The Dr. John Delony Show - Did I Have an Emotional Affair?

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A woman realizing her relationship with a coworker has crossed the line - A wife frustrated with her unemployed husband - A man unsure of how to tell his wife he needs some time away Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Building a Non-Anxious Life Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My husband hasn't worked now in ten and a half months. He makes excuses of why he can't go to work. And who's paying bills? Are you out working too? Yes, but right now I'm on maternity. Are you going to leave him? Are you almost done? Actually, yes. I've been strongly considering separation. What in the world's going on?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Show about your mental and emotional health, your marriage, your dating relationships, coming back from the brink, building something new. We talk about kids, we talk about schools. We talk about everything on this show. Been doing this for two decades, sitting with people when the wheels have absolutely fallen off their life. And the reason I do this is because I believe in hope. And I believe that no matter where you happen to find yourself, tomorrow can look better. And actually, tomorrow might be worse. and the day after that might be worse. But over time, I believe in the human spirit because I've seen it over and over and over again.

And that means I believe in you. If you want to be on this show, I promise I'll sit with you, and we will figure out at least one next step. If you want to be on this show, give me a call at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. While you're at johndeloney.com, pick up my number one bestselling book, Building a Non-Anxious Life. Nothing says I love you for holiday gifts, like handing somebody a book about them building a non-anxious life. I can't imagine how happy I would be if I opened a stocking stuffer and I realized that everyone in my life thought I should probably work on my emotional and mental health. So it's great marriage material and

Christmas presents. And don't forget to pick up Questions for Humans, the new decks for the holidays. I'm going to save your holiday season. Let's start doing holidays. Well, we need to like, you should make that your next tattoo. Let's start doing holidays. Well,

no. All right. Or you could get another one called a Texas Rangers or a bunch of losers. But the, see, the thing is that would be a lie because they're not here. We go. Cause right now we're up two to one in the world series.

Yeah. By the time this comes out. Now, the Astros, on the other hand. Let's go out to Philadelphia and talk to Lynn. What's up, Lynn? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? Good.

How are you? I am nervously sweating right now, but I'm okay. I'm excited to talk to you. You get the nervous sweats? Yeah, definitely. I kind of do too. It's freezing where you are, isn't it? It is. Yeah, it's getting cold, so there's no reason to be sweating right now. Well, especially because I'm not very good at this, but we'll figure it out. All right. So

how can I help? What's up? So my boyfriend told me yesterday that he found some text messages on my phone. I actually sent you an email last week saying that I think I've had an emotional affair with a married coworker at my remote job. My boyfriend wants to forgive me and work through this together. So my main question is, how do I salvage my relationship with my boyfriend and talk to him about it? I really don't know where to begin or how I got here. Yeah. So what happened? Forget boyfriend, forget, put boyfriend over to the side. What happened?

So I have been with this company for like three years and I took a position about a year and a half ago where I started to work more one-on-one, even though it's a completely remote job, I started to have more one-on-one sessions with my coworkers. And that's where I met the coworker. And at first, he just was really nice to me and would send me funny memes through the platform that we work through or send me a song that he liked or something. And I thought that it was really just a friendship, which is why I didn't set up really firm boundaries at the time. But then he started kind of just like complimenting me a lot, telling me that he thought I was really smart and funny and kind and pretty and all these things. And it was really nice to hear those things. And I just kind of let myself get swept

into it to the point where I wanted to try and fix things and tell my boyfriend about it, but I didn't even know where to begin. So that's kind of where it all started with that coworker. So I, most emotional affairs happen on, I always had a different word, but on some kind of continuum or a spectrum. Everything from this person makes me feel so good. They laugh at my jokes. They tell me I'm beautiful. They tell me I'm smart. And I'm starting to go to them for that affirmation when I should be going to the person I'm exclusive with or the person I'm

married. Emotional affairs can also have some real intimate, like, let's talk about our spouses or let's talk about our boyfriends and girlfriends together or how they just don't understand, but you do, right? And it kind of escalates a little bit. Emotional affairs can be um i love you let's meet up and let's have lunch um emotional affairs can someone somewhat and i don't know how i would i have to sit down and think this through but i'm just thinking everything up to physical so we traded topless pictures we've traded you know like stuff that we would never want someone else to find out. So when I lay it out like that, where are you? I, it didn't escalate to the point where it became like sexual. It definitely, what I would say crossed the line of becoming romantic, where I started opening up about how

just being very vulnerable about things that I shouldn't have been, either like things within my relationship that I was unhappy about, but also just the fact that I'm unhappy with where I'm at in life. At my age and at this point in my life, I thought I would be married with kids by now. And I brought this up to him and he started to say that I was deserving of those things and that he wanted to take me, you know, he started to kind of say that I was deserving of those things and that he wanted to take me on a date and he wanted to see me in person and just kind of like affirming those things that I was opening up about. So it didn't cross the bounds of let's go hook up. It was more like romantic of like, I want to take you on a date and treat you well and give you all the things that you want.

