The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #183 Oops All Third Rails with Kristin Chirico

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Writer and comedian Kristin Chirico joins us to share the downsides of working at Buzzfeed during its rise and fall, Paul Rudd discovering your Slack messages about him, surviving a massive layoff, and we finally reach a conclusion on Elizabeth Warren’s Native American ancestry (topical!!!).  Russell and Gianmarco also discuss why *NSYNC should sing gay love songs, how Justin Timberlake can earn forgiveness, and they finally get to the bottom of where Mount Rushmore is located. You can watch full video of this episode HERE! Join the Patreon for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and MORE. Follow Kristin on YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, & TikTok See Kristin live in LA! Go to https://www.instagram.com/itskristinchirico/ for upcoming shows Follow The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi on Instagram Get tickets to our live podcast recording in NYC on March 4 here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/744000544657?aff=oddtdtcreator OR come to our first live podcast recording in LA on March 14! https://www.ticketweb.com/event/the-downside-with-gianmarco-soresi-hollywood-improv-the-lab-tickets/13295123 Follow Gianmarco Soresi on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, & YouTube Subscribe to Gianmarco Soresi's email & texting lists Check out Gianmarco Soresi's bi-monthly show in NYC Get tickets to see Gianmarco Soresi in a city near you Watch Gianmarco Soresi's special "Shelf Life" on Amazon Follow Russell Daniels on Twitter & Instagram E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Paige Asachika & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Dave Columbo Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by A Real Pain. From Searchlight Pictures comes one of the buzziest films at Sundance Film Festival, A Real Pain. Written, directed, and starring Oscar nominee Jesse Eisenberg alongside Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin. Witness a hilarious and moving story about two mismatched cousins as they tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history see a real pain only in theaters november 15th ladies and gentlemen welcome to the downside uh my co-host is here's how i listen i don't really know what my co-host does for work here's how we need we need more patreon supporters because i am on business call right now i'm on a business call i'm on a business call

i'm doing work while i'm on a podcast if you're ever on a zoom and someone's video isn't on you should assume they are recording a podcast simultaneously so russell has opened in front of him in front of frankly of a famous guest a great guest yeah i. It's a great guest. A great guest. And your laptop is open with 20 people. Only for 18 more minutes. And then we're done. And why? What's the point? I am hosting a meeting.

I had to do an update at the very beginning of it. And then I was done. But I'm still hosting the meeting. I'm still the thing. So I can't close my laptop and lock it out. I am wildly paranoid that they're hearing all of this and that i would hope that's why i like seeing it because like i would be the most listeners we've ever had for the they would be like waving being like we can hear you we can hear you

you know so you're worried though you have to stop it right on time or else they're going to go oh we all left and russell's still here i don't know what i guess i could put it down on the ground but there's something's a deep fear of it going off mute or something somehow automatically. She's going to keep it here for the next 18 minutes. Just 18 more minutes. What I think is funny, you think that it won't affect your performance.

You're like, I can multitask. Meanwhile, I'm going to be talking and you'll be like, uh-huh. It's muted. Okay, good. I'm fully, fully here. I'm present I'm checked in locked in I've

hear attention hear attention hear attention well good 20 people well well thank you

for being here to our guest thank you for dealing with this please welcome do you like the word content creator or do you hate it it's fine it's fine it's fine yeah some people do you like the word content creator or do you hate it it's fine

we all it's fine it's fine yeah some people don't like the cut they like don't like the word content it's like it's just not the only thing i do of course yeah what's what's your number one do you like to lead with my number one problem is i mean the thing i make money with is i'm a youtuber but it's not the thing i like the most yeah yeah i once once had a billboard outside of a club and it had my face, my name, and it said, like my credits, Facebook,

YouTube, TikTok. And I was like, I have the same credits as everyone in the audience. That's, and they bought tickets to see me?

That's absurd. Yeah. So, YouTuber. I would say, I'm a YouTuber, I'm a writer, I'm a comedian.

Yeah. Kristen Cherico, everybody. Welcome to the downside. Thank you. Thank you. It's funny that YouTuber, writer sounds so much better than YouTuber. Yeah. There's a connotation, you know?

Because you're a YouTuber too. You have a YouTube account? Don't call me. What's wrong with being a YouTuber? There's nothing wrong with it. I'm just saying people hear it and there is a weird thing with it. I know. what there's nothing wrong with it i'm just saying people here and and there is a weird thing with it and there is nothing wrong with it and people make a lot of money on youtube so it's just a funny thing of in our heads that there's like a we we we've got to

figure out how we can take it more seriously you know we gotta figure this out yeah number one starts with you and me guys agenda figuring out how to make YouTubers get respect. It's just a wide umbrella. Yeah. I mean, and the problem is, how do you say, you should say successful YouTuber. Yes. You know what I mean?

Because that's the differentiation. That silver thing behind you, you probably sleep on those, that silver YouTube 100,000 subscribers. You probably have gold-plated ones. No, I don't have a gold-plated one because you don't get a gold one until you get a million, and I've never done that as an individual i thought there was

a i thought there was a half million there is not a half million and i hit a half million i said where's my fucking plan i gotta hit a million you gotta make your own for that one no they don't give you one yeah it's hard being a youtuber because it is a big umbrella because you could either be like someone who makes things that help people or you could be a white supremacist. It's a really broad brush to paint with. That is true. Well, very happy to have you. You're visiting New York.

Before we get to you, I have something I want to talk about. I had a thing happen. Situation. We can discuss how I should have handled it because it was a first time for me. I was in Philly. I headlined the weekend, Ph was a first time for me. I was in Philly. I headlined the weekend, Philly Punchline, good shows. And

when I got on my Uber, so I'm leaving the hotel, I get on my Uber, and before they leave, someone opens the other door, the passenger seat, and just gets in and says, please, please take me to the train station. please take me to the train station please take me to the

train and yeah and like not the same train station or they said take me to the bus stop and i was going to the train station and the driver i'm not sure if i got fleeced which is where we'll go we're so i'm there and i don't know what's going on this is a person who seems that they're struggling i don't know if they're unhoused or not uh but but i don't know what's going on. This is a person who seems that they're struggling. I don't know if they're unhoused or not. But I don't know what to do. And the driver looks to me and goes, do you want to cancel the drive? And I was like, no, I got to make it to the train.

But the driver acts like I know this person. And I'm like, no, no, don't cancel. I don't know who this person person is and she won't leave and he's kind of asking her but he's saying do you want to cancel it's like no i don't want i don't want to cancel i have to i have to go and i ultimately uh gave her ten dollars and then she said thanks and then she went into the hotel and that's where i'm suspicious where and and i'm like the the drivers seem to be acting unusual he kept saying do you want to cancel do you want to cancel i'll cancel it and i was like no and i'm just wondering if they were working in tandem because because and it's worth

this wait if she got the 10 bucks and then like tried to get a cab or started walking away i'd be like okay she need to go to the bus station so your theory got that 10 bucks and then like tried to get a cab or started walking away i'd be like okay she needed to go to the bus station so your theory got that 10 bucks and she like like turned on a dime like everything's fine and then she went to the hotel but your theory is though but like what if you had said fine and taken her to the bus stop is it that much further away that he gets money in uber like that much more money how could i ask the i can't ask the uber driver can you take to the bus stop? Yeah, you can put two stops in Uber. Sure, I just had to make the train.

You're saying add a second stop? Add a second stop for her to go to this bus stop. Sure, it happened very fast. This doesn't seem like a conspiracy. Do you get $10 out of you? It feels like a lot of work. It feels like a lot of work. It worked.

It worked. No, but I don't know if it feels like a real, I yeah no but i don't know if it it feels like a real i don't think that many people would give her ten dollars and i think that what would you have done i don't know you're right it's a it's a very specific situation i don't know i think i probably would add a second stop i just would have been like take me to the thing first and i'll add a second stop let me ask this how much let's say that second stop was $20 more. I think I would just do it. It's $20.

$50 more. Stop saying that. It wouldn't be that much more. I'm trying to figure out where your morality caps out. It wouldn't be that much more. It's got to be a resort. You're not going to the airport. Let me just say, I think that is a good solution. I think in the moment, I was confused.

The driver kept telling me, do you want to cancel? I was like, if you cancel, I think I'm going to miss my train. Do you think you're an easy mark? Like, do you think people scam you a lot? Okay. I definitely, I have, I have this, I have some sympathy. Two times I've been like, uh, three times I've been marked for sure. One, when I was a kid, it was like outside of a broadway theater

i was in new york maybe for a summer camp or something and someone was like raising money for a basketball team and they said and i had i had a hundred dollar bill my dad like would give me a hundred dollars and i said oh could i have 95 back or something i never saw oh my god so i like lost 100 bucks i just gave it to him and he was like yeah i'll be right with you and then i had that feeling of like oh i'm not getting this back yeah same thing happened to me at a uh when i was in hamburg we've talked about this on the show i was too worried to i was too nervous to go to a sex worker i went to these people who were going to give me a lesbian show and then proceeded to they i walked in they said okay so there's the little lesbian show the medium lesbian show, the medium

lesbian show, and the big lesbian, and they kept getting more and more money out of me, and I saw one nipple. I was definitely a mark for that. And then once in New York, someone came up and they said, can I have directions? I gave them directions, and then they started crying, and they said, can I have money? And I gave them 20, and I think I was a mark. It's hard to tell in New York. I've done it in New York.

I've done it in new york it happens a lot and you can think you're gonna be not get tricked and and then ultimately someone gets you and your your defenses are down you're like okay well sure you know like like the the the classic one is like when you're checking out at like a food place and then they they're all of a sudden there and that's a hard one to say no to because they know you're gonna buy food and so you're like ultimately i usually just say yeah sure i'll get you something um but um the i did get scammed in new york when i first moved to new york about an apartment i signed up for some very skeevy service that said they would find me an

apartment and all i had to do was pay $100 and sign some paperwork and they were going to assist. So here's where the red flag should have happened. I went to do this in person and I buzzed in. It was in Times Square. And I buzzed into a really seedy stairwell, went up to the room.

There was multiple buzzers, multiple doors that had to be able to buzz into to get into it. So it was like they were, like, trying to hide in there and keep people out. The guy had a baseball bat. Oh, my God. He answered the door with a baseball bat. He loves sports.

Oh, you were on your own security, too. I was new to New york and i was like maybe this is just how people answer the door here i don't know i don't know new yorker i don't know how dangerous or safe it is yet i don't know i'm figuring it out so he answered the door of a baseball bat he there was an intensity to this man i signed really i signed i don't know what's. Gave him $100. And then what that got me was basically once a week for three weeks, they would send me listings from Craigslist to do my own work.

It was not like any sort of thing. It was like, here's some listings. And it got me nothing. And then you were like, there's no way you can go and get your money back that guy's gonna hit you yeah so that i don't know what that service was but i got scammed for sure okay my wife almost signed a lease on an apartment in la uh that turned the it was a room and the room turned out to be the landing of a staircase oh no they put curtains around oh my god it was 500 a month well whose staircase though like we're like she she just they were just like yeah like it's a great room great location silver lake silver lake apartment room and like she went to see it and they were just like yeah like we

make it work you know it's like we just kind of we have like a knocking system before people come up the staircase oh my god system how big of a landing no like this like this couch plus another couch like these two couches push together maybe yeah maybe like nonsense like fire problem knocking there's not even a door to knock yeah it's got to be like a padding onto the system um so at least she saw it and said oh no yeah I mean she saw it and she's like I don't think this is the place for me you know it was she was young but she wasn't like that young

when I was early on struggling I mean there's no no worse feeling than not having a place to stay it's a very awful feeling there was one time I looked and it was like you can stay in the closet and it's only $ awful feeling there was one time I looked and it was like you can stay in the closet and it's only $200

a month? a big closet, yeah $200 a month that's pretty good that's the thing could you lay flat in the closet? yes, I could lay flat in the closet are we blowing up? what's happening?

what do you think? someone's doing construction outside. You think, listen, when you blow up, you're gone. There's no moment of like, oh, is a blow up coming soon? Let me escape it. I don't know. Maybe the anode is blowing up and we're slowly feeling it. I don't know.

