The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #186 Mockery of Mathematics with Sridhar Ramesh

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

Mathematician (and comedian!!!) Sridhar Ramesh joins us to share the downsides of growing up in New Jersey (and why people should stop asking where in Jersey), fulfilling his reputation as the class genius, and the heckler that almost ruined his thesis defense.  Gianmarco and Russell also discuss why the hell Deborah Messing is following the podcast’s Instagram account and they make Sridhar do some math on the fly. You can watch full video of this episode HERE! Join the Patreon for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and MORE. Follow Sridhar on Twitter, @RadishHarmers Follow The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi on Instagram Get tickets to our live podcast recording in NYC on March 4 here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/744000544657?aff=oddtdtcreator OR come to our first live podcast recording in LA on March 14! https://www.ticketweb.com/event/the-downside-with-gianmarco-soresi-hollywood-improv-the-lab-tickets/13295123 Follow Gianmarco Soresi on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, & YouTube Subscribe to Gianmarco Soresi's email & texting lists Check out Gianmarco Soresi's bi-monthly show in NYC Get tickets to see Gianmarco Soresi in a city near you Watch Gianmarco Soresi's special "Shelf Life" on Amazon Follow Russell Daniels on Twitter & Instagram E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Paige Asachika & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Dave Columbo Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by A Real Pain. From Searchlight Pictures comes one of the buzziest films at Sundance Film Festival, A Real Pain. Written, directed, and starring Oscar nominee Jesse Eisenberg alongside Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin. Witness a hilarious and moving story about two mismatched cousins as they tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. See a real pain only in theaters, November 15th. Are you hot coffee?

I'm a hot coffee guy. Yeah. I mean, hot weather, cold weather, any weather you, I don't know. I like it hot.

Yeah. Hot. Yeah. I get mixed. Some like it hot. Wow. Great. That is a movie.

RIP. It was probably just closed. Oh, just closed. But it's based. It's a movie. Great. That is a movie. R.I.P. It was a Broadway show. It was just closed. Oh, just closed. But it's a movie. Yeah. Something Like It Hot? Yes.

Yeah. Is that like a famous movie? Movie turned Broadway musical. Yeah. With Jack Lemmon, right? Jack Lemmon. Yeah, yeah. You're fucking with me, right?

I'm not an old movie buff. Oh, oh. I remember watching it. When I was like an actor, I was like, let me watch the classics. Yeah. All right. And I was like, it's fine. Yeah. Who's the other person? Is it Shirley MacLaine? I don watching it. When I was an actor, I was like, let me watch the classics. Yeah. And I was like, it's fine. Yeah.

Who's the other person? Is it Shirley MacLaine? I don't know. Shirley MacLaine. You've got to be fucking with me. You've got to be fucking with me. You're like, you went to acting school and stuff. I don't know.

I wish I just went to film school so I just watched all the movies. Yeah. That would have been a better investment, film school, than acting school. Yeah. I tried when I was younger to do, like, you know, when AFI first put out that list in the 90s. Of course. Of course. I tried to do like, I tried to get to a lot of them.

But sometimes you get to some and you're like, I just can't get through this one movie. You know? Citizen Kane was always number one. I've never seen Citizen Kane. I was like, in my life, I'm always like, I'm saving it. But I don't know when. I'm going to die before I see it. I mean, I have not seen it yet.

Have you seen The Godfather? Oh, yeah, many times. Godfather's one. My girlfriend hasn't seen The Godfather. Oh, okay. And that's one of those where I feel that, like, come on. Stereotypical, like, man versus woman thing. Like, men like it and women...

She's like, have you seen Eat, Pray, Love? I'm like, no, I don't watch that shit. Yeah. Do you know what movie I had? It was my favorite movie growing up that, like, no, I don't watch that shit. Do you know what movie I had? It was my favorite movie growing up that, like, I think during COVID or a few years ago, I was like, oh, I haven't watched this movie since I was a kid. And I watched and I wept for humanity. It was E.T.

E.T.? I watched that movie so much when I was a kid. It was the strangest experience watching it where i the whole time watching it as an adult like i felt like i was like time traveling back to being a little kid like i and i i was like this whole movie it was just like it was like elliot is so kind and sensitive and it's just like oh sensitive people aren't meant for this world it just was like that's who you identified with? I don't know.

Something about it was theory. You know who I identified with? The government official who said, we need to take care of this shit. Get that fucking weird thing. This could have COVID whatever in it. We need to kill it. Oh, God. It goes six feet under the ground.

Well, one of the downsides, this is an old movie review podcast where we recollect movies from the 80s and 90s. The director, Steven Spielberg. This is a place where we can be negative, we can complain. I realize sometimes we have to make a little intro for people who don't, who are just tuning in now, who are

big fans of our guests, and then they just tune in now, they have no idea what's going on. My name's DeMarcus Terezi. This is my old friend, Russell Daniels. Not that old. Not that old. Like old when I hear old, it means like high school. Oh, yeah.

I mean, like 2015. We're adult friends. We've been friends in our adulthood. We're friends for now. Yeah. Yeah. Good end. It could.

It could. I would be a darn shame if it did. Yeah, it would. It would be hard for me to imagine not being your friend I think The fear that I have is If you move To New Orleans

I would move full time Do you notice anything different about me? Some friend you turned out to be Wow Did you get a piercing what i talked about it on the last podcast i thought it'd be a fun little easter egg what i painted one of my nails oh my god i just saw it it's horrifying so i just thought it'd be fun i we talked so uh page was our our other producer was here. And she talked about how she put it in the full Gen Z way phrasing.

She said, being female, identifying publicly, meant that you could change your outfit. And I was like, I've always wanted to do one nail. And everyone went, ugh. And I said, what's this toxic masculinity? Do all nails. So I did one nail. And it's impossible.

It's on my finger. It's all over my other hand. It looks like you hit your hand with a hammer. It looks like it's going. It's on my finger. It's all over my other hand. It looks like you hit your hand with a hammer. It looks like it's going to fall off. It's a black nail, you fucking weirdo. I went through a golf phase in high school, and I liked black nails, but I realized when I was going to do one,

I was like, well, then it looks like you just hurt yourself, so I got the sparkly kind. And I think, I mean, it was dirt cheap. How long are you keeping that on? You're going to do shows like that? It's tough to go to the comedy cellar. Exactly. Being around comics keeps my femininity in a little bit of check.

Yeah, and also you have to mention it right off the top. I know. You know? You can't just do that. I've got to come up with a bit. I mean, it would have been fine when you were coming up, rising in the ranks of comedy. You always were one-nail boy. But you can't just start it without talking about it a little bit more.

Coming out as a one-nail boy. This should be like one of the letters in the LGBTQIA2 plus one. When I first started stand-up, very embarrassingly, I wore a scarf. Oh. I wore a scarf, and I would take it off, put it on the mic stand. Oh, wow. God. And you were there for all of this.

I don't remember that. You didn't stop me. And, you know, it was bad. And my sister explained to me, because she works in fashion, she explained to me, this is the way what convinced me to stop wearing it, because I would wear it with T-shirts. And she explained to me, is the way what convinced me to stop wearing it. Because I would wear it with t-shirts. And she explained to me, functionally, it feels wrong because you wear a t-shirt

when it's warm. A scarf when it's cold. And that's what changed my mind. And I hung up the scarf for good. I don't remember that phase. Once a host said, they mocked me for the scarf. And then when I... Oh no, he was a mocked me for the scarf. And then when I...

Oh, no, he was a comic. I was the host. And then when I came up after him, something... Next up, we've got Meryl Streep. Isn't she Scarflady? No, what a kind roast. Next up, one of the greatest hosts of all time. No, he said something about, you know, gay.

And then I went up, I said, he's just mad because he could never afford something as nice as this to hang himself with. You got him. Oh, wow. You got him. Suicidal. Oh, my God. Poor suicidal man. We're here with our guest, Sridhar Ramesh

That's acceptable Thank you It is Sridhar Ramesh Actually I mispronounced it just then too Because Sridhar Ramesh Very easy to screw up There was a thing It was on Ellen

Where Hasan Minhaj went on And I think Ellen said Min Ellen where Hasan Minhaj went on. I think Ellen said Minhaj. Hasan Minhaj. He called her out right there. I also don't actually care. It's only because I have an Italian name. I'm sure. Is it the same spelling as

Nicki Minhaj? Did you just make Nicki Minhaj Indian? Nicki Minhaj? Nicki Minaj? Do they spell? No, it's not spelled the same. It's different. It has an H in it, which is how.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. You just start pronouncing every name. Nicki could be like Nikki Haley. That's an Indian. Yeah.

Yeah. What was her birth name that Trump keeps going on? It's Nimritha, I think. Yeah. Nimritha, I don't remember her maiden name, but yeah. Wait, so did you change your name at all? Because on your Twitter, it's, what is it on Twitter? It's normally Shreether Ramesh.

Right now, I have it as riverboat no but it also says it's as a d is the d a th it's a d h but yeah the d is uh uh actually that's not what the h and it means so the d is the that's just like uh i don't know how south indians pronounce their d's i guess uh they're dentalized. Do you have a South Indian impression? No. If you really have a distinctively South Indian versus North Indian impression, I will be so impressed. I'm sure you don't have any. I think the impressions...

There's a while where if you were white, there was no, don't do any other race impression. I feel like I've seen more and more. I'm like, oh, the temperature might be changing on this. I'm glad if the temperature is changing. What are you seeing? I saw, it was like Matt Friend. Okay.

He does a lot of impressions, and he was doing like a montage. And it was just like three black politicians in a row. It's pronounced montage. This is the downside. One, two, three. Downside. You're listening to The Downside. The Downside.

With Gianmarco Cerezi. So welcome to The Downside. I started an intro and immediately abandoned it. My name's Gianmarco. This is my friend slash co-worker slash former member of Shows Together, Russell Daniels. This is coming out after his Broadway show closed. He performed it four times after Josh fell off that ladder with three days left in the run to go.

Putting it down in the atmosphere. Wow. Get you back up there, buddy. Thanks, buddy. He's on Broadway, understudying Broadway. Understudying all of Broadway. You're a swing, a full swing. My name's Marcus Rezzi.

This is a place where we can complain, where we have people on where they don't need to brag or be thankful. They can just be mean and sad and depressed and hopefully funny. And that's why, speaking of, this next guy, rarely I have people on that I've never met before,

but I've been such a fan of your work. And I thought you did stand-up, and I was like, eventually our paths will cross. I know you have done stand-up in the past and maybe the future, but you also have many talents. Sridhar Ramesh. Thank you for having me. Every time I try a new swing.