Okay. And I want everyone listening to get how dicey this, how slippery this is, right? Because I would tell you some of what he told you. Like if you were coworkers with me and you were like, man, my marriage is a wreck and this and this, I would tell you, I want more for you than that. And then I would say, I think y'all should go see somebody. And then I would say, I really want to, I wouldn't say, I want to take you on a date. Right? I don't know. Well, I don't say that. I know more people than haven't, that have than haven't have found themselves in this situation. Okay. So I want you to know,

I don't think you're crazy. I don't think you're a terrible person. Thank you. I think you have a line that you crossed and I think that's important. And let me say this. You have a line that you've crossed. I think that is huge. Number two, now boyfriend's involved. I don't like the way you started the call because you started the call with boyfriend found some text. I would love for you from this point forward to begin to take 100% ownership of what has happened and what comes next, which is I crossed a line with a coworker. Others may not see it as a big deal. I didn't hold hands. I didn't make out.

I didn't send any like topless photos. I didn't do anything like that. But I know I crossed a line to where I started thinking about this person. I started fantasizing about this person. I started wondering what my life would be like with them. And I have this long-term boyfriend who thinks we're exclusive. And so whatever the line is,

I want you to start that way and then to come across and then got to deal with boyfriend. So what is it, what boyfriend find? So, sorry, I'm really nervous. You're okay, you're doing great. He found some texts that were just on my phone where basically my coworker was offering to cook me dinner and inviting me to come over. And he was like, hey, you know, I know about this coworker. offering to cook me dinner and inviting me to come over.

And he was like, hey, I know about this coworker. You've told me about them. I didn't know you guys exchanged phone numbers and were having these type of conversations. It seems really inappropriate. And at that moment, I know that this sounds bad, but I was waiting until after I talked with you to be able to talk with him about it because I didn't even know how to bring it up. So I genuinely wanted to talk to him about it, but I wanted to get some advice first because searching on the internet, you find all sorts of things.

You find people telling you to never talk about it with them and just pretend like it didn't happen. And you find people telling you that you need to have them read every single text message you ever sent and completely open up your phone to your boyfriend. And I understand both sides, but it got to be very confusing to what I should do. So when he asked me about it, I was honest and I told him when it started and when things crossed the line. And that's when my boyfriend started asking if he could read the messages. And that was kind of also another question I wanted to ask you is, do you think that it's helpful to have him read all those text messages if I know that what's in them could be hurtful for him? I think he gets to

decide that. Okay. Because I think that here's the thing going forward, no secrets. And I trust you that when he said, hey, what in the world's going on? Like I knew about this guy and I knew you thought he was awesome. I didn't, now he's offering to like have you over to his house and make you food, right? Like that's an invitation for sex. And I want you to come over to my house. And by the way, there's people who would read that exchange and be like, yeah, nothing really happened here. I could see where this could go, but nothing really happened here. So that's why what's important is you saying, no, no, no lines were crossed. Even if we weren't physical, I know where my head was at. And I felt so alive when he asked me to come over and I actually

considered how would I make this thing happen? Right? You know, all those things. I'm going to tell you the secrets will kill your relationship. That's number one. Number two, I would ask him if he was on the phone, do you trust her? Yes. Do you trust that nothing happened physically? Yes. Do you trust that y'all have some things y'all have to work out? Because this guy was able to come in and say some things that lit her up like a Christmas tree.

Yes. I would probably say, do you need to go through the nitty gritty details of everything? And some people would say, I do. I won't be able to sleep at night without mining the whole thing. And he gets to say that and you get to decide yay or nay. I would probably tell him, maybe, maybe not. I know, and me personally, I would probably tell them Maybe maybe not I know Me personally I would want to see Every single thing Knowing that it would kill me

And I can name five friends On all five fingers on my right hand Who would not want to know Like no I don't need to see that I know we got some stuff we got to deal with and whatever So I'm going to go deal with it But I trust my wife she says she didn't do that She didn't do that I trust my girlfriend she says she didn't do that Like, no, I don't need to see that. I know we got some stuff we got to deal with and whatever. So I'm going to go deal with it. But I trust my wife.

She says she didn't do that. She didn't do that. I trust my girlfriend. She says she didn't do that. She didn't do that. I think we have to sit down and say, you lead the charge. Again, I want to reiterate, I messed up. And I think it's fair to say, I didn't hold hands.

We didn't kiss. I didn't go to his house. We didn't meet secretly. But in my heart, I messed up. That's number one. Number two, I have deleted everything off social media, off my phone, except for the text messages, unless he wants to see them. But I don't have a way to access this person anymore. They're out of my life. I've asked my boss to not be in contact with them or I've let them know, hey, we are not communicating anymore.

My relationship with my boyfriend is too important. Period. Very, very clear. I also see what you're saying where you're right. I didn't take accountability at the beginning and I feel disgusted with myself because I don't want to say that, you know, this person did make me feel alive and made me feel special and all of these things, because, you know, I love my boyfriend. He's, I love him to death. Like he's my family. I feel that way about his family. He

feels that way about mine. I really, he's the only person I feel that way about his family. He feels that way about mine. I really, he's the only person I've ever dated that I could see a future with. And then I see him being my future spouse. But hold on, those aren't mutually exclusive. And if you spend time talking to couples, it's staggering how often something like this happens. Somebody has a one night stand. Somebody has, they have an affair and by all accounts, their marriage is great. They're raising kids together. They have a home together. They laugh. They go on dates. They have a great sex life. And then this other thing happens over here. That is not weird or strange or out of the norm. It doesn't, it blows a hole in our fantasy that one, that the perfect marriage means nothing can ever happen.

