The Dr. John Delony Show - Communication Is Not Connection: An Invitation to Digital Detox

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that gives you real talk on life, relationships and mental health challenges. Through humor, grace and grit, John gives you the tools you need to cut through the chaos of anxiety, depression and disconnection. You can own your present and change your future—and it starts now. So send us your questions at johndelony.com/show or leave a voicemail at 844-693-3291. We want to talk to YOU! Show Notes for this Episode 4:25: My brother has drug issues, how do I set boundaries with him since we just had a baby? 19:12: Teaching Segment: Social Media Digital Detox 29:24: 17 year has had 2 pregnancy scares in 3 years. I am always suspicious of her. How can I trust her? 47:28: Lyrics of the Day: "Bizarre Love Triangle" - New Order These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we're going to be talking about adult themes, so watch out for the little ears in the room. We're going to be talking about social media, technology, and my 10-month adventure using the social media platforms. We're also going to be talking to a new dad, trying to figure out how to set boundaries for him and his family and his little one. And we're going to talk to a mom of a 17-year-old girl who's trying to make sure she stays connected before her daughter leaves home.

Stay tuned. Heyo, this is John, and this is the Dr. John Deloney Show. It's a live show where we take your calls about your hearts, your messes, your good stuff, your bad stuff, your happiness, your sadness, all of it. We're all learning how to be human beings again. Some of you don't like your neighbor. Some of you don't like people on the other side of the country. Some of you don't like people on the other side of the country. Some of you don't like people on the other side of the social medias, and we're cutting through all that nonsense,

and we're getting down to the things that connect us as human beings, as people all on the same team, all who are probably pretty smart. All of us have experiences and loves and hurts, and we're all figuring out how to come together. We talk about everything on the show, family issues, mental health issues, relational IQ, love, loss. And we also highlight what's going right. Things that are good. Things that are good. I received this email. It's so good from Judith Lee. And here's what Judith writes. I'm an emergency room nurse who has worked all through the pandemic in a crazy environment.

She also teaches future nurses as an adjunct faculty member. She's 54 years old, and she says, I stay exhausted most of the time. But the email's not about me, she writes. My husband Tommy and I have been married for 28 years. Some good, some not good. But I want to give a shout out to my awesome husband. Starting in March of this year, she started working the 7 p.m. to 3 a.m. shift.

54 years old, the overnight shift. And her husband goes to bed and wakes up at 3.30 a.m. to meet me downstairs with my robe and slippers, and he puts my scrubs in the washer. He does most of the cooking, the grocery shopping, the laundry. He's become a better cook than me. He's also a loving son, helping his mom and my mom whenever they need something. And he's also been sharing his passion of lacrosse and football coaching

in the community for the last 15 years. But this isn't just about tasks he performs. It's what this means to me. And he supports me. And he loves my family. He's always there for our two boys, both living at home during this pandemic mess. And this time has proven that he is supportive,

protective, and loving. The world is a better place because of his contributions. Tommy, my brother brother we salute you judith an absolute gangster working the night shift in the middle of a pandemic as an emergency room nurse we salute you and most importantly i want to thank you both for showing us that the nightly news isn't all the news there is. In fact, there are stories over and over and over again. About husbands setting their alarms. Rolling over when it comes on at 3.30 in the morning. Knowing that his exhausted wife is going to come stumbling into the door.

Not that he's got a job to do. Not that he's got some tasks to perform. But he's got somebody he can love And love deeply By being there to catch her When she falls through that front door That he can be there to Help provide food He's still working his full time job

It's not like he's not tired But he's there Guys who lean into connection Ladies who lean into connection I ladies who lean into connection, I salute you. Thank you so much. We talk about all of it on this show. All right, so give me a call.

1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. Shoot me an email at askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com. That's askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com. And let's go straight to the phones. Let's go to Eric in Phoenix, Arizona. Eric, you've been waiting a long time, good man. Thank you so much for hanging out. What's going on? Hey, Josh John. So my wife and I just had a baby a couple months ago. Congratulations. And my brother, thanks. My brother wants to come visit us for Thanksgiving, but he's had a history of some drug issues,

and so we're having trouble deciding whether we enforce a boundary or maybe don't enforce a boundary and try to save the relationship. Okay. Tell me about the drug issues first. So it's mostly marijuana that we know of, but a lot of this is secondhand, right? So we don't know everything he's doing. We just know that it's been going on for five or six years, and it's just hard to talk about it. He never wants to talk about it when I try to bring it up. It always kind of gets heated.

