The Dr. John Delony Show - Could This Secret End My Marriage Before It Starts?

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

On today’s episode, we hear about: A man wondering if he should tell his fiancée about a past addiction A man questioning whether he should divorce his lesbian wife A man struggling to come to terms with his friend’s actions   Next Steps: 🔥 Reconnect every day. Download the Together app. 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch ❤️ ⁠Getaway with your spouse today!    Connect With Our Sponsors: Head to Beam and use code DELONY for an exclusive discount—because better sleep, energy and focus start tonight. Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Keep your home safe and under control. Go to Cove Smart and use code DELONY for up to 80% off your first order. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.  Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Go to Dutch Pet and use code DELONY to get $50 off a year of vet care. Go love your pets! Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Working knives for working people—go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne.     Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now, we have February and October weekends on sale for the money in marriage getaway. It's the best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at $749 bucks a couple. Get yours at ramsysolutions.com slash getaway. The youngest three all have special needs. My brother, he has a physical condition, so he can't do a whole lot.

So they basically gave me the responsibility of making sure that he didn't break bones. Okay, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. That is an insane job to give to a six-year-old. That's madness. Yo, yo, yo, what's up? This is Don Joloni.

Just kidding. This is John Deloney with the Dr. John Deloney's show. Taking your calls on your mental and emotional health and your relationships, your marriages, your dating life, whatever you got going on. For the last two decades plus, I've been sitting with hurting people trying to figure out what's the next right move. I'd love for you to pull up a seat and we're going to figure it out. If you want to be on the show, go to johndeloney.com slash ask ASK. And don't forget to check out the Together app. It's in the Apple store.

It's the app that I made specifically. help you make the next right step in your marriage. A lot of people think marriages are over. I don't know how to do this. Maybe our relationships run its course. We have a good marriage and want it to be great. This Together app is for you. And by the way, I priced it because everybody is struggling financially.

Everybody. Priced it is six bucks. And you can either do it by yourself or bring your spouse for that same six bucks. That's it. Six bucks a month to transform your marriage. The reviews, we've got thousands of people in it. The reviews are, I mean, they're staggered. They're so great.

So go check it out. It's in the App Store. For you Android, folks, just relax. We got it coming, but it's not there yet. But for you, Apple, folks, you can go check it out in the Apple store. It's got to Duluth, Minnesota, and talk to John. What's up, John? Hey, John.

How's it going? I'm great, brother. How are you, man? Pretty good. It's a pretty cool day up here, but, you know, it's kind of how it goes. We need a cool day. It's been an uncomfortably hot fall, so, man. We need some of that cool Minnesota weather to come on down.

Absolutely. You can have all you want. Very cool. What's up, dude? So I just had a question for you. I guess I'll start with my question. My question is I'm getting married next summer and how do I deal with the guilt of porn, of past porn as I go into this. amazing relationship.

How old are you? I am 20 years old. 20 years old. Yes, sir. Tell me more about your question. Well, about dealing with guilt. I'm a very guilt-heavy person. That's just inherently how I am from a very young age.

I've had a lot of responsibility put on me. And when I wouldn't, when I wouldn't do well with the things that were given to me, and my parents would use guilt as a motivating factor. It's incredibly demotivating, so it doesn't work. Give me an example of a thing you were given to do that you didn't live up to this standard that your parents had. well there's a couple of circumstances so i'm the oldest of five kids in my uh the the youngest

three all have special needs um and there was multiple circumstances where i'd be six seven eight nine ten years old like like any like it's been going on since i was really really young and um my brother has it's he has a physical condition so he can do a whole lot so I took care of him a lot and sometimes you would still get hurt things would still happen he has real bone disease so he breaks bones really easy and so they basically gave me the responsibility of making sure that he didn't break bones okay hold on hold on hold on uh that's insane yeah no no no i don't want you just to hear that don't you to feel that that is an insane job to give to a six-year-old

or a nine-year-old or a 14-year-old that's madness hmm it's a madness it was similar too so my one of them when my brothers has bro-bone disease so he breaks bones really easy

and the other two we my parents adopted the young to have FASD, and it was kind of, we were all homeschooled growing up, and it was kind of when dad was gone at work, which he worked a lot, you know, to provide for five kids, three with special needs. When dad was gone, I was expected to kind of take up the mantle there. What did that mean? I would watch over my siblings, and like there was a circumstance where my brother, he actually, crazy, crazy coincidence, I guess, but he actually had a tree fall on them, the one with real bone disease.

