The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #31 Burning in a Lake of Fire with Caleb Hearon

Episode Date: August 10, 2021

Caleb Hearon shares the downsides of growing up in Missouri, first learning what being gay means in church, growing up with parents who were just friends, working as an administrative assistant at an ad agency, finding out there’s an account dedicated to posting your old deleted tweets, having a mom who tells her friends you’re on SNL when you’re not, the overuse of the word “trauma”, and I play the cameo of him my girlfriend got me for Chanukah. then My lovely gf Tovah Silbermann let me try out a podcast idea with her I’ve had for a while (Shalom Bias) and it’s at the end of the episode. If you hate our relationship and prefer thinking of me as a single, possibly bisexual bachelor do not worry it’s a one off - but if you dig it let me know your thoughts and maybe we’ll do something with it as it's own thing someday. Watch full video of this episode HERE Join The Downside Patreon for early ad-free episodes, TWO bonus episodes a month (AUDIO & VIDEO), + the good feeling inside that you're helping keep this thing going. Follow CALEB HEARON on twitter, instagram, & tiktok Listen to CALEB HEARON's podcast Keeping Records Watch CALEB HEARON on The Drew Barrymore Show Follow GIANMARCO SORESI on twitter, instagram, tiktok, & youtube Check out GIANMARCO SORESI's special 'Shelf Life' on amazon & on spotify Subscribe to GIANMARCO SORESI's mailchimp Follow RUSSELL DANIELS on twitter & instagram E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Fawn Sullivan, Paige Asachika, & Gianmarco Soresi Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's Jermarcus Oresi. This episode is fantastic, obviously, because it's with Caleb here on. But when it's done, you'll see there's more time left, and that's because I convinced my wonderful girlfriend, Tova Silberman. You know her. I love playing her night terrors for you.

When we first met, I wanted to do a podcast with her. She was adamant that we try like a romantic relationship first, but I was able to convince her to record, I guess you could call it a pilot. It's called Shalom Bias. It's where she talks to me, teaches me about her roots in Chabad, which is a sect of Hasidism or Hasidic Judaism. I'm not really sure, but that's kind of what the show is. It's her teaching me about Jewishness and me as a Jew who doesn't really know about being Jewish, but feels Jewish. It's a lot of fun.

If you like it, let me know. Maybe I can convince her to do more, separate from the downsides. If you listen to this podcast and you don't like Jews, it's amazing. It's amazing that you're still listening, but don't worry. It's its own thing, but just check it out. It's amazing that you're still listening. But don't worry.

It's its own thing. But just check it out. She's very funny. And yeah, here you go. Caleb Heron. This is The Downside. If I had done drugs in high school, it'd be a mess. I've never done drugs.

I've never done a drug. You've never smoked pot? I've never smoked pot. Are we recording? Oh, great. Well, welcome. Welcome to The Downside. My name is Jamarcus Rezzi.

This is one of my first episodes without my... I'm in LA. I'm in LA. Oh, I forgot. You can talk during this. I do the intro thing, but you can... What if I didn't talk during the whole recording? You thought what was stopping me from talking was that you were doing the intro, but actually

what stopped me from talking is I'm just a really bad guest. That would be... Who knows? i know you're from twitter i mean you wouldn't be the first twitter comedian to kind of bomb in person damn all right that's so cold so i'm here in la uh my co-host russell daniels is not here um but uh i'm very excited that uh my guest today is my girlfriend's client, or he might not be here. So please welcome to the show, Caleb Huron. Welcome to The Downside. I wouldn't have come if Russ was here, because we have beef. You have beef?

Yeah, I just decided. We've never met. I've never spoken to the person, but I think I've decided that we have beef. Otherwise, why wouldn't he come to the show? That's going to make him anxious. He's the kind that's going to make him anxious. Why wouldn't he come and do the show in LA? Because he's in New York with his wife and his new dog.

I thought you were going to say new daughter. No, no, no. He has a kid? No, then he should quit the podcast if he has a daughter. It's crazy when comedy people start having kids, don't you think? Yes. I find the ones that do. I go, oh, I didn't know your parents were rich.

And then you find out they were. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, because they have a kid. I'm like, how? Who's going to pay for the food for the child? Who's going to feed the kid? And that's when you find out, oh, okay. Yeah.

We can play that first theme music. I normally have buttons. One, two, three. But here we go. Downside. You're listening to The Downside. The Downside. With Gianmarco Cerezi.

So again, thank you for being on The Downside. This is an interview show where we focus on the negatives. We focus on the things that are depressing. And when I'm in L.A., boy, do I feel depressed. Stop. I do. Stop. I do.

L.A. is the kind of town where you really feel like, oh, I haven't done anything with my life. I don't feel that. You go to parties and everyone's like, oh. I remember, so when I graduated college, you went to New York, you went to LA. Drop the name of the college you went to. University of Miami. Go Cyclones?

Go Hurricanes? Go Hurricanes. You didn't know? But I went to one football game. Sure, sure, sure. We lost 36 to nothing. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. The mascot was a bird bird a kind of bird

that's specific i hate i hate it i hate it uh nothing but bad things to say go hurricanes question go hurricanes um but i remember uh my my girlfriend at the time we broke up she i went to new york she went to la classic acting story yeah and i remember the first week we called and she was like guess where i just took a shit and I was like what? Steven Spielberg's house and that's when I knew I had made the mistake of going to New York because I took a shit in a McDonald's in the M&M's store in Times Square

I wish they wouldn't even let me into the bathroom at the M&M's store I wanted to go, the story of my whole life has been the sentence next I'm moving to New York that was the always the in high school i was gonna move to new york and then i didn't because i got a scholarship to go stay in missouri for school and then in college i was gonna move to new york and and i lived there

for two summers in undergrad and i loved it i love new york and then i was like after college for sure this is what we're waiting on yeah you can go anywhere in the world and then a bunch of my friends were like we're going to chicago to do comedy and i was like why and because i didn't know anything about like i didn't study acting i wasn't like a big like all my friends were like comedy biography and comedy documentary and they were big comedy people yeah i did improv with them but i didn't wasn't really and so they're like oh there's a really good scene there and i was like okay so i went to chicago and then i was like when i i'm gonna be in chicago for three to five years and then i'm gonna go to new york and then when it was time to leave chicago i was like i'm fucking going to LA.

You should. It was a good, I think Chicago, if I could go back, I think Chicago, a smaller place. Yes. Go,

I was an actor before I was a comedian and, you know, go be on Chicago Fire, be on all the Chicago Fire, police, hospital,

morgue and then like get those little roles and then move somewhere. Go somewhere small. Yes. New York's a nightmare. This would be a nightmare. Do you think la would be a nightmare if you weren't you know who you are well i uh you came here with with some some things going on well i got very things cooking i did get very lucky i but i think that my whole thing about moving to la was i didn't have i mean i trusted that something would happen in LA but I didn't have a job before

I moved to LA I moved to LA just because I was ready to move from Chicago I had my team and things like that but I my thing about moving to LA was if I got canceled immediately if I stepped foot in LA and a bunch of old tweets were uncovered and I was never allowed to work again that I was just excited for like having a car again and the weather yes like the new restaurants and stuff about LA that wasn't work stuff. But work stuff, I mean, work stuff is kind of stressful out here.

I get what you mean. I can't drive is another big thing. Why are you doing? I mean, the Uber money, I'm bleeding Uber money in the last couple days. It's brutal.

It's like $75 right now and no one can get one. It's a long wait. I remember the first time I went to LA, like two years ago, I got an hour long Uber to do five minutes at a comedy show. And it was only like $12.

And I was like, oh, this is amazing. Not thinking about the exploitation of the laborer. I just thought this is the greatest thing in the world. And now they reflect the labor and I am no longer a socialist. You hustle, though. You do a lot. I do not longer a socialist. You hustle, though. You do a lot. I do not like to hustle. We were just talking about this

before we started recording. I love doing nothing. To me, it's the most beautiful thing in the world. I have so many things on my calendar this week, and for a normal person, probably like a third of what they have, and it's making me sick. I hate the idea of having to be somewhere.

Yeah. Well, that's why you should be in LA. That's why this is the perfect place for you. And in Chicago, my work ethic was so much better. I was working so hard. And then I got to L.A. and I started wearing polos and gym shorts in public. And literally just started like, I'll drink a coffee, write literally one joke, and be like, today was a good day. And I feel good about it.

I really feel like I'm killing it. And for most L.A. comedians, they're like, slow down. Take a break. Oh, my God. I just wrote a setup this morning. Relax. You've been too bold. I have really.

You've been too bold talking shit on LA. I said, what did I say? I said, LA comedians have more TV credits than punchlines. True about me. Yeah. Yeah. True about me. I don't care about a punchline.

I don't give a fuck. I'm funny. Look, I don't. Comics always try to argue I don't give a fuck. I'm funny. Look, I don't, I, people, comics always try to argue. Comics, you know comics are always trying to have the comedy arguments. Yeah, but I think real, it's, I don't take it seriously. I mean, I think any. You do a little. But I'm saying, I'm saying like the really good LA comics, the really good LA comics

don't, aren't insulted because they know because they're on LA shows all the time. They're really good. Solomon Giorgio commented. He's a great comedian. It's like the good comics don't mind the disses about LA because I think like the real stand-up comics.

I don't mind. It means nothing to me. I'm just looking out for you. I do see a world where people beat your ass for the things you've been saying. In LA, they're going to beat my ass?

Come on. You don't think somebody in LA could beat you up? No. I know like five lesbians who would put up a fight. Sure, sure. All I know is lesbians.

So let me just say real quick, because I'm going to, this is my first time without the co-host, so it's just, I feel chaotic right now. I felt anxious, but I knew you'd talk. I've got you control thank you i uh uh if you're a fan join the patreon it's

patreon.com slash downside you get bonus episodes ad free episodes uh things are growing things are cooking so please check it out and and i we're going to talk about you in in a second but i i do share some of my own downsides something happened at this trip you you visited place have you visited new york yet you visited during since covid pre-covid like when you were a comedian i'm visiting and i'm seeing a lot of people yeah at shows and i've maybe seen them once in my life we've interacted online maybe i'm already bad with faces and i'm bad with names it's a horrible habit i don't know if it's prosopagnosia or I'm a narcissist or a brain problem that I'm concerned about right now. Yeah.

You could be really ill. But every show I go to, it's just like, hi, how are you? And I don't know who I've met for the first time, who I've met for the third time. It feels very chaotic. Can I tell you something? Yes. Good to see you. Sure.

Good to see you is the phrase that fixes this. But I had the worst. This is the worst thing. I went to the you. Sure. Good to see you is the phrase that fixes this. But I had the worst. This is the worst thing. I went to the Ocean Mike yesterday. A big outdoor beach show. Very fun show. And these two young men were there. They might listen to this podcast.

This will be how they find out what happened. These two young men. I just assume they're comedians. When people start talking to me a lot, I'm like, oh must be fellow comics we're talking didn't have my glasses on feeling chaotic talked to them for like 10 minutes met one of their their wives i go to leave i check my instagram and my college stand-up comedy agent tagged me in a post like seeing jamarco do a show and i was like oh fuck right my my stand-up agent and my college agent came to the show today fuck why didn't i see them and then i look at the picture i'm like

dude holy shit kidding holy shit what is wrong with you and but here's but in my defense i've met them twice in person i've met them in the office wearing suits one of them had a ponytail now he has short hair. You're canceled. I went back and I'm going over the conversation in my head like, did I say... I talked to them pleasantly. It's not like I was rude. But I might have said something to them like, yeah, you know, stand-up's opening back up.

