The Dr. John Delony Show - Can Our Marriage Survive Cheating?

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A couple wondering if there’s still hope for their marriage despite separation and infidelity - A man unable to watch the news without becoming anxious - A new mom uncomfortable with visiting her in-laws’ filthy home Lyrics of the Day: "Man In The Mirror" - Michael Jackson  Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney show. Is there anybody that's going to drop any sort of bombshells today? Not from my end. Not from my end either. Oh, Mary, yes you are. You have to own that what you had together is over. Okay? Let's put a period at the end of it.

What is going on everybody? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show. So glad that you're with us. Listen, if you want to be on the greatest mental health and marriage and parenting podcast ever, and by the way, we talk about more than marriage and parenting, kind of whatever's going on in your life. Exercise, working out, school systems, whatever, work, whatever you got. I'm here for you, man. I'm here and I'm grateful to the millions of people that download this podcast every month.

And to those of you who are sharing with your friends, I'm just so grateful. If you want to be on the show, shoot me an email at johndeloney.com slash ask. That's J-O-H-N-D-E-L-O-N-Y.com slash ask, A-S-K. Fill out the little form and it goes right to Kelly and Jenna. Kelly will just hit delete automatically just because that's how she rolls and Jenna will read it and then she will curl up in a ball and weep for a while and then she'll call you back or you can go um to 1-844-693-3291 and give us a buzz and be on the show hey we uh had a session last yesterday Kelly me Jenna going through the feedback of the show and I was stunned I

thought there'd be like seven people and they'd be all mad I was stunned by how many people wrote in with your feedback. Here's some ideas after the show here's some thoughts we have Um, and so great. I'm so grateful for it. Um Yeah, I just want to say thank you and you'll see some of those things implemented as we move forward Whether it was show ideas show topics or what if? What if you just toned it down at the beginning of the show and didn't yell and scream at everybody in the community? And here's what's so strange. I know this. I'm not like a loud yeller guy. Anybody who hangs out with me knows I'm pretty chill. I can be intense, but pretty chill. I don't know why I just feel the need to yell every time the

show music comes on. It's like, oh, everybody, so that guy's done. We're done with that. We're just going to have regular conversation time and we'll still have fun. And probably the horse noises will return. All right. So in this first call, Jenna is, this is a couple, right?

Yes. They're still married. Yes, but they're separated. Yes. Okay. Married, but separated.

And so we're going to talk to them both. And this is my favorite because usually we just get to talk to one and just hear one side of the story. And today we get both. All right. So let's go out to James in Los Angeles. James, you there? Yeah. How you doing, John?

I'm a big fan of your show. I was calm, but now that I hear the show, I'm kind of a little nervous. It's good. All right. Hey, I don't know what I'm doing either, man. So we're all just going to figure this one out. So I'm going to bring on Mary right now. Mary, are you there?

I'm here. All right. So James and Mary, are you all in the same house? Yes. I'm in separate rooms. Okay. So before we get going, this is a question I always ask people when I'm sitting down in this situation. Everybody's safe. Everybody good.

Everybody able to be honest. Yes. Okay. And before we go one step further, is there anybody that's going to drop any sort of bombshells today? Not from my end. Not from my end either.

Oh, Mary, yes you are. Okay. Listen Okay listen Mary before you do You gotta say hey remember when I said I wasn't going to I'm going to right now okay cool No No there's no bombs Yes there is I can tell Okay awesome alright so James you reached out

Y'all have been separated For a year and a half tell me the story Um From the beginning right Um jump into the middle Okay for a year and a half. Tell me the story. From the beginning, right? Jump into the middle. Okay. I was not a loving husband.

I was like, I've been listening to your show for years, so this helped me tremendously. I was like those type of people that you explained one time that I could be sitting in the couch and my kids and my wife could feel the energy that I'm just on top of them. So it was that type of environment. Never physical, never like that. But I stopped doing the cute things with her.

I wasn't, when she would try to like make love to me, I was always not confident in myself, so I would be neglect. Did you ever cheat on her? Yes, and I barely told her last week after watching your show. I got with my pastor because I don't have friendships or nothing, and I'm working on that. And I got help, and he actually listened

to the show, and I told him, I was like, I'm all in. He's like, well, if you're all in, you have to get all the secrets out there, and you got to tell her. So I was trying to I'm all in. He's like, well, if you're all in, you have to get all the secrets out there and you got to tell her. So I was trying to do it while there was a third party, but a couple of days before we're going to meet up with that pastor to me, tell her, she asked me, because we're hanging out

and since we have kids, we're trying to get a surprise, a birthday gift for my baby. She asked me and I had to prepare for that. And I told the pastor, I was like, Hey, if she asked me before, I don't want to lie to her. What do I do? He's like, you gotta be honest. And then whatever she asked you to be honest. So I did a cheat on her once years ago, like maybe like 2019 around that time. And it's been extremely hard for me because it's hard for me to open up. I don't know. I I didn't have the tools, but listening to you, I started reaching out to community pastors.

I barely started going to therapy and everything, so it's been helping me a lot. And one of your shows said, if you don't open up right now, you're going to open up how you really feel. You're going to live with a life full of regret. So I was like, I don't want to lose my wife. I want to open up. And actually, where we split, so when I had my baby, I seen some messages on his phone that she took pictures of, of conversations of people she was speaking to. And then one of them that she actually slept with a guy while we're separating.

