The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #33 The Troubled Teen Industry with Misha Osherovich

Episode Date: August 17, 2021

Misha Osherovich shares the downsides of having parents who fled from Russia, not knowing what 'gay' means until you’re 9, getting kicked out of two public high schools in one year, being thrown into the troubled teen industry, going straight from that to musical theater college, and coming out as non-binary during a global pandemic. You can watch full video of this episode HERE Also, after the episode, there is a bonus excerpt from our Patreon-exclusive "The Downside of Celebrity Encounters" (Episode #7) where our friend/theme music composer Douglas Goodhart recounts the traumatic Q&A he did with Billy Joel. Join the Patreon and for $5. a month you can listen to that + all previous patron-exclusive episodes + get early ad-free episodes + two BONUS episodes (audio & video) +++ the good feeling you're helping support my delusions. Follow MISHA OSHEROVICH on instagram & twitter Visit MISHA OSHEROVICH's website Follow GIANMARCO SORESI on twitter, instagram, tiktok, & youtube Check out GIANMARCO SORESI's special 'Shelf Life' on amazon & on spotify Subscribe to GIANMARCO SORESI's mailchimp Follow RUSSELL DANIELS on twitter & instagram E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Fawn Sullivan, Paige Asachika, & Gianmarco Soresi Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, Debbie Downsiders. Do you like that name? Let me know. Or Negative Nancys? Or is Nancy, is that offensive? I don't know. It could be like Negative Nate? Negative Nathaniel? I'm working on it. If you have any ideas, please let me know. This episode, it's with Misha Osherovich. Very good guest. I'm excited for you to hear it. But I want to let you know that at the end, there's going to be a little more, and that's because I added a bonus excerpt from one of our Patreon episodes. It's called The Downside of Celebrity Encounters, and this excerpt, it's my good friend, the composer of all the Downside music, the hilarious Douglas Goodheart, sharing his extremely traumatic encounter with Billy Joel. So check it out. If you like it, you can join the Patreon too. It's patreon.com slash downside for $5 a month. You get two bonus episodes every month, early episodes, ad-free episodes, little goodies throughout the year. And we're doing our first live show soon.

So you get early access to that as well. Again, patreon.com slash downside. And the link is also in the show notes. But now get ready for Misha Osherovich. Their sound is a little bit low in the beginning, but I promise after a minute it fixes. And, you know, just give me a fucking break. Oh, you have notes. Well, because I'm generally a positive person. So that's not that's a lie. I try to be a positive person. So I have notes on how I'm going to contribute to the negativity.

No need to try. You could let it go. Let it let it fly. OK, I'll do my own. No need to be inspiring. No need to be a positive person, so I have notes on how I'm going to contribute to the negativity. Well, no need to try. You can let it go. Let it fly. Okay, I'll do my best. No need to be inspiring. No need to be anything. Good. Also, I'm short, so is that good?

Great. How tall are you? I'm 5'5". Yeah, that's pretty short. Welcome. My resume says I'm 5'6". You lie. Really?

I do lie. I've had, I don't know if I've ever mentioned my, I had a commercial agent, and I'm 6'3 and a half. Okay. And once they told me to say I'm 6'2", because the celebrity, they want you to be shorter than the celebrity. Right. But the audition was at Telsey and they had a big, in the door, they have numbers. So as you walk in, they can look.

See your height? And so I had to walk in like, hey everybody, how you doing? Wait a minute, wait a minute. That sounds like some form of discrimination. Isn't all casting a form of discrimination? Correct. Welcome to the downside. I am here.

Say your last name. Osherovich. Osherovich. Osherovich. Yeah, it's that. Osherovich. I'm here with Misha Osherovich. Wait, I'm supposed to say that later.

This is the downside. I'm in LA still. I'm without my beloved co-host, Russell Daniels, who I love dearly, but is in New York. We're here at Third Wheel Podcast Studios. I'm here with a technician who was part of my last episode, but I forgot to say his name. Mike Classic, who's doing a fantastic job. And I'm here with Misha Osherovich. Yes, good work.

A phenomenal actor, activist. Any other nouns you like to say? I don't know. General human being. I try to be that sometimes too. This is The Downside. One, two, three. Downside.

You're listening to The Downside take back all the nice things I said about my classic that was a real delay on that intro music but uh it's okay we'll fix it in post I uh no please don't fix it Mike he would he's great um you're wearing a mask Mike so I can't tell if you're getting my sense of humor. You're like, fuck this asshole. But that's fine. Misha, we'll get to your shit in a second. Great. This has been quite a trip. My girlfriend is also your manager. Yes, she is. Both my guests have been her clients.

Which means that I can't say anything too bad. But there's nothing bad to say about Tova. It's literally impossible. People do seem to like her. Yeah. Do you? Yeah. Okay. This is our first long trip together. Okay. Long trip. So every... No, things

are good. I think it's just there's so much happening on this trip for me of this is like I'm doing stand-up spots. I'm taking time off-ish, which I don't like. I struggle with. I'm introducing her to my part of my family. We were supposed to stay at my mom's the whole trip.

So we had 10 free days. My mom would have made breakfast. It would have been heavenly. But my mom just moved in with her new boyfriend. He has a cat. And I didn't find that out until a day before we came. I remember this. I heard about this.

And Tova, I just remembered Tova is allergic to half the things in this world. Yes. She and I share that. You do? Oh, I'm an Ashkenazi Jew. I'm allergic to literally everything. You're not kosher though, right? Oh, no.

I've been telling Tova because Tova, she's not kosher for religious reasons, but it's habit at this point. We don't know what she's allergic to. And I said, look, you can either be allergic to things or kosher. You cannot have both. You can't be both. If God made you to not be able to eat certain things, no need to add to the list. Yeah. Unless you're a true masochist, which I arguably am.

I literally, my dietary restrictions are a novel. What are they? Okay, so I am vegan. I am gluten-free restrictions are a novel. What are they? Okay, so I am vegan. I am gluten-free. I try to eat raw whenever I can. Like, it's, I'm the worst person to go to dinner with known to humankind, so. You can have bananas, though. I can have bananas.

Bananas, cilantro. I don't mind cilantro. I don't have an issue with cilantro. Some people have, like, an issue with it. Tova can't. She can't eat it. Is she allergic or she doesn't like it? Well, okay. Let me defend her for a second. Okay.

I don't know what allergic means, technically, but she can't eat it. It tastes horrible to her. It's not like, I can push through this. It destroys the meal. But that sounds like her problem. That doesn't sound like it.

Oh, Tova's going to be pissed. No, but she – so we go to restaurants and it's very tough. I'm sure you know based on what you have to say, but she'll say to the waiter, does this have cilantro? And they're like, no. And she has to reconfirm. Yes. She has to say this is really, really important that it doesn't have cilantro. And they say it doesn't. Then they bring back the meal. Yeah.

It has cilantro. And she'll say it has cilantro. And they'll say and this is where it gets really ugly. They say, no, it doesn't. And she has to go, listen, trust me, it has cilantro. Now, she can't tell them that she's allergic because then she told me the kitchen will go into like emergency cleanly mode. We'll have to siphon off a station of the kitchen meal. We'll take forever. I'll take forever. The hater. But if she doesn't like really go through this rigmarole where she has to, she feels like she's being perceived as a bitch. Sure.

