The Dr. John Delony Show - Am I to Blame for His Depression?

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

On this episode, we hear about: -       A woman wondering if she’s to blame for her ex’s depression -       A father unsure how to connect with his oldest daughter -       A recovering alcoholic still struggling with the consequences of his actions   Offers From Today's Sponsors 10% off your first month of therapy at BetterHelp!   3 free months of Hallow  25% off Thorne orders  20% off Organifi with code DELONY 30% off all Helix Sleep products Next Steps 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or click here! 📚 Get Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Take the Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation  Listen to More From Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. He told me he had to increase his depression medication because our relationship is so awful. Jane, is that true? Yeah. No, no, no. I know he said that. I'm asking you. Is that true? Our relationship was bad. Jane, is that true? No. No.

No. Hey, everybody. This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so, so glad that you're with us talking about your emotional and mental health, your marriage, your kids, your neighbor that won't shut up, your quasi-oppressive boss, like Kelly, like whatever you got going on in your world, we're here to talk about it. You've been struggling with something for a long, long time or something just popped up.

We're here. And here's my promise. I'll sit with you like I've been doing for over 20-something years, sitting with hurting people, and we're going to figure out what to do next and it's not always pretty and sometimes it's gritty and sometimes it is uncomfortable for everybody and that's where the healing is on the other side of that hang on the side of that hurt on the side of that pain and most of us spend our whole life avoiding it and in this crazy world we've created for ourselves, we can for a while, but not here. Here we go right through it, and I'll walk with you.

If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. Let's go out to Baltimore, Maryland, and talk to not-so-plain Jane. What's up, Jane? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm all right.

I'm really nervous. I'm nervous, too. We'll be nervous together. We'll be nervous together. What's up? So my question is about, am I responsible for anybody else's things or depression, specifically my ex-husband.

Tell me more about that. So he was military for 17 years. We married very young at 21. I joined him, we married mostly because he went into the military. The first two years were really good. And then he was in a really high-level secret job at the military. And he just started going inward, and his depression started getting higher. I know he's always dealt with depression, and I was a stay-at-home mom for a lot of that. And then, I don't know, our marriage started crumbling, and at one point he told me he had to increase

his depression medication, um, because our relationship is so awful. And, um, Jane, is that true? Yeah, no, no, no, no. I know he said that. I'm asking you, is that true? Um, our relationship was bad I don't think Jane I was is that true no no you've known this man since he was a kid since before he was

allowed to drink beer he's wrestled with these demons for a long time right yeah and I said all the, secrets will kill you. And his job became keeping some of the hardest secrets to keep on planet Earth.

And he was a military guy. And he was brass. And he probably stopped working out as much. And he probably stopped hanging out with buddies that weren't military guys. And he probably got disconnected from you romantically, sexually, like laughingly, right? Just relationally. Got disconnected from you romantically, sexually, like laughingly, right?

Just relationally. Got disconnected from his kids. No, that's not true. You didn't make your husband have to increase his depression medication. I'm sorry that that was used as a weapon against you. Were you mean to him? No, I mean, I know there were times when I was petty

just because. That was awesome. Like, no, I mean, I mean. Yeah. Tell me about it. Well, the only way that I could get attention

from him was to be angry. Okay. You've been lonely a long time, haven't you? Yes. How old are your kids? I have a 12-year-old and a 14-year-old. How are they doing?

Actually, they're doing really well. Okay. This is the first year that they're really doing incredibly well with socially and going between the two houses and just watching them blossom into amazing people. That's awesome. That means you did a pretty amazing job when they were young keeping things together, huh? Yeah. When you were a lonely base mom, enraged and scared and stuck in a house and you were not even allowed

to talk to your own husband because of national security. Exactly. Yeah. So how's your co-parenting going? It's okay. He doesn't listen to a word I say, but that's to be expected.

He doesn't what? He doesn't listen. a word I say, but that's to be expected. He doesn't what? He doesn't listen. You know, we try to decide on things that we're going to work on with the kids. If there's something big that we need to work on. And, you know, I, for some reason, expect that he's going to work with me, but it's always been his way. Sure. Always going to be his way. Okay.

But, you know, we get along better as co-parents. Yeah. So y'all are doing this best you can. You're acting like adults, which is good. Yes, we are. Kids come first. That's amazing. Good for you.

So he's gone, and the smoke is cleared, and your marriage is nothing. Your life at 40 is nothing like you thought it was going to look. Yes. And objectively, you've got a somewhat adult acting co-parent. Your kids are starting to settle into their new world and they're doing great. Why are you still haunted? Why are you still waking up every day asking yourself, what did you do?

I think because I'm just scared that it's going to happen again. Yeah. My dad walked out also on my mom when I was about 12. And you promised yourself you wouldn't do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw my mom fall apart when my dad walked out.

Yeah. I really didn't want to do that for my kids. I keep my parenting skills together, but everything else feels like it's falling apart. Let's be specific. What do you think is falling apart? My ability to keep house and keep friendships and things like that. Okay. Tell me about your friendships. I have one really good friend

who lives in Seattle. Oh. That's on the other side of the planet. Like literally. Tell me about some friends you have there in Maryland. I have one friend I see

who's a single male. He's gay, so it's not, just no relationship or anything, but we're... So once a week, will you make a coffee date with this guy? And y'all go hang out? Yeah. Put on the calendar? Yeah. And give him the great blessing of

saying, I'm gonna start intentionally coming out of my shell. And I need you to be there for me every Wednesday morning at 8 o'clock after I drop off the knuckleheads. Okay. Is that fair? Yeah. Do you have another friend you could invite to this get-together? Two friends, three friends?