Fantastic comedian, mathematician, or logician. Logician. Oh, I'm impressed that you draw that distinction, but yes, or logician. Logician. Oh, I'm impressed that you draw that distinction, but yes, that's correct. Sure, sure. I did my research as best as I could. But we're happy to have you here. I know Russell's in a good mood because today would have been the anniversary of Roe v. Wade, but you got what you wanted, and it's no longer.

People were... People were... People were... It was so thoroughly canceled that it's not even the anniversary of Roe v. Wade anymore. It was a strange... But they have, when I say they, the DNC, which is desperate to stop what feels like a movable force, are bringing it up today to say this would have been the day.

Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 51st. Wow. That's a precedent. 51st. Is it the 51st anniversary? Huh.

I think so. I would have thought I would have heard more about the, I mean, I believe you. I just would have thought I would have heard more about the 50th anniversary. You only follow far right. Yeah. Far right. Yeah. Far right. So deep left.

The horseshoe, it comes back around. We're recording this a little bit early is what I'm saying. This calendar is up to date. I'm working this calendar behind Russell's shoulder. It does say January 15th. We're recording this now because I am currently on the West Coast doing shows. Yeah. And so we shouldn't get too topical.

It's January 22nd. Is it? Yeah. Wait, it is January 22nd. You thought it was January 15th? The calendar is a week off. No, I just. Oh, my God.

In my head, you were doing some correction for when this is airing. Not only is it airing in the future, we're recording in the past. We're doing a full Inception style. Lots going on. Let's see. Anything happen to me? I was in Florida. Debra Messing followed our downside account.

We don't know why. We don't know why. Debra Messing. She's the really Zionist one, right? Yes, I think she prefers Will and Grace as her credit. But we don't know how she found us. Zionist one, right? Yes, I think she prefers Will and Grace as her credit. You don't know how she found us. If she doesn't have... This one's for you, Deb.

We've been speaking our views on the whole situation. That's kind of, you know, I'm pro-Palestinian, he's pro-Israel. Odd couple. Stop. No, no, no. So we've been saying some things, but not like, I don't know if we've talked about Debra. For her to follow us,

it doesn't make any sense. We have not, this is the first time we're saying her name, I think, on the podcast. You can cut out my saying anything of that. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. This is not for.

No, no, no. Did you just abandon your political views for the name of my podcast? Yeah, for Debra Messing anything. We're not becoming, this is, we're not treating it like. Debra Messing likes us

and we change all our political beliefs. We change them all. We're like, we gotta hold on to this. I'm just curious what clips she saw to follow us. She's not one of these accounts like I think Obama follows me because he follows 200,000. I think you know one of those.

Debra's only following 4,000 people on Instagram which is not that much. I don't know why. it's it can't be good no i think she's keeping an eye on us i think i think she heard i was gonna be on the podcast oh maybe maybe um is it true that you got that because i was wearing a sweater uh i heard this on another podcast about, it was the Miami Boys Choir, which my girlfriend likes a lot. And weren't you the one who got, you said you got in some kind of flack because they're a boy. They're a Jewish young boy group. Oh, they're the Orthodox Jewish boys. I believe so.

I believe Orthodox. Yeah. Yeah. Or like more specifically Hasidic or something. I forget. But yes, I made a tweet once about this group, and I got in a lot of trouble. What did you say?

It was around the time of this New York Times article had come out about the yeshivas in the Hasidic community here in New York where they had really bad scores in math and English. And it was just, there was a Rolling Stones tweet that I was responding to. Not Rolling Stones, what am I saying? The Rolling Stone magazine.

Sure. And they had said something like, you might not think that a group of young Orthodox Jewish boys could sing, but check out the Miami school, whatever, boys. I love that thought. Why would he phrase it like that? You see a group of young Orthodox Jews, you're like, bet they can't sing. Bet they can't sing.

Actually, no, I'm being a little bit, I'm misremembering. You might not think they could capture the hearts of TikTok with their singing. Oh, okay. That's even more specific, though. Like, hey, you see those boys over there? Yeah. They could never capture the heart of TikTok through song. They will go viral on tiktok anyway so i quote tweeted and i said i have no problem

thinking they could do that what i don't think they could do is uh read or math uh so read or do and so as you can imagine a number of people were unhappy with a number of people liked it but a number of people were unhappy with it. And like the head of one of the yeshivas was quote tweeting me and accusing me of being a force for anti-Semitism

and I don't know, it got in trouble. The Jews, we got to have a meeting, all of us together. We got to really come up with some hard lines of what qualifies

as anti-Semitism and what qualifies as meaningful critique. I don't, it's out of control. I mean, I've never seen, you know when you see,

as like a white person when the race card, you feel like it might be being played, in general, I go, well, you get to play

the race card. We played it for the first 2,000 years to shore. And then once in a while while it's very on the nose And someone calls it out But it's one of these rare things where as a Jew I can be like, guys, come on, come on

I mean, they actually did have poor scores Like, I'm not making this up And we run the scoring system So that's even worse. You have been around lots of Jews, though. You grew up in New Jersey? That is correct, yes. Yes.

Good. This is like a game show. I take guesses, and you give me points based on how accurate my research was. No, it's true. When I was growing up, like, I know Elon Musk just said something like two-thirds of his friends are Jews, but it's true that when I was growing up, like, two-thirds of his friends are Jews. But it's true that when I was growing up, two-thirds of my friends were Jews. You're a mathematician, so you calculated it.

That's right. I had three friends, and two of them were Jews. And you made a new friend. You had to kick one of the Jews out. Yeah, I had to maintain a very strict ratio, exactly. So where in New Jersey? Because I don't know New Jersey that well. so so what where in new jersey because i don't know new jersey that well i'm wondering if your producer told you what my uh uh this has got to stop oh no no they haven't they haven't literally

my this is gonna stop was every time i tell people i'm from new jersey they want to know where in new jersey i'm bing bing bing bing maybe that's a new version of the show do i hit that this has got to stop? I had backup this has got to stop. Good, good, good. Let's explore that one. But it's just a matter of polite conversation. No, it is.

But it's also I explained in great detail what happens. So I'll tell you. I'm from Union County. Uh-huh. And I'm from a city in Union County called New Providence. But every time, like I tell people I'm from a city in Union County called New Providence. But every time, like I tell people if I'm from New Jersey, they always want to know. And then I go through this long thing. And then, I mean, I've preempted it now, so it won't happen. But it'll be like, they don't know anything about the place I just mentioned. It's a waste of time. And then they'll tell me about some city in New

Jersey that they've been to or one of their family members is from or something. Sure. And I won't know anything about that fucking place. And so we just waste, you know, like 10 minutes talking about New Jersey and not connecting. And why did they even think they would know anything about the place in New Jersey? Sure.

Because I've never been there, but I happen to Hoboken. Yeah. And I've done a lot of shows in Hoboken. Yeah. And do you know Hoboken well I I do happen to know Hoboken you do not see that I'm doing exactly what you said I know I'm just I'm letting it slide no no no tell me tell me about that part of New Jersey I'll go deeper New Providence okay New Providence oh Meryl Streep came up she is from the city right next to me

Summit New Jersey uh that's sad you got a list of celebs from the city next door. Is it near the Jersey Shore at all or no? Not really, no. No. Jersey Shore is more south. Yeah. So again, you're mentioning a place in New Jersey that has nothing to do with where I'm from. Yeah.

So tell me about it, though. What was it like? What kind of? It's, you know, it's like suburban. I don't know. How do you describe it? I imagine a lot of suburban America is the same, but my only experience of it is New Jersey.

Do they have a specific type of thing that they're known for? Like a lot of people who do this work here or live here. A lot of people who become Meryl Streep. Jim Cramer is also from that same city. Do you know Jim Cramer, Mad Money? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's also, I think he lives there now in New Jersey. How does he still have a job?

Yeah, I don't know. He's incorrect about everything. He's an idiot. I'm sure he's been correct on some stuff. Okay, sure, I guess I should. But the people he's incorrect about, I'm surprised they haven't murdered him yet. Yeah, I don't know.

I guess once you reach a certain level of success, it's hard to lose your job. he's incorrect about, I'm surprised they haven't murdered him yet. Yeah, I don't know. I guess once you reach a certain level of success, it's hard to lose your job. Tova's getting into stocks. Why is it called mad money? Oh,

well, his whole shtick is, yeah, exactly. He's like boiling over with rage. It's not like crazy. It's like,

he's mad. He's not, yeah, he's angry. He thought that this whole thing is like, don't trust this guy. He's mad.

Don't listen to what he says. Um, Tova's, Tova's, uh, getting into stocks? Exploring it. He's mad. Don't listen to what he says. Tova's exploring it. Buy, sell, trade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, who's Tova? Oh, sorry.

My girlfriend. Oh, I see. She's a manager. And she's getting all her wisdom. Listen, when I say from TikTok, no, even better or worse or the same, TikTok. And I feel like people would judge that, but Jim Cramer is probably just as, but I think she's good deeply at recognizing like where things are shifting. Okay.

She's a comedy manager. Right. And I think she just has like an intuitive, can grasp bigger picture things. And so I think she's doing well. Really? It makes me nervous that she's just going to. How long has she been doing this? I think just like a month. Oh, okay picture things. And so I think she's doing well. Really? It makes me nervous that she's just going to... How long has she been doing this? I think just like a month.

Oh, okay, okay. You doing the stocks? No, no. I mean, I have stuff in like an index fund. I don't actively do anything. I have it in the fucking, I think it's like the S&P 500. And every time I go on, it looks like it's just gone down. Yeah.

And I go, I don't know. All my retirements. Do you look at the stock where you go, I don't know. All my retirements. Do you look at the stock market and you go, ow. No, but I look at my retirement thing, and it's like, sometimes you're like, oh, my God. How's this going down? Where'd all that Titanic money come from? It's crazy that the way we're expected to live in old age is to just hope that this gamble on the stock market. I know.

Why is that the system? Yeah. I just like... My person just says, well, if you put it in this, it generally, it goes up. Eventually, it all goes up. Yeah.

And I'm like, forever? This doesn't seem like how the world works. I don't know... Okay, so you're in math. Right. So explain it all to us because I don't understand how we've built a world around the stock market.

It does seem real. We're going to explain the stock market? Well, listen, just not long. Just do it as quick as possible. I like that you think as a mathematician, I know the historical factors. I just don't understand why we've built our civilization around it and something so meaningless. That's a huge question. That's a course in college.

I don't know. I just wanted to give you the easy version. Something like along, you know. I agree with you. That's a huge question. That's a course in college. I don't know. I just wanted to give you the easy version. Something like along, you know. No, but I agree with you. It's crazy. I don't have any more insight into it than you do. It's like the people with money designed the world to suit their, you know. Yeah.

