The Dr. Hyman Show - Why Weight Matters and How to Break the Chains of Obesity

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

View the Show Notes For This Episode Get Free Weekly Health Tips from Dr. Hyman Sign Up for Dr. Hyman’s Weekly Longevity Journal Obesity rates are at an all-time high, even in our children, despite the common recommendation to eat less and exercise more. While calories may be one piece of the puzzle, weight is so much more nuanced than that including factors such as mother’s metabolic health during pregnancy, chemicals called obesogens, inflammation, hormones, and more. In this episode, Dr. Hyman speaks with Dr. Elizabeth Boham, Calley Means, and Dr. Casey Means about the obesity crisis, how we got here, and what we can do about it. This episode is brought to you by Rupa Health, ButcherBox and Mitopure. Streamline your lab orders with Rupa Health. Access more than 3,000 specialty lab tests and register for a FREE live demo at RupaHealth.com. ButcherBox is giving new members 2 pounds of wild-caught salmon for FREE +$20 off. Visit ButcherBox.com/Farmacy and use code FARMACY. Support essential mitochondrial health and save 10% on Mitopure. Visit TimelineNutrition.com/Drhyman and use code DRHYMAN10.

Coming up on this episode of The Doctor's Pharmacy. I do think that it's important that we understand that the food environment we create for our children determines their whole life. If you're obese as a kid, your life expectancy is 13 years less than if you're not. Now, I know there are a ton of functional medicine practitioners who listen to this podcast.

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go to butcherbox.com forward slash pharmacy. That's F-A-R-M-A-C-Y. Now, obesity rates in America are at an all-time high, even in our kids. And while diet is a factor, it's not just as simple as controlling what we put in our mouths. There are numerous other levers at play that influence our weight, including things like our genetics, our gut microbiome, toxins, our mitochondrial function, hormones, and even our social networks. In today's episode, we feature four conversations from the doctor's pharmacy about what is behind the rising rates of obesity and what we can do about it. I talk with Dr. Elizabeth Bohem about how our metabolic health is formed in utero and why it's important to foster a healthy diet in childhood. With Callie Means, we talk about big food pushing ultra-processed food influences nutrition policy that doesn't reflect true healthy dietary guidelines.

And I talk about how grains can contribute to obesity. And finally, Dr. Casey Means and I discuss the role of obesogens and how they have a huge role in increasing fat mass. So let's jump in. When a child gets obese or overweight as a child, it makes it so much harder for them when they're an adult. Kind of programs them. It programs them, it gives them extra fat cells. It makes it very hard for them when they're an adult. It kind of programs them. It programs them. It gives them extra fat cells. It makes it very hard for them to maintain a normal weight as an adult. Prevention is really key here. It's very important that we deal with prevention because it makes it

easier for that child for their whole life if we prevent that weight gain in the first place. And it's not just the health consequences, which are staggering, right? Increased heart disease, gallstones, fatty liver, sleep apnea, high blood pressure, asthma, sleep apnea, all kinds of orthopedic problems. Those are bad enough. But it is the worst stigma for a kid to be overweight. I mean, they've studied kids and they'd rather hang out with a kid in a wheelchair who's a quadriplegic than a kid who's overweight. That's how bad the stigma is. And we often stigmatize each other and the kids because we have this view that it's personal choice. But when you're dumped into an environment with foods that are highly addictive, that are designed to hijack your brain chemistry, hijack your hormones, hijack your metabolism, deliberately designed by your hormones, hijack your metabolism deliberately,

designed by food companies in taste institutes who hire craving experts to create the bliss point of food. I'm not making this up. Literally, the terms they use in their internal corporate documents to create heavy users, I mean, this is just criminal in my view. It's criminal. And the food marketing to kids, I mean the average two year old barely talk, but they can recognize junk food and call for it by name when they go to the grocery store and they came and walk.

Yep. That is terrifying to me. And kids can't distinguish on television or an ad between reality and fiction until they're eight years old. Yep. And there's now stealth marketing, which is terrifying because kids see thousands and thousands, maybe 10,000 commercials a year on television. But Facebook, for example, had 5 billion, with a B, billion ads for junk food targeted

to kids in one year. How do you fight that? It's so hard. It's so hard to fight it. But it's important. I mean, when you go, when you bring your child to the doctors, what you're looking at, they look at the growth chart and they look at the BMI. And if, you know, the BMI or body mass index is not a perfect marker. I mean, there's problems with it, but it is something we use as a guide and it can give

you some indication of where your child's at. So if you're greater than the 85th percentile for your child's age and sex, they're considered overweight. And greater than 95th percentile on that growth chart, you're considered obese. And now we have a category for the severe obesity, which is super obese, which is 20% over that 95th percentile. And for BMI- It's not going to be more than 100%. I know. It's like you're 120%.

Right. And so if your BMI is greater than 35 for a child- Just to put that in perspective, these percentile graphs are made on population data where they look at the entire population and the whole population has to fit into 100%, right? Zero to 100. Now they had to create a new category of 120% or more. Well, how does that happen? It happens because the entire population shifts into a category that never existed before. There were no kids who were that overweight unless they had some weird genetic disorder, like Pickwick syndrome or something.

I think we are really in this crisis now because we're threatening the next generation of our entire human race. And this is happening globally. It's not just here. Absolutely. We see it's 5% of children or adolescents in the US. And for those teenage years, 7% of girls and 9% of boys are in that severe obesity category. And as you mentioned earlier, a third of children are either overweight or obese.

And as we have just talked about, prevention is key here. That's just making it so much harder for them throughout their whole lives. And whatever we can do at this stage of the game with your young children, whatever you can do at this stage of the game for, with your young children, whatever you can do at this stage of the game is really critical for setting them up for success. And it's often a lack of education, awareness, understanding it's generational. It's, it's, uh, you know, food apartheid, uh, which is this term that's been used over the last few years by people in these communities to talk about what's really going on. Because a food desert sounds like a natural phenomenon. Oh, it's a desert. It's a forest.

You know, it's a river. No, it's, it's, this is much more serious. This is, this is segregation and division of our culture in ways that lead and perpetuate to racial injustice, to structural racism and structural violence that drives these, these communities to continue to suffer from chronic disease and health disparities and obesity. I mean, the average African-American kid drinks twice as much soda as a white kid. Not because they like it more. It's because there's just a lack of education, awareness. And there's also increased pressure of marketing in these communities. I mean, every time there's a food stamp coming out

every month and you get your food stamps for the month, the local bodegas will actually put giant ads up for, you know, get your two liter bottle of soda. We take EFT, electronic funds, whatever they call it, EFTs. And it's like, it's just, it's just unconscionable to me. And it's terrifying to me because we're really threatening the next generation of our population. And if we don't stop and take care of this now, it's terrifying. Harvey Karp, who's a friend, a physician, who's a pediatrician, said, you know, if a foreign nation were doing to our children what we are doing, we would go to war to protect them.

We would go to war. We are not doing anything to protect our kids. Nothing. We're not limiting food marketing. We're not getting rid of all these junk crap foods that they're targeting kids. We're not fixing the school lunch program. School lunches are better because of Obama's Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act, but it's still not where it needs to be. A pizza is still a vegetable. Yeah. And I mean, that's a great. A pizza is still a vegetable. Yeah. And I mean, that's a great place to start is just with the added sugar. I mean, they say that the average child is consuming 270 calories a day, which is 10

to 15% of their total caloric intake on sugar sweetened beverages. So that's 10 to 15% of calories that are nutrient devoid, no nutritional value, and are only leading to this whole problem of weight gain, insulin resistance, type two diabetes, and metabolic issues throughout their whole life. You know, as we've talked in the past all about how that shifts your fertility and your I mean, there's so many aspects to it. So I mean, that's a great place to start. And no, really most of our kids, all our kids, very few of our kids need any sort of sports drinks at all. Energy drinks, sports drinks, juice boxes.

Yeah. I mean, it's terrible. One soda increases a kid's risk of being obese by 60%, one soda a day. It's crazy. It's pretty crazy. And, and, and it's, it's, it's, it's a huge part of the caloric intake. It's up to 15% of the average kid's intake. And it's, it's something that's just so unnecessary. That was at a conference on childhood obesity and it was in Atlanta and Bernice King was there. It was really fascinating. It was with, it was with, um, I, I, you know, uh, one of the major universities there, Emory, I think.

