The Dr. John Delony Show - Am I in an Abusive Marriage?

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

In this week’s episode, we hear about: - A husband wondering if his wife’s behavior has crossed the line - What defines an “appropriate” relationship between a therapist and client - A woman crippled by her past mistakes Lyrics of the Day: "This is Me Trying" - Taylor Swift Enter the Ramsey Cash Giveaway here Shop the $10 Sale here Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I've been seeing my therapist for about three years now. Okay. In that time, we've become good friends. No! I've hung out. No! No!

Oh, no. I've hung out at her house. No! I've met her family. No! Run! That's what I'm talking about. This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

We're talking about mental health, marriage, parenting, whatever's going on in your world. So glad that you're here. Here's the whole point of this show. Here's why we do what we do. Me and the whole team. I want your marriage to be a little bit better or maybe a lot better want you to be whole not be an abusive toxic mess of relationship or wherever you work or financially whatever's going on in your life i just want you to have peace and that's just. It's just gone these days.

And I'm committed to bringing it back. Little by little, step by step by step by step, which I think is a New Kids on the Block song. I just want people to have peace. So that's what we do. I'll sit with you in the mess and whatever's going on in your life, and we will figure out what to do next. I've been doing this for a couple of decades,

and now I'm doing it on the internets. And so if you want to join me, if you want to come sit down and have some nachos and we'll figure this thing out, give me a call at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And huge help if you just hit subscribe. If you will just leave the reviews,

click on the subscribe buttons. It's's a huge help not only to the show But it puts it up into the the internet algorithm things and it puts the show in front of other people who are struggling Who are googling? How can I get life help? How can I get out of a bad situation? How can I stop being abused? How can I figure out whatever's going on in their life? And it just kicks up in their feed and it gets people hope, shines a light in the darkness and you can really help with that. So thank you so much for joining us.

Let's go to Alex in Nashville, Tennessee, right down the street. What's up, Alex? Yeah, I can hear you loud and clear. I can hear you even louder and clearer. I'm a one-upper, I guess. I don't know why I just said that. What's up, man?

Well, frankly, I am not okay, doc. That's why I'm calling you. Well, I'm glad you called,'t know why I just said that. What's up, man? Um, well, frankly, I am not okay, doc. That's why I'm calling you. Well, I'm glad you called man. Let's figure it out. What's up. So, uh, just to let you know, um, disclaimer, basically, I'm not here to talk about how wrong my wife is. Uh, we both have issues that we need to deal with. Um, I'll offer to bits and pieces. And the more years I spent with my wife, the more I understand how to care for her. Um, that's why I'm here. That's why I want to get to the bottom of this. Let's do it. Okay. So, um, I've been a little bit background by myself.

I've been sexually abused when I was about nine years old. I was at school. Uh, I have plenty of baby fitters. I had no clue that I was drunk to sleep at some times. Um, but now I know. And I suffer from uncontrollable sexual thoughts, fear, doubt, broken self-esteem. There'll be some days when I come home, I'll be fine. And some days that'll be just terrible, terrible. If it wasn't for my family though, like later on in the days, I probably would have been in a psychiatric facility by now.

So have you received mental health care over the years? Not necessarily. I went to a counselor here and there, but it always backlashes with my current marriage. We still have things to figure out, and I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. Have you taken the ACES score? The ACES test? I have not yet. Okay. I want you to do that right when we get off the phone. It's the

Adverse Childhood Experiences Inventory and our survey. I want you to take it. It's 10 questions. It'll take you five minutes. Okay. My guess is, just based on what you told me, your score is probably somewhere between six and eight, if maybe

not a little bit higher. A score over a four has been demonstrated to shorten lifespan if undealt with. And here's why. It sets your body off on high alert 24-7, 365 and our bodies aren't designed

to go 24 7 365 and so it slowly cascades through everything okay so i'm telling you that because um just listening to your story you sound like a pretty great guy whose car is redlining and has been since he was nine years old. Yeah. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah, that sounds about right. Okay. All right.

So we won't harp on that because that's not why you're calling. So tell me about your marriage, man. So my wife has broken parents. They never gave her love. They never spent time with her, never understood her. They still treat her as a child today. Her father was a workaholic. Her mother was a stay-at-home mom.

She will actually take care of her animals instead of her child. And that's just very, uh, very depressing. Uh, but now, uh, the anger and regret and all those things are showing in the relationship. And, uh, it's very hard because, you know, like I'm a very passive man. I don't really like conflict. I don't have conflict. And I, I'm the kind of person to just leave the situation rather than to fight in the situation. And most of the time when we come to this agreement, it just becomes very like, you know, yelling, anger, shouting. And sometimes I just wonder why, you know, like, what did I do? And it's always about what did I do and how can I make it better?