So it was me and my, everyone except for my dad, what was home, and mom, my mom grabbed my brother and, and, was able to take him to the emergency room, but I was left in the shock and awe as I was 11 at the time with my three other siblings, like not knowing what to do, not knowing what's even going on, like when my brother was, when he was being taken away, it was pretty, pretty extreme. There were lots of like medical stuff going on. Like, is he going to make it? And my siblings are thinking the exact same thing. So trying to mediate all that as well well well the fact that you are put in a scary situation or you're the oldest you're the 11 year old and we got to take one kid to the er and i need you to step up that's that's not a

crazy thing right because the circumstances is crazy right exactly yeah but the fact that you're 20 almost a decade later and you're as you're telling the story i can hear it replaying in your body and your nervous system. That tells me an important piece was left out. And that is, you were an 11-year-old, not holding things together. You were an 11-year-old who was all alone. Yeah. Not just alone for a couple of hours while dad got home.

But an 11-year-old who was going to be judged for what you did while mom was. gone and why did you let this happen to brother and why did we you have two adopted siblings with special needs why didn't you fill in the blank with no attention to walking in the door and hugging the 11 year old first and saying thank god you stepped up i knew i could count on you mm-hmm right yeah yeah i've had situations where i had to leave i'll you know what i'll the other night. This happened the other night. I have a 15-year-old. A couple of years older than you were and a nine-year-old. And my wife came in at 11 o'clock and said, I got to go to the ER right now. This is just a month ago. I left a note for both of them. And I drove my wife to the ER.

And when I got home, the first thing I did was not say, oh my gosh, why are their clothes on the floor? The first thing I did. And again, I'm not a perfect parent. The first thing I did was I walked in, I hugged my son I hug my daughter and said thank you guys for stepping up you get what I'm saying yeah yeah absolutely and why am I

pointing back to all of this stuff you're not dealing with guilt you're dealing with shame because guilt says I did something that violates my values right I looked at point out I don't want to be that guy, but I looked at it.

Shame is, like, so guilt is I did a thing, I did a bad thing, right? Whatever. That's just, I don't like using that kind of word, but I did a bad thing. Shame is, I am a bad thing. Yeah, that makes sense. You work through guilt by not doing that thing again. Guilt is a good thing. It's a good emotion.

It's not something we should run and hide from. it tells us the truth we violated something we did a thing that is against our core values i'm glad that i have guilt it's a good alarm system for me i shouldn't have said that thing i don't want to be that kind of guy i'm not that kind of guy i shouldn't have had those thoughts i shouldn't have looked at that on the internet i shouldn't have hit that guy in the like parking lot right guilt is a good thing shame is an identity well and i remember very early me and my brother with real bone disease actually now that we're kind of becoming adults we're able to have those kind of more in-depth conversations together and both of us have

struggled like that's been our turn to from a very like I remember doing like being involved in that when I was six or seven yes and I remember I didn't want to talk to my dad about it because I knew that he would be exhausted and more than likely flip out so I went and talk to my mom, who was a very, very loving woman, but both of us remember it exactly the same when we individually went and talked to my mom about it, like, she, like, for the first time, I've never seen my mom act so crazy before, and she started, like, blaming us, like, coming and, like, attacking us. Like, she wasn't, like, there. She was coming after my brother and I, and I, and I remember after that, it was just, like, that was a very big core member.

a defining moment. Okay, and so what you have to commit to doing is not passing that same level of fear and am I good enough questioning on to your new wife? Yeah. Gosh, how do I do that?

