The Dr. Hyman Show - A Simple Diet Experiment That May Solve Most Of Your Health Issues with Lisa Dreher

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up on this episode of The Doctor's Pharmacy. That's what I help people with is how do you do this in a way that we can really identify which foods might you need to stay off of a little bit longer. But as we're working to heal the gut, as we talked about before, how can we bring these foods back in so that you can start having more variety and more diversity? Hey everyone, it's Dr. Hyman here. Now so many of my patients ask me how I manage to work multiple jobs, travel frequently, well, not so much anymore,

Starting point is 00:00:28 and spend time with my family and still focus on my health. I know it can seem hard to eat well when you got a lot going on, but the trick is to never let yourself get into a food emergency and to stay stocked up with the right things to support your goals. So when I keep nourishing snacks and the right supplements to optimize my health at home and at my office, I know I'm helping myself make good choices in the future. Recently, I discovered Paleo Valley Beef Sticks. I keep these beef sticks at home and at the office so I know that whenever I'm in a food emergency, I have a healthy

Starting point is 00:01:00 and delicious option to keep me on track. It's no secret that I have high standards when it comes to what I put in my body, and Paleo Valley Beef Sticks checks all the boxes. They're gluten free, grain free, dairy free, soy free, and non-GMO. Plus, they use 100% grass fed and grass finished beef, which not only adds to the flavorful taste, but it also means they're free of any harmful antibiotics or hormones that you'll find in most meat. With grass-fed beef, you'll get more nutrients than you would with beef fed with grains, things like higher levels of omega-3 fats

Starting point is 00:01:34 that help reduce inflammation, and more B vitamins and other antioxidants to support your body's converting food into energy, and also more of the fat-soluble vitamins that are beneficial for a healthy heart. Plus, instead of being processed with chemicals and other questionable ingredients like similar snacks, these beef sticks are naturally fermented, so you get gut-friendly probiotics with every bite. How cool is that? Right now, Paleo Valley is offering my listeners 15% off your entire first order. Just

Starting point is 00:02:06 go to paleovalley.com forward slash hyman to check out all their clean paleo products and take advantage of this deal. That's paleovalley.com forward slash hyman. I definitely recommend stocking up on the grass-fed beef sticks to keep in your house, in your car, and in your office. It's one of my favorite tricks to staying healthy while on the go. All right, now let's get back to this week's episode of The Doctor's Pharmacy. Welcome to The Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm Dr. Mark Hyman, and that's pharmacy with an F, F-A-R-M-A-C-Y, a place for conversations that matter. And if you think food might be messing with your health and making you sick, you better listen to this podcast because it's with none other than our nutritionist here at the Ultra Wellness Center, Lisa Dreher, on our new episodes of House Call, which is a special

Starting point is 00:02:55 doctor's pharmacy series of episodes that are focused on real problems with real people that have real solutions using the power of functional medicine. Lisa is one of our key nutritionists here, and she is just an extraordinary young lady. She's a registered dietitian. Maybe she's not so young, but I don't know. She looks young to me. Everybody's young. I'm 60 years old.

Starting point is 00:03:14 She got her undergraduate degree in nutrition at Rochester Institute of Technology. She did her dietetic internship at Cornell University, which is my alma mater. She's worked in acute care hospital settings. She's a clinical nutrition specialist and worked in pediatric GI. She also got her master's degree in nutrition and integrative health from the Maryland University of Integrative Health and has been practicing with us here since 2015 and is also certified in functional medicine through the Institute for Functional Medicine and has lectured all over the place, has been showcased in national magazines like Reader's Digest on NPR and featured in the Broken Brain 2 series. She's also developed digestive health and gut microbiome

Starting point is 00:03:54 training for dieticians. So she is just on it. And we are so lucky to have her here because we're going to talk about something today, which you might not have heard about, but is probably the most important tool to treat disease. Now, I always say if I were stranded on a desert island or a deserted island, and I only had one drug or tool to bring with me as a doctor to treat my patients, what would it be? It would be an elimination diet, which I don't really like the term because it sounds like you're depriving yourself. It's actually an addition diet because you're adding on all the good things and you're taking out the bad things. So that's what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about all the various ways in which food can influence our health from the perspective of allergy and tolerance and sensitivity.

Starting point is 00:04:46 So we know that, you know, there's foods that help promote well-being and health and blood sugar and so forth. But there's a whole other set of ways in which food interacts with your biology that creates inflammation and that creates chronic symptoms. And that it's not typically like, oh, well, it's just eat this bad sugar or bread or whatever. It's much more nuanced than that. And I think it's an incredible subject that we haven't really taken a deep dive into. But it really, for me, in understanding the role of food as medicine, is really the kingpin of treatment and functional medicine. Is using food as medicine, not just eat healthy food, don't eat unhealthy food, but very specifically understanding what people's unique needs are and what particular foods for them are causing a problem and why.

