The Dr. John Delony Show - Dealing With Shame and Guilt Over Using Porn

Episode Date: December 27, 2021

In today’s episode, we focus on a new father who’s healing from his own severe childhood trauma and a husband who’s drowning in shame after confessing his porn addiction to his wife. I had severe childhood trauma that affects every aspect of my life Dealing with shame & guilt after telling my wife about my porn use Lyrics of the Day: "Please Come Home" - Gary Clark Jr. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we have a long, difficult conversation about parenting, the beauties of marriage, and dealing with childhood trauma. You get to talk to a real hero on today's show. We also talk to a young man who's dealing with pornography addiction and shame. Stay tuned. Happy after Christmas! What's up? This is the Dr. John Deloney Show, and I'm John.

I realize I just dated this show by saying it's right after Christmas, but if you're listening to this show, you made it. Congratulations. Or maybe you're still in it. I don't know. This show airs right after Christmas, right, James? Correct. Cool. Well, I hope you got everything you wanted. I don't even know what that means. I hope you just are having a good time. I hope there was no talk of COVID or politics or anything at your house. And I also know this, this is all seriousness. I know millions of people are dealing with loss of some kind. It's been a tough, tough year. Loss of jobs, loss of friends, family members. I mean, it's just been a year of loss.

And so I know Christmas can be tough, man. You circle back in Christmas and it just kind of weighs on you. So this whole season, I'm laughing a lot about it. That's how I get through tough situations sometimes, just to back up a little bit and laugh at it and then see where I can lean in. So, man, I'm with you. I'm thinking about you. I hope your holiday season's been one of peace and restoration, and you get to bring some smiles and joys to other people's lives.

If you're at home and you are stuck and you just think, I hate all this, go find somebody to serve. Get out of your house, go find somebody to serve and make sure you are still moving your body. Even though it's freezing cold, go for walks, go exercise, make sure you're taking care of yourself. Cool. All right, let's get to Dennis in Milwaukee. What's up, Dennis?

Hey, John, how are you? I'm good, brother. How are you, man? Hey, good. What's up? Hey, so I got a question for you. Sorry, I'm a little bit nervous. Hey, don't be nervous, man. I'm not that good at this show. You'll be the better one on this call, I assure you. What's up? We'll see about that. So I'm super familiar with the process of like mourning relationships that won't be what you want them to be. Okay. And.

How'd you become familiar with that? My, so I got to get breath. So I was born into just a pretty tough situation. And my ASA score is a 10. Oh, wow. Wow. Okay. So you weren't born into a tough situation. You were born into hell, right?

Yeah. Yeah. How old are you now so right now i'm 32 32 okay yeah um how much how much healing work have you done since then um basically every minute of your show and that's about it I appreciate the vote of confidence Dennis but I'm not that good man

you've helped me way more than you'll ever know well I appreciate that man so 32 you were born into the pit of hell and it's still got hooks in you? Yeah, and it comes out just kind of in weird ways. And so right now, I've got a four-year-old daughter and a two-year-old daughter. Okay. Are you married?

Yeah. How's you married? Yeah. How's that going? My wife is just the absolute best. She's everything. That's awesome. How many of these old patterns are showing back up with your little one? As far as my relationship with them, it's phenomenal. I've taken everything my parents have done, and I've done everything. I've destroyed it all, and I just rebuilt everything from scratch.

Now, I wish that I would have had it when I was good. And my relationship with them is just phenomenal. I need to stop, dude, and celebrate you. That's incredible, man. You stared it down. You're staring it down. You'll be staring it down. And you said, not my kids no more,

man. What a brave man. Good for you, Dennis. It's awesome. I appreciate that. So I actually even had a, I had a guy at a, I had a restaurant over the weekend actually stop me and compliment me and my wife separately on just how we're treating our kids and handling them. It was just such a nice thing to hear. That feels good, doesn't it? Yeah. I think I'm— Dude, that's incredible, man. Good for you. All right, so how can I help, dude, that's incredible, man. Good for you.

All right, so how can I help, man? Something popped up? Yeah. So my mom, since she was born, she's lived really far away. Okay. And, uh, part of her situation and how she's treated me has contributed to my past,

but... By living far away, you said that, you said that in a very diplomatic way. Did she leave you when you were a kid? Yeah.

Yeah. Um, is she an addict? No, and I don't know if she ever was, but she had us around people that were very heavily involved. Okay. Was she abusive to you directly? Yeah.

Okay. Okay. And did she let it happen with other people yeah okay did she did she go to jail or she just leave you my uh my mom and dad were in the process of getting divorced when she got pregnant. Okay. And when I was a couple months old, she left. Okay.

I know that you know this, especially looking in the eyes of your four-year-old and two-year-old. That shouldn't have happened, and I'm sorry that happened. Thanks. That little Dennis was worth more than that. And I'm sorry. And so now she showed, she showed back up. Yeah. How'd that happen? Strange. Um, and, and one of the things that makes it complex is every night i tuck my girls into bed and i give them a special touch on the facetime and yeah so i i give them that and i i hug them and hold them and just, it's just the best. Yeah. And it helps me.

