The Dr. John Delony Show - Bipolar Disorder, Workplace Drama, & Mom's Having an Affair

Episode Date: January 22, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU! Show Notes for this Episode 3:20: My wife suffers from Bipolar disorder. She gave me her debit card and I'm afraid her family will think I am too controlling. 13:51: My mom is having an affair and my dad is confiding in my younger sibling. As the oldest, what is my role in this family crisis? 30:48: Issue at work. I am torn between loyalty to the current boss and the one about to take her place. 41:50: Lyrics of the Day: Gregorian Chant tag: bipolar disorder, marriage, money, family, infidelity, workplace/career, anger/resentment/bitterness These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Hey, on today's show, we talk to a young man whose wife has bipolar disorder, and he wants to know some things he can do to help her out. We also talk to a woman whose dad announced to her younger sister, Mom's been cheating on me, and she wants to know what she can do. And finally, we talk to a young woman who's trapped in the middle of a family business and the family drama that goes with it. And by the way, we may talk about whether Santa Claus is real or not, so if you want this to be the moment for your kids,

have everybody stay tuned. Dude, I'm Deloney, and welcome to the Dr. John Deloney Show. This show is about you, your lives, the good, the bad, the U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi. When things are smelling like roses and when things are smelling like a giant box of F-A-R-T-S. I've been walking alongside folks just like you for two decades. Whether your life is just doing great or you're sitting in the ashes of a burned out mess, I've been there, I've seen it, and I'm here to walk alongside you. I've committed my life trying to figure out what's going on in my life, in my marriage, in my home, with my kids, and how I can help you walk alongside the people that you love, the people you interact with, the people you don't like, and feel how we can learn how to be people again, and

especially be okay with that angry, sad, frustrated, or just overjoyed person that we see in the mirror. So if you're new to our band of ninjas, we talk about everything on this show, from mental health challenges, to your marriage, marriage to parenting to what you eat relational iq questions schooling education everything and sometimes like today we've got to pause and say enough is freaking enough with the new 2021 planners in all of these stupid ribbons in all of the day planners people enough i saw. I saw a new day planner. It had 711 different colored ribbons in it. One for the new goal for the day. And then you go back to the next

one and then you flip the other ribbon around and then you braid them and then you slap it up, flip it, rub it down. Oh no. All these ribbons. So there's another one and then another one and then another one. All of them have too many ribbons. good folks give me ribbons are in this yellow pad zero or on a note card zero my friend christy write her journal zero you can make a rad super productive good annual journal with zero ribbons or maybe one if you just want to know where you're going to be. They used to call that a bookmark. That's back in the old days when we had just books with one ribbon in it. One ribbon, let's call it good. So whatever's going on in your life, give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. Or you can go to johndeloney.com slash show. And seriously,

if you're making journals, you're already thinking about the journal for 2022. Enough with the ribbons. I'm going to keep going back to that. Enough with the ribbons. All right, let's go. Let's see here. Let's just go right to the phones.

Let's do that. Let's go to Ben in Niagara Falls in Ontario. Ben, what's up, brother? How we doing? I'm all right. How are you? I'm doing so good. How's Niagara Falls?

It's not bad. It's about zero degrees, and it's pretty good. It's about zero degrees. It is just under 50 here in Nashville, and the city shut down. They pretty much think it's over here, and that they were lied to, hell is actually frozen, and it is upon us, right? Zero degrees, that's so, that's wild. You guys call it 32. Ah, well played, I see what you did there, that was good.

I support that joke, that was good. And you're on the beautiful side of Niagara Falls, is that right? Yeah, we call it the beautiful side. Yeah, I do too. I went up there when I was a young child. There's the sad, lonely side, and then there's the beautiful, stunning Vegas side. So that's where you are.

