The Dr. Hyman Show - How Chefs Can Be Doctors, and Doctors Can Be Chefs with David Bouley

Episode Date: July 10, 2019

Many of us are in the middle of an identity crisis when it comes to what we eat. We’re pulled one way or another about macronutrients and labels, all the while missing the most important concept of all: food is medicine. We can align our foods to feed our health and get incredible flavor and variety all at once. We can cook our way out of illness and overcome the fear and overwhelm of dietary choices by getting more personal with our kitchens.  There’s no one better than the world-renowned Chef David Bouley to dive into this topic with— he’s this week’s guest on The Doctor’s Farmacy. Among many accolades, Bouley earned several four-star reviews in The New York Times; seven James Beard Foundation awards for best restaurant and best chef; he was named “Best Chef in America” by Herald-Tribune; he received the TripAdvisor Traveler’s Choice Awards “The Best Restaurant in the United States” and #14 in the world; a 29 out of 30 rating in Zagat, and ranked #1 in New York City for many years. Chef Bouley is known as one of the most health-conscious chefs in the world, with a strong focus for diners with health concerns. He is currently contracted for a new book, Living Pantry, that will provide the building blocks for home cooking to deliver great taste and health benefits with easy execution.

Coming up on this week's episode of The Doctor's Pharmacy. The whole idea of chef and doctor, really, they are the same. Welcome to The Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm Dr. Mark Hyman, and that's pharmacy with an F, F-A-R-M-A-C-Y, a place for conversations that matter. And today's guest is Chef David Boulay, who I've known for a long time. He's one of the top chefs in the world. Has taught me so much about food as medicine. As a doctor, I spent my life studying food as medicine. And the things I learned from David, I never learned anywhere else. He's an extraordinary guy.

His restaurant, Boulay in Tribeca, was really the number one restaurant in New York for a long, long time. It was, I think, the best restaurant in the United States. It was 14 in the world. It is really an extraordinary place. I've eaten there many times. He's been named the best chef in America by the Herald Tribune. He's one of the few chefs in the world who understands the role of food as medicine in a way that even I learned from using innovative novel and creative ingredients from all over the world that create transformations in the

body and healing in ways that are not typical and that combine incredible flavor and deliciousness with incredible healing that makes people feel good after you leave a restaurant instead of feeling like a food coma problem. His approach won him a Lifetime Achievement Award from Dr. Peter Green, who is the Director of Celiac Disease at Columbia, a Lifetime Achievement Award from Dr. Peter Green, who is the Director of Celiac Disease at Columbia, a Lifetime Achievement Award from Dr. Barry Smith at the Rogerson Institute, and he's a professor of clinical surgery at Weill Cornell Medical College. He's had the most extraordinary career.

His latest project is a new event venue where I do events with him called the Chef and the Doctor Series. We'll talk about that, The Boulet Test Kitchen. And he's got Boulet at Home, which is this new restaurant concept. And there's three 14-foot kitchen counters where guests dine with chefs preparing their meals on domestic appliances right in front of them. He's creating a new project called the Living Pantry, a new book, and he's building a new restaurant down in Harrison Street. So it's really an extraordinary pleasure to have you, David, on The Doctor's Pharmacy.

Your work has been an inspiration to me, and I love eating your food. I can eat all night long, eat all of it. It seems like a lot of food, never feel stuffed, full, sick, or anything, and I actually feel better than when I walked in, which is pretty awesome. That's good. So welcome, David. Thank you. Take us back to the start of your journey.

You grew up on your parents' farm in Storrs, Connecticut. You studied in France, Nouveau Cuisine, in the 70s and 80s. You brought all that inspiration and wisdom to here. And how did that experience sort of make an impact on you and inspire your appreciation for cooking and the whole world of healing foods foods well thank you for having me on mark there's been a lot of time that we haven't spent to talk about we could talk for hours we have talked for hours yeah initially when my family came from france my grandparents bought land in a house in wind socket and also also in Jamestown, Rhode Island,

but right on the water and had a big farm. So I grew up in an area that was normal to raise rabbits and pheasants and many acres of fruit trees and raise chickens and all that was what I grew up since a small child. Of course, in the house in Jamestown, we ate really fresh fish, particularly in those days, you know, the late 50s and 60s. So, this was something that set standards for me. And I never wanted to be a chef then. I actually never went to cooking school. And I studied business in school. And then I decided I need to travel. You know, I read a little bit of Kerouac and oh yeah on the road get on the road and so moved around in some different areas new mexico california colorado ended up in france

studying there and then started to work in bistros again and then from there uh to make pocket money still not thinking i would be a chef i went to work for uh gast Holt, the great pastry chef. And then from there, they sent me to Roger Verger at the Moulin de Mougin. This is 77, 76, 77. So when I saw what they were doing, I realized, well, this is unbelievable. They have every part of culture involved in this. They have all the communities involved in this, art. There's history. There's beauty of uh design you know there's a relationship with this community and i thought well i got to do this in the states so over the

years we we developed uh we started boulet in 87 after a huge success in 85 when we opened montrachet but at that time we took the butter and cream off and the menu because people couldn't digest it. There was just an overuse of that kind of, those products that are not easily digestible for a lot of folks. And to accelerate quickly, we started the Tasty Menu. Through the Tasty Menu, we learned a lot about people's idiosyncrasies and other things

that helped us to know how we should cook for folks so we were already in this mood of cultivating knowledge from our consumer in the late 80s also we spent a lot of money with farmers and seed catalogs and put a lot of stuff on the market including the fingerling potato rick rick bishop hadn't been on the state's side of all these peruvian potatoes these heirloom potatoes weren't in the market here you went down to peru and you found them well he did they brought him to canada quarantined they went he had his master degree ph master degree from cornell agricultural school so we were developing things that were shocking people when they would get the

menu for dessert they would say no no no. Just bring another bowl of that potato puree. So we realized that the ingredients would have the attention as well, not just what we did with them. And growing up as a kid with ingredients, I have always thought I was a chef of ingredients. And then quickly to get ahead, when that was working well, as you can imagine imagine that was a relationship where a lot of people weren't in a restaurant business developing they didn't have so much

experience with tasting menu so we would know how to cook for you but then you come in with a bunch of friends and they're all different now we have to make them it just as happy as you so we had to learn how to spool things out of the air and have building blocks that we could execute for your friends who might have different tastes than you but through that whole process we developed an incredible list of repertoire of things that we could execute very quickly that were pure that didn't weren't combined usually more than one ingredient and because of that palette we could execute meals on the moment and have highlights of either complex foods or very simple foods but still giving people the joy and pleasure by using the knowledge like your family would so next what

