The Dr. John Delony Show - Caller: “I’m Paranoid of Going Broke”

Episode Date: August 26, 2026

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I'm a financial advisor. So I see every day for the last seven years people who were doing everything right, and then something went wrong. There's no number in the bank account that has really brought any peace of mind that if something happens to me, I want my wife and daughter to continue to have a good life. What's going on? What's going on? This is John of the Dr. John Deloney Show. Comment to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls, real calls from real people,

experiencing just the daily grind of life with their marriages, their relationships, their money, their jobs, their kids, whatever you got going on in your life. Pull up a seat and we're going to figure out what's your next right move. If you want to be on this show, click the link in the show notes and to housekeeping things, download the Together app. It's the best marriage app out on the planet. We've been working on it for over a year and it keeps getting better and better and better. So many exciting new features on it.

It is available in the app store right now. Go check it out. And hit the delete. Don't delete. Hit the subscribe. Hit the subscribe and like and share button and all those things. You're doing a good enough job of getting us deleted. I don't need the listeners to do the same.

Correct. That's my job is to get us deleted. Your job is to hit the subscribes and shares and internetty buttons. Let's go out to Tampa, Florida and talk to John. Hey, John. What's up, dude? Hey, John. Good name, by the way.

It's the best name. perfect. Well, hey, if anyone wants a quick testimonial, my wife and I downloaded the Together app about six months ago, and it has changed everything in our marriage. That's awesome, man. Dude, high five to you, brother. Appreciate you, man. Yeah, absolutely. Well, hey, I appreciate your time, and thank you guys for everything that you guys do, even Kelly. Dude, this is my favorite caller of the month so far.

All right, so what you got going on, brother? Yeah, I don't know. Simple, maybe simple. See how it goes. Shortest way is how do I get over what I would call an irrational fear of financial insecurity. Okay, so I'm going to frame it up for you, and then I want you to walk through it with me, okay? Yep. We're not going to get over this. We're going to go right through it. Okay. Okay. So going over it suggests there's, there's, is something in the road that we need to avoid. And instead of doing that, I want us to say,

no, this is a, this is a real thing. And it may have some merit. It may not. We're going to walk right through the middle of it. Cool. Okay. So tell me what you're going on, what you're experiencing, what you're going through? What's your financial situation? Yeah. I mean, I would say when it started, my wife and I had our first child, a little under two years ago. So she's coming up on her second birthday. And when our daughter was born, we made the decision. My wife always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. And thankfully, you know, we were in a financial position to do it.

And technically speaking, I mean, things could not have gone better. We are in a good financial position on paper. I think it's, I guess a short bit of context. I'm a financial advisor. This is what I do for work. Gotcha. So I see every day for the last seven years people who were doing everything right and then something went wrong. Give me an example.

Lost their job, got sick, someone died, they became disabled. I was in Florida. A hurricane came. I mean, any number of things. And it seems like I've met so many people where everything was good. and a couple of things went wrong or they got a little off track or they, you know, started spending a little bit more thinking it wasn't going to be an issue. And 20 years later, they're sitting there relying on a Social Security payment and, you know,

they're struggling to afford their medications. So I have taken every logical step to put ourselves in a position and my wife and I have together to put ourselves in a position to not be there. and I think we've done a good job with it, but there's no number in the bank account or amount of insurance policies or a savings rate or anything that has really brought any piece of mind that if something happens to me,

I want my wife and daughter to continue to have a good life and not have to worry about money. Yeah. Where else in your life, if you look back over the course of your life, where else has this sentiment popped up? Grades. Am I going to find somebody to marry?

Athletic performance. Where else has this shown up? I think probably if I had to go to childhood, like my parents always had. I have one sibling. And if he got a C, he got a pat on his back. If I got a B, I got in trouble. So, you know, I was always held to, whether it's sports, whether it's academics, whether it was college, whether it was career.

You know, he's older than me. And, you know, I'm thankful my parents did this, but they still helped him out financially. And any sort of financial help from my parents ended the day I graduated from college, they said, hey, you can go do this. So it may be, I guess, going back a little bit to that. So, and again, you and I could talk for a few hours on, just kind of, unpacking all of what you just said. But let's pretend for a moment that one of the stories buried deep inside your chest is the following. I'm only as good as my performance.

And I'm essentially on my own. And then all of a sudden you get married, then all of a sudden you have a kid. And those two stories, those two people are anchored into you. And those two stories still play prominent in your, the way you see the world. There's still the glasses that you wear when you view the world. And so now you're a guy walking around.

