The Dr. John Delony Show - Antidepressants Have Killed Our Sex Life

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

On today’s episode, we hear about: A young woman struggling with her boyfriend’s lack of sex drive A daughter wondering if she should donate a kidney to her estranged mother A wife that���s unsure how to support her fiancée and his family Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch   Connect With Our Sponsors: Need to talk to someone? BetterHelp is virtual therapy when it’s convenient for you. Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. These are the BEST sheets and towels in the world. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.   Getting lots of spam calls? DeleteMe can clean up your online presence for you. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe.  Find peace every day. Hallow is the simplest way to slow down and get your head right for the day. Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial.  I have Helix Midnight mattresses in EVERY bedroom in my house. Get 20% off when you visit Helix Sleep and take the sleep quiz to see what you need!  I took Thorne supplements way before I worked at Ramsey. I’m stoked that we can work together now! Get 25% for LIFE at Thorne.    Head over to Poncho Outdoors to try the best outdoor performance shirt for yourself!   Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I've been with my partner for almost two years. And when I met him, I didn't know he was an alcoholic. Oh, boy. He has now been sober for 134 days. Awesome. But during one of his last benders, he told me that I confused love with sex. And that's true, probably. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney's show, taking your calls on your mental and emotional health, on your relationships, on your marriage, and your kids, whatever you got going on. You want to be on this show? Go out to John Deloney.com slash ask. ASK, fill out the forum. It'll come to the great and powerful Kelly, and she'll get you on the show. Love to have you on. Take two seconds, please, please, please, and hit the subscribe button and the like button and all of that stuff, especially on. YouTube, if you'll hit the subscribe button, it just kicks us up in the algorithm, and it puts the show in front of more people. I'm so, so grateful for everybody that's done that. Thank you so, so much. We crossed 100 million views last month.

I don't even have a psychology for that. It's mind-boggling. It really is. My mom does nothing but hit refresh all day and subscribe, refresh and subscribe. We love her for it. She's getting after it, dude. A hundred million views. That is...

never mind i was going to try to do the math minus 17 i'm not that let's just go out to salt lake city and talk to sarah what's up sarah hey how are you i'm great how are you i'm doing okay what's up so um a little background i've been with my partner for almost two years and when i met him i didn't know he was an alcoholic oh boy and he's been rehab and you know a couple of stints in detox and stuff, but he has now been sober for 134 days. Awesome. And he is working on his sobriety. He's going to AA.

He's gone to an A meeting almost all of those days. How old are you guys? I'm 49 and he's 56. Okay. So it does seem like he's actually working on sobriety, not just not drinking. So I'm super proud of him for that. but during one of his last benders he told me that I confused love with sex

and that's true probably but after last he talked can I do two things yeah sorry to interrupt you whenever I hear something I just need to hit a pause on I want to hit a pause on it real quick okay okay

number one you might confuse love with sex at times almost every human on the planet does that and number two i put zero none zilch stock in what somebody on a bender rips off at me okay okay so whatever you might confuse love with sex very common thing and it might be something relationally to work through and there might be deep-seated roots it blah blah all that might be true you don't get to lob you don't get to lob grenades at me when you're not sober as a way to protect yourself.

You get what I'm saying? Yeah, I get it. Okay. So, keep going. Okay. So in his last detox, after that, they put him on Prozac, and it obviously drastically impacted our sex life. Yeah, just crush your libido, yeah.

And I tried to be okay with it because I'm seeing a lot of really positive changes. I'm seeing, you know, he hasn't missed a day of work in over four months now. He is, you know, he was home and present when we were together. He would, you know, cuddle me at night and touch me at night. And we talked all the time. And so I had all these different types of intimacy, but I didn't have the physical intimacy, like the sex part. I mean, he touched me. It wasn't like he didn't touch me.

But I had a really hard time with it. And my anxiety flew through the roof. And so he went off his Prozac, and now I'm starting to see that he is less present when he's home. He's still going to AA. He hasn't met with his sponsor in over a month now. And, you know, when I talked to him about how I was struggling with the lack of sex life, we had um he told me you know i'll talk to my doctor and stuff like that and he doesn't really do that when he goes to his doctor how do you know and so because we talk about it afterwards and

i'm like you know hey how'd your doctor's appointment go and he's like my good you know did did you ask your doctor about switching meds or doing something like that and he goes no he doesn't like getting on a second medication to, you know, and I'm like, well, yeah, but we still got this problem and. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Sex is incredibly important to a relationship and different people have different libido. All that stuff is navigated in every marriage ever, always, right? Yeah.