It doesn't help because I say you're being a bitch right now. Right. If she doesn't do that, there's cilantro in it. And then she can't eat it. Uh-huh. And it's very... I have a lot of sympathy for her struggle. Not as much as I do for myself when I have to

tell my mom, hey, just so you know, this is the restrictions for dinner tonight. Oh, and she would make it for Tova. But your restrictions sound vegan and raw! Yeah, look, here's my story about this whole thing. So like, I this was utter vanity. I mean, like, I'm allergic to

dairy like every other Jew on the planet, so like that was always a given. But I decided to go vegan because why the fuck not? I decided to go gluten-free because why the fuck not? Did my skin get better? Maybe. I don't know. But I was religious about it for like a year and a half. And eventually I ended up on a plane back from Thailand to the US. That is a 21 hour flight. I had no food. I was a I was an idiot for not packing anything. And Air China does not have any like remotely even vegetarian options just on hand. You have to request it like two months in advance so they can prepare a not pork for you.

And the only thing I could eat there was bread rolls. So I'm like, okay, Misha, it's fucking bread, gluten, whatever. You've been gluten-free for a while. Just have the bread, eat some food. I'm so sorry to that airport bathroom, that airplane bathroom. Oh my God. It was one of the most horrendous digestive experiences of my life and I will never have gluten again because I'm fully and completely traumatized. 21 hour flight.

How many bathroom visits are we talking? I ended up just kind of staying in there for a while. Oh my god. I just I have I brought my phone and I just yeah. That's brutal. There's nothing worse than an airplane bathroom. And it wasn't like Delta or JetBlue where there's some sort of attempt at making the bathroom remotely livable. This is Air China. Yes, I'm calling you out because your bathrooms are literally just a stall in which you deposit what you're going to deposit. And in my case, it was a very large load. So I didn't.

For me, it's the bowls are so shallow that if my balls touch the bowl, I go, oh, my God. That's what happens. You're also a tall human, though. You have an added struggle. Yes. Your legs need places to go. Sure. It's roomy for you.

You could stay there the whole time. It's probably better than your seat. Actually, you could argue that space-wise. You're right. I am a very small human. So, yes, I did. That was not one of my struggles, but I still did not enjoy being in that bathroom for that long. How did we end up talking about me shitting myself on the airplane?

No, that's, I mean, a 21-hour flight. Listen, I've snacked it up now. I brought an insane $60 worth of dried fruits and veggies. And I've learned. I've learned these airlines. I didn't know that China's airlines were like even worse than America's. Honestly, Air China, the only the only thing worse than being on that flight was actually being stuck in China in a layover that took too long. They I mean, I don't know what who's going to come after me for saying this, but like being stuck in that airport, they don't trust Americans. I had to literally flirt and barter my way into the airport Wi-Fi password because you need your ID. What do you mean barter? What were you trading?

I don't know. I'll give you this roll for just one password. This roll that will destroy your insides. No, I had to. I went to several different like kiosks and people and other tourists with different passports in me were having an easier time getting the airport Wi-Fi password. It was getting to a point when it was literally, I think they're not giving me the airport Wi-Fi password because I am a US citizen. And like other US citizens that were stuck on the same flight were having the same problem. I vote conspiracy. I don't know. They thought you were going to share some propaganda. They thought I was going to, I don't know, spread the gay.

Spread. Ah, spread the gay. Ah, there you go. Where was this, in Hong Kong or somewhere else? It was not Hong Kong. No, it was not Hong Kong. It couldn't have been. But yeah, I did not have the best experience in the Chinese airport. So for those of us, for those of you that are new to this podcast, this is The Downside, where I interview people about things that are negative.

I think people sometimes put on a happy face, and deep down they're sad. And you find out later. You find out in the 50s or 60s when, you know, they kill someone or themselves that people are sad. And I want people to be honest and have a good time about sharing the things that you think about that are negative. So, again, if you're a fan, about sharing the things that you think about that are negative. So again, if you're a fan, check out the Patreon. It's patreon.com slash downside. Again, that's patreon.com slash downside

for bonus episodes, ad-free episodes, and other random shit we put up there. But this is the first time I've met you. It is. We both are from Maryland though. Yes, we are. But your parents came from Russia. My parents came from Russia. And that that's such an integral part of my upbringing. It's hard to

express how few parts of my life are untouched by the fact that my parents are hardcore former Soviet Russians. And why did they leave? They left because they're Jewish. And so they were legitimately discriminated against. Like my parents have kind of a movie story. Like my dad and his father were like well-respected scientists that were like targeted by the Russian government for being successful Jews. What was their science? They are both astrophysicists. My dad now works for NASA. I feel like astrophysicists is like that's the one thing that's like scientists are the one group that could survive people being anti-Semitic

because they're like, well, we need you need. Correct. Correct. They need them. And therefore, ha ha, we capture your talents and we will make you build bombs for the Russian government. So he was that's dad. I'm sorry. But yeah. So mostly his father, but my dad as well, were were being pressured or forced to work for the Russian government for their various, you know, anti-world projects. And so they left. I mean, my dad fled on his own. They literally fled in the first wave of Jews that were allowed to leave Russia. And my mom, same deal from for completely different reasons.

And my mother's father was a really famous lawyer and they targeted him so much that they would like find her on the street and send like KGB agents to try to get her in trouble and get her arrested. So they could use her father's talents to like get out of war crimes? I will actually. So my mother's father was so good at being a lawyer that he was blacklisted from working on any federal prisoner cases because they knew he could get them out. This is crazy. Yeah. Here's the one thing with Russia where I always like try to be skeptical is that like the way that we'll paint America will paint some of these other countries like Russia, like, oh, they're this evil group.

And I'm like, well, America's pretty evil, too. Maybe we're just not as transparent. We don't send agents directly to the daughter, but we do other things. So, but they left. They escaped. They escaped. Were they like putting on, you know, mustaches and glasses or were they able to go? They were able to go, but it was right at that.

And I struggle with the Soviet, you know, the fall of the Soviet Union happened. Right. And a lot of it was like pressure from like the outside world. But like there was this first wave of immigrants that like got these golden ticket tickets to like get out of Russia. Once the Soviet Union started to fall, my parents were both in that very first wave. They fucking fled. You weren't allowed to bring anything with you. No valuables, no anything.

My mom went to Israel and she lived in Israel, dirt poor, for 10 years. And my dad went straight to the U.S. They met in the U.S. Was it in Maryland originally? No, it was in Boulder, Colorado. Were there a lot of Russians going to Boulder, Colorado for some reason? No, I don't know why they ended up there. I think family friend or something.

But they eventually moved to Maryland, and yes, that is where I grew up. So what are the downsides of having parents from born in Russia? I say this with all the love in the world to all cultures, but like I've always I've always said that having Russian parents is very akin to a lot of the stereotypes about having Asian parents, which is, you know, I started two musical instruments at four years old, straight A's no matter what, social life, pretty non-existent. I didn't have access to like normal, like cartoon television until we accidentally got it when I was 12 years old.

Now, let me, as someone who's spoiled, I was spoiled as a kid. Okay. I was raised very lazily. I quit. I quit the swimming team because I said the pool was too cold. And my dad said, but of course, those assholes, those Russians forcing you to swim in a cold pool. I literally swam in Maryland. Yes.