So that thing hit me hard. But in my mind, I was already ready to tell her. So I'm like, oh, my God, I'm really losing my wife. So that even lit a fire behind me to actually be like, I got to open up regardless how hard it is. So here's what I want to say, brother. Let's put the infidelity aside. Let's put all the other stuff aside. Okay.

I want to say you are in very rare air. Okay? Air? Air. A-I-R. You're in very rare air. And if you were right here,

I would get up from where I'm at, I'd pull these dumb headphones out of my ears, and I'd give you a hug. Okay? I'm proud of you. You mean you want to cry? Well, no, no, no, no. Here's why.

Here's why. I don't want to excuse what you did. We got to get through that stuff, okay? And we haven't heard Mary's side. But what I do hear is a desperate man who has done what I think is a really hard thing. What's your ethnic background?

I'm Mexican. I'm Mexican. I'm Mexican. Okay. You're staring down generations. You're staring into the future and you're saying,

I want a different kind of man in the mirror. I want my kids to experience a different kind of man. I want my wife to experience

a different kind of man and I want things to be different. That's a hard, hard path to take. And so I want to tell you, I'm proud of you. That's hard. Thank you. Cool? Cool. I really appreciate it. That's really what I'm trying to

No, that's really what I'm all in for. Okay. Good for you, man. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough. And you can be an example to millions of men listening to this thing right now. Okay. All right. So Mary tough. It's tough. It's tough. And you're, you can be an example to millions of men. Listen to this thing right now. Okay. All right.

So Mary, tell me your side. Um, I'm just, I'm just gonna say, uh, it'd be so great if you were like everything he just said is full of crap. Here's what really happened. That'd be awesome. But, but go ahead. So I guess a little backstory is that we were a blended family. So I came a little backstory is that we were a blended family. So I came with kids.

He has boys and we have together one little one, which is six years old. How many in total? So five altogether. Okay. Are you still in contact with their dad? No. So I was, I'm a single mom to my first two, my oldest. Okay. Um, so I mean, there was obviously, I'm not going to say everything was bad.

Um, but a lot of the things, you know, his attitude, like the way he was towards us, it was just, you know, it made the whole relationship a little hard. Um, can we say, can we say, can we say it made the whole thing real hard? Yeah. Okay. Let's don't minimize it. Okay was hard it's tough yeah it was hard um you were you were a single mom with now five kids and kind of a gigantic toddler with an attitude problem right and i had yes and i had come from a domestic violence relationship with my first relationship so um when i got pregnant right away right went into the relationship with james and i was five months pregnant when my mom passed away she got killed by a drunk driver so apart from my relationship that was another big thing that

took a toll on me um and then so i I left because obviously his attitude, the way it was going, and then, you know, messages here and there that I found of him talking to other women, you know, and things I would say, please don't do this, please don't do that. And he just, he didn't care. So I split from him. And like you said, it's been a year and a half. And I feel like I'm finally at a place where I'm at peace. Like, I guess, pain in my heart. Pain and clarity because now I can look back and say, now it makes sense. You weren't crazy. Right.

That was a big one because I really thought the whole relationship. I was like, what am I doing wrong? Why? Maybe I am crazy because he would throw those comments. You're crazy. You're crazy. What are you talking about? And now it's like, okay, it makes sense.

And that's kind of where I'm at right now and so is this phone call are y'all are you interested in getting back together too or are you are you you're obviously going to be in a relationship with james for a long time because you'll have a kid together. Are you interested in just having a good grown-up adult friendship with somebody that you share a child with, but you want to move on with your life? Because I hear from James. I mean, James, you said, I don't want to lose my wife. And I realize, oh man, she is seeking out physical and emotional connection with other men.

Can I add on to that, please? Yeah, of course, of course. seeking out physical and emotional connection with other men. Can I add on to that, please? Yeah, of course, of course. When we first met, I met her at my job at a warehouse. So to me, it was like love at first sight, like physically at least, you know? And then when I met her, I was like, oh my God, she's a Christian. I've always wanted a Christian woman. Anyways, so after meeting her, the guy that introduced us, I end up hearing rumors that she slept with him. So I end up confronting her.

I found this out after, like, everybody found out that she was pregnant. I confessed to her. She's like, yeah, like a month or two before. So that. And then there was another guy that always chased after her. And she confessed that she slept with him, too. And then at church, she confessed. I was like, is there anything else?

And she confessed one more person. So, like, coming in, I was already feeling like that. So, I feel like I'm in the same boat right now since I've seen those messages because I'm like, I'm starting the same way as we started. Like, she came with sleeping with men

right before. So, it's like... Hold on. I don't think it's fair to hold her accountable for things that she did before y'all were together. Okay. I didn't mean to do that. Here's all I'm saying. You knew those things and you opted in. True. And you knew those things and you opted in and then y'all had a baby together.

Then y'all got married, right? And so I also think, and you came in admittedly feeling less than. You already walked in the front door carrying her across the threshold comparing yourself to at least those three guys. Okay? For sure. So it's important that you own both of it. I opted into this deal, so I'm not going to opt in and then just sit there and complain about what I opted in for. Okay?

Sure. And you own your side, which is, man man i instantly felt comparison less than like whoa like i i and most men feel that and most men spend their lives puffing their chest out swinging um running from stuff numbing out or blaming people and so for you to look in the mirror and say no no i gotta own that i felt less than. That's a big, huge step. Okay? Okay. Is that fair?