It's not good. There's no way it's like we made this. Yeah. Because it helps spread the wealth. Yeah. Okay. Let's get into the math. All right.

Okay, so you're very smart. You're smarter than both of us. Whoa, you watch your tongue. Yeah, exactly. You just have to explain the stock market to me. This guy knows so much about old movies. You know, Meryl Streep. Yeah, Jack Lemmon.

Yeah. You know, Meryl Streep. Yeah. Jack Lemmon. Yeah. Were you always – you are – for math, sometimes I'm like, are you good at math? Are you a genius? Do you consider yourself a genius?

I don't consider anybody a genius. Oh, come on. Don't be modest. Don't be modest about humanity. You know you're smart. How would you describe your intelligence? I would say I am good at math. Yes, I am good at math.

You were always good at math. From an early age, yeah, yeah. And you like it. I like it, yeah, yeah. Wouldn't that be awful if you were, I guess it's what Goodwill hunting or something. Yeah. You were a great mathematician and you did not care about it. You were just forced into it.

When you, like, do you remember the moment? Was it in kindergarten? No, I do remember actually. Yeah, I do remember. Well, there's a couple of things. You're about to ask me how I became interested in math or something, right? That's the question. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just, I'm also curious because this is the downside, what it's like to be really intelligent at something, going through school. Sure. What did you skip? Right.

Yeah, I want to get into that meat. We don't need to talk about your love of numbers. Okay. You know? But, yeah. So, wait. Exactly what's the question again? When did you first realize that you were smarter than many of your peers?

Oh, okay. your peers? Oh, okay. Well, it started off as kind of a false reputation that I had, which is that in first grade, I never liked, I mean, my whole life, I never liked doing work. Like people think, oh, if you're good at math, you like school, you like are, I don't know, a person who wants to do work like that. But no, I never liked it. But my first grade teacher, she would always give us these assignments that I just wouldn't do. And then all the other kids would go off to recess, and then she would say, I can't go to recess.

When all the other kids go to recess, I had to stay and do the work that I was supposed to do all morning, like coloring in a fucking monkey or something. But then what end up happening is, uh, she would actually just give me this lecture and then say, you got to take it home as homework. And then I would go join the other kids at recess, like 10 minutes later. So I was the only kid in first grade with homework, but these other kids. Wait. So when the class, when the, when during class, you just wouldn't do it. Yeah.

You just sit there well no it would be like i would do other fucking stuff like you know i would draw my own drawings or something but the teacher would be like you gotta fill in this you gotta color in this monkey and you gotta do it the right way the mechanical coloring way i don't know why they care in first grade about some skill like that or it's just it's just Or it's just to house train people, essentially. How to start listening to the man. So when they need you to go to war someday, you obey. First you're

Connor and the monkey, next you're fucking flying out to the Middle East. Yeah, exactly. But what would happen is I would join all the other kids at recess, like, you know, 15 minutes later or whatever it is, and they would think this kid is so you know, 15 minutes later or whatever it is, and they would think this kid is so smart that in 15 minutes he did what took us all morning to do.

I see. So I got this reputation as smart early on that was based on nothing, but I liked that reputation. And then I remember the first time that I actually was good at math, it was like my mom had happened to show me randomly this thing about you add multiple digit numbers the same way you add one digit numbers, but you kind of group it over or something. I don't know.

You know how to add multiple digit numbers. You all know how to do this. The way I know my anxiety is high as I listen, I'm like, yes, I do. Yes, I do. I'm doing it right now. But, you know, the other kids in first grade didn't know this yet, and I remember one time the teacher had given us, like, a challenge problem about doing this, and I came up to the

board and I did it, and the other kids were like, yeah, the smart kid is smart. And I was like, oh, this is how I can actually have the thing that I already have the reputation for is if I just lean into learning math, maybe. So it was interesting. Did it seem like they liked you because of that? They're like, well, we'll hang out.

We want to go playdates with this kid. No, not exactly. But it's like a kind of respect or something. But no, I don't think they were like, let's bring him to our party and have him add multiple digit numbers. But there's a bit of credibility. There's a bit bit of like i remember thinking the people that like really were smart you're like oh we had a good you know you don't want to like ostracize them you want like to like but they're they're ostracized automatically like we had two i remember this guy named alan like i'll remember his last name because i feel like you'd know him one other guy they made a

more advanced math class for them and I was like an honors and they were like an honors too and it was just the two of them and Alan also his head was bigger and it made you part of the myth and maybe he just had a big forehead

logistics like a really bigger yeah but you truly part of you felt like his brain is literally larger than mine. Yeah. And he just, he is something very, he publishes papers that I cannot comprehend. Yeah. I was always the, I was always in the honors math, but the dumbest one in honors math. They have levels of honors math where there's like a dumbest one no like i knew that i i struggled like it was i worked so hard you were the dumbest one

in class yeah you thought that was honors dumb honors average honors actually you're good um no not honors was i was like i was like i was I would always be like, why are they keep moving me? Like, let me be with the normal people. But somebody has to be at the bottom of the honors class. Oh, I hated it, though. And I was always so like, I just didn't, something about me is not that. Right. I'm really good at simple math.

I'm really fast at at adding and subtracting. You can do it really fast. Okay. 34 plus 68. Okay. That is 102. 102. Ah!

You almost beat it. Okay. I'm sorry. This is an awful podcast. I'm stressed. I can't do it like that. Give us one more. 17 plus 82.

99. 99. That's an easy one. I don't know. I just made up. All right. All right. 17 plus 82. 99. 99. That's an easy one. I don't know. I just made up one. All right. All right. Okay.

But like I can do that quickly. I can, you know, that kind of thing, which is how I use it in life, you know, when you're like doing bills and things. But I think I was always so stressed in math class because I was really, I really struggled and I was not good at it. In second grade, in second grade my second grade teacher in a parent teacher conference told my parents Russell will

never be good at math what an odd thing to say in second grade she was boozing and taking pills during school but she said that and I remember

they were not happy but then also she was kind of a prophet I did struggle with it It's cool. Oh, wow. But she said that. And I remember. How do your parents react? They were not happy. But then also, she was kind of a prophet. I did struggle with it. Like, it was not easy. I don't know. But you were in honors math. Even if you're the dumbest one in the class, you're still better than me.

I don't know. I don't know. Maybe she was on something. Do you think the same way you said your legacy, you fulfilled the rumors? Maybe that was. They gave you this expectation. I don't know why my parents told me that she said that. Maybe she didn't even say it and your parents

just told you this to motivate you. She said it. I believe she said it. I think there's an old Malcolm Gladwell type thing where there was parents and they named one kid Winner and they named one kid Loser. That is an odd way to... And loser ended up

having a more successful life by whatever means you measure that. So, it probably doesn't matter at all. It's a boy named Sue kind of thing. What is that? You've never heard of the poem, A Boy Named Sue? It was made into a Johnny Cash song.

A boy is given this girl's name Sue and everybody makes fun of him his whole life, but it makes him hard and, you know, be tougher. Yeah. You've never heard of this? No. No. No. Shel Silverstein, I think, right?

He wrote it. Yeah. Is that short? That's a beautiful story. Yeah. Never heard of it. All right, fine. Well.

Sorry. Yeah. I feel. I feel... I am so dreading groceries this week. Why? You can skip it. Oh, what? Just like that?

Just like that. How about dinner with my third cousin? Skip it. Prince Fluffy's favorite treats? Skippable. Midnight snacks? Skip. My neighbor's nightly saxophone practices? Nope,

you're on your own there. Could have skipped it, should have skipped it. Skip to the good part and get groceries, meals, and more delivered right to your door on Skip. At New Balance, we believe if you run, you're a runner, however you choose to do it. Because when you're not worried about doing things the right way, you're free to discover your way. And that's what running's all about. Run your way at newbalance.com slash running. So you did this math thing on the board, and you're like, I'm a little good at this. I'm a little good at this. People give me a little respect.

And then it was like, all right, I guess that feels nice. But also I had some intrinsic interest in it. It's not completely just because people gave me accolades that I enjoyed math. But yeah, that's my first experience of feeling like, oh, I'm better than other people at math. But what was the question again? OK, so I'm tracing your trajectory of how you became basically separate

from the regular stream of what class is. And also, of course, you enjoy the things you're good at. Yeah, exactly. It would be funny if you loved math and you were awful at it. You were just working on the tip for hours, but you're like, I'm having fun. That would be great.

I would be so pleased to meet someone who really liked math, even though they were no good at it. Did you like doing proofs? Yes. Well, that's the thing. That's what I was about to say. So what people's idea of math is often is this dumb game we just played

of, like, adding numbers or something, which is something a computer or calculator could do. It's not really interesting. It's not interesting to me even to sit around adding numbers. Well, we'll cut it out, I guess. That's fine. It's not really interesting. It's not interesting to me even to sit around adding numbers. We'll cut it out, I guess. That's fine. It's how most humans relate to math.

Most of us live our lives. Here's how we as actors relate to math. It's because of one reason only. 10%. 10%? What is that? Oh, you mean

the agent's managers? Because there's one play that really infiltrated acting schools everywhere. Oh, oh, oh.'s managers? Because there's one play that really infiltrated acting schools everywhere. Oh, proof. So like that's the most I know about math comes from doing that scene. It's me taking a notebook out of a backpack in acting class being like, you got to publish this proof. Ah, okay.

I'll be trying to connect to that emotionally somehow. I forgot about that play. Proof. Who started it originally? I don't know. From Weeds. Oh, Mary Louise Parker. It was one of her big breaks. Oh, I didn't know that.

It's a beautiful play. Who wrote it? Shel Silverstein. But what I was about to say is you asked if I was interested in Proust. And yeah, so I had this other early experience, which was also, I think, in first grade, which is at school, they'll have you do these drills, right? They'll give you like 50 problems at a time

of this boring mechanical arithmetic. But I remember there was this pattern that we were supposed to pick up on, but they never explained it in school. They just had us do these drills, which is that, for example, like if you do 3 plus 3 plus 3 plus 3 plus 3, let's say 5 times you add up 3, that's the same as 5 plus 5 plus 5. You know, 3 times add up 5, 5 times add up 3. That's the same. We're all familiar with this fact. But I remember, like, we would do these drills,

and we were expected to pick up on this pattern. But I was curious, well, why does this pattern hold? You know, it's not just handed down from God on tablets. Like, there's a reason for something like that. And I remember I asked. According to the Miami Boys Choir, it was, in fact, handed down. Yeah, exactly. You can see where their math scores come from.