But it's hard to, it's hard to look at them and do that and then think back to what was happening to me. Yeah. So here's the thing, brother. You are staring down this forest fire of, and that's just to quote Terrence real. I love it. This forest fire of family trauma. You're a little baby dropped in the middle of hell and you shouldn't have been, but you were, and you have made it your life's mission to grit and flex and become iron in defense of those girls and your marriage. Right? Yep. 100%.

Nobody gets through them. You're even lucky I'm talking to you. Exactly. That's right. And what I'm going to tell you is that has a shelf life to it. That's what I'm concerned about. And the closer you get to see years of when you were abused directly, when you started getting passed around from place to place and house to house

and adult to adult, the closer your kids get to those ages, the more your brain will begin to unspool on you. That's what I'm worried about. My four-year-old, she's starting to ask me some difficult questions. That's right. And my policy is I don't lie to her. Good for you. My policy is also to't lie to her. Good for you. My policy is also to protect her.

Yep. Because I don't want her to ever worry about things that I had to worry about. And I don't want her to, she doesn't need to know that those things exist. But here's the thing, here's the thing. Let me be super clear with you, okay? Can I be direct with you? Is that cool? Yeah, absolutely.

That's why I called you. All right. So tell me if I'm nuts call me out if I'm wrong okay agreed now that she's four there's gonna be moments when you are holding you are have

her little bitty four year old cheek in your hand at night time and there's a little night light on in that room and you're either singing her a song or you're telling her that you love her or she's just babbling on about something that you don't even know she's talking dragons and ponies or whatever and you are feeling that moment and you are a thousand miles away definitely and you think something's wrong with you and you try to get to another thing to do. And this is where your brain plays tricks on you. And it actually, it's not playing tricks. It is

keeping you safe because it has been down this road before. And this road equals torture. Yep. And so in many ways, your brain is at war with itself. And this is, I'm just making up two parts of the brain here. I'm not a neuroscientist, but just for easy math for the casual listener, your frontal lobe knows I need to do these things because my daughters deserve better than what I got. Yep. And your amygdala knows, holy crap, adults and kids equal war. Look out. And so it hides. It is done fighting, and it couldn't flee when you're four or when you're six or when you're 10,

and somebody's sexually abusing you or hitting you or just leaving you at school and not picking you up, whatever crap you went through that you should not have experienced. Your brain knows, uh-oh, shift into neutral. We're out. Picking you up whatever crap you went through that you should not have experienced. Your brain knows, uh-oh, shift into neutral. We're out. And it just freezes. Is that fair? Yeah, we just hit a point at bedtime where I just got to go.

Yes, yes, yes. And my wife can't get out with my two-year-old in enough time. I just got to go. That's right. I feel horrible, but— Well, no, no, no, don't feel horrible. Your brain's just trying to take care of you because it's been down this road before and it doesn't, it just sees bear. It doesn't know that's a nice bear. It just sees bear. Okay. So it's just trying to love you. And this is where, this is where I'm trying to carve a

third path right down the middle of this country. There's a group of people who say you need to suck it up and flex, just do the next right thing. And it's all about, yeah. And you keep your hand there and you tell her you write all that. And that there is some merit to that. You got to keep showing up. And the other story that's told is, well, this happened to you. This is all you're ever gonna be. You just gotta deal with it. And it's just gonna be a thing. And I don't buy that either.

There's a third way and it's both and. Now is the season when the greatest gift you could give your daughters is for you to heal, to stop running, stop hiding and stop trying to fight it and to heal. And what that means is saying some of this stuff out loud for the first time ever in your life. An ACEs score of 10, you've read the stuff, haven't you?

Yeah, and all I ever see about is if you have a score of a four. And I don't see anything. And it's starting to concern me because when you talk about fight or flight, I mean, literally, I won't pull into a gas station if I can't get the first pump where I can get in and get out. That's right, that's right. When I stop at a stoplight, I give space in case I need to run. Exactly. I have no reason to run, but. No, dude, you have every reason to run because the two people on this earth who were supposed to take care of you didn't.

They didn't. You're supposed to run, brother. You are in a similar situation as my friends who are veterans who pull up to a stop sign and they have an escape route already planned because they've been in Fallujah. They know what's coming or their brains do at least, right? That's you, man. You had two people that were supposed to show up and they didn't. They totally left you hanging. And there is, you got to hear me, man.

There is a season where you could show up to a gas station and it doesn't even occur to you that someone's coming after you. You can. You're worried about the price for once. Exactly. Not dying. It's cool just to complain worried about the price for once. Exactly. Yeah. Not dying. It's cool just to complain about gas prices, not murder, right? There is a season where your wife can reach over

during a movie where you're watching on the couch and she puts her hand on your leg and your body doesn't tense up first. How do you know? Okay? There is a season, dude, where the phone rings and you roll your eyes first. Your heart just doesn't start beating.

