The Dr. Hyman Show - Returning To Ancient Remedies To Promote Health with Dr. Josh Axe

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up on this episode of The Doctor's Pharmacy. We're in this very quick fix society where we give a pill for a certain illness. And let me say, one of the things that's happened too, you know, when you look at a lot of medications, not all of them, but a lot of them, they were inspired by compounds found in plants. Hey everyone, it's Dr. Hyman here. Now, so many of my patients ask me how I manage to work multiple jobs, travel frequently, well, not so much anymore, and spend time with my family and still focus on my health.

Starting point is 00:00:31 I know it can seem hard to eat well when you got a lot going on, but the trick is to never let yourself get into a food emergency and to stay stocked up with the right things to support your goals. So recently I discovered Paleo Valley Beef Sticks. I keep these beef sticks at home and at the office so I know that whenever I'm in a food emergency,

Starting point is 00:00:49 I have a healthy and delicious option to keep me on track. It's no secret that I have high standards when it comes to what I put in my body and Paleo Valley Beef Sticks checks all the boxes. They're gluten-free, grain-free, dairy-free, soy-free, and non-GMO. Plus, they use 100% grass-fed and grass-finished beef, which not only adds to the flavorful taste, but it also means they're free of any harmful antibiotics or hormones that you'll find in most meat. With grass-fed beef, you'll get more nutrients than you would with beef fed with grains, things like higher levels of omega-3 fats that help reduce inflammation, and more B vitamins and other antioxidants to support your body's

Starting point is 00:01:30 converting food into energy, and also more of the fat-soluble vitamins that are beneficial for a healthy heart. Plus, instead of being processed with chemicals and other questionable ingredients, these beef sticks are naturally fermented, so you get gut-friendly probiotics with every bite. How cool is that? Right now, Paleo Valley is offering my listeners 15% off your entire first order. Just go to paleovalley.com forward slash hymen to check out all their clean paleo products and take advantage of this deal. That's paleovalley.com forward slash hyman. I definitely recommend stocking up on the grass-fed beef sticks to keep in your house, in your car, and in your office. It's one of my favorite tricks to staying healthy while on the

Starting point is 00:02:15 go. One of today's episode sponsors is ButcherBox. I love this company because they make eating high quality meat and seafood accessible, affordable, and most importantly, really delicious. When I talk about high quality animal protein, that means caring for the lives of the animals and the livelihoods of farmers, and also reducing our impact on the environment and climate, and also feeding our bodies real food to promote optimal health. This is the huge caveat of eating meat and seafood. It has to be clean to be a beneficial part of our diet. ButcherBox delivers 100% grass-fed, grass-finished beef and wild-caught salmon right to my door. They have different package and frequency options available,

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Starting point is 00:03:26 Just go to butcherbox.com forward slash pharmacy. That's butcherbox.com forward slash pharmacy, F-A-R-M-A-C-Y, and you'll get two pounds of wild-caught salmon for free. ButcherBox sticks to strict fishing and handling practices when it comes to wild-caught, sustainably harvested seafood so you can feel good knowing you're eating the highest quality salmon available. I hope you'll take advantage of this great offer. I know you're going to love ButcherBox as much as I do. Now, let's get back to this week's episode of The Doctor's Pharmacy. Welcome to The Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm Dr. Mark Hyman. That's pharmacy with an F F A R M A C Y, a place for conversations that matter. And if you're really interested in how food is medicine

Starting point is 00:04:11 and how specific foods can have different properties based on their ancient connections to our biology, then this podcast you want to listen to because it's with my friend, Dr. Josh Axe. He's the founder of ancient nutrition and draxe.com. He's a certified doctor of natural medicine, chiropractic, and a clinical nutritionist. And he basically wants to get people healthy using nutrition to optimize their health. He's got many bestselling books, including Keto Diet, Eat Dirt, which is one of my favorites, Collagen Diet. And he's just written another book called Ancient Remedies, which is what we're going to talk about today. He's founded the natural health website, draxe.com, which is one of the top natural health websites in the world.

Starting point is 00:04:51 And he talks about nutrition, natural remedies, fitness, healthy recipes, DIY solutions for your health, and lots of trending health news. He's a co-founder of Ancient Nutrition, which is protein powders, holistic supplements, vitamins, essential oils. And he's got the Dr. Axe Show, which I've been on, which is a podcast, which I'd love you to listen to. He's got lots of health influencers on there, and he's just a great dude. So welcome to the podcast. Hey, thanks for having me, Dr. Mark. Excited to be here. And I mean, I wish I was with you in Hawaii right now, but you know, it's- somebody's got to do it. Yeah, I decided,

Starting point is 00:05:26 you know, after 35 years of grinding myself into the ground, working hard, you know, 17 books in 20 years, or maybe less, I in maybe 18 years, running a practice, I decided to give myself a treat and go to Maui, and spend the winter here and work from here here. Cause now with the world shut down, you can work from anywhere. So I'm pretty, pretty happy to be able to work here and, and have a little fun on the side. So Josh, you've got this great new book which is called ancient remedies. And you're talking about the challenge of modern medicine and how our current system relies on prescription medications and how that really is a failure to understand how the body works

Starting point is 00:06:11 and how to get people better using ancient principles and even modern principles of nutrition science. And you talked about in the book how your mom's cancer diagnosis planted the seed for what you're doing today. So talk about that and let me know how you've come to understand that that is a real problem. Yeah, so Dr. Mark, what really got me interested in ancient remedies was a health crisis in my family. You know, growing up, my family lived in that conventional medical model. Anytime we were sick, we went to our