That's not true. And what you're finding out is I became somebody that I never thought I would be. And your whole foundation that that wasn't going to be me because I saw the harm that it did to her. I never wanted to be that person. Okay. Can I tell you, I honor your anger and frustration and disgust with yourself. And you could have gone over there, couldn't you? If you had said, hey, I just got us a room at the hotel, meet me at nine o'clock tonight. He would have shown up, wouldn't he? Yeah. Yeah. And so I also, at the same time, want to say, you've got to reckon with you.

I also want to say, but you held the line, both and, okay? Okay. And I also want to acknowledge, and let's just put it out there. We're having the conversation. We're already here. It was hard to hold the line, wasn't it? Yeah. I mean, a lot of the things that he was saying were things that I felt like I was dreaming to hear from someone.

And honestly, I didn't want to tell my boyfriend, this is what you have to say to me to make me feel good. Because that feels fake. That doesn't feel genuine. That feels inauthentic for me to tell him this is what you have to say. That's a bullcrap Hollywood story. Hmm. What your boyfriend has to know is here's the things that make me feel alive. When you say this, when you do this, then I feel loved. But right now you've been asking him to

read your mind and he's unable to do that. And slowly you're dying inside yeah and then a guy who cheats on his wife or wants to cheat on his wife and by the way i hate to tell you this you're not the only one in his life but the person who cheats on his wife happens to know the things to get somebody fired up. Happens to know all the right things to say. I mean, I think I partially felt less guilty about it because he claims to be like separated from his wife. They always do. They always do. They always are in the process of breaking up or we've left each other or there's always a thing.

Yeah. Always a story. My boyfriend asked me like, what did I do wrong? And it really makes me feel, I feel bad because he really does think this is his fault. And how do I really explain to him that what happened was not really his fault. It was my own fault. I made the decision to entertain it and to keep the back and forth going. You did.

And he's an attentive boyfriend who loves his girlfriend. And he is going to have to wrestle with that because he's going to want to solve it. And you're going to have to be honest and open and say, what I did, what I chose to do was my doing. And here's what I need moving forward. And I need you to be very clear about what you need moving forward to feel trust, to feel safe, to feel like I'm all in. Okay. And if that's look at my phone, then that's look at my phone. If that is one of those apps that every text message that comes in, he gets a copy of that text on his

phone too. Okay. We'll do that for a season. Okay. And if his demands for what he's going to need are too high, you get to say no. And your relationship is over. Okay. What you can't do is try to manage what he feels on his side. He gets to own that all of it But I think it's fair to say this this situation and by the way, I don't think it was just this guy I think he happened to be there I think your earlier comment and at the beginning of this call. It was the most honest thing you've said and that is

I I didn't at the beginning of this call, it was the most honest thing you've said. And that is, I didn't want to feel like this, but suddenly I found myself feeling like this. I don't think it was him. I think it was any number of men could have filled that role, telling you that you have value and that you're awesome and you're hilarious and you're smart and they want to spend extra time with you and they're willing to break the rules of their marriage and of society to be with you. It made you feel alive again. And so the reckoning is, can we repair this relationship and rebuild something new? Yes, you can. Boyfriend that I love, what do you need? I'm all, I'm wide open. And you have needs in this process,

the rebuilding process too. Sometimes people overcorrect and they dump everything. What do you need? What do you need? What do you need? I have to pay a penance. So I get no say in the rebuild and you're going to find yourself dead again

and this whole thing happens again. So if y'all both choose to rebuild, he's choosing to look at you and say, what do you need to feel alive here? And you have to get over that the world isn't the notebook. It isn't some Hollywood show and you have to say the things that you need. I need you to tell me you love me.

I need you occasionally to laugh at my jokes, need. I need you to tell me you love me. I need you occasionally to laugh at my jokes, even if they're not that funny. Occasionally, remind me that I'm smart and I have value and purpose around here, please. Will you occasionally or often help out with the dishes, with the home, offer to cook me a meal? You got to be open about those things. And he's probably been squashing some things too. It wouldn't surprise me if he felt a little bit dead inside. Also, he gets to say, all right, while we're here, right? This is a rebuild. This isn't a, let's get back to the way things were. The way things were is over now. And you are going to have to work to trust you again, because you saw your dad do it and you saw your stepdad do it,

and then you found yourself right on the edge leaning over. And again, I want to end this call with this. You held the line. You crossed, you know, you fell for somebody. You had a crush on somebody. You had feelings for somebody. Fair. But you held the line,

and I'm proud of you for that because that's hard tonight you sit down with boyfriend and say i messed up i want to rebuild this whole thing from the floor up what are you going to need and here's what i'm going to need i'm in if you're in and by the way all of this starts with you looking him in the eye and say, I will never contact that person again. And I will never receive contact from that person again. Period. Thank you so much for the call.