You have to be really intentional. And it starts with you being honest in saying, if you haven't been already, these are conversations you'll need to have now because they're going to resurface in a million wild ways. over the course of your marriage. If you enter into every conversation and every interaction

and every tough situation with your fiancé in a, oh, you might leave. If you really saw me and knew me, you would leave. That's actually,

I was just talking, I'm good friends with my pastor at our church and I was just talking to him on the way home from work today. And I was like, part of the conversation is, man my fiance is feeling really really distant what did i do like where like what's what's going on

it just like it immediately turned into fear um because your mom left you bro yeah she just didn't kick you out of the house when you went to her at the age of freaking six and said i looked at something that made me feel gross inside she said emotionally get away from me yeah and dad just took off mm-hmm and you yeah I've been walking around

that's gonna happen yeah and you've been well here's the thing you're walking around all the time thinking you're not enough because the two people that were put on the planet to love you and be connected to you

said you're not enough for me you're not enough for us hmm So how can a 20-year-old look out into the world and see this beautiful woman he's asking to spend the rest of his life with and say, oh, she's going to buy it, though? You don't even buy it. You don't think you're enough.

And so the path forward is sitting down and being honest and saying, I don't know that I've fully told you the death. The fact that you described your mother, before you told me what happened, how she went after a six-year-old for stuff, stumbling into pornography. The fact that she didn't hold your hand and say, oh my gosh,

I completely let you down. It's my job to keep you safe from that kind of trash when you're six or seven. I failed you. And by the way, boobs are awesome. And you're going to always be curious and there's nothing wrong with you for wanting to look.

But there's a time and a place for it. And this is, this isn't healthy, it's not good. Yeah. The fact that that wasn't the conversation, it was your gross, you disgust me, get out of my. So you sitting down with your fiance and saying, hey, look, I'm still to this, here's the programming I've got that I'm not enough. And the way I have tried to feel alive in my own skin is through pornography and I'm done with that. I'm going to trip up and I'm going to stumble. I'm going to feel guilty because guilt is right because I've set a value for me.

myself and I've tripped over my own values but I need you to know there's going to be times when I need you just to put your hand on my hand to put your forehead on my forehead because I've got it wired into my nervous system that the people closest to me are going to leave because I'm not enough yeah and she might say actually I've been meaning to talk to you and y'all need to have that conversation now or she's probably going to say i said i would marry you i'm never going to leave i think you're enough and by the way beginning to believe and learn that i am worth being loved and those two people didn't do a good job at all but i am worth it you have work to do you can't just sit in a room and imagine what happens next it's your job to go find

mentor relationships because you can't rely on your parents. And we're not going to cut them off. I'm still going to show up at Thanksgiving, but they don't get a vote anymore. It's my job to go show up and do the work when it comes to my professional work, to my academic work. I'm going to make good grades because that's kind of guy I am because I'm worth that. I'm going to exercise because I'm a guy that's a good steward in my body. You get them saying?

I'm going to start changing the identity and then I'm going to backfill that with action. yeah I'm going to seek vitality and life I'm not just going to sit at home feeling dead in my own skin every time my partner gets up my fiance gets up to go to the bathroom

I'm going to feel like what did I do what's wrong does she not like me anymore oh my gosh what's happening and the way I can shut that voice off is with pornography or with the drink right? Mm-hmm yeah

that's your that has to be your path moving forward but all that's going to start with a full transparency with her. Hey, I've never told you about what really the kind of the weight I've had to carry. My dad looked at me and put me in charge of his special needs children and made it my responsibility at 9, at 11, that if something happened to them, that was my fault. It's madness. Madness. When my mom used to leave and have to rush one of my siblings to the emergency room.

I got graded on my performance. No, I'd hugged with gratitude. It's madness. I'm sorry that you've had to endure that. You get to decide what kind of man you're going to become next. And the challenge for you is those two people, the two people that were supposed to be right or die for you, weren't. But you've got to have men and women that are out ahead of you that are right or die

with you. and you're going to have to go seek them out and you're going to have to be really courageous and trust again. Be honest again. That's your mission, my brother. I'm going to send you a copy of building a non-anxious life and hang on the line.