But I remember I asked my mom, you know, why does this thing hold? And she just showed me, like she was like, oh, well, you can imagine a rectangle and you can count the rectangle by counting the rows or you can count the rectangle by counting the columns. So if you have a three by five rectangle, you count it one way, three plus three plus three

plus three plus three, you count it the other way, five plus five plus five, and this would work for any numbers. And then that just really opened up my mind, like oh wow, that's such an interesting thing to see the reasoning behind something, and that you can search for reasoning behind all other kinds of stuff in math,

which they never really showed us at school. I mean, I'm sure there's some schools where they explain that particular fact, but most of math classes at school is just kind of rote algorithm stuff. They teach you to go through some unthinking computational steps. None of that was ever interesting to me,

but I began to see that there's other math outside of school, which is about just understanding the way things work. And that really opened up my interest in it. What age was this? Like I said, I think I was six. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Okay, can I say something? This is like almost a fight with my dad. I was very young. And I learned about, is it called a Googleplex? Sure, that's a number, yeah. What does that number mean? I think a Googleplex is Sure, that's a number, yeah. What does that number mean? I think a Googleplex is 10 to the 10 to the 100.

Doesn't it also mean... I thought it also had like a noun. Maybe I'm totally wrong about this fact. I thought it also meant like essentially... I don't even want to say it. I'm so embarrassed. I'm going to Google it. You have to be a sex act or something.

Just say it. No, I thought there was a thing about... Just say what you think. Do not look it. I'm so embarrassed. I'm going to Google it. You'd rather be a sex act or something? Just say it. Just say what you think. Do not look it up. Please tell us. I thought there was a way that it meant like a plethora. It meant a lot essentially. Do you not think 10 to the 10 to 100 is a lot? I know that's a lot, but it meant like

It's a Googleplex. It's located between No, that's wrong.'s a Googleplex. A Googleplex. It's located between where... No, that's wrong. That's Googleplex. How dare they take that name? Oh, yeah, yeah. They took the name for the building that... Are you serious?

Yeah. You can't... You can't... You can't take X... They took the name of the company also. Google was also a number 10 to the 100, and they took the whole name of their company from that number. I guess I was wrong.

Oh, no, no. Here's what it was. Okay. It was related to this. So, infinity. Okay. Let's see if this is... Infinity is... Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's not a number, it's a concept. Well, no, this is the thing that annoys me. A lot of people will be like, infinity is not a number, it's a concept Well no, this is the thing that annoys me A lot of people will be like infinity is not a number It's a concept, even a lot of mathematicians will say

Even a lot of mathematicians Even a lot of geniuses will say what I'm saying Will say stuff like that But it's a meaningless distinction to draw Numbers are concepts You could call infinity a number You could work with it arithmetically In various contexts

It's not like negative five is not a concept. It's not like three is not a concept. They're all just ways to describe certain logical structures you could have. So what I said to my father is I said, he would say, you know, infinity is not a number. It just means forever. And I said, okay, but if there's an infinite number of numbers, you'd have to give an infinite number of names to those numbers. And at some point, one of the names would in fact have to be infinity. And my father, you understand what I'm saying?

I think I do. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah. And my father was like, no, it's not a number. And I said, I hear what you're saying. no it's not a number and i said i i hear what you're saying well and i remember i was at that age where and again maybe i'm full of shit but i felt like my father that's when i said i'm smarter than my father i can conceptualize something that my father cannot conceptualize i think you're correct here i think your father's wrong so okay one more on the tally board. Got him.

Got him again. So, so you, so, so did you skip any grades? I never skipped a grade, but I skipped a lot of math classes, right? I mean, skipping a grade would be like if I was somehow a genius at every subject, I guess. You have to be, really? No, not really. It's not like you're a genius to skip a grade. I'm just saying, being good at math isn't going to mean you get to skip everything, right?

It just means you should skip math classes. Sometimes there's people that they're like, what's that one guy, Me Too guy? That one Me Too guy? No, the one from New York Times, Pharaoh, or not New York Times, Pharaoh. What's his name? Pharaoh, what?

Pharaoh, last name, Me Too. Times, Pharaoh. What's his name? Pharaoh, what? Pharaoh. Last name, Miro. Oh, Ronan Farrow. Ronan Farrow. Ronan Farrow. I completely misinterpreted. Me too, guy. Me too.

I think he graduated from Harvard when he was like 16, and you're like, why, dude? That's stupid. Do you know what I mean? When they're like, they went to college when they were 12. That is so dumb. You wish he had been held back so Harvey Weinstein could still be making money. No, I just think it's dumb. You're like, part of the experience, too, is being of an age where you can go and live alone.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I agree. I mean, it's just for one of Woody Allen's kids to not have a regular childhood is insane. But he must be a genius. He's fine. You couldn't go to college when you're 12? one of Woody Allen's kids and not have a regular childhood is insane. Yes, but he must be a genius. He's fine. You couldn't go to college when you're 12?

You gotta be a fucking... I don't know. If you're a celebrity... You're good at school. It does not always mean genius. Like, you can accomplish school. He jokes that maybe

he's Frank Sinatra's son. I'm like, I don't know. I don't think this is Frank he's been with. I think this is the Woody Allen genes. Oh, so you think he's a genius?

Woody Allen? Yeah. He's at certain things. Genius at being bad. He's a bad, bad man. I don't support him at all. He's still around. I think he lives in New York.

He's definitely around. He's definitely alive. He made a French movie recently Oh Yeah all his movies Recently are set in Europe Right Yeah

I think he's probably More comfortable there Yeah I think like France Is currently like having You know Many many years later They're like going through

Their Me Too reckoning But it's not quite No It's not quite going The same way ours was There's a little bit more leeway. I think the president, Macron, spoke out in favor of this old actor who's like a legend. President Macron, his wife is a teacher who slept with him when he was 15, I believe.

Yeah, yeah. You didn't know that? No. Oh, yeah. She was, let's see what the age gap is. It's big. Let's see. the age gap is It's big Let's see The space between When did President Macron

Meet his wife? Just ask how old she is In 1993 at the age Of 40 She met the 15 year old Emmanuel Macron In Love Providence High School. What? 25 years difference?

25 years, 40, and 15. Incidentally, we've come back. She also got older, too, though. No, I know. How old is he now? I see what's going on. We've come back to doing multiple-digit subtraction. Yeah, we love it.

We love it. No, but that's why they're not quite operating on the same. Oh, my God. That's a scandal. I did not know that. Wow. And his parents were really against it. I get it.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, of course they were against it. 40! But isn't it crazy that you're telling your child, no, you cannot date your decades-older teacher. Then your child grows up and becomes president and is like, I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want. Yeah, that's very...

She's still alive. Yeah. How old is he? Jesus Christ, we're doing a lot of trivia today. He was 15 in 1993. You tell us. Okay, okay. Go.

So that's 30 years ago, so he's 45. Yeah, I guess you're right. She's 60. 46. We're in 1993. So 45, that means... So 45, 46, she's 70. She's 70? He's 45?

Yeah. Oh my God, sex must be good. By the time he's ready for his midlife crisis, he'll be... So you're saying this is ideal. It's actually like a... So, you stay in school. Yeah. You go to college for math?

Yeah, I did a double major in computer science and math. Now, here's something from Proof that I feel like was, they said that they acted like the math kids, like all inspiration happens when you're young, or like that's when your brain is operating the best. Yeah, yeah. That's a big thing in math culture is they like to say all good math is only done by real young mathematicians, yeah. That's a big thing in math culture is they like to say all good math is only done by real young mathematicians.

By nubile teens. All good math is done by nubile teens. But is it the same thing as like, you know, I think with lots of fields, it's like, well, when then you get more successful and then you got to give lectures, you don't have as much time to sit. I mean, I think that's probably true. I think that's probably the reality of it is you have less free time as you age. You don't think your brain slows down? Maybe when you're like 70 or 80. But yeah, no, I don't think your brain.

I don't think Macron's wife is coming up with any new math theorems for sure. She's coming up with all kinds of math that justifies sleeping with all kinds of kids. sleeping with all kinds of kids. They also said, they made it seem like, this play made it seem like it was like young and like Adderall and drugs. Oh, that is actually true. A lot of mathematicians took amphetamines. Let's say in the middle of the 20th century,

this was very popular, was taking amphetamines and all kinds of other drugs to do math, yeah. And was it just to do it even better, faster, stronger. Probably the first two, maybe not the last one. Uh, yeah,

they just thought it fueled their creativity, but who knows if it really does, right? You know, a lot of people are like, Oh, drugs helped me fuel my comedy or whatever. Yeah.

Or music. I think it just, it helps you see it a different way. I've never taken Adderall. My, my, my fantasy, if I wasn't such a puss, is I would take Adderall,

I'd go in a room with just a laptop with no Wi-Fi, and I'd finally write a screenplay. I'd lock myself in, and I couldn't eat, I couldn't use the bathroom until I finished the screenplay. Just to finally get it done. You'd have this fantasy, and then you'd take the drugs, you'd lock yourself in the bathroom, and you'd just turn out math proof after

math proof. Hey, that wouldn't be bad either. Did you ever get on the dope? The Addies? No, I never. The train? The what train? The A train? Oh, is that Adderall?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I never took Adderall, no, or amphetamines or anything. I don't know. I just am skeptical of the idea it would actually make me more productive. Do you ever do any drugs? I mean, sure, for recreational purposes, sure. Yeah. Well, I've never done anything much.

I mean, I've done the usual pot and whatever, but yeah, yeah. Yeah. We're doing shroom soon. Oh, my God. I've got to get my flight. Yeah. Yeah.

So just help me understand this this world of of what what a mathematician's life looks like you go to do you everyone go gets a phd you got two degrees computer science oh yeah undergrad yeah i got uh computer science and math uh double major. You doing comedy at all during this? No, I wanted to. I was interested in comedy from, you know, when I was a teenager or whatever. I always thought when I went to college, oh, I'll join an improv group or something, and, you know, I'll be doing comedy also. But I guess I just kind of got sidetracked in college

and just ended up not doing anything except my studies. It's such a boring thing to say, but it wasn't until at the very end of grad school that I got back into doing comedy. Not back into, but pursuing the interest for the first time, really. Did you have fantasies? When you're an actor, we fantasized about not having to do podcasts

and starring in movies. Right. When you're a young mathematician, do you have like, it's Einstein, Godel, and me. I don't quite understand what you're asking here. What was your fantasy? Were you hoping to like, I'm going to solve something one day. Oh, what's the aspiration? Yeah, yeah, sure, exactly.

It's like you have this fantasy that you will come up with an insight, you'll solve a big open problem in math, and everybody will think you're a great genius or whatever. Are there active open problems? Oh, yeah. There's like a big list of, I mean, there's a lot of open problems, but one thing is there's this big list of seven open problems. Now it's six because one was solved.

