The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #177 Performance Anxiety with Isabel Hagen

Episode Date: December 26, 2023

Isabel Hagen (standup comedian and violist) joins us to share the downsides of playing the viola, dealing with performance anxiety, going to Juilliard, growing up in a family of musicians, what it’s... like to make your own movie about musicians, and playing in Broadway pits. Gianmarco learns that Russell can play the saxophone, and shares his skepticism about orchestra conductors.  You can watch full video of this episode HERE! Join the Patreon for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and MORE. Follow Isabel on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, & TikTok See Isabel in a city near you: https://www.isabelhagen.com/shows-1 Keep an eye out for Isabel's movie, On A String! Follow The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi on Instagram Get tickets to our live podcast recording in NYC on January 8 here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/743999631927 Follow Gianmarco Soresi on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, & YouTube Subscribe to Gianmarco Soresi's email & texting lists Check out Gianmarco Soresi's bi-monthly show in NYC Get tickets to see Gianmarco Soresi in a city near you Watch Gianmarco Soresi's special "Shelf Life" on Amazon Follow Russell Daniels on Twitter & Instagram E-mail the show at TheDownsideWGS@gmail.com Produced by Paige Asachika & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Dave Columbo Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:23 Shop at Sephora today. Limitations apply. Must be a beauty insider. See terms at sephora today limitations apply must be a beauty insider see terms at sephora.com for complete details welcome to the downside my name is jamarcus i forgot my notes can you pass me my backpack please i i'm working on trying to i realize that my intros for this show are not always they're not not clean. If you're a new listener, and we need new listeners in addition to our wonderful fans, I need to make it clear. This is a
Starting point is 00:00:52 place where we complain, where we kvetch, which is Jewish for complaining, and we have guests on to just talk about what's shitty and what's bad, and it doesn't matter if it's personal or big or small. And it's a comedy podcast.
Starting point is 00:01:09 I'm so close to you. Are the new couches okay? No, they're great. I'm just getting used to it because I feel like we're in a love seat. This is called a love seat, right? Because we brought in, we got new couches. Yes. And I don't know if you've ever had this hat where someone
Starting point is 00:01:25 brings a new piece of furniture it's a big to do in new york city and then we put it in a 90 degree angle and it it wasn't right and i was like i hyperventilated yeah it felt like i was moving and not moving yeah and uh so this is okay this is great i like this i like our guests is right across from us i like that that. It feels strong. It feels good. I'm just getting used to how close we are in this setting, but it's kind of nice. Yeah. This is like some nice physical.
Starting point is 00:01:54 I can do a lot of, do you feel, forgive me, do you ever feel like people like hit you? Like a pat. Like they give you like a, oh. Yeah, oh, people love a big guy, like doing that with big guy's shoulders. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Starting point is 00:02:09 Or like this part of the arm. They're like, there's a, this haunch. You can really like, they can really hit it, you know? Do you ever go like,
Starting point is 00:02:16 okay, no, I'm not. No, I don't mind it. I don't mind it. I mean, I would mind if they were like patting my belly. They were like, like that would make me uncomfortable.
Starting point is 00:02:25 But it's generally like, you know, like a, yeah. We're here today. I think it would be good if you put the guest in the corner. You cornered your guest. You know, you just like surrounded them. Yeah, and I was just like right here. It is tough, man, making a podcast studio in a New York City apartment. A huge mistake.
Starting point is 00:02:47 And I know they're going to raise the rent. I know the moment this is perfect, they're going to raise the rent and we'll have to go. Yeah. There's a podcast. There's a free podcast place. It's down the street. And it's like the glass is to the street, but you can rent it. Wait, why is it free?
Starting point is 00:03:02 Who knows? Who knows? Some New York thingork how do they make their money i don't i just cannot imagine podcasting while looking at homeless people actively in front of you yeah and and then being like don't worry if this podcast lasts long enough we'll be we'll be right there next to you uh so so isabel we'll get to you in a second sure i uh but feel free to talk as i as i please um i got i'm trying to i'm get to you in a second. Sure. But feel free to talk as I should. Please.
Starting point is 00:03:27 I'm trying to figure out a format for the intro. I feel like I want to say one shitty thing that happened that week. But then when I thought of a shitty thing, it was so shitty. I was like, no, it's sad. It doesn't frame it well. What is it? You know what it is. The shitty thing that happened this week.
Starting point is 00:03:44 We've both posted about it And I'm like that's not It's got to be shitty and far away It's got to be further away So I did want to share I did get an email I got an angry We've been talking a little more about our political views
Starting point is 00:03:59 Not that this is a political podcast We've been talking a little more About Israel and Palestine and I did get this email from someone and I think it ties into this podcast pretty well it says your repost of that
Starting point is 00:04:16 anti-Zionist meme I don't know what this is in reference to it says I am so sad that you have chosen to side with the quote unquote from the river to the sea crowd I was your biggest fan. Now I unfollowed you on all the platforms, including your podcast. It is not Israel's fault that Hamas hides behind its own people. The deaths of civilians in Gaza are on their heads.
Starting point is 00:04:35 Israel's first responsibility, as with every other nation on earth, is to protect its own people. Meanwhile, your spreading of this meme and other hateful misinformation makes things unsafe for all Jews worldwide. Shame on you. Okay. Now, first, let me just be clear. When you disagree with me on some political view, and I don't mean this to be too cocky, but it is to a degree. You unfollowing me, it's not a big deal. People unfollow me because I posted a joke that wasn't very good.
Starting point is 00:05:03 Yeah. And now when you unfollow Russell, that's a problem. Russell, he sees it. I see it. My number's not affected. It says 250K. It impacts me and my family. Your thing.
Starting point is 00:05:18 So I wrote back. I said, you know, in my – I'm sorry. I'm not as comfortable. You wrote back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they emailed me through my website. That feels the most personal way to contact me. Message, Instagram, whatever. I'm sorry I'm not as
Starting point is 00:05:32 comfortable with the mass murder of innocent civilians as you. Something like that. Got him. Thought that might change his mind. Now he wrote this back and let's see if we can all play this game. They said, I will answer you in a language you'll understand. You are kind. Oh, understand. You are kind. Oh, sorry.
Starting point is 00:05:46 You are young. Life has been kind to you. You will learn. I'll miss your theater kid jokes. Goodbye. Quick trivia. And sorry to the listeners who think I do too many theater references. What are those song lyrics from?
Starting point is 00:06:02 I don't know. I knew right away what musical took me. A little bit to narrow it down. No, Isabel, no? You should know this. Okay, I'll sing it now. You are young. Life has been kind to you.
Starting point is 00:06:15 You will learn. It's Sweeney Todd. Sweeney Todd. Okay, okay. Now, who sings the song that they are referencing as pearls of wisdom for me to clutch onto? Sweeney Todd. Sweeney Todd, that is correct. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:06:30 The barber. Who gets his throat cut. Who murders a bunch of innocent civilians and ultimately kills his own wife because he was unable to distinguish that she was her. Bad. Bad reference. Bad sample. Bad example. For this thing. Bad, bad sample. Bad example.
Starting point is 00:06:47 For this thing. Wow, got him. This is The Downside. One, two, three. You're listening to The Downside. The Downside. With Gianmarco Cerezi. So thanks for being here, Isabel. Thanks for having me.
Starting point is 00:07:06 You, multi-talented, stand-up comedian, writer, violist. Violist? Whoa. Violist. Violist. Yes. Violist. Did you practice that before she came?
Starting point is 00:07:21 No, it was off the dome. I like violist. Violist. That's like someone who's really into veal. People usually say violist but i've never heard violist yeah now that you've said that i now forget violist yes violist yeah um we're not the classiest of podcasts let me just say this out the gate i love tar you love tar love it i i met someone who does photography for symphonies and they said tar's nonsense it was they like it was uh they they they they talked about it the way that i talk about what's that show about the late night host oh um oh well um indy kaling one yeah yeah
Starting point is 00:08:02 well i don't remember late night late night And they were just like, how accurate? That's the thing. Not accurate. Was it fun? I'll tell you, he's a photographer of a symphony. I'm a violist in a symphony and I thought it was pretty damn accurate. So yeah. First of all, all the musicians were actually playing except for the one concert master
Starting point is 00:08:20 who was like the wife of Cate Blanchett. They're all actually playing, which I think you don't see in movies a lot at all um you guys talk about that movies you're like yeah it looks insane if you know how to play an instrument like mozart in the jungle like the people playing look like ridiculous like clowns you know like you're like what are they even doing what do they do like compare like what's what's the motions that the actor does. So it should be like this. Uh-huh. Yeah. It doesn't look... It's the same when you see a fake band
Starting point is 00:08:52 like the guitar player. It's the same kind of thing where you're like, that person's not playing clearly. Drumming when it's not drumming. We talked about it, but I did a movie where the extras were in a band on a late night show. And the saxophonist was playing, but his mouth wasn't on the mouthpiece. So he was just like jamming.
Starting point is 00:09:15 Like smiling. And I'm there, and I'm like, it's not my responsibility to say, Billy Crystal, this guy's fucking it up. But man, did it look stupid. That is so funny. That's why you can't get rid of, you can't AI generate extras. You'll lose those magical moments. I want to see an extra who doesn't know how to put his mouth on the... You just finished filming a movie.