I'm going to hook you and your fiancé up with a year of the Together app for free and y'all can use this as you're starting your new marriage together and I think it's going to make an amazing difference. And hang on the line here. We'll get you hooked up. When we come back, a man asks if he should divorce his wife who just came out as a lesbian.

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Doing good, brother. How are you, ma'am? Well, you know, been better, been worse. That's well done, well done. What's up? Well, my wife came out to me a few weeks ago now, and there's been a few updates. but it doesn't seem like that was her intention. But at the time, I thought the divorce was clearly the right option.

She disagreed. Came out in what way? Came out that she's not attracted to you anymore. She's attracted to women. She came out how? So here's how she phrased it. And this is what kind of caused the tailspin. She came out and said to me, Josh, I'm gay.

Now, for a little bit of backstory, she had come out to me before we got married as bye. that was something that I knew, was aware of, we were both good with, like, hey, I beat out twice as many people, that wasn't true. That's like the old chasing game, you're like, dude, I tried out 100% of the field, and you win. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then, you know, three weeks ago, she comes out and says, hey, I'm gay. And so for me, instantly, I'm thinking, okay, well, we don't have kids yet. We are in a position where we could separate fairly quickly and easily. What was the context of the coming out? Well, I didn't have a lot. She has been kind of on a journey. Her mental health has had a lot of ups and downs.

And she, over the last, you know, we've been married for just over three years now. And with me is kind of the first time she's had the emotional safety to do her own exploring of her own identity and inner self. And so she's been working through that a lot of it with me

but you know this part in particular more so on her own with her therapist and so she has been embracing more of her queer identity and that was what prompted her like hey you know I don't want to hide this from you anymore

Josh I want to share this with you that this is I'm embracing more of this side of my identity and apparently that's what she had intended to say and when it came out with the words I'm gay my immediate conclusion was, okay, you're a lesbian. Yeah.

So, but what's the implication for I'm going to explore this side of my identity outside of a, outside of a, and by the way, I spent my entire career with LGBT organizations in higher education, okay? So, like, I've been through this conversation with 18 and 19 and 20, 21 year olds and 25 years, for, two decades like before it was it was everyone was talking about it and after everybody was talking right i haven't heard this conversation i'm just going to explore this thing outside but not explore it yeah i mean and for her i think she's still figuring out what that means but the example she brought up and what is still driving me to consider divorce because because i think if it had been phrase differently, it wouldn't have come up as a consideration. But she also mentioned potentially opening up the relationship. And she was very clear, like if you say no, it is a hard

no, I'm not going to try and force this open or anything along those lines. But the fact that she brought it up was a big deal for me, because before we got married, that was a very clear shared value. Like our definition of marriage, part of that is monogamy. Yeah. Yeah, opening it up is not part of that. And so now, I'm at a place where, you know, I'm honored that I've created a safe place for her where she is, you know, feeling free to ask these questions of herself. But my concern is now if her value has diverged that much from mine, I don't, I don't know how to work with that. So what's your question for me, man? I mean what I'd like is for someone to tell me what to do and I mean here's let's get beneath the the confusing part or the radioactive part and the confusing radioactive part is you're trying to be a very open-minded kind loving husband right yes okay and your fiancee

or girlfriend lets you know, hey, I've been attracted to men and women. And I picked you. Cool, great. And we had this shared value of fidelity and monogamy. We had this shared value of, fill in the blank, all of your shared values. This is who we're going to be. And then a couple years in, she comes to you and says, hey, actually, I was kind of thinking we could open this relationship up and have sex with you.

