The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #240.5 Tony Hinchcliffe and the “Art” of Stand-Up Propaganda

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

In this special report, Gianmarco and Russell critique Tony Hinchcliffe’s dumpster fire set at a Trump rally, and discuss the downsides of using stand-up comedy as propaganda.  You can watch full video of this mini-episode HERE! Join the Patreon free for 7 days for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and MORE. Follow The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi on Instagram Follow Gianmarco Soresi on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, & YouTube Subscribe to Gianmarco Soresi's email & texting lists Check out Gianmarco Soresi's bi-monthly show in NYC Get tickets to see Gianmarco Soresi in a city near you Watch Gianmarco Soresi's special "Shelf Life" on Amazon Follow Russell Daniels on Twitter & Instagram E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Paige Asachika & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Dave Columbo Technical production by Chris Mueller Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to a special, I don't even know what to call it. We've been recording some episodes, we've been a little bit in advance. We're trying to figure out a way that we can record and then release the very same day. And once in a while, once in a while, something happens and you go, you go, I really want to just talk about this. Especially with Russell. Remind me, were you at the Trump rally no I couldn't get you couldn't get tickets I couldn't get tickets I obviously there's been a lot of like general

talk about uh Tony Hinchcliffe um uh performing at this rally it feels it's so i think what's so uh infuriating is kind of a degree of like i feel like there was a long conversation about you know as as society became more aware or we were trying to make changes of like comedy that's what is comedy that's like are words harmful and suddenly like a lot of some comedians were like words are the same thing as violence. And and certain comedians were like condemned maybe for an old joke, maybe in a way that looking back, you go. It seemed like we were we were all a little bit high on our own fumes. Yeah. But at the same time, there was always a conversation of like of well, is it harmful? Is it is is that thing a joke or is it is it just hate speech?

And you seem to have fans that are idiots who you're just encouraging what they believe in and what's the line yeah blah blah blah yeah it's hard to argue oh sorry i didn't mean no please it's hard to argue that it's just a joke when you're appearing at a politician's rally where the whole thing is then that that person will be informing policy which affects of course groups of people in different ways well that's the betrayal where it felt like listen i and i was probably a little bit more um i was a little more like well guys we in the past of like you know we guys we should stop saying that but listen if you're a fan of comedy, comedians, comedians for the most part, are always going to be leaning more towards, yeah, you know, but you got to be able to like talk about things sometimes. That doesn't mean that we all agree with everything.

But I'm saying like if you get comedians privately around a table, they go, yeah, there should be space for jokes. And, yeah, some people do get overly sensitive. And yeah, we're supposed to just, you're going to like sand off everything. And that's what feels about this, like such a betrayal of even wanting that or having that hope. Because how can you say that anymore?

Yeah. When the comedians are no longer even just do listen it was questionable even in the bubble of comedy that's why podcasting was such a big thing where it was like well is it a joke if you're saying it for two hours talking about your own real life and just talking to people and it's not on a stage under the pretext of jokes but it was it was fuzzy and then suddenly you're literally propping up as close as you could possibly be to the people that enact physical changes the laws in this world and let me be clear you're appearing at a rally at a rally at a propaganda thing yeah and let me be clear this is obviously tinged by by personal beliefs yeah. And listen, I don't – fuck the Democratic Party.

Fuck the Democratic Party. And fuck – all these institutions are worthy of criticism. And you'd be right to say to me that, like, if there was a comedian who opened at the Kamala rally, I think they're lame as fuck for doing it. I think they're lame. I think they're lame. But let's also, because we're going into a week before this thing of like, there's not an equivalency of the two things. Of course. general thing as as friends and as the downside is that anyone appearing at any major the dnc rnc kind of thing that's it's a lame thing to do but particularly this with with what happened at this

with the trump rally though it's a whole different thing and it's it's this it's this it's this thing where you're like you can't be someone being like, well, let me say whatever I want to say. It's just comedy. It's just comedy. And then to be like at this where you're like, it's just policy. It's just how the whole country is being run. And let me just add on to it. Sorry.

It sucked. It's not funny. It bombed. And also, listen, I think it would be shocking to have a killer set at a rally. That's why you don't do comedy at rallies. But also, I think there is sometimes, like, we have some of the jokes here. And I just really, sometimes the conversation becomes, oh, you're offended. Oh, but, and I go, it's also bad.

