The Dr. John Delony Show - Dealing With Your Past & Leading Through Trauma

Episode Date: October 30, 2020

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that gives you real talk on life, relationships and mental health challenges. Through humor, grace and grit, John gives you the tools you need to cut through the chaos of anxiety, depression and disconnection. You can own your present and change your future—and it starts now. So, send us your questions, leave a voicemail at 844-693-3291, or email [e-mail]. We want to talk to YOU! Show Notes for this Episode 2:33: Should I agree to be the best man in my best friend's wedding if I don't agree with the marriage? 10:24: I'm a married 36-year-old with 4 boys and life is not what I expected. How do I reconcile my expectations and my reality? 20:19: I ran away from home 5 years ago; how do I start reconciling with my family? 33:02: As an ER doctor, how do I talk to my staff after traumatic events? Trauma Stewardship: An Everyday Guide to Caring for Self While Caring for Others by Laura van Dernoot Lipsky The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel van der Kolk M.D 45:17: Lyrics of the day: "Ghostbusters" - Ray Parker Jr. tags: friendship, marriage, trauma, pain, parenting, counseling, expectations, family, hard conversations, abuse, leadership These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Hey, on today's show, we're going to be talking about friends who judge their friends. We're going to be talking to a wonderful woman who's got a great husband and wonderful kids, but is still haunted by her past. We're going to be talking with a young woman who has to come to terms with the fact that she can't fix her mother. We're going to talk to a rad ER doctor who's doing everything he can to care for his staff during hard, traumatic moments. Stay tuned. Hey, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

We're taking your calls about your life and your relationships and your dilemmas. What's going on? I want to help you rethink, re-examine, reconsider your lives, how you talk to yourself, how you talk to your friends, your kids, your neighbors. We're gonna talk about love, we're gonna talk about loss, family issues, broken hearts. We may talk about people, since it's October 30th, We may talk about people who are going to embarrassingly overdress tomorrow. Some people dress up 364 days out of a year and they save it all up for this one day when they just have to let the world know how much they love Chewbacca, how much they are just

into Bubba Fett, man. Bubba Fett's what's up. And you dress up 364 days, and this one day, you dial it up about 42% and you just let your freak flag fly. So you know what? Let's just all do this. Letterkenny style, let's take 30% off. Let's just all bring it down. Let's be normal people uh this year has been ridiculous we don't need your costumes man we don't need your costumes you know what i'm not even gonna judge do whatever you want to if you're that guy let it ride if you're her if you're her if you're a cat

mom out there dress up as your pet whatever we're not gonna think you're weird covid whatever dude this world's already a wreck so whatever's going on in your heart Your head, whatever Call me about your Halloween costume, that'll be weird Give me a call at 1-844-693-3291 That's 1-844-693-3291 You can email me at askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com I just, I don't get the The Halloween costumes

I'm gonna show them what I really Why? Why? Just wear a name tag, wear a name tag. I don't know, dude. People just do whatever's in your heart. Let's just do it. All right, let's go straight to the phones today. Let's go to Mike in Dayton, Ohio. Mike, what is up, my man? How are we doing? Good, Dr. John. How are you? Outstanding, outstanding. What can I help you with today, ma'am? Well, hey, a friend of mine who really looks up to me has been thinking about getting engaged, and I'm pretty sure he's going to ask me to be his best man.

However, I don't think either my friend or his girlfriend are ready to be married, but I know he'll be really hurt if I decline to be his best man. What do you think I should do? Why do you, man, why do you think they're not ready? Obi-Wan Kenobi, why do you think that? So both of them have a lot of baggage that they'll carry into the marriage. Both of them come from very broken families. She is medically disabled and deals with a lot of anxiety. She's living with her parents, and she's told my wife and I

that she's being emotionally and verbally abused by her parents at home. And my friend's family is extremely dysfunctional. Both parents were previously divorced before marrying each other. There's a lot of anger, and in the past there's been a lot of physical and verbal violence. Like supporting a spouse, especially someone who's disabled and can't work, but is not on disability. I feel like that'll be really taxing for a young marriage. Yeah. So here's the deal, Mike. I can give you what I really think, or I can give you a clean, pat, stock answer. Which one would you like? I would appreciate your honesty.