more people. What do you think? I want to get away from the identity conversation and from the straight and queer conversation. I want to get away from that a little bit to the hurt guy that's sitting in front of me whose wife just said, I have been exploring my identity and I have come to the realization that I don't think that you're enough. I want more. because that to me sounds like the pain point and as a supportive guy you're trying to hold up okay i've created a safe space there's identity discussions there's all sorts of things on the queer spectrum

i want to get beneath that to the guy that just has heartbroken because his wife said eh you're not enough i'm thinking i want more guess I feel like, you know, there's, there's things I can handle, and maybe even this I could handle, but I don't know how much farther are we going to diverge in values. And where, I don't think it's the, I don't think it's the values conversation, brother. I think it is your wife looked at you and said, I want somebody else. I want you and some. or I've quote unquote discovered myself and realized man if I could do this over I wouldn't have done this with you but I'm stuck with you now can we add somebody else and she's denied that she said that you know she's I mean even after that whole conversation it sent her into a tailspin she said she wish you could take it back because she loves me she wants to be with me

Okay. She finds me attractive and that's all great, but I mean, and I fully believe her when she says there's not been someone else that she's like had her eyes on or anything along those lines, which helps, I think. So if that's the case, now let's, again, let's take off the radioactive part, the part that gets the internet all fired up. And let's just say, I've been married for 23 years and I've said some stupid things that upon further examination, I didn't really mean. or I didn't mean them in the way they came across. What is it about this situation that you're thinking, yeah, but I think I'm out? I think for me, like, I... My wife has said things that hurt me that upon further reflection, she's like,

I didn't mean it like that. That's not what I said. I know I said those words, but that's not what I meant. And it hasn't occurred to me. I'm out. so for you you heard this and then you heard like the that's not what i meant i'm sorry about what is it about this moment in time in your relationship with this person that you're saying yeah i can't go any further i think for me i want stability in a marriage okay and if if

and i'm going to come back to the values not the specific one but if those values are shifted I feel like I don't have that stability. And give me, and you've probably heard me say this on the show a million times. I always say couples have to be aligned in their values, but they can be all over the place with their beliefs. That's fine. Right. What value has shifted?

Monogamy. I mean, she said that she won't do it if I'm not up for it, but just the fact that she's open to the idea. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Okay. and yeah what give me another value give me another value because I feel like a lot is hinging on this one this one exploratory question it is it is and that's a big part of my problem and why like I I don't what I'm challenging you is it my gut tells me there's something

deeper or there's something else I think I'm just I've just witnessed her change and grow as a person and so I think what a lot of this is is my internal fear that that's because that's the biggest one far in a way there's nothing that even comes into the same category of things we've changed our mind on okay but when you sat down and said hey you said this thing you proposed this and I believe that if if I had said I'm in I'm into this you would have been all in and that hurt me deeply that you would consider adding somebody else to our secret world and she She said, I didn't mean it. I'm sorry. I don't know. I was just kind of out of my mind. I'm sorry. Oh, I apologize. That's not what I meant to say. Okay.

What I meant to say was what I meant, what she communicated to me was that she is sorry that she worded it that way. She is sorry that she did not plan ahead and how she was going to communicate this. But she still sees, she still sees opening up the relationship as something that's viable. Okay, okay, gotcha. Okay. So y'all, y'all have a values difference? Yes. Okay. And that's a significant one. And so you are, okay, now I'm understanding, you are right to say, okay, what's next? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I believe her when she says, you know, without my consent, she wouldn't, you know, go out on her own and do that. But just the fact that we have this way different definition, it feels like this gulf that I don't know. how to get across or how to meet in the middle. Hmm.

And yeah, what's next? What other values are we going to start diverging on? Um, I'm going to freethink for a second out loud. Is that okay? You go for it, man. I remember a few years ago talking to a couple, one of the people had experienced some pretty significant trauma when they were a child.

And it had kind of, there had been some hints about it, but had never been fully discussed between the two of them. And when finally came out and they were having the conversation and this person said, I need to go do my trauma healing and my work. there was this convert there basically it was you pause our life i'm going to go over here and do i'm going to pause my life i'm going to go over here and do my healing you continue and what i communicated to that couple is hey you have to do your own trauma healing and

y'all are both different now your marriage is different now and so any exploration of who you are an exploration of who y'all are and what i'm hearing in your right so somebody has to go to the therapist by themselves and do that hard work but that can't happen in isolated secret because you got a partner over here because when you get married one plus one equals one you got a half of an entity over here going okay everything's changed but i'm right here i'm all by myself i'm not hearing this I'm not right and so I hear your situation similar which is we got married and we created this sacred safe place and then she said I'm going to pause this thing you keep going I'm going over here to explore myself and she keeps coming back a different version and a different

version and a different version and a different version and you're saying hey hey hey Like every time you change, we change. And that's very countercultural. We're not allowed to say those kind of things in culture anymore, but it's madness because when you're married, one plus one equals one. And you're wondering, how much more are you going to change because we're changing every time you change? Does that sound right or I'm out to lunch there?