It's just that it's bad, too. And it's bad comedy because the views that are espoused within it are simplistic. They're hateful. But let's even put the word hateful away because then they go, oh, you're just being a lip. They're simplistic. simplistic, being racist, being anti-Semitic, being homophobic. They're so dumb and simple in like the connection that you've made, you go, well, that inferior, that bad. And because that's the complexity, the nuance of thought, no great comedy can spring from that yeah so so i go back to and i said it online i said there are way better racist comedians that could have opened

up this show for sure but this is also bad comedy and unfortunately especially as it's this close to the election it becomes very easy for for people to go oh you're just making a big stink about it because you're jealous of the success and you're going to vote for Kamala or you're going to vote for Kamala or you just don't support the thing that they're saying or you just Trump the derangement syndrome you're like all the things

are true I am voting for Kamala you do have Trump derangement syndrome I don't agree with those things. But you're like, there is just something where you're like, but you're not doing comedy anymore. You're not doing that. You're not a comedian. You're, I don't know what now.

You're a minister of propaganda. Yeah, yeah. You're Joseph Goebbels. So let's play one of these clips. It is absolutely wild times. It really, really is. And, you know, there's a lot going on. Like, I don't know if you guys know this, but there's literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now.

Yeah. I think it's called Puerto Rico. Okay. All right. Okay. We're Puerto Rico. Okay. All right. Okay. We're getting there. Okay. Wait, can you say, he says something about the national, I don't normally keep going.

Oh, that was the end? Okay. Let's just, let's be a total bitch about this. One of the least charismatic human beings I've ever seen in my entire goddamn life. Well, let's, let's see. Here's a, here's a long kind of, first of all, you're doing 10 minutes at Madison Square Garden at madison square garden tighten it up baby let's get some little let's get some little sub racist jokes in there and and it's it's literally it's out of nowhere it's it's like so uh what else what else this guy in a suit at madison what else what else what else was i thinking about let me check this

out real quick i think too no. This is just to keep us. Oh, the Trump? You want it to be dressed up? That's the other thing. You're like, there's something so sad about being like, well, they asked you to be a comedian on it. Go be a comedian on it. Do wear what you'd normally wear as a comedian.

Sure. You put on a suit? Like, it's so pathetic. You know what I mean? It's just so like, oh, you dressed real nice for the hopeful president. It's just so like oh you dressed real nice for for for for the hopeful present it's just so yeah yeah it's so bootlicker you're gonna go to church after this oh you fucking god and and it's just it's so embarrassing every aspect of the joke it doesn't make sense in context of what i mean let's critique it as a set it's like what why that

sudden turn why are you bringing this up out of nowhere yeah it's very funny i mean and let me be clear it's very funny no it's very funny that like yeah i just that's little twist on you i actually think it's funny how do you trap me into this but i think they like i i want to tell you and let me hear this from the bottom of my heart offensive jokes for the most part i don't give a shit i don't give a shit i don't go i don't clutch my pearls about the offensiveness of the joke in fact i would say that one of my things that bothers me so much about this is that it just feels like it takes a big fucking doodoo shit in the pool of my art form that like suddenly it's like you know no longer is it even just is is is it okay

to joke about anything now it's like is comedy propaganda is that what what people are expect that you need to go somewhere and have like your most base views realized and again it's not it's it's this most simple joke that place sucks that place is trash yeah that's the flip that's the flip okay let's do the this next because this one if this is the israel palestine one that this is a yeah let's pull that one up because this is an incredible uh a setup to deliver uh oh here we go okay when it comes to israel and palestine we're all thinking the same thing. Settle your stuff already. Settle your stuff already.

Best out of three. Rock, paper, scissors. You know the Palestinians are going to throw rock every time. But you also know the Jews have a hard time throwing that paper. You know what I'm saying? When it comes to Israel. Okay. Crazy.

Okay. Okay. What were you going to say? I can see the writer's room. Crazy to use the word settle and then not have any sort of connection to it. This is someone with absolutely no opinion on Israel-Palestine. Not even the slightest even whiff of a thing. And I can see the writer's room of like, well, we got to talk about Israel-Palestine.