evolved was quickly uh this autoimmune disease started to happen and instead of a few requests of low sodium we had a novel coming to the kitchen and at that point i was trying to get the chef and doctor series started but i couldn't find doctors and they would say to me david i had 23 hours of nutritional classes i'm not sure i attended all of them i don't know what to talk to you about or talk to them about in terms of food yeah but then people like you were pioneers in terms of treating systems, not symptoms. And quickly enough, there was a explosion, a combustion. There was a combustion with integrated preventive alternative or today I think we're calling it individualized medicine,

the whole new movement, of which is no different than what my uncles in France who are holistic doctors well into the 80s and 90s now uh always try to teach me they teach me in the 70s saying that those american doctors they say if it ain't broke don't fix it and my uncle would say but if you're already having a increase in certain areas you've got to get back to a balanced body and this is how we should be thinking about that so i would hear things like food is great joy productive calories and food is a cure yeah but i would hear that in the 70s now i couldn't really say that until 2000 and something and to talk to people like you who understood not only what that

meant yeah but had the evidence in their practice and the experience of sharing that knowledge and employing it and so that's why we started the chef and doctor series which is fantastic by the way your event um which is uh happening is gonna it has been sold out and there's an incredible amount of people want to come in so that's exciting you are in demand so yeah i mean the whole idea of chef and doctor really they are the same and in order for a doctor to be a healer he needs to learn how to use food as medicine and in order for chefs to create amazing delicious food that heals you need to understand food as medicine i remember when i was at canyon ranch it was a health spa health resort in the late 90s and i got everybody

together nutritionists the owners the chefs and we all sat around this big meeting and I just got up and said, you know, we have an extraordinary opportunity here at this place. It's a healing health spa to make food as medicine and incorporate that in the menu. And the head chef got up and he was indignant. He says, this is not a effing hospital. This is a, you know, and he was just going crazy about this simple idea that we could have healing foods and yet you've going crazy about this simple idea that we could have healing foods. And yet you've been thinking about this for so long.

Yeah. In fact, when you were up in, that would be up in Lenox. Yeah. So I was in Candy Ranch in Tucson and I was spending hours sitting with Dr. Geerhauser. Remember him? Yeah. All right. So in those days, I felt that I was, you know, just what an opportunity for somebody to talk to me

uh and for me to ask him so many questions so it was we had an incredible amount of time in the 90s and later yeah and i was curious about every kind of test that we could take because um i can't remember the owner of the king of mel but mel flew me out there in the 80s yeah and asked me if i could help him and unlike uh the chef that you just mentioned which sometimes it's uh we have it on both sides sometimes doctors believe that only science uh certain doctors will believe that only science can really cure people uh and then we have the arrogance of chefs who think that you know this is the only way i'm going to cook uh when i what i saw there was at that time was a lot of food that was even though

it was clean it wasn't what we call living food a lot of things that were in bottles and different kinds of things like this that i said i don't know. It often wasn't that tasty. Right, often it's not. In fact, I'm always amazed that not this place, but other places could do a much better job. And I had been to Michel Garade in the south of France. I don't know if you know that family, but they have that huge spa in Eugene-les-Bains, which family goes back, I think, eight or nine generations.

And Michel was one of the pioneers of Nouveau cuisine, one of the first chefs who had the whole world drawn into his restaurant in Paris. So when I went there, I saw, wow, this is amazing what he's doing. And I did that in 1989, I think, with his big herb gardens integrating people understand about plants. And to go back a little bit earlier, there was a farm

called caperlands in coventry connecticut and this lady wrote over 50 books on gardening and plants and herbs she had 100 acres and we used to go with our whole team there wow on two rented buses on a sunday and we would cook with her chef and And I insisted, well, she made the demands, but everybody had to take a three-hour lecture by her before we go into her 1760 saltbox houses and we would just cook together and spend the whole day. Not even a quarter mile from Nathan Hill Homestead. So she had a homestead like Nathan Hill Homestead.

And we'd all walk to plants. And she had at that time probably 40 red basils and 70 green basils this is going back in the 80s so before all the all the microgreens and herb blossoms and all this she was one adele simmons was yeah so you know there was a foundation of things that i hadn't really yeah employed as much as I could until I realized the strength of health and how do we share and get people to execute and feel more comfortable with areas have great flavor but a great service of health too amazing and that's where we are today amazing and as you know we just finished a two year documentary in it with NHK yeah the Japanese natural broadcasting. And the producer told me two weeks ago that usually their ratings is five out of 10.

And this one has a nine rating right now. Amazing. It's the magic of a dish. Great journey of training in Japan. Right, right. So it was supposed to be for outside of Japan. But I asked so many questions that every night I heard the whole production team saying,

we didn't know this, we didn't know that, through the translators. And we realized that they also, who are a society that's obsessed with health, sometimes have a credit life or take things for granted. And this was a sort of resurging of all the health benefits in the Japanese culture to the Japanese. It will come here at some point. It's a three-hour documentary. There's three more 30 minutes coming. But through that, we work with biochemists, biologists, neurologists, gastrologists, cardiologists,

all kinds of practitioners, deans of agriculture. We were in a half a dozen labs. And we took a biochemist to holly lab up in cornell last november and did a collaboration with lactic acid bacteria from fermented vegetable tops going back 500 years incredible and he studied it for two and a half years all the benefits from to like nad and microcondier support so where this was shocking for those food physiologists up there. So in a way, our mission was to break down the barriers. You're a silo of success.

So the chef is bringing the science to the scientists, which is fascinating. Well, you know, sometimes it works that way. I remember this woman used to run the marathon every year, and when I had a little restaurant called Upstairs, which you ate one time. Yeah, yeah, I did. I remember. You ate there actually a couple times. There was a woman that came every year for when I had a little restaurant called upstairs which you ate one time yeah I did and I ate there actually a couple times there was a

woman that came every year for the marathon she had 2,000 or 20,000 babies on a database or whatever and I remember three weeks before we were in Kyoto studying about the bacteria of a woman particularly for childbirth versus C cesarean and I was telling her what I learned and she made me feel like I didn't understand anything that they taught me I remember going home telling my wife I just really misunderstood everything that they were talking about and then next year she came back again I wasn't in that building I was in one of the other restaurants she came looking for me and she was telling me that I was right and that she

saw the direct correlation of immune system with a natural birth and ceaseless hearing. So that night I went home and told my wife, I don't know if I should feel good or if I should be bad. Why is a chef telling a woman who is focused on this what I learned in Kielo? So that was 12 or 14 years ago. That was compelling to me and getting results already from other folks like this girl who had Crohn's

disease that was in tears in a dining room. And my staff thought that she was having an argument with her husband, but she was frightened because she always would get sick. And 14 courses later, we were getting hugs and kisses from her in the kitchen. And she said, that's never happened. So maybe sick people should go to your restaurant instead of the hospital the doctor's well it's you know i'm mentioning these things because food can function yeah it's food is is um extremely powerful and you know the first um and i'm what i'm displaying is why am i so interested in this well when you have these kind of testimonials and you have this kind of behavior from your customers, going all the way back to Mr. Schmiel, you want to know how to do more.