I will only be worth being loved. My wife and daughter will never be able to be okay unless I show up. And I'm only as good as my performance. And B, there's nobody coming for me and if this thing goes down, I'm out. I'm dead. And now there's two other people in the car riding with me.

that's a heavy heavy burden to bear and there's some semblance of truth in it both are true right yeah and layer on top of actually not on top of it underneath it um i think this is dramatically under talked about and i know it is because of the people i sit with in my private life behind closed doors, a significant number of them are financial advisors, people who deal in the wealth of other people. And I've come to believe that y'all are first responders too, right? And so if you're a first responder and most of your day is in an ER or most of your day, like nobody calls the police when they're having a great day. Nobody calls a fireman when they're having an awesome day. Nobody goes to the emergency room when they're having a great day. And when you live in those worlds,

It's easy to come to believe. Nobody calls a lawyer when they're having a great day, right? So it's easy to come to like that becomes your world that things are bad. Things could go wrong. Things could go wrong. In an essence, you have the, you get to peer over the edge of what could go wrong, but it becomes your everyday day in, day out, all the time. And not to mention, you're not just talking about the clients you see. You're also talking about your colleague's stories. You're also talking about. no financial advisor can predict, could predict seven years ago where we'd be now, and especially no advisor can pick where we're going to look like seven years from now, right? And so there's a lot of risk and a lot of unknown. And so the challenge for you is going to be threefold. One and two is unhooking from these other stories.

I'm worth being loved, even if our net worth goes down. I'm worth being loved. My wife will still love me. I'll still be a good dad, even if we have to sell our house and move to one bedroom apartment. Even I can be a great dad and not be good at this job.

Oof. Right? And especially looking forward, I'm extrapolating out five years, ten years. I have no insider knowledge. I'm making this up, okay? There has to be an existential angst underneath this too that AI is going to take a big part of my job. Who will I be?

What will I do? and that fear can paralyze you or that fear can spur you to what are other things in this realm and this world that I can do to provide value to put food on our table to begin to expand the horizon of what I'm able to do to take care of myself and my family yeah right yeah and so it can be a it can be a thorn that that that freezes you or it can be a thorn that spurs you forward but you can't change the fact that it's a thorn and the third thing you have to do is to have

I'll give the same recommendation I give the other folks that I talk to privately and that I tell every first responder you have to have a group of friends that don't do what you do you have to have a regular practice every one of my friends is in finance I know they are I know they are it's the same way every policeman has friends that are policemen every military

guys surrounds themselves with military folks It's everyone in my world and podcasting world Those worlds get so small That's all you talk about And you end up just talking about shares And YouTube clips And what about this and what's your And you lose the zeal for why you got to do the thing

In the first place And so having friends that are outside of this thing That have different worries Different joys different laughter It lets your body self-regulate You go whom Right? Yeah

Regularly I will say Go ahead Go ahead Sorry to catch you off I mean, the other thing, because I do actually have some friends or not in the world of finance, but honestly, like, it's such a prevalent topic, like, especially in today's world of everyone's talking about their houses and their debts and their mortgages or their rent or their car payments

or whatever. And, you know, I find myself becoming incredibly anxious hearing about, I mean, all friends that would be like, oh, yeah, I financed this, you know, camera that I bought over, 72 months and like hearing other people's financial decisions because I think you know and I I try to be there to help but I don't offer unsolicited advice to people who don't want it but you know hearing whether it's siblings or whether it's friends or it's people that I see making so many poor financial decisions right I mean the average person is the person that calls into the Ramsey show right and it's, you know, those, I want to be able to disconnect from those and just be like, hey, this is their life.

And, you know, I'm not going to agree with most of the financial decisions that other people make. But, you know, beyond my own anxiety around my own situation, I find myself finding a lot of anxiety around other people's financial situations as well, especially when there are people I care about. Because I know what that's going to lead to. Like, I mean, I've even seen it with my parents. And like, I'm not going to tell my parents what to do. And when they come to me for advice, great. But, you know, I look at my dad and I'm being him, he's going to spend through everything. And he's going to have nothing left.

And that, you know, I have a lot of fear for the people I care about in their financial situations as well. And so there's a difference between fear and anxiety. Fear is right. You should be worried about your parents. if they're making unwise financial decisions and you have sat down with enough people to see the train wreck coming that is their life, you're right to be scared.

Anxiety is trying to go 20 years into the future and drag that problem home today and solve it for them, which you can't do. It can be a matter of you and your wife sitting down saying, hey, here's the reality I see before me and my family, our families, we're going to have to put a little bit extra money aside

because there's a strong possibility one or two or four of our parents are living with us someday. Cool. That is a thing I can do in the present to begin stacking bricks for a future flood. But once I make that, like I'm going to stack two bricks a month.