So that's very cool. So, Brother Ben, how can I help, man? Well, my wife has, like, she's diagnosed with bipolar type 1. Okay. And so she has some problems like overspending with groceries and stuff like that even when she has a list. We've been trying

to do cash. When we explain it to family that I'm holding onto a debit card, I don't want it to come off as controlling. How do I balance those two out like that out man that's a great question so let's do this for the listeners i get a lot of questions and a lot of calls about bipolar disorder um and so there's type one right which is what we think of the traditional manic depressive real high highs can do anything in two or three days that takes most of us a couple of weeks to do and then really low lows um not getting out of

bed for days and weeks at a time and making decisions that when folks are manic when they're in a depressed state that normally they wouldn't make and then there's the type two which is the hypomania that the highs aren't quite as high, the lows aren't quite as low, depending on where you may fall in that trajectory. And there's some literature that suggests type one is like schizophrenia. It's a true mental health disorder. And bipolar two is more of a learned responsive behavior. But they're still arguing about that up in their laboratories. And so, I'd love for you to just walk through for the average listener, what's it like being married to somebody with Diagnose Type 1? Well, it's hard to keep track of sometimes.

It's like we've been trying to, on the Dave Ramsey program. And it's just, if I give her a debit card, then sometimes like she'll go to Costco for like, maybe like $150 and stuff. And she'll come back with $400 saying, well, we need this, this, and this. And it sort of makes sense. Um, it sort of makes sense, the argument that she's making, but it's not necessary. If that sort of makes sense. So let she's making but it's not necessary if that sort of makes sense I want to talk not about money

for just a second I want to know what it's like being married to someone with bipolar disorder outside of the money walk through somebody who wouldn't have the first thing about being married to somebody who's just lives on that up and down cycle what's that

like what's your marriage like? What is your dating life? What is, um, well, like if it, when things are good, it's, it's fantastic. But like when things are bad, it's like, it's like wars going on, you know? And what, what's the thing that's bad? Give us an example. So like if she gets into a low um everything will throw her off um like we were having breakfast the other day and she was just she was kind of feeling in a low but she wasn't sure if she was like in a in a right down depressive low um and we were having breakfast we were having eggs and she dropped one of the eggs which isn't that big of a deal because like we can just clean it up there's no problem problem. And she just started to cry. And, and that, like,

that was just the end of the end of her day. And, you know, it was like, it was nine 30 in the morning. We're just having breakfast and her day was over. Right. Um, and so with stuff like that, you just like, I, I try to, you know, kind of just be like, okay, calm down. Like everything's okay. It's just an egg. Never say those words ever again, as long as you live. Okay. That's between you and me. You didn't even call for that.

Never say the words calm down. Right. I don't physically say it, but I just like try to like help her through it. You know, I asked her like, like what's going on? How are you feeling? You know, we try to just bring the situation to a normal, like a level playing field, if that sort of makes sense. So it sounds like she won the lottery because she married somebody who loves her,

regardless of the challenges that she faces. Before, she's got a guy who has devoted his life to her, and he's working to figure that out. Is that fair? Well, I mean, I went through my own depression and suicide stint for a couple years, and she's stuck with me through that as well. I'm doing way better now. Hold on. I'm trying to say something nice about you, Ben.

Don't deflect, okay? Can I say something nice about you? Sure. All right. Sounds like she married a guy who loves her and is doing his best to support her and care for her. Is that fair?

Yeah. Alright, so all the way from Nashville to Ontario, brother, I want to high-five you and tell you that I wish there were more guys like you out in the world and I'm glad that you're I'm glad that you are walking alongside her during a tough season and that you are leaning in and investing in helping her be whole. So good for you, brother.

So as it comes to the reason why you called, talking about debit cards, has her family actually told you, hey, we think this is nonsense, this controlling behavior, or is this stuff that you're imagining into the future might happen someday? Well, yeah, I think I'm more imagining it. Like nobody's come right out and told me, but she's told me that she kind of feels like a child with it as well. So that's where I don't really know how to approach it then. Sure. Does that make sense? Yeah.

So when you came up with the debit card, so it's just for folks listening, folks, especially with type one bipolar, spending is a great dopamine release. It's a common thing that folks do when they're manic. They will take their money. They will actually earn a lot of money. They do well, and then they go just spend it like mad. Or if they don't have money, they will charge up obscene amounts of money during a manic state, and then they will begin to get these bills in, and that will help facilitate a fall into a depressive state once they realize the shame and they experience this in really deep ways. So, one of the things that we, when we're talking