Starting point is 00:06:42 physician, we got prescribed a medication, and that's what we did. You know, we didn't know that there was another way. We didn't know any, anything natural. So at 41 years old, my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer, which was really shocking to us because my mom was my gym teacher in elementary school. She was a swim instructor. You would have looked at her and thought, Hey, you were fit, but yet she got this diagnosis of cancer. And she went and she had a mastectomy. She went through rounds and rounds and rounds of chemotherapy. And I can still remember her losing her hair and how sick she got. But all that being said, she was eventually diagnosed as being cancer free. And her doctor said, you're healthy. The crazy thing about that though, the next 13 years, my mom had major health issues, got put on antidepressant drugs,

Starting point is 00:07:22 anti-anxiety drugs, had hypothyroidism. She got diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, had all of these medical issues. She was constantly getting sick. And this went on for 13 years. And finally, I was actually in school studying and I was about to open up my own clinic. I was about six months out and I get a call from my mom and she calls me in tears on the phone and she says, I've got bad news. They've just told me I have tumors on my lungs and they want to go in and do a radiation treatment and do surgery as well. She's like, what do I do? I said, mom, I'll be home. I flew home. And I've been really blessed at the time, Dr. Mark, to know some doctors who practice functional medicine. And I started, you know, I talked to them. I did a load of research and I said, my mom and I, first thing we did,

Starting point is 00:08:05 we actually sat down, we prayed together. We talked about it. And she said, listen, I've been through chemotherapy before. I've been through those treatments. And she said, I want to try something natural. So we basically talked with a physician and she kind of said, you have four to six months. Let's see how this goes. And so we did it. So my mom, we started juicing vegetables every single day. I mean, her diet was probably like 70% vegetables, both cooked and raw. She did a little bit of bone broth, a little bit of wild caught salmon, would eat berries. And that was pretty much her diet. I mean, it was pretty much that.

Starting point is 00:08:37 And then I was spending all this time, Dr. Mark, doing research on diets for cancer. I came across things like keto diet and some of these diets in Japan today. And then I started learning about turmeric and reishi mushroom, all these medicinal mushrooms out there today and their anti-cancer side effects. And my mom also was taking turmeric, reishi, like a multi-mushroom type supplement, and just lots of herbs and spices. And she followed this program for four months. The other thing I'll just say, she had a lot of stress. We really focused. My mom rode horses as a kid. She started doing that again, going boating with my dad. I mean, just really reduced the stress. We followed this program. She went back four months later, redid a PET scan. And her

Starting point is 00:09:21 oncologist called the next day and said her, her exact words, her exact words were, this is highly unusual. We don't typically see this, but the largest tumor shrunk by more than half. She said, Hey, we want to see you again in nine months,

Starting point is 00:09:34 went back nine months later, almost complete remission. Then it went back again after that and then complete remission. So it's been about, uh, 13 years actually since then. And my mom's in her late 60s and she waterskis. She's ran a 5K with me, got second in her age group.

Starting point is 00:09:51 She actually says she feels better and healthier now in her late 60s than she did in her 30s. So all that being said, that was sort of what led me into this. And then I started using this with patients. I started really focusing on more of a personalized diet. I know, I started, you know, really focusing on, you know, more of a personalized diet. I know this is what you teach people. This is what you've pioneered in functional medicine. But I started also learning all these things about these ancient forms of medicine, specifically Chinese medicine. And so, you know, I started using that with patients and really just saw some incredible results. And so that's really what inspired the book. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:25 Well, you know, your mom is not alone in being someone who's given one option, which is medication and sometimes chemos, radiation, surgery, and cancer. But, you know, this is a culture in medicine of a pill for every yell, a drug for every bug. And the Kaiser Family Foundation reported that 50% of Americans age 30 to 50 are taking prescription medication. These are relatively young people, right? 30 to 49. 75% in their 50s and 90% in their 65 or older group. What's even more shocking is a third of people in their 50s and more than half of those over 65 take four or more prescription drugs regularly. I did a house call on an older woman who had a bunch of chronic issues.

Starting point is 00:11:15 I went through her medications. She was on 22 different prescription medications. I was like, and often that creates all kinds of secondary side effects. She was taking a pill to fix the side effect of this pill, didn't fix the side effect of that. So can you talk about how our medical and healthcare system has been hijacked by the pharmaceutical companies, which put people's health before, after profits and why the medications that are often promoted and the medications that are prescribed most often are these perpetual medications. They're really not designed to cure anything, but to manage things and keep people on them forever. And the truth is a lot of the drugs that can be developed

Starting point is 00:11:57 for conditions that are curative, they're not really being studied. They're looking for these blockbuster drugs like statins, which you have to take for the rest of your life. So can you talk about how that works and how do we get out of that? Yeah, yeah. So I'm with you, Dr. Mark. So one of the things I think that's happened is we have a lot of these ancient forms of medicine to where, you know, it was really looking at how the body worked holistically. I think that's where we start. And they were really focused on what you teach, and that's how do we fix the root cause of this disease?