Yes. Thank you for that. And then this comes. So Mary, where are you? Are you interested in getting back with James? To be honest, not at the moment. Okay. I don't want to say, okay,

because to be honest, this in December, I filed for divorce. Okay. And like, I would say want to say, okay, because to be honest, this in December, I filed for divorce. Okay. And like, I would say a month after, almost two was when he found the messages and he came to me, you know, saying, hey, let's work this out, you know, and I was already, you know, out. And now I'm kind of like, I feel like I could eventually maybe give this another try, but I don't want to just jump back in and say, yeah, I'm all in. I think for him, it's easier to say I'm all in because he was the one that messed up. You know, um, I, I feel like I, like I, like I told him, I'm in a really good place right now. And I said, I need,

if there is any ever, ever a chance again, I said, I need you to work on yourself because I know a lot of the things he did to me, you know, a lot of his attitude and everything. I know it comes from like trauma that he's had in his childhood or things in his past. And I told him, I need you to work on yourself because I'm doing the same. And I know I'm not perfect. Obviously I'm actually seeking therapy right now because I've been through so many things and it's like, we can't, you know, we both can't come to try and build a healthy home, happy home if we're not healed ourselves, you know? Absolutely.

Can I have two of the two? Of course you can. Since I've been listening to your show, I'm really like every day for a year, I've been forcing myself. I grew up a single child since I was 12. I have no memories sitting down at a kitchen table with my family. The same parents, one brother told me like 11 years apart, no memories at all. I got raised with babysitters or left home alone, so I always felt like in need of, like, love. Now it's not as bad, but I've been seeking health therapy since a year or two.

Therapy barely, maybe, like, two weeks ago, but, like, actually, like, getting in community with pastors and he's a counselor and all that for years. So I've been, like, vetting myself as a person. I need a lot of work, obviously. But that's my question too for you. She's at her best I've ever seen and I'm happy because she's done a great job. And to me, I want my family back. So it's like if she does give me a try, I want to bring, I want to lift her up. I want to be something, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. I got you. All right. So I'm going to talk to you two, but I'm also going to use this as an opportunity to talk to a broader audience. The last number I heard was 50%. 50% of couples coming into some sort of marriage counseling are dealing with infidelity. Okay.

And so I tell you all that to not make it an excuse, but to let you know that y'all aren't by yourself in this deal. Okay. And it's very common for one person to be out. I'm done. Or I like the healing that's happening in my life right now. And let me give you some different language. Maybe for the first time, Mary, in a long time, you feel safe. Your body feels at peace, right?

Like your shoulders drop. When you walk into your apartment or you're into your house, you're not worried about whether you're going to get hit. You're not worried about whether there's going to be a radioactive guy on the couch. You're going to get bombarded with five different kids. So your body feels safe. And James, for the first time in a long time, you're making connections that probably men in your, in your family line have never made,

which is, for sure. I have a body that has starved for connection. The worst tort, the way to torture James is to withhold love because that happened your whole life. Right. Perfectly said. And so that's a, that's a, is to withhold love because that happened your whole life, right? It perfectly says.

And so you can see how really quick we can get into a pretty unhealthy dance where you are almost demanding connection, which then in and of itself isn't connection. And Mary has had people force connection on her for a long time. And so her body pulls away, which then makes the alarms in your body get louder and you get closer and get more radioactive. And she almost will connect with you out of defense, right?

So here's what we have to do. You have to own that what you had together is over now. Okay? Let's put a period at the end of it. James, you're going to drive yourself mad trying to get back quote unquote

what you had. You're right. I'm driving myself crazy. Yeah. You're driving yourself crazy. And Mary doesn't want what she had. She likes her life now.

She's got peace finally. Okay? And so what we want to do and by the way this is going to be helpful for you too whether you just stay really good friends who are great co-parents with your kids and your kids by the way deserve that okay yeah um what you have to work on moving forward is we've got to create something completely new something where that probably neither of you saw in your parents' lives,

that you probably y'all have never experienced together, which means we're going to have to give each other a lot of grace. We're going to have to get rid of the victim mentality and the perpetrator mentality. We're both here. Okay. Right. We're both together. And now what we're going to do is here's where the healing is going to begin. You both know what you're capable of. You both know that you can lie to each other, that you can hide from each other, that you can tell each other. Y'all both know that. You both know you can keep deep secrets from one another.

Right. Yes. You both know that you can look each other and say, I'm in forever. Are you in forever? I'm in forever. And both of y'all weren't in forever, right? So here's the thing.

You both know that about each other. Many, many people never find the depths of what they're capable of. Y'all have. And what I would tell you, and this is going to sound crazy, that is a powerful place to start rebuilding something new from. you and this is going to sound crazy that is a powerful place to start rebuilt rebuilding something

new from that there's some deep intimacy shared there i know what i'm capable of and you know what you're capable of let's sit down at the table here okay and here's what this is gonna look like moving forward y'all gonna have to come up with a language a way that you talk to one another where mary is allowed to say, um, no, thank you. And James, you're going to have to feel that in your body, not as a rejection,

but as Mary standing up and letting her needs be heard. Cause your body's going to scream rejection, rejection, rejection, fight, run. And you're going to have to just simply say, no,

that's another adult that I love and care about who loves and cares about me who just doesn't want to go get coffee tonight. Yeah. That's, uh, I've been doing that like my best, uh, like not take it as rejection. Like you said, my body reacts to it. Good, good, good, good. Now, if you James do a bunch of stuff, if you change a bunch of things in your life to quote unquote, get her back, that is, that's a, that is jet fuel and it's rocket fuel inside of a missile. It runs out. It burns real hot and it goes real fast and it burns out real quick. You are going to have to look in the mirror and decide,

