The Dr. John Delony Show - A Young Widow Walks Through the Grieving Process

Episode Date: May 12, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode   A Young Widow Walks Through the Grieving Process   As heard on this episode: BetterHelp   tags: grief, marriage, substance abuse, suicide/self-harm, trauma/PTSD, relationships   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.`

On today's show, we take a deep dive into a single call from an extraordinary young woman who met her husband, got married, and tragically lost him all in the space of a few years. On today's show, she tells her story, the things she's experiencing, and the things she hopes to do to make meaning of his loss in his memory. Stay tuned. Yo, yo, this is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I hope you are doing well. Thank you so much for joining us. We're so glad you're here. I almost just said, what the?

Because I was feeling like I was 11 again. James made that joke earlier. Wasn't funny, but I think it was hilarious. And so now I'm going to make it all the time. Because I like bringing up old commercials from middle school that have absolutely no relevance here 20 years later. But I think they're still funny. Hey, listen. On today's show, we're going to talk about mental health, relationship.

We're going to talk about everything. Addiction, all of it. And if you want to be on the show, I'd going to talk about mental health, relationship. We're going to talk about everything, addiction, all of it. And if you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you. I'd love to have you. So give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash show. Fill out the form.

It goes to Kelly. I'd love to have you on the show. We've got bajillions of people calling in, writing in from all over the world, and I love it. I'm so grateful that you are here. All right. Listen, this for real happened last night. 100% of what I'm saying is true. It happened exactly as I'm about to explain it to you. And I thought, oh gosh, I can't believe she said that. So I was with my daughter and we were with somebody who has a very, very large belly. And we were just going about our evening and while we were out and I heard my daughter behind me, you know, they just say those things and you go, please tell me that this isn't happening. It was happening.

And here's what my daughter asked that person with a large belly. Hey, why do you have a big tummy? To which I froze, my heart stopped beating. And as I started to turn around, my daughter expounded on her question. She said, why do you have a big tummy? Is it because you always eat all of your dinner and you never poop? My daughter expounded on her question. She said, why do you have a big tummy? Is it because you always eat all of your dinner and you never poop? It was pretty awesome.

And I didn't hear the answer because I quickly dug a hole and I buried myself. So I wouldn't have to know what was going on with my child. And I just was assuming that person would take my child away and I would never see them. And I would think, A, fair response, and B, the last thing I ever heard was my daughter trying to do the math on the human body and coming up with a plausible explanation in her heart and mind. And the person who heard that question responded really gracefully and was actually pretty funny about it. And we've had to have some conversations about how bodies work, how poop works, how food works, all of it. And how kindness works.

The thing about kindness with a kid, though, is she wasn't being unkind. She was genuinely curious. Why are your legs long? Why is your tummy humongous? I know. It's because you eat all of your dinner and it just backs up there for a week after week, year after year and ta-da. So anyway, I want you to know we are educating the youth on how the body works and gotta love five-year-olds in, oh geez, Louise, we just gotta stop talking. All right alright so let's take our first call here let's go to Laura in Denver, Colorado

Laura what's going on? Hey Dr. John how are you? I am plugging along man trying to figure out how to parent a 5 year old how about you? I'm doing alright thanks very cool alright so for the folks who are listening

I got word about you, Laura, from a Facebook post you put up some time ago. And it mentioned us, it mentioned Dave, it mentioned several folks here in our little ecosystem here at Ramsey Solutions. And somebody forwarded it to me just to say, hey, just wanted you to know that this was out there, and I thought, man, I would love to talk to Laura just to let you tell your story. So number one, thanks for putting the post up, but tell folks what's been going on in your life. Everything got dumped upside down the last few months,

so talk to us about what's been going on. Sure. So, um, so, um, oh man, it's like a brick wall. Yeah. Jordan was a huge fan of yours. And some days when he'd listen to your new show, I would mess with him because he'd put on his noise-canceling headphones. And right when he put them on, I'd start talking to him. And so he passed away three weeks ago today. Three weeks ago, huh? How old was he? 31.