That's what I can do right now. Then the next thing is sitting in the grief. It's a bummer. And when you see everybody, making financial mistakes, financial, like, like you say, you said when you first called, like, I see people doing all the right things. If you're honest, a lot of people aren't doing the right things. You know what I mean? And so there is a collective, it's like being on the Titanic and watching people shoot holes in the bottom of the boat. Like at some point, all of these decisions

affect all of us. Right? If everybody just collectively one Monday decided to not pay their student loans back that domino would be just like extraordinary right yeah or if there's one tiny correction in in this circular AI funding thing going on we're all one for a ride right and so i have to recognize my fear my frustration all that is real and then i have to go back to what can i do right now with the limited power and scope i have i can love really well i can make sure that i'm in service to myself so that I can show up and do these really hard jobs. I can be sober and honest about the future. And then I'm going to bring you back to a buddy of mine who's a finance guy.

Man, this one sentence changed my life. It may not change yours at all. But this is years ago when I was, I mean, I was in the throes of anxiety. I was right actually the age you were. Like I had a young kid. I was married. I was starting to feel this just the squat bar of, life just started getting piled up with weight that I didn't think I was strong enough to hold.

And I was just berating him. What if this happens? And what if the dollar does this? And what if crypto does this? And what if this moves and this Spain defaults here? And it rolls over to Argentina over here. And Brazil's oil exports dry up here. And he finally looked at me and said, hey, John, I don't have a meteorite plan. And that, he said, if a meteorite hits the world, which is what you're describing, I'll deal with that. That. and for whatever reason that sentence freed me because this guy said he's not a ramesy guy at all he's a banker

so he his job is debt and he writes checks for his cars he has no car payment I mean no home payment they bought a smaller house than him and his wife could have I mean they could have bought a 5x house than they live in now and it's a really nice place they have now and he paid it off he paid it off with a 2.8 or whatever percent APR because he was saying

I am just clearing my side of the risk profile so that all of the best case of the meteorite hits. But I'm not going to spend my days worrying about what happens if a meteorite hits because the world will be so different when it does hit that any of my pre-planning is going to be futile. Unless I have a billion dollars and I can build one of these bunkers that supposedly people are built. And even then they'll run out of food and electricity. And if somebody knows where your bunker is, that's where a million people are going to head. Right? So it is just is what it is. But that line of, I don't have a meteorite plan, for whatever reason, it set me free. Yeah. Well, I mean, and I've never, I guess, thought about it myself. One of my most common things I tell my clients is we can't plan for Armageddon. There you go. There you go.

It's basically the same exact thing. But. And so if you kept a journal, if you kept a journal of the things that make you uncomfortable, make you nervous, that's right. and then if you had a thing that said Armageddon and you're like yeah I can't if that happens I can't deal with that and here's a couple other tips and tricks that I do myself and that I give to first responders if you have somebody that you're sitting down with and their dad sports gambled all their money away

or fell in love with some catfishing scheme and sent away all his stuff or got dementia and all of a sudden they didn't have a will and yada yada yada yada yada Got it. Take the time at the end of your day to write that person a letter that you'll never send. Grieve with them. Be sad with them.

But what you're doing with their story is you're getting it out of your body and putting it on paper. You're distancing yourself from their story. Because at the end of the day, whatever happens in their life is happening to them, not to you, not to your wife, not to your daughter. But it's a way for your body to put a period at the end of their story. sentence. It makes a lot of sense. Right. But it's a, it's a, it's a health and wellness practice for first responders. Okay. And not, you know, internalizing and taking everything that happens out there and picturing it happening in my own life. Correct. And also, I'm going to send you a copy of building an unenchantless life. And thank you for honoring yourself and all of us by going behind closed doors

and helping calm the fears of a world spun out of control in the financial world. You're a good man, dude. We come back. A man asks how to protect his peace while fighting to protect his kids in a high-conflict custody battle. Yikes. We'll be right back. Hey, it's Deloney. No matter what you do, your personal information is everywhere. You have to supply your information to do anything online, your home address, your phone number, your email address.

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That's join deleteme.com slash deloney. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so the folks at BetterHelp just released their annual state of stigma report. It's full of all sorts of data about why so many people avoid getting help for their mental and emotional health challenges. Here's a data point that stood out to me that kind of shook me. More than three out of four Americans, three out of four reported anxiety or depression symptoms over the last two weeks. If that's you and you're carrying stress, anxiety, or depression symptoms, talking to someone can help you more than you could ever imagine. I want you to reach out to BetterHelp.

