The Dr. John Delony Show - At What Point Do I Choose My Kids Over My Marriage?

Episode Date: November 30, 2022

Today, we hear from: - A wife wondering what’s better for her kids: staying with their careless father or leaving him - A man who’s unhappy in his marriage but has no idea what he needs to do to change it - A woman who suspects her fiancé is cheating with his boss Lyrics of the Day: "Suspicious Minds" - Elvis Presley Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I've been married for 16 years and I've got two boys. My husband, he's a good husband, but he's not a great dad. He's just very emotionally unavailable. I feel like I have a responsibility to him to help him grow into the best person that he can be. You can't help him be better. Hip-hop, you don't stop. What's up?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I don't even really listen to hip-hop that much. I used to a lot, but I don't much anymore. Kelly's a huge fan. Not so much. No, I like, I mean, come on on I'm an 80s 90s kid So That's right

I love me some good Good old school hip hop Yeah Come on Eileen Alright hey We're so glad that you're here On the greatest That's not hip hop

That's not hip hop In any way shape or form I know Come on up But one of my favorite 80s songs ever though Is it? It is

I don't know why It's just a fun song And a great one hit wonder A ska band redid it And I forgot their name. I saw them open up for Real Big Fish. It was fantastic, and now I feel bad that I don't remember their name. But they had a one-hit.

What does that make you if your one-hit wonder is a cover of another band's one-hit wonder? I don't know. That just makes for a fun year in your 20s, and then it kind of goes away. But anyway, thanks for joining us on the greatest podcast ever when it comes to mental health marriage and relationships and if i say it long enough i just think it'll be true like our politicians do um listen if you uh want to help out the podcast um please more more so than help out the podcast i mean in all seriousness who cares? It's really about helping out your neighbors.

Help them get the care they need, the questions they need. I'm going to tell the truth. I'm going to walk alongside you. I'm going to love you more than I'm going to throw stuff at you. So you can really help us out. You can really help out your neighbor

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slash you, the letter U slash Deloney thorn.com slash U slash Deloney and get your supplements there. They'll ship them to your house and they're the best of the best of the best. All right, let's go to Holly in Kansas City, Missouri. What's up, Holly? Hi, Dr. John. How we doing? Oh, I'm so excited to talk to you. I'm excited to talk to you and Patrick Mahomes way to go. All right. So what's up? Okay. So my question for you is where do you draw the line between your responsibility to your spouse and your responsibility to your kids? And I can give you some context on that. Give me some context. Okay. So I've been married for 16 years and I've got two boys and my husband, he's a good husband, but he's not a great dad. Um, 14 and 12, 14 and 12.

And Hey, I, I was talking over the top of you and I apologize. You said something profound. Say it again. I said, he's a good husband, but he's not a great dad. Unpack that for me. So he's, well, I feel very obligated to say at the outset, like no abuse or anything like that. He's just very emotionally unavailable. Um, maybe emotionally immature even. And I feel like I have a responsibility to him to help him grow into the best person that he can be. And I love him dearly. But I feel like I also have a responsibility to raise boys who will be good dads. And if they model off of him, I don't think that will be successful. So you can't help him be better. He has to choose to be better. You can assist him. You can walk alongside him. You can help meet his needs

if he is of the emotional maturity to speak them out loud. And he has a vested interest in also meeting your needs. You can do that. You can't help him be the best dad he can be. He has to choose that he wants to be a better dad. When you've brought this up to him in the past, how has he responded? I mean, he thinks he's a fine dad, but I see the way other families are, and I get jealous. That's dangerous ground, Holly. I know. That's super dangerous ground. Because in reverse, him saying, man, I see how other wives take care of themselves i just am jealous like you right you see how that can get real sideways real fast so give me some examples