Yeah, they're just really difficult to thin down. Okay. If you've got one anchor then you can have a rotating cadre of weirdos they'll come when they can come okay and and i say weirdos they might be they might be parents they might be have jobs they may have whatever right i was supposed to have lunch with my buddy the other day um dr con Conway. And he's one of my closest friends out here. And my show ran late and I was late and ended up, our lunch got cut. Anyway, life happens.

But man, if you have one person that you know is going to be there on time, is going to show up with you, sounds like this guy is awesome. Yeah. He's a good friend. I've known him since college. Can you say everything that's going on most of it yeah nope

nope you heard me say earlier secrets will kill you you watch them do that to your husband you gotta find a place where you can be open and honest

yeah a lot of it revolves around him I'll be honest revolves around your husband no a lot of it revolves around him i'll be honest revolves around your husband no a lot of our conversation oh gotcha around my friend okay we'll tell him it's time for you to him start listening to you you've put your time if he's a great friend you can say i put my time in and yeah compound interest roi it's my turn okay all right and listen to me you've been through hell if you the thought of meeting

somebody else and not wanting to be alone forever your body's going to sound every alarm it has because its job is not to keep you joyful and happy its job is to keep you alive and so when you feel anxious when you meet somebody or you talk to somebody or even the thought of somebody, yes, just smile and go, yep, you're trying to take care of me, but I'm doing this, right? Like you just have to let your body know I'm driving. I'm driving. Thank you for trying to keep me safe. And you've kept me safe for a while, but I'm driving. And when it doesn't want to get up and go for a walk in the morning, it just wants to stay in bed

say thank you for trying to take care of me because the world does appear safer under these covers but i'm gonna go for a walk i'm not fighting my body anymore i'm gonna be curious about it and i'm gonna go do my next thing can i tell you something that happened in my driveway and it's kind of a similar experience um a, a guy, there's some construction going on down the, down the holler as they call it down where I live out in the woods. Some, somebody bought a huge place and they're building this big fancy place out there. And one of the, um, one of the, the concrete guys took a wrong turn and came up all the way up my driveway, but he had a flat tire and I have a gravel driveway and he just totally

destroyed the driveway going up. And then he had to back this trailer all the way out and just created chaos. And I was out of town. I was at a speaking event. So I called, um, my wife sent a picture and she couldn't, she was trying to take the kids to school as a whole thing was just a big

mess. She couldn't barely get down the driveway. Um, cause he'd carved it up so wild. And then we've had some crazy rains over the last week or two. So I just reached out to the person who was the project manager at this house

and said, hey man, I need to get the number to this dude. So he came out, he waited one week, waited two weeks and then he came out this past Sunday. And he rolls up to my house in his backhoe or his front loader. And I'm wearing

coveralls cause I'm doing a bunch of yard work on the farm. And I greeted him and the dude got up and was enraged at me. How dare I call the boss? How dare I do this? How dare I do that? And I was looking around like, hey, you're at my house. Like, what are you doing, man? And I had this moment where I chose kindness. And I said, sir,

my wife's right here. You're not going to talk to us like this. You're not going to talk to me like this in front of her. You tore my driveway and I just need someone to fix it. And you can read my text messages, man. I was super kind to you.

Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody screws up. But then you get this thing taken care of. And he literally exhaled and dropped his shoulders and said, I'm sorry, I'm mad at this other dude. He keeps sending us the wrong address. And it turned into this compassion. And he gave me his cell number and said, man, I'm going to fix this.

If there's any other problems, you call me. And we shook hands and he left. And normally old John would have gotten mad, right? And would have had to buck up to the dude who drove up on his property. I just chose kindness this time. I didn't fight him. I just went around it. I just went around it. And at the end of the day, here's what I wanted. I wanted a driveway that worked for my wife and my kids. And that's what I got now. He did a great job. And for you, what do we want? I want peace in your life.

I want you to be able to hang out with your friends. I want you, when you feel overwhelmed, you've got a couple of people you can text. Are you doing okay financially? I actually have been unemployed for a few months but I just got a job Congratulations How is the state of your finances? Are you in the hole financially? I still have savings luckily

Okay I'm going to do you a couple of I'm going to hook you up with a couple of things launching you into this new the sun's coming up, Jane, okay? But you're going to have to make some choices to move your body. You're going to have to make some choices to have some friends and meet those appointments. You're going to have to make some choices to get up in the morning, okay?

Yeah. You're going to have to make some choices that when that thought pops into your head about your husband, your ex-husband, you're going to stop and say, he doesn't get a vote. I'm not thinking about him today. And the more you practice that, the more the default setting will begin to arc towards his voice not being in your home anymore. Because he left.

And he blamed you out the door. Okay? Yeah. Did you play a role in your marriage falling apart? Probably. Was it all your fault no is your husband's decision to take the job that he took and not deal with his challenges your responsibility no it's his set that brick down and don't ever pick that brick up again okay you promise okay yeah stop carrying it and say it out loud. Am I carrying that?