Starting point is 00:05:35 So Lisa, tell us a little bit about your first sort of understanding of the elimination diet. As a dietician, it's probably not something you really learned much about, except maybe as an elemental diet, as someone who's got Crohn's disease. But what was a light bulb moment for you when you went, wait a minute, this is a game changer when it comes to dealing with chronic disease? Yeah, well, thank you for the introduction, Mark. It is great to be here. And no, it's true. I learned a little bit about it in school. But when it comes to how powerful removing certain foods are and adding certain foods in, it's very, I only learned that once I actually got to here, got to learn more about functional medicine, learn more about integrative health.

Starting point is 00:06:16 Here at the Ultra Wellness Center. Here at the Ultra Wellness Center. And, you know, there are many different ways that a person can react to foods. It's not just like, as you said, sugar causes inflammation. We know that. But there are these nuances that there are a few different ways I'd like to talk about, first being probably the most obvious one, which is allergies. So there's something called immunoglobulins. And these are antibodies that they're designed to protect us against invaders, whether that be in the environment, food. I mean, it goes into our digestive tract, and that is our first line of defense. So if we have certain invaders or the body perceives them as invaders, we need to be

Starting point is 00:06:53 protected. So there are these immunoglobulins. And when we think about allergies, we think more about like a peanut allergy or a cow's milk allergy. And this is more- Strawberry or shellfish or something where you blow up and you get your tongue swells. Those like top eight allergens. And those are immunoglobulin E or IgE reactions.

Starting point is 00:07:13 So these you think of, you know, sort of immediate reactions. You think of hives, you think of swelling of the lips, the tongue, more extreme reaction would be anaphylaxis. Yeah, you could die. You could die. It's a very life-threatening potentially condition. So that happens pretty immediate. People realize that they have that pretty quickly. But there are these others. Yeah, I just got a quick story about you. Remind me of this patient I had when I was an intern. I was in the emergency room

Starting point is 00:07:39 and this guy came driving up to the front of the emergency room and we heard this horn going nonstop. Like someone had their hand on the horn. Except he didn't have his hand on the horn. He had his head on the horn and he had literally died. And his face was in the horn. And he drove himself to the emergency room. We brought him in. He was a young guy.

Starting point is 00:08:01 We threw him on a stretcher. We put in epinephrine. We put in steroids. We shocked his heart. We brought him back to life. Did all guy. We threw him on a stretcher. We put in epinephrine. We put in steroids. We shocked his heart. We brought him back to life. Did all the great fun things that we do in medicine. And then we said, what happened? He says, well, I'm allergic to fish.

Starting point is 00:08:15 And my friend was cooking fish. And I was in his apartment. And I smelled the fish. That's all it took. I didn't even eat the fish. And I noticed I started to react. And I'm two miles away from the fish. That's all it took. I didn't even eat the fish. And I noticed I started to react and I'm two miles away from the hospital. I figured if I waited for the ambulance, I'd be dead. So he jumped in his car, drove there. And it's that level of reaction. That's a true allergy. Yes.

Starting point is 00:08:36 But when we in functional medicine deal with allergies, we're mostly talking about something quite different, which is a different kind of food reactions. There's a lot of ways your body reacts to food. That's only one of them. And it's not one of the most common ones. No. More common are intolerances and sensitivities. So intolerance, this is a non-immune reaction. So the IgE is an immune reaction. Intolerance, a lot of people might think, okay, lactose intolerance, even fructose intolerance or histamine intolerance or intolerance to sugar alcohols, these compounds that are poorly digested and absorbed and can lead to symptoms such as abdominal pain, diarrhea, headaches. Yeah, you eat ice cream and you get gassed, your stomach blows up, you feel like bad and

Starting point is 00:09:18 you get diarrhea. That's not an allergy. Right. That's not an allergy. It's a little bit different than a sensitivity, which I'll explain. But these are a little bit easier to pick up on. The symptoms usually show up within an hour or so after eating the food. Like you said, eat milk, drink milk, then you're in the bathroom not too long after.

Starting point is 00:09:37 There are also these things like other reactions that are not even related to intolerance, like, for example, MSG or aspartame, which are these excitotoxins. Yes. These are compounds that do have reactions to the body that are not really immune related. related to intolerance, like for example, MSG or aspartame, which are the excitotoxins. Yes. So these are compounds that, you know, do have reactions to the body that are not really immune related. They're more related to the neurologic effects of the amino acid like compounds that can alter your brain function and your headaches or make you hyperactive. Brain fog, all that.

Starting point is 00:09:58 Yes, exactly. Migraines. So there's that whole series. And then I would argue probably the most common, but the hardest to pick up on, are the food sensitivities. So going back to the IgE reactions, these food sensitivities are IgG and IgA. So just the different way that the body reacts, in fact, IgGs are the most common antibodies in the body. These are delayed. It's like if you eat a peanut, you know you're going to know within minutes.

Starting point is 00:10:24 Yes. If you eat, you know, let's say you have, you're allergic to like, I don't know, like onions. It could be gluten. Or maybe it's, you know, eggplant. Right. And you feel sick three days later. You're not going to know that it was from- It's several hours or days.

