The Dr. John Delony Show - Can I Force My Kids To Like Their Dad?

Episode Date: November 18, 2022

On this episode, we talk to: - A single mom unsure if she should force her kids to have a relationship with their dad - A man struggling to grieve the deaths of his mom and sister, who he lost just six days apart - A woman still triggered by the trauma of her past mental health issues Lyrics of the Day: "Interstate Love Song" - Stone Temple Pilots Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My mom was in the hospital 42 days. My sister, 35. And my sister passed first. Oh, jeez. Six days later, my mom passed. I don't know that I've grieved it at all. I've been sad.

I've cried more times than I could possibly count. Woo! sad. I've cried more times than I could possibly count. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Maloney Show. The greatest show you could possibly be listening to. There's a billion and a half podcasts, and this is the best use of your time. It's the greatest mental health and marriage and parenting podcast that has ever existed. And I'm so glad that you're with us. And I'm just taking a cue from politics. And if I just keep saying it, it becomes true all of a sudden.

I like, what's the thing to say nowadays? It's my truth. Right? As though that's a thing. It's my truth. Hey, if you want to be on the show, give me a buzz. 1-844-693-3291. And give me a call, leave a message, and Jenna will give you a call back, and we'll talk through what's going on in your life. And we'll have you on the show. Can't wait. Or you can go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And thank you, thank you, thank you.

The five-star reviews are starting to pour in. In fact, the guy here at Ramsey Solutions where I work, who's over podcast, said, what happened? We just got an onslaught of reviews and subscribers. So thank you so much. This just sends the show out to so many other people so they can get the help they need. You know what? They may not even get help.

They just, you know, it's just good to feel like you're not the only one going through some of this stuff, right? You're not crazy. So thank you so much for the reviews. Please just hit the subscribe button. It's very, very simple and it really helps us out.

Hey, this is super rad. Kelly handed me this. Came out a few weeks ago. The headline is Lonely 67-Year-Old Sets Up Woodworking Shed to Combat Loneliness in Men Following a Global Trend. It says, across the English-speaking world, men are learning that the easiest way to cure a bout of social isolation is not by talking face to face, but shoulder to shoulder. Philip Jackson moved back to England from Australia.

He was 67 and felt like a stray dog in his native town. And so he got a shed and started inviting men and women over to do woodworking together. It's about plugging into the social fabric of a community, whether that's through meeting up for coffee, building a park bench, or listening to the problems someone is going through in their marriage. It's a break from people's weekly routines. In 2005, there's an estimated 200 men's sheds operating in Australia.

And today there is a membership base of over 1,200, 1,200 men's sheds. And you can, even the Ministry for health and aged care have started offering 10 grand for people. And this is in Australia to kick these things up and get them going. There are 17 US men's sheds, way to go America, including one in Hawaii. Let's get more of these up. I was just talking to my friend Gwaine. We're going to start playing guitar together here up at the office. In fact, I even traded an old gun for a guitar case. How's that for liberal propaganda? I traded a gun for an old guitar. I mean, not a guitar case, for an old amplifier, a small one that I can bring up here and leave at the office. And me and my buddies

are going to start jamming up here. I figure I've played for about 35 years. I should be better anyway. So I'm going to start taking lessons. I'm gonna learn. And it's just gonna be some guys hanging out playing guitar together, which is gonna be good for us. It's gonna be good for our families. It's gonna be good for our communities. Here's the deal.

It's not really a woodworking shop. Jackson says it's a community enterprise where people with problems can come and discuss them with friends. For Americans who feel a woodworking support group would be welcome in their community, the U.S. Men's Shed Association. There's an association for everybody. The U.S. Men's Shed Association, sounds like a Garth Brooks song, has plenty of resources for

those looking to start their own shed, including a step-by-step process for getting a 501c3 nonprofit status, applying for grants from healthcare and other funding sources to launch a program, even ideas for your first meeting. Here's the deal. Do something. Do something. When people ask me, hey, how do I make friends? How do I get connected? Go first. Go first. Go first. And you know what's going to happen? There's going to be some weirdos that show up. There for sure are. And some folks with crazy problems. And you have to say, I don't know what you're talking about. You need to go see a counselor.