And, uh, there was a guy, a doctor there who was a liver specialist. And I'm like, what are you doing here? He's a pediatric liver. I'm like, he said, well, you know, we're seeing enormous rates of fatty liver in kids. And we're seeing teenagers on the transplant list for livers. Yep. All because of insulin resistance and mostly from sugar sweetened beverages, right? Yeah. From high fructose corn syrup, which is specifically targets the liver in terms of creating a fatty liver. And for those of you who really want to understand a lot about these issues,

there was a movie a few years ago, came out in 2014 that I starred in. Well, not really started, but I was in it. And it's called Fed Up. It's on Netflix. And I encourage you to watch it because it really highlights the ways in which our children are so affected by this. I mean, there's a kid who's 16 years old who needs a gastric bypass. Right. Right. Huge. How does that make sense? It doesn't make any sense. So we want to talk about what can we do? What can you do when, how can you feed your child right from the start? Right. And so the first thing we always

talk about is the importance of breastfeeding. You know, we know that whenever possible, you want to breastfeed your child because it decreases their risk of obesity lifelong. So, you know, that is an important thing. There's really, how does that work? So, you know, that's a great question. I have some ideas. You know, there's, you're shifting, it's the composition of the breast milk, you're shifting, there's better limitations on what the baby will consume. So when they're breastfeeding, they don't consume as much as when they're bottle fed. You know, the bottle feeding, you get more milk faster through a bottle than you do through a breast. And so that actually

impacts the amount of calories that the baby consumes. There's probably issues. Sure, there's issues with the microbiome that gets shifted through breastfeeding that is not happening when babies are bottle fed. There could be even what's in the bottle itself, right? So if the bottle is a hard plastic, we know, you know, for example, BPA is impacting our metabolism and our weight. Yes. So, so there's probably so many issues with, with the, with breastfeeding versus bottle feeding. Yeah. I mean, what's fascinating is when you drink a formula, it actually changes the microbiome and feeds bugs that are pretty toxic and create inflammation in the body. And what's really fascinating about breast milk is that there's all these undigestible

fibers and starches in there called these oligosaccharides that have no nutritional value for the baby, but they're designed completely to feed the microbiome, which is just this beautiful sort of virtuous cycle that is allowing these kids to thrive and get healthy and reduce inflammation and really get them healthy. So not everybody can breastfeed, but it is really important. I think that's really key. What else can parents do? You know, and avoiding those sugar-sweetened beverages, as we've mentioned. That's, you know... But it is really important. I think that's really key. What else can parents do?

You know, and avoiding those sugar-sweetened beverages, as we've mentioned. That's, you know- No liquid sugar calories, period. Period. No juice. No juice, no sports drinks, no soda, you know, no, I don't know, Kool-Aid or any of those. There's just no need for any of it. It's empty calories and there's no need. Every once in a while, you can give a child

some diluted 100% juice if you want to, but it's not necessary. It's not something they should have every day. And it's not part of their fruit and vegetable consumption. No, it's not part of their fruit and vegetable consumption. So that's key. Getting your kids moving, getting them outside every day, that's really important. It gets them, you know, unfortunately, it's harder to move these days unless you put it into your schedule and we need to put it into our kids' schedule. We need to make it part of their day that they get out and they move and they either they're playing a sport or they're just having fun.

And they, you know, they spend some time. They're doing a lot of finger exercises on their phone. Oh my goodness, the phone. It's, you know, it's- Scrolling, tapping doing a lot of finger exercises on their phone. Oh my goodness, the phone. It's, you know, it's. Scrolling, tapping, liking. It's making it so much harder for parents. It's making it so much harder for parents to help their kids grow and develop. So screen time, really the recommendations are none for kids under the age of two.

And then, you know, less than two hours after that, you know, you want to limit screens in the bedroom. There's no need for a TV, a phone, or a computer in the bedroom. So you just have the kids not have it in there. It helps with their sleep, which is another thing that's critical. Most kids are not sleeping enough in this country, and that has a huge impact on their metabolism. We know that when we're sleep deprived, we're more likely to gain weight, we have higher levels of insulin, we have higher levels of insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome. So it's really important that you put restrictions on your children's sleep and wake cycle. That really is helpful. You know, our teenagers still need eight to 10 hours a night.

Those six to 12 year olds need nine to 12 hours of sleep a night. And of course, you know, the one to two year olds are needing 11 to 14 hours. So, you know, as you get younger, you're needing more sleep. But even though teenagers need eight to 10 hours of night of sleep,

and that's, you know, it gets harder when they get older. They want to stay up late. They want to be on their phone. They want to talk to somebody. And, you know, it gets harder when they get older. They want to stay up late. They want to be on their phone. They want to talk to somebody. And, you know, it's really important. Yeah. Now, today I'm excited to talk about a true pioneer in the healthy aging space,

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and endurance without any changes in exercise, if you can believe that. But it's true. It's backed by more than 15 years of clinical research. And I can tell you personally that my workouts have never felt more productive, with improved stamina and recovery times. And ready for the best part? Timeline is giving my listeners an exclusive 10% off your first order. Just head over to timeline.com forward slash Dr. Hyman and unlock a healthier, more vibrant you. We know that children in the children years, if they get to sleep before 8 p.m., they have a lower rate of obesity and they

have a lower rate of weight gain. They have less, of course, sleep deprivation. They get better sleep. We know that sleep deprivation, as I mentioned, increases insulin. It increases ghrelin, which makes them hungry. If you don't sleep enough, you're hungrier and you crave more sugar and carbs. Absolutely. And then you create this.

That's true for adults as well. It is. It creates this inflammatory process in the body that even if you're eating the right foods, you're more likely to gain weight, which I think is important to remember that even if you're eating the right foods, if you're not sleeping enough, your metabolism can be messed up. I talk to my daughter about this one all the time. I bet.

You know? Well, the other thing I often talk about is how do you make your home a safe zone? Yes. I mean, a kid who's three years old who's gaining weight or five years old isn't saying, hey, dad, can I have the keys, go to a car? I'm going to go to McDonald's or I'm going to 7-Eleven to get a big gulp. They're not doing that. How do you make your home a safe zone? I think this is so important. Yes, it's okay to have treats. If you're making, make cookies zone? I think this is so important. Yes, it's okay to have treats. If you're making, make cookies yourself. Like make it from real ingredients.

Don't, you know, eat a ton of them. You can have stuff, but if you want French fries, make them yourself. I think there's a level of responsibility that the parents have, which is also important for themselves to actually create a safe home environment for their children. People put little things in the plugs. I mean, the kid is less likely to die from electrocution than they are from the bad food that you have in your cupboard, than the Froot Loops you're serving them for breakfast or the French toast or the sweetened yogurt, which has more sugar per ounce than a can of soda. So we really have to take that seriously. And in my house, my son once said, Dad, I want to invite my friends over,

but there's nothing to eat in the house, right? And of course, there was a lot to eat. It just was stuff you had to cook and make, and it was real food. I said, okay, let's go to the grocery store. I said, you can get it whenever you want. Buy whatever you want. There's one condition. You have to read the label and it can't have any trans fats or high fructose corn syrup. He's like, dad, there's nothing to buy. Nothing. And I'm like, exactly. There are grocery stores where you can buy healthier forms of snacks.

There are a place like Thrive Market. You can go to thrivemarket.com and find delicious snacks that are lower in sugar, that are higher in protein, that have good fats, that don't have all the refined starches and sugars. So you can do it, but it takes a little work and it takes a little education. And I think that's the problem is we really aren't taking this seriously as a society. And now your son is an amazing cook and he loves to cook and make delicious food that I've gotten the great opportunity to consume. So, I mean, I think we have to be getting our kids into the kitchen at a young age, even when they're two, having that high chair or their bouncy seat right

in the kitchen, getting them used to and around your cooking, getting them involved, having them have input, you know, really is helpful. You know, we don't want to be just like, oh, you can't have this and you want to have this. You want them involved in the process. It makes it a lot better. You know, you want them having suggestions like, you know, let's come up together with some healthy food that you want to have tonight. What would you like to help me cook? Can you help with preparation, peeling or cutting or mixing?

That really gets them involved and they become part of the recipe and the preparation. And then they love it more and then they want to eat it more. Yeah, and you can make cool stuff that's delicious. Instead of making waffles from white flour, you can make waffles from cashews, for example. So I make cashew waffles or you make almond flour pancakes. So there's substitutes and swaps. Kids can still have fun. And you don't have to put a ton of maple syrup.

You can use fruit. You can use fruit spreads. So there's a lot of hacks. When my kids were young, we had a book called Pretend Soup, which was like 50 recipes that are fun to make with their kids, that have fun names, that are delicious to eat, that are made from real ingredients. And so I think we all have to get back in the kitchen. I think the average person in America spends more time watching cooking on television than actually cooking themselves.

So I think we have to get back into the cooking situation. It doesn't have to be that hard. We had a doctor dinner at our house the other night, and you came a little bit late, but George George was there and Ty was there early and literally nothing was ready. And it was 5.15 and everybody's come over at 5.30. And literally dinner was ready on the table at 5.45. And we made this incredible meal. I just stuck some, you know, lion's wings, mushrooms in the oven. We, we sauteed some Chinese cabbage and garlic, which took three minutes. We put a, you know, roasted salmon in the oven for 20 minutes and roasted squash, butternut and kabocha squash and toss some cinnamon on there.

And we just threw it all in the oven. It was, it was like delicious. It was delicious, Mark. Thank you. It's a gourmet meal, but it doesn't have to be so hard and it can be incredibly yummy and delicious. And I think, you know, that was delicious. Thank you. And I think what's really critical is just recognizing how important it is to be working right from the beginning, right when your kids are, when they're born and early in life and not just sort of putting it off because it really makes a huge difference for them

later on. The first case I have is this 10-year-old. And for boys, it's actually a common age where they do start to gain some weight because it's before they start to grow. And so sometimes a little bit of extra weight around that age may be okay, but this mom was getting concerned and he was gaining a little too much weight around his belly. And, you know, he was, he was starting to play more on his phone and playing more games on his phone. So he was becoming less active outside.

And when we got his detailed food intake, you know, we realized, and mom actually realized how much some of these processed, refined carbohydrates were sneaking into his diet. Not that he had a bad diet, but they sneak in, right? He was having some pancakes for breakfast and he'd come home from school and snack on crackers and pretzels and with some juice. And he was kind of picky. He wasn't a big vegetable eater. So what was really critical and what we really focused on with him, and as you know, we have a nutritionist with every patient who comes in, they see a nutritionist as well. So our nutritionist really focused on, you know, getting him cooking and getting him excited with different vegetables in the kitchen and went shopping with mom. And we encouraged mom to really, and dad, to pull out some of the refined and processed foods at home.