When you say it gets heated, it kind of gets heated what does that mean well we have different opinions about like you know you could say politically about whether marijuana is good or not sure um but we like i've seen how it just it doesn't help him much it does and maybe he just uses too much of it you know and so you know if we ever so we just avoid that subject but he knows that we've got this boundary that, hey, you need to pass a clean drug test if you want to come see your nephew. And we're at the point where we're not sure if he's going to pass it. Are you guys giving him the drug test? Is he on probation or something? The plan was to have my parents.

Yeah, so my parents have been giving him drug tests. And so they were going to give it to him before he came out with them because he's still living at home right now. Why are been giving him drug tests. And so they were going to give it to him before he came out like with them. Cause he's still living at home right now. Why are they giving him drug tests? Well, they've set boundaries for him too, saying, if you don't pass a drug test, you know, you're kicked out of the house, you know, and they've done that a couple of times, but they always let him back in. And so that's not the other hard thing is we, we want to set a sperm boundary because we feel like he's never had that. So it sounds like there's two issues here. One is you are feeling like you need to lean in and become the parent that your parents are not being for your brother.

That's number one. Number two is you are trying to determine whether there's a safety issue with your new child. Is that fair? Right. Well, yeah. And honestly, it's not a safety issue so much with him. Like, I don't believe he's going to be dangerous or violent or anything. We just, but we want to, we want to stick true to our word because we want that to mean something too, you know? Yeah. We don't want to say we're going to do something

and then don't do it. I get that. And so when you say you gave this word, right, you put something, you drew a line, here's my values, which you're allowed to have your values And we reminded him again during the pregnancy. And that was just over text message, but he was like, yep, okay. And it's been weird because he's been talking more. He doesn't talk to me directly about it. He always, I hear stuff secondhand through my parents. Yeah. So how old are you, man?

How old are you? I'm 25. Okay. How old is he? 22. Okay. How old is he? 22. Okay. So it's time for you to be a grownup. And I'm not saying that, I'm not making fun of you.

I'm just saying there's, you're about to level up now. Okay. You're a dad, you're a husband, you're in it now. Okay. And there's these moments when young men level up, young women do it too, but I'm just talking to you right now. So you're going to level up. Young women do it too, but I'm just talking to you right now. So you're going to level up. And that means you are absolutely 100% through having any sort of meaningful conversation whatsoever

to anybody in your life on text message. Cool? Text message can be about what time are y'all showing up tonight? Hey, my flight got delayed. I'll be there at six. That stuff's cool. But when you're going to lay down value statements,

like you cannot see this baby, if you are not passing a drug test, that's a in-person conversation. And if he doesn't want to have it, you can tell him I've got some stuff that I need to talk to you about my new baby and my small family. And when you're ready to be a grownup and have that conversation, give me a call. Okay?

And he's going to have to level up too. But number one, this is not a conversation for text message. Number two, I want you and your wife to sit down and make some clear, like what is the purpose of this value? This value judgment? Like I said, do you think that somebody smoking weed or who smoked weed a few days ago, who's going to come and then see their new nephew or their new niece is going to harm the child or hurt the child? If that's what you think and believe and you've got some wisdom, I've never seen that. But I also know that everybody's different. OK, if that's what you're if you were the safety of your baby, that's a no-quarter thing.

Nobody gets a vote on the safety of your kid. You draw hard boundaries to where you think they should be, and you hold firm to them. If a year ago you were leaning into trying to support your parents and saying, yeah, and not only you're not going to get to live with mom and dad, but you're not going to be able to see your new niece. And you sent that via text message. I'm going to tell you, you've got full permission to circle back to your brother, have a grownup brother to brother conversation about, man, how are you doing? And we're getting ready to be in the holidays. Mom and dad have asked you to quit smoking. And they have said, this is part of their rules this is part of their rules for you to live in their house. You keep failing them.

What's going on, bro? Because you cannot bring drugs into my house. You can't because whatever state we live in, they're illegal. I don't want them here. It's my house. I get to make that rule. What I don't want you to do, man, Eric, is I don't want you to use your kid for ransom for your brother. I don't want you to use a powerful relationship between nephew or niece and an uncle as a behavior manipulation tool,

because that's never going to work. It's not going to help him get sober, and it's not going to help you feel better. And so it sounds like there's something deeper here. If I'm leaning into it, it sounds like you are frustrated with your parents, you're frustrated with your brother, and you are trying to take this on. Is that fair or am I out to lunch on that? Yeah, I mean, there's a piece of it that's very true there. I think the other part of the boundary that we set was also for my wife's brothers. There's a couple, one in particular, that has probably some more serious drug issues that would be more of a safety concern. And so I think that we're trying to set a boundary. We're saying, hey, we're enforcing this fairly on both sides. Relationships aren't fair.