Hey, will you pass the miter saw, please? Like, it's a matter of just getting in community together. Because there's going to be a group of people that you connect with that end up becoming a ride or dies if you will just go first. So good, good on this guy, good on this guy and good to the 17 folks in America who've started up these men's sheds. And I hope to see a whole, whole bunch more, um, local YMCAs, local churches, local community leaders. Let's get it going. Just, I don't care what the group is. Let's just start getting people together and, things we can do with one another. All right, let's go to Kristen in, man, we have been living in Seattle lately, man.

Home of the grunge movement. What's up, Kristen? How are we doing? Good. How are you? Good. Are you just thinking about Pearl Jam and Nirvana this morning? Is that what you do in Seattle when you wake up?

Just, I don't know. No, I'm not the typical Seattle person for you. That's my favorite answer of the day. Are you just waking up thinking of Pearl Jam and Nirvana and you just go, no, no. That's so great, Kristen. I do have to say, I love the men's shed thing. I, I think there is something to say about creating a space where people can do things while they open up and talk. Cause I think it's so, it's not intimidating. And I think more of that needs to be happening.

I agree. There's something about doing something with somebody that makes it easier to have a conversation than it does just putting your hands in your lap and staring at somebody and them saying, tell me what's wrong with your life. And on that note, Kristen, tell me what's wrong with your life. Let's just make this as weird as possible. All right, what's up? No, that's okay. I have three teenagers, ages 13, 16, and 18.

And my question is, I'm also, I've been divorced for five years. And so I understand my kids are best served if they have healthy relationships with both their dad and myself. same time helping them understand what healthy relationship boundaries look like when he's probably not a healthy relationship and he's making choices that don't create a healthy relationship. You just said that in the most eloquently evasive way I've heard in a long time. Like you were very gifted at that. Like I could get off the phone now and feel really good. And if someone's like, what did she say? I would go, I don't know, but it just sounded so nice. So let's get to the nitty gritty.

Here's what I think I heard. You got divorced five years ago and I'm just going to throw it out there. You may say you're an idiot. You still aren't a super fan of the divorce and your husband is not being the dad that you envisioned him being as a co-parent and your kids are struggling. A hundred percent. I, 100% I chose the divorce I don't regret it however I am broken hearted every single day that I wrote a chapter of my kids life for them that they are now stuck with

and I think he is doing a terrible job of parenting there we go thank you thank you for speaking English. Now I'm talking. He sucks. And I'm, I'm doing my best.

I have, um, I've encouraged them to have conversations with him to identify the problem, help him figure out like, can they're missing out on quality time. He doesn't make time for them. So can you suggest, can we go for a walk, Dad? Can we go for ice cream? Can we have a movie night? I've met with his new wife. We've had a conversation.

I've met with the pastor in the church that he respects about how to encourage a healthy relationship with his kids. There's nothing I've done that it's helped him make changes he needs to have good relationships with his kids. And I don't know how to handle it as a supportive co-parent on my behalf. You have to open up your hands and let that go. Because that's your fantasy, not his. And I hate that for you. Mike, there's nothing you can do. He is making a choice to not be involved in his kid's life.

And that's going to be his cross to carry for a long, long time. You mentioned at the very beginning of the call, the best thing for them, you're exactly right, is two adults who lean in and love their kids. Your kids aren't going to get the best. And it's making peace with that. You waking up every day and choosing to live brokenhearted is adding more bricks to their backpacks that they don't need to carry. Why do you regret this? You say you don't regret it. I disagree with you. What is the baggage you're still carrying? Do you wish y'all had worked it out? Do you wish you'd stuck it out? What are you hanging on to? Or you just wish that you hadn't have put your... What is it that you're upset with yourself over? That I created a divorced home for my kids. I was in the marriage for 17 years. It was very

lonely. There was never any emotional intimacy. There was never a friendship. It was very much me raising four kids on my own, basically being a single parent in that marriage. I do not regret leaving the relationship. I regret the heartache a divorced home creates for my kids. Did you also regret the heartache a divorced home creates for my kids. Did you also regret the heartache that a lonely, isolated spouse creates? Did you also lament the heartache that your kids are going to have to carry watching their dad act like a grown-up child and forcing mom into a parental role instead of a partnership role like you you made a choice a relational choice because you couldn't survive anymore and yes that choice comes with consequences no no mistaking that but choosing something else would have come with consequences potentially more extreme ones because your else would have come with consequences, potentially more extreme ones.