Yes. And I don't think I had a future in it. But I have always looked at parents who push their kids with envy. I say, I wish someone had made me do guitar and really did it. I wish someone had never let me bought video games, had never let me watch some of the shit that I watched on TV. So is there a part of you that's, what instruments were they? Do you still play them?

I still play the piano. And is that nice to have? Yeah, yes, yes, yes. It's nice to play the piano. You picked that nice to have? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's nice to play the piano. You pick like one of the only positives. I did not end up continuing the flute. Not my jam. Look, my work ethic probably does come from the neurotic nature of my upbringing, but also so do all of my shortcomings in terms of like behavioral issues. Like I have three siblings. All of them have become like very kind of successful in their own rights.

Some of them like in the science realms, the computer realms. They all have families. They're very well built up as human beings. I decided to rebel so hard at 15 that I got sent away to like rehabs and boarding schools. So 15 was the age. 15 was the age. 15 was the age. And so you were starting high school. Yes, freshman year.

Freshman year. And how did you rebel? Exactly how? Oh, geez. It's all the things. It's as if my type A personality flipped into like evil type A and said, we are going to make a list of all the things that could possibly piss off parents. We're I mean, I ended up being very queer. So that's, you know, piss

off number one. But I you know, we're gonna try drugs. We're gonna we're gonna run away. I had a really I had a really awfully dope year of like being being like a high school just fuck you to everybody in every institution. I'm going to rebel so hard it's going to make your head spin type freshman. Were you failing too? Yeah. I got kicked out of two. I told you this.

I got kicked out of two public high schools in one year. Right. Yeah. And what were the things that really did it? Not going to class. Failing the classes I was going to. Some of the scarier stuff like being high at school and passing out and shit.

Some of the drugs. All of them? All of them, really? Yeah, legitimately. I ran the gamut and I only say that in such general terms because I mean it when I say that my type A personality quite literally can flip into let's fuck up everything as much as humanly possible.

It's almost like the demon side of Misha. But no, I was really bad at high school and I was kind of intentionally so. I was rebelling really hard. And now later in life, I can recognize, oh, that's because I was rebelling against incredibly controlling parents. They meant it with love. But like, I legitimately decided that I was going to fuck everything up as succinctly as possible. And before they sent you away, how did they try? How did they try to discipline you? would love but like i legitimately decided that i was going to fuck everything up as succinctly as

possible and before they sent you away how did they try how did they try to discipline you they uh you know locked me up in the house i would sneak out they hired therapists i would banter with them until they gave up on me like i it's yeah they were they bad therapists too yeah they weren't brilliant therapists but also like with a smart kid, with a smart, sarcastic kid, you can pretty much out-talk any therapist and anybody at a certain point is going to get frustrated. But... It was tough.

My parents sent me to therapists throughout the years and I just... Now I love therapy. Well, of course we all do now because we want to talk about our problems. Yeah, but at the time, I would just play with action figures that they had. How were you well i think the first phase it was like second grade i started struggling in school uh-huh and they were like he's sad he's depressed and i would just go and my therapist would eat during the sessions which really bothered me i didn't

know how to express that at the time as a second grader as a second grader there's something about like eating smelly foods in the room it all felt uncomfortable and i would play with action figures As a second grader. remotely post way too loudly on social media. Of course, it's always about mental health and like how much I love it and I appreciate it. And it's amazing. Why on earth are we reading into what second graders are doing with their green Power Rangers? That to me screams wrong route, wrong route. Well, the problem with therapy is there's just, there's plenty of bad therapists out there.

Yes. And it is, it's, I always recommend therapy, but I know that a lot of people are doing the online therapy now, which I feel very skeptical of. Just the mass marketness of it. And I just imagine the more things expand and grow and become corporations,

the more things get through the cracks. Yeah. To me, that also just screams algorithm. Like algorithm is, it's one of those evils that it legitimately scares me. Like talk about something that I'm negative about. Like I don't want you to match me with a therapist that based on my online activity is the one that whatever program thinks will serve my mental health.

Yeah. That sounds like a recipe for me getting even more targeted ads and pretty much nothing else. And I think they're incentivized to make sure they don't kill themselves. Right. I'm sure that goes into their permanent record of just like they had two suicides on their watch. So it's just like there. I think there's just a baseline of like, make sure they're not suicidal.

It's just like a checklist of things as opposed to a dynamic artistic relationship. Therapy is very much an art. Yeah, I think. I think so, too. I mean, I mean, also, but you're also getting to something which I found really funny, which is artists going to therapy. It's it's its own strange beast. I ended up in New York for, you know, a couple of years, actually, with a lovely therapist. But he kind of specialized in his clientele were mostly like Broadway folks like that was his deal.

And there's an aspect of it. Not only is it like a little star fuckery and to be clear, he was a wonderful therapist, but like by nature that, that, that specialization is a little star fuckery. Um, but also they learn and pick up on all of the bougie acty terms that we learn in like theater school. And then they use them against us. Like what tactic were you using there? Gosh, like, what were you? And it it's awful. It's awful. It's almost like theater school trauma coming back to hit you in the face from somebody who wasn't even there with you. And, you know, you're the Broadway person. There's like the stand up comedian whisper. And I was like, get I would rather I don't want to go to that thing. There's someone

that like a lot of comics go to them. And I'm like, get out of here. Like they get to hear us badmouth each other in our therapy sessions. That, oh no. See, that to me sounds like something that I'm taking issue with in LA, which is recommendations and exclusivity go far over quality in terms of how you're going to find your place. Yes. Whether it's where you eat, where you go for your health stuff. Like it's, oh, so-and-so went there. They posted about it. It must be really, really good.

No. What if it's awful? I don't like – yeah. Something about the trendiness with – something about mental health to me is a very – I very much want it separate from kind of my social life. I make jokes about therapy and stand-up. Sure. But like I don't – I would never – people that recommend to their friend their therapist, I'm like, oh, you're not telling them enough shit then. No, no, no.

Because I don't want anyone I know to meet my therapist because I've talked insane stuff about them. Yeah. Insane, dark things I've said about them. Yeah. I do think – I remember I think Jeff Goldblum, him and his wife got married by their therapist. They met through their therapist? No, no. He just was so close with his therapist

that when he was, when they got married, he asked his therapist to do the ceremony. Somehow that sounds like a HIPAA violation. I think so too. And then the problem is like,

one thing I like about my therapist, I met her through, originally through a program. She was getting some kind of degree. So I pay not a lot. And it's increased over the years, but it still is not to a point where if she lost me as a client, I think financially it probably would be beneficial to her.

Oh, geez. And there's something about that where I'm like, I know she's not, she doesn't need to like keep me around. She doesn't need to tell me stuff that, you know, she doesn't want to piss me off. If Jeff Goldblum's your client, I'm sure he's paying a grand a session. And there's got to be a feeling where Jeff's like, well, I disagree with you. And they're like, you're right. I was stupid.

Silly me. I don't know. This is bizarre. I can't say that I was expecting to talk about mental health, period, the end today. But, like, I completely do agree with your point of view, which is that mental health should, I think, be separate from trendiness. But we are also in this space where it is incredibly trendy. It's on social media. People are using buzzwords about mental health.