I'm worth being healthy and well for James. And my promise is when you are healthy and well for James, which means I'm going to keep talking to somebody that I trust who's got experience and training so I can get some of these lessons I didn't learn at home growing up. I'm going to get a group of guys that, not that we go run the town with, but that we hang out, we do fun stuff, we watch the fights, we take trips together, whatever we do, right? We do life together, we fix each other's cars together whatever it is and then you're going to present to mary a body that is not desperately trying to use her to feel safe which in turn is going to let her feel safe see what i'm saying you understand it's hard it's hard it is because i'm trying to i'm trying to see how um how to take away that oh i want to

do it for her as well but i I want to do it for you. I want to learn how to do it for me. Yes, do it for you. No one's ever told you this, man, but you're worth it. Thank you. I'm not saying that. Just play, Caden. And if I was here, I'd make it really awkward.

I'd put my hands on either side of your face, and I'd stare you directly in your eyes. Okay? I'd make it real, real weird, man. But listen, you're worth that. And Mary, you're worth being safe and you're worth feeling at peace. Yeah. Right. So this is the launching pad for what comes next. Mary, you're going to have to commit to being honest with him and not lobbing grenades. And can we be honest? You could throw some grenades, can't you? You know how to hurt James, right? Yeah, I do. And you've never done that before, have you?

Yes, you have. Yes, you have. And James, you're going to have to commit to getting well for you. Yes, sir. And then you're able to show up with Mary. Now, let's not walk away here with any rose-colored glasses. She said, right now, I'm not interested in a romantic relationship with James. James, I want you to hear that.

That's hard to hear. Okay? It is. You said the words, I don't want to lose my wife. She's telling you, I've stepped out. Okay? And so we're not trying to get back what was. We're trying to build something completely new

mary are are you do you feel unsafe going to coffee no i don't um we actually tried dinner a couple days ago and like i told him i said we can be friends i said let's let's try something new let's be friends let's get to know each other again and let's you know know if any this can go anywhere you know and james i think that's a really wise place starting with not hey how do we uh how do i get you how do i get you back how do we let's just instead of starting there i think we start with hey my name is james and uh i have a couple of kids and i have this woman that i'm madly in love with that I man one time I Screwed it up. You want to hear that story? And she could say hi. My name is mary and i've been through a lot and uh

I'd love to meet you. I'd love to get to know you a little bit better. Let's start there It's going to be hard to take the pressure off because y'all do have history together. You got life together, but let's start there Let's start there. Let's start communicating. Let's start being friends. Let's start connecting. I don't even say starting to woo or date, but I don't even know if Mary, if you're there yet. And if you're not, that's great.

You get to have that choice. And James, here's a hard, hard thing. Last hard thing. This one may be done. This one may be done. This one may be done. And let's get to the worst case scenario. If this is done, your relationship with Mary is over.

Your friendship's not, your co-parenting's not, but your dating relationship, your romantic relationship with Mary is over. You're still worth a peaceful life. You're still worth being well. And you're still worthy of being loved. Continue the journey you started, my brother.

I'm proud of you. Mary, continue honoring your body and your own safety. And, man, I can't wait to hear what happens next with you two.

So keep me in the loop. I'm grateful for y'all for calling in and sharing your story. And from this point forward, we never cheat again, right? Good. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist.

Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp.

BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Diloni to get 10% off your first month.

That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Diloni. All right, we are back. Let's go to Daniel in Cincinnati. What's up, Daniel? Good afternoon, sir. How are you? Outstanding, my brother. How are you?

Oh, not too bad. A little nervous. Don't be nervous. It's all good, man. What's up? Oh, well, I just want to apologize in advance. When I get nervous or anxious i stumble over my words and sometimes my train of thought deviate so hey i stumble i apologize in advance have you

ever listened to this show i have and it makes me feel a little better but i stumble over everything me on the show i stumble over everything not I'm anxious. I just can't speak properly. But hey, thank you for being brave and calling it anyway, even though this is a terrifying proposition for you. I'm grateful for you. So what's up, man? Okay. Well, a little bit of life has happened since I made the email to your booth crew. the original question was how I can handle anxiety around, uh, unlike, um, whenever I see news or things happening in the world, or just, I mean, kind of referencing how, what you've struggled with when you just think like, what's going to happen when it all falls apart, when it all hits the fan, how am I going to provide for my family? How what's going to happen when it all falls apart when it all hits the fan how am i going to provide for my family how am i going to provide for like work what if i lose work

and the nerd word the nerd word for that is catastrophizing there you go okay all right so that was your original that was originally why you called in that yeah but i'm in the time in between, I'm wondering if it is just possibly a symptom of a bigger anxiety or just something more. Because I get hit with that catastrophizing at different times, and then it just throws me for days or sometimes a day. But I kind of have to like bury my head and all have to like listen to audio books or podcasts, or I kind of have to like, I don't know if I'm making myself forget it or I just wind myself down from the initial buildup. So can I, can I use, can I use your situation as a teaching moment for everybody listening? Because I think it can be a great

gift to folks. Yes, by all means. I'm going to walk through with you a series of questions. I think your impulse is absolutely correct. Barring some sort of brain lesions and things which are super,

super, super rare. I think your impulse is very correct. So I'm going to go through a series of questions that I normally ask folks who are struggling with anxiety. These are the questions I ask myself. Okay? Okay. None of these questions are judgment questions, okay? So the only way to get to some truth is you just to say it as quick as you can and as honest as you can.

