do this? I'm not at home. It totally makes sense to me and I don't know what I do normally. It makes sense to me, but that surely has never been, I didn't know that was a thing. I never put it in that context or understood why. But it makes sense to me, but that surely has never been, I didn't know that was a thing. I never put it in that context or understood why.

But that makes sense, it would be like, if a piece of bread came with a specific dish, it's not always meant to be buttered. If it came with like, it's overkill. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Very interesting. Okay. Very interesting.

I have like, you seem like a soy sauce, you seem like you... There's also people who think all rice, like rice itself is a whole world. There's so many kinds of rice. As a person also from Asia, I know. Many rices, so many grains, and so many flavors and uses for the rice. And also different types of preparation. If you're eating at a nice sushi restaurant, like that rice is probably pretty expensive. Yeah.

Like the whole preparation of like washing it. Like sometimes sushi chefs have to like go through like years of training and like how to wash the rice before they even get to like be a sushi chef. Can I ask you this? Caleb here on Could Get Mad that I share this. We went out to sushi with Caleb. He deposits the ginger

into the soy sauce bath to let it soak. Instead of putting soy sauce on top of his sushi, he just then picks the soaked ginger and puts it on the sushi. And that's the natural with some soy sauce in that. Is that weird? I mean, I don't think it's weird. I think it like makes sense. It's not like technically the right or traditional way to do it, but you know, that's not as bad as putting what you just said. No, it's like you're, you're eating sushi. So like you're supposed to dip like the sushi on the side, like in the soy sauce like dish or whatever.

And then you eat ginger after your meal is done. It's like to to cleanse it's like the ginger is supposed to be something that kills like bacteria or like you know it's kind of just like a palate cleanser of sorts but to eat it together like I get it you know I'm not going to be like hypercritical about that but next time we go to a meal I'm gonna be studying how you eat it and imitating it. Because I eat sushi all the time. It's in my rider. That's my comedy club rider.

Really? Oh, I love sushi. I love sushi. But are you going to places, do you ever feel like you're in a place, a town that might not have? Yeah. I don't think anyone in Indianapolis is going to give me some sushi at a kid. That's for sure. No.

No, I mean like bad sushi. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's for sure. No, I mean like bad sushi. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, bad. It just seems like a risky thing in some parts of the country to have on your ride. Sure, sure. Um, which is Okay, okay. I saw a sign the other day on the MTA that

said, we love commitment, folks. Okay, businesses, corporations, stop using language that you think will be relatable to us you know why do you love commitment folks the MTA you know it's how grow up you know it's so like you're a hundred year old organization you're not like a 21 year old like it just was so annoying to me. I wanted to tear down the sign and be like, and it's like, just get us to spend more money somehow too.

Like what is this, how does this translate to what are you trying to even say right now? There's a whole, it's the whole, like I hate thanks for your loyalty. Delta thanks you for your loyalty. I'm like, I'm trapped. We're trapped. I literally're trapped I have to use you I don't have to like you, I don't want to be your friend

I don't want to date you Just stop It's just a waste of money and campaign What are you campaigning for? I'm on your goddamn subway already I don't know what you're trying to sell me So anyways, take your signs down On the MTA.

I like that one. This has got to stop. At New York airports, they do this a lot. They go, help us fight human trafficking. No. No. Hire someone to do that.

I'm not here to do civilian policing. I'm going to go to the civilian policing okay so you don't tell me being pulled by their hands you could be okay if we're talking extreme if we're talking extreme we're talking there's a leg hanging out of the back and a sign good how if I hear that but otherwise what they're saying yeah but you you tell you they're not you tell me how many how many fucking people that go like and they go now oh I see yeah I think it is I think it is a thing that surely people

that like oh who do we have we had someone I feel like they were adopted but their parent was a different race or they were just hell yes and they talked about all the airports that were like how do you know the buff up up and that's that we have great I'm so really policing that's what happens okay okay I'm on board now yeah okay I don't yeah I don't care I thought you were bothered that you didn't want to do any detective work. You were like,

I got my blinders on, people are human trafficking, I don't care. I don't have a union that's going to help me when I fuck it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, I'm saying,

if only, I think I'd only say something if it was like a very pale white person. That's the only thing I'd do. Otherwise, that's part of the culture. I don't fucking know what's going on. Alright, final segment.

You better count your blessing. This is where we say one thing we're thankful for. Would you like to go? I'll go last. Okay, you go last. Paige, you have a blessing. Sure. My blessing is John Marko. Paige.

Perhaps it's pretty obvious, but I did just quit my job and I'm gonna be working in comedy again, full time, taking a month and a half off, which I'm very excited about. But I think, actually I know, like the only reason why I got to this place where I could quit my job in art to go back into maybe a worse art form comedy is

because of John Marco so I appreciate all getting the opportunity to work with you over the past two years and getting to this point where I feel like I can pursue something that I'm interested in doing. That's very sweet Paige, thank you very much. Russell, do you have a blessing? Yeah, so last night was the last night of some four of our cast members and it was a really special nice night. I've been doing the show with them since November and it was just nice to it was just so nice to get to celebrate them and I feel very sad that they're leaving the show. It feels a little like we all signed up for summer camp and then like

they're like we are only doing two weeks and I'm like stuck there for the whole summer so not stuck there but do you remember it feels like that thing where you're like oh my friends are leaving. So, I feel bummed in that way, but I feel very grateful I got to do the show with them, and it was nice because we had a couple other cast members who have already moved on in the audience, so it was a nice, really nice night.

