The Dr. John Delony Show - Crisis Expert: The Best Way to Respond to Moments of Crisis (With Dr. Andy Young)

Episode Date: August 19, 2024

On today’s episode, John sits down with Dr. Andy Young to talk about crisis intervention and how to help those who are hurting. Next Steps 👮‍♂️ Learn more about Dr. Andy Young. 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future             ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation   Offers From Today's Sponsors ·      10% off your first month of therapy at BetterHelp ·      3 free months of Hallow  ·      25% off Thorne orders  ·      20% off Organifi orders with code DELONY ·      25% off plus two free pillows at Helix Sleep ·      $350 off Pod 4 Ultra at Eight Sleep  ·      40% off Cozy Earth products with code DELONY ·      20% off DeleteMe with code DELONY     Listen to More From Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 The EntreLeadership Podcast   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. And I think my total time in the car in the backseat with him was maybe 45 minutes. But it's a long 45 minutes sitting in silence with someone who is trying to comprehend the death of their wife and just weeping. I'm here and I'm just looking for anything that I can do. And if there's nothing I can do, then my prayer is help me not make it worse. Yeah, don't make it worse. What in the world is going on? This is John with Dr. John Deloney's show.

Show about your relationships, your mental and emotional health, your physical health, whatever you got going on in your life. Do not miss this episode. This is an episode that's been a long, long, long time coming. And I am more thrilled about this episode than probably any other episodes I've had. And here's why. I invited my mentor, the guy who trained me on crisis response, the guy who's my

psychology professor back in my undergrad, the guy who I sat with after miscarriage one and two and three, the guy that's just been with me every step of the way, Dr. Andy Young, Andrew T. Young, as they say. He was a psychology professor, a grad school professor for a quarter century. And he also has been partnering with police departments and leads the crisis response and victim services units at a number of different departments in Texas. And has now left the university and trains police departments all over the United States from New York to Texas, everywhere, all over the place. One of the best in the business and a pioneer in creating mental health approaches to taking care of hurting people in local communities. It's amazing.

But more importantly, he's my friend. And here's a big important thing about this episode. This is not good for kids, not appropriate for children. And we talk about some of the call-outs that we had, the scenes that we've gone through and things that we've been a part of. And so if you've got a sensitivity to, I don't want to say graphic, but some pretty clear explanations on some situations that we've both been through, then this may not be for you,

but it's definitely not for kids. But I do think it's a really important listen. As one of the things we talked about in this episode, I would drive home at one, two, three, four in the morning down a neighborhood road in a suburban neighborhood after having just dealt with a wild, brutal, heartbreaking situation in a home. And I just thought, man, nobody knows this happened in their neighborhood. So these calls are happening in your neighborhoods. People are hurting your neighbors. And we talk about

how to deal with political issues, how to deal with hurting people. What are the steps you take when you're sitting down with someone who's hurting, struggling, their world's blown up and you're going to get to meet with my coach, the guy, one of my 101 coaches, man.

And so thank you so much for listening to this. He also has a book out called Fight or Flight. He's got another book out called Whenever Your Word Counts and we'll link to all that stuff in the show notes,

but we don't talk about his books on the show. We just talk about how to be somebody who shows up in the lives of others. So thank you so much for sitting and just kind of digesting, metabolizing, and being with me and Dr. Andy Young in this important conversation. I want to start talking about a situation that happened where you ended up in the backseat of the car with a young man who kind of the whole world blew up. Okay. So the gentleman who was driving in the car with his wife. With his wife, yeah.

Yeah. And they got in a feud. Do you know what the fight was about? Yes. The fight was about family drama. Okay. Yeah. Jealousy.

Okay. Yeah. So there was jealousy between the two of them. She got angry enough to get out of the car. It was 30 minutes before the New Year. Oh, so this is New Year's Eve. New Year's Eve, driving around town. We get in a fight over family things.

That's never happened to any of us. Exactly. Ever, right? She gets out of the car. He kind of drives off, but it's January. It's cold. He comes back. And so she is walking along a two-lane road into traffic.

He is on this lane, and he pulls over. He's like, come on, get back in the car, whatever. And she's like, okay, fine, and steps into the lane of traffic. Car going the speed limit, which was 50 or 55, just knocked her out of her shoes. And so he watched it and was there as she died. I got the call right after midnight, show up on scene. I'll tell the funny parts too.

Hopefully it's not too jarring. I show up on scene and they got the road funny parts too. Hopefully it's not too jarring. I show up on scene and they got the road blocked off and I see a car over there. I'm like, oh, I guess that's where my victim is. So I'm supposed to check in with officers before I do my thing, but I just got ahead of myself. So I start heading to this car and I hear over my shoulder, Andy, get out of there. I'm like, that's kind of weird. Somebody's messing with me. So I continue on, and then I hear the cop authoritative voice. Andy, get out of there.

I'm like, Roger. And I go away. Two cars, foop, foop, come up. Felony stop on the car. Pull the guy out. He's got gun warrants or whatever, totally unrelated to anything. The guy just got stopped at the perimeter, and somebody ran his plate. And so I was totally in the wrong spot.

So you have a whole scene happening. Oh, and you walked into the wrong scene. I went to the wrong. The scene unfolded in front of me. Wow. Yeah. And they're like, no, Andy, your victim's over there. Oh, man.

So I walked down the street. They're like, yeah, the husband of the deceased is in the back of this patrol car because it's cold. Is he freaking out? Or just kind of shell shocked? I get into the car he doesn't uh look at me doesn't record i mean no uh yeah no recognition everybody there he's just looking out the window of the car and the car is too close to the scene so there's her purse and there's her shoes and stuff like that ems had uh scooped her up and take her to the hospital but

yeah no and so he and uh he's just repeating it can't be true it's just repeating, it can't be true. It can't be true. It can't be true. And I'm like, boy, I don't say a word. Just sit there next to him. I think I actually have the in-car camera of this whole exchange. I've used it in class teaching crisis intervention. And how am I to insert myself into this man's world and reality right now he's still trying to get and we've talked about this just trying to get my mind around my new reality and so I just hold what you got yeah didn't even introduce my name uh at some point I think he uh turns to me and says I just want to go home yeah and I'm like sir I get that and in the back of my mind I don't want to be the one who's restraining

this man here but i know the police are going to want to talk to him about what happened he's a witness blah blah blah i'm like i'm sure the officers will talk to you as quickly as they can get you home is there anyone at home is there anyone i could call that kind of stuff because i don't want this man to be alone and he's like, no friends, no friends. He's like, no, no, no, no. I'm like, oh, boy. Then he goes back to looking out the window, and it usually goes in a circle. Loops and loops and loops. It can't be true. I can't believe this. Ask a question. Doesn't even look at me, but he's there, and then we lose. And so it's circular. And so knowing that is kind of helpful. He just, all right, I'll just be here while he's at the bottom of the circle trying to

comprehend his new reality. And I think my total time in the car in the backseat with him was maybe 45 minutes. But it's a long 45 minutes sitting in silence with someone who is trying to comprehend the death of their wife and just weeping uncontrollably and sometimes kind of hitting himself in the face. And this is kind of jarring, but I'll throw it out there. I was taught that my safety is more important than other people's safety. And if you have to choose, you don't sacrifice yourself first. Don't drive too fast to a call and die. So now we have two wrecks.