Okay. I think more than anything in the whole wide world, your best friend, his fiance, they need people to lean into their lives, not out of them. And I think one of the challenges that we all face in this world is that we find people who have really difficult lives, whose lives are different than ours, whose lives we don't agree with, whose lives have just taken different shapes and forms for whatever reason, because of disabilities, because of childhood abuse, because of ongoing abuse, because of they look different,

they love different, all these different reasons. And what we choose to do is we vote with our feet. We show our disapproval by backing out. And what I would tell you is that if I'm in your situation, this is all I can – the only advice I can give you, brother, is if I'm you, I would take my friend out and I would tell him I love him. I would tell him I think this is going to be really hard. I don't know you're in a good spot to get married. But if you choose to go through with it, I'm going to be right by your side.

Because this doesn't sound like a values issue or a morals issue. This sounds like you have some things in your head that you think you've established as credible reasons to get married. People need to be at a certain place before they take this plunge. There may be a lot of statistics leaning up against the success of this marriage. There's going to be a lot of challenges. I don't think that's a reason to bail on your buddy. That's what I think. Okay.

You sound like you disagree with me. Why do you disagree with me? So my wife and I are pretty newly married. We've been married for about 18 months. And I think having a little bit of experience under our belts, um, we've seen firsthand how, um, our upbringing affects our relationship with each other and the conflict that it brings. Um, so I think I'm struggling to see, um, especially since they're both so emotionally, um, immature. Um, I, I really see a lot of struggle with them and especially their first couple of years of marriage.

Um, and I don't see a lot of, um, willingness to adapt to each other, um, and to love unconditionally and to be patient with each other. So I think that's why I'm really hesitant to, I don't want to say put my seal of approval on their marriage, but I know that this guy really looks up to my opinion, and I don't want to mislead him by giving him my blessing, essentially. So I think that's what I'm struggling with. Man, your friendship, dude, doesn't sound equitable to me. It sounds like you have a tiny sliver of experience. You've been married 18 months.

I've been married almost two decades, man, and it just goes in seasons. There are some seasons that are incredible and some that are a roaring dumpster fire. And it sounds like you've got a lot of judgment up against him and not a lot of experience to back up that judgment. It sounds like you're bringing your baggage and looking through his relationship with your pair of glasses on, man. And that's a tough thing to do to your buddy. On the other side, I don't disagree with you, man. I've had friends that had no business getting married and I told them as such, Hey dude, you're not in a good place, man. Um, I don't ever want somebody to not get married to somebody cause it's going to be challenging. Cause all marriages are challenging. I don't ever want someone to not get married to somebody because they have a disability. I just – I hate that.

That makes me – that makes me in my core, my guts just sick. I want people to go in with open eyes. Yeah, you're taking on a different life. It's going to be – have different challenges, but it's going to have different rewards and successes too. I look at being somebody's best man less as a stamp of approval and more I'm shoulder to shoulder with you because I love you and I care about you. Now, if there's a values thing, if I have a buddy who's married to somebody and he's going to go get married to somebody else and he wants me to come stand in there. I'm not going to do that. But I'm going to tell him, I love you, dude. But I was at your first wedding.

And you've got some stuff going on. That's going to be a values thing for me. But this sounds like a judgment thing as opposed to a values thing. It doesn't sound like you're going to do it. And if you don't want to do it, that's cool, man. I really want you to go look in the mirror, though. You are bringing a lot of judgment to your buddy. You don't have very much experience to back that up.

If you've been married two decades, you've been married 10 years, and you could sit down and walk him through some challenges with some true wisdom, man, I'm all for that. But I think what he needs right now is he needs his best friend. He needs his buddy to not judge him as much as to sit with him and say, are you thinking this through? I love you, and I'm seeing something from a different perspective. Here's my experience. Let's talk about it. And then you're going to have to make a decision. If you think your presence or your just showing up is a stamp of approval and you don't feel comfortable with that, don't go, man.