But you have a husband who's been an alcoholic for a long time who's, in treatment, who's also getting help for depression, who's also willing to touch you, and I'm assuming satisfy you sexually except for intercourse. Is that fair or no? No. Okay. So he just won't do anything at all? Before he got sober, I would have said he would have absolutely done that. Okay. But no. Okay. My question is, or I guess my statement is this.

Okay. This is a guy who's got, has been running from demons for a long time. Is that fair? Very fair. He's got a lot of physical challenges he's working through his body, both emotionally, but also just, just physically, right? Yeah. So there's got to be a time of compassion and letting him get his feet underneath him. And that's what I'm trying to do, but I can't seem to, I can't seem to do that.

Okay. tell me about that let's take him off the equation how does three months of no sex for somebody who's trying to not die why does that set off every alarm in your body um or i don't say why that's an unfair question but where does that come from my ex-husband um kind of the same thing you know our sex life just dwindled to nothing and so i was

you know, asking for date nights and things like that. And one time I asked him what turns him on, and we were laying in bed, and I said, what's one thing that turned you on? And he couldn't really come up with an answer. And so a few minutes later, I went and sat around the couch, and then he came out and was really angry. You know, like hit a lamp.

And it fell to the ground on the light bulb, shattered all over, and he left for, like, 24 hours. And then when he came home, I got the silent treatment for three days. And then when he started talking to me again about the stupid mundane things, kids, and grocery lists and things like that, I asked him if we could talk about what happened, so we could try to find a way that, so it didn't happen again. And I just got the silent treatment again. And so How long ago was this? It was 2010.

Okay. But I never talked to him about sex or anything ever again. I never tried to initiate ever. And we were together for another 12 years. So did you go 12 years in basically a sexless marriage, or did you go 12 years in a silent marriage where he got what he wanted whenever he wanted it?

It was emotionally not good, but that was the only physical display of violence that there ever was. Okay. So can I... Can I... Can I encourage you to take another track in your current relationship?

Yeah. Okay. Here's step one. ex-husband no longer gets a vote in my current marriage. Period. Okay? And a note, that's easy to say. There's a whole bunch of work to be done there.

I recently told somebody on a previous show, if this is something you want to consider, I wouldn't recommend it in a marriage bedroom, but there's something about, I wouldn't put his name on it, but maybe put a brick or a cinder block by your bed. so when you open your eyes in the morning, you can see it and you can say,

I'm not carrying you around anymore. And leave that for a few weeks. Eventually, that thing gets out of your bedroom and it's out. I'm not carrying you around anymore. The second thing is, if you're married to somebody and they're going through a pretty significant health crisis,

this is male or female, and they're trying to stay alive, asking them to get off potentially life-saving medication because I have to have sex right now or I get anxious that's a problem for you and your doctor and your therapist to go talk through because every single marriage in the world has seasons of ups and downs in pregnancies and surgeries

and grief and cancers and people that just has seasons where we're not able to be sexually intimate. And if your body goes into such an anxiety-ridden response, which sounds like there's such a severing of an anxious attachment that just sends your body into, like, panic, if you will, then I want to go sit down with somebody and say, hey, I need to heal some of this old trauma. And I'd be willing to get to bet,

and you can tell me if I'm wrong, that your relationship with sex and intimacy, the alignment challenges you have, your whole physical and emotional ecosystem around sex started way before your last husband. Is that fair? Yeah. Okay.

Do you have childhood crap around sex and abuse and things? Not abuse, but I grew up in a really religious culture that um i know has negatively impacted okay so here's what i want for you i want you to have an amazing relationship to yourself in your sexuality and an understanding of what sex means to you in your body and your libido and it's okay to have an off-the-chart libido that's great wonderful awesome and it's great to have conversations with your now husband who's taking medication it's saying like hey you may not be able to get erections during this time you may not be able to um have intercourse with me but is there other things

we can do is there other things we can do to be intimate and you may not quote unquote be feeling it but you also feel this relationship like there's all kinds of intermediary conversations but if he is faced with i need to save my life or her life it sounds like he's saying i'll try to save hers but it's going to cost it you get what i'm saying that's an impossible choice yeah and what i don't want is two people who have some demons they need to work through trying to so codependently use each other to stay to stay alive that you both burn to the ground in the process okay you get what i'm saying yeah i want you to love sex in your new marriage and i also want you to champion your husband's health journey

And I want you to be able to see past. This isn't forever, but this might be right now. And also, I want your body to not go into full panic mode if you don't have physical intimacy to tell you that you're okay or you're still loved. Because despite his struggles with alcohol and despite his mental health struggles, it sounds like this guy loves you. Is that right? Yeah, he does.

