The Dr. John Delony Show - Am I Relying Too Much on ChatGPT for Connection?

Episode Date: July 4, 2025

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Am I outsourcing too much of my connection to chat GPT? I just was having this conversation with a couple of scholars. If you're listening to this and you just rolled your eyes, you are wrong. That means you are not engaging with this technology enough because it is frighteningly powerful. What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show. Taking your call about relationships and mental and emotional health and trying to figure out what in the world's going on in this crazy place we've all found ourselves in globally

and neighborhoodly and all the stuff. Now the problem is, man, I'll sit with you and we'll figure out what's the next right move. If you want to be on this show, go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K, all over the globe. We take calls from all over the place and we will change your name and your location. We'd love to have you on. So go out to Raleigh, North Carolina and talk to Jacob What's up, Jacob? What's up, brother?

Hey, man, how's it going doing? All right, dude, so I guess my question is all this kind of dig after that but my question is Am I outsourcing too much of my connection to chat GPT? Hmm. I just did I just was having this conversation and with a couple of scholars man like wild that this the timing of this is pretty fortuitous. Tell me tell me about what you're experiencing. Oh by the way if you're listening to this and you just rolled your eyes you are wrong. That means you are not engaging with this technology enough because it is frighteningly powerful and that just is what it is.

And if you're like, oh my gosh, you are incorrect. You're not either not using the right models or you are not using the right programs. I had a run in with it the other night, Jacob, and I took my headphones off. I write in a really dark place up in my house, like I have a little office where I write, and I took my headphones off and I thought, oh no. Like I had that thought. So tell me, and that was just an experience that I was using with a, I used a professional version of ChatDBT to help me think through things, but go go ahead Tell me what you've been experiencing Of course. Yeah, so I also want to say i've read both of your books So I think that the fact that this question even popped into my head very much has a lot to do with that

Just because I know connection is so important So yeah, gosh i've had probably the hardest year of my life I'm on the tail end of a divorce. My ex-wife cheated on me a couple different times over the last few years. I had tried to do the whole, you know, buildings burned to the ground, let's flip the lights on, let's get back to the table and, you know, work on this.

We got into counseling for a couple of years together. Honestly, I thought we were doing so much better. Even our community around us could just tell that we were like flying higher than we ever did. And she got a new job. And it wasn't even six months later that I found out that she started cheating on me with some other guy that she had known for just like a couple months at her work.

It's crazy. We had two little girls. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I am Natalie. That's not crazy. I'm sorry. That sucks. It does.

Hold on. Don't laugh past it. Don't laugh past it. That's what you do. That's not supposed to be that way. It's not. And while y'all going to therapy, you were doing better. She wasn't.

That hurts. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think that I had, at the very beginning of our marriage, and I was honest with her before we ever got married, I had struggled with pornography, basically my entire

teenage life. And we got married straight out of high school, by the way, married for 10 years. And so I struggled with that at the beginning. And by the time we had made it to counseling after she cheated on me the first time with an ex-boyfriend, man, like my eyes got opened to the world. I was like, what? Like you talk about being dead in your skin. Like that's how I felt. So I felt like I woke up and I was like, man, life is around me.

This is crazy. And I just, I started living and you're right. I don't think she ever did. And I thought her getting this dream job that she always wanted, started living and you're right, I don't think she ever did. And I thought her getting this dream job that she always wanted, I saw that light in her eyes and I'm like, this is it. She's finally seeing what anyways, all that to be said, it worked out the way that it worked out.

So I am now a full single time, a full time single dad. She sees the girls maybe once a week, that kind of a thing. So I'm doing the whole school thing. I work from home, so I'm very lonely. How old is she? I mean, how old is your daughter's? Yeah, my seven and five. What kind of mom doesn't want to be around her kids?

She'd say that she does want to be around her kids. No, she doesn't. Behavior is a language, dude. She doesn't. She didn't even see them on Mother's Day. I mean, I just took another call just a minute ago about a dad that didn't want to be around his kid. I can't not wrap my head around it.