Relationships aren't fair. Relationships aren't fair. And don't feel that pressure. Right? If one has a conviction for selling cocaine and the other is just out of being a teenager and got in trouble for smoking marijuana, those are two different planets as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. And it does make it easier on you guys just to do a blanket, you know, big square fence around the house. And again, if these are your values, dude, go for it. There is not going to be an easy way to enforce these boundaries.

And what I mean by easy, there's not going to be a way that people don't walk away from your fence that you build with their hearts broken. That's life. And if addiction was as easily, it was cured as easy as just saying, well, then you can't do this until you're done. We would have no addiction problems. But addiction is often a connection issue.

It's a relationship issue. And so instead of putting up roadblocks, now it doesn't have to be your kid, hear me say that. But if you really want to help your brother, deepen the relationship with him, connect with him, reach out to him, talk to him once a week, twice a week via phone, go visit him. Y'all set up camping trips together and you lean into that relationship. Then you will earn the currency to say, hey, what's really going on? And he might say, you had the same mom and dad as me. You know exactly what's going on.

Or you know about this. Or you know some stuff that I never told you. And it may be that he chooses smoking weed and you choose to work 90 hours a week. You're both running. Yours is just socially acceptable and his isn't, right? Or it may be that he's just, he's a punk 22-year-old who just wants to get high, doesn't care what other people say, and he needs to be slopped upside the head and not living at mom and dad's house and not mooching free meals off holidays, right? Only you know that. But I don't think you

have to draw a comparison between a safety issue and a 22-year-old who may smoke weed a week before he comes to see you. Those seem like radically different things to me. And you just have to make peace with the fact that you have a kid now, and every boundary you draw from here on out is going to be hard. Somebody is going to hit up against that boundary with their face and their forehead and their feet and their fists and their knees and their entire body is trying to knock those boundaries over, and you're going to have to hold firm to them. You and your wife are. And so what I would circle back – here's how I would approach this moving forward. I would circle back, Eric, and I would have a conversation with your wife. Conversation number one is what are we trying to do?

What are we trying to do? What are we trying to accomplish? Is all of this stuff because we don't want that one brother she has who's a violent offender or who makes dangerous decisions with drugs coming to our house for the holidays? Because if it's so, call it what it is. Don't punish other family members for one person's idiocracy or one person's illness or one person's struggle. Don't do that. So get with your wife and say, what are we really trying to accomplish? Are we trying to have a drug-free house? If so, sweet. Send that notice to everybody. Call them

in person. Hey, you cannot come here unless you pass a drug test to walk in my house. Okay. I don't know anybody doing that, but you are free to do that. Okay. If you want to help co-parent your brother, he's 22. He's a grown man. Stop doing that. Be his brother. Love him. Lean into him. Lean into him. My brother and I, who I love more than life itself, we've had some great conversations over the year.

I gave him some behavioral mandates at one point. That wasn't super helpful, but I was young and thought I was, you know, like, I'll be there, right? I said, you can do these things. You can't do these things. Or I'm going to show up and then you have to deal with me or whatever. And I don't know if that was helpful. Probably not. Um, threatening someone you love is usually not the best way, but, um, I also loved him and I was trying to love him the best way I could. So if you back out, Eric, um, what are you really trying to accomplish here?

Yeah. I, I mean, I want to circle up with my wife, like you said, but I do think that it's more of that safety for the other brother. And I definitely want to, I don't want to be, don't want to set the, don't want to hold this boundary. I would rather have him come. I'd rather have him meet his nephew. Cause that's the other thing is he is by far like the most most excited. He cried when he found out we were pregnant. No one else. My parents didn't even cry. He's excited. And so I really want to nurture that relationship. Does your wife like him? Build a relationship. Oh, yeah. Well, he can be annoying, but that's a brother. You should see, you talk to my brother and sister.

I'm the most annoying guy there is, man. So, yeah. Dude, yeah, when it comes to him, you haven't told me anything that would say, no, you can't be here. You can full-fledged say you will not come into my house. Hi. I have told that to people that I love, right? You can't come to my house. Sure, yeah, and that's a different thing. Hi, you can't come to my house for drugs. You got to be safe when you come to my house.

But you're welcome here. Dude, I love that you want to deepen that relationship with him. Man, that's noble. That's noble. Let your parents be parents and you be the brother. And now that you're both in your 20s, you're both grownups now. You're both on your way to becoming wise grown men. Seek some other men in your life that can speak into this relationship.

You be the guy that goes first. Lean into your brother. Love him the best that you know how. And then when you don't, say, what are you missing, man? How can I be a better brother? Have that conversation. How's that for vulnerability, right? And yeah, talk to your wife about what your values are and how you're going to rally around your kid.