Does that feel crazy to have a guy love you so much? He's willing to get off his meds and just tough it out for you? Yeah, he thinks you're worth it. He thinks you're worth it. I think you're worth it. But I also think he's worth it too. So let me tell you something. You're not crazy for wanting to sleep.

with your new husband. And I can guarantee you there's millions of men listening to this call thinking, what? You know what I mean? And it's not wise to ask him to

130 days into a new sobriety journey, working with a physician, working with a mental health professional, finally gotten some low-level SSRI that's going to help him. It's unwise to take him off of that immediately if it's helping in all these other areas, he is and it's not honest as a physician to say i don't i i won't have any other conversations right

now that's a that's a strange approach unless the physician says hey give it six months give it a minute to get everything stable and then we'll start tinkering with things to get your libido back but i want you to believe you're worth being loved outside of the bedroom you get that how do i do that you got to sit down with somebody and start being honest and you've been silent for over a decade or more because you learned if you ask even a remotely emotional question somebody's going to smash a lamp in your face and then not talk to you because somebody told you as a little kid we don't talk about these things we don't look at these things we don't even acknowledge

these things and they made you feel crazy for being curious or for wanting to explore or for liking sex you were told something was wrong with you and it's just false and wrong but that kind of healing will come sitting down with the professional therapist and here's how I think their trajectory will probably go and if it goes this way that would be amazing that you sit down with your husband and you say, hey, I love you to the moon and back

and I'm watching you take these steps to love yourself and to love me and I'm so proud of you and I'm so grateful, thank you. I've also realized I've got some sexual trauma in my past and I'm trying to get you to carry that

and right now you're working on your healing. I'm going to go talk to a professional because I want to get well too. I'm being inspired by you. And that will hopefully lead to y'all ending up together in a marriage counselor, the marriage counselor's office negotiating, talking through how y'all are going to be married together. And what sex looks like when he's 56 and he's taking medication and he can't get it up, but he still wants to love you and still wants to give you a good time and what it looks like for y'all to talk about sex.

and what it looks like when he wakes up on a random Tuesday morning and he's ready to go and how to approach you with it, like all those things. But all of this in your world will start with you believing I'm worth the conversations, all these years, 46 years of squashing who I am and what I'm curious about, what I want to talk about, that was never your fault.

Your parents should have talked to you about this stuff. Your abusive ex-husband should have talked to you about stuff. okay do you believe me in my head i do okay that's good enough i'll take that i'm good enough that's good enough for me i'm gonna hook you up with three months for free of with my friends at better help so you can start talking to someone today or tomorrow okay okay i am super honored to talk to you today okay thank you so much i appreciate it all right hang on the line and we're going to get you hooked up with some better help counseling so you can from the comfort of your own house on on zoom or on screen you can get to talking to somebody ASAP

thank you so so much for the call we come back a woman is torn over becoming a kidney donor for the mother who hurt her all right time for a quick word about delete me does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel more like digital trails leading bad guys right to our doors. Right now, scammers are using fishing attacks. That's fishing with a pH where they try to trick you and they're giving them something by pretending to know you. You might get an email or a tax or a phone call.

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All right, let's go out to Kansas City, Missouri and talk to well, well, well, my Michelle. What's up, Michelle? Hi, Dr. John. How's it going? I'm doing okay. I'm very nervous. I don't be nervous. You're good. Actually, you know what? You can be as nervous as you want to be.

I haven't lost anybody yet, so I'm glad you're here. Thank you. So I guess I'll ask my question, and then I'll just go into a little bit of background here. So I need help deciding whether I should be evaluated to determine if I'm a donor match for my mother who is in stage three kidney failure. So just for some background, both my parents are alcoholics. They were very heavy.

They were very much in their addiction for the majority of my adolescents. I've experienced a lot of verbal and emotional abuse and neglect from both of my parents when I was younger. In 2007, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. You know, she did the treatment and went into remission. And then some years later, she was diagnosed with heart failure, which led to her heart transplant in 2015. There were periods of time when they would not drink, but it's always something that they kind of went back to. She's never really lived a healthy lifestyle, like not eating healthy, not taking care of herself, not exercising, not adjusting her mental health problems, not taking her medication properly. As a child and a teenager, I struggled immensely with their alcoholism.

When I was in the fifth grade, I began to self-harm. They eventually found out, took me to a few counseling sessions, and it was never brought up again or spoken about. I continued to self-harm until I was about 18. I moved out of my parents' home, and I haven't self-harmed since. I'm not very close with my mother. I don't talk to her much So bring me here too Bring me now

I've got the full picture there It's been a rough go So how old are you right now I'm 31 Okay And how old is she? She's about 62 I believe Okay

And I'm guessing she's in renal failure Her kidneys aren't working anymore Oh yeah you just you said that already So she's in stage three And have they reached out to you As a potential donor They haven't necessarily really reached out to me, but they have said you guys should be evaluated to see if you

were potentially a donor, yeah. Wow, that's a tough one. Yeah, there's lots of layers. Well, can I peel back all the layers for you? Yeah. I want to wipe the table clean of all layers. Okay. Okay.