I'm raising my son to be there for his friends. I'm raising my son to be there for people who are struggling. And I don't think my presence is always an explicit support as much as I want people to know I love you. I'm going to stand here with you. I love you. I'm going to give you my presence. So, man, thanks for the call. That's a tough one, dude.

Good luck with that one. All right, let's go to Gwen in Chattanooga Tennessee Gwen what is up? Hi How are ya? I'm good Outstanding How are you? Good

What's up? Well okay so I'm 36 I'm married I have four boys Hey hold on Hold on Will you do that again for me? Yeah.

And I want you to do it where the end of your sentence doesn't curtail down, but it curtails up. Okay. Okay? So the way I heard that was, I'm 36, I have four boys, and I think I want to set my hair on fire. And I want to hit my own feet with a sledgehammer. Let's do it the other way and then come out and say, I'm 36. I've got, let's do it like that. Okay.

Okay. All right. Ready? Go. Okay. I'm 36. I'm married. I have four boys.

I've reached a point in my life where I just feel like I'm really struggling just with, I guess, my expectations versus my reality. Yeah, I can hear it. Even when you said you were going to be like, all right, I'll talk more positive, it went right back down. So why are you struggling between your expectations and your reality? Okay, so I'm sorry. No no don't be sorry this is hard stuff okay yeah hard stuff um so my mother suffered with mental illness and um like schizophrenia manic depression bipolar who knows really okay. Okay, so. Hard stuff, though. Yeah, yeah. So I spent, you know, most of my childhood with her.

And, you know, I just, I promised myself when I was a little girl that when I was grown, I was going to do all the things that I needed to do to, you know, live a good life and, you know, have a happy family and do all the things. And I feel like I've done all the things, but it just hasn't fixed it. You know what I mean? Like, I still feel broken, and I don't want to feel this way anymore. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I feel like it's starting to overflow into, like, my...

And I don't know why it just feels like all of a sudden, at this point in my life, it feels like it's bothering me more than it ever has. Yeah. You know, I don't want to be a moody person or irritable or short with my husband or my kids or, you know, any of the things. But I'm here, and I don't know how to get out. I don't know how to get out of this place that I'm in. Yeah. Have you met with somebody before?

I have not. Okay. It's not something I really, I have ever really talked about. I just, you know, just haven't. Tell me about your dad. You know, he was a good man. He got custody of my sister and I when I was 11. You know, he did the best he could. He was an alcoholic, sort of. Like, you know, he drank a lot,

but he kept a good job and did the best he could. Is your mom still alive? As far as I know, I have not seen her in 25 years. So I have not, you know, I have no no idea really um and I think that's one of the things that bothers me a little bit I don't have a relationship with her I don't want a relationship with her sure um and I feel guilty for them sure um so here's here's um I'm going to be as honest with you as I can, okay? Okay. So first, when I heard your voice, when you picked up the phone, and when you said hi and you started talking about yourself,

my instant feeling when you curtailed your words down was that you've had a really gnarly, it was instant. You've got something in your soul that's been there a long, long time, a really gnarly past. And right when you told me that your mom's got schizophrenia and or bipolar and or who knows, and you come from a loving yet alcoholic father, you had two people on planet Earth who were assigned to let you know that you were loved, and that you were valued, and that you were worth something,

and that you were worth something. They showed you that through their attention, through their boundary setting, through their showing up, and you didn't get that. What? You didn't get that. And I want to tell you that sucks.

It's not the way it's supposed to be. Your mom was sick. Your dad was sick and he was doing the best he could. But you didn't get that. And so before we go anywhere else, I want you to tell you that you're loved and I'm sorry that that happened to you. Okay?

Thank you. You've got some deep trauma wounds and you're going to have to get with a professional who's going to walk you back and you're going to have to, it's not going to be long, doesn't have to be for the rest of your life, but you're going to have to, it's not going to be long. It doesn't have to be for the rest of your life, but you're going to have to process some of that stuff because here's the deal.

You've spent the last 20 years healing from that. And my guess is when you grow up, no, I know this, but my guess is you spent the last 25, 35 years, making sure everyone around you is okay, making sure everybody around you has everything that they need, and you've really been trying to chase peace and you've been trying to chase stability

through making sure everyone around you is okay and these external things. And that's not where you find peace. You find peace from the inside out. And usually we find peace when we're tethered to something and you were shot out of the cannon completely untethered. And that's not your fault.