Yeah. Okay. And here's what I want for you, man. I want you to have that peace. God Almighty, I want you to have that peace. But you got to decide I'm worth healing. And here's where I'm going to be. Can I be unfair to you for a

second? Yeah. Okay. You've done step one, two, and three of the major work for your kids. I'm going to keep doing these things, but what will happen over time is that four-year-old and that six-year-old and that 10-year-old and that 18-year-old, they'll begin blaming themselves for the gap between you and them. They will try to backfill that gap with my dad is such an amazing man because they're going to play the facts out. Dad always keeps us safe. Dad always tells us good night. Dad always touches us. Dad always sings. Dad always makes sure we have food on the table. Dad's an amazing guy, but they can feel that they are not relationally connected to you and they will blame themselves for that. Yeah. And that's what I'm worried about because like my daughter asked me who my dad is. And I, I just stared at, I didn't even like,

do I even tell her his name? Like, ah. So here's what you tell him. How do I tell you? Number one, those are those feeling triggers. That's when you write that stuff down. I got to deal with dad, and I got to deal with mom. And not that you're ever going to take that pain away. That pain will always be there, but it will be something that doesn't get your heart rate up anymore.

They will be people in your past that didn't show up and now we're on to the next, but we got to wade through that first. And when I say wade through it, not 18 years in therapy, okay? There are some programs, you can go 12 sessions and work through this stuff. Okay.

Okay? It's the trauma-focused stuff. There's EMDR. There is all kinds of trauma- focused stuff. There's even some plant based stuff that I've, that I'm reading about now for trauma, like you've experienced. That's phenomenal. Okay. Um, and that with the map studies and things are continuing to roll it out and roll it out and roll it out. All I have to say is healing is there, but you got to go down the road and it is the bravest flex of all time.

Yeah. But I need you to hear me say there's peace on the other end of this, man. I hear you. Just a, and you know, the, like the ACE score of four, just for the casual listener, ACE score of four is when all of a sudden you see these weird spikes in cancer and heart disease and they're bodies that just eat themselves over time. A ACE's score of 10 is a dramatically shorter lifespan if you don't deal with it. Every predictive metric suggests

that you're gonna have some major challenges with addiction, with disconnection, with numbing behaviors of some sort, and your body will just eat itself over time. Are you, do you have any sort of addictive tendencies at all? Uh, no, I, or unplugging tendencies. I tend to call those. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I, yeah, I tend to unplug. Okay. You can be totally alone in a crowded room? Oh, yeah. Okay.

Yeah. You just go in the deep elevator of your mind and say bye. And from a kid that was sexually or physically abused, that's where kids go. They get in the elevator and they go so deep inside. So whatever's happening to their body can happen. They're adults in their life. You do what you're going to do. I'm out of here, but I'm still, it's my body.

But does that make sense? In that book, the title says everything. The body keeps the score. Your mind can hide, but your body registers everything. Right? And you know this, I'm just, I'm using this to teach the listener too. Your mind can hide, but your body registers everything, right? And you know this. I'm using this to teach the listener too. You know this.

Here's what I want you to do. I want you to do the bravest thing you've ever done. And you've done some brave stuff, man. You're a hero to me right now, Dennis. You hear that? Thank you. Like I talk to a lot of people. You're an impressive, impressive young man, really impressive impressive i want you to call a trauma counselor in your area

and i want you to say i have an asa score of 10 and i'm ready to do some healing and if they can't handle it they can't handle it in your area and in a metropolitan area, you're going to be able to find some great folks. Okay. And there may be some trial and error, but you can do it. Go ahead.

Yeah, I'm just, my wife's tried to encourage me and I'm just so nervous just to spill out and unload the baggage and then not like the person or get judged by them. Okay, so here's the thing.

Your story, my brother, is your story. Nobody gets to judge it. Nobody gets to comment on it. It's your story. And there will come a moment when that story is so powerful, both for you and for those who hear it, that you'll begin to make meaning of this thing after you've grieved this childhood.

You'll make meaning on the back end and it will become a powerful narrative for you and those around you. And right now that story feels scary, but if somebody can't handle that story, screw them, you're on to the next. Okay. Okay?

Nothing to be ashamed about. You're a dude. got robbed you got robbed yeah and now you gotta call call the police that's a terrible metaphor but you gotta yeah you gotta walk through it right um yeah yeah you may have to go through one or two counselors, three or four. Great. You're worth it. Your kids are worth it. Your wife is worth it. Stopping this nonsense from ever happening to anybody again in your legacy is worth it.

Yeah. And, man, I'm so grateful to have gotten to talk to you today, brother. Thanks. Oh, man, so grateful, so grateful. Will you commit to letting me, can we call you back? You'll be on the show again in a couple of months? Yeah. I'd love to walk alongside you in this. As you go to counseling for the first couple of times, I'd love for you to keep a journal at your home about how it's going and you can tell people what it's like as you're experiencing this. And let me,

can I be honest with you? It's going to suck. It'd be real hard because you're going to go back to hell, but you're gonna have somebody with you this time. Um, yeah, I'm not looking forward to that. I've been running from that for so long, so hard that it's, it's scary to go back, but I stare at my kids and, and, and my wife is right. I got to face it. Yeah. But, but that's, that's why you go with a trauma counselor because they're going to walk with you. You're not going to be alone. You're going to go with a trauma counselor. They're going to walk with you.