Cool? Same team? Yep. All right. So overall weight and health, how are we doing? Good. Good. You exercise regularly. You sleep okay.

You're not super overweight no not overweight um i'm pretty active in my job i do construction carpentry excellent sleeping says sleeping as good as we can as good as i can do i've got some younger kids that wake up from time to time but i'd say overall sleep well yeah all right how much how much money do you owe other people? How much debt do you carry? 20 grand or so. Okay, that's credit cards. How about your house? Just house and a little bit of personal loan to a family member.

How much on your house? Around 20, just low 20s, around 20. So you'll have your house paid off with 20 grand. Yes. Wow. We are, we are running towards that as fast as we are able. All right. In-laws, do they run your life or are you pretty connected?

Oh, real, very connected. Very, yeah. Okay. Very connected. Very close. What about your folks? Uh, same. Very connected. Very close. connected very yeah okay very connected very close what about your folks uh same very connected very close uh would not be where i am in life without either set of in-laws or parents excellent friends do you have a group of guys that you do life with you hang out with outside of work

working working towards that that's been something I've been trying to change over the past month or so. You got it. Yes, I started meeting with two older gentlemen from church that I respect, and then I have a couple of friends that we get together whenever we can. So no. In your dream world, yes, but in reality, no. i've got some guys that i work with on job sites and then i come home to a wife and some young kids yes okay all right cool um what about things the nerd word here is anxiogenic so tell me about your, how much coffee, Red Bull, how much caffeine do you take? I'll have a couple of tumblers through the morning or the working day, and then past

that, just some, just tea and water in the evenings. Okay. All right. Tell me about your marriage. How y'all doing? Good. Highs and lows, but overall. So not great.

So tell me about it. I would lean toward great. There's just, we're trying to work through raising kids. We had an idea of how we would parent, but that's the newlywed idea of it. But other than that, I think that's the biggest stressor is just learning how to raise kids and live life. Okay. How many kids do you have? Three with a planned one in this fall.

Okay. And what are their ages? Five, three, and almost two. Oh, good grief. Okay. Next time you talk to somebody about anxiety, lead with that. Okay. That you have three wild animals that live inside your house. Okay. Tell me about childhood trauma and learning to redefine that word. Um, growing up, I mean, things were great. Um, money was tight at times. Um, but we, my parents were very diligent and gave us a great, a great life growing up. My parents came to faith when I was young,

and so my early years were kind of, I have memories of them kind of working out how to live life and how to do that in a faith base. We started going to church, and I think there was some kind of the pendulum swinging of learning through that. Um, that may be, there may be a little bit there, but again, I'm just kind of starting to, starting to look at that through the lens of what could that have? Are you a, this is going to sound like a loaded question and just just be honest with me okay are you someone who has

almost a supernatural ability to compartmentalize things that disappoint you or hurt your feelings or hurt you in order of making sure everybody else keeps their reputation and everything looks good maybe try again and everything looks good? Maybe. Try again. I'm not sure. Let's put it that way. Okay. All right.

Some people, not a ton of them, but some people had incredibly smooth lives. Just had no bricks in the backpack, man. And some of them then moved up to be adults and they ended up with a pretty great life. And they have a pretty great marriage and they got the chaos of three young kids and that's life.

But they kept plugging along. Then they paid their house off while they were still really young. So they didn't even have that stress anymore. That happened. More common. And again, I don't want to create problems where they don't exist, okay? So this could be you and that is, man, I'm high-fiving you.

And there's an intense pressure on millions and millions of people to be peacekeepers and image bearers. And there is a deep-seated, it feels like a deep betrayal to talk bad about somebody or to tell the truth about a situation or to be honest about just how hard or negative or how how much you're struggling with something and as the great vessel van der kolk says your body's keeping the score and so it could be you you know, we just adjusted with the pendulum as we were kids. And it could have been screaming, knock down, drag out fights

or things that we used to do. All of a sudden we couldn't. And parents looked at you and said, do you want to burn in hell forever? Right? So there's one way of telling that story. Then there's another way of telling that story. And it may have just been, nah, man, my parents decided to start going to church and they decided that they were going to start living this way. And there was a natural clunkiness to figuring out how that works, but that's normal. I don't want to put stories in your head that don't work. Your language sounds very careful to me. Yes. Okay. And sometimes very very very careful language very calculated language is language is a way of speaking that somebody has had to adapt and develop to keep themselves safe and if that i would agree with that if that's you that's anxiety that is a body underneath that like

there will not be any ripples in this water and that is a body underneath that like there will not be any ripples in this water and that is a body underneath that water struggling for air see what i'm saying yeah so you can go back over those things i just talked through and say okay where am i struggling to say i'm really mad or I'm really scared, real scared, or this isn't what I had in mind, or I miss my wife, or quite honestly, my parents provided for us and they were tough to be around. They weren't abusive. I don't want to use that word. They were just really hard to be around. And I don't feel safe going to them for stuff. And I'm pretty lonely. See what I'm saying? There's a, the first step in healing from an anxious life is owning reality, choosing reality. This is the truth about my life, okay?