And the way you just, and as much for you as for you, as for. for everyone else listening, you gave me, you just, like, took a completely peeled onion and you layered it back together for me, starting in as a kid, fifth grader. Yeah. All the way 26 years later until you're 31 years old. Mm-hmm. And then you've got a mother who's already had a heart transplant, who continues to drink, who's had cancer, who's out all these things.

and the message that she needs to be a steward of her body has never gotten through and I'm not going to blame her. She may be sick, she may be ill. I don't know what her childhood was like, but for whatever reason, she's continued to choose choice after choice

to not go get well, right? Yeah. So I want to take my arm and swipe the table completely clean. Okay. And I want you to tell me are you the kind of person that feels like you have to do this no matter what or are you the kind of person who doesn't want to do this but you got a little guilt or who are you in this

moment faced with this decision so because listen real quick all of this other stuff is it feels like you're trying to make a case for yourself as to why you don't have to or shouldn't want to or if you feel guilty you shouldn't feel guilt and I want to get I want to free you from all of that yeah do you want to do this thing I don't I actually I don't I truly don't think that just say that just say that I don't want to yeah I don't I don't put a period at the end of that and just exhale for a second drop your shoulders I don't now when you say I don't want to. Whose voice is coming in saying, no, no, no, no, but you should?

Whose voices are that? Is it your churches? Is it your friends? Is it a distant guilt, like a written voice from your mom? Who's coming in and saying, countering what you don't want? Mainly my siblings, my sister, to be exact. Okay. Tell me about that.

She's my older sister. I have asked her She's aware of You know My trauma and my struggles with my parents I've asked her Previously if she would resent me in the future If I choose not to be

Evaluated And she's essentially said that she You know she doesn't know She can't tell the future Okay let me ask you this Do you have a close relationship with your older sister? Sometimes yes Sometimes no

Okay Okay Which, that means no. That means sometimes you'll perform well with each other and sometimes maybe you go to each other for comfort, but that's not a, you don't have a right or die relationship. In abusive households, sometimes kids huddle together and they become inseparable because they had to and it becomes this lifelong bond and other times they get split up. One becomes the caretaker.

One basically becomes the parent of the household. One becomes the blamer. One becomes the peacekeeper. one becomes the I'm out of here and you may have seasons or moments where you're really tightly knit out of a shared traumatic experience but y'all aren't close does that sound right it's very accurate okay so I'm going to challenge you why are you giving your sister a vote here um because I I want to um I guess just I want I was seek a close relationship with her and I always have um okay stop right stop right there you want a close relationship with your sister period can you drop your shoulders on that one yeah you're 31 you should have had that a long time ago yeah and the question I have for you is does she want her a close relationship with you

She says she does. Behavior is a language. Does she want a close relationship with you? No. Okay. Can we just sit there for a second? Yeah. Because after your parents didn't show up for you,

your parents were sick, your whole childhood. Your sister probably played a pretty maternal role in your life, making sure you were at school on time and making sure you were safe and you were driven to where you needed to go. And I can't imagine the nightmare that she doesn't want to be close with you either. Yeah. And it's real easy to be 31 and start to think,

what is so unlovable about me that both mom and dad and now her? I just need to tell you, it's not you. They have their own demons, all three of them. Yeah. I'm sorry. you doing something that you don't want to do and this is an extreme situation you giving up an organ doing a thing you don't want to do will not lead to this close relationship with your sister that you're so you're so you want that so badly you'll give up a part of your body to a dying woman

you want it so badly and I'm just telling you on the other side of that that's not going to be the thing because you have never been the problem in that relationship Mm-hmm And it feels powerless, right? I'm sorry.

Do you have younger siblings? No, I'm the youngest. Okay. How many, do you have an older sister? Do you have older brother? Any other older siblings? Just so older brother and an older sister. What's your brother say? My brother doesn't feel like me or my sister should have anything to do with it. He feels as though him being the oldest should kind of take over and see if he can be a donor, but he has his own health issues that would. disqualify him from being a donor.

Okay. Are you married? Yes. What's your husband say? My husband absolutely does not want me to do it. Okay. Of all the people you mentioned, I would take his vote into account first.

Yeah. And I would take your vote into an account first. And my guess is your vote. boat has been squashed your entire life? Yes. Okay. Now, I can't on this call tell you what to do. I'm not going to do that.