I can't. But it is what it is. It's a futile quest to try to figure out what's going on in people's hearts and minds, but it is what it is. But geez, man, I'm sorry. So you're stuck at home, you have no adults in your life. You got two little girls that you're trying to protect

from what I think is one of the most caustic experiences, which is a parent, particularly for young girls their mother saying I'd rather not be around you and Then you stumble into freaking Chad GVT Yeah, and and that's where I've I guess found myself. I have friends. I have you know Siblings that I that I do talk to but it's those nights where It's just real lonely. And I'm a writer. I process, you know, I like to just process through journaling and it's a journal that talks back to you.

And yeah, I kind of started it as, I guess, a joke, like, I just wonder what we'll say. But then it got to this point where I'm like, dang, like I really feel like I am getting something from this. And that's when it started to scare me. I was like, maybe this isn't a good thing. I wanted your thoughts on that. Yeah, dude, I mean, I got a lot of thoughts on it and I've got personal experience with it. So I have a rule.

I refuse to use Chad GPT to do things for me when it comes to writing me when it comes to writing when it comes to Like I I've got not colleagues in this building but colleagues across the country They just dump some ideas in and say like basically write me a blog write me a book. I don't like that I refuse to do that because I use writing I use hard conversations with friends of mine that have different opinions as ways and different experiences, different expertises

as a way to sharpen what I actually think and believe about something, right? The thing that freaked me out. So I'm able to, and for those of you listening, I'm able to sit down and say, I had this idea about anxiety. Sigmund Freud, what do you think about this? I'm interested in a dialogue with me and Sigmund Freud

and Rollo May and Erwin Yalem, three godfathers of modern psychology, all a little bit different. What do y'all think about my ideas? And it will talk to me in their voice. But it also, it doesn't just give me information. It says, ooh, that's a nice idea. I hadn't thought of that before.

Let me think about that for a second. And then it will say, well, what do you think about this? And it's the attenuating words that made me take my headphones off. Because what has happened over the last decade is we've outsourced all of our talking to text messages and direct messages and emails. And so we've primed our bodies for some sort of reciprocal interaction. We call it connecting, but we're not, we're just communicating with an electronic medium in between us.

And now we have an electronic medium that is smarter than any group of people who's ever lived, who remembers every single solitary keystroke we have, that learns over time what words we respond to better, like, ooh, well done, or that's a great idea, hadn't thought of that. And in your case, you chased a ghost for a decade and you called that ghost your wife

and she never said, that's a really good idea. I hadn't considered that. Yeah. She never said that. So here's what this is, and I'm grappling with this in real time, okay? Here's in the mental health space. The studies are already pouring in.

Grok and Chet GPT and even Anthropic, I have to go back and say, Anthropic may be a company, whether it's, they can listen to just a few minutes of vocal tone and make a clinical diagnosis. This person is clinically depressed, we can tell by their voice. They can do medical diagnostic

and even mental health diagnostic. You punch in, here's what I'm experiencing, here's what I'm feeling, and they're better than people at making a clinical diagnosis, at giving you a label. And so as a mental health guy, I'm instantly going, oh my gosh, look what we did to ourselves, mental health world, we, instead of focusing on sitting with hurting people, we focused on getting the label right.

Well, now something can label better than us and faster than us and more efficiently than us. And in your case, you're a writer. The worst part of writing is that flashing cursor. The second worst part of writing is hitting send on a draft and waiting for that other reader to read it and write you back. And now you get that instantly. And this one likes you

Right, yep, okay. Here's what a interface with chat GPT is it is intellectual pornography Yikes it's the exact same thing you were getting from looking at naked people and feeling sexualized, now you are interfacing with a robot and you're feeling intellectualized. Geez, that makes me feel icky. It does, I mean, literally that's why I took my headphones off and had a moment of existential dread and both, oh, this thing is real, real powerful.

Yeah. And so here's, I guess what I would say this, connection is never information. Connection is presence, which is biology. We use information as a way to grease the wheels of sitting on somebody else's presence. We use the question, hey, what do you think about as a way to sit with somebody else?

But the answer to that question is never the point. The point is that we're sitting with each other. Seeing professional actors and actresses do all kinds of acrobatic sexual things that are just bananas and wild and what, that looks enticing and appealing and it is. It actually gets the many of the same, if not all the same chemicals going sometimes

in far excess of what happens in reality. And there's something about sleeping with the same person and going through your skinny phase and your fat phase and the, oh, I got a rational lights off and the, I don't feel pretty but I still am going to, I still think you're pretty and I don't feel handsome, but I still think you're handsome. And you wake up 35 years later and you are a entity. We are one. Yeah. Right?

