The Dr. John Delony Show - Drug Addiction, Fallout from Bipolar Disorder, & Communication in Marriage

Episode Date: January 15, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU! Show Notes for this Episode 4:38: My 22-year-old daughter is addicted to meth and homeless. How do I help her? 20:18: How do you let go of shame and regret when it cost you your husband and children because you were undiagnosed bipolar? 34:41: How do I listen to my wife without trying to solve her problems? 47:50: Lyrics of the Day: "The Heart of the Matter" - Don Henley tags: parenting, substance abuse, boundaries, money, bipolar disorder, marriage, guilt/shame, grief, communication, relationships These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk to a wonderful dad who's struggling with his 22-year-old daughter and her addiction problems and how far he should go to get her back. We also talk to a mom and a wife whose husband just filed for divorce. She was just diagnosed with bipolar. She's dealing with the stress and shame of breaking up her marriage. And we deal with a young husband who wants to learn how to listen to his wife better. Stay tuned. Dude, what is up?

Happy New Year and welcome to the Dr. John Deloney Show. This show is about you, your lives, your experiences, your challenges, your victories, the tragedies, all of it. Right? And I've walked alongside folks just like you for almost two decades, right? Whether your life is cruising and you're living a full, whole life, or your life is on the brink and it is about to fall off the edge, or you're sitting in the ashes of a burned out disaster. You're just sitting in pain and you don't know what to do next. I've been there. I've seen it. And I've committed my life to helping all of us, myself included, re-learn how to be people, right? How to live, how to

interact with each other, how to stop the anxious, depressive nonsense madness, and how to be okay with who we see in the mirror. So no matter who you are, this show is for you. It's for the one guy out in the lobby. It's so good to see somebody out there. It's for James, Kelly, Zach. It's for everybody. It's for myself. And I want to start today's show with a public service announcement.

Here we go. So we are about halfway through January, halfway through January, actually. We got to talk about fireworks. Here's the thing. They're cool. They're pretty. They make me feel good and patriotic and all the colors and rat-a-tat-tat-a-doo, all of it. Cool, I get it, right? I love me some fireworks. And on New Year's Eve, we all have this collective agreement that we all are going to stay up till midnight. Spoiler alert, my wife and I were in bed by like 1030 and we were like, man, this is so late. And my kids didn't even know what day it was. When they go to college, they're going to be super shocked that there is a New Year's Eve event. But for the rest of humanity,

we all stay up until midnight, shoot everything off and go, and then we go to bed. And we've all decided that since we're all staying up until midnight, we're going to blast these pretend bombs all over the neighborhoods and out in the woods and wherever it is that you live. And so cool. Shoot them off, go for it. But it's the middle of January.

Quit shooting fireworks. For real. Enough. You get your one day. So here's the thing. Put all of the fireworks you have left in my neighbor. You know, I'm talking to you. Put all of them back in a bag and go to the garage next to where you put your AR and your

powdered Gatorade and your deer corn and your bulk packages of Slim Jims that you buy by the pallet at Sam's because Costco's liberal propaganda, right? Grab one, snap into it, and save the rest of fireworks for July 4th. And here's the thing. For those of you who just have to blow something up, we have a half birthday for you. It's July 4th.

We just blow stuff up that night too. Wait. But for you. It's July 4th. We just blow stuff up that night too. Wait. But for real. We give you the one day a year, or two days a year. You get two. Stop shooting off fireworks, man. My kids have got to go to sleep. You just keep blowing it off.

And they're pretty. They are. And every night we're like, oh, look, more. And now you're blowing black cats off because that's all you've got left. And smoke bombs. Stop. Stop with the fireworks. And here's another quick tip.

Neighbor, while you're at it, get your melted pumpkin off your porch because Halloween's super over too. Cool? Are we all good? It's 2021. Let's go this way. Stop shooting off fireworks. Public service announcement's over. So whatever's going on in your life, I'm even spitting on my desk.

That's gross. It's Corona. So give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash show. Fill out the form, and it will go to Kelly, and we will check it out. Love to have you on the show. I do hope your new year is going

awesome. We're a few weeks in. I hope everything's rocking and rolling and that you are hanging in there. Not only hanging in there, you are doing the things that are going to keep you well, your neighbors well, your spouse, your friends, your girlfriend, your boyfriend, everybody around you well. Good for you. All right, let's go to the phones. Let's go to my main man, Gary, in Fort Worth, Texas. Gary, how are we doing, man? Good, Dr. Deloney, and thanks for taking my call. You bet. Thank you so much for calling in.