Anyways, go ahead. So you didn't do it. No, but it's less even the size. I mean, there was a time in my life I would put up with size, small. It's more about you have to go through a bedroom to go to, you don't want to do that. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's ridiculous.

That was those. Well, that's like I had an apartment in Astoria that was a good one, but it was a railroad. And so there were two ways. So the second bedroom could go out into the hallway to then go to the living room and kitchen like the shared hallway like the apartment building hallway but if if i wasn't home or the thing they could just go through my room because it's a railroad but it's not ideal because i also like sometimes you i wouldn't be home i was dating nicole at the time so i'd go for a few days and come back and they didn't know if i was there. You know what I mean? So not a great situation to build an apartment that way. They were walking on you?

Yeah, one time. And when I say you, solo? Nicole. No. With Nicole? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really? Yeah, one time.

They just opened it up? Well, and I hadn't been home for days, so they just assumed and they just came in. And you were? No, they didn't see anything. There was covers involved. Is there usually a lot of covers? A lot of just 10 covers wrapped around. in you were no no they didn't see anything it was there was covers involved but but is there usually a lot of cover a lot of just 10 covers wrapped around that's funny like like you know

someone who's been in new york for so long every time they make love they have to do it under every cover so many covers it's just someone might walk in it's like we've moved to south dakota now it's fine any moment yeah so oh god are you an easy mark otherwise am i an easy mark yeah for like people ask for money like do you i don't know if i'm a mark like it's not like i it's not like when someone asks me for money i'm like oh yeah i'm really all in on the story you're telling me it's like if someone asks me for money they need money sure and i'm just gonna give like you know within reason i'm probably gonna give them the money i don't disagree until you live in new york and you walk home from when i walk home from the comedy salon in the summer there's 10 people who need money and it becomes a like that's all i made

tonight at the cell i gotta tell you a really really sad thing happened the other day where i said because usually what i do i never have cash but i do have cash right now but i never have cash and i usually always say i don't have i don't have cash i mean it's not a lie it's just like i don't carry cash but the other day i said my lie or my normal line and i did have cash because i have cash and he i was had my phone i was on my phone and i said i'm so sorry i don't have cash he saw it and he goes i see cash right there and i said i looked at him and i said it's a 50 and he understood that that was too much that that that i that giving 50 it would be it would be that's a big give it would be it would be, that's a big give. It would be,

it would be really nice is the word you're looking for. It'd be really active generosity is the word you're looking for. It would, but also the, I, I both loved

and was mad that he called me on it. I like, I loved that he was like, I see it right there. And I was like, fair enough. And then I,

I was like, I'm gonna be honest with him too. And I'm like, it's a 50. And he was like, oh, it's a 50. He got, he got that. It was, that's a lot. Cause it also 10 or under. Yeah. I'm going to like, I'm going to be honest with him too. And I'm like, it's a 50. And he was like, oh, it's a 50? He got that it was less a lot.

Because also, 10 or under, yeah, I'm going to give that away. Sure, sure. But also, I think it is hard now that I don't carry cash that when I have cash, I feel like I never have cash. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't carry cash. Yeah. I'm just going to lose it.

I'm going to drop it in the street. Yeah. And then it's someone else's good day. I get cash just because they pay me in cash. Paying 50 with a card feels less of a thing than giving a $50 bill away. Yeah. That makes sense. Sure.

I think more and more people have Venmo these days, or Cash App. Yes. Or, like, they're getting rid of that excuse. Yeah. Well, I give money for music. If there's a musical, if I watch more than 16 if I watch like more than 16 measures of a song, I'm like, okay,

here's a dollar. In LA, I know there's homeless people in LA, but like, are they asking for money as often as New York? I feel like it's different culture. So I live, I live about a block and a half away from Skid Row.

So. And we used to Skid Row, because I know Little shop of horrors that was a musical idea but like oh i know yes but is that is that the skid row they're referring to or skid row a term that means skid row next to downtown la cedro is in downtown la it's a part it's a part of it's on the street sign that says skid row no that's a long no like if you look on google maps it will say skid row and like you know obviously if there's signage around you you you know it's skid row like it's it's clear um i here's

the thing i think because i look like and identify mostly as female people don't really come up to me that much i think i that's my guess but like i don't really it's not really an issue like sure for me personally so like if somebody kind of like works up the courage to actually ask me for something if I have something I'm just gonna give it to you yeah sure sure we live in a terrible world and like definitely so I could use 20 bucks this is the downside. One, two, three. Downside. Downside. You're listening to The Downside. The Downside.

With John Marco Cerezi. There's one guy that is my neighborhood, and he always sits outside the liquor store. So occasionally I'll buy him food, and he's so funny because he's so mean about it. He's not nice. He's a real character. And he'll be like, I don't him food. And he's so funny because he's so mean about it. He's not nice. He's a real character. And he'll be like, I don't like that.

And you'll be like, well, I'm like. And then you'll ask him, what do you want? And sometimes they don't have. It's very specific. I don't do it every time. But he's always there. So it's like. But it's just so funny how kind of rude he is about things.

He's very blunt. How has he been rude to you? He he'd been rude to me and to nickel like it's just like just like in the way of like um he'll be very honest if he doesn't like what you've gotten him and you'll ask like trying to like do a good job to get him things that he likes and then he'll be like i can't eat that i don't like that you know like that kind of thing and you're like okay man well we're like what are you offering that he's i don't know uh i don't know maybe you should learn more about what he wants i know maybe you should take some time take him take him i'll say you know what are your allergies true yeah what's your favorite flavor yeah um this is the downside this is a place where we bring people

on to find out how generous they are to unhoused people. We talk, we get negative here. We're honest about ourselves. We don't look for silver linings. We look for shitty, shitty corners. And I've been working on this intro for 200 episodes, and this is what I got. If you're a fan of the show, join the Patreon, patreon.com slash downside.

We got bonus episodes. We got a live episode coming out soon with Emily Wilson that was so good. Bonus everything. It's fantastic. Patreon.com. Thank you for coming. You're welcome. This is our first time meeting. Yes.

Jesus. We actually dated three years ago. We know each other from the internet. You have a fascinating life because you didn't you didn't get into entertainment until much later in your life uh i guess i mean i didn't even think of it that way but yeah i mean my 20s i didn't i don't think i really i didn't really start getting famous on buzzfeedeed until like my early 30s. I want to say 32, 33. Well, I want to say I'm 35. You're 54.

We – BuzzFeed was less a part of my life. Like speaking of YouTubers, my opener is 24. And like he like has YouTube stars. And YouTube was just – we talked about this on the Emily Wilson podcast. We didn't have like – we just went to youtube for specific things yeah people that was their tv channels yeah i was still watching tv and and all that stuff so i know buzzfeed like from the side i watched the listicles i did the quizzes but you were when did buzzfeed start do you know i want to say 2006 2006 2008 one of those two i don't really remember it didn't i i i joined i joined the club i joined in 2013 late 2013 is

when i got hired um and like it is weird because like buzzfeed is a thing i never experienced buzzfeed outside of being at BuzzFeed because I was there before it was a huge, massive thing, and then I left right after it stopped being that. So I experienced that entire phenomenon from the inside. Yeah. And I tell people all the time, I have a job that did not exist when I was in grad school.

Sure. So we're kind of just making it up as we go along yeah i mean my buzzfeed was like cracked.com yeah uh ebombs world that was a big one do you know ebombs world oh yeah that was at our that was our generation you were an ebombs world guy no really i mean i've heard of it i never i didn't really use it though what was your website for like i don't know videos i don't know i didn't i don't feel like i had like that was a thing in my like i didn't really do that where did you see mr hands mr hands which one's that no but that was an e-bombs world thing it was okay like housed like can i say like like stories it was like comedy and like weird anime

jokes and video game jokes and then like kind of snuffed types. I think that I was never the one that was like, I was usually a friend showing me those things. I wasn't like regularly seeking that out. When were you in college? 2005 to 2008. Okay. So I think you went to college a little late for E-Bomb's World. Because I think E-Bomb's World was really popular when I was in college.

Which is like right before that. Yeah. So it's possible, like, because YouTube was, I think YouTube started in 2005, 2006. Yeah. I mean, I remember YouTube in college. Yeah. Sure. But it was like, oh, look, someone sent you a specific video or, you know.

Yeah. I wasn't surfing YouTube. you send someone send you a specific video or you know yeah i wasn't surfing youtube did you know that google images blew up after the janet jackson justin like super bowl nipple gate i hate everything but but like it's because everyone was like wait where and it was like whoa we needed a website for this so some guys and some vests were like, I want to make that easier for all the weirdos. What year was that? Oh, boy. 2004. All I remember is I was at my dad's girlfriend's house, and I called my mom after, because we talk about nipples a lot.

And I called her because I'd seen it. It was so quick. And I just remember I was like, did I just see that? Like, there was a feeling of, did I just see what I think I saw? And I called my mom, and I was like, did you see that like there was a feeling of did i just see what i think i saw and i called my mom and i was like you see it's like yeah i think i saw can i tell you a joke i made it i was at a party of adults watching the superbowl a joke i made that killed absolutely killed at this party was uh i must have been a senior in high school um this one of my parents friends kept talking about how there's a special guest other than justin timberlake and janet jackson he kept being like i think there's no another special guest and uh after that happened at the end i go well i guess we know who the

special guest was everyone everyone biggest biggest laugh i've ever gotten in my life did you do you do it at that big a character? Well, I guess I know what I was talking about. I was really prepared to not like that joke.

I was mentally preparing to be mad. I actually had a microphone. I like pulled it out from the sofa and this was like. Yeah, it's always,

it was, it was, poor Janet. Poor Janet, yeah. Poor Janet. Yeah, no,

I mean, Justin Timberlake sucks. Like, he did her dirty he's pretty i think it's he's it's a done deal everyone's kind of over him isn't aren't they he doesn't really sing anymore he doesn't really perform all i know is like in sync there are rumors that in sync is gonna still announce a tour they did hot ones together i mean i i you know i think that there are enough people in in sync where they

can sort of like blunt the the problems of like there's four other guys sure um so unless one of those four guys also does something terrible to an iconic singer like you know i think it'll be probably fine i think backstreet's got more baggage is lance backstreet or in sync in sync what the fuck is wrong with you it It's Lance Bass. Backstreet. I think what would be fun, given that Lance Bass came out of the closet after being in the group, that he had to sing all these songs

all the time about women and I love you and like, ooh girl, you're hot, that now NSYNC should incorporate more gay songs that they all have to sing too. Yeah.

I think they all five should do a whole album that's just being a track to other men. And I think in exchange, the four straight members should have to sing gay love songs for just a couple years. I think that's only fair. Only fair. I'm sure they would love to. I mean, financially, it would probably... Justin would be like, will this fix everything?

Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure they would love to. I mean, financially, it would probably... Justin would be like, will this fix everything? Yeah. Yeah, I'm down. I'll pull a cup off someone, have their dick go out at the Super Bowl. That's the way to fix it. He has to pull a dick out at the Super Bowl. He has to pull his own dick out. Yeah, he has to pull his own dick out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It has to be pierced. Is the question, though... That is really funny. As a country, we will forgive you of all your sins, Justin Timberlake,

if you pull your dick out. I'm going to have you, Nick, by the end of this. That's very generous. That's a very generous Justin Timberlake dick. If you end the Super Bowls, the Super Bowl goes,

fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice. Wow, we solved it. We did it all. Okay, there's no way they can pick it up on the microphone. There is a strange, there seems to be sawing sounds kind of going in a circle around us.