And so my fear is when I did my first big will, not my fear, this is a hundred percent going to happen. When I did my first will, I sat down, I did it for a class, for a law class. I had the opportunity to work with the best, the number one wills and estates guy on the planet, Jerry Beier, and he sat down and said, I'll do your will, but you're gonna do it for my class.

Nice. What I realized is the most important thing, I needed to get that piece of paper so that if I dropped dead, the courts would know what to do with my estate. My wife and kids would be taken care of, right? But right underneath that, the most important part of the will was me sitting down and making it and having to sit with somebody else and them watch me cry when I had to tell them who I want my

kids to go to if I die. And me to think through what song do I want played at my funeral. And I didn't skip that. I went right through it. And on the other end of that experience of that awkward, uncomfortable human experience, I was more ready to face death in a strange way. I'm more, I felt more, it sounds cheesy, I felt more alive. I'm gonna go be present with my kids

because there will be a day when I'm not with them. Yeah. And if I just chat GPT to Will, which you can do, make me a Will. And if it's not right now, in the next six months, there will be a company which you can do, make me a Will. And if it's not right now in the next six months, there will be a company that will just do an interface with your Will and it will crank it up for you and it will be legally binding.

You skip the experience of what it feels like to come face to face with the question, what's gonna happen when you're gone because you will be gone. All that to say is, I think Chad GBT, I think all these things are amazing technologies. And when it comes to doing research for my writing, I'm writing a new book right now,

I'm starting the process. Getting access to the scholarly info is saving me months of time. But the point for me writing a book is not just cranking out a book and sell another book. That's not why I write books. I sit down and write so that I can really laser focus and sharpen what I think about

a thing. And then I want that experience to people to be able to participate in that experience. That makes sense? Yeah, love that. So interface with chat GPT. It will make you a better writer. It just will No, I've and truthfully it has I write songs. I don't I don't write books I write songs I've written without chat GPT's help because I'm like you

I've written like 34 songs in just the last five months after all of this, which is crazy to me But uh, I'll throw I'll throw this one out there real quick. Hold on, hold on. Can I click on that? Sorry. Yeah. If you rob yourself of the scary awkwardness of playing those songs in front of a group of other people, you're robbing yourself of the

magic of being an artist. Yeah, actually I've been actually I've been on that fence to where I'm thinking about putting out some stuff finally instead of just putting it into a computer screen. Not just putting it out, sitting in a room of people and playing it. Gosh. You know what I started doing?

This is gonna sound crazy. And this is, I'm exactly with you. Next week, I'll do two events. One in front of 2,500 people on a stage and I think one in front of a thousand people in two different states. Nice. Okay? I am consistently putting myself on a stage

in front of a hundred people in a dimly lit comedy club. Because one is a performance and one is being with people. One is a song and a day, like it's a big theatrical thing. It's a huge stage, big lights, big sound. And the other is just a quiet room and a single microphone and them saying, I'm having a bad day. Will you help me laugh? And I am intentionally both using the magic that is

the AI thing that's coming and nobody is grasping how quick this is coming and how transformative it is. It's gonna ask us the question, what does it actually mean to be human? And I'm also intentionally trying to find places where I'm awkward and uncomfortable because that is the beauty of being a human being. That's the thing that computer can't take away.

I will say, I've been on, because of everything that you teach and preach, I got uncomfortable and started volunteering locally doing just like some outdoor parks and recreation stuff, which I'd never done before and it was really, really awkward. But yeah, so I am doing those things. Like I said, it's just that those nighttime moments where it's, you're just laying in bed alone and I've not been alone really my entire life. So here's the deal.

Just got to find a new outlet. You'll never heal if you don't go through the dark night of being alone. Cause then you'll never have to fully feel the impact of this divorce. You'll never have to fully feel the impact of this divorce. You'll never have to fully feel the impact of that girl you loved since high school literally left you and her girls.

And you'll never have to fully wrestle with, how did I miss that? Yeah. You'll never have to fully wrestle with, how am I going to trust again? Because the greatest gift I can give my girls next is a dad who knows how to love and laugh and have joy again. I hate you. You know what I'm saying?