to someone with bipolar is they've got to set up, especially if they're going to be getting counseling, if they're going to be taking medication, and they're going to be actively involved in getting better, they've got to set up some really high hurdles for themselves, some strong roadblocks for getting well. Somebody who overspends is going to give away their ability to spend. In their more lucid state, when they are well and whole, they're going to say, I understand that. I'm not capable of controlling myself during the season. I'm going to give that away. They got to come up with different behaviors and someone who loves them is going to hold them accountable. Whether it's a friend, it's a husband like you is going to take their debit card and

hang on to it. Then there's going to be low seasons where they come after you or super high seasons where they come after you. I feel like a baby. You're treating me like I'm a child, whatever. And that's when someone who loves somebody with bipolar has to hang on and weather that storm. My guess is, Ben, if you told her family that y'all had talked through this and y'all were working together and that this is one of the strategies y'all came up with, they would celebrate you. Is there a chance that would happen? That they would think, oh, that's awesome, Ben, way to go? Or are they going to side with her and say you're a jerk trying to control her daughter? No, I think they might agree with it because they've seen her spending behaviors as well. There you go.

So, Ben, I think you're in a win here, and I think you're projecting a potential negative outcome out into the future. Here's what I'd recommend, man. If your wife is cool with it, as y'all co-create, and when I say co-create, I mean y'all are making this plan together because she's got to be invested in getting well and doing all the things, whether that's exercise, whether that is a accountability routine that when she is super, super low that someone's going to walk in and y'all are going to go for a walk together where she's really high. Someone's going to say, hey, we're clocking out of work today. Whatever that looks like, we're going to eat.

We're going to change our diet so that these highs maybe aren't quite so high, aren't quite so low in conjunction with medication that some folks with type one have to be on forever. That's a part of a total wellness plan that you and her and a doctor are going to work together on. But if she's amenable to it, get her family involved too. There can't be too many people in a helping circle for somebody who's struggling with bipolar unless that family was a part of the original problem in the first place. And so if her family has been abusive or obnoxious or idiots or destructive over the course of her life, then of course don't bring them in. And here's the final thing, brother.

If you and your wife are working together to create a life where y'all can both be well, both be whole, who cares what her parents say? When you got married, their voice went to number two or sometimes way down to the bottom of that list. I don't care what they have to say. If it's working for you and your wife, then it's working for you and your wife. And so good for you for being a husband who cares. Whatever the behaviors have to be, I've read or discussed with folks who have to take every shred of alcohol out of the house, have to take cash out of the house, have to take their partner's debit card, have to take car keys. There's all sorts of behaviors. When someone is learning new coping behaviors, and sometimes with bipolar, it takes a season to do that. In a season, it could be six months, it could be a year, it could be two years, it could

be several years. You sometimes have to be extreme. And then those who play accountability, you got to weather that storm because they're going to come after you because that's the nature of this beast, and you've got to stand strong. So good for you. All right, let's go to Kelly in Nashville. Kelly, what's going on in Nashville? How are you? Hi, Dr. John.

I'm doing good. How are you? Good. I just said, like, how's Nashville? Like, it's really far away. I'm down the street from you probably, some shape, form, or fashion. So are you enjoying the snow? Is this wild or what?

Well, I'm originally from Ohio, so I came down here to get away from the snow. This is like mid-August for you, so that's cool. Right. All right, Kelly, so what's going on? How can I help? Well, so almost 10 years ago, we found out that my mom had been having an affair with a man in the neighborhood. And obviously things were tense for a little bit, but my parents decided to stay together and work things out. Since that time, neither of them,

from my point of view, have really made any significant changes or efforts towards a healthier marriage? So I guess flash forward a couple days before Christmas, I got a call from my sister saying that my dad had found more emails that my mom had sent to this man. Um, and my sister felt the pressure kind of not to say anything to me, but really to either, well, my other sibling. Um, so, but she couldn't really carry it all by herself. So she was obviously telling me, um, and since that time she's admitted to my dad that she did tell me. And so she was kind of pulled in as a mediator at the moment. And I, you know, and so then I was the support for the mediator in secret. What a mess. Hey, so real quick, real quick. So did your mom kick back up this affair with this dude or did your dad find stuff from 10 years ago no it's back ah okay and the way you said it the dude in the neighborhood so the dude in the neighborhood

still is in the neighborhood and so he's he's back in action right and how old how old are you i'm 29 okay and how old your little sister? 26. Okay. So we're all adults. Except for your parents, but go ahead. Well, right. Well, and so my sister has since admitted to my dad that she told me. So, you know, my dad followed up with me and kind of got, I guess, my thoughts on the situation. I don't know if anyone has told my brother or not.