Hey, hold on. Can I just tell you I'm so sorry that that happened. Thank you. I hate that. You know, being on the receiving end of that, I've heard you say it to probably hundreds of people at this point. And it means a lot and i appreciate it um jordan uh was an exemplary husband friend co-worker uh peer he was a even a really good stranger if you met him. But he struggled.

Can I tell you, that's the most, I've never heard somebody say that ever. And that may be the greatest compliment I've ever heard somebody give. Yeah. That he was a great was. And, you know, when he passed, the hard part of being with somebody who can sometimes, you know, they are an addict. They've had this addiction in their past. And what I've learned since Jordan's passing is that, you know, sometimes when people come to this, yes, there is free will. And you juggle with that. What did I miss? What didn't they tell me? How could I not know?

And the conversations that I've had with friends of ours recently is, imagine you're at the optometrist. They put the lenses up. Everything looks blurry. That's your view when it happens. Everything's upside down. But the reason why you didn't see it at the time is because every little piece of information, the text messages that you reread, the conversations you have with friends and family, it's like the optometrist dialing in that vision. So when you say, how could I not see it?

It's so clear. It's so apparent. Well, that's because that wasn't the lens you were looking through when it occurred. So take it easy on yourself. Absolutely. So did Jordan die of an overdose? He did. Oh, man.

Tell me this story about his last day or two. Take your time. Yeah. Jordan and I, I was in Tucson with my maid of honor visiting. He went back home to Seattle to visit family. He's got an incredible family up there. But he used to tell me, and this is not a knock on the city of Seattle or anybody listening who lives there, but he hated it. It reminded him of the past decisions that he had made that he would have wanted to change about himself.

And he battled in and out of rehab with addiction for 10 years. And when I met Jordan, he, this past week, he had actually been clean and sober for five years. And he came home that Monday night, and I picked him up from the airport, and I could just, you know, you can tell when your loved one's a little anxious. And, you know, looking back, there are some things that occurred that maybe, had I known him in that chapter of his life, would have been red flags. But when you're with somebody, you trust them when you ask if you're okay and they say, yeah, I'm okay.

And, you know, you take their word for it. And I came from a place where I just, I never wanted to question his sobriety or his journey because I knew how hard he was working. He was a therapist, you know, once a month for an hour. He was, you know, always listening to your show, always doing all the things that he thought he needed to do to remain on track and on his journey.

I think it's why he made an incredible project manager. He was extremely organized and focused on his sobriety. And it was very normal for Jordan to not fall asleep before me. So I, you know, went to sleep after I picked him up that evening, probably about 1 o'clock in the morning after we got home. And with Jordan's anxiety, it was normal for him to shower in the evening, kind of calm down, take a hot shower. Well, when I woke up that morning, about 6.20, funny how the brain will never let you forget certain things, the shower was still running, and I knew something was wrong. Oh, honey.

And so, you know, I got into the bathroom, the, the bathroom, the doors were locked and we've got a apartment with two ways into the bathroom, both were locked. And, uh, looking back at that now, you know, maybe he didn't want me to ever find out. Maybe he just needed the privacy, right? He never locked the doors. Um, but I remember prepping myself coming into the bathroom after I got the door, uh, the lock broken and saying, be prepared. And I thought, oh my gosh, Jordan had a really bad allergy attack the Saturday he was home in Seattle. And he was allergic to so many things. I thought, whoa, his throat was closing. He was going to try to trach himself or something. Oh, my word, what if he called out for me and I missed it?

And it wasn't until later that morning, you know, after the appropriate parties had been here that there was drug paraphernalia found. And even when I found him, I still didn't want to think that that's what it was because he had been clean and sober for five years doing all the things I thought he should be doing that we talked about together. And his past drug use, John, was something that he mentioned to me a week after we started dating. It was not something he did. It's not something he didn't want me to know.

