The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #49 Unicorn Hunters with Kate Willett

Episode Date: November 9, 2021

Kate Willett joins us to talk about the downsides of unicorn hunters, using dating apps as a bi woman, ticket processing fees, Olive Garden, Christian summer camp, asking “What’s it like to be gay...?” in early AOL chatrooms, agnostic prayers, stumping for the left and (usually) losing, whether it's necessary to come out as "kinky" to your parents, parents who live separately but stayed married, and the cult tactics of Christian summer camps. My girlfriend also makes a surprise appearance at the end even though we discussed I would be recording until 6. No full video this week because I screwed up the cameras - but we'll be back next week with full video for our episode with Mike Recine. Sorry for being a dumbass! Join The Downside Patreon for early ad-free episodes the Friday before they're released on Tuesday, two BONUS episodes a month (AUDIO & VIDEO), + the good feeling inside that you're helping keep my delusions alive. Follow KATE WILLETT on twitter & instagram Catch KATE WILLETT on tour Listen to KATE WILLETT's podcast: Reply Guys Follow GIANMARCO SORESI on twitter, instagram, tiktok, & youtube Check out GIANMARCO SORESI's special 'Shelf Life' on amazon & on spotify Subscribe to GIANMARCO SORESI's mailchimp Follow RUSSELL DANIELS on twitter & instagram E-mail the show at TheDownsideWGS@gmail.com Produced by Fawn Sullivan, Paige Asachika, & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Spencer Sileo Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Part of the Authentic Podcast Network Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello. Hi. How's it going? Very good. Thank you. My name is Joe Marcus Oresi. I'm a comedy sellers Joe Marcus Oresi. This is my co-host Russell Daniels you're going to Marie Kondo things. Uh-huh. Because I recently went on a couple dates with this guy, and he invited me over for lunch at his apartment. And, you know, it was like someone that I kind of like knew through friends. I wasn't worried about it. But I went to his house, and he was a hoarder. Oh.
Starting point is 00:00:46 through friends i wasn't worried about it but i went to his house and he was a hoarder and um also polly not polly but like kind of like paul like he can't throw anything away but i was just like you need what how much stuff do you have to collect dude like but he told me that he i promised i'm gonna tell this back to you in like one second no perfect like he told me that he was um that he had like broken up with the previous woman that he was seeing because she was like mad about like the hoarding oh and so she was like me you're the piles and he's like bye bitch you know yeah and it was like i don't know so it was so i was just really happy to hear you say before this that like you were like working with your girlfriend yeah yeah yeah cleaning because that's important to her and i you know i love that for a guy yeah that's yeah that feels like he was um he was really like trying to right away be like and these are my piles and you better be cool with it
Starting point is 00:01:45 otherwise like like it was any theme to the piles yeah is there yeah it was a theme to hoarding magazines like videos in general just like it was it was just like piles of stuff everywhere um but they're like they're like this is how i am i'm never changing he had like 10 things like that if one of them is hoarding piles it you know never say never it was also he wanted to jewel for the rest of his life which like i'll be honest i jewel sometimes but i just can't that's quite a proclamation it's quite a proclamation and it's just like aside from like the health aspects of it like how dumb is it gonna look to be like if i was like 80 years old and like dueling like it already looks dumb for a woman in her 30s to be dueling like was this a conversation laid out like here are things i'm always gonna do like what what was the conversation where he was just giving you things that he's
Starting point is 00:02:43 always going to do um i think like you know to some extent in the first few dates it's kind of normal to like sort of lay out your non-negotiables gotcha okay you know and i think that like i save him for year five he was kind of laying out his non-negotiables to me like i have some non-negotiables as well like for example i'm not living anywhere except for new york or la okay like yeah you know i'll i'll bring that up casually yeah you know there's there's certain things right but yeah you gotta i feel like the non-negotiables like they have to be like stuff that like matters it shouldn't just be like i i stack things it's not negotiable. Sure. Sure.
Starting point is 00:03:25 Yeah. It reminds me when my mom found out that my dad was cheating on her. This is the story that she confronted him. She, she, okay,
Starting point is 00:03:34 I think I'm, I think I'm allowed to tell this. Who gives a fuck? My mom had heard a rumor from like a friend. Like a friend said, I saw your dad,
Starting point is 00:03:44 not your dad, I saw your husband, I saw your dad. Not your dad. I saw your husband. I saw your husband at a restaurant with another woman. And she called my dad and just said, I saw you at a restaurant with another woman. She pretended that she had seen it. Okay. Took a swing. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:03:57 And my dad said, let's meet at home right now. And apparently he said to her, he said, look, I'm never going to change. And that was the end of their marriage. This is The Downside. Welcome. One, two, three. Downside. You're listening to The Downside.
Starting point is 00:04:16 The Downside. With Gianmarco Ceresi. I never try to say I'll never change. Because then I'm like my dad, I feel like. When I cheat, I say, I'll stop this, I promise. never try to say i'll never change because then i'm like my dad i feel like when i cheat i say i'll stop this i promise yeah i mean i think there are i i would imagine we all have universal things like being like i know that i want to like live in new york or like la i think that's a you know i'm i a thing that maybe could change but it feels like pretty you know like yeah but
Starting point is 00:04:41 i do feel like that has more of a weight to it than yeah piling i mean there's a couple other ones like me and my cats are like a package deal yeah like i love my pet see that's a good one yeah one of my first relationships uh she we were we were walking home from a class and someone with a box of cats five baby kittens was exactly that was her reaction and she went over and like p them. Cool. We were leaving. And then the guy said, well, no one adopts them by the end of the day. Gonna have to drown them in my pool. And she grabbed the box.
Starting point is 00:05:12 And I'm not a cat. I'm not a cat guy. I struggle with cats. Yeah. I like cats in theory. I'm scared of them. I was scratched as a kid. Listen.
Starting point is 00:05:22 I'm going to say there's a middle ground between bringing all five into your home forever and then allow them to drown well she said she said they'd be adopted by the end of the week like people are dying to adopt wild cats from who knows where and and she ended up keeping all five no she gave three away and eventually had two and they were cool when they were babies but then they got older it was chaos i honestly would have i think made the same decision now i wouldn't because i already have two cats so i would bring them home and like find them other homes like yeah you know if they need to be like bottle fed or whatever before they're adopting or whatever i would foster kittens but i'm like two cats are my max like even if I'm dating someone that has a cat, it's not a deal breaker for me, but I'm
Starting point is 00:06:07 like, oh man, we'd be getting into a weird couple territory. I don't know if I would date someone with two cats. I mean, maybe, but that would be a lot of cats. Yes. Yeah. I mean, especially if you're living in New York. I mean, four cats in an apartment is, that would be a lot. I'd have to definitely not cohabitate with a polyamorous
Starting point is 00:06:25 hoarder in that situation with four cats it would just be like this apartment is fucking full yeah yeah um for those joining just now i forgot the whole pre-spiel where we talk about so this is this is the downside welcome downside where we talk about we talk about lives we we talk about the negatives we celebrate negativity we complain we k We kvetch, which is Jewish for complaining. And, you know, we have fun with it. And I like,
Starting point is 00:06:49 I start with something that's happened to me recently. Tomorrow is my anniversary, year anniversary with my girlfriend. Congratulations. Congrats. Thank you. It's very stressful.
Starting point is 00:06:58 And she's a very good gift giver. We've talked about this a lot on the podcast. And I struggle. I struggle. My mom returned a lot of my gifts as a child. That's what I blame it on. She was a gift returner. And it really hurt my feelings. Yeah. Especially because they were small gifts.
Starting point is 00:07:15 Just put them in the closet. You didn't have to return it for financial reasons. Yeah, yeah. So I... And you know my girlfriend, and she's in the entertainment industry, but not connected to theater. She doesn't like get theater tickets in general.
Starting point is 00:07:31 So she had talked about wanting to see Six, the musical, which is about Henry VIII's wives. Yes, Divorce Beheaded died, Divorce Beheaded survived. Yeah, yeah. And it's like a real like it i guess it went viral on tick tock like that's it's one of these musicals that like got big on tick tock after its london run moved here delayed because of the pandemic but everyone's very excited it's very popular right now yeah so um that was just the one that was the one like big gift that felt like
Starting point is 00:07:58 all right this is in the pocket this is in the money yeah and uh yeah i waited i procrastinated buying it and i mean these tickets were very uh they were like 250 each and this is like this is not the worst seats i didn't want no backs to be against a wall yeah all the way in the back but like front front of balcony front of balcony was like $1,500. It's when you look at these ticket prices, you're like, fuck Broadway enough with the Broadway talk. It's just for rich people.