I was just in Spokane last weekend and they were like, yeah, we booked you for that gig. We were there with all the flight problems and stuff. So I went back and I was like, here's Tova. This is my girlfriend. And I talked to them as my agents, of course.

And I'm wracked with guilt. I feel like they must have seen me and thought maybe I was being aloof to them or rude or weird. This is crazed. I can't believe this happened. And I'm humiliated. And I just, I just characterized it in Tova. I was like, did I just ruin, these people I've talked to on the phone once a week.

Yeah. Because lots of gigs coming in. I'm booked, I'm booked, I'm booked, I'm booked. But it's a real problem. And this is the worst, this is the worst that's ever, I've been kind of like, I float through life and I'm like, this is a little, this is a quirk of mine. I don't know anybody. And I say hi.

And this is the first time I was like, you idiot. You are so brave to tell that story. Most people would. I cleared it with Tova. I said, Tova, is it okay? Well, you know I do the same. Most people would not. Most people would not tell this story because you're looking really bad right now.

People are judging. They're saying, John Marko doesn't know the people that he works with yeah it's really bad look but you're bravely sort of brené brown style trailblazing through that i think that's cool but people must approach you because they know you from online and you do you always know like do you ever wonder oh have i met this person well they're never my agent online they're never they're never my accountant they're like they're like a stranger from the world oh my god yes no but people people do i will there are definitely people who like that i should know that that uh i would get midway through a conversation with and be like saying yeah i'll be saying stuff

like like you're talking about i'll be like i'll be like yeah thanks so much for coming out i really appreciate it and and like the way you talk to somebody that you think is like a fan and they'll be like, oh, we know each other. You know what I mean? Where I'm, I do get caught in those things where I'm like, oh, I didn't,

I forgot. We took like two classes together in college and I guess I followed you on Instagram. And it's that tone. I think it's that tone where you're talking to someone

or for me, it's that tone I talk to like a younger comic who's just really nice and versus the tone with my agents. Like a little professional distance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're with the agents. If I knew they were my agents from the beginning, I'd be like, younger comic who's just really nice and versus the tone with my agents where yeah yeah we're with the agents if I knew they were my agents

from the beginning I'd be like hey why haven't I got a fucking funny bone headlining date yet I would have talked more aggressively than business than mean to them but I so I just want to say I hope you stopped listening to the podcast a long time ago Joe Flaherty and Matt Bourne but you are fantastic agents and you just were in beach clothes

and I normally see you in suits at the office. And I do know you. And Matt, you got a big haircut. And you didn't tell me. And if any of the listeners represent comedians for touring gigs, reach out. Because John Marco is going to need representation pretty instantaneously after this comes out.

Oh my god. But this is the first time we've met in person. Yeah. I did get a cameo from you. Do we have that cameo here right now? I think we can play it. Did you? Yeah, you made a cameo for me.

Let's see. Shout out John Marcus. Jen Mirko. Jen Mirko. Um, it is such an honor that you like my videos and, um, my work on television, uh, of which there is much. Um, I cannot tell you how much it gets me through the days knowing that average, normal, um, everyday slice of life people like you are out there loving my comedy and enjoying the stuff I make.

I mean I do it for you guys. I hear you're a fan and you are in really good company. You join many, many others. And I just wanted to tell you whatever your dreams are, if you want to be a manager at the restaurant you work at or if you want to go back to school and get a certificate in conflict resolution or if you want to someday even own a home or whatever your simple, normal person goals are, you can do it. you can do it. And I know you can do it because I'm living my dreams. And even though they're much more complicated and they're much more artistic in some ways important. I don't think that,

but I think that normal people do. I know that you can do the things you want to do as well. Get married, have a kid, you know, that kind of thing. So just keep after it. And I'm so proud of you.

And thank you so much from the bottom, the deep bottom of my heart for being a fan. I do it all for you. I just wanted to say I love you and thank you. That was Tova's first gift to me. That was a cameo from you.

I have to say that is so funny. It was a fantastic gift. I've talked about it before the podcast. To that is so funny. It was a fantastic gift. I've talked about it before on the podcast. Tova is a master gift giver. A master gift giver. Really? Unbeatable.

Does not give me gifts. Not yet. Does not give me gifts? You got to book a bigger gig first. You got to do more work. You got to be a little bit more impressive. No, it's astounding and she said she has a list of like 12 gift ideas for me she just has a good memory yeah for that

and inventive and creative and the gifts that you did not see coming and you it's the gifts you didn't know you needed yeah like that video which was a joke i knew it was a joke i was in on it really she just said that I'm a fan, and I guess that's what you send all your fans. No. St. Kovex to school. It is also so funny to do that kind of pretentious bit about if you want to own a home,

something that is... Like, finding love and buying a home are so far out of reach for me. We're so twisted in our priorities. It's also not a possibility for me. To me, like, own a home, buy kids, in my head I'm like, oh, so you yeah as i like do the fucking you're gonna have a 1am kick in times square for five people i'm like you quitters oh yeah have fun have fun with

your safe comfortable loving life in a house that you own in a place that you enjoy i want to live somewhere hard and do something even harder yeah and you still do the cameos no uh you know what cameos honestly really difficult and strange and was the only thing i quit my day job um what was your day job god i had so many the one i quit the last one i had um hopefully forever was um i was an administrative assistant at an ad agency oh right i have that here yeah and um i quit it in january of 2020 or i guess technically february of 2020 to do comedy full-time uh and then of course you know how things went of course the global pandemic for sure i thought you mean your comedy career and you're like saying it exploded yeah wait so what did you do at the ad agency because i like ad agencies i've always

said if i wasn't in entertainment like i i did some commercials and at one point it was like I went to the ad agency and I saw the disgusting – the awards that they have. Horrible. This like – it was BBDO. Yeah. And they're a successful ad agency. And so they had these like gold and silver bronze pencils in a way where they were like trash. Every office had them stacked up against the glass i'm like guys maybe these awards are ridiculous yeah because

they were just littered everywhere they didn't know what to do with them they just win the lions the pencils it's all bullshit yeah what did you do at that ad agency i worked at a couple ad agencies originally i worked in social so i did social media management for companies hated i've hated i hated every day job i've ever had were you good at that yes but some of them i was good at most of them um i'm pretty organized and like i you know but i uh that last one i had god bless them it's a miracle they didn't fire me i was an administrative assistant to several executives at an ad agency it's a cool ad agency i like most of the people i worked with they only did non-profits and uh like universities um so it was way different than doing like one of those big like brand like they do like corona and shit yeah um but i hated it and i didn't do a good job and i

wouldn't i would like drop the ball constantly like on the simplest shit like my boss would be like hey all i need you to do this week is uh book this flight and make sure it gets on my calendar i would book the wrong flight and not put it on the calendar. And then they would come to me. And the thing is, I would have the audacity to be annoyed with them. They would come and be like, so you did book the wrong flight and it wasn't on my calendar, and we just will for next time need that to go better.

And I would be like, this fucking toxic corporate environment. I'm an artist. I can't thrive here yeah and it was the simplest shit but you did who did you run social media for like what companies what brands that lasted for so short of an amount of time i quit that job pretty much immediately um but i did it for um a men's razor brand i did it for um a family company of theme parks and i did it for um an agricultural association were you being funny you remember any eraser jokes no this was not to be funny i i wasn't doing so i wasn't doing content i was doing social strategy oh i was doing posting i was uh editing copy i was that stuff was all for creatives. They get paid a lot of money.

I was a social intern. I was doing like, schedule this tweet or check the metrics on this campaign. Tell the brand how many analytics or how many impressions they got from these Instagram posts. The business side of social.

I think just the creatives and ad agencies, it's kind of incredible because like when i did this it was for general electric and they were the team was all former playwrights all people like playwrights in their 20s yes and now they come together and they write one script yeah one 30 second script and that's got to be approved by everyone that's in general electric yeah and it's like an interesting – some of the commercials are very good. I think they're very – but I just think it's such a strange to be like an artist and then only have this brief window of artistry. And then the rest is just like, okay, well, how do we make it on Snapchat? And how do we – like it's – I'd go crazy, I think.

But they're making a lot of money. Yeah. I don't like ad agencies my feeling about most of the people who work to the ad agencies i worked at was that they were failed artists who were convincing themselves that actually it it's really powerful to make commercials for coca-cola and pepsi and actually some i mean it's you'd rather good people be doing it so that our advertising can be more ethical and cool. And it's like, you guys just wear jeans to work and think that you're like, they call themselves disruptors. That made me want to kill myself.

It just is a stupid environment where people who were not brave enough or good enough or whatever to go do the art they wanted to do. It's what they wanted. Or they're using this to fuel. And then when they're 50, they go, you know what, I'm going to do a play again. Sometimes. Do a one-act. Sometimes. But a lot of them, my personal experience, I'm not saying everybody who works in advertising is a failed artist who wasn't brave.

In my experience, I worked with a number of them who were like, oh, yeah, I tried to be a musician for four years, and then nobody listened to my music. So now I've decided that I'm doing brave campaigns for michelob ultra and it's like okay it is funny what like so i did these like the first round these general lecture commercials they were like they got all this praise in the ad world because the joke was like no one thinks ge has good it was about like i work for ge and everyone's like sorry to hear and like it was like a a subversive in the commercial world where like we were kind of saying people think our company's lame. And then guess what? And like people were like, but that's it. And then it was like people were like, oh, this is groundbreaking.

GE is making fun of itself. Like that's groundbreaking. Yeah. In the corporate world. Which is kind of cool. It is. But then the commercials did well. So they did a second round.

I'm very excited. And the second round was like, now everyone thinks GE's cool. And it was so fucking not funny. And I'm there in the room. And I'm there in the room. And it was weird. Like they would be like, come by the offices. We want to introduce you to the CEO.

Like the little actor boy. Like, hey, we brought him here. And we didn't pay him anything, but you get to meet him. You get to meet the actor in your commercials. And I'd be like, hi. And then they'd be like, go away. Yeah. But I remember seeing the new scripts and I thought to myself, like, this isn't funny anymore now.

This isn't going to work. Yeah. And I want to do more of these commercials. So it'd be cool if we made them funny. Yeah. But instead, they just they went that angle. They couldn't make fun of themselves anymore. Yeah. They had to be like well now everyone loves ge i think look if you if you work in an advertising agency and you make commercials uh for bp oil about why they are actually a progressive and

cool company and you have convinced yourself that that is art and is edgy i love that for you i just don't think that i should be like a bad guy for not buying into it like I think I get to go mmm that sucks you know what I mean now do you should your career

go as one might hope you're gonna get an offer like many comedians I'll do it in a heartbeat will you I'll sell out in a heartbeat for BP Oil if BP Oil came to

if the money was right and they said we want you to do a commercial I will sell out too I'm not criticizing these people I'm just saying it's my view look if BP Oil came to if the money was right and they said we want you to do a commercial i will sell out too i'm not criticizing these people i'm just saying it's my view look if bp oil came to me and said two million dollars we want you to say that we do we want you to say that you personally endorse us and we do good work for the environment i would do it really maybe i don't know two million dollars very maybe i don't know right now you have, you have a friend group that some will say they will unfollow you.

Oh, that's fine. You have some friends. I'm saying you're part of a group and me too to a certain extent that if you become the BP Oil person, they're going to be upset at you. Look, I think it depends on what the rules are. If I can do it and then, like, okay. And then shit all over it, like in a video after? Yeah, like if I can do it and then I'm allowed to, like, go do stand-up about how funny it is that they suck and we actually all hate them, I'll donate some of the money to a good cause.

You know, everybody can win. Some money, sure. Some, not all of it. I need it. I remember George Clooney, he does commercials, his Nespresso commercials, all the money, like like goes to a satellite that tracks human crimes in some particular place in the world. And that's his excuse. I think that's beautiful.