So they weren't even around. Like you said, make it a safe zone. So he's not like, he doesn't have to, oh, okay, I'm going to not want to eat those extra cookies or the extra crackers. You don't even have to make the decision. The food's just not there at that level. I mean, yeah, I think you can go out and stuff if you want to treat or whatever, but it's an effort.

If you have to drive five miles to go get ice cream, you might not do it, right? Right. And listen, there are many nights when I would be home, if there was a Haagen-Dazs vanilla Swiss almond or Ben and Jerry's Chunky Monkey in the fridge, I would eat it. I would eat it. Even me, who knows more than most people about nutrition and has written many, many books about it, I would eat it. So I just don't have it in the house. My daughter, we're on vacation in Martha's Vineyard. It's like, dad, let's go get ice cream. I'm like, okay. It's like a 20 minute drive. Like, do we really want to go? Okay. We'll go once, you know, and it'll be a treat and I'll do it like once or twice a summer.

Hey, no, it's fine. But it's, it's the daily inundation with the ultra processed foods, which is 60% of our calories is killing our kids. And I think, you know, we really have to understand the role of the family. And even if you have a, you know, a weird family, you know, like a single parent or I was a single parent, you know, you can do it. And I made it a huge point to have family dinners. And I'm just amazed at how many families don't eat together. And I was interviewing Sean Stevenson, who grew up in a very underserved area, was very food insecure, lived on food stamps. He said he can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he sat down with his entire family for a family dinner. And it was something that I insisted on, even when I was working hard, even when I was a single parent, had a job, just trying to do it all. It was so important to me to come home, to cook with the kids, bring them in the kitchen, have them help, teach them about food. And now they're both amazing cooks.

They love to make food. I didn't teach them to cook. We just did it as part of life. And it's sort of how we all grew up learning the traditions. And now we have generations who don't know how to cook, who've never cooked a meal, who don't know how to stir fry a vegetable, who don't know how to cook an egg, who don't know how to just do the most simple things other than open a package and stick it in a microwave. Yeah. And I think that's what really was great with this first case here of the 10- 10 year old boy is that he learned a lot more about nutrition and he got involved in it. And then he was the one leading the way, you know, in terms of let's make this mom and let's

add in this vegetable. And, and, and, and we really also focused on his sleep, you know, at age 10, you need, you know, that 10 to 12 hours of sleep a night. And a lot of times parents forget that, you know, and they don't realize they sleep a night. And a lot of times parents forget that, you know, and they don't realize they still need a lot, a lot of sleep, those kids. So that was really important. And, um, you know, he's doing great. He grew, he's grown, he grew, he grew. And so his, his weight is now in the normal range and he's just really thriving and doing really well. It's wonderful. You know, it's not, it's not always easy and it is a struggle. I mean, I used to make my kids lunch every day and healthy lunches and bring them to school, and they would like trade with other kids.

So you can only go so far, but there's a lot we can do as parents to make a difference. And there's also a lot we need to do as a society to address this at a bigger scale. You know, in some countries like Chile, they've eliminated all food marketing to kids between six in the morning and 10 at night. They've put warning labels on boxes. They've taken off Tony the Tiger and all cartoon characters from any kids foods. They've not allowed any junk in schools. You know, now in our schools, they have what we call competitive foods, right? Yep.

So competitive. So let's see. Do you want an apple or do you want a cookie? Like, well, the kid's going to eat a cookie, of course. Right. So, so the whole system is terrible in our schools. The, the school lunches need a long way to go. You know, 50% of schools have brand name, brand name, fast food companies serving food in their school cafeteria. It's a Taco Bell Tuesday. It's McDonald's Monday. It's Wendy's Wednesday. I mean, it's, it's terrible out there. And, and, you know, Pizza Hut and this and that,

and, and, and, you know, 80% get funding from soda companies and there's soda machines and it's just, it's really criminal. And even the, you know, the school lunch is okay. And then of course they, they, they, they, they circle the kids' schools and the school districts, especially in underserved areas, with bodegas, with all kinds of crap, with fast food restaurants. So, I mean, think about it. You wouldn't let crack dealers stand outside the playground and be ready for when your kids come off the playground to give them some crack. And that's exactly what we're doing with our kids. And then sports drinks. You know, a lot of times parents think, oh, my kid just played four hours of soccer today and they need a Gatorade or two.

You just don't need to do that. You can just give orange slices at halftime and give them water. And there's electrolyte replacements, if you want to use that, that don't have added sugar. And you can just use coconut water too. There's lots of ways to avoid all that extra sugar. It's true. I mean, we have to, as parents, take a stand. We have to go into our schools and take a stand. But also we need bigger systemic change. And I think that's one of the things I've really focused on. And with Food Fix book I wrote last, I really talked about the bigger systemic issues because we can do all we want as parents. But if their kids are seeing 5 billion ads on Facebook, if they're getting 10,000 commercials, if they're targeting poor minorities, if they're, you know, using, you know, basically mind manipulation techniques

to get these kids to become addicted to these foods, if they're using, you know, all these cartoon characters, I mean, you know, Disney went so far as to say, we're going to take out all this stuff from the, from the, you know, McDonald's, the food. We're not allowing that to happen anymore. There are companies that are doing it, but we need real serious policy change because our children are so threatened. And I do think we need to go to war to solve this because, you know, we are heading towards such a horrible crisis. You know, it's like COVID, right? You say, oh, there's 180,000 new cases. Okay, great. And then the hospitalizations aren't so bad. But three weeks

later, the hospitals are full. It's not three weeks with obesity, but it's 10 years, 20 years later. And what's really frightening to me, Liz, is when you look at the data on how these kids do, not only are they stigmatized as kids, not only are there these social ramifications, but these kids are less likely to graduate high school. They're less likely to get a job. They're less likely to have a good career. They're less likely to earn a significant income. They're less likely to have successful relationships and marriages. And it's like, wow, like this is unconscionable. It's unconscionable. And, and, you know, as we mentioned, what, you know,

if you're overweight at a young age, it's just much, much, much harder to maintain a healthy weight as an adult. And so it's really important for us to deal with prevention and not just then, you know, working on, oh, we've got to get the weight down, weight down, weight down as an adult. You want to prevent it from the start. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think we are in a crisis moment. And, you know, when I read that stat that one in four teenage boys has diabetes or type two diabetes or prediabetes.

Yeah. I mean, how do we live with ourselves as a nation if we let this happen to our children? We think it's obvious if you really step back, the biggest issue in the country right now is that we're all getting sicker, fatter, more depressed, more infertile. Just to go over the stats that I think

our eyes can gloss over the stats, but more than 25% of young adults having prediabetes, 20% of teens having fatty liver disease, 50% of teens now being overweight or obese, and then that going to close to 80% now overweight or obese for adults. I mean, truly, this is the biggest issue in the country. Yeah, but it's so incredible, Callie, that it's not part of our political discourse. When you hear people campaigning, when you hear debates on the debate stage, when you hear news reports about what's wrong with our country or what's going on, this is absent from the conversation. It's just so striking to me.

Yeah, the most striking thing is that when you really, and again, Mark, I'm coming from a different direction than a lot of people you talk to and you. I'm coming from a swamp creature, but I don't think talk to and you. I'm coming from a swamp creature. But I don't think it's that complicated that we're getting sicker because of food. And the most shocking thing, and I think the most appalling thing that's happening, is not only is the medical system not ringing the alarm bell about food, not only is the dean of Harvard Med School or the head of the NIH not standing before Congress saying, let's not give kids sugar. Let's at least not recommend it like the USDA does. They're actually in bed with the food companies. The most shocking thing I saw is the Heritage Foundation taking money from Coca-Cola to say that it's, you know, immoral and against

conservative principles to not, you know, give poor kids Coke. The actual, the American Diabetes Association taking money from Coke, medical groups that should be fighting against this liquid sugar that's causing pre-diabetes and diabetes among kids, they're taking money. So it's actually the direct ties, the direct ties, as you pointed out, of nutrition schools taking 11 times more money from processed food companies than they take from the NIH. That they're the lifeblood. The food industry basically funds almost 12 times as much research dollar-wise as the NIH in food and nutrition. And those studies are eight to 50 times more likely, eight to 50 times more likely to show a positive result. In other

words, if you're studying dairy and you're funded by the Dairy Council, you're going to find it's a great sports drink. It's healthy for you and we should be recommending it. And yet independent science doesn't show that. I was just at Stanford Med School with my sister a week ago. You walk into where students learn and there's a Coke machine. And I actually worked, when I was working for Coke, we really tried and it was a concerted effort to funnel monies and sponsor hospitals and hospitals took that money yeah it is it is like drug rehab clinics taking money from heroin makers it's like these hospitals are full of people with metabolic conditions that's what's overflowing our hospitals and the fact that it's not it's like it's like having a it's like having a heroin dispenser in a rehab center. Exactly.

The hospitals, 85% of costs, 85% roughly of deaths are tied to preventable foodborne metabolic conditions. And the strategy working for the food company is how do we funnel money to the pharmaceutical and healthcare industries? And they take that money. Yeah. And they're silent on why we're getting sick. So that's really the, I believe, the biggest issue in the world that we need to ampute. It's really insidious. You know, the food industry, and not including the pharma industry, is the biggest industry in the planet.