Starting point is 00:08:33 Fuck Broadway. Burn it to the ground. If even someone with your face, voice and demeanor says, fuck Broadway, you know that Broadway is. Yeah. Cause you,
Starting point is 00:08:44 you, you Mr. Broadway belong in the theater. Exactly. demeanor says fuck broadway you know that broadway is yeah because you you mr broadway belong in the theater exactly burn it to the ground and um uh so i got uh the anniversary it's tomorrow so uh orchestra it's like the last row of the orchestra but but it's still not, it's still good. It's orchestra. Yeah. So, $2.50 each ticket plus the processing fee, which like, I was, I was like, oh,
Starting point is 00:09:11 I bet it's gonna be a $10 processing fee. Motherfuckers. It was $55 processing fee per ticket. Per ticket? Per ticket. That is, no.
Starting point is 00:09:20 And I just love it because it doesn't mean anything. No. I'd rather they call it the fuck you fee. Yeah. Because we can fee. Yeah. Eat a dick fee.
Starting point is 00:09:29 Eat a dick fee. So I get the tickets. And you know what? Well, wait till you go to the show too. I mean, I went on Saturday. The cost of like if you want to get a drink or something. Guess how much. If you wanted to get a glass of champagne, guess how much that was.
Starting point is 00:09:44 I wouldn't be caught dead getting a glass of champagne guess how much that was I wouldn't be caught dead getting a glass of champagne but just guess $22 $33 god damn for one glass of champagne and like a
Starting point is 00:09:52 I'm sure a big a nice size glass real hefty yeah like a big chunky plastic glass that says American Utopia on it so
Starting point is 00:10:00 so then next day next day Tova calls me. Hey, hey, oh my God. What are you doing tomorrow at three? Someone from some agency reached out. We got two free tickets to six.
Starting point is 00:10:18 Oh my God. No. And I say, baby, you have to turn them down. And she's like, what do you mean? I was like, you have to turn them down. And she's like, what do you mean? I was like, you have to turn them down. And I had to tell her,
Starting point is 00:10:29 I said, cause, Oh, you couldn't get a refund or anything. Yeah. They're very clear. And like, someone was like,
Starting point is 00:10:34 you should have scalped them, but I'm like, I'm not going to scalp them on our anniversary. But, and again, like I just, it was the gift. I don't have a,
Starting point is 00:10:40 I don't have a plan B. Yeah. So I was, I was just like, you got to turn the tickets down. Cause we're going Tuesday night. And thank God, thank God Tova,
Starting point is 00:10:49 she's cool. She wants to go to Olive Garden. Hell yeah. So we're going to have like a touristy night. So like at least the dinner won't break the bank. I don't know how long it's been since you've been to the Olive Garden in Times Square. Olive Garden in general,
Starting point is 00:11:02 I like. I've never been. Oh, you've never been? No. First of all, it's disgusting. Second of all, in a really amazing way, I loved Olive Garden as a kid. I would go there like every birthday, which is fine. It's reasonable to love Olive Garden if you're eight.
Starting point is 00:11:16 With like your friends or with the family birthday or the friend's birthday? It would usually be like my family and then I would be allowed to invite a couple friends. Cool, cool, cool. It would usually be like my family and then I would be allowed to invite a couple of friends. Cool, cool, cool. But every once in a while when I'm like on the road, I will go to the Olive Garden because I don't want anyone to see me eat Olive Garden. Like that's humiliating. So like I wouldn't do it with a friend or something, even if like it's one thing for
Starting point is 00:11:40 me to like talk about it, but it's another thing for people to like watch me consume. Maybe that's why they say when you hear your family because everyone's there alone yeah and they're like don't worry no almost everyone is with somebody but i mean i'll do it like if i'm you know if i'm driving through like north carolina or something yeah and i like don't want another hamburger i'll go to the olive garden but it is like really expensive. It's it's. What the fuck? I mean, it's not like on the scale of like restaurants. It's not expensive. Like it's not like Michelin star prices, but like it's super easy to drop.
Starting point is 00:12:17 I don't know, 50 bucks on dinner like for one person. I don't always do that. I usually get like just like appetizer and then like what's the thing is the breadsticks do i gotta get the breadsticks they're free oh they're free okay which is really like for me that's like why i think i there's still part of my heart for the olive garden because their salad is like really good and it's really yeah it again in a disgusting way like the dressing is just made of straight up sugar
Starting point is 00:12:45 sure sure you know like it's it's it's italian fast food but i mean like it's you know if i go out for dinner in brooklyn usually i'll go out for like um you know ethiopian or thai food or whatever and like olive garden is like way more expensive than that. Fuck. Well, I regret it already. I haven't been to Olive Garden. I haven't been to Golden Corral. No, I haven't. I haven't been there either. The Red Lobster I've never been to.
Starting point is 00:13:12 No, but I've had the, I had a roommate who liked to buy the cheesy biscuits. Cheddar Bay. Yeah. So I've had them before, but not been in a Red Lobster. My biggest regret where I grew up, we had McDonald's, Roy Rogers, all that shit. We did not really have Taco Bells. And I wish I could have had that childhood phase where you ate whatever at Taco Bell. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:13:34 I hated Taco Bell when I was little. What was your fast food? I'm from California, so definitely In-N-Out. Is it really that good? I think I had it once, and was like come on guys i mean this is a sacrilege but i'm gonna say the in and out pales in comparison to shake shack i think shake shack is much better see but at the end of the day a mcdonald's burger to me and mcdonald's fries trumps everything if i get mcdonald's oh sorry no no no i'm just i don't know sorry you don't like mcdonald's fries no no no i i like i like their fries um So fuck you. Oh, sorry. No, no. No, I'm just. Ignore him. No, sorry.
Starting point is 00:14:06 You don't like McDonald's fries? No, no, no. I like their fries. But I don't think of them as having the best burger at McDonald's. It's the whole package. It tastes pretty good, but. Oh, I'm eating it for sure. I'm just saying like.
Starting point is 00:14:21 That should be instead of I'm loving it. I'm eating it. Yeah. I'm not loving it. I did like the ones in Texas when I lived there. I'm eating it. Yeah. I'm not loving it. I'm eating it. I did like the ones in Texas when I lived there. I liked the Whataburger. I liked that a lot. And then there was another one, Jack in the Box.
Starting point is 00:14:31 But I think I liked Whataburger more. Then they got out like a big, you know, it was big. It's good. I've had that. I, yeah, if I eat McDonald's, I feel like sick all day. I will eat the breakfast though the like really the egg mcmuffins roll um i've never had it you gotta get the one with the sausage mcgriddle with the it's like a pancake bread oh i haven't done that one i think that would be a little bit much
Starting point is 00:14:54 talk shit about mcdonald's and your eyes lit up with joy i do love the breakfast things there um well uh so that's that's my my shitty thing of the week but we're here to talk about you thank you so much for being here yes i am so happy to be here this is so fun um i uh i i figured we'd we'd start at you grew up in la suburbs correct i did yeah how far away from la um like 40 minutes maybe okay no traffic 40 minutes and so did you deal with a lot of la people act child actors to an extent so the area where i grew up um well i i was born in the san fernando valley um and that's like i only lived there until i was like 11 or 12 and the valley is is cool like it's you know a lot a lot of people like we know live there and there's a lot of stuff to do.
Starting point is 00:15:45 Yeah. But then we moved to Santa Clarita, which is, like, very conservative. It's very, like, a lot of religious people. It has, I think, changed a little bit, but it's still pretty conservative. Were your parents conservative? My parents were medium. My extended family is really conservative. They're, like, evangelical. conservative my parents were medium my extended family is really conservative they're like evangelical um my parents are kind of they just my they just like reference the bible
Starting point is 00:16:12 when it's convenient to them you know how would they bring it up how did that how's that come up um you know like just like things related to my life when i was growing up like when i told them i wanted to be a performer, they're like, yeah, well the Bible says that you have to let your parents have input on that. And I was like, wait,
Starting point is 00:16:30 what chapter of the Bible does it just say you got to let your parents, it doesn't say that, but it was just, the Bible says has a plan B have a plan B. Yeah. Uh, but you know, definitely like anything that they didn't want me to be doing.