Starting point is 00:10:43 Exactly. It could be hours or days later. So you're not always going to connect the dots. Right. And unless you're writing down everything you eat. I know if you ask me, what did you eat two days ago? Unless you're eating the same thing every day, it's going to be very hard to- I ate an artichoke.

Starting point is 00:10:56 I ate an artichoke with some sauerkraut. So no, it's very hard. So if you have these, the other thing that makes it difficult too to pick up on this is the symptoms range so broadly. So it's not like, oh, I'm going to have hives and swelling of the lips. It could be anything from brain fog, hyperactivity. It could be depression, anxiety. It could be weight gain.

Starting point is 00:11:20 It could be FLC syndrome, feel like crap, right? And it could be anything else, really. Sleep, depression, mood changes, eczema, acne. Eczema, yes. So much. So hormonal changes, menstrual issues. Joint pain. Joint pain, aching.

Starting point is 00:11:38 And so a lot of people don't associate so many of these symptoms with the food that they've eaten. Sinus issues, allergies. Absolutely. Changes, it could be GI, it could be changes to the bowels, it could be constipation, diarrhea, abdominal pain, but again, it's not so acute. So it's difficult to recognize which foods are associated with that. And we do check here at the Ultra Wellness Center, we do have testing to check for these IgG, IgA antibodies, but there's no one test that's perfect. There's no one test that checks every way that a food can interact with somebody or cause these symptoms, which is really why the elimination diet continues to be the gold standard.

Starting point is 00:12:16 And that's what we do pretty much with all of our patients. Yeah. There's even another response because what you're talking about is antibody responses that the body creates. And antibodies are sort of like smart bombs. They're specific, right? So you get an antibody to dairy or an antibody to eggs or an antibody to chicken. Corn, whatever. Corn, whatever. But there's another part of your immune system. It's the ancient immune system.

Starting point is 00:12:39 It's your primitive immune system. Like we call it your innate or cell-mediated immune system. Right. And that creates a sort of a general response. And you can't measure that. And it just creates this just generalized inflammation. Yes. And it can be to anything.

Starting point is 00:12:54 And also gluten is commonly causing this type of innate immune response, which is really hard to measure. So even if you check for gluten antibodies or celiac, you'll miss it. You may not pick it up. Right. Exactly. No, that's very true. And there are many reasons why we can have these types because we're always thinking in functional medicine, why?

Starting point is 00:13:14 Why is this happening? Yeah. So why do people get these weird sensitivities? Because it seems like odd that we would be reacting to all these foods that we should be eating and they're actually probably even good for us. Right. Why would you be reacting to an egg? Yes. Or, you know, kidney beans or strawberries, like you said before. It's like, they're good for you, right? Right. Well, there are a number

Starting point is 00:13:33 of different reasons. And I would say in relation to sensitivities specifically, number one, you think about what's the variety in our diet. Our diets are becoming less and less varied. Okay. I don't even need to, I'm preaching to the choir here, but it just with subsidies and just all of the foods, it's like you go into the supermarket and they're all made with the same like five basic ingredients. I mean, 90% of our diet is 12 plants and 60% of our diet is three plants, wheat, corn, soy, and rice, depending on where you're from. Exactly. So the lack of variety really, really is a problem. But also if you're eating a high quantity of certain foods,

Starting point is 00:14:13 let's say it is eggs, which eggs are a wonderful food, very high in nutrient density, but they're higher allergenic potential food. So if you're eating multiple eggs every day, and I talk to people who do this because they love it and it's easy and it's quick, but eventually with enough exposure, those proteins can start to become what the body interprets as an invader. So it can begin to develop a sensitivity if there's not enough variety and rotation in the diet. But then you also have to think about the gut microbiome. How balanced is it? Do we have dysbiosis or lack of balance of gut bacteria? And how can that be influencing the inflammation in our gut, the integrity of the

Starting point is 00:14:52 lining of our gut, all the things that can lead to leaky gut or intestinal permeability, herbicides, pesticides, overuse of medications, non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, antibiotics. I mean, the list goes on and we're all bombarded with this all the time. Okay. You just said something really importantly. So you said leaky gut. Leaky gut. So I want to backpedal on that. Yes. What is leaky gut and why should I care? Okay. I love explaining this. It's like, you can really get the visual because our gut really there's-

Starting point is 00:15:23 It sounds kind of messy, actually. I don't know. I don't want to- I mean, it kind of can be. I don't know if I want the visual on our gut really there's- It sounds kind of messy actually. I don't know. I don't know if I want the visual on this one. I'll make it. I won't get too crazy with it. So what we eat- There might be children listening. What we eat and what we drink, we want those things, especially what we eat, to break down to their basic molecules. We want the vitamins, the minerals, the amino acids, all these things that our body needs to be absorbed. And we need everything else to get excreted in the stool, urine, all that. It's like a big filter. It's a filter. Exactly. It's a protector, which is why 70 to 80% of our immune system is in the lining of our gut because so