Starting point is 00:09:43 I did. Did you have extras in it yes i did you use an extras casting director no i i asked people who i knew to show up sure but we used all real musicians for because it was a movie about music it was a movie about musicians and pretty much everyone who was playing was actually playing that was like a big thing for me uh-huh i wanted it to look real and be actually live captured string quartet music um and i because i think it's more compelling because the even like the facial expressions of people you're not actually playing it's going to
Starting point is 00:10:22 be like contract you're going to be like pretending like you're into it. But if you're actually playing, you're actually emotionally moved by what you're doing. So your face is going to show that. So I think cinematically, it's just even better. It's not just a sound thing
Starting point is 00:10:33 or like a technique thing. It's like you're missing out on like the actual emotions. Well, in your mind, would you rather have someone who's not as good an actor, but the playing is that? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:10:43 Sure. If they're going to play. Sure. I think, I think like certain disciplines, you can't, I think they said, uh,
Starting point is 00:10:52 uh, Leonard Bernstein, who's playing him. Bernstein, Bernstein, right? Cooper, Bradley Cooper,
Starting point is 00:10:57 Bradley Cooper, that he like learned six minutes on a piano or whatever. But the bottom line is there's no way it's, there's no way it's as good. The same way I thought was so interesting when Daniel Day-Lewis did Nine is that I'm really self-conscious about all these comments about people going, you talk about theater too much.
Starting point is 00:11:13 I'm going to keep pushing through. Screw them. Screw them. It's your passion. Screw them. Your podcast. Daniel Day-Lewis, no one works harder than him,
Starting point is 00:11:22 and his singing was dog shit. And it was like, yeah, because you can't just learn how to sing no you can't and it's like i don't know it depends on the movie and what the priority is for but you know if they're playing for like two seconds in a movie then you're sure get someone to fake it but if the movie is like about a musician well you know thing too i feel like there's a crowd of actors these days where they think that the time put in gives them some kind of extra credit they're like like brad cooper had that quote this week of being like you can't just jump into a film six months like i've been working on this for years and you're like cool man like still like that doesn't matter that impacts me in no way
Starting point is 00:12:01 when i watch it sure am i being like he did this for seven years. Wow, great, cool. You know, a lot of times people do that stuff and then I'm like, I'm still seeing a dumb makeup job and like a silly performance that doesn't do anything different for me. You know, because oftentimes it's like, just hire someone that can really do the thing
Starting point is 00:12:19 that you're looking for. A lot of times. I don't know about his movie Maestro, but I'm just saying like. Natalie Portman in Black Swan. There was some like, you know, her extras did a lot of the ballet don't know about his movie maestro but i'm just saying like natalie portman in uh black swan there was some like you know her extras did a lot of the ballet moves i'm like good right you know what you know what i i've never admired in a ballet their acting abilities yeah so so it's fine it's still a great movie but what's more misrepresented in media playing an instrument or stand-up comedy stand-up comedy yeah well always terrible in
Starting point is 00:12:47 media i mean i don't know it's it's i haven't seen everything about each thing so i couldn't really say but like in mazel for instance like she's doing a different bit she's doing a different five minutes every time you see her yeah that's the most unathletic that's insane she should have been doing the same 10 minutes all four seasons oh Oh, my God. That's really so funny. She just started? But that's all stand-up things like, you know, Seinfeld. Like, you're always seeing a different bit. Even in Crashing, which was made by comedians, he's doing different bits every time you see him.
Starting point is 00:13:16 At least with Crashing, he was doing, like, his existing old material, which is a cool detail, at least. But that's why I think, at least with music, you're playing the hits. You're playing Mozart. So the music is real music. With stand-up, I always say, if you're going to have stand-up in a show, go pay a comedian $10,000 for five minutes of the real act,
Starting point is 00:13:40 and it'll be so much more authentic than making up some fake stand-up for the moment. And having to make up a Che Diaz routine. Oh, my God. That is horrible. I need to watch some of it. I had an idea where I wanted to, like, I can't do a Che Diaz, but, like, do movie stand-up, like, in the middle of an actual set for an audience. To just show how flat it fell.
Starting point is 00:14:01 Like transcribe one of Mazes. Yeah. But I honestly need to get someone Yeah. I would do it, but I honestly need to get someone else. I couldn't find enough examples. Jay Diaz would be great, but obviously I can't do that. Right.
Starting point is 00:14:14 And then like a lot of the other ones, they're just so specific to the story. They're so like, the audience would be freaking out. Yeah, you need a lot of context. Well, it's like learning a monologue. You're like, I'm going to learn the standup routine from crashing episode three, season two. Yeah, you need a lot of context. It's like learning a monologue. You're like, I'm going to learn the stand-up routine from Crashing,
Starting point is 00:14:26 episode three, season two. Yeah. And I've also done things like that on stage and it does, it feels just awful. Yeah. It feels just awful
Starting point is 00:14:34 for the audience to be like, what are you doing? Because you can't respond to them. So you really, it feels the same way as it would on like a hidden camera show. I'm like, I'm pranking you guys.
Starting point is 00:14:46 Right. So, Isabel, we've known each other a while, but. Never spoken. Never spoken. But in terms of the viola, how, to put it blunt, how successful are you at that instrument? Are you at the highest of your field? Are you a world? Like, if you could put it into stand-up terms, I know they're're so different but many similarities like how do you feel about your role my ability as a violist to put it bluntly this is how i describe it to people if there were the viola olympics i would qualify but i wouldn't
Starting point is 00:15:36 win any medals okay so i am a pro so a loser yeah but i'm a fucking loser you know i like i'm i'm very good i'm like i'm i'm top you know but there are so many people who are like really like better than i can think of all the people who are better than me you know like i'm but i'm like competitive with them but i i tend to botch performances and like i'm really i'm like at the at the end of the day i always fuck it up with the viola but but that's like with solo competition. In terms of playing with other people and being hired to back up pop singers and stuff,
Starting point is 00:16:10 I have a great sound. I can read down a chart. I'm as good as you're going to get for that, if I'm being honest. Live, so live, is that a struggle? Do you get nervous? I have a long history of performance anxiety where my hands shake.
Starting point is 00:16:24 And so even if I know the piece left and right i just in the moment my heartbeat is too fast and i just screw it up like i screwed up a lot of my auditions while i was in school and like just a lot of losses try uh the beta blockers yeah yeah no and i still sometimes will use beta blockers and i don't like i'm not afraid to talk about that. It's like, it just slows down your heart rate. It's not like steroids. It doesn't make you better. But it was like, it still wasn't quite enough.
Starting point is 00:16:55 Like I still got in my head. Could you really feel the difference? I thought about it. After I did a Comedy Central taping, I was talking to Kate Willett. Yeah. And she recommended, because i get i get so anxious and i used to beginning a stand-up would have a shaky hand yeah i always get scared
Starting point is 00:17:11 it'll come back well i i never take them for stand-up because i actually like being a little shaky for stand-up sure there's like less physical it doesn't screw me up because it kind of at least for my character on stage it like helps almost almost. But with Viola, I need to be completely relaxed because there's so much detail that can be messed up really. Like with one, you know, shake. Of course. But they really work for me. They do. Would people hear it?
Starting point is 00:17:37 Like do they hear it slightly or was it like you had to stop and go, sorry? I never had to stop. It was the type of thing where like a few times i think anyone could have known and a lot of times like the untrained ear probably would have thought it still sounded good but like all the judges would have been like yeah she was shaky or like she was tight or her you know oh um so and i was getting injured all the time like repetitive stress so it was just it was a very like doomed pursuit for me where was the injury um i left wrist and shoulder mostly my wrist and like my hand is it because you were i mean is it just that's what happens or were you holding it i mean it's like a it's a
Starting point is 00:18:15 you know contortion some people are just built better than others like i just i think i could have worked harder on like solving it but i also just was like like i was kind of looking for a way out yeah also if i'm being honest but it's just people are different your body it's like you're an athlete and like athletes sometimes get injured it's like that just it could just happen yeah so did you ever play any instruments um i played saxophone and uh seven years eight years um what the fuck i can like play chords and things on piano if i had to learn in music school i had to learn like everything a little bit but like i couldn't do that anymore if i had a sax could you like yeah i can still play it but not great nicole's better than me now because she takes a lesson you don't share enough of your life with me i i mean i did it in middle school taking sax lessons i know you didn't know she told your life with me. I mean, I did it in middle school and high school. Nicole's taking sax lessons?
Starting point is 00:19:05 I annoyed you. You didn't know? She told you that all the time. No. No. She's been doing it for two years. Oh, God. Is that tough?
Starting point is 00:19:12 I did sax for four weeks, and I could tell my mom was like, oh, we don't want – she could not put up with me practicing. It was always like if it was past 6 p.m., she was like, oh, God. So I didn't have any support. I didn't want to do it to begin with yeah what would you play if we had a live show and i just said we got a sax here russell yeah yeah yeah can you i mean i could learn it probably what would you play i i don't have a song off the top of my head that i play you you tell me what is a shocking thing to ask
Starting point is 00:19:42 you don't have a song? I was in a band. I was in middle school and high school band. I wasn't out at jazz clubs by myself. If you gave me a guitar, I would play, Another turning point, a fork stuck in the road. And I did that in eighth grade graduation. I still could do it. Okay, okay, okay.