I know this is scary and you're pretty brave. And millions and millions and millions and millions of Americans are experiencing this exact thing or have. It's hard. And I promise there's healing on the other side if you both are in. You're awesome, Lynn. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks.

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Go right now and change your life. All right, we're back. Let's go out to the home of the greatest food on planet Earth, San Antonio, Texas, and talk to Sarah. What's up, Sarah? Hi, Dr. Don. How are you? I'm hanging in there. How are you? About the same. Oh, boy. Don. How are you? I'm hanging in there.

How are you? About the same. Oh, boy. So what's up? So I need some help. I'm very exhausted and overwhelmed handling a situation with my husband and my 15-year-old son. It's two separate situations. Let's start with husband.

Husband, okay. My husband hasn't worked now in 10 and a half months. Why? He got fired from his job, and I don't know. He makes excuses of why he can't go to work, why he doesn't try to find a job. He gets too distracted, there's too many things to do. This then, it's just one excuse after another. I don't know.

How has that gone in your home? I mean, who's paying bills? Are you out working too? Yes, but right now I'm on maternity. I've been out since the end of August. So you have a 15-year-old and an infant? There's actually four kids, 15, 13. We're a blended family.

Okay. Those two kids are from my previous marriage, and then we have two kids A two-year-old and a newborn Good God So what does he do all day? Sometimes he sleeps He sleeps for hours

He's got a lot of mental health issues going on Uh-huh Sounds like he's struggling Yes And he'll get distracted Busy himself with straightening things, emptying containers, filling containers. So let me ask you this. I have a hard, hard question to ask just to kind of cut to the chase. Sure.

Are you going to leave him? Are you almost done? I actually, yes, I've been strongly considering separation. Okay. When you've been facing this for a year, 10 months, right? You're basically been doing this for a year. You have to have in mind your or what conversation. And what I mean by your or what conversation is,

you sit down and say, you have to go see a doctor or a psychologist or a counselor within the next seven days or I'm moving out. You have to go get a job and begin going to the job every day. And we've had, by the way, the greatest run of job opportunities in American history the last 36 months. 24 months. He can get a job tomorrow. He can get a job today. He can get two jobs today. And actually, depending on what his mental health diagnostic is, who knows what he's going through.

If he's got depression disorder, if he's got, who knows? But often getting up and getting a job is helpful. It gives you a thing to go towards. It gives you a purpose, a role. It gives you meaning, right? Not every situation. That's why he needs to go see somebody. But you have to have a very firm or what?

Because you've been hem-hawing and hinting at this and getting mad at him for 10 months now, right? Right. What did he get fired for? Stealing. What was he stealing? Money and gift cards. Well, that might make it hard to get a job.

Jeez Louise. Yeah. What was his response to getting caught and getting fired? He was very, I wouldn't say remorseful. I think he was more panicked that he got caught and, and shocked. Is that the kind of guy he is? No, well, not the kind of guy that I thought he was. We've been married since 2019. Um, no, I really, I was shocked when I found out that he was stealing. Um, that's not the husband that i know that wasn't in his character however

later to find out he was fired from two other jobs for stealing and i did not know that oh well geez hey sarah lead with that next time okay lead with that yeah so you're married to somebody who is a crook who steals and is constantly fired from his job repeatedly fair this is not a fair question but i have to ask it why did you go through and have kid number four um he so i found out i was pregnant one week before he was fired. Oh, geez. I'm so sorry. I'm happy that your baby's coming. I hope your baby's healthy and wonderful and all that's great. And I can just imagine how much this complicates things.

Yeah. What is your plan? If you moved out tomorrow, what would your plan be? Where would you go? So what I would want, I've been working with a counselor. I would want him to move out. Okay. We're in a three-bedroom apartment.

We had a house. We had to sell the house when he lost his job and wouldn't work. And I would want him out. And the kids and I stay in the apartment. Can you afford that? When I go back to work, yes. It'll be tight, but yes. Okay. The research tells me, unfortunately, that when somebody has to leave their husband for any number of reasons,

the husband's net worth goes up a little bit and her net worth goes down somewhat significantly, especially in the short term. Yeah. So I want to make sure you have an ironclad plan. Right. And I don't right now. That's what I'm trying to work on. That's why I haven't done anything. I need you to stop trying to work on this.

I need you to get very tactical very quick. Okay I need you to get very tactical, very quick. Okay. Do you have somebody in your life you could have that conversation with? Yes, a counselor. Okay. Also, at the end of this call, I want you to hang on. I'm going to give you a couple of free financial coaching calls with the team at Ramsey Solutions. Okay?

And they will help you build a budget that is based on real numbers and real life. Okay. Okay? Thank you. But practicing with your counselor is really smart. And next time you go to your counselor, I want you to say these words.

I'm ready to practice my final conversation. And they can help you write it. They can help you script it. They can help you speak it out loud, feel it in your body, so that when you actually sit down across from your husband and you lay it out there, you have rehearsed it.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, well, let me just say this. I'm sorry. This isn't how it's supposed to be. The guy you married and have kids with is not supposed to be secretly stealing from his business,

and then you find out he's been doing it for years. Husbands are not supposed to get fired and then sit around for 10 months. People get fired, life happens. People get laid off, that happens, that's life. But you don't get to sit around for 10 months while your pregnant wife is working up until the day she has a baby. I'm sorry, that's not supposed to be how that is. He's supposed to be out there with four jobs and he's going to be very hard to hire right now because he's been dishonest so many times, but he can get a job mowing lawns and he can get a job delivering for Uber and he can get a job delivering pizzas and he can get a job at a dog grooming place. He could figure it out.