And so we don't have to do that on this call, but I think that's an important place to start. My friend, Will Godera, he's a restaurateur, one of the best on the planet in New York. I love what he tells his wait staff. He says, you can only fill other people's pitcher when yours is full. Okay. And so what he's telling his staff is you guys got to go do the hard work of filling your pitcher up so that you can show up for these customers who come to our restaurant.

I want to take that analogy and completely reverse it for anxiety. If you have an anxious life, if you've got a bunch of stuff going on or a bunch of unspoken things that you haven't fully connected, your body's going to be at capacity. That picture is going to be completely full. And then you throw on top of it we're going to war with china we're going to war with russia world war three is happening we're gonna have food and climate shortages we're gonna all stuff your body's anywhere else for that stuff to go

you see what i'm saying yeah and so then you have to get into a cycle of avoidance i'm just gonna not watch this stuff until the water stops trickling into your already overfilled pitcher. And so the question I want to ask you is, where do you have, what you're describing to me as someone who's created a very anxious life, that then when what I call normal stressors, there will always be wars and rumors of wars. When those things show up, they become overwhelming.

They override the system. So going back and choosing reality, where is a place that you're, you've filled this sucker up? Probably a lot of places. Cause as you've been laying it out, it's just things just keep coming to mind. Okay.

Oh, oh, oh. I mean, like, I do. Just say it, just say it, just say it, just say it. I try to tell it to my wife. Like, I bottle things up. Yes. And then it either has to come out or it boils over and but I just yeah there's just I just find it really hard to open up and talk to people about anything and then like you said I'm being careful with my words to

keep everything happy and hunky-dory and that makes it difficult to have hard conversations and it also it also makes it very hard to be married to. And it makes it very hard. And I'm not shaming you. I want you to see the dance that happens. When somebody walks up and feels like they're talking to somebody's Twitter account, it's hard to plug into that with true connection. And when somebody's married to somebody who is just basically a screensaver with how wonderful things are, they feel crazy because things aren't wonderful. And then they withdraw a little bit.

And then the person behind the screensaver's body is screaming, whoa, whoa, whoa, connect, connect, connect, connect. But it can't get through the screensaver. And you see how it just creates a dance. And then that person gets a little bit closer, then that other person pulls further away, and now we're in kind of a mess. You see what I'm saying? Yeah.

And so here's the beautiful thing that you're dealing with is there's not any wild overt madness. The challenging part for you is I was making a salary that my granddad couldn't have wrapped his head around. And so was my wife. And we were married and we were paying off six figures of debt. And we had a two-year-old little boy after years of infertility and I went mad. I went mad with work expectations. I went mad with dreams of what things were going to be like one day. I went mad with, I was sharing a bed with somebody that I know loved me, but I was incredibly alone. I was paying off all this debt, but my body kept asking for what, what are we doing? Like what? Okay. So we pay off our house. Then what? Right. You see what I'm saying? And it just, the alarms, the anxiety alarms kept getting louder and louder and louder and louder.

And my dad was a cop and a minister. You can talk about good at wallpaper language. I was one of the best. You hear what I'm, you hear, you hear it. So I do. Here's the, here's what I want to do a couple of things. And it's going to sound like a, like a weird twist. I'm going to send you all of the ones I have, all of the,

the couples ones, the dating ones and the kids ones, the questions for humans. Oh man. Thank you. You don't have to do that. Thank you. Well, it's just, I love you and I I love you, and I'm grateful for your bravery.

I want you to start using these cards to have no expectation conversations with people that you love. I'm going to send you the guys' nights out, and you you can just have some buddies over and y'all can do whatever. Watch the game, watch football, watch fights, whatever it is y'all do. I don't know. You can go build cabinets or I don't know. You sound like a guy who knows how to do stuff. Or y'all can just sit around and have chips and queso

and play Texas Hold'em and use these cards. But I want you to start practicing human connection. Okay? Then I want you to take a piece of paper and I want you to write down things that you do not feel where you do not places where you do not feel safe and be honest and then be very clear about what I can control and what I cannot control. You cannot control whether China sends missiles to russia and escalates this thing

into world war three you can't you can't control whether china invades taiwan you can't you can't control whether biden does whatever and then whoever gets elected after him gets does whatever you can't control any of those things and there's something powerful about letting your brain know yeah these are happening and we can't do anything about it. And literally after a season of practice, your brain will begin to create a gap between, oh, we got to do something. And, oh, that's not our problem to solve because we can't.

And then it won't sound the alarm so much anymore. See what I'm saying? Yeah. So does the peace thing, I guess that's kind of one of the reasons I was calling was just how do I find peace and not, not the stress of it. Just does the time of after those alarms quiet, does this, the peace of knowing like, Oh, what's, I mean, what's, I can't control it and the outcome may not be, may not be great, but I can't control it. Is that where the beginning

of the piece comes from? The beginning of the piece is this. When your body starts to feel anxious, you ask yourself, body, what are you trying to protect me from? Oh, Russia? We can't do anything about that one. And then you let that, like literally feel it run through your body. Can't do anything about it.