And in my mind, I might be thinking, you're crazy. You should give your mind. I'm not, but I could be. What I think about this doesn't matter. What I want to do is clear the deck and tell you that the choice is painful, but it's simpler than it seems. and if the outcome of I'm going to give a kidney to somebody who is desperate for life and who is life giving

and I want to say there's an ROI on doing the right thing that's what I'm trying to say but I'm willing to put my life and health for my family on the line because this is a person who is X, Y, Z, then I will support you all day long. But I'll also support you if you say, I'm going to put a kidney on the table for somebody who, A, doesn't care, B, I'm doing it not to save somebody's life to give them more life, but I'm doing it to try to win favor with somebody else. I would tell you don't do that. I'll support you in that too. Yeah.

and I guess I mostly want to just give you a hug and say I'm sorry this whole thing is a mess thank you because I've seen the other situation where a parent needs a kidney or something needs some sort of support and because of the legacy

they've left for their kids there's a line of kids and cousins like I'm in I'll I will I'm in right? And I hate this is the world you've grown up in. It just breaks my heart for you, makes my heart for your sister, your brother makes my heart for your parents, breaks my heart for everybody.

Yeah, yeah. So what are you thinking? I mean, I think you just kind of solidified everything that I have been thinking. I have two kids, so I also have to think of my kids and, you know, what it could possibly mean for my kids in the future. I mean, it could go both ways, right? Let's say you had a great relationship with your mom. Everything was totally different.

One of the greatest gifts your kids could see is their mom's sacrifice. Like, that would be an amazing gift for them too, right? Yeah. And so your kids get a gift either way. whether they see mom giving up one of her kidneys for one of her family members that shows them the power of family and the power of sacrifice like that could be awesome in and of itself and also you choosing not to and maybe i don't know how old they are but you explaining here's my thought process here's why i am opting out of this situation here's why i'm not even going to get tested um my family has pretty much excluded me my entire life and now i'm they're trying to draw me back in because I have something they want, whether that's money, whether that's a kidney, whether that's job success, whether that's fame, whatever that is. They're trying to draw me back in to use me for a thing.

That's a great lesson for them too. Yeah. Yeah, but I also feel a little bit of guilt that if she doesn't pull through and ends up passing, I mean, she doesn't have much relationship with them as it is, there goes their grandma and I maybe could have helped save her. So fast forward a year. She's got your kidney. Is she out running around with those kids?

Is she calling them over to see her? Probably not. No. Is that heartbreaking to even think about? Yes, of course. The challenge is by doing something really courageous and brave, like donating a kidney which i'm in high support of the the act of right i think it's a noble awesome thing bone marrow all that stuff is doing it for codependent reasons or doing it to try to

perpetuate or kick down the road a fantasy of now everything's going to be okay now my sister's going to finally love me after 31 years now my mom's going to finally start being a good steward of her body even though with her heart transplant and this and this and this she hasn't now my older brother is going to think highly like these things aren't going to come to fruition now even if your mom never changes and she's not been there for you she struggle with addiction she has got a new heart got a new this got a new this cancer survivor all these things if you said i want to do this because I think it's right. Knock your lights out.

I'll support you. And hopefully if you sat down with your husband and said, I know and I know and I know and I know and I want to do this thing. He would say, I don't want you to do it, but it's your body and I will stand here with you. I'll hold your hand through and before and after the surgery. I would hope that would be the case. So I don't want to say you only do nice things to people if there's an ROI in it. Like you're going to live a healthy life.

Sometimes you just do the next right thing. But I guess what I want to free you from is you have any obligation. obligation to fulfill some fantasy of a repaired relationship worth being loved all these things you're not going to get that externally and i just hate this whole situation for you so thank you so much for the call michel i wish you the absolute best and whatever you decide to do and i guess i'll just lean on you and tell you choose guilt over resentment you're going to feel guilty either way you're going to feel guilty no matter what decision you make one of these decisions are going to lead you to a place where you absolutely resent yourself

and your situation and your family members, and which one of those are you going to feel guilty, but no pun intended, you're going to be able to remain whole. Thank you so, so much for the call. We come back. A woman is unsure of how to help her future in-laws without overstepping. Oh boy, this will be a good one. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, everybody in the world is talking about therapy these days. And I often hear folks say, I don't have any major traumas in my life. I don't think therapies for me. This is super important. Therapy isn't just for people dealing with major traumas. It can be for that. It has been for me, but it can also be a valuable tool for anyone looking to improve their mental and emotional and relational well-being.

I see a therapist for both the big challenges from my past, as well as helping me navigate the day-to-day challenges that pop up in my life, and many of you should see someone, too. And if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. They also have over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist just for them. To get started, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist.

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help.com slash deloni. All right, it's got to Columbus, Ohio, and talk to Alexis. Hey, Alexis, what's up? Hey, how are you? Doing remarkable. How are you?