Starting point is 00:16:00 much goes through there. So there's one, there's basically one cell thick that helps protect us between whatever's in there, all the toxins and everything. It's like a sewer. Yes, it is a sewer, right? And everything else that gets absorbed, there's this one cell lining that we need to be, you know, we want those cells to be tight together. Unless we give that, unless we're in a place where those foods are completely broken down and then those gaps can open up a little bit, allow some of the amino acids and all the vitamins and minerals to go through, we absorb them and we utilize them in a perfect world. But all these things we're talking about, herbicides, pesticides, medications, all that, and certain foods can actually cause gaps to form in between the cells inappropriately

Starting point is 00:16:47 and allow larger protein molecules from our food, as well as bacteria, viruses, all the things that are in our gut to start leaking through into our circulatory system, into our blood where it shouldn't be. And then our body sees that as an invader because technically it is, it shouldn't be there. It should be in our gut. And so there's that, that in and of itself is leaky gut. I think like, so your, your, your, your gut lining is a coffee filter, right? Yeah. So you want, you want the coffee to, you know, it's good stuff to go through the coffee filter, but you don't want the grounds in your coffee. Exactly. So if the holes are too big, then all this coffee grounds end up in your coffee. It's not so great. Right. And the

Starting point is 00:17:24 reason, uh, you know, the lining is there is to allow the right stuff through and to keep the bad stuff out. Right. And what happens with all the things you're talking about are processed diet, pesticides, glyphosate, for example, which destroys our microbiome, the overuse of medications, stress, all these various things cause damage to the gut. And so if you look at the microbiome of some indigenous cultures or people who are living more traditional lives and diets, their microbiomes are incredibly diverse, incredibly healthy, and they don't have allergies. They don't have asthma. They don't have autoimmune disease. They don't have sinus problems. They don't have eczema. They don't have any of these problems because their guts are different and their microbiome

Starting point is 00:18:07 is very diverse. It's like a rainforest instead of a monocrop soybean field. And I think that's what we're facing in this country is a devastation of our microbiome. We're worried about the rainforest. We got a rainforest in the sinus. We should be worried about that. And how do we restore that? How do we plant the good trees in there?

Starting point is 00:18:25 And I think the whole concept of these food sensitivities has been completely neglected in traditional medicine. It's thought as, you know, quackery, you know, the tests are challenging, they can be helpful, but they're not like a perfect test, right? So often, for example, I just had a patient yesterday who we did a test on five years ago. She had 26 different foods that she was reacting to. Doesn't mean she's allergic to 20 different foods, but she had a terrible gut. She had giardia. She had terrible bloating. She had irritable bowel. She had all these issues. We fixed her gut and her reactions

Starting point is 00:19:03 went down to nine. And in fact, not only did they go down to nine, but they were very, very low levels of reaction. And they were only to the things that we knew she was really reacting to, like gluten. So it was rye, barley, oats, those are wheat, those are the ones that she was reacting to. So out of the nine, five of them were like gluten grains, which we knew anyway. So I think the key is you can heal a leaky gut. And if you're allergic to peanuts, you probably want to stay away from peanuts forever. There may be new treatments and so forth that we can modify that, but you don't want to mess with that. If you're sensitive to a food, it doesn't mean that you need to stay away from it forever. You need to fix the cause.

Starting point is 00:19:43 And that's what functional medicine really is focused on. Absolutely. And I think another point of what you're saying is we're trying to increase and improve the resilience of the body. So the goal is to not keep those foods out that we see on these sensitivities or if we're doing some kind of comprehensive elimination diet, we're not trying to keep those foods out for the next 10 years of your life. We're trying to heal and seal the lining of the gut, help improve the microbiome to the point where you can then be more varied with your diet, expose yourself to new foods that before perhaps were giving you a problem, but won't be as much of an issue down the road. So yes, I think that's a very good point.

Starting point is 00:20:19 Yeah. And it's so key. And so it's not just about getting rid of the foods. Right. It's about figuring out why the gut is a mess. Yes. And what can you add to help heal it? And what can you add to heal it, right? So it's not just about what you take out. It's a huge part of it. That's why we should call it an addition diet instead of elimination diet. I know. I really, I'm with you. It's bad marketing. I think we should come up with a better name for it. Yes. I don't like the elimination part. That's one thing. There are two things I really like to emphasize with my patients. And one is it's not just about what you can't eat.

Starting point is 00:20:49 I know it's easy and it's very natural to see this list of foods, whether it's a short list or a comprehensive elimination diet where we have a ton of foods that we take out like corn, soy, wheat, gluten, dairy, all these things. And then they're left thinking, well, what can I eat? Well, the reality is there's a lot more you can eat than you can't eat in this situation. But it's so easy because food isn't just calories and fat and protein. It's also what connects us. It's part of the community and emotional connection we have. So if you're used to eating these foods all the time, it's a big shock to some people. So then that's all they can see is what they can't eat. Yeah. But it's really... You're taking away my cheese. Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:21:31 I've got a story about that. Wait. Yep. Exactly. But it's also about what you can add in, not only in terms of whole foods that are rich in polyphenols, these things that protect and heal the lining of the gut, but it's like getting more diversity in your diet, learning how to get into the kitchen, you know, cook with all these different flavors and textures, sort of like reconnect. Spices. With food, exactly, that are actively healing, but you're also enjoying the food. Yeah, I was joking about the artichoke,

Starting point is 00:22:02 but like that's a great prebiotic food. And I eat them like every week, multiple times a week. And it's so delicious. I dip them in extra virgin olive oil, balsamic vinegar, which also helps your gut. Exactly, polyphenols. Right, and so it's really fun and easy. It can be fun. And then you get to add stuff back, right?