Starting point is 00:16:44 And it was like, well, it says in the Bible and I'm like,. It was like, well, it says in the Bible. And I'm like, you don't have any idea what it says in the Bible. But yeah, so Valencia is like, it's pretty conservative, but there are a lot of people in the entertainment industry also out there, like people who are like raising a family, you know, it's like a very like stroller baby. who are like raising a family you know it's like a very like stroller baby and so it definitely had elements of like LA area high school like I feel like so
Starting point is 00:17:13 many people had eating disorders like you would go in the bathroom at lunch and there would just be like a ton of people making themselves barf and stuff which oh my yeah like a ton like there was a line uh i'm no not a line but i mean they just go to the sink they wash off one finger there's just a lot of there was a lot of eating disorders um a lot of uh i don't know a lot of really wealthy people um yeah i definitely like my family was not wealthy at all like super middle class but um there were like a lot of people that like you know on their 16th birthday or whatever 15 and a half or whatever like they would get like a brand new car and you know it was like suvs usually why does a 15 and a half year old
Starting point is 00:17:59 need an suv yeah um but you know like there would even be people that had like confederate flags and shit and it's like dude i mean it's it was just it was really weird how did you feel at the time because you're you're politically active now were you back then were you mad at these people oh i was like absolutely miserable um i really really really hated the people that i went to high school with for the most part and i had like a little group of like liberal friends and stuff um but yeah i couldn't wait to get out of um that area and i went to uh the most i was like just for college i wanted to go to like the most liberal school sure so yeah um i can't even
Starting point is 00:18:45 like my school i went to high school in dc and it was so liberal they did a mock election once where they had the whole high school you didn't wear shoes in your school right sometimes we call teachers by their first names yeah where'd you get the shoes detail from i have a memory of you telling me that your school was really progressive and like you called the teacher first names and you never had shoes on did i make make that up? I think the shoes thing you made up. You're like, oh, you're calling
Starting point is 00:19:08 teachers first names. What's next? I really had a vision of you in high school taking your shoes off before every class you went to. I might have just
Starting point is 00:19:14 because I'm weird, but that wasn't like a high school policy. You like laid on the ground. I sat on the floor for a lot of it. I was like, I don't like desks.
Starting point is 00:19:21 I'm a floor guy. And they were like, that's pretty liberal. Cool. Yeah. Cool. What a cool kid. But we did like like desks. I'm a floor guy. And they were like, cool. Yeah. Cool. What a cool kid. But we did like a mock election.
Starting point is 00:19:27 I think this was, was this a Bush versus Kerry maybe? I'm trying to think if that was one high school. Yeah, that probably sounds right. And it was one person voted for Bush in the whole high school. In the whole high school. Oh, damn. Wow. And we found him and we kicked his his ass wow i assume it was but
Starting point is 00:19:47 but so it's just so different i can't i don't know what it would be like at that age to be like everyone around me is wrong um it was like pretty it was it it was it was a bummer especially because i was bi and i mostly liked girls and i felt like that was like a really big deal when did you realize or when did you well i definitely knew that about myself since i was like 12 or something and i had like friends that i would you know like really good friends here or there i would like say but i didn't like tell a lot of people about it until I was like 17 like kind of you know did I hear you I think in your stand-up you did chat rooms would you go on like those AOL chat rooms yeah I definitely went in like some um like lesbian chat rooms and stuff and be like
Starting point is 00:20:37 what's it like to be gay and stuff like that you know was it helpful was it was it a support system or was it just weird um i think it was helpful i don't super remember but i feel like there were people that were like yeah like hang in there you know like it's i feel like it was i mean it was the internet was very different you know of course i remember all the chat rooms i went in people would just go asl age sex location it was just i did I went in a couple, and I never forget the day that someone kept going KKK. And I thought they were saying like, okay, three times. And then there was like, at 12, I was like,
Starting point is 00:21:15 oh, Ku Klux Klan is what they're referencing. It was just trolls. It was just trolls figuring out what being a troll is. And at that time, it wasn't even racist. It was just them saying K was just trolls, like figuring out what being a troll is. And at that time it wasn't even racist stuff. It was just them saying KKK over and over again. Like they're getting their troll legs, you know, testing things out,
Starting point is 00:21:34 putting in their 10,000. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was, I mean, it was a better time. You could just leave the chat room and that was the end of it.
Starting point is 00:21:41 They couldn't find your address yet. Yeah. And docks you. Yeah you yeah definitely that was different i i think i think that that was an important time on the internet for like a lot of like young queer kids or whatever because it was just like not you know it's weird to think about it like how much more conservative society was particularly around lgbt stuff like even like 10 years ago yeah and so i i do think that it was really helpful for a lot of queer kids to be able to like connect with other queer people obviously you know there's creeps and all that too but i just mean like i think that that was
Starting point is 00:22:22 like a positive side now it feels like there's no upside to the internet yeah yeah we've gone past where it was yeah yeah even even at my liberal i mean there was a couple kids who were out at my school but not a lot and a lot of kids who you know came out later but like at the time you were like, come out. Yeah. But it's just hard to remember. It's just, I mean, just 10 years ago, how different it was. Yeah, there was one openly gay guy in my school,
Starting point is 00:22:58 my friend Brian, and he was in the band and he came out to everyone. He was like, super like like i'm gay yeah and and i think like the band and like theater and like the kind of like performing arts is probably like a more sort of like supportive segment of the school um but he was telling me i like took him out for coffee and he was like you know i was like you know what's being gay like and he's like I love it like I'm going down to like Venice Beach every weekend and like hooking up with really hot guys in the bathroom and I just realized like how different like my experience was
Starting point is 00:23:38 it's like a like a young lesbo you know I was just like well i wrote like a poem uh oh my god a friend that i've been secretly pining for for three years you know yeah um and we did any of that religious stuff did it were you out of it did you think about it at all in terms of being bi yeah i was like intermittently religious until probably like halfway through my freshman year of college um i would like the thing about like evangelical christianity is like you it's kind of like you get like saved again and again like they have like you know these camps and so i went to christian camp a few times and um they basically you know for like the first couple days it's like really normal like just like normal camp shit you know where you like uh get to you know kayak and um you know go on hikes and it's it's fun but
Starting point is 00:24:40 uh then they like every night they kind of like amp up the rhetoric about like hell like the for the first first time like the first couple days of church service which is usually like twice a day it's like you know jesus is your best friend you can talk to him about anything and like this kind of stuff that's not really upsetting yeah but then they just like really amp up the hell rhetoric and they they do all of the like cult tactics right where they like you know you're at least for that short amount of time like you're separated from like you know you're anybody that you know like at home and can't really talk to your parents or anything unless it's an emergency and you don't get very much sleep and you're hungry all the time. And like, so you're just kind of in,
Starting point is 00:25:29 and you know, it's very like group think kind of atmosphere. Cause like most people who are there are like extremely religious. And so it kind of breaks you down over the week. And I think each time I went to Christian camp, I would like get really scared of hell and then like get saved again and then i would um kind of like you know sort of get back into my life and be like well i don't actually know if god hates gay people and yeah you know i was really conflicted
Starting point is 00:25:59 about it internally and i don't think that i felt like all the way sort of like over that hell fear until I was like probably 19. When you visualized hell, I'm so thankful I didn't have hell because I'm an anxious kid. Yeah. And I have that imagination. Like, is it to you? Like, did you see it? Is it like you on fire and everyone's on fire and you're just standing in a room? Like, did you visualize it or was it just like, I don't want to go there?
Starting point is 00:26:25 Did you think of fire? did you think of heat yeah i definitely thought about like being like burned forever um and you know apparently it's like pitch black but you're also like burning and um it like smells horrible like sulfur um and you know it's just eternal there's like no way out yeah you're just like there's there's no second chances like once you're in hell you're in hell god like never changes his mind about this kind of stuff so yeah i did visualize i was really scared of it i had a friend i had a friend he was a friend who came out after college sort of but he he told me he was raised catholic and he uh every time he masturbated he would cry afterwards in high school and i just i thought because he thought he was going to hell
Starting point is 00:27:09 because of it or something oh my god and like compared to me do you so you never had like watching anime you never had that feeling of like no i never i never had any tie to it sex masturbation was never tied to anything yeah bad for me. Maybe I should have had a little more. A little more like, well, you should read. But, well, good. I'm glad. Was there any part of the religious stuff that you enjoy at the community?
Starting point is 00:27:37 Or were you like, that was... No, there were definitely parts of it that were fun. I mean, I made friends with people that I'm still friends with to some extent or another. I'm, they're not religious anymore. You know, like I think that like there are a lot of people there that also like went on
Starting point is 00:27:56 to become cool, you know? And it's like, it was fun to go to camp. Like that's why I kept doing it. Cause it was like a thing where like a ton of people from my high school went, you know. So it was like getting to have like, you know, a seven day sleepover with their friends and stuff. So it was.
Starting point is 00:28:13 I love summer camp. Summer camp was the best. Yeah. There was. That's where like I had my first kiss and my first, you know, over the bra boob touch. Yeah. That's exciting. What age was it with these camps i think i went
Starting point is 00:28:28 for the first time when i was like 13 and i think i went for the last time when i was like 16 was there hooking up at these camps um very chaste hooking up like i think that like some people would like sneak off like i snuck off with a guy and I got in trouble for it. But like all we did was like take a walk together. Like there was nothing physical that happened whatsoever. But it was just that I was like a girl and he was a guy. And it was. You should tell him like I'm not even into this.