Don't get assaulted on the call because the cops have a lot going on, stuff like that. So I'm sitting in the back of this patrol car, and I've got abnormally long legs. And so the prisoner's shield is just right there. So I'm all, because my femurs are too long. And I got my foot in the door because I'm in the back of a patrol car, and that locks you in. And I'm like, I don't want to be locked in with a stranger. I trust him, but you never know, blah, blah, blah.

So I'm just all kind of, and he starts hitting himself in the face, like, it can't be true. Come on, get yourself together. And I'm like, I don't know this man. Do I put my hand on him? Art as much as science? Yeah. So I spent my time with this gentleman.

I don't think I ever even introduced myself. Then they wanted to take him to the police department, give a statement. I waited outside. He came out. His brother picked him up. So apparently he did that. There was someone, yeah. But, but you know, the memory and I never saw the man again. So it's kind of an anti-climax, but I think it does really embody the nature of walking with somebody through the valley of the shadow of death, especially when they're a stranger that, you know, I'm here and

I'm just looking for anything that I can do. And if there's nothing I can do, then my prayer is help me not make it worse. Yeah, don't make it worse. You were the person that I called and that Sheila called when my wife, when we were going through that season of miscarriage after miscarriage. And as we sat with you and we talked about last night, like when the third pregnancy, which became the third miscarriage in a row, she has an ectopic pregnancy and it ruptures. And my wife's a scary, tough West Texas farm girl, and she's like, this isn't happening. I got this.

So she almost bleeds out in the house and gets to the hospital in time. And our mutual friend, Jennifer Fye, was the doctor and was just like – Anyway, I remember sitting in those little – it's like this room. It's like a cell, right? The waiting room. It is like a jail cell. And there's nobody in there. And I'm waiting for them to come out and tell me my wife had died.

And a mutual buddy of ours, the big tall rancher, comes in with his hat on and sits down by me and said no words. Right. One hour, two hours, just silent. Right. And then when they came in and said, hey, we saved we lost a baby we saved your wife i exhale and he started crying tears i didn't have yet yes but both of those stories so i went to a ton of grad school i went to a do all like what do you say and how do you do it all the drills and all the training right and one of the most common questions i get um last night last last night after we got done with dinner, on the phone with the parents of a teenager in our, you know, extraneous circle, who's going through some hard stuff and said some things and just gets all the balls rolling, right?

Sure. everybody wants to know what to say, and I don't want to make the call. Hey, we'll call Deloney because he'll call. I don't know what to say. I don't know how to say it. I don't know what to do. So you end up either with these pithy, what I call hurtful, stitched-in-a-pillow sayings, or you say nothing. So how do you talk to somebody? How do you teach somebody? Sure.

Often the most valuable thing you can give another human being is just your presence. Don't say anything. Right. So our training, Carl Rogers, founding father of counseling, he really emphasizes the power of a calm, empathetic presence. And that's real easy for people to underestimate, that the fact that you're there, the fact that you're caring. My wife mentioned a dinner last night. She's watching me work a jumper call out, and she's just sitting in the car praying. Thank you. Because this is horrible.

And so, at least for me in teaching this stuff, it's trying to help people change their mindset that I have to do something. My wife is a fixer. Someone's crying, I hand them a tissue. When I was an intern, you know, the supervision and we all throw rocks at the tapes of us doing our job. One of my first tapes, I got a tech student whose boyfriend cheated on her. She's in there crying. First thing I do is grab the tissue and try and make her feel better. My supervisor stops it and goes, Andy, what are you doing? And I pulled the answer out of my ear because I'm just an intern. I was like, trying to help a girl who's crying. He's like, what did you communicate to her when you handed her a tissue? I was like, oh, I communicated

suck it up, stop crying because it makes me uncomfortable. He's like, exactly. Is it helpful for a grieving person to get it out? Yes. Can you be a safe environment for that person to do so? Can you not get in the way of her tears? Roger. Yeah. So it's helping people kind of check themselves and let it play out.

It's really hard to let something go when you don't know where it's headed. And it's easy to assume this is going to get worse instead of better. So it's been helpful to me to remember, all right, it was probably circular as a part of, as opposed to, oh, it's going to get so much worse, and I can't even handle this. What if it gets, you know, so. Well, and Kelly and I have talked about it.

Kelly went through a bout of breast cancer, and obviously she's still here. But we talked about how often people have illnesses like cancer or they lose somebody. They find themselves in a caretaker role because everyone in the world can't handle. Right. Like they'll see somebody at church and they'll just come up and start sobbing. Right. Or at the grocery store and they're like, oh, I got to make sure you're okay.

I'm here for you. Right. And so it's been my experience. The greatest gift is can I show up to someplace and be still? And I'm a talker. I talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. It's, okay, I'm in this situation. The best thing I can do, the greatest gift I can give is something you taught me back in the day.

And I remember how unnerving it was for people when I was working in university. Someone would come running into my office and say, so-and-so is cutting or so-and-so said they're going to kill themselves. And I'd always walk. Yep. And a sentence you gave me, gave us all when you were training us was calm is contagious. Yeah. And if I go running down the hallway going, I bring my crazy to an already chaotic moment. Right.

How do you teach somebody to be calm? Is there some practices or is there some? Sure. Well, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is mindfulness or anything related to it. As a father, I go to, we got to learn to regulate our emotions and our thoughts. So all different paths to the same place. You're a seven year old just like, I want ice cream. Right. Yeah. And so be it, I want ice cream or I want to help somebody and fix somebody or holy crap, what am I going to do? Or this is unnerving and now I'm unnerved. You need to be able to give somebody something that they don't have in this moment.

And if you're in the same spot, now you're part of the deal and we got to get somebody else in route. And it's also important to remember that guy sitting in the back of the car or me in that moment. Yeah. What's funny is my memory is that nathan said nothing yeah i don't know if that's actually right yeah because what i do know is i'm not absorbing contextual information no you got your bell wrong that's right and that guy in the back of the car

that got in a fight with his wife and just saw her get hit by a car and she's dead now he anything you tell him no he's not computing that. He will absorb peace. Exactly. Or he'll absorb chaos. One of those two. He'll get up, he'll get ramped up, or he can get, reminds me of a story. Yeah. So stories are good. I get called to the completed suicide of a 15-year-old. Friends called it in. It was right down the street from the university so I got there real quick me patrol in the front yard my partner shows up the friends who had called it in are over there so I send my partner over there officer says parents are en route we're gonna have to tell them what happened you know death notifications are really tough And this car, you can see it, it's coming quick.

I'm like, all right, there they are. And so we all kind of line up in the driveway. Dad gets out, mom gets out, police officer tells him what happened. Mom just right there in the driveway, dad takes off like, and so I throw my little intern at him. You take care of dad. And I am in my, I'm a professor outfit. And I just sit on the driveway with her in the heat and say nothing. Dad does flybys. He looks angry, doesn't say anything, flies away. My little intern is like, no, no, no. He does that a few times.

I got the angry vibe. And so first thing I said to this wife was, ma'am, would you like us to leave you alone, give you your privacy? It seems your husband's a little agitated, whatever, because that was the first thing I said to her after sitting on her driveway. She turns to me and goes, I don't know who you are, but don't leave me. Roger, sit back down. Yeah, sit back down. Yeah. So just to illustrate the point.

It was just. I said nothing. I sat on the driveway and let this woman try and get her faculties about her and was there. And kind of like you looking at me, I'm looking at her like, what are we doing? And then I'm thinking, that's too much eye contact, Andy. Look at the ground for a little while. I don't want to make her uncomfortable. Yeah. Well, and I think it's also important for folks to know we had a situation here where I was walking in the bathroom.