I did also end up reaching out to my mom to just to let her know that I still love her and I still support her. But really my question today, I'm just trying to figure out what is my responsibility in this situation to my family as a whole? And then, you know, what's my responsibility to my mom, my dad, my brother, my sister, each as individuals? That's a great question. And just for the record, I hate that you got drawn into this. I hate that your dad did that to your sister and triangulated her in that way. He should have some friends and some confidants or a counselor or a place where he can go and talk to grownups about these challenges. And I hate that for your sister and your poor brother. How old is he?

He's 27. Yeah, leave it to the brother. Just like, hey, everybody, what y'all doing, right? Has no idea. Just bebopping along, right's 27. Yeah, leave it to the brother. Just like, hey, everybody, what y'all doing? Right? Has no idea. Just bebopping along, right? Exactly. So, um, here's my thought. Um, hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Thought number one is secrets destroy families, period. And my guess is if there has been, um, 10 years absence here and there's been no reconnection, and I would tell you as much as you think you know and you can see, you probably know 25 to 35% of what actually goes on behind closed doors with your mom and dad. And so what I would challenge you with is staying out of the y'all didn't do any work, the judgment part of what went on behind closed doors, because that's going to make you nuts and it's going to make your parents have to fight

their kids and don't do that to them. Unfortunately, you're forced to be the adult here. If I'm you and I've got a sister and a brother, I would call them, we'd have a three-way talk and we would talk it out and let everybody be on the same page because I'm not going to hold secrets from my brother and sister because I'm an adult. And if my dad were to call me and burden me with that, I would let him know. I'm going to let my brother and sister know because I'm not your therapist, and I'm not bound by confidentiality. Now, I'm not going to go tell the neighborhood, right, but I am not going to hold secrets so that we're all together and we're all on different pages and different stories. I think what you did for your mom is to let her know that you love her is noble. I think that's good. She's going to need some support. I also think it's good for you to let your dad know that

you love him. What I would do is send them both something in writing, your mom and your dad at the same time that says, we all know we're not going to get involved in your marriage. I don't, and you can feel free to say what's on your heart and your mind, but let them know we are not going to be triangulated into this mess. They are responsible for dealing with their marriage and they're responsible for dealing with their relationship with each other and the dude in the neighborhood and whoever else and whatever else. But you can't solve that. You can't get in the middle of it, and all you're going to do is wage war with your brother and sister and your family. And at this point, you've got to be the grown-up in that deal.

I know I'm telling you to do something hard, which is to not get right down in the middle of that mud, because that's tempting, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Are you angry with any one of them or both of them? Or heartbroken? What are you feeling? my sister kept telling me she thought that I was kind of emotionally disconnected from the situation because I think 10 years ago when it happened,

um, I kind of came to terms. Well, and maybe I didn't, maybe I just repressed it, but I felt like I'd kind of come to terms with, um, maybe they'll stay together.

Maybe they won't. But I think, um, the thing that kind of kept me going was knowing that regardless, God was still faithful in my life, regardless of what happened. So that was kind of my anchor. And I was real close with both of them growing up. Um, I think my dad and I in the past year or so, um, have kind of butt heads sometimes a little, um, uh, so there's part of me that's angry with him because I've seen some of the ways that, uh, he's hurt my mom. And like you said, you know, I've probably not seen all of it. Obviously it goes both ways.

So that in some degrees has made me angry at him. With my mom, I've been angry. Number one, cause she's so good at being sneaky. And, you know, I,

I'm, I never knew how sneaky she was. And so just seeing that and realizing that now. Can I tell you something? You maybe didn't know how sneaky she was, but I promise the 16-year-old Kelly absorbed it. You knew it. And my guess is if you go back to 12-year-old Kelly and 11-year-old Kelly, were things just rosy and wonderful at the house? Mm-hmm.