And never be too big. This is something I want to say to everybody. Never be too big to say, I drew a really hard boundary a year ago. And a year later, that was dumb. I mean, I overshot that one, right? Like I, you know, we all know that person that when they have their first kid, you go into their house and they're spraying you down with Lysol and making you wash your hands. This is pre-COVID, of course, and take your shoes off and leave them out in the yard. We all know those people. And then a year later, like, dude, yeah, whatever. And they're picking the pacifier out of the dog food bowl and just shoving it back in the kid's mouth. Don't be too big to say, I drew a line. It was wrong. That's the world we're in

right now with politics and with media, right? I said it four years ago. And if I go back and change my mind because I've got new data, I got new science, I got new relational information, I can't change my mind because everybody's nuts. The sign of an evolving wise mind is that they hold their values tightly and their beliefs loosely. And they are not afraid to say, I'm sorry. They're not afraid to say, man, I screwed that up. I want to go again. So good for you, Eric, lean into that brother, but start with your wife, start with a values conversation. And I feel like this call was kind of rambly. I was kind of rambling on you. Um, cause it's got, it feels like it's all over the place, but I hope if you're listening to this,

you hear yourself in one of these conversations. Does everything have to be equal across all my brothers and sisters? Is there such thing as a easy, hard conversation with family? No. Is drawing value-based boundaries hard? Yes. Is it uncomfortable? Yes. Can those change? Yes. Is doing hard drugs and safety issues different than a 22 year old who's just still smoking weed and he's just trying to get his life together? Yes. Yes. And yes. Is there something different between loving my brother, trying to be his super other parent? Yes. All of it. All of it. But lean into default to relationships and default to keeping your kids safe. Appreciate your brother, Eric. All right, let's go to – you know what?

Before we go to the next call, I got to just – this is me being vulnerable here. So I started at this job about 10 months ago now. Totally new. I had been living a life to where I didn't want to exist on the internet. I was trying super hard to not – I never – I didn't even know there was such a thing as a YouTube channel. I didn't know what that was. I listened to like the same two or three or four podcasts. I was just off media.

I just wanted to be intentional about being in the lives of the people around me. And so about nine or ten months ago, I took this job here and I got social media. I got Instagram. I told the team I would not ever, I don't know how to do some of these other platforms. And so they would take my posts off of Instagram and post them other places. And sometimes I'll lean into some of this stuff, but I'm going to do one Instagram post today, and I tell you what. You take my introduction as an old person, as a 40-year-old, into social media, and then you dump on that a contentious election and a lot of COVID stuff and the health literature. I'm a nerd still. I stay in the literature a lot.

So I'm keeping up with some of these scientists who are cranking stuff out, trying to figure out what's happening with the election, all the things. And suddenly I find myself violating one of my core tenets, one of my deepest, corest personal values, which is people before screens. Long form books over tiny tidbits of information. A podcast over a Twitter feed. Right? Reading science papers, actually going to PubMed, actually going to Nature, going to some of these journals and reading the articles for myself versus just going to some influencer's interpretation of the science. And here's me being vulnerable 10 months later. Dude, I have completely crashed.

I spend way too much time on Instagram. Dude, that thing is like heroin. I spend way too much time. It's a pain in the butt to go get the actual study. I have a service that I have the articles from all over the world shipped to my inbox every week on different topics, right? On eating disorders and on anxiety and on COVID. They ship straight to my inbox. I don't even have to go find them.

And, man, it's just so much easier to scroll through Instagram and get a couple little bullet points and then move on. The election, man, I stayed plugged in. I had multiple screens up. I wanted to see what people were saying and how they were saying it. And they kept coming in and coming in. Here's the deal. My brain is fried. And so I'm calling for a personal, I want to invite you into a digital detox. I'm going to intentionally disconnect from these digital devices to give my brain and my body a break and to heal some of these relationships that I've, I haven't hurt people, but man, I've just started to get distant. This includes all screens and all things that come with them, right? And this removes, this detoxing removes constant stimulation from my neural pathways. It gives me an opportunity to reset and refocus on real life, real rhythms, the sun, the moon,

weather, right? Real people, waving, eye contact, old school stuff. And then you throw a zoom into all this, by the way, for those of you who are still working at home, still navigating that world, man, enough is enough is enough. And here's an important thing before we get into some details. You can't just take screens away. You have to backfill that with other things that are going to fill that time and space. Things are going to make you whole. And some of that may be sleep, like we talked about in a recent podcast. Some of that's going to be intentional relationships. Some of that's going to be looking across the table at someone that you love saying, I miss being intimate with you.

I look back on COVID and we are now sleeping together once a month. We have held hands never. We just don't hold hands anymore. We haven't kissed each other on the face in a long time Kids, I've just quit hugging you I'm checking these stupid whatever screens all the time You've got to backfill that with intentional activities Intentional relational connection moments

So everyone should set time for a digital detox on a regular basis So here's a couple of things that me and the team came up with. Every day, think about detoxing the bookends of your day, right? So don't get on at least until an hour of being awake. I'm saying, if you go check my data on my phone, I'm an idiot when it comes to this. I screw it up.