And Dave was on the radio. And he is a savant when it comes to there's something behind the something behind the something. So he's talking to somebody who's asking a question about selling our house. Yeah. And he gets some sixth sense and he says, man, are you safe right now? And in a very – she just – in the same – she goes, no, no. And he said, are you in danger right now? And she's like, yeah.

But it's a – she's wise enough to not change anything. Oh, my goodness. And I just happened to be walking to the bathroom. Yeah. And Kelly's sitting there on the phones and she pulls her headset off. She goes, this one, right? So they go to commercial break and – Dude, you're a negotiator at this point. We're on the phones, and she pulls her headset off. She goes, this one, right? So they go to commercial break. Dude, you're a negotiator at this point.

We're on. Yeah, it's on. And it is, this guy's got my baby, and they're about to back out, and he's going to kill me. And so Kelly and her team are trying to find police, and where is he? And they did an amazing job. The police did an amazing job. But there was a – it worked out well yeah and you know as well as like in those moments i found out who the first person she ever slept with was and i

she just starts talking and you're kind of laughing and i need you to get out of the car but i also so there was it worked out well she ended up okay the police got the bad guy they dave paid for her to get a lot of care. It was amazing. Brilliant. And there was also a lot of trial and error going on in that, right? Sure. So I've been in those situations a lot, and I think it's good to know that if you show up and your friend's not well,

and you're trying to sit in their presence, and you're like, I don't know if I look down, look up. Those of us who do that all the time do that too, right? It makes me think of my biggest mistake. Yeah. Call. all the time sure do that too yeah right it makes me think of my biggest uh mistake yeah call uh completed suicide of a high school student i show up on the driveway lieutenant says family sitting in the living room son hung himself in his bedroom go three in the morning i walk in dad's on the couch mom's in a lazy boy, brother's over here, don't say a word, just sit down, silent. Mom turns to me, my paraphrase, I didn't see it coming. He seemed a little sad, maybe a little depressed, but it didn't really match up with this.

My training is the best thing you can do, the least harm you can do is just to paraphrase it back to him. So I went there, I just said it back to her. Dad loses it, climbs my tree. What kind of doctor are you? I'm like, how does he even know I'm a doctor? So he's like, all right. Then he sits back down. It's quiet. I apologize, sir. I didn't. Sorry. Oh, I don't know what kind of doctor you are. And even the mom and the son are like, dad, he's just trying to help.

I don't know what kind of doctor you are. I get F-bombed. Yeah, yeah. Loved it. Yeah. He chills out again. I'm like, I don't think I'm going to be a lot of help here. Yeah.

It's like, sir, would you like me to leave? Yeah, I'd like you to leave. I'm like, get out of the. Roger. Yeah, roger yeah i leave i'm going to my car selfishly i'm like it's 3 a.m i gotta work in the morning i get to sleep some then i stop i'm like emmy's gonna show up body bag gurney all that stuff there might still be something for me to do i stand on the porch like some peckerwood yeah one of the cops comes out. He's this guy. He folds his hands. He looks at me.

He goes, so what'd you do wrong? Yeah. Thanks, Sully. I really appreciate that, buddy. You tell me. I don't know how I set this off. He's like, I don't know either. He goes back inside.

Lieutenant comes out. He's like, what happened? I'm like, bro, if you can find out, I would love that. He's like, all right, well, let me figure it out. Friend shows up. ME shows up. He's like, Andy, what are you doing out here? Because we've stood over a few dead bodies together.

I'm like, I just got kicked out. And she's like, my job's going to be real hard if you're getting kicked out. Lieutenant comes back out. He's like, I figured it out. I'm like, okay, cool. What's the deal? He's like, well, I introduced you to this family. It's Dr. So-and-so or whatever.

Friend just told me that uh the husband uh probably threw your doc out because he's upset about there being an affair with a doctor in the history here oh so it has nothing to do with me so another piece of this is you show up and do your best but it does it could go wrong there's so much else there that you don't know about and you can inadvertently touch it it's not your fault And then you get all the consequences of it. And I've had to learn to be okay with, I'm bearing the consequences of all the people in your life who did you wrong.

And it's not my fault, but we get to work through that together too. So it's multi-layers and disorienting. Yeah, two of the time I spent with you guys, you and your team, the two major lessons that I walked away with was there can't be any ego in helping other people. Right.

I'm not there to save the day so that I saved the day. Right. There is a mom whose four-year-old is dead in that room. Right. The job is if I can play one piece of a puzzle, getting her to a little bit more of a, right? This is a 25, 30, 40-year journey she's on now. Exactly.

And if I can be a part of, say, and start your engines. Right. But my ego wants to see her smiling and laughing again, and that's not my deal. Yeah. That was a huge one. Yeah. And the other one was the anxiety. I walked around and started like, what happens?

What happens? And you sit with enough moms. Yeah. You're a huge one. Yeah. And the other one was the anxiety. I walked around and started like, what happens? What happens? And you sit with enough moms. Yeah. You're like, oh, this is what happens. This is the worst case. And so now I can go live my life.

It was a, it was a strange freedom. Exactly. It was a strange freedom. I do my job. I know my part. I know what's not my part. Check my ego.

Yeah. This show is sponsored by Better Help. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around than we want to. We do this at work.

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It's this world where everybody's afraid to say anything. And nobody wants to do anything, so nothing happens and fear fear yeah fear and one of the things you taught me early on was say the thing say it directly and with compassion but say the thing whatever the thing is right and it has been staggering um i think you were the lead teacher in one of the courses I took on suicide intervention. And I remember there was a big loop-de-loop and try this. And then the end question was, has anyone just asked that guy if he's thinking of killing himself? And it was like, oh, that should be a question. All right.

So I've got to a place now where I had the conversation last night. Are you planning on like, and my heart rate doesn't get up. It's not a weird thing. That's a question that melts people. Yes. Did you have an affair? Melts people. Or,

you and I have both been, and you've a thousand times more than I have. Mine was just one or twice, once or twice, where you're listening to somebody who's really trained in these things fumbling through a, well,

it was a dark and stormy night, right? And it's like, your husband was in a wreck and he has died, right? And it's like, let's get to that thing. Because the moment somebody opens the door and sees this, they're in fight or flight. They're not hearing anything, right? Right. How do you teach somebody, say the thing?

Yeah. Right? And speak as little as possible, but speak directly. And the phrase you taught us was, fax your friends. I'm going to say the thing and I'm going to tell the truth. I'm going to tell what I know and what I don't know. And then we're going to go from there. Yeah. There's been more than one time walking up to a house with a police officer and we're about to do a death notification. And while we're walking up, the officer's like, how do we do this? Yeah. So the door is open for

teaching in that moment because we're about to get hit by a train or whatever. And so my 60-second tutorial has been, I mean, you've outlined it. Your job, sir, because you know what happened and they didn't, is to say that as quickly, as efficiently as possible with the compassion and empathy. You are going to be hurting for them, and your empathy is actually going to kind of get you in the way because they haven't gotten caught up to where we are yet. So you got to get them caught up. So say it clearly and concisely, and you're going to have to get to the punchline, and you're going to have to say the words, and nobody wants to say the words. We had a call out once. Our friend got killed. One of our guys on the negotiating team didn't know what happened yet. My team leader met him in the street and he's like, all right, boss, what do I need to do yet? And he's like, hold on. You don't know about Josh yet, do you? He's like, no, what are you talking about? And my friend artfully articulates,

I did not want to be the guy to say this. I distinctly have been, right before you knock on the door, I'm about to wreck this person's whole life. There's a before and after. I'm about to play that part. And if I wait 30 more seconds to knock on this door, they get to keep their life. I don't want to be that guy. And so there's some coming to terms with you're the guy, however you want to make sense of that. But you got to be okay with I'm the guy in this moment, and you need to embrace that. And part of being the guy is I get to say it clearly and concisely,

and then I got to punctuate it because they just got their bell rung. Your husband is deceased, whatever that means. And then we wait and see how we can help them as they absorb what we just told them. And some people scream. Some people drop to the floor. Some people turn around and act like it didn't. Right. This can't be true.

