The Downside with Gianmarco Soresi - #56 Buddy the Man with Jonothon Lyons

Episode Date: December 14, 2021

Jonothon Lyons AKA Buddy the Rat joins us to discuss the downsides of humorous urologists, interactive vs immersive shows, missing the end of Sleep No More, college science classes inspiring you to leave religion for drugs, joining Blue Man Group with no discernible drumming skills, whether theater degrees are worth it, the struggles of copyrighting art, and Buddy’s first appearance where he was utterly naked with his poor brother in the audience. You can watch full video of this episode HERE! Join The Downside Patreon for early ad-free episodes the Friday before they're released on Tuesday, two BONUS episodes a month (AUDIO & VIDEO), + the good feeling inside that you're helping keep my delusions alive. Follow BUDDY THE RAT (JONOTHON LYONS) on tiktok & instagram Get BUDDY THE RAT merch here Follow GIANMARCO SORESI on twitter, instagram, tiktok, & youtube Check out GIANMARCO SORESI's special 'Shelf Life' on amazon & on spotify Subscribe to GIANMARCO SORESI's mailchimp Follow RUSSELL DANIELS on twitter & instagram E-mail the show at [e-mail] Produced by Fawn Sullivan, Paige Asachika, & Gianmarco Soresi Video edited by Spencer Sileo Special Thanks Tovah Silbermann Part of the Authentic Podcast Network Original music by Douglas Goodhart Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wow, that was such a smooth playback. I thought it was live. Yeah, thank you very much. Welcome, everybody. Welcome to The Downside. If we sound a little flustered, it's because my co-host likes to cut it close. And normally we have stand-up comedians,

so they get there late to begin with. I think you've... But no, we're here with a man of the theater. And this man shows up early. Early, and you're 15 minutes late. I was panicked. We're going to have man of the theater. And this man shows up early. Early and you're 15 minutes late. We're going to have to recreate the whole conversation we just had on the podcast. I'm so sorry. Get ready for some acting chops.

I'm so sorry. I wrote it in wrong. You wrote it in wrong? Well, so it's in my phone, right? Uh-huh. So that's why. But this morning I had a lot of work stuff before. So I wrote like a little to-do list. write uh-huh so that's what i so but i this morning i had a lot of work stuff before so i

wrote like a little to-do list and on the to-do list was to leave at 1 15 because i always give myself an hour and 15 minutes um but that was for a 2 30 go not a 2 p.m go and so i was basing my whole day around this to-do list that was just like a note i wrote for myself and then i got on the train and i realized that i was like oh i'm i it's in 25 minutes and i'm i was like at my stop you know it takes a big man to not lie no i'm being fully honest it was incompetence not the train the trains the trains were running smooth you know honestly and i probably would have been here five minutes later if i just stayed on the train because i took me forever to get a u up to where I was, and it was just...

Who hasn't taken a cab? How often has it actually been the trains for you guys? Oh, you know, that's fair. I think probably 15% of the time I say it is. That's pretty good. I've been much more honest about it post-COVID than I used to be. I used to use the trains all the time. I always made it a point. I use it a lot, especially for comedy shows,

but with my therapist, I always want to be like, I don't want to lie to my therapist, not even small lies. So I really fight to be honest with her. Like I didn't leave because I didn't care enough to be here on time. And she's like, okay, let's talk about that. Every session starts with that. Well, welcome. My name is Jermarcus Serezi. This is The Downside. I'm here with my co-host, Russell Daniels.

And we are joined by, what's the term you like most? The title for what I do? The title for what you do. Yeah. I guess in this context, I'm a social media content creator. I mean, I prefer, I'm an actor and a producer and a writer. Yes. But, you know, what has made me relevant is making TikToks. All you kids studying acting, what you're really studying is how to someday just make a couple fucking TikToks. This The Downside. One, two, three. Downside. You're listening to The Downside.

The Downside. With Gianmarco Ceresi. Welcome to The Downside. I'm very happy. You're looking around everything okay? Well, when you introduced yourself earlier, it sounded like a different pronunciation than I was saying in my head. What were you saying in your head? You just put your names together so fast. Sure, sure. That I thought then your first name was John Marcus or something. Oh,

I have to say it fast because sometimes I tell people my first name and they think I'm giving them my full name and they think I'm being overly formal. And then I, if I could just go by Joe Marco, it's my fantasy. I've heard people call you Gian Marco. Gian. Yeah. Well, so my dad for my whole life pronounced it Gian Marco. And then I met an Italian once and they're like, that's not how you say that. And my dad was like, yeah, I just liked it more than Gian Marco. And it's really embarrassing to like go back and correct people the pronunciation. So were you saying it too? Gian Marco?

Yeah. That's how I introduced myself. When did you turn? Like, when did you stop? I think I saw probably in like in college where you get to reintroduce yourself. That is very late. You're like, okay, we get to restart. And that's when I said no more nicknames.

People always go, can I call you GM? And I'm like, I can't, because if you do it, I'll never get called Gianmarco again. GMG is what I did in high school when I was goth. I've had to fight against John tooth and nail my whole life to this day when you do Starbucks do you do Jonathan? yeah I say Jonathan I always introduce as Jonathan

and then sometimes Jono or Jono that nickname came up I was like okay I can go with that you like Jono? yeah sure that's okay I just don't prefer John and never did really yeah and

yet it's a default thing i mean people instantaneously it's one of those jonathan's one of those names where they just john you right away yeah and you i like calling you uh asshole so i wanted to i have a lot i don't know if you have anything to talk about but i have a had a big morning i've had i hope this isn't too graphic but it's true so i've had i work out i don't know if you've watched the video of this podcast i work out and uh i'm so nervous no so i've been having like a very a dull pain in uh my right ball okay and so it was like and i got it the first doctor first doctor said, fine. Got an ultrasound. They said it's fine. But I once had a paraumbilical hernia from CrossFit,

and the ultrasound also said there was no hernia. So I'm a little skeptical. And so I went to, I think, a urologist today. You think? You think you went? No, no, I definitely went. I definitely went. I think they were a urologist.

Yeah, I was confused that we were doing it in a back alley, but he said he was a urologist. And it's very funny because it's very similar. It's all at NYU Langone or whatever, and they're all these, it's like the same kind of Jewish doctor. I'm Jewish. And it's the moment they hear I'm a stand-up comedian,

they ask you, what do you do? I didn't volunteer it. I didn't walk in. Hey, I'm a stand-up comedian, so make sure you take a good look at these uh he immediately they're they're especially the the older jewish men they want to talk about comedy and he's like oh you ever get scared uh before you go on stage and i was like i'm more scared i have cancer in my ball but but you're sure being on stage is a little scary too and he told it was very funny because he said oh i i have a lot of stand-up comedians and i said oh i bet have a lot of stand-up comedians

and i said oh i bet they're talking about you on stage he's like yes on the podcast there's so many of them have erectile dysfunction and it was one of those where i'm like i don't know i don't know if you should be telling me that and he talked about he yeah he goes to the he said yeah i can go to the comedy so i get free tickets whenever i want and then i'm like now you're narrowing it down yeah you're like i know some of these men i would hey i i was this close to be like come on tell me who's got the right to dysfunction and all these he's one of these doctors he has i think we talked about my other doctors same thing big sense of humor a lot of jokes uh and i can't tell if i like it or not because i'm like nervous and maybe it's diffusing

me but sometimes then i'm like okay i need you to be serious for this question yeah uh and he like before so basically we're figuring it out but he he was like i could give you an injection in the ball what would it do for what what's some well you know what it is whenever i go to these doctors i'm always like really invested i'm like i want to know what it is? Whenever I go to these doctors, I'm always really invested. I'm like, I want to know what's wrong. And the moment they start getting into the science, I fucking zone out. And then they get to the end and they're like, so what do you want us to do? I'm like, yeah, the shot.