Starting point is 00:29:00 I'm into I'd rather go with a girl. Yeah. Well, so that was like i wouldn't have ever even like brought that up there i was so stressed out about it but like i actually we were can't christian camp so this guy and i he was also very religious he um and i decided to pray together so we like sat down and like said a prayer i don't remember what the prayer was for but it was you know probably just a general like you know thank you jesus etc um when we get back the camp counselor like was like hey i need to speak with you and like very serious tone and you know she was like you know about what happened with mike today and i was like you know we shouldn't have
Starting point is 00:29:43 gone for a walk but like you know we did it we didn't hook like, you know, we shouldn't have gone for a walk, but like, you know, we did it. We didn't hook up or, you know, I didn't say hook up, but I was like, you know,
Starting point is 00:29:49 nothing inappropriate happened between us. You know, like we just actually prayed together. And she's like, yes, I know. I heard about that. And,
Starting point is 00:29:57 um, a woman should never be leading a man in prayer. Yeah. Oh my God. That was the thing that I was like in trouble for is that I was the one who said the prayer. Like it wasn't even like, there was no question of like,
Starting point is 00:30:11 did he finger bang you or anything? Like everyone was on the same page and nothing like that occurred. But I think what's so amazing. Can you imagine like you're like, they're there doing, they are sneaking away to pray. You still have a problem with it.
Starting point is 00:30:23 But that's one of the things with the religion where I'm like, if the goal is really to like keep them. Yeah. Like loosen up a little. Yeah. This is good. They're doing the thing.
Starting point is 00:30:31 Did you, like outside of that, did you like genuinely like pray like on your own? Like was that a part of your life? Yeah, definitely. Interesting. Yeah. No, I definitely prayed on my own and um you know i think i was like conflicted about it because like i had when i was younger gone to like different types of christian churches like i i uh went to a lutheran elementary school and then i went to a Lutheran elementary school and then I went to a Catholic junior high and at least like
Starting point is 00:31:07 in Lutheran stuff um it's a lot more like you know help your neighbor like God is your buddy and like God loves you no matter what and it just I don't think Lutherans put a lot of emphasis on hell granted I was really tiny so yeah I don't know um but even like even with catholicism like there's just like a lot more room for like yeah you know like you sin but then you like confess and like you know then it's removed um like particularly like evangelical denominations of christianity like they just put like a ton more emphasis on the hell shit and like you know god is gonna like burn your soul forever and i think like i still from when i was a kid had that like kind of like well but like what if god is nice you know so i was kind of like torn between those two things
Starting point is 00:31:59 so i was like praying like god like let me know if you're nice or whatever. Just checking in. That's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. It is crazy. It's yeah. It's like always crazy, but it's funny that you forget how crazy it is. And you're like the fact that there's just like millions of people that like kids are scared.
Starting point is 00:32:20 It's wild. Can you still pray now? Do you ever pray? I do pray sometimes, but like, I don't even know if I believe in God or not. Sure. I'm definitely definitively agnostic, but- I feel very similarly. I try to not-
Starting point is 00:32:36 I don't want to be an atheist, but my dad had a surgery recently, and it's these moments of complete helplessness that it's kind of like, oh, I wish, like, you know, I couldn't pray without my brain going, come on, Jamarco, oh, now. No, but it is wild. Oh, right now, Jamarco, now you're gonna ask for your dad. It is wild when there's like a traumatic
Starting point is 00:32:58 or like something you do like feel some sort of like thing to like, like feel like I wanna call upon something like i i want to call upon something you may want to but can you sincerely in your heart but like you do your mind goes to that place that's why i think i'm not an atheist either because my mind has gone to that place of like a thing and i don't believe i have no relationship to religion i have no thing but i but it's a weird human thing to be like to try and call upon a higher thing like when you're when you have when you do you don't know what to do you don't know
Starting point is 00:33:31 what to do and but i'm also like that's probably the best way of doing it rather than like those people that got on facebook they're like um i have a job interview today everyone's sending prayers like no no no like when your human body is like i don't know what to do and you like reach out to the thing like uh it's it's just interesting yeah i think that like i mean because even some buddhists pray and like yeah it's not um like i think that there's a lot of people that like pray even that don't believe in god and it it's like, I don't know this. I feel like this makes it sound too like basic or whatever, but I feel like a lot of people use it as like sort of a form of like a spiritual,
Starting point is 00:34:12 like intention, you know, um, that sounds like way too like life coaching or whatever, but like, I'll say the serenity prayer sometimes like the super common 12 step one, like God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can
Starting point is 00:34:27 and the wisdom to know the difference. And I've been on my knees praying that prayer during quite a few relationships. It's just in the middle of like, I'm so hung up on somebody. It's just like, I need to accept the things I cannot change. Do you do it on your knees?
Starting point is 00:34:45 Yeah, usually. Wow. Yeah, I think. I should things I cannot change. Do you do it on your knees? Yeah, usually. Wow. Yeah, I think. I should try that. Yeah. I mean, like, I think that people can, like, pray, like, anyway. Of course. But, like, but that, was that how you prayed when you were younger?
Starting point is 00:34:57 Yeah. Like, there must be some kind of connection to, you know, it still, like, tapped you into that. Well, I think, like, for like for me like what i get out of praying as a person that like doesn't necessarily believe in god is it's like it's like gonna it's like a physical and like spiritual act of surrender and like being on your knees is like it's kind of symbolic of that and it's like no like i don't have control over this thing so i am letting it go you know like i hope that i'd like i i hope that good things happen but ultimately like i am i am surrendering my grip on the situation a little bit because you know there's just some things
Starting point is 00:35:38 like you're talking about like a family illness or whatever like you don't have control over it you know yeah um what's your family situation now parents still alive my parents are still alive and they live um separately but they are still married and i think they have a good marriage um now that they live separately hey i i i've heard i'm a big proponent of this right now yeah but they they used to live together yeah and then they separated because they were just too much fighting? They separated, I think, in large part because, like, my dad loves to hoard. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:36:10 Really? That's really true. Wow. And, like, he likes to keep a lot of stuff all around, you know? Anything in particular? He saves a lot of, like, papers and papers and like receipts and stuff like he's he's one of these people that's like you know really like super organized about like i need all of my tax stuff from like forever ago and you know just it's mostly all like papers and
Starting point is 00:36:36 documents but just like any paper or document that he's ever had in his whole entire life basically and so like there was just like a lot of my dad's not like a gross hoarder like there's no like food trash or whatever like it's just like a it's just like a ton of like files and you know is he paranoid about like the irs is gonna auto me for because you only have to keep it for six years i think is the thing i don't know if there's like a logic to it it's just like it's a common thing that people do and there is definitely a fear yeah like throwing it away but i don't think you know i i think if you asked him like what do you think will happen you know if you throw this away he would be
Starting point is 00:37:16 like well i i just need to go through it and make sure that there's like yeah yeah that i can't throw away but then it's like there's literally so much that like he's never going to go through it, you know. So your mom just said, I'm going to get my own place. Well, so my mom is also really social. And my dad really doesn't like people coming over. And my mom like loves to have friends over all the time. They're just like pretty much the most like mismatched, like, um, like living style wise people that could ever exist. That's probably why they like,
Starting point is 00:37:49 liked each other in a way like introverts and extroverts are always, you know, but, um, yeah, they just really did not enjoy living together, but I think that they enjoy each other as people. And so she,
Starting point is 00:38:01 she moved out and how far away, like, is she close? She lives like 20 minutes away and they hang out every day every not every single day but multiple days per week and it's working yeah i mean i love that it's working yeah yeah it's interesting because i do feel like it's it's uh i've heard of this a few times now from people and it's uh i imagine like you spend all these years and then you're like you know it's just better three or four days a week.
Starting point is 00:38:27 Yeah. I mean, like and but still very much want to be connected. And, you know. Yeah. I just like this idea of like, yeah, you don't have to match all your habits. Yeah. I know Tova's hearing this. Tova sometimes talks about living together. And I'm like, she's right around the corner. I'm like, this is this not perfect. I mean, tremendous. Yeah. But I i mean they they were they did live together they had that experience and then you know it grew into something else okay we'll go through that we'll go through the whole process and then we'll figure it out no my parents lived together for i mean almost 40 years like they've been married a long time um because they'd already been married
Starting point is 00:39:02 for like a long time when they had me i'll do it for 40 with tova and then we'll learn yeah but they i mean and like for how much they like argued about stuff i never thought that they would like end up like having like a good marriage because there was just like a lot of stuff but like i think them living separately like just solved like so much of it like do they do they do sleepovers sometimes yeah yeah i don't think that i think that they're i don't know i don't pry but i get the impression that their marriage is more like a deep friendship yeah yeah yeah which i think happens with like a lot of people yeah when you get older yeah you know things chill out yeah i think um it's also i remember like do your parents have sex uh i don't know i i don't pry either um uh i uh but um even my grandparents i always think of
Starting point is 00:40:01 like they have sex well yeah no they're dead but they uh they had separate bedrooms and i you know it's the classic like people make fun of it these days like and i was like i like thinking of them now and and knowing my memories of them like they had such different like like like sleeping pad like one would be up later one and you're like it makes so much more sense like that that they yeah they had two different bedrooms they had a whole house that none of the kids lived in anymore why not make two bedrooms you know yeah i just think it's nice if you occasionally come into snuggle maybe they did maybe they did who knows um siblings i have a brother he passed away like 10 years ago 10 years ago yeah and what happened um my brother had a really rare medical condition
Starting point is 00:40:46 called an avm which is have you heard of it you're like nodding so okay so basically you can get this type of tumor that is it isn't cancer but it's like your blood vessels are kind of like grow in a little tangle instead of like um how blood vessels are supposed to be so um you can get like really dangerous blood clots and stuff and he had this condition um pretty much his whole life and ended up passing away from it when he was 23 so was he forget is he younger or older he was younger younger yeah don't do the math i'm 29 and so he had this condition his whole life yeah so was it was it like did you know growing up oh he'll probably pass away sooner than a average person yeah definitely i mean like the because when he was first diagnosed with that condition he was like eight and they were like you know this will probably you know cause
Starting point is 00:41:53 him to to die like in you know six months or one year or something really that yeah so oh my god then but then he ended up like living for like a long time, you know, like many, many years. And why? Like what, just lucky medicine? I mean, a lot of surgeries. He had a ton of surgeries. And they were like, I think kind of, you know, managing it and stuff. Were you close to him?