Am I carrying that? You're not carrying it. No, I'm not carrying it. It's not mine to carry, man. No. Yeah.

And then call your buddy. You and him go hang out. Call some other knuckleheaded friends of yours and y'all get together. And just revel in the fact that you held it together for those boys in the years when things got scary. And they're doing great right now.

And be grateful that you and your ex-husband can be adults and co-parent the best as you possibly can. It's awesome. Okay? Here's what I'm going to hook you up with. I'm going to send you both of my books, and I want you to read both of them, okay? Okay. Own your past. Change your future. It's about what happens when things go sideways and what you can do next, but especially the stories that you tell yourself over and over

again. And that's what you're drowning in. And then it's going to, the next book is building a non-anxious life. And I want this to be your roadmap for building a home where it feels, ah, when you walk in the door and a home filled with laughter and a home filled with teenage boys making fart noises and you making one back, right? Yeah. You know, blow your boys' minds. You blow a good one on your arm and shock them back, right? And a life worth having friends. I'm also going to hook you up with, I want you to watch, I work here at Ramsey Solutions.

I want you to watch the Financial Peace University courses. It's about handling your money. Okay? You're going to be on your own now. Yeah. And I'm going to send you the EveryDollar premium app for a year.

Okay? And that's going to let you track your money. You got a job now. You stop living off savings. You start tracking your money, taking care of it, and it's going to give you overall peace in your home. Does that sound good? Yeah. All right. Hang on the line. We're going to hook you up. Jane, I'm proud of you. Proud of you. When you go to war with a lion, you come out and you're scratched up and you're

exhausted and you can't move. In the next couple of months you have to heal and you're sore. And then one day you open one of your eyes and the sun's back up. And then you realize, oh, I got to stand back up. I can't just lay here. And you're doing it. You're standing up. And it feels like everything's coming apart, but it's not. One step at a time, one step at a time, one step at a time. First call, when we get off this phone call, I want you to call your buddy, and you and him are gonna start hanging out. We'll put it on the calendar.

Then we're gonna start changing everything. So proud of you, Jay. We'll be right back. It's time to talk about Organifi. All right, here's one of my main life goals. I want to be as healthy as possible for as long as possible. I want to be that old semi balding guy in the back of the mosh pit. And I also want to be that old guy dancing with his beautiful wife into my 80s.

And I want to be able to roll around with my grandkids in some WWE style wrestling match into my 90s. And that's why right now I exercise, I work on my friendships, and I try to eat and drink things that only have safe, high-quality, high-integrity ingredients. And this is why I love Organifi. They're incredibly selective about what goes into their whole food blends. And Organifi gives you ingredients with integrity, plant-based, certified organic, vegan, dairy-free, soy-free, and glyphosate residue-free. By the way,

that's a pesticide you don't want anywhere near you. And it's simple to get the health benefits with Organifi. You just mix with water or your favorite beverage and drink it down. You can take their green juice first thing in the morning to balance stress and get ready for your day. And you can take Organifi red juice in the afternoon or before a workout for natural sustained energy and endurance. And I love my happy drops every day for natural mood support with saffron extract. Go to Organifi.com slash Deloney right now to save 20% off at checkout with code Deloney. That's Organifi, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash Deloney and code Deloney for 20% off. Hey, y'all hear me talk about my friends, Doug and Justin and Adam and Sal all the time. But I feel like it's important to repeat this because I get so many calls and questions about weight loss and nutrition. My favorite fitness and health resource

by far is the Mind Pump podcast. Go check it out. The hosts communicate fitness and health and fat loss the right way. And they're the guys I reached out to behind closed doors with my cell phone. I trust these guys. They've been working with people for over two decades and they combine their experience with the best current science. They're hilarious, super offensive, so don't have kids in the room when you listen to it, but they're great, great friends. They're great dads. They're great husbands and they help with the best information. And it's not nonsense, influencery garbage. It's the right stuff to help you over the long term. Please go check out my buddies at MindPump. They're mindpumppodcast.com, or you can get it wherever you get podcasts.

It's worth a listen. And you can go through their library. It's the workout I used this morning. I used from their MAPS program. Go check out my buddies at mindpumppodcast.com. All right, let's roll out to Brandon in Niagara Falls, Canada. What's up, Brandon? Hey, Dr. John, how are you? Good, man. What's up? Okay, so my question today, I guess, is a little twofold. So I so I have an eight year old daughter and a two year old daughter, um, my eight year old from a previous relationship and I'm struggling with, um, getting the same level of, I don't know if intimacy or affection is the right word between, um, the two girls. I girls. I was around a lot more for my second than my first

and I'm struggling to get the same level of attachment to my first that I have with my second. Can I be super honest with you in this call? Is that cool, man? Alright. I'm not going to be very nice. Is that okay? I'll be nice. I'll be as kind

as I can. I'll be kind, not nice. Where were you with the first kid? So I was in a mix of going back to school and joining the military. Okay. And how old was your eight-year-old? It was he or she? It was she. How old was she when you started going back to school and joined the military? So I was midway through my first year when she was born. So I wasn't really around for the first two years. Why'd you choose that?