Starting point is 00:19:58 Or I just do like the beginning. I do the first three notes of Let's Epple and Stairway to Heaven. Oh, you just do... And that would be it. You went to music school? Yeah. What school did you go to? Juilliard.
Starting point is 00:20:13 Oh, my God. Wait, you said you're in a group now? Oh, you're not in a group. Okay. I get hired occasionally. I play in groups, but I'm not in a core... Okay. I'm not a core member of anything.
Starting point is 00:20:23 Got it. Yeah. Wow. Juilliard, that's's crazy I feel like was it I feel like was it what was it like I mean do you okay so I went to music school but I was in the wrong place and I didn't really like music school I hated it um I also felt like I didn't fit in with music kids that much. Sometimes it was so stuffy. And you're a comedian. So I just was curious if you ever
Starting point is 00:20:50 felt like, relax. Or no. Or are you that person? I mean, I don't feel like I fit in with comedians. And I don't feel like I fit in with a lot of music. I always other myself.
Starting point is 00:21:05 But with musicians, I found the chill ones. I had a pretty good time at music school. I just also knew while I was there that I wasn't going to be able to sustain a career in it. I enjoyed school while I was there, but knew that I was screwed. Now, is that your outlook? Or you could feel like,
Starting point is 00:21:24 oh, I don't have the skill or the ambition? I didn't have the ambition. I felt like I didn't have the skill. I'm very down on myself. Just like super, like I convinced myself I was just like the worst violist in the world. But like, obviously I know that's not true. Do you think Julia just let one in like every year?
Starting point is 00:21:42 Yeah, I'm like, how'd I get in here? Let's let the worst one in too, just to give the kids perspective. I will say like, because I play it sometimes in my act now and playing it for like just people who have maybe never even heard a string instrument before and like seeing their faces like light up. Like it's kind of been therapeutic for me because I'm like, oh, like I am like good at this. Like this is like a special ability I have.
Starting point is 00:22:02 And like just bringing it to like anywhere, playing like in comedy clubs or clubs like wherever it's just like you kind of realize because when you're at it just plays like juilliard like you're just comparing yourself to like the top top top one percent of players sure and you're in like stuffy concert halls all the time but like just playing for people it's just like just play you know and like everyone loves it and even if i mess up and no one cares no one even notices i When I think about it, we had one girl in my middle school who did music. So I'm curious, like the beginning, because I felt like I saw her as like, I was like a lazy kid. I did school. I got fine grades.
Starting point is 00:22:37 But like she was practicing hours and hours every single day. And I remember when I was in my 20s and I found out she had stopped. For me, I was like, I don't understand. Because I'm very much, I want to be the best at a thing. When you first started, how old were you? Five. Five. And is it family musical?
Starting point is 00:22:56 Yeah. My dad's a jazz saxophonist. And, daddy. And my older brother is a very gifted, high-achieving pianist and orchestral conductor. Oh. So I had, you know. And were you drawn to it from a young age? Like, did you, was he always playing around?
Starting point is 00:23:18 Would he play you to sleep when you were a baby? No, no. No, he would just, like, play really loudly in the living room on the piano. You know, like, oh, my dad? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, my dad never played for me. me no no um no he would just like play really loudly in the living room on the piano you know like oh my dad yeah yeah no no my dad never played for me he would he would like sing us to sleep a little bit sweet and my brother we shared a room you know but i had a kid i'd be singing a lot yeah it's a nice thing if you can sing sing for your child you know yeah my parents did your parents sing for you i don't remember it but maybe would sing or were you just like whatever workshop you were doing?
Starting point is 00:23:46 Yeah, whatever I'm working on. It would be tough to not use my kids to help me memorize lines, for sure. So you started at five. I mean, are you like going hard right out the gate? No, no. And I started on violin. And my dad would make me practice. We like fought all the time.
Starting point is 00:24:05 He had to bribe me to practice with Beanie Babies. Did that work? It did. How many Beanie Babies per hour? It was like every week that I practiced every day for a while, I got a lot of Beanie Babies. Every couple years or so, I think my dad, money gets tight. And he calls me and he says, hey, can we sell the Beanie Babies?
Starting point is 00:24:28 And I say, dad, I don't think there's any money. They're not worth anything anymore. I tried to sell mine. You did. And they were worth, I missed the boat, so then I just gave them to my little cousin. Oh, my God. How many did you have, do you think? Oh, like, not that many.
Starting point is 00:24:40 Maybe like 40. Oh, I had like a container. Maybe they'll come back around. You know? Yeah. I get mad when I see, like Beanie Babies, clearly they started selling out a little. Like they started doing branding. And now it's like Ronald McDonald Beanie Baby.
Starting point is 00:24:53 And I'm like, get the fuck out. Yeah. Who was your favorite? I had a cat named Nip. I know Nip. Yeah. Black and orange. Well, there was Chip, who was black and orange.
Starting point is 00:25:03 Then there was Nip, who was just like brown. I had both. And then I had Nuts, the squirrel. I think, was the squirrel Nuts? It sounds right. Makes sense. Yes. Yes.
Starting point is 00:25:18 For me, mine was Spot. Spot was like. Oh, I loved Spot. I don't know why, but like, I swear, I could see it now, and you'd see it in my brain, some kind of recognition. I lost Spot. Spot was like, I don't know why, but like, I swear I could see it now and you'd see in my brain some kind of recognition. I lost Spot. Oh. And I, the one Beanie Baby that I really, the rare ones.
Starting point is 00:25:34 I mean, I never, the only rare one I ever had, I had Princess Diana like a little bit early. Not at the beginning. What? Wait. It was a Princess Diana Beanie Baby? Oh, yeah. Like the dead?
Starting point is 00:25:44 You made a person? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was a bear. It wasn baby? Oh, yeah. Like the dead? They made a person? Yeah, but it was a bear. It wasn't like her corpse. It was a... Was it before or after she died? I believe it was like the anniversary of her death. I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure it was post her being dead. Because I had no connection to Princess Diana.
Starting point is 00:26:00 Well, they made a lot of bears. Bears was like their thing. And this one was purple. And they usually had like a chest thing. And it was like some kind of flower bouquet. And there was a time where it was like the thing. And my dad, you know, thought he'd get some points against my mom if he got me. And we had it in a case.
Starting point is 00:26:18 But there were... Did you ever collect Beanie Babies? It was exciting. And they had like the malfunctioned ones. There was a light blue elephant, but there was a dark blue... There was spot, but they forgot the spot. And that was worth, at a time, a thousand trillion dollars.
Starting point is 00:26:36 Or quackers without the wings. Quackers without the wings. Yeah. Oh, God. There's ones missing legs. And these were like factory mishaps that someone got fired for and then resulted in. They're making a movie about it. What?
Starting point is 00:26:53 Who? About what? About the whole Beanie Baby. Because it's a whole market. And then how do you not flood the market? About the creation of Beanie Babies? The creation, the rise. It was big.
Starting point is 00:27:04 Beanie Babies were huge. I'm not arguing with you. And now they're at fucking gas stations. And it's Peppa Pig, Beanie Baby. And the poems are terrible. The poems. The poems. What poems?
Starting point is 00:27:18 In the heart tag. You swear to God, it's like you don't live in this world. In the heart tag, there'd be a four line. I believe they were couplets or maybe it was. You're saying they're bad now and they were good or they were always bad? Well, I was much younger at the time. But it was like, this is a dog. His name is Spot.
Starting point is 00:27:40 His behind has a slot. Okay. Something like that. Less sexual than that. So your dad would bribe you with Beanie Babies? Uh-huh. My mom was a food for good spelling test. That was my parents' bribe.
Starting point is 00:28:01 Food that you needed for nourishment or a treat? She'd give you food. You'd get breakfast. No, it was like I'd get a second hostess cupcake. Pretty low stakes. Pretty low stakes. But also, two hostess cupcakes
Starting point is 00:28:11 is too many hostess cupcakes. That's why you have an eating disorder now. I think so. That's why you're eating all those carrots. What were your parents' reward system?
Starting point is 00:28:20 I mean, I think it varied because sometimes it could be like a toy thing. Sometimes it would be like we're getting Pizza Hut for dinner. You know, I think they varied because sometimes it could be like a toy thing. Sometimes it would be like we're getting Pizza Hut for dinner. I think they varied it. That's the kind of stuff like if I had a kid, I have a million questions,
Starting point is 00:28:34 but I Google like is reward-based teaching okay? Right. What kind of behavioralism am I allowed to use on my child? What have they tied this to later in life? am I allowed to use on my child? What have they tied this to later in life? I think it teaches your kid that something will make them happy when it won't.
