The Dr. John Delony Show - Can Our Marriage Survive My Gambling Addiction?

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

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This is an ad for BetterHelp. You work hard to be the strong one for everyone else, but you're running on empty. That pressure just doesn't disappear. It takes over your life, and talking to someone can help. Go to betterhelp.com slash Deloney for 10% off. I've kind of always had a little bit of a gambling itch,

but recently it's kind of gotten to a point where it's just kind of ruining my life. I can kind of just see where it's going. Yeah. Because I have no control of it. I can't hold on the money. How big of a hole have you dug yourself? Yo, yo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Aloney's show.

Comedy from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on life and relationships and marriage and kids and your mental and emotional health, all of it. If you want to be on this show, I'd love to have you. Click the link in the show notes, and it'll go to Kelly,

The Overlord, and she will get you on the show. It's got to Cincinnati, Ohio, and talk to Amher, Andrew. Hey, Andrew, what's up, brother? Hi, how are you? Thank you so much for taking the time. You got it, man. What's going on? Well, recently, like, I mean, I've kind of always had a little bit of a gambling itch,

but recently it's kind of gotten to a point where it's just kind of ruining my life. Okay. And I don't seem to be able to stop it. And some things that really happened recently that my wife, you know, it just kind of just feels like my wife might be getting to that point where it's like, do this or this, you know. She doesn't really said anything, but it's just, that's how it feels and I don't know how to stop.

Okay, let me stop right there. How many people have you said out loud what you just told me? Honestly, no one ever. I heard that and I just want to honor you. That's a courageous thing to say out loud. I'm proud of you for that, okay? Thank you. Take a deep breath, but how long have you been gambling?

Since I was a teenager. Okay. You're married. You got kids? Yeah. Yes. How many? I have two kids.

How old are they? My son is 11. My daughter is 13. Awesome. So how big of a hole have you dug yourself? That's the thing, right? I've never really gone into debt. I mean, little debts here and there for, like, you know, short-term loans and stuff like that.

But I think the biggest hole that I've dug myself is that I've never. never been able to set myself up or my family for the future or like saved. I'm just never, I can't hold on to money. Okay. I can't. Yeah, I just, I'm not able to build on anything. And it's just every time I get, I have a little extra change. It's like the idea of an ROI is to go to the casino and try to flip it.

Yeah. And you've had just enough flips that you feel like I can do it this time, right? Well, that's the thing is I've kind of always. been a like a break-even poker player so it kind of it

and it recently I've gotten I've gotten better to a point where it's it's basically like stem the bleeding right from the other gambling and

it just feels like the other the other stuff's kind of gotten out of control lately and I can see I can kind of just see where it's going

yeah because I have I have no control over it. Yeah. I feel like I don't. Say that one more time. I feel like I have no control over the gambling. Take the word feel out of it and say that again. I have no control over the gambling. There you go. And this will surprise people that don't have problems with gambling, but have you got to a point where you crave the loss to? Maybe because it keeps me from doing it. There you go. Okay. the strange turn for I'm jonesing for a win is there's something about getting hit in the mouth too

that in a weird way feels safe right okay so you can't do this for your wife and you can't do this for your kids you got to do this for you do you want to be done I do I'm just I'm afraid of I guess my I'm good man I guess quitting to me means quitting everything and it does with gambling it's done I don't I just don't feel like I have any other identity okay so that's going to be part of the

getting well process is finding out who you are or let me say it in another way gambling works brother it has for a long time right it's kept you from having to do other things in your life that let you feel alive in your own skin and it's a it's a cheap hack and all cheap hacks work until they don't. Does your wife know y'all have nothing?

Yeah, that's kind of big, kind of, we've always kind of hovered near zero. It feels like, but never like, since I was a kid, like when I was younger, it was bad, and then it kind of like chilled out if that makes sense. You didn't have any responsibilities? Yeah. And the heavier the responsibilities get, the more you need to escape your skin, because you don't like who you are. Right.

Man. Right? Yeah. Picture yourself sitting down with your 13-year-old and telling her you have no college fund. Yeah. Damn. Why, Dad? Because I wouldn't go do the work to get well.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. And here's the deal. We're not going to ever have to have that conversation because today it's over. Yes, sir. I can't tell you that. I'm just putting that out in the world.

have to own that and metabolize that and then you got to get your butt to work. Right. But you can't make peace with it. And that means you're going to have to lose the fun at the blackjack table. That means you're going to have to lose the fun at the poker table. And the thing that sucks about poker is you can get better at that game. Right?

Yeah. You can get better at that game. That means you have to delete every app and probably go to a flip phone for a season. That's just you pouring out all. the alcohol in your house and giving your wife your debit and your credit card. Okay. You can have to go to a gambler's meeting tonight and skip family dinner. Okay.