That is how I feel. I'm not going to say whether it's right or wrong because she, you know, she might, I mean, And if we're so off our communication that we had this big of a misunderstanding, I don't want to say that that's correct. But it's how I feel. That's how I feel. Okay. You nailed it. Feelings are part of it.

Feelings are some data, but they're not always truth tellers. Our feelings' job is not to tell us the truth. They're to keep us safe. So let me ask you the hard, hard question. What is true inside your marriage? Because I hear you trying to be open-minded and open-hearted and expansive and forgiving and inclusive. You're trying to be all of these things. But I want you to be honest about what is true in your marriage?

we are very different people okay than we were the sentence that's in my in my head is the person you married no longer exists is that too big of a stretch we heard that before marriage

and like we're gung-ho and embrace like yeah you got to choose to love you know who you marry and who they're going to be five years from now. And I guess, I guess you don't think about what that actually means when they change. Hmm. And for me, that's the question you have to answer, that I'm going to challenge you to not go ask anybody else, what should I do next? That's a decision that you have to own.

I appreciate the call, man. You're right. It's hard. Marriage is hard. when one of you starts changing and really transforming and exploring new identities and wanting to try things that were formerly way out of bounds values wise unless you know can we come back to the table and look at each other and say okay the marriage we had is over you've come back and put some big new things on the table a new identity a new sexual orientation a new sexual practice you want to try that includes bringing other people in do we want to build a new marriage together And that's the question all of us have to ask. Thanks for the call, brother.

I appreciate you. We come back. A man asks how to confront his best friend after finding out he was hiding an abortion. With you being gone over the holidays, you're got to ask yourself who's going to be watching your home while you're gone. And that's why I'm excited to tell you about Cove. Cove is a smart, affordable home security company with the mission of

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decision you'll make all year. Go to cove, C-O-V-E, covesmart.com, and use code Deloney. All right, let's go out to Fargo, North Dakota, and talk to Curtis. What's up, Curtis? Oh, nothing much, just here to get some help and some advice. You got it, brother. Let it rip. What's up. All right. Well, I'll start with this. Well, I just found out about two weeks ago on my best friend's girlfriend's birthday that she kind of trauma dumped me and said that my best friend made her get, not made her, but suggested, adamantly suggested that she get an abortion and she did. And that didn't sit right with me. He lied to me. He never told me that, ever. What did he say when you confronted him?

I haven't confronted him yet. Hold on. How good of a friend is he? He was my best friend. I've known him since I was 12. I'm 20 years old. I mean, what kept you from Gawkin right over at the party? He wasn't there at the time.

Or that you walked out and picked up the phone. I'm struggling. I got some rider-eyed buddies, man. And that kind of conversation, whether it's about abortion, whether it's about new girlfriend, whether it's about, any number of life challenges. Mm-hmm.

Like, what has kept you quiet for so long? I'm just, I don't know how to deal with it. It just shocks me. I'm still, like, I'm still grieving that in some ways, too. And it's just... That is you're grieving that, like, do you have a strong feeling about abortion, or is it that he kept a secret from you?

Or is that you thought he... Well, the loss of life, that's a big one. And then, like, the lying, too. Okay. I guess on the outset, as a guy with some old school buddies, I got buddies that are more than 40 years old. We got values all over the planet

that are different from each other, especially we've got beliefs all different. But you better believe we pick up the phone and call each other. And I'm wondering how good this friendship was. Yeah. Or maybe it's so blown. If we talk seriously like that, I would say.