Starting point is 00:12:28 And they really looked at both our emotional health, you know, what we're doing in terms of our lifestyle and then our diet. Those are the things they really focused in on. Today, we're in this very quick fix society where we give a pill for a certain illness. And let me say, one of the things that's happened to, you know, when you look at a lot of medications, not all of them, but a lot of them, they were inspired by compounds found in plants. You know, we know this for aspirin, right? Aspirin, they got the idea from a compound found in white willow bark and wintergreen. And so, you know, that compound is a natural painkiller, but now we create these things synthetically. And when you're doing them in that high of a dose, what it does is you're

Starting point is 00:13:10 going to have a side effect. In fact, one of the things I go through early on in the book is there isn't a single medication that doesn't deplete the body of specific nutrients. For instance, we know statin drugs to lower cholesterol, deplete your body of coenzyme Q10, which then if your body's low in CoQ10, you have a greater risk of heart attack and stroke. I go through, if you've taken an antibiotic drug, biggest two things that deplete your body of are probiotics and zinc. You know, zinc and probiotics are a big part of your immune system. So if you take an antibiotic drug and you don't take probiotics and zinc, you are greatly

Starting point is 00:13:48 increasing your risk of future immune issues. And so all that being said, the issue today is it's all about a quick fix. It's too driven based on, again, this is a trillion dollar industry. This is a big industry we're talking about. And it's really focused on, you know, focused on money, not really getting the root cause, getting people. Well, I think the other big thing, Dr. Mark, and one of the things I love even that you cover in your book, Pegan diet, as you talk about, there are these seven systems of the body in Chinese medicine, they sort of put them in five

Starting point is 00:14:17 systems, but knowing that these different systems work together. And for instance, you and I both know like hypothyroidism, for instance, isn't always at the root of your thyroid. In fact, often hypothyroidism or Hashimoto's thyroiditis, the root is actually with your adrenals and your gut. So we've got to heal that gut. And so, you know, focusing on a diet and focusing on certain supplements and lifestyle practices that help those issues. For instance, if you go to a, you know, somebody who's practicing most often the mainstream conventional medicine today, you go in with hypothyroidism, they'll say, here's a drug like Synthroid. That's what you do. Some doctors that may practice more natural, they may say, hey, take some selenium and B12 and eat more real food. I know what ancient

Starting point is 00:15:02 practitioners would do is they would go back and say, okay, what is the root cause of this thyroid issue? And then they would say, okay, well, and they would call it in Chinese medicine, a Qi and Yang deficiency, which when I first started studying, I thought that sounds kind of weird, but it's just a different language. Qi is essentially your adrenal battery, whereas Yang is more having more progesterone and testosterone and having your estrogen levels, more those need to be balanced. And so that being said, they would say, okay, well, the foods that really nourish your adrenals there and your thyroid together are going to be berries. So a foods that are really rich actually in flavonoids. And so we're going to prescribe

Starting point is 00:15:40 cranberries and blueberries and goji berries and all these berries for you. We're going to prescribe, you know, cranberries and blueberries and goji berries and all these berries for you. We're going to have you do some black rice. And then we're going to have you do seafood, specifically seaweed and wild caught fish. Those are the foods that are most nourishing to that organ system that is related to what's going on. And then they would probably recommend some adaptogens, you know, things like, and there's something similar to ashwagandha, which is actually a qi and yang booster. They would have recommended something like codenopsis and

Starting point is 00:16:09 astragalus and other things. But all that being said, they're very focused on how do I heal the root cause here? Yeah, that's amazing. You know, Josh, what you said was, I want to sort of come back to what you sort of glossed over, but it's so important. You know, most of the time when you go to your doctor, they see you're taking supplements and, oh, stop those supplements. They can interfere with the medications. But what most people don't realize is that so many medications deplete nutrients. You mentioned CoQ10 and statins. One of the other major categories of drugs is acid blockers like Protonix and Prilosec and Asifex and Nexium, which are now over the counter. When I was in medical school, we were told,

Starting point is 00:16:48 do not prescribe those for more than six weeks. They're super powerful. But you know what? If you take that, you're B12 deficient. You get zinc deficient, magnesium deficient. You get osteoporosis. You get gut issues. I mean, it just creates so many secondary problems.

Starting point is 00:17:00 If you're taking blood pressure medication, for example, like diuretics, it depletes magnesium and other minerals. So you kind of have to really understand what you're taking and not just think about how nutrients may affect the drugs, but how the drugs deplete nutrients. And this can be a real big problem as people are on these drugs for a long, long time. Yeah, Dr. Marks. And one of the things I cover in the book, in fact, I have it open here. If you're taking a hypertensive drug, it depletes your body of CoQ10, potassium, magnesium, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B1. If you're taking birth control, like a lot of times people don't think about this with something like birth control. So, so many people are on it. It depletes your body of vitamin

Starting point is 00:17:39 B2, B3, B6, B12, vitamin C, gut bacteria, magnesium, and zinc. And think about even folate. Folate, if somebody's on a contraceptive and they, anyways, the whole thing is, it's just, it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. So let's talk about this incredible idea that, that, that is sort of talked about, but no one's really doing anything about it as far as I can tell, which is the antibiotics in our food. So one, there's about 39 million pounds of antibiotics produced every year in America. About 37, I think 37, 29 million pounds are used for preventing infection from overcrowding in factory farming of animals, right? And we call it CAPOs, feedlots. About, you know, maybe seven, eight million are used in humans, which is about 260 million prescriptions a year of antibiotics.

Starting point is 00:18:41 And there's a lot that have been written about this. You wrote a book called Eat Dirt. There's a wonderful book by a professor in New York called Missing Microbes and how this is profoundly changing our health for the worse by killing off the ecosystem in our bug. There's also another great book called The Epidemic of Absence, which talks about how the messing up of our gut and the absence of good bugs is literally driving a whole series of diseases from allergy to autoimmunity. And even in lots more things, we're linking the microbiome to autism and Alzheimer's and heart disease and cancer and depression. I mean, you name it. And a lot of this has to do with the overuse of antibiotics in our society. And I remember being in medical school, and this was 30 plus years ago, we were told, be careful, don't overuse antibiotics.