Happy New Year. So what's going on, brother? How can I help? Well, so I have a daughter that's 22 years old. She is homeless. She lives in her car. She's addicted to methamphetamine. She has two children that were taken from her about six or seven months ago.

I recently learned that she's been using drugs since she was 14. In 2016, her mother, my wife of 26 years, passed away from cancer. And for the past or for the last or for the next two years, I tried to I tried, you know, to do everything I could to help, you know, my daughter, including, you know, getting her into counseling, paying for her rent, her utilities. I bought her a car, paid her bills, you know, because I wanted her, you know, to get on her feet. You know, after two years, nothing worked. I felt like the poster child of the enabling parent.

So, you know, the last two years, you know, she's really just gone downhill. In the last couple of weeks, I received a phone call from her where she sounds like she is ready to accept responsibility. She obviously is struggling. She's talking about wanting to get into rehab. And the first thing that, you know, came to my mind was, what is the right amount of help? You know, what I don't want to do is get back in this enabling, you know, cycle where I am preventing or keeping her or giving her an excuse why not to, you know, move forward with rehabilitation. You know, so what's the right amount?

What's too much? You know, I've obviously struggled with, you know, setting proper boundaries, you proper boundaries in the past. And of course, telling her no is difficult for me. I think I'm a fixer by nature, but I can tell you that this is beyond my ability to help so dude i one as the father of a daughter i can't think of a more gnarly awful place to be than where you are and just want to acknowledge straight up that sucks that's hard and that's that's that is the depth of hell for a parent and I hate that for you. I also cannot put my head, I've sat with countless people in this situation. I can't put my head around somebody. I can't put my head around a situation where I would have to come home and my wife has passed away. And so, you're dealing

with trauma on top of trauma. And I want to start all this call by letting you know, you've mentioned a couple of times in this call about how you're not doing things right. And you've mentioned a couple of times in this call that you're kind of taking ownership for your daughter's choices and her decisions. And I want you to be graceful to Gary, okay? Yes. and y'all want to go get a therapist together and go spelunking, I wouldn't recommend that, but you can. At this point, I want everything in your life to be about moving forward. You've done the best you can with the tools you had because you love your daughter more than life itself. Right? Is that fair?

It's very true. Okay. So the rest of it is cinder blocks that you are carrying around every day, and all that does is weigh you down at work, that weighs you down in your relationships. And more importantly, it doesn't fully let you connect with your daughter. Okay. And so put that stuff down.

And then I want to commend you, man. Most parents don't ever make it to the point where you are, which is I've got somebody who's hurting. I'm just going to keep dumping money and resources and heart and soul and mind and all the stuff into a giant black hole. And you've said, I can't keep doing that. I'm causing more harm. I'm causing myself harm and I'm not doing the good that I want to be doing. What do I do next? So dude, high five to you, man. It's a hard place to be. So tell me about this phone call you got. She says, I'm ready. And something in her voice, for those of you listening, if you've ever dealt with somebody who struggles with methamphetamine, it is a, it's just evil in its purest form.

It takes everything from you. It takes your soul from you. It takes all of your ethics and morals and character. It takes everything you have from you. And loving somebody who's caught up in meth is almost like loving somebody with Alzheimer's. They're a shell of themselves and that you want so badly to believe that they're still there and they're not. They're a ghost. And so Gary, it matters a lot to me that you as her dad got a call and suddenly you feel that bell ringing for the first time in a long time. What was it about that call that reconnected you two?

So she said that she was stressed out. She said that she knew that she did it to herself. She said that she was trying to get into a shelter at the time, and this was a couple weeks ago, that she was saying that she had a flat tire, she didn't have any gas, she hadn't eaten, that she's tired. And she travels from hotel parking lot to hotel parking lot to get their Wi-Fi so she can communicate on the Internet or make phone calls. She said she didn't know how she got like this. She said she was disgusted with herself. And I'd never heard that from her before. It was always the

excuses and everybody else that is the problem. And the reason she was there, she was the victim. So this was good to hear that she was indicating that she was ready to take some responsibility. So when it comes to enabling, here's – my thoughts about enabling are all over the place, and they're usually specific to a particular individual situation. Not always. We can draw some big, broad brushes, right? But often it's very human-specific. It's just situ money, right? What you are going to be willing to invest in, what kind of life you're going to be willing to invest in.