And it has been difficult since our marriage um but yeah so i'm gonna um i can tell that fragile isn't the right word but i can tell that there's you've got deep pain okay and some of the things that i normally this, if you had just said what you said, and we were in a counseling relationship, it would take a lot longer to get there because I would need your body to understand that I'm safe. Okay. Because we only have a few minutes on a phone call. I'm going to be a little more direct than I normally would. Okay. So I want, if you feel your body starting to shut down, I want you to stay with me the best you can. Okay. Okay. I'm on, I'm on your team. Okay. Okay. So my first thing I want you to hold in this, and I want you to hold it in your hand because you probably never held it before. People who have been sexually abused often carry deep, deep shame. Okay.

People who carry deep shame often, not always, but often find themselves as adults, as peacekeepers, as making sure everybody else is okay. And I want you to think of the peacekeeping role, you instantly go to the mirror and say, what did I do? How can I make this better? I'm so sorry that you're hurting.

I'm so sorry that you're mad. I'm so sorry that you're loud. How can I fix this? How can I fix this? I want you to think of that as a selfish act. And not as a judgment. I just want you to be curious about it. Because maybe your wife's response has absolutely nothing to do with you and when you try to go fix something that's spinning around inside of her

um it creates tension and chaos and conflict here's what here's what i'm back out your body has just a couple of ways to respond to threats. Fighting and fleeing are two of the main ones, or freezing. So think of the same issue. You have a tiger that's been chasing you your whole life, which is shame from sexual abuse. And probably parents who said, hey, don't tell anybody, or friends who you kept secrets from, and all the relational damage that comes out of that stuff and your wife has a dragons that have been chasing her forever and in fact those dragons are still real they're still right in front of her in that situation your body chooses to flee her body chooses to fight but the underlying reality is the same

see what i'm saying yeah yeah but the underlying reality is the same. See what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. And then that, that, that lands in your living room and you're trying to solve something that she doesn't want you to solve, but she wants to blame you for something that you can't have no,

right. It just gets in this weird figure eight dance. Yeah. That sound right. Yeah. it sounds about right. Okay. So I'm getting a sense that you are being very generous when you describe your wife as getting mad at you. Tell me how she expresses herself to you. Yeah, of course. I mean, um, very, it's kind of a weird situation to be course. I mean, very,

it's kind of a weird situation to be in. I mean, like, imagine yourself. You have spent your whole life defending other people. Okay.

Be honest about it. Yeah. I will. My promise to you is I will not talk bad about your wife. Okay. Okay. I won't do

that okay um but you've got to be honest with me okay how does she treat you yeah well um not good i mean there have been some cases where i try even fleeing doesn't really help it and sometimes make us makes it worse right there will be, I mean, there were a couple of times where, you know, the police were involved and, um, Is she hitting you, screaming at you, threatening you? I was in the vehicle and she was driving and it got pretty hectic. She was driving recklessly and it was pretty bad. But, um, uh, yeah. recklessly and it was pretty bad. But yeah, so at that time I had to find help

and the help that I got was, it was good, but at the same time it was pretty tense after that because I was away for a while. We were doing marriage counseling, but- So hold on, you're speaking kind of in code. Did you move out for a while? I did move out for a while. Listen to me. Listen to me. I didn't move out. I believe it was for a few weeks.

Okay. Listen. I'm not sure. That was the right thing to do, and I'm proud of you. Okay? It's the right thing to do. I'm very proud of you. It felt wrong. I know. I know. I know.

I know. Shame, shame, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep,

deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep,

deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep,

deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep,

deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep,

deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep,

deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep,

deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, then our bodies beat us up for not being able to solve them. Okay. And I want you to think about this. She has parents that said, treat her like a child. Still those type of parents withhold love.

If the performance by the kid, isn't up to par. So if she doesn't do whatever they say in the right way, she says it regardless of what it is, they ignore her. They shun her. They don't invite her. They say, well, then we're it, regardless of what it is, they ignore her. They shun her. They don't invite her. They say, well, then we're not going out to dinner.

Then you can't, whatever. And so you have to understand her core wound, the thing deep inside of her is this person in front of me who says they love me is going to leave. And what your body tells you is if you get too close to somebody you're gonna get abused again and so when somebody comes close to you you bolt and it's the right thing for your body and her body screams he's leaving again and then she goes to war to which makes you go i gotta get super the hell out of here. And so you see how each

person's trauma is just playing right into the other ones. Yeah. The only way this gets healed is one of you has the courage to turn and stare it down. And that's what you did. That's what you're doing. What you're doing

is really hard. Yeah. And I'm super proud of you. Thank you, doctor. is really hard. Yeah. And I'm super proud of you. Thank you, doctor. It's hard. Okay. Now,

how can I help you? Is there a particular situation or what are you thinking through? What's like a, what's a thing that's going on? Okay. So, um, I just want to understand how not to lash out her because lately after coming back, it has gotten better in some cases.