And that is also in its own way exciting because, yay, people are talking about it. But, I mean, it's the dangers of social media, period, the end. That's not news to anybody. Yeah. There's a lot of joking about therapy where, listen, I'm all for jokes. Right. Always. But sometimes they talk about the therapist

in a way where I'm like, are you using this thing? Or are you like not sharing certain things with your therapist? Or people will be on social media, they'll be like, I've been in therapy for 10 sessions and I don't feel any better.

Is this normal? And it's just the conversations are so, are so shallow on social media in general. Well, I mean, that's because 15 second attention spans. That's why I don't know. It's also one of those things. It can lead to like those monster things like cancel culture. Right. Like that was literally talk about notes. I tried to prepare as much as I could. And like cancel culture is one of those things that like gets me. And it's a it's a complicated issue. one of those things that like gets me and it's a it's a complicated issue. But I think that cancel culture is exactly the same thing as what you're talking about. It's reactivity. 15 second attention

span, 10 sessions of therapy didn't work for me. I'm going to move on. Why we can't move that quickly through issues that have a much deeper well to deal with. And I do think maybe who knows, I'll get canceled for saying this, but I do think that cancel culture is one of those things as well where like the reactivity might not actually be serving the purpose. People moving that quickly.

If you get canceled, that means this episode got a lot of listens. Fair enough. Great. So, okay. So at 15, you're rebelling.

Yes. And your parents send you to, is this Island View? This is Island View. Oh no, they've done research.belling. Yes. And your parents send you to, is this Island View? This is Island View. Oh no, they've done research of course. Okay, okay. And how did you, how did this come up? Did your parents say like, if you miss one more class, we're warning you. So in the interest

of people continuing to listen, this is one of those things where it got really dark for a second. Like I went to hospitals, I went to psych wards, I had a serious drug problem. I for a second. Like I went to hospitals, I went to psych wards. I had a serious drug problem. I'm sober now. And I went to a lot of like mental health care within the realm of where I was living. So I had my whole, you know, girl interrupted moment

full on in the Maryland DC area in those hospitals. Good hospital. That's a good place to have it. Better Maryland DC than, I don't know, Alabama. I just imagine you might get. You know, you know, the funny thing is I went to some nice hospitals, but I was in there for a combination of like body image and eating disorder issues and then some drug issues. And what may ask what eating disorders? Sure.

So like I was diagnosed as I originally was incredibly anorexic. Diagnosed as I originally was incredibly anorexic. And as many eating disorders go, I actually ended up verging into other ones, which is part of the problem with eating disorder treatment. You get lumped in with a bunch of other people in this in a facility that have various eating disorders and various addictions and you learn from them. And I learned like skills and tactics. Yeah, it is a real phenomenon. And I found it fascinating even back then. tactics. Yeah. Yeah. It is a real phenomenon. And I found it fascinating even back then. But as you know, as an adult now, I'm like, wow, that's really funny that my issues were exacerbated by being in close proximity to other people. And are these learning like I I knew

someone who had had pretty severe bulimia. My mom was bulimic before I was born. And I hear stories about it's the one thing my parents are divorced and it was they do not like each other. But the one thing my mom has always credited my dad with was like he helped her get through that. Get through that. Which is it's just cool because it's that's the only nice thing she's ever said about him. But I knew someone who's bulimic and, you know, I heard things about like being able to throw up without using anything. Yeah. Timing the throwing up to someone else flushing a toilet,

just shit that, so complex that I had never thought about. In my mind, you know, it's very, it's a basic understanding of you eat the meal and then you go in the bathroom. Right. It is a complex web of planning and thinking and it takes over your life.

This is how I like to describe it to people that have like kind of limited to no understanding. It is exactly like an addiction, an eating disorder, in that it's always with you. It's always buzzing in the back of your head. And I said this to a therapist once and it stuck with me and now I use it as imagery. You know, those little massagers like at CVS, they're kind of cheap. They look a little like plastic squids. Yes, yes. And they vibrate. You can put them anywhere. Imagine one of those strapped to like the back of your head, like duct tape around your jaw and set on like medium. So it's always buzzing in the back of your head. But that buzz is a voice. It's a literal voice telling you, don't eat that. Throw that up. Exercise here. You have enough time to do this now secret secret secret keep keep keep

and it's a separate voice it's separate from you and before you go through the therapy and you learn that that voice is in fact an addiction and an issue and you have to learn to like depart from it it feels like your best friend it is it's somebody that's there when you're lonely it's somebody that tells you if you just skip this meal or get rid of that meal, then you'll be beautiful. Don't you want that? It is the devil on your shoulder and it stays with you and it only grows closer to you as you quite frankly succumb to the eating disorder. And I really went down that road for a while. And it was anorexia and then did it evolve to the other ones?

It did. You know, I run the gamut and I am at this point one of those people that if diagnosed, it would be, what is it, NOS, not otherwise specified eating disorders. I see. Because I really did run the gamut. And I also, I mean, I want to be very clear to our listeners, like I don't consider myself recovered. I take, and this is where I fall outside of the norm with the AA and the NA folks and all of that. I'm not recovered. I consider myself in active recovery because every single day I have to check in with that voice. And if it's starting to get a little loud and telling me to do things and telling me things about my body that I know now are not true, then I have to actively say, hey, shut the fuck up. I'm going to go do my life and be positive about it and all that shit. Yeah.

I feel like it would be tough to be in this industry. I'm doing something on camera next week, hopefully. And I'm absolutely in my head. I'm going like, all right, you know, let's run a little harder. Let's push a little harder at these workouts. And it just feels like the worst industry. Yeah. I'm sure the entertainment industry is rife with eating disorders,

many undiagnosed. I remember seeing a lot in college. I knew a couple of people where they'd be on the elliptical for three hours. Oh, yeah. Oh, I went to musical theater school too. I know these people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, if you could go back at this phase where you're very rebellious, what do you think you would have said if you're like one minute? To my younger self? To your younger self.

Ooh, good question. What do you need to hear? Okay, okay. What immediately comes to mind is it's not worth it. And that's namely because of like the physical and mental damage I did to my body. But I think if we're going to unpack that, I would say something along the lines of like, this is not the way what you're looking for, that validation, that love, that being seen, especially as a queer person and as a gender queer person that wasn't allowed to be that growing up. I just I we didn't say the word gay in my household. Like I didn't learn it until later in life because my parents kept it out of the vocabulary. I had to ask somebody what it meant at an age that I'm embarrassed to say what age that was. What age was it? It was nine. Nine. It was nine. I and so it was one of those things where I would say to myself something that I'm

like working on with my meditation right now which is it you are enough and it comes from in you it will not come from the meal that you skip it will not come from the the high that you're chasing it will not come from the crazy sex that you're trying to have at an age that you are far too young to be having that sex at it's it's you that that thing that love that validation that you're looking for, it has to come from in you. And I was seeking it out externally. I was trying to outsource it like nobody's business. So they sent you to this place. Do you think part of their goal was

we'll get the gay part out of here, too? Unfortunately, I think and here's where there's two parts to this. The answer to your question is probably yes. But that comes from my parents having a very singular understanding growing up in Soviet Russia about what gayness and queerness is. It's not just wrong. It's not just illegal, which they grew up with it this Bible. We consider it the religious thing here in America. But in Russia, the way that my parents described it to me when they found out was that it was just it was essentially a death sentence. Whether it would be the awful stereotype that gays would get some kind of disease, which was brought up when my parents found out that I was queer, or that your lifestyle would become this living on the streets, like awful homeless depiction of what the worst kind of rhetoric says about what degenerates live. Unfortunately, that is what my parents grew up with. And so that was what was in their stores when they reacted to me being queer. And we won't get into the pretty horrendous coming

out story. I'm not going to talk about it. But what I will credit my parents with, they sent me away. I went through this pretty horrendous thing called the troubled teen industry. It's a whole thing. Now, do they call it that? Is it known as that or is that the kind of moniker to identify what this is? It is the now socially conscious way to talk about the thing that I went through, which is the troubled teen industry. Yes. And it's an incredibly corrupt industry. They don't – their goal is not really to treat the kids. It is, in fact, to kind of break them down.