Mm-hmm. And so I want you to know that you're loved, you're a person of value, your husband loves you, your kids love you, but you're going to have to do some work from the inside out. Okay. Okay. And I wish there was something on this radio call that I could say, you need to go do these four things and it's going to be all right. But it's going to be hard. I also want you to know this. It's okay to put your mom down. So stop carrying her around with you. Okay. It's okay to put your dad down and stop carrying him around with you

okay tell me about your husband he's a good man yeah he's great he's my rock he's wonderful

great dad do you trust him yeah absolutely do you trust him? Yeah, absolutely Do you trust him with everything? I mean, absolutely I have no reason not to Okay, does he tell you that he loves you? Oh yeah, yeah

Does he tell you that you're beautiful? Yes Does he tell you that you're a good mom? Yes Alright, I tell you that you're a good mom? Yes. All right. I want you to believe him. Okay. Because right now you're listening to voices.

Maybe that's the challenge. It is because you're listening to voices that have been talking to you since you were four years old and five years old and six years old. And those voices are, take care of dad. Watch out for mom. Everybody be quiet. You're not good enough. And those voices have been in your head and they've been in your head and they've been in your head. And I want you to start listening to the other voice in your head that tells you you're beautiful.

You're a great mom. He picked you out of all the people he could have picked and that you're awesome. Okay. Okay. But I want you to make me a commitment that before tomorrow is over, you're going to call somebody in your local area. You're going to call a counselor.

You're going to call a marriage and family therapist. You're going to let them know I've got a history of some trauma, some history of some mental health issues with my mom, some severe mental health issues some addiction with my dad and I'm ready to do the work now so that I can become

whole from the inside out okay and I want you to call me back in a month or two after you've had a couple of sessions okay and when you call even if you gotta fake it after you've had a couple of sessions, okay? Mm-hmm. And when you call, even if you got to fake it,

I want you to call and say, my name's Gwen. I've got four kids, four crazy, smelly, weird, hairy boys. And I've got a husband that loves me. Okay? Okay. Is that fair? Yeah.

You promise you're going to call somebody in the next 24 hours? Yes, I will do it. You're brave, Gwen. You are brave. You're brave. And I want you to know this too, Gwen. Everyone listening to this just sat back and exhaled a little bit when you said you would. And I want everyone listening to this, everybody watching this to recognize Gwen's bravery. And I want you to know you're brave too. And if you got to make a call to go sit with somebody and let them know, hey,

this is what my childhood was like. I need to work through some stuff so that I can be present here for myself, present here for my kids, present here for my current husband, for my wife. Go do it. Go do it. Go make that call. Gwen, you are a rock star. You're awesome. Trust that guy you married and then trust the professionals that you're going to get involved with.

Good for you. All right, let's go to Amelia in Billings, Montana. Amelia, what's up? Hi, Dr. D. Thank you for taking my call. Thank you so much for calling. What's up? So when I was 18, I just left home. Okay. And I just walked out. How come? Why'd you leave? Unhealthy and toxic environment and controlling. And so, just one night I was just done. Before you leave, what does that mean? Was it abusive or were people just giving you mean curfews or strict curfews?

What does that mean? Toxic and controlling. Um, like I would say verbally, um, like you don't deserve this verbal put down. Um, and a lot of like new comments based on the mood of,

um, one of my parents. Um, so, and that's been five years. based on the mood of one of my parents. And so, and that's been five years from now, almost five years. So I'm wondering how I should reach out to my family and also if I should reach out to my mom and how to help her. So have you had any contact with them in five years? Especially over the summer, I started contacting some of my siblings

and talking about their experiences, had a little bit of contact with my dad, but haven't seen or talked to my mom. So are you, I don't really understand what you're asking me. Are you asking how do you call and reconnect with your mom? How do you get back in touch with your whole family? What do you, what do you, drill down for me, what are you asking? How do I know when it's safe or healthy and to like restart that relationship