And you have to get up at 5.30 in the morning or six and go again. And you're going to have to sit down with your wife and say, I've been sick for a long time and this ends now. And it's going to be a rocky road and I hope that you'll ride with me. I guess the question I have also is just, do I just take I just obviously I can't be in I can't have my do I just kind of just defer everything to her and just kind of like this for this is how it's going to be for a little ball until we figure out like what to like it better or to like I don't want to like put it all on her because I I shoulder a lot of the responsibility you know where I just I kind of just I guess I don't know what that looks like do you work out do you ever go to the gym you ever been to the gym before don't okay I mean I mean I I have, I have, but I don't. Okay, so imagine you're on a bench press, and the weight's really heavy,

and it's slowly coming down, it's going to crush your chest. Right. Would you not want to yell out to a spotter? Hey, I need some help? No, definitely. Because you don't want to bother anybody? Okay, sometimes in marriage,

it's 95-5. Somebody's going to carry a huge load, and you don't want her to be your mom, but as your ride or die, as you're gangster right next to you saying I'm sick, I'm not well right now will you shoulder this for a season

while I go do the work to get well? Right, okay. And here's the deal, brother. That's a vulnerable conversation because she might look at you and say, no, I'm out. Yeah. Or she might break down sobbing

and say, I've wanted this day to come for so long. And then you have to go scorched earth. I need you to have the redo the passwords on our retirement fund. You don't have any retirement. I need you to do the passwords on our bank. I can't know how much money is getting deposited in this account. And here's all of our online bills.

And for a season, I need you. Yeah. Man, I guess I never really thought of it. And then you wake up one day and, you know, you're 35 and you've kind of just been doing this thing for a long time. And it's nothing's different. Yeah. Well, things are different because life keeps putting weight on either side of that bar, and it gets heavier and heavier and heavier. Yeah.

And the way somebody's struggling in any sort of addiction deals with the additional weight is to just do their thing more. That's true, yeah. Right? And so what you have to do is strip all that weight off. You can't leave the gym. You got to strip all that weight off and go back to just lifting the bar until you get strong enough to add five pounds than 10 pounds. And pretty soon you'll be back to lifting way more weight off. than you were before, but you'll be doing it, not the crutch.

Okay. Here's the three things I'm going to tell you, okay? Number one, you absolutely 1,000 percent take this to the bank. You cannot do this by yourself. The thing you think you're hiding from the world, which is that you inside your own chest, they all see it and they all feel it. And because you have an untreated addiction, they're paying the price for it. What does that mean?

That means you unzip your own. your chest and you let your wife in you go to meetings and let other men and women inside and see and what you're going to find is oh they didn't leave they love me the thing i was most terrified of i was wrong i am worth being loved i'm not the worst husband and the worst dad and the worst man i'm not the second thing is you have to break up with money for a season scorched earth you cannot go to the bar and hang out with the same people and just tell yourself you're not going to drink. You know you will. Right.

And the third thing is you're going to have to let your wife love you. Okay. Well, I'm fairly certain she's ready. I just, I don't want, the thing that prompted this whole situation, sorry, I know you're in the middle of explaining. No, no, I'm good. The thing that prompted this whole situation was the lady, I don't know, it came on the podcast like maybe a week or two weeks ago. and she was, I think she was married for like 20, 25 years on my daughter husband was an alcoholic.

And he finally wanted to get better and she was done already. Yeah. But here's what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to sit down with your wife and put this whole thing on her. And here's what I mean. I don't want you to sit down with her and say,

I'm afraid you're not going to love me anymore. I'm afraid, I want to do this for you. I want to do this for the kids. Because what you're doing is you'll be taking that cinder block in your backpack and handing it to her and say carry it for a while. And it's not the tasks. It's your emotional weight.

Right. I want you to sit down with your wife and say, I'm worth being well and whole for y'all. I'm worth being loved, and I've never let you fully in, and I'm sorry. And I've been a gambling addict for years, and that ends today. Today's day one. Yeah. And here's what must be true.

I need you to take the money and the bills and the whatever for a while. I'll pick up some slack around here with the kids, with whatever. I'll start taking the kids to breakfast in the morning when I get done with meeting. And I'm going to practice sitting across from my 13-year-old and feeling like I'm under a heat lamp from all the exposure. But I'm not scared of her because I love her and I'm going to let her love me. Yes, sir. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I understand.

I want to change. I want to be different. I want to. I just don't. Yeah, I don't like this. Okay. this is the this is bravery in action right here this is character

yeah I appreciate that and brother listen to me the road will suck it feels like it right okay yeah even you thinking you're going to get off this call and you're going to all you're going to immediately start

negotiating yeah I feel like I'm already doing that in my head now I know you are I don't want I know I don't want to let it in I know. I know. Okay.