You want to do better. And we needed you folks to join us. And that's one of the things that we're lucky to have with the Chef and Doctor series now, which is like, I used to have to pour a lot of red wine to get the doctors to have the courage and come and talk about food but now we have a waiting list that's so great so david you have arguably one of the top restaurants in new york it was the top restaurant you've been doing this

for 40 years or more 52 years 52 okay 52 years you could just be riding into the sunset, enjoying your life and sort of doing the same thing you've done. And people will come to the restaurant and it's full every night. But you're like, wait a minute, I still need to learn things. And you, a few years ago, closed your flagship restaurant, Boulay, which I had the pleasure of eating in many times. And you went on a sabbatical and you went on to study the relationship of food and health. You took nutrition classes at NYU. You met with renowned doctors like me and others to learn about food. You studied at Harvard Business School. You went to Japan, Peru, Cuba, Switzerland. You consulted with experts to learn about the science of the nature of healing foods

and the science of whole foods. What all of a sudden took you after 52 years in the kitchen doing this sabbatical and changing everything about what you're doing? Well, some of it's still in front of me, like the MBA program up in Carthage Hall is still. I got to get there and get through that one. We're doing classes. I'm coming to your graduation. There is actually a graduation. I'm sure you're familiar with the program.

20% are Americans, 80% are outside the country. So you're learning a lot about the same values, concerns, isolated issues that we're all sharing, particularly in business. So I know I'm going to learn a lot there and make some new friends. Even in one class alone, i built two relationships from brazil that have been really helping me and they're trying to do the same thing i'm trying to do so why i took time off was what i was mentioning you know a few moments ago when you're having results some customers and even the doctors you know they when i started to ask doctors to do the

chef and doctor series i don't know if you're one of them, but many doctors were drawing blood the next day. And so they were like, how is he doing this? Triglycerides in the low 60s and HDL high, even lipids were very shocking. Blood sugar balance in the morning after 12 courses. The first one that read his blood market test on a radio with millions of people living in California was Nick Gonzalez. Yeah. Right, and the other doctors challenged him.

Like, how could that be? And you had all that food. So food is still, in this country, an identity crisis. You know, I think that there's too many people talking uh that's what we need it's people like you and your success your contribution is outstanding and i've been watching people like you get the results um from your patients without having the side effects of you know being treated The only good side effects when you eat the right food. Well, most of the time. And now that I opened this Doctor and Chef series,

I realized it couldn't be a better time to do it because at least one reservation night is in the health practitioner practice. You know, they're somehow connected to what we're all trying to do, which is turn this epidemic around and take some responsibility for how we got here and where we have to go. And if I spent those 30 months in Japan with a country that's number one,

and we're number 42 in longevity, and we're spending a fortune more than so many of these primitive areas, I guess it's not working so well. So what I'm trying to do, Mark, is answer your question here, is there's no fuel that's greater than having a passion that you're seeing having an action in people's lives. And I'm sure you know what that's about. You've been doing this for a long

time yourself and you seem every time I see you like a young person in their 20s. I'm going to be 60 this year. yourself and you seem every time you see you like a young person in their 20s you know you just well join the club it's the beginning of 40 right you know the japanese say it's beginning of your second life so um it's amazing i did my telomeres which measures your biological age and i'm 39 i'm hoping that oh really oh great you're lucky we actually did some studies in some of the prefectures and certain people had a biological age of 30 percent younger than the car so it was interesting to see how these lifestyles can slow down aging but i think to answer the question it's it's not as complicated it's uh boule at home is to clear up the myths that are so out there everywhere. Americans have a crowded lifestyle.

They don't know who to listen to, who to trust. There seems to be even some, you know, exposure they feel in terms of even their health practitioners, who should they listen to. And I think that when, for instance, when I was at the University of Connecticut when they had given me an honorary PhD over there, I was basically, I realized I have 22 minutes. Don't do this if it's a Saturday night graduation at 6 p.m. I thought the right time. So you could feel the energy.

And I walked out there. I felt like I was in a Roman gladiator, you know. And no, I'm not going to have anyone's intention until things are flying. So I said to them, congratulations on a foundation of education. We have 22 minutes to talk about a foundation of health. But at some point, I was giving them a toolbox, bioglycemic index at Kmart for 20 something dollars. And if your sugar is high after a meal, your food didn't service you. And you could do the same with a heart rate monitor. And after a meal your food didn't service you and you could do the same with a heart rate monitor and after a few hours you may have a digestive issue if you're having a heart rate fluctuation so use this toolbox until you listen to your body and you won't need the toolbox but

i want to make sure they're listening so i read a line from mark twain 1857 beware of health books you may die from a misprint and of course they all went crazy and then I had their attention but it was fascinating to walk out because I'm still answering your question I'm taking a long walk is that I heard some people say because the campus was empty and when I walked out I heard people say great speech and I didn't see anybody around except for three policemen and I walked over and I said excuse me and the one on the left said to me we hear a lot of speeches but we never heard one like that before and the one in the middle said can i really do that with my sugar and the one on the right the lieutenant he said you made me curious

and then i walked two blocks to get back to the hotel on campus to find my family my sister who got a phd i was driving around a young man and he can't find his parking lot where he put his car he's got to get back to base camp and all he talked about was in military they're not trained to think about health so and then finally I get into the elevator push the button go in the hotel and there's a family in there and I hear the young woman still in rope say see grandpa I told you pa has way too much omega-6 and we have to help him with that. So I realized this is why I'm doing what I'm doing. If we can get people to understand they can cook meals that are going to give them a lot more energy, a lot more clarity, a better night's sleep, stronger during the day, and have fun and really enjoy the taste, this is a quite exciting mission.

So you've gone all over the world. You've explored cuisines from everywhere. You've looked at ingredients that nobody's using. And you brought them into your restaurants. I've eaten the food. It's unbelievable. And for example, you have crackers that are made from kudzu, which is a root, a Japanese root.

It's like a starchy thing. More of a vine. It's more fiber than starch. And tell us about k Japanese root. It's like a starchy thing. More of a vine. It's more fiber than a starch. And tell us about kuzu. It's delicious. And what does it do? Well, kuzu goes back 1,000 years in Japan. Yeah.