Starting point is 00:42:20 Yeah. I mean, it was kind of, definitely we were really close when we were little we were we were like we played together all the time um by the time my brother was older like he had a lot of um there was like a lot of like mental and emotional stuff related to his tumor like he affected his brain and stuff yeah so um i mean like i loved my brother very much i still love my brother very much but like there was like definitely a point where like he wasn't able to like interact in a typical way yeah you know yeah and was he with your parents the whole time yeah he lives with my parents yeah life fuck yeah um so sorry i'm just thinking i'm just i'm just
Starting point is 00:43:10 because i just think i have younger siblings and i'm just thinking about as you got older and you you go off to college and kind of what you felt your obligation was in terms of like time or or being with someone who is difficult to communicate with that i mean that's a complicated question and i struggled with it a lot um i mean when i got into college it was like a very big like decision for me like if i should go you know really and that but then the thing was is it was like at that point he had been living with his illness for like 10 years you know and it was like this thing of like well like i don't know like at some point i'm i just like i need to like yeah forward in my life especially because like i didn't like live very well with my parents either you know it was like a kind of high
Starting point is 00:44:04 conflict situation i get along with them now but it was I was really looking to get out you know so I definitely like visited and called a lot um but yeah I don't know I like I had a ton of guilt about it um I think you know my family was like really encouraging me like go to college and stuff like they wanted that for me yeah so not always there was definitely like some some guilt sometimes but I mean I think you know it was like this thing where it seemed I think it's it definitely seemed possible that he could be like living with that condition for like way way longer than you know maybe like it would end up being treatable i don't know there was no kind of like super clear like
Starting point is 00:44:51 this is exactly what's gonna happen yeah that's what's so yeah stressful yeah for him for you guys yeah it's very very stressful to just have that kind of cloud over everything yeah definitely um you know and i think my parents were you know they they're they're like whole life basically it was like about like taking care of my brother you know and um it uh i i mean like obviously they're like extremely sad but now that it's been like many years like I've like seen them like start to like get hobbies and like see their friends and like kind of have like they're like getting to like do some stuff in their life I'm really happy for them let's let's take our commercial break here hopefully for antidepressants i'm so sorry this episode is brought to you by a real pain from searchlight pictures comes one of the
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Starting point is 00:46:41 Buy from DysonCanada.ca. With ANC on, performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage. Accessories sold separately. And we're back. So where'd you go to college? I went to UC Berkeley. The liberal, the most liberal, most gayest place I could find. Did you walk in and just, was it amazing?
Starting point is 00:47:00 Was it everything you wanted at the beginning at least? Yeah, definitely. I loved it. I loved, I'm not going to say I never had, you know, sad days or whatever, but I was so happy. I loved it so much. I had a great college experience. I definitely, like my first week, I went to like the queer women's meeting or whatever. There was like queer women's mixer.
Starting point is 00:47:22 And I was so intimidated. Meet all the people from the chat rooms. like hey well no like it was just like like i was just like a little sorority girl that just kind of like liked girls you know like i was still still a pretty basic bitch you know like it was berkeley so you know there was a ton of people that were like this i remember this one woman she came out she's she told like we kind of like went around a circle and like introduced ourselves first which i feel like is very different than how the uh gay men's mixer went on probably but she was like i came out um as queer when i was 13 no two specifically i came out as queer to my parents when I was 13 and I came out
Starting point is 00:48:06 as kinky to my parents when I was 15 and I'm like do not come out as kinky to your parents like don't they don't need to know that like but I was like everyone was polyamorous and like what does that mean I'm just because kinky can mean
Starting point is 00:48:22 a lot of different things right I'm sure the parents had zero follow-ups. Okay, sweetheart. It's a pretty quick turnaround, too, from 13 to 15 to be like, I feel this so strongly that I have to come out. I would love to hear the parents. Sweetheart, you don't have to tell us anything you're into. We're fine.
Starting point is 00:48:41 We don't need to talk about it. Yeah. And what were you studying i i studied english literature and i also did a lot of theater stuff you did i did yeah what shows do you remember um i feel like every play that i was in in college was like some really weird obscure thing like movement piece yeah i mean i did, the only recognizable plays that I ever did were Shakespeare plays. Yeah. But everything else was definitely people have not heard about it.
Starting point is 00:49:13 A lot of student-written things. And were you getting into political stuff then? Yeah, I was very political in college, like specifically around LGBT rights issues. And what year was, was gay marriage legalized again? 26, no,
Starting point is 00:49:32 2014, I think, right? I don't know. I think much later than you think. Yeah. Like you hear it now. You're like,
Starting point is 00:49:39 really? Like I still remember with my stepfather and he's, he's, he's a conservative. He's an independent, but he's never's he's a conservative he's an independent but he's never voted not republican there's too many yeah but i just i always will never forget he drove me to middle school and i was i was pro-gay marriage just because i was in theater i think like it was just an easy i did i also everyone was divorced i was like who are you playing yeah
Starting point is 00:49:59 and he said he said i'm fine with them being together i just don't think they should use the word marriage yeah i remember just being a little kid and being like, why? That was the worst argument I'd ever heard in my life. Also, when I hear stuff like that, you're like, you didn't fucking think of that. You're just regurgitating something at me. And everyone does that. But it's one of those things where it's like, shut the, you don't feel that. You don't feel that.
Starting point is 00:50:23 You read it and now you're repeating it. I said, love is love is love. And I came up with that and i'm not regurgitating um love trump's hate i actually coined that um but yeah no i also was like i when i started college it was like you know right um in the lead up to the ir war. So I was doing a lot of protesting of that too. Yeah. And I think that was like, that was really heartbreaking. Cause I was like, I thought that the protests were going to work.
Starting point is 00:50:54 I was like, there's so many people. They're not just going to do a war. When there's this many people that are yelling that we shouldn't do it. I'm sure in every young protesters life, they go, they realize, Oh,
Starting point is 00:51:06 this won't work. Maybe it'll help a little. Yeah.ester's life, they go, they realize, oh, this won't work. Maybe it'll help a little. Yeah. And then, you know, we have to do it anyway. Yeah. But that was like pretty demoralizing, you know? And I think when like Obama got elected, I, like many people, kind of didn't feel the need to be as political because i mean i definitely wasn't like i had friends in college that were like socialists and were like no this guy is like obama's like actually like he's gonna do some bad stuff to you but i don't know it was just like
Starting point is 00:51:38 all right like shut up i was so glad i was big pro obama i was I was Oh yeah Everything was great Those early days Yeah There used to be a Hillary sticker Right here For after Obama But yes Well
Starting point is 00:51:50 I feel like the people You know There were people Talking about Like What Obama was Doing Like
Starting point is 00:52:00 That was bad Like from a Like a leftist standpoint Yeah Not talking about the birthers I'm talking about like People who were against drone strikes and i think that you know that was just like criticism of obama like there just wasn't like a lot of super focal like left criticism of it it was there but a lot of it was like from you know academia and i just felt like
Starting point is 00:52:26 i think i mean i was young but i think my attitude was like i don't know i'm not a professor so what am i i don't know but then especially when you're younger it's very easy to go well it's really complicated yeah exactly you know it's really there's some really bad dudes out there yeah sometimes people yeah i felt so stupid because i feel like it took me way too long to like delve into any of that like and i only found i i feel like i only knew because i was listening to this album do you know uh anoni has this great album uh that's all about uh all about that and it's like it literally the first song is called drone bomb me and i was like listening and i was like wait and then it was like this great it's like this great sad dance kind of album
Starting point is 00:53:09 but it's all about like the the letdown of of of obama and uh i was like and then all of a sudden i was like reading all these art i felt like and i was so stupid i was like wait i had no idea this is going on like i it really was like a blind, a blind spot that you're just, like, not thinking about, not talking about it, you know? Well, I think, like, you know, the way that anything is talked about that's, like, you know, foreign policy, I think there's, like, a deliberate media narrative that, like, oh, this is too confusing to understand. Like, this is, like, you'll too confusing to understand like this is like you'll never get your head around this like you know you have you know this this stuff is just like it's basically incomprehensible like the reasons behind things and what has to happen on the you
Starting point is 00:53:57 know the world stage blah blah or like you know like you know sanctions like uh there's all these euphemisms for stuff that like like sanctions for example it's like i've the media doesn't report straight up like we've decided to deny people food and medicine you know like um and i think that can make it feel really hard to understand. And that is definitely like, that's definitely on purpose, right? But I think like, you know, a lot of people are like, I think now like the consensus is broad that the Iraq war was like one of the worst, most disgusting ideas of all time.