But they had million-dollar prizes attached to them. One was solved? Yeah, one was solved. But they had million-dollar prizes attached to them. One was solved? Yeah, one was solved. When? This was probably like 15 years ago or something. Who pays out the million dollars? There's an institute called the Clay Millennium Institute, Clay Mathematics Institute.

It was founded in 2000. I don't remember who funded it. Like a billionaire, I think some billionaire whose name was Clay decided he was going to endow this fund. But this is the problem. It gets so complicated I could in theory say what was the

problem and you'd explain it and we'd go we have no idea. Would he be able to explain it? You want to know the one that was solved? Yeah. What is going to happen is you would be like I don't fully understand I just kind of understand. I'll give you the shape of the problem, like the gist of it. It's a long line. Well, it actually is a problem about shapes also. It's about topology. It's about... Okay, I know what that means. Okay, good. Surfaces. Yeah, yeah, sure, exactly. So like,

here's a simple kind of shape is It's like a circle, a sphere. You can imagine in any number of dimensions. There's a two-dimensional circle, a three-dimensional sphere. There will be a four-dimensional, five-dimensional, six-dimensional analog of just like a round thing. I'm right on the edge. Not to lose it. Yeah.

I'm still there. Also, I should say the name of this thing. It's called the Poincaré. Actually, I don't know how to pronounce it I'm still there also I should say the name of this thing it's called the Poincaré actually I don't know how to pronounce it exactly Poincaré conjecture I think and so the idea is if you are given some kind of shape it might not exactly

be a circle or a sphere or something, but it might be in some sense similar to it in that you could kind of bend it, squash it, et cetera, and make it into a circle without doing any ripping or gluing or something. So, for example, if you take a cube, you can kind of bend it, squash it into a sphere. You don't have to do any – you look like you're –

No, no, that's what I do. Frequently I see a cube, and I go like this, and I make it a sphere, you don't have to do any... You look like you're a... No, no, that's what I do. Frequently, I see a cube, and I go like this, and I make it a sphere. Whereas if you have, like, a donut or something, there's nothing you can do to make it into a sphere

because it's got a hole in the middle. You have to glue something together. I'm following. I am. Okay. So this is the starting point of this thing. Suppose you want to recognize. I was hoping we were at the end.

Shit. Suppose you want to be able to tell. You think you're going to solve it right now? He's going to explain it and you're going to have the answer? It's been solved before. Suppose you want to be able to tell when some random shape can be rearranged in this way into the correct analog of a circle or sphere for its number of dimensions.

The conjecture was that if it satisfied certain simple properties that are... Okay, I'm calling them simple, but they're going to be too complicated for me to describe right now. But it's like you can do some kind of algebraic calculation with a shape, and you can get some certain numbers out of it. And if the shape happens to have the same numbers as a sphere, the conjecture was then it would actually be bendable into a sphere. I'm not doing a good description of the last part of this because it's going to be too complicated.

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Question. going to be too complicated. Yeah. So, okay. A question. In solving it, what impact does that have on the world? Like, what do we use then? What does that inform? Right. So the guy who solved it, he was named Grigory Perelman.

He's a reclusive Russian mathematician. In solving it, he developed a bunch of tools. I forget the name for it because it's outside of my area. I think he called it, I don't know. It doesn't matter. Some kind of surgery he developed. Oh, reachy flow.

That's something. But the names don't matter. The point is the tools he developed will help people not only solve this problem, but understand lots of other things in math quickly and fluently. It's like if you developed calculus to solve one problem, well, not only did you solve that problem, now you have this tool that lets you do a million things really quickly. Engineers can do it. So I don't know directly applications of the topology that he built, but the idea is presumably down the line people will have other things they're trying to do

for whatever, I don't know, make an MRI machine work. Got it. But there's six open problems. Yeah, six ones left now, yeah. And do you have any idea of how many people across the world are working on that? Are you working on one? Do you look at one?

To be clear, most mathematicians are not working on these particular problems. They just happen to be. No, no, no. But like, as a fun... But is money ever tight and you're like, go online and you're like, I think I could do this one. There is one of them I think about from time to time. Okay. I'm not going to solve it, but you know,

it's fun to think, imagine. I might. Yeah, sure. You think is it possible? One day you just go, oh my god. Anything's possible. It's very unlikely. Sure. Now, is this the? One day you just go, oh my God. Anything's possible. It's very unlikely. Sure. Now, is this the kind of thing where... Yeah, go on.

So, okay. So you have this problem. Are you at a board, a whiteboard? Like if you were like going to tackle it, is this something that you would need a whiteboard for? Well... This is like asking someone who works in computers, like when you hack into a system, are you like this?

It is kind of like asking that. I want to know. We want to know how accurate the movies are. I want to know, like, is it like a Matt Damon, like. Do you have a whiteboard in your apartment? I do have a whiteboard in my apartment. Okay. But I only have it for one purpose, which is that you don't use a whiteboard when it's just you having thoughts by yourself. You use a whiteboard

when you're trying to show something to somebody else, right? So you use paper. Yeah, you use paper. I use paper most of the time. It's not as exciting as the camera angle, just a little. Well, you know, in movies, I don't know if you've ever noticed this, but in movies, mathematicians are always drawing on windows for some

reason. Yes! To view their face through the equation. Yes, yeah. No one in real life has ever drawn math equations on windows. some reason. Yes! To view their face through the equation. No one in real life has ever drawn math equations on windows. Is it frustrating at all? Are you single or are you dating? I have a girlfriend.

You have a girlfriend. Did she get math? She is not a math person really. I wish, I guess in a sense. Yeah, I wish she was, but uh, you know, is it, is it hard that if you're, you're working on something, you're working on your thesis and you have a good day or a bad day, you're stuck. You can't share any of it. Well, I can share the gist of it in the high level. The way I'm talking about it right now, I can talk about it like that with her. But yeah,

you can't get into the details, of course. Pythagorean. Did you say Pythagorean? You mean Pythagoras? Or Pythagorean or something. Yeah, you know. Pythagorean theorem? What was that? Yeah, Pythagorean theorem. I thought you said Pythagoreum.

I think I did. Yeah, which is kind of like combining. It's been a long time since I've used that. Pythagorean theorem. I thought you said Pythagoreum. I think I did. Yeah, which is kind of like combining. It's been a long time since I've used that. Pythagoras. Pythagoras. He was an ancient Greek mathematician. You got there. You got there eventually.

Do you like, do you find, do you like? I had a bad case of Pythagorea this week. So, math. Do you also like science? No. We're so stupid. I hate science. We're so fucking stupid. I mean, only math is good you also like science? No. We're so stupid. I hate science. We're so fucking stupid.

I mean, only math is good. You hate science. I mean, I'm playing it up. No, I don't hate science, but I... We don't need to step on you comedically. Every time you say something, we're like, wait, really? Yeah, I know. 100% you mean that?

You have to be joking. Is this a joke? Is this a joke? But it's true that I am not particularly interested in science the way a person who actually cares about science is. I really am interested in abstract stuff that you can just figure out in your head, whereas science, you have to go do experiments in the world

and it's constrained by physical reality. I don't want to understand physical reality. I want to understand logic. I just do believe that I'm someone that I share so much with my girlfriend who is in like, she's a manager but she understands comedy

and I can talk to her about almost any aspect of what I'm working on that it would be isolating to never be able to get into the weeds like you'd have to find it you'd have to have it elsewhere. Yeah. You know, some people,

even people that aren't in the same field can talk about their work to a degree. It is troubling with math that perhaps more than other fields, it's so far apart from the ordinary person's experiences. Like, if I was a physicist, let's say, if I was an astrophysicist,

I could at least be like, oh, I'm talking about stars, and everyone would be like, yeah, I know what stars are. But talking about math is hard because I'd be like, oh, I'm working with these abstract objects, and be like, I have never heard of them or anything leading up to them, and it'll take you forever to explain what they are. So it's true. It's a little frustrating.

I wish it weren't that way. But, you know, my girlfriend has many other positive qualities. If she's listening to this, she's great. If you're going out and, like, someone needs to do, like, easy math, does she just go, you do it, you can do it faster? What do you mean? Like, the tip on it? Sure, the tip. Yeah, but see, that's like arithmetic.

This is what I was trying to say is... But is your arithmetic very good too? I know, this is the problem. I always try to say math has almost nothing to do with arithmetic just because I'm good at math. It's so foolish to say

I'm good at arithmetic. But then it is in fact true that I'm better at arithmetic than most people. So, yeah. Okay. Would you mind, could you think of

a multiplication of two two-digit numbers and all three of us? A multiplication? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not just an addition. I want to see how badly he beats us. Okay.

12 times 24. 12 times 24. 288. No way. No way. 12 times 12 is 144. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's an easy one.

Yeah. Can you do three digits? I mean, I'm not going to be super fast or anything. Do three digits. Have three digits. We can't even do it, but fast or anything. Do three digits. Have three digits. We can't even do it, but go for it. Two three-digit numbers. Yes.

Oh, my God. I'm going to fall flat on my face here. Okay, one three-digit and one two-digit. What is this proving? What is this? Who is this for? Take over the podcast. Is this for our audience?

Do something else. Wait, just one more. This is completely a sham. This makes a mockery of mathematics. 134 times 57. I don't want to do this. 134 times 57. I need paper.

No. 134 times 57. 134 times 57. 534. 534 times 5. Do we have to do this? Okay None of us could do it Is it 6500 something?

No You said something? 5500 I don't know Alright, well we reached our limits Yeah Listen We need

You know how Neil deGrasse Tyson Or Bill Nye the Science Guy have done a very good job, or their life's mission seems to be making science accessible. Sure. And it sounds like you, I try and you go, this is a mockery of the art of mathematics. You're talking about doing it. I hate Neil deGrasse Tyson, by the way. I hate him.

No one likes Neil deGrasse Tyson. He also, speaking of... I know. Me too? This Google? No, I was only saying doing arithmetic problems on command makes a mockery of math.

I'm all for making math accessible. I used to have a job. I made pop math videos on YouTube for a living for a while. Really? For like a company? Yeah, for an extremely popular YouTube channel called 3Blue1Brown. Of course, if you don't watch math videos on YouTube, you wouldn't have heard of it.

But it's this guy who has like 7 million subscribers. And they like his math explanations. And he brought me on at some point to help him make his videos. Is there an aspect of mathematics that you're like, society should know this? Or like, you know, basically most of us, as we've discussed, we get to algebra and division, and that's kind of, we learn some other stuff in school,

but I forget all of trigonometry. I forget all of calculus. I never got my head around calculus. I understand graphs kind of. Oh, okay, okay. Well, no, actually, I am a little different than a lot of people assume mathematicians are. I mean, than a lot of mathematicians actually are. I don't care if the general public is interested in math, learns most math. It would be nice if they understood accurately what math is about. But also also I recognize there's so many things I'm not interested in.