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Hello, Dr. John. How are you? I'm excellent, brother. How are you? Oh, live in the dream, just waiting to wake up. I was going to say anyone who says live in the dream is not too. doing great. That's about, that's about right. Pretty accurate.

So what's going on, man? So I'm in a high conflict custody battle and divorce. It's been going on for since February of last year. Oh, my gosh. But it was a result of an affair for five years that I've known for the last five years trying to fight for the marriage. the issue that I'm constantly coming across right now is my ex-wife's partner

is encouraging my children who are eight and five to call him dad and by reaching out to this partner's daughters on the advice of my lawyer with all the stuff that we found. I'm constantly finding evidence. I'm trying to protect the kids. and I'm just trying to, like, it just seems like I'm always buried on the phone,

trying to find the next thing on this guy, trying to find how I can protect my kids in the court system right now. Okay, hold on, hold on, brother. Stay with me, okay. Yeah. You're at war with somebody who for five years showed you, they're dishonest, they have no integrity, and they don't care about you. So you're trying to keep the honorable rules of engagement

while fighting somebody who has no scruples. And that person's hired mercenaries. on their behalf who also have no scruples, who are weaponizing kids. And so I'm telling you that to tell you, you're an unwinnable fight, and the smart thing to do when you're in an unwinnable fight

is to back out of a fight. Okay? Okay. You're burying yourself. Financially, you're burying yourself emotionally. You're burying yourself spiritually. And the very thing you're scared of

is about to come to fruition, which is when you're with your kids, they see an exhausted, panicked, burned out dad, and this other dude holding the lollipops, for a child's nervous system is going to start to feel more appealing in the short term. I'm not going to give him that. I don't think there's any law that says he can't say

what he wants to be called in his own house, as gross as that is. Well, so this is where, at first, if you would have asked me literally, probably a year ago, this wouldn't be even a question. But what happened is this guy started acting as a legal guardian. Does he have legal custody of your kids?

No, there's no court order. There's no nothing. We're still in the early stages still. How are we still in the early stages of divorce after February? The system had an overhaul in Canada as of January 1st or January 2nd of this year. we were trying to do it all through mediation and four-way meetings and it didn't go successful now we're starting the next step

there's a whole process now with this new family law in Canada that we have to follow I'm sorry it's been a nightmare and even all lawyers agree that this new system is horrible but it's what we're doing dealt with right now. So is there a way to call the police and say that somebody illegally, an adult illegally signed their name to your kid stuff? We, we dealt with that to the lawyers there.

So they made it clear. No, I'm talking about through the legal system. Yeah, see, because my ex-life granted that permission, essentially. So on her behalf, he was allowed to do this technically, but not in a court system. Like, this is definitely a strike on there from my understanding. standing. And it was a, to them, it was a one-time incident at this moment. There's been two other times that this has happened now, and we're pursuing it.

Unfortunately, through family law, it's just a little slow process. We're hoping in the next couple months we'll be in court in front of a judge. Okay. So let me ask you this. Now that you filed it and now that you figured it out, is constantly going back for more, helping you show up as the man you want to be? I don't know if it's that or if it's just I have nothing better to do during the week. There we go.

There we go. 50-50 custody and knowing that, knowing what I know, it's hard to just stand by as a father. You're not standing by. You've done what you can. You've sent the orders to your mercenaries, your attorneys, and they're in a gut-wrenching, heartbreaking mess. of a legal system.

But I think you nailed it on the head. What must be true in your own life? Knowing this is floating out there and knowing you've done everything you can up into this point and knowing it might be two or three months before you sit in front of a judge and can tell your story

and know that the fate of your kid's well-being rests on this judge's shoulders, not on justice. And it sounds like it's a new system, so even your own lawyers are like, dude, you're one of the guinea pigs here. we're trying to figure this out, knowing all of that,

and that's real and that's big, and that's a hovering shadow over your life. No question. But what that doesn't do is give you permission to not do the other things that keep you well and whole so that in three months

you show up as the best version of yourself in front of that judge, so that on the day and day interactions you have with your kids, they see your delight in them. Yeah. I know whenever I get them on the three weekends a month that I get them.

It's definitely a relief in that, and I could definitely feel a lot different whenever I'm with them at peace. So I don't know if it's rubbing off that way, or if they know exactly. How old are your kids? They're eight and five. Okay.

You're playing a 10 to 15-year game now. The situation you're in right this second, is I want to give them my full presence, my full love, all I've got when they're here. And when they're 18 and 21 and 25, I want them to have a felt-lived experience that there was one adult on our team always. And it was dad. Yeah. Right? You're not going to get short-term validation, short-term win, short-term whatever.