Starting point is 00:19:30 This is a big issue. And it's even kind of worse now. So how is this one of the most important public health threats we face today? Well, one of the things I love about you, Dr. Mark, is we share the same passion of regenerative agriculture. In fact, I co-own 5,000 acres of organic land, some in Tennessee, some in Missouri, where we do something myself and Jordan Rubin, it's called permaculture, creating food for us, but really working on healing the planet. It's incredible. I mean,

Starting point is 00:20:00 if we would not be focused on the short term, but focused on the long term, even financially, we could feed the entire world. If we focused on doing food for us where we're growing more things like apple trees and walnut trees and more perennial plants rather than soybeans, wheat, and corn, it literally changes the environment. And so all that being said, I think it's so important just to note one, you know, it's better for the planet when you follow these farming practices. But what we're doing today is we're giving a lot of these animals,

Starting point is 00:20:35 you know, we're giving them, we're feeding them genetically modified corn, soy and wheat. That's the, that's the base of their feed. And then we're putting antibiotics in there just consistently. And what happens is 80% of the world's antibiotics are not given to humans. They're given to livestock. 80% of antibiotics. It's crazy. So what's going to be happening is when we consume those antibiotics via those animal tissues or dairy or other things, what that's going to do is that's going to damage a lot of our gut microbes, okay? It's gonna kill off a lot of those good bacteria. You're gonna have more overgrowth of a lot of the bad bacteria.

Starting point is 00:21:15 And that's a massive part of your immune system. This is a big cause of things like leaky gut syndrome, which is the root cause of autoimmune disease, weakened immunity, migraine headaches, food sensitivities. And one of the things I do talk about in my book, Eat Dirt, I really get into how we have sometimes over-sanitized in many cases. And I think that's important. Even in the world of COVID today, it's important to keep in mind, we want to practice proper sanitation. We absolutely do. And I think there are some natural things that can help us do it. There are really powerful essential oils like tea tree oil

Starting point is 00:21:49 and others that I think are good to use on a regular basis, but studies show we need to be deeply connected with the earth, you know? Um, and so with that being said, there are studies showing if you live on a farm, you actually have a stronger immune system, a healthier immune system, less food allergies, less food sensitivities. They've shown in studies if you have a dog or a cat, actually by 49, you have 49% less food allergies, food sensitivities, food sensitivities and a stronger immune system. What else is unique is I read a study. This is out of Japan, and they showed that if you're eating foods that are more local in nature, they talked about seaweed over there, that you're getting different types of soil-based organisms, whether it's from the sea or the land, and those actually work with your immune system at driving out bad bacteria, helping

Starting point is 00:22:38 modulate your immune system. When we hear of immunization, Dr. Mark, a lot of times people, first, their head goes to a shot. But the truth is, like, I've got an eight and a half month old daughter now, and we will support her immunity. We will support her naturally, you know, naturally immunize her through getting her exposures to certain things. In fact, local honey, you know, a lot of times people talk about, oh, take local honey for allergies. The big benefit of local raw honey is that it contains over 200 microbes. And if you do that year round, you're getting pollen and all these exposures. It's a form of a natural immunization. I'm not saying it's the only way to do it. Obviously, there's many, but it's one of the ways we naturally strengthen and boost our immune systems. So I think we've really lost that sort of ancient art of being deeply connected to the outdoors and our environment and in that way, strengthening our immunity in our bodies. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:23:38 Hey everyone, it's Dr. Mark. My main goal with diet is to use food as medicine, but even when we eat super well, most of us are missing out on certain essential nutrients. Our soils have become depleted and our digestive tracts just aren't working so great. They're compromised by stress and toxins and they just can't absorb nutrients as efficiently as they should. And that's why I always use, and I recommend to my patients, a multivitamin mineral as nutritional insurance. It covers the basics for all our day-to-day body functions, all the things that we need that our food might be missing. But there are so many

Starting point is 00:24:13 products out there I wouldn't go near because they contain artificial fillers or inactive ingredients and you have to be pretty picky. The one I trust and take myself is Athletic Greens. They use high quality, highly absorbable forms of vitamins and nutrients from real whole foods. Athletic Greens comes in a powder that tastes great and mixes easily with water or smoothies and specifically supports my gut health, immunity, energy, and recovery.

Starting point is 00:24:37 And it's not just vitamins and minerals. It has phytonutrient rich superfoods and adaptogens and pre and probiotics and even digestive enzymes. I love that they add the digestive support in their powder since so much of our immune strength and overall wellness starts in the gut. It's really one supplement that covers so many bases and you'd be hard-pressed to find something else in this comprehensive form in any single other product. I use Athletic Greens in the morning as part of my daily routine and I love having it with me whenever I travel. I also love that it's diet-friendly,

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Starting point is 00:26:02 of The Doctor's Pharmacy. Well, let's talk about food as medicine and how so much of our chronic illness is caused by the foods we eat and also can be healed by eating different foods. Yeah. So, you know, obviously, I think we know this. And if anybody's listening to your podcast, they know this. But obviously, you know, the big culverts are sugar. It's a lot of the refined grains, again, the, the corn and the wheat, uh, soybeans, it's a bean, but that's in there as

Starting point is 00:26:34 well. So getting a lot of carbohydrates from there, the hydrogenated oils, we want to stay away from that stuff. And a lot of the things that contain genetically modified organisms or animals eating foods that they shouldn't. So the dairy byproducts, the meat products, we use that principle, right? You are what you eat, what they ate. So if they're eating a lot of grains, their tissues are full of omega-6 fats versus a lot of grass, more omega-3s, you're going to have more balance there that's going to help your body heal. But one of the unique things that ancient practitioners recommended, Dr. Mark, lot of grass, more omega-3s. You're going to have more balancer that's going to help your body heal. But one of the unique things that ancient practitioners recommended, Dr. Mark,

Starting point is 00:27:16 and I think this is fascinating and it's absolutely true, is knowing what foods to eat based on your sick. Here's what the ancient physicians recommended. They said, okay, what the food looks like. If the food looks like a body part, it supports that. What is the food's flavor as well? And what's the food's color? And they would look at those three things and say, that's how you know what to eat. So for instance, a walnut looks like your brain. In fact, you crack it open. It has two hemispheres. We know today that walnuts are loaded with choline and vitamin E and some omega-3 fats, so they're good for the brain. A coconut as well looks like your head. Coconut has all these medium chain triglycerides, which are good for your brain.