You know, that's a spicy topic. Who is in this writer's room? Okay. I mean, God, you can't tell because they're all wearing fucking masks. And they're sitting there. Okay, so they fight. You just want it to be done. Like, okay, oh, rock.

They throw rock. Okay, so we'll say okay, oh, rock. They throw rock. Okay, so we'll say rock, paper, scissors. An insane premise. Yeah. Given the complexity and the changes and all the things that this war is to go just settle it already. Doesn't mean anything. Just doesn't mean anything. It's just so you can go, I'm going to get to this rock, joke, and paper.

And I know where it started. By the way, I can pinpoint where the joke started. Let's make a joke about Jews. Okay, Jews are cheap. Fighting, rock, paper, scissors, paper. The paper one came first. And he was so excited, so excited at the Trump who's ready to give Israel everything they want. This is why it was foolish to hire a comedian in the first place

because he's just like, he doesn't know Palestinian jokes. He knows Jew jokes. Trust me, this guy is well-versed in Jew jokes. And just to be clear, as you might know from my comedy, I'm not offended by a Jewish joke. Paper? And to hold it paper, like a little like kind of like, that's like when an old guy goes, what up, my dogs?

Paper, this old fuck. And so the whole thing, it doesn't make sense. You didn't say anything about the war. You didn't say throwing rocks feels like honestly like a dated kind of Palestinian joke from a long time ago that they're throwing rocks. joke from a long time ago that they're throwing rocks. And then the joke about Jews being cheap, which by the way, in terms of the war, a lot of money is getting spent. A lot of American money. A lot of Jews who have no problem with the money going to war. So it doesn't fit.

It's bad comedy. It's bad comedy. It's bad comedy. It's bad comedy. Can we go to the last? I know there's one just on a clip, but the other Tony clip, I forget which one this is. This might be the P. Diddy one. Would someone wrote me on Instagram? Are you just mad because it's true?

I welcome migrants to the United States of America with open arms. And by open arms, I mean like this. Waving his arms. It's wild. And these Latinos, they love making babies, too. Just know that. They do. They do.

There's no pulling out. They don't do that. They come inside, just like they did to our country. Man, oh, man republicans of the party with a good sense of humor i want that's that's fun stuff that's fun stuff hey guys remember remember we're the guys that like these jokes it's like being trapped it's like being trapped on a bachelor party where you don't know anyone and you're like you're the one that came from somewhere and you're like oh no this is who this person that i'm friends with is friends with uh-huh that is the feeling of watching this set

it's like you're you're like you're like two beers in and you're just trapped with and you realize you've realized the mistake that's been made yeah agreeing to come for this weekend with this group of people and you're trapped and you're talking to a guy like that and you're like and and it's like he knows that you're a performer of some kind and he's like i got jokes too and then it's that that is what the jokes are yeah and you're like holy shit you've never had one original fucking thought in your head. And it's just the bare base minimum lowest thing of like what gets a reaction out of people.

It's so... Well, that's where you can feel the whiff out of the roast battles. And listen, I always tell people, and this is again why it makes me mad, I love roast battles. Yeah. I love joke writing for the sake of joke writing.

But especially when you take it out of the context of a roast battle where you're like i'm just gonna make fun of that person or like or twist something on them in a rally it's like and this is why there's some great roast comedians who can't do stand-up for shit it's like but what's your point of view in a roast battle you're just like i'm gonna fucking insult this motherfucker outside of it it's like well what is your point of what do you think And you can tell the way he says that, that like, I don't think he even has an opinion on Latinos. I'd rather get like someone up there who's inauthentic.

Maybe they got some real passion in their voice. But dear Christ almighty, he's just- I don't know if that man feels a goddamn thing. Not a goddamn thing other than like, wow, more people listening to me right this moment. Wow. Can you look up the P. Diddy one real quick, though? I know we have this, Jessenick, though, because he had someone wrote me.

And again, this is what happens. And I understand you can only engage so much. But people will write, they'll go, oh, you mad about the P. Diddy because it's true? Yeah, sure. It's true. Diddy, because it's true. Yeah, sure. It's true.