Starting point is 00:22:19 Right, and that's so important. And that's what people don't realize. And a lot of people come to me and either they've already tried an elimination diet. Let's say they've done gluten and dairy free. My first question always is, did you have any help? Did you do this on your own? Did you go online? Did you find something or did you have a professional who knows how to guide you through this? First question. Second question is, how do you reintroduce? Like, what do you do? Well, you know, I went and had a pizza. I had a pizza. Well, that's like, you know,

Starting point is 00:22:51 three or four different. Glutonary, all these things. And we're not even talking about good quality gluten. We're talking about white flour. Right. So that. I had this patient when she was, she had rheumatoid arthritis and she was overweight and she really was struggling. And she was, you know, tested gluten. She was definitely tested for gluten sensitivity and she really was struggling. And she was, you know, tested gluten. She was definitely tested for gluten sensitivity and she had elevated antibodies. And I said, you really can't be eating any gluten. And she's like, well, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. I'm like, well, let's do an experiment. Let's put you on a, at the point at that time was just a, we call it an ultra clear fast. So for 10 days, all she did was this rice protein shake, which is hyper allergenic. And that was it. All of her symptoms went away. She dropped a ton of

Starting point is 00:23:30 weight and she realized that there was gluten in her diet and it was hidden. It could be in soy milk that you're having. It could be in all kinds of dressings and stuff. And it's got all these names that you wouldn't even know. It's like sugar. They disguise it. And then in processed food, there's something called microbial transglutaminase. So gluten is what is often used to make things stick together. Because it's like glue, right? Right.

Starting point is 00:24:00 If you ever made flour or bread, it's like that sticky thing. And it makes processed foods stick together. And so they have bacteria make these actually bacterial versions of gluten, essentially, that then they put in food. And it doesn't have to be on the label. So pretty much if you're eating any packaged or processed food, you don't know what you're eating. And so I think, and people are, you know, really, really sensitive.

Starting point is 00:24:23 You know, even a flyby, you know, if they're eating out of a grill that somebody cooked something on was breaded. Cross-contamination. You're going to get it. So I think, you know, I did that. And then I saw her a few months later and I was like, what happened to you? She lost 40 pounds. She, like all of her students went away. So I think people have to understand like, you know, oh, I just had like a little bit.

Starting point is 00:24:40 Right. And for some things that, you know, may not be a big deal. But if you have a little bit of gluten, even a thumbnail full in three months, you're back to square one. Yeah, it's tough. And in terms of gluten, there's so many people, I'm sure you've had this experience too, where people will go over to Europe and have the gluten there and they won't react as much. And for some people, that is the case. For some people, they just have to keep it out entirely no matter where they are.

Starting point is 00:25:01 But I think there are two major reasons why. Number one, in this country, we've hybridized and basically genetically modified wheat to have double the amount of gluten because of exactly what you're saying. That stickiness, we like the texture, we like... It's just trying to make it more palatable and pleasing to our... You don't want those giant fricking croissants and bagels instead of the little ones. Yes. And then also, we spray wheat with herbicides, pesticides, all these things. And the combination of the excess gluten with all of these chemicals, just it's a perfect storm for our gut and leaky gut and dysbiosis.

Starting point is 00:25:37 And then all of the other symptoms that come from that. And that I think of joint pain. I think of headaches. I think of, you know, ADHD. I think of a lot of things that are associated with that sensitivity specifically. Yeah, I mean, the gluten story is really interesting because, you know, it's like, you watch these movies like, hey, I'm gluten free. It's like, what's that?

Starting point is 00:25:53 It's like, I don't know, but everybody's doing it. It must be good, right? Yep, all those. Yep, I've seen them. Exactly. And it's sort of become this cultural meme. Most people don't even know what gluten is, but it's a protein that's in wheat that can be very inflammatory. And the modern wheat has much more of these gluten proteins. And tell us why gluten is, of all foods, is so critical in terms of driving this leaky gut

Starting point is 00:26:16 and leading not only to gluten sensitivity, but to all these other sensitivities that sort of follow on, that are like hangers on to the gluten. Exactly. Well, there's one thing that I will say in terms of when you eat gluten, that's one of the major drivers of something called zonulin. And zonulin was discovered and found to actually drive leaky gut. So to give signals to the lining of the gut to open up and make those gaps so that things fall through.