I don't do it well. Don't get on your screens until at least an hour, if not longer. In fact, be with people and then drive to work without getting on screens. Let being at work be the first time you get on a screen. And then an hour before you go to bed, get off. Get off. That may mean you have to go to the public library. Public library.

Free books. They just have them there. Go for walks in your neighborhood where they have those books in the little sidewalk libraries. Play with your kids. Play board games. Me and my son rediscovered Mancala. Dude, we are gambling like crazy on Mancala for his Halloween candy. It's so great.

Every week, aim to be off screens for the majority of one day. Probably on the weekend Be completely off Un-freaking-plug And then every year once or twice Have an extended time of going screen free And I want to talk to bosses out there If you were one of those bosses Who expects your people

To take their phone with them on vacations To always be accessible, because that's how we're going to know if they really care. Bull crap. That's a you problem, not a them problem. If you are that kind of boss, you are killing your employees, you are choosing to dissect their families, and it's pissing me off.

You're hurting people. When people are on vacation, I want you as a boss, as a supervisor, to call them and say, do not get on the phone. Go be whole with your family. And bosses, the research is in. They will be better employees. They will work harder for you on their back.

Let them go. God Almighty is driving me crazy. But go on a vacation. Go somewhere and leave your phone in the car. Don't think of, wow, this is going to make a really good Instagram post. I have fallen into that trap, and I've only been on this stupid thing for a few months. Here's a few truths about the tech. More and more research reveals there's a strong relationship between increased technology use and anxiety and depression. It's just the data, guys. It's just the science.

Get off of it. Also, we know this, but these platforms are highly engineered to make you want to click on them. I'm a guy that does mental health wellness for a living and I am I I catch myself with it if you watch the documentary social dilemma you'll see it it's real it's not a pretend thing it's not a oh my gosh are they going to secede from the union it's not one of those kind of conspiracy theory theory things they're going to vaccinate us all and put chips in our brains just whatever no this is for real they highly engineer platforms to make you want to click on them, to need to click on them. Digital stimulation, digital conversations are not communication. They are information transmission. Communication is not connection. I'll say that

again. Communication is not connection. Just because you text somebody a lot does not mean you're connecting with them. I can text my wife, I love you, 50 times in a day. I haven't connected with her. I've passed along info that she received in about 25% of her information-absorbing receptors in her frontal lobe.

That's it. She got data point. My husband loves me. She didn't get my eye crinkles. She didn't get my smile. She didn't get my touch. She didn't get my eye crinkles. She didn't get my smile. She didn't get my touch. She didn't get my pupils dilating. She didn't get my hug, our hearts, our heartbeats connecting together. She didn't get any of that stuff. She got some data and that's not connection. Your smartphone is a tool. It's a hammer. It's a screwdriver. It is not your friend. It does not like you.

It's just not. It's convenient. Yes. It is not your friend. Okay. The goal of social media apps is for you to devote as much of your attention as possible to the app. They monetize your time and they monetize your attention. It is a widget. It is a tool. And it is using you, right? So what do I do without this? Replace time on screen with relationships. Replace mindless scrolling with being intentional. Cook. Walk.

Kick a soccer ball. Go hunting. Go fishing. Paint something. Learn how to play something. Build something, do somersaults in your neighbor's yard. I don't care what it is, but find things that connect you with humanity. Get in touch with your true values. So many of us are letting other people dictate our values because I'm on that team and they're saying that I have to think this and I guess I just

don't know what to do. And then do human things. Play in the rain with your kids. Cook a meal with a roommate. Try, dye your hair. You're on Zoom for crying out loud. No one's going to see it. Give yourself a mohawk, right? And then read real books. Read fiction.

Fiction. I know the cool thing is, bro, I don't have time for fiction. Read fiction. We'll talk about that another thing. I have a whole thing on reading fiction. How it comes into your brain differently. But at the end of the day, here's the deal. I'm calling for a digital detox.

I'm going to do it. Normally, I wait until New Year's to do some of these things. I'm starting here. I'm starting right now to be highly intentional about my time. And just got to get off. Just got to get off. So that's it. So let's take another call. Let's go to Kelly in Guam, right down the street in Guam.

Kelly, what's going on? Hi, Dr. D. Thank you so much for taking my call. Thanks for waiting so long while I was ranting about digital detoxes. How are we doing? I'm okay. You know, I'm calling today about my beautiful 17 and a half year old baby girl. All right.