Ag, big fast food, processed food companies. It's about $16 trillion globally. It employs more people than any industry. And it, again, is driving so much of the problems. I just got back from Africa and I visited the Maasai and I was shocked to see, you know, this village where they don't have any water, they don't have electricity. That was just a giant truck full of Coca-Cola and Fanta, which is a Coke product, pulled up within minutes.

All these tribal people in, you know, really traditional tribal dress who were living on the milk, meat, and blood of their cows for their diet were just sucking back these cokes. And literally the whole thing emptied out and the bottles were stacked up and within minutes. And I was just shocked. And I said to the chief, I said, um, does this truck come often? He's like, yeah, it comes every day like this.

I said, you understand that sugar is not good for you and that it may cause diabetes. He says, really? I said, yeah. He says, well, that's amazing because most of our population is now dying of diabetes. And this is the Maasai tribe, so, you know, really never had exposure to this. And where you can't even get running water, you can get Coca-Cola. And I think this is part of the problem. It's so insidious. And as I began to sort of unpack this myself and look at the cause to cause a cause, because as a functional medicine doctor, I'm very interested in what's the cause, what's the root cause, and then what's

the cause of the cause of the cause. And I began to look at the way the food industry operated and why my patients were eating this stuff and why the population at large was so sick, I realized it was really a multifaceted, coordinated, very detailed strategy. It wasn't something random. One, like you said, nutrition industry funds, or the food industry, I'm going to say, don't call it nutrition because there's not much nutrition in there, funds 12 times as much research as NIH. Two, they co-op social groups and corporate responsibilities. As you mentioned, they fund the NAACP. I remember being down at the King Center, Atlanta, with Bernice King, and we wanted to show the movie Fed Up, which talked about childhood obesity. And she was very inspired about it and wanted to show the movie there.

And we had it scheduled. And just a few days before the screening of the movie, we were called and said, no, no, we can't show the movie there. I'm like, why? Well, Coca-Cola funds the King Center in Atlanta. They fund Morehouse College and they fund Spelman College, Morehouse. Spelman are black colleges in Atlanta. Spelman College is a female black college. 50% of the entering class of 18 year olds have a chronic disease, either diabetes, obesity, hypertension, and all over the campus for Coca-Cola machines. They also not only co-op social groups, but they create front groups, things like the American Council on Science and Health, which sound great or crop life or various kinds of things that have great sounding names, but are actually controlled and

funded by food pharma, big ag. And they actually recommend things like pesticides are good for you and trans fats are okay. And smoking is not bad. And, and, and they're calling out all these issues that are making them seem like they're a high level scientific organization. And as you said, there's also incredible lobbying. Just on one bill, on the GMO labeling bill, a number of years ago, there was $192 million spent on this one bill. The farm bill has half a billion dollars in lobbying spent on just one bill, which you shouldn't really call the farm bill. It's mostly the food bill. And so we have all these concerted efforts and co-opting of different aspects that are, are really problematic and that are, that are creating a kind of almost a, uh, I would say a narcotized population that

doesn't realize this is happening and has co-opted the government. I mean, I, and I think there are good people in government. You and I've been in Washington last year, and I've been working on the food Fix campaign, my nonprofit, to try to address these issues through policy change. People are getting it. I've been meeting with literally well over 100 plus members of Senate and Congress and the White House and various health departments. To a person, nobody is seeing this as not a problem.

They don't quite understand it. Their educational level is pretty low. One guy I met with, really sweet guy who was a congressman, and he was like, you know, lost 25 pounds. I did a talk earlier. I went into a group of congressmen, and he read my book, and he followed the program. He looked so much better.

We had no drink after work one day. He's like, this is so great. I feel so good. I said, great. Why don't we do a sugar detox for Congress? And he's like, I love the idea, but I'm on the candy caucus. I'm on the candy caucus because my district has a lot of candy makers. So I can't really do it.

That is sort of a story that I think that underscores the problem we see in Washington and why we're so screwed. And I think what I'm so happy about with what you're doing is you're bringing to light across so many different channels of media, social media, television, these issues, and now people are starting to listen and you're getting called up on, on major news shows and major programs, so the Dressel Brand or Fox News or other media outlets that are able to actually start to pay attention to this issue. So I'm just really grateful for you. What have you found as you've gone out and started to kind of hammer these messages that you are so good at articulating?

Yeah, I think there's a couple of things, because I've been in dozens of conversations behind closed doors with members of Congress. I think the question I'm really wondering, and I think probably a lot of people are, is like, why is it the way it is? And I actually ask that to people. And you hit on this a little bit, but I really dig into that because as you've seen, bipartisan, almost to a person, people are concerned about this issue. People have kids go into a classroom and see that there's clearly something wrong happening in America. I think there's an innate sense that our food is compromised and clearly something bad is happening. So it's a couple of things. I think actually, number one, it just goes to this corruption

and the rigging of the institutions of the trust. What I hear time and time again from members of Congress is that they came in and aren't health experts, right? They were military guys or they were focused on farming or something, some small issue. They can't comprehend the large scale scope of health. And then they say every single day, people come into their office, lobbyists with new studies, new studies saying GMOs are good. New studies saying glyphosate is fine. New studies saying aspartame is fine. New studies saying, recently the USDA, a large-scale study that was brought all around the halls of Congress saying 91% diet of ultra-processed food is perfectly healthy.

The USDA literally just created that study. So these studies are coming again and again, relentlessly. And that contradicts so much other independent research. Exactly. You said you had a big debate on aspartame. I think it's 91% of the studies funded by industry show it's fine, and then 100% of the studies that are truly independent, which is a small portion of the studies, show it's very harmful.

That's been for decades. 100% of the studies that are truly independent, which is a small portion of the studies, show it's very harmful. Correct. That's been for decades. So these members of Congress, to a person, are saying again and again and again, it's just relentless study after study after study. There were 50,000 nutrition studies created in just the past two years, 50,000 peer-reviewed nutrition studies. My opinion is that the vast majority of those studies are nothing more than PR research for processed food.

For sure. You don't need studies saying that organic broccoli or pasture-raised meat, there's not a big lobby for those industries. The only reason these studies are funded, and let's be really clear, Coca-Cola is not out there funding hundreds of millions of dollars to advance unbiased scholarship. They're expecting a return. And the return and the reason the nutrition industry, research industry is so propped up by food is because those companies expect a return. Those studies go directly to Congress. So that's what I'm hearing from members of Congress. They're being bombarded by confusion and then the corruption and then the money comes in. say, if they go against supporting glyphosate, if they go against the USDA recommendations on sugar, if they go against this idea that I think is absolutely existential of steering more healthcare dollars to food instead of drugs once people get sick, then the threats come in. And they say that it's cordial, but the lobbyists come in and say, if you're going to go against this pharmaceutical policies,

we're going to run millions of dollars of ads in your district. Literally, they run ads of the fictitious member of Congress pushing an old person off of a cliff in a wheelchair. So they threaten those ads if they go against the rigged research. So that's the trap. What I think needs to happen, what I'm hearing again and again and again, is this has to be national leadership. I actually do think this is the most important issue to most Americans, that they're getting sicker,

their kids are getting sicker. Life expectancy is going down for the most sustained period since 1860. And I am hopeful people are waking up and there's going to be some national leadership here. Yeah, I think you're right. And people don't understand how insidious this is and how deliberate it is and how it seems like it's cloaked in all these legitimate organizations. Friends of ours talked about this concept of a corporate kleptocracy or corporate capture of agencies or government. I think it's not, and even of medical institutions and academic institutions, of ag institutions like the land-grant colleges, you know,

that are funded by the government, established by Abraham Lincoln in order to actually build up agricultural research, are in large part also funded by the ag industry. And they're pushing huge amounts of chemical agriculture, fertilizer-based agriculture, and it's creating massive destruction in the soil and climate. Now, one of the studies that I want to quote, which is in the Annals of Internal Medicine, this was published in 2017. And Annals of Internal Medicine is a very highly respected, peer-reviewed, legitimate medical journal. And in that journal, there was an article, a review article

called the scientific basis of guideline recommendations on sugar intake, a systematic review. And the conclusion after reviewing quote, all the literature independently, quote unquote, air quotes on sugar was this guidelines on dietary sugar do not meet criteria for trustworthy recommendations and are based on low quality evidence. Meaning if we say don't eat sugar, it's based on crappy evidence. Public health officials, when promulgating these recommendations and their public audience, when considering dietary behavior, should be aware of these limitations. In other words, sugar ain't bad. The study doesn't prove it. And it was funded by something called the ILSI,

which is a, quote, lobby research association. I think it's International Life Sciences Institute. And the major funders are, guess who? Coca-Cola, General Mills, Hershey Foods, Kellogg, Kraft, McDonald's, Monsanto, Nestle, PepsiCo, Procter & Gamble. And the lead author of this study is on the board of Tate and Lyle, which is one of the largest makers of high fructose corn syrup. Now, how can you take a study like that seriously? This is the kind of stuff that we're facing. And it's something that, unfortunately, we're not addressing and we're not talking about. And I think we've seen such widespread co-optation of the public narrative and the scientific narrative and the political narrative

by these companies. And it's really insidious. I mean, Coca-Cola did the same thing. They created this thing called the Global Energy Balance Network. They funded millions and millions of dollars into, quote, research showing that all calories are the same. So if you drink 2,000 calories of Coca-Cola a day or 2,000 calories of broccoli, it's actually identical for your body. Well, any five-year-old knows that this just doesn't make sense even, you know, but that's what they're promoting.