In fact, I went to a 14-century, 14-generation family in the mountains in the south of Japan. And they have an early black-and- white photograph of one of the emperors where they're picking up blocks of kuzu. And this saved this man's life. He had a digestive problem. The samurai would suck on the branches when they had digestive problems or colds or other issues.

And they were constantly healed from the kuzu. Heals the gut forgot it's only been used for 30 years 35 years in cuisine even in japan or longer in monasteries because when you go through a monastery or have a cleanse of your soul and your spirit the first thing you eat is kuzu noodles so that's where i was introduced then by mr suji from suji cooking school who has the biggest school in the world he's in osaka in tokyo a dear friend and he exposed me to that and then i brought it back and i was making a desserts for different people using no sugar and i was using no gelatin because kuzu will set up if you can make noodles like cornstarch you think yeah it's it's way better

yeah it's not something that has an effect of glycemic. Yeah. It's not those level of carbohydrates. Yeah. So, again, it's higher fiber. The mystery is that it stabilizes blood sugar. It doesn't reduce blood sugar. It will stabilize it.

And we've wired people up. And I've cooked for them with those. I don't know if we have them yet. Continuous glucose monitors. Yeah, yeah, right. Are they here yet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, we didn't see any movement yeah doesn't change your blood sugar no eating crackers right and the story well we make bread out of it crackles make noodles you're

gonna have it tonight three or four courses uh the the evidence was uh particularly with uh lou reed one night was eating in the private room and his friends had a tasty menu, but he didn't want to eat. And he had to go walk on the wild side. Yeah. He took a walk on the wild side. He wanted to be empty cause he was doing an album next morning in Brooklyn, but probably really early in the morning. And he, you know, like an athlete didn't want to go with food. So, um, I made this orange where I cooked the orange juice down, thickened with the,

Kuz, we put the wedges in, put in the martini glass, put in the refrigerator, let it set up, put lychee sorbet and granulated honey. So there's three forms of sugar there. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't add anything outside of those three elements except for kuzu. Yeah. Right. Now, he had one because I made it for him one time before. And then he ordered another one.

And then he went home and checked blood sugar because he was diabetic. Yeah. And he couldn't believe that his blood sugar was stable. He hadn't eaten anything else. I remember he said eight hours at least. And I think he was going to do the album only three or four hours after this. This could have been even the people

that he was going to work with. Yeah. But they had a long taste menu. So we're closed on Sunday. We're open on Monday. He's looking for me. And I didn't realize how important it was for me to answer his question when he grabbed my arm and said, I want to know what you did to me. I want

to know what you did to me. My blood sugar. So at that point, that was like 15 years ago, we started to study. And even going back to Japan, we had to work with folks. Some of them had some knowledge on it. Some of them hadn't. Yeah. So that would be an example of a culture of food or cuisine that can translate into another culture without having side effects. Like all these people drinking raw soy milk. Well, Asians don't really enjoy raw soy milk. It's always fermented or in a fermented drink. Right. So as you know, estrogen, hormone, other problems are occurring or other kinds of things that the business machine gets all excited about

because there's soy products yeah you know there's a hint of evidence of health benefits and but they don't they don't have the time or they don't have the full knowledge in terms of how this culture uses it and sometimes the ancient preparations actually modify the food in such a way to make the ingredients more available more healing more absolutely good for you in fact there was a an older PhD Dean eating about two months ago and I was explained I knew him but I didn't know him and he was barking at me and you know I'd love to be lectured to and and he challenged me about food and all these different things and he's talking he's looking at the videos and I said well very soon their videos are gonna be synchronized to what you're eating and

now we're building in that little apple square box there where you can scan a menu and you can see the difference between Ceylon cinnamon and the other hundred nineteen cinnamon you might learn a little about golden seal or maybe you are gonna explore a berberine or maybe you're gonna learn more about black seed oil yeah and you know these powerful uh uh supporting health they have no side effects yeah and then you know we talked and he said to me david i know what you're doing you're extracting from science you're extracting from gastronomy but you're also extracting from communities of health where it's not quantified by science. It's a mystery.

And some of these things is true. So when I'm bringing things over, like lactic acid bacteria from fermented foods, that could be a huge benefit to Americans because they don't eat enough fermented foods. That's right. So you also served me once in your restaurant something called cognac. And it wasn't the drink.

Right. Yeah. You have it in the 10-day detox. I do. I do. I have used it many times. I have said. It's a root.

It's a Japanese root. Yeah. That's more of a, like a mountain potato. Yeah. You know, and. Is that mountain yam? Is that what they call it? Yeah.

It's more in that category it can go up to 92 percent fiber yeah right so uh you make noodles out of it and there's zero calories zero calories right and it doesn't have an effect on your blood sugar it actually lowers your blood pressure and lowers your blood pressure lowers cholesterol yeah it's insoluble fiber so we we know a lot about that and we know that we need to know more about fibers and it seems as though since all this explosion on microbiome that we're learning about insoluble fibers so we we know a lot about that and we know that we need to know more about fibers and it seems as though since all this explosion of microbiome that we're learning about insoluble insoluble fibers and we realize each one of them have a huge benefit we have to learn how to balance them where they come from the foods and then that gets into the science of food which the

french know a lot about how do you make this cognac stuff in your restaurant well we use it like the japanese when i discovered i brought a chef over to help me we were bringing up to Wegmans food stores you know Danny Wegmans very interested in helping people with health and he's selling good food so we brought a chef over who was really well known written like 10 books and he had a bag and i asked my friend who's a journalist uh who lived here for many years he's an intellectual um perfect language of both demand command and i said what's what's uh what's this here it says 37 what is that 37 and he said well that's 37 fiber i said what is that and he told me it was kunyaku but it's grated to look

like rice and then i learned later this was like uh 12 years ago that many japanese people mix that into their rice ah they eat rice morning lunch and dinner and they don't have an effect of sugar yeah because they add this fiber yeah right so i figured So I figured out who was on 60 Minutes. Wasn't it somebody in 60 Minutes puts fiber in a Coke and said, now you can drink that? You're still going to need 20 glasses of water to adjust your pH, but at least you're not going to get a sugar climb. I mean, that's where we are with this confusion.