You think I'm standing here like, no, Hollywood is not full of fucking sex freaks and pedophiles and sexual assaulters. But also, so is the fucking every political party, including Trump, who there's pictures of him with Jeffrey Epstein. There's pictures of him and they hung out and they met each other. there's pictures of him and they hung out and they met each other he met Trump's kids and he met his kids if you know what I mean there is this crazy thing where I'm like yeah I don't care about

Hollywood I don't care about Taylor Swift the P. Diddy one so many great athletes I don't know about you guys but I think that Travis Kelsey might be the next OJ Simpson. The other side's got a lot of crazy endorsements. Swift, Eminem, Leo DiCaprio, Beyonce. Every day the Democratic Party looks more and more like a P. Diddy party. like a P Diddy party.

Oh. Oh, okay. It really is. We don't have time to get into the whole tangent of this the insane way that like both, listen, both parties both sides are filled. Again, if you were like I'm going to take down everyone at

P Diddy and you're going to take down Hollywood, great. I'm the first one to be like, take them down. Great. I don't care. You're telling me that all these comedian podcasters

who make Epstein jokes, I make Epstein jokes, and you were sitting across the guy who's been in multiple pictures at different times of his life with Epstein, and you didn't even mention it yeah you didn't mention it and that's all you seem to fucking talk about you're fucking insane

you're insane and they don't even give a they don't even go to explain especially like the supporters who would probably cheer it up the joke they don't even seem to explain why why was trump hanging out with them they don't even seem to explain why. Why was Trump hanging out with them? They don't even go like, well, they were friends. They had good conversations. They don't even, they just, as if it wasn't there. It would be funny

if they put out a press release, why was Trump, and you're like, they were friends. They had really good conversations about arts and culture and growing up in New York. Some people went to Epsi's Island

for the cornhole, you know? They had a really good food. Cornhole tournaments that he put on yeah and let's play so this last clip to close this out so Justin Nick

as we all know love love always been a big fan and I just think this for those of you who aren't like

comedy aficionados I think one of the reasons Justin Nick always gets brought up sometimes in these conversations is he he was like

he was the prince of darkness like there was a whole branding of his jokes are really dark or they're fucked up or he and he got in trouble for them now and then and like you know uh I would say less along the the realms of insulting Puerto Rico in its entirety but more like if there was a tragedy like he would make a joke about that tragedy and I think a lot of comedians were inspired by that and thought that they, they took the wrong lesson of a, like, I'm just going to go along this path as opposed to viewing him as like an

incredible artist that who's built an individual thing. But also they thought like they, they, they may be, maybe they didn't have the joke writing talent or in this today's world, we need to make content so much. You don't have time to fine tune, but they just said, Oh, they may be, maybe they didn't have the joke writing talent or in this today's world, we need to make content so much. You don't have time to fine tune, but they just said, oh, offensive is funny. People being mad is, is funny.

And, and I think this really encapsulates, and this is just so Nick, uh, uh, so play this clip. Yeah. And all these comics now, it's like almost the point is to get in trouble. It's like, why are you giving me shit? I'm, I'm a comic. I'm allowed to say whatever I want. That's as far as i'm concerned art always say it again so i don't miss it people think like oh as a comic your job is to get in trouble and so if but they don't want to get yelled at it's like it's okay to make people mad but they don't want

any pushback and i think that's wrong as a comedian you want to make people laugh andy this is a quote attributed to andy warhol that i love it's just art is getting away with it you know if you put out a special and everyone's pissed like you didn't get away with it you know you need to make everyone laugh that they're like yeah you talked about this fucked up stuff but we're all happy that's art otherwise you're just a troll yeah and i'm sure theovan was just looking down thinking about when he could book Trump during this otherwise incredible exchange. But it's...

Oh, Trump just said yes. Good, good, good. And I just... Listen, every facet of society is breaking. And I think because of social media and the internet, we feel it. But as people who love comedy, I think because of social media and the internet we feel it but as as people who love comedy I think like they're just this this feels just like the the head of of a thing that

has been building and building and building and it happens so fast first Tucker Carlson is on Kill Tony and you go like what what what is this why why is Alex Jones who uh uh yeah you you can believe the government is fucked up and you can believe a lot of it should be torn down and everyone's lying to you. But this is a guy, total tangent, but this is a guy who the conspiracy theories about Sandy Hook meant that parents whose children were shot in their school were harassed by people claiming they were faking their child's death. And then why are you having this guy on the comedy show? It's just because you know it pisses off people. You know it's going to get views. Or maybe you enjoy talking to this person. But if you have no taste, if you have no opinion,