Starting point is 00:28:52 So it might lead to a lot of dissatisfaction. When really, if you just teach them to enjoy the work without the reward. Yeah. Sure, sure. Good luck. Good fucking luck. Do you think you would have kept playing
Starting point is 00:29:06 the instrument though if you didn't have the reward and and maybe maybe that would be i wish i had a different life for you i think that's admirable that your dad did that i think i would because he also guilted me because there was a time when i was like that's it i'm quitting and he was like i mean okay you might regret it and then then I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, I can't quit. Like, like I was so scared of that regret that he,
Starting point is 00:29:28 you know, is that all it took or would it fester? You'd be like, I quit. How was the longest you quit? I never quit. I just said I wanted to quit and would cry. And then he would say like,
Starting point is 00:29:37 whatever. And then say, do you want to quit? And I'd be like, no, you know, I mean, I think there was a part of me deep down that also just knew that music needed to be a part of my life.
Starting point is 00:29:47 Yeah. Because it was one of the few things that made me feel connected to the world as a child. And I had no sense of any interest in comedy. I know I was funny and I did impressions as a kid. Sure. And I never thought that was anything to take seriously or anything. I had no idea about pursuing comedy as a kid. Sure. And I never thought that was anything to take seriously or anything. I had no idea about pursuing comedy
Starting point is 00:30:07 as a career. I had no idea how anyone would do that. Yeah. Even people did that. Sure. And then I started seeing stand-up
Starting point is 00:30:12 and I was like, wow, that's cool. I feel like with being good at viola definitely doesn't get you points with your peers at regular school. Not at all.
Starting point is 00:30:22 Not at all. No. To say I was unpopular is an understatement. I mean, I was really just invisible. I wasn't like intensely bullied at school. I was really just ignored. Did you ever get a moment of like, you opened assembly and you played a song and everyone went, whoa.
Starting point is 00:30:41 Not with Viola. I have a very good voice. Really? I started doing the voice classes at my school and we had a musical theater workshop and I sang Poor Wandering one from Gilbert and Sullivan.
Starting point is 00:30:56 Do you know that one? From Pirates of Penzance. I don't really know Pirates of Penzance. It's all high color. I really just dazzled everyone. After that, everyone looked at me a little different different what year was that uh it was senior year of high school yeah so right at the tail end they're like hey we should have been an asshole because like other years i like sang to the floor and i mean i still sounded good but i just wasn't as like i guess i didn't yeah yeah and then like some reason I just, they gave me like a parasol for the, because it
Starting point is 00:31:27 was like a workshop. It wasn't like a full show. Yeah. But I like just last minute became like a total comedian and ham and like did a whole thing and got laughs. And that was like a big moment for me. Sure. Sure.
Starting point is 00:31:38 Yeah. And I don't really sing that much anymore. What, did you ever have a moment where you got to be like, show your abilities, your performance abilities in a way that like your school saw? Yeah. I mean, I did the shows. I did the musicals. Did you do one in middle school?
Starting point is 00:31:57 Oh, you did. I did the musicals. But then in high school, I did. Did you get a lot of pussy after that? I didn't get a lot of pussy after that. It didn't really translate that way. I did the musicals, but for comedy, I wouldn't do the talent shows. I wouldn't sing in the talent shows.
Starting point is 00:32:20 I had to do the sketch. The only reason I joined student council was because I went to a show When I was in 9th grade I went and saw the talent show And the people who put on the show Student council Did sketches in between the acts And I was so mad Because it was so bad
Starting point is 00:32:39 And they just like stole SNL bits And just did it And I was like you can't just do bits from another show so i was so mad that i was like i'm joining student council and i'm going to take over that the show and be like the like do sketches in between yeah so i did that and i don't know but but it went well it went well i did it for three years in a row and we we as hosts won which was not allowed but we won
Starting point is 00:33:06 the last my senior year because that was the best part of the show is the sketches so believe it but
Starting point is 00:33:13 find those scripts let's act it out yeah so okay so then you you go to Juilliard we all know
Starting point is 00:33:21 but you've I did the research you were visiting Juilliard what every summer or after school? every Saturday where do you live? I live in
Starting point is 00:33:30 I grew up in Manhattan oh yeah alright were you going to the symphony as a kid? a little bit yeah
Starting point is 00:33:37 yeah I was I was around it I was very you know I was what's the word groomed for a life in music groom music that's not the right that's not a good word that is that is that does have other meanings it really is yeah we've lost it
Starting point is 00:33:53 what part of new york did you grow up in i was also grew no um i grew up in lower manhattan so not that far from here okay uh should we reveal where we are i don't know they know where my face outside yeah uh were you like like was like were you going to the met a lot like were you living in artsy because your dad yeah not that much i mean but when i because i was a violinist and then violist so like yeah my parents would like take me to see string players like you know i think i went to like a hillary hann concert when i was little and like some other people like sarah chang or these like very well known violets i'm just to like show me like the best of the best um but not like a ton i mostly spent time just like at home practicing sure um i would i if i went to a classical thing I'd have so much coffee I'd plan my caffeine intake
Starting point is 00:34:48 And I don't ever mean it as disrespect Apparently my father It's fucking boring Yeah But if you know it, it can be fun It's one of those things where Yeah, when you're doing it It's like Shakespeare a little bit
Starting point is 00:34:59 Yeah If you're like doing it You're like, I'm having a great time But sometimes when you're watching it It's not as fun when you're doing it, you're like, I'm having a great time. But sometimes when you're watching it, it's not as fun when you're doing it. I tried so hard to get into opera because I had an opera teacher. And for me, I admired just the greatness of the singers. And I was like, I want to be able to sing like Pavarotti does and do musical theater.
Starting point is 00:35:21 Truly delusional. And I would sit in a library with scores open and try to follow along to the best of my abilities. And it's just like, I like the big, flashy, firework-y songs. And then the rest was torture. It was torture. And I went, I wish I could be different. I wish I could.
Starting point is 00:35:40 But I can't. I mean, me going to the symphony would be like, let's do this. This is good. And I feel bad how uncultured I am. Yeah, but it doesn't actually mean, like, first of all, the symphony I can handle better than opera because opera, the music itself
Starting point is 00:35:58 is usually so beautiful, but the singing has so much vibrato that the pitch gets lost. And so that you don't actually sense the harmony and the beauty of the music it's just like this athleticism that's like funny like not funny like fun for a second to watch but then it's just it like i have to be moved in my body by the music yeah so if you're singing like like it's like what are you even getting from that i i often feel like too like it feels so that they're so focused on the technical element to it that i don't feel when i'm watching i'm like do you know what you're saying here do you know what you're doing here and sometimes sometimes
Starting point is 00:36:34 there's rare things where you see a clip of something like oh that's very moving very beautiful blah blah but i think in general that's in when i was in music school i'd go to watch these recitals and these things and i'd be like be like, they're so worried about the breath and the thing and how it's coming out and blah, blah, blah, that there's no sort of communicating happening of what is happening in this. Sure, but that's like, go to musical theater, ultimately. You can do both. That's why I get annoyed by opera, because it's like, I feel like you can still do that's why i get annoyed by opera because it's like i i the the uh i feel like you can still do that and have that technical thing but i agree with you on the thing too it's like sometimes you'll hear what is deemed a great voice and you're like i don't know that's like
Starting point is 00:37:16 going so much here and there that i don't think it sounds that great yeah it's just noise yeah so you're not a snob at all or do you hide your snobbiness it depends what you mean by i mean i'm very critical uh-huh but i'm critical of a lot of things people deem snobby so maybe that makes me seem like not a snob because i'm like oh i don't give a shit about that stuff i went through a real phase of where i was like a snob about and looking back was so foolish and it was because of a voice teacher i had where like if someone's singing wasn't good i'd be like yeah but they were cracking but yeah they were flat but yeah and now i'm like very different i'm like they made me they told a story i don't give a shit
Starting point is 00:37:55 yeah but i went through a music my college years i was like a singing snob yeah i mean i'm very critical i'm very high standards but and i guess that makes me a snob in some ways uh-huh but uh i also like enjoy lots of like shitty things sure so what about your peers were there any big snobs there of course yeah of course and i mean within like string playing i'm gonna i'm the ultimate snob because because I know how good it can be. So I mean, like I'll, you know, my partner thinks I'm a snob because he's more in like the rock world. So he'll like play me a recording of a string player and I'm just like, they suck. And he's like, be nice. They're good.
Starting point is 00:38:39 It is hard. It is hard. But I, for me, I think the most snobby is, I think you're the same, is acting. There are people where I'm like, they're a terrible actor. But it's just what you see. I mean, once you see what you see, it's impossible to not. It's the same with music. There's so much ignorance is bliss when it comes to art.
Starting point is 00:39:02 I'm not doing it when I'm in a scene with them or something. I'm doing it when sometimes it's on TV or something and you're like, that person has a... More often than not, if we were to compile all our criticisms other than saying this is not funny... Funny is probably the number one, but number two is just the acting was bad.
Starting point is 00:39:20 It's just like you can feel it as a vibe. But that's what we did. Yeah, but what is bad acting i that's so true no when you see it shut up you don't think that at all you don't think that at all you go bad bad okay great bad bad the other day the other day someone i'm bad and good sometimes that's the crazy thing about it is like you sometimes of course but the ones we're talking about i know yeah but the other day someone someone on twitter who i respect as like a podcaster and political commentator like said like natalie portman's a bad actor and i want to be like okay so you don't know what you're
Starting point is 00:39:56 talking about you could say bad choices you could say a weird take or even overdramatic. But Natalie Portman is an excellent actor. You're nuts and you shouldn't be allowed to speak on acting anymore because if you think that, you cannot see. You cannot see. It made me really mad.