Something about it's like a numb thing. And if the pain goes away, it means it's probably like go see a sports person. If the pain doesn't go away, we need to investigate further. Just the concept is giving me pain. Yeah, he said it didn't he said it wouldn't hurt and he was this time It was true. Just a little a little prayer. You got it. Yes, you got a shot in your ball Yeah, yeah, I got a shot my ball and it was one of those like when you see in the ball In the actual ball in the in the like the tether. Yes. Okay Heather to the ball. In the actual ball. In the tether. Yes, okay. The tether to the ball.

It all sounds painful. It doesn't sound like... It was fine, though. It was fine, though. Is there a numbing cream? There was a numbing spray. Oh, okay. He kept saying the whole time, he said, if this was your elbow, you wouldn't give it a second thought.

So think of your balls like your elbow. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you see the needle? I didn't look. Okay? I didn't look. Okay, that's... I didn't look, and right before he gave it, he said...

What kind of position were you in? Doggy style. Right before he gave it, right before he gave it, he said, don't call out another urologist's name while I give this to you. Oh!

And, uh... Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I thought that was a good joke. um it seems to be fine i walked out of there and uh we'll see this was like 9 15 it was it was one of these things you call and they're like the next appointments february 23rd 2023 and you're like is there any way it's luckily someone can't i don't think it's ball cancer i think you're too old for the average of people who get ball cancer. But then you Google it. You could still get it. Yeah, for sure.

It's also one of these things like my dad and I, we have a tough relationship, but I'm like, I need to sit down. I've been needing to do this for years. Sit down and be like, who died of what in the family? I need a list. I want to know what everyone died of. Especially him, his health problems. I don't think he likes talking about it. I'm like, well, I need to know for everyone died of especially him his health problems I don't think he likes talking about it I'm like well I need to know yeah for me so that's my story I figured talking

because you do so much physical work you must have had a boatload of injuries in your life not so much really and that's a super common question is like why how were your knees doing how are your back doing how is was this? How was that? How old are you? Do you mind saying? I'm 39. I'll be 40 in January, which is mystifying to me as much to me as everybody else I interact with, too. I get about 10 years younger is what people think.

That's good. It's great. Yeah, it's a little confusing. It's a little bit wasted for someone wearing a mask all the time. This is true. Yeah. And also people think I'm like 19, like I'm on tissue running around in a costume,

an animal costume. So it's really hard to, to like track my actual age to what I'm doing. Wait, John Marker, you should explain to the viewers. Oh yes.

Of course. Of course. You'll see in the picture, we did a whole, while you were here, we did a whole photo shoot and a film shoot of Buddy the Rat arriving at the studio. Really, really incredible. I'm sorry, I missed that.

And right now, you're very big everywhere as Buddy the Rat. You've probably seen it on Twitter, on TikTok, on everything. I first think I saw the one with you is the rat dragging the pizza. Yeah, yeah. Recreating the pizza rats. And then just the ones of you on the subway. I retweeted one way back. It was you on the subway.

And I said, that's the smallest rat I've ever seen. And it didn't do well. But I still, I saw it and I engaged and promoted the brand. I appreciate it. No, that's what I need is engagement. Yeah, it was good. The pizza one was, uh, New York. Nico had reached out to me to meet up. I had maybe one or two viral before that. And he said, come and join me and bring your pizza slice.

And then he filmed that, got that moment of the guy stepping out of the way. Yeah. Which matter, which matters, which makes it a moment I've i've since learned too i can there's so much footage of me as the rat and there was one that was really popular because no one had seen it before yeah that you've seen it it in and of itself is no longer interesting sure sure it has to be about some interaction that happens yeah how people behave and so tell me i uh it's hard to know where to start but i i do think we should with with the rat when did you start when was the first time you came up with this 2009 yeah it's way older than people think were you in new york at the time i had moved to

new york right after college 2005 and then my first professional job was with a theater company that does this kind of stuff i was in in a show called Frogs. And we were literally frog characters on the stage. Big paper mache masks, full body costumes, extreme body movement. We were frogs and alligators and penguins. Was it like just a movement show? Yeah, yeah. No dialogue.

It was these three to five minute sequences of animal creature characters. Where was it playing? Portland,regon is where the theater is based but they would do a national tour every year we went to china with it they've been like all over the world wow so i was doing that for two years and then coming back and forth to new york and obviously you live in new york you hang out with rats all the time of course yeah it's not a lie people i know you don't like talking about shit about new york i don't think

it's just a part of the thing. There are so many rats. I've had, I've had a rat run into me twice and it's a real sensation. Like bump into your foot. I've had one run over my foot before. Yeah. Yeah. And over my foot.

And it's like, when he hit my leg, it's, it's a thick piece of meat. It's like, it's felt like a leg slapping mine. Oh, because squirrels don't run onto you generally.

Yeah. And there's a lot of squirrels. I think some people get bit like now and then. Oh, God. And you have to get checked for rabies. Squirrels seem aware of what they're doing more than rats. Rats always are running from something. They're kind of involved in themselves.

New York City rats are like New York City people walking around. They're like preoccupied with the business they're on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we have, I mean also, I don't think people who don't live in New York understand the trash situation either.

The like gigantic piles of bags of trash. I don't even understand what we're doing. Is it twice a week that's what they do? Well, I don't know. Whenever trash days are,

especially really big apartment buildings. Yeah. And sometimes the bag, a bag will be trembling and alive with like 20 rats inside. We get raccoons because we're by a big park up in Wood Hill Park.

And it's so funny. At night, you'll see them come from across the street to the park, like 20 of them. And they'll be in the trees. And the whole bags get ravaged. So a raccoon in the trees? Oh, they climb the trees. Yeah, there's like 20 of them. And it's before I've come across it with the dog

and they'll get a little spooked and they'll run up the tree and just wait for you to pass and then come back down the tree. But there's tons of them. And you'll hear them. I don't know if it's... They're so surprising because they're so big. They're huge. I think it's almost like that. You're like, wow, human

beings, we can't stop this. No. Like you think about all the ways human beings try to control nature. And then you're like, these gigantic, bigger than dog-like creatures thrive. Well, one time I was in Astoria and I was sitting on my stoop and I was on my phone. I was waiting for a roommate or something to come down. We were going somewhere. And this is a part of Astoria where there wasn't really a park close by there was a lot of you know houses and i looked to my left because there was a

garbage can out in front right by the stoop and i looked to my left and i had been really still on my phone and and i hadn't really looked up in a long time and like three feet from me was the biggest possum i'd ever seen like with its paw with i don't know their paws hands your paws i think not hands well they look like you know they're like yeah they look like hands but uh on top of this of the garbage can like that's how big it was that it could reach the top of the garbage can from the ground and it was just like and it like just turned and looked at me and it was so close and i was like where do you live like you're was like, where do you live? You're so big. Where do you live in the

middle of Astoria? It was wild. So you did this show and you're playing a frog. Yeah. And 20 other animals. Not a rat. What did you go to college for? Acting. And were you doing movement? Were you a dancer as a kid?

What are you? Traditional theater kid go to college for acting and were you doing movement were you a dancer as a kid like were you what are you traditional theater kid growing up uh-huh musical theater plays yeah when I was seven years old my mom had me enter a playwriting contest that I tied with a high school senior and they produced my play and then when I was nine I did Rumpelstiltskin at the community theater and then I was just totally hooked. I've been blessed with a vision for my life, right? I was like, I want to be an actor. This is the thing.

I knew right away. And then I went to Performing Arts High School. And then- Which high school? Arizona School for the Arts. Okay. And it's a charter Performing Arts High School in Arizona that's still active. It started in the early 90s and it's still going strong.

that's still active. It started in the early 90s and it's still going strong. And then I got an acting scholarship to Arizona State where I went 2000 to 2004. And when did you realize that you were like really good physically? So at the end of,

about halfway through college, I had kind of a mental breakdown, classic college. Also, I had never, I didn't drink or do drugs till i was 20 yeah in the middle of college and then i did a lot and kind of had the total what made you wait that long uh i was super religious uh-huh i was like a hardcore christian kid and stopped you know just that that time in college yeah time in college. What made the shift? Science classes.

