The Dr. Hyman Show - Why Wasn’t Gluten an Issue 50 Years Ago?

Episode Date: July 19, 2019

A few decades ago, most people didn’t know anything about gluten. Today there is an unmistakable trend of people going gluten-free in the hopes of solving all of their gut woes. Why is this? In this mini-episode, Dr. Hyman explores this question with the world’s top gluten expert, Dr. Alessio Fasano. Dr. Fasano founded the Center for Celiac Research at the University of Maryland School of Medicine in 1996. In 2013, he moved the Center to Massachusetts General Hospital and renamed it the Center for Celiac Research and Treatment. He is chief of the Division of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition at MassGeneral Hospital for Children and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. Find Dr. Hyman’s full-length conversation with Dr. Fassano here: https://DrMarkHyman.lnk.to/DrAlessioFasano

Coming up on this week's episode of The Doctor's Pharmacy. Hundreds of years ago, we were eating gluten, we were eating wheat, and we didn't see the levels of autoimmunity, we didn't see the levels of celiac disease that we do now. Is the world overreacting to this gluten issue? Is it a fad or is there something there? Hi, I'm Kea Perowit, one of the producers of The Doctor's Pharmacy podcast. We are all aware that gluten has become a major topic when it comes to our food and our health. In this mini episode, Dr. Hyman speaks with GI health expert Alessio Fasano about the rise in celiac disease and gluten sensitivity and why so many of us are suddenly

experiencing challenges when it comes to eating gluten. My wife now is in Sardinia. I wish I was there with her. And she has trouble eating pasta in America because she always gets a stomach ache. But she said she's in Italy now and she doesn't. I know they don't allow GMOs in Italy, although wheat is not GMO, although they spray our wheat here with glyphosate at harvest, which may have an effect on the microbiome. But how do you sort of explain why we all of a sudden got this way? What are the changes that happen that make people more susceptible? Because the gluten's always been there. Is the gluten different in the wheat we have? Is something else changed in our guts and environment? Like what is this driving force?

First of all, the timeline that this epidemic is materializing is telling us that it's not genetic mutation in humankind that makes us more susceptible. So most likely we're changing the environment way too fast for us to adapt. And the example you were mentioning about your wife, and actually I hear this many times from people. You hear it a lot, right? I hear this all the time with my patients. They say, how come did I go to Europe and it looks that I can tolerate stuff that I cannot even look at when I'm in the United States.

Definitely I don't think the GMOs is an issue because, you know, of course, Europe in general have very strict regulation. GMOs are much stricter than us. But when you talk about grains like wheat, there is no such a thing. And it's not an isolated phenomenon. Every chronic inflammatory diseases are on the rise. You know, allergic disease, autoimmune disease, neurodegenerative disease like Alzheimer's.

Everybody's inflamed. That's right. We as human beings, we do not have enzymes to completely dismantle gluten in its basic elements, amino acids. What we do is a partial digestion and what is left over is undigestible fragments that can instigate inflammation. We know that.

To make bread, you take yeast, you take water, you take the flour, and you make your dough. These have those enzymes that can completely dismantle these toxic elements. In Europe, bread is still made the old-fashioned. This is an overnight process, so you have 10, 12 hours that these enzymes can dismantle the load of this, you know, fragments. Not here. The process takes two hours because now it's accelerated artificially. So you give only two hours to these enzymes to decrease the load.

So the grain is the same. The culture is the same. What about pasta? You don't have to level pasta? No. But again, the way that you prepare pasta is there are processes that you have to go through uh the executions the drying of the pasta and so on and so forth and again give less time if you speed up the process to make this right that's one the

other is you know as you were alluding to pesticides, we use pesticides here, they are not allowed in Europe. And, you know, again, that changed completely the landscape, because now you introduce another variable that can affect the way that we, in terms of our immune system, can react to any given product. And it will happen to be grain, but it can be any other product that can give you the same kind of reaction. And then, of course, the great unknowns that we still don't understand, because even here in the United States, it's not homogeneous. So you have pockets of places in which this phenomenon seems to be much stronger than other pockets of the place.

So there's got to be some environmental situation that we still poorly control. So there's the quality of the food, how we produce the food, all those things in terms of traditional methods that may affect people's sensitivity. But you also talk about the changes in the gut microbiome. And you originally came into this through your study on cholera. And now you're sort of coming back to it, looking at, wait a minute, why are people so sensitive?