It's crazy. So, yeah, the cognac coup is used, grated. It's pickled. When you buy it, you just have to blanch it for a minute and then you can grill it it's made in noodles they call them shirataki noodles right right they're like pasta essentially which which is zero calories tons of fiber lowers your blood sugar and tastes great this last time we went to japan we were in an area outside of kyoto and i'm going to go back to work with a monastery it's being organized

it's going to be a rare event okay a westerner a westerner can get into a monastery and uh this very old family that has been watching me for a while i think i've i finally won the merits i'm wondering if i have to shave my head or not but i told him i would if i could spend a few weeks in the monastery so they don't need to protein they don't eat the animals the kunyaku is can be grilled and has the texture like a worked gluten when you work with gluten that's the way they do it and they it juice you know it kind of almost has the fat coming out like when you're eating animals yeah so the monks like to have those two textures yeah cognac ooh is usually in a block in a store you don't have to have it in just noodles but all you do is blanch it and then you

can cook it bake it saute grill it you do anything with it it tastes great yeah once you know once you use it in a recipe don't have a lot of flavor by itself yeah but you do have to blanch it or boil it to take out a powerful medicinal food yeah i recommend it as part of my treatment for diabetics i use it as a as a medicine actually and it's better to eat it well when you do that i'm glad because i have used your uh success on the book in my sometimes in presentations i have to speak to corporations i'll say you know the the food industry is finally learning a lot of things that they can uh make an income which they're entitled to make and have to make without having a exposure of health and i'll say why is this

cognac cool uh vegetable going from a Japanese culture where it's used in homes and restaurants and everywhere into a successful preventive doctor's book on reducing sugar and detox? Dr. In diabetes and sugar addiction. Dr. Right, right. Dr. It's lots of sugar addiction, yeah. Dr. Why isn't it being used in cookbooks? It goes from a food culture of health into a professional's book of recipes and people

respond at the same time i'm talking with my left hand my right hand i'll talk about the almond milk craze yeah and then i'll read all the collagen all the different things and i'll say all the junk in it yeah we learn a lot of people uh some of our customers have uh talked to me about that and they say develop uh problems you know with sinus and throat and issues. And I'll learn from them, well, what are you doing? They say, well, I'm eating really healthy. I'm not eating dairy anymore. I'm doing all this almond milk.

And I was like, okay, tell me about the almond milk. And then I read this 12, 14 things in there. And by the way, you've already noticed, it's going down very quickly. So when I talk to the businessman, I'll say, well well here's an alternative to dairy for certain people the business machine is uh trying to you know expand and come to the plate oh but they're not doing such a great job let me read off and then I'll pick up malk m-a-l-k first ingredient sprouted organic almonds next a purified well water third Himalayan salt that's it that's it that's it that's the recipe

that we follow our own milk with so the business machine is evolving and i'll pick up the beet drink because you know you could talk about beets and all the magnesium all the benefits polyphenols and all that yeah but high sugar but if we ferment it we can lose 90 of the sugar so i'll pick that up with the left hand and say well here we are it's evolving business machine is doing a good job oh but read this 30 of your daily sodium not so good well maybe this one three percent sugar five percent sodium so the business chain is on the team you've also gone to other places and picked up foods that people don't really think of eating that you've learned have powerful medicinal effects like sea urchin and i try to i mean

people go oh sea urchin i remember the first to, I mean, people go, ooh, sea urchin. I remember the first time I ate it, my sister brought me to this Japanese restaurant and was like a little piece of probably stale sea urchin on top of some rice. I'm like, ooh, this is terrible. But the stuff you make is extraordinary. And this is a sort of an underappreciated

and underutilized seafood that is incredibly powerful and it's healing property. So share a little bit about what you learned. On the NHK documentary, the last prefecture was Hokkaido, and that's all the way in the north, the island in the north, where most of their kombu comes from. Kombu is seaweed. Seaweed, right.

In particular, seaweed is four grades. The northern part is the highest quality for the top chefs, and as we continue down to be used more for cooking or powders or doing different things and up there we work with a professor from some poor University those papers are not published yet but they have 18 years of research they have studied surgeons all over the world particularly in Chile which is a real big source of sea urchin. Chile? Yeah Chile and right now we're using California, Chile and Hokkaido. But there is, I forget what it is, because again my vocabulary is you know not, it's going to be in third grade language in terms of yours in terms of compounds. But there is a carotenoid in sea urchin focal something a lot of doctors don't

know and by 80% of don't this binds with lipids and what makes it orange is this carotenoid yes carotenoid carotenoid right that's right so that this and other compounds will bind with certain lipids. And they feel they have two. Infects your cholesterol, you mean. Reduces cholesterol, reduces sugar level. Helps with people with diabetes and prediabetes. And they have two international patents. They have a huge amount of capital.

And soon they're going to send those papers to global health practitioners universities and those papers on NHK you could see that it was written there was highly confidential in English and Japanese and Chinese so we think we are studying more about this but I have a lot of papers I could share them with you. Yeah when I was at your restaurant the other night you showed me a whole bunch of scientific papers. Yeah I have about 12 feet of it. It's like the chef comes to the doctor with a list of scientific papers while he's having dinner at the restaurant. You kind of love that. Well, I went to, well, anyways, they think those folks that they have, they're going to build this.

It's not a capsule. It's more like a compressed supplement they think that this is going to have an effect on the global issue of sugar and pre-diabetes amazing just using sea urchin yeah is there enough to go around well they they have a huge amount of capitals to build aqua aqua farming up in hokkaido so in other words aqua aquaculture for sea urchin yeah yeah exactly yeah because up there you have a lot of water movements you have the cleanest water the best seaweed particularly up in the north. I don't know all the details we're going to do but they did tell us that they are

putting all this together and they've already accomplished two international patents on a product of which they have huge capital and they they have the science and they're just going to finish their papers and then distribute them in the world of science. And then they're on their way. Yeah, it is unbelievable. So you're basically taking these ingredients that have been used in food, but you're sort of being sophisticated about it and actually incorporating them into the menus in a way that creates a whole healing menu. Like you were talking about salmon. And the heads of salmon have this unusual cartilage that is used for healing.

Tokyo University is working, and you'll see it when the documentary comes, that when you open a salmon, it's the only fish that has a huge amount of cartilage. And the Asians always make a soup from the head. Fish head soup. Right. Particularly the salmon. And Norwegians as well and that russians as well chinese so that fat well that breaks down and they know there's a certain bioavailability

from that but not enough so we brought a phd who lectured in as a chef and doctor series about where he is on his thesis and how they're in fact when i was in tokyo last week i went to a special health food store and some of the products based on other fish like fin of fish and other things shark fin other fin they have already succeeded to have a greater bioavailability of absorption into our body and becomes functional so they are now addressing this they have already seven years of work and i think they're getting close to it in fact they gave me their first sample um it's all in japanese but i'm willing to give you food and i and i've been taking it

for a few weeks to see you know because i've started to feel my knees i used to run a lot and my knees are i don't feel anything anymore i don't know if it's that or the Pilates I'm doing, but no, this is example of transferring a culture that has great health from food into our culture where it's not esoteric or like, Oh, I'm not going to eat that. That's seaweed. Right. Or other areas that they feel uncomfortable. And that's why I'm wearing this jacket. Because as much as there's silos of success, and there are a lot today,

and everyone's thinking about health, at the end of the day, it has to taste good. It has to be something they're comfortable with from a texture point. And if we can accomplish this, we know the business machine is right there to drive this, hopefully. And if they can, they'll turn this issue of health around faster than the government or anyone else because they'll be making income out of it. I'm an optimist. I think that we can get there.