And I appreciated that as a partner, you know, let me, if you want me to be here, know this and support you, let's go for it. But the thing that I have learned is, you know, I thought, oh, he must've just been backed into a corner with all this anxiety, the conversations we had had about him always feeling anxious in his mind, but starting to feel anxious in his body. I had said, let's up the visits with your therapist. Let's start walking at lunch. Let's do all these things. And I don't know enough about addiction to know, you know, for certain his circumstances in that moment where he decided that's what he was going to do. But I do know that what I've learned from talking to people after this has happened is that sometimes when things are going really well, you know, you got married, you got a great job, you've both survived pandemic layoffs and craziness, you're planning a wedding in Cabo, you're planning on chasing your wife's dream and moving to New Zealand to support her through her chiropractic program. Sometimes it's harder to say no in the good times

than it is in the bad. Yeah, because you build up some pretty powerful walls for when the bad stuff comes, and the good stuff is just, it's celebration, right? It's good. Yep. Or there's not a good psychology for, things are awesome and I'm feeling anxious.

You know what I mean? We know how to prepare ourselves for war when we're being invaded. We don't know how to stay strong when there's peacetime, right? Exactly. Tell me how you're, I mean, you experienced the worst of the worst, right? You had the, what will be a blessing in time, but the greatest, most difficult challenge on earth

is to have to show up to the scene of a loved one, right? And be the first person there to hold their hand. And there's this distinct feeling when you know, right? And it just washes over your body. What's the last three weeks been like for you?

You know, naturally, I'm a positive person. It's an attribute that I have, and sometimes it's probably so positive to where it's annoying, right? And you try to hold on to that. Yeah. But when you realize going through something like this, sometimes you're just going to be in the suck for a while. So can I just say this out loud, Laura? There is no positive here right now.

Yeah. You may choose to make meaning over time, but there's no positive here. This sucks. You know, I agree with you on that, you know, as far as the meaning. But when you say there is no positive here, I don't know if I believe that, John, because the things that we kind of held his dinner at for our friends and family to gather. The positive in that situation is when he found out what happened in Jordan's anxiety struggle, he cried. And he told me, he said, you know what, I had no idea, and I'm going through the same thing, and I'm going to get some help.

And I can't look at that experience and not think that wasn't positive. Yeah, no, that's good. That's a beautiful thing on the back end. So let me rephrase what I was saying here. For folks who have a tendency towards doom and gloom, when things go sideways or when things are positive, they tend to look everywhere they can for doom and gloom in this situation. I tend to be an optimistic person like you.

And so what I often will do is I will use my optimism as a blanket to cover over just sitting in hurt. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah. That makes perfect sense. as a blanket to cover over, just sitting and hurt. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah. And so, that's what I meant by saying there's not a positive that the guy you loved passed away 10 feet from you where you're sleeping, right? Now, will things come from this? Absolutely, because of the life he lived, right?

Because of the life you've lived. And there will be meaning made on the back end of this. There will be a lot of flowers that grow in this soil. No question about that. That story you just told about the guy at the restaurant, what a gift, man. And that's the purpose of having you on today is that I hope there are hundreds of thousands of people that hear this and say, I'm going to go get help today. I'm going to sit down with the person that I love who's struggling and say, let's go get help together. Right? So that's why we're doing this. Absolutely. But that was what I was meaning about. There's no positive in the person you love passing away.

Positive will come from it for sure. You know, sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead. You know, I think when you say like like whatever the last three weeks have been like for you uh I have just you learn things about yourself that you maybe were aware of before but just you know you hadn't expanded on yet and one of those things is when my eyes open up in the morning I get out of bed and you know you know, I have learned for myself, I can't speak to the grief or the shock or the loss that anyone else is going through.

But when I get up, my eyes are awake and my eyes are open and my brain is on, get out of bed. And I had no idea that grief birth existed. And you talk about wanting to be a positive person when you feel those waves wash over you. Sometimes the second one hits you, you know, hours later. Sometimes you feel like you're washed up on the beach and you don't know which way is up. But at some point, I'm going to relish in the fact that I made it through that one and I made it through the next one and you'll make it through all of them. But it's a choice. And, you know, the same way that I would encourage anybody in Jordan's situation to get help, somebody in my situation, don't be afraid to talk about these

things. Because the first thing I thought was I'm the keeper of my husband's secret. He trusted me and very few people with this struggle about him. And although he was smart, organized, focused, goal-driven, and supportive, he was also human. And, you know, I thought to myself, how could I ever share this with people that he didn't know? I don't want to sell him out. But addiction was not 100% of Jordan's story, nor is it 100 percent of mine, but it is a piece of it now. And if sharing this could lessen the stigma or the loss and the pain and the grief of somebody who has suddenly lost somebody who was battling addiction, you're allowed to grieve as much as you want, how you want, if they were killed overseas, if they were in armed forces, if they were a police officer, if it was just somebody who was involved in a hit-and-run accident. It doesn't lessen the pain because of their battle. That took me a while to really get through.