Starting point is 00:27:52 And actually, a water inside that almost looks like cerebral spinal fluid that's actually good for your body's fluid and systems. We've got beets that actually look like blood when you're cutting them. And they are known to increase nitric oxide in the body and improve your cardiovascular health. Celery looks like your bones. Celery is probably the most alkaline vegetable. And so it actually supports your bones and especially supporting vitamin K and calcium levels.

Starting point is 00:28:23 And then I could keep going on a few others. This is so fascinating. Yeah. Reishi mushrooms look identical to your kidneys and adrenal glands. So do kidney beans, you know, onions are amazing for your cells. Those are loaded with quercetin and things that actually support mitochondrial function, all kinds of things. So, you know, one of the things I go through that in the whole book, I have these, you know, big pictures and graphs going through, here's all of those foods. So we know that. And then flavors, five flavors support five different, what they considered organ systems that work together. So sour foods really activate and support liver detoxification.

Starting point is 00:29:00 Bitter really affects the heart and the blood. You've got umami, which affects the lungs and colon. You've got sweet, which is more the pancreas and stomach, the upper GI. And then you've got salty, which is your kidneys and your adrenals. And then certain foods like green is very good for liver, gallbladder. But anyways, that's how the ancient knew. And I really believe that God created, you know, food, you know, our, our, our food here. I don't think he made it real complicated. Like, hey, I'm going to make it really hard for them to figure out what to eat. I think some of the stuff I'm not saying everything is simple, but I think some of the times using food as medicine isn't really complex if we are, you know, able to start thinking and

Starting point is 00:29:40 learning about some of these things. Yeah, it's true. You know, I love your sort of title of your book, Ancient Nutritional, because I often thought about how is it that we're eating such a monodiet? Our diet is mostly three crops. 60% of our diet is three crops, wheat, corn, and rice around the world. Another maybe nine or 10 crops make up the rest of it. We used to eat 800 species of plants and, and agriculture, you could argue was one of the most destructive things to be discovered or invented because it led to, you know, you know, we used to be on average height of five, nine as hunter gatherers. And then when we started agriculture, went down to five, three for men.

Starting point is 00:30:21 Why? Because they were so malnourished. They were starting to eat single crops. They were only eating rice or they were only eating whatever they could grow. And they weren't having this massive diversity of plants and animals and bugs and whatever they ate back then. And we've dumbed down our diet to these very few ingredients that's led to these massive nutritional deficiencies. I mean, you just listed, you know, some of the common foods, some of them are less common, like reishi mushrooms and so forth. But, you know, I'm here in Hawaii and, you know, I feel like I'm a pretty well-traveled, well-educated guy. And I go to the farmer's market here and I'm like, what is that? And what is that? And what is a Suriname cherry? And what's the, I don't even know what these things are. I've

Starting point is 00:31:03 eaten things I never even saw before. And I'm thinking, wow, you know, we are, we are so deprived of all medicines in food and that we've evolved actually to use these compounds with our biology to regulate different functions of our system, which you sort of were mentioning. And we've lost that understanding. It's not just about calories. It's not just about taste or flavor. And what was really amazing. I don't know if you actually know this book, Josh, it's called Nourishment by a guy named Fred Provenza. And you should listen to that podcast that I had called it. He's meat medicine with this guy. He's this old guy with a big beard. He's like this sort of looks like a mad scientist who's a rangeland scientist. But he talks about

Starting point is 00:31:40 how animals seek out different flavors of different plants and have different properties that are used as medicines and that have nutrient density. But when animals are left to their own, they forage in all these incredible variety of plants that provides all these incredible nutritional needs we need just through their natural intelligence. So what you're talking about is these different flavors, these different tastes, these different colors. They're not just decoration. They're not just for our personal enjoyment. They're actually designed to heal our bodies and to regulate all the functions of our body, which is just so brilliant. And that's what your book really goes into. I encourage people to go get a copy. It's called Ancient Remedies, Secrets to Healing with Herbs, Essential Oils, CBD, and the Most Power natural medicine in history. The most powerful natural medicine in history. What is that? Well, the natural medicine history, I really go through, actually, it's more personalized

Starting point is 00:32:34 medicine. That's the most powerful medicine in history. I get to it in the book because different herbs are good for so many things. I cover stuff in the book, like for instance, if you've got an immune system issue, ancient Chinese medicine, actually an herb we, we, some people use here, but I don't see, I've actually heard you talk about it, but probably one of the top five herbs in Chinese medicine was astragalus. Like astragalus today, what it's known for is actually helping repair leaky gut or your gut related immune system. You know, that's super powerful. A lot of people don't even, you haven't even heard of astragalus, but has all of these benefits. We know herbs like galangal, you know, that cousin of turmeric and ginger has all of these anti-cancer properties. Andrographis, there's some great new