And so, all that comes to, if I don't consider it enabling, if you decide I'm going to pay for rehab if that's where you're going to go. I would not be in favor of writing a meth amphetamine addict who's lost their kids, right? And that's when you start realizing, okay, this is over you. Some people won't stop coming to family events and some people will cuss you out via text message or send mean phone messages or whatever. But it's when you get into the darkness, right, when you let your kids go, when you're living in parking lots, right? That's when you know that you are – you're out, right? And so when somebody turns around and says, I can't do this. I'm at the bottom, and I need help.

And then they look to you. I'm not going to ever give that person a penny, a dime. I'm not going to write them a check. But if you have the financial capability and you can help with rehab and you can pay a rehab facility direct, I don't see that as entitlement. I would also say a person who is a current meth addict or even early, early stages recovery of any kind of addiction, they're not in a place to make deals, if that makes sense. And so if you start putting stipulations on this, they're not going to be able to hear it. They'll say, yeah, sure, great, because they want to get to the next place. They're going to feel hurt and abandoned and abused if they violate these agreements that you come up with. And they're in the throes of addiction. And then you take your funding away.

So I'd be clear and not do any negotiating. I would have a clear strategy on your part and say, here's what I'm willing to do. But it's going to have to be an inpatient thing. And I want you to know, just as a dad who loves his baby girl, detoxing and getting off meth is brutal. And I would expect some starts and stops and I would also expect there to be some great success on the back end. Living into that optimism. So what do you think is too far when it comes to enabling your daughter?

Well, I think what is too far is what I started doing. I think what the best intention was thinking that, you know, that I could, you know, just completely financially support her. And then she would, you know, do the right thing, which, you know, you know, clearly she didn't. You know, so I do. I've since remarried and I've had conversations with my wife about rehabilitation. And, you know, so we're certainly open to do whatever we need to do to be able to help my daughter. My struggle, as I said, was what is the right amount? What was too much? I mean, even when she called me when she was in the hotel parking lot,

my oldest daughter and I visited with her, and we had her a couple nights in a hotel. We brought her some food. I fixed her flat tire. I put gas in her car. And I gave her a food cart to a local restaurant so she could get something to eat. And see, those things to me are a dad who loves his daughter, right? And I think going into it with the heart understanding that that is not going to solve her problem, but you do get – that's as much for her as it is for you, right?

Because I don't know that I could go to bed knowing that my daughter is sleeping in a hotel parking lot, right? And I know it's cool to talk tough about boundaries and you just got to draw lines and all that. But I tell you what, man, if my daughter's sleeping in a hotel parking lot, I'm going to go get her, right? And that's hard when you're dealing with coke. That's hard when you're dealing with meth. That's hard when you're dealing with, you know, when you're just pilled out. Those things are hard, right? And so buying a food card that she can only use in one place,

they'll figure out ways to sell it, right? We all know that. But if that becomes a routine, at some point you've got to draw that line and they've got to make adult decisions. And it's hard, hard, hard. I'll tell you this. Go ahead. I was just going to say that after I did those things that day,

I walked away wondering if I made things worse, if I did too much, and was she going to delay? Sure. And I didn't even want her to delay a day. Right. Well, and that's where you can do some work on your end. You can go contact a local rehabilitation place place and you can get the information. You do not want to get information through your daughter, right? Because it's going to become at a very tilted angle

and you want to get that information from the place, get the cost, get all that, get with your insurance company. And then you and your other daughter go sit down and have a conversation and say, we want to go today. And we're willing to take you. I'm going to pay for it, or I'm going to help you pay for it. But we're going to go today. And that's the way to set that up. And if she chooses not to, that's when you say, then I'm going to try again in 30 days. And what I don't want anyone to ever do is give up on their kid. But there's a difference between supporting and

giving up, right? And you're going to have to get somebody to walk alongside you because, dude, brother, you're still carrying some of this around. Is that fair? It is. And I did have a conversation with a local rehab today. Good. They asked me to give my daughter their phone number and name to see if she would call them to do some screening. So I haven't heard back from her, so I don't know if she's done anything yet. My guess is she won't, right? My guess is that you're going to have to go pick her up or meet with her for a meal or meet with her and set up an arrangement where you're all going to meet and say you're going to take her. And again, I know that we've got to put this responsibility on addicts.