Yeah. It's a ping't. Right. This can't be true. Yeah. It's a ping pong. Right. Yeah. And I can't forecast for you what happens next, but we've kind of covered here's our best that we can give somebody as they are absorbing. My wife almost died, but she didn't. Yeah. My son, daughter is not going to be part of our family.

You know, that's a lot. So take it out. That's a unique context that most people will never experience. Or they may go through it once, right? Right. The next layer and the next layer is you find out your friend's wife's having an affair. Yeah. Here's one that impacted me that I didn't catch.

My buddy Kevin, he's about 10 years older than me. We were getting off the phone one day, he's about 10 years older than me. We were getting off the phone one day. This is probably 10 years ago. And, uh, he said, Johnny, I want you to know that I love you. And I started laughing. I was like, Nope, we're not, we're not doing that. Right. Um, silly feelings. Yeah. You can take your feelings and, uh, um, but as I reflected on it, I realized how few people in the world tell me that right how even fewer people i tell them yep and my dad was a homicide detective raised by a world war ii vet who was raised by a dad who died at 10 right it's not a part of how we do things my

father was an aerospace engineer uh yeah, same. It's same. And when I would get home from college and park my car, the next morning my dad was out getting the oil changed. He was saying I love you with all of his actions. Right. Behaviorist communication. There you go. That's what we say here, behaviorist language. What was he telling you?

But then I had the privilege for a few years sitting with folks who would do anything. They would have mortgaged the house we were sitting in for one more playback so I could just make sure you know what I think about you before I get this news. And so talk to the single mom. Talk to the dad. Like this, the tough guy dad who just wants to be a better dad. Like there is power in saying the thing, whatever the thing is, right? No kidding. And getting to the point. Right.

Get to the point. Right. Get to the point. Yeah. And so we've been hammering away at life-changing, horrible point. So I'm glad we're kind of pivoting to life-changing, positive stuff. So my dad, similar thing, just never said it. I knew it was there, never said it. I have a 10-year-old son now. I'm leaving to go on a trip

and just took a few minutes. Hey, I'm going to miss you. Keep in touch. Love you. Just said it. That was never said to me. As I'm walking out of the room, it just kind of clicked. I've never been given that. And when you've never been given that, you have some sense of the impact that it might have on a little boy, he'll never know what it's like to not have that. And what kind of privilege is it for me? Though it wasn't given to me, I was able to cobble this together and give it to him. To hand it off. And so I was bragging to you, my daughter is 13 and never been bullied. It's glorious. My son has been given a gift that I was never given. So hopefully people

who have never been given it can see the value of it. And then they can make the leap to, ooh, giving this to somebody else, even though I never had it and I got worked through my pain, giving it to somebody else might be good for them and might start me on my healing too. That's right. Well, and I have to walk through telling my young son – I remember after a lecture in grad school about the nerve endings in the face and how touching the human face has something – a reset on your nervous system, right? So I immediately extrapolated that like I'm going to start touching my son on his face and telling him I love him. And it was this moment of I would do that and I would feel awkward and weird. Dude. Because I don't have a model for it. I don't have a picture for it. Right. And it was this moment of I would do that and I would feel awkward and weird. Dude.

Because I don't have a model for it. I don't have a picture for it. Right. And then I would feel ashamed that I felt weird that I just did a thing that I should be able to do. Right. So then the tendency I have is to never do that again. Right. I don't want to feel awkward. Because it feels bad.

Right. And then it's like, no, no, no. When it comes to being a dad. Right. Especially in the modern era, right? It's like, you will go do hard things. Right. True. For me, the hardest thing isn't lifting weights and going to MMA practice

the hardest thing is looking at my son who now we're eye to eye and still holding his face and saying I love you well and part of that is how do I work through my own awkward feelings I like being a master of something before I show it to other people and if I wait on that my kid's going to be out of the house

exactly and so alright I gotta take my medicine my kid's going to be out of the house. Exactly. And so, all right, I got to take my medicine and be bad at this in front of people. Yeah, yeah. I hate that. Yeah. But I don't know another path other than directly through the awkward feeling. No. Right through it. Trying to help somebody with anxiety.

What's the best way to deal with anxiety? Right through it. Go face it. Yeah, yeah. What's the best way to deal with awkward and I don't know how to tell my son I love him? Once a day for 30 days and all of a sudden you might get better at it. Right, right. I was with a couple a few months ago and I looked at the guy and I said,

when's the last time you said I'm sorry? And he said, I don't say that. There we go, man. I was like, what do you mean you don't say that? He's like, she doesn't need that. Yeah. And I was like, I don't know y'all, but a hundred,

like everybody needs that, right? Sure. But it's finding that I, maybe all the way back to, yeah, hey, you got to call your brother

because you just got a call from just this morning. One of my closest friends in the world just sent a text that said my mom passed and she had Alzheimer's. They were waiting for it.

It's going to happen. Sure. He said, I'm a mess. I can't talk, but just want y'all to know. There we go. But he said as directly as possible.

Yes. My mom just passed period. All right. And so that, that you'll have to make that call. Yeah. Um, you'll have to tell people that you love them.

Yep. You'll have to tell people that you're sorry. You have to tell people, I appreciate the job offer, but I'm not taking it. I watched my, uh, mom do something for my grandfather,

my father's father. And he didn't say thank you afterward. My mom called him on it. Because this long history, why don't you tell people thank you? He had an answer just like that. The thank you's implied, you know. And I watched my mom correct him. Anyway. Yeah. But also the reverse, when I was leaving Texas to move to Nashville. And as you know, as a Texan, they train you like Al Qaeda is waiting at the Arkansas border. If you leave Texas, it's all coming down. And I remember I asked my dad, who was 70, to meet me in a coffee shop outside Abilene, about two hours away. And it was just a quick, I just need you to know you did a good job with us. That was the first time I ever seen my dad get choked up.

Nice. But it was those, it took me two hours to get the courage to say something that I believe with all my heart. Right. Right? But it's, you can say the thing. Right. Say it. Put a period at the end of it.

That's right. And it's very hard to not want the response you're looking for. That's the ego part. I can't control the outcome here. I'm going to do the next right thing. I'm going to do my part. I'm going to sleep at night, and I'm going to be a better person because I did what was in front of me to do. It's really hard not to be tied to the outcome, but as a crisis counselor, hostage negotiator, whatever, I love the metaphor from an FBI guy, Vince D'Alfonso.