Starting point is 00:54:47 And I think, I mean, you know, there were a lot of people that were against it at the time too, and I was one of them, but. No one wrote a more scathing eulogy for Colin Powell than Trump's. Trump wrote a real, it is funny, those moments that I'm like, calling Chapo a trap house. You'll agree on this very
Starting point is 00:55:10 viscerally. I came very late to politics and I'm very lazy or I feel very dumb but I feel like I've become just further and further to the left and still feel dumb,
Starting point is 00:55:26 still feel dumb about a lot of how the process works. Yeah. But ultimately listening, you know, I listen to Chapo Chapas now. Sometimes it becomes so nihilist. I go like, oh, it's just so nihilist. I don't know how you can care about anything or not just like kind of go in a corner and go like,
Starting point is 00:55:44 well, I guess nothing can get better. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Chapo in particular, I felt like they've been like, you know, you can just tell that the outcome of the 2020 election was just like deeply painful for them. Did you think in your heart of hearts that Bernie could have won? um yeah there was definitely i
Starting point is 00:56:08 mean it was a short window of time where i thought that you know yeah um like i think that uh after new hampshire and nevada i was like are they gonna be able to stop this you know yeah um i had a feeling that they would pull something out um and by they i mean like the democratic establishment i had a feeling that they're like but i mean bernie was like there was all these like centrist candidates right like you know klobuchar buddha judge you know and uh bernie was like leading in the polls like and you know, and Bernie was like leading in the polls, like, and, you know, partially because like the centrist vote was sort of so spread out. And it seems like they may not be able to stop this, you know? But then like right before Super Tuesday, you know,
Starting point is 00:56:58 like the Klobuchar Pete, they're all just dropped out at the same time and endorsed Biden. And it was like, okay, it's fucking over, you know? I just remember seeing my mom and my mom's like you know politically watches the news every night but not not going in depth and she's like bernie's just so loud and it was just yeah it was more one of those things if i'm like same thing and i'm like i'm like that's the narrative that like that's how that's what it comes down to is what it feels like sometimes. That's the narrative that won. Bernie's loud, and a whole swath of Americans won't even consider it because he's loud, especially because my mom's Jewish. There's part of me where I'm like, I'm not saying it's anti-Semitic per se,
Starting point is 00:57:36 but there's just like a, yeah, he talks like this. This is how he communicates. This is how, as opposed to quiet, it made me so mad. But it was also like, well, that's America. That's what democracy is. That's how easy it is to sway a huge swath of older people. Yeah, yeah, definitely. How do you handle being, because if you're on the left or if you're a leftist, you're not going to win a lot.
Starting point is 00:58:02 A lot of the victories are you got someone slightly further to the left. But that is a, you know, that is something. I mean, there's like things that you need that thing to move. Don't you? I mean, it's like a... You never get the big win. You never get the big, oh, our guy or lady became president.
Starting point is 00:58:21 Yeah, I mean, you're right. Like to be, I ted alexandro he you know i was talking to him on the night of super tuesday because we were on the same show together and he's been a leftist for a long time and i you know i was just like i i just saw the writing on the wall at this at that point you know and even like after south carolina or whatever but he was like you know to be a leftist means that you're gonna like lose all the time you know and um it is true that those big ones are really rare like you know dsa has been really successful in new york uh on some local campaigns and you know there's like there are material
Starting point is 00:59:05 differences like it's oh it's way harder to evict someone in New York City than it used to be and that's largely because of the work of Julia Salazar who was a DSA backed candidate that's serving like the the Bushwick area and you know um i think that it can be frustrating because like you're right that the stuff that we want to happen like rarely happens but if it's like you think about like what is you know the most kind of progressive uh like set of legislative achievements in the United States history is probably the New Deal, right? Like that was just huge redistribution. I'll tell you what that is later. Well, and then that was something that, you know,
Starting point is 00:59:54 only really happened because there was like a viable threat of like communism. Like the Communist Party was gaining some traction. Like the communist party was gaining some traction and, you know, like I don't think that like there, there is whatever happens like in American politics, it is going to be as a result of like rich people not wanting something more left to happen, you know? Yeah, sure. So there has to be a real threat of it. I've only read a little bit about like the communism scare and I do always wonder,
Starting point is 01:00:31 there's some story about Zero Mostel. Do you know Zero Mostel? He played Tevye in the original Fiddler on the Roof. He was just a big, he was in the original Producers. Oh, cool. And it was him and some Broadway choreographer. It was just this time in Hollywood where some people were. Hold hold on i need to tell you i thought you're gonna say it
Starting point is 01:00:49 was just him and some broad we don't need to know her name someday uh some famous choreographer it's slipping my mind but it was a time when hollywood where there was the the blacklisting and people ratting out other people for talking about communism i always just wonder it's one of those like where would i be if i had been part of that thing i'm sure i would have gone to some meetings yeah then would i be a rat i don't know do you think you you could have been a rat well we don't know i'm gonna say no right now yeah fuck you i'm not you're trying to kill me for a thing i haven't for being honest about not being sure yeah yeah that's true um no i would never um well and how do you feel we didn't talk about stand-up much but but how do you feel in terms
Starting point is 01:01:35 of i think politics and this is my my point of view is that if your stand-up is trying to reinforce a point, like my problem with political comedy is like if it's coming from a real point of view, it starts to feel like a lecture or it starts to feel like, oh, you're trying to prove something and humor has become secondary and it's tough.
Starting point is 01:01:58 How do you feel in terms of politics and comedy? And especially there's a whole Jon Stewart show I just watched. It was very serious. Have you seen the new show? I haven't seen it yet the first show i mean it was more 60 minutes than a comedy show and i was like well this is what he wants to do it was still very good yeah but i was like yeah because at some point like how much can you laugh about if your point is veterans aren't getting health care yeah i my My own stand up isn't that political, usually largely for the reason that you mentioned,
Starting point is 01:02:28 because like, I don't know. I mean, I have bits about like political stuff. Like, you know, I have bits about like abortion and like other, you know, kind of specific things. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know kind of specific things but yeah i mean i think you know it's hard to like with stuff that's like that sad it's it's hard to make it funny but it's not to say that no one can it's just like very challenging and how do you feel so many i feel like there's so many comedians some of whom are funny who politically it's like i'm thinking of one in particular
Starting point is 01:03:06 that we had discussed once where people who are funny but politically they're like they they lean in they play off this kind of conserved they get this conservative fan base but they're still humorous yeah and like part of you me as a comedian part of me is like yeah say something fucking crazy but it feels like it it uh excites a group of people that i find abhorrent yeah or uh deplorable yeah yeah i mean i just really hate that like oh man you know in comedy for like definitely since i guess you know trump really like it feels like there's this sort of like real sort of split between like conservative comedians and like woke comedians and stuff and i mean i'm just like really tired of it like i think like don't i mean like yeah if you're like
Starting point is 01:04:01 just if you're like a very famous person and you're using like your huge platform to on a marginalized group of people that's like behavior in my in my opinion of course but it's i'm just so tired of this like culture war and there's a strange especially with the with the abortion ruling in texas there was a strange group of like conservative comics like being like talking about the sanctity of life or like ant like pro-life arguments and i was like i was like this doesn't fit in line with your fuck everything attitude do people can do what they want you're talking about the sanctity comedians don't talk about the sanctity of anything exactly yeah and it's it's's like, to me it was wild.
Starting point is 01:04:47 There was one comedian who, who is one of the most like, burned to the ground comedians, who was complaining about like, Lil Nas X, like was a little much. And I was like, I was like,
Starting point is 01:04:58 what are you talking about? Oh my God. What are you talking about? Yeah. And especially, I feel like, for me, those are like slips
Starting point is 01:05:08 where I'm like, oh, you're really revealing, you're playing to your base, your fan base. And I'm like, ugh. I can appreciate a nihilist,
Starting point is 01:05:17 but like the moment you're like a thing, ugh. Yeah, I don't know. It's just like, it's frustrating that it's become like so such an entrenched debate, right? Because like on the one hand, like you have these people that are like, you know, I should be allowed to say anything.