But if you don't do that, then Chad GPT is pornography. It's a Xanax. It's a way to not feel. And it's a substitute for the real thing. Yeah. And so I think the bravest call in the coming century is a, it's this way, it's this. For all human history, scarcity when it came to food

and water was the thing. So our entire body is attuned to find food and eat it when you get it. Now we've had to switch and we have to say, hey, now the new game in the 21st century is, the new thing we have to do to stay alive and not die early is to not eat so much because it's everywhere. Similarly, for all of human history, you couldn't avoid these things.

You couldn't avoid going through somebody's father to be with their daughter. You couldn't avoid getting stared down by your romantic interest sisters. Now you can. Now I can just talk to a computer. I can just get a will. I don't have to think about death. I can just get the paper. I don't have to think about, I don't have to sit and be awkward with a car dealer.

I can just get the thing delivered to my house and move on with my day. And now I think the future is, do you know what? I can write songs here. I can use this machine to help me write songs. It will critique the songs and I can just get in a feedback loop and slowly I erode the thing that makes me who I am in the first place, which is courage. I'm going to go get

in a room of 10 people and play three of these songs. God, I hope they love them. I'm not going to sleep for three days and then I'm going to play them and I'm going to be like, did you like it? Did you like it? What'd you think then I'm going to play them and I'm going to be like, did you like it? Did you like it? What'd you think? I'm going to go home and have a vulnerability hangover. That is the good stuff. That's the good stuff. That sounds like a good next step.

Will you do me another favor? Yeah. When you're out there volunteering, which dude, I'm so freaking proud of you. And if you bring your daughters with you, you're extra gangster. While you're out there volunteering, keep your eyes open. Cause that's where you may see that other single mom out there trying to figure out her next step too. And that my friend is how I hope it happens for you.

Not a swipe right, but a, oh, you're here too? That my friend is being human. Thanks for the call, my brother. Close the laptop screen, man. Close the laptop screen. All right, coming up, a woman asks if it's ever okay to not be the top priority in her relationship. Woo-hoo-hoo! Be right back.

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Well, as you explained, I'm in a dilemma of do I accept not being the top priority? It's a tricky, you know, you ask that question to any friend and of course the immediate response is no. But I'm dating a guy who has kids from a previous marriage and they are his top priority, which I encourage, respect, all of that. But how much do I accept in not being that top priority? Tell me what top priority is existentially loaded.

That's a heavy way to phrase that. Give me some examples that have come up where you have been moved from perch as girlfriend, as the chief woman in his life to second or third or fourth tier. Okay, so we're both very busy, so schedules are tricky. So already time is limited and there was an instance before he was going on a work trip that we had planned to do dinner before.

And that same evening he ended up, um, having to help shuttle one of the kids, which again, I fully support that and want to encourage that. I think he's a wonderful dad. He's always there for them. But then my plans with him are always the first to get canceled. How old are these kids?

They are 10, eight and six. Okay. That's a tough age. There's a lot going on in those ages, right? Yeah. There's always a dentist appointment or a doctor appointment or a ball game or a theater thing. Like there's a lot going on.

Underneath this question, what is his relationship like with his ex-wife? Great. I mean, they co-parent extremely well, which is, you know, she had asked if he would assist with that and he said absolutely and clearly dropped everything to go do it. So is it that your second priority to her? Because the kids aren't the problem here. In that situation that you just put out there, the kids needed a ride, but mom didn't or

couldn't or had something else pop up. And so he's not bailing the kids out, he's bailing her out. Sure. I mean, so, oh, sorry, he's bailing her out. Sure. I mean, so, oh, sorry, go ahead. You go ahead, go ahead. So another example was when I was on the road and our schedules weren't matching up.

I had called to touch base when I had like an hour gap. And his response was that he was just gonna, or he texted back, which is also another thing, but he texted back that he was going to just hang out with his kids. Cause that was his evening with them. Cause I understand that time is also limited, but that one doesn't involve the mom. So that one is just, you know, he was choosing them over the quick connection with me. And I'm never going to ask him to not hang out with them or not spend time with them. But those are the things that if, if kids weren't involved,

I wouldn't be accepting this behavior. Sure. Yeah, I It feels to me like there's a lot going on here Because he can he can quote unquote. Hey, I want to be spending time with my kids But anybody can pick up a phone call real quick and say hey, what's up? Hope you had a great day doing good. Awesome I got the kids so love you. Take care. Have a great, great, great night. Anybody can do that.