does your mom have mental illness is she well i think she does have some sort of mental illness i i don't know what, and it's probably undiagnosed and untreated. Okay. You know it's safe when you have boundaries that you firmly established and people don't cross them. And so that's how you know you're safe. When you say, I only tolerate people in my life who talk to me respectfully and who don't put me down. And they may tell me things I don't want to hear. That just called accountability that's called friends who actually love you it's called parents and family members who actually love you but they don't put me down they don't beat me up they don't talk to me disrespectfully they're honorable people to be around and that's how you know

my heart rate doesn't get up when I think of talking to them. I don't lose sleep knowing I have a phone call with them tomorrow or that I've got a coffee date with them tomorrow. I don't always look forward to it, but I don't get, you know, my body's alarm systems don't go off. When you talk to your dad, does it still freak you out? Or have you reconnected and it's wonderful to hear his voice again? Yeah, it was super awesome to talk to him. And it was great.

So I feel like I'm missing something here. Why don't you just go home and see your mom? Why don't you call her and say, I'm going to be home on Friday and let's go to lunch. She's pretty mean. Okay. Then why don't you just not call her? I, well, I guess I did that for the past seven years. But I just want to help her, I guess I did that for the past five years. But I just want to help her, I guess.

Even though it's hard to have contact with her. What do you want to help her with? She's all alone, sort of. She's burned a lot of relationships, even with her, like, brothers and sisters, my aunt and uncle. She's burned a lot of relationships, and I think she really needs a lot of help. So, Amelia, this is going to suck, but I'm just going to be honest with you, okay? You can't fix your mom. Mm-hmm.

You can't fix her. You can love her, and you can be in a relationship with her, but if she let her 18-year-old daughter walk out the door and hasn't tried to reach out and connect with you, and if she burned up her marriage and her brothers and sisters, there's not a lot you can do. Yeah. You can go in there with some firm boundaries and know my mom's going to be angry and she's going to be mean and she's got her own story from when she was a kid

and she just needs someone to sit with her and love her. And that's going to be noble, like, holy work for you to go do that. But I want you to be real careful about building a fantasy. You're not going to get back those last five years. Yeah. And even growing up, it wasn't a good relationship i knew she was sort of mentally ill and was always quite angry um is it okay to never talk to her again i guess yeah if that's what it takes to keep you safe, yeah, it is.

I'm a big fan of never giving up on somebody. And so if I was in your shoes, I would send a letter with a number where they could reach me. I would probably always make sure that a few times a year I sent something in writing just to let them know I loved them and I hope they were doing well. And I'm also going to be about the business of making sure that I'm safe and I'm not in an abusive relationship and that my kids are safe and my spouse is safe and those kind of things.

But, yeah, when somebody, for whatever reason, and it sounds – my guess is your mom went through some really hard crap when she was a kid, and she got stuck in some loop-de-loops and has never been able to come out. She's never chosen to come out, never done the hard work to break some of those old cycles. And sometimes when you get in those cycles, you treat people the way that you wish you hadn't of, instead of saying, I'm sorry, and leaning into fixing that, it just compounds that. It makes that shame and depression cycle spin faster and faster and you find yourself all alone and if you're struggling with mental illness sometimes that stuff accelerates it

or as a result of it and so yeah if you're not safe stay away it's not it's not your job to go back and repair something that somebody else broke. Yeah. What's your dad say? Um, sorry. No, you're okay. Um, he's good. He's good.

He still lives with my mom. They don't talk much, I think. Does he think you should call your mom? He agrees that she's kind of a toxic person, so I don't think he thinks it's wrong for me to not call her. Can I lean into something real quick, Amelia? You keep saying kinda and a little bit and it's just sort of mean. You're using real minimizing language. Does your mom hurt you

does she tell you that you're a loser you're not a good daughter and you're never grateful for any of the stuff that she gave you and you're a jerk and she wished you'd never been born she says stuff like that to you or does she say things like man you whine a lot you're a grouch like what does she say you're using really evasive minimizing language um like in high school i um probably very obviously needed to go through counseling and the school provided that and she'd say things like, oh, you're screwed up in the head. You don't deserve to have friends. You don't deserve to go back.