He's choosing. He can get a job with all the buildings going on in San Antonio. He can get a job on a site, but he's choosing not to. And can get a job with all the building that's going on in San Antonio. He can get a job on a site. But he's choosing not to. And he can go deal with his mental health challenges and he's choosing not to. Yeah. Are you safe, Sarah? Yes. Why the pause?

Sorry. It's okay he's been getting more angry um verbally abusive towards me and the kids um yeah a few weeks ago he left my stranded. He kicked him out of the car. He was mad with his attitude. How old is your son? 15. He's watching his dad constantly get fired for being dishonest. And he's watching his dad lay around the house. Of course he's a 15-year-old with an attitude. He's watching his pregnant mom float the whole family. Of course he has an attitude. Yeah. Do you have family in the area, Sarah?

No. My husband has family, and they're all rather supportive in talking to me of trying to figure out what to do. What does that mean? They're supportive of him or they're supportive of you? They know he's a deadbeat. They're supportive of me.

Okay. What I like to look at in these situations is trend lines, escalation lines, and this seems to be trending in the very wrong direction. It sounds like as you're getting closer and closer to going back to work and he is out longer and longer, he's getting angrier and angrier and less safe and less safe. True or false? True. I missed that.

True. Okay. So how much longer are you going to wait? That's the question that I can't figure out. You need to make a call now. I keep waiting and waiting. It's not going to happen. You've waited a year and now your kids are paying the price. How long are you going to make a call now I keep waiting and waiting it's not going to happen you've waited a year and now your kids are paying the price

how long are you going to wait because you're worth more than this and you know that they're worth more than this and you know that he's worth more than this for God's sake how much longer yeah

do you think as a 30 day time frame How much longer? Yeah. Do you think as a 30-day time frame to give him an ultimatum to have full-time employment within 30 days is appropriate, inappropriate, too much, too little? What is your input? I think he needs to be separated from you guys immediately based on leaving a 15-year-old on the side of the road. Because what that shows me is that he is emotionally either very, very immature or he is struggling profoundly emotionally to the point that he can't be in the presence of minor children.

Because he's letting his inability to control himself as the adult in the room or in the car be managed by a child. And that's not your 15-year-old's job. Your 15-year-old's job is to push boundaries and to figure out how the world works. It's dad's job to act like dad and to be the firm, responsible adult in that interaction. And he is unable to do that right now. I don't mind 30-day separations or ultimatums. I think those can be very wise sometimes, but they have to have ground rules to them. Here's the date. We will reconvene in 30 days at this restaurant at this time. And by that time, you will show me you have three to four weeks of weekly counseling.

You will show me that you have full-time employment at at least two places. And you will show me your first pay stub. And in the meantime, I'm going to meet with an attorney to begin drawing up separation papers. Okay. And that means he's got to find a place to live that means he's got to get real responsible real fast Based on what you're telling me. I don't think he can make it But I do understand your heart And not wanting to be a single mom with four kids over like suddenly, right?

Yeah, I get that Real quick. What's your challenge with your 15-year-old? My 15-year-old, he's been vaping. Yeah. You know why? Because it works. That's what he says. Yeah. I don't blame that 15-year-old one second. It's dumb and it's going to make him sick, but good God, I don't blame that kid for a second. I'm glad that's all he's doing. It's probably not all he's doing, by the way, but I'm glad.

Yeah. He's been in therapy for a few years, and he has a plan with his counselor. He wants to quit by the beginning of the new year is what he says. He wants to quit vaping? Yeah. Okay. Give him an environment where his body will let him rest.

Yeah. He needs peace. He needs peace. Anytime a 15-year-old heads into any sort of substance use, A, it feels good, right? It's just different. It's sensation, and kids seek sensation. get their hands on that stuff. And it's the adult's job to talk it through. And it's the adult's job to play defense. I'm not ever going to get mad at a 14 year old for wanting to feel like a buzz does what it feels like to smoke a cigarette or to feel like dip or to feel like whatever.

But in this situation, I get it completely because he's got to figure out some way to bring his body down because his body's at war, right? Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, when you kick dad out, you're going to be the bad guy for a season. You got to make peace with that. With your 15-year-old, you're playing a long game with him. Because he sees himself in his father, right?

His stepdad. He's your kid, that's stepdad? Right. Where's his bio dad? Here in the same town, but they're estranged. He sees himself in his dad.

And he knows part of me is that guy. And that haunts him. And the next example of a man he has is his stepdad, who is so out of control, he dropped a 15-year-old off on the side of the road. And the other half of him is his mom, who he's watching hold the whole house up. But that boy, you're right. The boy needs peace.