And they were perfect. I thought I had the perfect family growing up. There you go. Okay. And so you absorbed that. And yeah, man, that's tough to unwind. And so when you were 19 and this came out, did it just blow your mind? Oh, yeah, definitely. How'd you find out? So the guy that she cheated with asked to meet my dad at a McDonald's in the area. Oh, dude, that's a brave guy well no sorry it was his wife um that told my dad and so I knew he was going and when he came back

you know obviously something was wrong I had no idea it was so the dude in the neighborhoods I feel like I'm like we're middle schoolers now so the dude in. So the dude in the neighborhoods, I feel like I'm like, we're middle schoolers now. So the dude in the neighborhood, the dude in the neighborhood called your dad. No, the dude in the neighborhood's wife calls your dad to meet at a diabetes factory and they met there and that's where they told him. Yeah. From my, from my recollection, that's how my dad. Dude, that is so 10 years ago. Cause right now he would just text.

That's it. So good for them, I guess. And I think my dad probably suspected. Sure, sure. He just didn't have the proof. And this other guy's wife brought the proof. Okay. So fast forward to now.

I can get distracted pretty easily with that story. Because that just sounds like there's layer after layer after layer to that one. Here's the deal. You hear me say this all the time. You're going to have to grieve that story. And you had a perfect family and they weren't perfect. There is no perfect family. And your dad made some decisions. Your mom made some decisions. The neighbor, the dude in the neighborhood, his wife at the McDonald's, everybody made decisions here. And are you married now?

Yes. Okay. You're going to have to have some honest conversations with your husband. You're going to have to have some honest conversations with your brothers and sisters. And again, going back to my original thing, I would put in writing to my mom and dad, here's, we all know, we are all, we love you. We are not getting in the middle of this mess. And if y'all don't act like adults and deal with this mess in a way that is whole for everybody, then y'all are opting out of Thanksgiving because we're all getting together.

And y'all are opting out of Christmas get-togethers because we're all getting together. And we're going to mourn the loss of the family that we thought we had, but we're not going to mourn the loss of the family that we thought we had. But we're not going to get sucked into this thing. And so, dad, you're not calling little sister to gossip about mom. And mom, you're not calling middle brother to talk about if your dad had only. We're not doing that. We're not playing that game.

And the reason I tell you to write a letter is that way they can go back to it over and over and over again. And when people are having hard conversations with one another, especially family members, old roles pop up, old stories pop up, old defense mechanisms pop up, and we start hearing only what we want to hear. And there's something about having a letter that you can go back to and go back to and go back to, okay? And it will probably be a heavy thing for them to read, and they'll read it two, three, four times. And they may text you and say, who the crap do you think you are? And you can tell them I'm your oldest daughter and I love you guys. And you can just sit with that.

But I'll tell you, you are gonna have to, Kelly, go through your own grieving process here. And you may have. Everybody grieves differently. Your brother may break down on all, like just be comatose weeping. And you may say that really sucks. I'm pissed at my mom, pissed at my dad. You morons, you blew up something great. And I hope

you're all happy. And I'm moving on about my life because my marriage is good too. That may be awesome, may be good. Or you may find sneaky tendencies in yourself. And you may find that you slowly start to fill X or Y or Z, or you may find yourself starting to respond to problems between you and your husband or challenges that we all have, kind of like your dad, maybe a little loud, a little aggressive, a little angry. And when you have those seasons, you've got to commit now to making sure that you don't repeat that cycle with your husband. And then be open to your brother and sister, man. Make sure that they've got a place to call, which can be you. And make sure you love them.

But that just sucks. I hate that for you. And again, I say this all the time. Parents out there, don't treat your kids like your therapist, man. That's not what they're for. Don't treat, it drives me crazy when people say, you know, my son, he's 14. We're best friends. I'm best friends with my dad. I was like, what's so weird, dude? Have friends your own age. If I was to go out in the neighborhood and be like, hey, this is my best friend. He's 14. I'd go to jail because that's,

I'd probably go to jail, but that's just weird, right? Have friends your own age. And if you've been cheating on your spouse, don't make the first call to your 21 year old daughter. Talk to a pastor, talk to a friend, talk to, I don't know, maybe your husband would be a good person to talk to. Talk to a counselor, but talk to people who are equipped with this. Don't dump that type of nonsense onto your children, man. That's so much. If you have six-year-old kids, don't talk about your marriage problems with your six-year-old kids. Why? Because they're six and dragons are still maybe kind of real and so is Santa and they don't need to know about dad or they don't need to. Don't do that to your children, okay? Get people who are grown-ups that you can be vulnerable with

and what I find often is that it's hard for grown-ups to be vulnerable. You owe it to your kids to not dump this crap onto them, okay? And that brings me to this. I get this question a lot because I say this probably too much. I say the phrase, not by your hand, but in your lap. I say that all the time. People are always like, what do you mean? James and Kelly are in there being like, yeah, you say that all the freaking time.

We're super annoyed by it. And then Zach's just thumbs up at me. It's awesome. Here's what I mean by not by your hand, but in your lap. I mean, we all go through life trying to do the best we can with the tools we got. And not every once in a while, but often a politician does something stupid. Somebody backs into your car. You eat a salad and the lettuce in that salad has E. coli on it. And now you've got rocket diarrhea, right?

You didn't do that on purpose. It happened. And we are so obsessed in this culture, so obsessed with blame and blame and blame and who's fault and who's this. And some things are direct. Sometimes the guy backed up and hit your car because he's a moron.

He's just an idiot and he wasn't paying attention. And sometimes it just rains really hard and your house floods, right? Or sometimes you just go get a salad and I promise you the company that wasn't trying to make you sick, hopefully they were following their rules and it just happened. So what I mean is not by your hand, but in your lap, meaning you didn't cause it, but it just is. And what are you going to do about it? And so much of the time in our culture, in our lives, in our personal lives, in our homes, somebody does something, whether intentional or unintentional, and it happens to us.

And then we just go, I just can't believe that happened. I can't believe they did that. And then we just sit there. And what I am constantly telling myself, constantly telling people I love, and you, is great. Solve the problem. Like my son, if he's pouring milk and he accidentally drops the milk jug and it just falls, the tendency is to sit there and watch it fall. Nobody's mad. Nobody's upset.

But we've got to solve that problem. And right now the milk is spilling everywhere. Let's just get that up, right? The house is flooding. Well, it could be because of this and those developers. Dude, the house is flooding. Let's solve that problem. And then we'll get to the other stuff later. Okay. So what I mean by this is if you're a 26 year old and you're about to go to Christmas, you have been through 2021, and it sucks. I mean, 2020, well, 2021 is not just launching out of the gates really great. But you can't wait for the holidays, and then your dad calls, and he's like, guess what I found? That's not by your hand but in your lap.

You didn't need to get that email or that phone call from your dad. You did, and now you've got to deal with it. And you've got to be the adult in this situation. And you can join in by gossiping. You can join in by talking crap about mom. You can join in by being dramatic. Or you can be the adult and you can draw the boundary line and say, that's between you and mom. We're super not cool with both of you right now. This is frustrating. This is annoying. I'm going to talk to my brother and sister because I'm not keeping secrets in this family. I refuse to do that. And we're going to be the grownups here. And we love you both, but y'all need to get your crap together. And we're going to talk about alternative Thanksgivings and Christmases until y'all two decide to be grownups. And that's what I mean by not by your hand, but in your lap. Stop with the

blame first, solve the problems first, and then we'll get back to the blame. Now there's some things we can't, I get it, but most of the time, solve the problem, solve it, and then we'll get back to the blame. Now, there's some things we can't, I get it, but most of the time, solve the problem. Solve it, and then we'll move on, okay? All right, let's go to Liz in San Luis Obispo, California. Liz, what's going on? Hello, Dr. D. How are you? Thank you.

I'm great. I have a quick quiz for you. Oh, sure. Oh, number one, you're about to say something nice. Thank you for calling. I was just going to quiz for you. Oh, sure. Oh, number one, you're about to say something nice. Thank you for calling. I was just going to say thank you. Well, I'm saying thank you to you. And quick quiz.

My favorite UFC fighter of all time is from San Luis Obispo. Who is it? If you get this, I'm going to send you an autographed copy of this book. Who is it? I have no idea. Say Chuck Liddell. Chuck Liddell. Oh, my gosh. You're a genius, Liz. Congratulations. Stand in the line after this call, I have no idea. Say Chuck Liddell. Chuck Liddell.

Oh, my gosh. You're a genius, Liz. Congratulations. Stand in the line after this call, and Kelly will get you a book sent out. You're a genius, and it's making my whole day to talk to you. Congratulations. This is awesome. Okay, so what's going on?

How can I help? Well, my question has to do with my relationship with my coworkers. I am an independent contractor and have found myself to be the middleman between the author, founder of the program and her daughter, who is the CEO. Oh Lord, on a stick, in a box. That's not good. You probably can tell where I'm going with this. I feel like this show is brought to you by days of our lives. This has been awesome. The whole show, but go ahead.

Or Dawson's Creek, which is the best. Go ahead. I, so I was hired by the CTO, by the CEO to help her move the company and the product forward, like with technology, social media,

et cetera, all the kinds of stuff that the author either doesn't understand, doesn't want, or wants to do it her own exact way. So throw in a very strained mother-daughter relationship, and it's a recipe for anxiety for me. Especially when I talk to the CEO, because she reminds me so much of my mom, who I also have a strained relationship with. That's just a side note. Well, I would actually flip that around. My guess is your anxiety comes from that fractured relationship that this one reflects, not vice versa. But that's a whole other show, so continue. So they both talk openly about conflicts and feelings that they have regarding the other person.

And the author gets pretty mad when I disagree with her about something and wants me to basically follow blindly her directions, even when they go against what the CEO has told me. So the reason I contacted you is to see if you could help me with setting better boundaries with both of them without being rude, first of all, and keeping my job because I like my job a lot. And just, I want to get out of the triangle. I don't know how to do it. That's such a great question. And just one more thing. The author still really wants to be involved in the

day-to-day. Of course. But she really needs to step back. Right. So it sounds like you have a good relationship with her daughter. Is that fair? So what would it look like for you to go out for coffee or I don't know what you're allowed to do in California, but to, I really don't have a Zoom call, to talk to her and just say, hey, starting off 2021, I'm caught in the middle of this wonky relationship with y'all two. I love, love this job. I love, love you. It's getting weird. Can you give me some guidance? If you just approached it head on direct like that in a humble, kind way, what would she say? It's getting weird.

I like that word check. And here's why. I don't want you to go – I don't want you – if you use words like this sucks or this is bad or this is wrong, all three may be true, but you're talking about her mom, right? And she can talk about her mom, but probably you can't, right? Correct. And also, she gets weird. She knows it's weird.

And if you call it out in a gentle, humble way, then that's different than an attack, right? And then somebody can hear a gentle, humble, like you're asking her for advice. You're not saying that her mom's an idiot, right? And yeah, I think you're right. I would get out of this triangulation. At some point, this comes down and you're the fall guy, just so you know, okay? A hundred percent chance this ends badly and you're the one that ends the worst for.

Because mom's not going to fire daughter, or she is, but it's going to be your fault, and you're going to get blamed for it, or vice versa. Daughter who's running the company is going to get rid of the original author, right? Because that's mom. And so you become the weak link of this triangle, and the whole thing implodes on you.

Yikes, I never thought of that. You have to be the natural fall guy, because, or fall gal here, because they may bicker about each other and not like each other, but that's still mom and that's still daughter. And you will never be that. Yeah. Right?

And so here's an ugly reality check. You may not want to not have this job. It may be awesome, and it may not be in the cards for you to have it much longer. And that's not cool or not fun, that may just be straight up reality i guess i could see that happening it's with by your silence it sounds like you know this is inevitable right well not really i mean it makes sense what you say and i i totally i trust your knowledge and this type of stuff for sure but we have had conversations the ceo and i about where we both want to see this company going and how to get there and but if mom is still driving if mom is the author originator she owns the patent she governor here, man, we can have all the dreams.

You know what I super want next year? $2 million. I want that so bad. And I want a pony that can fly because my daughter would think I ruled. And if I could have like a life-size Lego thing for my son would be like an X-Wing, one of those Star Wars machine things that goes, that'd be awesome too. My wife would like a husband with way more abs than I have. All that would be right like a x-wing one of those star wars machine things that goes that'd be awesome too my wife would like a husband with way more abs than i had all that would be awesome um but then there's that reality part right and so yeah dude those dreaming conversations with the ceo are so great and here's what we could do if mom would just get out of the way the problem is mom's not getting out of the way. Yeah, at least not at her own accord.

Right. And man, you want to see, you guys have had a lot of fires in your area this year. You want to see a big one? Watch the daughter CEO fire her mom, who is the original author of this thing. No, thanks. Right. Yeah. So I, again, I'm playing playing nuclear option here but i think this whole thing starts with an honest hey this thing just feels weird and it feels like it's getting weirder can you help me and um i love your mom i love you i love love this job and i love the mission of this company i love where we're headed but this is starting to get super weird for me and i don't know what to do next and let her coach you and some point, if it gets super gnarly with mom, then you're able to

say, I'm just simply doing like a me and CEO talked through this. And so we came up with a game plan here. And at that point you are redirecting to the CEO where that those kinds of challenges go anyway. Is that fair? Yeah, that's fair. So will you do me a humongous – I confess I'm having a hard time believing you. What's that? Because I don't want to. Oh, yeah, dude.

I don't want to be the fall guy. I want to not believe me that I'm going to have $2 million next year. I'm going to have to sell a lot of these $10 books to get $2 million next year. I've sold a lot of them, right? So all that to say, it's probably not going to happen for me. Maybe you're going to be the one. You're not. I'm just trying to be all nice and kind.

You're not. You will be the fall guy, 100%. And if you feel comfortable enough with the CEO in that conversation, tell her. I don't want to be the fall guy in this deal. I don't want this. When this is going to go south and I don't see a way where it's not, I'm stuck in the middle here. And I love you both. And I love this job.

And I don't want to be the person that ends up on fire here when this thing crashes. And hopefully that CEO is a leader, a woman of character. And she's going to see this and be like, oh oh my gosh, we have drawn you into our drama. And it's been a mess since I was a little kid. It's still a mess. This is not your fight. I'm so sorry. I'm going to do a better job of getting you out of the direct fire here.

And by the way, Liz, free advice you didn't even call for. That's what we do on this show. Free advice. Worth the price that you call for it. That's what we do on this show. Free advice. Worth the price that you pay for it. Maybe lean in and start figuring out ways you can heal the relationship with your mom. At least you're a part of it. She may not have any interest in wanting to reconnect or to heal a lifetime of a messed up relationship, but man, that'd give you some peace moving forward in your life to have that tether reconnected there with your mom. I'd love to see that happen.

But Liz, please, please, after you have that conversation with the CEO, call me back. If you have that conversation and you get fired, one, that'll suck. I'll be sorry about that. But two, I'll send you another book and you can read both of them at the same time. That's all I can really offer you. But hang on the line. Kelly's going to get you a book for guessing Chuck Liddell. Chuck Liddell, my favorite UFC fighter of all time. And as you wrap up the show, hey, listen, this happened the

other day. So my buddy, one of my oldest friend, best friends in the world, his name's Todd. He calls me on the phone and he's old man Gafal laughing, like from his guts laughing right when I answer it. And I knew it was going to be awesome. I was like, what's so funny? And he goes, I just listened to one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. And I was like, oh, what is this? That was a YouTube clip. He said, it was your AMA episode where you talked about meditating. And I was like, what do you mean that's stupid? You're stupid. And he is laughing. He's like, I've known you for almost 30 years. You don't meditate. You told all those people you meditate. And I was like, what do you talk? Yeah, I do every day. And I snapped a picture of,

I was down in my basement. I snapped a picture where it had my little bell and the pillow that I sit on all the stuff, my little Kumbaya journal, my gratitude to all that. And I sent it to him and he's laughing even harder. He's like, are you being serious? He thought I was just lying to everybody on the podcast. And I was like, yeah, I'm being serious, man. That's why I'm so much better at life than you are. And everything you touch is disaster. And everything that I'm a part of is good because I'm calm and cool because I meditate all the time. And so he's laughing and he's like, I can't wrap my head around my hyper obnoxious Deloney friend sitting down and being calm and still. So that leads me to this, good folks, Todd and everybody,

the song of the day. One of the greatest songs ever, and it's from the 70s. And by 70s, I mean 1570s. It's called Subtum Presidium, Antone Mode 7. It's a Gregorian chant. And it goes like this. That's the end of the show. I don't know what else to do.