So the first one you went to, it's this one called Island View. It is. This is in Utah. Yes. So you go – and how did you go there? Did they give you a plane ticket? No. Two big men came in the middle of the night with, in my case, zip ties.

Sometimes it's handcuffs. No way. Yeah. Did you see them first and thought like, oh, my parents finally get it. They'd understand I want two big burly men. Oh, my God. What a joke. What a joke.

No. I actually, I have such an issue with like big muscly WeHo gays now that that's just incredibly funny to me. I've never heard the term WeHo gays, but now I always know like little glimpses into queer culture. You're a New York human, right? Yes. So think like Hell's Kitchen gays, same thing. Okay, okay. I do know that.

The big muscle, usually white guys that make being in space is incredibly difficult. So they come into your room, they wake you up. And do you have any idea what's going on? No. That's the point. Your mom and dad are – do you scream mom, dad? So I was actually picked up from the psych ward. So I didn't even have them around. The two men came during my stay at one of the psych wards.

Okay. Okay. So they pick you – you said they had zip ties? Yes. So they – and they – what are you thinking when this happens? Do you think you're about to die? I mean, you know what's funny is I have an interesting experience because I went from a hospital to the hands of these men. And so most kids are taken from home when they are – when they're taken to these facilities. I imagine that's even more traumatic

because they think they're being kidnapped. And I don't I was at a point in my treatment where I pretty quickly put together at 3 a.m. in the morning, my tired brain. OK, this has to be some new place that I'm going to some new. I just figure it at this point, if they got through the multiple hospital doors and the staff were watching very calmly as all this happened, it must obviously be something that checks out. But no, they they came and took me in the middle of the night. They they kind of had me pretty much arm in arm throughout the entire flight and ride all the way. Do you go through security together? Yeah, they we go to the we go to the bathroom together.

You know, I tried to run away. You know how they grab you in the middle of the airport. Yeah. If you saw someone running in the airport now, I feel like you'd be you'd be like, hey, this person was just dragged away. The way here not. And this is in the interest of like making this story interesting and not exhaustive. Every bit of the troubled teen industry that you think is ridiculous or sounds like a movie or sounds like it wouldn't happen, that's because that is actually the reality of this place. I struggle. I am at current like trying to like be an activist about this kind of stuff.

Like I went to a protest that Paris Hilton hosted because she and I actually went to sister schools in Utah. Sister troubled industry teen schools. There's a network of schools, babe. There's a whole network. And every time somebody from the outside tries to start to ask questions, I'm always happy to answer them. But the end answer of all of them is always yes. It is as ridiculous and scary as you think it is.

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And now we're back. I'm so fascinated by this Trouble Teenage. So this was, again, this was called Island View. When you went there, did you know how long you were going to be there? I had no idea. No. Okay. And so tell me, what's the curriculum?

Oh, God. The curriculum, it's at a place like Island View, the idea is that it's therapy first, schooling second. Do they have classes that you can go to that sort of resemble an education? Yes. Are they accredited? That's a wonderful question. And to this day, that is still being investigated.

That is not my purview when it comes to how well they are academically accredited. What kind of classes were you taking? Were you also taking algebra? I vaguely, and this is where like trauma really kicks in. Like I have entire weeks of blackout from being in that scary of a place. And it is hilarious to me because I consider myself an incredibly strong person. Like I have a lot of grit to me. And over the pandemic, actually, is when I really started to like think about my time

because I've been moving, going to school and working ever since I left these facilities. And that's probably intentional, right? Because we all run away from our problems. It's how it works. And I ended up sitting with myself, finally, for the first time, Googling the places that I went to, because we were all sitting at home during the beginning of the pandemic. And some memories started to legit flood back. And I kind of went to myself, holy fucking shit, Misha, this is like textbook trauma you decided to forget months of your life your brain did that for you as a mercy yeah it was it was wild like it's and i

i really do try to find like the lightness and the humor in it because who thinks in their life that they're going to have one of those movie moments of forgetting an entire section of their childhood but hey i um that that me. And that was something that I discovered over the pandemic. So I don't know. God bless the pandemic in that sense. Was there. This is a strange question. Was there anything, especially for this podcast, was there anything enjoyable about the people you met that you run into any people where you like relate, you like understood them that you got to a point where your families, I mean, you all have, it's like when you meet someone with a shared trauma, there's a certain

kind of like- Camaraderie. Yeah. I, okay, let me say this. In psych ward land, that happened a bit more readily, like people that like had some more psychological issues and we were all there in the hospital together, there was a camaraderie. In places like Islandie in in places like Island View and in places inside the troubled teen industry in general. It becomes more of you

become a team of survivors because you are all in this Lord of the Flies. How the fuck did we get here? This has to be a movie type place. So do I have friends from that time? Not particularly. Do I stay in touch with those folks? Again, not particularly. But during that time, none of that really mattered. Your history didn't matter. Who you were before that didn't matter. It mattered about, quite frankly, staying afloat. And unfortunately, the reality of this industry is also staying alive because kids do die inside these facilities. And it is something that has been reported on. And that's not just me saying it. Physical abuse, suicide, mix.

Mix. Mix. Yeah. So you left there. And did you go to another one in Connecticut? I did. And we don't talk about it. Got it.

Mm hmm. And then you finished that. I did. And how are you feeling about your parents during all this? We didn't talk. I felt betrayed. I felt like they had sent their child away to die or worse. I completely cut off communication with them.

I even kind of refused like family therapy, phone calls and stuff like that. How old were you at this time're you're out of that programs? When I was out of the programs, I was just entering senior year. So 17. And you're going back to the high school you were at before. OK, I ended up because my high school transcript was a mess. And there was there was it was this weird five or six like institution deep with some like psych wards in it, like pass fail. Yes,

they took this class. Who knows if they got a grade in it? Like it's hilarious. It really is like a map of Gibraltar. But I ended up with my parents realizing to an extent that these troubled teen industry schools were not the way. And we kind of came to a very quick understanding like, okay, Misha cannot stay in these facilities any longer. So we devised a plan. We said, okay, where are we going to go to get Misha a high school diploma? And I had no grades to speak of. And as a kid, like I'm talking boy, you know, now non-binary, but boy soprano, I sang.

So my mom and I said, okay, are there schools that are like art schools that will take you based on an audition and won't care that much about your transcript? Lo and behold, those schools do exist. And I ended up going to a boarding school for the arts for my senior year. That's nice.