I think I had told myself at the time that it was because I wanted to put myself in the position to be able to support my family. But I had a full-time job as a dean of students at a law school, and I was a full-time doctoral student when my daughter was born. Where were you? In all honesty, looking back on it, I have a feeling that it was more of...

No feelings. Just talk straight to me, man. Well, at the time, I was 18, so I feel like I was running away from the situation more than using it as an excuse to not have to be there at first. Excellent. How old are you now? 28. Okay. You got to forgive your 18-year-old self. Was that the right thing to do? Absolutely not Were you a kid? Yes I think every time you look at that girl you get haunted by what 18 19 and 20 year old you didn't do and then you Went and joined the military, which is good. But man, you you missed your whole kid's life

And it's not that eight-year-old's job To bring you intimacy like a cuddly two-year-old's going to you're the dad. You're the adult. It's your job To connect with that kid. Okay? If you get nothing else from this phone call, brother, you got to let the 18-year-old off the hook. This 18-year-old, it's done, it's done, and you cannot expect that eight-year-old to come to you.

It has to be in reverse. Okay? Yeah. Is that fair? That's fair. I have an eight-year-old daughter that really struggles with me too. And the part I didn't finish about what I said about when she was born, being a full-time employee and a full-time doctoral student, is I let my studies get in the way too, except that was in my thirties. Okay? And it haunts me. And I cannot blame my daughter for that and you can't blame yours. Okay?

Is that fair? That's fair. Okay. Exhale on that for a second. You have a two-year-old now? Yeah. If you could go back and do it over again with your eight-year-old, what would you do differently?

I'd be there from the start. Okay. Then let's start being there right now. What's custody look like? It's week by week. So this is my week with her. Week on, week off. All right.

When you say you struggle with intimacy with her, what does that mean? Does she not want to be around you? Does she just want to hug you? Or when you hug her, it just feels not right? Tell me what that means. So I make an attempt to every Sunday, me and her just go out and spend a couple hours together,

just the two of us. And she loves being around me, and I love being around her. It's just, I can tell the, I can tell the feeling. I don't know. It's just different. It's not.

You're a guy she knows. You're not dad, right? Yeah. Okay. You have to trust me that that can change but it's going to take investment on your part, okay?

A couple hours on a Sunday is not going to cut it. Yeah. Okay? Hey, I forgive you. She'll forgive you. You have to forgive you. If every time you see that sweet little girl, you think of your own failure,

she's going to feel that, and she's going to spend her whole life trying to solve that problem. And I think at some point when she's 16 or 18, you have a conversation. Say, I had you when I was 18 years old, man. I totally screwed it up. You'll have that conversation. Not now.

She's eight. Here's a picture in my head, okay? When you have her on your weeks, I want you to give her a dedicated morning for breakfast. I want you to take her out somewhere. Do you have a place where you could take her out in Niagara Falls? Yeah.

My son and I ate breakfast inside of a gas station in rural Tennessee this morning. He had biscuits and gravy. I mean, he literally took four years off his life with the biscuits and gravy thing he had today. It doesn't have to be fancy. It can be. It'd be awesome if it could be, if you can afford it and all that, but it doesn't have to be fancy. But once a week is her special morning that you wake up early. I cut my workout short this morning. You figure it out. It's breakfast day. It could be Tuesday. It could be Wednesday. It could be whenever day.

Okay? Okay. I want you to have a weekly, once a week dance night where you turn the music on too loud. I know you have a two-year-old. The two-year-old can just watch. I want you all just to fling-fling around for a couple of songs.

If you're like me, I can only last a few songs because I'm so out of shape. Actually, I'm in pretty good shape. I just can't dance like that. I want you to fling-flang around with this little girl, okay? Okay. And let her know, dance night,

what song do you want to listen to? And you get a song, and she gets a song. That way you can teach her what real good music is. Okay? Yeah, absolutely. And then maybe a, this is like a within reason, but like a yes day.

Maybe Sunday afternoon is your yes day. And of course it's within reason. And the first couple of times, see if she catches on. When she says, can we go? You go, yep. And then go, can I get a, yep. And here's what we're doing.

We're not trying to bribe her. We're not trying to poison her with junk food or anything like that. I just want her when she thinks a dad, her shoulders to drop. And you're probably like most men. You're trying to make up the missed time with a bunch of life lessons and a bunch of look like this and dress like this. And don't do that. We don't need that right now.

Okay. She needs her dad. Is that fair? with a bunch of life lessons and a bunch of look like this and dress like this and don't do that. We don't need that right now, okay? She needs her dad. Is that fair? Yeah, that's fair. Can you do those three things? I can absolutely do those three things. All right, I got one more for you. It's going to be the worst one of all.

Okay. Every night she stays with you? When she goes to put her head on her bed, on her pillow, I want there to be a card from dad on that pillow. And it could be a funny drawing, but it has to have the words I love you in that thing. Dear, daughter's name,

I love you, dad. Not love dad, but I love you, dad. And I want her to wake up when she's 18 and have 10 years of every other week's worth of letters, little notes from her dad. Okay? Okay. We're going to slowly build this thing back. And I want you to treat your new wife as amazing as possible so that this 8-year-old girl gets a picture of what marriage is supposed to look like and love is supposed to look like. And don't, you're building a relationship

because you're going to have some tough times in teenage years, okay? Things will be tough. And that's okay. That's part of it. But you got to forgive 18-year-old you. Can you say that out loud? I forgive myself.