I just said I don't care that much about science. Everyone should be free to pursue their own interests. I think it would be nice if people learned about the kinds of math that are off the standard curricular path. People only get shown stuff that's basically about numbers and kinds of arithmetic manipulations of numbers. Even calculus, it's just about doing things with numbers.

And they don't ever get shown that so much of math is just about abstract logic that has nothing to do with numbers. I think it would be great if they were exposed to that. But it doesn't bother me, really, that they aren't or don't care. I don't know. Everybody's got their own interests. So when people,

when people make the connection between comedy and math, yes, I've always hated, uh, uh, what's Penn and Teller. Penn, is Penn the one that talks?

Yes. Penn. He, he like loves going like comedy is like jazz. And it makes me want to throw up. As someone who doesn't care about jazz. That's right. And also, I find the comparison completely false.

Sure. There's this whole thing about, like, I barely understand jazz to understand what's being said. But it's just, like, this idea of, like of like, the comedian's like a jazz artist up there. They're improvising. Improvising and going around. And I'm like, I don't think you know what comedy is. Right. Or jazz.

Or jazz. And certainly it's like, I think it would be if I had the ego to talk about like what magic is. It's like, I don't really know. Right. I'm not, I've done some magic. I don't really know right i'm not i've done some magic i don't know i want to hear about the magic you've done i mean very little i i did i

went through i went to a summer camp and it was like a theater camp but they were like two like i think real magicians at least what it was to my mind they toured around the the world okay and it was like they just showed us some stuff, some secret stuff, and then they wouldn't show us how to do other tricks. And so I came back. I got two Tarbell books, which is like Tarbell. That's like the classic one through eight. And we've had some magicians on here, so I like magic.

Okay, okay. You like magic? I actually do. I know it's like considered corny, and it is corny, but I don't know. There's something fun about it. I've watched that Penn and Teller show sometimes. What is it's considered corny, and it is corny, but I don't know. There's something fun about it. I've watched that Penn and Teller show sometimes. What is it?

Fool Me? Trick Me? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. You ever see that one? I've not. I'd love to have Penn on, or the other guy. I don't think Teller would be a great podcast guest.

I think he talks in real life. I know, I know. I think he talks about shit. You stepped on my joke again. Damn. So what I was saying is comedy and math gets compared a lot. Yeah. You stepped on my joke again Damn So So What I was saying is

Comedy and math gets compared a lot Yeah Is there Comedy comes in threes People love to say that Yeah yeah yeah And I'm like okay Can you come up with a second example

Yeah And maybe a third To twist it out Yeah Is there anything to this I do think there's a connection Even though of course Most mathematicians aren't funny.

I'm the only funny mathematician. Matthew Broussard likes math. Is he a mathematician? He reads math books. Okay, so that's a different thing. Sammy O'Bade and Matthew Broussard. That's like saying, though, that, like, you know, like, I think if you are a mathematician. Come up with an example.

That's like saying what? I'm trying to think of a different field. It's like saying you're a magician because you have two Tar Bell books. Yeah, because you went to Star Camp. Okay, good, good, good. But I was going to say, even though most mathematicians aren't funny and probably 99% of comedians don't know any advanced math, I do think there is a connection in that the kind of comedy I like is about

playing with logic. And that is also what math is about. It's like you say, suppose I take these premises and I try and, you know, see where they lead me, twist it, go in a funny direction with it, but play it out logically, you know? Does that make any sense what I'm saying? It's like, what, if A, then B, you know, that fucking UCB motto. I actually think there's some legitimacy to that as a way of thinking about comedy. You're trying to see, if I start from here and I give myself this game, these rules, where can I have it take me? I guess so. Maybe there's something in the spirit of it.

But again, when you're talking about comedy, per the rule of threes example, it's like the most basic. I'm not saying you're going to sit down and do some trigonometry or something to figure out a joke. There's no list of seven premises that have never found a punchline. And if you solve it, you get a million. No, but I'm saying. Wouldn't it be fun, though, if it was like a priest and rabbi walking a bar?

And it's like, who's going to figure it out? I can't crack it. Yeah, yeah. That would be great. No, I don't mean that. But I just mean the muscles that you sharpen in doing math and the muscles that you sharpen in doing comedy, I think, can be the same muscles of trying to find you're working with something abstract.

You're trying to find a, a funny, unusual, interesting way of looking at it. And you're testing, you're testing it out. You're, you're trying different ways of doing it.

And you're, you're coming up with like, what's the most streamlined, like good version. You know what I mean? Like there is something in the, like the, like, yeah. Like you what I mean? There is something in the... Yeah, like you're saying of...

Yeah, I see. I think comedy is more like math than it is like jazz. Let's put it that way. I wouldn't draw... I like that. I like that. Okay. Cool, cool. Take that pen. It's not like science. Yeah. No. I guess you're experimenting. It is always odd to me that you

can't just, like, at home... It's odd to me that you can't just like at home. It's always bothered me that you can't figure out if a thing is funny or not until you take it to an audience to get their reaction. It's so weird to me that empirical aspect of comedy that it seems to be true. Like you'll think a joke is so good. You'll do it.

People won't go for it. You'll think another joke isn't that great. It gets a great response. Well, why? Like Why can't I judge a joke? My brain is no worse than the audience's brain, but somehow I can't always predict. It's probably like trying to figure out the economy

or traffic where you're dealing with all these different factors that your brain can't comprehend of how it will... A joke doesn't work for everybody per se. You're right so like yeah so so what are you going to do with the comedy aspect of your life or is math well let me yeah what's what's what's going on you did you just write your thesis yeah i just

finished my phd last summer that i had uh originally abandoned 10 years ago and then Oh my god. Yeah, exactly. So I had gone to grad school. I've been working on this PhD for seven years and then I got disenchanted. I abandoned it. Was it like, fuck, did you get your PhD or abandoning it, you abandoned the PhD?

Well, if I'd gotten it, I wouldn't have come back last summer to do it. Were you heartbroken? Were you sad? Were you like, fuck? Yeah, I was very sad. Like, my image of myself was kind of wrapped up in the idea that this, you know, is my career path. Back to that little boy at recess. Exactly.

You found out. Yeah, yeah. I had to write my old teacher and be like, you were correct. I will never learn to color in the monkey. Wow. Yeah. Now, don't ask, did you actually contact that teacher? Because that would be stepping on the joke.

I actually did contact that teacher. You stepped on my poignant memory. Oh, my God. And then, so then one day, what, you're walking around, you're like, wait a second, maybe that. And then you. That basically what you're walking around, you're like, wait a second, maybe that. And then you. That basically is kind of what happened during COVID. You know, I was just I had nothing to do with a lot of my time.

I just cooped up at home and. We were busy traveling. What's that? We were busy traveling. Were you really traveling? Really? but I was in actually a Twitter math chat and I mentioned

this abandoned dissertation of mine and this woman was curious to read the tiny bit that I had gotten written from like 10 years ago so I showed it to her and she asked me a question and she was like what if you

I don't understand this part. Could you frame this part a little differently? And then I was trying to answer her question and I had a realization, like something I had never realized 10 years ago. And you ran to the window. Yeah. You started writing furiously.

Something like that. There was no window involved, but yeah, I just sat down and I like banged out like suddenly 30 new pages of how to get the start of this dissertation written. And so exciting. Yeah, exactly. And then that had that led to my finally being able to write it. Yeah.

Before then, like when you had abandoned it. Yeah. Were you like doing math as a hobby? I'm sure you were following up with new developments and new things happening in the world. You're saying in the period after I left grad school. Yeah, were you doing anything? I was still thinking about math all the time, sure.

I would still read math papers and so on. Every now and then I'd say, maybe I'll finish my dissertation, and then I'd give it a shot, and I'd hit the same stumbling block that I always hit where I just couldn't. It's not that I didn't have it worked out. I had gotten results when I was in grad school, and I just couldn't figure out the right way to present them cleanly where other people would be able to grasp what I was talking about.

And every time I tried to write it, I would get hung up on this one thing that I could not write cleanly. And so I stopped thinking about my dissertation for like 10 years, except these like abortive attempts every now and then. But I would just still read other math papers, try and keep my senses sharp, I guess. And so now that this is done, walk us through what it means when you finish a thesis. You presented it to your old professor?

Right. So generally, you will have to do a defense, which is, yeah, so I got in contact with my old advisor. But my old advisor is literally an old advisor. He's like 90-something now. How old were they when you first started dating? He was 40. I was 15. Hey, that works. Yeah. But...

When you contacted him, was he like, oh... He was like, I'm about to die now. You have to find somebody else to work with. No, he was happy to hear from me, but he had become sort of genuinely retired basically after COVID. So he wasn't able to read it in detail like I was hoping would happen. So that put me in a bind where if I'm going to actually file this, of course I have to have some professor in my area read it in detail and ascertain it's correct. So I got in touch with another big name in my field, just sort of out of the blue, and

I was like, I need someone to help me finish this PhD that I ran 10 years ago. And very graciously, this guy agreed. And he, I'm saying this in too much detail, but he read my dissertation in painstaking detail. He gave me all kinds of suggestions. It was so heartwarming that this guy was like a huge name in the field, bothered to do that. And then you have to set up a talk that you give. So that's the defense. You have to convene like a panel of professors from your university. And you give this like hour-long talk. And then they quiz you.

Like they ask you questions about your dissertation. And then they decide whether to pass you or not. So you go all the way back to your college. This is graduate, which was Berkeley? Yeah, this was Berkeley. And you just contacted them and you're like, it's been 10 years, convene the panel? It was kind of like that.

Well, I first got in touch with my old advisor and I knew basically that he's like a super big name in the field. So I knew if he said to the administration that he wanted them to help me finish it, then they would find a way to make it work. And actually, there was all kinds of bureaucratic complications because none of them are interesting,

but it's like technically there's a thing called achieving candidacy, which I had done back when I was in grad school, but that status lapses after 10 years. Sure. I just love me going back to musical theater college and be like, I'm ready to sing Sondheim's Not a Day Goes By. Right.

Convene the voice teachers. So I had to get all kinds of special exceptions to reinstate my candidacy. And also, while you're in grad school, you take these things called qualifying exams that prove that you're aware of your field in general. And I had to retake those because those had lapsed. So there was all this, like, red tape stuff.