Starting point is 00:40:20 I was like, what are you fucking talking about? It was one of the hosts of Chapo Trap House posted. I was like, what are you fucking talking about? It was one of the hosts of Chapo Trap House posted. I just like, and I think his takes about movies. But when he said that, I was like, oh, then you don't know. Then you don't know what acting is. They just don't like her face, probably. You know, like they're just people.
Starting point is 00:40:39 I feel like when people say that about obviously good actors, it's because you just don't like them. They're like playing unlikable characters. I don't know. Yeah. I think if you are unable to talk about things that you don't like but you admit are good, you just don't like. If you can't separate I don't personally want to do this and them being talented or not, you're broken. You can see people in things that you don't like
Starting point is 00:41:05 and be like, they're great in that. Sure. I hate that. Goodberg, Titanic. Shut up. I think that's what makes someone cultured is being able to separate their own tastes from critiquing a piece of art.
Starting point is 00:41:21 Sure. People who are uncultured are just like, I don't like that. It's bad. I don't like it. Yeah. But if are uncomfortable are just like, I don't like that. You know, like, it's bad. I don't like it. But if you're like, oh, I don't understand it, or I don't like it, but I think it's good, probably that to me is all it takes to be cultured.
Starting point is 00:41:33 It's like an awareness of something beyond yourself and your self's dumb feelings and reactions. Are you at the height of your viola abilities, or have you dipped because you can't practice as much anymore um i don't know i don't play that much so it's hard i feel like i've become better in a way because i'm looser i care less and i have like enough foundation of technique built that it's like i'm not gonna like really dip that much but again i'm not playing like the hardest stuff anymore i'm not trying to learn all the concertos sure i could probably build that back up it's like riding a bike but um
Starting point is 00:42:09 i just i don't so i don't really know but i i can still make like a beautiful sound and like play like yeah whatever like recording sessions and movie school things i get hired for that are like not very difficult but they still want good players players for. I'm having a real crisis when it comes to acting, where I haven't acted in a very long time. Like truly. Okay. Sketch, whatever. But I feel like my internal bar of what good acting is,
Starting point is 00:42:42 is very high. And I'm so not even close to touching it that I just, I feel, and this is not me looking for like advice or that I'm wrong, but it's just like, it's been really hard to have studied something so intensely and practiced it so hard. And all I see now when I revisit it is I'm like,
Starting point is 00:43:06 oh, you are out of shape. You don't even know what, and acting is tricky in and of itself. It's like, it's brain games. I mean, so it feels like all I'm now is now thinking about what my mouth doing. Like I'm like stuck. And you balance that with stuff with the industry
Starting point is 00:43:23 where you have to constantly be like, yeah, let me get that audition. Oh, I'd love to go for that. And inside I'm like, they shouldn't put me in that. And it's just been a challenge I've been having recently. And now that the strike's over, I have to confront it. Yeah. And like just, you know, because all your reps are just like, no, you're great. And you're like, okay.
Starting point is 00:43:44 But the discipline is transferable aren't you just applying that discipline to stand up discipline is transferable but i think like i think i had a point where i was like i'm not a great actor and i tried every which way every technique every fucking mental game and i think ultimately i was like like to the degree of my brain doesn't allow me to pretend or buy into or go on the journey of the way an actor needs to do and i can do other things to fake it but there's a wall right and so it's really hard i just think i just think it's been hard to like have a discipline that used to that used to be there and then revisit it with that high bar as opposed to a comedian not not
Starting point is 00:44:36 saying you specifically saying a lot of stand-up comedians who get to acting later right and just you know it's new it's fresh and so they can enjoy the journey of getting better it's super new for me and i'm totally enjoying that yeah you said did you study it a lot like did you or did you just go for it i never studied it but but stand-up makes i think makes you good at being at least like you're a version of yourself because you're delivering jokes every night as if they're new but they're not like that's acting in a way like i mean not every stand-up is gonna be a good actor but i think it's like common for stand-ups to be like pretty good actors naturally not like shakespeare just like really virtuoso actors but like sure
Starting point is 00:45:15 they can be convincing in a simple scene and like yes yeah convey be natural and be loose and whatever yeah you know i don't. Do you want to act still? That's another, it's another, I don't know. I've been, I'm at a low point creatively. Hmm.
Starting point is 00:45:34 For those who are enjoying the podcast, join the Patreon, patreon.com slash downside. We got bonus episodes. We got our live episodes. We got one coming out with Sebastian Connelly soon that is so fucking good i might have to release it on the main feed and uh uh we're mixing out
Starting point is 00:45:51 the patreon we're doing some new stuff we're trying this is not going to be a regular thing but this time russell and i uh we watched we're recording it after this episode in reality but it already came out uh we reviewed uh lady ballers the new horrible comedy from the Daily Wire. So you never have to see it. Unfortunately, conservative comedy movies are not going away. And it's best that we understand why they're bad so you can save your dads and brothers from going down that rabbit hole. This episode is brought to you by A Real Pain. From Searchlight Pictures comes one of the buzziest films at Sundance Film Festival, A Real Pain. Written, directed, and starring Oscar nominee Jesse Eisenberg alongside Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin.
Starting point is 00:46:31 Witness a hilarious and moving story about two mismatched cousins as they tour through Poland to honour their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. Y'all afraid of ghosts? How about ghost peppers? It's the moment you've been waiting for. The ghost pepper sandwich is back at Popeyes. A buttermilk-battered chicken breast served on a brioche bun
Starting point is 00:46:57 with barrel-cured pickles. And here's the best part. It's topped with a sauce made from ghost peppers and oncho chilies. If that doesn't send a chill of anticipation down your spine nothing will get your ghost pepper sandwich today at popeyes before it ghosts you for another year um so you made a movie with a great cast. Yeah, who's in it? We got Eric Bogosian. We got Dylan Baker. Great. Jamie Lee.
Starting point is 00:47:26 Dylan Baker. Yeah. From Happiness, my favorite movie. That movie is so good. I don't think I've seen Happiness. No one's seen it. It's so good. It's so good, and it's so funny.
Starting point is 00:47:35 Better than Lady Ballers? Yeah. I love Todd Solon's. I love everything he makes. He was in... Very up-to-date picture. That movie... People will be talking about that movie on x for three
Starting point is 00:47:45 months if it came out now oh yeah because of some of the stuff in there you call it x that mean you want to throw no i know call it twitter i've been re i've been corrected like five times last day so i'm i'm i'm oh you said it made me okay twitter twitter sorry uh uh anyways great movie yeah he was in the good Wife I think is that correct yeah okay because he played like a crazy character
Starting point is 00:48:09 in The Good Wife I never saw The Good Wife it was a long time ago before I knew all of Julian Margolis' views but it was a fun show yeah it was fun
Starting point is 00:48:18 it was sexy it was lawyers and I feel like if you're a lawyer that show probably drives you crazy did you was Mozart in the Jungle did musicians like it
Starting point is 00:48:28 or did they hate it? they hated it, I mean it was like fun because it was like let's see what they get wrong this time I watched a lot of it but it was like a total joke yeah but to your point would the accurate version be
Starting point is 00:48:43 on this episode they all practice the whole day? Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. The less fun. Truthful. Not to plug my movie. Sure.
Starting point is 00:48:53 But I do think my movie is a very accurate depiction of at least one musician. Uh-huh. I mean, it's based on my world as a violist. And I think it's not just me practicing. There are other things you can focus on around that world. world as a as a violist and like i think it's it's not just me practicing you know that's there's like there are other things you can focus on around that war i mean the thing is the thing is like all these movies and shows about a world like music or the medical it's like it's never actually the thing they're doing that's that interesting because that's always the same
Starting point is 00:49:19 shit that's like working hard at something and there's going to be the same kind of politics and same weird personalities in every industry it's what's going on around it that's just like the vehicle that you have to like create a story yeah so it's never actually like gonna be good if it's like too much about the thing and not about actually just like humans doing sure you know what i mean i don't know no i totally know what you mean's more just like, then is there any point to try to capture the creative process at all? Because it always feels fake or forced. Two that come to mind recently for me are
Starting point is 00:49:54 Tick, Tick, Boom. Did you see the movie adaptation? And he's swimming and the notes come together out of the tiles of the pool. And then my favorite, I only saw the pilot of Empire. And it was like a woman was singing a song, and then the head producer's like,
Starting point is 00:50:10 hold it, hold it. And then goes up, and it goes like, remember when the cops took your brother? Remember seeing his head go in? Roll it. And then she does it again, and it's brilliant. And it's like, it's so over the top, but I understand what they're trying to capture.
Starting point is 00:50:27 You know, it's like for me, the funny moment, it's I'm walking down the street and I go, oh, that could be something. And that's it.
Starting point is 00:50:33 That's not fun to watch. Right. And it's not even you going, oh, it's literally like you walking and in your head just going like, oh, okay. I pull out my phone.