Not too, man. Good. What's up? Um, so I just have a situation I wanted to get some advice on. Um, my fiance's dad has been in and out of the hospital the last two or three months in and out of rehabs, different things like that. Um, and I'm just struggling with trying to find my place and trying to be supportive, not only to my fiance, but to his family as well without kind of overstepping, um, my balance. So I just wanted to get your take on that. Um, how are you? do you feel like you're overstepping your bounds? I feel like I tend to get more worked up. I'm learning than some, like, what I'm finding is that his family, their dynamics are

different than mine, obviously, but I'm learning in their family. They tend to get riled up on things that aren't necessarily an issue. I'm struggling with getting straight information from his mom or his sister. or even him sometimes. And so I'm just trying, I feel like I can help. I have background and social work. I'm a social worker for a medical worker. I know.

I'm trying not to be that person, but I also. You are, you're a trained social worker. That's how you guys are. Y'all want to help everybody. Yeah, I feel like there's a need to be supportive. I'm just trying to figure out, okay, what's too much and what's, you know, not enough. I don't know. I just.

There's three big challenges here, okay? Here's challenge number one. You have to hose your boots off. What do I mean by that? If you're a social worker by trade, when you walk in the door, you're a fiancé first. Okay. And so I have, like, the number of times my wife has said, I don't need any of that counseling crap in here.

She was right. And that was on me. I got to unplug. Okay. My dad was a homicide detective. And so whenever he wanted to find out who ate the last, you know, peppermint York, like, it was like, all right, everybody line up. Like, hey, dude, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you got to turn your professional thing off when you walk in the door.

That's number one. Number two, I have a rule. You can adopt this or not, but as a mental health professional, there's always going to be somebody somewhere that you think I can help. That's why we got into this job, right? Yeah. Yeah. You will become the most annoying person at all. Every party, every church gathering, every, everything, if you don't adopt this, but you don't have to.

I'm just telling you, I've learned this the hard way. Yeah. I only answer questions I'm asked. Okay. And I only enter into help if I'm asked. Okay. Unless I see a dire emergency. If someone's like a truck's coming, I'm going to shove somebody out of the way.

Sure. But if I hear somebody like, dude, my wife is filled in the blank X, Y, Z, and I'm like, you're a dummy. You should not have done that. Mm-hmm. I used to just be like, hey, let me tell you something, bro. I don't do that anymore, unless you're one of my core, core, core friends. Okay? Here's the third thing.

And you can tell me if I'm wrong. Almost always in these situations, you find out who you're married to or who you're marrying as potential life transitions and or tragedies emerge. Mm-hmm. And you have to be honest if you're asking yourself. Is this how he's going to handle things? Mm-hmm. If we ever have kids and one of our kids get sick. Yeah.

When I potentially get cancer one day, is he just going to bury his head in the sand too? And that relationship issue is what you really need to drill in on. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tell me if I'm right or wrong there. Nope, you're right.

Okay. I see a lot of the burying the head in the sands, not only like with my fiance but um with his dad even who's sick and then his mom like they're very slow to speak up very slow to ask questions or um you know kind of get to the bottom of things and so i feel like okay maybe they just don't know the language maybe they just don't know what to ask but or maybe or maybe they just don't care mm-hmm or maybe they don't want it that's heartbreaking the question you have to ask is do you want to be married to somebody who has that roadmap and who's unwilling to invest and learn and challenge themselves to develop a

new roadmap and that is the harder conversation yeah I figured it was something like that um and so here's an amazing way like here's how I would have that conversation something along the lines of I am seeing a pattern that I would love permission to talk about but it involves talking about your parents is that okay and he might say

I don't want to talk about my parents you might say okay I want to talk about you and me though and so at some point we need to have this conversation will you tell me when it's a good time and then I'm coming back to you in 24 48 hours

and then to be able to say I'm watching a pattern emerge. I'm no better than anybody else, but I'm watching that when scary medical news comes up, scary financial news comes up, scary whatever, your parents bury their head in the sand. They don't want to ask questions. They don't want to try to solve the problem. And things just kind of is what it is what it is. And I see that same tendency in you, and that makes me nervous for our future. Because I want to be with somebody that faces problems head on.

Yeah. And that's a scary proposition of a conversation, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Okay. Which off and on, we've kind of broached that subject. Like, this has been going on, I mean, obviously for the last few months, but recently there was an issue that came up. And so over the last few weeks, we've been kind of having that conversation.

We're in premarital counseling. Awesome. Perfect timing. Perfect. For things like that to be brought up. And so it's an ongoing kind of conversation. Neither one of us have a ton of long-term relationship experience. And so I think we're struggling with coming together versus maintaining, like, our independence and stuff like that in a lot of ways where I'm used to handling certain things with my family.