But basically because my old advisor leaned on them to make it happen, they made all the things happen. You did a presentation for these people? I did a presentation for these people. How long is it? You're reading your thesis? You're summarizing it? No, it's like you put together slides,

like a PowerPoint or something. You have to speak at the presentation. Yes. I'm sure some of these are... I mean, you're a very charismatic mathematician. Thank you. But I'm sure that's not the... I imagine some of these mathematicians are mumbling into the mic.

I imagine some of these presentations are tough. They are tough, yeah. Slides flashy, colorful, or animations? No, I thought about it. I thought about having every letter appear one at a time, a little typewriter sound. I mean, PowerPoints, I just think about how much of my middle school

is making PowerPoints. Yeah, yeah. Did you have any comedy, anything funny in there at all? No, I always kept comedy and math very, even though I just said a second ago, I think they're related, I never put any comedy into a thing like that.

No, I don't think this panel of professors, they're not going to appreciate my jokes about Orthodox Jews. And then at the end, you do a presentation. They question you. They challenge you. Yeah, they kind of challenge you, exactly. It's called a defense. Like, there's this idea that they are attacking your knowledge

and you have to defend it. Do you get heated? There is a thing that happened. I hope they're not listening to this. I'm sure they're not. I know. There's a funny story about what happened, which is that I also...

You invite your friends also to watch your dissertation. Oh my god. That's worse than having an improv friend inviting you to their 101 class. I wouldn worse than a bringer chair. Well, you're mad friends. I mean, what was it?

I didn't. I wouldn't invite a fucking. How long is it? If it was a bringer defense, you had to bring 15 people to sit through. What were you about to ask? How long is the, like, how long would this presentation be? The presentation itself was like an hour, and then there's the questioning part, which I probably another, I don't know, 40 minutes or something.

I forget. But, you know, all my old friends from grad school and stuff, I brought them to watch it. But also, as I was just saying, there was that woman from the group chat who had sparked this whole thing. I invited her to watch the defense. But when I was doing the defense, it was over Zoom. I didn't fly back to Berkeley. I did it over Zoom. And I had never

actually met the professor who read my dissertation in detail, because I also only contacted him via email. I never met him in person. Yeah. And during my presentation, during the defense,

I started getting questions during the presentation, and I was responding to them, but I was a little distressed by these questions because I thought, oh, this professor, he had read my dissertation in such detail, I thought, but now he's asking these questions that show some confusion over points that I thought he would have picked up on by now. And they're a little bit aggressive, these questions, sometimes, too. And I didn't think that would happen until after the presentation. So I'm getting a little upset internally. I'm getting a little thrown off my game, and I'm about to say something like, let's save these for the end, something. I don't know. But

I just plowed through, and I decided at some point, oh, what's actually happening is he's purposely asking me these questions, even though he knows the answer, because he's trying to guide me through giving a better presentation. That's why I decide. And then we get to the Q&A session. And my professor asks me a question. And I respond by saying something that was like directly from my thesis that he had already read yeah and he says to me yes i know that because i read your dissertation i was hoping you would tell me something else with this question i was trying to get at something else and i'm very apologetic i'm

like oh sorry and i try and say something else and whatever and it all works out fine eventually they go away and i'm just kind of talking to my friends, waiting for them to come back and tell me whether I passed or not. Publicly on the Zoom? Yeah, yeah. Oh my god. This is so years in the making. They convene and then they make a real-time

decision? Yeah, yeah, exactly. How long? How long do they convene for? I forget. It was probably like 15 minutes, but it felt like forever, you know. Yeah. Then they come back, and they tell me, you passed. And I'm so relieved because I was like, what the hell was going on earlier with these questions? And then I go to this celebratory dinner in New York with a bunch of my math grad school friends that live here.

And they say to me, what was going on with that woman asking you questions during the presentation? I'm like, what? I thought that was my professor asking me questions during the presentation. It wasn't my professor. It was the woman from the Twitter group chat I invited. She didn't realize the convention

that nobody talks during the presentation except the panel of professors. And she had just been asking me all these questions. I had no idea because I'd never heard anybody's voices before. And it's a great thing that I did not be like, listen, Professor Shulman, blah, blah, blah, or something, or give the game away at any point. But it could have been a disaster. Kind of crazy the panel didn't say. I know.

Yeah, exactly. Listen, lady. It'd be more poetic if you did not pass because she's the one who cracked it open for you in the first place. Yeah. But yeah, that's like... I'm glad that you were able to explain that whole thing

in detail because I feel like it would be really hard with non with non-math people, explain how big of a deal this thing is and be like, oh, it's a big deal. It's a celebratory. Like, it's a very complicated thing. It must be hard in life to, like, because we feel this sometimes with non-actors. You can feel like something happens and it's hard to label it or describe it to someone if it's not like, hey, I got this movie or something. It's sometimes hard

and this, I feel like, is a really good example of it would be really difficult to explain to people what it is. This is like if we made a movie of this scene, it's like there's little lines about what the thesis is but no one cares, but it's more about the woman being like, oh, wait a second. I had a question about this.

Yeah. And you sweat. Yeah. The aggressive thing. I know. I see the ring light in your face and it's making you. And what happens if you didn't get it? Would you have to, like, wait a year to submit again?

No, no. I mean, there's, like, you would have to completely do a new thesis or something. Like, I've never heard of it. You couldn't like object and say this panel was biased. I'm going to go over here, do it in this country. I've never heard

of any such thing happening. Yeah. Oh. But you know, what happens is they do try to have a sense before the defense of whether they think

there's any risk of that happening and they'll try and dissuade you from scheduling the defense of whether they think there's any risk of that happening and they'll try and dissuade you from scheduling the defense if they if they sure sure yeah yeah all right well you you did it i did do it you felt good i felt great it was such a relief because this thing had been you know i had given up on being a an academic, but it had been weighing on me still, like, oh, I was so close. I wish I had done that.

Yeah, yeah. So what are you now? Well, see, that's the thing. I'm still not working in a university. Like, I've given up on that career path because even if I wanted to, I don't know, there's just so many negatives

to that career path. You don't have any choice over where you live. Sure. So I don't,. There's just so many negatives to that career path. You don't have any choice over where you live. Sure. So I don't, at my age, I don't want to be moving to the middle of the country for a postdoc and then two years later moving to another nowhere's place.

And I want to be doing comedy, so I need to live in a city that has a comedy scene and stuff also. So it's just not going to work. So, well, right now I'm unemployed, but I think the next job I get is probably going to be a tech industry job, like my last job even before I finish this thing. So I don't think it's going to affect my career that much,

but it's just like a personal closure thing. Good for you. Yeah, it's great. Let's go on to our next segment, This Has Got to Stop. This Has Got to Stop. This Has Got to Stop. This is for all the new listeners today, all the math folks out there. This is where we say something.

That's got to stop. Big, small, personal, broad. Russell, this has got to stop. I got to pull it up. Okay. I will go first. My, this has got to stop. Oh, you know what?

I thought I'd say some stand-up, some little stand-up things that are bothering me recently. Some little tropes that I hear a lot of people do. And I'm not saying I'm always innocent of these. You make a joke about yourself.

The audiences laugh. You go, you guys laughed a little too hard at that. Right. I hate it. I hate it. You made a joke. We all can tell.

Sometimes though, when things are, sometimes when things are hacky, you go, well, you know what It seems to be working And it's just for us On the inside

That knows That this is overdone Yeah For the regular person As a comedian You have a sense You've watched so much comedy You have a sense

Of what's overdone As an audience It's just like Oh this is fresh to me Because you don't Watch that much Well that's why I think comedy's broken

Right now where Because everyone's Everyone's pulling everyone up. Everyone wants to do everyone's podcast. No one's being mean to each other that we've lost. I think all like artistic systems. Yeah. Outside is not going to understand fully what's hacky outside.

It's not going to fully have respect for the art form, but part of, you know, ecosystems is internally you, you bully each other. You create standards that you have to meet, and that keeps the art form progressing. And I think that has broken in stand-up comedy.

So there's a lot of people at the top that are, like, hacky as fuck. And there's the same way that, like, Carl Smencia, he didn't get called out for stealing jokes outside of in the regular world. He got called internally. Right, right. And that eventually trickled on to, and it was a cleaning of the system,

you know? And I feel like we've really lost that. That's my theory on stand-up comedy. This one, I'm sure I'm guilty of, because sometimes

you do have to say it, but you go, so I'm single, so I'm in therapy. Yeah. But sometimes You do need to talk about Your therapist

You got your therapy joke Which you can have a good therapy joke And you gotta say it So I feel a little more sympathetic to that You've written little disclaimers After everything that has to stop And you're like This doesn't really have to stop

No, they're too hard to laugh Well, there's a way to of like, so I'm single. It feels very like you want to laugh there rather than being like, I'm single and then going into something. It does feel like those are two different things.

Yeah. Yes, that's true. Okay, then my third stand-up thing and this is the last one and this one I feel 100%. Okay. Actually, there's two more. There's, and I used to do this in the beginning, where you was like, and then this person was like,

get a job, you fucking loser. And I was like, well, mom. Oh. Reveal. The reveal. The reveal of the speaker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, listen, sometimes reveals can be fun.

Yeah. But that one, that one's been overdone. And then this is one where I used to have a joke where you go, you set up, you do the joke, and then my girlfriend was like, you get a job, loser. I'm just kidding. I don't have a girlfriend. And I will say, early on, I had a joke that was a good joke, and the second tag was that. And I had to talk about internal.

There was an older comedian, and he saw me do it after a show, where it killed, and he said, you're better than that. And I never, ever, ever, ever did it again. And we have lost that. We have lost Chappelle saying to Matt Rife, you're better than that. He just goes, hey, do the show anytime. Because we all know it increases all of our money all around. It's not good.

And that's why stand-up's in a bad place publicly. So I'm in therapy. You got this? Got to stop? Yeah. Okay. So every. You laughed too hard at that.

Every two or three months on Twitter, this clip goes around. Tobey Maguire in Spider-Man. Do you know this clip? Is it the one where he's catching the stuff on the tray? You know that's actually not CGI. I know all the discourse about this fucking clip, of course. Don't tell me that's. It was a lot of takes, too.

Listen, I'm sick of seeing it. I'm sick of finding out about it. I'm sick of it being like, did you know that they did this in 156 takes? It took 16 hours. It took 16... If anything should be CGI,

it was that dumb two-second clip to make a whole crew, all those extras, everyone sit there for 16 hours to get that dumb little thing. They can be fake milk cartons. That is so, I want real sets. I want real prosthetics. I don't care if you, a two-second clip is CGI'd. The fact that some people went home from that set that day

and they saw loved ones probably nurses and they were like what did you do today and they're like i watched seven people die and also and i had saw eight babies burn into the world what did you do i filmed that dumb fucking clip for 16 hours i watched an actor who's never caught anything in his life have to catch five things in a row on a tray. I don't want to hear about that clip anymore. Share it. I'm sick of seeing it. It's not impressive to me. Also, everybody is surprised

that it's not CGI, which means it just looks like the CGI would look. I know! That's the thing. It's sped up. It's like... So anyways, stop sharing that clip. I know. That's the thing. It's sped up. It's like, so anyways, stop sharing that clip. I'm sick of seeing it.