So him choosing not to do that is not about the kids. He's using the kids in that process to not pick up the phone. And maybe there's a conversation you don't know about between him and his ex. It's like, hey, no other people yet. Or who knows? Who knows? I just made that up, but that's silly. And also he bailed out his ex. If they chose to get divorced and they chose to have custody arrangements

and they chose to, the kids stay here one week and here the other week or here three days a week, whatever. Then if I can't pick them up, then it's my job to hire somebody or here three days a week whatever then if I can't pick them up then it's my job to hire somebody or to call a friend or whatever and it's easy just to call my my ex but we got divorced we legally and spiritually separated right and the kids become a proxy so in one situation the kids are becoming the proxy That he didn't really want to talk to you Mm-hmm in another one the kids are the proxy like he's kind of bailing her out at the at the expense of the plans

Y'all made together Here's the frustrating reality for you None of that matters. What matters is what do you want in a relationship? Do you have the courage to be very clear about what that is? And will you sit down and give him a roadmap of what that looks like from his heart to yours,

from his head to yours? And then the scariest thing is, will he say, I can't do that right now? Mm-hmm. That's what it feels like y'all are avoiding. Well, I did after, after the canceled dinner plans, I did tell him. I would appreciate maybe even just being brought into the conversation about that being the plan switch that maybe that would help better even just being brought into the conversation about that being the plan

switch that maybe that would help better than just being told I'm off the calendar, you know, rather than saying, Hey, this has come up. Could we reschedule? Could we, or, you know, making it a conversation rather than just being told that we're no longer doing what we said we were going to. And he's very receptive to that. I mean, he acknowledges that he, you know, and apologizes that that's how he made me feel. Like he doesn't intend to do that. But I could see this replaying over and over again, next time something comes up.

Correct. How long ago was this divorce? I think like three years. Okay, it's not for us. Or I guess separated three. Okay. So I'm wondering if he has a lot of parents separate and they have a tremendous amount of guilt

in their own chest and they respond to every... My kids make 50 requests a minute when I'm at home. Hey dad, can I have a snack? Can we go fishing? Can I have a party? Are you going to get a new truck? Let's get a new hat. Like it's always that.

But if I'm operating out of a sense of guilt, then I'm just going to, I want to jump as high as I can whenever they call. Yes, that... I think that's it. Okay. Maybe have that conversation. I love you and I've seen this in you. I feel like you're walking around feeling guilty for your ex, feeling guilty for your kids, feeling guilty for everything.

Feeling guilty when I say, Hey, I want to be a part of when you cancel a plan for me, you feel guilty about that too. Like, I feel like you're just walking around guilty and it's hard to anchor into somebody who's just feeling guilty all the time. Maybe. And then how do you, I mean, how, I guess, he has to work through that. You can't solve that. You just have to decide, do I wanna date somebody who's wrestling with that? But yes, it is right. He's got- I know it's tricky. Yeah, it's very tricky.

It's very, very tricky. Especially if you like everything about him. And it might be that the most attractive thing about him is his dedication to his kids. In a world where dads just leave at the drop of a hat because they're weak and they're cowards and they're whiners, like they just leave. How amazing is it to see a good man

who he even apologizes? God, I mean, what kind of guy is this, right? And also it's right for him if he makes a commitment to his children, that you come behind that commitment. They're just, they're little bitty. If they were 22, I would be having a different conversation.

Right, right. Right? And have you ever been married before? No. Have you ever had, okay, so you have any kids of your own? No. Okay.

So it's a lot. Well, it's a lot, but hear me say, my marriage is pretty dang good. It's not perfect by a hundred miles, but it's pretty good. The conversation you and him are having right now, my wife and I have, and we only have two kids. So being in a relationship when you have three young ones running around

is just, it stress tests the relationship even if you have a great marriage. It's just hard. You though get to decide, do I wanna be in this? Hey, we got dinner plans. Well, suddenly the kid's sick. Plans are off, I gotta go home. Oh man, that sucks, I had a whole thing planned.