In college? In college, yeah. College-level science classes. Do you remember, was there any specific lesson? Was it biology? Biology, geology, and psychology the same semester. And my geology teacher, one of them, I think the biology teacher would put little subtle digs on religion

every once in a while. He'd just be like, I'm not trying to convince anybody, but the Pope even says that evolution is consistent with modern religious belief you know like yeah it was dropping little things and uh yeah i remember it just was the unraveling it was like waking up from the matrix kind of thing did it did it make you sad uh no in retrospect a little bit only because i was unmoored i like got rid of my entire I was like blank slate and then had some bad influence people around me who were like try drug you know don't have anything to define your life by now try drugs sure yeah so and that it was like fun and crazy

but also dangerous you know I had a lot of close calls and when I look back on my early 20s I do think it slowed me down I you know I was lucky to get a couple jobs like cool shows yeah it must have been a necessary a part of my development because I'm happy with where I am now like a cool place and you always as you get older I think you understand more it's pointless to regret the past because if you enjoy what's going on now every piece of the puzzle matters i i agree sorry that's a pretty positive thing to say no no no that's good no i agree because i i think a lot having gone to college for musical theater and like being a singer so intensely for so long and then not being a singer there's times i go fuck man i wasted a lot of time in a vocal booth a hot vocal

booth doing scales two hours a day and and then there's you know i go well maybe i wouldn't have become a stand-up comedian i wouldn't get to do this no that doesn't know russell but uh but just you just wasted that time like would you be funnier with that extra couple of years of trying out jokes? Sure. I'd be further along. Who knows? Who knows? Who knows?

I'm amazed at successful 20-year-olds. I know. 22-year-old movie stars. I'm like, how do you do an interview? Sometimes I am and sometimes I'm not. Sometimes I'm like, there's like a, you a you were kind of like you know some people are like in every field are like picked to be like you know i mean like we're like look we made this pop star that you just are all gonna like eat now like we're you know like so i do feel like sometimes that happens with actors too

once in a while you see like a kid actor and you're like that's insane what they're what they're doing like what they can tap into as a kid and then it doesn't always translate later on but britney spears is a perfect example where like i i again i was never i could never have been a pop star but i like i like to dance i'm not good at dancing i like to sing i'm not great at singing but like i look at that i'm like oh what a cool fucking life she was like doing the coolest moves singing the songs and then you see her talk on instagram video and i'm like, whew, that took a toll. It did take a toll. You were tired.

You were just in a conservatorship. You just got out. We'll see if it goes well. We'll see. But I'm so nice comforted when I see people who are kid stars kind of unravel. Yeah. Well, kid stars is a different thing than early 20s. Yes.

Or mid-20s success yeah sure i know there's something when someone knows exactly what they want to do and and and how to like and they have the ability to do it yeah when they're in their 20s you're like wow that's good for you because i felt like there's a whole 10 years where i was like i don't know you know like still like not knowing i just didn't believe it was possible. It took me my entire 20s to start to understand that I can just be successful like anybody else. Yeah. If that makes sense.

I think it was people I was around. I think it was a bit like, I don't know, you're going to get to the thing that I hate or something. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And it's really a cynicism. It's as ironic as that is to say, as I've gotten older, I have fewer and fewer friends my age.

And I'm finding myself spending a lot of time with people in their mid-20s, early mid-20s. And I think it's mostly because of their attitudes. They're just naturally more positive and expecting good things to come. And I found that artists my age or as they get older, when you haven't really broken through or super successful, everything is laced with cynical hatred of the whole business they're a part of or something. See, well, I have to defend cynicism because this is the downside.

But there's a mix. Well, you can claim, I don't know if I'm a cynic or if I'm a pessimist because I do think those are distinct things. I think like pessimism is like predicting,

anticipating the worst and predicting the worst or knowing the way human beings work. And cynicism feels like a certain degree of defeat you've given up or like there is no point.

I think that's the difference what would you call me because i consider myself sometimes a cynic sometimes i don't think you're a cynic i think you can be neg i mean you have a podcast that's celebrating the negativity but i i also think that i think you are an optimist but i think an optimist who can be often pessimistic uh so you can be like i don't know about like you can you can like relish in the negative things. But I don't think you're I don't think you're saying like I don't think you don't believe that there's a possibility or potential for. I couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't do all the things that we we do.

But I also think positivity can be crazy because I also think especially in our industry, some actors can be positive about their situation. And I'm like, you shouldn't be positive because you're being exploited. You have an agent who has not thought about you for three years that you need to leave. You think you're going to be a tenor and you're actually a baritone and you're never going to get a part doing this.

Is John Marco talking to his past self? I literally am like, they're all my things. Where I think sometimes in the acting industry, positivity is dangerous. Or, you know, again, we're talking in big grand things, but I mean delusion, I guess. And I feel like so many things would consider my wasted years was just like pursuing television and film where I thought I was making progress by doing these classes, by being a reader. And then I run into a cast director. I did free. I read for them for free for auditions for a year.

And then they don't know who I am. And I go, if I had been more cynical or pessimistic, I would have been like. Or more memorable. It might have been more cynical or pessimistic. It would have been like. Or more memorable. If you were. Oh, your brand is positivity, huh?

Or, you know, good or talented. Like what you do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. I don't have that problem. So you're in college. You're a mess. You're drinking.

You're smoking. Who knows? Yeah, the last few years. But the interesting thing was I had this sort of break with traditional acting, psychological narrative acting. I did a couple of plays. I think David Mamet played Sexual Perversity in Chicago and something else. Good play. And I was just not there.

I was on stage. I've been doing it my whole life. And for the first time, I was not able to do it. I was, I mean, the audience, it seemed to be working okay on the outside, but I wasn't feeling it. And so I made this distinct choice. And I went, I came to New York. I had seen De La Guarda and Slava's Snow Show and Blue Man Group. And I saw, I was seeing these shows that were blowing my mind that were totally not they were every bit theater performance but totally not psychological acting also seeing plays i was just bored to death i was like i don't i can't stand i don't want to sit and watch people sitting around a table talking yeah i'm just spent the day talking to people what's the point i've changed since and i love traditional theater again but

at the time i made this distinct choice I want to be a physical performer I didn't quite know what that meant or if there was any potential for work and luckily after a year in New York this theater company Imago Theater had held auditions and I booked it and I was a part of that company for four years were you were you an athlete were you I mean you clearly no total theater kid yeah total drama geek that's amazing i was so i was proud of myself for like like sneakily getting out of pe in junior high yeah by interning for the first the drama teacher and then the shop teacher i gotta like wow yeah i didn't have to do a pe credit because i was like the assistant to the shop teacher or something. I hated sports and I hated PE and I hated, I since regret that.

In my late 20s, I was turned on to exercise and fitness and it totally changed my life. And now I'm like, I think about the body I have and what could have happened. I mean, I could have probably been a really good athlete in high school and college. Sure. I just had zero interest you know they look i i started working out way later in life and i'm like there's something about the whole system it just it never appealed to me yeah i look back now and i'm like i could have liked basketball what sport do you think you would have played if you could go back i think i did the ones i did i

played football and i and i and i was on the track team throwing stuff. Do you ever see a football game and think like, oh, how cool would it be to be down there? I initially missed it for like two or three years right after high school. I missed the feeling of being on a team and doing a physical thing. It's different. And winning. The feeling of you do something and then you...