And I think, you know, what, what I would like to sort of talk about is some of the things that we're also also doing to our children, because I think this is an area where, where I'm deeply concerned. You mentioned obesity, but mental health issues are huge. Attention deficit disorder, one in six kids have neurodevelopmental issue, whether it's learning disabilities, ADHD, and we're seeing increasing suicides in kids and increasing use of medication. Now, this is another example I want to get into, which is Ozempic. You know, Ozempic in adults is a big enough problem. And I did a whole podcast on that and really did unpack that in one of my health bites. But what really I didn't

talk about actually was the way in which the American Academy of Pediatrics is now saying we should progressively treat obesity in kids. Agreed. But their recommendations are to treat it with medication. Now they're doing studies in kids as young as six years old taking Ozempic, which has serious consequences. So can you talk about the problem with this and why this is happening and what your thoughts are on it?

So I have a two-year-old and I was recently at a playground with him. And I looked around about 20 kids and every single kid I saw was clearly visibly obese. And rampantly, like almost to a person, that kid was eating something out of a package and many had sugary drinks. Right now, puberty. The New York Times reported puberty is starting dramatically earlier, particularly in America. Seven-year-old girls are growing breasts at an increasing rate. And that's more common now. The New York Times in that headline, the front page headline said, puberty starting early

in America, nobody knows why. We know why our food is compromised. We have kids literally almost strapped to an IV of hormone disrupting chemicals in our water, in our food. We know really clearly what's happening. And you got to ask, why isn't there moral clarity, right? Why isn't there more clarity to say, let's stop that root cause. Clearly, if we're drugging our kids and addicting our kids to highly dopamine enhancing products early on, and we're shoving

hormone disrupted chemicals into their veins again and again and again, and their bodies are rebelling at an early age. Clearly, we need to solve that root cause. So why aren't we? And the answer, the only answer I can really come to is that those kids on that playground are going to be the most profitable people in the world for the largest industry in the country. The healthcare industry is the largest industry and the fastest growing industry in the United States. It is not one evil person,

but the overall structure of that industry is predicated on people getting sicker earlier. I mean, that's the problem. We privatize the profits and socialize the costs, and these companies are not amoral, they're amoral, right? And they basically are doing things to maximize profit at the expense of health and expense of the environment. And this is really what terrifies me. I think we have an opportunity to really change this, but it's not going to be simple. And I think when we're talking about giving drugs to kids like Ozempic as young as six years old, and now it's approved for 12 to 19 year olds. I mean, this is, it might be criminal. I mean, we're not addressing the root cause.

It's like, instead of saying, why are we all so sick and fat? Why are our kids so depressed? And why are we needing all these things to actually support their health, like drugs? How do we fix that? Well, here's why it's criminal. If you have a dirty fish tank, you clean the tank. You don't drug the fish. What we're saying is we need to drug the fish and not even touch the tank. That's a beautiful analogy. It's criminal because that kid, right? It's not just so simple. So let's just think about

the median teenager in this country who is overweight or obese and on the verge of prediabetes or has prediabetes, that kid is almost certainly going to have attention deficit disorder, be put on Adderall and methamphetamine, which 20% of high school seniors are on. SSRI prescriptions, they're much more likely to be depressed with metabolic dysfunction. 40% of high school seniors qualify as having mental health disorder. You talk to any parent now, SSRIs are being prescribed widely in high school. So that kid is going to be on an antidepressant. Statin use among teens is going way up. Metformin use because of the skyrocketing prediabetes.

High blood pressure. That kid, that four-year-old who's eating highly processed food, unless they change their behavior, they're going to be on a chronic disease treadmill for the rest of their life and just cascading these interventions. Ozempic argument is this idea that obesity is genetic, that obesity is this disease you can't really control, that it's a thing that you need to manage for the rest of your life. A six-year-old put on Ozempic, the instructions for the drug is that they need to take that injection for the rest of their lives. And you actually, again, have doctors on 60 Minutes saying, don't worry, throw willpower out the window. You can manage this with a drug. The criminal part for our country is that that kid is going to have a more tortured, churder life. If that kid is ingesting hormone-disrupting, toxic,

inflammatory food and not learning how to exercise, not learning how to eat healthy, they're going to live a less optimal life. They're going to live a more depressed life. If you put the link to mental health, if you put any animal in a box with limited sun, sedentary, force feeding them ultra processed food, they're going to exhibit mental health problems. If you put a dog in a little sunless box, as we do to kids, by the way, at schools, not moving. As you mentioned, 80% of 21-year-olds aren't even eligible to join the military because they're so sedentary.

Admiral Mike Mullen, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who's great enough to write a book for our book, has said this is one of the biggest national security threats in the country. And- It was 700 retired admirals and generals created a report called Mission Readiness. And it was shocking in there for me to read

that there were 72% more evacuations from Iraq and Afghanistan for obesity-related problems in soldiers than from war injuries. We're spending more- That's shocking to me. We're spending more as a government on diabetes management and related costs than the

entire defense department. The biggest line item for the defense department right now is healthcare largely tied to metabolic conditions. So we have this clear problem and what's criminal is that the way you grow that system is to get kids on that treadmill. There's nothing more disruptive to the healthcare system than a child learning metabolically healthy habits. And what do you have? You have the media that's funded by pharma, not investigating why prediabetes and obesity is skyrocketing among kids, but actually saying it's anti-science to question a pharmaceutical protocol.

They're actually saying it's fringe and anti-science to talk too much about nutrition, to talk too much about meditation, to talk too much about exercise. That's actually refereed as fringe by the media. Well, it's interesting though, because if you look at the guidelines from most professional societies, like the American Heart Association,

American Diabetes Association, National Heart, Lung, and Blood Association, the first step of therapy for any of these cardiometabolic diseases, whether it's heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, is diet and lifestyle. It's the first thing that's recommended, yet it's not fringe. It's actually part of the essential guidelines. And, you know, I want to get into sort of how to fix this in a minute, but I just want

to dive deeper into how corrupt this whole system is that you're really so good at articulating. There was a sort of investigative reports that use FOIA, which is Freedom of Information Act, to get emails and direct correspondence from food industry companies like Coca-Cola, for example. And they were really so egregious in their behavior and it was so clear that they had a coordinated strategy. And this review in Critical Public Health called How Food Companies Influence Evidence and Opinions Straight from the Horse's Mouth. They said, the results provide direct evidence that senior leaders in the food industry advocate for a deliberate and coordinated approach to influence scientific evidence and expert opinion. The paper reveals industry strategies to use external organizations, including scientific bodies and medical associations, right? I think the American College of Cardiology has 192 million, or the American Heart Association has 192 million dollars in funding from food and pharma a year.

They influence scientific bodies, medical associations as tools to overcome the global scientific and regulatory challenges they face. Challenges of what? Not selling their shitty food. The evidence highlights the deliberate approach used by the food industry to influence public policy and opinion in their favor. And that is really the crux of this whole thing. And so the question is, you know, if we're battling, you know, billions of dollars of, literally billions of dollars of money that's spent on either influencing public opinion through accordion campaigns, through media, through co-opting the advertising on television and other channels, through lobbying, through these front groups, through corporate social responsibility, the co-op social groups, through co-opting nutrition research, I mean, co-opting universities and medical experts. You know, how do we battle that? Where do we start?

And I, you know, I want to hear what you're doing because I think it's, it's really important to, to look at not just the problem. I think I've defined the problem well in food fix. I think we need to talk about the fix part as opposed to the food. I didn't call the book food apocalypse. I called it food fix. We're kind of in a food apocalypse, but I think we need to think about the fixing part. Well, let's dive into solutions. I want to be really clear because it's bottoms up and top down, but I want to be clear. I think we'll dive into some top down. There's a big bottoms up empowerment message here. And my message here from being inside the room with these industries

is that it's worse than you think. And these people are not smarter than you. They're not impressive. They are rigging the system and we're buying into it. We're still buying into it when there's a Harvard peer reviewed study. We're still letting these studies convince us that glyphosate, essentially a neurotoxin that's banned in most of the rest of the world is fine to give to our kids. We're letting them convince us of this. And my message from the bottoms up is trust yourself, is that the system has completely let us down on managing and preventing chronic conditions. And we need to take much more responsibility for our health and our kids'

health there. And frankly, listen to the experts, but not give them the benefit of the doubt. And that humans and animals we've domesticated are the only animals that have systematic metabolic dysfunction. Like animals in the wild, there's cats and dogs, but there's not many obese wolves. The obesity rate among dogs is over 50%. By all measures, the depression rate is actually off the charts among dogs. It's like over 50%. There's not a lot of obese, depressed wolves in the wild. There's not obese giraffes. There's not obese tigers, right? Every single animal in the world. I did see some pretty fat hippos when I went to. Well, so technically by their measure, everyone brings that up. Technically they're not obese.

