The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #242 The Downside of Recording a Podcast After The Election

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

In this special post-election episode, we’re joined by comedian Lucas Zelnick to discuss the downsides of Trump’s reelection and America’s subsequent demise. Normally this would be a Patreon exclusive but figured it might be nice for everyone to hear for free. Please consider to join the Patreon for two free (topical) episodes every month: www.patreon.com/downside Follow Lucas on Instagram, YouTube, & TikTok See Lucas in a city near you: https://www.lucaszelnick.com/ Listen to Lucas' podcast, Can I Go Home Now? Follow The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi on Instagram Follow Gianmarco Soresi on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, & YouTube Subscribe to Gianmarco Soresi's email & texting lists Check out Gianmarco Soresi's bi-monthly show in NYC Get tickets to see Gianmarco Soresi in a city near you Watch Gianmarco Soresi's special "Shelf Life" on Amazon Follow Russell Daniels on Twitter & Instagram E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Paige Asachika & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Dave Columbo Technical production by Chris Mueller Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One, two, three! Downside! You're listening to The Downside with Gianmarco Cerezi. Okay, I'll say the few funny things. We have to, at least for this, find something amusing. I have a friend, I checked in with him

before I bring this up. The last couple of years they've been struggling with like suicidal thoughts and it's been going they've been doing better but they kind of you know they're not online and so late at night my on and off suicidal friend was uh texting me like hey so what are the updates oh and and i was like i really i don't know i don't know what kind of possible also were they in the woods why they just they just don't they're just kind of like glance like maybe they look at like the they have a weird like they look at the bbc for some reason or but they're just disconnected and so i i'm like how do i how I don't want, I mean, honestly, it's looking like we should all kill ourselves. And I.

What did you say? I said, oh, it's not looking great. But like I always tell you, things can get better. Oh, my God. Where were you? Oh my God. Oh. Where were you? Partially at a comics watch party. I didn't see at any point,

it didn't seem to be going well for liberals. No point. No point. No point. Actually, I was at a party and I was like that thing where I felt like right away, something came out and it was like showing an exit poll and I was like, that's so felt like right away something came out and it was like showing an exit poll.

And I was like, that's so bad. That's so bad that. And, and, and, and I felt like everyone at the party was in denial for like another hour or so.

Yeah. Like they were all like, they, you know, they were all like people. I was like watching people in slow motion laughing and like, and I was like, why are you laughing?

Like I, I was like the Republican always leads early. And I'm like, it was that true? Everyone's like, the Republican always leads early. And I'm like, is that true? I don't think that was true. But those Georgia early exit stuff, I was like, fuck me. That's bad news. I think, in my mind, the stupid thing is they said Pennsylvania was like 150% compared to 2020 in terms of turnout. And I've been so trained to believe high turnout means Democrats win.

And it's like, nope, not anymore. People are squeezing out of the aisle 11 of Walmart to go vote. I will say I had dinner with, you know, Senator Jeff Flake. Uh-huh. He was the guy who like, he basically turned against Trump during.

He turned against Trump. His big moment was he, when Kavanaugh was being confirmed, he was the Republican to be like, I don't know about all this Kavanaugh stuff. And then he has become known as like a moderate Republican and turned against Trump and then endorsed Harris in this election. I had dinner with him last night with my family. Are you serious?

Yes. Oh, serious? Yes. Yeah. Oh, great. Classic. Sorry to come on the podcast and be myself, but... You're like, I actually had dessert with Trump. Yeah. I had dinner with him and his wife and then a biographer, my parents, and we had dinner at the grill, which is this really fancy new york restaurant that used to be called the four seasons separate from sure yeah the grill in the pool it's just really whatever opulent like like table side preparation white cloth waiters and i'm with these politicians at dinner and we're all sort of watching trump win and i was like ah this feels like a really good setting for like a violent civil war style coup that like i felt like this is where i'm

gonna die like the white table talk is a perfect backdrop for the blood of the rich yes it felt it felt like that it felt like that for those of you tuning in uh this is it's it's a patron exclusive i think we're just going to release it wide i hope our patrons will understand basically we recorded uh a lot of a lot of episodes i think too many or too many uh before the election too many that now are going to be so awful when you listen to this what the fuck what the fuck no we we you know there's probably like three minutes in each episode where're gonna go like i i hate i hate hearing you going like who knows yeah but um but then i get good so the the point is the patreon this is the place where you get the quicker turnaround we're gonna release this i think publicly for the most part if you want the up-to-date stuff join the patreon patreon.com

slash downside but this is just for just anyone who likes it and you know needs just to listen to something right now and we wanted to get uh the perspective of the working rural class we downside but this is just for just anyone who likes it and you know needs just to listen to something right now and we wanted to get uh the perspective of the working rural class we brought on lucas elnick today um when you were at that dinner yeah with jeff flake i know i couldn't pass it up when my parents offered what was the how, how did he, how was he like, we got this? No. No. No.

Well, listen, the exit polls looked bad. So the, so I was with Jeff Flake, his wife, a Pulitzer Prize winning biographer of American presidents. And. What was this, an election themed dinner party? Kind of. And then the, yeah, because my parents want to be clued in. And then the wife of the editor-in-chief of The New Yorker, who he was sending her texts during dinner

and saying it's really not looking good. My team says it doesn't look good. And then Jeff was kind of upset because I think Jeff would have loved maybe an appointment in the cabinet. Sure, a common promise. a lot of Republican appointments. He was on the list, I guess, for Secretary of State. Someone tweeted, Kamala, I wish there's going to be a ton of Republicans in the cabinet now.

So you're getting updates throughout the dinner. How late did the dinner go? Jeff had to leave to go on NBC. And then I stayed because there was dessert. Yeah. And then I went to a comics watch party. I think dinner went to like 8.30. Listen, I was really tired and it was not looking good.