You can tell people and teach people how to land the plane, but they gotta land the plane. So I tell my dad I love him. I've never done that before, and he's like, you're a sissy. He walks off. That's on him, buddy. My dad talked to me when I was a really young kid, and so this is just him kind of talking. And I had the privilege

of having a hostage negotiator for a dad. One of the things he taught me as a young guy was to always be cognizant of ears around you. Oh, man. And that came from him and his homicide detective colleagues walking through scenes, and there'd be a reporter on scene. Oh, boy. And there was this dark humor that has to be a part of that

for you to stay sane. Exactly. And I got that intellectually when you're a kid like yeah you got to make funny jokes right it's strange when one of the top 10 hardest i've ever laughed was um i went to a uh seeing a young man had died by suicide sister was in the house and uh she said mom and dad were about two or three hours away so they're coming home yeah and the the head officer on scene had said your job is to meet mom in the in the yard she cannot come in yeah she cannot come in this house yeah sister's

sobbing hears this and comes out and says i need y'all to know you will mom's going to go to jail you will not keep her out of this house. And I was like, well, and she goes, you will not keep my mom out of this house. Everybody's going to go to jail. She's going to assault. She's going to do it. She can't get in this house. Wow.

And so the lead officer looks at me and says, well, it looks like it's you and me. And he pulls out a pair of rubber gloves and hands them to me. And I was like, okay, we're doing it. All right. We're going to go clean this scene up so we can get this body out of here. We can clear the house. So just expedited everything. Let's go.

Good on him. Yeah, it was great. And that was like, all right, we're in it now. So we put on gloves and we start cleaning up this scene and we're cleaning up a really gruesome situation. And it started with one little quip to another quip to another quip to where both me and this officer are unable to move. We're laughing so hard. Right.

And to be clear, you guys are dealing with horrific things, and you're trying to cope with that. That's right. And so it's not laughter like I did at the comedy club the other night. Right. It is almost a – I can't describe it other than my stomach hurt. I'm weeping from laughing so hard. But it's not joyful laughter. It's almost self-protective laughter.

We're cleaning up parts of a person. It's like the gloves. There you go. There you go. How do you navigate your – I don't know. Everybody has self protective responses You say things with your wife when she says something to you And it just happens

Or you start laughing when you get a call Or you start sobbing You don't want to be crying but here it is How do you handle some of those innate What I would call protective measures As your body tries to take care of you Whether you're cleaning up a dead body You're trying to deal with a broken marriage

I've sat with people when they say i've been having an affair yeah and she just starts roaring laughing right right or he just starts sobbing like he's nine yeah in a very it's a jarring way how do you how do you a handle that on your end yes because that's where it starts that's where it starts and b how do you give grace and compassion for somebody's instant response? Because it's easy to judge them on that. Oh, yeah. And I've seen a lot of things

that are very easy to judge from the outside. Telling a gentleman that his wife, it was right before Thanksgiving, your wife died in a car wreck. Well, there goes my Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. Didn't expect that. Yeah, yeah.

I really want to judge your relationship with your wife right now. Right, right. Or maybe it's shock. And so having multiple explanations that you can go to instead of my judgment is always right on the first try. And it's always going to be the most negative spin I can put on that. Right. Partly because I'm a bad person. That's right.

Yeah. been, I can put on that. Right. Partly because I would never say that. I'm a bad person. And I just like, yeah. So, slow in my role, having multiple explanations, trying to be gracious. All right. Well, hopefully he doesn't mean that. Maybe we'll find out later if this is true or not. Maybe this is something. So, multiple explanations for what you're seeing. Be slow to judge. And, you know, for me, I would like people to be slow to judge me. Right. Right? Yeah. And then, I mean, we've hit the theme of how do I regulate myself, be it my emotions, my reactions, or my sense of humor in my mouth. Yeah. Yep.

And being a college professor, telling some of these stories in a class as an example, I have expanded the mechanism in my brain that kind of watches over this. Well, what if that person was standing in this room as you told this story? What if they can hear you? And so I try to carry that. You honor them through the story. Right? The dude's lying in front of me. I went into a house to get the suitcase for the daughter of a man who came at Thanksgiving. He just reached out to her. They were at strength, and he ended up killing himself in her house right before Thanksgiving. I step over this dude, and as I look at him, and his eyes are open, he's looking at me.

I got super mad at what this man just did, and I found that to be very selfish. That's not going to be real helpful for me to have all my emotional reactions right now. I'm going to have to put that aside and deal with that later. I probably shouldn't deal with it with her. And so also the muscle of priority of fire. What do we do first, second, third?

And I'm going to have to be selfless and put that later so be it sense of humor or anger or whatever and what's my audience right now yeah i would be very sympathetic in your instance i'm kind of helping that officer get through this too yeah and that and i have that sense of i i i'm a born people pleaser. There you go. And so how can I help this guy? Because he was a young guy and was clearly – This is not for me. This is a lot, right? Yeah.

They don't – I mean, you talk about it at Academy. Right. It's different when you're – You can smell it. When you're trying to get brain matter down at sync, right? That's right. And it's just not like it is in the movies. That's right.

And I talk about this stuff like I'm an expert, but I've crossed that line just like your instance. And so trying to learn those lessons for the next time. Yeah, yeah. So I made a mistake. I laughed too loud. We laughed too loud. It was disrespectful. I apologize.

And I'm doing what I can to get through this thing. I like what you said about the withholding judgment. The way I've characterized it is I found myself over the years, some guy cuts me off, I instantly make up a story about that guy. Right.

And it's instantaneous. Sure. And it's that guy, those guys who listen to that music, who drive those stupid little dropped Hondas, don't care about anybody

and they all do math. It's just this whole cascade of a story. You're very creative. It has no bearing on reality. Right. Maybe a little bit, but like none. Sure. And what I found with myself is it's my cortisol that spikes.

It's my adrenaline. It's my near stroke. Right. And it has no bearing on that driver. I'm going to pick on you a little bit. Yeah. Sounds like in that moment, you're the type of guy who judges everybody as an a-hole. Oh, yeah. What does that say about you? What does it say about me? Right. And it's-

You're awfully jaded and you're too young for that. Exactly. Well, and is that the lens with which I'm going through the world? There it is. And I get to choose, once I realized, oh, that's a story I just made up about that guy. Right. I can choose another one. Right. Which is? Multiple hypotheses. Dear God, I hope that guy gets to the hospital before his wife dies. There you go. And one of those, just saying that now, my whole body drops.

Whoop. Right? And empathy arises. Right. And one of those is going to help me live longer. One of those is going to kill me. Yeah. And neither of those stories affect that guy's driving.

No. Right? Let's stipulate that he's a complete a-hole. Uh-huh. What does he need from you? What does he need from me? Right. I need to teach him a lesson. Right. Yeah right yeah yeah they don't benefit from lessons anyway exactly so

what's going to help that guy or going back to full circle presence and empathy and maybe a little bit of curiosity like right like what's that driving maybe i could be an example to him too right right as he starts to come up just way you'd be like come on man right and it's okay right yeah and maybe not maybe not but I get to pick that story. Right. And going back to when I tell my wife something, if she instantly gets mad. All right. Maybe I, she said a rough one.