It's pretty mean stuff. Hey, Amelia, moms aren't supposed to say that to their kids. Yeah, I know. And that's not your fault. That's why I left. Amelia, that's not your fault. That's why I left. Amelia, that's not your fault. You're not hearing me. That's not your fault.

Kids are supposed to have friends, and they are supposed to go outside, and they're supposed to be hugged and loved. I'm sorry you didn't get that. Thank you. And so, yeah, if your mom's not well, if she's not healthy, and she's going to hurt you again, it's probably not smart or safe for you to head back in there, unless you've got some real strong boundaries,

and you've probably got some training. You've probably got a counselor that's working with you. But you're not going to fix your mom. That's her work to do. Mm-hmm. And you're probably, maybe, it always works this way in the movies, but not a lot in real life, you're probably not going to get an apology from her.

Yeah. Yeah. And hey, Amelia, you deserve one, but you're probably not going to get it. And so grieving that loss, putting that down, that fantasy down, that myth down that my mom's going to circle back around and be the mom like my friends had,

it's probably not going to happen. And I hate that for you. Do your brothers and sisters still keep up with her? I have one sister that probably hasn't talked to her since seven or eight years.

Okay. And a younger sister that'll call and touch base. Yeah. Amelia, there's just a family pattern here. It's time to let it go.

It's time to let her go. And if your dad's a good man and he's standing by her and trying to be the best husband he can be for sickness and in health, then good for him and keep connected to him and keep connected to him and keep

connected to your sisters. But yeah, you got to put that one down. And you can still love her. You can love the idea of her, but you're not going to get that one back. You're not going to fix that one. I'm sorry to tell you that. I know it's heartbreaking. I cannot recommend enough that you get somebody, whether it's a minister or a friend that you can be vulnerable with or a group there in your community or a counselor,

somebody you can walk alongside for a short time just to help process and grieve this properly. And then, yeah, set it down. And that's so hard. You set down your freaking mom. She set you down, man. And she obviously had some stuff in her heart that just made her bitter against the world. And who knows what her story is. And I bet it's traumatic and hard too, but that's not for you to fix or solve. So I'm sorry that she hurt you. I

wish I had better news for you, Amelia, but yeah, you got to put that one down. Thank you so much for trusting me with that call and for being vulnerable. That was a hard one. All right, let's take one more call. Let's go to Mark. Let's go to Mark in Illinois. What's up, brother Mark? Hey, Dr. John. Good to talk to you today. You too, good man.

Yeah, I've got an interesting one for you. Okay. I am an ER doctor and have had to, or I've tried to lead some good team debriefs after some pretty awful cases we've had over the last few months. And I was trying to figure out if there are any good resources for ways to improve the ability to kind of work on the leadership side of things for that and to kind of help guide the debrief process for it. Cause I, I really believe that's an important thing for, uh, all the staff members after some of these rough cases we've had, but, uh, just wanted to see if there's any good tips you've had. Cause I think, uh, listening to the show in the past, you've had some definite experience in this area. Yeah, man, I'm glad you weren't on my last show. We batch record some of these shows.

And the last show that I did, I kind of went on a rant about firemen and police officers and physicians and all sorts of leaders who don't honor the people that work for them, especially when they're working the messy, broken lives of other people. And so, of course, as fate would have it, you're on the next show, man. So I want to tell you, I love you. And I'm really proud of you being a guy who not only goes in and is with people and families in the absolute pit of despair and their hardest, hardest, most traumatic moments, literally. But I also want to thank you for being a good leader and a good man in their hardest, hardest, most traumatic moments, literally. But I also want to thank you for being a good leader and a good man in a hard, hard situation, caring for the people who are caring for other people. That makes you a special man, Mark. So I appreciate you. All right. Appreciate that as well. So my certification, I went through a training process. It was CISM, Critical Incident Stress Management. And there's one for group and there is one for individuals.

