The Dr. John Delony Show - Caller: “How Do I Stop Cheating on My Girlfriends?”

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

🔥 Microhabits for a better marriage. Download the Together app.   On today’s episode, we hear about: A man wondering how to stop cheating on his girlfriends A mom concerned about her son’s fascination with sex A woman struggling to decide if she should leave her dream job   Next Steps: 📋 Get on the same page before the week begins. Download Dr. John Delony’s free weekly marriage check-in.  💬 Get the Free Conflict Game Plan by Dr. John Delony ❤️Join Dr. John Delony at Money & Marriage Getaway 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John’s Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch   Episode Chapters 00:00:00 Intro 00:01:00 I’m Addicted to Cheating 00:20:10 I Discovered My Son’s Secret Messages 00:42:18 Is Blowing Up My Career the Right Choice?   Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Go to Capstone Wellness to learn more. Get up to 20% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Working knives for working people—go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Visit Zander Insurance or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today.   Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights  🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I first cheated on a partner back in high school. I cheated on her early in the relationship. And I guess from that point forward, I'm not really sure why I felt such a strong inclination towards cheating on her. But I felt like I could do it and get away with it. So I just continued to do it. Do you want to stop?

What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney's show. Man, I'm glad that you were with us. Talking about your marriages, your mental and emotional health, your kids, whatever you got going on in your life. pull up a seat and we're going to figure out what's the next right step for you to take and reclaiming ownership of your life who you want to be and where you want to be wherever it is you're going click the link in the show notes if you want to be on the show if you want to sit down and have a phone call with me love to have you on and it's an honor that you're here it's got to baton rouge bouloges louisiana and talk to jacob what's up jacob hey how's it going i'm good man how are you i'm good it's an honor to speak I'm very nervous. Well, I echo your nervousness because I get nervous too because I'm still trying to figure out how to do this thing.

But I am glad that you called, man. I appreciate your trust. Of course. Thank you. What's up? So I wanted to know how I can stop cheating on my partners and become a more loyal partner and just overall, you know, a better person as a result of that. What has led you in your life to believe you are powerless to cheat on somebody? That's a good question. I would say that I first cheated on a partner back in high school, my junior year of high school. I cheated on her early in the relationship. And I guess from that point forward, I just continued to do so. I'm not really sure why I felt such a strong inclination towards cheating on her. But I felt like I could do it and get away with it. So I just continued to do it.

How old are you now? I'm now 23. And you're still cheating on romantic partners? Yes. Do you want to stop? Yes. Why? It's just not the kind of person I want to be.

One day I want to be married with a family and be a good husband. And also, I live with a lot of guilt for the people that I've hurt by cheating. And a lot of regret for it. So if you were to, like cheating is a big, heavy thing. right and it's a violation of your values like you said it hurts people it hurts you it's just it's it's a but if we back out of it this might sound like a strange question but what problem does cheating solve in your life it it is working for you in some way and it's easy to look back on a thing that we're doing that leaves such a trail of devastation in its wake right but coming

at the other angle what does it do for you because it's doing something for you because you wouldn't keep doing it if it wasn't solving a problem for you. I have a couple of theories, not things I consciously think about when I'm cheating, but just looking back in retrospect and trying to evaluate why I may have acted certain ways. I think that it could be to try to give me validation. You already have that. You already have that if you're dating somebody. Right. But the thing is that when I'm cheating with someone, it's, almost like I'm a lot more interested in the idea that someone, and not just someone obviously, because I do already have a partner,

but that multiple people want to, you know, engage in physical activities with me. And knowing that gives me some sort of validation, that, you know, just one partner wanting me, I guess, isn't enough, knowing that a lot of people want me feels more satisfying. What about the other side of the, what I would call the anti-validation, when then this person, you leave this rendezvous or this hookup and you look yourself in the mirror and you know like that was despicable.

And now I have to decide whether I'm going to be a liar too and not tell my partner what's going on or I'm going to tell them and destroy them. Yeah, I think that over the course of my life I've gotten pretty good at kind of pushing down feelings of regret and things like that. And I've gotten pretty good at just focusing on the moment, but using that in a bad way. So I don't really have to look into the future at, you know, how this is going to hurt the other person or look back at what a bad person I'm being.

Sure. I can just kind of clear it off my mind and just focus on, okay, what's next to that? But it sounds like you have moments of profound regret, or like, let's just put this on a table. you don't necessarily want a monogamous relationship.

You like the feelings, you like the pursuit, you like the multiple partners at the same time, but you want to want that fantasy of being this ironclad guy that somebody else could anchor into. But you don't really want that. I think that I do. And maybe you're right, but it seems like it's almost kind of an impossible question to answer

and be certain that my answer is correct. Well, here's the thing. Like, stop cheating. Right. You know what I mean? I guess it's not, there's zero rocket science here. If you're dating somebody, delete every other person in your phone. Get rid of social media.

And when you feel the feelings of wanting to scroll and pursue or hit a DM, catch yourself in that moment and say out loud, I'm not this guy. Right. It's not hard. The reason I'm asking these questions is, like, getting underneath. is do you even do you even want to stop i i do you even want to stop i do you're i do you're putting the car before the horse we can do that we can dig into that my guess is most of the time not always but most of the time there's a, either a pattern of how you received affection, how you were able

to prove that you were loved. It could have been you only got a hug when you got straight A's, or you got hit in the mouth when you got a beat, right? You learned, I need somebody else that, or you said, hey, this hurt my feelings. And your mom or dad or both said, no, it didn't. That wasn't even that big a deal. And you learned, oh, I can't trust me. I've got to seek outside voices to tell me how I feel I'm okay, I'm worth being loved. Maybe. Maybe not. But right now, you've got the cart before the horse. And that is, you've told yourself this story. And unfortunately, brother, like, I have to own it on behalf of the global mental health community. We've told everybody being well, being whole, being a person of character is getting all the right

thoughts in the right order first. And that's false. The path to character, the path to virtue is action. So the path for you is not, I need to figure out what? The path for you, brother, is I will never cheat again, ever. And then when those impulses come up, which they will, I'm going to begin to address this new person that I am in that way, in a curious, compassionate way, not feeling like I am some sort of slave to this internal master.

You what I'm saying? Yeah, that makes sense. I promise you, if you were to tell me today, like, oh, this happened, this happened, this happened, and in 15 minutes you and I solve the origin story of you needing external validation, that would do nothing to your impulse to want to cheat.

In fact, it would probably do the opposite, because now you've got a reason why, which can be twisted to make it okay. I can't help it. This happened to me. And so therefore, I get a pass on all my future hurting other people, all my future violations of my own core values. I get a pass because this thing happened to me once or a whole bunch of times has happened to me. You get what I'm saying?

Yeah, that makes sense. And in my, not my most recent relationship where I cheated a lot, but in the previous relationship, I didn't cheat on my partner at all until the very, very end of the relationship. I met a coworker who I really liked. And I never actually cheated in any physical way. I just enjoyed the company of this coworker. And then broke up with that girlfriend to pursue something with the coworker. And I guess I, and in that relationship, I had just completely stopped using social media or deleted any girls

who I thought would provide any sort of temptation off of my social media. And that worked until I had, you know, a real in-person temptation. and I know that, you know, when I'm married, I'll have, you know, attractive co-workers or attractor friends or whatever. And I don't want that temptation to ever become too strong to where I can use as a way to avoid fixing real problems in my actual relationship. Yeah, brother, your math is sideways, man. Like the algorithm you've cranked out in your head on how relationships work and how the future

might impact your future decisions, bro, is sideways. like the the nonchalance with which you talk about how you've hurt these other people is troubling to me and maybe it's because we're talking you're nervous

and you're just like trying to keep a steady heartbeat but there's a sociopathic way you're like there's a there's a tenor in your voice that is very flatlined you know what I'm saying

yeah I will say that I've always been I've always kind of tried to be a monotone person and never sound too emotional when I'm talking. Okay. So I think that's just a habit that I've kind of built up over time. If you are destroying the lives of other people and you are, you look in the mirror

and you're disgusted by the man you are and how you treat others, there should be an emotional response. If you don't feel that, and this is just a math problem for you, I used to want to be an engineer, but now I want to be a computer programmer that I'm going to plead with you

to stay out of romantic relationships for a while, especially ones that a person thinks you're their person and you're their only person. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and so what do you think I should do in the meantime to try to... I think you need a full 100% detox from romantic relationships.

Okay. I think you have to practice being in the presence of somebody who makes you feel good, which is humanity, being around someone who's pretty or beautiful or that you're attracted to and not instantly thinking, I need to conquer her so that I can feel good about myself. You've got to practice being bored at 10 o'clock at night and not scrolling. You've got to practice telling the truth and keeping your word to you first. right right but i mean like i i and you know like you called because i'm pretty honest with folks right and i i'm being honest from a loving place man i'm not sitting here in judgment of you i'm just kind of casting the vision in front of you of what you're telling me um like this is human one oh one stuff right and so you're talking about in many ways creating a moral compass from scratch. And I'm going to tell you right now, you can't do that by yourself. You're going to have to go sit with a professional and say, hey, let's walk through this. I started seeing a therapist last week. Okay, but here's the thing. You're a master manipulator, and this isn't a judgment accusation. This is a fact. You know this, I know this.

You have to commit to telling the truth about how you don't feel, about how you use people, and how you engage with them. Got it? Got it. Okay. Otherwise, you're wasting their time. you're wasting your money, there's no reason to go. Other than to give you an excuse of another failed attempt at trying to be different, which validates that this is who I am, okay? But you're going to need some intense walking with. I did too, okay? So it's not a judgment statement.

It's just me loving you well, okay? The second part of it is you have to put on your mirror in your apartment, on your car, on your phone, I'm a man of integrity. If you want to be more specific and you don't have a lot of visitors at your house because this would be weird. Like, I'm a man who will never cheat. I'm a man who never lies. I'm a man who's worth being loved for me. I can do that.

And then you have to reverse engineer a life that lives into that. Okay. And I'm talking about when the door-to-door bugs, Zapper salesman comes over and is like, hey, we want to spray your yard. And instead of saying, I already have a guy or, man, I just can't right now. You have to look him in the eye and say, I wouldn't, I don't want your services right now. Thank you though. I appreciate you coming by and close the door.

You tell the truth, always. Hey man, you want to come over tonight? I can't. No, I can. Not tonight. I'm gonna stay in tonight. I want to stay in tonight. I'm gonna start owning truth.

And what you'll do hopefully is begin to teach your body. It thinks it needs external validation like oxygen to survive. And what you will teach it is, only through lived experience, I'm driving the car that is my life and I get to choose who I am. And we, me and body here, we're going to be okay. We can feel other people's disappointment in us and get up and go again the next day and go get them. Right?

I have this weird sense of my guts. You're not going to do this. No, I really, really, I really do want to. And I'm going to be seeing a therapist every week. And like you said earlier, I know it doesn't sound like in my voice. but I'm very much racked with guilt over the way that I've acted. And in a way, I feel kind of guilty

that I can't, that I know that my guilt is not as painful as the pain that I put other people through. And that may be a protective measure. Because you're seeing a mental health professional, bring this up to them, don't do this on your own. But if you were seeing me, if I was sitting with you, just,

you and I were having nachos, I would suggest write each one of the women you cheated on a letter and put yourself in that position when you saw their face when you told them and write the letter of apology

don't send it but begin to acknowledge what you put other people through write yourself a letter after every one of those interactions this is the man I know it feels like we're falling apart

I know it feels like we're never going to get over this We're never going to be able to treat somebody with dignity and honor. But I'm making the changes at 23. Future you is going to put an end to this. You know what I'm saying? Yep. Make a choice today.

I'm done cheating. I'm going to be a person of integrity. Even if that means I have nobody. Even if that means I feel lonely, even if that means this big feeling in my chest is screaming at me, told you you're not lovable. I know. But I don't do that.

I don't do that. Game on, man. Day one. We come back. A woman asks how to help her 14-year-old son navigate his fixation with sex and girls. We'll be right back. All right, we've got less than 90 days until the full weight of the holiday season is upon us. And you know how it goes.

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Let's go out to Burlington Coat Factory, Vermont, and talk to Melissa. Hey, Melissa, what's up? Hey, it's such an honor to be able to speak with you today. That's an honor to talk to you. Thanks for calling. What's going on? Yeah, so I'm calling today because I would love your advice on how I can best support my 14-year-old son who he seems to be having this growing obsession with sex and girls.

And yeah, I just need some guidance as a mother. Okay, if you're watching this, you have to notice that you'll notice that my face just smiled. It did it automatically. I didn't even mean to, okay, Melissa. My impulse is to say, yeah, because he's a 14-year-old boy. But you wouldn't be calling if this was normal. So, tell me, paint me a picture of what's going on.

Yeah, so, and I'm not to say. Let me stop. I want to retract. I should not have used the word normal here, okay? That was a bad word on my part. I don't want to already cast a vision that your son somehow abnormal. Okay, that was false, fake. That was wrong on my part.

I apologize. All right. But you wouldn't be calling if there wasn't something that was concerning you beyond the 14-year-old boy going through puberty and suddenly he's like, ooh, right? Yeah, so paint me that picture. So you can tell me. me if this is normal or not. And you can tell me if this is a me problem. Right. So over the last six months, there's just been a series of events that have just, you know, my red flag is going up in my brain. It started when I discovered that he had been looking up porn on my computer. I had,

generally in the house, we don't allow the kids access to the internet, but I'd let him use my computer for homework. Once I discovered it, we put the gabash on that. And I'm like, you know, that's my bad for allowing him to, you know, get access to that. And then during this summer, this is the more worrisome pattern that I'm seeing is that he is kind of hopping from girlfriend to girlfriend and breaking up with them after they aren't doing things with him physically. that he wants them to be doing. Yeah, and that, you know, like the first girlfriend, he started getting attention from another girl that he met,

and this new girl was sending him some provocative texts, was definitely a little bit more kind of confident and sexual in general, being, you know, she's 13. But he then broke up with his girlfriend. and his girlfriend said, well, was it because I wouldn't make out with you? And he knew better. And he said, no, no, it's not because of that. But from what I could tell, as soon as this new girl came on the scene and kind of offered him more physical experiences, potentially, he was all about that.

And then with this new girl, after a couple of weeks, she retracted some of that. And she said, and good for her. she's like, Agno, I talked about doing all this stuff with you, but I'm actually not comfortable with it. He broke up with her less than a week later and then immediately moved on to another girl. And so maybe this is normal. Maybe he's just figuring this out. But with all of the kind of cultural garbage out there, it makes me concerns that he's objectifying these young girls. And he isn't, I don't know, that he's starting down a path.

and I would just love to make sure that he's not going to continue down that path, if that makes sense. So I'm in a quandary here, okay? Okay. And I'm going to be honest as I can. I'm trying to do a better job on this show of telling what's going on in my head instead of just saying things because it can sound abrupt, okay? What's going on in my head is, is I have a concerned mom on the phone with me. And that, to me, is one of the most sacred interactions I can have. a mom or a dad saying

I'm worried about my kid. And on the other side, I have a mom and I'm assuming, is dad around? Where's dad and all this? Yeah, we are separated, but we co-parent. I'm like, you probably don't hear this a lot.

We are amazing co-parents. Okay. Yeah. What's dad's response been to this? He is not aware of it. He does not have the insight into the son's text messages like I do. Okay, so I'm going to, I'm going to start challenging you hard. Is that cool?

We're still friends. Promise? Yes, please, please. Okay. Number one story you've made up. We're amazing co-parents. You are not because you're not sharing this really powerful, important thing that your son desperately needs a grown man to sit down with him.

Okay. So the fantasy you've created is we're amazing co-parents, but you've got this huge secret about his son that you're keeping from him. Okay. I do have a little bit of context to add there. But if you want to continue. Go for it. Go for it.

Because here's the other side of it. Dad may cheer him on. I know those men who are like, oh, hell, yeah, my 14-year-old boy. Right? That may be the case. And if that's the case, then you all have, like this, where amazing co-parents is, it takes on a different tenor. Amazing co-parents, when they're young, is,

are you going to pick them up? Or do we always keep our agreements? Are we, our drop-offs pleasant? As you get older, we start getting into really rich value territory. Do we share the same values? Because we're trying to raise the same kind of human. Totally. And I think that we are good about a lot of that. And my ex-husband really struggles with difficult conversations with anybody in his life. And that is a big reason why we aren't married

anymore. So sex especially is a hot button topic. If I were to share this with him, he would stick his head in the sand and not say anything to his son about it. So I haven't. Absolutely. I'm heartbroken for your son. over that. But he has a wonderful stepfather who I have spoken to about this. Okay. Does he, does he trust that man?

Yes. Can they go out to breakfast and not have the sex talk? Because that, your 14 year old will be in wide-eyed fight or flight or head down just, I got to weather this storm and then get on about his life. And, because making out is awesome, right? like in all whether this this this lecture here it comes or can will he commit to uh we're going to go to breakfast every day till you grad i mean every week till you graduate that's a new rhythm in our house that is something that i have want so so much um and and um that that relationship is not

there yes i think i think it can be um i think i need to have a more direct conversation with my husband about. Potentially. Can you step in that gap in that season? Absolutely. Will he listen to his mother? At 14, though, does he want to talk to this stuff about me? You know, talk about this stuff with me. So that's going to be the second part here. And you use the phrase, I'm worried about the path he's on.

Yeah. And given the context of the world he lives in, you put him in a car, handed him the keys, taught him how to drive and now you're worried that he's driving. What do I mean by that? A 14 year old shouldn't be outdating. 14 year old shouldn't have a phone that he's texting other 14 year old girls with in any sort of capacity where any sort of pictures are being exchanged. A 14 year old...

Go ahead. Sorry. The phone is completely locked down and it has this whole operating system on it. It is not just a very. regular cell phone. I just, I just want to throw that out there. That's great, except when this other provocative 13-year-old who's over her skis is sending pictures, that's deleted and blocked, kid, sorry. No, she has not sent pictures. It was all verbal. But you get what I'm saying. You get what I'm saying. I do. I do. And none of this is comfortable. Yes, it's developmentally appropriate for a 14-year-old boy

to want to see naked people, 100%. Totally. There's totally developmentally appropriate for a 14-year-boy to be curious about how sex work. Oh my gosh, she doesn't have any clothes on. That's amazing or he doesn't have any clothes on. That's amazing.

Like, yes, all of that is developmentally appropriate. It makes sense in, by the way, that will still be interesting when he's 90, right? So at 14, what he desperately needs is parents who will throw up hurdle after hurdle have to hurdle to protect him from himself. Yeah. Right?

And that means risking from the age of 14 to 18. I love you enough for you to not like me. Yeah. And if you're going to go on a date, here's what this looks like. And beyond just the mechanics of dating and phone usage, we just talk about sex in the house. Yeah.

It's a, it's not a, it's an awesome, awesome thing. And it is, more awesome in the right context, in the right, in the right place and time. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, totally. Totally. Just like an incredible glass of wine.

Just like a fist fight is awesome if you're in MMA training and you've got a good training partner. It's not a good idea in a bar in the middle of the night, right? Like so like teaching time and place and context. And yes, like you're not going to want to come in here, right? Like letting him know this is a normal awesome. thing and this isn't how we treat young women. Yeah. I think it's that last part that I'm not sure how to, other than living my life to, you know,

reflect that value. Like, I'm not sure how to talk to him about that or if he would listen to me as his very uncool mother. Yes. Yes. He will watch you way more than he listens to you. Okay. And what I mean by that is he'll see the affection you have for your husband, for his stepdad.

He'll see the things. Kids are incredibly absorbent on what are no-fly zones in this house and what are. And if they know something is off limits, we can't talk, we can't ask questions. Like you said, dad will bury his head, he'll turn beat red. they will learn quickly. This is something we don't talk about. But what that also, especially now, for me growing up,

that meant you have to go find somebody's dad who has a brother who's got a playboy somewhere. That world's over. It's everywhere. And so if I am not, if I haven't created a world where any question can be asked, where there's, we laugh, we have fun,

we show respect, Like, there is no such thing as an off-limits conversation. If I don't have that, they'll get a really quick handle on what is like an off-limits conversation, and they're going to go find it somewhere else. And I'll be damned if my kids are going to find it first. They'll find it because that's life. If they're going to find it first from somebody else. You got what I'm saying? I do.

And conceptually, that is something I've always wanted. to give him is a household where he can come to me with any question, big or small, any problem, big or small, like nothing's off limits. And I find him being very, very private. And so I wonder if my execution of my intentions has just not been as effective as maybe they could have been. So I'm going to throw a few things out, okay? Okay. And make a mental checklist of these. You don't have to even answer me, okay? how often since he was

8, 9 or 10 till 14 have you if he's in bed and you're laying by him in bed and you're just chit-chat and it's got he's got a lamp on or it's dark have you said what is sex like for middle schoolers or are boys and girls already like are people already making out what is making it what is like what does the word making out mean to you because it used to mean

French kissing and now it means like oral sex like what is What does making out mean? And like you begin, you want to create a world where he understands he can ask questions, then you model it by, I'm going to ask you questions. I'm going to trust that you are the self-proclaimed expert of your world. And I'd love to be invited into it. No, mom, no, no. Well, man, that's crazy because when I was a kid, shush, right?

And then he starts to get a picture, a 360-degree picture of not this boring mom, but this grown woman who also was in middle school who may have also felt pressured to be somebody she wasn't in order to win the affection of a teenage boy. And you begin to open those doors for him and he begins to see there's human beings behind this pursuit. There's something powerful, regardless of how you approach the world

that you sit down with your 14-year-old and say, your life's been real hard. And dads are supposed to, talk about sex. Dad's are supposed to talk about girls. Dads are supposed to talk about dating and relationships with their sons. And you only get to see your dad a couple times a week or a couple times a month or however you all have got it arranged. And so letting him know I should have been having

these conversations with you and I haven't. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. But and they don't launch into a big. So the man has testicle. Don't do don't do the film strip that we all had to watch, right? No, no. But there is a, and you can tell them, world's about to change for you, brother. And like, just know, and by the way, we're having breakfast every Tuesday until you graduate. And I will make that a priority. And what you will send, the message you will send to him is way bigger than we all are going to talk about.

It will be, mom always moved things around and did a thing for me. That's an anchor point that I can say, hey, mom, guess what? I like a girl. Yeah, I think that that will be, I heard you give that, that suggestion so many times and I have always found, you know,

I have three children and I work full time and I've always like, it's impossible, it's impossible. But I'm going to, like, but it needs to happen and I would move mountains

for my children. So, you know. Yeah. It, it, it, or a walk after dinner after the other two are asleep, he's 14, is he the oldest? Yeah.

Yeah. You have to put your phone away and go for a walk with your mom. We do this every night. Yeah. And by the way, he'll roll his eyes. He'll get mad. Mom, I have homework. I'm in the middle of a game.

It doesn't matter. We do this. And he will tell that story at your funeral. I went on a walk every night with my mom for four years. Every Tuesday we went to this crappy diner. And we both had a race to see who got diarrhea first. But we did it every time for five years, right? Yeah.

That's the anchor point. kind of mom I want to be. Yeah, yeah, I want to do that for him. And you called this out, this is so important, this can't happen in a vacuum. This is you and your new husband getting in a room and saying, okay, the way we've done things changes now. And you look at him and say, you got breakfast Tuesdays and Wednesdays, because that's when I take the kids out one-on-one. Yeah. And you've, it's going to have to be a team effort. Absolutely. And you've got laundry now on this day and this day. I don't know how you know, things divided up. I'm just making stuff up. But, You know what I mean? Like this is the new ecosystem because this thing is now, we, we don't fit morning breakfast into our existing life. Our existing life now works around one on one time with these kids that are growing up so fast we can't see straight.

That's the new, that becomes a new priority. So how do we loop this thing? How do we create a world where this is priority? And hopefully you married a new guy that's like game on. And hopefully he's a man who says, I want to be a part of this. and that's going to be a slow, slow integration of your, and your 14-year-old may never get there with him.

Like, I'm not talking to this strange. Like, that may never happen. Or he may feel such an allegiance to his birth. There's always this weird. If I give stepdad this information or have this kind of relationship, somehow it's disloyal to my birth father, even though birth father's not there for this conversation.

So all I'd say is it's messy. It's messy. Yes, it is developmentally appropriate for 14-year-old boys to want to see naked girls. It is developmentally appropriate for boys to be curious about what body parts feel like, what they look like, what making out feels like, yes, all that's appropriate. For them to want that, it is not wise for the unfettered access. That's why they have parents to protect them from those impulses and to help over time contextualize those impulses to the right relationships, the right circumstances, the right environment. So thanks for the call.

You're a good mom, Melissa, you're a good, good mom. And now it's time to go 15 layers deeper and love this boy well. Game on. I'd love to hear all these conversations go if you want to holler back. I'd be really fascinating to hear how they're going. I wish you guys the best. We come back. A woman asks if she should change careers before it's too late.

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I'm excited. I'm glad you called. That's really cool. What's up? So I have spent four years in undergrad a year on a certificate and now several years in graduate school to become qualified for a particular job in a particular field. And now that I have that job in that field, I'm not sure that it's what I want to do at all. My question is, is this the best? I know, I know. Is it the best time to make a change

because I'm so early in the game or is it the worst time to make a change because I'm so early in the game? If it is something that is your finding is a violation of your values. meaning like I can't be a part of, I didn't realize this industry involved this or involved that.

Or this is asking me to work like in this capacity. And I don't, it's just not aligned with who I want to be in the world. And I'm trying to think of, let's say you go get a finance degree and then you get a master's of accountancy and then you go work at a bank and you're a lender. And you have this deep-seated, like, belief that borrowing money isn't good for people. Like, stop doing that job. Give yourself, not immediately, you got to pay your bills, but give yourself an exit ramp, right? Because that's not long-term.

That's not going to work out. My concern for you is a challenge I ran in with almost every graduate student I worked with who went straight through is it's less about the job. And it's this recognition. This is the rest of your life. You've been a student since you were four. And so if that's the case, I would tell you, get as good as you possibly can at the thing you're doing, even if you, quote, unquote, aren't passionate about it or whatever, and also look for adjacent skills that will make you the person you want to be on the job market.

You what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. Let's say hypothetically, it's a combination of both. And how comfortable are you speaking not in hypotheticals? you worried someone's going to find out? Well, let's say hypothetically, it's government-related, and it might be a temporary violation of values, but not indefinitely. And there's no way to tell how long or in what ways at this stage. I don't do temporary violations in my values. Good point. Because that's a permanent mark on my character. That's who I am. Or at a meta level,

I'm a guy who will bend my own values for a minute. And I don't want to be that guy. You know what I'm saying? I do. I do. And can we be honest, unless it's a particular government job, government jobs will come and government jobs will go, right? Yeah, I'm finding that's true also, yes.

And so is there a possibility that you take the skillsets you have and you go work at a place that's aligned with who you want to be in the world? and then one day if a position opens up, which it for sure will, you make your way back? That is a possibility. I'm hoping it's a probability. I think that I'm a little bit in the headspace of I've spent so much time on this. There are a lot of friends and family members and people in my circle who are invested. They don't get a vote, sister. You got to look at you in the mirror. You know what I'm saying? Well, and if they've always gotten a vote, then it's time for them not to get a vote. Do not stay in a job because your mom likes telling her friends at church.

That's where you work. You got it? Okay. Yeah. Do not stay in a job because your dad, you see him lean back and do that big smile he has when he's talking to his boys. And he's like, my daughter's fill in the blank. Yeah. They don't, that, like, my God, like you're, you're, you're melting yourself from the inside out.

It violates who you want to be in the world just to make... I'm not doing that. I'm also... I'll say I'm also... Unless they are saying, I want you to do this thing. And that thing is illegal. That thing is immoral. I am not a fan of big, like, audacious, I quit.

Have it... Let the boat get close to the dock before you jump off the dock. Your next boat that's going to take. you where you want to go. Get another job first. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I see what you're saying. And I agree. I think that there's the question that I have come up against from the people that I have spoken to about it. And there are very few of them. But it's a why was this like in all of these years you didn't have any sort of clue into that this wouldn't be what you actually wanted? That's a stupid question. stupid question, not even worthy of an answer.

Yes. A smart question is, did you not ever have coffee with somebody who actually did this job to find out what the job was about? Because that was dumb. And that's a failure on the education system for not putting you in, like not in recruiting meetings

where they're trying to convince you how great everything is, but where you go have coffee with, like one of the greatest things my dad ever did for me was when I told him I wanted to be an FBI agent. he took me to to the head of basically the chief psychologist for a giant metropolitan police department and I got an hour with that guy at 20 and that guy said hey here's what grad school

will look like here's the path here's the thing here's the challenges you're going to rope against but I walked away saying that's not going to be the job for me but otherwise I would have gone full force I would have probably gone to law school I would have done everything I to get that job and I would have got there had I not sat down and had a cup of coffee with somebody who was generous enough to give me an hour of their time. And by the way, everyone on the planet, no one loves a question like, can I ask you about you? Everyone's like, oh yeah, I love talking about me, right? So yes, if you didn't have that, that was dumb. And I won't blame you 19 year old or 20 year old. I'll blame the people around you for not coaching you well.

But it's a dumb question to look back and go, how did you not know? Because you, you're you don't know until you're there, right? Yeah, yeah. It's just a silly question. Because I had multiple of those. There were, there were those all along the way. And I think those people, which is part of the part of what prompted my call is that those people who put in recommendations for me and kind of stuck their necks out for me and helped elevate me into this position, walking away from it feels disrespectful to them and to the people that were in the program with me and who I knew would kill to have the same opportunity. And there's a lot of, it's charged for some reason.

I don't really know how to, I wouldn't know how to face them. I wouldn't know how to, how to answer to them. I'm still trying to work it all out. I want you to answer to you first. And I've written a number of recommendation letters for some of the broad, rightest, folks that I readily expect I'll be working for someday that were students of mine. And if they came to me with resolve and said, I was on this path and I ran into this blocker, I ran into this ethical dilemma, I ran into this value violation, I took this path.

I would say as an educator, as somebody who's a mentor, I did my job, which is know your true north over and above any stupid job, right? Right. And so I would cheer them on. Even if I made a phone, I made phone calls for you. Yep. And I got in there buying the curtain and that was not for me. Exactly.

Yes. And I'm a grown up. If colleagues call me like nice recommendation, Deloney, they already left. I got, that's the one on the chin for me. And that's also why, like, honestly, I told more students no. I can't like you recommend. I don't know you that well. I didn't work with you in that capacity.

You weren't one of my student leaders that I worked in with day in and day out and we built a thing together. Like, I don't know you that well. You weren't one of my graduate students. And so I would say no a lot for that very reason. I want to be selective. So let me ask you this.

I'm still torn and coach me on this. Is it just, like, growing up sucks? Like, there's this like, oh, I do this every day and then die. Right. Is there that part? of it because that's a real I mean I wish there was like it's easy to be like

you need to grow up no there's a real death to childhood yeah your childhood was prolonged because you went to grad school right after undergrad right after high school so you drug it out as long as you could I certainly did but there's a death to it and now I got to be somewhere every day at a clock or seven o'clock or five o'clock whatever

and I got to wear this outfit I got especially if you're working for the government I got to do I got to speak how they speak I got go to these trainings, get these, all that stuff. I can't tell if it's that, or if it is you're there and politics is an absolute dumpster fire right now. And in that case, that rolls over every two years. I'm not going to do something against the law or whatever, a future administration is going to, like, hold me accountable for in court

because I violated the law of the Constitution. But, dude, I've worked for lots of places. I didn't agree with the boss, but I agreed with who we were trying to help. Right. Yes, yes to all of the above. I think that there's certainly, there's truth to the fact, like, I, of course, like, this is the first time that I'm following this type of schedule and in this environment. And there's, like, you know, it's different in practice than it always has been in theory. There is that.

But I feel, I feel like it's more the latter, which is I didn't exactly know. know what my work and what my contributions would be in service. I always just knew conceptually speaking. And now that I'm there and working every day hard, I am questioning what that work ethic and what my energy. Like it is the thing that it is the end that it is serving really worthwhile or is it what I'm really aligned with. And you're right. It changes. It changes every two, every four, every six years. But it's a very different, it's a different game. It's a different mentality than it was when I started all of this.

And I'm uncertain. There's a lot of uncertainty. Yeah, totally. And that's the word I'm hearing most common from my folks, my buddies in the services and federal organizations and state organizations. That word uncertainty, which I hate because a leader's job is to provide a foundation, not chaos, right? I get that.

On the other side, can I challenge you hard? Yes. I hope you would. Two big challenges. Challenge number one, and this is going to sound disrespectful and unenlightened and blah, blah, blah. How old are you? 25. Okay.

I haven't road tested this because I'm saying this for the first time in my life ever right now, okay? So if I say it and then the YouTube commenters come back, they might be right, okay? Or Kelly might tell me off the air. if you're 25, you're not at the contribution stage yet. That's fair. You're at the grinding, learning, doing over and over and over, learning the ropes. And it's not to say that you won't provide contribution. That's not fair.

But like, and it's not to say you're not providing, I'm trying to think, like, if I hired a 25-year-old producer or assistant producer for this, show, right? They're not like they're going to contribute. The show's going to get out and they're going to have a role to play in getting the show out. That's important. They're making that contribution. No question about it. But in terms of impacting how I talk to people, what I say, they got to put some time in before they're going to sit down and say, hey, Delano, you shouldn't say that. Kelly's earned that, right? Yeah. Yeah. And even as like, as she's earned that as my friend and as someone who's been in this industry for a bunch of years and as somebody who says you might be clinically right but i'm a mom

and that didn't sound right to me right and so like that's what i'm saying when it comes to contribution and so like understanding like what's my why aren't i not the leader like dude you're 25 you're brand new hit that gas pedal and crank it right and the contribution part will come over time when someone says this woman is brilliant she works harder than anybody here she knows this craft whatever the craft is um better than anybody she's the person we want to take like help drive this roller coaster that we're all on that's number one okay here's number two and this is the this is really unfair of me but it was unfair when this was said to me so i'm going to say it to you is that cool i'm going to pass this unfairness on um i'm going to be as vague as i can

can. I have a several men in my life who I call like who are I'm different. I am the man I am because they invested in my life. Okay. And so it's deeper than a mentor. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a Yoda, it's a guide. And there's four or five men in my life who fall into that category. Okay. Um, a thing happened at a university that I was asked to do something that was wrong. it violated my core sense of value and so I said I will not do that thing and to my current boss at the Times credit

said I understand that I will do it and take that from you because I honor that's that is a violation of your values but the fact that thing was still happening didn't sit well with me and so sitting down with this with this

I'm trying to think of a right We're sitting down with one of my yodas. How about that? I laid out the situation. Here's where I feel at conflict. Here's where, to their credit, they took this conflict from me because it was a violation of my core values.

And they said, you're right, and we'll own it. But the fact that it's still happening doesn't sit well with me. And here's what this mentor of mine said. And I'm passing it on to you, and I hope it haunts you for the rest of your life too, right?

Because it haunted me bad. He said, John, you are free to go. What's happened wasn't right. What you're asked to do wasn't right. What's going to happen even without you being a part of it isn't right. You're free to go. You're right.

And if everyone leaves, the people you're trying to help will still be there. And so there is something and it goes against our current media ecosystem, especially social media, that sometimes the boldest thing to do is to hand in your letter of resignation. But sometimes the most gangster thing to do is to say, I will continue to stay here

and love people well despite what's happening. But that line he gave me of, you can go, but the people you love and care about, they'll still be stuck here. And if everyone with a voice walks out, right right now I left I left right I left right but I have since stayed many a time because of that sentiment I'm going to take the ex-

question of course I want I want to know what you think about the first I agree entirely that I'm I'm not only not in the contribution stage yet I probably won't be for another five or so years here specifically. Where I feel not entirely clear is if I spend the next five years working to be a contributor here, then by 2031 I can be contributing here. Or if I spend the next five years, if I shift and spend the next five years working on learning how to become a contributor somewhere else, by that same year, I could be doing something entirely different well.

True. Totally true. And yeah. Totally true. And that's where I get stuck again. Yes to both counts. And so instead of feeling stuck, feel grateful that you get multiple paths. Yeah.

And the question, I'll give you the exact scenario I used, okay? So I worked with students from 2000, from 2000, I was in education all the way till I think it was about 20, 2011 or 12 is when I suddenly everything shifted when my students there was almost an overnight switch and Jonathan Heights written a lot about it when my students went from hey I'm like so

and so struggling with drinking so and so struggling with with drug challenges so and so and so struggling with what they want to be when they grow up to almost overnight my whole job shifted to a number of students who were threatening suicide worried about wanting to stay alive anymore, right? And I knew I need to get new, I don't have the skill set at this level to, I knew how to sit with hurting people, but I didn't have the skill set at the policy level, at the legal level. Like I did, I needed, I got to go learn. So I started going to, that's when I went and got back to second PhD in counseling. I need to learn this thing, right? Yeah. And also, I was kind of getting tired of the university system. And so,

I begin to ask myself, what are things I can do? What are some skills I can pick up along the way? So that if I ever do make a transition out of this world, what would that look like? And so here's a couple of things I did. I went to grad school and made it a really, not to get a degree, I wanted to become really good at helping hurting people, which is a different mindset than I want to get a degree, right? the second thing I did is I made a commitment I think in 2013 I'm going to say yes to every single solid speaking request I get every one of them seven people seven thousand people I'm going to say yes to everything because I want to get good at this thing called communicating to a public audience and I also so I made several commitments like that never there was no such thing as a podcast in 2013 never knowing that my whole job would be this. Oh, the other one was I worked with attorneys at the time at a law school. I want to become a really excellent, excellent writer.

Had no idea that I was going to take a job where I was a writer and a public speaker. Like, right? So I want to get really good, good at a few set of skills that I thought would help me wherever I ended up. And I ended up taking another job in higher ed. I loved it. It was rad. And so it was just a context shift. but I really got good at a few skills.

So you have to ask yourself, is staying in this thing for five years, what skills could you pick up? Right. Right. And or I need to cut bait and go learn a whole new trade so that at 30 I'm good to go. I would suggest that who God knows

what's five years from now what the world's going to look like. Right. You might need to be a farmer, right? Who knows? Or there might be like, robots flying around us doing whatever we want like no who knows right but ask yourself what is the skill set I want to have in five years and can being here and deciding I'm going to be excellent at

this job right now and learn how to do this craft well and the adjacent crafts well like writing and sitting with hurting people and for me in public speaking like who knows what doors are open later on because you have those skills and five and a half years of growing service wherever you happen to be. So man, great conversation. You are awesome, Sarah. I wish I could give you an answer, but you have to look yourself in the mirror and say, I'm making this call. Every call you make, every decision you make is going to have consequences and they're going to have opportunities. When you make the call, put your eyes forward, don't look in the rearview mirror and say, okay, I owned this choice. I made it. It might cost me some relationships. It might be some drama.

It might be, I'm going to make a five-year commitment and it's going to be hard. But I'm in it. and look forward to where you want to go. Thanks for the call, sister. You're awesome. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Every year you tell yourself you're going to handle the holidays differently this year. Maybe stay calmer, feel more peace, but then it's the same old pattern.

It shows up every year, the same family tension, the inability to keep healthy boundaries, and you're cranky and tired, and you find yourself snapping at people that you love and actually like being around. This year can be different. You still have time to get ahead of all of the holiday chaos and understand what's behind your reactions and come up with a plan. Therapy can help you build a healthier plan before you actually need it. When you're ready to have that conversation, I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform with more than 30,000 licensed therapist,

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by preparing differently. Go to BetterHelp.com slash Deloni for 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney or click the link in the description. All right, we're back. Kelly, something awesome happened. What is it? Yes, I have an email from Andrea in Indianapolis.

And if you have any cool crap that happened, not you personally, John, I don't want to hear about your cool crap. But anybody else out there has any cool things that happen. Please let us know, email it to us. We would appreciate it. All right. Andrea writes, I've been actively working at building a community post-divorce in a new city

during my mid-life years. Bless our, that sounds really hard. Yeah, that checks every box. Yeah, new city, mid-life, post-divorce. Well, just wait. Making friends in adulthood is as challenging as they say. At work, I chatted with a contractor on one of our big projects,

and we realized we had a lot in common. We spontaneously decided to grab lunch together that same day. She included her spouse, and a few of his coworkers. It ended up being a great time of meeting new people. We swapped numbers

and plan to hang out again soon. I may not take up this new friend's offer of going on a blind date with her ex-husband. Why? That's a yes every time. How would you turn that down? But at least we had a great lunch.

If the blind date happens, I'll call into the show to update you on the assumed mayhem. Oh, please. Thanks for providing examples of ways we adults can connect with those around us, but also encouraging us to take the first step. Awesome.

That's a big one. I'm just going to meet with us, go have lunch with a stranger. Oh, and strangers bringing other strangers? Man, I would have felt that. And stranger wants you to date her ex-husband. Everyone needs that friend in your life. Like, that's a friend that, listen, you may go to jail with that friend, but you're going to have some stories with that friend.

That's a good friend to have. And, man, for the sake of this. show, probably shouldn't date your new friends ex. But also for the sake of the show, please, could you? Yeah, but for like just me and Kelly, just please, please do this, go on this date. That would be incredible. What are you going to talk about when they go to lunch and be like, did he try this move? Like, what are you like?

And what are you going to look? You'd be like, yeah, actually he did. And she's like, it's so great. But watch out. No, no. No, I don't like any of that. But I kind of do. It's kind of awesome.

But no, don't do that. But do it. Do it.