let's take other people's lives off the table because no matter what you think you're just getting a curated version of that world what are some things that you see in your life that you think make him not a good dad? He doesn't play with our kids. He has never really played with our kids. He really kind of only interacts with them to like give them chores or something like that. It's not a, like, it's almost a speak when spoken to to not really trying to make them into the adult he wants them to be more of enforce the children he wants to have i okay so he's more concerned with don't bother me stay out of my way i give you your life and i give you food in a bed get away do what you're

told don't ask questions if i say no i say no that sort of stuff okay and he doesn't take them those those kind of speak when spoken to you do what i say those type of that type of parenting only works in a relationship right when there's a context there. Do they miss their dad? Do they even try to interact with them or have they just moved on? They just moved on. They come to me for things or like they'll ask me to ask him questions,

but I don't think he knows that they do that. So hard question for you. Where was this conversation 12 years ago? It wasn't as bad then okay um it just seems like it's gotten worse and worse as time goes on does he not like them do they just do they freak him out do they scare him what's he what's he trying to protect himself from i think he doesn't i i think that's more of an inward thing than an outward thing. What does that mean? Like, I think he doesn't like himself. Okay. And so because of that, he just retreats further and further into himself. How's your marriage? Um, you know,

we're going, we're working on some stuff. Like I think most people are. That was a, that was not even a good evasive answer how's your marriage you said he's a great husband i'm calling bs no he he really is he would move the ends of the earth for me um so he'll change your tire he'll change your tire that's cool and he makes sure the oils change which is awesome and he does pay bills. Cool. Is that the standard by which we were saying he's a great husband now? Well, he's really starting to put in some effort to become not just the husband he wants to be, but the husband I need. And I respect that and giving him time to rise to the occasion. Okay. You have bifurcated a man into two different roles.

He's a husband over here and he's a dad over here. I would say those are relationships that emanate from the same person. And in many ways, those can be different skill sets and different tools that I've got to pick up along the way and learn, right? I've never parented a 12-year-old before in my house. And so I'm having to learn in real time what that's like. But it's worth the effort, right? I've never parented a six-year-old girl.

And good God almighty, I don't know what I'm doing. But I'm giving it my best shot from reading and learning and talking to wise people and saying I'm sorry and asking for advice and wisdom. And above all else, I'm leaning into that relationship as weird and awkward as both of them can be. Your husband isn't a great dad and a bad husband or a bad husband and a great dad. He's a man who's really struggling and he might perform better on one task and he's not performing well on the other, but he may be trying to get better in one relationship, but abandoning other relationships. It comes from the same guy. And I say that because if he got the husbanding thing down great and he completely neglects his kids, he's never going to be there.

You're never going to fully lean into that. You shouldn't. So, man, this is hard because I can almost guarantee you he would have a, uh, an other side of the story. Um, well, that's why I guess my question is, I don't really know when, how do you choose or when do you face a line where you have to choose? Cause I've heard callers call into your show before and say things like, I wish I would have done something differently. And I just don't want to be in a position that I wish I would have done something sooner or later to have, you know, that's a great, great question. Um, and I'm trying to be sensitive to my own home and keep some space between

intensely private things in my house and also be open. Um, I can tell you over the last 12 years with both of my kids, there's been seasons when my wife will say to me, or I will say to her, I would like to see this different with our kid. And both of us have enough trust with one another that we can at least have, I trust that you're right, or I trust at least it's worth another conversation. Or I can say things like, I don't like where the state of y'all's relationship, I'm going to lean in for a while, and I'm going to take this for a season. Because there just needs to be some space here, and vice versa, right?

And so that's as much as I want to get into it without going into too many details. And none of it's bad or salacious. It's just us leaning on each other and being willing to speak truth to each other. And so if I'm you, I would take my – like the same advice I give everybody. I would take them out and say, listen, you're losing your sons. And there's few things in the world more important than a son's relationship to his dad. Your sons will chase his blessing for their entire life, even if they hate him. They are desperate for him to hug them. They are desperate for them, for him to put his hands on the back of their neck or hold their face and look them in the eye and say, I love you. I'm

glad you're my son. They are desperate for that. So desperate that they will seek that in a million different places. And they will chase and chase and chase and chase until their world is ash. And I would speak that directly to them. And what it looks like is something as simple as my son, Hank, and I go to breakfast at Waffle House once a week. I do bedtimes with both my kids every night. I treat their mother really well. I take my son with me places. I try.

My daughter doesn't like to always leave the house, but I take them everywhere. I took my daughter to the store with me the other day. I take my son with me places. I intentionally build in some time because when you take a kid to the store, it takes another 45 minutes. And when I take my son fishing, we're going to catch less fish, right? Because I'm going to be untangling things and whatever. And so I'm just building that into my life

because I love my kids. And like you mentioned, you said it perfectly. I'm raising young that into my life because I love my kids. And like you mentioned, you said it perfectly. I'm raising young adults, right? I've got a finite amount of time and influence. But it's not even about that. It's about, I love them. And I like spending time with them. I would have that conversation with your husband in a very direct way. This needs to change. And what you have to be prepared for is him to say, no, it's not going to. I don't like them. They annoy me. I don't want them around me. I don't know what I'm doing. And he has a right to opt out. That becomes a pretty tough character issue, but you're going to have to,

here's what I'm saying. You can't be a peacemaker anymore. You've got to put it on the line and say something. And to answer your original question, you always, always, always protect the kids. Always. That's one of my core value rules when it comes to working in these kinds of situations. Kids come first. Thank you. You got real quiet on me. That was just a lot to take in um i think take me to that conversation uh you're scared of that conversation why yeah um he because it i don't think it'll go

over well um because i don't well no i know that he doesn't be a problem. Like whenever I've told him before, Hey, the, you know, one kid has come to me and asked me to talk to you about this one thing for them. Cause they're scared to, or, you know, they weren't comfortable with it. Like he kind of brushes that off. But that's really, there's no reason they should feel uncomfortable. And that's where you stop and say, but they do. And they do because you don't ever talk to them. You never take them places. You have no input in their life other than to make your dad. You've said that zero times. That's why. And I'm just telling you right now, here's my promise to you, Holly. My promise is this. Avoiding this conversation is choosing to pick the illusion of stability over the heartfelt reality that you fought for your sons

when nobody else would. And I also am not naive. I know that some of these conversations end very badly. But what I would tell you is that ending will come sooner or later, whether you have this conversation or not. So you might as well have it. You'll want to be able to look at your sons at some point if their dad abandons them and say, I went down swinging for you guys.

Because y'all deserve to have a dad. And he was struggling. It wasn't y'all deserve to have a dad and he was struggling. It wasn't y'all's fault. I recommend doing this. Write down what you want to say and be very specific. Don't say things like, I feel and I feel like that feelings are great and they're important, but they're easily dismissed in these kinds of conversations. Be very specific. You haven't, I haven't seen, the boys are desperate for,

they're avoiding you, they're scared of you. Here's the context we've built. And here's a couple of things I'm asking you to start doing. Tell our boys you love them every freaking day. Stop what you're doing, close your computer,

put your phone down and hug our sons every day. Stop what you're doing. Close your computer, put your phone down and hug our sons every day. Every day, ask them, what was the best part of your day? Once a week, take each one of them out to breakfast. You can do that. Once a week, take each one of them on a walk. You can do that. And my hope is maybe he just doesn't know. Maybe he thinks they don't like him. Maybe he's never seen this happen. And this is all weird and new because his dad didn't talk to him. Fine. He's got to make a change or he's about to lose his two boys. A 12 and a 14 year old are about to head off into the woods without him. If they haven't already. Thank you for loving them. This is where that love gets real hard.

But they're lucky to have you as their mom, Holly. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst.

If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the

costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, we're back, Jack. Let's go to Rob in Miami, Florida. Welcome to Miami. What's up, Rob? What's going on, Dr. John? It's a privilege and an honor to be on the Best Mental Health

and Relationship Podcast. It's catching on, brother. That's awesome. Thanks, Rob. What's up, dude? How can I help, man? My question was, how do I identify what my needs are

in relationship to marriage, relationships, work, ministry, et cetera? Dude, that's a dope question. All right, so how can you identify what your needs are? Tell me more. So basically, um, about two years ago, I started a journey into bettering my mental and emotional health. Um, and I realized, um, I've never been asked, you know, the question you always ask in

your podcast, which is, you know, sit down with your wife and ask, what are your needs? These are my needs. And, uh, I've tried that with my wife. And when she asked me, she's very straight to the point, Hey, I need you to clean this, do this. They got the garbage. When she asked me, I just draw a blank. I'm not used to being asked what are your needs? I'm used to supplying the needs. Ah, man. Dude.

You're an absolute rock star, Rob. Was growing up hard or was it pretty smooth sailing? It was pretty tough. Yeah. You spent a lot of your life making sure everybody else is all right haven't you correct yes sir okay and there's honor and valor in that and there's beauty in that and it's finite

because the longer you go without changing the oil and without giving yourself a checkup and without changing the tires the shorter the life is right? And so your ability to help others and to love others and to do well for other people Is shortened if you don't take care of yourself if you don't understand what your needs are and ask for help in meeting those things I can't tell you how proud I am of you, man It's you're asking the million dollar question and I'm so proud of you. I also want to challenge your wife and she's not on the phone. So she's given you a series of tasks. All right. Like a series of things that she is like a honeydew list. I'm going to suggest needs are deeper than that.

Okay? So here's the way you can find those needs. Here's all I want you to do. Get a small, you have like a smartphone? Yes. All right, cool. Just keep the notes app on your phone open. And I want you to start writing down when you get mad,

when you get angry, when you get sad, when you get frustrated, right? Your emotions are signals. And for you, when you shut down, I want you to write that down. What just happened that makes you check out, that makes your body go into neutral? What makes you want to hit somebody in the mouth? What makes you want to just back up and have another beer or back up and just head out of the house because she's going again or he's going again, whatever's going on? Your emotions are signals. And it's just simply learning to read.

It's like you're in a new country and you don't know the language and you see all these signs along the road and you just need to learn what the signs say. That's what we're doing here, okay? And your body is a great signaler. And most people in your situation have spent their entire lives learning how to shut those signals off so they can just be about getting the job done

so people quit hassling them. Is that fair? Yes, sir. Okay. When your body begins to say, every time somebody comes at me, I shut down. That's a need. Hey, honey, whenever you get really mad at me, I shut down and I'm working on it. But if you need something from me, I'm going to ask, can you just write it down for a season

and put it on this little note card for me? Or when I come in the door and the first thing you start doing is starting rattling on all 15 things I need to get done today. I need you when I walk in the door. Can you just holler at me and I'll come find you and we can just hug for five seconds. It just helps calm me down a little bit. Your hugs bring me peace. Be a gift to me. That's what I'm looking at. Okay. Or I need 10 minutes when I walk in the door just to transition from my job to my home. I just need 10 minutes. Can I have 10 minutes? And those are where you start uncovering what your needs are. Okay?

And here's where it's going to get really hard. A couple of them you're going to be embarrassed about. You're going to feel ashamed of. Like I did when I asked my wife, hey, occasionally can you just tell me that you're proud of me? Because I'm doing all this for you. And that was embarrassing for me to say out loud. Some men desperately need sex, but some men desperately need their wife, the person who loves them just to hold their hand,

sit by them, not ask for anything, just be with. And that sounds very unmasculine. It sounds very like, oh my gosh, are you serious? Yes, I'm serious. So whatever your needs happen to be, that's what they happen to be. Hey, can we just watch a show together? Can we go for a walk together? Right. And the more you look, listen to your body, send you signals through these emotions, these feelings, whatever,

the closer you're going to get to it. How's that sound? That sounds good. Sounds plain, easy to follow. Yeah, it is, but there's layers to it, okay? So there's going to come a season when you keep thinking the floor is falling out from under you. You're going to think you've got it, and then you're going to get really mad about something. And it's that moment when you can go, ah, okay, what's my body trying to tell me here? Or you're going to just get up to go get another piece of cake or another donut and then another donut. You're going to ask yourself, okay, what's my body trying to tell me here? I may just need some sleep.

I may just need to go to exercise for 30 minutes. Or I may need to sit down and have a hard conversation with my wife. Does that make sense? Yes, sir. And the next time y'all sit down and have this conversation, I'm so freaking proud of you for even having this conversation. Next time you sit down and she starts rattling off, I need you to paint this. I need you to get the dishes up. I need you to get the trash taken out. I want you to say, excellent. Those are a series of tasks I can do. I can do those jobs.

Beneath that though, sweetheart, what do you need from me? Do you need me to be more present? Do you need me to work less? Do you need me to shower more? What do you need from me? Because I'm going to lean in. And she's going to give you a couple of needs that are going to make you feel uncomfortable. And again, that discomfort, that's your body sending you a signal.

What is it? What's your body trying to tell you? So this is a one, two, three-year journey you're on now, man, to actually start asking yourself, what do I need? And here's what's really fun about needs. They shift and they change. They move. And that makes them fun. Right when you think you got them. You know what? I need less touch in this season. I need more exercise. You know what? I need less exercise in the season, more sleep. You know what I need? I need more. Just let's go on dates. I need less dates. I just

need more wild, rambunctious sex. You know what? I need less crazy sex and I need more boring, married person sex. Just straight up boring connectivity need less crazy sex and I need more boring married person sex, just straight up boring connectivity, whatever it looks like, man. It's getting in touch with that cycle that you're going to have and needs and needs and needs. And it becomes such a fun adventure to do with your spouse. So fun because her needs shift, your needs shift. And then the goal becomes not trying to hold those needs stable, but it becomes, man, how can I meet those needs? That's a fun adventure, man. Doesn't get much more fun than that. Brother, I'm proud of you, Rob.

Keep getting to know yourself. Keep getting to know your wife. Man, y'all are in for a fun, fun adventure. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. Let's go to Diana in Philadelphia. What's up, Diana? Hi, Dr. John.

Yes. How's it going? Oh, you know, it's always sunny in Philadelphia. It's always, except when the Astros win the World Series. So what's up? Oh, no. Thank you for the opportunity for connecting today. I know I recently came across some of your work and I appreciate everything you do. So thanks for the

opportunity. But I am calling today because I've been struggling with an issue of essentially not being comfortable with my fiance's close work relationship with his female manager. Ruh-roh. Okay. How long have y'all been together? We've been together now almost five years. Five years. Okay. How long has this relationship been going on between him and his boss? It's like since the pandemic, but like what's really starting to bother me is like the past,

you know, two years or so. So he switched positions. And so like the first part of that was, you know, two years or so. So he switched positions. And so like the first part of that was, you know, everybody was working from home and it was back into the office. So it's kind of been manifesting like the last, you know, one and a half to two years. All right. So what are you seeing that's setting off your alarm systems? Yeah. So, you know, I'm like observing like just changes in like his behavior and i think like hold on what does that mean is he like starting to unbutton his shirt more is he like wearing deep v's like uh like oh gross don't shaving shaving more shaving more before work

caring a little bit more about his appearance uh no v-shirts but all right yeah right, yeah. If he starts wearing deep Vs, that's just the sign. You're done. This thing's not going to last. Okay, good. Okay, so he's being more hygienic. What else? Yeah. You know, I noticed, like, some inconsistencies.

So I guess the other layer to this is we also work together at the same company. Dude, you got a lead with that one. So you're watching this happen. I'm watching it happen. Yes. So yeah, we work together. I work, not the same department, not even the same office. He's in a different part of the city even.

But so like, you know, we know each other's jobs. We know each other's backgrounds. I'm in a little bit higher leadership position at the company. So it makes it complex because I don't want to mix professional with personal. But, you know, this kind of merges here. Hey, Diana, it's already mixed. Yeah. Yeah.

So let's just call it what it is. It's mixed. You work with a guy that is beneath you positionally. And I couldn't have said that more awkward and you're dating him for a long time and now he something about that relationship is it something okay is it something you know about her or is it something you know about him or is it are you watching this thing happen or do you just not like another woman having this type of power over him because she's his boss yeah i think for me it's like i'm observing things it's the travel it's

the like not returning texts it's not being able to answer my call when he's on business it's the sharing of the rental vehicles it's you know like know, like the stories where, you know, well, the whole group's going down, but then it's like three people and not six, you know, or, you know, well, everybody's sharing the car, but it's just them, you know? So, and it's like, I know all this just because like I'm within earshot in a way. So it's, it's all that, that bothers me, you know, because like when we are together any other time, it's like, we have good communication and we have a very healthy relationship. Like, um, but it's like when he's on travel, I can tell that it's like, well, you know, nine to five, I'm working and then we're all going to dinner. And then they go to

the bar till 10 30 at night. And know he will call me but it's like very distant or you know there's times where like he won't answer the phone um you know if they're all at breakfast in the morning and then he'll say it's like well it's rude to answer when you're talking to somebody else and i'm like well it's me you know so things like that so this is, oh man. I'm only talking to you here, okay? Yes. And that's what I need. Yeah.

This sounds a lot like your problem, not his. Yeah. And here's why. I think he's right. If you're having breakfast with work colleagues to sit there at the table and it sounds like he is out traveling, doing work, and you want to have the same relationship, the same communication, same yeah communication patterns that you have in in when he's there in person and you simply can't and i think it is patently unwise to travel all over the country like yes he is playing with fire let's make no mistake about it no question about that okay i think it's un. Okay, I think it's unwise. Okay I just think it's unwise um

And so I think that's worthy of a conversation both professionally and personally in your relationship But this doesn't sound like no dude she's always draped all over him or she sends him a bunch of emoji texts in the middle of the night or He's got a special private joke collection with her that he doesn't have with me. Like, I'm not hearing any of that. I'm hearing, yes, they're both putting themselves in positions that are uniformly dumb in today's world. It's just dumb, right? But I hear more, I expect him to call me back when he's working.

Well, maybe he can't. Or I expect him to get up and leave a breakfast or a dinner. See what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Let me ask more specifically. Why haven't y'all set up a time? Hey, right when you wake up, call me. I want to be the first call when you wake up.

Yeah. Have y'all set that up? Yeah, I mean, it's hit and miss. Sometimes he'll do that. He'll go to the gym and he'll call me. Yeah. Have y'all set that up? prior to like the pandemic. Um, we're lucky we are in a hybrid situation now. And they're like the only ones typically, um, in that section of their office. So like, you know, we'll, he'll call me, you know, at lunchtime to say, how, how's your day going? And then, you know, I'll hear her in the background or she'll ask like who, you know, he's talking to. And like, there has been times where like, he wouldn't even end the call with, and I love you because he didn't want, you know, he would say, oh, well, I didn't want them to know I'm on a personal call. And, but I'm like, that's like silly because like, that's like an unrealistic expectation that you can never take a personal call.

And it's not like it, like that's like hurtful. Like it almost feels to me like he was trying to segregate like his relationship with me from like his work relationship at signs. So here's the best thing you can do moving forward. You can be very, very honest with him in less than an accusatory way. You're doing this and you're doing this but a very vulnerable make this all your problem not his yeah here's how i and i have i have approached it like that and like that's where you know i have been um you know like trying to like go down that route and be like listen i know uh you know, I admit to like even in my pre I did have infidelity in my previous marriage. And that wasn't like the deal breaker.

So I feel like I am hypersensitive. Him and I were, you know, coworkers before we were even together. So like the realism, the whole work wife thing, you know, it's real. But at the same time, like I would never tell him you can never talk to another woman or you always have to drop everything for me. Like, I don't feel that way. Like I have to be able to interact in society and I would never say quit your job because I don't like someone, you know, but it's at the point where when I do try to talk about it and take accountability, he'll just get super angry. And then his anger then fuels me to think, well, is there some truth to it?

So you are absolutely right there. Yeah. Absolutely right there. Yeah. A conversation my wife and I had recently was I told her I want to talk more on the phone with you and the kids when I'm traveling and what I realized was she was trying to really be the most supportive spouse she could be and that was man I don't want to call you if you're on stage I've been in the wings about to go on stage and she's called and I've taken the call just because I just think that's fun. And she

can hear the crowd. She's like, what are you doing? It's like, I'm about to go on stage. And she's like, oh my gosh, get off the phone. And, or my kids have called me as I'm walking into an interview for a radio. So she has, in an attempt to love me better, minimized phone calls. She doesn't want to bother me. And so I said, hey, I need more contact on the road. If I call you, we know that I'm trying to reach out. I want to connect. If you get a moment, just call. I'd love it when you call.

And if I can't take it, I won't take it. And so here's the deal. She was trying to love me the best she could. And then I was able to say, hey, here's what my need is in this season. And it might be that one day I'm like, Hey, I need you to call less.

Like I've, it's just too wild on the road right now. And so all I have to say is this, you can just speak your needs as you need them. And I don't like that. He's getting all mad and angry and frustrated. That is, that would set off my alarms too.

But here's the deal. You can't control that. You have to make a choice. And you've been burned before. You're starting to feel like you're getting burned again. And I would trust your feelings. And I would trust those alarm systems that are going off. I would also be very, very real. I would ask my,

I would demand evidence from my feelings is the way I'll say it. Is he cheating? Is he about to cheat? Is he getting pretty dang close to cheating? Or is it my alarms to people cheating going off? And those don't have to be mutually exclusive, but here's the deal. At the end of the day, you got to make a choice. And if you go through this relationship, you go it i can hear it on you you feel like you're losing it you're going to get married and you're going to find yourself in another mess again less because you have a husband that our fiance that has a boss who's a woman more so you said hey here's what i'm struggling with here's some of my needs and he got pissed yeah exactly like i'm more disappointed in the fact

that like he you know wouldn't just even say i'm chasing ghosts right i control that like but the fact that he just wouldn't honor, um, and at least like to say, Hey, you know, I get how you're feeling and let's talk through this. Or is there some middle ground? I mean, I even went to the point where it's like, like you said, I take accountability. Maybe I'm, I'm wrong. And so I'm like, maybe I, you know, maybe we meet if she's important to you, I want her to be important to me. And that's fair. I mean, there's other people that, you know, we have common friends, other coworkers, other female coworkers. Um, and like, even the first time I met her, it was like very awkward. Like she wouldn't even introduce herself to me for the first five minutes. I had to introduce myself. Um, I've

extended the olive branch. I said, Hey, I know, you know, I mentor a lot of different people in our company. I've invited her to come have coffee with me, you know, participate with a training session with my team. And she's really always been standoffish. And it's like, even I would feel better if, you know, I'd call and I did hear her in the background. She's like, Oh, you know, say, tell Diana, I said, hi, you know, things like that. But it's, it's like, oh, you know, say, tell Diana I said hi. You know, things like that. But it's very, it's very, like, hard for me to feel the comfort. But she doesn't owe me anything. I feel like I'm more disappointed and slightly betrayed with him. Are you done with the relationship?

No. No. I mean, if I was, I wouldn't be, like, looking to fix things. Okay. The things you're, now you're telling me, the way she responds to you, the way he responds when you bring things up. I think you're right. I think you're right. I think your intuition's right. And earlier in this call, I said, this is your problem to deal with. It is. But I think your intuition's right. And earlier in this call, I said, this is your problem to deal with.