I mean, I think step one is to call your friend and go, bro. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And this might be a stunner, but

sometimes girlfriends don't tell the truth, too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Could there be a chance that that story is just one-sided? I don't think so. She seemed very sincere, and she told me this. Okay. I think your friend of eight years, almost a decade, is at least worth a phone call to find out.

Yeah, certainly. And I guess I'll say this. One of the hardest lessons I've had to learn in my life is that friendships that were ride or die for a decade, for two decades, people grow up and they grow apart. And it's one of the, there's no breakup with your buddies.

Right. Right? I don't know, like when you break up with a girlfriend, you like, it's just like over like we're breaking up it's like all these rules like we don't call each other

or text each other or whatever or if we get a divorce there's like legal proceedings when you have buddies that like you got in fights with in elementary school and middle school and high school and you all did things together

and you'll spit the night each other's houses and you know when suddenly you're like oh I didn't know you're that dude I'm out there's not a set of rules after that mm-hmm mm-hmm

yeah that's the answer certainty I'm trying to address here certainly. I'll tell you, I don't know if I use the word confront, but I just know I love my friends, especially my guy friends. Yeah. I love them with my life. I love them with my family's life after I'm dead, whether it's an executor of my will or like whatever.

And so I don't know if it's the word confront as much as, my hope is right when we get off this call you pick up the phone and say bro we got to talk are you all in the same town yeah dude I'm come over tonight we got to talk certainly and by the way

you don't have to make any calls or decisions tonight but like if he confirms exactly what she told him then you say like man I need some time to wrap my head around on this one. You're not the guy I thought you were. You're not the man I thought you were.

Uh-huh. Certainly. Yeah. And if it played out like she said it did, he's probably hurting too, huh? Yeah, that's the thing. I was like, he, from what she's told me, and I haven't reached out to him, so I should definitely verify it. But she's told me that he's been very, like, when she went to get this abortion, and then

she was, first of all, my. My best friend wasn't even there when he got, when she got the abortion. And then when she came back and talked to Luke after the whole, you know, abortion process, he said, well, she wanted to keep the baby. And he said, you know, you probably only wanted to keep this baby just so you could keep me around. So that's another thing to address as well, because that seemed very manipulative and shallow and deceitful. It is, but also people say crazy things when they're scared to death. Certainly. I'm not giving him a pass, but I'm not giving him a pass, but I'm not.

I'm saying that a dude probably to know what day it is. Mm-hmm. And that's, yes, objectively on the outside for me and you, that's a really scumbag thing to say to somebody. Yeah. That you're trying to peer pressure

into doing something that's against her values. Mm-hmm. But I'm wondering if the thing he needs on the front end of all of this is a hug from his oldest friend of the world. Mm-hmm. Maybe not. Maybe you need to go punch him in the mouth,

but it sounds like he needs a hug. sounds like he is spinning out all by himself. And if he looks at you and he rolls back and is like, bro, you don't know what you're saying. You don't know, like, you know what I mean? Here's what I'll tell you. I don't think I've ever told us on this show ever. I'm hesitating to even say it out loud.

I will. My oldest friend on the planet is a paraplegic. He's in a car wreck after college. The last conversation we had with each other was me confronting him on something and I only had one piece of the information. And it came out later that I was wrong. And the last words we ever said to each other

are not repeatable on this show. I'm sorry to hear that. I tell you that to tell you. The greatest gift you can give a friend is the benefit of the doubt. Correct. And the chance to be honest and tell the truth. Mm-hmm.

And if this has been your right or die buddy, your best friend for going on in a decade, he's earned the right for a face-to-face man-to-man conversation. Definitely. Don't make the same mistake I did going in guns of blazing. Yeah, yeah. Because at least in my case, I was wrong. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Cool. That definitely, that's a definite clarification to it. Because when I first heard that, I was not in the mental capacity to deal with that, I was just so angry. I know, but your friends, your friends deserve your anger, too. Yeah, certainly. And they deserve your celebration, too.