Sure. I think I keep my options open on selling out because I think that my feeling, okay, my feeling in my heart is and has been I would never do that. I will never sell out. But then I don't want to publicly put that out there because the time to sell out might actually come. When I first started acting, I was in an acting class with some real Lee Strasberg, deep actors. And they talked about they would never do commercials. And I was like doing, I was like gung ho about commercials from the day I set foot in New York. And it was just very funny that two years later, they started

getting a little hungry and they were like, Hey, how do I get into Yeah. And it was just very funny that two years later, they started getting a little hungry. And they were like, hey, how do I get into commercials? And I was like, yeah, of course. Yeah. Of course. Because it's also like, I have, it's not just about like, everyone has things going on that are like, I would like to put my mom in retirement. I would like to, you know, I had to go to a school in Missouri, which I loved and had

a great time at. And it was the best thing for me. But I didn't get to go to any school I wanted to because I loved and had a great time at, and it was the best thing for me. But I didn't get to go to any school I wanted to because my family does not have money. I'd like my little cousins to be able to go. There are reasons that aren't just like, I want a yacht to do well. So I don't feel weird about saying I will do things that suck as long as I can make fun of them. But also, do I think BP Oil is ever going to come knocking and be like, Caleb, we need you for the commercial?

No. Well, you foolishly gave your price point right out the gate. They know you're going to do it for two million. Yes. You could have gone three, but you revealed it. Well, when the time comes, we'll see. Tova's going to be pissed as shit when she hears this. They're going to say, we're only going to give him two million.

He said that's what he's going to do. And I will tell my team quietly, you know, try to get him to go higher. Yeah. I was kidding. It was a podcast. So let's,

I did my research about you. I've always been a fan, of course. I've quoted your tweets on the podcast several times before. Good or bad? I don't cite them.

I claim them as my own thoughts. Why? Many times. So you grew up in Missouri. True. What are the downsides of growing up in Missouri? You're a conservative part of Missouri. Is Missouri all conservative?

Yeah, but I am too. Yes, you are too. Yes. Missouri is very conservative. The area I grew up in was very conservative. So tell me what sucked about growing up in Missouri. I mean, everything you would imagine. I mean, it's like very Christian, very white.

I didn't know an openly gay adult until college. Really? Yeah. I mean, I look back and I'm like, oh, okay, so maybe one of my middle school science teachers, she lives with a woman. That's probably a relationship. But that was a secret. I did not know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, when you come out, of course, the thing about coming out when you're from a small conservative Midwest Southern place is that all these stories come to you when you come out. No one talks about anybody being gay. Then you come out, they go, oh, yeah, you know, Lisa's son who was blah, blah, blah. He lives in New York now and he's a hairdresser. And you go, oh, okay. But no one tells you until you come out. Yeah. So during the scary part, you don't know anything.

So yeah, conservative, religious, very white, very straight. Where did your knowledge of what being gay was? If no one was gay. The church. The church. Ironically. Uh-huh. They bring it up.

You go to church and they're like, being gay is something. And it's bad. And you go, well, hold on. So you learn that it's something, but then immediately that it's bad. And you go, well, hold on. So you learn that it's something, but then immediately that it's bad. But you learn, I mean, really the first time you hear about it is in church. Are they talking about during the Sunday sermon? Yeah. How does it come up? How do they bring it up? By the way, any of you guys are having some thoughts? No, it's like, you know, it's always referencing something. So much of the preaching in

those kinds of churches are, and I will say to i went to several different churches and the church i spent the longest in was um you know a non-denominational church that wouldn't talk on the pulpit at least that i remember about really social issues at all like they didn't talk about abortion or gay marriage or anything there were other churches that i attended from time to time with friends that did um But yeah, they'll do, they do, they do sermons, but it usually is about current events. Like there'll be, they will plan their sermons around like ballot initiatives or elections or whatever that are coming up. And it's like, they're not telling you what to do,

what to vote for because they can't because that's illegal. But they're, you know, the ballot initiative vote is on tuesday and sunday sermon is randomly an hour and a half about you know being gay or transgender or whatever oh my god yeah uh so all right so tell me what you said non-denominate i don't know a lot about christianity good for you happy for you i know my parents my my dad had some mean nuns in high school that hit his hands or whatever and he was out hell and then my mom my mom's parents told her she could either have a bat mitzvah or a sweet 16 and she was like i'm out of judaism yeah so i i i don't know lots but what what what what kind of christian were you were your parents

were you raised in so okay so my mom is i grew up in my mom's house. My mom raised me alone. Divorced? Never married. Never married. Scandal. Wow. Yes. So I grew up in her house, and she is religious, reads the Christian Bible, is a Christian, but does not go to church, has never gone to church.

I really just think because she was raising two kids by herself and working three jobs. Even older or younger? Older brother. Same dad? Two older sisters. No, different dads. Okay. And so I think we were just too busy to go to church. And then, so she never took us to church.

I started going to church on my own because all of my friends did. So it was like, you get to like middle school and you're like, oh, everyone is going to church. I want to go to youth group so I can hang out with my friends. So you're showing up on Sunday. You're putting on a suit by yourself? No, it's Wednesday.

It's Wednesday night. Wednesday night, okay. It's also, they... You said it like, it's Wednesday night. It's Wednesday night, baby. There is. There's a band. There's a little coffee shop in the church.

They give out free iPods. They watch The Office together before the... It's like culty brainwash shit so that the kids whose parents brought them to church will then go to school how are they washing the office? big projectors

I understand physically do they cut out Oscar scenes? do they the office is a liberal show but also Oscar being gay it's not like it's like him and his partner lovingly having like a wedding ceremony it's like a joke but i feel like

it's pro gay we know that but i don't think that i don't think it's so i don't think it's so in your face that there was ever had to be a conversation about it it'd just be funny the whole church is booing every time oscar comes on they're like boo get out no i mean it it was a kind of progressive like you know we've talked we talked about sex a lot of churches did not talk about sex at all and we would talk about sex and there's always like the like white midwestern youth pastor like guy way to talk about sex is to be like look you guys first of all they split you up by gender because there's only two and they could be like look you guys i love sex my wife is a smoke show but god made sex feel good because it's only supposed to happen in marriage so and he would

like but it was it felt so cool because like older people and other churches would just not talk about it yeah you know and then you know you'd have like your cool young like non-denominational youth pastors being like i love sex it feels good uh but ultimately you know i mean like this like kind of like faux candid yeah yeah yeah yeah and and um so they would split us up but it was like this cool environment where there was like a band you didn't have to wear a suit you could wear whatever you wanted you could bring whoever you wanted they were giving away ipods your friends would come to school and be like you got to come to church man we're having a blast and when you're hearing him say this thing did you think well maybe i'm gay at that point i have i i started thinking i was gay well i there are things i look back on that i'm like oh third grade second grade there were things there were things happening that

did not click for me that i was not feeling that people were saying. People were doing like, we're going to go get married under the tree type stuff on the playground. And I was like, oh, not this time. You know what I mean? Like I was honest. But I didn't know what it was. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't like, I am a homosexual.

But then like middle school for sure. I saw stuff on TV and movies and heard and we talked about it at church. And I was like, oh, this. know saw stuff on tv and movies and heard and we talked about it at church and i was like oh this but that whole period of like i don't know like six maybe sixth or seventh grade of like realizing what it is and oh that's me to maybe like probably ninth grade almost maybe tenth grade was just like okay fix this gotta fix this pray about that's how you saw it you saw it as like a uh-oh everybody yeah everybody can feel a way it's just like feeling, it's just like saying curse words or like feeling disrespectful towards your parents. Like it's like, yeah, everyone has feelings, but you got to fix it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like through hard work, you can fix it. That was how I felt about it. This adult saying, you know, my wife's a smoke show and you're listening like, well, you know, she's pretty. She's got a good fashion sense, I guess, but I wouldn't want to like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't recognize that she's hot touch her body

well I feel like for a long time a problem that I had with figuring out my sexuality was that of course we know as adults this is the gayest thing in the world but I had so much reverence for women like I loved women I loved being around women so much

and talking to women and then guys at church would describe me like I love my wife she's my best friend Like I loved women. I see. I loved being around women so much and talking to women. And then guys at church would describe, be like, I love my wife. She's my best friend. And I'd be like, all of my best friends are girls. I must be in love with them. And then, but then, yeah, when I was thinking about anything sexual, it was not about girls or women. So I was like, okay, maybe.

So then for a while I was like, maybe if I can just do sexual stuff with girls, like if I can make out or whatever, then I'd be like, then it would click. And that would turn on that part of this Christian godly love. Sure. So whatever. It's all bullshit. It's all bad. It's like your view. I mean, do you look back – sometimes I look at – I was a lonely kid. I didn't have community.

Family didn't have – my dad didn't have community. Family didn't have my dad didn't have friends. So sometimes I see religion and you know my girlfriend Tova has this like Jewish background and like has friends that they do you know dinners and do you look back on any of it and go oh I guess that part was good. I did

get anything or do you say throw it all out. It's hard for me because the I don't keep in touch with any of those people. The friends that I still have. Did they stop speaking to you when you came out? No. In fact, I don't even know that most of them Give back the iPod. Give us our fucking Nano, you faggot.

They get to call me a faggot. They look at the playlist. They get to call me a faggot. They look at the playlist. They're like Liza Minnelli. Faggot. We want the gay iPod back. I don't even know that most of them, I have no idea what they're up to. I don't know where they live. I don't know what they do. I'm not on Facebook anymore.

When I was, I wasn't friends with them. I don't know how they feel about the world. I assume that a good number of them are conservative, Trumpy type people. But probably a good number of them are also not. Everyone has different journeys with that stuff. No clue. But I just didn't really connect with those people. And the people I do stay in touch with from my hometown were not church friends.

They were like school friends and friends I met through like student council type stuff or whatever. So the community aspect of it is not something I look back on and go, oh, thank God for that. But I do think if there's anything I'm like grateful for that I'm like, oh, thank God I had this, was like, I feel like I'm a pretty good person. I feel like I'm a nice friend. I feel like I have good values. I'm not evil. I don't hurt people on purpose. And I'm like, would I be a worse person if I didn't?

You know what I mean? It's hard to tell. Were there certain moral lessons you feel like did stick with you? Not directly, but just being around people who were talking about, you know, when they weren't talking about weird shit and being weird, they were just talking about being good people and like taking care of your neighbor and you know what I mean? is that the reason I turned out to be a person that I'm proud of? And then I think my family is proud of, or what I've turned out that way anyway, and going to that stuff really just fucked me up sexually and mentally. Yeah.

I had a friend, I had a friend in college. He ended up coming out after college, which for musical theater, it usually for musical theater majors, it usually at least happened in college, but he came out way later. But I remember he told me that he grew up religious and like,

he was so scared. every time he masturbated he would cry after because he thought he would be going to hell yeah for doing it and i remember the kind of kid i was like existentially angsty if i had had the concept of hell yeah in my imagination i think it would have truly haunted me it would have kept me up at night. Oh, it's very haunting. Yes. Like, Tove and I were listening. There's some new show, Orthodox, some person who left the community. And there's something about like, if your daughter is unchaste,

like their version of hell, she'll have to dress in clothing dipped in acid that burns their skin. Like that was just part of the lore. And I was like, if you really think about that in eternity of wearing acid dipped clothing and you have any kind of imagination, it's a very upsetting, it could ruin your life.