Because your kids would have grown up in a home so filled with tension and so filled with angst and so filled with rage that they would have spent all of their time wondering what was wrong with them because they felt insane. At least now they have something to point at, right? Yeah. And they've got a mom that loves them like crazy. Fair? Absolutely. And so the story of their dad is unfolding in front of them And we don't want this, you know, I mean this isn't something you would cheer for or hope for Right, but there will come a moment when your kids if they haven't already go. Oh Okay

Oh, they're there. Okay, right. And here's where that's dangerous for a kid. You've probably heard me say this before, but they know that half of them is that guy. And what if that turns out to be me? What is so bad about me? Why would my dad choose fill in the blank other than their kid? They're searching for answers that have logical conclusion. I mean, they're asking questions that have logical answers

and they're not being met with logical responses. And it's just unnerving. And the best you can do is love them like crazy. And we talk about that a lot because I've heard you say that quite often. And especially my 18 year old, he doesn't see his dad and he doesn't talk to his dad anymore. And he has said multiple times,

I never want to be like him or I'm going to make sticky notes and put them up on my bathroom mirror. When I have my own place, it says, do not be your dad. Okay. Here's, here's where mom,

you can really help out because what that's telling him is half of me is dysfunctional and broken. And so I think it's hard, but it's important to say, yeah, there's some things that I wish your dad was doing differently. I wish he got to see what an awesome son you are like I get to see. And your dad is really charming and love and funny and he can be really engaging and he's got some good qualities too. And by lifting up the good parts of your ex-husband, you're lifting up your son. And that's really hard because it's easy to just burn the whole guy to the ground, but you're burning your son to the ground too when that happens. No, and I think it's trying to find those few good qualities and pointing them out and saying, he has a really good work ethic and he passed that on to you and I see that in you.

And so you have that really positive thing from your dad. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And the things that you might see in yourself that you don't like that are like myself or your dad that you take on simply because it's what you are modeled, you're capable of changing those things too. Oh, dude. You're not a prisoner to what you've been modeled and who your parents are. So good.

You're in a season of discomfort. And so I almost hesitate to tell you this, but you're doing it exactly right. Thank you. You're doing exactly right. You're making the best of a very messy situation. And I would, if I'm in your seat, like the best I can tell you is if I'm sitting in your seat

and my wife had left me and it's five years later and she's remarried and moved on with her life and suddenly she doesn't want anything to do with the kids, I would open my hands up and not try to direct her behaviors. I would try to use that extra energy and love my kids. I would use that extra energy and love myself enough to make sure I'm well, that I'm taking care of business, that I've got new relationships. You can't take away your kids' questions about what they did to divide up the home. You can't take away your kids' questions about why their dad doesn't want to spend time with them. That doesn't make any sense to them. You can assure them there's not a way they can act their way into their dad's heart. That right now he's making some different decisions and it is it is it stinks

But they're lovely and they're loved and they're good kids I would have your kids write your dad their dad letters maybe make that a weekly exercise And what that will do for your kids is it helps them begin to laser in on what they miss it really helps them come up with some poignant questions and it keeps the thoughts and feelings and emotions from Overwhelming a 13 or 18 or 16 year old mind and body and so every week Dad won't talk to him. Dad doesn't want to visit with him. Cool.

We're going to write dad a letter and then they're going to give them to you. And you may not send those letters. You may just hang on to them because this is going to be an exercise for the home. It's going to be an exercise. Maybe they read them out loud to you and they will be heartbreaking or maybe they're super fun or maybe they're a mixture of both, but it gives your kids an outlet. It gives their bodies the opportunity to speak to their dad when their dad just won't speak to them. So that's just an idea. Maybe it's a once a month thing. It will be a painful exercise, but it's an exercise I think over time will really benefit. And I'll just say this. I know this goes without saying,

but parents, if you get divorced, you get divorced. Parents do, adults do adult things. Show up for your kids. Show up for your kids. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our

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All right, we're back. Let's go to Andrew in Dayton, Ohio. What's up, Andrew? Hey, what's going on, Dr. John? How are you, sir? Partying, my brother. What's up?

Oh, here's... I'm just going to cut to it. How do I grieve? Well, that's a, that's an open-ended broad question. What do you want to grieve, man? Yeah, everything. Um, let's, uh, let's go back. Um, year ago, my mom got sick and, uh, she went in the hospital about six days later. My sister, my baby sister got sick. What'd they get sick with? COVID. Okay. And, um, my mom was in the hospital 42 days.