That's the definition of a friend. Can you say the hard stuff too? Can you save the dark stuff too? And can you celebrate together? That's what a friend does. It's all three of them. Certainly. Yeah, when you get out the phone call, dude, set up a time to go meet with him tonight.

I will. And at least give him a chance to hear himself out. I think he's earned that. Friends are worth the benefit of the doubt. And then if he says he confirms everything, like, yeah, dude, this and this and this. then you take 24 hours and you got some choices to make some decisions to make about the men you want in your life Right

I'm not in the habit of hanging out with men that pressure women to do things And to make accusations against women and who violate value Like I don't hang out with those dudes Right And it's right to be sad If this has been a buddy that you found out when things got hard Who he really was That's hard for him

Right Yeah Yeah, I was a certainly a tough night when I heard all that. Yeah. And for clarification, I've got friends on both sides of that issue. Close friends on both sides of that issue. Yeah. And so that's not necessarily a deal breaker.

The deal breaker is, can we be honest with each other? Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I wish you the best, my brother. Make that phone call. and then go go hug your buddy and then stare him eye to eye

and you'll have a hard conversation tonight. And if you need to leave tonight, look at him in the eye and say, never, ever lie to me. I'm your friend. Mm-hmm. Cool? Yes, sir.

All right, man. It's been an honor talking to you. I wish you the best. Let me know how that conversation goes. And if he wants to holler in, I'd love to talk to him too. We'll be right back. I can't even believe that I'm saying this,

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That's montananife company.com. All right, Kelly, am I the problem? All right, so this is from Matthew in Oklahoma City, and he writes, Dear John and Kelly and team You always add that It's right here in writing This can be Oh we'll skip that part

Blah blah blah blah blah My wife and I have been married For just under two years We were both 23 We've gotten to travel a few times Just the two of us To various national parks To hike and camp

And we love that type of travel But we are also saving For future years When we can travel abroad together as well My mom wants to take us Traveling quote Anywhere in the world That excites us

but one at a time so that she can get to know us individually and so that she doesn't feel like a third wheel. Are we the problem for not wanting to see parts of the world apart from each other? No. How do we communicate the appreciation for a trip offer but not a desire to travel to places

that we would only get to see once but without our spouse? That's divide and conquer. That's not getting to know one person. Getting to know one person is like my dad and my wife used to go have like Chinese food every, like when we first got married, They went out once a week when I was, like, in class or doing, like, I think I was when I was coaching and I had games, they would go out and have dinner.

That's getting to know each other, right? Like, that's hanging out. I want to take you to Italy for two weeks while you stay at home, just like, that's divide and conquer. I'm out on this one. What do you think? I might be overjudging it, but this one just doesn't sit right with me at all. I agree. I mean, my late mother-in-law, I would have happily gone anywhere with her because we would have had a great time.

But that was also, you know, us being married for 20 years. and she was delightful, but she never would have said, I want to take you both somewhere, but I want to do it separately. She never would have offered that. I mean, she just, she never would have thought that way.

It might have been like a girl's trip or something. But yeah, I think it's super weird to say, I'll take you anywhere you want to go in the world. One at a time. But without your spouse, which that's the kind of thing you want to share with your spouse.

Yeah, to me it's really weird. Yeah, dude. I don't know if she has nefarious, like, motives about it. but it's weird regardless. Even if it's not, I'm trying to divide and conquer, it's still weird. Yeah, I'm out with an O-U-T on that one. If you want to get to know each other,

go hang out on a regular basis in consistent chunks. Not. And doesn't she know her son? No, I've got to really get to know. That's what I'm saying. This thing's whole thing sounds shady. She's the real shady. Yes, she's the real shady.

all the other slim shadies they're just imitating I don't want to talk bad about your new mother-in-law but run run that's all I got to say about that I don't know that's D4 what do you think about that one

way in homie um yeah it feels weird to specifically say hey your spouse is not invited like to call it out like I don't know I wouldn't have made that call.

I'm going to get us in trouble. Let's bounce. Love you guys. Stay out of trouble. Bye.