But then I don't want to interject my opinion on what's happening with his family to try to be, like, intrusive. but we're supposed to come together and, you know, have the foundation of a stance on certain things. Sure. So we're just, you know, kind of talking through a lot of those things. And he isn't typically one to speak up since we've been together. He's been more outspoken. He used to be very, before, you know, we got together, he used to be very just quiet. He kind of let everything around him kind of happen.

And now he's more outspoken about it. but I think it's also just a learning curve for both of us. Perfect. And he's practicing that. That's the best you can ask for both of you, right? The thing I always want for couples is not, especially in primarial counseling, is not to have, I mean, you're basically planning for the first three months or for six months. Like who's going to pay what, who's going to hit send on the bills, right?

And what bank are we going to use? And we're both going to share a checking account, right? and are we going to pay off our student loan? Like there's six months of mechanical stuff, right? Logistics. The bigger thing I want people to get from premarital counseling is a framework for repair. There will come a time that one of us hurts each other more than once, more than 20 times over the course of our marriage. How will we come back to the table?

Or when I see a side of you that I don't like. how do I bring that to the table? How do I give you bad news? How do I give you, I just, I did something and I need to ask your forgiveness. That's what I'm interested in in premarital counseling, especially for folks who are getting married a little bit later. I say later, there's no breaks anymore. But like, who have established their own independent identity, their own lives, they paid their own bills for years. and now they're joining, joining two people.

I'm more interested in, do you all have a framework for when we find a disagreement, do we have a way that we can talk about it? Mm-hmm. That one person doesn't try to beat the other person up, the other person doesn't stick their head in the sand or whatever, right? Mm-hmm. And so he might be practicing, becoming more outspoken.

I'm way more interested in his actions. Okay. And there it goes. It sounds like Kelly's been out driving again in the background. She's not a great driver. But you get what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, I get what you're saying.

I think we've kind of gotten to the part in pre-mail counseling about like a conflict resolution, communication, all of that. I tend to be like want to talk about it. He tends to what I'm learning is I've. bring up something he wants time to process it so um we're we're in the middle okay so here's the compromise there here's the amazing compromise um i'm me and my wife are the exact opposite of you too i want to talk about it right the second um she needs about 48 hours and so the compromise is making sure when i say something hard to hear or i put a concern down or i put a i'm sad or frustrated about this particular thing and she needs time to process it making sure we have a day

or a time on the calendar when we will come back. Okay. Because sometimes I just need some time to process it becomes a way to stall out and not deal with it. And also sometimes me needing to talk about it all right now is less about solving the issue and more about me vomiting on somebody. and so me saying hey i've got this issue and my wife saying yikes that's big or that's heavy or any time to process that i don't even know how i feel about that i need 48 hours we're going to go to breakfast on this day and we'll talk about it and that puts a boundary on her that puts a boundary on me and so if your husband or your fiancee needs time to process hey we have to talk about this from struggling with your parents i'm afraid that's going to become us whoa that's a lot

I need to process it, okay, let's put a date and time on the calendar that we're going to circle back and talk. Mm-hmm. And that bounds it. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And I think it's, I think it also would be a little bit more reassuring to me like, okay, we're going to have the conversation. It's not just going to be a dot, dot, dot, forever.

Yes, yeah, that is what I struggle with. And by the way, it also gives him some freedom that he doesn't, like I shoot from the hit, my wife does not. and so she has at times felt like she's got to enter into a firefight and that's just not how she rolls she's a sniper she shoot you and you're not looking three days later right i just want to have a duel at sundown today right now right and so it gives her it gives her peace too that she doesn't know she knows she doesn't have to respond in real time in a debate right away and both of us walk away from that exchange with peace so you can ask through your in marriage counseling if this is a 24 or 48 or 72 hour issue like if you came in and said hey i think i have

feelings for a co-worker right now we need to talk about it he might say that's a 72 hour issue if you came in and said um your parents have struggled with alcohol i've seen you drinking a lot more he might say ah you're right i'm oh god that's a 48 hour issue okay um you are late on paying the water bill again i want to be the person who hits the thing like whoa it's a lot and i feel ashamed and blah blah that's a 24 year y'all get to decide but just giving those three frameworks and i just made that up on the spot that doesn't have to be what y'all do but having a couple of buttons y'all can push will give you some freedom in that negotiation but all that to say is to recap i don't answer questions I'm not asked anymore.

I don't interject in people's relationships unless there's a stone cold emergency anymore. If somebody is lecturing me on the virtues of a vegan diet, I just let them rip. If someone's like, you know what's the best ever carnivore? If you eat fiber, you're going to die. I just, whatever, dude. Knock your lights out. I saw a meme recently that Keanu Reeves is like, life is too short. If you tell me five plus five is eight, I'm going to nod and say, that's great.