My sister, 35, and my sister passed first. Oh, geez. It'll be a year coming up this week. And then my sister had special needs, so she was on a respirator and all the machines that they hook her up to. And basically, the doctor wouldn't pull her off the machine that wasn't doing anything but keeping her heartbeat until we told our mom and asked her permission to take her off the machine, even though my mom was incapacitated. And so we told her because, you know, it was the right thing to do. And six days later, my mom passed.

And I know it was related to finding out that she'd lost a child. No doubt in my mind. And so coming up on a year, and I just, I don't know that I've grieved it at all. I've been sad. I've cried more times than I could possibly count. I've lost hours of sleep every night. It's created all sorts of other health problems, which is telling me I'm not doing something right.

No, it's not. It's not. Hey, it's not. It's not. Andrew, I think you have grieved it. You are grieving it. This is what grief is. It's crying at the weirdest moments.

It's waking up in the middle of the night. It's throwing up. It's feeling sick. It's looking at like if you have like a whoop strap, it's looking at it and like you're at 25% recovery for four months. It's like your body shuts itself off because it can't. It's so overwhelming. This is grief, man. And it's awful.

But then how do I work through it? Because it's not something... I mean, I've lost people before. Hey, bro, not your mom hey dude bro not your mom man not your mom not your special needs sister that you've been defending since the day she was born like you had a purpose and your purpose was your sister

and in 30 days it went away and you've got your mom, dude. That's a whole other level. That's not like losing a friend or losing a buddy or losing a grandparent. That's your mother. I've sat with people who are 63 years old who lose their 80-something-year-old parents, and they just unspool because it's their mom.

It's their dad. You know what I mean? This is different, and you're coming up on an anniversary moment. And for whatever reason, I don't know the physiology of it or the biology of it, but I know that anniversary markers, our bodies tend to just ramp it up. They just turn the heat up on us

and things get a little bit sharper, a little bit lower, a little bit darker. And in your case, we're ending, we're heading off into the winter season, so things are getting grayer and colder, and it just all works together to, say, screw the world, right? Yeah. And can I be honest?

For those listening, I don't want to hear any of your political nonsense. I got a friend who's hurting here. But when you lose your mom and your sister, and then a politician gets up and says this never counted this wasn't ever real or it's all over now yeah you're still holding you know you can look over and see your sister's jacket hanging on the hook or when your buddies roll their eyes and the next politician gets up and it's like i'm running for office and say this stupid.

And it's like, well, I lost my mom and I lost my sister. You know what I mean? So there's an extra, I'm hearing across the country, especially with COVID losses, there's an extra dose of hurt on top of it, if that makes sense. Yeah. Because it's because my mom, it's the story of my mom. It's the story of my sister. And suddenly it's turned into a caricature or a drama or a political move. It's my mom, right? And so there's all sorts of I've seen of grief. When your mom passed away and your sister passed away, they cast a long shadow over you.

And you're sitting in that shadow and you can see it laid out as though you're standing in the shadow of a large tree. That shadow length and size will always be that big. You lost your mom. What you can't see now is that you will continue to grow. And in one year, five years, 10 years, 15 years, you will be so far out beyond that shadow. The shadow is still the same size, but you will have developed and grown and created a new life. There will be seasons when you find yourself knocked down, sitting up against that tree in that shadow, and it cast over you again. And that might be on the five-year anniversary or the 10-year anniversary. You hear a song or you see a special needs kid that reminds you of

your little sister, and your body just yanks you back into it. It's cool, man. It's cool. But what you can't see on this side of it is your growth. I would tell you not to fight it right now, man. You're a year in. I would spend – let me just say what I would do if I was you. Is that a fair way to approach this? Absolutely. I would sit down and write mom a letter, and I would sit down and write sister a letter. And if you're really brave, I would find some way to read those letters too,

whether if you have a sister or a sibling or you're married or something like that, I would read that out loud. And in that letter, there's usually three parts. One of them is how pissed off I am that you left me, how mad I am that you're gone, whether that's mad at them, at god mad at the doctors mad at whoever another one is i'm just so sad i miss you here's what it feels like now that you're gone

and then the third part of that letter is here's what you've missed i got a new job i got a promotion i'm letting my hair grow long i I've gained 48 pounds, right? Whatever, like the Astros are going to win the world series again, right? That's me casting. Oh, I hope not. I hope not. Right. So it's, it's, here's what you've missed. And here's, here's why that's important. When we transition to here's what you've missed, we are slowly teaching our bodies and our minds that it's happened. There's a period at the end of the sentence And life is continuing to move