I always wanted to go to a boarding school for the arts. Did you now? I did. My parents were like, they didn't take it seriously. Okay. My high school was. Did you know I did my parents were like they didn't Take it seriously. Okay. I'm a high school. They didn't take your art seriously They didn't take were like I went to like a good high school It was a good private high school

And so I came back from one summer camp and I was like I want to go to I want to go to interlocking Okay, I think and they're like Okay, no, yeah, I was just I was I wasn't pushy enough to do it, but you were a boy boy soprano Is this post pupuberty? You could still sing those notes? No, no, no. This was like, this was like as a child, like my parents, in addition to the piano and the flute, they fostered my singing, which I was actually like a pretty good like boy soprano. Like I had like, I was in choir.

Like I, the talent quickly left me when, you know, puberty happened. But no, yeah, that was like part of my life. quickly left me when, you know, puberty happened. But no, yeah, that was like part of my life. And we like, I resurrected freaking where is love from Oliver to sing. How does that one go? Fuck you. No, I forget how that one goes.

No, I have pity on your listeners. I don't trust my singing voice for shit anymore. Really? You lost the skill? You know, the thing is I can sing and, you know, of course I do it for auditions. And of course, but I... You're going to get cast in Oliver and you're going to have to sing the song again. You could get it from this.

Some person hears it and goes like, oh, we got to... That sounds like comedian enthusiasm. No, I shan't be singing for you because I like you. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. And well, that's great. So you were able with these arts and suddenly when you found the arts, did you did you were you sober at this point? I was I was verging toward I was learning that substances were not my jam and my that they weren't going to work for me. And my of course, I still like was kind of like experimenting with substances all the way through, you know, a little bit in college and this and that. But I ended up like it was a very kind of slow journey to, oh, I can't do the hard party stuff.

Oh, I guess drinking is kind of a problem, too. Oh, I guess I can't really smoke weed. Huh. My mental health sits best when I'm sober. Got it. OK. It was kind of like it was a progression. Yeah.

But but yeah, no, I I ended up I mean, senior year at these boarding schools for the arts are like BFA audition prep. So I was thrown into it. I had no idea what BFA was. I never touch stepped before. Like I were you emotionally crushing it, though? Like I feel like with these experiences. Sure. I mean, with trauma comes access to certain colors and flavors. And I just could imagine you crushing a monologue compared to some kid like me who is thinking about my parents divorce and trying to feel things like I thought about fucking yesterday. How about that? You know what? I will go ahead and say probably yes.

But what I more look to is, look, you come from musical theater and now I can officially say that I do, too. You know how bitchy those people are. You know how awful and cutting those people can be. And I certainly got my taste of it both in the BFA audition circuit and at the boarding school that I went to. And my skin was thick as motherfucking can be. You couldn't touch me. I came from fucking rehab prison-esque type environments in the desert, bitches.

What are you going to tell me that I can't sing high enough? That I'm not tall enough? I don't care. I legitimately don't care. Go do your thing. And so for that, I guess I can credit the troubled teen industry because I am impervious to musical theater bitchiness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And now I want to ask, before we get to our last two segments, during the pandemic, the term came out as non-binary. I did. Yes, I came out as non-binary. Came out as non-binary. And I've read things and inspiring. But I want to know, because this is the podcast called the downside

yeah what have been the downsides of of coming out as non-binary I'm sure there's like new struggles or new things you have to deal with um you know it it's it it run there's like a there's like kind of a smorgasbord of them um the funny thing is you know your girlfriend my manager has been one of the biggest blessings and, my manager has been one of the biggest blessings and like moving management has been one of my biggest blessings because I ended up with a management that understood my queerness and not to get too into it, but like that was something that was a struggle for me when I first kind of came out was how do I present myself to the people that are trying to get me jobs? It's so interesting. I mean, dating a manager, I see so much about that they try to take their client and they

have to present their client in some kind of package in a way where, you know, I'm sure that their cast, I mean, a lot of casting calls are still they want a man or a woman. That's how the breakdown is. And like a manager, an agent has to be creative or assertive in a way to be like, hey, I know you saw it as this. Or like my client can do this if you want that. And it takes a kind of, A, you got to like, you got to believe, you got to like want to do it. You got to be like, oh, I'm going to take a client that doesn't fit the obvious mold. And then you have to have the creative juices to be like also be able to sell it. and sexually fluid as well, which is a whole other thing.

And it's one of those things where you have to have not only the creative juices to figure out how a person that falls outside of the binary will play a role and play it well, but also be willing to learn and unlearn. I say this about queer people all the time. There's unfortunately in the queer community still a lot of infighting and still a lot of internalized hate and internalized homophobia, internalized queer phobia. The queer community is not perfect.

And I think one of the reasons for that is that we are all still learning too. I'm still learning about pronouns and stuff when it comes to other people. I'm still learning about what transness and what being post-binary and outside of the binary and non-binary means. And I think one of the big downsides

to coming out as non-binary is all of a sudden, in many more situations than I used to have to, I have to justify my existence. Like, oh no, sorry, I'm not an Instagram trend. I am in fact a person that does not feel at home as either man or woman. And my mental health pretty much hinges on that being valid. So when somebody does something as

simple as misgendering me, which by the way, it's as simple as, oh, I'm so sorry, what are your pronouns? Or when it gets a little bit more insidious, like not believing me or saying that my non-binariness isn't real or it's a fad or it's a generational thing. That to me is probably one of the biggest overarching downsides is that all of a sudden my existence is kind of up for grabs when it comes to debatability. I wasn't born real to a lot of people. I was created and to some people created in a way that they don't believe. So that would be like the big downside. How do you feel? I think there are some celebrities where like sometimes a celebrity

will come out as non-binary. And I think with all celebrity, yeah. There's people can feel skepticism with celebrity because celebrities have exploited everything for everything in the history of time. Yes. And so do you ever – I say my philosophy is just like benefit of the doubt.

With certain things, you just give benefit of the doubt. Yes. There are certain people that do certain things that I go, this feels like a PR move. Sure, of course. This happened to time. I mean one of the most classic was, of course, Kevin Spacey's coming out the day of the accusations. There was a feeling of like a and he really thought it might work. He really did. No one was. There was a couple of people replying to that tweet being like, wow, good for you.

But it must be complicated when you especially you're in L.A. Sure. Where people exploit things all the time and it's a sincere thing. And as you say, it's important to your mental health to be, do you ever, do you ever see something and go like, ah, I don't. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So this industry is fraught. Is that the word fraught? Like with that kind of issue where is it PR or is it real? First of all, it's probably both most of the time. And I'll be the first person to say that I'm I consider myself so incredibly lucky that my identity and being able to being non-binary

does things like gives me the freedom to believe that I deserve to get my nails done and I get to have long hair, which is stupid. That's stupid in that everybody deserves those things. But my specifically femininity was kind of unleashed by giving myself permission to realize, oh, I am outside of the binary and that makes me so happy. Has it also unlocked some of the most truthful, amazing auditions and roles and writing that I've ever seen in my career? Yes. But that's because I'm being truthful to me. So that's that weird intersection of sometimes, yes, there are celebrities that do things. And quite frankly, I do think they are PR moves. But it's you also I do think if we're going to be positive on the downside, it's that sometimes people acknowledging their truth is one of the best PR moves they can possibly fucking make. I understand. I also will say, well, I went through a goth phase and I loved wearing black nail polish so much. It's very liberating.