Starting point is 00:50:40 Keep walking, keep walking. You know, like, yeah, I think trying to capture the actual the actual creative process is like bad like i've never seen it done well i don't want to like you can't really
Starting point is 00:50:52 capture that that's just and it's not something you either i did love black swan so much i thought that was great but that's that wasn't a creative process that's like a a distance that was like a physical thing. I mean, it's different. Someone coming up with a song and someone trying to perfect their pirouette. I don't know. It's a little different. I'd prefer that.
Starting point is 00:51:15 I would rather have a hard work montage, a Rocky style. If you're doing comedy, it's just spot, spot, spot, spot. Notes, notes, listening back listen back that's my version of as opposed to miss mazel you know like i'm dying up here like like yeah you're like something happens in your life and you go up and then have a new 10 minutes all of a sudden and you're like referencing that thing and you're like yeah i would love if i ever made if i ever get to show stand-up it's like it's like i have that moment and i go to riff and i just bomb for 10 minutes just 10 straight minutes and i show the whole 10 minutes
Starting point is 00:51:51 it's like that time remember remember that time you got punched in the face i got punched in the face and he's like i'm gonna talk about it i was gonna talk about stage and i said i got punched in the face today. Fucking crazy. And that was it. Fucking crazy, man. And the audience was like, are you okay? What happened?
Starting point is 00:52:13 It was, there was no jokes. Fucking crazy, man. I, I'm trying to, so, so you, you filmed, you produced. Is a full-length movie wow yeah
Starting point is 00:52:29 that's crazy yeah it was how long had you had like you wrote it i'm assuming wrote it how long have you did was that writing it and then like you know this process been the writing was like i want to say six months i mean i it was was like I wrote, first it was a TV show. I wrote like three episodes and they were half hours. And then I picked my favorite pieces and like wove it into a movie. So it was like probably about a year, but a lot of different versions and things. And then it took me like another year to like plan it and get producers on board. And then like six months in pre-production.
Starting point is 00:53:00 It was a long. How do you get that cast? That's a killer cast. Dylan Baker, who else? Eric Bogosian.ic bagosian um i mean you can just ask these people and if it's like i mean honestly i felt really good about the script so i would just send people the script and hope that they read it because if they people who read the scene like such a big ass to ask someone to read a script well there was one scene with the
Starting point is 00:53:20 dad which is what dylan blaker plays and i knew if you just read that scene maybe he'd want to i don't know i think he read it and was and decided he wanted to do it but sure i just reached out to people um yeah you just and a lot of people ignored us you know we yeah you just who did you actually want for those roles no actually those were those two were always dream dream cast so um and what And one of them was your dad? Dylan Baker played my dad, yeah. Dylan Baker played your dad? Yeah. Who's playing your parents?
Starting point is 00:53:51 Have you got anyone you want? And I know who my dad. For me, if I could get my dad, it's fucking Sean Penn at his craziest. It is 100% Sean Penn. Oh, interesting. I don't have someone for my dad. I don't know. At his craziest. It is 100% Sean Penn. Oh, interesting. A glad and sinker. I don't have someone for my dad. I don't know.
Starting point is 00:54:14 Because it's hard to imagine what way I'd be talking about my parents. You know what I mean? Like in what way? I'm trying to learn something about you. I would have Catherine O'Hara as my mom just because I love Catherine O'Hara. And I think she can do everything. What is she from? What is she from? It's just the names. I just don't know the names. It's not and I think she can do everything. What is she from? What is she from?
Starting point is 00:54:26 It's just the names. I just don't know the names. It's not that I don't know the person. Something your brain will understand. She's the mom from Home Alone. Oh, God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's your mom? Yeah, because she can be really funny, I think, and also play a lot of different kind of things.
Starting point is 00:54:39 And she's really sweet and can play kind of different things, I think. I don't know for my dad. I don't have someone in my head. My mom, it's like, I think Julia Louis-Dreyfus is the one that I'm like, I would lean towards. Because the tits.
Starting point is 00:54:56 Does Julia Louis-Dreyfus have big tits? No, no, that's what I was saying. Because my mom. Because you always talk about your mom. I don't always talk about mom's tits. I talked about her breast implants in the last episode we did. Last few episodes, probably.
Starting point is 00:55:07 But, okay. Are you going to feel comfortable when your dad sees that scene? Did you show a side of your dad? My dad was on set because we filmed a lot of it at my parents' house. So, I think he... I don't know if he saw that scene on the monitor. But it paints him in a good light i mean everyone's my family's painted in a positive quirky way they'll love it yeah yeah yeah my actual brother played my brother wow uh-huh so that'll mean he's just him so he saw
Starting point is 00:55:39 it did he go to julia too uh he went to julard pre-college. And then he went to a different school for college. Did he ever conduct you? Yeah. And is he a good conductor? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but we have a sibling thing. So sometimes he drives me crazy.
Starting point is 00:55:55 Just like, I'm like, why are you doing it that way? You know, like in a sibling kind of way. But no, he's very, very good. And our conductor, I think I always get skeptical of conductors, the whole, do people get skeptical of conductors? Skeptical, what do you mean? Skeptical of like, Do you need them?
Starting point is 00:56:12 A, if they are needed, do they deserve all the movies about them? No, no, you need, I mean, look, they're a conductorless orchestra, so clearly we don't need them. They can, a good one can really add something. You need them in like away show because they're literally the i've played in a lot of
Starting point is 00:56:29 pits they're like the connection between the upstairs and the downstairs right the singers but like for a symphony orchestra if they're really good they add a little extra something energy to it and if they're not good then they you don't need them. What pits have you played in? Lion King, Les Mis, Fiddler, Sunset Boulevard. Now, no offense to those shows. I've heard them so much in my life, I think I would go fucking crazy playing those songs again. Oh, and I did. Did you ever play like a long-term thing at those?
Starting point is 00:57:01 I was a sub in all of them. So I was running from show to show. I only had my own show. It was like a six-week run. It was a sub and all of them so i was running from show to show i only covered i only had my own show it was like a six-week run it was a show called rocktopia that was like a limited rock concert thing but it was like a broadway show uh and then i was in like two weeks of the miss saigon tour hello okay good sorry uh two weeks of the miss saigon on into on tour just covering for someone i never i mean i don't know if i would have gotten my own chair but i never was going for that because i knew i would go insane playing the same thing over and Saigon. On tour, just covering for someone. I never, I mean, I don't know if I would have gotten my own chair, but I never was going for that because I knew I would go insane playing the same thing over and over again.
Starting point is 00:57:29 Some people can do it, and that's great, but I can't. I lose my mind. Being in a show, like, I did the show before this for nine months, and then I'm now in this show, but I'm a standby. So it's people that do that for years i don't know i think it's it's a real i don't know if the skill might not be the right word because you're like endurance like you really have to be able it it feels like a certain kind of thing once you're in a show and it's the same thing every night and i i almost it sometimes feels like in some ways worse than like what i
Starting point is 00:58:06 would imagine nine to five is because you're like you're in this thing you're bonking it's the same time every night you look at the clock it's this part of the moment of the song i think i think man broadway is harder than going to war yeah i think it's harder than being a doctor i think you are doing the heart and standby is even harder. It is. Because you're not doing anything. Yeah. But you might have to at some point. Yeah. And that's a lot of stress.
Starting point is 00:58:30 Yeah. It was really exciting at first. And it's not not, but I'm thankful it's a limited run because I do think it's a hard job to be like, but you're like, it's a very specific thing that you're being asked to do to be ready to go on. And also you're doing all the kind of shitty stuff of theater and then not getting to perform. Were there ever any disasters in the pit? Anything go way wrong? I don't think so. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:58:58 I think one time someone was late and we started the show without one violinist. And they had to call someone else to like run in and fill the spot that was like stressful but sure i don't i might have blocked something out but i can't think of anything lion king i just i feel like i think i watched it 25 times when i was a kid oh yeah and some of those songs i don't know what there must be a german word for this kind of thing. There's something of like, because I know where the song's going, that it feels like torture.
Starting point is 00:59:29 And it's not even that I don't like the song. I don't think it's good. But like I'm bored by living through it. It's why I can't see the Nutcracker again. My dad made me see the Nutcracker every year as a kid. And I hear that music and it's, I don't mean to come as ingratitude, but I'm like,
Starting point is 00:59:45 I don't, I don't want to hear it again. It makes me uncomfortable. That's interesting though. Cause people generally like some, like stuff that's familiar to them. That's why they listen to the same songs. I do.
Starting point is 00:59:55 So there's some musicals I could do over, but there's something, there's some kind of musical catchiness that it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's next to boredom. And it's like kind of concentrated boredom of i know
Starting point is 01:00:05 everything that's gonna happen and i'm not on the ride yeah you've done a lot of private like weird like side gigs you you played once for someone's proposal is that true yeah yeah what any any strange gigs any i played well the proposal was funny proposal was funny because they had me go into this hotel room that was booked and just wait there for them to come in. Just you, not a quartet. Just me. Just me alone. And then this guy, the plan was he showed up with his girlfriend and a photographer
Starting point is 01:00:39 and he somehow got her there under some other false thing and then then proposed and she said yes and they had contracted me till eight but she said yes by like you know 7 40 but he was paying me so much that i didn't want to like stop playing before eight but i couldn't tell if they wanted me to like leave and we were both kind of like i was like i was like i can go and they're like play another you know like and it was uh-huh, clearly neither of us wanted me to be there. But we were too scared. And then finally, they're like, you can go. And then, like, the guy was like, do you want some cake?