There's a, I think that's why there's such a huge, I mean, there are other reasons too, but there's a huge pipeline between like a devout, good Christian kids or devout, good religious kids into being artists is because the reason it latches so hard

is because you have the creativity to be like burning in hell every day for eternity. You have the imagination to be like, I can picture that. That sounds horrible. That's why I don't understand people like, you know, J.R.R. Tolkien or C.S. Lewis

or even like a Tom Cruise, people who are artistic and like understand how the imagination can take you wondrous places who still think this story was correct. Like, you know, J.R.R. Tolkien creates this whole fantastical world and still doesn't look at it and go like, oh, I guess someone could have done that with Jesus. Right. And it doesn't make sense to me yeah i i i was in a

very i think that the best thing that ever happened to me was that like you know 10th 11th grade through like maybe middle of college i was just in a super antagonistic place with people who were religious like my favorite thing was to get on facebook and post like an atheist meme like wait so you said in college this was yeah like middle high school into early college kind of was there a moment what like what was it that really made you go like oh this is bullshit dude the religion yeah um i think it was well there were different it was a very layered like multi-step thing yeah and i think ultimately it ended up being about realizing i'm not going to be able to stop being gay that is obviously going to continue to happen um i've really given it like a good

college try and it's not going to go it's not sticking and that was part of it but i do remember there was actually um there was actually uh like in in like middle school i went to this this youth group session that i remember so vividly that was one of my big awakening moments where i was like i'm gonna keep trying this but this religion seems kind of fucking made up was it what this girl in our youth group asked our youth pastor like um what happens to somebody in a far corner of the world who has never been witnessed to and doesn't know jesus christ and has never been saved what happens if they live their whole adult life having never heard about Christianity, and they die? One of the classic questions. Do they go to hell?

Yeah. And our youth pastor was like, well, the Bible says that because of the wind and the trees, you should know God, and that you should know Jesus as your Savior. And I'm just sitting there like, I wouldn't know that. If no one ever talked to me about Jesus and I saw wind in the trees, I wouldn't be like, a man died on the cross.

You know, I would not come up with this. And it was so fucking crazy to me. In that same session, someone asked about suicide. I think a kid a couple of times over had committed suicide. So it was like a thing we had to have like a breakout session about. And the fucking youth pastor guy was like unfortunately they are going to hell and i was like oh like this seems really made up that seems insane they're like 15 you know what i mean like there was just there were conversations like that all along the way where i was like this is not

cool and then but you're so scared it really then, but you're so scared. It really is the fear. You're so scared of the eternal hell thing. What did you think hell was? Like, in your mind, did you have a real picture? Yes. Like, burning in a lake of fire forever, every day. And you're just, you're floating in it?

You're swimming? Are you just sitting? You're just screaming? You're screaming. And you see other people screaming? You're just screaming. You're screaming. My vision of hell as a child was you are – it's like if someone lit me on fire right now, the way I would scream and the pain that I would feel, that every day for eternity.

I was like that is hell. And do you see your friends? Do you talk to them? You don't get to see anybody. You're just screaming. Yeah, you don't get to see anybody. Did you have a conception of what heaven was like? Like did you see it?

Was it just life? conception of what heaven was like like did you see it was it just life i think as a kid i pictured it like you live in the clouds with everybody you've ever loved and everything is perfect and you get to like walk with god and you get to know god personally after all these years of like just like trying to have a conversation you know you have these conversations but you get to meet him yeah and you just live in bliss like everything's perfect it's like you're i think it was described to us at one point as like the happiest you've ever been on earth, your very best day, like your birthday or whatever. The time you've been happiest around all the people you love, every second of heaven is that. So I was like, oh, that sounds cool.

And the fire thing honestly sounds really weird and bad. So I was like, okay. You know, the goal is pretty clear whenever I see speaking of just the church and being gay I see sometimes these Jesus depictions where he's looking good

he's hot where he's hot and I'm just like and there's all this stuff like I want to I want to be with you know be embraced by my savior

and I'm just and I'm looking at Jesus he has a six pack on the cross yeah I don't know I don't know where he fitted in

yeah but there's just a i always i'm like why is he so sexy this feels homoerotic there seems to be something about you want to be with him yeah that is just a strange mix to me well it's it's it's that's like the whole thing with cults is like all of those like savior like grand like daddy type of like it always morphs into weird sex shit. It's always about sex. It always comes to weird sex shit.

The images, the relationship, the like all the church scandals. I mean like it, all of it is sexual because they're all so fucking weird and repressed. And they don't talk about what's actually going on. What do you think about when like, you know, know the the the the vatican will like be like okay being gays okay now like they they clearly they capitulate because they're like we're losing followers yeah we'll loosen this a little bit yeah we'll say okay you're not gonna burn in hell for eternity five years if you're gay then you can go to heaven like they they come up with all these ways to like kind of loosen it yes do you do you view it and do you just like

burn it all to the ground would you like like do you want do you want the religion would you be happy to have it just all disappear no no no i don't care some people i think keep it i what you know it does i think it's necessary i think so many people truly only get through life like average people like i think it's so important to it's important to a lot of people that i know and love it so many people really only get through life which is horrible life is horrible you know there's so much shit going on that's bad that most people only get through life with that stuff and i think that most people don't use it for bad i think the average person really does not sit around and think about gay people or abortion or anything.

I think the average person who is not a fucking loon, like crazy weirdo, just thinks of religion as like this back burner, like flow of energy that's like, well, at least when this is all over, I have a nice thing. And I think that generally is net positive. I agree. I think sometimes with the QAnon stuff that that's what ends up replacing religion. I think people need this narrative really badly in their life of good versus evil. Yeah. And QAnon is kind of like, I feel like QAnon kind of rises because religion has kind of lost its steam in terms of how it tells you to live your life. So QAnon is like is like well there's these bad pedophiles and we have to get rid of them yeah and so that's when i'm like oh maybe maybe

christianity's not as bad if this is what's next yeah it's kind of cult-like thinking yeah i think people have their crypto religions everyone has their thing that makes them i think for some people it's the entertainment industry i think it's fucking conspiracy theories it's political parties it's what like like uh super hardcore environmentalism like they're everyone finds something to attach themselves to and attach so much meaning to that it gets them through the day and i think it's not all bad that some people's that version of that is a religion that has done a lot of bad i think for a lot of people they have they're in you know christianity or catholicism or whatever and you know those institutions are weird but overall it just gets most people to like get out of bed in the morning and i think okay so we probably need that or they will do a q anon type thing which is insane

bumble knows it's hard to start conversations hey no too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick? That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations. You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. Skippable. Midnight snacks? Skip. My neighbor's nightly saxophone practices?

Uh, nope. You're on your own there. Could have skipped it. Should have skipped it. Skip to the good part and get groceries, meals, and more delivered right to your door on Skip. Now, can I ask about your, do you know your dad? Yes. Did you, like, grow up knowing him? Or did you, tell me your dad? Yes. Did you grow up knowing him?

Tell me your family's history. My dad and my mom were friends. They hooked up, and my mom got pregnant with me. My dad, I think, maybe wanted to be together. And your mom already had kids. Yes, my brother. Your brother. Yes yes and my sisters are a whole different story they are technically not okay so we'll get to that later my family is complicated of course um but my mom had my brother and my mom was like i'm gonna have the kid and mistake i'm honestly mistake my mom probably should have gotten an

abortion with my brother and then with me but she decided to have me anyway and then um decided not to be with my dad but they were very cordial and like raised me kind of i would go to my dad on like every other weekend my whole life and they've always been like um not necessarily i mean i don't want to paint it like it was like a really healthy productive situation but they never talked bad about each other, which I've always appreciated. That's fantastic. And I think they both really like have a certain amount of respect for each other. And they both acknowledge that my mom is a good parent who did everything for me. And my dad did his best.

Now, was he – he wanted a relationship. She did not. I believe that is the story, yes. Okay. Did it feel like he pined for her? Or was he dating? Did he figure out his own life? No, he never dated.

I mean, my dad doesn't really date. He works and goes home. And he's not a dating guy. He's also not a social guy. He doesn't really go out. And he literally works, goes home. He's a gamer. He's a gamer. not a social guy. He doesn't really go out. And like he literally works, goes home. He's a gamer. He's a gamer.

He reads a ton. He loves like movies and he's like my dad's a very inverted like smart person who enjoys I think reading books and playing games and like doing stuff like that. Never dated. I never knew the thing about him and my mom. Never really cared to ask. I just knew they weren't together. Yeah.

And then when I was like I don't know 17 or 17 or 18, my dad at Thanksgiving was like, we were just talking about life. And he was like, yeah, so this is kind of what happened with you. And I was like, oh, cool. You never wondered what happened between your two parents? Not really. I don't know why. Because I remember my dad bringing up that story with my mom and how I kind of came about.

And I was like, oh, cool. I really was just kind of like, I live with my mom and my dad's around and that's just how it is and I my dad is like a really stern guy also he can be very fun and like in family settings but he's mostly just like a stern quiet guy and so I was never like god I wish my parents were together I was thrilled that they weren't together yeah because I didn't have to spend much time with him and we didn't that we didn't have a ton of did you did you not look forward to those weekends oh i hated going really i hated going to his house he on my my dad my whole childhood i don't think my dad ever should have had kids we'll start there i don't think they have joint custody or was it

just a i don't think they ever did anything legal about it really yeah okay because there was definitely a period of time where yeah i don't think they ever did anything legal about it. It was just that my mom, I lived with my mom and I visited my dad. And, yeah, my dad should have never been a parent and I think knows that now and has gotten, he's grown so much throughout my life and is now in a place where, like, you know, being such an absent parent and being like, yeah, I really knew I was doing a bad job. And he has so much insecurities around like he didn't want me to have the kind of mental health problems that he has. And he thought it would rub off if we spent so much time together. Like really like heady shit. But now looking back, you said you didn't enjoy going to his house. No.

But he's like he should have been more involved. Yes. So I would go there and, he should have been more involved. Yes. So I would go there and he really, we wouldn't do anything. Like he would just play video games or like do whatever and I would just be at his house.

Whereas like- What video games was he playing back then? Like World of Warcraft, I think. World of Warcraft, okay. Back then, I mean this is like 2003, whatever that was.

I find video games, I like stopped playing video games before I went to college. Yeah. But I certainly know some guys who play video games as an adult. And, you know, fine. But some get – it's like I'm like, oh, you're addicted to this. Or this like they do it in the morning.

They do it at night. And I'm like that's why I just didn't fuck with it because I'm like I don't get addicted to things, but I do – I get games. And I like like just sitting and staring. And to have a parent like that, it feels – I mean it's like dealing, similar to what you deal with an alcoholic. There's other things that happen there. But it's an absentness. And it wasn't my real life. None of my friends' parents knew my dad.

None of my friends came over and played. We didn't go to the park. We didn't, like, everything about my normal life as a kid, the sports teams I was on and the places I played and the people I hung out with. And all of that was my real life with my mom. And then when I would go visit my dad, it's like I basically lived in a void for the weekend. Where I didn't see anyone, didn't go do anything. It wasn't fun at all. You know, you're a kid.

You want to do stuff constantly. And so it just felt like one weekend felt like 17 months. Because I was just like, oh man, when do I get to go do shit again? Were you just watching him play? Were you reading? Were you watching? I was watching him play or watching stuff together, but like never stuff that I wanted. If we watched stuff together, it was like a documentary, like World War II documentaries or stuff that he wanted to watch.

Which partially weird and bad to do to a kid to be like, turn off Disney Channel. We're going to watch World War II documentaries. weird and bad to do to a kid to be like turn off disney channel we're gonna watch world war two documentaries but also partially like i do i am grateful for a certain level of like him showing me media that was like educational and like i learned a lot and i i really feel like i was watching adult stuff more than like other kids my age and i i think it gave me um yeah it just gave me a it gave me a point of view and a perspective that was very different. Do you have a lot of World War II knowledge? No, but I don't feel like I actually know that.