Baby. This is legacy change. This is setting down those bricks in your backpack and you've got like 30 cinder blocks. I don't even know how you're walking. The fact that you can get in and tell your kids goodnight every night is amazing. The fact that you have found somebody that you love and y'all are connected to

is a testament to your strength and character. It's so strong. But now I want you to be vulnerable for a season. You built up the muscle, you built up the strength, and you've got relationships, and now it's time to be real vulnerable and real brave. And then go heal. And then go heal. Ah, man. I'm excited to walk alongside with you on this one, Brother Dennis. Thank you so much for calling. We'll be right

back on The Dr. John Delaney Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, October is the season for wearing costumes and masks. And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Brad Pitt in Fight Club era because, I mean, we pretty much have the same upper body, but whatever. All right, look, it's costume season.

And let's be honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind costumes and masks more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social setting. We do this around our families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with

yourself and you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic, direct life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with Better Help.

Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dotcom slash Deloney. All right, we are back. Hey, during the break, we stepped off and Dennis, who we're just on the phone with from Milwaukee, asked Kelly about another question. And so I'm going to bring Dennis back, man. Hey, Dennis, you're the first repeat call in the same show. This is incredible, man. Getting my money's worth today. Yeah, dude. So what's call on the same show. This is incredible, man. I'm getting my money's worth today. Yeah, dude. So what's up?

Yeah, exactly. And this advice, by the way, is worth every penny you're paying for it. It's awesome. So hey, man. So what's up, dude? All right. So yeah. So I mentioned that my mom had come back.

And what happened for that is my father-in-law passed away back in February. Okay. Is he a good man? Is he a good man? He was the best grandparent that my kids had by far. He was a great man. And it was a horrible man. He had Parkinson's and dementia, and it was a two- or three-year spiral where he ended up dying, obviously.

And my wife and I were his main caretakers throughout that process. Golly, dude. Somebody give Dennis a break, man. God almighty, dude. That is hard. It was horrible And So anyway Throughout this process

My mother decided that she had a calling To come back And be a good I bet she did A good grandparent for my kids And So I just I gotta be honest with you

I always want to give my bias up front Not a huge your mom fan right now Cool? Yeah Okay I don't want to talk crap about anybody's mom Not a huge fan But go ahead

So she She gets a call She gets the call Yeah So I've had 30 I've had 30 years of from both my parents, but from her too. Things will be better. Things will be better.

I'm going to do more. And no action ever followed up. But this year, John, she's come and visited my house three times now, which is more than I've seen her in like a decade before that. So what in the world compelled you to allow that?

I'm not judging you. This is just two dudes having a beer at a bar, dude. Like, what are you doing? I just always felt like not being the resentful, nasty person. Yes. And if you're going to make the effort to, to have a good relationship, I've always tried to have my door open and it's hard, but I've just been like, Oh, like in the past, I've paid for her to come back just to try to have a relationship with her.

And now this year she's come back and paid for herself three times. And she was just here a couple weeks ago. And my kids love her, man. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah. So a common thread with children from, with parents who abandoned them or from parents who abused them. You have both. A common adult thread is a continuing of the kid trying to go back and heal that relationship. Every kid has it wired in

that why would my parents not love me? It must be me. Remember earlier when I was talking to you about your daughters, they'll start to feel that gap. You still feel that gap. You paid for a tiger that shredded your heart and mind and soul. You paid for her to come back and be in your house with your kids. And when you say it like that, it sounds insane, right? Yeah. But there is a four-year-old inside of you that is still going, what the hell did I do wrong? Yeah. And I can make it right now.

Now that I got money, now that I got my own house, now that I got my stuff together, Mom, will you love me now? Yeah. And, man, you listen to the show for more than five minutes. You know I'm all about redemption All day every day But I'm not about getting bit by the same rattlesnake twice Yeah so On that note

My specific question was And Maybe you'll get me a different way I don't know So I've Rebuilt an entire different life With my wife and my kids, as I mentioned. We're sound in every way possible, and I had to do a lot of work to get here. And is there a way that I can – how do I let the past be the past with her? And if she is changed, which sounds crazy, how do I build something new and

different with her? Incredible questions. Both of them. The answer number one is she doesn't have access to your kids until you've healed, until you're okay. And so when mom can call and your heart rate doesn't take off on you when You and your wife talk about mom and you don't instantly get thrown back 26 years When you've healed Then you can start the conversation about what does it look like to let this tiger back in? Because you're gonna realize You're you've grown a lot of muscles and you're going to realize you've grown a lot of muscles,

and you're big, and you're going to – part of healing trauma work is letting this little 8-year-old who's been trying to protect you for the last 30 years, letting him off the hook, and that's just hard to do. Letting him out of the elevator, and that's just part of it. And again, it can be as easy as 12 sessions. Sometimes it's harder than that. It's longer than that, but you got to heal. So I'm trying to think of, I'm just getting flooded with lame analogies, but if, I mean, if you cut yourself with a knife, you let your finger

heal before you start doing the same thing with a knife again. You know what I mean? Um, you're not you're not healed yet And then the second thing is after you're healed you sit down with mom and have some very direct boundary oriented conversations Here's how this is gonna go because this is my house now And I lived through it in your house, you're in my home now. And that's not disrespectful. That is boundaries.