Starting point is 00:33:15 research on andrographis and its ability to fight viruses. And so anyways, yeah, I think it depends on the person. One of the things I do love, Dr. Mark, about ancient Chinese medicine is it was really the first form that I've seen documented of personalized medicine. It's kind of like, you know, it's kind of almost started off. It also includes your personality profile. So if anybody's ever done like an Enneagram test or Myers-Briggs or disk profile, sometimes when you read those, you're like, wow, that's, you know, almost every time you're like, wow, that is really straight on. That's my personality. Well, they did that in Chinese medicine. It's called the five elements. And so they really know, Hey, here's your personality. But they said, based on your emotions, I think this is really incredible based on your emotions that tends to be the biggest driver of what causes disease in which organ system. Cause why is it today? Most people would say genetics. Like why does one person get diabetes, but another person could be eating almost the same diet, but that person ends up with more heart disease and high blood pressure and

Starting point is 00:34:16 cholesterol. Another person, thyroid issues. And another person, what they say is different emotions affect different organs. So for instance, and we know this is true, the emotion of fear, if you're fearful, maybe fear of failure, fear of disappointing loved ones, that actually causes adrenal issues. Or if a child gets really scared at night, nightmares cause fear that was actually affect the kidneys and they can wet the bed. The emotion of worry specifically affects the upper digestive system, the pancreas and stomach. People say, oh, my stomach feels like it's tied knots if they worry a lot. The emotion of grief most affects the

Starting point is 00:34:50 lungs and colon, which is your immune system. So, or unforgiveness, something that's happened in the past, a hurt, a trauma, you haven't been able to let it go. That's completely affecting the immune system, can trigger things like autoimmune-like issues and that sort of thing. And the thing about heart anxiety, that's related to your heart, your blood pressure raises. So they would actually say in Chinese medicine, food is important, but more than 50% of health conditions today are experiencing negative emotions. So they always say, hey, you've got to address that negative emotion to completely heal. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:35:24 I think it's so critical. And I think, you know, your book is just full of practical suggestions and really wonderful tips on how to incorporate some of these ancient principles into everyday life to optimize our health and to sort of fix our biology. I sort of want to get into sort of, you know, the role of spices and herbs and other things like CBD and essential oils and healing mushrooms around our immune system. Because right now with COVID-19, we're all a little bit scared of getting it. And what I believe is that, you know, and this is sort of goes back to this ancient debate between Louis Pasteur and another scientist at a time who's mostly

Starting point is 00:36:05 been forgotten named Claude Bernard. And Louis Pasteur, for those who don't know, was the guy who figured out there's microbes. And he discovered bacteria and looked under a microscope and saw these things and connected them to pneumonias. For example, strep bacteria causes strep pneumonia and so forth. Claude Bernard had a different theory. He said, it's not just the microbe, it's the host that matters. He called the biological terrain, the state of your health that determines your risk of getting sick or not and how sick you will get. And I think people are not discussing this around COVID, which is just devastating to

Starting point is 00:36:42 me because there's so much we can do to rejuvenate our immune system, become immune resilient, and to reduce our risk if we get sick of getting very sick, and even to reduce our risk of getting sick at all. And we know from other studies, you can literally inject cold viruses directly into the nostrils of people, and not everybody will get sick. Yeah. Hence one of the studies where they just look at their stress score, the more stress they had, the more likely they were going to get sick. If you weren't stressed, you were less likely to get sick.

Starting point is 00:37:14 And that's just one component. Your diet plays a role. And what's also really exciting about the book that you've written, ancient remedies is that you include a lot of remedies that can help rejuvenate and build and boost your immune system so we can become more immune resilient and actually do better in this pandemic, which I fear will be lasting for quite a while, not just another year or so, but much, much longer. Yeah, well, Dr. Mark, first off, I love that reference because I've talked about that before, you know, between Pasteur and Bernard and really terrain and the terrain of your body. So first off, I just think that's a perfect example to talk about in

Starting point is 00:37:49 terms of COVID and fighting viruses today. You know, really the thought, I want to go back to something Hippocrates said. He said that the body heals itself. He really, you know, talked about this, that listen, it's not a food that heals you. A lot of times we think broccoli heals me or turmeric or another herb. Really, if you get a cut on your hand, your body heals that. Now, your body's going to use these herbals and these foods as the building blocks to repair itself. But what herbs do is they change the environment more than anything. They put your body in a better place where it's better able to heal

Starting point is 00:38:25 itself. And so with that, you know, as we're talking about immunity, you know, I think it's really, really important. And again, think about this. Also think about your body as a bucket. Okay. If it's clean, if it's healthy, it's not going to attract any bugs. Essentially, that's what some of these things are. Parasites, viruses, bacteria, yeast, some of these things that we can get inside our body. We had a flood years ago in Nashville. Afterwards, Dr. Mark, I had so many patients coming in with mold toxicity because they didn't get it cleaned up properly. Mold was a huge issue for years in Nashville. So all that being said, but in order for mold to grow, it has to be in a very specific environment. It has to be damp. And the way you get rid of it is you have a lot of airflow and light and you dry it out. The same thing happens in our body. In Chinese medicine, they'd call it dampness. But essentially, in our bodies, if our body gets too damp, and our body also gets in a bad environment,

Starting point is 00:39:26 that's what allows these bugs to thrive. And so you just need to change the environment. That's what these do. One of the things people should notice is that most herbs that you take for fighting a virus are bitter. Bitter drives out dampness and phlegm and candida in Chinese medicine. In fact, andrographis, which is one of the herbs now most prescribed in Asia and Japan for something like COVID, it's known as king of the bitters. It is the most bitter, or have you days that you're like, this is the most bitter thing I've ever had in my life. But if you try echinacea, that's really bitter. That's another good one. And a lot of these olive leaf, these are all very, very bitter. Those herbs are going to help drive out and actually have a lot of those antiviral properties with those things.