And I knew I was going to be up early with that feeling of dread. Because that's how I woke up. I woke up like I had been drunk the night before and had said things I regretted. Like it was that so i knew that i didn't have any hope when i went to bed and i figured i'd wake up to the news that he had been elected and i did and i was up very early yeah and yeah tova had truly one of the worst so i i took an ambien last night and needed something i mean i was just you know and then tova had a night terror and it was like three in the morning and she

it seems like she's fully conscious and she was furious at me she's like why didn't you let me vote why didn't you fucking let me vote did you and i'm like i didn't and listen that's why new york went blue no but it was like it was so and like i was went blue no but it was like it was so and like i was it's to being in a relationship we're all in relationships it really is tough because it all feels it all feels really awful i certainly and and like you can't just fully lean on each other like there's no i think about when i was a kid and i could just have someone older and just like just go i'm i'm scared yeah yeah they go it's okay it's okay and like when you're in a relationship and you both feel this like pit yeah you both have to like you have to self-monitor because sometimes you get each other riled up and it makes things

worse actually yeah yeah or you get sometimes you're like well and then you're like sometimes they're telling you it's not that big of deal or something or and you're like, well, and then you're like, sometimes they're telling you it's not that big of a deal or something, and you're like, what? Or vice versa. It's just... I woke up in Bushwick, Brooklyn, and went to a coffee shop, which is, I mean, you've never seen so many devastated liberals in one room.

At a coffee shop in Bushwick, it was like being at ground zero on September 12th. You felt like the... It feels different. Everything was... The flag was flying half-mast. The Mac DeMarco EP was at 50% volume.

It's weird having been here for 2016. It doesn't feel the same. I think 2016 was shock. And this feels like defeat. Do you know what I mean? doesn't feel the same I think 2016 was shock and this feels like defeat do you know what I mean there's such a reality I'm out of gas

right now and I'm defeated but this is how it gets fixed because he's going to have the presidency and the senate and for all we know the house we don't know yet and then poor white people are going to have the presidency and the Senate and for all we know the House, we don't know yet. And then poor white people are going to be poor and then they're going to be like

pissed. Well, that's the only way it fixes. Will they? I think. I mean, how much... By the way, if he makes them richer, then he fulfilled his promise. Sure, sure. You know? No, I guess

the only bleak home is like listen fascist governments or whatever you'd like to call it have come and gone things nothing lasts forever that's really i'm gonna die before trump does i just know it let me just so okay i went to i i really I really thought I'd be able to talk about it in a much different framework, but I went to a rally in North Carolina. And I was so curious. Impassionate. What was so weird is it felt like, not like I was into some secret, but to witness people leaving. Okay, so to witness Trump like arrive.

Just to be clear, you didn't go to the rally to support. No. I went as an investigative journalist. Like a Daily Show correspondent who has not been booked by the Daily Show. I went to a Trump rally. Like hoping that you'd run into Jordan Klepper there and have him be like, you want to interview some people actually? I've seen your stuff

Yeah yeah yeah Or I'd be like Do you want me to play one of the I'll be the guy And you can ask me It It was like You know

The Trump came like really late And the plane flies in And then backs up And they They go on the There's just like shitty music That was repeating the same three

songs and all musical artists i know it's been said enough but all musical artists who would hate who would hate to be played there yeah who wouldn't be caught dead there and like people dancing to like the gayest songs in the world and you're like how do you but so he comes the plane first the plane comes down and then it goes back up and everyone's confused. And I'm like, maybe he's, maybe he decided not to come by. And it was very small. It was very small. Like it was a.

The rally or the plane? The rally. The rally was like 2000 people. I was confused. I thought rallies were just bigger. And I don't even mean like in a way of there were a lot of empty seats. It's just like, it seemed like a small thing. No tickets. You just go less security than a lot of empty seats. It's just like it seemed like a small thing. No tickets.

You just go less security than TSA at the airport. It was surreal. And then like 30 minutes later, the plane comes back down. It backed up. They were playing the Undertaker's theme music, which is like ominous, like death is arriving. And I was like, this is crazy that you're playing this right now. And then as he walked down, then they changed it to,

I'm proud to be an American. He comes out. He's so, there's no energy. He's hoarse. And it's just got, it's got nothing. It's got no momentum. It's got no charge. And we had to leave after 15 minutes because we had to

go to our show yeah and all these people were leaving with us and i just thought i thought like oh it's it's it feels like people are over it right people literally the the person that is the guy on their shirt he's right there and you're leaving after 15 minutes? Yeah. So it felt like in that moment, I think that's where I got my false sense of, oh, no, I think it's done. Even the biggest fans don't even want to stick around because they're tired of standing. Yeah. But I was wrong. You know what? I get that.

But I was at a bar downtown in Soho watching the Yankees World Series. This was like a week or two ago. And I was talking to my friend about what we were thinking about the election. And he was like, you know, I actually have probably as many, we're both New York Jewish kids. And he was like, I think I have as many friends voting for Trump as I do Kamala. And I was like, wow, that's crazy. And then this young white woman, younger than us, probably 23 years old, turned to us, brazenly, I might add, she was not invited to the conversation, and goes, good. And in the same night, another young white woman, not part of the same friend group,

came up to us. The Yankees had just lost. And then they were showing a news clip with a Kamala speech on the TV. And she goes, first the Yankees lose. Now they're playing a video of Kamala Harris, double loss. So twice in a bar in Soho in New York city, among 20 early twenties, white women, I saw like flagrant support for Trump. And I was like, Oh, well, if it's here, I mean, I've already done Naples, Florida on the road. And I saw what that was, which was the gay people are Trumpers. The black people are Trumpers. The trans people are Trumpers. Like once I saw that in Naples, I was like, okay, that's Naples. And then I came back to New York and I saw that happening here and I was like,

Hmm, it's not looking great. So after that experience, I sort of was resolved to, to the big old L. I think what was weird seeing seeing him without any juice or gas i like i thought it was about him i thought like people liked his charisma or whatever and then i saw that and i was like it's really it's he's old you really when you see someone talk for 15 minutes in a row unedited, you go, Jesus Christ, you're an old guy. Who would be excited about this? And so now I don't even know.