Starting point is 01:05:40 And like the stuff that they want to say is like you know pretty like asshole in some cases and it's like i don't know if it necessarily has to be like a conversation about free speech always i think like it can just be a conversation about being an asshole and i wish we also talked about bad jokes like i i have a joke that i think is a decent joke about the alec baldwin thing that i think is a well-written joke. Maybe someone can tell me it's not. Maybe someone can tell me I shouldn't make the joke. But there's this conception of like, and I'm a big Anthony Jeselnik fan. But there's this conception of like being an edgy comedian simply means talking about the thing that's inappropriate.
Starting point is 01:06:21 I'm like, but there's not a good joke here. You're just like rolling in the shit yeah no i i totally agree you know um and you know i love a good edgy joke like i think you know a lot of yeah a lot of these people that are like comedy like it's just gonna be about jokes i'm like okay then write some you know yeah but uh but then on the other hand you know you got like all, then write some, you know? Yeah. But then on the other hand, you know, you got like all these people who are like, you know, cancel culture isn't even real. And it's like, I don't know.
Starting point is 01:06:52 I mean, I don't think there's any denying that like we now live in a society where like the response to someone saying something that sucks is public shaming on a massive level. And I don't know if that, I mean, it's... I think of it less as a cancel call. I've always said like, especially with Twitter, I'm like
Starting point is 01:07:16 it's algorithm culture. I mean, there's something about that magnification. I've been in trouble. I got in trouble on TikTok for some joke that was doing well. But on TikTok for some joke that was doing well. But on TikTok, it doesn't, the way it works, it just doesn't work like Twitter. Where like it can just get screenshot and go viral. It's going to go away.
Starting point is 01:07:35 No one will care. Yeah. And that's what I think more than cancel culture. I mean, and now everyone said, I mean, cancel culture. People have said it for everything. No, it's so stupid. Because it's like always, you know, it's like, you know, before cancel culture is like PC culture. And, you know, it's just like. People have been having some version of this conversation.
Starting point is 01:07:54 Like, my trucker posted the other day this, like, quote of like a famous comedian in 1954. I saw this. Talking about like this comedian. i don't remember his name um but he was famous at the time and he was talking about like how um people you know it was no longer acceptable for white people to perform in blackface and he's like this is gonna kill comedy and people have always been having some version of this conversation and you know it's like redundant and repetitive but i also think that you know it's this impulse to like just publicly shame and pile on people there's certainly something ugly motivating that like some of the some of the time at least i'm not saying i'm not gonna like i don't want to be judged during an execution or like every time
Starting point is 01:08:50 it was deserved or not i'm sure there are definitely instances where like that was you know the way that a situation needed to be handled or something but it's also like there are i don't know i mean i think like it's reasonable to like talk about if like you know like like if this impulse to like pile on people like can also be a harmful one because to me it seems pretty clear and it's hard because people exploit like i always think about people always like exploit like that it's a witch it's a witch hunter it's a witch trial and i'm like i hate that it's exploited like every time someone's in trouble like oh that's a it's a what is it term witch hunt is that what i say yeah but it's like but i also think to myself i'm like we should remember we are the same creatures
Starting point is 01:09:28 who did the salem witch trials and we we are inclined to gather and and focus on and shame and and it's like the promise is exploited by a lot of the worst people to get out of their things but it's still true yeah we're still the same people that did the Salem witch trials. DNA wise, we're the same, we're the same brains. Yeah. Well, let's go to our, this has got to stop. This has got to stop. This has got to stop. And I think we could just do Kate for today.
Starting point is 01:09:55 Great. You were the first guest, this is how I know you're studious, I'm sure you got good grades. You wrote me to see if your, this has got to stop was appropriate or right for the episode and i was like yes i have gotten so many terrible things oh nice please so it was it was a wonderful one please what has got to stop okay so my this has got to stop is unicorn
Starting point is 01:10:16 hunting do you guys know what that is no okay so unicorn hunting is when an established heterosexual couple like is looking for a bisexual woman to be their third and i'm not saying that all situations where a bi lady has you know sex with like a you know heterocouple or whatever i mean it's not wrong in all instances but there are certain things about unicorn hunting in particular that make it really creepy is like just um you know really like having uh these like super like just really objectifying in the sense that like these like couples are like you know oh we're gonna find a woman who is like you know hot bye babe and she's gonna like follow the rules of our relationship and like she's gonna do what we want but she's not gonna like necessarily have a say in it and just kind of like having this like threesome or even three-way relationship fantasy that is just like not treating queer women like we're actually people and yeah like i so you know i'm bi woman on dating apps
Starting point is 01:11:30 and it's like super frustrating sometimes i have to like sometimes i don't even put that i'm bisexual on there i'll just go through like a month of looking at women and a month of looking at men because if you're bi like these couples message you and my profile I like deliberately say like no couples because these people are so fucking aggressive and a lot of the time it's the woman that is more aggressive like I got this message from this lady a few years ago that was like on okcupid it wasn wasn't like on a King site or anything like that, but it was this woman like describing like this thing, this sexual fantasy where like,
Starting point is 01:12:14 she was like, I'm looking, you know, for someone who will like, basically you would dominate me and then you would submit to my boyfriend. And like, here's how the whole sexual experience would go down. And she kind of like,
Starting point is 01:12:26 she had this whole thing fucking plan of like how a woman, their third or whatever, was going to like slot into this shit. And there was first of all, nothing in my profile that like suggested. Yeah. Like my profile was like about how I like,
Starting point is 01:12:42 liked, you know, the magnetic fields and riding a bike or something like that. That was never one of the OKCupid questions you answered. Like, would you be into dominating the woman? And then. No, it just wasn't a super sexual profile. Like, yeah, they're looking to date, you know. And but also, like, I think the main thing about it is, is like these couples couples they just like they develop this like fantasy
Starting point is 01:13:07 that they want to like put just on random bi women and it's so gross do you think it feels like it feels like too like maybe like in the couple that they're like whenever they they've agreed upon it they're in their heads of like the other person might change their mind we got to do this quick do you know i mean like we gotta we gotta find one quick because before someone people start thinking up over it too much i'm sure that's it like there's like a weird yeah and it's just well there's and it's like they want to have some version of non-monogamy but that they've decided that the version that they will feel safe with is if it's just if it's with the same person who likes them both the exact same amount yeah and it's just if it's with the same person who likes them both the exact same
Starting point is 01:13:45 amount yeah and it's like they play by all the rules yeah and that's not how people are um it's also like yeah i mean it's like it's like going on a first date with an insane number of conditionals yeah like you need to be this and this and this and this is supposed to like let's meet see what if we like each other yeah totally and it's yeah the reason it's called unicorn hunting is because like you know these couples are like looking for like a very attractive bisexual woman who's going to like be equally into both the male and female partner um is going to be like very devoted to them, but also not have any of her own expectations or needs in the relationship.
Starting point is 01:14:29 Do you think this would be solved? Because like in a lot of ways, it sounds like sex work. I mean, it sounds like what they want is, it sounds like an order. It sounds like they're placing an order and they're like, I'd like this, this, this, this, this, and no needs from you.
Starting point is 01:14:45 So it just, part of me is like, oh, in a world where sex work was more available, where people were like, hey, I'll come over and pretend to like the two of you at the same time. I think sex work is available. And I definitely think that that would be like- Unicorn found.
Starting point is 01:15:01 Yeah, I think that that would be one of the most ethical ways, in my opinion, to pursue that type of fantasy. But I think that would be one of the most ethical ways, in my opinion, to pursue that type of fantasy. But I think that a lot of the thing that these couples are looking for is the validation that comes from, oh, we're getting our hot by babe. Which maybe they wouldn't feel that same type of validation if there was like a more explicitly transactional element to it yeah yeah but it's uh do some people ever put in any bi people put in no no couples please i have that all over my profile and people still do that yeah people still couples still message me like i had to put in my profile no couples please like it is this is the experience of bi women on apps it's so gross yeah and um oh a lot of the time like there's here's like another thing too is like uh like a woman will write you and then
Starting point is 01:15:58 like it'll seem like she's just like trying to like start something up with you you know uh but then it turns out that there's like a boyfriend who's like part of the package and that like you know like i would be expected to like also fuck him and be attracted to him or whatever and i'm like this is not no like this is not a package like um just in any case like pursuing someone as a couple is i mean it's just like in in what situation like are people gonna be like you know super fucking attracted to like yeah both people probably not that often i'm sure it happens sometimes but it's not like you're gonna hit it off or be attracted to to more than you, you know, to, to one person more than the other. And there's something super creepy about like,
Starting point is 01:16:48 like the conditional, like, oh yeah, you want me, you like me. Oh, well then you have to fuck him. Like it's gross.