There is no comparison on grief ever, right? Your grief is yours and your parents' grief will be theirs and his friend's grief will be theirs and his family's grief will be theirs. And the challenge moving forward is to be really graceful with everybody and that people will be graceful with you, right? As you grieve this and it will hit you somewhere weird years from now, right? And it will hit you somewhere weird a couple of days from now and you'll be dying laughing and somebody will hit somebody else, right? So it's just being graceful, but everybody's pain is pain and hurt is hurt and loss is loss is loss is loss, right?

And yeah, trying to compare it or say mine's worse or mine's more noble or mine's... Man, loss is loss is loss. Who's witnessing this with you? Grief demands a witness that people grieve together. And I think that's one of the great curses of our time. Who's with you on this journey you're on? You know, I am so fortunate to be surrounded by so many friends and family members and even acquaintances, past co-workers, people I haven't heard from in years have caught wind of this. And, you know, I'd like to think that being there for people, what goes around comes around, good or bad, and it pays interest.

And I've had friends show up at my door that they flew in from Nashville, they flew in from Sacramento. I've got friends over, you know, in England who have said, as soon as these borders open, I'm coming for you. Tell people what that means to have that community, because this is not something you developed after this happened. This is years and years of you being a person of, like you said, investing in friendships and in community relationships, not if, but when something goes sideways. And tell people what that feels like to have people just showing up at your door, not saying anything, bringing some crummy food and just sitting with you or saying, I'll be there. Like walk people through the feeling of that.

It's an, it's an interesting feeling and I will do my best to try to describe it. When you would do anything for the people that you love, friends, family, strangers, whoever, when I say Jordan was a great stranger, a perfect stranger, I think maybe that was one of his best characteristics. And we have always said to each other, we have no idea what somebody else is going through. To know that people caught wind of this and dropped everything and just got on a plane or came over, you know, nobody knows what to do, right? Everybody says, tell me if you need anything, call me if you ever need anything. Truth be told, you have no idea what you need because you're in the thick of it. And that's

probably still in some ways, but it continues back coming back. Laura, you for sure are. Yeah, yeah. For sure. The chances of you even remembering this call six months from now is pretty slim, but yeah, you're for sure in The chances of you even remembering this call six months from now is pretty slim. But yeah, you're for sure in the thick of it, yeah. But to have that love and that outpouring around you, not only for yourself, but for your spouse, it means a lot. And it has taught me a lot about when other people I know in the future may be experiencing. I hope that they never go through anything like this, but other traumas and other difficult situations. Sometimes you might not know what to say.

You don't want to call somebody when you think they're having a good day. What if they start crying? They're going to cry anyway, so just show up for them. So if you could be up on a stage in front of a thousand couples, dating, married, on the brink of divorce, figuring out 20 years in, figuring out if they still like each other, if you could stand up there and give one piece of advice, of wisdom to married couples. Not that you know everything, right? You've only been married, like, what, a few years? But you're standing up there on the other side of a mountain that many people will never climb. What would you tell them?

You still have time. That's really it. I mean, there's, you know, you still have the one thing that I can't buy or make more of. And you've still got that. That is such an incredible asset and resource to have. But it's also something that we take for granted. And if you're willing to put the work in with each other and invest your time in your marriage and your relationships and whatever you're struggling with, that's the hard part. I'm already done. You still have the opportunity. And I would give every last dime I ever made in this lifetime to have one more conversation. You've still got time. That may be one of the most profound statements I've heard in several years. You've still got time, period. But you don't know how much.

That's right. Every second counts. So get after it. Yeah. So this is an unfair question I'm going to ask you, and you can just say, I don't know, you idiot. Or you can just guess, knowing that we'll all be graceful with you, what's next for you? What does tomorrow look like? What's the next few weeks look like for you? What do you have circling around your heart and mind today, knowing that it's going to change? So Jordan and I are both very big baseball fans. And people have said to me, what do you need? What do you need?