And over time you write letters about what you've missed how much I miss you And those letters will get more and more infrequent And they'll get um shorter And you'll find yourself laughing again And then you're going to find yourself Have you already done this where you find yourself just laughing again. And then you're going to find yourself, have you already done this? Where you find yourself just laughing your butt off, dude. Like you've something so funny

and it's usually super profane. Like you wouldn't say it in front of your mom, but you're laughing and then you feel guilty for having joy for laughing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Notice when you feel guilty laughing. Notice when you feel guilty after sex.

Notice when you feel guilty about some of these pleasurable moments in life that suddenly you think, wait a minute, I shouldn't be having pleasure because I'm still, because they died, right? And don't beat yourself up over it, but just notice it and then exhale and say, no, I'm allowed to smile. My mom would want me to be having a good time. My sister would want me to smile. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I struggle with the different roles I have to carry right now. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a husband. Okay. I'm a dad. Okay. Um, I've got, uh, two other biological sisters and an adopted special needs sister. Okay. And then I've got my dad.

And then my mom's mom is still alive. So I feel the burden of responsibility to help her because that was mom's role. And it's, I mean, it's just challenging. It's overwhelming sometimes. I want to flip the whole thing over, okay? Okay. You can only do that type of heavy lifting if Andrew comes first. If Andrew's physical health comes first, you're sleeping and you're eating right,

you're moving your body, you're exercising a couple times a week, you have some friends that you're talking to, you get buddies together once a week and you'll go to throw darts or you go, I don't know, build something, play guitar, whatever it is, but you get a group together. Only then you go to church, you go back, you get reconnected with the faith community, whatever that looks like for you, only then are you reinforced enough to then be the dad that your kids need. And by the way, hopefully you've told your kids how sad you are. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Good. Don't rob them of this moment of watching. Here's what a man who loves his daughter feels and is going through. Don't take that from them. Okay. Be honest with

them. Otherwise they're going to feel your angst and they're going to feel your distance and they're going to blame themselves for it. Give, give that gift to them to let them watch. I tell them, I tell them all the time. Um, I, I get, I mean, my kids are 12 and 10. Perfect. And so they're, they're at that age of understanding and all of the things that they have to process through. We tried to protect them when we were in the hospital, when they were in the hospital. I was driving an hour every day to go see them and trying to keep them from all of the information. And we learned afterwards that that was probably not the best way to do that. Sure. So here we are. So you're doing a good job of communicating now, right?

Yeah, we're on it now. We learned the hard way. Good, good, good, good, good. And so, can I say something hard, man? Please. I'll say something good and then i'll say something hard okay whenever we lose somebody that we love especially they were hurting as badly as your sister and your mom were hurting um the ventilator passing is is brutal you saw it firsthand right yeah yeah one of my jobs when i did crisis response was if somebody had like let's say they'd lost a kid say a kid had died by suicide and mom was coming home and she was coming to the house. My job was actually to meet

mom in the foyer of that home or in the front yard and not let mom come back and see the kid. And here's why, because here was my standard line that I always gave. And it wasn't a line, it was the truth. You don't want this to be the last picture of your son or daughter in your mind. You want that last picture, the time you all hugged when he left your house, that time at Thanksgiving when you were throwing marshmallows at each other. You don't want this last picture because it freeze frames in your mind. And here's what we miss. They're not hurting

anymore. Okay. The last time you saw your sister, she was in hell. The last time you saw your mom, you watched her dissolve, like just dissipate in front of you and listen, brother, they're not hurting anymore. Okay. Yeah. And it's making peace with, oh yeah, they're finally free. They are free, free, free. And it's sitting in that for a minute because right now your body is still trying to make sure everything's okay with them on the ventilator. They're not there anymore. Here's the hard thing. My brother, they're gone. And no amount of work or trying to cobble together more things to throw on your shoulders is going to make their life any more okay. They're gone.

Yeah. And it's being able to open your hands up and for the first time in a year, drop your shoulders down. Tell your sisters, I need some help. Tell your dad, how are you, man? I can help you, but I can't carry you. See the difference there? I do. Okay.