They're made to have some extra fat. So you don't, you just, every animal is born, including humans with an innate sense of what's right for them. And they gravitate to natural food. They gravitate to sunlight. They gravitate to movement. We, the experts, are beating that out of humans. And we rob our domesticated animals of that. So I really do think there's a spiritual crisis, a bottoms-up situation, where we need to get

back to understanding where our food comes from and trusting ourselves and giving a little less credence to the experts. The average American consumes about 133 pounds of flour every year. Now, it used to be 146.8 pounds in 1995, but 133 pounds from the USDA data is a lot of flour. And by the way, that's about a third of a pound per person per day. Some of us have a lot more. And that's going to include all the other grains and all the other potatoes and all the starches and sugars, which is about 152 pounds a year. So I wrote a book called Food, What the Heck Should I Eat? Because people are so confused about what to eat. And even me, I get confused because research is all over the place.

And I talk about in the book, Food, What the Heck Should I Eat? That whole grains can be a good source of vitamins, minerals, fiber. And it's okay to eat them. But I talk about what and how and why, right? Now, they taste pretty good. But the toxic amounts we eat, the pharmacologic doses we eat are huge drivers of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, dementia. And most of the grains we eat are not like whole grains, right? They're not like, we're not eating wheat berries. We're eating white flour predominantly, and even whole wheat flour.

The way we mill it and grind it, it's just so fine. Essentially, it's like white flour, maybe a little bit better, has a few extra vitamins, a few extra minerals, a little extra fiber. But essentially, its effect on your blood sugar is bad. In fact, the glycemic index of whole wheat flour is higher than table sugar, meaning it raises your blood sugar more than table sugar. If you look at most things that have whole wheat in them, you've got to read all the ingredients. It's not just the whole wheat.

They can put whole wheat, but it can be filled with sugar and all kinds of stuff. So we're going to talk about why grains are such a controversial food, how to look at the pros and cons of whether or not they should be in your diet and which grains are actually probably okay to eat. So first thing you should know is this, and this is really important. There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. There are essential fatty acids, right? the omega-3s, and there are essential amino acids, which we need large doses from protein. But there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. Even the National Academy of Sciences Dietary Reference Index says there's no biological requirement for carbohydrates. Now, that's not to say they're not

okay to eat, they're not good for us. I mean, vegetables are carbohydrates. Broccoli is carbohydrate. There's carbohydrates in nuts. It's not that they're bad, but it depends on the type of carbohydrate. So first of all, there's a myth that we have to eat grains to be healthy. We do not. We do not need to eat them. Now, you can eat them, and we'll talk about how and why. But basically, don't buy the propaganda that we need them. In fact, for most of human history, we haven't had grains.

Until the agricultural revolution 10,000 years ago, 12,000 years ago, we never had any grains or any beans. We basically were hunters and gatherers. Our bodies work very well without them. And yes, there are plenty of vitamins, minerals, fiber, or nutrients in whole grains. But you can get all that from other sources, including vegetables, fruits, seeds, nuts, and other foods that don't have the same baggage as grains. Now, there are some cases where, you know,

patients and people can eat grains and be healthy, but I'm going to talk about how to be very careful about it. Particularly people who do not do well with them are people who have insulin resistance, prediabetes, type 2 diabetes, people who are overweight, obese. Now, how many people is that? Well, one in two Americans is pre-diabetes or diabetes, 75% overweight, 93% are metabolic and healthy. So maybe 6% of the population can tolerate them and not get into trouble. I mean, that's not too good. So I think we'd be very smart about what we're doing. And after you talk about what kind of grains, how we're eating them, and how different grains affect us differently. Now, in terms of whole grains, that's just a bunch of BS, right?

If you look at the marketing propaganda from the food industry, it's talking about whole grain flours. We think it's healthy. It's just a bunch of nonsense. For example, I want you to read labels carefully so you can tell whether what you're buying is actually truly healthy or not, or just marketing hype. For example, you can get a whole grain cookie crisp cereal. Sounds great. Whole grain cookie crisp cereal. Well, the cookie crisp doesn't sound healthy, but it's got 22 grams of sugar, right? How much is that? That's five teaspoons, five and a half teaspoons of sugar in your serving of

cereal that you give your kid in the morning not a healthy right not a healthy just because they put a few flakes of whole grain flour doesn't make it healthy right also understand your body below the neck your body can't tell the difference between a bowl of cornflakes and a bowl of sugar. Sugar and flour are the same in the body. I mean, actually, flour might be a little worse because it has only glucose, whereas sugar has fructose and glucose, which are different metabolism, but they're both bad. You know, basically eating two slices of whole wheat bread can raise your blood sugar more than having two tablespoons of table sugar. Think about that. So whenever you eat something containing whole wheat flour, you might as well be mainlining sugar unless certain caveats are taken into consideration, which we'll talk about

in a minute. So also you're not eating the same grains that we used to eat, right? We're not eating ancient grains, heirloom grains. We're eating these new hybrids that are developed. For example, like dwarf wheat. Dwarf wheat was a very important innovation in agriculture, led to the Nobel Prize being awarded to the scientists who were able to hybridize, not GMO, but hybridize wheat so that it was short and stubby, not tall tall and thin and it produced much more starch and much more drought resistant much more resilient and could help you know feed the world which all sounds great except for one thing there's a starch that's produced there called ambolepectin a which

is a super starch it's the worst and it's basically the wheat we're eating today not only that they spray with glyphosate often at the end to desiccate it so it's easier to harvest. And basically just bad news. And the new hybrids have higher amounts of gluten in them and more likely to cause autoimmune disease. So basically, we want to be very careful. Now, heirloom strains like zea wheat, like I was talking about, might be okay, or antworm wheat, or other types of whole grains like farro, which have gluten, might be okay. But there are more ancient grains that people are not consuming. And by the way, they're not even, I said, whole wheat berries, right? I used to make, you know, wheat berry something.

Like we'd have wheat berries in salad. We'd cook them up and do that. But that's not that common, right? So we have so much flour. It's mostly dwarf wheat. It's mostly sprayed with glyphosate. It's super high glycemic index, high gluten antibodies. Definitely not helpful.

Definitely not helpful and definitely not something you should be consuming. Even healthy grains may be problems. Like if you overconsume grains that are, quote, healthy grains, even if it's like amaranth or brown rice right when they turn into flour they're basically pulverizing it and the surface area is much higher and it's quickly absorbed and it spikes your blood sugar so even if it sounds like oh i'm having brown rice bread or something it's actually maybe even worse so make sure you're you're really smart about what you're reading look at the label very carefully and look at the where the the the food is on the label if it's a by the way i i think most people should need food with labels

i mean it basically you know as a can it has sardines and olive oil salt fine but if it's you know has 45 ingredients you should just not even put it back um what about oatmeal oatmeal Oatmeal. Oatmeal is like a health food, right? Me, not really. No. It's, you know, it actually raises your blood sugar. And most of the oatmeal we eat is actually pretty refined oatmeal. It's not steel-cut oats. It's not whole oats. Those might be a little bit better. But when you eat oatmeal, it basically spikes your sugar. In one study, they looked at kids who had oatmeal, eggs, or silk oats,

basically same calorie, right, same calorie. And the kids were a little overweight. They basically said, okay, if you're hungry, just tell us and we'll give you food. And when they looked and they put a catheter in their vein and basically tried their blood every hour and the kids who ate oatmeal had 81% more food in the day because they were hungrier. And their blood sugar spiked more, their insulin spiked more, they had more adrenaline, more cortisol, more stress hormones. So basically eating oatmeal is stressful for the body and led to all these things that cause weight gain. So I'm not a big fan of starting

the day with oatmeal. Now, it depends if you have whole oats and you put nuts in there and fat and other things, it slows the absorption, it might be okay. But just your quicker oats, definitely not. Now, what about gluten? Now, you all heard about gluten-free, gluten's bad for you and it's not. And generally, it's pretty new in the human diet, especially the dwarf wheat, which I mentioned, which has much more gliadin proteins that are much more inflammatory. Now, some people are fine. If you're healthy, if you don't have a leaky gut, not everybody's sensitive. About a third of the population has the gene for celiac. About 1% of the population has celiac.

And by the way, there's been about a 400% true increase in celiac disease in 50 years, right? Because of the damage we've done to our gut. And part of that damage is from the new wheat and the gluten and the antibiotics and things. But basically, we have a society that is now rampant with gluten sensitivity, which probably affects up to 20% of the population, whereas true celiac is about 1%. But your body really doesn't know what to do with gluten, right? And celiac disease is an autoimmune disease, and it can cause over 50, maybe 100

different diseases like type 1 diabetes, like rheumatoid arthritis, like osteoporosis, like colitis, like iron deficiency, anemia. I mean, the list goes on because of how it affects your gut. Now, a lot of us, like I said, have this non-celiac gluten sensitivity, and basically, our body starts to react, creating inflammation, and so we don't want that. And sometimes, we're doing a trial of a gluten elimination diet, basically, to see how your body does. Do it for three weeks, see what happens, add gluten back, see what happens. You might be fine. For example, I don't have a reaction to gluten. I do to dairy, but I don't have a reaction to gluten. I've checked, I don't have any bodies. My gut was okay. So basically, I can eat gluten, but I don't eat

that much of it because it's mostly flour, right? I don't eat the wheat berries. But there are other grains. Now, one of the problems is that Dr. Alessio Fasano at Harvard, the world expert in celiac and gluten, basically talks about everybody with gluten has some little damage to their gut because gluten increases something called zonulin. Zonulin is a protein that produces in our bodies, which actually causes damage to our gut lining, creates a leaky gut, little tight junctions, which are like Legos that are tucked together, come apart. It's only one cell thick between you and a sewer. And then you end up flooding your body with all these foreign proteins and antibodies. I mean, foreign proteins and antigens and also bacterial toxins and proteins that are really quite bad. And so basically 60 to 70% of our immune system is

right under our gut. A lot of our inflammatory diseases are caused by gut. I mean, I was reading about insomnia recently that there's been a big correlation between dysbiosis and bounces in the gut flora, leaky gut, and sleep disorders. So even sleep, for example, may be a factor. Now, when we have these leaky gut food particles, antigens, microbes leak through our protective lining, they activate our gut immune system, and that creates systemic inflammation, obesity, heart disease, cancer, dementia, diabetes, but also obviously allergies, skin disorders, asthma, and autoimmune diseases. So I think everybody with gluten has some degree of leaky gut, but some people can manage it and tolerate it, other people can't. And so I think we have to really take stock of the fact that

gluten and celiac is a real problem. And if you don't look for it, you don't find it. I started a company called, I co-founded a company called functionhealth.com where we do full celiac testing. Often your doctor won't order it and they won't do the right one. So you can go to functionhealth.com and learn more. So now gluten-free, by the way, isn't necessarily healthy either.