I'm going to walk on. I don't have time. I don't have time for it. you ask me, hey, what's five plus five? I'm going to tell you the answer. And most of the time, my relationship projections are me trying to protect myself from having a hard conversation at home with my wife, with my kids. Thanks for the call, Alexis, you're awesome.

And best of luck to you in these upcoming conversations. And by the way, good for you for having premarital counseling. Everyone should do that. I didn't, and I regret it. And I think everybody should have some premarital counseling as they're entering into that important relationship. We'll be right back. All right, everybody talks about how important supplements are.

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Take what it needs and nothing it doesn't. Go to thorn.com slash you slash Deloney to get 25% off your order when you create an account. That's T-H-O-R-N-E dot com slash the letter you slash deloni. All right, something cool happened. What is it, Kelly? All right. So we just got this letter yesterday, and I wanted to read it. This is from Justin. He called in about two years ago. He was training to be a pilot and had an accident, some things that happened, and was no longer going to be able to do that as a career. And he was completely unmoored and did know how to move forward when that was all he wanted to do. Okay.

Okay. I wanted to send an email to express my gratitude and appreciation for your show and how much I've taken from it, as well as to give an update since I had called into. the show a little under two years ago. I called in to ask Dr. Deloney how to move forward after losing my dream career of aviation, I'm sorry, aviation due to medical and mental health-related reasons. Therapy, though it was something I had avoided, being in aviation, ended up helping me move through the identity crisis and some trauma-related effects. Even after significant progress, I was still wondering what the future held, but I was impacted by the effect counseling had on me and had begun pursuing it as a career. Watching your show, I found myself drawn to crisis response,

and now this is my long-term goal in this field, as well as being an advocate for mental health and aviation. Fast forward to now, I just wrapped up my master's degree in counseling psychology. Yeah, dude! And we'll begin working as an associate doing critical incident stress management. CISM, booyo! A skill I've wanted to learn since I first heard about it. I certainly have been given this last season to grow in empathy and

discernment and to witness firsthand how deep the trenches can be, but also how many tools there are to acclimate and build something new as you've always said. But the most important and most prominent theme that I've seen is that of redemption. After I lost aviation, I kept hearing the phrase, everything happens for a reason. Not that I don't believe this, but that phrase put a huge amount of stress on every decision that came next. What if I choose this new job, but the reason I lost flying was so that I could do this other thing and I screw it all up. Over time, I was overwhelmed with every decision because I didn't want to mess up, quote unquote, the new plan. In time, I found that I had to rest in that and to trust that even in the uncertainty, there is redemption, even if

you are unsure. To me, more digestible than everything happens for a reason is the idea that redemption lies in everything. Use discernment, of course, but redemption remains steadfast in whatever path you choose when lose or draw. Rock on, Justin. P.S. Gibson over Fender all day long. All day! This guy's awesome. Booyah, dude. That's fantastic. Dude, I remember my old

critical incident stress management courses, man, and those were wild. And for those of you who don't know, like, that's when people show up when a plane is crashed in a local area, or a, there's a big bus wreck, or there's a shooting,

and you're responding not only to the people on the ground who are in the middle of that incident but also you're responding to the first responders who are responding to that incident so um yeah those people who are trained in cism who run into those situations and then even run into the second ring of those situations man amazing amazing amazing and i don't want to open a theological can of worms but i'll never forget the guy when i was trying i was younger and i was wrestling with what should i do about this and this I've been praying for this direction. And this may not be everyone's theology.

But the guy said, has it ever occurred to you? God doesn't care what you do for your little American job. He cares who you are wherever you happen to find yourself. And by the way, if you want your attention, he's going to get it. And for whatever reason, that just freed me from this. We talk about calling, and this is inside baseball for faith communities. So if that's not you, you can hang up. You can go on to like Huberman's podcast, whatever you listen to next.

next um this uh we talk about calling as though like god hit it from us like it's an easter egg like you got to find it i got to find it and it's like nope not over there and it's like ooh you're using drugs now like not over there that's not how it works it's madness it's not like this easter egg like is hidden something like you got to find your calling got to find your passion most of us are passionate about the things we do that we're good at and most of us get good at stuff with the things that we practice and almost all of us practice things that somebody made us at some point and it was uncomfortable and I don't know like that phrase like has there occurred you

he doesn't really care like there's hungry people just go to your job and be a great human being while you're doing it and I don't know that just freed me I don't know if that's in the Bible or not but it felt right I tell you that, Kelly, to tell you, I'm glad you're a part of this show. And if you felt called to do it, God bless you. Well, Dave did call me to do it. Well, you made that weird, so I hope that was good. Bye.