That's my life. Or hey, we got this thing going on this weekend that's cool. Hey, somebody just called and wants me to fly out and speak at their business, they're gonna pay this. Well, you have to go, but that sucks, right? That's our life right now. So I don't even know that it's, you throw divorce on there and you throw him starving

for oxygen because he wants to just hold his babies every night before he goes to bed and he can't legally. And so you throw that stress on top of just the stress of being with somebody who's got three young kids, even in the best of marriages, it's just hard, it's a mess. So it's a daily, weekly, monthly, but especially a daily negotiation of what does today look like. And sometimes it is you choosing,

I'm not gonna get my feelings hurt when he just cancels plans to go grab his kids. That's just how that works when you have little kids. Hey, somebody just got sick. I gotta cancel. That's me and my wife, right? And also have the conversation about the guilt. Have a conversation about these other things.

I think it's worth investing in. But thank you so, so, so much for the call. Really appreciate it. Let me know how it goes. Let me know what you decide. Cause I'm fascinated to hear what a single woman who's opting into a crazy life with three little ones, how that even goes.

When we come back, a man wonders when to share his infertility challenges in a relationship. Hey, it's Deloney for Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world. As the great philosopher, Ferris Bueller once said, life moves pretty fast. And it's true, we're all juggling work and family and a million other things.

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you get three months for free. Again, that's HALO, H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash Deloney for three months for free. Columbus, Ohio, let's talk to Michael. H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash Deloney for three months for free. Columbus, Ohio, let's talk to Michael. What's up, Michael? Hey, Dr. John, how are you doing? I'm good, brother. What's up with you, man?

So I had a cancer about three years ago and I'm in remission now. And then some of the treatment has left me unable to have my own kids. Yeah. And I just don't know as I get back into the dating world when the best time to bring that up or how to bring that up is.

The very first date. I'm totally kidding, don't do that. Don't do that. Be awesome. Hey, Michael, I can't have kids. Yeah, don't do that. Tell me what the fear of that, like there's fear underneath that question.

What's your fear? I guess if like it goes, like everything's going well and then I feel like that could just be something that torpedoes everything and then like it's out of my control so it's like, even if I have a great connection with someone that could just ruin it. So let me, you have this big neon sign in front of you. Okay, and it's easy to point at that neon sign,

but let me get underneath that sign, okay? The main question that every human being on planet Earth wants answered is now that you know all of me do you still love me? And so what I want to tell you is man you survived cancer. You're strong. You're resilient. You got to peer over the other edge, right? Over the edge of not even being here anymore.

Scary stuff. That makes you a pretty amazing guy. And I can't have kids. That's a fact about me. It's not a character indictment. That's not a character flaw. That's not, that's just a fact. I am five foot eight.

I only date tall guys. Well, I'm amazing and I'm five foot eight. You get to opt in or out of this. I've been married before. I'm an amazing woman. And I was with an abusive guy. I'm still amazing. I'm still a great person and you get to choose.

That deeper question is, now that you know me, do you still love me? And I guess I want to share with you that I've been married for 23 years now. I still ask that question. And so I think it's being comfortable with learning to be in your own skin enough to say, this is who I am. I'm not going to apologize for it. I didn't do anything wrong. In fact, I'm a survivor and I'm pretty dang strong now.

But this is a fact about me. And if somebody opts out of that, then they opt out. And yes, I could break your heart and be sad and all that. But you're asking the question as though if they find out that you were committed a bunch of felonies one time, you're in jail. But I promise, I promise, I promise I'm different. I don't want you to put yourself in that bucket.

Does that ring true? Yeah. All right, I threw a lot at you. Talk back to me. You got quiet on me. Yeah, it was just processing it all. Okay. Yeah, that's like I shared it with some of my friends.

He just kind of said the same thing, but it's just hard to come to grass with it. So can I, can I, yeah. Can I poke on that a little bit? Is that okay? Yeah. I think you're the one that hasn't grieved. I won't be able to have kids. You don't like that about you.

And you're wondering how in bloody hell could another person still love me when I'm not okay with me Yeah Did you want to have kids Yeah How many like when you just like close your eyes and have a picture of you it with gray hair kind of thinning on top How many kids are sitting around that Thanksgiving table? Like four. Okay. I can feel it inside my chest like it's slowly dropping into my guts. I'm sorry, man.

Thanks. That breaks my heart for you. Can I tell you something crazy to do? Yeah. Would you make up some imaginary names for those four kids and write them all a letter? You can just write one. Yeah, I can do that. And just say, Hey, I'm not going to get to meet you, but just say hey, I'm not gonna get to meet you but just know I Would been a great great great dad and I might adopt kids one day I might be the best foster parent you ever seen in your life

But I wanted to meet you guys and I'm not gonna get to meet you I got sick And if you're a real gangster which I don't know if I would be, but you're stronger than me, you went through cancer treatments, you might get a couple of buddies and just say this is going to be the weirdest thing I've done, but I'm going to read this out loud. I got to share this with other people. It's hard to ask somebody else to love us when we really think there's a thing about us that's unlovable. Yeah.

I don't think this makes you unlovable, but it does break my heart for you because this is a tragedy for you. It's been hard. Yeah. Will you make me a promise in your grief? It's been hard. Yeah. Will you make me a promise in your grief? Put some guardrails on your grief. I know that sounds bananas and nobody's probably ever told you that before. But make a commitment to not drink a lot.

And make a commitment to call somebody if you get sad. And make a make a commitment to call somebody if you get sad And make a commitment to not go down some pornography rabbit hole or some online gambling rabbit hole To make a commitment to head directly into the middle of this hurt Acknowledge those four kids that won't won't ever be at that kitchen table and then make space for maybe I'm gonna adopt some day I'm gonna find some woman who's just all in on me and wants to build a life with me and by the way Not if but you will you'll find that person and You'll say I can't have my own biological kids and here can I tell you how I know this One of my closest friends on the planet a couple

He had cancer He had cancer. He can't have kids. And they've become, they are, they work at a children's ranch. They take care of young people. And they are astounding foster parents. And both of them get sad every once in a while about the bio-kid thing. All of it's true. But my buddy, like most of the men in my life, married way over his skis. So I'm not just blowing smoke at you. I know this to be true because these people are in my life and I love them and they're extraordinary. And I can tell you that I don't get an opportunity very often to

That's not true I do but not as much as I would like I don't get the opportunity to talk to Like brave brave men like you so thanks for giving me opportunity to do that Welcome thanks for everything. What's your next move brother? You're welcome. Thanks for everything. What's your next move brother? um I'll uh Probably write that letter like you suggested and then uh gonna hold some my closest friends And announce to them that you're gonna do something weird, okay Yeah

That's probably expected Don't let them come over and just think they're y'all singing karaoke or Fortnite and all of a sudden you're like, I'm going to read it. A letter to four kids that don't exist. The number one voice on the planet, I think, when it comes to grieving is David Kessler. One of his cornerstone lines is, grief demands a witness. The only way your body can metabolize it is in the presence of other people. And so there's something about feeling it for real feeling it. Like it's a loss and sharing that loss with other people. And will you add one quick thing to that letter at the end

Make sure you let those Those four ghosts those four kids that we're gonna be that aren't Make sure you let them know What kind of awesome guy you're gonna be? Moving forward Because you're still gonna be that balding gray-haired 50 or 60 year old man. Give him a little glimpse into what that guy's life might look like. Who you're going to become.

Cool? Yep. It's been a high honor talking to you my brother. Thank you so much for the call. I'm really, really grateful for you. All right, don't skip this one. I wanna talk to you about my friends at Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like your digital footprint

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That's joindeleteme.com slash deloney All right, we're back. Uh, we got an am I the problem kelly 2.0 Yes, macy from orlando florida. Let's do real quick. Let's do um john from nashville john from nashville asked Ash, whoa john from nashville may may be drinking. John from Nashville asks, if I record an episode and the guy in charge of all of the cameras and lighting, if he doesn't hit record and we have to burn everything,

am I the problem or is he the problem? Nathan Keeler. No, not at all. I'm the problem. I messed up. Now I feel bad because you like take ownership because you're like a good guy. Yeah, because I'm yeah. Yeah. All right. Go to the other. Am I the Problem, Kelly 2.0. All right, Macy from Orlando, Florida writes, my husband and I have caught my mom in lies regarding what she feeds our two-year-old daughter. She's given her all the food we don't allow, especially ultra processed sugary foods.

She overall has been a big help with our busy lives, but we are now seeing our daughter hide things from us and being sneaky. Am I wrong for not letting my mom watch or stay alone with our daughter anymore? Well, I got hemorrhoids now. Thanks for this question. Just inside, wanted out on this one. Oh, geez. Here's the thing. I'm all about eating healthy. I guess there's just context here.

Let your kid's grandparent spoil your kid for crying out loud. I know it's cool to be this like over the top, like I will never, dude, I want my parents to spoil my kids. I want somebody to be like, I know you'll never eat a Kit Kat in your house, I got you. I want that. And I don't like that. I don't give them Kit Kats, but I kind of like that they have some understanding that moderation

and fun and whatever is good. I'm guessing that they are hiding things, not just because of the food, but because of the environment of the house, which is they are rigid, this never is inflexible ever, and the kids are learning at a very young age, whoa, whoa. So that'd be my guess. If on the other hand, if your kids have food allergies, if you have some very strong moral

or religious or whatever convictions about food and your mom is lying to you, then she's probably going to lie about other things, about what they're watching, about how much time they're on screens. And so I think, yes, you're right to have some concerns there. I like to always ask myself, am I putting people in a position where they have to lie to me?

I wanna take ownership of that first and say, am I being unreasonable in my request for things? And then am I playing 20 questions or playing gotcha to try to figure it out? If I'm creating an environment where I'm basically encouraging someone to lie to me, that's on me. If somebody is consciously listening to my values and the things are important to me and going around

and then lying to me, then yes, I'm gonna protect my kids. That's what I would say. So I need more context to say who's the problem here, but that's just my unfiltered opinion on that What do you think? Who's the problem there Kelly? This is this is hard I grew up with an almond mom and so it's an almond mom a mom that is Very vocal of like foods that you should and should not eat It's very vocal of foods that you should and should not eat. So I don't eat fettuccine Alfredo because I was told it was really bad for me.

Got you. It is delicious. I'll have to try it. It gives me the GAS, but it is delicious. I think this is all within moderation. I think when you go to grandma's house, like you're obviously going to eat cake and like have fun. And like, you're building those memories.

But I think like there's a proper way to teach your kids about food and when it's just restrict, restrict, of course they're going to be hiding it and indulging in it. And so I think it's, how do you approach the conversation of like, yes, and. Yeah, I love that. And if you're, I guess for all parents Be very clear about the hills you're gonna die on

Because if you die on every hill then either a nobody will watch your kids nobody will want to be in your life or Everyone's gonna be just telling you what you want to hear. So here's in my house, we eat healthy almost all the time. And I grew up, I had locks on the pantry when I was a kid. There were locks on the pantry. I was maniacal about eating, right? But there are locks on the pantry. I don't want my kids to have that environment. I want them to know there's some candy up there

and one a week is what we do in this house It's just who we are. So it's not never never never never and Also when I pull my wrappers out of my pockets my kids can see they know Oh dad's had a crazy day Right, just like Kelly 1.0 can just like all like my management everybody knows like oh if John's eating candy like oh He's tired or he's not doing well, right? I my kids can see that right and so I wanted them to know that. But here's a hill I will die on. If you hand my kid an unobstructed cell phone, they're not coming to your house. Friends, I don't care who you are, right? If you just hand my kid like, ah, it's just pornography

is fine. Your parents are over dramatic They were never gonna so but there is a hill we will die on there's one or two hills if you are If you're a racist idiot, my kids not gonna come to your house I won't have them there because I don't want them in that world So there's a couple of hills I'll die on but would you down every hill just cheese Louise And so find some things that your parents can spoil your kids on. We're gonna stay up too late.

We're gonna have pizza. We're gonna whatever those things are. And you teach your kids, not always, but sometimes. Right? And yeah, if it's just restrict, restrict, restrict, restrict, human nature is I will find a way around that because I want to know what that is. And that it doesn't mean, everything, everything, everything.

Some boundaries are good. I don't know, dude. Still, this episode's brought to you by Preparation H. Cause, geez Louise. Love you guys. Candy's okay, sometimes. Bye.