Tell me what you need. Tell people when your fridge is full because it'll just keep showing up. So that's one thing. Oh, the Western world loves to eat, Laura. The thing that's next for me is I started telling Jordan's friends and family, if you don't know what to do for me, I'll tell you this. Come with me to a baseball game. Sit with me at Coors Field here in Denver. Talk to me about Jordan.

Ask me questions about Jordan. Or we can just sit there in silence, have a beer, have a hot dog, and just watch a game. And that closeness that you could deal with somebody who just sits right next to you, you don't even have to say anything, that's priceless. Yeah. Don't have to have, in fact, it's not only do you not have to have the right things to say, would you agree, Laura? There is nothing anybody can say. It's a matter of, of hey I'm gonna go get another beer you want one right absolutely you're you're spot on right there and the thing is is

that sometimes the conversations that have made me feel so much better are the people who have been up front and have said to me, Laura, there are no words. I'm just going to tell you how really, insert choice word, messed up this is. And I'm not going to say it was Jordan's time. I'm not going to say at least you got X amount of months. Oh, geez. Nobody say that ever. Geez. Nobody say that ever. Nobody say that because to be honest, I moved back to Denver from Australia in 2019.

I met Jordan a few weeks later. One of the best things about my husband is that when I shared with him early on that men in the past had called me a commitment phobe or a flight risk, he grabbed my hand and said, where are we going? He was smooth, dude. That's a smooth line right there. I'll give him that one. I only knew. You only knew. That's a good line. And to come back home to the U.S. and to be with somebody, marry them, move in with them, and to have lost them all in less than two years. They're out there. Don't settle and don't give up. Because if I can experience that, I've just learned that if you're holding on so tight to something you're afraid to let go of, you don't want to be alone, the Lord or the universe isn't going to put anything in full hands because there's no room for it.

I love that. So, number one, I want to thank you for being brave and for giving me a call and for telling your story here and for inspiring people to be positive people, finding beauty even when it's a mess. For teaching people, you're modeling for people how to talk about really heavy trauma and really heavy loss. And, man, you gave me a few quotes, right? Like, be a great stranger to people and to remember you still have time. Thank you so, so much for sharing that. Hey, Laura, I'm going to tell you this, two things that I've seen over the last, I don't

know, decade of sitting with folks in your exact situation. The tendency is to, like you said, start looking at text messages and voice messages and behaviors and things and trying to re-pattern and recreate the past. I've never found somebody that brought them peace. And I've never found somebody that found a dotted line that made them go, oh, okay. But the only thing I've ever seen people find peace is with how you're doing, which is taking crooked steps into the future

in an effort to honor this awesome, awesome guy. And the second thing is I want to commend you for telling your story, and I hope you will continue to tell this story. And you mentioned something that I want to make sure that you don't forget. You mentioned that you're the only one that knows his secrets and that there is a story to tell there. There's lives to be saved there. There are relationships to be mended there. But I also want you to remember that you're the only one that knows your secrets, and those are worthy of being told too.

And you're a brave, strong, brilliant woman. And my day is infinitely better. My life is better because you took that time to be brave too. So thank you, Laura, for telling your story. Thanks, John. I really appreciate it. And if you're ever in Denver, your baseball ticket's on me, including June 20th for Jordan's Celebration of Life.

I'm so grateful for that. When the Astros play, I will be there, and they will probably cheat, but they will still win. They will beat your precious Rockies, right? Thank you so, so much, Laura. To everybody listening, I don't care where you are, what you're working through, what you're struggling through, you still have time.

You're worth being well. Find somebody to talk to. Find somebody to reach out to. Find somebody that you love. Find somebody that you don't know that you want to get to know. If your relationship's on life support, you still got time. You still got time.

You still got time. All right, so as we wrap up today's show, listen, we're not going to do any song lyrics today. We're not going to roll this out with a song. I want you to stop the recording right now. I don't want you to text somebody that you love. Let them know that you love them. Let them know that you're thinking about them and that y'all want to get together soon.

Thank you so much for joining us. This has been the Dr. John Deloney Show.