if you have no moral take, even if it's different from what society might deem the exact thing, it's not interesting it's just it's just like going to a dinner party and shitting in the middle of the table yeah maybe maybe someone is gonna find that funny who hated everyone at the dinner party but you didn't do anything you just you just made shit yeah you you and in this case it's worse than that because, listen, and again, I'll reiterate, it is fucking unbearable and insane to go that the Democrats that are in power right now are continuing to fund a genocide and that they clearly are not doing anything to make any kind of alteration to it. And it's incredible that we have a two-party system, but both parties seem to be completely aligned on this one thing, which is that fuck people who are not Americans. And particularly if they're not white, they know there's not going to be a lot of pushback en masse and they're just going to keep funding this shit.

It's fucking insane. And I understand people who go to that point and go, well, then there's nothing else to talk about. And I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that. But right now, looking at the context of these two parties, you go that there is an undercurrent of a – and maybe they don't want to call themselves white supremacists. Maybe there's no point in calling anyone a Nazi. But there is an undercurrent, and it is an undercurrent of white people that are angry and have decided to blame,

as is the white person's tradition, as is the want of the whites, to blame people who are not white, to blame gay people, to blame trans people, and to somehow, in the midst of having the richest guy in the world and a guy who's known for business deals, and to put them on a pedestal and not go, all these rich people are kind of fucked up. And I wish that's what we could coalesce around. But to see comedy and to use comedy, people want to laugh. And to use your ability to make someone laugh, and listen, I don't think Tony Hinchcliffe could make a lot of people laugh, but I'm talking about a wide spectrum of comedians, some of whom are talented, some of whom are funny, some of whom I would watch their set. I would watch their set to watch them so callously as if as if it just nothing matters at all to use their laughter as a hook to bring more people into this this fucked up movement.

It's it's despicable and it it it makes it it just poisons what the art form is. Comedy is such a delicate art form, man. I don't think painters deal with this as much of like, oh, I mean, I guess, you know, maybe if you're painting propaganda, sure. But like the form itself is so vulnerable to people being like, you just don't think it's funny because you disagree. And people go back on, well, it's all subjective. And I go, I don't, I think just thinking that as some kind of adage and nothing matters is a nihilism that doesn't make good art. And ultimately when you see someone at a rally, you go further and you go, oh, it wasn't nihilism. It wasn't cynicism. It was just about. It wasn't poking at the systems that be and questioning things.

It's that you just want power yeah and you're you're a white guy and and i'm sure in this party there's there's some people are not white but you you you know the general thrust of what this shit is stop fucking around yeah stop fucking around you know what it is you know what's around you you know what the fan base responds to and when you go and do this this rally first of all i think you're a piece of shit number one for your your views and then number two i go you're not a comedian you're a politician go be a fucking politician and and get the fuck out of comedy clubs. And you suck.

You suck, dude. You fucking suck. I don't know what else to say. You're an embarrassment. Caleb put it really well just in terms of when you lack talent. Which, by the way, it hurts. I have certain things that I wanted in my life that i lack the talent to have yeah and let me tell you if there is a way that because i lack the talent to be a singer

that like if i was more racist i could have a broadway career i might be at the trump rally too singing the national anthem i don't know but that's not to be admired no no any any closing thoughts no i mean i think you summed it up well i i um i uh i it's it's it's it just doesn't belong it's just two worlds where you can't do both you at certain point you can't do it you know you're either a comedian or you're a propagandist and you can't do both you can't you can't and again i go back to it's it's also bad comedy and bad comedy is tied to bait this is why propaganda is generally not funny because propaganda what what is propaganda i want you in the army that's's the thought. That's the thesis. That's how many jokes can you make that are in support of that basic statement?

That's the difference between comedy, which elevates and expands and makes you think. If you want people to join the army, if you want people to vote for the person, even if you don't like them if then then then the goal wasn't to be funny it was to get them to do that thing and really funny things are not going to emerge from that so there is this conflation where i go it's it's shitty and it's bad and it's bad because it's shitty this is the downside. You're listening to the downside with John Marco Cerezi. Debbie Downsiders, thank you for watching this episode. We're very grateful. If you have a Spotify or an Apple podcast, please subscribe. Rate us. Subscribe on the podcast thing.

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