Ross was there, we were live on the podcast on Wednesday. Yes. So, Rosé, the drag queen. So it was a night, a really lovely night and I'm very thankful for those people. That thing you're talking about, I did a theater camp once,

it was like five weeks, 160 kids and then there was a two week musical theater extension that I joined and it was only 30. Yeah. And so you went through

the period of like everyone leaving, except for like 20 of the annoying musical theater kids, including myself. And the feeling, the hollowness of those two weeks after was excruciating. It's just the simple thing, too, of you take for granted, you're like,

oh, a good tip of the word, and I have fun with everyone, and I know them so well now, that you're like, oh, I good to go to work, and I have fun with everyone, and I know them so well now, that you're like, oh, I've got to, like, read. I've got to, like, learn and, like, you know, meet new people, which is a great process. It just requires a different kind of energy that you have to go through. I mean, by the time this comes out, the show will probably have closed. It's true.

I'll reiterate or reference back to this opening for Bianca at the show. First, it was raising money to fight homelessness in Connecticut. But I think I'm always grateful to have a chunk of a fan base that's queer and is in theater and is in drag. And I feel like, you know, I'm not, I, I, nothing about what I do is within the drag community, but getting to work with drag queens and like, I just think it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a blessing to be welcomed. Even if it's on the site where there's guys going uh show your dick like there's just something about there's just like to i i have always been friends with with a lot of particular gay men because of theater and so to be able to be in stand-up comedy and still do shows with drag queens and still somehow feel an extension of that part of myself and you know the same way you're in titanic it's where i think i would speak for you too where it's just like as straight guys

it's it's lovely that we can be there and be a part of that and be welcomed yes and i know they were trying to get you to do poppers just for for shits like that. That's fun. That's fun. Get Russell to do them. I'll ask Rosé to bring them on Wednesday. Let's do it. Turn them on the fly. And your blessing. Okay, so my blessing's probably kind of boring, but it'll be good.

My blessing right now specifically are birds. We're in the tail end of migration, and it's been, like, really rough in some ways. Because, again, I get a lot of these, like, dead bird emails. But I haven't gotten as many this year because I was looking through this year versus last year. I was like, oh, my gosh, I think I've gotten less this year because somehow I don't feel as like frazzled and stressed out maybe it's also the the high of like from just celebrating my birthday and stuff like that but I was looking and I was like oh no there were less

and I'm like maybe something is changing so I'm grateful for that for maybe something is changing or not I don't know but I'm gonna go also And also orcas are attacking too. Yes, I'm very thankful for that. Nature's healing. Things are going on. Animals know more than we do. I'm all for like, I'm always like, yeah, take down the boat. But let me tell you, if I was on a boat, and Soleil felt some knocking, I'd be like, I'm sorry I went against my species. I'm sorry.

Real quick for our patrons, this seems to be a hit, the last one we did I'm gonna, I'm gonna, ooh okay this is good, so we're gonna scroll the patrons again, patreon.com slash downside join and your name can be down here, we're scrolling as Russell tells us joke from Jackie Bartling's

Ultimate Joke Collection I got another joke book soon, so we got a lot so Russell here you go. Russell has not seen this one. This one right there. I can't even say this name. Io Covelli's eating a bowl of soup in a restaurant

when he goes up and leaves without paying. The owner follows him out the door and down the street. Io Covelli walks into a whorehouse, grabs a girl, and goes upstairs. The owner walks in and asks the madam where the guy who just came in is, and she says, upstairs, first door on the right. He walks into the room, and there's Iacovelli going down on the hooker to beat the band.

The restaurant owner says, hey, you left my restaurant without paying for your soup. Iacovelli says, there was hair in it. I ain't paying for that. The restaurant owner says, I hear it. Look at you. You got your face buried in there. Ikebele says, and if I come across a noodle in here, I ain't paying for this either. I think it's somewhere where I thought it was going to go. Happy pride. That was where I thought it was going to go. Happy Pride. What's so interesting is in the book

it says sex worker, but you changed it. No, shut up! What a strange thing. I'm sure the book made in what year says... Sadly, not that long ago. So thank you to the Patreons. Join that list.

Patreon.com slash downside. Debbie, where can people find you? You can find me. I have a website. I have an Instagram. Both are Gotham Taxidermy. You can find me on those. Check it out.

Take a class, too. Yeah, take a class. It is really, like, if you want, like, an activity, if you want to, like, if you want to get to know someone, if you want to, like, if you want to get to know someone, if you want that, like, fourth date,

fifth date, you want to be like, okay, let's see how they handle feelings. We've had blind dates. I've had blind dates. I don't know if I can

endorse that. That's a lot. It was a lot. Oh my God. It's a, it's a really, it's a really cool day. Honestly,

I feel like it should be more of a thing Paige do you like people following you? no if you're following Paige don't follow her now don't follow Paige at Russell J. Daniels on Instagram and come see

Titanic the musical at the J.L. Roth Theater you still can this is June 13th this is coming up I will can. This is June 13th. This is coming out. I will be at Pittsburgh tomorrow, June 14th. June 15th through 17th, I will be at the Detroit House of Comedy. And

just in case we have these listeners, because this will have been announced by then, I'm doing a big Europe run. Milan, Italy, November 1st. London, November 2nd through 4th, maybe 5th. Berlin, November 1st. London, November 2nd through 4th, maybe 5th. Berlin, November 7th. Amsterdam, November 8th.

Paris, November 9th. It is sure to be a miserable time for me personally. I will not enjoy a single moment of it, but it's exciting. And like everything else, it's for a future gig that would potentially be better. Thank you so much. Thank you. And, you know, whether you get stuffed,

cremated, or buried, the bottom line is you will be forgotten. This is The Downside. This is the downside. You're listening to The Downside. The Downside. With Gianmarco Cerezi.