In fact, it's going to go the opposite. it because my guess is this person that you created these kids with is not a person of integrity they care about themselves and only themselves even to the point that they will not do what's in the best interest of their kids so that they can prop up an image of themselves and they can hurt you and the war is not with the legal system the war is not with the what it's the war is inside your own chest which is I'm not going to give them me and for them to not get you you're going to have to spend an inordinate amount of time seeking light seeking laughter seeking joy seeking exercise seeking things that bring you um fulfillment from the inside out because you're not

going to get it from the outside in you what i'm saying this is hard what i'm saying yeah and you're going have to let go of the shame of i shouldn't have fought for this for five years you're going to have to let go of the i should have i should have i could have all those things all those stories that's have periods at the end of the sentence. The only thing that doesn't is whatever story you write starting today. If you don't show up to court, if you don't file the papers, then you're not fighting. But you've done those things. And pacing the house and stirring up and being angry and frustrated when your kids aren't with you, man, I get it, but it's not in service to you. It's you drinking poison all day hoping that your ex-wife gets sick. Now you're right. And your kids need

their dad, man. They've had everything else taken away from them. And the day will come when they're old enough for you to sit down and they say, Dad, why did you do this and why didn't you do that? And you can say, I did the best I could with what I knew. Your mom hurt me real bad and I tried to love her as well as possible. Right, but that day's not today. They're eight and five. Yeah.

I know they keep asking me why I made the wrong decision to leave. Yeah. That's always a tough one to try and. Yeah. And an eight and a five-year-old can't wrap their heads around reality. no and so it's weathering those hard conversations those hard statements and you know what they're getting pumped full of on the other

side of this deal yeah so then my thing is how do I know the difference of protecting the kids when to call it quits and I'm not saying let me rephrase what I said I'm not saying call it quits I'm saying the hardest like for the folks I know that work with high-end athletes, they always tell me the hardest thing for them is to get these athletes to rest. They've put in the workout that day.

They've pushed their body to the limit and they come home and they take a nap and they drink some electrolytes and then they want to go to do another workout. They want to do another stretching exercise or another functional and they're like, you need to just play video games. Your body's had enough today. And that's what I'm telling you. You've been fighting, man. and I want you to keep fighting

but I also want you to know when the fighting is actually wearing you out more than it's helping anything else and it sounds like you've made your cases you've found when this guy violated the law you've handed that over to your attorneys they're waiting for their moment in court

you're waiting for your moment in court and so you've done your really brutal hard workout let's rest and if something pops up tomorrow where you got a spring to action you'll be ready to rock and roll, man. If they say, we need more paperwork, we need more this, we need another example of, got it, I'm in.

But if your attorneys are regularly telling you, we've got what we need, we're just waiting on this ridiculous new system. The backwards, he's just wanted to, actually he says, I should be in the wrong line of work here, I should be a private investigator. It's quite impressed with everything I've gotten. Dude, you, any parent, Mess with my kids and you'll find out what I'm made of, right?

Oh, and not so. But you've got your photos using your private detectives. You got your photos. You got the smoking gun emails. Sitting out in front of that apartment for more hours, eating peanut butter sandwiches, trying to get more photos. Like, at what point is that helping you anymore? Yeah.

Or if you came home and you just felt the emptiness and the silence in your heart, home and you let it wash over you and you pull out some pencils and some paper and you drew your five-year-old silly pictures and you wrote your eight-year-old an age-appropriate note and you folded it in the envelope so every time they come see you they leave with 15 pictures and letters from dad a that would give them that would give you something to do with your energy and direct it towards where your heart's really broken, which is those kids are not in your life. It would help you begin to restore some of your own dignity. I keep my promises to myself.

I write my kids a letter every day. And I'm just making that up. Dude, it could be every other day. I don't want to put something on you. And also those kids would leave with a stack of stuff. And maybe their new step-parent or your wife, your ex-wife, throws them away. But, man, they keep showing up and they get a stack every time. You all read them together.

You go through them together. whatever, but they'll remember the stacks. And eventually it will dawn on them. Hey, mom, you keep throwing away my letters to dad, like from dad. Right? That's a good idea. It's a long, long, long game. And I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I'm sorry we were working through it, brother. If you haven't already, I think it's time to go sit down with a professional, a counselor, just where you can be completely vulnerable and completely open. I'm just hurting. I'm a dad who's had his kids ripped away. I'm a dad who's, I'm a husband whose heart got ripped out of his chest for five straight years.

I'm a citizen trying to do the next right thing. And the system, I'm watching my kids wither in front of me and the system won't help. The system designed to help me isn't helping. It's making it worse. Just having a place where you can share that, some other men in your life that you can sit down and talk with and share this grief with.