Starting point is 01:01:11 And then the girl was like, you know, I was like, I'm just going to go. Oh, my God. Wait, did he propose in the hotel room while you were there? It was a balcony in the room. So we were on the balcony. Oh, OK. That's good. Because I was picturing, like, them going into a hotel room. You're just standing there with we were on the balcony. Oh, okay. That's good. Because I was picturing them going into a hotel room and you just standing there with
Starting point is 01:01:26 a violin. Just you. Yeah, no. He texted me before they got there so that I was already playing. Oh, okay. That helps. That's nice. Okay.
Starting point is 01:01:34 It was really nice. I was picturing you waiting in the bathroom and then him proposing out in the thing and then you coming out. You're starting to play. From the closet. Coming out. Starting to play. From the closet.
Starting point is 01:01:49 That's what Kanye West for Valentine's Day. He got Kenny G to like play the flute as Kim woke up. Oh, my God. As he woke up and Kenny G was in the living room with a thousand roses or something. Get out. That's my theory is people that are if they're too romantic that's because they're crazy something's crazy um yeah well that's nice yeah i also played once a string quartet for a private dinner so it was like two people and then just a string quartet and there was a hot tub outside and they were like getting in and out of the hot tub and like it was very like uh we should we
Starting point is 01:02:23 shouldn't be here yeah that is strange and it was like an old guy and a hot young woman oh god yeah where was in new york like upstate or something weird some mansion that is weird yeah yeah i would be the thing is like anytime you're imagining these scenarios i'm like i would be so uncomfortable in terms of like if we're just gonna talk and they're gonna play like like i know at, it's not like a wedding or something. Well, there's lots of things happen. If just two of us, I would be there just hearing us talk, you know? Yeah.
Starting point is 01:02:55 Yeah. I'd feel like I put down. Come join us. I'll put a Sonos on. We'll we'll just had no problem. They didn't offer us a damn thing. You imagine they're playing and you put it on without telling them and then they were just like oh turn it up he hates classical music uh played any weddings oh my god countless weddings can you play like
Starting point is 01:03:20 the fun like or is it all classical um i once got asked to play africa by toto on string quartet which how does that go because i always take the left take me away from you yes uh-huh um and like she wanted it for the processional and the recession it was like all africa um all straight but it was like a string quartet for just it it was like, it was like a beautiful Africa. Yeah. Um, so sometimes, but no,
Starting point is 01:03:50 usually it's like ceremony cocktail hour, not like the fun part, just like the classy part. Um, one just total Africa. One time I was doing a show and it was like, there was musicians and actors and one of the actor musicians, before each show, he would play his own music as his warm-up. And we would hear it on the monitors in the dressing room.
Starting point is 01:04:13 And he was playing and he was working on this new song. And he kept talking about this new song. And he was playing it and we were all downstairs. And it was Toto's Africa. And he had no idea. It had different lyrics. He was like... And it was like he would and we were like
Starting point is 01:04:28 everyone was kind of humming and then I started singing and then everyone was like oh my god they're like we have to tell him and I was like we can't tell him he worked so hard on this song he doesn't know it's that song but like we I can't tell him because he was so proud of it he kept talking about his new song and then he would and then
Starting point is 01:04:43 what does he find out? He uploads it to YouTube and he gets sued? And he's like, what? It had different lyrics, but it was definitely the same melody. Oh, that happens a lot. No one told him? No.
Starting point is 01:04:52 Someone told me the other day. I had a new joke and they said, that was in Shane Gill's special. And I said, damn, thank you. I've gotten better. First time someone told me that,
Starting point is 01:05:00 I was very mad. And it wasn't their fault. Yeah. People just come up with the same bit all the time. Oh, no, I copied it. I wrote it down and I said, I want to do this bit. What bit was it? It was something, it was like, people say this country's never been more divided.
Starting point is 01:05:16 We had a civil war. It was something about that. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then the one that really hurt, I had one for a while that said, I've been dating my girlfriend for a little over a year, so we're almost done. And it was like Louis once did way back uh we've been married for 10 years so we're almost done or something and it's just like yeah fuck yeah and it was and it was open it was working as an opener when someone takes your will at the first opening line nothing worse but it's
Starting point is 01:05:39 good when you find out just to you know also you're like hey i had the same thought as this comedian i respect that That's cool. I don't know if you respect Shane and Louie, but... Just morally and ethically. Physically, mentally, financially. Let's go to our next segment. This has gotta stop.
Starting point is 01:05:57 This has gotta stop. So loud. Sorry. This has gotta stop. Better? Better, yeah. Okay, good. This has got to stop. Better? Better, yeah. Okay, good. This has got to stop. This is where we say, for all the new listeners that came in, Eric Bogosian, thanks for tuning in.
Starting point is 01:06:16 Hope to have you on soon. Legend. Theater legend. I would even need to look it back up just to see, because he did these crazy one man monologue shows back in the day, everyone was doing his monologues this is where we talk about something that's got to stop, something that needs to go away
Starting point is 01:06:32 I wrote down a bunch of this pad that I can no longer find Russell, do you have a this has got to stop? No, someone else go first, I'm looking at mine Isabel, do you have a this has got to stop? Limited series Okay, tell me more I'm sick of this drawn out six part film it should have been a film i don't need six hours of this learn to edit make it 90 minutes yeah no more limited series prestige
Starting point is 01:06:54 tell of it just make a fucking movie what it's sometimes similar to the documentaries like the the like true crime things where it's like eight things and you're like i think this was maybe a two hour one thing at most at most because you're like i definitely you get into it and you're like wait a minute and then you get to the end of it you're like you didn't even solve this yeah and like why am i not googling it before i start it because that's the other thing if we start where if we end and finish and there's no answers, you've just thrown out some hypotheses of what happened in this crime. That's got to stop for me. Solve it. Figure it out. Film
Starting point is 01:07:32 people. If the authorities haven't... This documentary especially because I'm pushing myself to see a documentary sometimes. But four episodes, that's a huge commitment. I was watching the documentary about what's his name? Beckham and Pot Spice about what's his name Beckham and
Starting point is 01:07:46 Pot Spice what's his name David Beckham and Victoria David Beckham and Victoria and they kept there was way too much stuff about soccer
Starting point is 01:08:02 I was like enough I just care about their relationship and the Spice Girls. I just want a Spice Girls documentary. There will be, I'm sure. That's one I'd watch parts of. I'm fascinated. Because I only know it from the vantage point of a little kid.
Starting point is 01:08:18 Same. I was obsessed. I got the lollipops and I would collect all the stickers and I had the Barbies. And you're always fascinated because when watching the documentary, Sport spice speaks and i'm like okay so they're still friends right and then i'm like well ginger's not there so ginger's probably not
Starting point is 01:08:32 friends anymore why did she leave what kind of money was on the table uh okay if i could have any band where i like i want to know what happened I want to know in Spice Girls are in sync like I want to know the real version the version where they go Justin Timberlake sucks that's the one I want to or maybe they love him
Starting point is 01:08:54 but like or Destiny's Child and they're honest about Beyonce it's hard to be you can't no one's honest anymore
Starting point is 01:09:03 you can't because it's like because it there's a financial element to all the examples that you said. Because their whole Beyonce brings them on one show and gets a bajillion more dollars. Yeah. Okay, my this has got to stop is... What the fuck?
Starting point is 01:09:18 Let me... Oh, no. That was the... It's got to stop, for me, the goddamn tree in Rockefeller Center. I've never seen New York as crowded as it is. And I don't usually have to work in Times Square. But it's been a fucking nightmare getting through anywhere there because of this tree. It's packed to the gill.
Starting point is 01:09:39 I've never seen anything like it. It's not even that good of a tree. No. It's always underwhelming. Well, it's from my hometown. Well, even worse. Don't talk shit even that good of a tree. No. It's always underwhelming. Well, it's from my hometown. Well, even worse. Don't talk shit about their trees. That tree.
Starting point is 01:09:49 Like, there's just lights. There's no, like, ornaments. It's just like a tree. There's no ornaments. Also, the saddest thing ever is that the theater I am in is right next to Fox News, and you'll see people taking their picture at that Fox News tree, which is even sadder. And it's just because it's too crowded to even probably get to the thing so there there's people out there settling for pictures with the fox news tree which is just a shitty regular tree you know
Starting point is 01:10:14 you could get in anyone's hometown is a tree that big the only thing i like about fox being there is i'm like yeah they live in new york yeah yeah. The people talking shit about New York all the time. They're all here. They fucking live here. If they liked you, Montana, they'd fucking be there. Well, they might live in New Jersey or Connecticut, the people that work there. Sure, but they choose to work in, quote, unquote, the worst city in the world. Fuck you, cunts.