I forgive 18-year-old Brandon. I can say it, but I don't know if I believe it. All right, before this day is over I want you to go find a mirror and put your hand

in your chest and I want you to eyeball yourself for 10 seconds and don't say a word and then look at yourself and drop your shoulders and say the words

I forgive you my daughter deserves all of us now because if you don't do that you're choosing to poison the present with stuff you did in the past

I think she's done being poisoned fair? because if you don't do that, you're choosing to poison the present with stuff you did in the past. I think she's done being poisoned. Fair? Fair enough. Okay. The path through is to forgive yourself and stop beating up Brandon for stuff 18-year-old Brandon did. We all did stupid stuff when we were 18, 19, 20.

Every one of us, myself included. Thank God I didn't have a kid when I was 18. Okay? If you begin to court your daughter's heart, not in a romantic way, but in a, I will always be here and I will never leave your side,

you're going to find your heart along the way. Okay? She's worth that and so are you. 28-year-old Brandon. You a good dad now to that two-year-old Brandon. You a good dad now to that two-year-old? Yeah. How are you a good dad?

Well, it's been, it's been great being able to do bed times with both of them and it's been great

being able to take both of them to the park and since I work from home, I have the blessing that I get to spend every day with the two-year-old playing games while working.

Awesome. This is what changing your family tree looks like. Most people get so wound up and covered up and weighted down with shame from crap they did in the past that they can't adjust it and make it different in the future. That's not you. Tells me you've become a man of character and I'm proud of you. Right?

Yeah. You treat that two-year-old's mom right? Yep. Is she your wife? Have you married her? Yeah, we've been married for five years now. Okay. You honor that woman and take care of it?

Take care of her? Absolutely. Awesome. You honor that woman and take care of it? Take care of her? Absolutely. Awesome. You've become a man of character. That's amazing. Now, let 18-year-old you off the hook. If an 18-year-old drove by your house and said something stupid and you had a hard talk with him and he's like, I'm sorry, sir, you'd forgive him, right?

Yeah. Of course you would. Forgive Brandon. Cool? Cool. Go chase that eight-year-old's heart and find yours in the process. I'll say it again. She's worth it. You're worth it too, my brother. Proud of you. Proud of you, man. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families.. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and

masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy.

You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. And let's roll out to Alaska. What's that, Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure? Going to military school in Alaska. Let's talk to Eric. What's up, brother? Hey, John. Good morning.

How are you? Good, man. How are you? Doing pretty good. What's up? Long story short, I'm a recovering alcoholic. Four years sober now. Hey, can I stop for a second?

Can we stop? Yes. That's incredible, dude. That's a harder adventure. That's a harder thing to go through than most people walking around listening to this will ever experience good on you man has it been easier has it been pretty hellacious the first oh gosh six months or so were pretty hellish but um gosh i mean the last two years or so i felt like i've been a groove, but I'm proud of you.

You know that. Thank you. I mean, that's kind of brought me to now though, John is, you know, I realized a few weeks ago that in the process of trying to juggle everything that comes with sobriety longterm and kind of untangling all of the messes that, you know, we make for ourselves when we're not doing so hot in that world, I've kind of forgotten about me. And I have no idea how to make amends with myself. And I have no idea how to do that at the same time that I'm untangling a pretty significant rat's nest of debt. I mean, I've got about $116,000 now worth of debt,

most of that student loans. And I'm following the baby steps. I'm on baby step two. I've got a proper snowball listed out, but I'm sitting here and every day it's, how do I forgive myself for financial mistakes, things I did to myself, consequences of addiction? So how do I balance all this? How do I, how do I get into a place now that I'm there of

working on me and forgiving me? Man, it's hard. Cause on the outside, I'm seeing you, I'm listening to you, man. And you're doing it like you're four years sober. Um, you're doing it like you're four years sober um you're living in alaska which has a high rate of addiction it's tough there's lots of there's lots of darkness and lots of coal and lots of just stuck inside right so um you're doing it and now you're working through you've got the what's that old uh paul thomas anderson quote you may be through the past but the past isn't through with you right you've got a you've got dollar amounts letting you know we're not done with you yet, right? Still paying stuff off. So I'm watching you do it in real time.

I've actually first kind of wandered through this on accident with folks coming out of AA, which is we thought this whole thing would, quote unquote unquote feel a certain way when we got sober. And what we realized is we had to feel everything. And that wasn't what, that wasn't what we thought it was going to be going through. We knew we were feeling terrible all the time drinking and we were making bad decisions and yada, yada, yada. We thought it was going to quote unquote feel better on the backend. And it does for a while, right? When you get sober and the light comes on and it feels great and amazing, but then reality starts to hit, right? So I'm watching you do it and I'm, I'm, I'm pretty, I'm not pretty. I'm, I'm amazed. I'm impressed. But underneath the alcohol and underneath whatever numbing agents you have underneath all the debt and underneath all the schooling, all that stuff, you don't like you why what happened i've been trying to figure that out i mean you've done a lot of a lot of time in in therapy throughout the years and i've always dealt with you know

major depressive disorder to some degree and as far back as you know being being really, really young, I can remember struggling with it, but for like a key indicator or a key kind of moment, I, I, I don't know where it is, but it's somewhere in there and I cannot find it. So I've been really, really, really trying to hammer on that and figure out what the answer to that question is. And I think that's part of what bogs me down is that it almost seems like there's this massive weight of trying to manage the unknown. So stop. So stop. Your whole tenor changed talking about that. So I tell people this all the time when they're dealing with trauma, they know it's there and they know they've wrestled with it and they can't put their finger on it and they can't stop Because you end up getting stuck I love the words it's a it's a it's a rat's nest, right? I keep having in my mind