Yeah. I have my good days. Of course you do. Bro, you're not broken. Hey, you are not broken. You're not malfunctioning. You're a son who loved his mom, and you're a dope brother who loved his sister. That's what you are.

And that means it hurts. So how do I handle, so when these moments hit, and being perfectly honest, you're the first person I've talked to in a year outside of close friends. Okay. So I feel like I need more help than what I'm wrestling with the regret, the missed Thanksgiving, the time I blew mom off to go hang with my buddies. Whatever the story may be, those moments come up and then they're just crushing sometimes. That's right. And so there's two ways to move forward from this. Number one is when those thoughts pop into your mind,

understand you have a choice. You have a choice to meditate on that lightning bolt that pops in. Remember that time you blew mom off for a text message and literally say out loud, not doing that, not doing it at your brain, trying to meditate on the things on the negativity so that it can prevent hurt in the future. And it doesn't prevent hurt in the future.

It's just your brain trying to do the best it can. Cause it's got a very primitive operating system on it that says, look, bear run from bear. Watch out for bears. Right. Yeah. And so those lightning bolts pop into your mind when you're walking down the street. And you remember that time you snapped at your special needs sister because she was driving you crazy.

And you go, nope. And here's the key. Here's the second key. You have an immediate thought to replace that with. A time you and your little sister laughed so hard you thought you were going to both vomit on each other. That time you and your mom got into a donut eating contest and you saw that nine-year-old girl come out of her in a weird way or the time your mom cussed at you and it just slipped out and you laughed, right? Let's go to that. And here's what will happen in short order. If you will do that work, because you weren't a bad son, you're a human being.

If you will do that work in a shorter amount of time than you think, your body will change the default setting to every time you think of them, they will be filled with light and joy, not, oh my God, they just died. Okay. It is saying, nope, not doing it. I'm not going to meditate on the negative. I remember that time mom fill in the blank, did something hilarious or I'm calling dad. I called dad, see how he's doing. And here's the other big boy thing you got to do. You got to sit down with your wife in the next 48 hours. Okay. And tell her, I have not been honest with you for a year. I've tried to be tough. I've tried to carry all this. I felt a ton of responsibility and I'm heartbroken because

I miss my sister. And I'm heartbroken because I miss my mom. And there's going to be moments in the next six months while I'm healing that I'm not going to be able to carry it all. And I'm going to ask you, I may lean over and say, hey, I need some help today. And that would be one of the greatest gifts you give your wife. Because she's been feeling insane and helpless sitting on her own hands the last year. And finally, her husband's going to say,

I'm not Superman. I'm calling reality as it is. Can I get some help? And she's going to say, God, yes, I'm ready calling reality as it is. Can I get some help? And she's going to say, God, yes, I'm ready for you. Is that fair? That's absolutely fair. Cause I think she would, she's been the one telling me to get some help. That's right. Cause she, here's why she feels you not sleeping and she feels you sitting at the kitchen table, four feet from, I mean, four inches from her and 4,000 miles away from her. She feels it. And she doesn't know how to bridge that gap.

And so she's asking you to walk across it. And if you sat down and had that moment of vulnerability tonight, cancel whatever plans you got tonight and take her out to dinner and just say, I haven't been honest with you. I've been trying to carry all this myself and I'm sorry. I need you to pick up some slack for a season. Oh my gosh, what a gift that would be for your home, my brother. What a gift.

I'll say it one more time. You're not broken, man. You're just in it. Do sit down and write your mom that letter. Do sit down and write your sister that letter. Read it to your wife if you can. Read it to your sisters if you can. Have them write letters and y'all can get together

for the one year anniversary of their passing and have another celebration slash day of mourning. Let your kids hear those letters. Bring people into this and you will begin to grow and stand beyond this shadow. That's my promise, my brother. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future. You've been through it. And now we're going to ask ourselves, what do we do next? And I got you. Thanks for calling, my brother. We'll be right back. All right. We're going out to Cassie in Cambridge, where they got equations on the walls at the bars. What's up, Cassie? Hi, Dr. John. Are you an MIT kid or a Harvard kid? A Harvard kid? No, none of those. I wish I was, but no. I'm not. Hey, I'm not either.