You need peace, Sarah. Your whole household does. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to call your counselor and say, I'm ready to make a 30-day plan. I want you to Google Terry Real. I just mentioned this in a recent episode. TerryReal.com or TerrenceReal.com, T-E-R-R-Y. And I want you to Google the 10 rules of a separation, of a trial separation, and it will

pop up. And he's got the 10 rules. I want you to print that off and take that with your counselor, and I want you to map it out. But I never am in the business of making this call. You've decided you want to do this. I am in the business of protecting kids, especially. I think the time is now. And I want you all to get this thing practiced, get this thing done, and have that conversation with husband ASAP. He needs help. You need help. And you need some clarity. And hang on the line. I'm going to hook you up with those financial coaches. I know that it's super easy to be like, you need to go. It's time. There's a fiscal reality, especially for what's about to be single moms. It's harder than just, you need to move on out and empower yourself. Okay, cool. But I can't send empowerment certificates to the lighting company, right? So we're going to help you make a plan,

a roadmap financially, right? With the Ramsey Financial Coaches. So hang on the line. Also, I'm going to send you the EveryDollar app. I'm going to send you FPU for a year. Okay? That's going to be my gift to you to give you some sort of plan to follow financially

after this whole mess is over. Because there's going to be a very significant fiscal reality to a three-bedroom apartment in San Antonio and four kids and one income. That's going to be tough, tough, tough, tough. And you're worth it. And you might have to end up moving. You might have to make some calls for some support and help in the interim.

You are worth it. Thank you for the call. Call any time. If your husband wants to call, I'd love to talk to him too. We you for the call. Call anytime. If husband wants to call, I'd love to talk to him too. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Idaho and talk to Ryan. What's up, Ryan? How we doing? Partying, dude. What are you up to?

Just living another day. There you go. It's better than the alternative. What's up, man? Yeah, very sure. So my question for you is how do I know when I need to put my family and or my wife on the back burner for a season. Family's easier. Wife is another story. What's going on? Right. So over the last few years, you know, I've, I mean, I'm not, I shouldn't say I'm not much of a social person because I am, but just lately I've been kind of wanting to start dreaming and start doing more.

And, but I got, you know, like family members and, or my wife, they're like, no, you don't want to do that. You're going to want to do this, or you don't want to go there. You're going to want to come here. Give me an example of what you're talking about. So like being debt free, um, a year ago, I took a weekend for myself to really try to figure out what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it because I'm tired of living paycheck to paycheck. Back in 2015, or back at the end of 2014, I was debt-free completely.

I was just like, all right, I'm going to go. I'm going to get into my career. I'm going to do the things that I want to do and just make a great life out of it. You know, and I was in discussion with my mom and my mom's just like, well, you're single. So, you know, date a girl for a year, you know, and see where that thing goes. And then, you know, after a year or whatever, you know, you guys get married. Well, in early 2015, I met a girl. We had a great time, met her family. And within three months of knowing each other, four months of knowing each other, we are engaged. And by June, you were, you know, June of that year, we were married. Things were great. I was living life, you know, things were going well.

And then all of a sudden, you know, I mean, we have a good relationship between each other, which is, you know, it's not, that's not the bad thing it's just that our my debt-free status went from a hundred percent to hey we need to go to the store and buy this we need to go to the store and buy that we need to do this or we need to do that and i you know okay you're right you know happy wife happy life that's stupid advice so, I mean, and so in the years have gone by, but with just within the last year, I've really gotten tired of living paycheck to paycheck and having that status on me. And I was so happy. And then, you know, I got your, uh, own your past, change your future book. And I was, I mean, that book like literally woke me up. I'm like, all right, I'm going to do this. I'm going to go here. These are the plans

I'm going to make, you know, I'm going to include the wife and, you know, include my family and show them, you know, what this is all about. And I get kind of, well, I mean, it was great then, but maybe not now, or let's just do this or let's just do that. Let me cut you off. Number one, your family's out of the picture. They don't get a vote. Okay. How old are you? I'm 40. And I think, I mean, let's just, so let me, for that reason, it's for a long time, I'm in the, I'm in the middle of child, child in my family and for the longest time,

and for the longest time, my family's always put me on the back burner, told me, you know, let's not do this or let's not do that. Why do you keep asking your family? Because I want their approval, I guess. Okay. That's on you. Quit blaming them. Right. You keep going to them, and they keep giving you advice that's killing you.

It's suffocating you. And you're mad at them. Yeah. Why? Don't give them that. They don't get that power. Look, dude, I love my dad. He's amazing.

And I love my mom. She's incredible. My great, great grandkids will talk about those two. Right. And I didn't ask him about moving to Nashville. I didn't ask him about becoming the Dean of students at a law school. I didn't ask him about the job before that. You know why they don't get a vote. It's my job. Yes. Right. Right. I did ask my wife. Right. And let me tell you this, my conversation with my wife had very little to do with, I want to do this job over that job.

It had to do with, I'm dying. Or her more specifically saying, I'm watching my husband die. Is there something else you can do? And that is very different than, I want a status of being debt-free. I could give a crap about any status of any kind. What I want is freedom. And part of freedom, part of this idea that I can kind of do what I want

within the bounds of the law, part of that is because I don't owe anybody any money. But I don't want the status of debt-free. Similar, I wanted to write a good book. I wanted to actually, I didn't care about that as much as I want people to have more peaceful lives. And I'm sick of the mental health narrative that's out there. And so I have a show. So I wrote a book. And when I sat down to write a book, I decided I want to write a good book. And I wanted, man, it made me feel good when I got the call from the text message from Dave Ramsey telling me, dude, your book just went number one.