But there tends to be that one time throughout the year, a few times throughout the year where, you know, we get into a big argument. Yes. And I'm starting to be less and less flighty And more about fighting And I don't like that I don't want to go there But you have to, you have to, you have to I know you don't want to Everything in your body says run

But your heart says I love her, I'm in this marriage She's hurting, I'm hurting I'm in this marriage. She's hurting. I'm hurting. I'm standing my ground. Okay. So how do I, so basically, I guess my question is how do I make, um, how do I make the arguments less explosive or how do, how am I able to control my feelings from getting in the way to having a actual adult conversation. That's an, that the fact that you're asking that question tells me you're wise beyond your years.

And if every person in a romantic relationship in the world would ask that question, the world would change overnight. Okay. Here, I'm going to give you a couple of words that I want you to put in your back pocket. Okay.

And when this call comes out and, and, uh, I want you to take it. I want you to take a piece of paper and write down what I'm, what put in your back pocket. Okay. And when this call comes out and, and, uh, I want you to take it. I want you to take a piece of paper and write down what I'm, what I'm saying. Okay. Okay.

The first thing is these conversations have to be done offline. Meaning you can't just try to engage. You can't just practice shooting a basketball when the game is in the middle of a, of a playoff game. You got to spend time, intentional time at practice for years before the playoffs. Because the playoffs have super heightened tension. There's a lot of people watching.

There's a lot on the line here. And so I want you and your wife to step out and be honest with each other. Your childhood sucked. And then you can look across the table and say, your childhood sucked too. And the beautiful thing is that y'all get to choose what happens next. And so often the exercise of let's take all money off the table let's take all the our past abuse off the table let's take our parents having to come over for thanksgiving off the table let's take it all off the table what do we want our one wild reckless crazy marriage to look like

it could be anything we want where do we want to live what jobs do we want to live? What jobs do we want to have? Have some fun with that. And you know the things that she loves, whether it's a great meal or flowers or a weekend getaway, whatever it is, make it happen. Okay? The goal here is to change the environment and to sit down and say, okay, let's create a new picture that we can both work towards. Because right now, both of y'all have been running from dragons and you'll keep crashing into each other let's go together to something all right so yeah we're going to create a new picture a really high definition picture very clear we want to live in this place in a house that looks like this and here's the number two how do you want the house to feel when you walk in after work?

And what we're looking for here is warm and quiet or hilarious and loud and safe and silly. Okay? Yeah. And what we're going to try to do is we're going to try to create that for the other person. Yeah. So what I like when I walk in. That sounds like a dream. It does, right?

But here's the thing. Here's the number three, and this is the big one that I want you to circle and highlight. Y'all have never done this before, and you've never even seen it done. It feels like a Harry Potter episode, like a fantasy.

It's like it's not real. And so you're going to have to practice it. And that means you're going to screw up a fantasy. It's like it's not real. And so you're going to have to practice it. And that means you're going to screw up a lot. Steph Curry misses shots in practice, a lot of them, but he keeps taking them so that in a game he'll make them. And so what this means is y'all are going to go say, okay, here's what practicing looks like. When you start yelling, I am choosing to hear that as that you're done with the conversation.

I choose to not be yelled at. So if you yell, you're telling me that you don't want to engage right now. And I'm going to head out. And if you want me to stay, then you are going to have to talk to me with dignity and respect in a quiet way. And that she gets to tell you, every time you run when I get scared or I get loud, my body feels like I'm being abandoned again.

And so when I get fired up and you feel me tense, I need you to turn and stand your ground. I need you to reach up with both hands and hold my hands and say, I'm not going anywhere. I love you. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. What we're doing here is we're asking the other person in a calm situation over a lunch, over a breakfast. We're in a romantic place.

We're hanging out, whatever. We're in a Waffle House. I don't care where you are. How can I best love you when your mom or dad says something that just sets you off? How can I best love you when you have super over-sexualized thoughts and you're feeling a lot of shame? How can I best love you? And let's teach each other and give each other that language. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah, I do. Does it sound like insane, or does it sound like, wow, this is amazing? I mean, it sounds possible. It sounds possible. Okay. The third one being the most,

probably the hardest, but it sounds like it's possible But you see how it's all a progression So we're going to do the easy thing Which is what kind of house we want to live in What town If we could live in any town What would it look like

And we're going to slowly get back to You get home from an exhausting day at work And your mom's been screaming at you on the phone And you walk in the door How can I best love you then And so we're going to go from easy, which is, I want a five bedroom house with three pools and a

tiger in the backyard or whatever, all the way to stuff we've never seen before, which is I just need you to hold me for two minutes and please don't ask me any questions. I just need to feel safe. Right? We're going to get that granular.