Starting point is 01:16:54 It should be, it should be its own site or its own settings, especially to bring it in later. That is really, really. Well, the thing is, is there's not,
Starting point is 01:17:03 it couldn't be its own site, right? Cause there are very few queer women who, well, then they could at least find that. It. Well, the thing is, it couldn't be its own site, right? Because there are very few queer women who want to be treated this way. Well, then they could at least find that. It feels like it's either a sex work thing or it's truly like you're in a real person setting and the bi woman says to a couple,
Starting point is 01:17:18 hey, I want to fuck you too. And they're like, oh, yeah, we'd like that. If they made a site like that, it would be like, was it Ashley Madison was the site? And they found out it was like 98 bots yeah and they were like yeah you 60 year old guys no one wants to fuck you no one wants you maybe will that be a good way for them to learn maybe i think um well that's that's i wonder well you were talking about being you know 10 years ago i just remember when being, when I went to musical theater camp
Starting point is 01:17:45 and guys either came out as gay or straight and many of them, looking back on it now, I'm like, probably a lot of them were bi. Yeah. We just never really talked about bi.
Starting point is 01:17:54 Yeah. Especially for men, you know. Especially for men. And I, I mean, I think that will be a long, I think that'd be a long road.
Starting point is 01:18:01 Yeah. It's still like, I think. Because I think a lot of straight women will not bi. Will, I think a lot of straight women will not buy... I think a lot of... I mean, this is my opinion. Will be skeptical of a buy man.
Starting point is 01:18:12 I think that that's definitely a thing. But I also think that like... To me, it seems like it's changed a little bit in the past few years. Maybe in our circles though. But like around the world. This fly is killing me. I know.
Starting point is 01:18:27 I just noticed it. You just noticed it? Yeah. Oh, my God. Well, that's very good. Stop with the unicorn hunting. All my bi-couple listeners, let's go to our blessing. Something nice.
Starting point is 01:18:42 Your blessing. This was a nice negative episode episode we can be positive for a second russell you go first i'll go first so i did i i have started working at the comedy cellar uh which feels very lovely um and as always there's like a laundry list of like people who helped uh talk through the set with me of course course, Tova always is a great person. But I also want to give a special shout out to Adam Mueller, who's a great comic, opened for me many times before. I was running this five everywhere.
Starting point is 01:19:15 And Adam would like, I posted on Facebook any mics the day of, the day of the audition. And he like knew someone who ran a mic and reached out to that person to get them to write me. He'd do five minutes really quick at 5.30. And it's rare for comics to do that. But everyone's been super sweet. Every comic's been really nice about it.
Starting point is 01:19:38 And there's just moments as a comedian where you do feel that people who are real comics, who really are in it, who love jokes, who love standup go like, Hey, congrats. You deserve this.
Starting point is 01:19:50 And it feels really, really nice. So I'm still just definitely riding the high right now. That's awesome. Congratulations. Thank you. Um, Russell do a bus.
Starting point is 01:19:59 Yes. Um, you're going to see me tonight. I'm going to see, yeah, I'm going to see you in two hours. Um, uh, I'm excited to go. I've never been to the comic seller
Starting point is 01:20:07 but no I have had like a really long I feel like creative drought and then this past week I feel like I got to do like all of a sudden I was like I have a couple sketches I'm writing for Uncle Function that I'm excited about and
Starting point is 01:20:24 I got to play music with friends yesterday. And I hadn't done that probably since last. Like just hang out and listen to music? Well, no. Like we, you know, I have a, Jen and Tim, I play. Like we write music together. And what do you play when you do that? I have a Korg synthesizer.
Starting point is 01:20:44 And Tim plays guitar. Jen sings. That's so fun. write music together and what do you play when you do that uh i have a korg synthesizer and tim plays guitar and sings a little what we you know but we have we there's no like there what's great about it is a creative project where there's no sort of like goal of like we're gonna be rock star it's truly like just fun and uh and but i haven't done it in months and months and months and months so it was it was i had so much fun I wish I could do that. I'm the guy that's like, you know, guys, I think we might be the most talented band in the world.
Starting point is 01:21:12 I will probably record something at some point, like just cause we have all the equipment for it and stuff. And, uh, but, uh, that's wonderful. It's,
Starting point is 01:21:20 I was, it's been a good week in terms of like finally feeling like coming out of a weird, it's scary. Those long spells sometimes being like, feeling like coming out of a weird. It's scary. Those long spells sometimes being like, I, nothing's funny to me. Nothing's interesting.
Starting point is 01:21:29 You know? So good. And Kate, do a blessing. Um, well, the thing that I would like normally talk about, which is like two cliche is my cats.
Starting point is 01:21:39 I love them so fucking much, but I'm going to go with essential oils. A lot of people, uh, make fun of women for liking these but i honestly think that it is super fucking great to make your whole house or your bath smell like lavender or whatever it's not expensive you can get like a huge bottle of something that smells amazing and will make your house smell amazing for like less than $10 and it will last forever. And it's like dramatically improves your quality of life. And I think people should stop making fun of this. Is this the one with the sticks coming out? Like you can, you can do that.
Starting point is 01:22:16 Um, I have a diffuser, which is like this little, it's basically like a humidifier, like a tiny, tiny humidifier that like emits like mist. I also like to take baths with like a little like lavender drops in there. I love a bath. Yeah, it's nice, right? I need to get this. You're right. It's one of these, my lifestyle is just like, I'll wait till it smells and then I'll spray Febreze.
Starting point is 01:22:39 As opposed to like, let's have it and be nice. Nicole uses the thing. It is not. It does. it is one of those things where you're like it gets made fun of a lot but it that makes things smell good you know cvs are we talking or like do i have to go to bed bath and beyond um so i buy there's like an oil shop like near my house um that is i don't know like to get it. I think you can get essential oils at farmer's season stuff sometimes.
Starting point is 01:23:11 And probably even Target. But the place that I go to is pretty cheap. But yeah, I feel like they have them in every kind of... I'm going to try it for this room. If you live in New York City, there's got to be a billion oil shops. Sure, there's a lot on the street. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:23:30 And, oh my God, is that To tova i think tova's coming over um is there anything you want to plug kate um i have a podcast called reply guys and i have a book out on audible called dirtbag anthropology which is a memoir slash collection of interviews on the topic about masculinity and i think it's it's fun and funny it's not it's not uh it's wait a second can you let tovin yeah oh yeah shit the top like side uh and this is available on what audible on audible yeah um and you did this over the pandemic right yeah and it was just an audiobook yeah okay cool it's it's definitely very audio like focused it's like lots of there's lots of interviews and stuff in it kind of it has podcast elements to it perfect tova no it's okay do you want to say hi what yeah shout out no no you can come in. Shout out to Tova.
Starting point is 01:24:27 No, we were truly just saying. I was telling them all about the ticket thing. Come to the mic. Come to the mic. I was telling them all about the ticket, the tickets and the, that I bought the tickets. And then the next day we got the free tickets. It was actually kind of romantic
Starting point is 01:24:39 because I got you something. It was like a side gift, but I got you a yoga mat towel that you'd already gotten yourself. Not the primary gift, to be clear. Don't worry, don't worry. But it was like we each got each other something that the other one was already getting themselves, which I think is romantic.
Starting point is 01:24:54 That we already know each other enough that we're... It's like that Christmas... What's that Christmas tale where they buy... Gift to the Magi. They buy the comb. Someone buys the comb for the hair. They sold the hair for the watch. Exactly. But the real gift was the love that they had for each other. Exactly, except the one I bought. Well, the gift was the mat and the tickets, which is even better.
Starting point is 01:25:11 Yeah, the one I got was $17.99. And the one you got, when you listen to this episode, you'll find out what they cost. Yeah, but you're very pretty, so that's the way. Oh, my God. Where's the camera? Can you see me yeah there it is
Starting point is 01:25:26 okay here you go Russell did you want to plug anything Russell this will be after Uncle Function yeah so we may have a show
Starting point is 01:25:32 in December no December but I don't know the date yet for it yeah alright I'm not sure when this is coming up but I'm pretty sure
Starting point is 01:25:38 it will be I'm headlining again a DC comedy loft the weekend Thanksgiving weekend one show on Friday two shows Saturday I'll be posting the comedy seller dates
Starting point is 01:25:48 I'll be in Laugh Boston in December find me on Instagram and for god's sakes join the fucking Patreon if you listen to this goddamn fucking podcast please join the Patreon Russell and I release
Starting point is 01:26:04 strategy meeting and this is really working. This is good. Russell and I, we release early episodes, two bonus episodes a month. Once we get to 100, we're going to release four a month. Oh my God.
Starting point is 01:26:14 Maybe eight. We'll see how this goes. It's a lot of fun. You get to support the podcast and just remember, no matter how many essential oils you buy, ultimately, nothing will be able to overpower the smell of your rotting corpse. This is the downside.
Starting point is 01:26:31 And hell. Downside you you you

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