That was awesome. And that's not a status I was trying to get. You know why? Because that status lasts about 30 seconds. But having people all over the country say, and all over the world actually say, dude, I had a conversation with my wife that I've never had. I'm going to counseling for that. That's awesome. But my guess is you've never sat down with your wife and said, honey, I can't

breathe. And I'll be honest with you. I have tried and she's just like, well, maybe we need to do this differently or maybe we need to do that differently. And I'm like, okay, let's do it. But then like, you know, I mean, like for example, a year ago, I took a weekend to myself to really kind of just, you know, okay, this, you know, kind of make a plan. Took the weekend, I came back and I sat down with my wife and I said, look, this is neat. This needs to change

and this needs to change. And she just kind of, okay. And nothing's changed. Well, and so what did you tell her needed to change? I just said that I just, we need to be a little bit more, you know, we need to get on a budget. We need to work together. Okay, that's where you went wrong. You disappeared for a weekend, and you came back with a plan for her. True. When you go away for a weekend, I come back, and I just did this. I didn't take a full weekend, but I got away for a day after Basically being out of pocket for a year writing a book selling a book being on the road being all over the place

Then I got super sick and I was out laid out for a week and I had a an event Then I was immediately back on the road. I took a day Right, and then I circled back and you know what I told my wife Here's what I need To do moving forward for this upcoming season. Okay. And that way she didn't have to fight me because I didn't look at her and say, you're going to need to start doing this, this, this, and this.

Right. See the difference? Yeah, I do. You, my friend, have to take some ownership. Okay. And that might look like honey i refuse i'm just not gonna borrow money anymore because i can't breathe okay if you choose to borrow money we need to have deeper conversations about our marriage because whenever i say i can't breathe and you say well i'm going to buy this anyway it feels like that thing you're buying has more value to me than i do more value to you than i do

right every bit of that conversation is not about what she's doing it's about how you feel those are two different things see what what I'm saying? Right. Yeah. But your parents stop asking them. Right. And if they say, Hey man, why are you, Hey mom, dad, I'm 40. I got to start making some of these calls on my own. I appreciate y'all. I love you. Right. You know, um, right. I bought your, your newest book and you know, on that bundle. And when I saw that video, I mean,

I've watched that video constantly. Which one? And the, that, uh, thing you give, they gave that you talked about. Oh,

gotcha. Gotcha. The four things choosing freedom. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I shared that with my mom and I, you know,

I sent it to her and I said, Hey, you got to watch it. Well, about a month later, she, we were, we sent it to her and I said, Hey, you got to watch it. Well, about a month later, she, we were, we were on the phone and she's just like, I can't believe it. I said, what? She's like, you were totally right. And I said, well, what do you mean?

She was like, I've had to watch it. I mean, I've listened to that thing and I've watched that thing like a dozen or so times now. And I was just like, it's, that's, what's changing this whole attitude of my life that's changing my direction and she goes well I will approve with anything you want to do because you know that she doesn't get your approval right no no I mean I'm not saying the approval I'm just saying the fact that I'm headed that way whether you you like it or not, kind of a thing. And she goes, you needed to do this a long time ago. And I was just like, well, of course I did. Awesome. Kind of the same. Good. But it was just, it was great to hear that my mom's just like,

I have to listen to that thing over and over again, because you know what? I don't have to have everybody at the house, you know, I don't have to, you know, she's on her own adventure, dude. If she comes to you in six months or a year and says, Hey, I see you're glowing. I see you laugh a lot more. I see every time we go to dinner. Now you pick up the check and you pay for it in cash. I see you saying,

Hey, we're not going to be able to do how holidays this year, or we're only buying one gift a person. Everybody make peace because that's what we're doing. I had that, by the way, I had that conversation with my son this morning for breakfast. I'm recording this show on a Tuesday. I had that conversation this morning. Hey, by the way, son, this year, we're just going to do two nice things, and I've already got them.

We're going to do a couple of neat adventures, and that's going to be Christmas. And he smiled and goes, you said that the last two years. And I go, I know, but this year I'm being for real. And he goes, that sounds great. But I had that conversation with my son today. You know why he didn't get a vote? He doesn't get a vote, but his mom does. Yes, it probably felt validating and you felt vindicated when your mom said, man, you were

right. We should have done this a long time ago. She doesn't get a vote when she's telling you, you don't want to do that. She also doesn't get a vote when she tells you, oh, you're so right, son, because you're still going to her for approval. It's cool, but dude, you've got to stop seeking your mom's approval. You're 40. You have to decide, how do I want my house to feel when I walk in? What am I going to take ownership? I'm going to take ownership of how I feel and my thoughts and my actions, period. Honey, I can't ever borrow another dollar again.