Starting point is 01:10:39 Okay, your wife sent some. Russell's wife was on a census, got a stops. Yeah. And they're always describing, like, me to a some. Russell's wife was the one that sent this, it's got to stop. Yeah. And they're always describing me to a T. Are they? They're always like, she said this has got to start. Which, can you please just tell her how the segment works? Courtesy campaigns on the subway.
Starting point is 01:10:58 You aren't supposed to wear your backpack or keep your purse on your shoulder on a rush hour train, you idiots. True. It's you. True. No, I put it down True. That's you. True. No, I put it down now. I've learned. I've matured. This is the one.
Starting point is 01:11:10 Pole leaning is back, and people don't react to my knuckles in their back. Oh, that makes me so mad. Like, are they starved for human touch? Oh, no, that is weird. When you lean on someone like that, also it's weird. If it's crowded. If it's not crowded, is it okay? If no one's on the pole.
Starting point is 01:11:28 If no one's on the pole, okay. Yeah. But, okay, that's a very different thing than a psychopath leaning on a pole where everyone's doing it. Yeah. The other thing is when you're in that seat and people are in the doorway and they lean and you're like, you're so clearly leaning on my head and i can't move it anymore than you know that thing and the other thing is people that have to sit i'm not talking like like they have an ailment or they're really old
Starting point is 01:11:59 or they're whatever i'm talking like you see people get on and they're just like little gremlins who they have to sit, and they will squeeze themselves anywhere. Do you know these people? Yeah. You are one of them. No. No, I get what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Starting point is 01:12:12 Well, you're skinny, so you can do that. Sure, but once I made the mistake of like a tight train, and it was a clear seat. I mean, there was a seat that was open, technically. Yeah, and you squeezed your way in there. I squeezed, and it was like 1 a.m. after LOL, and this woman, she was going to hit me,
Starting point is 01:12:29 and it was scary. And it was your wife. My this has got to stop. Listen, sometimes it's tough. People say things to performers, and they don't mean ill. We talked about it last week where they say, oh, someone's making a bit.
Starting point is 01:12:52 Another one, I can't stand. Don't forget me when you're famous. Oh, God, yeah. You know what I want to say? People who say that to me, I say, I don't even know your name now. Yeah. How dare you? It's more just like, yeah,
Starting point is 01:13:09 then say something cool that'll make me remember you. Then entertain me, Jester. Yeah. Yeah. Don't, hey,
Starting point is 01:13:17 I don't even know what you spot. I won't. I want to be like, no one gets famous anymore. Yeah. It's not even a thing. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:13:25 Or it's like, yeah, I won't forgive you. Sorry, that's a different thing. Oh, no, no one gets famous anymore. Yeah. It's not even a thing. Yeah. Or it's like, yeah, I won't forgive you. Sorry, that's a different thing. Oh, no, no, no, no. I'll tell my security guard, you see this person? Keep them out. Because they speak to me in stupid cliches that are not fun to engage with. Yeah. Who said that to you?
Starting point is 01:13:40 Like, was it someone you know, know? It was like a comedian, but like a sort of comedian. Not even in the New York scene. Just out. Maybe it bothers you because you're like, bitch, I'm already famous. Oh, maybe that's why it bothers you. There's a degree. There's a degree.
Starting point is 01:13:58 Yeah. Final segment. You better count your blessing you better count your blessing we say one thing that we're thankful for after a nice negative show russell do you have thankful for my friend uh jordan he came to visit this weekend to see umberg. And it was very nice. He just had a baby. Well, his wife had a baby.
Starting point is 01:14:27 And they both came. And it was their first trip after the baby. And it was very nice. Because sometimes people have kids and it's hard and things. So I appreciate the effort. Who was the producer that night? Good question. Oh. She was on vampire diaries
Starting point is 01:14:49 nina dobrev don't you know that name great gundberg killing it with the celebs uh my do you have a blessing uh yeah i'll go first uh i just remembered it's better when the guest ends. I, you know, we released this episode with Jesse David Fox, where, again, it wasn't the most combative episode, but I spoke my mind about comedy criticism and my thoughts on it. And it's very nice to have some young comedians who go like, I listened to that episode and thank you for like, they, they,
Starting point is 01:15:28 they just felt like I articulated something that they thought would be cool for someone to say to a comedy critic. And it feels nice. I, I feel, I went to like New York comedy club party, the Christmas party. And I'm like,
Starting point is 01:15:40 I was like, Oh, I'm a older comedian who like, you know, I'm just a different level of age and things. And to have like a younger comic up and come and be like, I dug it. It still feels cool. Oh, yeah. I'll get to Seinfeld's level hopefully someday where I'm like, don't talk to me. Seinfeld goes, I love talking to comedians.
Starting point is 01:16:01 And they go, hi, Mr. Seinfeld. He goes, get the fuck away from me. I should have said I love talking to otherians and they go hi mr seinfeld he goes get the fuck away from me i should have said i love talking to other rich comedians um i gotta stop uh though i do want to say jason zinneman he told me i didn't have to correct it but uh he did include earthquake in his best of end of your list but to be fair i didn't even bring up the specific list you were the one who named it that's on you uh do you i did i didn't did bring up the specific list. You were the one who named it. That's on you. Do you have a blessing? I didn't.
Starting point is 01:16:27 What happened? I made a critique, like a best end of year list. Why didn't it include earthquake special? Like a really just fucking funny special. And in my mind, I was thinking of a New York Times list that Jason Zinneman did. I wasn't bringing it up. And then we're talking about the New York Times list that Jason Zinneman did. I wasn't bringing it up. And then we're also talking about the New York Times list. And then Jason told me
Starting point is 01:16:48 pretty bluntly, he did, in fact, include Earthquake in that list. So I was talking about other lists. Well, I think we were thinking of the bad specials that he included on the list. In our defense. But we didn't name those ones. We did not name those ones, and we will not. No, no, we will not.
Starting point is 01:17:09 Join the Patreon for that. Joe, we do talk a little more shit on the Patreons. Join it. Isabel, do you have a blessing? Yes, this has become very apparent to me. I'm really grateful that I have a clear vision of what I want in my life. Because I've had a lot of people ask me advice recently.
Starting point is 01:17:29 And I'm like, what do you want to do? And they have no fucking idea. And I'm like, how grateful am I that I know what I want to do? It's like so many people just don't. And it's so hard. So that's what I'm grateful for. That's amazing. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:17:45 What do you want to do? I don't fucking know. No. I just want to keep doing exactly what I'm doing right now. Doing stand-up, making art, and just doing that. Yeah. That's it. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:17:58 I'm like, I don't have a bucket list. I'm living it. Yeah. I'm trying to get back there. You will. I've been in that place before Yeah And then I leave it
Starting point is 01:18:07 Okay And then I That means you're a good artist I hope so Yeah This coming out on the 26th Merry Christmas Debbie Downsiders
Starting point is 01:18:19 Isabel, what would you like to plug? Just follow me on Instagram At IsabelHagen underscore. Good. That's it. Russell, what do you want to plug? Yeah, follow me on Instagram at RussellJDaniels. You know, final month, coming into final month of Gutenberg on Broadway. What do you think?
Starting point is 01:18:40 You going to get one more show? I would love one more show, but, you know, who knows? It's just the world. But – You ever go out for a drink with Josh and say – You ever go out for a drink for Josh, period? They're not – No, they're not.
Starting point is 01:18:55 They don't – Them doing eight shows a week, it's like they're living like a hermit lifestyle. That's how you get in the show. If it's not like a – You take Josh out for a fucking dinner. You say, Josh, I got some cocaine. Yeah, yeah. Let's go party.
Starting point is 01:19:08 Cocaine? Give you one matinee. Give him one matinee, Josh. Okay, I'm not participating in this conversation. All right, Russell's not a part of it. This is me, Jamarco, telling you, Josh. No. Okay, for me, guys, I'm headlining Philly Punchline, December 28th, 29th, 30th.
Starting point is 01:19:24 Please come out. It is a big room. I will be at the Comedy Cellar New Year's Eve. I will be on the stage ringing in the new year. I've done it before. It's an honor mixed with you see everyone with their loved ones. It's a real metaphor moment because I remember I did it on stage at Governor's. And I'm looking out.
Starting point is 01:19:48 Everyone's with their loved ones and their families. And here I am. I got everything I wanted. I'm center stage. The light's on me. I have the talking stick. And I am alone. And I am alone.
Starting point is 01:20:02 Watching people with their loved ones celebrating. I think you're better off than the loved ones choosing to go to a comedy club. Hey, shut the fuck up. No, no, no. Shut the fuck up. You shut the fuck up. No, no, no. I love comedy, and I love comedy clubs.
Starting point is 01:20:14 And I'll be in Sidesplitters, Tampa, Florida, January 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th. That's good. Give me eight shows. And otherwise, hope you enjoyed it. Join the Patreon, patreon. That's good. Give me 8 shows. And otherwise, hope you enjoyed it. Join the Patreon. Patreon.com slash downside. And what's the best piece of music
Starting point is 01:20:34 that you want to be played at your funeral? The slow movement of the Debussy String Quartet. This is The Downside. One, two, three. Downside. You're listening to The Downside. The Downside.
Starting point is 01:20:55 With Gianmarco Cerezi.

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