Yeah. Or the example I use with my wife is, hey, I need you to, can you please put those towels? It drives me crazy. Yeah. Like, I'm going to use wet towels. Then the very next morning I walk in and there's wet towels on the floor. I can pick the story. Right. The story is, oh, she's just doing this to rub it in on me because she's, or good God, what is her day must've been. I'm going to go to the dishes right now. Sure. I get to pick. Yeah. I get to pick. I think it benefits us to

be gracious to people. And of course it benefits them. And we also have to trust that if it rises to the level of they're an evil psychopath, a-hole, or whatever, that we'll know that, and then we can start to get our distance. Or if we're in an abusive relationship, hopefully we've got other relationships outside that people say, hey, I'm seeing something that's not good. Yeah. Yeah. We don't have to play defense all the time.

Yeah. All right. Have you ever had seasons of chaos and busyness and madness? And then one of the most stressful things in those days is the fear of going to bed because you know you're just going to lay there and be uncomfortable and have racing thoughts and be frustrated and be hot. Listen, I've found that a key to making bedtime something that I look forward to for great sleep and rejuvenation is creating a peaceful sleep

environment. I call it a sleep sanctuary. And for me and my family, a peaceful sleep sanctuary begins with an end of night routine. And that means cozy earth bed sheets, towels, and pajamas. I love cozy earth's astonishingly comfortable sheets. They're world-class towels and bath products, and my wife is in love with their sleepwear. And Cozy Earth products aren't just comfortable, they're durable. They're smooth as silk and tough as iron. Plus, Cozy Earth offers a 10-year warranty

on all of their bedding. I want you to look forward to going to bed, and I want you to find your peaceful sanctuary with Cozy Earth. Go to CozyEarth.com slash Deloney or use code Deloney for an exclusive discount for up to 40% off. That's CozyEarth.com slash Deloney. And if you get a post-purchase survey, say that you heard about Cozy Earth on this podcast. I want to talk about election anxiety here we are all right we're in the last guy for this i know i know you are and both of us probably are the last guy because we're pretty simplistic about it yeah my hypothesis is election seasons especially over the last three or four elections because they're

so psychotically contentious right insanely. Insanely contentious. Right. Adversarial. Adversarial. Which, competitive is good. Adversarial is nuts. Right. You want to be the starting first baseman when you're the backup. Trying to kill the first baseman

so that you can play is insane. You're the same team. A little Machiavellian. I think my hypothesis is the reason in our country where we've kind of gone mad during election season is we really understand that when it all distills down, I go to the local YMCA and I get one vote. That's all I get.

Well, if that's not enough, though. But all of the news cycle, all of the ginning up is you better, you better. You have to. And I go in and i go yeah that's it right but this seems to be part of your identity yeah so so faced with what is a big deal right what is what appears to be we're going to go that direction in that direction although i'm now getting old enough to where every election is the most important election of all time and if you don't then all of a sudden yeah um i agree what do you tell somebody if they are just starting to sweat yeah like it is i've got a i'm i'm feeling enraged i'm feeling

my body become something that is unnatural to me where's the fear coming from yeah is it coming from the news you kind of covered that part turn it? Yeah. Is it coming from the news? You kind of covered that part. Turn it off. Is it coming from, I went to identity. Tell me about that. I have my set of needs, wants, values, and beliefs. This is me. And when the election ties into who I am, then I am also going to be compelled to, well, I got to do something about it. Not only check a box, but rally and argue and all the rest of it.

And so it really encompasses who I am, not just fear, but identity. And so, again, compels me to do something. The metaphor or the example that comes to mind is I talk to a lot of police officers who have been a police officer for 30 years. Are you a cop or are you a person? Right. What happens when the cop ends? And so I see a similar dynamic. Are you a person or are you a Democrat, Republican? Are you a husband or a wife? So I would encourage people to kind of separate that stuff out because

if you're a Republican before you're a person, that seems out of order to me. And when I've outlined it for people like that, they're like, okay, maybe I should slow down because that is not all of who you are. And if it is, we need to work on who you are. Yeah, because that should be the least interesting part about you. Sure. Right. What else do you got? There you go.

Do you have something more than police officer? Do you have something more than Democrat? If you don't, that might explain why you're so riled up by this thing. That's an interesting point so i'm wondering if um so i talked to someone recently who was resigning from an academic position after a long time okay and they asked like you know what should i and i said before you hit send on your i'm not coming back next year right i want you to have a group of people that you already had said hey every monday night we're going to do x there we go and i want you to have a group of people that you already had said, hey, every Monday night we're going to do X. There we go. And I want you to backfill this because if you don't,

the vacuum will be powerful. Oh, man. Like the vacuum of you are nothing without this. Yep. And so it may be an exposure of look how thin and hollow our actual lives are. That a group of yelling people on the TV is now identified our world for us. Who are they? Yeah.

Right. So I retired out of university professoring after 26 years. I started when I was like 24. Anyway, I had my life outside of it. And to your advice, I had a lot going on. And so it was actually, I probably should have retired a couple years earlier because I had a lot of better things going on. Even with all of that in place, once I left, there was still a hole. I still had a little gap to jump over. And I was surprised by it because I got this.

I'm not a professor anymore. It's past tense. Yeah. I just buried something. It's a quarter of a century. Right. And I started young. So even though I talk this big game, it's still kind of of a century. Right. And I started young. So even though I talk this

big game, it's still kind of me. Yeah. Yeah. And so even when I think I did a pretty good job, you're still going to have to pay a little bit because you were invested because you cared. And so maybe that feeling, that sense of loss or grief is good. It's a right. It's right. Yeah, that's right. And I love that you're invested in our system. To what end, to what point, what's the expense on your part? I think that's right. And I love that you're invested in our system. To what end? To what point? What's the expense on your part? I think that's what we're trying to parse out.

Are you burning all of your relationships to the ground? Are you unable to go to Thanksgiving anymore? Right. Yeah. There might be things. You might have it switched a little bit. And I get it. This is a big, important thing to you.

I understand. But comparatively, maybe we need to have the right proportion and i i i'm always telling folks hey if you already know who you're gonna vote for yeah stop reading we're there yeah you've gotten you've arrived yeah right the purpose used to be we're gonna debate the topics and figure it out i'm on the fence you already know now let's turn it off that advice advice reminds me of my lovely wife who likes to revisit decisions. Right. I'm not like that. I don't think you're like that. And so it's hard for me to help her because her personality is, well, let me make sure I made the right decision. What if something changed? The car's already in your driveway.

What if, what if, what if? I'm not a big fan of what if, and I don't know how to translate that to people like my wife who really are what if-ers because it serves a purpose. Now I know all the angles, so I can't be surprised, fearful. I have some control. I'm like, ha-ha, you think you have control. So then we fight. How do you help somebody that's ruminating in the season? Well, you used the clinical word,

and so I got all the statistics to back up how rumination correlates with anxiety and depression. Right. So are you anxious and depressed? Yes. Well, there's your cause. Right, right. Now, being the master of your own brain is a hard part.

And so that's the most common thing I get. I'll tell people rumination is a waste of your time. It doesn't help. I think Brene Brown calls it dress rehearsing tragedy. Yes. It never plays out that way. No. And you think, I'm going to imagine my wife.

She's out tonight. I'm going to imagine her getting a car wreck and getting a car wreck. I promise you, I've sat with that husband. You can't predict what happens. And I've done the same thing because I do the work. I've put myself in that position. To what end? To what end?

Right. I'm choosing to ruin this moment. Yeah. My heart rates up and I can't work. I put myself in that position. To what end? To what end? Right. I'm choosing to ruin this moment. Yeah, my heart rates up and I can't sleep. Right. Sweet. Yeah, you got it. And so then I have to go through the very boring exercise, just like eating right and exercising, of controlling my brain. I'm not going to think about that.