That is safety. That is you saying, if you're going to be a part of our lives, you person who abandoned me, abused me, let other people use me, if you're back in around my kids and around my wife, it's going to look like this. And it will be an extraordinary olive branch, period, for you allowing that. But right now you're not okay. And so when grandma comes, you tense up.

When you see your kids playing with grandma grandma your heart is out the door on you when your grandma is behind closed doors as one of your daughters or one of your daughters says hey I gotta go potty and grandma says I'll take her right yeah am I right

yeah you're right so there will come healing first and it might be a year. Hey, now's not a good time for you to come over. I'm in some pretty intensive counseling right now, mom, working through my childhood. And when I'm ready for you to come back, then we'll, I'd love for you to, but I'm not ready yet. And you leave it at that. And that dude, that's going to be the first little brick out of your backpack. That's going to become the road you're going to walk on. And your kids are going to walk on the road and your wife's going to walk on that road and your grandkids are going to walk on that road. And it's going

to feel a little bit lighter the first time you lay down that first little boundary. And then you're going to feel stronger and stronger and stronger. But yeah, brother, she doesn't have, it's, I don't mean this in a demeaning way, but you got a fantasy in your head that you can make this all okay. And in a weird perverse way, you've done a lot of this work to prove to mom that you're lovable now. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And for my dad, too. And that's messed up.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. There's a little kid in there, man, that's still trying to, like, look, look, look, look, I got a marriage, and she loves me, and she's pretty, and my two kids, they're well-behaved, and they follow directions, and I hug them before bed.

Am I doing good, mom? Am I doing good? That's what you got to heal from. You don't got to live that life, man. They don't get a vote in your life anymore. They cash that out. They cashed that out. They don't get a vote. They don't get a vote.

They don't get an opinion. They don't get anything until you are well enough to let them back in with boundaries on your terms. So can we go dark for a second? Yeah. What happens if mom hurts

one of your daughters? Let me tell you. Within about 12 hours, she's dead and I'm in jail. I haven't thought about it, but that's the first place I went. Exactly. Rage. So let me just tell you, I've seen this happen. The risk is not worth the reward at this point how do I how do I have that conversation with my kids age appropriate and

they, they, grandma's I mean they don't they're four man you're putting a lot, rightfully so, but you're putting a lot of insight and truth into their minds that aren't there yet. So they will quickly, let me put it this way. I took my four-year-old.

My wife was doing some work in Brazil. She's a brilliant researcher. She was doing some work with a school in Brazil. And me and my son, he was two or three at the time we tagged along for something like that. Dude, my son and I picked mangoes off of trees and avocados off of trees. They were the size of my head. And we, toucans were just wild and they landed. I mean, we, it was the most amazing adventure between with me and my son, like in a stroller down cobblestones. It was amazing. He doesn't remember any of it, nothing,

none of it, man. He has no recollection of it. I'm like, dude, and then we rode on a donkey out into the jungle. He has nothing, no recollection. So I tell you that to tell you your, your connection memories with your kids are forming their neural connections. Their memories, though, are very, very thin at this moment in their life. So, grandma won't come around, and one of them may be like, where's grandma? Be like, she's at home. Oh, okay. When's she going to come see us? She'll come sometime. Okay. And it'll be on to the next. It'll be on to the next. Okay.

So don't overthink it. You're going to use your kids as a proxy to get connected to your parents. Don't do that. Draw that boundary with mom. And let mom know, I'm in in counseling now i'm dealing with my childhood i got little kids and um you're coming back and it's all coming back real hard and i appreciate you coming back um but i gotta do some healing first and then we'll we'll figure out what this is gonna look like moving forward and that's that's tiny little boundary number one. Can you do that?

Yeah. Dude, I'd love for you to do that, and then write me an email and let me know how that goes. Would you do that? Yeah. Dude, that would be rad. That's setting that first boundary. Setting that first boundary.

And everybody listening to this show, this is right after the holidays. Some of y'all know I got to set boundaries now too. Very few of you will have to set boundaries like Dennis is having to set. Everybody can do it. Dennis, you're leading the charge here, okay? All right. That sounds scary, but yeah.