Starting point is 00:26:45 So it actually is one of the major drivers of leaky gut for that reason. And as I said before... So basically, this is a natural molecule in our bodies. It's designed, you know, to take care of things. For example, if you get cholera, I mean, sometimes it's good to have a leaky gut. Right. Sometimes. But gluten tends to trigger this, according to Dr. Alessio Fasano, who's the world's expert in gluten at Harvard, that it triggers some degree of increase in zonulin in everybody, which can trigger some degree of leaky gut in everybody.

Starting point is 00:27:16 Regardless, yes. Now, some people do fine, and they're okay with it, and they're really healthy, and it doesn't matter. But if you're looking to dramatically reduce inflammation, making gluten a staple in your diet is not a great idea, particularly modern wheat. So if you want to eat, you know, ancient spelt or einkorn wheat or kernza wheat or, you know, rye, like those might be better tolerated. Spelt, especially those that have been sourdough where the traditional way of actually creating and making breads. Actually, Dr. Fasano said, you know, here we have these fast rising breads, like, you know, one hour, boom, two hours. He said in Europe, it's 12 hours, 18 hours, 24 hours, they make

Starting point is 00:27:53 their bread rise. So it actually creates a very different process in the wheat that breaks down some of the gluten and creates less reactivity. So there's a lot of explanations. Absolutely. So yeah, eventually, no matter who you are, and I think he said this, Dr. Sano said, regardless of your predisposition to gluten sensitivity, celiac disease, if you have gluten in your diet long enough and in large enough quantities, you are going to lose. It's the human that's going to lose. It's the gluten that's going to win. And basically, if anybody has any chronic disease or any inflammatory problem. Autoimmune condition. Absolutely. Pretty much anything that, you know, it's sort of like, for me, it's like getting someone's blood pressure. You know, checking

Starting point is 00:28:34 to see if they're reactive to gluten is like checking their blood pressure. It's the standard here. It is because, you know, partly because we see people who've seen everybody else and done everything else and gone everywhere and have come here because nothing else is working. But it also is so common and it's so missed and it's so misdiagnosed. And so we have different diagnostic tests that can help us look at different gluten antibodies, look at zonulin antibodies. We have very sophisticated ways of looking at this. And I think for people who are struggling, it's very helpful. And then you can actually implement a program of a diet to eliminate the foods that are reactive. Very specific to them.

Starting point is 00:29:07 So you can do testing or you can just do an elimination diet. But I'd love you to share some stories of some patients we've had here at the Ultra Wellness Center who've struggled and tell me what was going on with them and how did this approach impact them? Yeah. So one comes to mind I would love to share. So there's a 47-year-old woman who came with constipation. She was pooping maybe twice a week. I'm like, we got to get you pooping twice a day, twice a week. So constipation. Oh, yeah, that reminds me of a patient I had.

Starting point is 00:29:35 I said, so how are your bowel movements? She goes, oh, they're regular. I said, how often do you go? She goes, once a week. Yep. I said, that's not regular. She goes, it's regular for me. I go every week. Yep. I that's not regular. She goes, it's regular for me. I go every week.

Starting point is 00:29:47 Exactly. Just painful. She's Dr. Hyman. I didn't know it was normal. Like I thought going every day, this is like a whole thing. That's normal to them. That's what they think is normal. But this person had constipation, at least she recognized that it was constipation. She had joint pains, but she had sinus, these recurring sinus infections that would happen every year, once or twice a year. So when I hear constipation, when I hear sinus congestion and inflammation in general, I think of dairy, dairy products. And when I hear joint pain, I think of gluten. Sure, it could be a lot of other foods, but we thought, okay, let's start

Starting point is 00:30:20 off with gluten and dairy-free. Of course, sugar-free and preservative and- Process-free. Gluten, dairy, sugar, and processed food. Yeah. 90% of the time, that's all you need. Exactly. So at first, she sounded like she was on board. I just kind of gave her the overview. And then it was like a light bulb just went off. So she grabbed- Yeah, told you you had to take away her cheese. She grabbed, yes. She's like, are you telling me that I have to give up my cheese? So when I told her, I said, well, unfortunately, yes. And I thought it was just going to be like a little back and forth. She started sobbing.

Starting point is 00:30:53 Oh, no. I mean, sobbing. I had to give her the tissues. And I said, you know what? This is the first time I'm really seeing in real time the power of food addiction. And I said, I let her finish, obviously I didn't interrupt her. But I said, have you ever heard of casomorphins before or gluteomorphins and these opioid-like peptides that cross the blood-brain barrier and can

Starting point is 00:31:17 actually not only influence you neurologically, but cause you to feel addicted to these foods? Like you need to have more. She's like, no, I haven't heard of it, but it sounds like me. And I was just kind of nervous. I wasn't sure if she was really going to be on board because she, again, I'd never seen something so reactive before. Four weeks later, she comes back. I'm like, how'd she do? Different person.