I'm a state school guy. That's what I'm talking about. Hey, what's up, Cassie? All right. So I guess my question here is, it sounds weird, but I have, have you ever, have you ever heard this show? Oh yeah, I have. Yeah. It's all, I promise whatever you're about to say, you're not the weird one. So bring it on. Okay.

Um, so I, I have this fear of going, basically going to the doctors. Um, and it's like super strange, but I will like, I'll cancel appointments and I'll miss appointments because of it. And I don't know, like, I don't know if this is something, is there something I can do before it? Or if I need to deal with something, um, or if it's just normal, I guess. Why are you scared to go to the doctor? Why does your body tell you we don't need to go there? Well, I guess I had a bad, like pretty bad experiences in the past. Tell me about them. Yeah. So I was in elementary school and I think part of it is because I... Just tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me.

Okay. When I was in elementary school, I struggled with food and just stuff like that, and I ended up being hospitalized. Cassie. Cassie. Yes. Say it all the way. Well, I was hospitalized and then- For what? For what? For what?

This is what I, like, I can't, I can talk about it, but I can't name it. So I, I don't know. Okay. So you had a challenge with food. Did you really struggle with anorexia or bulimia? Yeah. One of those. Yeah.

Okay. Why can't you say that? I don't know. Will you say it right now? Maybe. Go for it. I struggled with some eating issues. Okay.

And it led to me being hospitalized for a couple of weeks. And then I was thrown into a, basically a psych ward, but, um, I just had like a really, a rough experience in there. Um, it was a teenage unit and I was 12 at the time. And I was a goody two-shoes when I was younger. So I just saw like so many different things in there. And it was a really, I guess, a really scary, scary experience. What was, thank you for saying that out loud, by the way. I know it was hard. Okay.

Why were you a goody two-shoe? I'm going to ask that in a hard, direct way. Is that cool? Yeah. Often, goody two-shoes can be a trauma response. It's a way to keep the boogeyman away. It's a way to keep a scary uncle or a mom and dad from being on your case, from messing with you. If you just do everything perfect and toe the line and stay out of the way.

I always did. I did well in school. I just wanted. Of course you did. I like to do well yeah what were the roots in disordered eating what was that a response to I wish

I wish I knew that cause I I don't know I felt like I was so young that it doesn't make sense to me. thought. We used to prescribe it all to traumas and anxiety response and that there is some significant literature that suggests that can be highly genetic, that there's really not a lot of environmental factors, but I don't know enough about it. Here's what's important now. Are you healed now? Do you have a good relationship with food now? I would say, yeah, for the most part, I feel good. Good. Do you still struggle from anorexia or bulimia?

Not really. Only one time they're tough, but no, not really. Okay. Times have been tough for everybody recently, Cassie. Yeah. So why did you need to go to the doctor for it's um it's kind of a regular a regular checkup or follow-up um i had a major like health scare earlier this year and it wasn't i don't um it wasn't related well i don't know if it was or wasn't related. They say it wasn't, but I always feel super guilty that I caused the issue.

What's the issue? So basically, I had a growth in my body that required surgery. But I guess this is kind of my fault because I waited until the growth became massive until I went to the doctors um to get it checked out I don't you and I could spend some time together I know but you don't like Cassie and I don't like that you don't like Cassie Because I like Cassie I think I like her

You Are pleasant with her But you think she does a lot of stuff wrong I think she could be better in some ways Yeah Wanting to improve On things is one thing I think she could be better in some ways, yeah. Wanting to improve on things is one thing. Be better is a totally different proposition.

Is that fair? Yeah, yeah. So here's like the last couple of times or there's been a couple of times in your life that you've gone to the doctor. One of them has ended in a surgery that you have shame over. Another time ended up in a hospitalization and you probably heard it from your parents about how expensive it was and how they had one of them had to quit their job and they had to, right? It caused a major upheaval in your home that somehow was transferred onto you. This is your fault. Not, we're your parents and we love you and it's our job to take care of you to the ends of the earth. That's what we signed up for when we had you.