In my mind, I thought when he passes away, which time would dictate has to occur at some point. Not anytime soon. That guy's going to live a long time. That it would be a real big blow to everything. And maybe it will. Maybe it's literally the specter or the image or like it doesn't even matter. But I thought it was the character. I thought maybe it is the character, but it's just no longer the person itself.

I think it's become beyond that. I think the problem is we've all been, even. It became a counterculturalist movement. And that's really the problem. Because we all started listening to Zach Bryan wearing Carhartt and it became cool to make mainstream what the middle of the country was feeling. the country was feeling. Like when you listen to country music, which has had its moment in the last couple of years, you're sort of embodying those feelings. And I don't think that impacts everyone, but I think you kind of get into that mode and you become that a little bit. Like, I think, I think it's just more like Republicanism became badass again from being old and white. And that cycle happened in front of our very eyes, certainly in pop culture. I mean, I'm wearing fucking Carhartt pants that I bought in the South that are like some, some one was a mechanic that owned these and now I'm wearing them in the lower

East side and that's cool. And, uh, that's what happened. And if you do that for enough young people, cause that was the big story of last night is all the young people, right? Yeah, they said this idea of Gen Z is going to save us or that Gen Z is... Yeah, but what's interesting, though, is because I saw someone saying, you know, like some... I deleted Twitter because I was like, I can't actually...

And who knows how long that'll last, but I wanted to... I said to Tova, I said, Russell's leaving Twitter and I don't have anyone to talk about it. She said, don't trust anything that anyone does today is a permanent thing. But I do think that I was just like,

I can't, I think how things swing so much of like, if I was on Twitter like the last 48 hours before the election, what people were saying in terms of of of my expectation of things was crazy then to see and i was like i can't have that whiplash in my day-to-day life as much as i've been having it so i i think but people anyways someone was saying on there

about uh you know we need our own joe rogan and you're like i don't know what that even means because you're like there's pop there's plenty of people who are talking from a more left perspective, but I don't think it's about like, how do you make them Joe Rogan? When it's like what people are into is like the kind of conspiracy theory stuff, the like, kind of like,

you can't replicate, you know what I mean? Like, I think that that's what ultimately a lot of Americans are into. I don't think it's about finding a replicate. You know what I mean? I think that that's what ultimately a lot of Americans are into. I don't think it's about finding a person. You know what I mean? You know what sort of explains it to me? Okay, so my...

I've talked about this on here, but my sister has special needs, right? Yeah. And my mom decided to get my sister... My mom's very civically engaged and very left-leaning and was trying to get out the vote for Kamala, blah, blah, blah. My mom got my sister a ballot. And my dad was like, I don't know about all that. Like, I don't think you can use your daughter to Trojan horse your way back into the polls for like a second Kamala vote. And my mom went to like an election, uh, like a polling advocate. And they were like,

it's actually really important. I think that people with special needs get the opportunity to vote and it's, you know, their civic duty and they should be as much a part of our society as anyone else. And so my mom told my sister that, and then my sister said, I'm voting for Trump. And, uh, and my sister doesn't conceptualize these things like but by the way it was hilarious within 30 seconds to see my mom go from like everybody needs a voice to like she's fucking retarded like like don't listen to her she's i'm sorry she's a democrat and uh and uh but you know what i think my sister was picking up on is just like my sister she can tell when someone's being a fucking cop like and my mom had this real energy of like you really need

to do this thing this thing for me and for everyone the good thing to do is this and it's this like copy parental vibe that makes i that i think has made young people be like well what the then no there's like a it's this isn't the right word this is a bad but there is like a troll kind of like thing of like now like you know i mean like yeah there is a thing of a response of being like kind of a culture of of like oh it's so important no it's not you know like that kind of thing but what's that blend of like i think about all these people who were so you know pro pro cop and obviously there's a hypocrisy they want pro cop for the things that matter to them but it really is is wild to see the the embracement that they're all the shirts were like i'm voting for the felon

and it's so funny because someone on twitter said, can we get rid of the question on job applications that said, am I a convicted felon? Because it's just, how do you appeal to that? I don't see any. I think the problem is about this idea of like, what's the liberal Joe Rogan? It's like, you can't just do it that way. It's a different kind of movement and it's a movement based on i think it's so honestly it's a more socialist ground-up populist helping people and it's it's ultimately looking at these rich fucks if anything i think looking how these rich but i mean like let's just

if we could just stay away from insulting the rich. It's actually really not funny. But what were you saying? I think if there's anything there's there's like you saw Jeff Bezos, who blocked. I don't care about who Washington Post endorses, but kind of blocked Washington Post endorsing Canada. Then today had his nice tweet of like, congratulations, Donald Trump. We're so excited, blah, blah, blah. And all these big tech people kind of going just to reveal oh none of them are were these liberal darlings and to really witness it and ultimately my only hope is that if things

don't get better and all these powers that be coalesce around the the conservative president that will eventually start to be lame but i don't i don't know if that's i think that's that's what has to happen plus he's old like the guy's not i don't see him that's... I think that's what has to happen. Plus, he's old. Like, the guy's not... I don't see him... How can he get another term? He won't. The big question, though, is what happens after Trump? Like, I do think it's so much of the lifeblood of this movement is him.

Like, I just... When you see a goofy person like J.D. Vance, you're like, is that going to be your guy? Like, are all of you going to coalesce around that guy? I think this guy, I think it will be like, sure. I think, I think Trump's next few years will, after seeing that, 15 minutes. I think it's like Biden, where this guy is extremely old. He didn't want to release his medical records. He's so old that there will be, the difference in him abiding is i think

trump will refuse to not be public facing and you're gonna see it and the question is i i wish you could hear an unreal actual conversation between jd vance and his people about like what their plan is because i think listen everyone who worked with trump everyone thinks that they can work with him and ride the wave out and time and time again almost all of them get fucked yeah yeah you know i think the thing that he's done that will last forever is he's exposed how allergic certain people are to the ways in which career politicians speak to us. But that doesn't have to be partisan. Like I do think, I could see Joe Rogan becoming the president.

Just because people are like, I don't want to hear, because J.D. Vance is still a politician. Like all these other people are politicians. The thing that is compelling about Trump is that he's not. Sure. I think one of the

things with trump is like it's rare i don't think joe someone like joe rogan would ever want to be president like it's i don't think i don't think it's a particularly fun through this podcast right now i just don't think it's like a fun job no but listen i think that i think the reason there's a lot of career politicians. Joe Rogan likes UFC. I don't think he's like into like lighthearted fun. Yeah.

That's like a skull bash. Fucking UFC. It is one of those things of, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The question is,

at least on the Democratic side is, who is, is this going to make people fucking. I know people are so exhausted. There's clearly not this energy of like people marching right now. Right. But like, is it going to shake up anything in terms of the Democratic power?

democratic power will people be so fucking bummed and so fucking like jesus christ the same fucking shit again yeah that that people will go who the fuck knew about this about biden they'll release in the books like yeah in the second day of biden's term he shit his pants and no one said anything and it's like all those stories that would ideally make people go, well, fuck, fuck these people. Just the line of the Democratic Party. We'll see what happens. I would think there has to be some soul searching when you see, when you're banking for so long on young people being like, oh, and Republicans at some point, they're not going to be there because, you know, we're going to get younger people and they're more and more liberal, blah, blah, blah. And then having that bubble burst and being like, oh, that's not, you can't just hope that the younger people will vote for you. That, I feel like, burst, that there has to be some sort of,

you would hope. Yeah, there was this assumption of, well, finally when this generation dies, we'll be free. You would hope that there's, I mean, you would hope there'll be some sort of recognition of that, you know. But it's a lot of work. It might just be like celebrities from here on out.

You think, yeah, just like, oh, we gotta find our own Trump. But also, I don't know, Rosie O'Donnell. They were in a fight once. Who's liberal Trump? But I think the problem is we see, and this is the same with Hillary, and I think sometimes I get re-shocked where I'm like, yeah, all

these celebrities coalesce around the Democratic. There's always a joke of like what celebrities are into the Republicans and it's like Mel Gibson and then some E-list actors. And then you look and you go, yeah, it doesn't matter. Our celebrities are

not appealing to the majority. I't think the beyonce or or or oprah like appeals to enough of america clearly they don't every time the same with hillary where you look at like the you you look at the trump rally and literally they're playing recordings of artists who would never perform on their thing and then you look at the democrats and they got lady gaga and taylor swift and you go that doesn't matter it yeah it really they're they're such a we have to shake off the thought that our celebrities matter obviously the joe rogan seem to like have this different thing though it's it is like they don't like that either like they're they're the people are like you know hollywood or or that sort of thing is deemed as like this class of people that tell you what they know better.

And some of the Rogans aren't deemed like rich elitists. Somehow they maintain this status of like. Yeah. But that might be short lived. I don't know. I mean. You think so? Maybe.

Is that an optimism? Well, no, I don't think it's an optimism. I just think that there's only so long you can be countercultural until you're mainstream. I do think that that's only so long you can be countercultural until you're mainstream. I do think that that's true. Because liberalism was countercultural in a way until it wasn't. And now, I mean, things are only counter. The more the powers that be disenfranchise other voices, then the disenfranchised voice can become countercultural.

And I think it's like, it's not, people don't quite see it yet, but the powers that be is Joe Rogan. I mean, he has the biggest platform that exists right now. The top four podcasts. I guess the podcast is still a small portion,

but it's like, it's Rogan, Ben Shapiro, uh, the Hawk to a girl. And then one more. She's on there. I'm going to kill myself. But that's the thing is like, so we won't even break top 10. If you killed yourself on there. I'm going to kill myself. But that's the thing is like,

so we won't even break top 10 if you killed yourself on camera. So Trump got like Trump was this like long time liberal New York guy that then found a home among Republicans and sort of became a mouthpiece for them. And then kind of did his own thing. Yeah.

He started off and Tyler was like, oh, this isn't really working that. You might have to bleep that. No. I mean, it's up to you, but please don't make me bleep it. But this is why I feel I think liberals need like a guy that used to do blackface. We might need like Trudeau again. Sure.

Like someone that used to for a long time was Republican and now well switching sides and being like fuck it it's cool to be liberal now one thing that can be so difficult is that I certainly think like we have an ideological pure uh you know purity tests with so many people and if there's one thing that conservatives do well as they go we don't give a fuck as long as they do and they don't I mean do you know what I mean like there's one thing that conservatives do well is they go, we don't give a fuck as long as... They do and they don't. I mean, do you know what I mean? Like there's like certain things we can be like, ah, like, you know,

they don't care about certain things in terms of foreign policy. A lot of liberals do. Sure, but we really care. For your point, if someone has just a spotty past on certain views, it's like they're disqualified immediately. And I don't know if like we've been beaten so bad I think that's part of this like

damn we were beaten so bad there's not one thing that you can be like oh they should have done this or oh that you can't even blame it on the people who did protest votes you can't blame it on the people who said because of Palestine not for Kamala.

Because even if they got all of them, they'd still fucking with a loss. So there really is like there's no one to blame, but you fucking. But you. But the people at the top of the Democratic Party. We need someone macho. We need Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson for president. God, I hope he fucking

destroys Jake Paul. God. I saw Douglas at the party last night, and he was like, it was not going well. And he goes, God, if she loses and Mike Tyson loses, I don't know what I'm going to do.

It really was his thought of like, if Jake Paul wins too, like what kind of world? This is the world we're living in, you know? I of my questions like so i was thinking about i was obviously thinking about we made this video where i there was a time where i said am i ever going to do kill tony like is that a thing is that part of the career and will i have to navigate that there was there was a question of you know i got some shitty meager offer to do like legion of skanks and you know i think in my head i was like there's some comedians that i admire

that are part of that world yeah um you know in certain ways i'm a comedian first i would love there's there's some comedians i disagree with tremendously that i have a great conversation with and ultimately i decided not to do it and it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't it was just like ah i don't know if people who enjoy my work will be but my biggest fear was i'm gonna go on the show and rosanne's on the show or or tucker carlson's on the show and i would have to figure out like some way to what be like the smart ass to roast them to make a joke or probably not and just ultimately you're entertaining and being part of the thing yeah and we all make those decisions and of course there

you you could you could go on the highest end and go well you're you're you did the downside on amazon and jeff bezos is the richest so who the fuck, what's the point of having any morality at all? But I certainly think there is, the smallest thing that controls what platforms, who do I work with? And I think of it now and I just, I don't even know what it looks like. I'm glad. You didn't go on skanks? Because my thing is I'm like the only solution to me is you go on skanks and you go on Kill Tony and we can all just intermix and we just leave space for them to feel how they feel about things and you to feel how you feel about things. And we stop trying to, I think it's a different thing if there's like a guy who's like a notorious rapist, for example, and he's like out doing things and do you want to go open for a rapist

or you want to go like be on stage with Chris D'Elia, I think is different. I actually do. But I'm like if you are a Trump guy and I'm a libtard, like why can I not go on your thing that is supported by your people and disagree with you if we're talking about it? Or find common ground about making fun of whatever the fuck that we both think is funny? But I think you get stuck in a place where, for example, first of all, there's some of those guys I so deeply disrespect.

Yeah. And it would be like, it's ultimately like someone might say something that's so hateful or so fucked up that, and I don't have a funny response to it. I think the problem is this comedy relies ultimately on, I don't want to be a preachy comedian. I don't want to go to places and be the cop.

I want to be funny. Frankly, I look at the world today and sometimes I go like, fuck. I don't even know how to be funny because I like to be sardonic. I like to be poking fun. And right now to poke fun at Democrats and liberals right now feels like looking at kicking a dead horse. It's just like, hey, you fucking got throttled. Let me make fun of you more for your hypocrisy. Yeah.

And. Well, yeah, I don't think you always have to overthink that. I think ultimately you're like, oh, you don't want to go on that show because you don't think it'll be fun. And it's not where you'll thrive. By the way, Chris D'Elia might look at look at Russell Brand. Like there are serial rapists who will lean into that. And before you know it, that's part of the... Did you interact with everything?

Well, I guess what I'm saying is everyone has a line. I was naming mine. Sure. You know, like mine is if you are like a criminal, an abuser, right? Not a white collar criminal. That I can live with. Sure. I mean, like a violent criminal

yeah you know then i then i think now i i'm i'm like we don't have different views we literally have different beliefs about how we act in the world but if it is a matter of like i think you're a racist and you think i'm a soft-handed, unrealistic, elitist, over-educated pussy, then like, I do think we might be able to work that out. I also think the biggest thing that I learned, I really like, I didn't become any less liberal, but I felt like I learned a lot in Naples, Florida, because what I learned when I did shows for, I did five shows at Off The Hook Comedy Club and I had some of my own fans come out who were Trumpers down there, and I had a lot of 50-plus-year-old people.

And in the first show I did, I walked 20 people off my second joke where I said that Trump's only racist because his supporters are. That was a line I used to have. And I was like, why am I saying that? And also, they're racist by our definition. They're not racist by their definition of racism. Obviously they're tired of being called racist. They're tired of being called Nazis. And frankly, I kind of get it. It's like, like what, what is the obsession with calling poor whites racist because they don't believe in white privilege

because their lives suck. Sure. You know? And so finally, I'm like, I think the only way that we can move forward is that it's sort of incumbent upon us to a certain extent to stop being like such fucking cops about everything, go into those spaces, and then just be ourselves. Say the things we think, not violate our own perspectives, not even necessarily be shaken on our own perspectives, but maybe stop like bullying and canceling each other for being on the same stage or in the same space as them. Because that's the thing. It's like the career repercussions. Thankfully, like my fan base doesn't, I don't know if they don't care enough

about me to, to, or I haven't gone to enough of those spaces, but they don't seem to be pulling back on me when I go into... I did a Gas Digital show and I didn't... Sure, sure, sure. Gas Digital and Skanks, I think, are different, but they're one and the same also. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm like, I'll go in and I'm not going to change my perspective

and I'm not going to laugh at a joke that I thought was racist if one's made, but I'm going to go be part of spaces where people disagree with me and I'm going to see what that's like. Sure. I think there's a strength. I think there's a strength that is never going to happen. I think partly because I've, you know, I've, I've, I made my bed. I have to sleep in it of like,

I've all, I won't ever be on Joe Rogan. I think that's a reality. And I think part of it, it's like, I don't want to be with someone who I have that fear of like, they'll, they'll,

let's say Joe Rogan starts talking talking about trans people for some reason he goes like yeah let's let's bring this up you you have a joke where you're a trans ally so let's just talk about some well this niche thing that and i'm gonna look like an idiot because i'm not i'm not studied in whatever fucking case he's dealing with or he comes on and matt walsh is the surprise guest and i'm dealing with kind with kind of like people who are trained to literally, it's just like, it feels like, am I just feeding this beast that I think sucks? Is where, I know I'm not being articulate. I just don't know. I don't know where my line is.

And I think, I think ultimately like I've been kind of bitchy enough that I've, I've, I've prevented honestly from. But I would, I would challenge that side to do the same thing as I'm saying I would do with them, which is I'm like, sure, but I don't think they will, but I don't get it. We did it with them. On your podcast. You know what I mean? Like, sure. Go take someone and then just you be yourself and you be yourself.

And like, I don't, the more I find, cause I don't know, I, like before I was a comedian, I operated in bro-ier spaces and I was always the liberal, probably the most liberal guy, like in my bro-ier spaces. And just recently I was like at a wedding with some friends I went to college with and found out they were pretty much like all Trumpers at this point, which like I hadn't been clued in you know i've been in comedy world and everyone's liberal especially in new york and then all of a sudden i'm like back at this wedding and they were like well you think like you're gonna be better off or you're gonna pay more taxes and i was like i'm gonna be fine financially whether regardless of who wins regardless regardless of the tax rate. And I just sort

of stood my ground on how I feel. I was like, I don't want people walking around feeling like their president is coming after them based on who they are. I don't like that feeling. And as a result, I'm willing to take a more regulated economy or a tax system that's more onerous on the upper middle class, wherever you define it. And it just felt good to have that conversation with my friends and then be fine on the other side. I was like, that was the thing that, honestly,

I think that is my learning from all this, is we need to be fine with that. I agree to an extent extent but I also find that I grew up upstate very conservative area and I will find myself in conversations with folks and what I struggle with is it doesn't feel like it's gonna be a genuine conversation feels like me as the liberal who knows he's out of place doesn't want to start a fight and has to then endure weird talking point about trans people in sports and things like that that don't matter in these people's lives. It does not matter in these people's lives.

And that's where I'm like, I don't know what to do with that because it's like, this doesn't matter to you. Why do you, why do you, and they'll say, then people will say like the economy, and I know people struggling and are not doing well, and maybe that does drive them, but that's not what, then I get trapped in conversations, and there is a lot of racism, and there is a lot of weird transphobia, and I don't know if there can be an honest conversation where we make any kind of, I mean, I don't know.

I'm not saying it's worth not talking and not I hear the trans thing from a Republican uh-huh and I'll just be like fuck do you care yeah like then let's you know because because the thing is like I don't I mean maybe there's a fringe of people that will isolate that issue but I think most would it the very least concede if you push them on it that it's not a primary maybe i think that might be a little i saw i saw trump on the stage that's always like one of his like five like we're gonna do this we're gonna do this we're gonna get trans women out of it not that's not how he said it he's ever getting men he didn't use all the appropriate

terms you're gonna get whatever pronoun they choose. No, he doesn't. We're going to get men out of women's sports. And it's like, I think the problem is like, I don't, there's part of me that goes, I agree with you. I do. And there is an importance to like, to meet, to talk. And this idea of separating, especially now that we don't have the majority, even with a higher voter turnout, you can no longer pretend that like like this is a smaller contingency but the other part of it i just go like man when i think it's lame when when liberal comedians have politicians on the show and i think it's even lame and obviously i care more of when they have these conservative politicians and i go are you are And I go, aren't you just feeding into the propaganda of it all? And the part of making it not cool to have your comedy be with the people who pull the levers of power, does that happen gradually?

Does it happen as we talked about earlier when the economy doesn't improve and you go, hey, fuck Elon Musk? But otherwise it just feels like i'm just you're just part of contributing to good entertainment yeah you're just contributing to hey you gotta watch that episode of of uh it's oh they got the best it's it's lucas zelnick and it's tucker carlson it's fucking insane and they roast each other and then and then you're you're being funny and sticking by your views. And Tucker is just laughing like, ah! And everyone is having fun.

And it's the point of is being part of it, especially being part of it as an entertainer and a good comedian, are you not just normalizing it? Are you not just making it fun? Are you not just the token liberal who who makes it all okay i don't think the other solution is good either but that's that's where i get back to because i think if you're like let's say you're a trans woman watching this right and you hear my perspective and you're like well here's the thing that might be easy for you to say is the straight white dude you go be yourself and you go be buddy buddy with republican and you disagree and then you show that you guys can be friends at the end of the disagreement and then the trans woman would be like but I can't do that I can't be buddy buddy I can't be accepted in their space and my answer to that is like

yeah that's true and I'm sure if I were a trans woman I would relate more to that experience obviously I'm not so far as I know at this time um but uh the the thing is i'm like just you know that joke would have done better on kill tony i identify as a badass my pronouns are shut up all right also let's just also point out that like... Tony's here. Some of this comedy is so bad. Oh, yeah, it's lame. It's lame. It's so bad.

It's lame. That I agree with, but so is ours. So is all comedy is so bad. I think... Yeah, I mean, there's definitely like examples. Oh, there's no doubt, but I think... Yeah, it's bad, but it's just... But I guess what I'm saying is we've already tried the version of calling them Nazis and saying they won't let us exist.

And I wonder about the version where it's sort of like, well, Chappelle's a terrible person to reference on this point, but it's like, why not let the Republicans try to do the, I have a trans friend, or I have a black friend. Like, let them try to make a friend. Like, couldn't friendships maybe, the reason why that excuse came about, like, I have a black friend or a trans friend,

it was someone trying to say, like, I respect this person's experience and their existence. So while that's now become like the worst thing you could possibly say in a liberal space, because really it's proof that you don't know anything at all. I'm like, what is the actual harm of trying to be a little more tolerant?'s the thing that i'm trying to do especially this fall especially as on as i was on the road i took every sentence in my act that it was like like the thing where i said trump's only racist because his supporters are racist and i asked myself i was like that's not a laugh line that was a transitional line in my standup. So how did you phrase that? So now I say he reflects the views of his supporters.

Uh huh. And the joke is still the joke that I was always doing, which is my joke is that he will support who supports him. So if trans people supported Trump, he'd be at a rally tomorrow and he'd be like, I'm non-binary. I'm changing my name to trumpet. And that's like still the joke I do. But I think it's a lot more tolerable for these people when you don't call them racist to begin with. And I asked myself as a comedian, I was like,

if calling them racist is not a laugh line, why am I saying it? And I'm saying it out of my own like liberal resentment for who these people are. And all I'm doing while not accomplishing any of my goals as a comedian is alienating some of the people in the room. And I think I want to stop taking so much pride in that. Yeah. I get that. No, that makes sense. I don't disagree.

And I always think comedy, it should be a laugh first. My mind and it's like the idea of like, oh, deep down you can see my values underneath the laugh of it all. sense that there are some people out there that have shit views or who are homophobic in like a deep way that it's it's tough for me to square it's tough for me to there's a certain point where i go what's the point and again to call people nazis there's no point but just to use it as a as extreme example what's the point of putting on a good show for nazis yeah what's no point, but just to use it as an extreme example, what's the point of putting on a good show for Nazis? What's the point if you were – to take the most extreme example of if you were in Nazi Germany, you could go, well, I'm going to keep dancing because I should be an entertainer and you shouldn't challenge and you're going to walk the audience if you say that. But when does it get to that point? I'm not saying don't challenge it.

Sure. I guess I'm saying don't rule out the opportunity to challenge it. Sure, I agree. By refusing to enter that space. And to the question of whether it's idealistic, for sure it's idealistic. For sure it's idealistic. And for sure it's unrealistic that we're all going to be friends, but it doesn't seem to be any more unrealistic than the current approach,

which is like abject pessimism across all facets of everything. And, oh, I don't believe that we could like be in the same room and coexist. And like, that's the thing we've lost. And here's the only thing is the thing that the Trumpers are doing is just being unapologetically themselves. And the thing that we're doing is getting mad at that.

Yeah. We've been ourselves for a while now. Sure. So my thing is like we should be ourselves and they should be themselves. But it's starting to feel incumbent upon us in the wake of this loss to stop being so mad at them being themselves. And instead to try to coexist with them and still be as unapologetically ourselves and see what that does. And I think you can look at things where there were certain places where Kamala got less votes than the pro-choice ballot measure where there's a degree of some of there's some views that are popular that have been tied to like that are disconnected from the current message of. Yeah. yeah abortion largely was protected except for florida nebraska and one other in florida because they're fucked up rule for 60 yes they have the 60 mandate and apparently the whatever vote it was to make it a 60 mandate got less than 60 yeah it was so confusing because I saw yes, no,

and then I saw no had more votes, and there was a checkmark next to no, or yes had more votes, and there was a checkmark next to no, and I was like, what does this mean? I was like, I couldn't follow it. Yeah, and we already said it too. I think it's hard because I agree with everything you're saying. I do think it's that thing of it's much easier for the three of us to,

to, to be, to be in spaces and, and be like to have those kinds of things and feel like, Oh, well, I'm recognized as, and it's fine. And I think that there's a lot of people who can't do that and so that's where you're like what i just i i agree i agree with everything you're saying i just don't know it feels so complicated i agree too i get that i get that it's easier for me to say but i'm like then i'll just be me and i'll do the things that are easier for me and i will try to my view at this point as me not not as anyone else,

is that I can be most effective in putting forward my, with my views, which are incredibly left-leaning, if I am willing to, at the very least, enter those spaces and have those conversations. Yeah. So I'm not going, I'm not sitting here and saying, why can't trans women go to Mississippi? I am saying, why can't I, when I'm already on stage in the South, open my mind to trying to make my point in a way that doesn't, out of pride

and out of principle, push away those people before they can even hear it. Instead of framing it as a racist and saying it reflects the people, you know, I have my own interpretation, which is exactly what you were already saying.

You know, like even hearing it framed that way, we already put those pieces together where you're, but they wouldn't, you know. Yeah. I think I, there's times I go, it's very persuasive. And, but like, for example, I'm sorry to be devil's advocate on it,, it's very persuasive. And, but like, for example, I, sorry to be,

to be devil's advocate on it, but it's like your joke about Trump, which I think is a very good joke, no doubt. And, and it's the, it's funny, the idea of Trump suddenly being trans to reflect his supporters. And then I go, what happens when you are in that audience and you go, everyone's laughing at, because they go go they're laughing at the concept of like trans trump those fucking trans people they that that you feel like the laugh that that you've you've curbed it and i it makes sense what you're saying why would i just call you racist out of nowhere to to prevent you from even getting to the joke part of it yeah but my my thought is that even that joke part will if if it's not clear what your stance is or if if there aren't some times where you are

going to walk some audience members it could be even worse of the other side where they are laughing not because the joke ultimately at its heart is trump is a valueless thing. Politicians are valueless things. They really reflect the people that support him. Whatever you want to hear. And here's like a funny version of what that would look like. That you could then also, in a different world, find an audience where you go holy shit, everyone's

laughing because they just think it's funny to talk about a trans person and you feel that you can go too far the other way that it really is. And maybe that's just the job of the comedian. It's the bloodlust. It's the Borat. It's Borat saying, throw the Jew down the well. And the people who don't know he's Jewish laughing because that's a funny concept to them. Yeah, I get that. That's the line of satire. But, I mean, there's only so much

I think we can control as comics if we want to go into these spaces and talk about these things. I also think, by the way, in the wake of Trump losing, I'm looking at my own act, wondering if I want to do those jokes. Sorry, of Trump winning.

Trump winning. Of us losing. Someone's like, oh my God. For a second, I losing like someone's like wait check the count yeah wait what happened you released it tonight and they're like wait i would i absolutely would love it if combo did a full like it's stolen we need to stop we need to just a full-on now we just took the l's like the fucking pussy the problem was there there was there was no point in the night where we could have said, stop the counts. Stop the counts. Start the counts. Keep the counts going. Can we get more counts?

No, I might not. I don't know that I want to do all the jokes I do about politics that I think I was doing in a world where we have a liberal president and it feels like making fun of liberals is funnier. And to your point now, it feels like maybe twisting the knife. Like, I'm not sure I want to do that. Yeah. But I think that is, to me, that's a separate thing than what I was trying to say prior, which is not changing my views, but just entering spaces where they are less popular. Yeah. Because I think that is the thing that I think I don't so much love about

liberals is the attack on, don't even be at the table with them. Because these people are Nazis and you don't negotiate with terrorists. You don't sit at the table with Nazis. And I'm like, well, if the Nazis, quote unquote, win the popular vote, we're running out of time to say, you, you can't sit at the table with them. Like if Trump wins the popular vote, I'm like, and also like, I do think that like, you gotta, you have to believe that they are not, I say this as a Jew. I'm like, you have to believe that they're not Nazisis like nazis by the definition of sure and and if you believe that you got like there's got to be a middle ground between nazi and liberal like there's got to be it can't just be there's liberals and there's nazis yeah

and i think there's just there's the honesty honesty of the view of entertainers behind closed doors are at the same table and they've always been at the same table to a degree. Like, I mean, I think there was, I just remember a comedian who had been, you know, quote unquote canceled and being at like a comedy club, being as vague as possible here and being like, oh yeah, they're all pals. They're all old friends. being like oh yeah they're all they're all pals they're all old friends yeah and that's why people people get shocked when chapelle opens for millennia and they have a fucking uh fit and i and i go how are you so fucking naive yeah how are you so fucking naive that you think these figures are are pure and per your point i mean you know acknowledge that you can coexist in those spaces or that you are willing to as opposed to pretending like you're some kind of pure thing and then suddenly you're like you

know you're some of these comedians who get in big trouble because they find out they're not these perfect beings yeah it's like they never were they never were and better to be up front about that and that's what i'm trying to do yeah i. I'm trying to advocate for, and I don't know who, who knows what the, the Debbie downsiders will have to say about that. I will say last time. No, I think we've,

no, but I think we've been, I listen, I think we've been honest about, I've, I've tried to be honest about a lot of things. I think, I think the struggle that I have,

and maybe it's, maybe it's just the, the Libby side of me that I always grew up with. I go, I don't want to be on the show that that jd vance was on that makes me that makes me annoyed and i think as i got there was a time when i i also feel uncomfortable with the show that all the liberal politicians yeah we're on there's a lame factor to both like in terms of i mean there's a sure but obviously i would have been willing to be on the daily show sooner than I would have been on Tony.

And, and, but, but the truth is I do think things are not, but that's my point is I'm like, go on the show that JD Vance was on and say, I think it's lame. You had them on.

Sure. I agree. I mean, it's not like they're going to walk. The point is you're walking by not going on it. This is all hypothetical, but I'm like, I'm like,

that's the thing that I think we're doing that they're not going on it. This is all hypothetical, but I'm like, I'm like, that's the thing that I think we're doing that they're not doing. Now, I think they're just as sensitive as we are for different things. I don't think like we're all whining and they're all like, well, you know, they can't be offended. Like they can be offended. But I'm like, if you go on their show and you say, I think it's lame that you had JD on and they walk, then they're doing the exact same thing that you're doing. But if you preemptively walk rather than go on and just be yourself and stand by your views, I'm like, that feels like a missed opportunity to me. Cause maybe you say, I think it's lame that you had JD Vance on, but I think it's dope that we're talking about sea life for,

and now I'm picturing Theo Vaughn. That's why I'm picturing like, I feel like it's like 5% you would have a real conversation and then he'd be like, what are crabs doing below 5,000 feet? And then you would just talk about that. But I'm like, then find both of those, let those things coexist, can't they? I know it's idealistic,

but is it any more idealistic and naive than the notion that like, I'm just going to separate myself and we're in two separate worlds. If you want to separate yourself, then get ready to separate yourself. I think sometimes there's a degree of like, okay, do you want a country that

breaks apart? Then you better go advocate for that. Get ready to do those things. We can't separate ourselves anyway. It's like, oh, I'm not going to go Oh I'm not going to What's the logical extension of I'm not going to go on Joe Rogan's podcast

It's I'm not going to live in Donald Trump's America Well we're all here So I'm like you can't separate And you could leave if you want to You can But if you don't want to you can't be like I'm going to leave But I'm like I'm not going to I'm not over America

Because we elected a president That I really really was hoping we wouldn't to Canada. But I'm like, I'm not gonna like, I'm not over America because we elected a president that I really, really was hoping we wouldn't. I'm just willing to say that and then live in it and tell those people I don't fuck with him. I don't know. That to me is like, that is the...

And I, you know, and then again, we all have our lines and I still have mine, you know, and then again, we all have our lines and I still have mine, you know, but, but if it's about specifically just Crystalia, that's your one, that's the one principle you've used.

It was like the name I was willing to drop, I guess. But like, I'm like, like we know they're all, we all know about the New York scene and who's good and who's bad. And I won't work with the people that are bad, you know,

personally, but will I go that are bad you know personally but will i go on like you know a talking heads thing and disagree with them i'm done personally yeah you know i don't know well well i'm gonna do i have a show tonight. Me too. Yeah. You'll have more timely material. I don't write for this kind of thing. I'm like, give it a couple of days. I don't have any reflections yet. I don't have.

I mean, all my things are like, you know, they're like, I got a cameo request being like, can you cheer me up? And I was like, for $40? I don't think so. Can you turn them down? You can, right? You can, but I instead recorded something long and sweet. I mean, there are times that my... You can, but then I did more work than normal.

I said, I don't think so, and then I did it. I said, I don't think so, and then I did it. There's no one who puts more care and time to their cameos than me, even though I... And I said, actually, this is free. You know? I said, no way I'm doing this thing that I later did. Well.

Well. Well. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Yeah. For people listening, I hope it's something to pass the time. There's also just tova just keeps going like just yeah the day's gonna suck or it's just like it it just feels bad yeah it feels it sucks yeah i don't want to deal with four more years of this fucking shit yeah and

the constant it's the energy i'm just tired and the yeah's like, how do I, how do you... You turn on the radio, you have to hear that voice. And you have to hear more impressions. And you have to see the terrible, terrible jokes about him. And it's just like that energy is such a soul suck. I don't want that. I'm with you. I truly, as, listen, there's times in my life I go,

oh, it'd be cool to be on Saturday Night Live. I cannot imagine having to be there right now and just be like fuck let's write the fucking the cold open what are you guessing it's sincere or jokey I know I think they don't think they can do sincere again after

2016 you know what I mean yeah I think the only guarantee in this world is it will not be funny. Hey. Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this. If you joined the Patreon, that's where you get the timely ones.

If you listen to the regular, I apologize for those who recorded pre-election, but they're still good episodes. And we will be back next week with Tony Hinchcliffe. This is The Downside. You're listening to The Downside. One, two, three. Downside. Downside. You're listening to The Downside. The Downside. With Gianmarco Ceresi.