An exercise plan, going to a movie once a week, a book club, going out and doing things, starting, I don't know, join an improv group, go to a local church, starting things that I'm going to go be a part of because they inject life into me into an otherwise lifeless body right now because my kids aren't here. It's doing those small things, man, and fight when you got to. But knowing when, it's okay, it's not for me to put my gloves down. The round is over. So I can be ready to rock and roll the next time. Sorry, my brother. I'm heartbroken. with you, dude. Jeez, man.

Call us back in a few months when you get to go to court. I'm kind of invested in this now. I want to see how it goes out. My hope is the judge is 100% on your size, sees this madness for what it is, unless a father who loves his kids actually love him. Thank you for the call, brother. We come back.

A woman asks how to handle negative student evals without letting them define her. We'll be right back. Hey, it's Deloney for Hallow. What could you accomplish? in 90 days, right? About three months, what could you start doing right now that would transform your life? You could start getting in shape, exercising, you could start losing that weight that's been bothering you forever. You could transform your marriage by just being kinder to each other on a daily

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If you want more peace, if you want to be more grounded in your faith, I want you to give Halo a try. You can try Hallow for free for 90 days at hallow.com slash Deloni. That's three months for free at hollow.com slash Deloni. Let's go out to Boise, Idaho and talk to Nicole. Hey, Nicole, what's going on, lady? Hey, great. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you.

What's going on? First, I have to say that your ability to see and get people over the phone is a gift. So thank you. Thank you so much. I'm grateful for that. Appreciate you. Okay, so I started teaching at a local community college about three years ago, started as an instructor, recently got promoted to assistant professor, so that's exciting.

Congratulations. Thanks. But every semester, as you probably know, I think you, said you taught in the colleges, we get student evaluations. And I tend to, well, I do hide from those. I read a few at the insistence of some friends over the phone with them. And anyway, I just keep hiding from them. I don't want to read them. I'm too afraid of what they're going to say. And I have in the past read a couple that were, you know, negative and they sort of stuck with me forever. So I just want to know how to approach those. I've had some people tell me, hey, you don't need to read them

and other people say you should. So I just wondered what you had to say. Man, there's a lot there. And I think this is instructive. So I appreciate you calling. Backing out, I had somebody the other day at church just lean over and say, hey, how do you handle the mean comments? Right. Or, you know, physicians who are racing in to save somebody's life, how do you handle now that they all have a customer service scores, right? And all of us are surrounded by metrics that try to sum up the complexity of human interaction into a number, right? And it becomes the, if we let those metrics, there's a, there's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant,

brilliant book. My buddy Michael Easter pointed it to me, brilliant book by the author's last name is Wynn, NYG, U-N, I think, and it's called The Score. I'd highly recommend you read it, okay? Okay. Because it talks about, he's a philosophy professor

who studies games and how games are bounded, right? They tell you what to care about and then they give you the score of how to win that interaction, right? So on its face, basketball is kind of stupid. It doesn't make any sense in the practical sense of,

I need to get this ball 10 feet off the ground into a basket, right? But the game binds it and then gives us the rules for how we can get that ball in that basket and then we all suddenly care about it, right? The problem is we've taken that same gaming scoring system and we've tried to metric everything

or you hear it like if you can't score it, if you can't measure it does it's not real, right? And we've tried to turn every human interaction into a series of like biological interactions, yadda, all I'll like to say is this. you have to ask yourself what game you want to be playing number one are you into teaching to make everybody happy i thought i was but yeah not anymore okay um and the second thing i want you to ask yourself is or any teacher is their job is to be the iron that other iron rubs up against to help sharpen that iron right you're the wet stone

and your students are dull blades. That's what teachers do. And that means by necessity, that friction is uncomfortable, right? And we have a culture that's allergic to discomfort. They think everything should be frictionless. And so by its nature, teaching evals are going to try to distill down a relationship between a teacher and a student into a customer service eval, right? And you've heard this.

for professors, there's become this implicit unspoken contract. I'll give you an easy ride. You give me a good teaching eval and we all move on about our lives. You get your A or your B. I get my good score and we high-five each other and move on. And what we've done by making that contract over the last 25 to 30 years is we've ended education. Right? Because by nature, this relationship should be uncomfortable for both,

both the teacher and the student. So I tell you that to tell you this. Ask yourself if that's the game you want to play. Because you know how to play that game. You can get good teaching you vows. It's pretty easy. All right. Or do I want to be a teacher whose students look back and say that teacher pushed me

and I may better fill in the blank because I had that person in my life? That's a long game and it comes at a short-term cost. And then let me ask you the complete opposite, okay? The teaching evals that you've read that have stuck with you Were they right? Yeah, actually, when I first started, I was new to the material. I mean, it was in my degree field, but I hadn't taught in a long time. And they said something like, you know, just reads off the slides, doesn't know the material,

no point coming to class. And in some ways, that was true. I mean, I did rely heavily on the slides. Okay, hold on. Sit in that for a second. Yeah. Their feedback was right. Mm-hmm.