So her teenage years have been a little rough for the family, but particularly on me. In the last three and a half years, we've dealt with two pregnancy scares. And we've had to work through those things as a family with Christian values. She's not pregnant. But after working through these events as a family and as a mother and daughter, I find that now moving forward, I'm always suspicious of her now. The most recent scare was just this July. And I'm struggling with always suspecting her of wrongdoing, even when she's innocent. And since this last pregnancy scare, she's actually done really well in honoring our boundaries and our values. And I've explained

to her that my trust is very fragile, but I'm just always suspicious. And I don't want to spend the last five months of her childhood life with me suspicious of her. And I also don't want that to leak over into my 10-year-old son who's coming up into adolescence. So hoping for some advice. Oh, I love that. Thank you so much for your trust here. I appreciate that, man. It's cool. So there's several things here. Let's back all the way up. So you've got, you said you got Christian values of your home. And so one of those values I'm going to assume is that you want to, you don't want your teenage daughter out having sex with, with other people, right? Correct. Okay. So when you say there was two

pregnancy scare events, that sounds like a drum roll and fireworks and lightning. Tell me what you mean when you say events. Did you catch her with somebody or did she come home and have a hard conversation with you and say, hey mom, I think I'm pregnant? Did she have a pregnancy test that she passed? Tell me what the event was. Okay. So the first one was the more chaotic one. I actually didn't know what had happened for over a year. When she was as young as just turning 15, she became very angry, depressed, dealt with self-harm. It was just really difficult. I didn't know what was going on. I got her counseling, and for a year, I just worked through this child who I basically didn't know anymore. I had to do some work on my own

self to connect with her better. Anyways, after a year of this, of counseling, of boundaries, of working together with technology, exactly what you've said about technology, I had to cut her off of technology for over a year. We found out she was inappropriately interacting with this boy via technology, and so her dad got involved and contacted his parents and cut, we basically cut them off. She was barely 15. So a year later, after all of this, she finally told me, mom, I slept with him. And she was like, I got pregnant and I miscarried, which I cannot medically confirm because I don't, it was a year later and I don't even know if she knew what that meant. And so, I mean, it was a huge upset.

It dramatically affects our family. But like I said, we did a lot of hard work. And so this last event in July, it was just one of those. She came home. I was like, mom, I'm late for my administration. I took a pregnancy test. It was negative. And I was like, oh my God, honey, well, those could be inaccurate.

So we spent the weekend. I took her to the doctor and I spent the weekend crying basically, waiting for those results. Those results came back negative. After that, me and her father sat her down and we went over what our personal values were, where we stood, but the fact that she's almost an adult and she's going to make these decisions, she's going to have to deal with them. And so that's basically how they unfolded. So the second event wasn't, I don't want to say it wasn't as traumatic, if you will, but still very, it affected me greatly. And so before I leave the first one, that's not a pregnancy scare. Okay.

If a 15 year old got pregnant and miscarried, that is a deep, deep trauma. Yes. Okay. So that's not a pregnancy scare event. I don't know any adult in my life who hasn't had some sort of pregnancy scare, even if they're married with a couple of kids, right? Yeah. That goes with the territory. That's not what your daughter experienced. I have met with teenagers over the years who

become sexually active at a young age, and they go through a whole series of depressive episodes of, like you mentioned, cutting, self-hharm stuff because there's a disconnect between the physical and the the hormonal and then the emotional and it just becomes a tidal wave for for especially young teens and then you throw into that whether if she was truly pregnant and truly miscarried that's a loss of i don't know if you've experienced that but that's a loss of unimaginable depth that if you've experienced that, but that's a loss of unimaginable depth that a 15-year-old just doesn't have the psychological wiring to handle. I don't know any adult that has the psychological wiring to handle that on their own without a community, right? And so I want to characterize that the right way. So then fast forward,

when she came to you and said, Mom, I'm late, and you spent the weekend crying, were you crying because your daughter was having sex again, or were you crying because you thought you were going to be a grandma? So I think my crying had more to do with, like, blaming myself. Like, how did I let this happen to her again? How is this your fault? Well, because I'm her mom, and, I mean, I've spent so much time trying to talk to her about the dangers and the value. Yeah, but you were 17 too.

If a 17-year-old wants to be a 17-year-old, they're going to be a 17-year-old. And so you're taking a lot on if you immediately run to the mirror and say, what have I done? I gave her all the information, and we know that, like, sexual activity in teenagers is how they try to connect, right? That's them trying to figure it out. And so, yeah, you can put up all kind of fences and stuff. Teenagers, we've got 400 years. We've got thousands of years of literature about teenagers figuring it out, right,

how to get around walls and barriers and things. Yes, sir. So, and I'm telling you that not to minimize what you went through, but I'm just trying to drill down. It sounds like you felt like you failed. Yes. For your teenage daughter, violating your boundaries, true, but acting like a teenage daughter.