I don't know if you're a fisherman But you you throw out like a open-faced reel and you don't put your thumb down and all the way and it just It turns into a big bird's nest. It's a mess And at some point you got to cut the line and it just it turns into a big bird's nest it's a mess and at some point you got to cut the line and pull new fresh line out like i don't know how to untangle that i'm going to move past it because what because here's the deal eric what's your what's your other option just to sit in it right exactly exactly and so i would love do you so we often think of when we go in the past and and i care less and less as I'm getting older and sitting with more people.

I care less and less about the things that happened. They're important. But I know enough about the literature on memory that our memories aren't great, right? I'm more curious about somebody who may have told you you're not enough or you're not worth something. Because somewhere that story got planted in you. And maybe it was just, you just were shot out of a cannon and people in your family struggle with depression.

You struggle with depression and you just kind of laid low for a while and alcohol made that go away. But do you know somebody who may have planned or people or ideas, or did you grow up in the home of also somebody who struggled with addiction who planted that idea in your head that you just kind of suck?

Because that seems to be the – that's the ticker tape underneath the movie that's your life, right? Yeah, that's a really good point because, you know, I've had some death in my family over the last couple of years. And someone in my family who passed who I wasn't super close to, he was a 40 year alcoholic and pretty aggressive cancer on top of his body, just given out on him, took him. And yeah, there are those underlying tones of, of yeah, just that not being good enough from when I was really, really young. And I think that that's always kind of resonated with me. And yeah, when I had that death in the family, maybe a year and a half ago, fellow alcoholic,

that hit me really hard because it was like, that could have happened to me. But at the same time I was, you know, grieving loss of a family member and it's just always been this strange gray area. It's both and, right? And that, to me, is one of the beautiful things about AA is that it's the both and, right? Like, alcohol worked for a while. Probably kept you alive. What did it keep you safe from?

Probably me. Yeah? Yeah? Just feeling like, uh, feeling like what? like what i don't take that from you feeling like what it was a weird it was a weird place it was like you didn't want to live but you didn't want to die sure just want to stop hurting yeah if you grow up a little kid surrounded by people struggling with addiction you're wondering every minute of every day, what am I doing wrong? Because I see them right here and they're not there in front of me. And if you grow up in the home of parents who are dealing with loved ones who are struggling with addiction, they're busy doing other things. And your little kid, it's like growing up with a

parent who's stuck on their iPhone all the time. Your little kid wondering, what's wrong with me? Why is uncle whoever so much more important than me? And when you're seven or six or three or nine or 14, you don't, the world kind of does revolve around you, right? And, but then you grow up to be 19 and you start to tell new stories,

which is, oh, they didn't want to be around me because something's wrong with me. And that's a, that's a weight that nobody can bear. Nobody can carry that. And alcohol makes that hurt go away for a bit. It kills you, right? Yeah.

What was your moment? Oh, gosh. I mean, I'll never forget it. I was drinking 12 to 15 shots a day. And I remember I was hammered at four in the morning and couldn't sleep. And I was sweating my brains out and just so upset with myself that I had gotten to the place I had. And I had had a lot of close calls what's it going to be? And I went and I just looked in the mirror because I was going to just go parade myself in the mirror. And I made eye contact with myself and just gave myself the most objective, compassionate look I'd probably ever given myself. And I just lost it. And I was like, you know, this is it. Like, if I die trying, I die trying.

Getting out of it. It I was like, you know what, this is it. If I die trying, I die trying. Getting out of it. It's like, I'm done. And yeah, that was February 10th, 2020. And I drank since. Little did you know the world was going to set on fire. Yeah. Nice time to stop, dude. I know.

I had to make a joke there because I got choked up the idea of you standing in front of a mirror and finally seeing yourself for who you are not for who your mom said you were who your dad

didn't say you were who your uncles didn't say you were your teachers that wrote you off the kids that made fun of you you finally saw you

for you yeah it was definitely unexpected yeah and I need you to hear me that's how the rest of us see it too man so the you for you. Yeah, it was definitely unexpected. Yeah. And I need you to hear me. That's how the rest of us see it too, man. So the challenge for you is,

number one, is you have to continue staying plugged in. You've got a lifelong history of depression, a lifelong history of suicidal ideation. You have to stay plugged in with somebody. Okay. Professionally. Okay.

And I know you don't want to, but thank God we live in this tiny little sliver of history. And it's not going to be forever. But when you're running low, I want you to have a touch point. Okay? I do. Okay. I have that, and I do this for a living.