It's a fucking Wile E. Coyote cartoon. End up in the street. There's this incredible, have you seen about this thing with the Chabad tunnels in Brooklyn? Yeah. So there's some guy on Twitter, and years ago he was like, I swear I hear Jews on the floor, and I'm on the ground level. And of course everyone said you're an anti-semite oh my god and then and then he says you motherfuckers i knew it there were jews underneath he said i heard yiddish and people are probably like you are you're crazy

and turns out he was right he was right it's a twilight zone episode come to life that is a tough one. Can you imagine? If you said that to me, I'd be like, Russell, stop. You've got to stop telling people that. I don't think I would tell anyone. You have to kick them off the podcast. I think I would move and just pretend it wasn't ever happening. I never heard it.

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um so so you you joined buzzfeed How did you fall into that job? Uh, I had a friend who worked there. Okay. So this is actually a weird story. I was, I was interviewing for, so do you remember Gawker tried to reboot Defamer in like the early 2010s? I know Gawker, but what was Defamer? Defamer was like their Hollywood blog.

Okay. And it, it, they had it and it died and they tried to reboot it um and i was at like my shitty job and i think they were like we're taking open submissions for this job and i was like you know what i'm gonna write something shitty and snarky and like i shot it off and then like 20 minutes later they were like hey do you want to come i want to stay to like the tropicana pool bar and like yeah meet with us to talk to us about this uh and then i told my friend who worked at buzzfeed that i was interviewing for this job and she said no no don't go work for a gawker come work for us and so i

kind of used that interview to like to get another interview and then were you in the blogs like were you writing blogs i was an assistant in the valley i was like 29 years old and my life was like nowhere and nothing like it was terrible uh i used to be i was never a gawker guy but i did on the daily check tmz and perez hilton i got oh my god oh my god why would you ever tell us that we're doing it but you don't have to tell anyone yeah perez oh there's a classic where like ellen degeneres had perez on her show to be like you're mean right yeah and you're gonna stop being mean and perez was like yeah yeah and then later i know prez was so excited on those tmz people those i hate when i see when you're in like a hotel and you're like

flipping around for whatever reason TMZ you know you don't see it yeah yeah and then you see that channel when they're sitting in that room and they're just like making jokes but it's like the worst kind of yeah I've ever heard and they just like sometimes they try to be really sincere and then other times they're like so Kanye was having a mental breakdown let's bring him in the studio and talk to him for an hour and just air it unedited and then that owner is like he's like 70 but he like looks he's like super tan and he still is like like he's doing it all frankly he looks good for his age yeah he's being held together with like spit and tape and like thousands of dollars i'm guessing yeah tmc is crazy because like tmc is everywhere in la like

they have they have their hands in every pocket it like, it is, they have a more complex spy network than I think the ones that we use our tax dollars for, if I had to guess. They, I saw, it was just like recently, it was like Timothee Chalamet, where they just approach as if they're like, hey, Timothee, anything about the rumor at the Golden Globes

that you wouldn't take the picture with so-and-so? Don't pretend like you don't know every part of this. Selena Gomez whispered to Taylor Swift that Timothy wouldn't take a, who's Timothy dating? Kylie Jenner. Kylie Jenner. Whatever, but it's just like,

when Alec Baldwin punches a paparazzi guy, part of me is like, I do get it. I do get it. These people are just harassing you nonstop. There was some movie made called Paparazzo, and it was like a celebrity's wife died because the paparazzi, like kind of Princess Diana style,

and then he was going to kill all the paparazzi. Oh, my God. It felt very much like a movie that a bunch of Hollywood people were like, this is relatable. Yeah, we love this movie. This is relatable to everyone in middle America. Don't want to just kill pop starring liam neeson yeah yeah yeah that kind of movie yeah um so they're around la a lot like you see them no i think just anecdotally you know that like they just happen they just have eyes and ears everywhere they just

i don't know they're just like a very complex network or at least you know they were for a long time i haven't checked in on tmz lately so like this is not like on the pulse about tmz but i think like it's kind of as it's known that like they just they're very committed to their craft of knowing too much about people that's how i know i make it when we leave this podcast studio and someone is out there it's got to be embarrassing in the beginning it's just one guy's like hey hey any upcoming downside guests that are excited and you're like uh you're too eager you're like oh no hi hello hello um so so you joined buzzfeed and was it was it on this role was it on this like explosion thing yet kind of i mean i think people knew about it but it wasn't like buzzfeed was still very focused on having a house style they were very focused on

like the voice is the voice of buzzfeed it's not the voice of kristen or the voice of someone else and then what happened was they started making videos and people started getting attached to people in videos and then the whole like house style thing kind of got like thrown out the window sure um and that but that started about when i joined i would like 2014 is kind of when it really started cooking with gas and then like by 2015 it was like full-fledged did you feel like the offices got upgraded there were better snacks oh yeah i mean it was like working at buzzfeed in the, it was like every behind the music documentary. Oh, yeah. It's like, everything was great, kind of, until it wasn't.

Like, it's, yeah, it was, like, our offices got bigger and, like, people were getting hired all the time. And, like, they would bring in, like, you know, I don't know, random, we had parties, we constantly had parties. We constantly had parties. Were they, like, drinking? Oh, yeah. It was, like, people would drink at the office all, I don't know, I shouldn't be saying this, but whatever. constantly had parties we constantly had parties what were they like drinking and oh yeah it was like people drink at the office all i'm just saying this whatever it's fine it's fine no people drink at the office all the time not like during the day but like it was there were always parties there were people will go back to the office like after the end of the day and like hang out there

until like two in the morning like we go to the bar and then go back to the office. Yeah. Like it was a particular moment in time. Listen, WeWork's whole pitch when WeWork exploded was we have a beer on tap. Yeah. Like that was the thing. It's truly that line probably helped them explode to this.

So people like to drink at work. Yeah, I mean, we had a drink cart. We had a drink cart that would come around. Oh, that's fancy. You wouldn't last there a week that's fancy nice yeah and like was there a drink maker were they like do you want a mojito you want a margarita i mean it was the drink cart was like i want to say it was like a friday thing like they would have someone will push around the drink cart and be like do you want like his it was it was one of many silly amenities like people will come in the thing also is that like pr people wanted to be seen in the office all the time so like people would just drop in to the office yeah like one time richard

simmons just showed up and i think he was like one of the last times he was seen in public wait has he not been seen no yeah there's a whole he's he like is a recluse and it was like very i don't know how sharp it was but but yeah there was someone did a whole podcast of like is he okay and he's like released a statement like please leave me alone oh i didn't know that sounds like he was he's depressed i don't know i mean i know one day he showed up to the offices unannounced and no one was expecting, and he was just there. Was he in his outfit? No, he was just... I have a picture of myself with him during that time.

He showed up? He just showed up. He took... Everyone wanted to take pictures with him, and he wanted to get a... He had a bespoke pose for every person who took a picture with him. So for some people, it was like, let's do a prom photo. I think for me, we're holding hands like like this, like mid-twirl or something. It's like, it was very odd.

That's why I'm disappearing is so weird because he had bespoke poses for all his photo shoots. Yeah, yeah. Listen, I'm really struggling. After shows, I take pictures with people sometimes and I'm like, I got three faces and I do them every time and I can't think of anything new.

That's fine. It's just a... Yeah, you don't want to... Also, you don't want to not smile sometimes i sometimes i do i mean for downside for people who like the podcast i always want to do like a let's look unhappy and they're like oh let's do a happy one now yeah like okay well that's yeah then you're doing more um richard simmons came in did he did he go can we do a video like i don't understand he just wanted he just wanted to be he just wanted to be in the office like it this happened some like one

day i mean celebs would come in because they were doing like content and like sometimes we would get like like one day paul rudd showed up to the office which was like a very paul rudd showed up to the office to do a quiz and we were all very excited because it was a small office and he was given a laptop to take this quiz and meanwhile we're all talking about Paul Rudd on Slack and being like Paul Rudd's here and he's so hot

he's great and look at his hair and he sees a notification clicks into the Slack reads all our Slack messages what like they would say like oh i'm gonna sit on that face i mean i don't remember but it was definitely like come on if you're talking about paul ron on the slack someone's saying that eventually yeah i mean he came out it was just like i thought you guys were all really quiet and we were like ah you got us that's he literally came into the office

to take a buzzfeed quiz what was the quiz i don't even remember it was so long ago i mean you ever make those quizzes yeah for i mean i was a writer on the site for i want to say like full-time two years and then i got slowly sucked into video like you ever take a buzzfeed quiz in your life i think so yeah sure and what what like what i have no no you know i think i probably took a bunch i don't know it was so deeply it became such a cultural cornerstone i still know comedians with bits about a buzzfeed quiz yeah yeah i mean quizzes were like such a what a weird what a weird time it was like you know i mean i made probably dozens and dozens of quizzes. I can't, I don't even know how many posts I made for BuzzFeed, probably in the hundreds.

I don't even, there are posts where sometimes I'm like, I don't even remember, like I wrote a whole thing. I don't remember writing any of this because it was just like, it's like a machine. Like the people who write for the website, it's like, it is a thankless job. It is, it sucks. It's, I'm kind of glad I didn't do it for that long because like i would have lost my mind um so in this excitement period was it did you feel good did you feel on top of the world no every day you're gonna every day it was like i'm gonna get fired today even

though like almost no one got fired it was like yeah it just no you constantly were worried about because like this is i feel like i'm doing a behind the music right now you have to imagine that when you were there it was like you know the numbers were so big because they were the numbers were huge it was like they were massive numbers on the website massive through facebook that like was this where facebook and buzzfeed were working in tandem or like well yes and no facebook and us we were like us i don't work there anymore facebook and buzzfeed they were like kind of frenemies were like buzzfeed would kind of figure out the algorithm and then it we were like us. I don't even work there anymore. Facebook and BuzzFeed, they were like kind of frenemies. We're like, BuzzFeed would kind of figure out the algorithm and then it would be like, we figured it out.

And then the algorithm would change and it would be like, uh-oh, everything we know is wrong. We got to figure it out again. And like, you know, when an algorithm would change, like a BuzzFeed competitor, like sometimes would die. And so. Sure. Yeah.

So like, you know, it would be that brutal it was that important to understand facebook and of course like we find out later that facebook is juicing all the shit and like making up these numbers or the whole college i mean i was we kind of like we're moving more in comedy like right as a lot of those things collapse unfortunately yeah i had a general audition at college humor like right before the new york offices closed like it just felt like man i got right i got it right too late where i went there and i remember going to college humor's offices and it was like you know so the first time i've seen like a snack like just a wall of different kinds of snacks and they're free

and uh and then the next day there it was just the whole Facebook video inflation count. Everyone had leaned into Facebook. Facebook said, actually, no one's really watching this. They all lost. Yeah. Okay, so you felt you were in with that rise. Office is getting bigger, more famous. Do you do your own – were you happy ever um

i what a great question i would say there were there were genuine moments where i was happy and there were also many more genuine moments where i was like i'm gonna die today i know it i'm just gonna have a heart attack in the office. Cause I'm so stressed out. And I think that, you know, overall it's a net positive experience, but like the vibrating,

because everyone was super competitive. You're super competitive with other things on the internet. And it's like, the thing is, is we were, we were making stuff that was going viral all the time which doesn't happen ever yeah which is wild yeah and so like your expectation for what you're supposed to produce is ridiculously inflated it has no relationship

to reality and so when you can't like when you get a video that was only like a million views, it was like, oh. Which is banana pants. Yeah. And so, you know, I got to do things at BuzzFeed that I'll never get to do in my life. I got to play with baby elephants in Kenya. That is very much my jam. Yeah. Would you want to do that?