But if you, you're fine, just eat or just like, right? Those kind of things. And here you are now and you need to go to the doctor. And your body's put some GPS pins in the doctor's offices as though they are the problem. And I'd love to reframe that and say, no, you had some scary experiences as a kid and it probably wasn't a good idea for you thought I wasn't okay, but whoa, after spending two nights in a psych ward, they're like, I'm fine. Right. I don't have that. Um, is, I mean, all but like a handful had that experience. And I can only imagine how terrifying that was for a 12 year old right the phobia is real this fear is real and there is one way to heal from it and it's to go right through it okay and i know that's the worst possible answer you can get

here's um what i have found in my life um Is you have to teach your body that it's okay to go now it wasn't then it's okay now That's what healing from trauma is I can walk in and I can feel my heart rate getting up I can feel my hands. I can feel myself picking up my phone to cancel and i'm not going to i'm gonna feel it And what we're going to do over the course of a few visits is we're going to retrain our body that doctors are trustworthy and they're okay. And that if I do have to have surgery, thank goodness there's a group of people who's dedicated their lives to keeping people like me safe. Right? It's a total reframe from, oh God, if I go there, they're going to cut another big lump of my body out of me. It's, man, thank goodness they are keeping me safe. And I'm going to feel it and I'm going to feel it and I'm going to feel it. And here's the other

thing. Disordered eating has a way of isolating us, creating a space between us and relationships and us and the rest of the world. Fair? Yeah, that's true. And I've struggled with disordered eating almost my entire life. Okay? And I only recently started talking about that publicly. It's been a mess.

Okay? I tell you that to tell you I can be in a crowded room completely by myself because I am so preoccupied with judging how I look and how I'm standing and how I'm moving. Right? Yeah. Okay. The only way through that is to open up to other people.

And now I come out of my room and I look at my wife and say, is this shirt okay to wear? And she says, yes. And I let, I trust her more than my feelings. And I'm learning, I'm in the process right now in my forties of learning how to trust and how to feel what a shirt feels like that fits. It doesn't feel awkward that, you know what I mean? That's where you are. And we're going to practice, practice relationships. So I have found walking through anxiety, walking through phobias, walking through those moments, I can only do it with somebody else with me by my side. Okay. And so it's making an appointment to go to the doctor and calling a friend and saying,

I need you to come here and set up an appointment for me. Or I need you to call and make an appointment for me on the first two or three while I'm learning. And that way I can't call and cancel them. Only you can. And then I need you to come pick me up because I'm not going to get in the car. That's actually a good idea. Here's what we're doing.

We're owning reality. And reality is right now, I can't stop eating sugar. I'm just throwing that out there. So I'm going to take all the sugar out of my house. I can't right now. And you can, but it feels like you can't. I can't make a good choice when it comes to seeing a doctor because every time I make an appointment, my whole body freezes on me and tenses up because the last few times I've gone, it's been a disaster both financially and physically So, hey

I need you to make this appointment for me or do it with me And then I need you to drive me. Would you come pick me up? Would you walk alongside me during this during this time? Would you be in the in the room with me? Would you sit in there with me? While the doctor gives me the news um I'd really appreciate that. And then our bodies are going to see that we are not alone. Our bodies are going to see that that doctor's got our best

interest at heart. Our body's going to see that we're more well after we visit our doctor than before. And then it's going to learn over time, oh, Cassie's driving now. Cassie's in control. Doctors aren't the end of the world. I had a bad experience, a real bad experience once. Then they saved my life the next time. They're for me, not against me. And we're just teaching our body that. You're brave, brave young woman. I would also recommend find a local counselor in your area and let them know.

I really struggle with some historical trauma here. I don't know where it's from. I don't know why. Still struggle with disorder eating every once in a while. When things get stressed and things are always stressed. And I want some practical tips on breathing through and box breathing and dropping my shoulders when I've got to do hard things like make doctor's appointments and actually show up, make counseling appointments and actually show up. Because we can't do life by ourself, Cassie. We can't.

Got to have other people, professionals and friends. Moms and dads and romantic partners. We need everybody. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious

Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back as we wrap up today's show. Hey, don't forget the brand new questions for humans cards are out. Get online and go get those.

Save your holiday season. Spark some romance. Reconnect with your kids or your adult parents, your aging parents. The tools are for you. Today's song of the day is a shout-out to all these Seattle callers. From one of the OGs, the Stone Temple Pilots.

This song's called the Interstate Love Song. It goes like this. Waiting on a Sunday afternoon for what I've read between the lines, your lies. Feeling like a hand in rusted chains. So do you laugh at those who cry? Reply. Leaving on a southern train only yesterday, you lied. Promises of what I seem to be only watch the time go by. All of these things you said to me you lied goodbye goodbye