Gluten-free cake and cookies is still cake and cookies, right? So remember, you know, you had fat-free yogurt. Well, fat-free yogurt, your Yoplait fat-free yogurt has more sugar per ounce than a can of soda, right? It doesn't make it healthy, right? Remember what we call snack well cookies, right? Fat-free but full of sugar doesn't mean they're healthy.

So just because it says gluten-free doesn't mean it's healthy. I saw a package of potato chips the other day that had gluten-free on the cover, right? Coca-Cola is gluten-free. Doesn't mean it's healthy. So the word gluten-free doesn't mean anything. It just means that the gluten's not there and that's fine if you're celiac, but it doesn't mean it's a health food. And usually it's replaced with something more harmful in terms of maybe other refined grains that are more glycemic in nature, the additives from the sugar, high glycemic flours, refined oils. So just remember, gluten-free cookies sell a cookie. And by the way, not all grains are bad in food. I talked about the ones that I'm concerned about like oatmeal corn wheat um and yes gluten is a real issue for people um other forms of grains are not so

problematic right so for example quinoa is a south american grain that's very very healthful that actually has a lot of protein in it has amino acids in it it's problematic because we're taking the food from the indigenous people in south America, which is their staple, and now they can't even afford it. So that's a whole other problem. Even other grains, for example, like Himalayan tartary buckwheat, which is from the Himalayas, super dense in nutrients, 132 phytochemicals, lots of protein, lots of fiber, lots of magnesium, lots of minerals. That can be fine. So I was going to make pancakes from Himalayan buckwheat flour. But we don't want to eat all the traditional grains we're eating that are in Twinkies and cookies, pizza. Not good.

So also, you know, you can start to make other things. Like, you know, I make the buckwheat pancakes, which are actually quite good. You can make buckwheat bread. And by the way, buckwheat's not even a grain, so it's a flour. What about the bread? Do we have to give up bread? Well, no, not necessarily. There's lots of bread made with whole kernel grains, not just the flour or no flour. You can make it with nuts and seeds. Rye bread, rye can be healthy. That's gluten for many people, but it can be problematic, but actually is super helpful in many ways.

And in Germany, I went to visit a friend once, and they had a meat slicer in their house. And I'm like, what's that for? Like, you know, what they have in a deli to slice the, you know, whatever, the meats. And they're like, oh, that's to cut our bread. I'm like, what do you mean? Yeah, we can't cut it with a knife. It's too dense.

So literally this fresh bread comes out. And basically my rule for bread is if you can stand on it and it doesn't squish. You can probably eat it. So basically, if it's made from whole kernels and it's made from nuts and seeds, other types of flours, it can be actually fine. I have recipes in my book, Food, What the Heck Should I Cook for non-flour breads and they can be quite delicious. And how often should you eat whole grains? And by the way, when you're eating gains, only whole grains, right? Get away from flours, whole grains. So brown rice, quinoa, black rice,

you know, stay away from flours, but eat whole grains, right? Brown rice, black rice, red rice, quinoa, other grains can be fine. Farro, barley, if you want, if you're not gluten sensitive. And even, you know, Himalayan Thai buckwheat, it's not something you eat as a whole grain, but that, that flour is okay because it doesn't have a high glycemic load and you mix it with eggs and other things that can be great. So you shouldn't be eating a lot. Uh, particularly if you're a diabetic, pre-diabetic and some resistant, overweight, you probably want to cut them out for a while until you're healthy and then you can add them back.

Probably, you know, half a cup a day is fine. Um, i think that's okay if it's whole grain probably once a day so what are the things that i talked about and it can be again not the main dish right you know in some countries they eat a lot of grains right in china oh they eat rice and they're thin or you know in india they rather right well you know i just you know came back from nepal and you know they they were eating a lot of rice, white rice. But these guys were literally carrying 70, 80 pounds on their back up and down the Himalayan mountains all day long. So they needed the energy. But if you're not doing that, I would stick away from a lot of grains. Buckwheat, the Himalayan buckwheat is my favorite.

You can go to bigbolthelp.com and learn more about that. Whole kernel rye if you're not gluten sensitive. Quinoa. Also, it's not a grain. It and learn more about that. Whole kernel rye, if you're not gluten sensitive. Quinoa. Also, it's not a grain. It's actually a pseudo grain. Black rice, red rice, sorghum, teff, millet, amaranth, all can be great. What about white rice? White rice is something, you know, a lot of cultures eat.

Now, white rice doesn't always have to be bad. There's research that's been done on white rice that if you cool it and then you reheat it, not too hot, but just if you basically cook it in potatoes and then put it in the fridge, let it get cold, and then kind of reheat it gently, it actually causes something to be produced called resistant starch, which helps resist the digestion of it. It's lower glycemic. It actually can help with your microbiome.

It's great for as a prebiotic and maybe even improve metabolism. So you can use that. So what grains should I avoid if I might be gluten sensitive? Well, all the gluten containing grains, wheat, barley, rye, spelt, camomile, farro, bulgur, oats, semolina, couscous, any refined grains, all these you want to avoid. And I think, you know, grains can be part of a healthful diet, but only if you're metabolically healthy and only feeding the right grains and only if they're whole grains. So in general, we need to recognize grains for what they are. They're a recreational treat, not a staple.

An occasional indulgence, fine. Not an everyday thing for me. I'm not a fan of most grains. It's fine to include small amounts of your diet, but only if they're whole grains, only if they're organic, only if they're gluten-free. By the way, if you're not gluten-sensitive, you might be able to tolerate a little bit healthier gluten grains, but for most people, they're problematic. And if you're wondering who should not be eating them, well, if you have type 2 diabetes or high blood sugar, prediabetes, if you have weight issues, cravings, if you have food sensitivities, digestive issues, autoimmune diseases, if you're bloated after you eat, our blood tests show you have high levels of inflammation markers, probably not great to eat

a lot of grains at all. Like you said, obesogens are toxins. And obesogens, as you can tell from the name, it has to do with fat and obesity. And so the real landmark thing that's kind of happened recently is we realized that obesogens are specific metabolism disrupting chemicals in the environment, but it directly increased fat mass. So this is not a correlation, this is causation. And there was this great paper that came out earlier this year. It was 49 pages. It was a tome. And Dr. Rob Lustig was one of the authors. And it was called Obesity 2. And it was all about obesogens. And it concluded that these chemicals we now know directly increase fat mass through about a dozen different mechanisms. And it is thought that potentially 15% of obesity is directly attributable to these chemical exposures. So where are they from?

They are basically all around us. They are in the air we breathe. They are in the food we eat. They are on the food we eat. They are in our cosmetics and our personal care products, our home care products. They're in our furniture, our electronics, papers. They are all over the place. And actually, a few come from natural origins like lead and cadmium. And you mentioned mercury, but most are industrially manufactured chemicals that are largely unregulated. And so some of the specific examples of where you can find these. So mercury is natural, but it doesn't mean it's healthy, right? Lead and mercury are not exactly healthy. And there are there is that handful of natural obesogens like the mercury and the cadmium and the lead that can increase fat mass. But you know,

you want to be conscious of how much of this you're consuming. But the vast majority of these are coming out of factories, coming out of companies that have huge lobbying power and that are putting these in everything. And so this is things like can linings, thermal papers, printer toner, vinyl floorings. They are in basically all plastics, even if the plastic is BPA free. They're found in our personal care products, especially shampoos, conditioners, lotions, deodorants, sunscreens, makeups, food preservatives, food colorings. They're actually in drugs. Antidepressants have been known to have obesogenic properties. They're in car exhaust, so it gets in our air,

paint that goes on our walls, our clothing. They're in flame retardants on children's toys, on mattresses, on couches, a lot of different home care products like disinfectants. And then, of course, one that is on everything, which is agricultural pesticides. So all of these things that I just mentioned have been shown to have mechanistic properties that increase fat, basically the printing of fat in our bodies. So this is kind of fascinating. And the mechanisms are, it's not just one thing, they really all work together synergistically to cause metabolic problems. And some of the big ones touch on one you were talking about earlier today, which is microbiome. So these chemicals can directly impact our microbiome, the diversity and function of the microbiome. These chemicals can alter the hormonal control of eating behavior.