It was a real like you know you're you're it's very you know you get so tired from doing this thing but you're doing with everyone else but i i after a few years i didn't i don't i don't like feel that anymore you know i feel like i don't know yeah i don't know about team sports like i do think i got that all the camaraderie and and teamwork from theater yeah but just working out just making your body a little better yeah no one told me it was it would be a good thing as an actor yeah and then I started working out and suddenly I go to auditions and I'm just confident I don't have to fight it you know I don't have to like get myself hyped up I'm like

I'm the thing they're looking for like it just something about it did you just go i started with p90x like that was truly the thing that like hooked me i it's pretty good story for me i got i went on a tour of a show called dinosaur petting zoo uh-huh with uh two it was an australian puppet company that has this 15 foot long baby t-rex puppet and i got hired to be the t-rex and it's like a 90 pound puppet and i was okay strong but i went on tour with these two australians and the thing they did every day was go to the gym and work out and so the first couple days i went with them and it was super sore and then the next day like we're going back you can i was like i'm gonna go did you have any days you were so sore

you could barely puppeteer the first day but then then i got up from it and then since we were on tour for six weeks and it was just the three of us i just started going with them all the time and it just they you know they taught me how to how to work out how to do things yeah and i don't know it's just i don't know so you're learning all this movement and puppeteering like on the fly kind of yeah yeah yeah it's interesting because i do a lot of work in puppetry and i didn't i came at it from acting you know i spent all my training was was in acting and theater but i never expected to become a puppeteer or a mask theater performer or physical performer so it's all been learned from actually doing it. It's interesting because I feel like puppeteering,

like, again, they have these arts majors now, but they're pretty broad. They're theater, musical theater. And I know a couple, I auditioned for Hand of God and I worked with puppeteer on the callback. And it was a similar story where she was an actor and all of a sudden now she's a puppeteering person that because there's not as clear cut a,

you know, you go to college for it you the people find it later there's not as many people who have been puppeteering since they were 10 yeah not as many but there are and there's a degree uconn that has a degree in puppetry really yeah and a lot of professional puppeteers in the city went there oh i wonder if it's emerson has a comedy major now that was a big thing I have no problem with these majors but I don't think most of them have professors qualified to have people enter

the workforce today these professors don't know TikTok for example that's my only problem with arts degrees where like I just I think you can teach a lot of things but if you're not preparing them for like the business part of it, you're taking too much money for what you're setting kids up for. That's my thesis about college stuff. So you do this, you're part of, what was the name of the company?

Amica? Imago. Imago. Imago Theater, yeah. I did a commercial audition for an insurance company called Amica. Imago. Yeah. No puppets involved.

Except for me, I guess, a corporate show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then when did you get to do the Blue Man Group? Well, real quick. Oh. Yeah, lead us there. 2009. Yeah, summer of 2009,

this opportunity came up to do a 10-minute play, and I said, oh, I'll do this rat idea that I have. And luckily, I was in a position with this company in Portland. I said, hey, I want to make a mask. What do I need? And'll do this rat idea that I have and luckily I was in a position with this company in Portland I said hey I want to make a mask what do I need and I go get this kind of clay get this kind of paper this is how you make the paper mache so I was I had the people around me to teach me how to do it I tried my hand on it the mask turned out cool no hold up were you good at arts and crafts before no not really that's a surprise yeah that's making that's a total surprise rat, it would be the worst.

This was the first mask? Total lucky. This is the third. I didn't notice that. Well, it's so funny because Russell asked me, he's like, is he going to bring the mask? And I was like, oh, I don't want to impose. I don't want to be like, bring the mask. But hopefully he will.

And you did. This is the third iteration of the mask. The first one was a lot smaller. It didn't quite fit over my head. The eyes didn't blink. It didn't have these features that I always wanted it to have. What improvements did you... So it was too small?

It was too small, yeah. What are you seeing out of? That's the most common question, I guess. So boring. No, it's true, but no matter how many times I answer... The mouth. I'm wearing it on the top of my head. So that's another reason why it's kind of scary looking when I'm down in that position.

Yeah. Because it looks like my spine is attached to my skull at the back of my skull. Not like a human. And how do you, just technical questions. How do you blink? Like, how do you control that the blinking there's a line attached to the eyes so i don't actually it doesn't happen live very much i put it in a couple of film projects and a couple tiktoks and stuff here and there uh i'll demonstrate

for you ready wow it's cool right so you made this yeah i made it that. That's incredible. But you clearly are good at arts and crafts too. This thing I got lucky at though. I'm not a proper sculptor. And I recently tried to make a replica, like freehand sculpt. I was looking at it from every angle. And it's so hilarious, this new... It's not this character.

It's like everything's slanted to the left. And he looks like his slow cousin. Because I'm not a real... When they got shot in a trap at a baby someone who's a real sculptor would be able to recreate this you know i couldn't i couldn't sculpt a face or something i'm looking at it just for whatever reason this rat character came out of me and then i did uh a 10 minute play 10 minute play just a one-nighter yeah like one-nighter thing. Filmed it. And it was hardcore performance art, too. I come out naked.

The rat is naked. Eats a person. Eats the brain. And then gains consciousness. And then sees the audience. And then puts on clothes. You were naked. Yeah.

Naked. It was a naked performance art piece. Listen, I think you've done well on tiktok and i had no idea fans would be fantastic i had no idea this would ever be a thing furthest thing from my mind that this would be popular so when you did the 10 minute thing was there other shows around that like was like was it just a to one night only just your thing it was a collection of 10 minute pieces by artists people that you knew yeah yeah like my brother was a few few people wow and this was how'd your brother

if my sister saw me naked or my brother saw me naked that would upset them they've seen me like act out coming on stage but if they saw me naked they would they would not come your siblings didn't see you naked your brother not when i had a big big old bush they saw me in my hairless stage sure i mean it was lit it was dark lighting but the the point is i had no concept of commercial appeal of like why it's like this is gonna be yeah this big thing that makes me famous like i was this this is artistic expression and then we and then i turned it into a full-length play like a 60 it did well like you you were like oh people kind of yeah people were like this is weird and we went to times square to promote the play i wore clothes but this was in 2009 i did the

on the street as as the rat yeah and a dog came up and barked and we filmed it this was this was way before tick tock i don't even think we filmed it. This was, this was way before Tik TOK. I don't even think there was Instagram in 2009. Was there, there was Facebook. I mean, this early, this is maybe my space at this point.

There was Facebook and there was YouTube and we put the video on YouTube. So this like idea of doing it as a viral video thing was there. Did you do well on YouTube? Uh, 70,000 over 10 years. Sure. Hey, blast to the top of the charts. But it was there.

And then it just sat basically on the shelf for 10 years as a concept. And you had the mask in your place? I had the old mask. And then in 2016, 17, I was working on my musical, The Apple Boys. We had talked a little bit about that. Tell us about this log line. It's a barbershop quartet musical set in Coney Island at the turn of the century. And who was in it? Jelani Remy.

Oh, Jelani Remy. We had a production at Hear Arts Center in 2018. Oh, very cool. Friend of ours, yeah. I worked with, Ben Bonama is the name of the composer, wrote all the songs, music and lyrics. David Alpert is the director. The three of us have been working together since its inception in 2016. And that project is all about collaboration like hardcore collaboration the

whole i started to recognize real synergy is super exciting like something this is bigger than the three of us and certainly bigger than me and i also recognize that its success depended upon me continuously shrinking my ego just being like, let's do this in service. So I wanted to do something that I could pour all my ego into that no one could have any say on whatsoever. And so I returned to the rat. I was like, looking back at what I'd done,

I was like, oh, that rat in public in Times Square was like kind of one of the most interesting things I've ever done. So why don't I try that again? And I started building the new mask and thinking about this project and getting it going and then 2020 happened and uh this an online once a week zoom live broadcast show called Eschaton started uh and they recruited a bunch of people from Sleep No More and Company XIV and solo cabaret performers. So every Saturday night, we would do a one-hour show from inside our individual apartments,

and I was doing a rat thing. Speaking or just moving around the apartment? Moving around, yeah, just crawling out. I got to tell you, having done a lot of comedy on Zoom, a movement show on zoom feels like, uh, a tough sell. I think it takes a,

it might take the pressure off of like, cause you're like with, okay. With, with comedy, you're like, you're all used to the experience of being in a room. Take the pressure off people going to the show.

No, but you don't have any like, there's not as much pressure of like an outcome of like, Oh, they're going to laugh or they're going to like, like they might have a lot of different reactions to Buddy the Rat wandering around the thing. Also, the structure of that show was there are 20 things happening.

So if you watch something for like a minute. Oh, you did like a. It's like immersive. Immersive Zoom. Immersive theater on. Oh, that's fun, man. There's a central hub. How did I miss that?