Starting point is 00:40:16 And then I would also say things that are going to just activate the immune system. So you have the ones that help drive the bad stoutl and the ones that strengthen your organ systems in your own body to better fight off the infection. Astragalus is a great example of one that really strengthens your own system so you can better fight off a virus. So what I recommend, Dr. Mark, let me talk about nutrients first. Nutrients, number one is vitamin D. I know I've heard you say the same thing, but vitamin D, the most important nutrients we need to support our immunity right now. And number one, get the sun as much as you can, but if not take vitamin D number two, from what I've seen in working with people is zinc. You know, I think even when people are losing their sense of taste and smell, you can go to the medical literature.

Starting point is 00:40:59 You can read about it. Most of the time, a lot of times that's it's more severe. We'll take longer if you have a zinc deficiency. So that's the next big one. Those are the two biggest ones I've seen vitamin D zinc. And then there's other things. I think that vitamin C to a degree can be good, but I don't even think that's the biggest one. I think vitamin A in some cases, or even nutrients like quercetin are more important, but I would say zinc and vitamin D you want to take those.

Starting point is 00:41:23 And then in terms of herbals, I really like astragalus for long-term prevention of strengthening your immune system. If you get something, I like andrographis, echinacea, and then to a degree, yeah, those are probably the, I mean, I could mention a bunch more, but I think those are the big ones. I think those are really important. And I think that the other thing I wanted to sort of dig into was something you wrote about in your book, which, you a lot of press, which is CBD and endocabininoid system and how all that works and what we should know about that. Because it's one of the plant remedies that you do talk about, which is a little controversial and people are really scared of it. I'm like, am I going to take CBD? I'm going to get drugs and I'm going to get stoned. I can't do it because my work doesn't

Starting point is 00:42:00 let me smoke pot. What is all the hubbub about it? And what do we know? And what is the best application of CBD? What do we use it for? Well, first off, I do agree. I'm a hemp farmer. I own a thousand acres of certified organic land where we grow organic hemp. That being said, you know, there are different ways to grow the plant to where it has larger levels of different compounds. So to make compounds in hemp, also known as cannabis, and you're going to have THC and CBD. THC as a compound has

Starting point is 00:42:31 hallucinogenic effects. That's what's going to get somebody high. CBD is a very, very different compound. CBD is just calming. It's in actually, it comes from the bud of a flower of the hemp plant. And it's more similar to chamomile or hops or even lavender. It's more similar in compounds there. So you have these two compounds in a plant. Chinese medicine, it's known as a yin tonic. So it's going to help if you're in a sympathetic state, you're in a fight or flight response, which so many of us are today. It's going to help bring you down from that. In fact,

Starting point is 00:43:05 I would say CBD is maybe the most effective herbal I've ever used at getting people out of that fight or flight state, which is why I do think it is so powerful for people to use. If you really need to get better sleep, CBD is the best herb I've used. If you want to improve and help reduce inflammation in joints, it's a really good one for that. I also think it's good for digestion if it's stress-related and some other things. But sleep, inflammation, biggest benefits of CBD. THC, though, I do want to give this warning. I do think doing a medicinal blend of those two, a lot of doctors will prescribe that. And I think that can be good to replace opioid drugs. And if somebody has major chronic pain, but I really

Starting point is 00:43:51 think chronic pain is about the only category out there to where THC should be used for a longer period of time. Because here's the thing, according to Chinese medicine, and I've seen this with people, there is a big side effect with THC and that it's a drains your adrenal glands. Your adrenals in Chinese medicine was also known that it's what gives you motivation. It gives you energy saying, Hey, I want to go out and do things. I want to be active. You'll notice when people overdo, you know, that labeled them potheads for overdoing THC cannabis, it zaps their motivation. And actually in Chinese medicine, it's known to deplete their Jing, which is essentially their sperm cow and their libido as well. So anyways, all that being said, I'm not the biggest fan of using THC in most cases, but CBD

Starting point is 00:44:39 is a non, you know, it's a, they are really just benefits there and none of the side effects. Yeah, amazing. So in the book, Ancient Remedies, just to sort of close up, you really are offering these ancient prescriptions for over 70 different conditions from autoimmune disease to inflammatory bowel disease, chronic inflammation, lots more. So can you take us through a few of what these remedies are and how you begin to apply these ancient principles and remedies to helping people solve their complex chronic illnesses? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, in the book, as you said, it's about 75 different conditions, and we go through the foods to eat, not to eat. We have a paragraph that goes through the actual root cause of it. And then we also go through the top five supplements, the essential oils and the

Starting point is 00:45:25 lifestyle practices to heal that condition. So for instance, with something like PCOS, polycystic ovary syndrome, that's really an insulin related issue. And in Chinese medicine, it was also known to be related to the emotion of worry. So we actually even lay out the emotion component you have to heal with that condition. So you got to heal worry. The other thing is you got to consume foods that really support your blood glucose levels. And so we go through the best vegetables to do that, just generally the best foods, and then the top five supplements. So in the case of PCOS, it's an insulin issue. So cinnamon, one of the best things you could take for PCOS, it's an insulin issue. So cinnamon, you know, one of the best things you could take

Starting point is 00:46:05 for PCOS. An herb called Vitex works because it also increases progesterone, which is also an issue that starts to happen with PCOS. And then other herbals like holy basil, we recommend essential oils for that. But we do that for over 75 conditions. Cancer is another one. The root cause of cancer in Chinese medicine is known as two things. It is blood stagnation and chi stagnation, which basically means things aren't moving through your body. They're very stuck. And so nutrients aren't getting dispersed. And so for instance, with that, emotionally, emotions like unforgiveness is a big one that is actually at the root cause of cancer, according to ancient Chinese medicine and a few others, but it's really a liver and an immune

Starting point is 00:46:52 system issue. It's your detoxification and your immune systems. Those are the two compromised systems according to Chinese medicine. So they're going to recommend herbs like again, galangal is a big one. Turmeric is a big one. astragalus is a big one certain types of mushrooms like maitake and so you know we go through that there in there and then uh frankincense which is actually good for it because in myrrh because of what they do for cleansing the blood so we go through that and then hypothyroidism i'll give that as the last example you know that is a qi and yang deficiency in Chinese medicine. So the chief herbal that helps with that is ashwagandha. And as a secondary, there's a few others there as well.