I'm a big nail polish is one of those things that I'm like, I do enjoy this. My good friend Rob, he used to do, and he's gay, and he would do one nail. One nail all the time. I like that too. I have a lot of stand-up comedian friends. I get a lot of shit for it, and I would have to be ready for that battle.

Sure. But I love nail polish. Right. I just love nails. But look, it's one of those things where it's simple, and it's's aesthetic and you can call it vain. You can call it surface. You can call it whatever you want. But if it validates my existence, bitch, I'm going to call it very important. My nail polish is very important to my mental health. And I will say that till the day I die, probably being buried in very glamorous nail polish. Yes. Yeah. You know, Tova and I, she's gotten me to get a couple of pedicures. I don't know if they would ever do one nail.

If they give me a discount, one 10th of a, I sincerely doubt that they would. I feel like they might do it for free. If she was there, I said, Hey, can you,

or I'd like slip my hand under her hand and maybe they'd be like, Oh, she's this poor woman. That's six fingers. Do they charge more for people with, with more nails? That sounds like I, I can't properly answer that for you.

And it sounds like something that you'll investigate and I'll forget about it. If I only had three fingers, like if something happened, I lost two fingers, I would hope they would give me a discount. Well, then you would then it would just then I would just hope they would have some kind of compassion for differently abled people and say, OK, you have three fingers. Let's give them a discount on their manicure. I think that's the least they could do for having lost those two fingers. All right. Well, I think it's time to they could do for having lost those two fingers. All right. Well, I think it's time

to go to our next segment. This has got to stop. This has got to stop. This has got to stop. You seem like someone who would read the email. You read the email? I did read the email.

You did read the email. I'm trying to get better at guessing who does and who would not. And who just agrees and shows up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have a

this has got to stop? I do, and I brought it up earlier, but I think I want to come back to it. Let's do it. I think that cancel culture as it exists now has to be, for lack of a better word, canceled. Okay. So now let me be my skeptical comedian self. Okay.

I think cancel culture has come to mean so many different things. It's hard to pin down what it is. many different things. It's hard to pin down what it is. I think there's a certain flavor of cancel culture on Twitter where the Twitter algorithm allows things to exponentially grow and experience kind of shame that can reach a level of of career consequence. People getting fired. Yes. As a comedian, I certainly have jokes out there, sketches that I'm sure in the wrong light at the wrong time of history could get me in trouble. Yes. Some I think I deserve. I totally would say this. I don't know. I wish I could delete this from the world. I don't agree with this anymore. Right. Right. Right. It was funny at the time. But I also think that like so many, especially Republicans of late, have exploited this term cancel culture, even Democrats, too.

It's everyone now to be like, oh, you think that something I did was wrong. Well, cancel culture has gone too far. So what exactly do you mean when you say it? What I mean is something similar to what you're talking about with the algorithm and the Instagram and the Twitter making one person's mistake. And for the sake of this conversation, let's leave alone the magnitude of the mistake, because I hope it's understood that if you make a big enough mistake that dehumanizes some group or individual person and that mistake warrants being taken out of the seat of the public eye. Fuck yeah. Let's do that.

But leave alone that pretty much encoded example of this is why cancel culture started, that kind of behavior. I am a person that has made so many mistakes. You've heard about half of them just now. And if I was judged on, and I hate to say this, but like if I was judged on not even my worst moment, but my moments where my mental health was in jeopardy and I was making decisions that I now later really do regret. If I was judged on that now, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you being in a place where like my career and my life and my happiness are kind of on the upswing. I worry that cancel culture, as many things do on social media, is being reduced to that thing, that one button that can happen, that many people can press at once, that can stop somebody's career, their life, their livelihood. And I don't have sympathy or pity for the people that did things that are horrendous, but I do have sympathy and pity for

people that made a mistake. So Chrissy Teigen, we forgive you and we want to have you back. Who is there anyone in your mind that you that you think like they really got the short end of the stick here? You know, I actually cannot think of a smart enough example. And maybe that speaks to like the muddiness of cancel culture. I think like Chrissy Teigen is the one where she wrote this post about being part of cancel culture. And I was like, first of all, you're not. You're like, you had three production meetings today. You told a 16 year old to kill themselves many times.

Maybe, maybe just chill. Just chill for a little because she will be fine. Yeah. For me, it's just there's there's disproportionalness it's and again like i think the problem with online stuff is like i certainly i know some people with more problematic views sometimes but they're like good people in the sense that i've seen them go out of their way to really help a homeless person find shelter and there's a certain thing of like you, my nihilistic sense.

I'm like, everyone's bad. Of course. You just happen to like, you feel good because you saw the most clear cut example of someone doing something bad that you could punish in the only power you have on this app. Yes. Look, I think at the end of the day, it boils down to this. People have good moments. People have bad moments. But you and I are in an industry where your seat in the public eye is kind of a jewel to be frankly given them the opportunity to explain themselves.

That is what scares me most about cancel culture because we have seen this since the beginning of time. We've had gladiators. We've had, that's the best example I can think of, gladiator culture where people gather in one big space. Twitter is it now, but back then it was a big arena to watch two human beings tear each other apart.

It's in our nature. It's in our nature. It's in our gut. We love it. We're those same. We have not evolved past the DNA of what those people are. Absolutely not. Our brains were the same. Absolutely not.

And that's why something like Black Mirror hits so hard because that's just modern day gladiator culture. We love to see the worst possible outcome. It ignites something in us. It tickles something in us. And that being combined with the power of cancel culture scares me deeply. I'm not a big sports guy, but there is sometimes other than the NFL, which I'm like, these these guys are ruining their brains and

suffering. But sometimes I'm like, well, sports are good in that they are gladiator sports with less... With more parameters. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I hear you. I think... I have a second. I want to do... I never get to do this. Gotta stop sometimes because my co-host, he talks and talks and talks. Sure. I hate you, Russell. I wonder what that's like. I... One thing

I think that's gotta stop. I hate... This is very small. On all these emails where, like, if I'm not signing up for flight insurance on my flight, it'll be like, do you want to sign up for flight insurance? Yes. Or no, I'm a big fucking dumb dumb and I'm risking my life here

and I'm going to regret this someday. And I'm like, how dare you put those words in my mouth? My least favorite is, do you want to sign up for the mailing list for the cycling 305 class? Or maybe later? No, I you want to sign up for the mailing list for the cycling 305 class or maybe later? No, I never want to do it. Well, I think also there's an element of shame, right?

They're shaming you. And I think the fitness one is what really gets me. Like, do you want to sign up for this spin cycle class that's happening in a week in your area? It's our inaugural class. So many people will be there to celebrate their bodies. Or do you just hate yourself? And I'm like, maybe. Yeah.

I get a lot of, we miss you. We miss you at cycling at Harlem Cycle. Really? Do you? Call me. Call me. Let's talk about my fucking day. And if you can talk to me for 20 minutes,

then yeah, I'll come. I'll come in. But I mean, isn't that how all marketing works? They shame you into buying their shit. That's just it. Well, then now we go into our final nice segment. Please hit it. Mike.

You better count your blessing. You better count your blessing. We've gone. We went to some dark places. I feel good about this episode. So now we can be thankful for one thing. Oh, my God. You know what?