And if you do, I'm going to feel like the image that you're trying to hold up is more important than me being able to sleep all night or be intimate with you or to be at peace with our kids or whatever's going on. Will you walk this with me? Hang on the line i'm going to send you financial peace university I'm going to send you the courses the nine week the nine lessons. Here's what I want you to do Here's my challenge and i'm in one of those lessons or maybe two of those lessons. Here's my challenge. I want you to ask her Would you be willing to watch these videos with me? Just be willing to watch them with me It would mean the world to me if you did that.

Give that a shot. And here's the deal. She might say no. And if she says no, your marriage is in bigger trouble than you think it is. Because y'all need to have that conversation. It's something of super value, super importance. She's like, nah, I'd rather have a suburban. I'd rather have a suburban and a dead husband than a used whatever and a husband who laughs a lot and is full of joy and has retirement and doesn't owe anybody any money. I'd rather the shiny thing now.

Thanks though. Y'all got bigger issues, bigger fish to fry. My guess is, my super guess is, Ryan, she's sick of playing second to your mom at 40. If you start the conversation with, I have been hanging on to my mom and dad's approval

for so long, I'm done with it. From this point forward, it's just you and me. She might just melt into a puddle on the floor. I'd start there. Thanks for the call, my brother. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here.

Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life.

Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, we have a studio audience and we have a, am I the problem? It's me question. Go for it, Kelly. All right.

I'm going to look out to you guys for approval. Thumbs up or thumbs down, okay? All right. This lady's name, she just goes by GD. I want to give my husband an ultimatum. We buy a house in the summer of 2024, or we don't go overseas to see his family in Pakistan that November. So November 2024. For context, we have put off buying a home of our own in the U.S. in order to help his family overseas to build their

own home, pay for his mom's cancer treatment, and his brother's wedding, all in cash. He also sends money every month to his dad for his expenses. We have one boy and another one on the way. We currently live in an apartment complex that has pests and rodents for over a year, so there's some urgency to improve our living conditions. I feel like our family has been compromised enough for his family's needs, and I need to put my foot down. Am I the problem? Yikes, this one's tough. This one's tough. Nobody raise your thumbs up or down out there.

So here's the thinking through. There's cultural challenges here. There's family challenges here. There's reality challenges here there's family challenges here there's reality challenges on the ground here okay tell me if I'm crazy Kelly I'm looking at you this is a question about a house but it's not oh yeah so much more than this is a question about family values cultural values and what kind of life are we going to build? And this probably should have been a conversation that was had explicitly before you got married.

It's very, very, very common that people move to the US and send money all over the world to take care of family. I can sit here and go, a wedding? I'm not paying for my brother's wedding before I give my wife a house. And I also know weddings have different weight in other cultures, in other countries. I get that too. So I can't speak to what life is like in Pakistan. Mom's cancer treatment, I would probably hold off buying a house and help take care of my mom, right? I get all that. And you got one kid and another one on the way. Your wife needs a home, right? So for me, it's less about put my foot down and more about we need to have a conversation about what kind

of family we're going to have. Because I need to know now, is all of our money going to continue to go away? Because if it does, I got to make some choices about our marriage. If not, I don't know. It's just, this one's messy. I think it's very easy for me as an American to sit here and be like, nope, either or and I'm out of here. Oh, 100%. I think it's more complicated than that.

Yeah. I think maybe there's a compromise somewhere in here. Clearly, they need to get out of where they are. Correct. If there's rats and there's bugs, you don't want to bring children into that. So maybe there's a compromise of, hey, we're going to rent a house for now

and for a year, two years, whatever, and we're going to put some kind of time limit on how long we're sending this money over or whatever. But like you said, it's a conversation that's clearly not happening. Correct. So I don't think she's the problem or not the problem. I think it's they're not talking. Yes.

And I want to hold space for culturally, he may not give a crap what she thinks. It might just be, I'm doing whatever I'm doing. This is what we're doing. Right. And she's got to make that call for herself. Yeah. Or he may be thinking he's being the greatest husband and son in the world

by taking good care of his family and has no idea that she's drowning. I doubt that. But usually when you get to ultimatums, I say that. I say people get to ultimatums and they make the call, but that's not always true. Sometimes people get to ultimatums and they never spoke their needs out loud. I don't think after supporting everybody sending money every month all that

I don't think this is the moment in history to take a humongous family trip That's going to cost 10 000 or 15 000 or 20 000 bucks And maybe it's time to get moved out and rent a house or buy a condo or something um But yeah, it doesn't sound like we're at ultimatum yet. It sounds like we're at really hard, direct conversation. And that's before ultimatum. When he says, I'm not listening to a stupid thing you say. I'm going to do this. This is my money. I'm sitting at overseas to take care of my family. Then you get to ultimatum. But I still think

we have to have an open, direct, honest needs conversation. Does that sound fair? Yeah, 100%. I think that too, that she needs to say exactly first what she feels, how she feels, and then put the ball in his court. And maybe it's, I'm not living in this apartment for another 60 days. Yeah, we'd like you to come with us. Yes, I would love for you to be in our new place with us.

Yeah. And I know there's a financial, I mean, I know there's a lot of realities to this that are just messy, but have the direct needs conversation. And then the ultimatums come after that. Be clear. Clear as kind.

Clear as kind. Clear as kind. No secrets. Love you guys. Bye.