I will go back and I don't remember exact school that it was from, but I will put it in the show notes and you can check on it. The guy who trained us, it was a week-long training, not to mention the regular crisis response we were doing live. But it was really a remarkable training. And I can give you a couple of the high level tips that I carry with me to this day that make some of those after action debriefs, help them be healthy and help them be something that supports everybody and lets us all go home and come back the next day. Something I say often is when you work in an ER, when you work in those crisis response moments, even teachers, right? Even teachers who go into schools and out of schools every day, it's like working sanitation. It's like working in the sewer

and you've got to put on your suit, but then you got to hose that thing off when you get done before you go home and take that stuff home. And before you get all over your house, get all of your kids and your wife and your husband and those kind of folks, right? And so what those debriefs are is just those check-in moments, right? And I know you know this. I'm telling the folks who are listening. These are these check-in moments when you circle everybody up after a bad car wreck, when three or four people die in a traumatic car wreck, or when children especially.

Those were always hard for me personally. But they're in just intentional circle ups. Is everybody doing okay? Anybody have anything to say? Before I launch into these, how have you led those in the past? Give me a scenario. Oh, I guess one of them was a particular bad day, similar to the examples actually that

you just mentioned there. And, uh, it was one that you could tell the EMS crews on scene had a really rough go of it. So I've just mentioned to the chargers, Hey, we need to get a, at least a wet debrief here to try to get as many people to get this one off the mind as we can. Uh called back the EMS crews that had been out and about still and got as many of the staff that hadn't already left for their shift later on in the evening, just went to the conference room, and I just started off with kind of talking over the medical things that were going on and then how ugly of a case that was

and how that's not something that anybody's supposed to have to see and just trying to pull some input from the crowd as to things that they thought went well, things that could have done better, and just trying to see how everybody's doing with it and get some individual kind of emotion feedback as well on it. Okay. Who was in that group with you? We had a bunch of the nurses, techs.

The other doc that was involved with some of the other cases was able to pop in briefly with it. And then several of the EMS providers were able to come back to the hospital and be there as well, which some of those were students in training. So that was a definite rough day for them. Yeah. So here's a couple of things that I remember that they were real clear on, and it has to do with processing. Not so much, as you mentioned, dealing with, so you can put it down or leave it, but think of it more as a way for it to come into you. You've seen this. And for those of you who don't know and are listening, EMS folks,

trauma nurses, ER doctors, they will see things in a given day that most people could never imagine. They could never believe that they just saw what they saw. And so I want you to think about it more, Mark, as not a thing that you see and that you just get rid of. It literally has to cycle through you. And what a good debrief does is it provides community. It provides a group of people with a shared experience. One thing that's real important about those groups is that they are homogeneous. And that's a, you know that word, but it's a nerd word for saying it's of people of the same profession, the same status, the same place. And so one of the errors I've made before that I

learned was if you get, and I'll just use your example. If you put a couple of doctors and charge nurses and trauma nurses and a few straggling EMS folks all in the same room, there's all sorts of power hierarchies going on at the same time. And nurses – a nurse may be apprehensive to say something because she may have a performance review with that doctor that didn't go well three weeks ago. And this nurse doesn't want to look weak because she might get promoted. It just makes things messy. And so one of the first things I would do is to split people up in groups that are just nurses, just EMS folks, just the maintenance and facilities folks who saw things. And even if it's just two or three or four doctors, just two or three or four frontline staff, do those debriefs. They don't have to be long, but do them with just those small groups because nurses will talk to nurses, right? Doctors will talk to doctors.

The second thing is something to remember, and this surprised me, but it was most people don't need extra help most of the time. And so we may, you may see, I may have seen as a crisis responder, a really gnarly suicide or a really messy car wreck, a really ugly, heartbreaking car wreck. And I may, it may impact me in a certain way, but then I was able to get up tomorrow, journal about it, talk to a couple of friends, talk to my supervisor about it. And then I'm whole and I'm ready to go back in. Usually it's just one or two people that aren't, or really get stuck in there and they're straggling. So it's to keep an eye out for the outliers. And then another thing that's important is a weekly report tool, some sort

of regular, are these nurses always checking in with their doctor? Are they always checking in with their floor supervisor in a regular way? And here's why that's important. If you only have check-ins when things are going wrong, it tends to shift the entire bell curve of the ER. It shifts the bell curve of the entire culture. So having regular check-ins, even when things went great that day, which in an ER, right, is never great. But if you have check-ins at the end of a week or at the end of every other day or just 10-minute get-togethers, and this is going to sound cheesy because nobody's got time to do this, especially in ER, but if there are daily