If you've worked alongside addicts for a long time, you'll understand their ability to think rationally is different than ours. Their brain has poison pulsing through it. And so to expect them, I'm just going to wait until the XYZ, that sometimes works and sometimes is an irrational response. They can't. And so showing what – at the root of addiction is a connection issue. They are using drugs to wallpaper over this lack of connection and this inability to hold somebody tight and to be held tightly. And so, all that to say is, Gary, your heart's in the right place. I wouldn't wait for her to call. I'd set that up. And some

places may not take her because of that. And I would go pick her up and say, today's going to be the day. And if she gets out of the car, then she gets out of the car. And then you're going to have to have a friend that you can go sit with and cry with. And then you can give it a shot in 30 days and let her know, I'll be back in 30 days. I'm your dad. I'm not going to give up on you. I'm not going to keep putting gas in your car. I'm not going to keep paying for hotels. I'm not going to keep giving you money. That is enabling. But when you're ready, I'll drive you and drop you off. And because we've been blessed financially, I will help pay for it. And that's a gift, Brother Gary. So thank you so much for your heart, man. All right, let's go to

Heather in Austin, Texas. Let's see. Heather, how we doing? I'm doing all right. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. So what's going on? I am in the middle of a divorce after 16 years with two kids. I woke up in July, and my husband and kids had left, And I was diagnosed bipolar after that. And I think the biggest issue I'm having is how to deal with the shame and regret that I have because I'm not getting the opportunity to fix what's been broken.

And so how do I sit and move forward when it's been something that's been my responsibility? I know that there are some people that say that it takes two in a marriage, but when there's a mental illness involved, too, there's a part of me that says, you know, this was all my responsibility. This was all my doing. I didn't know what to do. So what did you do to make him leave? Honestly, I was arguing with my preteen daughter quite a bit. Okay. And in mania, I had spoken with somebody else over the phone that I had known from my childhood.

So you argued with your daughter, and forget the mania part, okay? I want to disassociate here from the bipolar stuff. I just want to talk to you directly, okay? Absolutely. So take the bipolar glasses off, and I just want to hear, what are the things you did to break up a 16 year marriage? Okay. So you argued with your preteen daughter. Yes. All right. And that makes you one. And nobody does that by the way. So that's all on you. And then what's next? Did you do, I'm being sarcastic by the way. What next? The other thing is you, on the phone, talk to somebody.

I flirted with another man, yes. Okay, so you flirted with another man. Did you go meet him up in a hotel and hook up with him? No, I did not. I never even FaceTimed with him. Dude, I'm so old now. I'm not laughing at you. I realize there's all these new technological ways to cheat, they're all like new. I'm just a loser. Okay. So you argued and you flirted. What else did you do?

I planned to have this escape mode in my head of, well, it was back in middle school. It was a group of us. We all had this like 10-year plan that if none of us were happy, we'd all run away together type thing. Sweet. Yeah, and it started out as a joke, but it became the five-year plan

when he and I got on the phone. And so there was a lot of fantasy land involved in there. I wasn't doing my wifely job. I wasn't giving him the attention. He wasn't giving me the attention. And so therefore, I created it over the phone with somebody else. Fair. Okay. That's the best way I can describe that. Right. So you had a disconnected relationship and you begin to outsource that connection other places. Yes, that's correct. And so I want to put the bipolar aside for a second, okay? And the things that you've told me here, if you were manic often, that can be exhausting to live with. Is that fair?

It is exhausting to deal with and live with. I grew up with it. My mother was bipolar. Okay. And then when it comes to the low season, give me an example of what a low period would be like for you. I wouldn't be sleeping at night so I'd be sleeping in like I think I did my best sleeping from like 9 to 11 when my girls were in school um and then you know I would get up and that was most of my low season but I had been on medication for anxiety for 15 plus years and what would happen is every it seemed like every six months i would go through the cycle where i'd have um just the only emotion i could tap into was anger i like i didn't when my dad died i didn't cry when things happened i didn't cry there wasn't okay so okay or angry

i just listen to the picture you're painting me, okay? Your dad passes away. You grow up in a house with a bipolar mom. When did your dad die? How old were you? He died three years ago from cancer. It was from day to diagnosis was 31 days. Jeez Louise, yeah.