It's exciting. It's starting to happen. I mean, even just in the last few years, there's been some really big shifts. Like Tulane has a whole institute of culinary medicine where the doctors in medical school learn how to become chefs and cook with foods that are healing you've got guys like David Eisenberg putting on courses on on creating healing foods and actually having doctors cook you you have a food is medicine program and doctors who are for example cardiologists leading the world in in nutrition research and science like Dr. Mazzafari and at Tufts, who's created a whole food is medicine program. You've got shifts happening where people are beginning to think about this.

Yeah, laboratories are being changed. So I think they're in the process of building a critical laboratory. has done very sophisticated chemical analysis of ingredients in food and match them against drugs and find that for the same conditions, the foods actually are more powerful. Berberine would be one of those. I have given berberine. I've told people to take it and I always tell them, make sure you talk to the doctor because some of the foods that we'll talk about, we know that they do function.

And if you're on a medication already, it could, it could have a greater effect to the combination so make sure you talk to your doctor but berberine i have given it to so many business executives and they'll come back and have another function with us they'll say to me at the front door david i've lost 14 pounds i lost 16 pounds i haven't changed anything in my lifestyle on my diet in the last four or five months but i am taking berberine for sugar right and i'm not sugar and inflammation and yeah and i'm not a doctor but i can kind of see those folks who are having issues with sugar or having issues with pre and probiotics yeah they don't have a

functioning uh digestive system and we're learning a lot about that so you talk about that a lot in your restaurant where you have people come in with digestive problems with Crohn's disease or just irritable bowel. And they leave and their digestion feels okay. A lot of times you go to a restaurant and you go, oh, you know, the food was good. But I feel like crap and my stomach isn't feeling great. And yours is the opposite. Yeah, this restaurant that we have now has got me even more excited. I mean, I can't even sleep.

I'm reading so many books right now because I'm there with the people. I'm talking to, like Lydia Knight said, I just told my husband we're gonna walk to 82nd Street in West End because I eat twice as much food or more here and I have more energy. Usually I'm falling asleep with half the amount of food. I'm sleeping on his shoulder and texting on the way home. I hear those stories.

Or the man that was sitting on the last counter, and I went around the counter and I said, how are you tonight for a minute? I went to the other table and he told me, I don't know what you're doing to me, but I never get this much energy. When I came back, he said to me, this is my doctor. We don't understand why my blood sugar is not moving.

I have one kidney and I'm feeling great. I never eat this much food. Or those two Ivy League professors on day two who came in and I gave them a bunch of books. I actually gave them one of your books. Yeah. And they were saying, well, we're economists. They said, okay. And we all laughed.

And I said, why don't we have a verbal contract? And they said, why? I said, we're going to have a verbal contract. You two and your wives, we're going to develop a team on health. Great. What do you want us to do? I said, tomorrow you got to get your blood tested and they said oh we know where to do that and i went to talk to some people they were going day four they were back and they i said hello

thanks coming back and the first thing they said to me was honored the contract and i didn't know what they were talking about but then they looked at me in all serious faces said our doctor says that it appears that you know what you're talking about and their blood marker test got better shocked the doctors particularly they saw the menu they had 14 small plates courses so food here is still something that too many people have a fear of yeah or they just don't understand its potential of flavor and health yeah because every night i hear people say it's true if this is good for me what you just served me wow you know you just can't believe i've literally eaten for four

hours in your restaurant and leave feeling amazing not full not stuffed full of energy and you think you know uh well years ago when i was starting to learn about the kyoto style cuisine i was with mr suji and I asked one of the masters, when they only ate seats, you know, the ones that you wait a year to get into unless you're in their sort of society. And I asked the master, I said, please, Mr. Tsuji, what comes first here? Is it flavor or is it health benefits? Because we had just finished 16, 18 courses.

I felt so much energy. I felt so great. And we hadn't been drinking because it was lunch. And he asked the chef, and I'll never forget the chef's face. I wish I could frame that face. It was like one of such curiosity. What does that mean? Flavor and health are on the same parallel.

That's right. In fact, the flavors in the food, it actually is where the health benefits are. Right. Right? Which is people don't realize and it is not the crappy flavors we use in America, it is the true flavor of real food. I mean, you also talk about interesting things like black seed oil. Black seed oil, yeah. Which is cumin, black cumin seed.

So many doctors, yeah, and nigella and so many people do not know about this but- So, tell us about that because you use it in your cooking. Yeah, I use it a lot. My mother turned me on to that i found it in my refrigerator about 14 years ago and i realized that uh wow they're all talking about this now it tastes horrible but if you mix it with manuka honey and you get the benefits of those antibiotics yeah and uh hydrogen peroxide and other things uh it blends again tastes great but also they have a better function when they're together. So if you Google, you know, the black cumin, black seed oil, you'll see that even in Switzerland, they took 127.

It's a case study floating. You'll find it in a second. 120 or 130 bacteria, even pathogens, that were no longer in control but antibiotics. Black seed oil inhibited 92 of them in Alaska. Wow, it's like a natural antimicrobial. King took it to the grave because he said it was a cure for everything but death. So it's been around.

It's been in Roman, Ayurvedic, Persian, Chinese, Japanese, American Indian. And it's just not mainstream. So all these components that you can't copyright you can't make billions of dollars on you can't synthesize they're there waiting for you if you have a health challenge or possibly a lot of folks who are on the wearer side particularly Europeans they'll have this digestive benefits regularly because they know this is part of their preventive measures for instance my uncle is this way and the other thing which is interesting is when I started

having doctor series one of the Dean's in New York he was the second you were right up in the first group but he was he started you know it's now a PowerPoint as you know a 45-minute lecture or so, and then we have questions. And I isolate the foods of which the doctor has dedicated the talk to in terms of how they perform, and I prepare dishes with this so that people can understand, gee, our chokes are for prebiotics and asparagus and all these things. People don't even know what prebiotics are sometimes.