I'm sick of hearing about it. I just think about those poor people on that set that day who had a horrible day having to do that. And I don't think, I don't think, was it worth it? Was it worth it? I don't know. I think they could have focused more time and probably are the parts of the movie making me make it a little better than that.

Spending 16 hours. How do you feel about the movie in general? I don't remember the movie in general. He doesn't like superheroes. This is not a fair critique at all. No, but I'm not mad. I don't remember. I probably saw it in theaters when it came out,

but I don't even remember to spend all the thing being like, wow, you know what I mean? It's just a dumb trick. If I'm being truthful, there's something... Listen, I agree the video needs to stop being shared but i i'm i when they go that's practical effects as opposed to cgi i go that's

nice i like it too but i would like i would be great if then they apply that to everything i'm sick of seeing like game show like uh game like every Marvel movie feels like a video game to me like I build real sets I love that that would be cool sure but like

that I feel like for this thing why not just CGI that the thing is also it would be cool if somehow they could film it

and just waste Tobey Maguire's time like I agree with you like they're wasting the whole crew's time you know the crew is paid this is part of the thing if the crew was doing, what are they doing?

Making Spider-Man? I don't know. Getting a couple hours of extra sleep that day? It's true that you've completely brought me over to the other side. It's not that the crew is so excited to film one thing versus another. You're right. I bet it was boring for everyone. I don't think anyone was having fun that day. I want to hear a documentary from that

whole crew. I'm sure they got excited when it actually happened. Maybe they're actually excited because it's like, if you're filming just the same fucking scene all day, you don't have to keep changing

the lighting and this and that. Maybe it's an easy day for them. Listen, I just don't... I don't... It's not even the clips. It's no one's fault. It's just it's been shared too much. We all know now.

Everyone knows. Yeah. Everyone knows it. Anyways, that's a good one. I mean, but also, there's a problem right now with all of the social media ecosystem and Twitter especially where there's these echoing accounts that do whatever the viral video was from three days ago. The thing is, this is exactly like the comedy thing. It's like, oh, if you spend a lot of time online, you get to know what's been done before. But then there's all these people,

I don't know, what do they call them, locals or something? People who just don't spend as much time online and then they don't recognize what's been done before. In six months, my mom will be like, I saw this crazy thing on the internet. You know that scene from Spider-Man? Yeah, exactly.

94 takes. No, 156. I know it. Oh, wait, you really know the number? Yeah. Okay. Do you have. You really know the number? Okay. Do you have a this has got to stop? I had one about New Jersey. No, I had a bunch of

alternates. You want me to do another one? Sure. A thing that I think has got to stop, although this has also been discussed before in a sense, but right now I'm job hunting, right? So it's like every job interview you got to pretend, you know, they make you a dance about your passion for the job or whatever. And I'm like, I don't care.

I don't know why you want me to do this. I'm going to be a programmer. I'm going to write code for you, whatever. Do you need me to pretend that my life is about programming? So that's got to stop. And also, I don't think my job should get to know my real name i think i should get to use a fake name at work and my real name online on twitter and comedy whatever it's bizarre to me that the place where i have to use my real name is the thing that's not the real me

it's just the thing i do for living for money and then in my real life when i say my real opinions and stuff if i if i don't want my boss to look it up and get annoyed at some joke i make or something i got to use a fake name this revolutionary you want a full this is a big systematic change you want all jobs to have fake identities for their employees. Yeah. You can, you know, retreat, whatever shit you want. Yeah. Online. Exactly.

Interesting. I mean, don't you think your real life, I know your job is per the internet. For example, when you don't have to represent who you are and, and be tied to it, you become,

uh, less, less caring about the consequences of your behavior. They'll fire you there. Sure. If you're email trolling your co-workers, they'll still know that you work there. I'm saying you could do a

terrible job. You could be the worst employee ever, and no one would ever be able to spread the word that you suck. Oh, there's like a code. I'm not trying to be like a racist at work or something. No, no, no.

I just mean even bad. I just mean even bad. Or racist. Or anything. I would have, let's say, I'm sure a lot of people in the Me Too movement were like,

I wish I didn't give them my real name. Yeah, you have a work name that you carry from work to work. Yeah, exactly. If anybody wanted my references on my resume, I'd use the same name,

but it just wouldn't be the, I guess I'm describing severance or something. That is what you're describing. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even think about it that way. If I could just not think about anything else when I'm at work and then. But I'm not saying my brain should be decoded.

I'm saying my boss should not get to, for example, we were talking about politics and like Gaza earlier, right? There are all these people in my industry that do not like people who speak out against the treatment of the Gazans. I'm worried if they

see what I've posted online. Isn't that insane that my boss... Of course. Yes. Instead, I should have like a fake account that I give to work. And all it does is like post kitten photos or something. And they'd be like, oh, okay, this guy is a good worker. And then I go to use my real name for real things. All right.

That's good. I like it. Let's go into our final segment. for real things. All right. That's good. I like it. Let's go into our final segment.

You better count your blessings. You better count your blessings. Fun episode we learned. We got smarter. Do you have a blessing? Yeah, sure. Well, all right. I don't have a recent one. It's like six months old.

I haven't had anything to be grateful for in the last six months. But six months ago, I finished my PhD, and I am very grateful that this professor stepped in and read my dissertation in detail. He didn't know me in person or anything, but he just really stepped up and helped me with that. I feel very grateful for that. Do you print out a copy and keep it framed? Of my dissertation? Yeah. Do you have it anywhere? Keep like 130 pages framed on the wall. That would be a cool room. Just like a wall.

Yeah, like a whole thing. I think it's pretty. Did you get your PhD? Do you get a degree now? You mean like a diploma? Yeah, I do get a diploma. Do you frame it? No. Why would I care about framing it? Do you get a degree now? You mean like a diploma? Yeah, I do get a diploma. Yeah, yeah. Do you frame it? No. Why would I care about framing it?

It's like a doctor's office or something. Well, I don't remember I had a whole thing about that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sure. All right. That's a beautiful blessing. Yeah.

What's the title of your thesis? The title doesn't mean anything to even a mathematician to hear. It's just the names of the concepts I came up with in the dissertation. So it's called Introspective Theories and Geminal Categories. All right, we're going to put a link to that in the comments. Check it out. Russell, do you have a blessing? Yeah, I'll probably have more to say in the next time we talk.

Can you say it? February 6th. No, no, no no i can't uh but um i um well i'm gutenberg's ending so i i feel like you know i've been kind of struggling this week in terms of like mentally anytime there's like a big life kind of change i uh get a lot of anxiety about that um but i'm very thankful and grateful. You know, it's been an amazing experience. Obviously, I, you know, there's the fear of like, maybe this is just the nicest thing that ever happened

and that's it. But I've been very grateful and thankful to have been a part of it. After understudying in Gutenberg, that was the peak of Russell's. Well, it might be. It might be. Stranger things have happened in this sad, sad biz.

But so anyways, I've loved it. And everyone there was so kind and generous and supportive. And I'm very grateful to have been a part of it. And now that's done, can I message the leads and ask them to come to the pod? No. I can't? I don't think. No. Can I message the director the leads and ask them to come on the pod no i can't i don't think no can't message the director no uh no you know they do they do podcasts i don't know i would feel what's your what's your theory exactly with pockets let everyone else ask them to do their podcast but

you know them so no absolutely not for the podcast we want to grow you saw how i did it the last time the last show i was in, I waited until it was done for a while, and then I was like, okay, let's bring him on now. But I would never... One of them doesn't live here. The other one is not going to be around because he's doing something else.

Do I have to meet them in a different context in order to ask? No, but I mean, it's not even something that I would feel like we can talk offline about. Oh, God. I mean, it's sad. If you ever work with Russell,

that means you can't do the podcast. That's unfortunate. What a real twisted fucking system we've made here. My blessing, I've said it before, Liam Nelson, who opens for me on the road, I went with Liam and his good buddy and business partner, Ty Colgate. They opened for me together. They're buds. They're both younger. It's, uh, it's a fun dynamic. I will go out, I'll pay for the meal. I kind of feel like I kind of get some, some dads feel like a dad a little ways, but then other

ways we go do fun stuff. And then we were at this children's theater. We were headlining a show. And there were all these props backstage. And I'm such a little goody two-shoes. I never, I'm like, oh, wouldn't it be funny if I brought a prop on stage? Did something. Did something. And I'm always like, no, never. And then there was a little bike there.

And Liam's seven feet tall. And I thought it would be funny for him to go on the bike. And they were both like, oh, we'll do it. And I was like, no. And they're like, we will do it. And it was like enough positive reinforcement. And it was just a little thing at the end. Didn't really make sense.

The audience was very confused, ruined the show. But it was very. You got a little laugh for yourself. You got a little laugh. And it felt good. And I felt like, OK, good. I'm playing. I'm having fun.

Yeah. And so I'm very grateful. You know, sometimes I felt like, okay, good. I'm playing. I'm having fun. And so I'm very grateful. You know, sometimes I just like a two-person show, but being with having two people there, it just felt good. So Ty Colgate, Liam Nelson, follow him online. And this is coming out February 6th. Anything you want to plug? No, nothing.

Nothing? I don't know. Somebody needs to. Okay, yeah, you're right. I should plug my Twitter. My Twitter account, at Radish Harmers. You can find my jokes and whatnot there. It's very good jokes. I enjoy them a great deal.

So check it out. Russell. At Russell J. Daniels on Instagram. Follow me there. Some announcements coming soon. Very soon. Very exciting announcements. I'm in Sacramento this weekend.

Maybe tickets are still available. I'll be at West Nyack in New York, February 15th. That's what they want for Valentine's Day. Buy them tickets. And Albany, February 18th. And then remember, we've got a live podcast March 14th. L.A., we're coming for you, baby. We're coming.

Downside Live. The guest is not locked in yet, but I could tell you a very exciting list of people who have passed. But they said... And Debra. Debra. We know you're watching. We know you're listening.

No, we can't. We'll have you on. We'll have you on. What are we going to talk about? Not Israel, that's for damn sure This is The Downside One, two, three Downside Downside

You're listening to The Downside The Downside With Gianmarco Cerezi