Starting point is 00:47:32 And we go through the, you know, the best foods, the best supplements, but I'm really excited about this book because it's also, you can use it as a reference guide. You know, after you read it, I think there's some great information that people probably have never heard of before, but Hey, if you come down with, you know, acid reflux, or you've got a burner, a cut, or you, you come down with a viral infection. I go through here's the best herbs for a virus or a cold, and you know exactly what to take at that point. So anyways, it's kind of a book and a reference guide, but you know, I was so excited because I think this is the book that I'm most proud of that I've written. I've written about seven books.

Starting point is 00:48:06 And I think from what we've heard from people, as people have just said, I just, you know, they've really enjoyed it. It's so great. I really think it's an important book because people are often confused about what those really unique compounds are in food that can help us regulate our biology and improve our overall health and address different conditions. And I think, you know, I think the whole concept of personalized medicine, of food is medicine, of understanding how to use that, you know, we're all doing the same work.

Starting point is 00:48:32 We all take it from a different angle. I think your work is really an important contribution. I encourage everybody to get a copy of Josh's brand new book called Ancient Remedies. And the subtitle is Secrets to Healing with Herbs, Essential Oils, CBD, and the Most Powerful Natural Medicine in History. It's out. I'd go to amazon.com to check it out. I would also check out Josh's website, draxe.com. There's also a book page on there, draxe.com forward slash ancient remedies and learn more about his work. He's a real fountain of information. He does the homework, finds the real stories and digs into a lot of the science around food and food as medicine and all these ancient remedies to bring

Starting point is 00:49:16 them to you in a way that's easily digestible, practical. And I encourage everybody to check out the book. So Josh, any last words of wisdom for people who are trying to figure out how to get healthy? Yeah, I would say this one, keep it simple. One, two practices that I have. One is I do a spiritual triathlon every morning. I spend five minutes in gratitude, five minutes reading my Bible or just a personal growth or devotional book. And then I spend five minutes in prayer or meditation. I'm telling you, I just do that every morning. And I think we do need to focus more on our spiritual health. Dr. Mark, I know in that every morning. And I think we do need to focus more on our spiritual health. Dr. Mark, I know in your new book, you talk a lot about mood and healing our mind and that sort of thing. And I'm so with you there. I just think for all of us,

Starting point is 00:49:53 really fostering these healthy emotions in a world today that's so full of fear, having more faith and hope and love and really, but we need to build those, you know, just like we need to build a healthy body, we got to build those healthy emotions. And then one last nutritional tip. We talk about a lot. I mean, there's a lot of information. But think about this. Even if you just change breakfast, that's like a third of your diet. And I've noticed when I eat a better breakfast, I want to eat a better lunch and a better dinner.

Starting point is 00:50:19 And if you're intermittent fasting, then hey, whatever your first meal of the day is. But I think starting off with something like a collagen smoothie, like I'll do coconut milk and a cup of berries and a scoop of something like a collagen powder and boom, like I feel great doing that. I've had patients do that. They feel great. So I think those are two big things and continue to learn and educate yourself. Encourage you get the book, Ancient Remedies, get Dr. Mark's book, The Pegan Diet.

Starting point is 00:50:42 That's fantastic too. But I've noticed this, Dr. Mark, that people that are the healthiest that I know, most of them are learners. They're constantly reading, constantly learning, listening to your podcast, that sort of thing, my podcast. And I think that's another big part of being healthy. I want to say, hey, I'm just such a huge fan of yours. I'm just such an honor to be on today. And thanks so much for having me. Thanks, Josh. And if everybody's been listening, I encourage you to check out Josh's book, Ancient Remedies. Leave a comment. We'd love to hear from you and maybe how some ancient remedies have helped you. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And we'll see you next week on The Doctor's Pharmacy.

Starting point is 00:51:22 Hey, everybody. It's Dr. Hyman. Thanks for tuning into The Doctor's Pharmacy. I hope you're loving this podcast. It's one of my favorite things to do and introducing you to all the experts that I know and I love and that I've learned so much from. And I want to tell you about something else I'm doing, which is called Mark's Picks. It's my weekly newsletter.

Starting point is 00:51:38 And in it, I share my favorite stuff from foods to supplements to gadgets to tools to enhance your health. It's all the cool stuff that I use and that my team uses to optimize and enhance our health. And I'd love you to sign up for the weekly newsletter. I'll only send it to you once a week on Fridays. Nothing else, I promise. And all you do is go to drhyman.com forward slash pics to sign up. That's drhyman.com forward slash pics, P-I-C-K-S, and sign up for the newsletter. And I'll share with you my favorite stuff that I use to enhance my health and get healthier

Starting point is 00:52:13 and better and live younger, longer. Hi, everyone. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical

Starting point is 00:52:32 or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner. If you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, you can visit ifm.org and search their Find a Practitioner database. It's important that you have someone in your corner who's trained, who's a licensed healthcare practitioner, you can visit ifm.org and search their Find a Practitioner database. It's important that you have someone in your corner who's trained, who's a licensed healthcare practitioner, and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health.

The Dr. Hyman Show - Returning To Ancient Remedies To Promote Health with Dr. Josh Axe

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