You are redeeming your story, my brother. You're redeeming those bricks that you've been carrying around. They're going to turn into pathways. They're going to turn to old brick roads that other people are going to walk on. Dude, you are redeeming your story, and you're going to help a lot, a lot of people with that courage. And, hey, mom may throw a walleye fit, or she may send you crazy text messages about, you're killing me and my babies. You're going to hold this over my head.

Why won't you forgive me? All of that is manipulative, abusive nonsense. You know her well. You get a right to heal. You get a right to heal. Trust me? Yeah. All right, my brother.

God, it's been an honor, honor, honor to talk to you. So great, man. All right, we'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, let's take one more call.

Let's go to Jacob in Seattle. What's up, Jacob? What's going on, brother? Hey, Dr. Don. It's a privilege to talk to you this morning. It is a privilege to talk to you, my man. So What's up, Jacob? What's going on, brother? Hey, Dr. Don. It's a privilege to talk to you this morning. It is a privilege to talk to you, my man. So what's up? Hey, so I was, uh,

I have a question. I was hoping you could offer some advice. I recently confessed to my wife struggles with pornography. I've been struggling with it off and on in my life. Um, and I, there's these spirals of shame and kind of the self guilt that I fall into. Um, and just a fear of being rejected for the broken person that I am.

And it drives me to hide from her, to lie to her about my sexual needs, and just to avoid open and honest connection with her. And I want an awesome marriage, and I know that that has no part in that. So I was curious if you could offer some insight, particularly to just overcoming that fear of rejection and shame spiral. Yeah, dude. Well, number one, thanks for calling,

and thanks for being brave and talking to your wife about what's going on. Did she catch you, or did you just sit down and say, hey, we gotta have a talk? I sat her down. I, I heard you and, uh, I heard you and Ken Coleman on the Ramsey show talking about reaching out to somebody and saying, Hey, I need help. Um, and so my wife got home from work and I, it was the most difficult thing I've ever

done in my life. It was sitting down next to her and saying, hey, I need some help. I've been struggling with this for nine months and hiding it from you. And I don't want that in our relationship and I really need help because I can't get out on my own. What was her response? How did she respond? She responded, um, amazingly, um, upset and, and hurt as, as, you know, as, as understandable as she should be. Um, you know, that, that feeling of you're hiding something from me, you're lying to me. Um, but with so much love and grace as well, and just compassion and wanting to help me, wanting to help me heal.

But a big part of that right now was just mending that trust that was broken in our relationship that I broke. So she responded really well. That's awesome, man. So how, how, That's awesome, man. So there's a jillion psychological for having a partner that heard you and saw that you were hurting. I hear a lot, often I hear men and women when they say, hey, I'm struggling with this.

The partner's heartbroken that they were struggling so much and kept the struggle. Does that make sense? Not so much like, okay, you're looking at websites. but it's that you were in hell and I didn't know, you didn't trust me enough to reach out. And so, and we're married. Does that make sense? And so that trusting is often, I see couples when they try to, when they work through this together, not try to, you all definitely worked through this, but when they work through this together, not try to. You all definitely work through this. But when they work through it, it's about surface level stuff. Like I get to check your phone.

I get to see the internet. And that's all part of it. But the deeper is how do you learn to practice being vulnerable in your relationship? And that's probably something you've never, ever done before. Is that fair? Or you did it and you got roasted. No, it's easy to talk about my past and to say, oh, this is what I used to struggle with, but look at how I've overcome it now and see where I'm at now.

See, I'm healed. I'm good. Right. But, but to say I'm actively failing or actively struggling right now, um, that's, that's the part that's really, really hard. Um, and in most, you know, most other areas of my life, it's generally pretty easy for me to be open and to be vulnerable. But for some reason, this particular area, there's just a heavy shame associated with it that I have to, that I deal with. But that, so I got you, but that shame is an undercurrent. Pornography is just the signal. The shame is underneath it. Somebody's told you somewhere that things you were into or you're weird or you're gross or, hey, shut up, I don't care, or that didn't hurt. Somebody told you that your needs, sexually and otherwise, were less than, were not valuable, were not important to this conversation.

They were not, they're not valued in this family. And so at some point you went underground with it. And it probably pops up in dishonesty with a, like you exaggerate too much, or it probably pops up with a, you're like, you exaggerate too much, or it probably pops up with you're really flirty, or it probably pops up with, um, you're over like Jesus freak. Like, you know what I mean? Like super like all into like, whatever you mean. I don't, I don't mean to be ugly about it, but like, um, uh, never miss church with your faith community. Right. It pops up in these weird places and it's us trying to out earn that shame.

Who we are, our feelings, our things that we thought were funny, the things that we think are injustices. Somebody told us to shut up, either explicitly or implicitly. The story we were born into was, you be quiet. And we learn to be quiet and then we start trying to

achieve it. I'm a straight A student. I'm the super guy. I'm the whatever. I'll always be there. People come to me with their problems. I'm just rattling off the ones that I hear a lot. Um, and again, I don't know you at all. Have I hit on any of yours? I think the closest to that would be, um, I'm kind of the, the third born middle child peacekeeping personality. There you go. Okay. Yes.