And so I want to get at, were you disappointed in her? Were you heartbroken? Or did you really just land on, I suck as a mom because it happened again? Yeah, that's where I landed. Okay. So your tears were more about your perceived failures, not about any situation your daughter was in. Well, I mean, there was a little bit of, oh my gosh, what about her future, right? There you go.

Okay. All right. What does that mean for her? Right. Of course. But she was very stoic about it. She was like, mom, I'm going to do what I have to do if I am pregnant. And I'm, of course, like, baby, I'm here for you.

Right. And she's like, I know, mom, but I'm going to do what I got to do. I made this choice. But I mean, a lot of it, because I guess because of what I went through when she was 14, like it's just. Yeah. And so here's the thing. I missed an important thing and I'm going to own that. I missed it. Your daughter dealt with a unimaginable trauma, but you did too. And if you're still characterizing the miscarriage of a future grandkid as a pregnancy scare, that tells me you haven't dealt with it either. And you might still be in the performative

aspect of parenting, which is often for evangelical Christian kids. If I can keep them from having sex, drinking beer, and smoking cigarettes and marijuana, I've won. And if they don't say bad words, that's even a bonus on top, right? And we lump in those three or four behaviors, and those are all well and good. Those are all values behaviors. Those all have negative outcomes attached to a lot of them, right? But often we sacrifice connection for trying to like truly connecting with my kid, letting them see what I'm going to model what these values look like. And it really diminishes the connection because I'm just trying to make sure that this

behavior doesn't happen. And I'm all about behavior prohibition for teens, big time, big time. And I think we have completely swung that pendulum too far the other way, asking 13 year olds how they feel about things. I don't care. You're 13, right? And so I'm with you on those, but you've got to process the trauma too. And I bet your husband does as well. And if you haven't sat down and you said, I'm really proud of you said you did your own work for a year. I hope that some of that was healing was from that too. So you've reached an important point that I hope every parent listening to this hears. I hope every wife and every husband and every boss, everyone who's in a relationship with other people.

You have a suspicion now. You created a picture of a world that your daughter was going to live into and she didn't live into it. And you probably put some boundaries on her. Like you can't, you've got a curfew. You can't go out these time. I don't want you talking to that boy. And somehow she was a 17 year old and she found her way around the boundaries and she slept with somebody again and now you're suspicious of everything and you also are wise enough to know that that living that suspicious life if you start trying to always be thinking about what's on her phone what's always in her email accounts where she might be where she's not be i'm going to put my phone tracker app that you realize that you are distilling a relationship down into a series of points and she's going to go away in about half a

year. She can be 18, she can be gone. And you're going to realize I burned that last half of that thing, fretting away those moments of connection, right? That's a really astute observation for you as a mom. I hope everyone's listening to this, that when we turn people into our worst fears, we are choosing to disconnect from them. So here's a couple of things I would tell you, and these are just off the top of my head. Number one, you are allowed to have your suspicions. They're real. And my guess is you had some behaviors, expectations of your daughter, which is right and good. I'm glad you did. And she violated them again.

And so you're allowed to be suspicious, right? That's a normal thing. I got a 10-year-old and I'm suspicious of him. I got a five-year-old and I'm super suspicious of her, right? That's normal and good. Also, your kid's 17. You're allowed to say, let me see your phone. You're allowed to say, where are you going? Call me when you get there. I don't consider that, and I'm going to get mean

cards and letters. I don't consider that a quote unquote invasion of their privacy. They are children. They're children. They have a door on their room because we are nice, not because they quote unquote deserve it. Okay. So you're allowed to be suspicious. At the same time, you are real close to having an adult in your home and teaching them that autonomy and teaching them how to lean out of that is important. So here's what I think is the greatest gift you could give your kid. So this is number two. Number one is your suspicions are good.

They're fine. Good for you. Number two is finding a way to both be honest with your 17 and a half year old and wise. And what do I mean by that? Say, when you feel suspicious, sit down with your daughter and say, I'm feeling suspicious. Something's not right in my gut. And I have been wrong, wrong over the course of your life. sit down with your daughter and say, I'm feeling suspicious. Something's not right in my gut and I have been wrong, wrong over the course of your life. Do I have anything to be suspicious about?

And let her speak into it. Okay. And what, what, what you're doing is you're, you're showing your daughter vulnerability. You're showing her leadership. You're showing her accountability. And you are saying, I'm going to default to trust, even though you violated a few big times. Cause it sounds like all the other times she's, she's a pretty good kid. Right. Um, and like you said, you started the whole call with, she's beautiful and wonderful and she's had sex. And so I don't want all those things to be divorced from one another, right? They can all be living that same tension. But by showing her that you love her enough to hold her accountable and you love her enough to be vulnerable and open with her,

you're going to model for her what being a parent looks like. You're going to model for her what being a Christian mom looks like, someone who both loves and wants to trust and is still struggling with that moment. And then if you find out that she's lying to you again, you're going to hold her accountable. If you find out that she's violating your core family values, you're going to hold her accountable. And I think being honest with her about that tension, because here's what kids do. Kids feel that tension on their parents, and they backfill that tension with it's my fault. I suck.