And I'm just super grateful that I have that person that I can reach out to and that will see me in a pretty short notice, and I can have somebody to do life with. And the other side of it is, I want you to stop. This is going to sound crazy. I want you to stop feeling so much, and I want you to start doing, and I want you to keep track of the things you're doing towards the goals.

And here's what I hope happens over time. I want you to set up of the things you're doing towards the goals. And here's what I hope happens over time. I want you to set up a series of goals like you have. And normally I don't say start with goals, but I think that's important here because your identity is kind of shot. I want you to begin to say like, I'm going to go this week and I'm going to write down five positive things about me. Five things I love about Eric, that Eric's doing good in the world. And you've probably heard me say this, but this therapist that I talked to, she challenged me to put my fist in my chest and look in the mirror and say the words, I love this guy 10 times a day. And I couldn't do it at first. It was embarrassing. I couldn't do it. I was a grown man. I couldn't do it.

I felt dumb. But I had to get to that place where, like that moment you had in the mirror, I just had to be compassionate with this guy. I'm not a bad guy, right? And I want you to make tiny, tiny, tiny, you're on, for those of you who don't know what baby steps are, it's following the Ramsey solutions, get out of debt plan, which is amazing.

And you'll find a lot of freedom on the back end of this, I promise you. But you got a big mountain to climb. How much have you paid off so far? About $16,000 that I've paid off here in the last year or so. Dude, that's amazing. What's your annual salary? It's just under $70,000 right now.

Okay. What do you do for a living? Work in the transportation industry. Okay you like it yeah it's fast paced it's rewarding and it's fun to see you know folks come up to the state and get the alaska experience for a summer and all that that's really rewarding to me so okay do you have ways that you can earn money on the side for a year uh in the in the off season i can like in the winter months i I can find the side gig, yeah. Okay. I want to challenge you to see if you hit the gas,

even when you wake up in the morning and you feel low, or you feel like, that's going to be your signal from the guy on the podcast to pick up that stupid journal you have by your bed and write five things that Eric is doing good in the world. And if you say, I don't have five things, I want you to hear my voice and say you're lying yes you are

and you can put five things a day five things i'm grateful for five things i'm doing in the world i'm moving forward i'm moving from um and then i want you to have some little wins man i want you to make a weekly tally on how much you're paying off on this stuff. Sometimes when you owe 118 grand and it's all in student loans, it just feels like you're chipping away at an iceberg, right? And you got to break it up into myself, I made one of those little construction paper chains that little kids make like when they're going on a ski trip. And I tore one off every time I made a payment. And I hung it in my bedroom. It was the least romantic thing you could possibly hang in your bedroom. But I hung it up in there because I had to see it every day. And both as a motivator and both as I saw that thing over time just get shorter and shorter and shorter.

It was amazing. Let me ask you this. Do you have any one thing that's weighing on your soul that you did during your drinking years that you can't let go of? I mean, it's more oriented to what I did to myself. I mean, there is a phase of self-harm in there on top of those suicide attempts and that period of time. Cutting, jumping, hitting, what was it? Burning. Burning, okay.

Yeah, so it's strange now how I can go two weeks, three weeks without even thinking about it. And then other times it just smashes me like a ton of bricks. Yeah. And when that smashes you, what does it smash you with? Embarrassment? Just like sadness. Like how? Like why?

Who was I? Yeah. It's the sadness of it. That's the hardest part. Can I give you one more cheesy thing to do? Yeah. When you get smashed in your own words, by the way, I want you to stop calling it smashed.

It's just those ghosts show up, man. I want you to, this is going to sound so lame, dude. Do this by yourself. Don't do it out in public. But I want you to embrace yourself. I want you to put one hand on one tricep and one hand on the other,

like you're kind of hugging yourself. And I want you just to exhale, man. Say that kid was going through hell and thank God we're here now. Look how strong I am now. If you indulge that wave when it hits you, what was that guy doing? Oh my gosh, I can't believe I did this. I got six figures in debt. I got this. Man, your body has a map for that and it dumps all the chemicals into your body and it takes you underwater, doesn't it? Yeah. I know the feeling it's almost daily. Yeah. Yeah. You have to choose. I'm not going to go underwater today. And that just means you got to do something different when that wave hits you.

When the wave hits, I'm going to stand as tall as I can, and I'm going to hug my arms and say, man, that kid was going through hell, and I love that guy. Look how strong I am now. And just sit there for a second. Don't run away from it. Your body's trying to get your attention, and the more that wave hits you and you duck underwater, it's getting what it wants, which is you to put your head down so you don't get hurt again.