And then you go from room to room to room to room. We all did our best, man. COVID was a tough, tough year. It was cool. I started doing Zoom shows again. Corporate shows have come back. And I was surprised. I'm getting booked for a lot of corporate shows.

And doing these Zoom shows, like after a year kind of off of them, makes me so pro-vaccine. We need to take care of this shit. Zoom corporate shows. Zoom like now. Why'd they go away for a while? Well, because the company's just, because because of the holidays they're doing a lot of events okay and so now they're doing their annual event and they're still not quite ready to gather yeah in person and i think there were a lot of companies especially companies where the the jobs

are spread out over the world where they're like oh this is an easy way to do a thing together instead of a retreat or whatever yeah so i do them some of them of something fun and interesting you might remember bond i give them a show i give them a show uh but it's it can be tough it can be tough to do an hour of clean comedy yeah over zoom when it's clean it becomes even tougher uh real quick let's take a commercial break right here. world, connecting you to qualified professionals via phone, video, or message chat. Let the gratitude flow. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more and save 10% on your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. I am so dreading groceries this week. Why? You can skip it. Oh, what, just like that? Just like that. How about dinner with my third cousin? Skip it. Prince Fluffy's favorite treats?

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me performing at my friend's wedding that we talked about on the show. It's all fun stuff. So join it. Um, backstory guest. Uh, so, so when was Blue Man Group?

Blue Man Group was 2011. Okay. Now, how long had it been running by then? 20 years. That's because I remember seeing... 91. Blue Man Group was one of those things. It's so inventive and then it became so popular

that I almost feel like, no offense, Blue Man Group, it's almost like... cliche at this point, but only because it did so well that now that's like Blue Man Group is now like the touristy thing. But when I saw it when I was a kid, I mean, it blew my mind. Yeah. And talking to the blue people after, they didn't talk, right?

Right. You say after the show and you just stand there. What did you do in the show? I was a blue man. Do you know about the show and you just stand there what did you do in the show like what i was a blue man but um do you know about the show i know do you do you play the do they all play drums is i guess is my question they do all play drums of the original three two of them were proper drummers and one wasn't so they taught him a few easy drum bits through the show so if you get hired and they like you as a performer and you fit the bill, but you're not quite that good of a drummer,

you get cast in the part of that guy. But they still need to test that like you can drum? The very first thing they do with anyone before an audition is, all right,

I'm going to do a rhythm, you do it back for me. Just a basic thing. How complicated? What's the most complicated rhythm you had to do? I mean... I'll hold the mic.

You tap it on the... Okay. Okay. All right. So we wouldn't be Blue Men. That was awful. Any drummer is going to be pissed off about that. I feel like I have so many blue man questions.

Um, you, uh, is there true? Like you have to have something like some measurement of your head. Straight you before you join. There's like some sort of 10 to six one. Okay.

They ask for in auditions, but there's gotta be facial. I'm six four. Yeah. So they sent me to Las Vegas. Oh, they sent the tallest blue men go. because the biggest theater the biggest theater 1800 seat auditorium at the at the venetian if you want to see the big blue man you gotta go to the tallest blue man you go to vegas yeah that's so funny how many people fit in that space in vegas800. And was it sold out every time? 1,800.

Usually the 1,000 at the bottom was sold. That's incredible. Pretty good. Every night you're doing this show? Eight shows a week. Wow. I think we do six or something. How long did you do that for? Just a year.

A year. Yeah, I did training. I did training is two months, then they give you like a trial contract and then they send you to the gig so how how long does it take

to put on the makeup yes that's what I was going to ask about an hour I think do you ever put it on and go like god I fucking I can't

I don't want to do this again there's a it's usually the end of the show and it's kind of a crusty the clown thing where you're just like ah you know

you're going out for meet and greet all the time oh yeah and the meet and greet you're just like ah you know you're going out for meet and greet all the time oh yeah and the meet and greet you're just like you're going to meet that yeah you go out and hang out with the audience to do photos and stuff and you just stand and go like yeah exactly exactly that wow how tall are you i'm six four you should audition have you ever auditioned for them it would take a if i suddenly was like hey russ we're gonna take a couple months off the podcast.

I'm going to Vegas to be a blue man. Go for it. Uh, no, I don't think I ever did. I mean, I'm sure it'd be a blast. I bet you would be, I bet you would.

I had a, I had a, I had a friend audition every year. I felt like he was auditioning for blooming group. And also I was like, I just was like, he can't drum. He just didn't look like a blue man to me.

I was like, I was always, but he had it like in his mind and he would always and if he hears this more power to you every year he'd be like he'd be going out for blue man and i'd be like i just don't know if it's for you you know i mean like he really had no musical like thing at all like where you have to have a little bit of a thing you have to be able to to learn because yes if i had stayed with the company longer i was in lessons i was having drumming lessons yeah i was improving i mean i could see i would love to drum something

about i've never taken drumming but i'm always like that's fun yeah i would enjoy that you know that emerson's offering a blue man major right now yeah they just started um that's and so it's cool it's cool though i am i look to blue man group as a huge mentor to what I'm doing now, too, with Buddy. I'm specifically modeling a lot of what I hope the success of this project to be because they were just scrappy downtown performance artists. They had no idea it would become what it became. When they started the show, it was a three-month run at the Astor Place or something, and they didn't have an understudy because they were the show, it was a three-month run at the Astor Place or something.

Yeah. And they didn't have an understudy because they were just like, we're going to do this for three months and then move on to whatever else our lives. And then it kept staying open. It was an empire. The original three guys did over a thousand performances without all three of them without a break. It wasn't until because they didn't believe anyone else could be a blue man. It would be tough to hire someone who's understudied. Before it's famous, be like, hey, what are you? I'm understudying.

It's called the blue man group. They didn't think. They were just so, you know, it was their thing they'd created. It was really difficult to describe. Yeah. But it was working. And then eventually, and then one of the guys cut his thumb. And his doctor was like, you cannot drum tonight with that thumb.

So they had the the head of the band at the time like the head drummer in the band had been named understudy just because the producer you had to yeah and they were like you're going on like oh no and apparently there's a pretty famous they were recording everything with a vhs camera at the time like every show to look at it afterwards and this was now the first time after two years one of the creators got to watch the show and so he's in the audience i guess they tend they'd like turn the camera to him at the end you see in his face realizing now that it's amazing we can have other people and we can expand and we can grow and how did he cut his like so he got a paper cup no no he's a shop he's built he built the built the instruments and the set pieces and stuff.

They got to make that into a movie where the doctor's like, you can't do Blue Man tonight. I'd love to see the Blue Man biopic. If you drum, you will die. What do the Blue Men do now? I mean, do they just like, they run this empire of Blue Men? The original three guys? Yeah.

Do they ever pop back in to do like, put on the old makeup? Oh, totally. Yeah. They do? They're millionaire philanthropists now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of them's friends with the Dalai L Oh, totally. Yeah. They do. They're millionaire philanthropists now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of them's friends with the Dalai Lama and travels to Nepal. You know, they just do what they want.

That good of friends just visiting frequently. He is. I met him when I was in training 10 years ago. And he's like, I just got back. No, I didn't meet the Dalai Lama. Matt Goldman is our friend. But they opened a school. They opened an elementary school or early education school

that done all sorts of cool that's the kind of people you want getting rich you know some indie some indie theater you didn't know it it's it's so pure because they weren't expecting it there's nothing manufactured about it at this point you're right over time they have continued to polish things and you know now it's become it's such a big money maker like there's definitely this corporate infusion happening uh it's been interesting for me seeing them starting up like their tiktok account this year which i i want to reach out i love them so much but i think there's a little bit you're seeing like a clash of kind of old school,

live theatrical entertainment, trying to, you should reach out. Listen, I sometimes I'll write older comics that I'm friends with. And I'm like, Hey, for the tweets,

no more hashtags. You cannot have five hashtags on every tweet. These days have moved on and it's, you know, it's not easy. I'm sure some of them go, fuck you, but I'm sure in the long run.

Yeah. Yeah. I tell them, I say that tweet you just did was fuck you. But I'm sure in the long run. Yeah. Yeah. I tell them, I say, that tweet you just did was really good. Do it again without the hashtags. Already tweeted, I promise. Yeah.

I feel like that's, maybe you should. Do you know, I just thought of one thing. I would just want, one last thing I want to say about the Blumen. I think it'd be really funny if on like, like April Fool's Day or something, if they just came out in a different color and they didn't say anything, or if one day they just switched,

they just were green all of a sudden and didn't even comment on it. Wouldn't that be kind of funny? Well, if you talk to them, try to pass it on to them. I'll send an email. For sure. No, I did get,

a couple months ago, I did get a call from a man, their social media manager or somebody who was like, hey, I'm just reaching out on behalf of the blue man group to see if you might potentially be interested in a sponsored content collaboration and i was like i'm so excited to hear from you i don't think you know but i was a blue man that's so cool it hasn't it hasn't come about but it was cool that there was they didn't even know you know they were just looking at new york people. So then let's briefly touch on Sleep No More because I love that show.

And again, I thought Sleep No More was just like dancers, like dancers since they were eight. But what were you doing in it? For the most part, 95%. I mean, if you had to explain what Sleep No More is, it's a modern dance show. Yeah. And so the bulk of the performers are Juilliard dancers.

They're really extraordinary there are did you see sleep no more yeah oh like four or five years now were you into it it's okay if no um i here's the thing i i liked it i went with a friend who had an amazing experience i felt like the time i went i kept walking into the same like thing like i somehow got the timing horrible yeah like where i i saw the same thing happen three times and then i missed the big finale somehow i missed i missed the finale too and it was like i was in a room i just felt like i kept wandering in a room where no actors were and i was like opening drawers and like like being trying to i felt like i just the tide was bad at

timing or something happened if you don't know what sleep no more is at home. I love the idea of it. And I loved, I loved the, the feel of it. The aesthetic of it is so cool. It's astounding. It's a,

it's a wild interactive theater piece. Is it two floors or it's like you go to build it. Over a hundred rooms. Over a hundred rooms. You just walk around, you have masks on. If you came with people, you lose them very fast.

And they, they just create, you see people doing these dance scenes and it's king lear no mcbeth it loosely follows mcbeth there's some nudity there's nudity and like for example like some a woman a topless woman who was performing just like took my hand and was like guiding me somewhere and you're just like okay i guess i'm doing this now and um it's so cool if you've never done interactive it's just amazing it was it was it lived up to all the hype but i went early so i was in there for like two and a half hours and

finally i go i'm like let me take a break and that's when after the break 10 minutes later people come out they're like oh my god he hung himself he hung himself same thing i was like what do you mean he hung himself i thought i'll just take a little break and then and everyone came rushing out and they were like having i was like i missed that you mean he hung himself? Same thing. I thought, I'll just take a little break. And then everyone came rushing out, and they were like having, and I was like, how did I miss that? Only at the end. I missed hanging. There's a cycle.

So there's three. You do the cycle three times every night? Maybe, something like that. Yeah. And then at the end, there's a final big moment that if you're not there, baby, you better go back. The whole thing, I mean, it's designed that way, too. And the producers love that.

People complain. There's people who hate it because of their experience because it is possible to kind of get caught in a negative loop too and not see anybody oh i would be wandering around like what performers but what happens is if you go again if you go two or three times you're bound to have some kind of like really extraordinary moment yeah yeah i mean it's just like when we did... We did an interactive show called That Bachelorette Show. Ooh. I think there were much fewer dancers in it.

It was a dreadful parody of That Bachelorette Show. But you could go and not react to anyone. Like you could not see people, you know. Was it interactive or immersive? Because that distinction... I would say it is more assaultive what would you call it where we it was like we were trying to win the the lady's heart and we between each scene there would be just like dance music and we were supposed to walk around

and try to implore them to vote for us i would also say that when it started it only ran for a year and when it started ran for a year uh saturday nights saturday nights say that when it started, it only ran for a year. And when it started. Ran for a year? Saturday nights only. Saturday nights only. When it did run, it started off, everyone was gung-ho. We're going to do this. Everyone was like out interacting, blah, blah, blah. Awesome 80s Prom was the one that preceded it. And Awesome 80s Prom happened to click in.

And it's international. So he thought, the producer thought this would be the new version of that. But I would say like at a certain point in the run, you sometimes come, you'd go backstage and you, all the actors would be there and be like, who is interacting with anyone right now? Cause it was like nightclub. So it's just like DJs playing music and like you'd be wandering around interacting. And then there'd be like be every two or three songs,

there would be some sort of challenge or dance or thing that everyone would do. And the rest of the time, you're kind of like... That's interesting. No, it wasn't. But it is how we met. It is. It's one of those examples.

It was totally, totally worth it. And also not to say anything bad about it. Oh, i've talked so much shit i've burned that bird what were you saying i will say the thing about sleep no more that i bring into doing buddy out on the street is that doing sleep no more for two and a half years taught me how to deal with every type of irritating audience member and i say that there's distinction it's an immersive show not an interactive show you're not encouraged to interact they have security guards who of course move you it's amazing people somehow think the point of the show is to get in you know so they'll move your prop they'll take it away from you or they'll do something where the idea is that we

don't see the audience it's very clear when a character sees that you're there or not yeah what was the worst thing that happened uh just like i had a typewriter scene right where i put a piece of paper in the typewriter and i go to type and this girl kept pulling the paper out of the typewriter and how did you respond i have to like i just put it back in you know it's like yeah is there do you make eye contact with her or are you just like as if like a no you don't make eye contact

that's the thing that would be really breaking character so it's that or people bumping into you or saying weird saying weird things

how often did security remove people from the experience I don't really know what the stats are on that what did they say to you if someone's super drunk or just

just I don't know I don't it was now six years ago any gals or guys go like like hit on you What did they say to you? Someone's super drunk or just, I don't know. It was now six years ago. Any gals or guys go like, hit on you? There's definitely that energy. It's a sexy show.

Yeah. It's a sexy show. Everyone's hot and in tuxedos and gowns. Yeah, yeah. I was in shorts. And we have these intimate moments. Well, I mean the cast. I know. We have these intimate moments where you look someone in the eye

and take their hand. When that woman took my hand, let me tell you, it was hot. Yeah. And you're in this environment. You know, you're really so... But then I think

there was blood on her hands too. And so I was like, oh my God, I guess she's playing someone on her period. Lady Macbeth. So that is... What did I want to ask? i did one at one point i opened

a door i wasn't supposed to oh yeah i was not trying to be a dick but it was one of those where i opened and there was like actor like by makeup like it was one of the actor rooms it was very cool to see but it felt like you know walking out naked i was like oh sorry yeah sorry um so so then let's let's let's get to we've touched on buddy the rat now buddy the rat has exploded in popularity you're doing it i mean it's a full-time yeah at this point yeah and does it make you nervous at all because it's it's a very singular thing there's only i'm sure you've thought about every everything buddy the rat could be could it be a vegas show could it be a tv show could it be a do you ever worry do you ever worry about how to branch it how to grow it like how do you feel

about it right a little bit i mean it's been one year exactly and it's still a little bit in that phase of i don't know what it is yet, but I know that it's cool to quote. Yeah. To quote the Facebook movie. Social network. Yeah. Unfortunately, that does apply to this. And now, though, I do try to think about what was the career that I want to have.

It's not being a social media content creator. Like I'm not super interested in that. I just am seizing this moment because I recognize it as a good opportunity as what I want to do is write and produce and act in movies and TV shows like the same dream since I was a little kid and have my musical produced and have you know I have these ideas so I I'm writing a buddy the rat animated series with my writing partner right now amazing I have an idea for a video game. I think it would be an amazing third-person video game.

This character crawling, flying, you know. What platform? Virtual reality? Regular? No, regular, like, console video game. Yeah. A live-action movie, maybe. I would love for the character to become a proper narrative

Character in culture because right now it's cool. I have a big following It's starting to be recognized for me doing it as a performance art thing But I think it has a lot of potential and because I own it entirely too. It's totally an original thing if you copyrighted Yeah, I have the trademark on the name and I'm working on copywriting the image. It's a challenging thing to do because there's just, my lawyers have just said it's a really challenging thing to do. Yeah. It'd be funny if you were like,

because there's surprisingly a lot of rat performance artists. A lot of rat. Yeah. It's a very common thing. I actually did. I trademarked the name, the Apple boys for my musical. And it was a two year battle to get the name from.

I think I'm not supposed to talk about it. But certain other companies that might have a similar name. It's such a good, I tell you, there's one comedian, he was like featuring on a show and he was like, dude, copyright. He copyrighted Cougar Hunter. And he's like, dude, I've made six figures off copywriting Cougar Hunter. It's one of these things where I'm like, that doesn't sound like a good society six figures that you can that you can copyright two words yeah i don't think i think two words should be you can't copyright this yeah

i i read all about the person who did the i heart new york i mean like i mean and they will come after you right they have a team that will eat you up if you parody it it's just wild yeah but buddy the rat that seems fair it's a whole it's a whole fucking thing um have you ever because you're in new york i my honest like whenever i see i think about trained performers and like i am at a place especially with showtime dancers where i'm like no i't like this. I don't like this anymore. It feels aggressive. I've seen, they always go, don't worry, we're not going to hit you. I've seen them hit people twice.

And I always remember when they tell me that, I'm like, yeah, of course. They're lying. They don't know. How, have you gotten any tough, has anyone been really tough with you? Like, get the fuck out of here. Definitely. Yeah. But I'm specifically not antagonizing anybody

and if somebody says don't or i don't like it or this or that i leave immediately or take the mask off even and apologize and walk away the one time i went tried to enter a skate park the skate park at tompkins square park and this dude immediately just flinging vitriol at me. Just get the fuck out of here. This fucking TikTok shit. And I was like, are you serious? What's going on? You know, and I just stopped. I didn't continue in.

I'm sure there are some old school skaters. I'm sure every young skater is like making TikToks of their first ollie. And they're like, stop. So they're sensitive maybe. Maybe that's what it is. Has anyone ever tried to push you or, like, scare you? Have you ever been scared? No.

No. I think people, and I do get that question, too. Like, someone wants to beat you up. You shouldn't do that in this place or you'll get in trouble. And it's like, I think humans are less psycho than we think they are. Like, they're not likely to come up and randomly yeah attack a street performer i mean i think i would dig it i dig i dig art i dig weird if i'm walking down the street i'm like oh there's a rat playing around that's fine with me it's showtime dancers i think is a

specific one where i'm like you're jamming you're blasting music all of a sudden i'm it's in the morning you i feel like you might hit me. It feels aggressive. But I like Buddy the Rat. Do you interact with the Times Square people? I've gone to DuckDuck and some stuff in Times Square. Yeah, yeah. I've been around a little bit. Yeah.

I feel like they're not necessarily, this is not their artistic passion. Yeah, exactly. I don't want to be super associated with it. The orange Spider-Man is like, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah it's really nice uh and yeah in the very beginning when i first started showing up there were people who were like this just a guy in a costume anybody can put a mask on and run around and i was like i don't even think i need to clap back because it'll very quickly become clear that what i'm doing is more than being a mascot.

Yeah. Did you study, did you look at rats or, and how they move? I started following rats on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you, is it, is it like based on a rat of how you move or is it your own creation physically? It's based on a passive, you know, having rats in my feed on Instagram. Really?

So you weren't joking? No, I'm serious. You follow rats? No, actually I followed the hashtag rat, hashtag rats, rats of Instagram, like the hashtags. So it'll show up, having rats in my feed on instagram really so you weren't joking no i'm serious no actually i followed the hashtag rat hashtag rats rats of instagram like the hashtags so it'll show up little cute people's like videos of their pet rats and then it's just also just improvising

like figuring out the character the same way you might find your your comedic voice or something i the character has developed so much mostly in may i decided to go out every day i was going to do every day may and i made it to the 23rd and then i was collaborating with this parkour guy he kicked me in the head accidentally and i split open my eyebrow so i took a few days off in the mask yeah yeah and there's a flashlight in the mask so i got like bashed was the video that came out of that funny it's not there like oh no i did make quite get it. Oh, no. I did make a good video, though, because about a month earlier, someone had asked if I'd ever been kicked. And I was like, not yet.

And I stitched it with a shot of me with stitches. Like, well. Oh, my God. But, yeah. So, but I was amazed at how much I discovered doing it 20 days in a row. I was suddenly like, oh, like, scratching the ears and doing this little shake and, like, inviting people to pet me on the head and getting on a trash can and handing people trash like all these little bits emerged yeah and i also i'm i'm he's like 20 dog too i just do things i go up to people and like to get a head scratch like rats don't do that yeah dogs do that but i'm kind of dog like i'm a four-legged animal

you know so there's just it's it's you know the character story now you could probably do you know where where he was born for example well the narrative story we're working out right now we're writing an animated series so hopefully it was raised by dogs what about the animal of the rat was like you were like yes that's what i want to just seeing them just from the connection yeah seeing them and then knowing I could do it with my body. Some people suggest other animals all the time, too. You should be a pigeon. It's like a pigeon doesn't have arms.

They're not as dynamic. Yeah. It wouldn't be interesting. I'd be in a gray suit with a pigeon head. You'd just be, like, moving out of people's way. It would only be funny if you were shitting on people actively. That's the only thing. There's room for it but with this

character is so dynamic i can really and it's because they're and rats are similar to humans in a lot of ways the reason we do testing on them is because they're they share a lot of our genes and all these kind of things so are you going to become active against rat testing as buddy or are you going to be like the mascot being like we like it we like helping people i've no comment i've been approached by i've been approached by pest control companies oh my god you have and i had to be i did say like i'm open to it but i i refuse to be cast as an antagonist uh mascot yes like the noid avoid the noid or this you know i'm like sure i'll do it if he's the hero you can say we're teaming up with a rat to take care of the bad rat you know to take care of the bad rats i don't think we should have wild rats in our apartments yeah that's a problem it's a public

health issue yeah would you ever have a pet rat i'm gonna get two pet rats yeah that's pretty soon yeah i have a friend who wrote me when i said we're doing this interview she said she has 10 rats and that is a that's a lot I want to get more than one because they're social and it really matters and they don't take up that much space everyone who has a rat I have an ex-girlfriend who had a rat

and they love it they love rats they're pocket puppies pocket puppies that's're little pocket puppies. There you go. That's a good rebranding for them. Oh, my God, Mom, there's a pocket puppy under the bed. Oh, that's so sweet.

All right, let's go on to... This has got to stop. This has got to stop. We only need for you today. Do you have a this has got to stop? Yeah. People saying, I'm taking a break from social media for some mental health clarity. I'll be back if you need me.

Yeah, especially because they come back mighty quick. And no one notices anyway, either. No one reports on the gains they made by leaving. It's like the flex is saying, I'm going to go. Sure. Rather than just quietly going. It's a little like all of you are making me upset. Like it's a little like it's on us.

Like we've been, we've been making them feel bad. And then, yeah, they come back quietly. They don't report back anything they've learned or what they reflected on or, and then, and I feel like it's the same people. Then again, a year, once a year they do it. And you're like, sure. I think it's just not for you. Just don't come back. Or I don't know.

Or come back and say, talk about it. It's the equivalent to me being like, hey, I want to let everyone know I've started a book. It's my first book this year. And I plan to finish it. Yeah. I really do. The only time I think it's fair is someone super active. And as long as it's not a brag.