I'll just throw it. I do a lot. I do a lot to Tova. Sometimes I feel like this segment was really like a apologize for being a bad boyfriend segment where I get to say something nice about Tova. Sure. I think she likes it. So, well, first let me say, I will say One Blessing third wheel podcast studio.

This is my first time doing a podcast outside of my own home studio. Sure. It's good air. I know you have lighting. I have to worry about so much less things.

It really is heaven. Sure. And my classic, other than one sound cue, did a fantastic job. The last two sessions, I hope I'm back here I forgive you don't worry and of course Randy Valerio

the comedian who who set me up with with Third Wheel Podcast Studio and I'm doing his show it'll be way past when you hear this but Randy Valerio good guy follow him my blessing I guess is like I think Tova has has when you see someone with their family I think what's very hard

when you you meet your partner's family is I'm a certain it's a colliding of worlds. I'm a certain kind of person with my family. And it is not my most polished version. It is a version that feels kind of mad at them for certain parts of my childhood. They'll talk willy nilly about stories like, oh, Jamarco did this thing. And there's an urge to be like, yeah, well, you know why the fuck I did that thing? Let me tell you why I did that thing, mom. And you can't because her new boyfriend's there.

Your new girlfriend's there. And I think Tova has been delightful with my family. She seems like an incredibly adaptable human being. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it can be difficult because to her, it's a meaningful thing to meet the family. To me, it's almost like,

it's like, here we go, here we go. It's not something to be like, I'm going to introduce you to my mother. You're not getting a kick out of it. Yeah. I introduce my partners to my family when it's almost over. I'm like, all right.

Well, here, once you meet my family, you'll feel a little better about the end of us. The end of it. But this is not the case, Tova, when you hear this. I hope. This is coming out in a couple weeks. Sure. I always know, like, God, you know, when she breaks up with me. Anything can happen.

I'll have, like, three episodes where I continue to talk about our relationship. Right, just ranting. In the canon. So thank you, Tova, for being a lovely partner to introduce to my family. Do you have a blessing? Yes, I mean, I do. Look, I think it goes back to one of the many things we talked about today, which is I'm very grateful and I continue to be that being a queer individual and being at this point as unapologetically queer and non-binary as I

possibly can be has brought me some of the most amazing experiences in my life. It's brought me friends and mentors that I quite frankly wouldn't have met if I didn't dive so deep into the queer community. It's certainly brought me validation in that a queer person can have just as kind of colorful, storied, and successful of a career as a cis or within the binary person. But I think also it's just I wake up on a morning like this when I woke up late and I throw my hair back into a wet ass ponytail and I barely do any makeup and it it I don't feel the need to put as much armor on when I go out into the world because I know for myself that my gender is not up for discussion. It's mine and I own it. So I'm grateful for honestly, just the generation that I live in, that being a non-binary individual was so accessible to me when I came to it. That's what I'm grateful for. That's that being a non-binary individual was so accessible to me when I came to

it. That's what I'm grateful for. That's a beautiful blessing. Thanks. And I guess I'll end by saying, you know, whether you wear nail polish or you don't, you're going to be buried in something. And even if you have nail polish on, the worms are going to eat it off and it's going to be really fucking, you won't even be there to know that it's happening. And all your loved ones will die someday. Right. This is the downside. One, two, three.

Downside. Downside. Downside. Okay, but I was surprised by somebody. I'm going to launch it right in. Because I was 13, and I was in love with Billy Joel. Just like a good Long Island boy, just totally in love with Billy Joel. And my friend's dad got tickets to this question and answer period

at the local college in Stony Brook University. He was going to sit and answer questions and play piano. It was just going to be him. Not really a concert, more of like a forum or whatever. Were you playing music at this point? Yeah, a little bit, but it's not like I wanted to do it for a thing. But I was certainly singing and loving his music and it was a big part of our family.

We'd gather around in the car singing his music and stuff. Everybody knew the lyrics. So I went with my good friend Dan Marcus. Shout out to Dan Marcus. Good boy. And we sit in this huge, huge stadium and they've got microphones.

Anybody who he picks, somebody comes with a microphone, and they ask a question. And he's playing his favorite songs, and he's doing great. And I want to talk to him. I want to talk to him so bad. And every time he says next question, my hand shoots up. It's getting towards the end, and he's like, last question. My hand shoots up. He's getting towards the end and he's like, last question. My hand shoots up. He's like, kid in the back, it's me.

So as the microphones are coming towards me, I realize I don't really have a question. I don't have a question. It just occurs to me that what I'm about to say, it's not a question. And this was a college forum. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a little boy. little boy yeah i'm a little boy and everyone's asking real questions and so

the microphones are moving towards me and i grab this microphone i'm like hi billy joel um and it's not on the microphone's not working sure sure this huge thing and he's like i can't hear you and i'm like the microphone's not working and he's like what and so i scream scream the microphones and then boom the microphones turn on and now i'm screaming over this this huge stadium and he goes oh bill goes whoa so loud it's terrible and my voice even higher than it was. And so I say something to the effect of this. Billy Joel, I love you. One of my favorite memories of your music

is singing the song My Life in the back of the car with my sister. So I was wondering, is that song based on your life? Or is it based on stories you heard? Okay. Okay. So, and he says, and he says, well, the song's called My Life. What a stupid question. Oh!

He says, what a stupid question. What a stupid question. To a little boy. Yeah, yeah. Like, that's, like, kind of just like, who is this? Who is this kid? Oh, dude. Okay, and who, I just want to, I mean, I guess it makes sense where it's like, if you sold a Spice, because you're like, is Spice Up Your Life about spicing up your life?

Wait, but to be fair to him, he was kind of jostling everybody about the weak questions, the whole thing. Okay. So he was like, people were asking him questions and he'd be like, come on. Like, what kind of question is that? You know, like he was doing that. That's a lot of pressure to pick a little boy for the last question. No, they went, he wouldn't let it be the last question. He was like, give me another one.

He's like, we need another one. We can't end it like that. Do you remember, did you feel like a rush of humiliation? Oh my God, yes, absolutely. You were with who? I was with Dan Marcus and we never spoke about it

for 10 plus years. I came back from college, I came back from college, and I was like, hey man, do you remember? And he was like, the time that Billy Joel snubbed me? We just, he was like, I thought we'd never speak of this. But, and can I just say, like, not everybody writes things that, he could call it my life, and still it would've been other.

I don't think it's the worst question in the world. It's pretty high up there though. No, Anthony who works in the grocery store, that just rhymes. It's Billy Joel's life. It's my life as Billy Joel. Mr. Frank Sinatra, the song did it your way. You did it my way. Did you live your life your way or was it based on how you did your life or was it based on?

I don't know i i see yeah do you think he could see that you were a little boy and he's a jackass or do you think he thought maybe this is a old lady with a high voice a dumb college kid i don't know i don't know and i like i'm uh i'm an optimist so i think i want to give him the benefit of the doubt um and i think that he he had no idea how much that really did affect me. I didn't listen to Billy Joel. Like my parents were like, what's wrong? I love, they put on, what's one of his big songs?

What's Billy Joel's like? Piano Man. They put on Piano Man, you start sobbing in the back. They're like, Douglas, what's going on? I thought we sing along. Oh, that's so sad though. But I'm over it now. I can now enjoy Billy Joel

without thinking about that terrible thing.