And then we're just going to practice it. And you're going to forget. She's going to come in blowing and going, ah! And you're just going to disappear. And as you're running away, you're going to go, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I got to turn. I got to turn. I got to turn.

I got to turn. And your body's going to say, get out of here. And you're going to say, I love her. I'm heading back in. Or she's going to come screaming at you, trying to smash something or say, I'm going to crash this car. I'm going to say, I love her. I'm heading back in. Or she's going to come screaming at you, trying to smash something or say, I'm going to crash this car. I'm going to crash this car.

And at the stoplight, you're going to get out and you're going to say, I love you. And I'm choosing to walk away right now. And you walk away. But y'all have already discussed that, hey, if you choose this, I'm choosing this. I see. And let me tell you this other thing

that you don't want to hear okay for the sake of you my friend Alex my neighbor here in town for the sake of your marriage you're going to have to go see a trauma counselor and say for the first time I was sexually abused when I was a kid my family did not respond that well

and I'm ready to get I'm ready to seek healing yeah okay you have to do that yeah and what my promise is is if you get with a good trauma therapist here in nashville there's some incredible therapists here in town you get in to see one it's gonna be expensive and it's gonna take a while and that's okay. At the end of it... My question would be like, how many times do I have to go in and like, what am I supposed to be doing now,

I guess? Make the phone call and just trust the process. Okay? Trust the process. And when you get there, ask that question. Say,

I don't understand how this whole thing works. I think this is weird. I think just talking to you is dumb and it's going to be a waste of my time. A therapist can handle that. They're professional. That's their job. Okay?

Be honest with them. But here's what we're going for. We're going for that memory, that shame that immediately spins your body up. Your body spends all day coming up with these looping thoughts, trying to get a hold of it, these sexualized thoughts, these obsessive behaviors, these obsessive thoughts, these compulsive behaviors.

Your brain is working all the time trying to catch up, catch up, catch up, catch up. What trauma therapy is going to do for you is you're going to wake up and one of these thoughts is going to lightning bolt into your mind and your body's not going to take off on you. You're not going to feel like you're at war. Your heart's not going to be racing really fast. You're not going to look around the room to see if your wife's pissed off and her body's

going to sense that your body's calm. And so your energy, your shame response, your response to abuse from 20 years ago that your body's still electrified from, your sympathetic nervous system is still firing and firing and firing and firing. her body's not going to feel that energy and start responding and she's going to have to have the courage to tell her parents you don't get a vote anymore i'm a grown woman if y'all are going to tell me what to do and treat me like a kid i'm hanging up the phone you don't get to talk to me like that and if they're paying some of your bills y'all get to decide we're our sanity and our maturity and our adulthood isn't worth their money. Whatever the thing is, right? All this is gonna be about establishing boundaries and yada, yada, yada. All these

things are important. But first we're going to start with you and me are in this together. You and me are in this together. What do we want this thing to look like? And I'm going first. I call the counselor. I'm going to get well, whatever it it takes i'm worth it and you're worth it and we are worth it alex thank you so much for the call stay on the line i'm missing your copy of own your past change your future in fact i'm gonna send you two one for you and one for your wife and i want you all to go through them together and then come visit us in the studios if you ever want to run downtown and hang out i'd love to meet you in person. Appreciate your courage, man. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks.

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All right, let's go to Amy in Las Vegas. What's up, Amy? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? Partying. What are you up to? Rocking on to the break it on. What's up, Amy? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? Partying. What are you up to? Rocking on to the break it on. What are you doing? You're in Vegas.

Not much. Yeah. You're like, yeah. All right. So what's up? Yeah. This is Vegas. Okay. So I have a question for you.

I've been seeing my therapist for about three years now. Okay. In that time, we've become good question for you. I've been seeing my therapist for about three years now. Okay. In that time, we've become good friends. No! I've hung out. No! No! Oh, no.

I've hung out at her house. No! I've met her family. No! Run! Unethical therapist. Like, rule number one. I don't even know what you're know I don't know what you're

I just totally interrupted you like how can I help Amy? No that's okay you know we've done a lot of stuff together we've hung out No! What kind of therapist dude report this therapist they should have no license

they should have their license taken away. They are unethical. Is it male or female? It's a female. Okay. Are you all in a romantic relationship? No, no. So the first time she invited me to her house, I was really happy that she invited me.