So you will earn your seat at the table by making sure I'm going to be all things to all people. I need to be okay so that everybody else can be okay. Right. But you're okay. You being okay is you squashing things. And so, like,

I wish it was more complicated than this. What you've got to do is A, say, I'm worth having feelings. It starts from a place of worthiness. Like, I get to have feelings. And starts from a place of worthiness. Like I get to have feelings and I

get to be super sexually attracted to my wife and I get to, I get to have fantasies about my wife and we're married. I'm going to talk about them. I'm going to invite her into those and that's going to be scary. And so the word I'm going to invite her into those. And that's going to be scary. And so the word I'm going to use is practice. You got to start with a place of worthiness. I'm worthy of putting it out there. It's worth the risk. And dude, you can tell her something and she may be like, what?

You know what I mean? Yeah. And you might invite her to tell you hers because she's got fantasies too. She's got ideas and dreams and whatever too. And she probably doesn't know how to tell you them. And this is going to provide an avenue of connection for both of you that you both don't have. How do I, like what language can I use? What things can I put into practice to rebuild trust with my wife and to practice that open communications of my feelings and that sense of, you know, valuing my own feelings enough to express them and to share them? So, great question.

Here's two things that I use in my house. Number one, I might phrase something. My wife might phrase something with the words, I'm feeling vulnerable or I'm being vulnerable here. And that's a, we've agreed in our house. When I say I'm being vulnerable here, I feel like you're doing this just to piss me off. Or I feel like when I got home, you just talked about this and this and this

and you just blew me off. And the response cannot be, we're going to war. It cannot be a defensive thing. It has to be a, thank you for telling me that. And it's me just practicing saying what I'm feeling. Because if I get home and I feel like my wife's blowing me off, makes me mad. And then I go in my room and then I go down a spiral. I've been working hard all freaking day. I've been doing this.

I've been, it's all about me. It becomes a selfish nonsense trash. And then I come out and i'm all ready to you know be an idiot and so i practice by saying i'm just being vulnerable here i feel like you're ignoring me did i do something wrong i feel like i screwed something up and then she can say thank you for telling me that and then she'll look at me for a beat and i'll say, yes, go ahead and respond. And she'll say, I just got to go to the bathroom real bad. I'm happy to see you. You know what I mean? It's like something so benign. I totally misread it.

Or in your situation, I'm being totally vulnerable here. I would like to try this particular sexual act. Or I'm interested in what really turns you on or the John Deloney erotic envelope system that I should have patented, man. I got people reaching out for it. Have you heard me talk about that? Yeah. Dude, that is the best way to practice.

She gets 10 envelopes, you get 10 envelopes. And I want you to dress up in this way. I want you to fill in the blank with whatever's in your head. And the vulnerability is you're both gonna open it. You don't know who's gonna get whose. And you may spend an entire evening French kissing and watching Love Actually over and over and over again. That might happen.

And you may find yourself in a suit on a, who knows, man, whatever weird things come up in these envelopes. But it is a way to make the awkwardness of your feelings be in the envelope, not in the conversation. It's a way to put it, again, you hear me talk about writing letters all the time. It's a way to put it. Again, you hear me talk about writing letters all the time. It's a way to put it at arm's length.

There's a distance on it. And then you could go, okay, it's in the envelope. And then she, part of the vulnerability is her going, I don't even know how, what? How does that work? Or I have a question about that. And then y'all are in it now. And that's the good stuff, man.

And this happened with raising kids. This will happen with, hey, I'm not happy at my job. You know, pornography and sex, it becomes this just, it's a way to disconnect and numb out and unplug and not have to deal with the potential

for rejection. And you've got a life filled of it. Is everything, is anything I'm saying off? Um, I think, I think it's pretty close. I think the, I think the biggest struggle for me is mostly just, it's not so when it comes to, okay, I want to engage sexually in this way. I'm completely satisfied with our sex life.

I wouldn't change a thing about it. You're not satisfied with you. Yeah. One of the most common things people say when they had an affair, it has nothing to do with their partner. It has to do with who they've become in that partnership. Mm-hmm.

And there's that aliveness, that risk. Their heart starts beating faster. And you, as you're clicking away and clicking away, your heart starts beating faster. You might get caught. It all is this, it's all, Esther Perel, it's desire.

It's this whole new emotional thing that is new to us. And you can decide to have that with your wife, but you practice it and you lean into it. So it's not about, it might be for some people, it might be about, I want to try this sex position or this. That might be it.