or weekly or monthly shout-outs led by the doctors, you're talking about culture change from the inside out because y'all own the power there. Y'all are the go-to guys. Y'all are the men and women who are at the top of the heap there. And if y'all come in and say, I saw this nurse doing something incredible. I saw Susan was struggling and she went home that day and I want to applaud her for her bravery and for taking herself out so she could be well and then come back. Now you're talking really strong systemic culture change, but it keeps it from just getting together when there's things that are bad. Yeah. And then the, let's see here, compassion and flexibility with yourself and with your team.

I told the story once on this podcast, it hasn't come out yet, but it will come out soon. I responded to something. I had a little girl. I responded to a Christ situation that involved a little girl. And I looked at my partner and I did the no-no. I left my partner. I said, I can't do this. I got to go. And she, Janice, she was incredible. And she said, I got you. But I had to be flexible with myself and I couldn't beat myself up the next day. So I called my supervisor and said, hey, I had to step out of this one. And my partner stepped up and I apologized to her, and she's like, man, I got you. And we have flip-flopped that role before. But it's being flexible with yourself.

I know you as an ER doc, you can't do that, right? Sometimes an ER nurse can say, hey, I've got a 5-year-old son, and that 5-year-old little boy on that gurney, I can't be in the room right now. And somebody steps up, and everybody knows that's okay to do here. Now, I know every hospital isn't staffed that way, and every social work office isn't staffed that way, but there's something about the compassion and flexibility. And then I'll tell you the most important thing on a debrief. This is the last thing I'll leave you with. Is you as the doctor, man, if you model compassion, and you model humanity,

and you model as the leader, as the head honcho, you model, hey, this really hurts and this sucks and I'm struggling with this one. This one's hard. You will give permission for everyone that works with you and around you to feel human too. And most of the – what trauma does is it disconnects us from our humanity. You know that. But it allows us to reenter humanity, whether it's through tears or whether it's through joy or whether it's just witnessing somebody else be vulnerable.

And you as the honcho, you as the ER doc being vulnerable, oh, my gosh, man, what a gift, brother. What a gift. And so getting everybody in the same groups, letting everybody be open, doing it on the regs, and then you being somebody who is vulnerable and shows that, models that, man, you're going to talk about a completely renewed culture in an ER that, man. Can you imagine everyone in the ER being whole, dude? And everyone's – it sucks and it's hard. It's ugly, messy work. But they came in ready to rock and roll because they were resilient and restored. Man, what a gift you'd be to that crew and to the families who are in their worst moments, right?

Yep. Man. Yeah. Can I again, Mark, I just want to tell you thank you. Thank you for what you do. It's hard. Hard, hard work. Well, yeah, certainly appreciate having the opportunity to try to be helpful on stuff.

Do you have, are you married? Do you get little ones? Married, no little ones at this point. Okay. Sometime in the future? Yeah, it's in the future. Good deal. Well, do me a favor. I want you to go home tonight, and I want you to go to your spouse and say, tell her that you love her and that you are grateful for her and connect with her in a meaningful way.

And that's going to begin a journey of resilience that's going to be powerful and strong. Oh, man. All right. So as we wrap up today's Halloween edition, those were some challenging calls. We're going to be thinking about folks, we're going to be praying for folks. And as we wrap up with the song of the day, the greatest song ever written, not in the 60s, not in the 70s, not in the 1800s, but in 1984, a young man that many hadn't heard before

may have borrowed a song from Huey Lewis, but Ray Parker Jr. hit the scene and he taught us where to go when we don't know what to do. Ray said, if there's something strange in your neighborhood, who are you going to call? Ghostbusters. If there's something weird and it don't look good,

who are you going to call? Ghostbusters. You know what Ray said? He ain't afraid of no ghost. Nope. I ain't afraid of no ghost. If there's something strange in my neighborhood, who am I going to call? Ghostbusters. And this is the Dr. John Deloney Show. you