And so continuing just to scroll on the news sites, telling me how it's all coming down, we're all going to die and blah, blah. I can't, I can't, I'm just going to turn that off because that's not helpful. That's just gearing me up and gearing me up and gearing me up and gearing me up. Now, if an invasion happens, I'm going to stay glued to the radio because I want to know where the bombs are falling. That's not our world right now. Once I know that inflation's high and I go to the grocery store, I can see those prices. They're expensive. I'm done with the inflation conversation because the only thing I can control is my budget, how much money I'm bringing into my house, and the choices me and my wife

make about what we buy and don't buy. That's what I can control. Not how much bacon is, not how much cereal is or whatever. See what I'm saying? So the piece comes from disconnecting from, I've got to be in charge and control everything. And instead it's about, I've got to get connected. I've got to take care of my body. I've got to be very intentional about where I'm not safe. And I've got to focus on the things I can control versus the things I can't control.

And I want you to be really, really graceful with Daniel because Daniel's a good guy. He's a great husband. He's a good dad. He's a great provider. He's doing good things for his community. And he's learning to live in a new body, a body that's a father of three going on four, a body who's married to a woman who he loves desperately and they've never been married with three kids,

almost four before. It's all new. We're all learning. We're gonna be really graceful with our bodies. I'm also gonna send you a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future. I want you to go through that book and check out some of the stories

you may be hanging on to that you've learned over the years to talk really eloquently about. But that may be spinning your body up. Amazon your copy of Redefining Anxiety. Just a quick read to read through it. And just know this. I'm really grateful for your call.

You're looking at a guy who's been there and on the other side of it, there is peace. There's peace. Start practicing. Start building a non-anxious life. We'll be right back. All right, let's take one more. Let's go to Ashley in Pittsburgh. Hey, Ashley, what's up? Hi, thanks for taking my call. How are you? I'm fantastic. How are you? Good. All right, so what's up? I have quite the doozy for you so i was watching your show and i was watching your show and i have recently been having an issue with my mother-in-law

and i can say it's recent but it actually has been going on for quite some time. So we, my husband and I just welcomed a daughter and she's five weeks old. Congratulations. Thank you. And whenever we go to visit family, we don't go to visit my mother-in-law and my father-in-law. And that's due to, I mean, just to get right into it. My mother-in-law, she has been suffering from anxiety and depression evidently for like 25 years. And the time that I've been in the family, like seven years later, I've really watched it escalate. And it's really tough. And this is a tough situation for the whole family. Cause it's one of those things that nobody is, nobody's been able to put their thumb on why we can't, um, why we can't help some of these, some of the things that she's been, um, that have been affecting the rest of us. So

really what my question is, is we, we don't go over to visit because her house is absolutely filthy. And my father-in-law, I think that he's just exhausted. And there's nothing that he's been able to do to get a hold of it or try to better the situation. And she also smokes in the home. And I just had an appointment for my daughter like a week ago. And the doctor asked, is she exposed to secondhand smoke? And I said, no, but that's because we don't go over to visit. But this whole myriad of issues has driven a little bit of a wedge between me and my mother-in-law because I just won't take her over to their house.

Instead, I take her. Actually, let's reframe that. Okay? Is that cool? Okay. I want to reframe this whole conversation um the rift in in the family is not because of your mother-in-law the rift in your family is because your family and probably your husband's family is trying to solve problems that the person with the challenges is not asking them to solve

and really has no interest in changing. And so what's happening is a whole bunch of people are making themselves crazy trying to fix a problem that the person who's experiencing it doesn't want fixed. I was afraid you were going to say that. I called because I was like,

man, I've pulled out all the stops. I've done everything I can do. There's no stars. Here's the one thing you haven't done. The only thing that, that matters here. And that is look that sweet little baby girl in the eye and say, I've got one job and that's to the best of my ability to keep you safe. Not keep you infinitely protected from scraping your little knee and getting in trouble and getting dumped. That's life. But I'm talking about from things that are going to harm you and sending your kid to somebody who's not well in a home full of smoke and a home that you've described as unsanitary is not safe yeah and so because your mother-in-law is either unable to or is not interested in doing the hard hard hard stuff she

would need to do to get well she by proxy is choosing to not see that little girl it's as simple as that and to my colleagues who would say well she can't make that choice because she's struggling with x y and z that's fine too i'm this isn't a blaming conversation this is just laying out the facts whether she's choosing to not get well i don't think anybody's choosing to be anxious i don't think anybody chooses to be a hoarder or live in filth i don't think that's a choice i think i'm choosing to not get well. I don't think anybody's choosing to be anxious. I don't think anybody chooses to be a hoarder or to live in filth. I don't think that's a choice. I think I'm choosing

to not get well. Right? That's a byproduct. Or, they can't make that choice and it just is. Either way, I'm not putting my kid

in that situation. Right. Okay. So, that's where I struggle because I want to help and I've done everything I can. Would you recommend any books or things that I can read about?

Nope. I would detox. You got to detox from being a people pleaser. And you have to detox from being, I'm freaking Ashley from Pittsburgh and I'm in control of everything. No, you're not. And you also should detox from I'm in control of everything in my own little world because you just had a baby and you are not.