If I was like going off social media for like a month. Oh, people would think you died. I post so regularly. I would be like, hey, just so you know, I'm going out to do, I'm going to Alaska. I'll be back in a month, but be well. But as long as, sometimes I think that's reasonable because I do think people would think that I had tied. Yeah. but as long as sometimes i think that's reasonable because i do think people would think that i had tied yeah but uh i don't i definitely don't like that hey guys i'm gonna need to step away for a

second yeah i'm gonna need a break have you ever done that though because you're a uh no i've never announced that sort of thing i've you're like hey i'm just gonna look at your tweets for a year like uh there was a period where i wasn't on like twitter for a while but i was never that active before it either so i could see buddy the rat doing a funny one level being like buddy being like hey guys i'm gonna work on it i i tried with the apple boys twitter account from a couple years ago i'd never met no one was paying attention yeah but i was trying to do all these jokes of this kind of stuff from the perspective of turn of the century like early 20th century oh so we'd say things like we're taking a break from using the telephone

for a while if you need us send us a carrier pigeon you know i like that it's funny i like that um let's go on to uh finally you better count your blessing you better count your blessing you know we got a little negativity out of you you're but you're a positive guy do you have a your blessing. You better count your blessing. You know, we got a little negativity out of you, but you're a positive guy. Do you have a specific... It was a lot more positive than I was expecting. It's never that negative, I don't think. You brand new.

I'm having a hard time. What the fuck do you mean it's not? Here's my complaint. No, I mean, we talked about drugs and religion and i know i feel insecure they're i don't think because if it's a real or a serious topic that means negative or or it was i i agree yes yes but we we say we we talk a little bit about god damn it all right well we'll change it to the upside you fucking son of a bitch. Do you have a blessing, a specific blessing?

Man, I'm supposed to, I can't say family. No. Absolutely not. No. You can think for a second. Specific family members? What if he has a specific thing that they did today or this week? Well, that'd be fine.

But family, that's big. How about you go wrestle? My blessing. Well, I'm going to sound like an asshole now, but I'm going to say say you john marco because you did a very nice thing for my wife this week he uh she her grandma who's in her 80s in florida um somehow mailed this like package of like dear dear belongings like to an address homemade homemade yeah and But multiple things are in this package. It's a big package. And she sent it to an address my wife hasn't lived at for seven years.

Seven years. And so it's close to here. So the other night she got off the phone. Not that close. It's like a 10-minute walk. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

So, but we live very far away. And Nicole was very upset. She's like, there's no way it got delivered five days ago. There's no way that it's not stolen or it's the, you know, it's just not even. So John Marco went over to the address. He wrote a note.

He got the number of the, the, so I went there, there was a couple of packages in the thing. I was hopeful, but it wasn't there. And I honestly, and I didn't say this to Nicole,

but when the packages weren't there, I'm like, it's gone. I have packages stolen wherever. So i left a note at the apartment that she used to live at yes then i left another note at the front door two notes yes and then i and then i just was like i took a picture of the super's number yes which again if you called my super and asked the package no you're not getting back this guy what a great super so she called him uh no one lives at the address.

So you slip to know no one lives there. He saw the package. He thought, oh, someone might need this. I'll keep it safe so it doesn't get stolen in the basement. And so she got it today. Wonderful. So thank you for doing that. That was a big thing. You know how many times I thought about that this was going to be your blessing?

Did you think of a blessing got a blessing well i do it's it's family but it's my siblings specifically i have to shout them out two brothers and a sister and it's just like i don't know man get older entire friend groups have dissolved away the networks have changed the things relationships friendships get so difficult it's nice to have the steady drumbeat of this sibling. And we have like a super strong bond, all four of us. What's the age difference? Never. Four and five years apart each.

So my mom just had children for 20 years straight, right? Four years older, five years younger, and then four years younger below that. And we're all super close. They're all super rad, hardworking, creative people. Yeah. And I listen, it's, I think about all the time, especially as your parents get older, you're like, you're, you're a team

to like eventually figure out your parents and taking care of them. And yeah, that's a beautiful thing. I don't worry. I texted Chris and Doug. So we're going to be a little bit late. Oh, great. So let's, to, to end this off,

do you have anything you'd like to plug? This is coming out December 14th. December 14th. Just follow me on Instagram is the main thing. And what's the handle? At Jonathan Lyons. At Jonathan Lyons. J-O-N-O-T-H-O-N-L-Y-O-N-S.

We will tag it in the thing. And I'll plug Uncle Function's show as this Friday, December 17th at Asylum NYC. And follow me on Instagram, too, at Russell J. Daniels. Wonderful. I have to plug a couple. Oh, wait. I have a gift for you guys.

I forgot. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You do? Yeah, yeah. I put it in my pocket ahead of time so I could give it to you during. Oh, look at that. Oh, thank you.

Oh, I love that. Oh, look at this. This is a good piece of merch. This is great. It's good. It was made by. Much better than my merch. Yeah.

Rero Creations. Oh, wow. Very cool. Thank you. I love it. A former security guard from Sleep No More started a pin company during the pandemic. God. And so he makes like Sleep No More pins and different things, you know, from the community.

And he's like, let's do a buddy pin. Man, some people really, they took advantage of that pandemic yeah it's something like that that started really talented it's a beautiful look it's beautiful i reach out i'm gonna reach out for some merch of my own i'll give you the i'll give you the name please um let me just plug some some quick dates uh uh december 14th wait hold up i'm to be in Boston. This is, let me just make sure I get all the dates right. Okay. So upcoming dates. I'll be headlining at Nick's Comedy Stop, December 17th and 18th. I'll be at the Philly Punchline, December 30th to January 1st. I'll be at Laffy Dick's Laugh Hut in Tampa, January 7th and 8th. Laugh Hut in Tampa, January 7th and 8th. Let's see. I'm at the Waka Waka, Chuckle Shack, Madison, Wisconsin, February 4th and 5th.

Sorry, I have a couple. Are these real names? Yeah. Just back to back. No, I'm not super familiar. Which one was weird? The last two. Super weird names.

Let me tell you. I've tried to name comedy shows. Sounds like you're improvising comedy club i have them right here it's amazing every every every variation of like laugh ha ha they've all been done so all these comedy clubs especially the new ones they've really had to like to get copywritten um like okay this one's more regular. Bob's Giggle Dungeon. That's in Tallahassee. That's in Tallahassee, February 25th. Guys, I got to get these dates out, please. I'm at, not the Funny Bone. There's a chain called the Funny Bone.

This is called Funny Bones with a Z. Funny Bones. Funny Bones in the Closet. Comedy Killer Chuckle festival. Okay, I have a confession. I have a confession. Russell always makes jokes that all the comedy clubs sound ridiculous. And he's never done this before.

He usually does real ones. But I've always made jokes. Two of those were real to be fair. Two of them were real. But I wrote a bunch of joke ones and sent them to him. Because I was like, these sound like real. But it's funny because you knew right when it changed i did these are yes yes oh wow you called it right when you called it the first two we wanted to try it and normally i have stand-up comedians who'd be like boy here's the other three i couldn't i there's no way it's gonna make it through funny

bones you said the funny bones in the closet comedy killer chuckle fest festival I added in Seattle and then March 17th to 19th I got haha that's what laughter sounds like in Scranton Pennsylvania and then finally Tiki Tina's

tickle Tiki Tina's tickles titt Titties Tee Hee Hee Lounge in Boise, Idaho, March 24th, 2023. Oh, I had fun making those names. We're going to try it again and see how far we can get. But you had an eye. You did. He nailed it right away. He was like, those sound fake.

Right away. Which I'm kind of bummed because the first two, I was like that those sound fake uh right away which i'm kind of bummed because the first two i was like maybe they'll slip in i'm trying to figure out what just happens like what because like the prank is kind of on me to sit here and listen we wanted to test it to be see like yeah if because we thought comics would know yeah so so i just wanted to see it would be great that juxtaposed the footage of me just accepting it. Oh, that's funny. And it didn't happen. Wait, just nod for a second,

and I'll record it later. It's going to be a really good time. I'll record a cleanup to this. Well, thank you so much for being on The Downside. And, you know, I think positive or negative, whether you like or hate rats, at the end of the day, you're probably going to wind up as rat food. This is The Downside. One, two, three. Downside.

Downside. Downside Downside