So actually affecting our satiety hormones and our hunger hormones. They affect thyroid function, which is directly linked to metabolism. They impact sirtuin genes, which are, of course, as Dr. Sinclair has popularized, these are very important for our longevity. They change the folding of our genome. So actually our epigenetics and the way genes are expressed, they can directly cause gene mutations, they cause inflammation, and then they can really affect our hormone receptors. So this is a big one. They can either be activators of hormone receptors or blockers of hormone receptors. And of course, hormones are so, so critical. That's nuanced balance of our of our health and our day to day functioning. And these chemicals can literally go in and block or

activate those receptors. One frightening thing I'll just mention is that they not only affect all these things in our bodies, but they also do it to our sex cells. So our germ cells, like our sperm and eggs, which means that the impact of these chemicals that are all over our environment can affect our offspring through germ cell, which is essentially our, our, our sperm or eggs epigenetics and DNA. So we really need to all be familiar with the term obesogen, understand where they come from and understand how to advocate both for ourselves and on a systems level to minimize the exposure that we're getting to these in our environment. And many of them last for generations. So yeah.

Like you were saying, yeah. I mean, just thinking about how, for example, leptin is, you know, you get leptin resistance with increased environmental toxins you get, which makes you feel like you're hungry all the time and you get effects on your mitochondria, which helps affect your metabolism and how fast your metabolism works. So there's so many different mechanisms that are underlying this. And I think we're now beginning to understand this. And we also see how they trigger inflammation. So any toxins, they're also immunotoxins. So they increase this process of making more inflammatory cytokines through this mechanism called NF-kappa-B. And you get high levels of these cytokines like TNF-alpha,

interleukin-6. It's so central to everything. So this sort of inflammation from any cause will cause weight gain and obesity. And then here's the problem, it's even worse when people start to lose weight. Guess where all the toxins are stored, they're stored in our fat tissue. So when you start to liberate fat tissue, you start to liberate more toxins. And actually there's a phenomenon of resistance to weight loss as you're, as you're losing weight, you're going to actually stop losing weight because the toxins interfere with the very process of weight loss. They affect your thyroid function and many other things. So it's a little bit of a mess. So you have to really help people detoxify properly and learn how to get their systems working. And that's, that's kind of,

uh, what's so great about functional medicine. And I, you know, I wrote an article on gospel. I don't know when it was, it was probably forever ago. Uh, it was, it was, it was called systems biology, um, systems biology, toxins, obesity, and functional medicine. And it was, it was, it was called systems, biology, systems, biology, toxins, obesity, and functional medicine. And it was, I think, gosh, in the probably early two thousands. And it was really just looking back then at the data that we had on this. And now, like you said, there's so much more data and we're so exposed to, to toxins and they're really pretty much everywhere.

So it's, it's a, it's a little discouraging for people. Cause like, what do you do? How do you start to think about this? You have these toxins. So, uh, people listening are, okay, well, gosh, we live in a sea of toxins. This is pretty depressing. I, what do I do? Like, how do we avoid them?

How do we get them out? What do we do to help address this sort of phenomenon of obesogens in our environment? This is the key question. And I think, you know, I think it's a battle that's going to be fought on many different axes. And I say battle because it really is an uphill battle against industry that uses these chemicals and wants them in a lot of different things. And, you know, of course, aren't necessarily top priority is not necessarily our health. So I think there's, I think there's really four main axes that we're going to need to approach this on. And one is on the systems level. One is on

the individual choice level. So we can, of course, advocate through our vote and our dollar about what happens at the systems level. But then, of course, day to day, we also just have to choose like what we're putting in on and around our body. Then the second, the other two axes really is focusing on personal avoidance, but also improving biologic resilience. So how do we actually build a body that processes these chemicals effectively detoxifies them gets them out and is healthy enough at baseline that we can manage this additional stress, which unfortunately is almost inevitable. So I think just briefly touching on that systems level, which you know, you have written about in such detail, and I, you know,

food fix gets into this a lot. And so I'll just, you know, very, very briefly touch on this one, you know, I think it's, it's a crazy statistic, but our rate of global chemical production is increasing at a rate of almost 4% a year and will probably double by 2030. And since just the year 2000, deaths from just ambient air pollution linked to fossil fuels and chemical pollution has risen by almost 70%. And very little regulation has come from this. We have a law that's meant to protect us, which is called the Toxic Substances Control Act, but which came out in the 1970s, but has really been poorly, poorly implemented. And we see things happening all the time where strong

science comes out. Like recently, the EPA put forward a proposal to get rid of a chemical called trichloroethylene, which is used in dry cleaning and removing grease from different things like clothing or car parts or bikes or things like that. And the proposal to ban this was strongly supported by science and was just completely, basically rejected and withdrawn because of strong complaints and lobbying from the chemical industry. So the systems level, we can think about using our dollar and advocating for legislation that helps, but really, it comes down to, you know, acutely what we're doing on a day to day basis. So there's definitely some easy, practical tips that we can do to kind of help ourselves. I think the first one is eat real,

clean, sustainable, sustainably grown food, you know, this is the basic building block of the body for improving biologic resilience. And if you're eating whole foods that are grown in a clean, sustainable way, you're getting a lot of the way there, it means that you're getting the micronutrients that are going to help your body process these chemicals, it means that you're getting the, the different plant chemicals that are going to upregulate our antioxidant defenses and our anti inflammatory pathways, it means that we're going to be avoiding pesticide exposure, which is an obesogen. It means that we're not buying things that come in plastic. So just by eating fresh, whole, clean, sustainably grown food, you're hitting a lot of the different boxes with the obesogen problem. Within whole foods, there are some that are extra special.

So of course, cruciferous vegetables, which are going to have the sulforaphane that activates our antioxidant defense system. So this is the cauliflower, broccoli, kale, bok choy, cabbage, sauerkraut, these things that are directly going to change gene expression to protect us from some of these obesogenic chemicals. Then of course, it's like what's your food stored in. So we want to avoid plastic storage as much as we can and really try and opt for glass and other materials. And now it's so easy to find this stuff. You can go on Amazon, you get glass tupperware, glass water bottles,

aluminum or ceramic, things like this. And again, it's not just about BPA. I think that's a little bit of a we often now look for BPA free plastics, but plastics contain as many as 15 endocrine disrupting chemicals. So BPA is just one and it's great that doesn't have that. But there's other things like BPF and DPS and these other chemicals that we know are endocrine disruptors. So be the weirdo who brings, you know, the bamboo fork and knife in your purse to the takeout restaurant. Get, you know, be the person who knife in your purse to the takeout restaurant, get, you know, be the person who always has the glass water bottle and who has the brings your own storage containers, because these things actually do add up and make a difference. The next category that

is really important, be the weirdo, be the weirdo. I mean, I, you know, and, and, and, you know, give these things as gifts. I, I have a running Google doc of gift ideas. And a lot of them are becoming basically these types of things like give people the portable, reusable wood cutlery, you know, and things like this that they might not think about, but that can really help their health. I am someone who loves personal care products. I love cosmetics and you know, all this stuff. And so this one has been really important to me figuring out how to basically reduce the toxin, toxins and toxic load of all these products I'm using. And so I think this is a really low hanging fruit. So basically, look at your bathroom, look at your shampoos,

conditioners, lotions, makeup, deodorant, toothpaste, and probably throw out most of what's in there and look for the brands that have very few ingredients that are ingredients that you recognize and know and that are approved ideally by the environmental working group website, which has a basically a registry of all personal care products. And you can just walk through the store and search things on your phone and find out what is least likely to be toxic. So I've really moved away from a lot of the complex products to things like for moisturizer, like you can use organic coconut oil or jojoba oil. You can use castile soap like Dr. Bronner's for dish soap, for hand

soap, for body soap. You can use vinegar and water for disinfecting sprays for your countertops. It's actually, once you get on this train, it's quite easy. And there's so many great brands these days. It's not that hard. Yeah, it's super important. And then of course you need to give your body the things to detoxify, right?

Right. And actually supplements can be helpful in that regard. Whole food, of course, is the foundation, but supplements like vitamin C, curcumin, probiotics, resveratrol, vitamin E, these have all been shown to have basically resilience boosting effects on our ability to process toxic chemicals. And I think the last one I would mention, I mean, we could go on and on forever about how to avoid these. But I think another important one is air filtration,

because air pollution is, is such under-recognized contributor of chronic disease. And so getting a really high quality air filtration system actually has been studied and has been shown to have a clinical effect on mitigating the effects of toxic air pollution. So really personal care products, whole foods, making sure you're including cruciferous vegetables and anti-inflammatory foods, avoiding plastics, and getting your air under control and maybe supplementing with some high yield supplements. Those are definitely some of the things that we can do that are pretty simple to avoid the impact, the mega impact of these chemicals. Thanks for listening today. If you love this podcast, please share it with your friends and family. Leave a comment on your own best practices on how you upgrade your

health and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And follow me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman. And we'll see you next time on The Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm always getting questions about my favorite books, podcasts, gadgets, supplements, recipes, and lots more. And now you can have access to all of this information by signing up for my free MarksPix newsletter at drhyman.com forward slash MarksPix. I promise I'll only email you once a week on Fridays and I'll never share your email address or send you anything else besides my recommendations. These are the things that have helped me on my health journey and I hope they'll help you too. Again, that's drhyman.com forward slash MarksPix. Thank you, and we'll see you next time on The Doctor's Pharmacy.

This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness Center and my work at Cleveland Clinic and Function Health, where I'm the chief medical officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests' opinions, and neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. Now, if you're looking for your help in your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner. You can come see us at the Ultra Wellness Center in Lenox, Massachusetts.

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