Well, anyways, he started with his PowerPoint, two rainbows. The first one was a good doctor tells you what medication to take. Over it, in very large letters, a great doctor takes it away. And I said, can you talk like that? I mean, aren't you a part of it? And he said to me, science is important. We need science. But he said, we believe Americans are more than 85% over-medicated,

and we have to all take some responsibility for that. So this was an alliance that we started 12 years ago, and what is my function is what you described right now. Find those foods that perform, like saffron. Saffron is extremely healthy for you, particularly for your eyes. Or a vanilla bean. A vanilla bean is a pre- and a probiotic. It's a fermented bean. And if everybody is a pre and a probiotic. It's a fermented bean.

And if everybody wants to know more about fermented foods, well, take the vanilla bean out of the sugar and maybe use it in cuisine. So that would be an example. So how do we get these things to become building blocks, which people can execute under their own design? Yeah. Is that your living pantry idea? That's living pantry.

Tell us about living pantry because it's a new book that's coming out. When is it coming out? It will be out at the end of this year, I 2019 it keeps expanding because i keep learning more yeah and i want to share all that in the book it seems like a it seems like a medical book it's disguised as a food book it's just going to be uh 33 years of working in new york as a restaurant owner uh doing tasty menus where as I mentioned we have to sometimes be so spontaneous with either idiosyncrasies of taste or textures or now with health challenges and these building blocks are just waiting to be executed so why can't they be at home waiting for you to execute them for

instance turmeric oil, curcumin all the benefits right when doctors inflammatory yeah when dr steve neurosurgeon he was the president of cornell medicals i believe i think he just changed he did a chef and doctor series and i had just presented him i've done over 800 oils in fact the crones people when i have a problem with somebody has crones i'll use a lot of peppermint oil and oregano oil now peppermint oil is very good for digestive system it helps mucous lining but it's very bad if you have acid reflux so it's the bottom half not the upper half so that would be an example of clarity that we need to have in the building blocks but when I did the turmeric oil which I've been doing since 87. We infuse oil with turmeric,

which is actually needed to absorb the turmeric. Right. It's a fat-soluble vegetable that has to be in a fat medium to have your absorption. To get into bioavailability stage, you have to have it in fat medium. So here's, we didn't really talk, Dr. Stieg and I, but I started to show that 10 minutes, and I talked about what I'm doing here

with the Chef and Doctor series. And nine minutes into his lecture lecture he's describing India having one of the lowest all-time is disease in the world because eat a lot of curry in curry is turmeric and turmeric is cuckoo men and that goes into ghee which is which is a butter and oil of fat so if I can make to make oil for you and you can come on from a crowd of life boil some pasta put a tablespoon of that on mix it around a bit starts to smell great put some toasted pine nuts for some protein, some good fats, a little parsley, and maybe a little grated cheese.

You're going to sit down and talk to yourself. But you're going to have a meal that's engineered for health. And you did it yourself in less than eight minutes. So that's how the building blocks will be used. Ceylon cinnamon is another one. We make oil out of that. Ceylon will help people with a fatty liver. Oh my God, I can't wait for this book because this is going to be really building blocks to create food as medicine and infuse all these different ingredients that we

know are healing into recipes that people can make at home. Right. They'll be living either in the refrigerator or in the freezer. And less certain things will be in jars. Like we make about 19 kinds of citrus powders and vegetables when I first sent them up to Holly lab with Ray Glenn Holly was the only USDA scientist to win a Nobel Prize and there's a laboratory there by USDA and they kind of work with different things the fortified American food system so I I started working Ray Glenn 13 years ago and when I sent him all the powders they were shocked with not only the high level of fiber, but all the benefits of the oils,

the fats, all the minerals in there. And they were shocked that so much was in the skin and we throw that away. So we create, we just peel that, take the white off, put it in a $50 dehydrator from Amazon. And in two days days those are all twisted into branches put in a coffee grinder and your whole house smells like orange so every time you're cooking something even roasting a chicken or anything you put any dressing anything you're getting all those benefits so that would be another building block now that would live in one of those rubber gasket jars so you could put that up but basically it's there you come home from a crowded

lifestyle you don't want to be listening to a recipe or you don't want to be thinking so much about following the instructions you grab the vanilla oil you take some raspberry vinegar you put it on a sliced tomato and you sit down and you think you're a genius so it's like legos for food in a sense you can't build anything with it. Right. You can. I mean, that's what food is, right? You just need a little bit of skill and technique and you're on your way. And all this intimidation of recipes and people's idea of trying to get someone to get to the finish line is too often too much for most folks. They won't expose themselves.

They don't have the time for that. But you can imagine how quickly, if you can slice tomato, put raspberry vinegar and vanilla oil, and maybe some orange powder on the outside, and sit down and eat that, you will be so excited about the flavor, and you're having only health benefits. You're not having a thousand-island dressing. You have a pharmacy in your fridge with an F. In the fridge, yeah, in the freezer. You know, a lot of the purees we make like garlic puree uh we we teach people how to make it on a lower heat so we don't lose it because the more we cook garlic the more we diminish the benefits

and an old lady who took one of my cooking classes said david live by myself i'm 84 years old i don't have anybody to cook for and i eat small portions i can't put it in those big ice cube trays that you told me about i put it in a ziploc baggie i lay it very flat and i break off what i want but she's getting all the benefits antibacterial anti-cancer anti-inflammation information anti anti everything and now we do that we teach people how to use fermented foods into these purees like i've been with black garlic black garlic yes so that would be another confusion on the market a lot of the black garlic on the market is aged to turn black but it's not fermented mmm without the fermentation you don't have all the benefits right the allicin is transformed into other health benefits

that some people some scientists say can be a hundred times stronger beneficial than regular garlic. And a lot of these foods that you are talking about, the fermented foods, things like kudzu, konnyaku, the artichoke, they all- Koji, miso, miso, all these benefits. Yeah, they all have benefits that are prebiotic and then the polyphenols that are all these colorful things. That is what the bacteria love to eat, the good guys. Yeah, that is good.

As you feed the good guys and you can cure all kinds of diseases just by what's at the end of your fork. Well, that's the bottom line. And we learned that from Elad, who's one of the scientists from Israel up at Holly Lab. He came down, was part of our symposium on fermented fruits.

We had a Japanese biologist doctor talk about the benefits of the natto bacteria. Yeah. And if you look at- Although that doesn't taste so good to the average American it's kind of weird you gotta study i love all kinds of weird stuff that's kind of the edge well it's only the string but you know the africans been eating natto for a thousand years the chinese have been eating natto for longer those two don't have that texture of the japanese the stringy weird stuff yeah. Yeah so the African natto is different. It's almost dried

and it's delicious but once you mix into many things you have the benefits. Like fermented soybeans. Well look at the prefectures in Japan they eat a lot of natto. They don't have osporosis. Women don't have bone issues. Zero. It doesn't exist and then start reading about the natto bacteria. So that would be an example we can integrate that into other foods when but when elad described his work on microbiome for 12 years now and how initially he didn't even have the laboratory instruments to help him quantify curiosities as he has today but he talks about about curcumin supporting the good bacteria. Yeah.