I can't make my mom feel right about me. And the way kids interpret that is a violation of a relationship, and it's their fault. And then they set about all kinds of different behaviors and ways of coping with that disconnection. Some kids try to be perfect. Some kids go burn down the neighborhood. Some kids try to get straight A's. Some kids quit going to class. Some kids smoke weed. Some kids go get bunches of girlfriends. Some kids fill in the blank, but it's kids are always trying to reach out and reconnect and reform those relationships, especially when they feel that gap and that tension with their parents. And so that tension is going to be there when you feel that suspicion. Like she's like, all right,

I'll be back at 10. I'm going to study Spanish at Susan's house. And your alarms go off when you're like, bull crap, you're not right. Like you're not. And now you've got a, you've got a backlog. You've got some things where she's gone to study. So you think, and you also have some data that says sometimes she doesn't go study. So you think, and you also have some data that says sometimes she doesn't go study. Sometimes she goes and hooks up with somebody right then there's that tension and she feels it. You feel it. You all feel it. And that's when you, as the adult, the wise one get to lean into that and say, all right, let's talk. I, my, my suspicion alarms just set off. It might be me, but I was a 17 year

old girl once too. and it might not be. So here's what I think. I think you're going to go do X, Y, and Z, and I feel like I want to look at your phone. When I say that, what do you think? And let her speak into it. And then you get to own the conversation, you get to own the wisdom, you get to own the vulnerability there, and then you let her get to practice being an adult? Is she going to be honest with you? Is she going to tell you the truth, et cetera, et cetera? How does that sound when I say that? It sounds, you know, along the lines of what I've been working towards. Awesome. Because I mean, yeah, there was one time, like I caught her, she was up at like 4am. I was

like, what are you doing awake? And so we had this argument and I was just honest. I said, baby, you have to understand my trust is very fragile and we have to work together to fix that. So one thing I would add, number one, good for you for having the conversation and for leaning into that. Number two, 4 a.m. is never a good time to have existential conversations about trust. Agreed. Right?

Because then she gets, she's exhausted and that – her ability to think clearly and respond appropriately and respectfully is thin. And then your ability to respond respectfully and authentically and wise is thin. That's when you circle back that next weekend or that next night or that evening and say, dude, look, 4.30, no way, dude. No teenager in Guam is just hanging out at 4 a.m. because they're doing math homework, right? They're not, right? No. And so I think you're right on the right track. I do.

Feel your feelings and just ask them for data, for truth. And if you feel suspicious, trust your gut. You've been right a lot. And lean into wisdom and trust with your daughter. I think that's a good place. And I want to honor the fact that you and your husband set boundaries and values for her. And most of the time she follows them and a couple of times she hasn't. And you still are defaulting to the fact that you love her. You think she's wonderful. I think giving her good education and not just scare tactics but good education and also being vulnerable where you can about your own story. If you have your own stories, letting her get to see what's in the heart and mind of a good mom and a good wife and a good person just trying to make through the day.

But man, it sounds like y'all are right on the right track. And the more vulnerable you can lean into that while still holding firm to your values and firm to that accountability, Kelly, you're teaching a young kid how to become a young woman, how to become a young woman How to become a young adult And good for you That young girl's lucky to have you Wouldn't do 4am conversations But she's lucky to have you That's super, super good And man, I'd already picked this song

I don't know I don't think it's appropriate Because it's about boyfriends and things. So I'm going to switch to another song. Let's see here. We're going to go to this song. We're going to go to one of my favorite songs of all time off the 1986 New Order album. The name of the album is Brotherhood.

I love this song. It's called Bizarre Love Triangle. Has nothing to do with you guys in Guam. Has everything to do with Bizarre Love Triangles. The good folks in New Order. I love them. What a great team. 1986 Brotherhood album.

Here's what they write. Every time I think of you, I feel shot right through with a bolt of blue. I don't even know what that means, but it just sounds cool. It's no problem of mine, but it's a problem I find living a life that I can't leave behind. There's no sense in telling me the wisdom of a fool won't set you free. Duh.

But that's the way that it goes, and it's what nobody knows. Well, every day, my confusion grows. And every time I see you falling, I get down on my knees and pray. I'm waiting for that final moment. You say the words that I can't say. I have no idea what that even means, but it sounds so good. And this is the Dr. John Deloney Show.