Their feedback was right. And that hurts. That stinks. Yeah. Even if you were asked to teach a course that you weren't ready for, which happens to all, especially a community college professor, like, but all professors like, hey, I need you to teach this class. You got to teach us when you got teachers when. You're like, man, I haven't had that class since grad school.

And that was eight years ago. But I got to figure it out. And you're kind of learning in real time and trying to, that feedback's right. And so the question I have for you is since that you got that feedback and you metabolized it, you're like, man, there was something to it. Forget the score, just the notes, right? Is that right? And what have I done since then to make sure I address that?

Yeah. So for me, the teaching evals were, I always read them, and I know that I'm extra sensitive, and I want teachers who are sensitive. So the challenge for you is to not be so hard, like your colleagues that have just said, I don't even read that crap anymore. But to also begin over time

to have some toughening of your skin, that is there's always going to be one or two grenade throwers in every room. And also, I have to put aside the other side of the bell curve, which is there's always going to be a couple of flower givers in every room too, right?

Yeah. What's the core sentiment of what they said? This was a good experience. for me. Thank you. But my deeper question for you is, how have you outsourced yourself worth? Because this is deeper than instructive feedback or like this has become a part of you. What is it about you as a teacher, as a professor, where you feel the need to outsource yourself worth to this group of, this new crop of strangers every semester? Yeah, that's a good question. I've always, even in, I work in industry for a while and I even would be a,

afraid of my boss's evaluation, even though, you know, it was positive. It was always like I just couldn't handle any kind of feedback that was criticism. It was hard. So let's back. Let's rephrase that. Criticism causes a disproportionate response in my body. So first thing we're going to do is we're going to thank our body for trying to protect us. And we're not going to use words like can't. We're going to use words like, man, my body's, we're going to use curiosity words, not not declarative statements. Why does my body try to protect me so much in these situations? And then get underneath that. What am I scared of? What story have I been given throughout my life that I'm always waiting for the other shooter job? Because then it turns your body not into an opponent, but it turns your body

into a friend, a supporter, somebody trying to keep you safe. And then we're going to deal with, oh, I used to not be safe. I used to work in a job that any given Friday I could randomly be fired. I used to have parents who were very chaotic and I had to, it was a dice roll whether I was going to get affection and have my needs met. But now I'm an adult and now that's not the case anymore. Now I'm in a safe place. Is that resonating? Yeah, definitely. You got real quiet on me. Tell me what you're feeling, what you're thinking. Just crying a little bit. Yeah. Oh, I don't want to make you cry. I'm sorry. It's good. I've had a lot of transition reasonably and stuff like that.

And I've just started this in that Dave Ramsey, January or June 28th, and I got my finances in order, and I've actually gotten a lot more confidence, but I still, you know, think about evaluations, and I go, get a little bit of pit in my stomach and go, can I read those? But I do think I can. I just need to do what you're saying. Just like, it's not, it doesn't tell me. about my worth, it just gives me some feedback.

And surprisingly, I have, usually have every semester a couple students that will thank me an email, you know, for whatever. And so I know that there, you know, majority of them are positive. It's just that, yeah, I'm just learning to handle any kind of criticism and be able to push past it. In my world, my line of work, we call it Speakers Math, where I can go speak to a thousand people and 99 of them can tell me

that was the greatest thing I changed my life. I'm going to have a better relationship with my kids and marriage, yada, yada, yada. And one person can go, eh, kind of sucked. And I won't sleep for a week.

Like, part of that is, if you're good at communicating and building relationships with people, that means you have an openness. That means you have a relational vulnerability as a part of you. And that means for folks like us to do this work,

we also have to accept some people are going to come at us sometimes. and then I get to choose what I do with that information. And it's not always pretty. I have, I don't read most of the comments on my stuff. A, I have a team and Kelly will tell me, hey, this particular thing has really surfaced and bubbled up. We need to address this.