It's not, oh, you're sensitive to gluten, let's get you off gluten. It's like, why is this happening? And how is our change in our environment, toxins, stress, diet, antibiotics, C-sections, how has that led to this increase in autoimmunity, increase in celiac disease and allergic and inflammatory disorders? And of course, you alluded to some of the factors. So, you know, our lifestyle. You know, mostly we're living a rural lifestyle, you know, one or two generations ago. So living, you know, in vicinity of animals. Or exposed to a lot more microbes.

That's right. A variety, but you name it, parasites, viruses, you know, bacteria. But there was a full exchange. And then again, we make, again, this other convention that we are isolated, xylose in terms of environment. We are in a continuous cycle of life. So soil, animal, human, back to soil. And the waters, we conventionally analyze them separately,

but we are a unified ecosystem. Yes. And you we are whatever we are, because we co-evolve with microbes. It's not that we In fact it's waste. That's right. From Mars, and then all of a sudden we've been exposed to something we've never seen before. We look and act and you know, are shaped the way that we are because we co-evolve with this ecosystem. If you affect food, you affect the composition of the microbiome. If you put the microbiome back in balance where it's supposed to be based on our evolutionary plans, the immune system will defend us rather than be belligerent against us and will unleash inflammation only when it's

definitely needed if you have a balanced microbiome you also will have a gut permeability that will go back the way they're supposed to be and a good gut permeability will make the immune system to be less belligerent so it's all interconnected one of the things i read i don't know if it's true is that in the in the effort to increase food production, we hybridize and bred wheat to contain more starch and to be shorter and drought resistant and grow better and produce more carbohydrates, which is a dwarf wheat. And in the process, we combined the genes of different wheat strains, which led to more gliadin proteins in the dwarf wheat, and that those gliadin proteins seem to be more of the ones that trigger inflammation. Is that part of why we've seen this increase? There's been such a change, no question about that. So Romans and

Greeks, they used to eat, you know, a very tall, you know, base wheat. The wheat we eat is not the wheat we ate. No, no, absolutely. But, you know, it was a tall plant. You know, only 5% of the top had seeds. 4% of the dry wheat was gluten at that time. we increased the heel to make more producible and useful wheat by doubling the amount of gluten in there. So from four to 8%. And then the last reiteration was during the agricultural revolution that where this dwarf

wheat, so one third of the plant now is seeds, so the efficiency is much higher. And now we're talking about 12% rather than 4% as we started a thousand years ago. The epidemics that we have seen materialize after this event. So I don't think that is the cultivars that have been pretty much fueled by farmers to heal. That's what it is, is fueling the epidemics. I really do believe that it's more the way that we handle the products. And what your wife experienced in Sardinia is testimonial. It's not that the genetics and the load of wheat,

a load of gluten in wheat is the culprit. So It's not like they grow more ancient strains there. No, no. Well, you know, of course there's going to be less gluten in there and ancient grains can be beneficial, for example, for people who don't see the gluten sensitivity. Like iron corn wheat. That's right. You know, to decrease the load of gluten would not be beneficial for celiacs because no matter if it's 4% or 12%, it's way too much. Yeah. Fascinating. Gluten has been found to negatively impact the lining of the gut, creating leaky gut or intestinal permeability, even in those who do not have celiac disease.

This is why as a part of his vegan diet, Dr. Hyman recommends avoiding gluten. As you've surely noticed, many food companies, restaurants, and supermarkets have hopped on the gluten-free bandwagon. Don't let the food industry fool you. Gluten-free junk food is still junk food loaded with artificial sugars, processed vegetable or hydrogenated oils, trans fats, added gums, and other additives to increase their shelf life. Pay attention to the ingredients in the food you eat and the order in which the ingredients are listed. If a real food is listed at the order in which the ingredients are listed. If a real food is listed at the end and sugar or ingredients you don't recognize are listed at the top, it might be best to avoid the food.

The most abundant ingredient is always listed first. Others are listed in descending order by weight. If you see any words on a label you can't pronounce, you might also want to avoid the food. As much as possible, take it one step further and avoid foods with extensive labels altogether and stick to real whole foods. Thank you for tuning into this mini episode of The Doctor's Pharmacy. I hope you enjoyed it. Hi everyone, I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other

professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner. If you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, you can visit ifm.org and search their find a practitioner database. It's important that you have someone in your corner who's trained, who's a licensed healthcare practitioner, and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health.