I'm going to go over here and think about that. And when it knocks on my shoulder and says, you should what if this a lot or remember that time you saw this. I'm like, no, forget your brain. I'm going to go over here and think about that. And when it knocks on my shoulder and says, you should what if this a lot or remember that time you saw this. I'm like, no, forget your brain. I'm going over here. That is just like training a muscle. And I don't know that a lot of people spend time training their minds like that. Well, I don't think most people know you're not your thoughts. Well, now we're at the identity thing again.

And your body is trying to protect you from something might happen. It's doing its job. Sure. And I can then decide I'm going to do something else. I think it was one of the godfathers, maybe Adler. Maybe it was Adler who said, I thought if I took away my clients. I think he used the word patients back then. But if I took away their anxiety and depression, I could cure them.

And instead I made them empty. Yeah. And so there's this idea. People say I can't stop thinking about the affair. I keep picturing my partner in bed with that person. Okay, A, you can decide to stop, but you have to have your wedding day back in there. Or the day I went on that date after you said we're going to make it go this. Like I've got to replace that.

What do you want instead? That's exactly right. And that was an important thing for me coming when, for me and I think we're similar, when the alarm goes, when the text message comes, I think it's real still. I'm fine. It's when I get home and my wife has never moved.

Like, she's asleep, the phone rings, I'm gone for two hours and I don't do this anymore, but back in the day. I come back and she hadn't even rolled over. Right. I hate her. I just had this whole – Yes. Right?

I just cleaned off brains off a bathroom wall of a police officer. And you're sleeping. And she's sleeping, right? But it was the sense that when I would lay it down in bed that I would start going, oh, God. What did I just do? And it's, I'm going to make a choice to not think about that. Right. I'm going to think about –

Yeah. Right? Yes. X, Y, or Z. Do you own your mind or does your mind own you? There you go. Are you a slave to anger or is anger your employee? There you go.

Does anger serve as a purpose for you? Right. Yeah. And so you got to own your mind. And yeah, man, I got 1 million of those. And I just turn it to anger and push her and try and wake her up and lash out at others. So last thing I want to talk about is this one. This one was probably the hardest one for me personally. So I'll talk about the two times we talked about this yesterday.

My two big epic no-no failures when I was with the crisis team. Showed up with the great and powerful Janice, right? Love her. Who was my partner to these two particular call-outs. The first call-out we showed up to was, and we actually had a heads-up on this one, like some discussion. Here's what's coming. But a father had died by suicide suicide and he had taken his life if i remember correctly in the room of his four or five year old son yeah mom comes in to wake up

son finds this body uh hanging there in the room and had to get dad off before son woke up right it was a whole right yeah and then there i think there was four or five kids and so we were brought in there was a team of people but brought in for mom to tell the kids dad is dead. At the time, we're on the back end of three miscarriages. And then we'd accidentally gotten pregnant with Josephine. Yeah. You don't accidentally get pregnant. Y'all know what I mean.

So Josephine's 18 months old. Surprisingly. Yeah. Josephine's 18 months old. Yeah. Ta-da. Josephine's 18 months old. Yeah. I walk into this room, and there's ranging from 13 to a young kid. I just remember the kid had a truck, and mom starts explaining it. Yeah.

13-year-old starts sobbing. It was almost in descending order. 13-year-old starts sobbing. The 10- and 9-year-old kind of look confused. Yep. The little one starts removing his car real fast. Right. And you can tell he's understood he's it's coming out in his body right yes and it's the strangest thing but i knew i got

to get out i can leave this room now yeah i'm out and for a guy that prides himself on i am unrattled loyal and it was out yeah and janice chased me to the parking lot she goes no you're not leaving me in here what are you doing i was I was like, I don't think you understand. I have to get out of this room. And then she saw it and goes, I got you. We talked later and she's like, if you ever leave me, I will beat you. You can't leave.

And then the very next call, in my head, it may be in a few, but the very next call, we get a 10-8-7 call out to a, or a pending 10-8-7 call out. A young child's about to die call out to a or a pending 1087 call out a young child's about to die yeah

head to a hospital and there was a van full of kids in eastern New Mexico and just at a daycare center and they'd gone out on an outing

and the two two toddlers in the very very back seat the kids the teenagers or whoever who had emptied the car had left them

they'd been in the car all day 100 degree heat they just they had just one of them had emptied the car had left them. They've been in the car all day, 100 degree heat. They just, they had just, one of them had died and the other one was about to. And we showed up to the hospital and I remember the parents, they were kids, like maybe 19, 20 years old. They were very, very young, mom and dad. And this, this, you know, that ghost. Oh, yeah. We're lost.

We're gone. And the doctor was pretty amazing as he was talking to these parents and i remember looking over and glancing and i just got done talking to mom and dad and saying we're going to be here and talking them through the abcd and i happened to catch at the corner of my eye they'd shifted the bed and the two-year-old girl's arm moved yeah it was just laying there yep and have it again right i'm out this is too much I get out because I look just like my daughter right right and I looked at Janice and I said we out right and she's like not again I can't I can't at that point yeah it's on me to recognize I'm over my

head prior yeah right I had to make a decision and say and it was humiliating for me to call you or call janiece and say i can't do kids for a season right right i have to opt out right and it's embarrassing for me this is like whatever fast forward um my son had a friend who was going through some hard stuff of all the people in the world to call, you would think the guy that has a show dealing with hard stuff that's a national, right? That my son would be like, oh, I know a guy. Right.

You don't have all the answers? He called a friend's parent. Yeah. And told them everything. All right. Not knowing that everyone in our friend group would just call like, okay, I'll call the guy that knows that stuff.

And there was a moment when my fragile guy that knows that stuff. Right. And there was a moment when my fragile little ego got hurt again. Right. Why not me? What about me? Yeah. And I had to exhale and say, I went and found my son and said, I can't tell you how proud of you I am. Because he called an adult.

There we go. He called an adult. Right. Right. How do you know, what do you do when you're over your head? Whether your kid comes to you and says, hey, I have a friend at school who's thinking about hurting himself, or I just found out my friend is 13 and she's having sex with her 17-year-old boyfriend. Right.

How do you know? There's an ego to it. I'm over my head. I want to be the person for my kid. Right. All things to all men. Yeah. Yeah.

So how do I recognize when I'm over my head? For me, when I look inward, inward one and I see my ego like you said or two I find myself fumbling struggling stop that's a sign all right if I'm struggling in this moment why if I'm short on ammo or knowledge or whatever okay and hopefully I've done my homework and I have somebody I can refer to I've got a friend those relationships yeah right I've got backup or like when you call it's like I can't do this one. That is no problem, buddy. I got 10 other people who I can send out to you. You should not feel any shame. This is not an ego thing. We all have our limits. I think you did say your exact words were, God, what a wimp. I'm

scared. You should have shame. Yeah, yeah. What an embarrassment. And that begs the question that I think all of us need to ask is, do we have people in our life that we trust? Right. Not in case something, but when. When. It will. It will happen. When my friend got shot and killed on an operation

and we still had to negotiate with that guy. Walk through that real quick. That's an important story because you had to do because you had a job to do on top of. Yeah. So a crazy guy with a rifle. We get called out on it. As negotiators are arriving, he ambushes local PD and SWAT. So did he set up the call with the intent to kill people?