Yeah, I love, oh my God. Someone recently, my opener, Liam Nelson, he showed me pictures from the Bahamas. He went surfing with pigs. And I was like, that's my dream now. Bat, dolphins, baby elephants. Yeah. They're like little, what if a puppy was a boulder?

Yeah. And they're snuggly. They're like, they're into it. Yeah, they're so cuddly and they're also very dangerous. So... Yeah, like, I mean, they're big. Even a baby elephant could... Yeah, like, well, they're this high, but they're like rocks.

They're like playful little rocks that are just like, what's up? Like, my mom's dead, but I love you. Their moms are dead? Yeah. They're orphans. Yeah, they're orphans. Oh, I see. Yeah.

Yeah. I thought they were just visiting. No, you can just go and take them from their parents. No, we were going out into the wild and finding wild. No, these are at an orphanage. Do they say, like, don't go behind it. Don't under it well so we got five we got to do like a like a like a private interaction with the elephants so like when they were coming out to get like their milk bottles in the morning oh my god like they they came running down the hill all of these

little babies uh and like we basically like they're like don't touch their trunks um but like i think also don't touch their ears but you can pet their backs the biggest appendages on a fucking elephant i know but they don't like it they sure um but they were i mean they were so they're curious they're they're like they're funny they chew on you for no reason like they're affectionate like they're just like could you feel their intelligence like they're yeah because they're these animals that like have funerals i mean they're yeah because like they're just as interested in you as you are in them i see because they're just like what is like what what's your whole deal like and then like after all they're

like i'll find someone else like that you're boring like they they want stimulation as much as you do so like yeah they'll oh no it, Oh no, it's incredible. It's like, and I'll never ever be able to do that outside the context of Buzzfeed. So like I got moments like, but also on that same trip, like I almost had like a nervous breakdown. So like it, you know,

it sure. Hi, hi, slow moves. But is this like, was this self inflicted or like if you saw a video under a million views or a million views, you said,

Oh fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. And someone, did someone talk to you? Did someone say, million views or a million views you said oh fuck fuck fuck fuck and someone did someone talk to you did someone say hey only three million views on the elephant video you should have touched the trunk pissed it off yeah made a bit um i mean i don't think one failure wasn't a big deal it was like a chain of failures that became a big deal and so if you weren't

someone who was capable of creating viral content it was very difficult to be successful or happy at buzzfeed which is uh you know creating there are people who go their whole lives not being able to create viral content having to do it sitting with two of them it's really it's really hard it's like i mean you cannot i know i know yeah i know i mean i you know i live and breathe the principles of how to create content that like emotionally connects with people let me just we have to i know you can't hear it the construction around us is comical it It is like a power drill. It's getting closer and closer to me. And it's right next to Russell. But yeah, you felt it. I mean, you would feel the pressure of performing.

And then also, if ever you asked for a raise, it'd be like, well, you know. I know. And at the time, you're like, no, I know you got the money right now. I mean, people have viewed the videos that I have been in and made literally billions of times. Yeah. Billions. But like, that whole time I was there, I was like, you were made to feel like any day. It was all new in the sense that there wasn't like price points necessarily to compare it to. Yeah, no.

You couldn't know for sure. Like they could claim, well, you got those views because we're BuzzFeed's brand. Yes. And you don't even confidently know if I leave BuzzFeed, do I carry any of this stuff with me? Can I launch my own channel? I'm sure that beginning part is very scary. Oh, and don't worry. They definitely made us feel like if we left, our lives would be over.

How so? Like, did they sit you down and say? Like, I mean, I think at one point I was trying to negotiate. Like, we were, at one point I had to sign a contract. And, like, you know, at one point I signed a contract that had no numbers in it. None. Zero. And, like, the caveat was, like, just trust us.

It'll be fine. And, like, I think in the beginning where i was like hey it's weird that i'm being asked to sign a contract with no numbers in it they were like well if you think you can leave and do better elsewhere you're free to go like so there's always kind of an undercurrent of like it's like you should have had agents representing you within the company but but it was like i mean you could compare it it's the same way where mgm had their it's exactly what the thing is is like if you if you look at like zay frank interviews from like really early a video he talks about being like i want to recreate the studio system and everyone

was like that seems fine like but in a way it's very successful like you see i think we go through waves of i mean we're clearly in such a deep independent wave but it'll come back it's all it's all cyclical yeah i mean i hope not it's like it's not it's not a fun system to be a part of because you do kind of feel like a piece of furniture that's kind of being moved around in like different areas and like it's like super dependent on like the you know it It took me a long time to realize that the reason why my content did well is because of me and not because of Daddy Jonah Peretti.

Sure. I think as someone outside of the system, there is a part of me where I go, you got to be... Again, I'm not saying, well, you should be grateful. I'm just saying, I'm like, oh, I'm not saying like, well, you should be grateful. I'm just saying like, I'm like,

oh, I'm so nice, jealous of like, wow, what a great launching pad. My YouTube had three subscribers for a long time. It is a great launching pad. The thing is,

it's like, you know, I, and I don't, I, I paid for it with, you know, all the mental illnesses that I acquired at that time.

So like, I think that I am that I am grateful. I mean, I don't know. I didn't realize this was the gratefulness podcast. No, no, no. We're going to be grateful. Say you're grateful for BuzzFeed. No, okay.

So let's go to the turn. We're big BuzzFeed boys. You're growing, you're growing, you're growing. Drink hearts. Russell Simmons? Peter Simmons. Richard Simmons. Richard Simmons. Russell Simmons. Richard Simmons.

Russell Simmons. Russell Simmons. Everything's great. Blowing up. You're stressed, but you're getting seen. Yeah. Where's the turn? Is it immediate, do you feel?

Or is it things like, we're not going to have the drink cart on Friday? They start taking away little things. The vodka's empty. Well, we're not gonna do it anymore the big the the i should have seen it in retrospect turn or the commonly i retrospect first retrospect first the retrospect turn was when they asked us to make our own channel for our show when they were like yeah we're just we're gonna we're gonna make you're gonna make you're to launch a channel of the show. It's going to be great.

Um, and you're going to be expected to maintain this channel and we are going to support you with resources to do that. I should have looked at that and been like, no, that's not going to, and why did they do that? They just needed you to take on more responsibilities because they couldn't cover it? So new channels do better.

And so when you launch a new channel, especially if you're launching a new channel with, I guess, older IP, like known things, it's going to be prioritized by YouTube and it's going to do better. So like they were incentivized to start new channels with familiar talent. So they were incentivized to start new channels with familiar talent. Starting and maintaining a YouTube channel sucks. It's super hard. You know this. Oh, I know what's this. Yeah, it's super hard. Russell has no clue.

Russell has no idea. Super hard. It's a full-time job. It's an every week of the year job. So that probably, I think... Let's be clear. When full-time job, not like the kind of one that you just did

at the beginning of the show, when we're like, you have to be actively participating. Yeah, you tell me about full-time jobs. I currently have three full-time fucking jobs. You call this a full-time job? Okay, I have... You call this a full-time job?

No, no, no. I have two full-time jobs and this very part-time job i have two full-time jobs and this very part-time job thank you uh yeah i don't even know what i was talking about um yeah i i think that's when i should have known oh i think this is bad yeah um but i was just so in it that i was like, I gotta just get to the next day. Be commonly accepted, the party is over, is there was like a massive layoff in January 2019 that was handled horribly. It got leaked to the media by like a board,

not a board member, but it got leaked to the media by somebody super high up. I mean, my theories as to who it is, but like, I don't know um so you had been with the company how long at this point 2019 so about five years and change five years and change yeah and so so how big was this layoff what percentage how many it was big it was um it was big i don't know we hear about you laid off percentage why was i laid off yeah no i quit of my own volition okay we would not have anyone who's laid off as a guest oh that's been a rule from day one i mean i i feel like from the outside we hear about big layoffs all the time so curious like we hear like you go to your email and you're just locked out your key card doesn't work what was this like it was here's the thing i i should say about this layoff i did not lose

my job in it so for me it was not like the experience it was for people who are laid off so like yeah i'm talking about it from the perspective of someone who stayed afterwards not from like the perspective of losing my job so i did not lose my job because i you know i don't want people to be like well you it was you thought the laugh was bad but you kept your job it's ridiculous yeah um but like basically they the layoffs got announced before they had decided who was going to be laid off oh my god oh my you got one more quiz to post yeah this quiz better fucking nail it which harry potter house are you please so so they so basically a bunch of people got into a room and just like you know how when you're moving and like you you think you've packed everything but it turns out there's like nine boxes of stuff

still left and you're just throwing stuff out and throwing stuff in boxes and it's like what i'll just buy it that's what it was like where it was just like i don't i don't know like this person i guess we'll keep this so like it was it was chaos like our boss was fired and then our boss's boss quit so then we were managed by our boss's boss's boss who hated us so then they it was like there were people who got fired who got brought back for i think more money than they were making before it was just it was not they doing it via email? Were they bringing people in? People were crying in the hallway? They were bringing a bunch of people into Zoom meetings and being like, you're all fired.

Oh my God. I don't know if this was the layoff. It might've been a different one, but there was one layoff where it was for a Zoom meeting and the password was spring is here. And then when the meeting started laid everyone off spring is here bye that is that was the password to get in bye bye bye spring is here you guys got a big vacation oh my god just nightmare yeah one time i had layoffs

at work and it was funny that um i i told my coworkers, I said, the way it was like, hey, can we have everyone come in tomorrow for specific meetings? And we're going to have specific meeting times with each person. And I was like, sounds like there's going to be layoffs. And they were all like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was like, really? It's just the way we're all meeting individually. I don't think we're getting bonuses. Do you know what I I was like I don't think it's like it's not the time of year where we do negotiation and um everyone got fired except me and I told them and I was

like I think we're getting we're there and they were and you were the only one not laid off did you go in the meeting and they said hey so like did they tell you we've been letting a lot of people go today they told me I was And they said, we're keeping you. Here's what's happening. But we're going to fire everyone else. It was a small office. There was like three or four people they were firing. But I went out then knowing that everyone's, they're all getting fired.

You saw their faces. Yeah. I mean, I went back to work. Did you just go out and were like, spring's here. No, but I was very conscious of not coming out and being like, I wanted to avoid, because I was like,

everyone's about to have their meeting. So I didn't want to give away. I didn't want to, either way. I didn't want to be like, I want to come out and be like. Oh my God, but this one guy, he came out. I'll never forget. He came out and he sat down across from me after he got fired.

And he goes, haven't had a drink in seven years. I'm going to go get one. And I was like, I want to be like, no. He's doing great now. He's doing great now. He has a different job. He lives. I don't know drinking-wise if he's doing great.

But he seems to be doing great. He got a different job right after that. God. But I was so like, oh God, I don't want to It was very stressful. He should have said, what would have stopped me from getting that drink? You would warn me, Russell.

You would warn me before I went in there. Yeah, it was bad. It was just handled The thing about buzzfeed that i will say is that they were incredibly good at hiring very talented people and incredibly bad at treating them well yeah like uh and so the day of this layoff it was just like people were crying it was like and actually i remember the day of the layoff uh i like uh i want to say like either a famous figure skater was there to do an

interview and i forgot who it was it was it was like an olympian who was like in the lobby and he was just like what is going on like everyone was crying drinking and he's just there to do it oh my god i'm actually gonna have to work that day too like you're like i imagine some people doing that i don't it's like yeah it's crazy when people were laid off did they like lose access immediately like are they kicked out oh yeah i mean it was they was just like yeah it was it was immediate it was oh it was rough it was bad and again i i still had a job so like you know it's not from the perspective of someone who lost their job but it after that the people who remained, it was just like,

well, we've seen what you've done to everyone who doesn't live here anymore. Yeah, how long did you have, how long after that were you there? A year. Did any of the people who left, did any of them, were they go public and go make their YouTube video,

make their post about Buzzfeed socks fuck this place probably i mean it's everyone i feel like the making your making your why i love buzzfeed video is sort of like a time-honored tradition for no other reason than like it completely juices your subscriber numbers of course yeah i watched i watched yours and i watched someone else before you who worked on ladylike uh i just watched two why i left buzzfeed videos i'm trying to think who else made one but yeah everyone makes one because it's just it's like a one also the other reason why it's good to make one and i say this ever having talked about buzzfeed for an hour uh is that like it's a way to kind of be like this is the last thing i'm saying about

this can i move on with my life yeah um yeah and did but i imagine buzzfeed contracts at that point after that were like if you get laid off you can't make this video no i don't maybe they did i don't know i didn't sign anything i never signed any sort of like non-disparagement i mean here's the thing i disparaged buzzfeed while i worked there like i talked shit about the company while i like on twitter all the time like really well yeah i mean what were they gonna do i apparently lay off a third of the company but like i was you know it i think every time because like every time that like jonah would get into it with somebody online everyone would be like you know they jonah would lose so it's like yeah there's no benefit to him fighting back with like

random disgruntled employees so and so you left what was this 2002 i left january 2020 wow yes interesting time and is it has it just been for that company just downhill from there just just oh less and less and less yeah just like less and less and less what do they do now they i don't here's the thing i don't know, there's so few people I know who work there anymore. Um, I don't even know who is still there. I know that they downsized their office again. It's just,

the thing is, I think I know a couple people who were there and it's like, it's hard. Cause like you never want to quit your job if you don't have like a source of income. Um, but yeah, I mean, I don't,

I don't really know. I don't really, I don't keep up. It's like a boyfriend that like I mean, I don't really know. I don't keep up. It's like a boyfriend that like I left in the street. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just the internet, just those companies lost all their power.

They did. And I wonder if there will ever be a thing of that again or whether we have moved on to these. I don't know. It's just you were in the thick of this huge internet creation and dissolution and it was so powerful and it all went away and you just wonder what the next thing is or if it all just becomes incredibly individual and we is it just more and more of us having our patreons and our youtube ads and so content is like I mean the formats of content obviously move in phases

like you know this yeah um but like kind of the the fundamentals of the things that people share and people make do not change at all people are making the same things now they made 10 years ago they're just making it on TikTok like it's the same formats the same principles like you know and so it's if you know how to make content that connects with people you will always know how to do it it's just a matter of having technical skills to do it somewhere else so just adapting to algorithm i mean like i you know i've had to figure out just oh facebook's doing this now okay facebook's kind of dead i still post shit on snapchat what and snapchat is having like a revival of they're doing some new program where you can make some money there.

And it's just like, okay. I get, I mean, TikTok is kind of like every. You use Snapchat, but for like other things. You're like, don't talk to, don't put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby. I've actually never used Snapchat. I can barely, I mean, I,... I mean, someone helps with these posts, but Snapchat, I still don't understand how it works. I don't either.

Snapchat was the first app where I was like, did you make this hard to operate on purpose? To keep... I was too old to even know how it worked. Well, yeah. I mean, you didn't grow up with it. Snapchat was basically like a messaging app for teens, teens like 10 15 years after you were a teenager so like there's you're there's no reason for you to know about snapchat it's like you know i was there

for myspace i was very young i barely knew how to use myspace but facebook yeah i was there i was there when i had to use my high school email address to make the account because it was like affiliated through school systems you couldn't just make an account willie you had to be a cathartic college yeah yeah and i did it in high school originally college and then and then i think they must have expanded high school i still have pokes i remember facebook you remember let's explain facebook there are there are listeners to this show that will never know. Where there was the thing of the poke and it was like, what is this?

Oh, the poke. Oh my God, the poke. You poke for the sake of it. And it would be the weirdest people poking you every so often. I usually poke people. I bet you were a big poker. Big poker.

Poking was basically... Assault. Sexual assault. Uh-huh. I mean, now it is. For poking, it's only function was Russell J. Daniels poked you. Poked them back.

Oh, I thought it's only function was to like indicate that you wanted to fuck someone that you weren't able to like. I didn't think that. I thought it was like just being like, hey. That. Yeah. Really? That's what I thought. It could be flirty. All men were just like, hey, that. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Sure. That's what I thought. It could be flirty.

It could be like- All men were just like, we were just going, hey. No, I'm sure there were- That's what Russell said in court. I thought it was a hey. I think there were definitely men who were like, I'm poking. Sure. But the other thing is you couldn't poke.

You have to wait for a poke back before you poked again. That's so true. So you couldn't poke harass anyone. No. It was a mutual poking. But I feel like it usually devolved into like, we should actually interact. And Facebook, this was back when you had to identify who you were. You couldn't, which my like, this is not my theory, but I'm like, I do believe, I'm like,

wouldn't the internet be a better place if we all had to say who we are? But people show their asses even had to say who we are but people taught people app like show their asses even though they say who they are like we thought actually that like showing your face and like your name would cause you to behave better and we know it doesn't yeah you know people say ridiculous things under their names and faces all the time like people just don't care like i go through waves sometimes i'm really strong and i see a comment that's me and i go that's fine and then other times i'm like i I'm going to say something back. Do comments bother you still?

The kind of comments that bother me. Say it so everyone knows. It's like, it just depends. Like this is the studio's newly set up and we talked about it before. The couch being too small. The couch being too small. And I was like, fuck you. Fuck you.

How fucking dare you. I don't mind any about my looks or appearance. If they say not funny, hacky, I knew where that joke was going. That makes me mad. Someone recently,

we posted talking our talking about Ricky Gervais we were talking shit but some people being like oh wow three three

whatever losers commenting on a guy who's successful what do you know and that made me mad yeah I could see I mean the only things

that make me mad are not funny not funny drives me wild not funny is a tough one drives me wild and when people call me like

a fake native that makes me oh my god that makes me like sea flames that makes me those i actually sometimes respond to and what do you what do you say um usually it's somebody who it's somebody outside community who like doesn't understand um and so I'll be like listen my family knows who I am uh-huh that's all that really matters um and when they get that comment do they do they like it

and go that was a very nice well put no never never no no here's the thing responding to comments about people who like want to deny like who you are as a person it's oh it devolves into... It scratches an itch that only gets itchier. There's no point in doing it.

Yeah, I agree. But like, it's not. So, sure, let's talk about that. So, do you have a native heritage? I'm a native person, yeah. You're a native person. Yeah. And did you know this from your whole life?

Yes. I have known this my whole life. I did not have the, the technology did not exist for me to have like proof or have like connections to my culture or anything like that, or like know who like my family members were. But like, yeah, I've known like my whole life.

I just didn't have like you know i had no information about it like it's only in like the last i mean honestly like decade it's that that's even really been possible for people like me to know but yeah like i've known like my whole life like when you were a kid like i'm like fake italian like barely italian but your name when i was i'm also fake Italian but my father I said recently there's some symbol it's like a face with three legs it looks too close to a swastika

oh the crest of the Isle of Man yes and my father when I was a kid was like this is our family crest it's not even an Italian crest exactly exactly and every night we pray to Christopher Columbus.

Truly. Over spaghetti. He was like, this is our family sauce, ragu. And you're like, this is not. And he told me, you're 100% Italian. 100, what? At an age where I go, my Jewish mother is part of this. It has to be.

And he told me, you have family in Sicily. And we, listen, I think we do. We do. But it's like, I then went to Italy after college. And I went to Sicily. And I said to my dad, like, hey, I'd love to get in touch. And he was like, I can't find them. I can't find them. Where are they? where are they and i was like we talked about this my whole childhood when you were a kid yeah

was was uh was being native if am i using the term correctly being native yeah was that a part of like your childhood like like your identity as a kid honestly not really because well for a couple reasons one my mom um and i've talked about this like on our channel but my mom was stolen um and so my mom was disconnected from her family uh for all my childhood so my mom just kind of was like a person and i just didn't know anyone else related to her biologically at what age was she's six and when you say stolen what do you mean uh the police came to her house in the middle of the night and uh so like there's a long tradition in this country we'll say of stealing native children and giving them to white people uh and my mom was one of those children uh and like police came in the middle of the night and took them and gave them to a white person.

What pretext did they claim? Like, what do they say? Usually, it's, I mean, in this particular case, the pretext is the kids are being mistreated or they're being neglected. Which, like, is sometimes the case. But, like, it's, you know, instead of giving them to, like, other Native people, it was just, let's just assimilate them. Wow. Yeah. That's six where where was her family so now i mean they were i mean they kind of got like they got her siblings got separated so like they were i'm actually writing a book about this yeah i was i was in arizona and i i went to uh a res i got food like that was part of a reservation and the guy was explaining to me like just the politics of reservations and like how they relate.

It was just like, oh my god, it's this whole world of government that I don't even – I've never known about at all and the relationship of it all. And he was also talking about the casino element and how the casino, they had this casino and it funded this part. And they shared, these two reservations shared a casino and they shared this. And it was just wild. Yeah. It was so intricate. I had no idea. Yeah. I mean, it's a whole, I mean, Native nations are autonomous nations.

They have nation to nation relationships with the United States of America. So like, I mean, like the Haudenosaunee, which I am, so I am, I am Cayuga Ndowaga. So, like, that, which in English is Cayuga in Seneca, which you would know them as the Iroquois. Okay. But the Iroquois is, or Iroquois is a slur, actually. I told you to stop saying that.

You're constantly saying Iroquois. That's what, that's. I remember you learn about that's what they would label it, name it in school growing up. The fact that I just said that word, is that okay? When you say, or is that bad? It's fine.

It's not a big deal. I mean, I say, if ever you hear a word for a native person that is obviously French or Spanish, you should probably interrogate, who came up with that word? It is Iroquois, of course. Don't say it.

Adding a French... Have I made it worse? I don't know. I don't know. That might be more offensive to the French. I know. Oh, my God. I'm so nervous.

No, it's fine. I mean, when I say slur, I mean, like, it means, like, snake. Like, it's based on, like, I think an Anishinaabe word for, like, which were, like, the enemies of, like, the Haudenosaunee. So, like, it was, like, basically, like, through the misinterpretation of colonialization, like, Iroquois became, like, the word for the Haudenosaunee. Which is the six nations of which two of my nations are a part of. Which I know is very complicated. You're going to remember all of this and there will be a quiz.

I mean, yeah, it's no, I know not to say that word any, any more. I, I, but just to educate me,

I don't need to, do I need to bleep it out? No. Okay. No, it's fine. It's, I don't need to bleep it out.

They still, so a lot of like, I did a podcast once. There was a guy, he said, say this Italian word. And I did. And. No, it's fine. You don't need to believe it. They still, so a lot of like- I did a podcast once. There was a guy, he said, say this Italian word. And I did. And he said, that's the Italian version of the N word. I was like, what the fuck? I wouldn't do that to you.

It was fucking with me. And it was like, it was like, it wasn't the exact clue. But I was like, what the fuck, dude? Now people tell me, I'm like, I'm not saying that word. What does that mean? Oh my God. We cut it out. It was like, I was like, I had to sit with him and be Now people tell me, I'm like, I'm not saying that word. What does that mean? Oh, my God. We cut it out. It was like, I had to sit with them and be like, we're cutting it out in front of me now.

No, I mean, instead of Iroquois, you should say Haudenosaunee, which I know is longer and has more syllables. Okay. Haudenosaunee. Haudenosaunee. Haudenosaunee. Yes. Haudenosaunee. Yes.

Your turn. Haudenosaunee. Great. Wow, got it in one. Perfect. Perfect. Nailedony. Yes. Your turn. Hoda Nashony. Great. Wow, got it in one. Perfect. Perfect, nailed it. Okay, so your mom was then stolen, but then adopted. How do you view her parents?

Do you view them as- Her adopted parents? Her adopted parents. It's complicated. Complicated, right? It's complicated. Sure. They adopted her at six?

She was, I want to say, so then, I think it was made legal when she was nine, but I think she was taken when she was six. Basically,

like, her, she was kind of selected from like a bunch of like her siblings. Basically, like her adopted parents picked her

as like the child they were going to have because she was quieter and so they thought she would yeah it's bananas because you're like that's not long ago no this was the 60s yeah and it's complicated because my mom loved my mom loved her adopted father loved him had a complicated relationship with her adopted mother but loved her adopted father, loved him. Had a complicated relationship with her adopted mother, but loved her adopted father. And I never knew him.

And my adopted grandmother died when I was 13. So I don't really, these people are kind of like, I don't have the same emotional relationship to them that my mom does. So to me, it's kind of easy for me to flatten them out and be like, thieves! But for her, it's like, for her, they're like the people who saved me

from a sad life yeah right well if she's six you're like you don't have that many memories from before then so you're like most of her life memories yeah so like it's a it's a complicated thing and like you know when i was a kid like my my dad's mom gave me like this like madame alexander tiger lily doll and was just like you because you that's this is you right and like and like she had like a kind of a weird fascination like she kind of would ask my mom about it a lot and it kind of bothered my mom um yeah you know obviously because it was like very so like i knew about it i just it was one of those things were like i didn't have the ability to research or learn or find these people because like the technology didn't exist was your mom

interested in her heritage or was she like the past is the past i think both yeah if that makes sense i think that she is very much like moving forward, not looking back. Yeah. Back there's pain. Forward is better. Good meals and fun times. So I think that for me, I think we have different ideas about what healing is and what that looks like.

And obviously, we had different childhoods so when did you become interested in like learning more or investigating it i think it became i think it was like an itch in my brain that i could never quite satisfy and i think like i kind of reached a point where um we did so we did a video where i took a dna test and i was just like you know what we're just gonna do this and then i can find you know it it's for once and for all we're just gonna we're gonna put it to bed like maybe this is a lie maybe maybe this is actually something my mom just made up and then it wasn't and then i was like okay i have to actually i have to i have to figure this out like i have you have any fear Do you have any fear? Because I've never taken a DNA. I mean, there's other fears about, you know, DNA, whatever.

Sure. But if I found out that I was 4% Italian, 3% Italian, I go like, man, that is really small. Did you have any fear of oh i'm gonna lose something that feels like it's part of my identity or like or did you or or like what your threshold was like if you you know i just imagine you you had fears yeah yeah what was your was it that it was going to be like zero? My fear was, my fear was that it was going to, honestly, I was afraid of, I was afraid of what actually happened. I was afraid that, because for a long time, I think my mom was like, we're native.

And I was like, sure, mom, you know, like that's, you know, that's, that's fine. Even though like my mom is obviously not white. So it's like, that took like a, a, a titanic level of denial on my part sure um but i think i was just kind of like afraid that i'd wasted so much time on something that i could have been exploring and that because like if it wasn't real then i hadn't wasted any time and obviously i wasn't talking about it publicly so it wasn't like you know i didn't have to worry about having staked my reputation on it um but it was just i think i was worried that you know i would be this person who just had spent so much of their life not knowing about who they are or where they came from um and that ended up being what happened it's the

the funny the joke that i that my wife and i tell is that like so the other movie frozen too i know and i haven't seen it okay so frozen too is quite literally a native reconnection story like that's like the text sure uh where basically elsa is just like uh-oh i think i'm actually connected to something that you know exists beyond me and she finds out that she's like uh like an indigenous person who like lives in where whatever fictional indigenous people live there whatever um and i think it was like that where it was like i knew something was wrong and if it turned out that nothing was wrong i could just move on with my life but it turned out something was wrong so now i have to go figure out what that is and now i have to figure out all this all these pieces all these painful pieces meet all these people like learn all these things about myself and like that's a lot more work

yeah than just you know living my life as if i had before yeah and so when people comment stuff like oh you're faking it that it's upsetting because they're denying your who you are yeah because it's just like listen i've i've earned this sure like i have suffered a lot to get here like this isn't just like a fun hobby for me or like a you know a foot like my my part-time job um you know it's it's part of my life and like it it's part of the process by which I heal myself and try to understand and preserve the important things about me that for a long time I've just sort of buried. And so when some random piece of shit is just like, I don't know anything about you, but

I'm going to ruin your fucking day. I'm just like, well, what if I ruined it back? And then we just kind of like go in circles for a while until I lose interest. Was this, I feel like the Elizabeth Warren of it all was the thing where people really focused on people suddenly like people are faking this or they i don't even know with elizabeth warren but i imagine when that happened it must have stirred up like that's that's what these people that's what these people commenters are saying yeah i mean like that's a oh that's like oh my god that's what these people commenters are saying yeah i mean like that's oh that's like oh my god that's like the third rail of native discourse is like yeah who uh it's it's who gets to hunt for people who are faking it and not and like who get like who's in charge of that

process and who isn't yeah and like there are people who are kind of famous who've made their name of finding these pretendians and like pretendians that is a brutal name pretendians that's a brutal there's also another word there's descendians which is people who are descendants but not descendants enough where they should claim oh and what is that is there a percentage is there a percentage or uh so that's so now we're getting into blood quantum which is like another thing um blood quantum is like it's it's every native person well not every native person because like some are disconnected they aren't aren't but the government actually issues certificates uh to native people uh declaring them a certain amount of native blood it's called a cdib it's a

certified degree of indian blood uh-huh which is wild that they do that for human human people um and use that you use that piece of paper to do what use that piece of paper to access certain benefits okay um so like in the state of michigan for example if you are a quarter you can get your college paid for. A quarter is hot. So what's that? Is that number fluctuate per state? Well, not all states allow that. Like, that's just a random benefit.

That's just one thing I know. Like, I don't know the whole list. You don't know the rules? I don't have the menu of, like, options. The way you know the age of consent in every state. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know that. But yeah, like, like my cousins for example like they have cdibs but like but i don't um because like my mom was more disconnected and so like because my mom doesn't have one so like she so i don't have one um but uh but like basically some people say that

once you get below a certain threshold of Indian blood, you should not be able to claim that you are native. But like that is colonialist and silly and nonsense. And like, it, it's not, it's something that most native people do not agree to. Because like,

like there's a great, there's a native comedian, Sienna East, who has a joke that's like native people, the only people where the more sex we have, the less of us we make. Cause like there, you know know the idea is that like well like if i like if i had children it'd be like well they're not they're nothing they might as well just be white sure sure i see that yeah oh so so in your mind is it is it that you you have to be more inclusive at the risk of

someone might exploit it. Ultimately with Elizabeth Warren, what was the conclusion? She's not native. Let me ask this. I'm glad we established that because I didn't know. I didn't look into it deeply. But I think my fear is that

I was going to be like, well, is she? And you'd be like well she said she is so fuck you like of course i'm i'm a big oh everyone this isn't a test like you're not gonna get it i don't know but so so tell me in your view uh why why okay so this is the other third rail of native discourse this is like it sounds like a lot of third rails it sounds very tricky it's oops all third rails okay so this is i'm gonna say i'm gonna say this is like to the native people listening to this i am not the reconnecting decider okay i'm not the person who decides this is just this is just me talking in in my belief people the native people are people who are connected and claimed by their communities with a big asterisk that some people don't get to be

connected and claimed by their communities because they're stolen or because of racism um or because of like other reasons like so because we can't just say like people who are claimed by their communities because like there are lots of black native like black natives who like aren't claimed by the communities or have been disenrolled and like you know genocide is obviously very complicated uh-huh uh and it's you know i think it like being native it's sort of like a it's the porno rule right like you kind of know when you see it it's like you know people who are reconnecting generally are repairing something that happened within living ish memory not always yeah but most of the time so like you know for example like you you might be repairing a connection because like you're you know you were

stolen or your parent was stolen or like your grandparent was sent to boarding school or some combination of those things. Yeah. Um, and so like Elizabeth Warren isn't native because like, you know, she has her, it's like,

she's not connected to the community. She, it's like a tiny little percentage from like a billion, trillion, gazillion years ago. Like it's not, you know, it native is sort of, it's like a verb a years ago. Like it's not, you know, it native is sort of,

it's like a verb a little bit. Like you kind of have to like be an active participant in it. It can't just be something you like throw out into the world. In your mind, had she lived differently? Could she have? No. Cause like she didn't have it.

It's like, it's not, you know, it's with reconnecting native, like reconnecting natives in a lot of instances are like missing family members. Like, you know, it's with reconnecting native like reconnecting natives in a lot of instances are like missing family members like you know they're or like their family you know it's it's not like her connection was far oh my god this is i'm this is how i lose my whole career i think most people are this is it is basically it is super complicated

you know it when you see it Elizabeth Warren is not native because like her it's not like she lives in like a native community or like she was removed from a native community forcefully or she was like or her or like her close relatives were sent to boarding school or like or removed

from their families like it's you know it it there are lots of like contingencies for like who can be native just in case something happens and like she doesn't fit any of those sure it just must be complicated because the same person you know getting really excited about uh elizabeth warren you're a liar you're not native might also coincide with the same people going to you and going like, well, you're not native either. Like those, like it's, it's like when that all happened, was it enraging?

Was it just like, cause I liked Elizabeth Warren at the, at the time before it became like a full on leftist and whatnot. But like, but like it was, it was one of those tough ones where you're like, ah, fuck.

I wish I wish I hadn't done that. Yeah. She should have done that. I mean, it's like, you know, it's tough, and the reason why I'm trying to speak so carefully is because, like, this is,

it's difficult, but I think I was, at the time, I was less, I think I, well, how can I put this? I was not as far along in this journey at that point. When that happened, I wasn't so far on the journey that I really understood kind of like how bad it was.

Like at the time I kind of looked at her situation and I was like, oh, you know what? They're going to say the same thing to me, even though like completely different situation. Of course. And so I think like when that happened i kind of got scared like i kind of got like a little worried like oh they're you know that i'm fake too you're right i am i am also a fake person and honestly wasn't until native people started coming to me and being like so are you gonna reconnect are you gonna like do that that i even thought it was an option i even that i even thought like i was going to be acceptable.

And, you know, that really, I benefit greatly from the fact that like I am already a public person and people will come to me and be like, I will help you with something as opposed to like other people who may not have like access. Of course, of course. But yeah, no. Oh my God. Yeah, it's who is native and who is not native is like welcome to the question of our time. Yeah, no. Oh my God. Yeah. It's, it's who is native and who is not native is like, welcome. Welcome to the question of our time. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

That'd be, that'd be a rough game show. And you're one of the competitors. I don't want to host. I don't want to host. I don't want to host, please. That's so, so how do you, how do you connect with it with it now it's it's it's got to be one of i i have a joke on stage about uh you there's like the founding of st louis there's a museum and it truly is like first there were native americans and then there weren't and it's like whoa this museum just totally yada yada you just you just watch and

there's some like moving like map of like all the all the native american communities that just get smaller smaller smaller and then and they don't you know america they're my my feeling is why are you teaching history unless you're ready to teach history there's no point in teaching people like kids like a cute version of history and then educating them later because not everyone gets the update and then suddenly they think Pocahontas has like a hint of truth

like Disney's Pocahontas and how do you think it should be taught to children given because you grew up in an american education system you you had the same education we had do you think that you you bring kids and you you tell them right out the gate do you think like we're going to talk about the founding of america later when we're ready to talk about this for real no we should talk about it out the gate like i think like when i was when i was a kid people used to say to me like my last name is cherico and people would say to me like oh

that's that's like cherokee because you're native right and it's like no it's how it works it's italian it just sounds like it yeah that's how it works you know and the thing is is like that that also happens to me now but people after that will be like oh I think that might have been racist the thing I just said it really is being like your name is Russell Daniels you're Danish right

I know a white girl named India crazy logic exactly right I think it would have made things easier because another thing i'm writing about is like you know i have a bit about the fact that like in the late 1700s uh george washington ordered the murder of my people um which is you know a tough place to start a bit from anyway but like you know most it's like the guy on the money is like you know fucking enemy

number one um and but like you know i think that so i think things would be easier for a lot of people if we just were honest out of the gate and we didn't like have to deprogram everyone later you know it's so fascinating we talk about this a lot it's so fascinating how um like precious or like how protective people are over weird historical figures that you don't know and are not related to. Because we've always said on this podcast, if they said tomorrow, we're changing the American flag, it's going to be this. Now I'd be like, okay, I don't care at all. If you told me we're taking down every single statue in America, I'd be like, don't care at all.

But if you told me that I had to, in order to get my paycheck every week, I had to say, George Washington sucks, I would do that. I don't care at all about any of these people. But I think there also is like, if America ever enters a war, Russell and I are

sneaking out. We are finding those Khabad tunnels and we are sneaking out. And there's a degree where like, as I try to see the full perspective, I go, the reason that they feel this need to make superheroes,

essentially, out of the founding fathers is because the government goes, we need a mass body of people willing to die. And religion used to be that thing. We used to have everyone be like, oh, you'll be willing to die for this religious cause to keep this government and keep the social order. And there's a loose thing with America where they're like, well, we need you to respect George Washington and the fable of democracy.

Because one day us rich people will need to sacrifice you poorer people to maintain our lifestyle. And that's why they're so determined to keep those statues up. Do you know what the word for George Washington is in the Seneca language? No. What? It's town destroyer. Oh my God. Brutal. It makes sense. Brutal. Doesn't surprise me. He was really good at it and you know actually why he got that nickname is because his great-grandfather was also town destroyer and when he came back they were like oh you're the descendant of that other guy who also did the town destroying uh-huh like let's call you the same name because you're you're functionally the

same thing to us yeah i would love i would i would call george washington town destroyer for the rest of my life. Every statue of it renamed Town Destroyer. If Mount Rushmore collapsed right now, I'd say that's probably good. Well, no, because Mount Rushmore is actually, so Mount Rushmore is actually... Wrong! Wrong!

Failed ally! Failed ally! Every time I talk to someone who isn't Native, I feel like I'm like the cop. I'm just like, actually, everything you know. Actually, the natives built that and they love it. It's their favorite statue ever. So it's actually a sacred spot and it was defaced when it was made under Mount Rushmore. Oh, okay. So yeah, I meant just have it be a mountain still. You might change it to faces of... And they didn't clean up the rubble

so all the rubble that they chiseled off is still at the bottom. So are... And they didn't clean up the rubble, so all the rubble that they chiseled off is still at the bottom. So are you saying they should just glue all the rubble back up? That's what I was saying. Glue all the rubble back,

make it look like a nice, pretty mountain again. Take away those faces. It's weird that we have a mountain face thing. Because you know if anyone defaced,

if someone wrote on the nose Town Destroyer, it'd be fucking everything. Oh, yeah. Everyone would have to pretend to care about this thing. So, but, I mean, you've seen, I mean, it is, and again, I don't have kids, so I don't have to worry about this stuff, really. But critical race theory became, like, the fucking talking point forever. became like the fucking talking point forever. And it's,

you just see how these people cling on to this myth that they need to hold on to. And that wasn't even for things about Native Americans. Like that was even, people aren't even ready to recognize those crimes or talk about them or how to talk about anything. People will comment to me on Twitter sometimes. They'll be like like well you guys lost so so what what are you mad about sometimes people lose wars and this is what happened so it's like yeah the denial is like it's very deep

so what would you do what's your history class you get to you get to so so okay what when do they teach us kindergarten first grade history. First grade, second grade. History throughout. You didn't want just one year of history. But second grade is where, I felt like second grade is where really like, in kindergarten they weren't talking that much. No, yeah, you're right. Second grade is when you start introducing the concept.

So second grade, we burst in there, we tie up the teacher. Why are we doing that? Yeah, let's do a felony. The teacher was bad. The teacher was bad. We're going to do this all in one day it's not a curriculum it's one day it's one day and you get not gonna work this what is this fucking like a clockwork orange school that we're putting together okay i don't know if it's like we're

gonna have a better school involves holding the hostage teacher and like saying this is what's really going on kids and then we have to teach for how long? This is a terrible heist. I don't want this job. You get one. You get to like, it's Zoom. One. Everyone's on Zoom.

We get to hack the Zoom. We get one second to talk to children directly. One second. One class. We'll say boobs. Just so that Janet Jackson can hear. Really fucked those kids up oh man

it doesn't feel like we're moving in the right direction no in the last couple years doesn't feel like I felt like the world was getting

more at least America was getting more progressive and it just feels like they fucking, those conservatives, they grabbed those reins and they got it back. No, I mean like.

It felt like we turned the lights on in a New York City apartment and you're like, oh my God, there's like lots going, like something happened where we can see a lot more of what was underneath the surface or something that we weren't seeing maybe as much. I don't know.

Something. I mean, but like y'all aren't allowed to give up. It's a thing. No, no, no, no.

I see. I feel like every time I talk, Russell's just like, how if I failed you this time? No, no, no, no,

no. I can tell that you're married because every time I talk to you, you're just like, oh, no. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. We'll keep fighting.

We'll keep fighting. We're going to blow up Mount Rushmore. That's why we started this podcast. You're going to glue the pieces back on Mount Rushmore. Don't blow it up. No, we can't blow it up. Mickey Horse Jumper, go. Wait, I have a dumb question.

Where is that? South Dakota. Interesting. Why did they pick that spot? That's where the mountain was. But there's many mountains. Do you know, like, why is the Grand Canyon in Nevada? Well, it's not.

It's in Arizona. I knew that story earlier. It's in multiple places, isn't it? No. It's just in Arizona. It's not a chain. I've never been. isn't it?

No, it's just in Arizona. It's not a chain. I've never been. I thought it was over many states. No, it's not that big. Well, I remember in Vegas Vacation,

they go to it in the movie, and they're, Vegas Vacation? Okay, okay. All right, well, history. Let's go on to our next segment this has got to stop this has got

to stop uh russell yeah um okay so white people when they um when they do when they do like the white any sort of white emoji like hand thumbs up i think we have to pick yellow like the like we have to pick the neutral one do you know what i mean even a person of color you're saying they can no i think for some reason it makes me uncomfortable when a white person picks out of their way it was out of their way to be like i'm white picking a white uh thumbs up or something i don't know why it makes me uncomfortable. I'm just telling you. Why are you uncomfortable with race? I'm uncomfortable with a white person saying I'm white, I think. There's like a pride

in it or something. There's something in it. Sometimes you say something and you're like, yeah, the conservatives, they're gonna go like, you see? He won't even say that he's white. See? But there is something where I'm like, just a yellow neutral. The neutral one, you know? Also, because I know one yellow neutral, the, the, the, the neutral one,

you know, also, cause I know one person, I know one person that does the, the white thing, but they, it's not, they,

they're white, but they use like a slightly darker shade of the, the thumbs up. And I want to say to them, you have to use the one all, you have to use the white one. That's real. If you can't like, you can't, you gotta use use the white one. That's real. You know what I mean?

You got to use the color that you are. You can't be like. You can't use the slightly darker one because you think you're Italian or something. You have to. Wait, but white comes in shades. No. If you're white, you have to use the furthest whitest one in the thumbs. That is a strong position to take. Okay, let me look at this.

Let me look at this. I'm going to tell you. If I started sending you a text that looked like this. Let me see it. Let me pull it up. Let me see how many colors actually. It's been so long. I don't generally use them at all. But like the hand clappies, for instance.

So if I used this one, John Marco, or this one one that's crazy that second one that second one that second one if you're a little bit italian is okay i don't know man i don't know either the person i'm with russell on this i think you gotta use that what are you using i use the yellow one because i'm lazy sure that's the other thing too that's the other thing too the yellow one i'm just saying it's the regular one that's there I think that it's like I guess once you've sought it out

it's in your things and you can reuse it but it is I feel like it's strange anyways I'm thinking of a very specific person it's not a lot of things I think I went through a phase and this was a long time ago where I was like I'll use the black one.

Just because I don't see color. I don't know. What? I just did it. That was a joke. But I'm just saying I did it. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

But you did use the black one? Just like for thumbs up. John Marco. Weird. No. I'm very uncomfortable with that. It was simply because it John Marco. Weird. No. But that's why. I'm very uncomfortable with that. It was simply because it was weird.

No. Yellow. Yellow. Use the yellow one. I think that those first two, one could be tan. Besides, when I come back from the beach, I would go, it's time to use the second one. What's the best case scenario, though? You use the black one. What's the best case scenario though you use the black one what's the best case scenario for you someone's like oh geez you know what we have what

what's the reaction what are you hoping for there it's just oh it doesn't it doesn't matter a black thumbs up is equal to a white thumbs up equality when do when are emojis necessarily us that's so that's what i'm saying i'm saying like it's more about the feeling of like got it and i don't need to be like got it and i'm white you know i mean like i i get that i'm just saying you just need the gesture but that's that's where my thinking was i was going got it and i'm not even recognizing a race it's just a just a hand it's the inverse of what you said. I don't know. You're saying you can't say you're white.

Don't say you're black. It's very confusing. Is it confusing? I just used the yellow one because it's the first one on the option. I think ultimately that's what I do too, and that's why maybe it's just my bias. I like the yellow one. We're all on the same page. Sometimes I get a text that's like,

I guess you are white. You know what I mean? You should write that back. Yeah, I got your white. We get it. You're white. When someone sends you a picture of their child, are you like, we get it.

White baby. White baby, we get it. White baby. White baby. Gross. Gross. My this has got to stop. Whenever there's something going on in the world, as there always is to some degree, I feel like people struggle with like, well, my social media. Someone recently, and it was like a model

or something comes back and goes like social media is complicated but i think i'm going to keep posting again because i know that my social media inspires people and moves people and there's a degree where it's like yes but it's also your business like we get it i think we understand more and more sometimes your social media it's you being your activist or trying to do something or raising money. But then sometimes you have to continue with your career. And in the same way, we don't go up to a deli and go, why are you still selling food today? You should be making – your chef should be out front making a statement. I think we're beginning to understand.

We're beginning to understand. Should we be spelling I'm sorry in deli meat? Exactly, though. We're all waiting to hear where you stand on this. And I'd rather than the post of like, I know things are bad. I've decided my content of me in a bikini is inspirational to people. That's disingenuous to me. And it's like asking to be absolved of the complex nature of you are a person living in

America, choosing to continue living your life while expressing your activism. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me in saying these pictures are now i reflected on it and posting my most viable tweets is important and so it's important you gotta you gotta keep working you gotta keep working and people respect that too like i just say like hey listen i already this is this brand deal was scheduled before i gotta just post it people people get it like you know yeah the fourth wall has been broken on yeah yes yeah and i i just like that more than just like i just can't stand the the the phone oh i need to get back to this because it's important i need to get back to it because this is my job

and this is what i chose and i'm sorry if it's weird but but don't say it's it's meaningful if if i released a podcast, I was like, I know September 11th 2 happened today. But like, we really, you got to hear our thoughts on Janet Jackson. I know it really cheers some people up that are depressed to hear that riff. Do you have this got to stop?

I do have this got to stop. I hate it when people uh make chicken pot pies that are not pies like i hate all chicken pot pie recipes where it's just the crust on top it's a chicken pot pie it's not a soup with a hat it's a full fucking commit to the pie don't say it's a fucking i don't want a soup with a hat i want a pie yeah i want a bottom give me the bottom maybe the top problem is we don't have a term for a soup with a hat which we should feels easy enough we make we have every kind of pastry people are making it all the time people are making those soup hats all the time no so there should be a term for it. It's a scam.

Because I think there's going to be a full pie there and I crack it open and it's just a soup with a fucking hat. It should be called a scam. Scam. Because it's like where the coyote runs into the fake tunnel. It's like, oh, it's a pie. Yeah. No bottom. No bottom, no sides. It's just

soup. I hear that. I hear that. I don't have a lot of chicken pot pies, but I'm always intrigued. Because pies are too sweet for me. I like the crust more. Chicken pot pies are too sweet for you? No, no, no. I'm saying like pies. I'm saying like pies.

So I like a savory pie. Got it. And there's not a lot of – I don't see savory pies just willy-nilly out in the wild. And I would like more savory pies. I mean, I love chicken pot pies yeah like and i i i eat a lot of them which i feel like goes without saying but like i just feel like you got to commit to the craft yeah of the pie if you want to make the pie like don't is there a store a restaurant a chain where you're like oh you got to get where you're going to get your chicken

costco makes incredible chicken pot pies. Really? Costco makes a fantastic... I've been eating it since I was a kid. Wow. But only in certain seasons. So we're in the season of chicken pot pies right now. Chicken pot pie season? Yeah, it's pot pie season. It's winter.

You're not going to have it in July. I'm not having a 4th of July chicken pot pie. Why? Why not? I'm so mad. You're so dumb about food sometimes. Because you don't like food and you don't know... Do you not like food? I so mad. You're so dumb about food sometimes. Because you don't like food, and you don't know it. Do you not like food?

I love food. You're not intuitive. What do you mean I don't like food? You just don't know it because you're depriving yourself. Explain to me why chicken pot pie not in the line. It's a hearty meal that you eat when you're cold. Okay? You eat it.

It's warming up the house. There's snowing outside. You're not going to go. And the height of summer, 95 degrees, you're going to eat a chicken pot pie? You're going to sit outside in a chicken pot pie? No one eats hot things in summer. All you eat is ice cream in summer. You eat a hot dog in summer, that's hot.

No, you have to. It's a hearty hot dog. No, it's a chicken pot pie. A chicken pot pie is basically the food version of a mother's love. You need that less in the summer than I think the winter. Also, a hot dog is to go. You're moving. You're outside at a barbecue.

You're doing things. Chicken pot pie, you got to sit down with a thing. You're sitting and you're inside in a sweater. You might be like a little mouse who lives in a log. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm understanding.

Okay. I didn't know you didn't like food, though. That's fun for you. No, I like food. I eat a lot of food. I enjoy food. He likes carrots. My dog likes carrots.

You remember the Larry David debate? There was a current enthusiasm for Larry David. And what's the guy's name? He said he likes food more. He said, I like food more because I savor it. I savor it. And then Jeff argued that he's fat, so he likes food more. He's like, well, you fucking eat anything.

And Larry goes, I'm specific. Yeah, but you tell me you don't know when chicken pot pie season is. It tells me you don't know nothing about food. You look like someone who wouldn't know when chicken pot pie season is. Let's go to our final segment. You better count your blessing. You better count your blessing. Russell, do you have a blessing?

I'm looking for one. Yeah, you know what? I'm really grateful for, and it's always something going on, but it's been like, sometimes I remember it, and I'm like, I'm really grateful for, and it's always something going on, but it's been like, sometimes I remember it, and I'm like, I'm really thankful for this. I never hear from my neighbors across the hall. Never hear from them.

And when I see them, they're lovely. But I never hear them. I never run into them. But then when I do, it's nice. And the people below me, they only come to New York two or three times a year so never see them either so i'm never worried and something about me is you know i like i i like music i like things so i'm never having to worry about my sound kind of output and that's a nice thing because i've

gone you know sometimes i've gone other places and been like oh it's too loud or blah blah or we can hear you like and it's like oh i never have to worry in my home base about that and not not like i'm throwing raves at 4 a.m but you know what i mean like just a loud comer yeah that's mainly what i'm concerned about yeah but the people below me and the cross hall the it's like never a thing so it's been i i'm very thankful for that because i i forget it and then it's like oh i i do there's a safety in that and also because sometimes you go to someone else's house and uh they're they're very concerned about like oh you know and it's nice to like not have that concern i think about when i was a musical theater kid and i'm like and I wasn't a full realized adult and realized how my actions had impacts, like the people who had to live next to me.

Oh, yeah. And I'm warming up some days. Certain phase of my life. And I'm like, they should have been mad. Yeah. They were fair. Yeah. Oof.

Yeah. You doing scales? You doing? Not scales. No. If I'm warming up, I'm just singing whatever I would be singing in the show full voice lessons oh no no no um it's usually in the shower uh my blessing i was in uh uh tampa a little while ago but i my opener liam nelson he's been open to me for for a while and uh we have i feel like we have gone into a really good rhythm of like – sometimes I get very lonely on these weekends.

I mean it's a brutal life. But we have become closer and I'm like I want to do activities. Like let's figure out an activity. I'll pay for it. I'll cover it. And then we'll go do something that feels like an experience. And I feel like we're now kind of on the same page and we both, it wasn't that big, but we did smoke cigars and I never smoked cigars

and he taught me how to smoke a cigar and it was a lot of fun. We went to a really great cigar bar and I think I like cigars now. I wrote you right after. I said, we gotta get cigars. You like cigars. I don't.

I like a cigarette when I'm drunk. Let me tell you, this cigar that I got there, it was like he took me to the mild section, and the tip was dipped in sugar cane, so it was like a little candy. Every time you put it in your mouth, it was like a little sweet treat, and it was a lot of fun.

Yeah. I'm going to get us some. I like the aesthetic and the idea of sitting around smoking a cigar, but I never enjoy it when I'm doing it. Looking at this movement, it's called Sugar Lips. Okay. It's called Sugar Lips. We're going to get it.

So that's my blessing. Liam Nelson, great opener. Sugar Lips. Great comic. Do you have a blessing? I do have a blessing. I am, you know what? I'm going to shout out my little stand-up girl group i'm in like a

little group i'm in a group in la with like a bunch of female stand-ups who are like a very diverse wonderful group of girls uh and they are so funny and so fun and so encouraging. And, um, I feel like I wouldn't have taken the leap. Um, because I think for a long time I was just like, I don't want to deal with men. Uh, and like this sort of like took that away from that,

like remove that as an excuse for me. Uh, and yeah, and like, it really, it like changed my life. It changed the trajectory of my life

and my career and I am really appreciative to them so I'm just shouting them out. Nice. Do you guys do shows, you just like meet up

to write or you do shows together? We have like a, we have like a class we do like once a week and then we all go to each other's shows. That's nice.

Yeah, it's really cute. It's nice to go to other people's shows. Yeah. I've gone to so to each other's shows. That's nice. Yeah, it's really cute. It's nice to go to other people's shows. Yeah. I've gone to so many other people's shows. It's tough to have performer friends, man. There's just...

I love going to people's shows. We've known each other a long time. How often do you want me to go? I see you multiple times a quarter. That's not true. Multiple times a quarter that's not true multiple times a quarter i i'd say you see me do stand-up once to two times a year no tell me the last three times you see me do stand-up so i go with the seller uh-huh and i saw you um well uh exactly no but i can't remember but I know that I've seen you I see the big I wanted to go to your taping

My dad sees me more than you No I see you in all the big things Alright I'll come more Russell has three full time jobs I went to the cellar A couple times and you performed I didn't watch it but I was there

In the restaurant You went to the cellar but you didn and you performed i didn't watch it but i was there in the like restaurant while you were performing you went to the cellar but didn't see john marcus what was with tova we had one time i think it's just one of those things like you you're you you do you do some but you have certain friends where you're like man they haven't seen me in four years that is a lot yeah I see you a couple times a year. Yeah. You see me a couple times a year. I've seen you more than you've seen me.

No. I'm keeping count. What? You've seen me three times? We've got to end this. Gutenberg. Okay. Titanic, twice. Okay.

I didn't make you come that second time. It's not about make. It's not about make. It's about want. It's about need. Okay. So you have three. you have three you need i'm gonna and i have two when when can you okay i'm gonna see you again when why at the thing the thing that you're gonna announce eventually i told you not to i'm going to and you're you're gonna go no but you're gonna feel good and you're gonna feel some okay well i'll see you before that. We'll be even.

Okay. Oh, I was just pulling up when this comes out. I'm going to go to like six shows in one week and just get it all out of the way. For the rest of your life. We're done for the rest of your life. We're done. We're done until 2026.

Just binge watching Tom Harkin. This is coming out January 23rd. What would you like to plug? What would I like to plug? You know what? Just follow me on Instagram. It's Kristen Cherico. Come see my shows.

I live in LA. I perform in LA. Eventually, I will not do that. But for now, come say hi to me. Whenever someone comes to a show and knows me from the internet, I always say hi, take a picture. People are afraid to come up to me. Don't be afraid afraid i'm not scary it's gonna be fine so yeah hell yeah russell uh you have five days left to go see gutenberg and say hi um um i'll have some other

announcements coming up soon but uh we announced uncle function yet oh yeah in march no it's may may may uncle fun he's gonna we have a show we have a show in march you and i the downside you've heard yes so follow me on instagram at russell j daniels everyone in los angeles russell is coming for our first his first and my first downside live in los angeles in los Los Angeles this is on March 14th what the fuck did they put it in wrong I swear it's the 14th March 14th

Hollywood Improv 730 show tickets we kept tickets I think they're just 10 bucks cause you gotta get the drinks yeah

but we're gonna have a big guest get it it's a small room we wanna sell it out Hollywood Improv what who are we getting I have some.

I'm going to ask Pete first. Okay. Pete Holmes. Great. We'll see. I know you'll listen, Pete. Just text me back when you're done listening to this. It will be very good.

There's lots of people in LA that we don't see. It'll be a good time. So go see that. This particular weekend, shit, I closed it, but i believe i will be in here we go tacoma comedy club probably sold out by this point but then i will be in spokane not sold out for sure and uh then i'll be ontario improv february 1st irvine improv january 31st seattle and then punchline sacramento february 8th through 10th. Check it out. Join the Patreon,

patreon.com slash downside. We got a bunch of live shows coming up in New York. We got that one in LA. We're trying to get some other ones coming up. So just tell your friends about the podcast.

We are growing. We are thriving. And listen, you ever see Mount Rushmore? You fucking... Get some glue. Get some glue. Get some glue.

Get to gluing. Get to gluing. Get to gluing get to gluing get to gluing this is the downside 1, 2, 3 downside downside you're listening to

the downside the downside with John Marco Cerezi