Starting point is 00:31:39 Different person entirely. Even the way she spoke was more clear. She sounded more confident. There wasn't something holding her back. She was pooping five times a week. Her joint pain went away. But she was like, the most remarkable thing about this is not just the fact that I was able to give up cheese, but the fact that I don't have any cravings for it anymore. I don't need it. I don't even want it because I can't believe something had such a tight hold over me. Well, you know, you mentioned these caseomorphins and this is a real thing. Real. That we actually test for at the Ultra Wellness Center. We use urine testing and we

Starting point is 00:32:13 can see both gluten and dairy. They do react with the basically heroin receptors in your brain and the opioid receptors in your brain and they create this pleasure, but they also are highly addictive. And it's not that it happens in everybody, but it's not that uncommon. It's more common in autistic kids and others. So really very great story because people often don't connect the dots. And when you give people a chance to stop the foods that are problematic and add in the good foods, then their body's going to tell them.

Starting point is 00:32:45 They don't need you or me or a doctor or anybody else to tell them what works. They see the difference. Their sinuses clear up. Their headaches go away. Their skin clears up. They feel better, right? Their digestion improves. So I think that's a great case. And you had another case of a young man with depression and anxiety and acne. Yeah, he was 20 years old. It was very, very sad. The depression was debilitating for him for many years. Anxiety, as you said, acne, cystic acne. And so he was a bit more complicated. He had been struggling for a while. So we did a comprehensive elimination diet. So we took out all the heavy hitters, of course, like we said before, all the processed foods, but corn, soy, even shellfish and tree nuts. And we took out a mixture, alcohol, caffeine, all of that.

Starting point is 00:33:26 And that's, that's the diet where people are like, what should I be eating? Then if I have to give up all these foods, that's also, I know, what am I going to eat? What the heck should I eat? That's like your book. So it's like my food group is pizza. All the things you can't eat. It's devastating. But number one, that's why it's so important to work with somebody that you can have guidance. You have ideas for meals, snacks, and that's what every patient walks away with is a very individualized meal plan that provides what should they be eating and recipes, resources, all that. But so going back to this case, we knew that it was going to be a little bit longer term. I knew that he was going to feel better to some degree, but I thought it was going to take a little bit longer. So after

Starting point is 00:34:09 four weeks, which is a typical amount of time between when somebody first comes to see me and the follow-up, he started to feel a clarity that he hadn't had in a while. He still had the depression. He still had the anxiety. The acne was still there, but he said, I feel well enough that I'm motivated and I want to keep doing this. And that was going to be my recommendation anyway. So I was like, okay, great. We're on the same page. Another month goes by.

Starting point is 00:34:30 But it doesn't take a long time. Like, it's not like you do this for six months and see how you feel. Like, literally, the first few days are hard because you want to withdraw. And then after three or four days, by day five, six, seven, you start to see such dramatic changes. Exactly. It's pretty remarkable. Yep.

Starting point is 00:34:45 And the people that I would least expect to be on board with these types of diets are the ones that do the best, to be honest with you. And so after a month, he said, okay, I've got this clarity. I do want to continue on. The second month, he, I mean, the acne was next to gone. It was so cleared up. And cystic acne is a big deal. Cystic acne is a big deal. It's like a big giant welt on your face. It really was devastating his confidence. And so that was very clear.

Starting point is 00:35:13 Then by the third month, he was in much better spirits. He was having much more awareness of his, just his emotional reaction to things. Depression was much less overwhelming. And so we started to do the reintroduction process because that is so important. People don't realize how important it is to do the reintroduction process in a structured way, not just throw in like, okay, I'm going to just eat a pizza. Okay. 10 days are over. Boom. I'm going to like live it up. No, we can't do that. We have to be very structured. And that's what I help people with is how do you do this in a way that we can really identify which foods might you need to stay off of a little bit longer. But as we're working to heal the gut, as we talked about before,

Starting point is 00:35:49 how can we bring these foods back in so that you can start having more variety and more diversity? So with him, by the third month, we reintroduced one food at a time. It usually takes about three days each food. We found that when he had cow's milk and gluten, and I think it was corn, those three triggered his symptoms to get worse. So we kept those out, but he was able to have a variety of pretty much all the other foods. We're talking whole foods here. We're not like, oh yeah, try reintroducing MSG. We're not going to do that. But we're talking about whole foods. And it was just, it was remarkable to see the difference and to watch him be able to eat these foods again without problem. Yeah. It's pretty amazing when you see this. That's why I

Starting point is 00:36:29 say, you know, if I, if I had one tool to use on a deserted island as a doctor, it would be this. It's usually the place I start. It's really what, you know, I've written about in so many of my books, whether it's a 10 day detox diet or food protection to eat. All that. Yeah, all those things are really just understanding that food is driving so much inflammation. And inflammation is causing most of our chronic diseases that affect 6 out of 10 Americans. And they're also driving weight gain. People don't understand that if you have a food sensitivity, you could be eating the right foods, but you may be just not able to lose weight because of the inflammation. And then also you mentioned mental health. You know, we don't think of depression or

Starting point is 00:37:07 anxiety or OCD or ADD being related to food sensitivities, but they often are. So a lot of the problems that we see are really, really driven by this problem of an imbalance in our ability to tolerate the foods that we should be eating. Yes. And, of course, nobody should be eating processed food and junk food. But even if you're eating, like, good food, like, you know, if you could have, like, you know, dairy could be okay, right? You know, corn should be okay. But some people just – eggs should be okay. Right.