It is. But I think your intuition's right. Something's not okay. Right. And I'm heartbroken for you. Yeah. Like, I feel like because you mentioned, like, having that, like, evidence-based, it's like, you know, I feel like it's not like that full-fledged affair. I feel it's just like early stage.

Hold on, hold on. Now you're guessing and you're hoping. I'm guessing. I'm guessing and I'm hoping. You're guessing and you're hoping. Yes. Because you don't think psychologically and spiritually and emotionally you can handle somebody else cheating on you. Maybe. And so here's your path forward it's not a pretty one um it's a pretty direct conversation with him and before i have that conversation with them, I would be very, very specific about your needs.

And man, if somebody feels awkward saying I love you at the office, I'm okay with that. That's fine. I don't want to be weird. That sounds like a strange work environment, but so be it. Be very specific. Here's what I need from you moving forward. And before that conversation, okay, let me back up here. You only have one path forward and it's going to be very uncomfortable. And it's going to be you directly asking, are you having an affair?

Are you cheating on me? And this isn't a time for rage or... He's got to have a safe place where he can tell the truth. Rage will come. Madness and anger will come. But this needs to be a safe, factual conversation. Are you having an affair? And if he gets mad and throws a fit,

say, I'm going to end this conversation right now because you're not having this conversation like an adult and we'll circle back and have this tomorrow. But I need you to be honest with me. I need you to have enough dignity and respect for me. Just as a person, as your friend, as somebody you say you've loved, somebody you've been with for five years,

just tell me if you're having an affair, tell me. This is a moment to not be a coward, a moment to have character. And if you're not having an affair and you want to continue to be with me and you want to get married to me and spend the rest of our lives together, here's what I need. And you've got to be real specific. And the reason this is going to be gnarly, Diana, is he might say, yes, I am having an affair. He might say, I haven't had an affair, but I've got feelings for my boss.

He might say, no, I'm not having an affair. And the fact that you are accusing me makes me not want to be with you anymore. All those things can happen. And the only offering of light I can give you in that moment is that was gonna that was gonna come crashing down at some point And it's better to do it now before you are legally married My hope is he says i'm so sorry No, i'm not cheating on you never have I don't know how to act in this work environment. It's weird And i'm trying to be a good employee. I also want to be a good

Fiance to you. I want to build a life together. I'm just kind of a good employee. I also want to be a good fiance to you. I want to build a life together. I'm just kind of over my head. I don't know what to do. And you, as a woman who is higher up in the company than he is, who has had men reporting to you, you can walk through. Here's what's appropriate and here's what's not. Here's what's okay for you to say and here's what's not. And go from there. But there's no way forward without some really direct,

really direct, hard, on-the-nose conversations. No beating around the bush. No like, well, I've been thinking about, are you cheating on me? I need to know. And I deserve at least that much. And if not, and you still want to be with me, let's be very clear what I need moving forward. And tell me what you need moving forward.

Let's work on this together. I'm so sorry, Dana. Hey, let me know how that conversation goes. I want to know what he says and where things stand. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet

has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com all right we are back in honor of kelly's big neck tattoo that she got recently you can't see because of her hair she's got a big tattoo of elvis presley uh his face um young elvis by the way not old elvis young elvis looks good it's a good i wouldn't got on my neck but it looks good um in honor of her new tattoo today's song song of the day is Elvis Presley's Suspicious Minds. It goes like this. We're caught in a trap. I can't walk out because I love you too much, baby.

Why can't you see what you're doing to me when you don't believe a word I say? We can't go on together with suspicious minds and we can't build our dreams on suspicious minds. So if an old friend I know stops by to say hello, but I still see suspicion in your eyes, you can't see these tears are real. I'm crying. Yes, I'm crying. Lucky for you all, Kelly, she never cries. We'll see you soon.