Nah, he was kind of crazy. He's out on the front yard. He squeezes off some rounds, barricades up, and then as he sees people setting up, he starts pot-shotting. But I guess I'm hesitant to put my mind into somebody who has a psychiatric condition. What's his reasoning?

I don't know. Yeah, yeah, okay. They get ambushed. My friend gets killed. A couple of my friends get hit. Blech. So we don't know all that, but I start to learn it while we're actively negotiating with that guy, trying to get him out or trying to keep him from not shooting, keep him contained or whatever.

So after the fact, we learn who got hurt, who got killed. And so it comes in waves, and we got to keep working because the call wasn't over right and now i have a another widow uh on my radar after just doing that a year and a half prior so i had a lot going on there yeah um now i lost the point well well just the i've got to have a network of people that i can go oh my goodness so i'm the I'm the guy, I'm the professional that people come to. Everybody comes to you, yeah. And so I got my reactions. I got the people I'm working with that I'm trying to take care of. And then I got a lot of people coming to me as well. And so I had and have to have a chorus of people because part of this is it's so much, I need to say it

again and again and again. And I have, part of my ego problem is I don't like to repeat myself and not be interesting. And so to go to the same person over and over again, I don't care for that. So my fix has been, well, let me have multiple people and I can say the same thing and it's new to them. So I have my wife, that part. I have friends who know the business. I have that part. I have crisis counselors I oversee who are also friends. Hey, let's go to lunch.

I need to cry, and don't tell me about the time you did this too. Right. Yeah, yeah. And it's disorienting to even have to coach your loved ones about how to help you in the midst of needing help. I was really bad and angry about that at first. I was like, you should know because I know for others. You should be able to do this. Right, right, right.

Yeah, yeah. I know for others, you should be able to do this. And that didn't go well either. So having a course of people knowing my limits, in one case, I was able to do the funeral, but I could not do the graveside. I just wasn't in it. And I had to accept the fact that my deceased friend would hopefully understand that. Of course he would. And I had to be at peace with all the judgments of all the people around me. Why isn't Andy there? That's not easy because this is the funeral of all the people around me why isn't Andy there that's not easy

because this is the funeral of a police officer if they're truly my friends they'll hear me out and accept if they're not truly my friends then their opinion doesn't matter I gotta let that go and I have to be humble enough to uh I called a friend I was like yo I'm on full I can't do this and they were a friend. I said, what are you doing? They're like, I'm working traffic at 4th and Indiana. Come out here and stand with us. Show me a route. I'm in a funeral suit. I show up and they put a traffic vest on me and they're like, come direct traffic with me. I'm like, perfect. I'm with my people. I'm doing something other than this. And I'm out there pretending.

But my friends are driving by in the funeral process and they're like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm with my people. I need to be here. Whether or not you can accept that answer. So, man, you talk about overcoming the ego part. And I wish I was better at it because I got all my weak spots too. But if I recognize it, hopefully I'm humble enough to go, the alternative is no good. I have to go the way that's uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I remember, and I'll keep my kids protected, but when I showed up to

one of the local, and again, I've got a lot of, I pretty fortunate obnoxiously but one of the best like uh young person under 18 i'll say oh yeah uh mental health practitioners here with works with kids nice and when i walked in her office she was like what are you doing here and i it was a like i'm out right i've gone as far as i know right help. I am this child's dad, not his therapist. I can't be therapist. Yeah. I'm this woman's husband. I can't be. Right.

Similar to, I've got a buddy who changes oil for a living. Yeah. And when he found out his wife took the car over to Jiffy Lube, it was, and she's like, well, I just needed it done and I didn't want to like, okay, cool. Fine. Fine. Right. But that's ego, right?

That's just ego. Right. I pride myself. There's the. That's it. That's. Fine, right? But that's ego, right? That's just ego. Right. I pride myself. There's the – That's the word, right? I pride myself on being able to do a lot of things for a lot of people. And so, again, identity. If my identity is wrapped up in I'm a Swiss Army knife and I can do it all, I got to reorient myself.

And it's just owning the truth that you will hurt people doing that. Yes, and i have yep yeah yeah and you know people i care about deeply ah it's too far sorry and i did it twice yeah i did it thrice yeah yeah you were gonna say oh it's just like yeah i've think of that more than three times but yeah yeah well dude um, we've talked about this in the intro of the show, but you were one of my professors. You were the worst professor because – It's true. Actually the best, but I remember the fights we had about like,

hey, being an educated person isn't just regurgitating facts. You also have to use – I think you got to where you were taken off a letter grade for, like, apostrophes. And, like, you're an educated person. You've got to learn how to write. Right. And educated means you communicate well and do this well and incorporate this knowledge. And you know the rules.

And you know the rules, right? Yeah. And so – but as one of my professors, as one of the guys who trained me, as one of the guys I went to when I'm hurting, a guy that I still occasionally call, like, hey, I got this call coming. I don't know what to tell this person. Thank you for all of this is because of the influence you've had on my life. And so I'm like deeply grateful, man. Oh, that's very kind.

And I know it's when you're taking those calls at 2 a.m., you're like, here we go again. And you're running through the crisis list and nobody's answering. And you're like, I'll just go myself. Like, just know that my family's different. My whole family tree is not different. And now there's, the joke is 17,

but there are millions of listeners whose lives are different because of the influence you had on my life. So thank you for that, man. Oh, thank you for saying so. I'm so proud that Thorne Supplements, my favorite supplements on the planet, have continued to partner with me and our show listeners for health, longevity, and just feeling good. Thorne is one of our longest standing partners on this show, and it's because I trust them, I use them, I read their research papers, and I know their products are great and that my fans will love them too.

Here's the deal with supplements. There's so, so much garbage out in the marketplace. And other than my admitted gummy candy problem, I'm pretty freakish about what I put in my body. And that's why I trust my health and the health of my family with Thorne. Personally, I've been taking Thorne supplements for years and years, way before I was on the internets with these shows. And my wife and kids have been taking them as well. And here's what I take every single day. I take the super EPA fish oil, the methylated B vitamins, creatine, phosphatidylserine, and more. I take Thorne for specific physiologic needs for me to keep my body and mind optimized and for overall longevity and health. And here's the cool thing. We've set up an amazing opportunity for all of the listeners of the Dr. John Deloney

show. 25% off everything in the Thorne store and not just on your first visit, but every time you make a purchase through our page and our account. This isn't a sale that's going to change from week to week. All you do is go online, create an account through my page, and you'll get 25% off from here on out forever. It's that easy. Go to thorne.com slash you slash Deloney. That's thorne, T-H-O-R-N-E dot com slash the letter U slash Deloney for 25% off everything in the store. I trust Thorne. My family trusts Thorne. And you can trust Thorne too. All right. That was my conversation with my friend and mentor and professor, coach, all of it.

Dr. Andrew Young. Andrew Young. Andy Young. And we're going to link to the show notes. His website is Dr. Andy Young, D-R-A-N-D-Y-Y-O-U-N-G. You can check out his book, books, and again, we'll link to him in the show notes. Just remember when you show up, if it's hurting people and you don't know what to say, say nothing. Just bring you. Yes, you're that important.

I love you guys. If you see somebody who's a first responder in your community, police officer, fireman, mental health practitioner, social worker, give them a hug, shake their hand, look them in the eye and say thank you. They're doing a lot of heavy lifting behind closed doors after hours and year thank you. They're doing a lot of heavy lifting behind closed doors after hours and year long asleep. They do amazing, amazing work. We'll see you guys soon.