There's no negotiating or terrorists, right, in the middle of your chest. There's just not. No, sir. No. And if today's not the day you're done, then today's not the day you're done. No. But when you're ready, there's a ton of resources out there for you. There's gambling anonymous hotlines.

I haven't found a lot of success with people. Like, it's good acutely. I need someone to call right to second. But long-term, getting better is I'm going to go. go sit down in a room full of people and say, hey, man, my name's Andrew, I can't stop. And you putting in the work to go find the meetings, you putting in the work to get up and roll out of bed, you putting in the work to miss dinners a couple times a week to go to these things, it will begin to prove to you that you're a guy you can count on.

And when you're struggling with an addiction like you have for this long, you've lost trust in you. and these slow, tiny steps of keeping your promises to yourself rebuilds that foundation underneath you, man. I cannot tell you. I cannot express in words how proud of you I am. I'd hug you if you were here. You call any time. We'll get you back on the show.

I'll walk with you through this process. But, man, I'm going to tell you I'm proud of you. Today's day one, brother, Andrew. Today's day one. I've got to a point in my life where I only buy things that I know I'm going to use regularly and that are going to last a long time. I hate buying stuff that breaks and that you just stick in a drawer and you forget about it.

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Okay, that's not true. Maybe 10 or 15. Just hit the, bing, subscribe button, and it just makes such a huge difference for the guests we can get on the show and for the algorithms, for all of it, for all of it. Thank you so so much for being with us. And if you're listening to this on podcast,

hit the subscribe button. It changes everything for us. Let's go out to Norfolk, Virginia, and talk to dear Marie. What's up, Marie? Hello, it's good to talk to you, Dr. John. It's good to talk to you. What's going on?

I have a question for you. That was a great way to enter it. I am curious if you can speak to, how do I resolve conflict with my husband when he is struggling to take accountability for his end? So for some backstory, hold on. Hold on, you have to promise me something. You tell me the backstory, okay? Okay, yes. You said that in the nicest way possible.

And I feel like you're laughing to keep the dam from breaking. Am I right? A little bit of that, probably also a little bit of laughter because I'm on the Dr. John Deloney show. Oh, that's not funny. That is funny. You know how bottom of the burial you're reaching for help when you call. Stranger on the Internet. No, not at all.

I'm grateful to get to connect because I'm curious, especially for your perspective with like the male perspective, I think might be helpful. Just to give you a little bit of a backstory, we have been together for about eight years and we have two children. He's a good guy. He's dedicated in work. He's involved with the kids. I just think that we're in a bit of a toxic phase relationally. And that's probably has a lot to do with the fact that we're parenting. two small children.

Maybe. Maybe. When you say he won't take accountability, talk to me about that. What does that mean? Give me an example. Yeah. So if we have a disagreement, or I guess if it, with children, for example, if maybe something goes a way that is hurtful to me, like I maybe hear him say something to the

children that's kind of like undermining me in a way. Give me an example. So we were putting the kids to bed one night, and I have a baby, so I was nursing, and we also have a four-year-old, so he was doing bath. It was like 10 o'clock at night. We were struggling to get these kids down. And he had some loud music playing over bath. Like picture, you know, Montel Jordan playing over bath time. Oh, yeah. Right. So it was pretty happening. He's having a good time. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's 10 at night. Right, it's 10 o'clock at night. So I didn't yell, but I like yelled a lot enough to be able to be heard from the other room.

I was like, hey, you know, it's 10 o'clock at night. Can we turn the music off? Like, it's time to wind down. And I heard him say, like, you know, of course my son's unhappy about that. And I heard him say like, oh, yeah, mom made us turn it off. And I pressed him afterwards about that. I was like, hey, you know, it kind of hurt my feelings when you. said like, oh, mom made us turn it off because it made me sound like the bad guy. Like, I'd rather

us be a united front and you'd be able to say like, oh, man, it is 10 o'clock. Yeah, but it's time to start winding down. You know, like just have that kind of, you know, united front with our child versus having it be like him talking bad about me in front of my child. Like mom's punishing us. Mom's making us turn it off. And so when I approached him about it afterwards, it's just, It's difficult because in that instance, he just kind of instantly starts bouncing back to what I did wrong in this situation when I tried to approach him about it. I was really calm when I talked to him. I just said, hey, this felt really disrespectful. Like, I want to be mindful of like how we're talking about each other in front of our child. And it just kind of deflects back to, well, I felt disrespected because I made a choice to do this and I'm handling back time and you're interfering. Oh, shut up, dude. That guy. I'll give you the male perspective.

I'm going to overgender this. So, internets who are listening, everybody relax. In my house, I am the ball of chaos. Right? I am the guy who would do what your husband did. And my wife is responsible. She is an adult. Sometimes I can, on the teeter-totter of adulthood,

can end up more like, hey, you know what? we should do now let's go wrestle in the front yard and it's 11 right and so your request for hey can you not make me the bad guy is not only the right request but it's honorable and i think every couple who's got young kids has to learn that right because i have a 10 year old now and when she's in bed at 8 o'clock or 8.15 and I go run in and I do a big cannonball on her bed, which I think I did last night. And my wife goes, we're winding down, John. I can look at my daughter and be like, fun ruin her. And my daughter will go, dad, it's bedtime. We have to wind up, right? So at 10, at 15, you can play like that. Four, you can't. And so your request is 100% valid and right.

And the quote unquote male perspective on this is your husband should say, you're right, it's 10 o'clock, tomorrow morning's going to be a nightmare. Sorry about that. Right? Yeah. And I hear that. I think that it's even broader than that one incident. I know it is. I know it is.

So tell me about it. I think there's definitely a degree of, like, just avoidance. I think there's like that avoidant attachment. where talking about feelings or talking about things that have gone wrong. I think that if I were a betting woman, I would bet that that comes with feelings of, I don't want to hear about when I'm letting my wife down. I don't want to hear about like if I'm doing something wrong.

And instead of sitting with like the vulnerability of that feeling, I think that he just kind of puffs up and goes into defensive mode of like, I just won't admit that I was wrong. Right. And defensiveness is one of the four horsemen of the Gottman's relational apocalypse. Right. Defensiveness. Oh, yeah.

Because not wanting to deal with, you're not perfect, not wanting to deal with somebody who loves you enough to say, hey, let's do this a different way or there's a better way to do this, is a choice to not ever grow or get better at what you're trying to do. Right. I would rather be right. I'd rather feel right than be right. Yeah, and so I guess like my deeper rooted question here is like not even seeking like validation for, I mean, I appreciate the validation for it was good to want to go to. No, I'm your husband. I'm him except for I know. I'm wrong.

Right. I think that like I've heard you say in the past that like men live in a failure factory. Yes. And so when I'm looking at this, I'm trying to figure out, like, how do I seek, you know, in my conversations with him, the validation of, like, him hearing what I'm saying and me pressing into it until I'm heard and not getting walked all over. But at the same time, like, not coming at him so much and that I make him feel like a failure because he's always letting me down and I'm always trying to talk to him. Like, I think that he, from his perspective, is like, oh, she always wants to talk about her feelings. And, like, she's always, you know, pressing in on this thing or pressing in on that thing. And from my perspective, it's like, well, that's marriage. Like, we just have to be able to have these conversations on a regular basis about what's working, what's not working, and how to change things.

But I think that he likes, like, the ignorant bliss of like, let me just forget about all this past stuff and just have a good day. And that's the certain work for me. Well, not only that, here's the thing. You can't, you can't be a scorekeeper either. There can't be a scoreboard in marriage. Right. It has to be, there's going to be a scoreboard, but it's y'all two versus the world. It can't be you two versus each other.

Yeah. And so the, the, and that's hard, especially when you, got little ones, right? Mm-hmm. Because he might feel like I'm carrying all the weight of the bills and the this and the that, and you might think I'm carrying all of the responsibilities for his kids. Like when people start thinking, yeah, and I always, and he never is and she nevers, and I always, man, that's a recipe for pulling out the scorecard saying like, well, it's 41 to 30.

I'm winning. Yeah. Right? And so the only path I can see for you, by the way, there are people that can never get over the defensiveness. It's why the Gottman's called it out. This ends relationship, somebody who cannot take challenge from somebody.

But I'll also say, you can't hear a challenge if you're not seen and known and celebrated on the front end. So I'm going to get to him because I'm frustrated with guys like him, and I'm frustrated because I was a guy like him, okay? But when's the last time you made him a cup of coffee

instead I'm really grateful for you. Yeah. I mean. Or when's the last time you grabbed his face, even though you're exhausted and you said, I'm so grateful that you work so hard during the day. So we have this house. Yeah.

Probably not as often as I should. I've been trying to do that more, but I think that I'm definitely in stress and overload right now. too, so I'm sure that that gets neglected on my end as well. And it's both and, right? And my guess is there's not a time recently that he's grabbed your face gently and said, you're the best freaking mom I've ever seen.

You're doing a great job. No. Right? Because women live in the guilt factory. Am I doing this right? Am I doing this right? I'm not doing this right. We should have been in bed at 8 o'clock, and now he's not in bed at 8 o'clock.

I'm a bad mom because he's not getting enough sleep and yada yada yada. And it comes out as you're screwing all of this up. And guys live in the failure factory and it's they get to where I can't hear any criticism. I can't hear any challenge at all. And by the way, criticism is also one of the four horsemen, right? Someone who's just constantly, and criticism is not, you didn't do this right. It's you didn't do this right because you're fill in the blank with a character judgment to it, right? challenging somebody to be to get to improve a thing that's awesome that is marriage

holding each other up to this collective here's who we want to be and here's who we want our kids to be that that always involves challenge but challenge has to come after i see you and i know you knowing might be now's not the right time or for him knowing is i'm trying to make a joke with my four-year-old. I know this is my wife. It hurts my wife's feelings. I'm not going to make that. I'm not going to try to make that connection with my four-year-old because my connection with my wife trumps my connection with my four-year-old. Right? And then when we see and know each other, then we celebrate the crap out of each other. And then gives us permission to challenge each other. That's the past. But here's the thing. The only way I can see moving forward is when things are good

with you and your husband, and they may not be right now. You have an infant. You have an infant. you have a four-year-old that you sit down and say, I don't feel like I'm able to connect with you when I have something I want to put out on the table. Can you give me a path to say things that you can, in a way you can hear them? Because I feel like I'm always coming at you and I don't want to be like that.

Yeah, and I've tried that to a degree. Like he recently was saying that, you know, oh, now's not a good time to talk about something because it's late at night and, you know, we're all tired. So I'm like, okay, well, let me put a pin in it and try to talk about something later. And then I wait until the daytime to talk about something. And oh, well, now we're having such a good time. And why would we bring this up right now?

Because we're having fun and not just like you're faking an argument. That's just avoiding. Yeah. But like in my house, we have a 9 o'clock rule. We don't have big talks after 9. Yeah, that's probably wise. But it goes on the calendar for the next day. Right?

So we can't play avoidance forever. And at my house, I'm the big. conversation guy. Let's have a big, deep talk. My wife's like, how about we go to sleep? Right? And so for me, it's like, okay, we'll put a pin in it tomorrow morning before we go. And she's like, absolutely great. Yeah, that's wise. Because there's a rarely good conversation. You're trying to resolve things late at night for us anyway. And here's the thing. If we want to have big conversations because we want to get to know each other better, because you all have never been married with two kids.

You all have a new marriage. And if you want to get to know each other, if you're wanting to re-get to know each other, man, big conversations are awesome. If big conversations are a list where you're going to go down the list and tell him where he's screwing up, yeah, he's going to avoid those 10 days out of 10.

Right. And I feel like I try to be careful with my words. I definitely don't want to speak, you know, negatively on his character. I know, but listen. He knows you're being careful around him. I don't know if he does. He does.

Has this increased since y'all have had kids? Oh, definitely. I think it's probably just, you know, our body's exhaustion and irritability and things like that that are probably playing into a lot. And, you know, we've never had to partner together to raise two tiny humans before. There you go.

So, like, there's more stakes of, like, of opinions of how it should be done and things like that that are certainly coming into play. Okay. So this is where, again, not every couple can do this, and it depends on where y'all are. My hope is you could, and I hate to put another thing on you, okay, because I know you're exhausted. I know that. And if he was on the phone, I would be putting it on him, but you called, right?

So is there a chance y'all can get away for a half-day retreat? And call and get a babysitter and just say, I miss you. We've never been married with two kids. What kind of marriage we want to build? Who do we want our kids to become? And that's where you have the conversations about, I want my kid to be fun and silly and respectful and kind. And you can say, cool, that means they need 10 hours of sleep at that age,

maybe 12. Yeah. And if he's like me, I used to buzz into the house. I'd get off of work at 6.30. I'd buzz in the house at 7. I might, maybe could catch the end of dinner. and then it's bath time and then the only connection I would have

to be silly and fun and wind up was after they should already be asleep. And that meant I had to reroute my work schedule to where I had to stop like doing whatever. I had to quit going to lunches with colleagues and I had to do my work so I could leave the office. You get what I'm saying?

It took some high intentionality that I didn't want to do. I didn't like doing. But it, It's hard. I would love to have those kind of conversations with my husband. I think that, you know, sometimes they just have to be like on his terms or what he's comfortable with. It's a little hard sometimes when I bring those topics.

I feel like they struggle to move. I even bought your questions for humans for couples just to try to see if, you know, like having those like bits for connection. I'm like, let's just talk about different things. Let's connect. And it's just not really been his way of one. wanting to connect. And I flat out asked, like, what is your way? Like, what, how do we connect and have these kind of conversations? And I didn't really get an answer for that. I would circle back to that. Yeah. Most men I find these days that are married with two young kids, the only way they know

to connect is sex. And they also, most men, again, not all of them, there's some awful people out there, but most men know now's not a good time for that. And they don't have a plan B. And they're completely uncomfortable with big, heavy conversations, especially lists of things they're screwing up. And so they shut down. Yeah. And so A, it takes men having emotional maturity to weigh it, weighed into, there are some things about raising kids that I just don't know or that I haven't thought through. Or my dad wrestled with me at 10 o'clock at night and I turned out fine. And there is some truth to that. And there's been more science. in the last 20 years

about just how much stinking sleep a kid needs. Right? And so the only path I can see for you guys is somebody's got to clear the deck and both of you have to be at the table.

But, man, my hope is he's not just a defensive emotionally immature man because that's pretty tough to navigate around. Hopefully, maybe the, here's the stories I'm making up

I'd love to hear the stories. Maybe that's the path through. Maybe like my wife said to me, or said to me, I need you just to sit here and I need you to not abandon the table. I need you not withdraw. I need to be present during this conversation. And I was like, okay, I could do that. And that conversation began a change in everything.

Sorry, sister. But I do, man, I'll just leave it at that. Yeah, thanks for the call. And if he wants to call me, I'd love, love, love to talk to him. Not in a mean way, but just in a... maybe a way to help him see a different perspective. Supplements, supplements. Listen, everybody's talking about supplements.

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rare that Kelly, when I get off a call that Kelly comes into my ears and says, hey, you blew one. And it's not rare that I mess up, but, and I love taking ownership when I mess up. But it's rare when Kelly is like, I didn't like how that call went. And when the people of the internets are unanimous in, John, you screwed up big time on a call. So I went back and listened to this call. And then Kelly and I talked to it. We didn't talk to it, but we talked about it. All right.

So Kelly, let's discuss. All right. So this is a call we took a couple weeks ago about a woman who had been married for 25 years. And her husband had been a high functioning alcoholic for the majority of the time. Actually, probably the entire marriage. And he was now in rehab, but she was done. She was done. And her question was, do I wait until he comes home and tell him I'm done?

or do I tell him while he's in rehab? Okay. And it starts. And it starts. So the original question she asked me at the very beginning of the call was, do I end this marriage or does he get out of rehab and we just go back to our separate lives living under the same roof and our miserable marriage that we've had? And so I instantly allowed my emotions to get frustrated. with her because that's a preposterous question, right? Do I, do I end it? Great. If that's what you want to do,

it's been 25 years awesome. Or do I go back to woes me? I'm just going to live a separate life because I'm done here. And so I, dude, I felt it. It was what was what was funny, not funny, but when you and I were reviewing the call together, I found myself getting upset all over again. Oh, I could see it on you. when you were watching it, you were, I mean, I could see the same emotions coming out in you. And what was so interesting is, so here in the booth, we were, while you were doing the call, we were all like, wow, what's, something is up with this. And we'd never seen you react like that to, that there was something that this call was to use one of my least favorite words triggering.

Yeah, yeah, it set me off. It did. And that's bad form on my part, right? Yeah. And then I thought, well, that's interesting that we all pick that up, but the listeners pick that up. Yeah. Well, John is feeling a certain way on this, and we don't know why. Now, I will say the advice you ultimately gave her was great. There was no question about the advice. After 25 minutes of... After 25 minutes of telling her how much she sucked. Because you did say, if you're going to leave him, call his counselor in rehab, and let the counselor guide you through that. Tell him now, but while he's surrounded by people that can help him walk through that. Which was great advice. So I didn't have any qualms at all with the advice you gave her in the end.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's do this. Let's, our awesome editor, Hamas, made a, like, kind of a synopsis of the call. So we're going to play it right now. And then I'm going to come back and I'm going to say where I think I messed up big time. And I also going to, like, peel back the curtain a little bit and give a listener, here are some things I'm always looking for. And here's a couple of techniques that I use sometimes. And here's where those particular techniques did not work at all.

and where I allowed my emotions to really blow an interaction with the hurting person, which is always a fail on my part when that happened. So, all right, let's roll the clip and then we'll circle back. He's been an alcoholic, a high, high functioning alcoholic the whole time, and he finally decided he was going to go to rehab. So I took him to rehab and the whole way down there, he was, you know, I just want us to get back together or reconnect. I just want you to love me and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

and I kind of have moved on whether he's aware of it or not. Do I just go ahead and give him a divorce so if he wants to move on, he can. But he was sick. But, and this may make me sound bad. After a while, you know, you don't care. You don't just not like him. You despise him. You despise what he's put you.

I don't. It's worse. Let me say it's worse than despise. I'm apathetic. That's it. You don't. even care. I think you're mad that he's going to get help. What you, what you're not owning here is that you have chosen every minute of this too. If he was a stranger, you would treat him with more

grace and gratitude than you're treating him right now. The fact that you're mad that he's going to get help. No, I'm not. I'm, I'm, I'm mad that it's too little too late. If that's the way you want to see it, then yes, it's cruel for you to welcome him back home and say, I'm still going to remain cut off. I'm not going to listen to your, to you walk through your guilt and your pain and your shame and regret. I will not be here for you. I haven't been here for years.

You weren't here for me. Yes, that's cruel. And your feeling of superiority over him is, yeah, it's going to be a tough shadow for him to heal out from underneath. because you think you're so much better than him. I will not disagree because of the stuff that's gone on. Okay. But right now, but listen to me, you're addicted to anger and you're addicted to righteousness

and you're addicted to rage. I'm not mad. I'm too far past to go back to try to have a romantic relationship with him. Okay. I think a compassionate thing to do would be to let him know while he's surrounded by care and support. Okay. Because at least he could hear that news face to face from you and then have a team of rehab specialists and sobriety specialist and hopefully mental and medical care. Mental support and medical care around him.

Yes. Well, he metabolizes that. Here's what's so wild. Hearing, I hear myself being mad there. And that's so unlike me because I just don't roll like that. And to be honest, a lot of the things you said were true. And she admitted that, yeah, you're right. They were true.

Okay, what was it about me that, like, because when I got off, you, and it's rare that this happens, right? Like, we joke, but, like, I really value Kelly's opinion. And it's rare when you get off, when a call is over and you go, whoa. It was the fact that I think we could all see in here that she was done, rightfully so. after 25 years. And I felt that you made her or tried to make her feel guilty for being done. Because when she, the one line that stuck out in there was, but he was sick when she was talking about the 25 years. Yes, he was.

But that doesn't mean that she has to stay and give him another chance. And she has to stay in the marriage now that he's chosen to get help that she has to be all in now. Totally. That time has failed for her. But I felt that you were getting on to her for that. Yeah. That's what the thing that I think that kind of the overwhelming and a lot of the comments that we saw as well were that you were getting mad at her. Like it felt like, well, how can you be mad at him?

He was sick. Gotcha. Yeah. So I'm going to point out where I got set off on this. And I'm saying out of the gate I was wrong. If I choose to enter into sitting with a hurting person, it's my job to make sure my emotions are under control. clearly they weren't. I can see it on this, like watching myself back. That's 100% on me. So a couple of things that set me off here. Number one is, and this wasn't in the clip, but 25 years of

my life has happened to me. I struggle with that because there comes a point when I'm either accepting this or I am going to take ownership of my life. The second part here is there's kids in here. And one of the questions that wasn't in this clip was when I said, why didn't you leave so much earlier if it was so bad? And the caller talked about, our kids have been begging him. That's a set me off.

Never put your kids in a position to be the adult in the house. If there's an abusive adult, an addicted spouse, Like it's the other spouse's job to get to protect those kids. And one of the conversations was I took my kid out. We had lunch and I think it was 12 or 14 year old through a big fit that we were going to get divorced, that I was going to leave him. And so I decided to stay. And for me, it's like how dare you put that on a 12 or 14 year old, right? Right.

And then she also came back. I wanted to include that, but it was too long that whole conversation. But she also came back and said, I shouldn't have done that. Sure. Absolutely, yeah, yeah. But you're right. She shouldn't. I mean, even when she did that, we were all in here like, oh, that wasn't great.

Yeah. So for me, like, set off number one is I want people to take ownership for the situation that they're in. Number two, protect kids. And the third one, and this is where I missed it big time, I heard her, I did not pull apart the romance. Like, he thinks he's going to get out of rehab and come home and we're going to just fall, we're going to create this great. marriage together. I heard her as not celebrating the husband, I mean, the father of her kids, finally going to get the help he needs. And my whole life philosophy is nobody's too far for redemption.

There's always going to be consequences, right? Doesn't mean you can get out of prison. Doesn't mean your marriage isn't over or whatever. But I wouldn't do this show if I didn't believe in redemption. And so even if somebody after 25 years is like enough, right? The the father of her kids, not her husband, the father of her kids, just circle back to those kids and say, your dad's getting well. That's hard, but that's an emotionally mature response for an adult.

Now, I can say, I'm done with the marriage. I'm choosing to end this thing. Awesome. That is an adult taking ownership of what I'm going to do next. But what way I heard it was, oh, now he's going to get help. And so I reacted irresponsibility.

to, yes, thank God he's going to get help. Not that your marriage has to continue. And so I heard her getting frustrated that he was finally going to get help after all these years, right? And that's totally on me. That's where I missed it. Which she did say she was frustrated. Yeah. Yeah.

Like now he was finally going to get help. And because what she said was, I'm frustrated that he's now he's going to get help and he expects this. And I missed the and expects this. And I just camped on, throw your hands up in the air and celebrate. Right? The father of your kids who's been a not a good father for 25 years. And again, it was, oh, now he's going to go do this and it's going to take away my excuse to leave. And it was constantly this, this somebody else's responsibility on my life. So anyway, that's where I think I really missed it. The biggest thing is I watch myself back and see that I got angry. And I tried to think back to was I tied. Was I dealing with something off off air? I don't know. But yes, I fully own.

That's on me for getting set off because I see it. And I think for callers, that's such a jarring. I mean, for listeners, that's jarring because I usually don't roll like that. No, it was, it was, you know, we've been doing this show together now six years. And I've never seen that reaction from you, which was, that's one reason it was so interesting. It's like, wow, I've never seen that from John. And, well, and I have such a built-in, take care of kids and celebrate people no matter where they are. And the third is take ownership of your life, right?

And you don't need someone to fall and stumble for you to have permission to take what you think is the next right step. And I hear this with couples, like, if he cheats again, I'm out, you're already out. And so stop waiting for this other thing and the other thing. And so anyway, all that together, man, who. But I missed it. And so I don't think I missed it. I think I still stand by, take care of kids, take ownership of your life. If you've chosen to stay in something for 25 years or 30 years, you have to own that I've chosen to stay here.

And I know that leaving is also hard, especially for women. I know the statistics on that. And I'm going to protect myself and I'm going to protect my kids. and also for all of us. Take it out of therapists. Take it out of people like me who sit with hurting people for a living in just as a way of being.

I also want to talk to moms and to dads and to brothers and sisters. You can have all kind of feelings, but all of us are responsible for our next emotional right in action. The thing that we do next, and I blew it on that. I did not take good emotional responsibility,

for my actions in the way I spoke to somebody who was hurting. And, dude, I totally own that one. So thanks for being with us. Kelly, thanks for calling me out. Internet people, y'all let me know. Y'all let me know. And especially to the caller. Sorry, I missed it.

Sorry, I missed the ultimate, ultimate question. And I hope you've got some peace now that you've made your decision on. I want to live my life unattached to this person. and I wish you the absolute best moving forward in your life, you and your kids. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer is here, and man, everything changes this time of year. The kids are out of school, routines are out the window, you're traveling more, you're probably

sleeping less, and if you and your family are not careful, you can all end up running on fumes. I know, because I'm running on fumes right now. And if you don't slow down and take care of yourself, self, your physical self, and your mental and emotional self. This stress will not just disappear. It shows up in your body, in your work, in your relationships, in your patients. It shows up everywhere. This is why I'm a big fan of BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and your preferences. All of their therapists follow a strict code of conduct, and you can message yours and schedule sessions right

in the app. If it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime. No. extra cost. Listen, you don't have to carry everything by yourself, especially in the busy summer season. Go to betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off. That's BetterHelp, help.com slash deloney. All right, Kelly, pretty and pink. What's up? Aw. I was talking about your shirt. What's up? I know, but it's pink and you said pretty. And that's the closest I get to a compliment with you. I got to take it. That's true. All right.

So I have a together app question for you. All right. Let it rip. All right. So you talk about going first in relationships. So what is that going first? And how does the app help do that? So much of relationships get to be, well, you did that, so I'm going to do this.

Or because you did this, I'm going to do that. Outside of issues of safety, outside of issues of trust, what you find, you end up in a scorekeeping thing and scorekeeping in relationships. Well, you did this, so I'm going to do that. Like, no, I'm going to be the guy I said I would be. And I'm going to go first. I'm going to be the woman I said I was going to be. I'm going to go first.

And so what the app does is it throws up a task for you to do that day towards your spouse. And what I love about it is, by the way, if you're in an unsafe marriage, unsafe relationship, this app's not for you. You need to go seek safety immediately. but that's not the vast majority of relationships. Regardless of you're in a good mood, regardless of if I don't feel like it, regardless of if he stayed up too late last night watching YouTube clips instead of coming to bed and now he's grumpy or regardless of she's been mean to me the last week,

I get this thing, I'm going to leave her a note and tell her how grateful I am. It's you practicing celebration. It's you practicing, I'm going to go hug him anyway. And it's those tiny little bids that bring me. you closer and closer together. It's, it's, it's teaching you autonomy. I don't have to wait on the world to feel a certain way before I go do the next right thing. That's actually what I love this app so much for that. Because when I'm not feeling like it or I'm not thinking about it, bing, it pops up on my phone, go do this thing right now for your wife. And you're like,

sometimes, I'm going to be honest, sometimes I go, and you go do it anyway. And I have not regretted going first yet. So that's what that means. Go first, go first, go first. Be the person you want to be in your relationship. Give it a chance. Love you guys. Bye.