Of course. Hold on. Is she allowed to do that? No. Am I allowed to do that? No i allowed to do that no you're allowed to do whatever you want you're a grown-up she is not she is a licensed professional yeah it's a it's a core violation it's the it's one of the corest violations here here's why here it's called a dual relationship it's highly unethical. Here's why. Okay. Friendship is the giving and taking

of presence, right? This back and forth of love and deep understanding and the promise that come what may, I'll hold your burdens and you'll hold mine. Yeah. And a professional therapeutic relationship is entirely one-sided you are paying another person to sit with you and your burdens there can be there can never be an expectation or realized the therapist doing the reverse asking you to hold her burdens her her friendship, come to my house, do our things. Highly manipulative, highly unethical. There should never be contact with the client. Listen, here's how wild it gets.

I had a client once that was speaking at an event I was at, and I had a question. Nobody in that room knew. Nobody. And I had a, nobody in that room knew, nobody. I've got colleagues who they, when they introduce themselves to their clients, they will say, if I see, here's a common thing. Let me say it this way. If I see you in a grocery store,

I'm going to walk right by you. I will not acknowledge you. And it's going to be weird because you just told me about all this crazy sex stuff between you and your husband and your boyfriend that you're having an affair with. It's going to feel weird that we had these intimate conversations and I just walked straight past you at a grocery store, but I'm going to honor confidentiality so much. I'm going to honor the professional relationship so firmly. Now you can go run up and hug your therapist

and be like, I don't care. That's fine.'s fine you're allowed to do that um and then once you breach that that boundary you can hug and say hi or whatever um but dude it is i i mean i can't tell you how wrong that is so there's no situation where that would be appropriate i think i have to it's been a while since i i the the counseling um code of ethics um i think is five years after the last session can you have a relationship and i think the apa it's been a while since i read that one but i think that one is never but i've been a homie that one. But it's at least an extended period of time after you write your last check and you have your last session. Okay. Yeah.

Highly, highly, highly unprofessional. Okay. I think, you know, I think part of the reason is because she's an unethical professional. That's the only reason. That's the only reason. That's the only reason. Okay. What are you going to say? That was rude. Well, she knows that I don't have any other friends. Um, and I have a toxic family that I'm currently, um, distancing myself from, and I don't know if she's doing it as a way to try and help me. She knows my situation and I just don't know if that's why she's doing

it or she just... I don't know, but... I would not... So in psychology, it's called the fundamental attribution error where you get inside someone else's head and try to decide why they're doing whatever it is they're doing,

I would not do that. I'd get out of her head. Because even if she's trying to help, what she should be doing, okay, let's just use this example. What she should be doing is teaching you in session how to be uncomfortable, how to ask, hey, you want to go hang out and grab coffee? Hey, let's make a plan for, you're going to invite three women that you don't know that well that you work with, but you're going to invite them over

for whatever is going on. And then she's going to be a safe place for you to go back to during your next session after the thing is, the party's a disaster or after it goes great. And she's, so her job is to teach you skills and then send you

out into the wild. And in the counseling session, you get to practice those skills. The beautiful thing about the counselor client relationship is it mimics the real world. It's a safe place for you, somebody who's struggling with relationships, somebody who's struggling with a toxic family to practice heading back out into the real world. It's unethical when she follows you out into the real world and says, hey, hold on, you can't really do this. I'll take this for you. And in the same time, meets her own needs by using you.

Well, the thing is, she has been such a godsend to me. She's helped me through the worst times in my life and i i really value both her friendship and her expertise as a therapist i just don't want to lose her um i mean i i just i don't i i really enjoy spending time with her of course you do of course you do that's in in do. That's, and quite honestly, that's the problem. I'm going to use a, I'm going to use an analogy that may,

may not fit, may not be fair, but it's the one coming to mind. Okay? Okay. Imagine a buddy of mine sitting down and telling me how amazing his wife is.

She loves me. She shows up for me she listens to me the sex is unbelievable like i love my wife and then our other buddy at the table says, I pay a woman for sex. I pay her for her time and her relationship and her interaction. And she listens to me and we talk and we hang out. She invites me over. One of those sounds right and one of those sounds disgusting. You see what I'm saying? You're paying her. I just...

I know, I know. You're saying it's unethical because it's like a one-sided conversation, a one-sided thing. I'm saying it's unethical because she's violating the code of ethics of the profession that she hopefully is licensed and shouldn't be much longer. She's got a very vulnerable person who's struggling with family dynamics, who's struggling with loneliness. And she is using that person, A, for money, B, to fill whatever needs she's filling,

even if she needs to feel like she can solve everybody else's problems and she can make people feel not so bad about themselves. It's not her job. Her job is to walk alongside you, teach you skills, hold you accountable, call you out, and care for you as you head out into your world. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? And I can't imagine how heartbreaking this is for you, which is why I'm so upset about it. Well, I think I knew what the answer was, but I think I just needed to hear it out loud, you know.

I think you're being used. And I think you are worth more than that. Just listening to you, I think you would be a great friend. And I bet you're loyal to a fault, aren't you? Oh, yeah. The world needs more people like you as friends. I think part of me feels like I'm not going to be able to find, quote unquote, real friends out there. So I'm kind of attached to her. And that's her job is to not let you get that attached to her.

And she failed you. I'm sorry. Yeah. Her job is to, that discomfort you feel, that fear, because your family didn't show up for you when they should have. Your other friends haven't shown up for you. Have you had romantic relationships go sideways? I have. Yeah.

So you've got a lifelong history, a train tracks of relational pain. And what her job is, is to sit with you in the discomfort, not try to take it away for you. And she took it away from you and she charged you for it. Yeah. Yeah And so in a way she robbed you of the opportunity to go out and practice making friends screw it up Be awkward be weird learn about yourself learn about what your value is and over time Basically, here's what she did. You went and got a personal trainer And you paid her And she lifts the weights for you every time y'all lift. And then when it's over, you're not very strong, and you don't feel confident because you know you didn't lift any weight.

But it was awesome to see that much weight on the bar. See what I'm saying? Yeah, that makes sense. Well, do you think... I think you should never see her again. You should file on her license in the state of Nevada is what I think. You think even if I

stopped seeing her as a therapist that I couldn't continue seeing her as a friend? I think you're a grown-up and you can do whatever you want. When I run into unethical... I mean, I guess I don't hang out with guys like that. Like, one of my

closest buddies in the world, his name's John King. He's an amazing friend. And he is the CEO of an HR... He's a chief exec... He's not a CEO, but he's a senior leader in an HVAC company. If we were just having drinks one night and he told me, he was like, man, I'd like to charge extra here and here and rip these people. I wouldn't hang out with him.

Yeah. Like, I don't want those people in my life. My friends aren't like that. I think I'm just having trouble figuring it out or understanding why exactly it's unethical. Go back and listen to Cole because I'll walk you through it.

And what you're going to start doing is you're going to spiral because she's become your oxygen tank. And she... How about this? Have her call me. Have her call the show.

I'd love to talk to her. Let's do that. And you can just be a fly on the wall for that conversation. She won't call. But... There's the dare, Amy's therapist. You unethical, shouldn't have a little ice. I'm just going to shut up. We'll be right back.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst.

If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life.

Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapist

at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Raleigh, North Carolina and talk to Jade. What's up, Jade? Hi, how are you? I mean, I could not be better.

How are you? Good, good. What's up? So, I guess just to get straight to the point. Cannonball, dude. Yeah, just jump in. Yeah, I've just to get straight to the point. Cannonball, dude. Yeah, just jump in. Yeah, I've been doing really good in my life. I'm in a healthy relationship.

I've gone into a positive direction. But for some reason, I just can never forgive myself for all the bad decisions I've made in the past. And I just feel like I'm just always angry with myself. What'd you do? So I got into a really bad relationship that kind of like destroyed everything. Like my family, it destroyed me financially. I married him knowing that like he had a baby with my friend. He was always, you know, hiding things behind my back, lying to me.

And there's so many red flags of why I should have never been with him. And I finally made the decision after I married him to divorce him because I just couldn't take the emotional, mental abuse anymore, the financial abuse. And I'm in a better place with my life now, but every single time I do something well, I'm like, wow, I could have done this such a long time ago if I had never made those bad decisions. You would not be near the gangster that you are right now if you had not been through that.

Yeah, I don't really feel like that sometimes. I know. I feel like very angry at myself. I know. I know. Who taught you in your life that when you're abused, it's your fault? I kind of, I guess it's my mom. Somebody taught you that.

Yeah. Well, how did she teach you that? Well, like even if I could do everything right. And if something happens wrong, she finds some way to have, even though like I could have done everything to prevent that from happening. If just something happens wrong, it's like, you should have done X, Y, and Z better. You should have done this. And I've kind of always felt like if I am not perfect or if I don't find a way to make sure there is no mistakes, that I'm just a complete failure. And somehow over time, her constant criticism and critique and negativity. You've probably heard me use this analogy, but you were born with a backpack,

a beautiful little girl. Where were you born? I was born in Okinawa, Japan. Okay, beautiful little girl in Okinawa. And makes your way to your states, the states. And your mom just keeps dropping little pebbles in your backpack every day. Why are you wearing that?

You're too fat. Don't fix your hair like that. Why are you wearing that? You're too fat. Don't fix your hair like that. It makes you look ugly. You have a big forehead. And I'm just making stuff up. I've never seen you. But just never stops. Why did you do this?

Is this the best you can do? You couldn't have got 100. You just got a 98. It's stupid. Right? Little pebble, little pebble, little pebble. And after a while, that backpack gets really freaking heavy, doesn't it? Yeah. And after a while, that backpack gets really freaking heavy, doesn't it?

Yeah. And after a while, her words become your words. So when you talk that way to yourself, that's not your voice. That's your mom's voice. Fair? Yeah. Now, how many years ago did you start this relationship with this dude? So he was actually my high school sweetheart.

So I've been with him for a long time before I finally broke it off because I just couldn't handle it. How old was he? When we first met, we were in our teenage years. And then finally when we separated. What was great about him when you met him? Like, was he cute? Was he funny? Was he silly?

Yeah, all of that. Okay. Were you 16, 14? How old were you? I was 15. 15? Mm-hmm. Here's homework assignment number one.

I want you to write 15 year old Jade a letter a handwritten letter with notebook paper and a pen I want you to forgive her let her go she was a kid okay if you met a 15 year old little girl how old are you now I'm 28 if you met a 15-year-old little girl, how old are you now? I'm 28. If you met a 15-year-old girl who was just beating herself up because her boyfriend was slowly taking her soul from her and taking her innocence from her and was slowly controlling her, and she was just telling you what a terrible girlfriend she is, what would you say to her?

That she shouldn't be in that relationship. Yeah, and you tell her, hey, you're a kid. Chill out. You need to tell 15-year-old Jade that that boy was cute and that boy was funny and she acted like every other 15-year-old girl. And she had a crush

on him and she went on a date with him and then she fell in love with him. And nobody could have predicted the quicksand that you would have ended up in. And abuse and trauma and gaslighting and psychosis, all those things wreak havoc on people. We find ourselves doing things we would never do just to keep the peace for a minute, just to keep safety, just to keep whatever. And then your second letter I want you to write.

How old were you when you broke up with this dude when you got divorced? I was about 26. Okay. I want you to write 26-year-old Jade a letter and tell her how proud of her you are for getting the courage to stand up, for getting the courage to walk away, from getting the courage from all of it. And be very specific in that letter. You did this and you did this. Good for you. And then here's my big question for you.

Is any of this constant beating up on yourself? You talk to yourself in a way that you would never let somebody talk to another person that you love. If somebody at a bar talked to one of your girlfriends the way you talk to yourself, you would hit them in the mouth with a beer bottle. Right? I know you would.

So my question is, is any of this self-talk helping? Is any of this helping you get where you want to be? No. Okay. It just upsets me. It does. I just get down on myself even more. Because from the earliest age you can remember,

the one person who was supposed to be in your corner all the time declared war on you. And from as early as you can remember, the first guy who looked at you and said, I love you and I'll be here forever was a piece of crap. So it's easy for your body to think, oh, this is what I'm worth all across the board. The most important woman, my first love, all, you see what I'm saying? So what you have to decide is I'm done with this. Jade is an absolute gangster who's been through hell and back and I got the scars to prove it. Bring it on world. And mom, if you're going to continue to

criticize me, then you are choosing to not be in relationship with this gangster. Bye Felicia. Hey, new boyfriend. If you get an ounce of dishonesty, dude I'm a smoke show. I'm awesome. I'm jade Bye felicia Great and when jade starts talking to jade really bad negatively I want you to keep a little journal once you start writing that crap down I want you to physically write it down and physically draw

a line through it and write underneath it, lies. Not true. Or occasionally, I probably shouldn't have eaten two McGriddles. Fair. Right? That's fair. You can circle that one

and say, true. Alright? Yeah. Alright, so I just talked a lot at you. Tell me how, how you're feeling. Um, I feel a bit better about it. Um, I guess, like I kind of worry that like a lot of these habits that I've kind of picked up from all of that is kind of like entering into my new relationship too. And I just don't want that to transition there because I'm trying to make sure,

remember that he's not my ex. And it's really hard for me. So here's the way to overcome it. Keep no secrets. Here's what that means. Is this new boyfriend, this new person you're in a relationship with, do they know all your past?

Yeah. Okay. So I want you to take them out and say, I like you. Have you said I love you? Gross. Yeah. I don't want to wait.

All right. So I want you to take them out and say, I love you. And I am finding myself falling into old patterns. I'm not going to allow that to happen again. And if you love me, you're going to walk alongside me. Here's what this means. This means I'm going to have to practice. If you catch me with negative self-talk, I'm asking you to call it out. If you see me

withdrawing, I'm going to ask you to reach out and grab my hand and say, I love you. Whatever it is that you need in those moments, I want you to speak those needs out. And when you speak those needs out, you're going to feel buck naked on the Taylor Swift stage in front of all these people. You're going to feel so exposed, right? Because nobody's ever given a crap what you need or want or feel. Right. And it's time.