Starting point is 00:37:42 I mean, I had a patient that had debilitating migraines for decades. Turned out she had a very high reaction to eggs. Yes. Got the eggs and her migraines were gone. I know. It's a common one. So sometimes it's super simple. And so just, you know, I figure people can do anything for 10 days, a couple of weeks. And if you try it, if you've never done it in your life, it's worth a try. Absolutely. Because, you know, you can really see a radical change very quickly. And we've created a program called the 10 Day Reset. And you can go to getpharmacy.com and learn about the 10 Day Reset, which is a powerful self-guided, and you can join the group and also get support if you want, but program that allows you to do an elimination diet. And of course, the Ultra Wellness Center here, we're to help you. We have nutrition-only consults. And we have an incredible

Starting point is 00:38:23 team of nutritionists and dieticians here who've been working in this space for a long time and are leaders in the field. And, you know, sometimes it's more nuanced than just taking out the foods. Right. There's, you know, depending on the person, you might have bacterial overgrowth in your gut and bad bugs growing. So you have to eliminate all the fermentable foods. Right. Or you might have histamine intolerance or you might have, you know, fructose intolerance. So we're very good at diagnosing, you know, those things which are unique to you being a problem.

Starting point is 00:38:49 Individual. Individualizing. And when you do, it's like a miracle. Except it's not really a miracle. It's just good science and it's good medicine. It's what we should all be doing. Seems like a miracle. But still, this whole area of food sensitivities, unfortunately,

Starting point is 00:39:03 is something that traditional medicine is just a total blind spot to. Yeah. And maybe because they don't like the testing. And I don't think the testing is a foolproof system. Right. It's not perfect. You know, you're looking for patterns. So when I see 26 foods, I'm like, she's not allergic to 26 foods.

Starting point is 00:39:18 Right. She's got a leaky gut. The gut is gone. Let me fix her gut. And then here we are. And not only is she looking better on paper, but all of her chronic fatigue symptoms are gone. She feels better. She's doing so much better. So at the Ultra Wellness Center here, we are really focused on getting to the root of people's

Starting point is 00:39:34 problems. And we're now seeing people virtually. You can come virtually and visit us and consult with us. We're happy to see you. We're also running a Eliminate to Feel Great. Maybe we should change the Eliminate. I don't know. We got to figure out a better marketing for this elimination diet, the healing diet or something like that. They're going to be done by Zoom.

Starting point is 00:39:56 It'll be led by one of our nutritionists who's going to guide the group through an elimination and reintroduction process. You can look at the Ultra Wellness Center website, call our office at the Ultra Wellness Center website, call our office at the Ultra Wellness Center, check on our Facebook page for the exact date. It's going to be five weeks long. It's going to be fabulous. If you've never done it, it's great to do it with a group because then you feel like you can compare notes, you get the support. And it's a pretty remarkable strategy for

Starting point is 00:40:18 creating healing. And Lisa, I am so excited for you having your first appearance here on the Dr. Swansley podcast. Hope many more. Yes, me too. And I think we're just really glad and gifted to have you here and teaching us about nutrition and working with our patients. So thank you so much. Thank you. The honor is mine. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:40:38 And if you've been listening to this podcast and you loved it, please share it with your friends and family on social media. Leave a comment. We'd love to hear from you. Maybe your experiences with elimination diets and what that's done for you and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And we'll see you next time on The Doctor's Pharmacy. Thank you, Mark. Hey, everybody. It's Dr. Hyman. Thanks for tuning into The Doctor's Pharmacy.

Starting point is 00:41:08 I hope you're loving this podcast. It's one of my favorite things to do and introducing you all the experts that I know and I love and that I've learned so much from. And I want to tell you about something else I'm doing, which is called Mark's Picks. It's my weekly newsletter. And in it, I share my favorite stuff

Starting point is 00:41:23 from foods to supplements to to gadgets, to tools, to enhance your health. It's all the cool stuff that I use and that my team uses to optimize and enhance our health. And I'd love you to sign up for the weekly newsletter. I'll only send it to you once a week on Fridays, nothing else, I promise. And all you do is go to drhyman.com forward slash PICS to sign up. That's drhyman.com forward slash PICS, P-I-C-K-S, and sign up for the newsletter, and I'll share with you my favorite stuff that I use to enhance my health and get healthier and better and live younger longer.

Starting point is 00:41:58 Now back to this week's episode. Hi, everyone. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner. If you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, you can visit ifm.org and search their find a practitioner database. It's important that you have someone in your corner who's trained, who's a licensed healthcare practitioner, and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health.

The Dr. Hyman Show - A Simple Diet Experiment That May Solve Most Of Your Health Issues with Lisa Dreher

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