Or I can't tell the difference between bots and real people Who knows? I just don't know, right? And so I do read direct messages often on my, on, I don't read the like big long like hand me some help with these things. But I do read, I mean, people reach out to me directly. And some of that I can do something about. Some of it I can't. And if I hear several things on a particular call that I, that I think I blew it on, I usually know it. You know what I mean? And I take that feedback and say I could do. something better and I have a group of people that I trust. For you, the exposure part of this is less about, all right, I'm just going to turn the fire hose on. It might be you sending them to a colleague who agrees to bucket them for you. Here's the overly negative. Here's the overly flowery and here's kind of the general sentiment. Or I'm going to read four of them today or five of them today.

Or I'm going to block off half a day and read all these evals and I'm going to keep a note of agree, disagree, needs improvement, crushed it. I'm going to take like a qualitative coding approach to that. Okay. But it's you doing something with that feedback, right? Yeah. But I think the bigger issue is feeling that pit in your stomach, like feeling it, and then asking yourself, is this true?

Am I going to lose my job? No. Have I evidently done a good enough job that I got promoted? Yes. Did I feel good about how I handled the material? how I did this job this semester? Yes. Are there always going to be people

that just like everybody? Yep. They're always going to people who just hate everybody? Yep. But the tension is the pathway here. So it's like the discomfort. I'm going to head into it.

I'm going to head into it. Knowledgeable. Yeah. And what does that mean for you? That means don't read these at 10 o'clock at night after two glasses of wine on a Friday. Right? Don't read these at the end of a long, long,

long day when you're already frustrated. and exhausted. Set up a time to read them with two other colleagues at 9 a.m. when you all go through them together. Okay. Have a review party at your house where two other colleagues

show up and bring coffee and pastries or whatever and you all get your laptops out and each read your own reviews to each other and use it as an iron sharpens iron thing like go back and forth with each other. At some events that I speak at there's speaker scores.

They get, you get like, the whole talk gets distilled down into a number. Do I like it better than this person's? And that person may be more entertaining. This person may be more emotional. Everybody's crying in the audience. This person may have way better information, but it wasn't delivered in like a compelling way. Those scores are fine and they're helpful and instructive,

but what's more instructive is to then circle back around with the folks in that room and say, all right, given the event, given how you did, given this score, how do we think this went, and what can we do better next time, and what was perfect we need to keep for next time? That's all helpful, and it doesn't always feel good. Sometimes it feels awful, but it's serving a purpose for what am I going to do next? So hopefully that helps, Nicole.

I've been right where you are, too, I've been there. And this is for everybody, not just teachers, this is anybody whose entire job has been distilled done into a particular metric. And I got this from Wynn, and it's a great question to ask, is this the game I want to be playing? because you get to often answer that question, how you best want to answer it. We'll be right back. Hey, it's Deloney.

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Cozy Earth somehow makes everything amazing. Go to cozyearth.com slash Deloney and use code Deloney for up to 20% off your entire order. That's cozyearth.com slash Deloni with code Deloney. And if you get a post-purched survey, told Cozy Earth you heard about their amazing gear right here on the Dr. John Deloney's show. Make home the best part of your life. All right, Kelly, am I the problem? All right, so this is from Kylie in Logan, Ohio, and she writes. My whole family is going on a beach vacation, including my younger adult siblings. My 25-year-old sister tends to wear next to nothing when she goes to the beach or the pool. Swimsuits are revealing anyways, but I'm talking, barely covering the important parts

and everything is hanging out. I know she will probably take it really personally when I confront her about it, but I think for a family vacation where she will be around kids, that a slightly more modest swimsuit choice would be better. Am I the problem? You're welcome. No. I mean, I, there's so much unspoken here. So I guess what I would say is if you're going on a family vacation and you're bringing your kids along and you have a family member that's doing anything that you think will be a net negative to your kids to the point that you want to have that conversation, then have a conversation. You can't control how your 25-year-old sister responds. You can't control it. All you can control is you. Do I think you're the problem for wanting modesty around your kids on a family

vacation? No. And do I think it's strange for a 25-year-old to flaunt their goods on a family vacation? Yes. That just seems strange to me. So have the conversation. Now, I don't think of the problem. What do you think, Kelly? I agree. I mean, first of all, the 25-year-old is old enough to have a little bit of awareness to be like, come on. There's kids. There's kids. And also, family vacation, like your siblings and your parents might be there. Come on. Ew. But no, just have the conversation, be like, come on, put something, can you wear something a little more? Covering.

Yeah. And some of that is just about, it's even beyond modesty. It's about wisdom. It's about, it's about dignity, right? It's like, if you want to, never mind,

I'm going to get myself canceled. No, you're not the problem. Your 25-year-old, immature sister is. And, yes, have that conversation. You can't control how she responds. You can't control her temper. for tantrums, but you can't control how you show up. Love you guys. Bye.