But you can't expect them to if you're not going to give yourself that. Right. Are you in? Yeah, I'm definitely going to try not to be as mean to myself. No! No! Better than that. I'm freaking Jade.

And I want a reckless, hilarious, fun marriage. Drama free. And I want a reckless, hilarious, fun marriage. Drama free. I want a job that's not toxic. I want adult relationships that aren't stupid. And I'm worth all that. Fair? Fair.

What's your favorite charity in the world? Like what's a thing that's near and dear to your heart um the domestic violence awareness do you have a local chapter there in Raleigh yeah we do we have like a women's shelter that usually helps them okay um

will you make me a deal here on the radio yeah say I promise I promise Will you make me a deal here on the radio? Yeah. Say, I promise. I promise. Oh, this is amazing. You're such a sucker. I can't believe you said yes to this.

Okay. Every time you talk negative to Jade, you have to send them a dollar. Every time. Yeah, I could do that. Okay. It's going to cost you money. Cool. Yeah. You have to put some roadblocks up between your automated response, whether that's a behavior, whether that's an action, whether it's grabbing a drink or grabbing a cigarette or running away, or between your thoughts.

Here's a funny example that's not so funny, and I'm not proud of it, but it just is. I have a buddy who wants to drink less, and I eat way too much junk food. So I put $1,000 on the table. $1,000. The first person, if he has a drink or if I grab junk food, $1,000, the first person to blink, the other person's got to pay. And I figured out really quickly, I'm so mindless. I just reach over, there's candy everywhere here. There's junk food and donuts everywhere here at work and everywhere I go, my house, it's Easter.

Good God. And I just grab it. And so I started to grab it the very first time. Right after I made this deal, I reached over to grab it. And I was by myself and I just flipped it off. I gave it to Bird. And then it made me laugh because I was just trying to say like, no. I took a picture of it and I texted it to him. And then every time I started mindlessly grabbing it, it was making me laugh. I would give it to Bird and I'd take a picture of it and text it to him. And then every time I started mindlessly grabbing it, it was making me laugh.

I would give it the bird and I'd take a picture of it and text it to him. And in about a week, I quit grabbing it. What I needed was something to, like, it's just called mindfulness. I needed something to stop my automated response. You suck. Well, there's a dollar.

I'm Venmoing the women's shelter. He's going to get so mad if you, there's a dollar. I'm sending the Venmo. I mean, I'm sending the shelter. I can't believe you're so stupid. You're late. There's another dollar, right? I'm going to put these little roadblocks in front of me so that I can begin to catch myself in this automated responses. And you're going to have to decide, I'm going to quit carrying this crap around. Are you done carrying it, Jade? Yeah, I really am.

You promise? I promise. Tell this boy that you're dating, you're about to get a whole new woman. And I'm going to be fun, and we're going to be goofy and we're going dancing. Everything's changing. And it's going to be a bumpy shot out of the gate.

We're going to have to figure this out and practice it, but we're changing it all. We're changing all of it because I'm Jade and I want a different world. I want a different life. I want a different life. And if that means you got to cut people out of your life, good. That means you have to add I want a different life. And if that means you got to cut people out of your life, good. If that means you have to add new people in your life, good.

Whatever it takes, Jade. You're worth that and everything good you got coming for you. You've been through hell and back and you got the scars. Now I want you to stand up and realize how strong and how tall you are.

And how awesome whatever's coming next can be If you make some hard choices and some hard changes you're worth it. We'll be right back Hey, what's up deloney here listen you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out Or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right. Hey, Kelly's out today. Her mother-in-law passed away. I mean, she has just had a rough last six months or so. So if you'll keep Kelly in your prayers, think about her as she's down there taking care of her family. But that means that Jenna is behind the board today

as the producer of the show. And that means of course, we're doing a Taylor Swift song to end the day. Absolutely. If I'm in the seat, it'll most likely be a Taylor Swift song. This show is basically the Taylor Swift with special guest, John Deloney show. The song is called.

This is me trying. I've been having a hard time adjusting. I had the shiniest wheels and now they're rusting. Gosh, that's Taylor's rhymes, dude. They are like Jay-Z-esque. I didn't know if you'd care if I came back. I have a lot of regrets about that. Pulled the car off the road to the lookout.

Could have followed my tears all the way down and maybe I don't quite know what to say, but I'm here in your doorway. Oh my gosh, that was awesome. All that stuff and she ended up at his house. Well done, C-Swift. I doorway. Oh my gosh, that was awesome. All that stuff, and she ended up at his house. Well done, T-Swift. I just wanted you to know this is me trying. Oh my gosh, this is so good. This is me trying. This, America, y'all don't need this show. Just listen to T-Swift, and everything will be better. Love you guys.