And the growth level was shocking, even him. So if we are able to build, like you just said, a greater community of good bacteria, we know what it does. It builds a strong immune system. Strong immune system, we take care of our health issues. We address cancer cells. We address toxicities. we address all these things that we're challenged by today by building stronger and more of the good guys this is amazing

so i i felt like i knew a lot about food as medicine but i just feel like i'm you know in kindergarten compared to you because you've explored the world and found all these ingredients that are incredible and have healing properties that if we include our our diet, could really almost obviate the need for medication for a lot of people. A lot of people, certainly. I mean, you would know that better than anyone. There are a lot of people in Europe who don't run to the pharmacy.

They'll run to food first. Like people that travel a lot, they should eat coriander. You know what coriander does for you? It kills parasites on contact. it kills a lot of bad bugs oh yeah just get a bit of metals and detoxifies your liver exactly particularly in the brain but it was used for centuries of people that were exposed to different kinds of parasites they didn't know how to if you look at these cuisines who have embraced these health benefits there they're like the

most relevant component of their cuisines. It's fascinating, particularly if you go to Thailand and you study certain things, the benefits of kefir, lemongrass, coconut, all these different things, and realize that at one point before the European sailors, Portuguese and Spanish, brought the chili pepper, they didn't have the controls. They were using controls for other things but chili pepper became so much more popular and so much more functioning for killing bacteria when we

didn't have refrigerators and hygiene and things you know the royal family doesn't need a lot of spicy food they don't know I've cooked for the king and the queen and many of the royal family they never had the exposure they've always had the freshest most abundant from nature delivered right to them yeah and the spicy cuisine was there to help folks stay healthy when the food wasn't right yeah well was it was the procurement and transportation the management you know was not in refrigerators and it's very hot climate.

So if you look back at those areas and see, well, what were they doing then? What were they even doing 200 years ago? Forget about it. Let's go to Woodstock. I tell many of my customers, if you find one photograph of someone that's obese at Woodstock, I will bring you my oldest Bordeaux and I will cook 12 courses for you. It's five years I've been saying that and no one has ever brought me a photograph of an obese person at Woodstock. It's true. 69. And now you can't go anywhere without seeing people who are obese. No I think we're 42% right obese not heavy overweight. Yeah I know there's it's true it's uh it's just frightening and it's getting worse but this is the answer i mean i think this is really how we think about this we need to

shift our view to yeah one of the things we learned in japan and from my uncle was if this was unbreakable health a circle and we had a paradox a triangle in the middle and this was fats, protein, and carbohydrates. Any one of those that is not properly designed from a quality point, processed. Any one of those that's an inferior quality or is out of balance in your dish or your meal will penetrate the circle. And now we start to have unbalance. We fall into the exposure of having all kinds of issues that can eventually develop into chronic disease. And the Japanese maintain this. Their government has watched when their community was in perfect balance,

like the French paradox. And one thing we learned from the Japanese, which is similar to French, is many times when all the – I met, I met lots of centennials and we always learned that they eat at least 30 different ingredients when they sit at a meal, not all in one because then we call that little confusion cooking, but they have 30 different elements, very similar to a French family. You start with crudités. Why do you have crudités? Roar vegetables develop enzyme activity. That's ready to manufacture your food, digestive food in the stomach before

it goes. Because I think, what, 90% of our foods are in the stomach and small intestine absorbed, right? So this crudités goes back hundreds of years. It goes to Persia before them. It was Russian. So who understands all the successful ceremony of food? and how does it have a deal with us from a physiology point? We're still the only country that reads calories. This is so great, Dave. I mean, who reads calories? It's called energy.

But how can 500 calories of Haagen-Dazs be the same as 500 calories of really good functional foods? So we've got to clear up a lot of things. So true, Dave. You know, I wish that you could start a school for all the chefs in America and the world, because what you're saying is so different and it's so radical and you're doing such an extraordinary job of getting this science and food and medicine all linked together. How do we get the chefs in the world to start to think like this? Well, I had one experience three years ago. We went to Washington.

And I think we were at Georgetown. I can't remember where. We did two days. We cooked for 32 executive chefs that run colleges. I remember one college, one chef said he runs 24 colleges alone. And he wanted us to demonstrate what's called the three-plate food from Japan. So he had three different plates that are pretty much out of the paradox paradox what we just talked about. And I remember it went on TV and I remember there was a follow-up at a university cafeterias where it had become so successful that they started to employ certain things like Adashi.

They started to employ bacteria was available, not just yogurt full of sugar. They were actually serving different pickled vegetables, like sauerkraut and different things. And it becomes so successful. So we know by these reactions that people want it. The consumer wants it. The students want it. Everybody wants it. But again, it's got to fit some criteria. I mean, lifestyle is very crowded in the States.

No one's going to say, okay, I'm just going to push out two hours of my lifestyle, and I'm going to focus. It has to be something that they can do easily, that they understand. And I'm sure people like you are very aware of the prospects of artificial intelligence or where we're going now with individualized medicine. That's true. I'm so inspired talking to you. You inspire me every time I talk to you. You inspire me every time I talk to you.

I learn something every time I talk to you. I didn't know about the salmon heads and the cartilage. And I encourage everybody to check out David's documentary, The Magic of a Dish, which is, I think they can get online. And the Chef and the Doctor series, if you're in New York, we're doing one tonight. I'm the doctor, he's the chef. And you can learn all about what he's doing at BoulayEvents.com. And soon it will become available because people like you will be working more and more with people that wear this jacket. Our goal is Living Pants will

expand into your computer, into your website. And hopefully, like we mentioned, the vanilla oil or other very successful things that can help you strengthen your health that you execute quickly with ownership you know following a recipe you'll have your own design on it you're going to do it with confidence and you're going to go on your way and you're going to celebrate you're going to share and you're going to get healthy everybody's got to get the living pantry book when it comes out you could probably search for it on amazon now maybe you can pre-order it i don't know but it's it's going to be we want to have people like you in this book amazing so we're finally putting it all together and we're going to come and sit with you folks

david thank you so much for your thanks for having me uh your 52 years of service to learning how to make food amazing and healing and good uh this has been Doctors Pharmacy. You've been listening to David Boulay talk about the magic of food and the medicine of food. And if you love this podcast, please share with your friends and family on Facebook and Twitter, wherever you can,

and leave a comment. We'd love to hear from you. And we'll see you next time on The Doctors Pharmacy.