But bigger than that, it's deciding I'm going to practice desire. I'm going to lean into the eroticism that is my marriage. I am going to be totally vulnerable. And she might squash this. Middle kids aren't, don't have, can't, they don't have time to be vulnerable because they got a whiny little younger sibling and they've got an overbearing older sibling. I don't have time for vulnerability. We've got to get through the day. I need you to be okay. You'd be okay. And what I'm telling you is you're worth it all And I'll tell you

Quit looking at porn dude Stop And I know that sounds so like Dude I've got Just quit Throw your computer out the window Turn the wifi router off Just stop

Just stop Okay I wish it was more complex than that Have somebody you can call Get one of those internet filters Put enough barriers in front of you that you stop. Get rid of all the streaming services, get rid of all the stuff, just stop. Is that fair? Yeah. And my wife and I, we've put up, we've put up all the barriers. It's, I think

more than just having the barriers between me and finding some loophole to finding, you know, pornography. I want the kind of relationship with my wife where I can, I can, you know, tell her something as it comes up or before it comes up or before it happens. I want to rely more on the relationship that I have with my wife. Have an accountability partner right now, not your wife. You're going to bury your wife of openness. Have an accountability partner right now, not your wife. You're going to bury your wife with that. If you call your wife four times a day and tell her,

Hey, I really want to look at porn right now. I'm just really struggling. You're going to drown your wife, call your accountability friend. And then at nighttime you tell your wife, I checked in with my accountability friend today. She doesn't need to know the details of what you,

you know what I mean? Yeah. And you're going to bury her with that. Have somebody you can let the raw ugliness out with and, um, but don't, don't use her as a, as a garbage bin. Yeah. Because what will happen is you will start to find your body will begin to connect those conversations with safety You'll begin to need to dump that stuff on her and that's not her job Her job isn't to carry all of your crap with her all the time Yeah, right so

Do this I'm gonna sound it's it's going to sound backwards. Act better and just be different. Don't over sensationalize this. Get an accountability partner, somebody you trust, whether it's somebody at your local church, I'm a friend of yours, whoever. And just say, dude, I'm struggling with this thing. I'm going to holler at you or I'm going to shoot you a text. And I want, here's the most important thing. Okay, you ready?

You want to solve this thing sooner rather than later? Here it is. Go to Walmart, go to Target, go somewhere and get a small little journal and every time you feel an urge to look at pornography, I want you to just stop

and take an inventory of what's happening in your world. Are you tired? Did you eat a bunch of junk food? Did somebody just reject you? Are you waiting to get feedback on something from work? Are you feeling lonely? What is the feeling? I'm trying to get you to create a gap, a small little space between the act of going to the website and why is my body trying to take care of me? Why is it trying to numb out right now? Why is it taking a cheap alternative connection right now? And once you can establish why your body's doing that, then you can – it's, it's right, right when I'm about to reach for a Twinkie or a gummy candy, I'll stop and go, what, what am I doing? Oh, I'm really tired right

now. Don't do that. You're just tired. Or, or go eat a monster salad or go get a steak or something. Or when I find myself in my room in with the door closed, and then I'm in my bathroom with the door closed and I'm just sitting on the floor with Instagram. And I can just go, what am I numbing out from? What am I hiding from? Hiding from nagging. I'm hiding from snacks. Can I have a snack? I'm just hiding. I need to stand back up and grow up and go back in there. And if there's some behaviors I don't like, then I'm going to lean into those behaviors and be direct to them. I'm going to be vulnerable. I'm going to lean into that.

But it's just getting that gap between the behavior. And as soon as you start to call it out, you're going to start to notice it everywhere. And then you're going to realize, I don't have to numb this. I'm sad. I don't have to numb this. I'm going to call him and ask him

to get through my reporting. I don't have to numb this. I'm going to ask him for a raise. I don't have to numb this. I'm going to tell my wife I've been missing her. Or, hey, honey, I don't feel connected to you when you get home, whatever the thing is. But separate yourself from that act.

And this goes for anybody who's trying to not overeat. As y'all are making your news resolutions, listeners, this is for everybody. I'm going to stop swearing so much. I'm going to stop eating like that. I'm going to start exercising and stop sleeping. Whatever the thing is, I'm going to start being nicer to my spouse or to my kids, whatever it is,

right when you feel the impulse to not. Just pause. Just get a gap. What's the gap? What's the gap? What's the gap? What's the gap? What's the gap? What is my body trying to protect me from? And when you solve that, man, you solve all this stuff. You solve it all. Thank you so much for the call, Brother Jacob. You got this, man. You got this. All right, as we wrap up today's show, man, we're going back to the master, Gary Clark Jr. off the Black and Blue album. Song's called Please Come Home. Man, he's so good. It goes like this. My love is with you even though you're far away. You made me love you, and that's where my love will stay. Darling, those times I get lonely, you're far away. You made me love you, and that's where my love will stay. Darling, those times I get lonely, you're the one who truly knows me.

I can tell it in the way, darling. You show me. Why don't you please come home, girl? Come home, girl. You've been gone way too long. Come home, girl. As my days go by slower, my nights are getting colder soon,

my heart's gonna strain. Ah, this is such a great old blues song. Why don't you come home, girl? Gary Clark, my nights are getting colder soon. My heart's gonna strain. Ah, this is such a great old blues song. Why don't you come home? Girl, Gary Clark, my man. Gary Clark Jr. Right here on the Dr. John Deloney Show.