And that's going to make you mad. Not mad like angry, but mad insane. Yeah. Because you could control it all until baby came. And then you have those moments that you realize Some you think back to some of the dates you've been on And you think back to some of the things that people told you on the school bus And there's that moment that all new parents have I have them and by the way, it's not just new parents

It's when our kids go to different stages like when my kid went to middle school I thought back to the things I was a part of and things that happened to me in middle school And I got sick to my stomach. I got literally ill. I thought of the things I said to little kids when I was in elementary school and I was in middle school. I was mean. And I have a seven-year-old daughter and it makes me ill to my stomach to know that there's going to be people like me around her. I can get choked up saying it if i'm not careful and this is the part where love gets really scary and most of us when things get scary we tighten our grip around the wheel and it doesn't help anything sometimes the greatest gift is to loosen our grip on that wheel that makes sense yeah so don't get your esteem and

don't get your value and don't take your angst out on trying to fix your mother-in-law she has not invited you into that conversation she hasn't asked for your help she doesn't want to be less anxious she doesn't want to. it, but I, this, she's evidently, she's been battling this and has been to so many doctors and has been on countless medications, which scares me because when you're switching medications constantly, that can't be good for her brain. And I think to the future and I'm like, what? Yeah. Yeah. What? I mean, but then it goes back to what you said with, you can't control that. She doesn't want to get better.

Right. And so here's the deal. She might say the words, I want your help. And if you've listened to this show for more than a couple of episodes, I always probably say it too much. Behavior is a language. So I can tell my wife,

I want to be a better husband. I want to be a better husband. And then I never help with the dishes. I don't want to be a better husband, no matter what I'm saying. Because my actions are speaking very loudly. And I can say, I don't want to be depressed. I don't want to be anxious anymore. I'm tired of feeling anxious all the time.

And my actions say, well, I'm not going to call a counselor. I'm not going to start hanging out with people and get some community in my life. I'm not going to start eating well and taking care of my body. I'm not going to start hanging out with people and get some community in my life. I'm not going to start eating well and taking care of my body. I'm not going to do that. Well, behavior is a language. I'm going to write that down. That's some good stuff. But here's the deal.

Don't go to war with it. Open your hands up. It just, it's an is. Yeah. And know this, that when I, I've got two competing rules and they often intersect and they don't always the two rules of life um or two of many rules of life i have number one is i don't speak to just have said something that's our instagrammy world like people are always asking why didn't you comment on this and why are you coming on that because i don't have anything to

add to the noise they just people are people don't want didn't you comment on this? And why are you coming on that? Because I don't have anything to add to the noise. They just, people don't want to know what I have to think about things. They just want to see if I'm on their team about a thing. So that's number one. I only speak if I can actually be heard. The second thing is, I don't let, let me say it this way. It's cruel to put up boundaries and not let people know that there's a boundary there And they're just running in and they also they smash into something. They didn't know was there And I get that with your mother-in-law

She may not be able to hear it if you sit down and say I love you so much And i'm so grateful for you I'm, not comfortable nothing to do with her. I'm not comfortable bringing my kid into a house where somebody smokes inside. I'm not comfortable bringing my kid into this house because as we've talked about, it's really unsanitary. I'll be with you if you ask for my help, you want to clean this sucker up and all that, I'm all in. But right now I'm making this choice. Am I a bad person if I've thrown in the towel on trying to help in multiple ways?

Because I've been there to help clean. No. And because I'm just exhausted. No, you're not a bad person. Like the rest of the family. And that's where I have a hard time. Like, man, she's 50. And is this just how life's going to be? We're just going well i guess we are just choose reality it is what it is it is what it is i choose reality and

i mean i wouldn't do this show if i didn't believe deeply that man i just seen people come back from the brink in all all different ages all different situations, all different, like from the wildest trauma to, you know, 60 and 70 year old saying, I'm just going to be different now. And they just choose a different path. So I'm in this for the long haul. I don't believe in quote unquote, giving up on somebody. I also believe in living in reality. And so you've been there a bunch. You've tried to clean up a bunch. It has not worked. Great. I'm going to stop expending energy all the time trying to solve that problem. And quite frankly, that exhaustion you feel is probably you on the treadmill.

You're not going anywhere. You're just running really hard. If there comes a moment when she says, I'm ready, finally, I'm ready. Ready. I'm seeing a counselor. I'm meeting with my doctor to get some stability here. I want to start doing regular lunches or breakfast or whatever once a week with so-and-so and fill in the blank here. We're going to, we're going to set up a pattern. We're going to set up a life. You're going to find you have a lot more energy because you haven't been just sprinting and sprinting and sprinting again getting nowhere Right, but no don't ever apologize especially as a mom of a five-week-old or five bundle For not having energy you get you get a moment you get a moment and particularly do not apologize for your boundary it's a conversation for you and

Your spouse to sit down and say okay What boundaries do we want to have for this little one? And we have to be on the same page as we move forward. We're going to be in this together. Congratulations on having a little baby. I wish it was different. I know that's not how you envisioned this thing going. I know that.

I'm sorry. The only thing you can handle is what comes next. The only thing you can deal with is what comes next. Can't wait to see what happens. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you

so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back. And I was just asking Kelly, I don't know if we're even allowed to do Michael Jackson. Yes, we are. Michael Jackson with the classic. I'm talking about the man in the mirror. I'm going to make a change for once in my life. It's going to feel real good. Going to make a difference. Going to make it right. As I turn up the collar on my favorite winter coat, man, Kelly is always popping

that collar. This wind is blowing my mind. I see kids in the street with not enough to eat. Who am I to be blind, pretending not to see their needs? A summer's disregard, a broken bottle top, and one man's soul. They follow each other on the wind, you know, because they got nowhere to go. That's why I want you to know, I'm starting with the man in the mirror. I'm starting with the man in the mirror. I love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs.