The Dr. John Delony Show - Choosing a Therapist, Dealing w/ Resentment, & Telling Kids They're Adopted

Episode Date: April 12, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode   I'm from Costa Rica and when I was 8 my family came here illegally. I am happy here but angry with my parents for uprooting my life. My 15-year-old son steals things from us and his siblings. What do we do? Teaching Segment: How do I know if I need a therapist and what is the sign of a good therapist? How and when do we tell our 2 small children that they are the product of embryo adoption?  Lyrics of the Day: "Circle" - Edie Brickell & New Bohemians   As heard on this episode: BetterHelp   tags: anger/resentment/bitterness, family, adoption, parenting, counseling/therapy, kids   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk to a young woman who was ripped from her childhood home by her parents and moved to America, and she still is angry at her parents. We talk to a mom whose 15-year-old son is stealing from the family, and she doesn't know what to do. And we talk to an awesome young dad who has two children from adopted embryos, and he wants to know, when do I tell them the truth about their family of origin? Stay tuned. Hey, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Glad you're here. Taking your calls on your relationships,

on your mental health, on parenting, on whatever's going on in your life and in your world. So normally this is when I make a joke or I have some funny things or some serious things or I don't know, talk about something positive. And there's no secret here. You can hear it in my voice. It's been a hard few days. And by the time you get this, we end up shooting these shows a couple weeks

ahead of themselves, I guess. And so this show, you'll get it in a few weeks. But this weekend, man, we lost a light. Lost a buddy named Mark Rogers in a small town called Abilene, Texas. Man, one of the most extraordinary men I've ever met. In fact, most people outside my wife and a few friends don't know this. It was the first podcast I ever did in my life. I refused to be on the internet and he had a show with his buddy called Simply Human. And he's the first guy that talked to me about, man, wellness is a much bigger picture

than trying to do a marathon or trying to eat keto or whatever. And one of the funniest guys I've ever, ever met. Man, I was jealous of him in so many ways. Super good-looking guy. He married an old friend of mine, and together they had three remarkable little girls. He died suddenly this weekend in a one-in-a-million car wreck. Senseless, heartbreaking.

We talk a lot. You guys hear me answer other people's calls all the time on this show, always talking to other people about their challenges. And there's just a level of disingenuousness. Is that the right word? I've got to be honest, right? And this is one of those days that I'm hurting and one of those days that works hard,

one of those days that it's hard to get out of bed, and one of those days that works hard, one of those days that it's hard to get out of bed and one of those days that I hug my kids extra tight. And you lose somebody like that, there's just a few people on the planet that were born flashlights for other people to follow. He was the president of Big Brothers Big Sisters in his community, ran a non-profit in his free time with his wife and was just the dad of the century, man. So to my brother Mark, we miss you, and all those folks, the thousands of young kids that you've touched through young life, through big brothers and big sisters, just by being

the guy that was funny and silly and brought joy into dark places, man. To that community, it's going to be mourning your loss for years and years and years. And the Rogers family, the Barker family, those folks who are just going to be in a lot of hurt, I want you to know that we're thinking about you and praying for you. I'm a human too, man, and I'm struggling to get through this one. This one was extra, extra, extra hard. Not because we were super close. We didn't talk to each other.

Man, we didn't talk that often. But he had an impact on me that was pretty significant and he impacted a lot of people on a daily basis. Be thinking about you guys. And if you're listening to this, just so you know, we're people too, man. And we struggle like everybody

and we reach out to our friends and I've got a great group of friends who we've been communicating and talking and even shared some heartbreak with my old man. My old man and Mark were close, too. So those are hard things, man. And you get up and you go to work. And then you make sure you surround yourself with people who are going to walk alongside you during hard times. And then we will continue to put good into the world and do what we can to make meaning on the back end of this.

But I just wanted to be honest and share with everybody. You can hear it in my voice, and my normal, like, pew-do-pew-pew is just not there today, man. And I can fake it and lie to everybody, and that's not the show we're going to do, and that's not the person I am. So we're glad that you're here. Thank you for letting me talk about one of the best men I've ever met, Mark Rogers. And let's go straight to the phones today.

Let's talk to Ellen in Tampa Bay, Florida. Ellen, what's going on? How can I help? Oh, it's Ellen and I. Sorry. I thought there was a typo there. And turns out, Amanda, she's sitting in for Kelly today, working the phones today. She can type.

I can't read. So it's Ellen and I. What's up? How can I help? Hey, well, first I want to say that I've been praying for you today. Thank you so much. And yeah, your show is such a blessing to me. I've been watching for a while now, but okay, anyway, let's get to the point. Thank you. What's up? Yeah, I was born in Central America. And when I was eight years old, my parents told me we were going to Disney World. But instead, we moved to the United States and stayed as illegal immigrants for almost 20 years. Whoa!

Wow. Yeah. Hey, I don't even... Wow. You know what? I've heard a lot, and I've never heard that one before. And so, hey, listen, take yourself out to dinner. It is rare that I hear a new one, and that's a new one. So well done. So we're going to Disney World, and you end up in America.

That's right. And how old are you? I was eight years old. Wow. Okay. So then what? how old are you? And I'm, I was eight years old. Wow. Okay. So, so then what? How old are you now? Okay.

So I'm 27. I'm married. I have two children now and I'm in the process of getting my green card. Okay. But there's just been a lot of, of heartbreak in my family, you know, back home since all this happened. And I don't know how I'm going to face them again without feeling bitter about my parents' decision.

Okay. So walk me through, you spoke about your family and then your parents, understandably mixed emotions with your parents, right? You've got your whole life here and wow talk about a literal left turn right talk about lying to you in a way that is going to take years to work through which which family is weighing on you do you have other family back home that hasn't seen you in 19 years and is still trying to reach out walk me through that well. Well, okay. So, um, when we left, um, I'm from Central America, you know, so when we came to Florida, um, we've stayed in contact mostly, I mean, with both sides of the family, but I was really close to my mom's side of the family, um, because both of my parents were working professionals and they had a really large part in raising me.

So, you know, we talk all the time. And before, you know, Facebook and, you know, video chat was out there, we only talked on the phone. And seriously, once a month, my grandmother would call on the phone crying and begging me to come home. And she would call you as an eight year old? Well, she would she would call my parents, and then my mom would give me the phone, and she would just cry and beg me to come home. And I'm sorry. Hey, let me do a real quick thing, okay? Hang on one quick second, okay? Ellen, I'm having some technical difficulties. I want to make sure that we hear this directly. Okay. Hang on one second. Okay.

All right, go ahead. So your grandmother would call you as an eight year old. Well, she would call my parents and, um, my mom would hand me the phone and I would talk to my grandmother and she would just burst out crying and tell me she wanted, you know, she wanted us to come home. And, um, well, yeah, so it's been like almost 20 years and she's blind now. And she's been, she's in the beginning stages of dementia. Sure.

And so, you know, I'm going back home to see them hopefully really soon. Sure. But she's never going to get to, you know, see my children or my husband. That's hard. Yeah, I can imagine that's hard. You've got some bitterness. Are your parents still alive? Yes, and I love them so much, which is why I'm so torn.

Yeah. I was literally at their house earlier today. They're the best grandparents ever. But one of the things my daddy used to do is he would tell us, okay, we're seriously, we're moving back home next year or this year. He would set a date and he would tell everybody, he would tell us and he would tell our family back home. and then we never moved back, and he would do that seriously, it seemed like every year. So I had to relive this trauma, and now he's still got it in his head that he's going back one day, but I have children now, and I'm like, you can't do this to my kids.

You know, the same thing that you did to me, tear them away from their grandparents. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how can I help you? Man, that's so hard. That's a good question. I don't know. I guess I want to know how do I, you know, when I go back home, how can I enjoy my time with my family there and not dwell on the bitterness I seriously

just like it has been my dream to go back home for so long yeah that like now that it's so close like I don't want it to be tainted by all the stuff that we've lost yeah you know all this time lost so yeah man there's so much conflict there because some of the, I mean, the best things in your life, right? Your husband and your kids are because your parents made that left turn, right? And yet the most powerful and deep trauma in your life is because your parents lied to you and made that left turn, right? And it's hard to navigate that when both the greatest things and the hardest things and the most hurtful things are one in the same, right? Have you ever sat down and told your mom and dad how you feel? Yeah. So, this last year, as I was putting on my paperwork together to send to

immigration, a lot of that stuff started coming back. I had memories come back, and it was very traumatic. But I did, I wrote a letter. I talked to them separately, and I confronted them with that. And my dad admitted that he never, you know, he never even asked my mom. He just told her, hey, we're moving to America. And I understand why they did it. And my dad started a, you know, he was an entrepreneur and we lost everything.

I remember watching our car get towed away, you know, the furniture disappearing and all that stuff. And so we basically became homeless and moved in with my grandparents and aunts and uncles. And so I know why he did it. So he was just going for a better life, right? Just doing, shooting for the moon. Okay. Yeah, he just wanted to do the American dream. Yeah.

And it sounds like he's been successful, right? He's a great granddad. Yeah. And when you told him that, what was his response? Did he, did he weep? Did he hug you? Did he look, was he angry and said, I did the best I could with what I had? What was his response? Um, you know, I was expecting him to be angry, but he wasn't. He, um, he just listened very quietly and he very quietly said, you know, I'm sorry. I sorry i never you know took those things into account how you would feel and um you know he just had this very calm conversation with me my dad's never

been much of a like a touchy-feely guy like i literally have to squeeze hugs out of him yeah sure um but yeah so so it was good it was calm i feel like my mom might have been like a little bit more defensive which is kind of surprising. And the other part I didn't mention is I have a younger brother who was only two when we moved. And now he's 21, and he's never had a license, never had a car, never had an officially paying job because of the situation. And that's also very hard. Absolutely. So is he en route to his green card status as well?

Unfortunately not. He's applying for DACA, which is a protection. And so we haven't heard, like, we're still waiting on that. Okay. And you can't leave. But he's very anxious. You can't leave home until that green card status. You can't leave the United States until the green card status is confirmed, right? Correct.

Because you won't be able to get back in. If I were to leave. Yeah. Yep, that's right. That's right. Yeah. That whole system is such a wreck. And this is the only home your brother's ever known, right?

Yes. Yeah. That's a whole other show. So here's the thing. What I'm going to tell you is going to be hard, hard, hard, okay? And I want you... Do you trust me? How about that?

Do you trust me? Yes, sir. Okay. Don't say sir. You make me feel like an old person. Yes, young person. Yes, I love it. All right.

Elena, here's what I want you to do. Set it down and move on. Here's why. You've told your parents you did a brave thing. And most, I won't say most, some of our listeners won't even understand culturally what a big deal it is for a Latinx family, for the daughter to step up to dad, right? What you did was a brave thing and a hard thing, and you did it. And your dad said, I'm sorry. I didn't take you into account.

I had lost everything. I moved in with my parents, and I just had to get out of there. And I made some mistakes when you were young. I tore you away from everything I knew, and I'm sorry. And your mom's got to defend dad. That's her job, right? But here's the thing. It doesn't minimize your hurt.

It doesn't minimize the trauma. What it is going to do is lighten your load. It's going to make the next step and the next step lighter it doesn't mean that this doesn't hurt when you go back and see your family right man you're going to hug like you haven't hugged

and you're going to cry like you haven't cried and you're going to see people and they're going to be old and wrinkly or beautiful and are all three. And I know your grandmother is blind, but she is going to hug you in a way that you know she'll be able to see into your soul and she will run her fingers all over your kids' faces. It will be a different reunion, but it won't be a bad one. It'll be a beautiful one, right? And you've imagined this day for 20 years, right?

Yeah. Okay, here's the thing. The more bricks you carry into this, the heavier you're going to be, not them. You were eight. Okay. This wasn't your fault. It really wasn't fair for your grandma to say, hey, come home, because you were eight, right? But also, she was hurting, too, because she lost everything, right?

And so when I look back on adults, I don't want to minimize what they did that hurt real, real bad. And I also want, in that same, in my right hand, I'm going to hold, man, they hurt us real bad. And in the left hand, they were doing everything they could. They knew to do with the tools they had in their toolkit to help me and my little brother and our family be okay. Right? Yeah. And in that same way, your kids, your husband are a result of that thing, and so is your biggest pain. It's both end.

And when you enter into a both end situation, what I want to always remind myself to do is I want to put that stuff down. Because caring, it won't make your dad feel any worse. It won't make your trauma feel any less. It won't make the hugs to your grandma any easier. It only weighs you down. And so here's how you're going to practice this. And I want you to remember that word practice. When you get closer to this time when you're going to leave,

you're going to get that car to the mail. It's going to be extraordinary. You're going to get ready to leave. And, man, your heart is going to leave you're going to get that car to the mail it's going to it's going to be extraordinary you're going to get ready to leave and man your heart is going to race you're going to have all kinds of fantasies and imaginations about what this thing's going to be none of them are going to be right it's going to be totally different whenever you get there and you're also going to be so excited with your dad and your mom and angry and frustrated and all of that together, right? I want you to say, I want you to exhale. And I want you to say this.

My dad did the best he could with what he had. And he loves me and my kids now. My dad did the best he could with what he had. And he loves me and my kids now. And sometimes you're going to have to say that on repeat. You have to say that on repeat. You're going to have to say that on repeat you say that on repeat you're gonna say that on repeat but we're not looking to punish somebody who can't it can't be punished we're not trying to get answers that we don't have answers to you know the answers right we're trying to set our bricks down he did the best he could with the tools he had

man he screwed up he shouldn't have lied no one should lie to an eight-year-old like that. No one should rip people out. Immigration's hard. Running for your life is hard. Running towards a new life is hard. Oh, my gosh. I just can't even wrap my head around it, man, how hard that must be to look at your situation and say, I don't know where we're going, but it's not as bad as here.

I'm going to take my kids, and, man, we're going, but it's not as bad as here. I'm going to take my kids and man, we're going for it. Right? So, so hard. I'm so grateful for your call. And here's the thing. I can hear your heart through the phone line. I can hear it. I can hear what a great mother you are. I can hear what a great wife you are. I can hear what a great daughter you are. And I can also hear what a strong, bold woman that you are. All of those things, both end. They're all there together. You told your dad what you felt, how you felt. You wrote him a letter. He said, I'm sorry. I didn't take that into account. I should have done that differently. And now we're all going to move on. Now we're going to take the next step forward,

the lighter load and a lighter load and a lighter load. Instead of regretting where you're headed, you are going to hold on to that day that you get to hug grandma, hug your extended family, your cousins, your aunts, uncles, everybody. That one Tia Loca, you're going to

get to hug her so hard, right? You can't wait. I can't wait to call me back after the visit. I can't, I want to hear how all of it went. Ah, thank you so much for that call. All right, let's go to Crystal in Palmer, Alaska. Crystal, what's going on? Hey, it's good. How are you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. Fantastic. So what's going on? How can I help? Yeah, so I have a 15-year-old son who often steals from us and his younger siblings. And I'm just looking for advice on how to stop that behavior. All right.

So tell me what that looks like. It's kind of been a long-term thing. But the latest thing that happened is that my younger children's tithing money went missing. It was over $100. He denied it, so I backed him up. And then I was cleaning his room a couple weeks later, and I found the empty envelope. Yeah. Yikes.

So what happened next? So my husband works out of town, so I was was kind of just gonna let him deal with it um but i i basically ended up telling him i had found them found it um he denied taking the bigger chunk of money and said at first that he just took the daughter my daughter's money which was ten dollars but then i showed him that I had the envelope. So he didn't take any personal responsibility. And then I don't know if it was the right thing to do or not, but we basically made them pay back him. He paid them back double so that they could pay their tithing. And then. So he had to come up with 200 bucks? Yeah. Where did he get the other hundred bucks he works okay so he has money the reason we kind of

doubled it was because we've had him pay us back for things that he's taken before and then i kind of feel like in his mind it's like he bought it ah okay versus like i took something that i shouldn't have taken if that makes sense you said this has been happening for a long time. When did he start stealing from you guys? I mean, I'm sure he didn't do it when he was a toddler, but I basically remember this happening his entire life. We're always finding our things in his room. He always takes things from us and takes them apart, and he doesn't

see anything wrong with that. So, what, hmm. So, the question I always ask in these situations is, based on one sentiment, is that behavior is a language. Okay. So, if, with that in mind, if you know your son better than anybody, what is your son trying to tell the people in his, in his ecosystem, in his world? What's he trying to tell them? Um, things don't matter. He wants desperately to be seen there is tension among parents and he's trying to say hey look over here the rules don't matter and there's almost a pathology he doesn't understand

consequences um yeah what is there's chaos in the home and that he's making sense of chaos by grabbing what he can't like what is what is his behavior what is he trying to tell people um the only thing i can think of is that my husband works out of town two weeks on two weeks off okay how long has he done that for 13 years okay so for most of his life yeah and so i i mean he i don't know if it's just that he always acts like he's an adult even though he's not an adult like he he views himself as like our equal um do y'all treat him like he's your equal or let me let me say it this way do you do you use him as a friend when your husband's gone do you use him as quote unquote the man of the house the um the guy who picks up the slack when dad's gone has he been put into a grown-up role that's a good question um i, I'll have him do more of the physical jobs that need to be done. Sure. Because I do need the help. Yeah. Less that less those. Is there a sense that he has, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing, so don't hear me blaming. I'm just trying to get some information. Right, right. But is, is he viewed in that role? All right. You're the man of the house while I'm gone. I need you to really step up.

Hey, there's somebody knocking on the door. I need you to go take care of that. I need you to take care of your brothers and sisters. You're the only guy around here, so you've got to deal with the, you know, I don't know, snowmobile. I don't think so. Okay. So where does he get this? Where does he get that sense from?

I'm really not sure okay just kind of always had the the personality of of that i mean he's always been talked back um i'm not sure so i'm sure that's not any help well it's good info so um what what have you tried over the years to curb his his stealing um we've tried talking to him we've tried making him you know buy the thing that he destroyed and give it back to the person um we've tried taking away privileges um but with the privileges it's always like oh that doesn't matter that doesn't that, that doesn't affect me. I'll just, I'll just do something else. Okay. Yeah. So, but I, I mean, the only other thing I can think of is like, I'm often, I don't know. I'm just often stressed out because I've got three other kids. Sure. And he causes a lot of stress. Yeah.

The stuff that he's doing. So I don't know if it's just maybe the stress and that he knows that we're unhappy with him. And so he's just doing more of it. I'm going to ask you something crazy. When's the last time just you and him went out? And you looked him in the eye and said, hey, tell me about what's going on in your world. You got any girlfriends? All right.

How's school going? I haven't gone out with him much, one-on-one. He did go out with his dad, and they went camping, and he was just like, he was great. He didn't have any issues there was no problems he wasn't disrespectful okay yeah so what you've done restitution grounding him um making him pay double right right? The next move is like physical, right? It just escalates in those ways. Sometimes kids respond to that. Often they don't, right?

And so I may be way out to lunch here. Two things. One, there's something you're not telling me and that's okay. There is some sort of tension in that home that he is absorbing and whether that's 13 years of two weeks on two weeks off or of just the chaos of having two is you have two younger siblings three three young so there's four in the house yeah okay whether that is he is desperate for money because um he's caught up in things he shouldn't be caught up in whatever that looks like there's a disconnect between two things one his value and role

his participation in this home okay he has had to take it upon himself to be the big bad dude and the big bad dude can do whatever the big bad dude wants to do, including take stuff. I got money. Double it. I don't care. Yeah. Or I'm just going to take this from you. Okay.

So? Right? He sounds like somebody who's a political, the other political party won. They're like, yeah, we'll show you. Right? He just sounds like that. Right? And the other thing is, is he is not see himself as a participating

member of this family unit right? so there's not a common set of values that everybody's buying into here and here's the thing I'm not getting into the he's never felt the pain of what happens when you are

one of the four pillars holding this house up and you just, you opt out and the house falls over, right? He doesn't, that's, he's disconnected from that. He doesn't feel the pain of not participating, right? So he just kind of can do whatever he wants to. My guess is I can't imagine how loud and exhausting, especially when it gets dark for seasons. I can't imagine anything other than if the 15-year-old's quiet, things are okay. Because the other three are setting things on fire, right? And then there becomes this feedback loop. And he's not even going to think this intentionally.

Of, I am just floating out here. I am Pluto. I may not even be a planet anymore, and I'm going to circle back. And whether it's negative attention, positive attention, loud attention, I'm bigger than the rules. I'm bigger than this family system. I got three more years until I'm out of here. I'm stuck out here, and no one even cares anyway, which is a 15-year-old saying, hey, somebody look at me.

Right? And I'm not saying to hey, somebody look at me. Right? And I'm not saying to let him get away with anything. In fact, the opposite. Here's where I would start if I'm you. And I want to start with this. I'll start with this. This is me being vulnerable. As a kid, I was an awful thief.

I stole baseball cards. Dude, I was such a punk. I didn't break into stores or anything. Dude, I was such a punk. I didn't break into stores or anything. Dude, I was just a jerk. I was a jerk. And I don't think I was a bad guy, right? Right. Now, we could deconstruct my whole life.

That's not the point. But I want to tell you is this. He can and I think he will grow up. I think he can. Man, you talk about I didn't get mad at my students very often, but I grew to where I had no holds barred for theft because it was so divisive in communities. And I had to learn that and had some people be very candid with me, right?

And really I had to feel the weight of what happens when I become part of the reason a community or a value system falls apart. So here's what I want you to do. Number one, I want you to find some childcare, and I want you to take him out on a date, just y'all two. Okay. And I want you to probably write down some questions, and I want you to tell him. This is going to be weird, but we're going on a date, just me and you.

He's going to be like, oh, mom. And you tell him, nope, there is no discussion, no nothing. And I want you to start the date by telling him, I haven't told you this in a long time and I'm sorry. I absolutely am crazy about you and I love you.

And you are the big brother in this house and I'm so glad you're the big brother in this house. I'm so so glad you're the big brother in this house. I'm so glad you're my first son. I'm so grateful for you. And I haven't asked you about your girlfriends. I haven't asked you about sports. I haven't asked you about schools or robots or painting,

whatever he's into. And I want you to force him into a conversation about himself over a meal. And then here's part two. And hey, some of that is going to be awkward because this is new and he's going to think this is a setup. And you can tell him, hey, listen, I can outweigh you. I dream of silent moments. And so I'll sit here silently for this whole dinner

and just stare at your beautiful, beautiful face. Okay. But tell me what's going on. And you can tell them this. If you don't want to tell me about who you're interested in, I'm going to tell you about how I fell in love with your dad and how we used to make out on dates. I mean, you can get them to talk, right? Right. The second part is I want you to tell them that you are going to create a value system for the home.

And it needs everybody's input. So one of the things we have at our house that we got the kids involved with, me and my wife did, is we sat down and got everybody on the table and we talked about not what the rules are of the Deloney house. We don't hit, we don't steal. No, we did something a little bit deeper than that. We talked about who the Deloneys are. We are people who say yes. We are people of hospitality. We always have people over at our house, people trying to work on their marriage, people who are just our friends, people who are goofy or silly or loud and vote different than us. We have a cadre of wackadoos staying at our house, right?

We had a group of people tent out in our front yard last night. It was awesome. And so we always have people over. We are people of adventure. And then we get into, we are people who treat others with respect and dignity. And so when my daughter or my son hit somebody, take something, we always circle back to, hey, here's the family values that we all opted into. And you chose to opt out. And man, I love having you here. And I hate that you opted out. Here's the consequences of that, right? You are a part of this system and we need you here.

And I see you, my son. I see you. I want you to start touching him regularly and tell him, I'm going to touch your face every day. And I'm going to look in your eyes because you're beautiful. And this is going to be so weird. And I want you to do it. And it's going to help both of you.

And he's going to freak out. I also want you to tell him there is no more theft in our home. Okay. There is nothing more divisive than stealing in this house. And you will feel significant consequences when that happens. Okay. I don't know what that looks like in your house, but it has to be very strong. Not that you're coming in as the warrior mom, but it's because he opted out of this set of values that you all agreed on.

Right. In our home or this. But it's because he opted out of this set of values that you all agreed on. Right? In our home or this. If you can do it when your husband's home too, even better. Even awesome. And I know this sounds counterintuitive. And there's going to be people who get in the internets and the comments and say, you know what he needs? He needs a spanking. He needs to have all this.

And we're taking it. This kid needs to feel like he's got value. He needs to look like he is seen he needs to understand that mom loves loves loves him his brothers and sisters need him that his dad loves loves loves him and that a value in this home is you do not steal you do not take from those from from anybody ever. And the response will be swift. It may be worth, I'll tell you this, my dad, my granddad was one of the nicest men who ever lived. Kind, nice man. And my dad took me down to my granddad's house one day and I had to go sit in the garage in Houston and talk to my granddad about lying.

I remember that conversation to this day because my granddad looked at me, an old, wise man, and said, Delonys, don't lie. We tell the truth. And I remember that conversation to this day. And it may mean that you've got to get somebody from your local school or local community where you work who has been to jail, has had run-ins with the law, someone who can sit down with your son. Not in the scare them straight, not that kind of way. But who can say, hey, man, as a society, we've all said we don't steal. The more you opt into this, man, the consequences are going to get bigger and bigger and bigger.

Don't go to jail, man. You got money. I don't think the theft is because he needs it for drugs. I don't think the theft is because he needs it. He's embarrassed. I think he's walking through life because the rules don't apply to him. And I think he's walking through life like he's bigger than the rules. It's cool. I'll just take it. It's fun. And he's got to get plugged into a system that counts on him. And what I'll tell you, Crystal, is that changed me. That changed me.

Those hard conversations changed me. Those value plug-ins changed me. And a group of people that held me accountable, really uncomfortably so, changed me. Thank you so, so much for that call. Hey, listen, I get this email a lot, so I'm going to take a minute here. I get an email about how to find a therapist.

I get email a lot. What makes a good therapist? I've been in therapy and it's stupid. It's dumb. Here's a good email from Allison. She writes, I've been seeing a therapist since March of 2020. I don't know if she's making an impact on my life as of today. I feel like I'm paying for a that out, and here's a couple of things here. Number one, well, let's just answer the directly.

A good therapist is not your friend. They are not your friend. They are a teacher. They are someone who is walking alongside you, right? So a therapist is not your friend. They should not be condescending or unrelatable, and they should rarely, rarely give you advice. That's not their job. Their job is to hold the mirror up. Their job is to say, you say this, but here's how you're living. You want to be free, but here's how you spend your money. You want to have great relationships. Here's how you choose to fill in the blank, right? Their job is to listen deeply, to reflect, to teach you how to connect the dots across relationships and events and consequences. A therapist is not a mystic or a

healer or a predictor of the future, right? As I said earlier, a therapist is not your friend. They're not your buddy. They're not your future romantic partner. They're not someone to try to win over. They're someone to be honest with, right? Their job is to teach you how to be a good friend or how to be a good romantic partner. I started seeing a counselor recently here in Nashville. And within 45 minutes, man, I thought we were going to get in a fistfight. He said some things like, hey, here's what you've told me about X, Y, and Z. And I looked at him and thought, you better not say that again. And then he smiled and said, ah, what is that? Is that sadness or anger? And I was like, ooh, you got me.

Well played. Well played, homie. And we had a good exchange. He's not my friend, right? He's just simply reflecting back to me things that I was saying that I hadn't put the dots together on. And I put together dots for a living, right? A good therapist will challenge you.

Therapy should be uncomfortable if it's done right. A counselor should not always be neutral. They should tell you the truth when you are wrong. That's been a big thing in the counseling profession. You know, never take sides. I think that's nonsense, man. I really side with Terry Real on this one. Sometimes you got to take sides.

Sometimes you got to look at someone and say, this behavior is childish. This behavior is hurting the people you love. This behavior is not getting you what you said you wanted to get, right? It's their job to point you in a new direction you haven't considered or challenges you're avoiding, right? And as I've said throughout this little rant here, a good therapist reflects you to yourself. They hold up a mirror. They show you how people experience you in the world, right? So here's a good example. Session two, session three, the counselor might find themselves getting really bored. A good counselor will lean in and be bold and say, the people in your world call you boring. Do they experience you as Eeyore, as kind of slow It's like, do they often check their watch or their phone when you're

talking? What they are teaching you is here is how the world experiences you, right? When the therapist feels bored, it might sound harsh, right? But when they reflect their experience and shares the truth gently, it's one of the most loving things they can do for you because we live in a culture where people don't tell the truth or when they do, they weaponize it and they don't say, hey, I'm struggling to stay connected with you. Is this how other people experience you? Have people told you that before? No. In the real world, they say, God, you're boring, dude. I don't want to hang out. Or they lie to you as to why they don't invite you to things, right? If you truly want to develop skills of connection, you got to be able to accept this honest feedback, right? So that's what a therapist does.

And so no, if you've been, Allison, if you've been in therapy since March, 2020, and your therapist isn't challenging you to work towards goals that you've established, if they aren't challenging you to see the world differently, to develop new skills, to teach you new ways of interacting with yourself and other people, yeah, man, it's time for you to move on. If you leave counseling and think, ah, I'm just chatting with my friend, man, you are wasting $150, right? Or whatever it costs, right?

$5,000 or $50 or whatever it happens to be. And therapists, don't do that. Don't just take people's money. The backlogs are too big. There's too many people who need help. If people are doing well and you're just at the chatting stage, let them go. Let them go. If you need to find a therapist, ask people you trust, check with your insurance for an in-network provider. Think about what kind of therapist you're going to need, right? You're going to be more comfortable meeting with a man or woman. Do you want online telehealth appointments or in-person? I'm super biased about in-person if at all possible, right? Do they have to have spiritual beliefs that you share or worldview beliefs?

Does it need to be somebody who specializes in grief or marriage or parenting or aging trauma? Whatever it is, think about what you're looking for. Ask people you trust. Check with your insurance provider. Check online or look into local resources. And there's everything from graduate school, university programs. I was an intern, right? And I saw people for free.

I was at a family counseling that had sliding scale for folks who couldn't afford high dollar stuff And then there's cash pay, right? If you are blessed and you've got the money you can pay for cash pay go get it Whatever you need to do and then ask your potential therapist a few questions. Do you accept my insurance? Can you help me with my particular challenges? Will we commit to this relationship for a few months or for longer and here's a big one Don't give up after the first session. It should be awkward and weird, right?

I left my first session the other day fired up, and I can't wait to go back because I know that challenge is good. It's like going to the gym and getting a personal trainer, and that first session makes you sore the next day, and you're like, I'm never working out again. No, you're supposed to, right? If you haven't been to the gym in a while, it's supposed to be uncomfortable No, you're supposed to, right? If you haven't been to the gym in a while, it's supposed to be uncomfortable. It's supposed to be, right? So if you are

struggling and you need somebody, please be bold and brave and go talk to somebody, right? Go a couple of sessions before you bail out. And for God's sakes, man, prepare to be challenged. It's good. It's good to be challenged. It's hard, but it's good. All right, let's go to James in Chicago. James, what's up? How can I help? Hey, Dr. John. How's it going?

Good, brother. How are you? I'm doing great. Good. What's up, man? How can I help? So my question is, my wife and I,

we have a three-year-old and a one-year-old. The three-year-old grew, one-year-old boy, and they're both embryo adoptions. My wife was able to carry them, but they really don't have anything to do with us. So my question is— Hey, hold on, hold on.

Hold on. They have everything to do with y'all. Okay, I do get that. I just don't know. I'm going to get some proper way to say it. I just want to make sure I got my point across. Okay, yeah, you got it. You got it.

They're not your, is it? Biological. Is it your sperm or is it fertilized eggs? Neither of us. Okay, gotcha. Okay. So you adopted fertilized embryos and then you got two kids. There you go.

Yes. She carried them, but we just got embryos from the hospital. Okay. Very cool. So my question is, we have every intention of telling them, but we need to know age appropriate, maybe some unique ways. I've heard of maybe possible books that help with that, like kids' books even. Sure. But we need help along the way of when and how and not to make it seem

awkward you know yeah you bet you man thank you so much for having that heart good for you um how you just told me the ages and i missed them three and one is that right that is correct okay so with your three-year-old and it happens way quicker than you think it's going to, man, because I was super caught off guard. They will begin exploring their own bodies and whatever words you guys use to decide to call body parts and things, right? One of those important goals for every parent is to not make any part of a human body feel weird, right? Or feel shameful or feel right. And so I'm backing I'm backing away, but I'm going to get to your question here. Um, for my grad students, we used to make

all the grad students had to say in unison, right? You have to say vagina out loud. You have to say penis. If you can't say that you can't be a therapist, right? You can't say body parts. You can't be there. If you can't say body parts, you can't be a parent. That should be a rule, right? And we've got generations of kids who were ashamed of their body parts, right? It led to all kinds of stuff. So that's number one. Your three-year-old is probably already there asking questions. They will become four and five and six. During this time, they're going to ask natural questions. Where do babies come from? Where do I come from? That's when you can, in an age appropriate way, with all of the joy and miracle and excitement you guys can muster, there are eggs inside of the girl body, right? And then they have sperm in the

boy body and they meet together and then they make a baby. And we didn't even, we weren't able to have those in our body. So we got some from somebody else. And so we had them put into our body, right? So it's very, very natural. They will not carry the baggage that you guys feel. They'll just go, huh? Oh, right. And so think about this. When you were a kid, well, I don't know how old, how old are you? 39. Okay, sweet. So you're 39. So we're in the same boat here.

Trying to explain to us when we were five what an iPad is would have sounded like the Jetsons, right? My kids just, it was there when they were born. And the idea that they're carrying around this half, like three centimeter piece of metal and glass that they can talk to people on the other side of the world and see their faces is not a, they don't carry that. Almost every time I look at an iPad, I'm like, this is insane, right? So they won't carry that same baggage as they get older right seven eight nine ten they will ask deeper questions and that's when you can be more open about hey here's how mommy's body worked here's how daddy's body worked here's some of the medical challenges we have and here's what was so neat and like another family where it's willing to share you with us and you're our baby and you can

show them where babies come from and the pregnancy pictures and all of that miraculous stuff. And it will be like a, whoa, as your kid gets to be 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, that's when they'll start asking questions about, hey, do you think my biological parents exist, right? Are they out there? Do you have contact with them? Do you know who they are? We have names and information, but as of right now, as we heard, they didn't want contacted or reached out to.

Okay. So what I expect, what we've seen over the last five to ten years, James, and what I expect us to accelerate is with 23andMe, with the internet basically, man, there's very few quote-unquote closed adoptions anymore. Kids want to know where they're from, and they want to know who they're from. And now that we've got genetic stuff for medical things, they want to know what might I expect down the road, medically speaking. There's all kinds of things there, right? And so I would expect that. And by time you get to those conversations, hopefully you will have an openness in your house where your kids will come to you for things. They know you will never shy away from a hard conversation, whether it's a body part conversation or a sex conversation or a racism or politics conversation, whatever that looks like. You are always going to be a safe space that honors them when they ask questions, right?

And it never makes them feel dumb. Then when you get to that 12 and 13 and 14 and 15 and they can understand science a little bit more, when they can start to understand heritage, where am I from, legacy, those kind of things, you can honestly and openly discuss that with them. And if you don't feel comfortable, there are professional counselors who, that's their job, is to have those type of conversations and bridge those gaps. As you mentioned, there are some great children's literature out there. You can just look on Amazon to find some great children's books that will walk through these magical, it gives kids a picture in their mind so they can see it and go, wow, that's me, right? And it will make them feel a part of something when they see somebody like them in a book, right?

That's why inclusion in children's literature is so important when a kid can see themselves in a book. It just feels like that kid looks like me. They have hair like me. They have skin like me. They have a face like me in very much like your situation, right? They got to take a ride and put into mommy's tummy and mommy had a big, big tummy. And then I was born just like, right? And they become part of a narrative they can see and experience here's the other thing i don't ever ever ever want you to ever ever ever say anything other than i'm your dad

and your mom's your mom is that cool yeah i don't ever ever ever want you to feel anything less than their mom or their dad because you are have you carried around stuff in your heart for a while about that yeah it's yeah kind of difficult and and here we're we're trying to have another kid however god seems deep that's or if he does and one thing we're going through we try to get back in the same program they told us it's not likely we've heard stories of people saying you know after their wives carried a couple sometimes things work out and you have your own and so yeah we're i think we're still kind of dealing with that in some areas you know we had an incident a couple months ago where she kind of had some things that she thought might have been a pregnancy but it ended up being something different so we were kind of getting excited and you know dealing with the whole it didn't

happen again type thing so So I don't know. It's still some more in there. James, are you all staying connected through this? Yeah. Yeah, we do pretty well. Okay, here's what I want to tell you. And I'm looking directly into the camera here. I know you can't see me, but I've been down this road, and me and my wife experienced the pain of infertility, the challenges with those things very, very differently.

And we both thought we were pretty close. And then come to find out, whoa, we were experiencing these things way, way differently. And if you just went through yet another loss, and I'm not talking about loss of a pregnancy, I'm talking about loss of hope, right? That begins to weigh on your heart, that weighs on her heart, and it just weighs differently. So I want you guys to make sure you are hyper, hyper proactive about your relationship, how you communicate to one another, how you love one another, and how you give each other space to grieve whatever that looks like for each other. This can be something that binds you guys together, but it can be devastating for a couple. And I'm just talking.

I've been there. Yeah. And most importantly, if you want to set that three-year-old beautiful little baby and that one-year-old little baby, those miracles, which is what they are, what they have done is just unfathomable. Oh, yeah, for sure. Listen, those are your kids, right? And the best thing you can do for those kids is be intertwined

and connected at the soul level with their mom. Okay? Yeah. That's number one. Number two is never think of yourself any less. They're not a step away from you. They are every bit of part of your soul, brother. And you did a brave, brave, bold thing by going through the adoption process, by going through the embryo adoption process, which comes with risk and it comes with hope.

And there's nothing more intoxicating in this season than hope. And there's nothing more devastating than hope, right? You are their dad. They're your kids and they will be forever. And your wife is a mom. She carried him to term. She's got two little babies and they are your kids. You're a dad, brother. Let that sink in. Put all that shame all that hey yeah but but there is no buts you're a dad my man and start today creating a home where your kids feelings count where their questions count where they see you and your wife having hard conversations together they see y'all hugging together they see y'all um dealing with hard things together model those conversations and then you're going to create kids

that when the hard conversations come, and they will, it's part of it. They're not going to go running to the hills. They're not going to go running to the internet. They're going to go running to the two safest people they know in the world. And that's James, that's you and your wife. I love your heart, brother.

Thank you so, so much, man. All right, so as we wrap up today's show um man i don't know if i can make it through this song today i'm just gonna cut to it this is a a magic song that i hold close to my heart and has been for a long long time from edie brakel the new bohemians from years ago for off the album Rubber Band at the Stars. It's called Circle. It says, Me, I'm a part of a circle of friends

and we, we notice you don't come around and me, I think it all depends on you touching ground with us. But I quit. I give up. Nothing's good enough for anybody else it seems. And I quit.

I give up. Nothing's good enough for anybody else. And being alone is the best way to be when I'm by myself, it's the best way to be. When I'm all alone, it's the best way to be. And when I'm by myself, nobody else can say goodbye. Everything is temporary anyway when the streets are wet and the colors slip into the sky. But I don't know why that means you and I are. That means you and I quit. I give up. And me, I'm a part of your circle of friends,

and we notice you don't come around. If you've got friends in your life, hug them close. Everything's temporary. Hug them close. This is The Dr. John Deloney Show. Bye.