I didn't retain that much about it, but I did get into documentaries and I did develop a love for watching things that weren't just cartoons. I didn't watch a lot of cartoons growing up, mostly because my dad didn't. And I was like, I want to watch smart stuff. Do you get anxious about him?

Like, my dad is a very, a very, like, doesn't have a lot of friends. He's got a girlfriend right now. I mean, I don't know. I need to check the on and offness of it. But I certainly have a fear of him. Like, man, I wish you would get some fucking friends. Because it feels like you get older. Life gets very tough.

As you get older, you deal with a lot of dark shit yeah and if you don't have friends you have whatever brothers and sisters you have that are still alive and then your kids yeah and uh do you ever worry about him sure yeah i i uh constantly and i i i wish that he would go do stuff um see him therapy fuck no no not at all um yeah there i wish that he would go to therapy i wish they would date i wish he would make friends i wish he was social he has very he has i'm on a level of social anxiety that i cannot even explain like do you have any of it no but the scariest thing anyone has ever like people in my family will often tell me how my dad was when he was like 22 and he was extremely outgoing, like always everywhere.

Like what people loved him. And then he just like got into this depressive episode that has lasted since then. And he lives in now. And so there, I mean that there's, it's impossible to hear that and not be like, when does mine start?

You know what I mean? Like, when is that going to happen to me? But like, you're just playing a video game one day and you're like, this is really fun. I think I'll stay in the house forever. No, I don't have it.

And I think that like, I mean, I do have depression and anxiety and things like that because I'm a smart person who pays attention. Of course. But I don't, I like people. I love being around people. I hate being alone actually. But if I'm, but when I'm not around people, I'm like, let's get some people in here. Yeah.

And does your mom, does she dig your comedy? Does she watch? Does she come to shows? Yeah. My mom has come to shows. My mom, I don't know if she did. She's very proud. Like she loves to show her friends when I'm on TV or something.

Or she loves to, she tells her friends incorrect things. Like she will tell, like I will tell her, hey, don't tell anyone this, but I'm auditioning for the third time for this huge thing and it seems like I'm going to get it or it seems like I have a possibility of getting it, whatever, whatever. I'll tell her this confidential stuff because I want to talk about it and you can't always talk to your friends

about stuff like that. My mom's very supportive. And then two months later, I'll be home and her hairdresser will be at the house and we'll be like, your mom told me that you're on Saturday Night Live. And I'll be like, incredible, I'm gonna kill myself. Oh my God, that's so funny.

And I'm like, also, that's so fact checkable, but no one cares. They're just like, cool, he's on Saturday Night Live. Do you just let it sit for a little, get to live that dream for a second? Yeah, I just, yeah, me, John Mulaney just did the show and we're friends now no i'm instantly like that's not true my mom doesn't know what she's talking about thank you though see i don't

i never tell my parents when i'm like auditions or callbacks because i don't want that question after you know five months later so did that did that tv show ever work out i'm like uh fucking no because i just asked you for some more money right now so clearly no yeah i did not book that thing so i just don't tell unless it's a done i have to because my mom is like my best friend so like i it's re it's like not even like i'm telling my parents it's like i gotta talk through this with somebody i'm feeling crazy yeah my i'm so proud my mom she's she she lives in la so she's come to a bunch of these shows and um you know someone she's some of these shows she's the oldest one in the audience

because it's all kind of people in their 20s and the host like kind of gravitates to her like who do you know on the show and she's so good now she's like no one i'm just here because she knows just not to like it'll be a whole thing and. I have a lot of very mean mom jokes. Very cruel in a way that if you knew she was there – You wouldn't have fun. It's not going to work. People are going to go, oh. Yeah.

You mean Susan? I'm sitting next to her. Exactly. I remember once early on in stand-up, I was headlining stand-up New York, and it was like a huge deal. It felt like a big deal. And I told the host, I was like, whatever you do, do not reveal that my mom is in the audience. And from the back, from the green room, I guess, the hallway, I heard the host ask, well, I'm like, what do you do for work? And she was like, I'm a Pilates teacher.

And I was like, fuck, that's my fucking mom. But she knew. And I didn't even tell her that time. But she knew not to reveal it. And I'm very proud of her. Yeah, that's amazing. I don't know. I don't think she finds me funny.

I don't think she finds a lot of things funny. Yeah. Every once in a while, I'll make the mistake. I'll be like, Mom, what do you think of this joke? And I'll tell her the joke. And she'll go like, it's not your best. And I'm like, yeah, of course it's not my best. I have one best.

I wouldn't be asking you if it was my best. And she just like, humor is just not a thing yeah for her and that can be frustrating yeah but she's proud of me of like she can understand oh this was a good thing or oh people laughed yeah other people laughed at this yeah but it's frustrating that i can't that she just doesn't get why she doesn't get the thing in and of itself yeah my mom is funny but i don't think she cares i think if i told my mom i think my mom genuinely wants me to be happy and so when i you know was in chicago doing like shows for five people and making negative money spending money to do comedy uh i just you know would call my mom stress the fuck out and be like i don't know if i can keep

doing this and she'll be like okay don't and i'll be like but i have to and she picked then do like she she does not care and that's how close you are you she's your call for those moments oh god yeah well yes that those and then also there's that particular type of energy where i'm like i don't know if i've got what it takes to be you know and and then there's also um my i'm a hypochondriac and my mom's a nurse oh i would do let me so we stay in touch i would do anything to have that because my mom's not a nurse but i still go to her for that stuff yes last night uh i got a weed pen that i bought at my mom's like two years ago and just had been at the house. And so she gave it to me and I went back and Tova and I were together and it was like stuck. So and I've had weed pens get stuck before.

So you just like inhale hard and then it like clearly whatever stuck like it came out. And so like a little bit of the weed oil or whatever like got in my mouth. Yeah. And I started cancer freaking out. I'm like, I'm going'm gonna die and and tova uh we both have different kinds of anxiety but she's like all right walk me through this so what do you think is in the pen that would kill you automatically that they would that you could smoke though yeah but it kills you automatically in the mouth and it doesn't really work i mean my anxiety i'm, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm going to die right now. Yeah.

And I've had, she's noticed whenever I feel anxious about other stuff, I constantly think, my Uber driver gave me a little treat. Yeah. And in my head,

I was like, this is like, I ate it. And then the moment I ate it, I said, why the fuck did I eat that? That was poison. This is a serial killer.

It's poison. This is like some weird thing that they do and they'll never be able to track him and he's just killing for fun, I guess. He doesn't even get to see me die. And I threw, this is how far it goes.

I threw the wrapper in the trash can. And that's when I started having all these thoughts. I'm like, I should have held on to the wrapper. So when they find me passed out, they can look at the wrapper and go, oh, he clearly ate this. We got to take this to the lab. And yeah, that's my mind. The crazy thing about hypochondria to me is that so much of life is unpleasant. There are so many things in life that make me go, well, I got to do that now.

That I'm like, why are you so attached to the idea of hanging around? I get so scared of dying. But then the 15 things I have to do in a day, 14 and a half of them, I'm like, would be amazing if I didn't have to do this. So it's like, what is the attachment about? Hypochondria, is there anything that recurs, any particular thing that always scares you?

I mean, I can get creative with it, but I of course have my mainstays. Blood clots are a huge one. I get scared of blood clots because they can happen anytime. You might not know, and they will simply kill you. Did the vaccine blood clot thing scare you? Actually, no. And it was insane that it didn't because I got Johnson & Johnson, which is the one that was having the thing.

It's really insane that that didn't get to me. But as soon as it came out, I was like, I'm not worried about that. Wasn't it mostly with women? Yeah, it was mostly with women in a certain age range. And also mostly, it was like seven people out of a million. Yeah. Or out of like 15 million or something. I just was like, I can't be worried.

Because also, I think there are times when I can be very logical about it where I'm like, there is absolutely zero alternative. Like, the thing that scares me is when I'm laying in my bed and i think i feel a pain in my calf and i'm like if you don't go to the hospital now and you die you in the afterlife or whatever will be so sad that you didn't just go to the hospital because they could have saved you there was a there's a different thing i could have done but with the vaccine thing it's like i can't apply this logic of like there was absolutely no other option you had to get a vaccine i think you in the afterlife the flames of hell would distract you from thinking about it your eternal pain and burning in hell in the lake with all the other gay people that's

the one upside yeah and i actually i do want to say and i haven't gotten a chance to compliment you yet on the pod your stance i've been waiting for it this whole fucking time i'm i was i wanted to wait until it's right time your stance as a homophobic comedian is so powerful i love that you're not afraid to say that gay people go to hell. I've always admired that about you because so many people now with cancel culture and stuff are scared to say gay people will burn in hell. You know, there's this belief we all have to have the exact same beliefs. Well, guess what? There's one belief I have that is not liberal at all.

Gay people go to hell. I've been to a lot of musical theater camps. I know what I'm talking about. And honestly, I mean, okay, we're kidding. But if I had been to a lot of musical theater camps. I know what I'm talking about. And honestly, I mean, okay, we're kidding, but if I had been to a lot of musical theater camps, I probably would be homophobe. Sure. Because I have a lot of musical theater friends and it gets me pretty close. But that was my community.

I've had so many, I mean, speaking of, I've had so many gay male friends over the years. It's funny, you were not at the party that Tovo you had left by then the gathering yes yes yes but then like the moment I get there I saw an old friend of mine and suddenly it's just me

and three gay guys and it's just like that's where I gravitate towards it's like that's just the group I feel at home with I think because of all the musical theater

yeah so just to clarify I'm not I will be in the lake of fire with you don't walk it back I'll be in the lake of fire with you don't walk it back i'll be in the lake too be strong and i'll be like this is not satan this is not cool this is not satan thinks you're gay satan thinks i'm gay i'm sure you keep trying to tell me like please please

and he's like no i don't i don't think so dude well i have some jokes because i my mom like it's kind of a trope where there's straight comics being like people thought I was gay. My mom, there is a part of her that really does believe like, oh, I might be a homosexual. I think she, and in a good way, where she's like, I hope he figures this out. Right. Before it's, you know, before it's too late. Yeah. Where he can still enjoy this part of his life. Yeah.

And she really believes it. Yeah. And I think that's a nice thing. I think it's too late yeah he can still enjoy yeah this part of his life yeah and she really believes it yeah and uh i think that's a nice thing i think it's beautiful i i i i get really disappointed at the idea of i have a lot of straight male friends every single one of them disappoint me the fact that they're straight i think is so upsetting i'm upset by you being straight um or at least dating women i think i when I think about my little cousins, the idea of them turning into straight men is so truly nauseating. It makes me look at them different. Like I'll be playing with them

and then I'll remember like, oh, someday they're going to date people and they might date women. And even when we're just, they're like six, I'm playing and I go, fuck, that's,

now I'm like, you need to go in the other room. I need a minute. Because it's so, to me it's just, it's just so unenlightened. If you found out they were gay, would you feel a certain kind of joy of like, oh, cool? Instant of joy, immediate anger, jealousy. Jealousy. Now you're gay?

You're going to be gay in my family? Ah, I see. I started this. I do have a transgender cousin who voted for Trump. Incredible. And they are perfect to me. I love them because they didn't, you know, I don't like them. And a lot of people in the family don't.

I'd love to have them on the podcast. I'd love to find more how it all makes sense. I think they might also be a prison guard. I can't remember if that was them. Yeah, we really lost touch. I mean, around the election, I said, all my family members who voted for Trump and wouldn't have a conversation about it, I was like,

we're done. And they were one of them. So I don't know what they're up to, but it goes that way, you know? That's what you gotta do. The people who would have a conversation about it, even if we didn't end up agreeing, who would, like, engage with me on it, I kept around. Because I was like, maybe someday. And I did get a few of them on the second time around but the people that the first election were just outright like fuck you i'm not going to talk about it i was

like cool we have there's what would we be doing here you know what i mean there's nothing left you have to go guard people at the prison i have to go be cool we have different lives we have different lives i don't know um well on on that let's uh let's move on to uh i know you read the email tova told me you're very you're you're like a you're a you're a diligent guy i could be a businessman if i wanted to yeah i'm a i'm a good we tova we were just talking at the thing the other night everybody at the table at this table uh you know creative types were like i could never be an agent or a manager and i I was like, I could. And Tova was like, you really could. I'm good at the little, like,

I take instructions well. Yeah. I read emails. I did read your emails. You did? Well, good. Well, then let's go to our segment. This has got to stop. Sound cue? This has got to stop. Thank you so much. Fantastic. Once again, let me give a shout out to Third Wheel Podcast Studio. This is my first time recording here, and it's been

very pleasant so far. It's amazing. It was tough to find, but in the building. Oh, yeah This is my first time recording here and it's been very pleasant so far. It was tough to find in the building. Oh, yeah. But now that we're here, it's fantastic. But then you get in and it's beautiful. The journey. Yeah. This has got to stop.

This is where we talk about things that have got to stop. Parts of society, things people do. Did you have one that you wanted to share? I think one that I've really been thinking on lately is the lack of gatekeeping around the word trauma. thinking on lately is the lack of gatekeeping around the word trauma we're letting people say trauma these days about absolutely anything and i cannot believe it i i literally had a friend recently tell me that she can't be corrected directly in a conversation because she has trauma around being yelled at by her teacher in elementary school.

And I just thought, that is the most fucking insane thing I've ever heard in my life. And I don't think you should be allowed to call them. Maybe you should, but- No, I don't- Someone should be deciding. I don't disagree with you.

It should go to a tribunal. There should be some deciding board that says, can you call that trauma? Yes. And I'm not saying I should be on it. I'm not even saying she can't call that trauma. I'm just saying there should be a board somewhere that gatekeeps the word because it's gotten so used. If I had a more extreme trauma in my own life, I might feel more comfortable being like, no, that's not trauma. Yeah.

This is what trauma is. You feel trauma-free. I've had trauma, but I feel like I respect where I'm like, look, I'm okay. None of this trauma rises to the level that I should use this word or use it as a reason why I can't be corrected in a conversation? What does that mean? What does that mean? So, okay, so if you say a falsehood,

we should just proceed. Well, you're supposed to, I think the idea is like, you know, if we're in a group setting and I say something incorrect, it's going to make me shut down and feel very traumatized if you bring it up right in the moment

and correct me. I would prefer if you waited until later and we talked about it privately. And I'm just like, it doesn't matter that you prefer that that's not actually how things it's like okay i mean i guess maybe i'll consider that but i don't think i will because i think that's insane like that's an insane request that urge in the moment to correct her right then and there that trauma that this is a trauma i think you would have done a double double hit on. I think my exact response was, okay.

Because I was like, I just don't want to more than anything, I don't want to get into stuff. I just have my little opinions and I think that they're... You take swings on Twitter though. And I hate getting into stuff. I hate when people... I mean I do. Twitter is a snake pit full of pythons. I think it's a very...

I mean this is where kind of your biggest following is and you do great work on Twitter, but it is a tough place to be. It's hard. At that level. People are mean. You deleted one tweet that I jokingly gave you a little bit of shit about and that was pretty minor. Which one was it? It was about, you know, Twitter comedy isn't real. Real comedy is performing for 30 people at the Bumblefucks under Highway 30

and I said this but unironically you do think that but unironically we're very opposed no I absolutely you hate online comedy that's false I do try I respect all kinds of comedy

I think as a stand upup comedian yeah there's a lot of stand-up comedians that i think uh the new world does not lend itself to promoting their talents or i certainly know older comics who couldn't figure out social media yeah who still have eight hashtags every time they put a tweet out there yes and you don't know why they don't look at the news feed and go hmm no, no one's using these hashtags anymore, but I'm still gonna do it. And I've written some of them and I say, hey, I love you. I love you, buddy.

Gotta stop with the hashtags. You gotta stop. But I do think, unfortunately, stand-up is this kind of weird collective pipeline where everyone who has kind of followings in different arenas or who thrives at different art forms also kind of gets put up on the standup shows and tours the funny bones.

And I go, this is a strange that this has become kind of the collective pool that every other comedic art form ends up kind of funneling into standup. And I think there's a lot of bad standup comedy taking up rooms at premier venues. So there's a lot of bad stand-up comedy taking up rooms at premiere venues. So there's a sensitivity there. Because they sell tickets. Because they sell tickets. But I think there used to be a time where you went to XYZ Comedy Club because you knew you were going to see good comedy there. And now it's like you went to the comedy club because so-and-so who you're familiar with, who's good at making six-second clips.

There also used to be a time when a little man in a uniform dropped milk off at the stoop and that's how you got your milk who fucking cares who fucking cares i'm so it's so annoying it's jealousy of course it's jealousy but i do think it's unfortunate i don't have to respect it sure but you understand you understand that you understand if it was some weird bizarro world where like great stand-up comics got to do POV videos and they fucking blew chunks and that there would be like a, oh, this is bad. That's why you're very good. You're a very good comedian in every art form you've ever attempted. You're astounding. But you can understand.

Of course I understand. That stand-up is this. For some reason, I mean, no, it makes sense because it's the easiest, cheapest form of live entertainment where you can just go, we're putting this person in front of me. Of course I understand that. see kind of southern mama just perform at every venue you ever wanted because he knew how to make funny videos where he talked like he was a southern woman yeah going yeehaw yeah so it's okay to feel bitter sure you can feel bitter of course you can make your tweets you can do whatever you want i don't care and because and i do understand i have trauma because i have trauma around not being booked at the funny bone i have trauma around not headlining madison Funny Bone. I have trauma around not headlining

Madison Square Garden yet. Yes, I do. Look, I do understand it. Do whatever you want. Stand-ups who hate internet comedians. I don't hate internet comedians. No, I don't think you do.

I'm saying there is that contingent of people who you are partially in defense of. You're at least giving some space to. I think that's very kind of you. I feel no reason

to give space to them. I don't care. Yeah, I think that you're allowed to uh i don't really like doing internet videos i mean i don't do a lot of them i haven't done i i do like one every three months you know what i mean sure i i totally get it i think it's where are you happiest where am i happiest performance wise performance wise i think i am happiest doing uh something in front of a live audience sometimes that stand up and then sometimes but i don't feel the drive around stand up that that real stand-ups do that like they want i don't really care to do an hour or a special or i think of something funny and then i do sets for a while and i do this i try

this out and i like it and sometimes i like doing characters more doing like a like I'm writing a solo show right now that I think will be very fun for me um but ultimately I'm happiest when I'm in a room of cool fun people and I get to stand up and say something that I think is funny I have no concerns over like the stuff that I think a lot of those comics are very concerned about because it's their number one, like their art form, their craft. They want to be stand-ups. I want to be an actor and a writer more than anything. Yeah. So, like, I'm not worried about, like, this, the perfect setup, the perfect punchline, the crafting your half hour and then doing your hour and getting the – I just am having fun with it, you know?

That sounds lovely. It is lovely for me. But I also, by virtue of that, I get the privilege of sitting back on the sidelines and being like you guys sound like idiots like when when these old cop when these old like stand-up dudes do these like long screeds about like yeah fucking tiktok and now you got the twitter video and they all talk like this now you got the twitter it's like you just look dumb if you if you're not getting what you want and the only pathway you see to getting that is videos then there are two options you do the videos to go get it or you don't do the videos and accept that you're not going to have it but this weird thing of being like i should

still get that and i'm not going to do the one pathway is like then go crazy my dude i don't know yeah have fun i think i feel sympathy for i think there there's a sympathy I have for older people. And this is in general. I think being older, some people figure out technology and some people don't. And I think, I remember when TikTok first came out. Or I remember Snapchat, which I never figured out. I felt like Snapchat was designed to be very challenging to understand. I was like, there's one button here.

I don't know how anyone's doing stuff. And I think as we get older, if we want to participate in society, especially as an artist, it's like, you got to stay, you got to learn when the new thing that everyone's doing comes out. Some of them will fade. Hopefully clubhouse will go away forever. But like, you got to stay on top of it. Or someday you wake up one day and you don't know how to turn on your, the new computer thing because it's, it operates differently than you did when you were a kid. Yeah. And it's scary.

The march of technology is faster and faster and faster. Yeah. And I, I think I feel sympathy for older artists who, who just like, cause I like, sometimes I admire people who go like, I don't want to do the social media.

Sure. I'm like, I'm like, you know what? I think you're wiser than me because this is not making me happy. But then they find themselves kind of locked out of a part of society. Yeah. And I feel sympathy for them.

Yeah. A lock that they turned. A lock that they turned. Sure. I mean, yeah, I think that's – I think it's – I think it is – I totally feel if I'm being 100% genuine, which I guess I can do, yes, I feel sympathy for those people. That is sad. I think that my answer to them would be try and face that with curiosity. Yes.

And not so much – I just – I really do think, and this is maybe just a rule I have for myself, but if you find yourself doing like a rant about the youngins when you find yourself in that position it is absolutely time to step back and reevaluate yes because rants about young people

are almost always just stupid and lame but what's so funny is there is some stand up older stand up comedians and like the millennial shit with like their age group

of audience fucking kills oh yeah and it's so funny because part of me is like guys we're in our 30s kind of most of us.

Yeah. Like we're no longer the kids that you hate. It's not millennials anymore. But millennials for them is just this branch of like kids. Yeah. Kids these days. Millennials. And I'm like, we're older now.

And you know what I will say? If you are killing it, if your business is going off, you're selling tickets, you're selling merch, you're booking shows, and you're doing those rants and that kind of material, and it's killing it for an audience, I'm so happy for you. I think that's amazing. Of course. I think it's stupid because I'm not your audience. Sure, but I think comedians, there's also comedians you respect for their

comedic talent, and then there's people who built followings and things that I'm like, I admire that you figured this out. This is a tough, tough game. I respect the hustle. I respect the hustle. I respect the hustle at the end of the day. What's the biggest trouble you ever got? You ever delete something you felt really bad about on Twitter? Right now

there's a new Twitter account, which I love. This is a sign of real fame. Do you know who's doing it? No. I hate... The only time I've ever seen this was with Jaboukie, where someone made an account of tweets that Caleb has deleted. And they must follow you and take screenshots every time you tweet.

Yeah. And when it's deleted, they keep a little collection. And every once in a while, they throw it out there. Yeah. Some of them are very good. Some I go, why did he delete this? Numbers. Numbers.

Yeah. But I'm sure there's there you ever you ever feel like you were in hot water you ever feel nervous i have felt in hot water i don't think i have ever had to delete a tweet that i actually felt bad about i'm pretty i don't i don't really i don't really fire stuff off with zero thought i will sometimes fire i fire stuff off with between 17 thought and 150 thought they're anywhere in that range and there are times that i go oh yeah everyone is either willfully or um by some other metric misunderstanding this and so i'm just going to take it down because i don't feel like seeing these fuckers comment and i don't want to engage

i never want to engage but unless it's positive i hate when people engage with me and it's not to agree but they i've never i've never had to delete something and be like well i won't say that i did there was one time when i when i had tweeted a reaction clip of umar johnson dr umar johnson the black nationalist speaker i tweeted a reaction clip of him in a joke like like me when i get my ice cream or whatever the fuck i'd use the reaction clip of him in a joke and several black people um that i like that i really respect have replied to me and were like hey you're funny but this is no and i deleted it and messaged all of them and was like i didn't think because like he also has said some pretty homophobic shit so i

thought we were when people use him as a reaction i thought we were all in on the joke that this guy is kind of off like he says some cool shit about black empowerment and black nationalism and I'm like, hell yeah. That is not for me and no one cares if I'm like, hell yeah. But when it felt,

it did feel, that is one time I can think of that it felt pretty bad that people I respected were like, what the fuck are you doing? So yeah, I instantly deleted it

and messaged them and was like, I'm a fucking idiot. I'm sorry, I didn't even think about it. So when Caleb's deleted tweets finds that one and puts it up on that account, then it's out of your control. I will feel – yeah, I want to know who's doing that.

And of course as soon as I gave that account attention, like noticed it existed and gave it attention, people are like replying to me and DMing me and being like, oh, yeah, you're running your own deleted tweets account. Which makes no sense. Why would I put up the shit that I deleted? Like that – anyway. That's very funny. I don't know who's running it. I I deleted? Like that. Anyway. That's very funny. I don't know who's running it. I love them and appreciate them. I think it's very funny.

And I am tweeting with a little more abandon now because I know if I deleted it's going to live on somewhere else. What do you what would you say to them if they're listening to this? I imagine whoever runs Caleb said things. I feel like they probably listen to your podcast appearances. I would say that's funny. I think you're funny and that's cool. And I like that you're doing that. And it makes me feel, it does feel, I mean, it does feel nice.

It's like it's not, any attention that I get online, I'm like, I mean, it fades, but I try to be very grateful of like, damn, I come on here and just say stupid shit and people really care about it, which is cool. Well, let's move on to our last segment you uh count your blessing you better count your blessing um so this is where we say one thing we're grateful for. I'll start. Thank you. I feel like we talked about hell enough that we can be positive for a second. I'm in LA and I'm very thankful. I don't know if she listens, but my mom has been helping with the driving. And I basically come to LA and I say, so here's the two shows I have tonight. And she's like, this is one's in Malibu and one's in Orange County.

And she's like, Jesus fucking Christ. And even though it's insane, sometimes she like figures it out. She'll go to the show. She'll see me do the same fucking set. And she'll drive me a fucking hour to make another shitty show at a coffee shop. And very thankful for that. I love that. I love that mom energy. Because the Ubers have changed

here a little bit. It is not super reliable. It's not the golden days. Two years ago I took I swear it was an hour long Uber and it was like $17 and I was like Jesus amazing. Yeah. And now these trips are they cost what they're worth and thank you mom i

appreciate you i gotta tell you later about a ride share service in new york that i was obsessed with when i lived there via no get get i've heard of it anywhere between 14th and 110th ten dollar flat fee right so me and my friends we would just go we i lived on i think 117th the two summers i lived there we'd walk down to 110th right below the mark order a car take it to 14th and then if we were going or you know wherever and then if we were going further than 14th or whatever even if we're just on the train walk you know oh really great i don't know if it still exists or not but it was amazing when i live if it still exists please sponsor this podcast hop on bleep their name if they don't um no free clout and uh do you have a blessing yeah um you

told me i wasn't yours was kind of earnest and like sincere and the directions were that i couldn't be directions no no no no no no no you can be earnest the directions were like sometimes people are like family so i can't be vague yeah don't be vague okay but but but yeah anything it doesn't have to be i I will do two. I'll do my little silly one and my little nice one, and I'll do them quick. My little silly one is the other day I took a risk ordering from a Chinese restaurant. I got a new dish. I could not find a picture of it on Yelp.

Typically, I do not order something from a restaurant to be delivered unless I can find a picture of it on Yelp. Because people do some crazy shit, especially when you're ordering from a Sich to be delivered unless I can find a picture of it on Yelp. Because people do some crazy shit, especially when you're ordering from a Sichuan restaurant. Different Sichuan restaurants do dishes very differently. If they do shrimp, they might do the whole head on

or they might shell it. You gotta know what you're getting into. I took a risk. It turned out amazing. And I really loved it and the dish was so good. Tell us what it was. It was a spicy garlic shrimp

in a spicy garlic black bean sauce, which I love. And yeah, it turned out it was one of those things where if you can't find a picture, specifically with shrimp, it could be fully shelled and be like six shrimps, the big ones with the head on. Hate that. Or it could be what I like. I don't like to see the face of the thing I'm going to eat. No.

Or it could be what I like from a restaurant restaurant that does shrimp which is those cheap stupid little shrimp that are like this big but a bunch of them in a sauce with some rice love that fantastic um that's my little silly one and my real one is that you know what i i was out of town working for a little bit came back started feeling sick started reading all this news about breakthrough variants and i was like fucking kill me i got covid even though i'm vaccinated and i did all the things right before the vaccine and i fucking stayed in the house and didn't do any have any fun didn't see my family and i was like i fucking got covid i know i did and i was real sick for like two days and then i was taking delsim the whole time and cough drops and water and stuff bleep the name of the brand i just said because they won't sponsor and got better and was like

oh it can't be you don't you don't take medicine for two days and get better from covid yeah and got better that's been days ago now totally fine but i'm i'm you know it's this isn't as vague as being like my health but i'm just very grateful that i am not presently sick let me tell you i'm scared i'm scared about getting caught i I mean, we flew to LA. This is coming out August 10th, but the day that we flew into LA was when we found out they're reinstating the masks.

Yeah. And we're sitting unmasked in a room presently. So who's to say, baby? Fuck, man. But I'm vaccinated. But good. I'm glad that you're healthy.

Yeah. Well, thank you. Do you have anything you want to plug? This is coming out August 10th, so if there's any shows, make sure it's after that or just do your social media whatever you want oh I'll be

I'm doing a show check my social media because we don't have the official stuff yet but August 24th or I guess hold on one second okay well here's

looking at it I'm going to tell you I am about to do a big Texas trip I'm going to be headlining Rudyard's two shows August 13th, two shows August 14th. Then I'll be in Houston on the 15th

and then I'll be in Austin the 16th through the 18th. On the 18th I will be headlining The Creek and The Cave. So if you know anyone in Houston or Austin, tell them please to come to a show. It would be great to see you there. And Caleb, you find it? Yeah, I sure did. Kansas City I am doing a show with It would be great to see you there. And Caleb, you find it? Yeah, I sure did.

Kansas City, I am doing a show with Holmes Holmes, who I love, at the Deep Space Collective on Thursday, August 19th. And then August 24th in Chicago, I am headlining a show at Sleeping Village in Chicago. So come to those. And also, if you like podcasts, check out my podcast on the HeadGum Network.

It's called Keeping Records. And we talk about the original golden records that nasa sent into space in 1977 and then we make a new record with a guest every week um well wonderful well thank you for joining us on the downside and to all my listeners just remember uh whether there's heaven or hell a lake of fire uh death will come for every single one of us especially gay people according to this is the downside what do you know about khabad what have what are are the smattering of facts you've collected over dating me for nearly a year? For three quarters, three full fiscal quarters.

Chabad is... I always forget if Hasid is a sect of Chabad or Chabad is a sect of Hasid. The second one. Chabad is a sect of Hasid. Okay, so you know where in Brooklyn there are all these different Hasidim. What part of Brooklyn is Chabad? I know it's not the Brooklyn. Oh, what part of Brooklyn?

Trick. Well, what part of Brooklyn do you normally know that there's Hasidim? I know like the Bushwick. First of all, bad with geography right out the gate. So we're dealing with two things I'm bad at. Bushwick. Williamsburg. Williamsburg.

That's what I mean when I say Bushwick. Yeah, so not there. Yeah, I know that. Okay. Yeah, that's what I had figured. Yeah. i mean when yeah so not there yeah i know that okay yeah that's what i i had figured yeah so where is the khabat sect of judaism judaism is it crown heights crown heights what's what's in the heights is there a different branch there in washington heights yeah modern orthodox jews

modern orthodox you know what that means? Yeah, I mean, it's not, not Hasid. Yeah, but they're still like Orthodox, but they still like want to have a foot in the secular world and understand we, you know, participating in society while maintaining. You know, I think Hasidism, well, this is where it gets so complicated because Chabad, do you remember what Chabad does what it's what it does I mean like so the Williamsburg group they're very insular right that's the whole thing you watch all the documentaries they're all by themselves

they don't want any outside contact but Chabad Chabad it's not. It's not. Chabad are like the missionaries of Jews. Like, they'll go to, like, India. They'll go to China. They'll go wherever. But they don't try and convert non-Jews.

They try and, like, find Jews that grew up. They'd feel like you. They would find you and be like, he grew up without judaism we're gonna bring him back so they would be at you know university miami on the campus you know or like your sister in nyu that's what they that's what chabad does their whole mission is like finding the lost lights but the hasids do that i mean the that's what only chabad other ch other hostility groups are very much like stay out of our no but the williamsburg jews they approach me too no those are khabar jews in williamsburg or wherever you are those are all the people going are you jewish or

like 99 of the time that's their thing they do that that's what it's called which is also the um myths what is it called it's like a good deed it's a bit science you know have you you know my joke have you ever seen the full the birthright joke or the joke where i say they chase after you and then you shake something called a lila alulav which i haven't done in a while which is like a big ass leaf yeah then etrog which looks like a lemon with herpes. And you shake both these things. And then I think it's supposed to make a Palestinian disappear or something. And that's the punchline.

Yeah. I haven't done it in a while, but it usually works. Save it for a Jewish show. Yeah, I just don't know if, I think whenever, when the Palestine stuff went down, it was like,

is this too? I think there's a thousand alts you could come up with, like the cleaner or edgier like that joke that they're like edgier makes a palestinian explode i'm saying like that is the edge that end of it but if you're doing a corporate like hillel or jewish whatever synagogue it's like raising a magic wand and then like whatever wish like you could control the weather like you there's like a hundred and it makes my mother stop worrying about me for a night that would crush that would crush that would crush probably

unfortunately that's the thing with the the more uh what is it called when everyone's the same thing the more insular the more like audiences homogenous the group is i can't remember that word it's a good word the more like like just references will crush. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Also, I remember growing up as a Jewish kid because I grew up in New Orleans. I didn't know a lot of other Jews. And so if TV ever made a reference to something, I'm like, how did they know? Like, do you remember in Little Rascals? Do you watch Little Rascals?

You know, I got two pickles. I got two pickles. I got two pickles. Hey, hey, hey, hey. And at the end, she goes, are they kosher? Because everyone's like,

it's a kosher dill pickle. But growing up, I'm like watching this movie and I'm like, how do they know what kosher is? Really? Yeah,

because I didn't know that like, I didn't know what, the same thing growing up in New Orleans and I didn't realize New Orleans was a destination.

Like, I didn't realize Mardi Gras was like a destination because you're just in it. And then you grow up and you're, like, I thought growing up in New Orleans was like growing up in Cincinnati, where it's like, no one's like, oh, Cincinnati, got to go to Cincinnati. Like, I was older when I realized New Orleans is a place people wanted to flock to. And so it's the same thing where, like, there's a lot of Jewish of Jewish references where I'm like as a kid you're like how do they know about us that makes sense don't remember how we got there but listen I think I think

I mean we could do we could do a podcast we just educate me about your style if only if that's the only way to make you pay attention and actually take it in, then sure. But you've known me long enough to know that sometimes my retention abilities are lacking. For sure. I don't think it's lacking. I think your brain is filled with 40 pages of stand-up and that's how you choose to use your brain. You say choose as if I could be like, right let me delete this old yeah the dog fucking joke let's well it is true like you you know what a lulav is because you wrote a joke you would not remember the term lulav and estrog

unless you had a joke yeah can you tell me why i should remember the term lulav and estrog because it's important to me and because that's how part of my childhood and i'm your partner um i feel like this feels this this could be a podcast is it not right now where you educate me about jewishness no but i i just i uh like to get in on it too? I don't. I mean, Russell doesn't. Unlike me, Russell doesn't have to learn about Judaism. That's true. That's a tough pitch.

Hey, Russell, you know the podcast that you're still not getting paid for? How about we tack on to that one where we educate you about the intricacies of Chabad? What else? What else do you want to know? But what else would we do? Would we have Jewish guests on? You're trying to trick me into starting a podcast together, aren't you? I'm like, would we run out of stuff within two episodes?

No. There's 613 commandments in the Bible. You can go commandment by commandment. How many could you name? there's 613 commandments in the Bible. Oh my God. How many could you name? There's a lot of like, uh, farming ones where it's like, uh, like irrigation type stuff where I'm like,

I don't know. Yeah. What's one of the weirdest ones? I mean, Sean is, it's, it's one, there's three law.

I think there's only three laws that are called hooky. And you don't know why there's no reason behind them and it's it's just basically to be like you put your trust in god and your faith in god so one is kosher it's like why do we keep kosher like why there's no like ethical or moral or like interpersonal reason that you have to keep kosher you know that's not like it affects your neighbor but there's one called shotness which is you can't wear a garment that has wool and linen in it so if i bought like a coat if you bought like a wool coat you would have to send it to a rabbi to get it checked to see if there's any like strands of linen in it and everyone does that and it's like you get your stuff checked for shotness where's the rabbi getting their money is there a collection plate where are these

are these rabbis living as rich as like the who's joel olsen who's driving around in his ferrari i think there's definitely like on the upper east side and stuff there's rich congregations there's always fundraisers going on i think some rabbis like they need enough money to like live but like being off like that like joel olsen type thing is not really what their bag um and then yeah i don't know i mean like if you're a mohel you make money that way um if you're um yeah, if you're a Shatnes, if you're checking for Shatnes, like if you do a thing,

but I think it's like if you're a pulpit rabbi of a congregation, like the synagogue is funding, and membership dues are funding your salary, your house and all of that. But there are jobs within this world that you don't necessarily have to be a rabbi to do but have to be knowledgeable about these things and you can make money like a mohel like that's a service you want to pay your mohel you don't want it to be like part of the community like

part of your membership fees you want to pay a lot of money for the guy that's going to give your baby a bris just reading seth rogan's book yeah and he talked about the first time he was hired to write jokes was for a Moyle. Really? Oh, my God. Were they just like. But the Moyle apparently had like a Ferrari. And he wrote.

Oh, he was in Vancouver. But was it like a rich, fancy. Well, he said he doesn't really know. He just said that the guy pulled up in a Ferrari, paid him $50 per joke, and then tried to cheat. He said he didn't like some of the jokes. One of them was give it up for the Slice like spice girls yeah i wouldn't pay for that either no some of them were funny about like putting the wine on the baby's lips is one of the things and then he's like oh how old is this baby is this baby old enough to drink

or who is this baby driving home i baby driving home cute cute cute uh uh something something about he had to leave winnipeg because no one likes a shivering moil or something oh my god well that's like the jackie mason while i was reading on wikipedia he was like a full-on he went to the rabbinical school of my college like he went to an orthodox rabbinical school was a rabbi and was so good at giving like pulpit rabbi like shabbat speeches that like non-jews would start coming to the synagogue to like hear his speeches and that's how he's like oh maybe i should do comedy which is crazy because they all have a little sense of humor yeah i'm sure i'm sure every rabbi had a thought for a second like

yeah on the road? Take this on the road. Do you remember any, was your rabbi funny? No. I mean, the Memphis rabbi was, like, this Israeli man who was, like, very dry, very, like, poised. And, like, I was like, I can't follow this thread. And then Chabad in New Orleans, it's not, like, jokes. It's more, like, boisterous and big personalities because they have to be like very like welcoming and blah.

And like they drink a lot. It's a party, but it's not like joke driven. It's more like a good hang. Yeah. You know, for the men at least. So what would this podcast be called? We wouldn't have a podcast you're full of shit you love you love talking about this stuff so much i if i had a podcast it would be we would

i would make you watch different media that portrays orthodox jews and that would be the starting well here's my let me let me be manager here for a second wouldn't don't you think it's worth expanding it so it's it's about judaism in the world and we could have guests from you know jews from canada and jews i remember i went on a date once with a jewish woman from brussels just last week and she was talking about anti-semitism like in the day she said she went on dates where she told them she's jewish and they would stop and i mean i was shocked i was shocked i was like i thought anti-semitism stopped in the 50s it stopped in the 30s the 20s uh so it could be a mix i mean it doesn't have to just be Chabad.

Yeah. It could be that. But I mean, the thrust could be educating me. But I think also that you could see what you have. Like my little sister on the podcast. And I would love, you know, me. I'm down for exploiting all interpersonal connections for entertainment. Or like my mom who converted and be like, what the fuck? I'd love to have your mom on.

Your dad, I don't know. He'd come on and he'd start talking about, what was he talking to you about for an hour? About his gun class? Shooting range. Yeah, his gun classes and like the different, like kind of like karate. There's different belts, like the different levels of training you have to have. And he did more than he needed to hey good for him sure um what what would it be called is it called like educating me or is it called jewishness or is it called oh i hate like jewish like yeah yeah i mean it's been run into the ground. Oy, oy, oy. Oy, oy, oy. I'm trying to think if it's just straight up like there was a,

you know how like Barney and stuff you had growing up? Like we had 613 Tora Avenue was our Sesame Street. Oh, my God. Was the Big Bird, was it? I don't remember. They were like cassette tapes that you'd listen to. And it was just like 613 Taira Avenue. And it would just be all these different songs and educational stuff. I thought Big Bird was Jewish.

He's got big nose. Yeah. Okay. So stuff along again. Stuff along again. But like I feel like if the podcast was just called like Uncle My She's. Like. Uncle.

Uncle My She was huge. I don't even know how i would start to spell my she uncle my she i have no idea i lost my virginity to a man named moish wow i think it's like for comics the the like uh you say shlomo like if you're using like a super jewish guy shlomo and my rabbi in using like a super Jewish guy as Shlomo. And my rabbi in the story, the rabbi, not my rabbi, the birthright guy, his name is Shlomo.

But whenever I say it, I feel like I've heard so many comedians use Shlomo because it's just like, it's like Becky. It's like Becky for Jews. Especially for that story because it was a Chabad rabbi, I'd have to guess. Yeah. Uh-huh. You should say Mendel because Mendel's like Becky for Jews. Especially for that story, because it was a Chabad rabbi, I'd have to guess. Uh-huh.

You should say Mendel, because Mendel's like the name. Mendel. That's in the musical that I love, Falsettos. That's the name of the therapist. Yeah. Dr. Mendel. I could teach you of all the Jewish, just Falsettos. Sure.

My favorite musical. But Mendel, Menachem Mendel was the name of the Rebbe. So when he died, they all named their kids after him. So there's a million Mendels. And his wife was Chayimushka. So there's a thousand billion Chayimushkas in the world. And when I was young, I had so many kids in my school named Chayimushka that I was jealous. And I said I was Chayimushkatova.

My mom was like, no, you're not. kids in my school named chai mishka that i was jealous and i said i was chai mishkatova my mom was like no you're not that you know i have that stuff about the godfather uh where i joke about i have you seen the godfather i mean you have to but the family the crime family is corleone oh yeah and there was a time in in third grade i started signing my spelling test here marco seresi corleone no why that's what's how did you know about the godmother in third grade before I started signing my spelling test to Marco Cerezi Corleone. No, why? How did you know about the godmother in third grade?

I think I just watched it young. Maybe it was fifth, but I watched it young. Did you want to be part of the mob family? Yeah, I was just trying to own Italian. It was cool.

It was like gangster, my version of gangster. Yeah, yeah, gangster parents. And my mom was like, I don't know. Your Jewish mom? My mom was upset of just being like,

what is going on? That is truly. Well, my brother, this is not similar, but similar. But my brother drew a picture of Superman when he was little and wrote Superman with two N's at the end. Because our name Silverman has two N's. Isn't that cute? That's so cute. Superman.

That's so cute. One of my favorite stories about it. So for anyone listening to this, I think I'm going to tag this on the end of an episode of The Downside because let me tell you something. Tova is a sucker for sweet words and compliments. So if you dig this, write me. And I promise all it would take would be one person to

be like tell tova she's gotta do this and she will do it so uh we're gonna think of a title maybe it'll be a limited series maybe it'll have its own feed maybe if the downside people really like it well maybe maybe this would be like a little post thing we add to episodes a little like that matches nothing about your theme ross was like what the fuck is going on it's just like and then me and my girlfriend talk and we put that at the end he's like what is going on oh my god that's so funny um i think that's cute sometimes sometimes like npr will be like, hey, today we're releasing an episode from our sister podcast, The Thru Line. Here's a sneak peek. So what have you learned about Judaism?

What did we talk about? You already forgot all of it. There was its own... I think like that at the end, we do a little wrap up and I comedically remember what we talked about. And I get comedically mad if you forget. You guys had your own Sesame Street.

Yeah. Three, five, four. Street. I know that the people going, are, are Chabad. And I used to do it. And you used to do it. At Tulane.

At Tulane. I know your brother can't spell man correctly. And I know that orthodox, you have your one foot in the world, you have one foot in the world, and so you interact with the secular world. Well, I feel like there's like a genus species thing that needs to be, like a fundamental, like, you know, this is a rectangle, a square, square is a rectangle sort of thing that needs to be explained fundamentally first. Yeah. Of like the sects of Judaism, because there's like reform Judaism and conservative and then Orthodox and Orthodox encompasses all of this.

And it's a huge swath and Hasidic Judaism kind of falls in that group. Well, I think we'll come up with a, with a lesson plan. I mean, that's your job. I'm just here to learn. Oh yeah. Yeah. The podcast. I think what's so funny is like you, you say things like, no, we're not doing a podcast.

And then of your own free will, you sat across from me, you put on the headphones with very little coaxing. You knew I was recording. I thought we were doing a little bit. A role play. This is a long bit. This is the kind of role play that I want to do. I'm like, let's pretend we have a podcast.

Guys, we got to go. We got to end this episode now. All right, guys. I'm going to put this. I think it'll be cute for one episode. Let us know what you think. I'm telling you, if you guys dig it, we'll do it. This is not the downside.

What kind of cute would it be? We'd be like, da, da, da. I want to ask Douglas to make a Jewishish sounding thing this is the uh how do you say downside in hebrew i have no idea what do you mean i don't i don't remember how to say down the negative the i mean uh negative is uh there's nikeva and uh nikeva's positive so it's a fuck oh my god i'm forgetting nikeva's positive that's helpful no that's the opposite i tova's gonna look this up i am right now just a little behind the scenes my therapist i guess hasn't sent me a bill in a while so i got a bill last night for

seven hundred dollars and what's funny is because I talk about her in my stand-up, my Comedy Central set. And so it's like, oh, I got this money for the set and it's immediately going to the source. $700. Jesus Christ. Schleely is negative. What is it?

Schleely. Schleely. I think. Hold on. Okay, Schleely. All right, we're learning that. Negative, adverse, unflili. Shlili. I think. Hold on. Okay, shlili. Alright, we're learning that. Negative, adverse, unfavorable. Yeah, shlili. So, would it be this? This is the shlili?

Ze ha shlili! One, two, three! Bokir tov! Downside! Shlili! You're listening to The Downside. With Gianmarco Cerezi.side With Gianmarco Soresi Gianmarco Soresi