And the way you teach your body that it's, that it's stronger than it, than it knows itself to be is you stand tall during those moments. Even when it feels like you're going to get knocked over. But man, hauled during those moments even when it feels like you're gonna get knocked over but man i i would love for you to spend 30 minutes with yourself this evening in the journal go to the store today and buy one man and i know you're not supposed to buy anything when you're broke but buy buy a journal man and i would love for you to just to take inventory the last four years of the Amazing things you've overcome you haven't had a drink in four years My guess is you've probably started, um taking care of your body a little bit better over four years

My guess is you probably treat your loved ones a little bit better Um, are your friends a little bit better over four years You graduated college. You got a stable job. You bring joy to countless people coming to Alaska to see something that they never get to see in their day-to-day life. You're probably extra compassionate to folks who come out there, right? On and on and on. I want you to write those things down. And I want you to make today almost like your sobriety day. You remember that day, February of 2020. You remember that day. I want you to have another marker today

of the day that you decided to start loving and honoring and looking forward to the future with Eric. You can't untangle all that rashness. And what you'll find is as you begin to move into the future, things will pop up, man, that so-and-so said this or you experienced that. Those things will pop up and that's what you're going to go talk

to your therapist about. And I know you're probably sick of therapy. Find somebody that you care about, somebody that you love, somebody that you trust or a group of trusted friends, whatever. I would suggest you stick with a professional for the time being,

but especially if you're still feeling those daily waves of that depressive just ocean just hitting you um I know you're sick of it, but keep going man You owe it to future eric And I want to promise you in four years from now if you keep taking those tiny steps forward and learn to honor yourself Not stew and based in that what happened what happened? I can't believe oh my gosh. I can't believe

Look how far i've come look how strong strong this guy is. And look at the impact he's making in the world. He's bringing joy to so many people on a daily basis. The last thing I'm going to tell you is brother, I know it's hard. You got to find a group of friends to do life with. And I know that might be ridiculous. You can roll your eyes, but you got to find a group of guys that you can just hang with that won't identify you as, oh yeah, that's the guy in AA or that's the guy that works in the transportation. It's just my friend here. Whatever it takes to make that happen. Okay. Whatever it takes. Maybe it's a couple of guys from AA that y'all start having dinner together and lunch together

and whatever. Make them a regular part of your life. I need you to hear me say this. I see a guy who's changed everything. It's been a slow turn. It's been four years, a bunch of tiny little steps, and you're still taking these tiny steps. You've gone miles over the last four years. I'm really proud of you. Don't stop.

Just keep moving. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. I am just super excited to announce I'm hitting the road with my buddy Dave Ramsey this spring on a brand new tour. Just us two. And we're putting a new twist on this thing. We're going to talk about money. We're going to talk about relationships. And we're going to tell stories y'all have never heard before. It's going to be an incredible, fun night, but every night is going to be totally different because you, the audience, are going to help choose what we talk about. You heard that right. It's going to be like no event you've ever been to. We're kicking it off

in Louisville on April 21st, 2025, and then we're going to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and then Kansas City. You're going to laugh. You're going to learn. And if we do our jobs right, you're going to change your life. Get your tickets for the Money in Relationships Tour today at ramsaysolutions.com slash tour. Hey, we're back. So a lot of people reach out to me after hearing the advertisements on the show and ask about counseling and ask about is BetterHelp really as good as I'm always ranting and raving they are. Do they really show up?

Do they really give you a licensed therapist all the time? Yada, yada, yada. The answer is yes. I have people from all over the country reaching out saying, thank you so much. I walk outside from my job and I can talk to my licensed counselor in my car. Or when my kid's finally taking a nap and I feel like I'm losing my mind, I can meet with my therapist from my laptop in my living room.

And I don't have to get a babysitter. It's such a gift. And I talk about it a lot. And you'll hear me in all the commercial breaks talking about BetterHelp, BetterHelp, BetterHelp. I thought it'd be awesome to let you listen to some real voices, some real people that I didn't curate, some real people who have experienced BetterHelp and they're going to talk about their experience. It's worth a listen. Check it out. The past two years has been a lot for everyone across the globe. And it's been a lot for me personally. So I decided to use BetterHelp for therapy because I was entering a new season of

my life. I have been on BetterHelp for about two weeks now. I've experienced job loss, moving across the country when I was nine months pregnant, becoming a first-time parent to my beautiful daughter, learning how to make new friends in the midst of the isolation of the pandemic, and losing my cousin due to mental illness. New relationship, we were talking about our future together, new promotion at work, a bunch of new stress in my life, both good and bad, that I was working through and trying to make sure that I'm using every tool in the toolbox that I possibly could. It was a lot. And so I decided to take up Dr. John Deloney's recommendation to use BetterHelp using his promo code. And I was matched with counselors who were able to talk me through my feelings and what had recently happened. My therapist and I, we

communicate many different ways. We have a chat session that we can go back and forth. If I have a story that is going to be a little too long for texting, I can record myself and send it to her as an audio file. And we also have live sessions. It was a great experience. My therapist that I was matched with, she helped me identify how different traumas and experiences in my life were affecting the way I react to things now. She helped me with strategies on how to approach situations at work better, how not to take work home with me, how to approach conversations with my partner better. I've had a really great experience with her. All these different topics such as parenthood, marriage, even just some conversations regarding boundaries with my family that I grew up with. We talked about my marriage, my mental health, setting healthier boundaries, how I can make new friends, what I should say yes and no to.

It was a great experience. You know, as somebody who's dealt with anxiety his entire life, it was by far the best counseling experience I've ever had. I can't recommend it enough. And especially as you enter different seasons of your life, I think it's a great opportunity to make sure you're using all the tools you possibly can. I highly encourage everyone to check it out. I think it's been very enriching for myself. And I think it could be for you all too.

I would recommend it to all of my family and friends to give it a try. And I'd highly recommend it to you.