Yeah, it was absolutely heartbreaking. Right. So you grow up in a home that's a mess, that's chaos, right? And you're finding defense strategies and you are finding connection strategies wherever you can get them. this low-level burn, sometimes a high, loud fire alarm burn of anxiety for 15 years that tells me you've been in a semi-connected or unconnected marriage for 15 years. Doesn't mean you don't love this guy. Doesn't mean he's not great. He may be a great guy. That may mean that you're tough to live with and the strategies you learned growing up plugged into his strategies that he learned growing up and y'all just have had this anxious, connected, disconnected dance for 15 years. Yeah. gigantic cinder block of shame that you are at fault and more importantly now you've got something to point to and blame it on which is a mental health diagnosis i want you just to

to back up and own it that it takes it as cheesy as it sounds they're right it takes two to tango it does and at some point the disconnection got to your husband and he walked out the door and arguing and flirting and creating other checkpoints are not um that's that's not why you cash in on a marriage it It's just not. Okay? I didn't think so either, but I just have, there's so much embarrassment that comes with what I did because I truly did love my husband and my children. And then there comes the shame of knowing that there is a mental health diagnosis and I didn't take care of it before and I didn't know. I really truly thought it was just an anxiety diagnosis and I was seeing people and going to therapy. I went to outpatient since.

I'm on different medication. I'm in therapy twice a week and trying to do anything and everything I can to repair everything, but he's just, he's not willing in any way, shape, or form. If you are continuing to chase down what was, you're never going to get well. You're never going to find wholeness, okay? And so this is going to be another loss in a line of losses for you, and it's going to hurt. And it sounds like you haven't fully put the guard down and grieved it yet. Is that fair?

I've grieved quite a bit, but I... Crying is different than grieving. Yeah. I think there's still a part of me that hopes that there will be a fixable moment after 16 years and the, well, aren't I worth it? Isn't the family worth it type situation? Right. And when you start putting external worths on your internal wholeness, man, you're going to start chasing all sorts of different behaviors, different people, different actions, trying to plug that hole up. Okay? What you're doing right now, working on yourself, you've got to do it for one reason.

It's because Heather's worth being well. That's it. And a well, whole Heather who deals with her childhood trauma. And if you grew up in the house of someone who's truly bipolar, and I say this a lot on the show, bipolar is much, much rarer than it's diagnosed, okay? If you grew up in the home of somebody who was truly bipolar, then you grew up in a marriage that was challenging, right? You grew up with a model of a marriage that was challenging. It wouldn't surprise me if your dad had to figure out ways to check in and plug into other things that would connect him to wholeness. He was an addict. Okay, there you go. And I just had the caller before this, addiction is a connection issue, right? And so then you get an addict and a bipolar person in a room, and then they start a dance.

You start, you absorb that, right? You grow up with trauma, and you just do that dance all over again. And your husband participated in that dance for 16 years, okay? Here's all I'm telling you. I want you to exhale and just stop running. Okay. Just put your shoulders down and you're going to have to find somebody. If you're going to counseling twice a week, if you're seeing a therapist twice a week, that's a great place to start. But crying is different than grieving. Grieving is ownership. It is, with a period at the end of it. And then it is letting that part wash over you. And if you

are bipolar, if you are being medicated, if you under the care of a mental health professional, I recommend you do it with them because they're going to walk you through it. But I want you to, when do you go see your therapist next? This week? When I get off the phone with you. Oh, great. Awesome. So here's what I want you to do.

I want you to go and say, I am trying to fix my marriage still, and that's a noble, right thing to do. I'm proud of you for saying I'm not giving up, I'm not giving up until that court document's final, okay? But you can't change his mind. He left. And rightly or wrongly, you are, no, not rightly or wrongly. If it's because arguing preteen flirted and you started checking other places, in my head, that's not a reason to walk out on a marriage. My guess is there's probably more to it than that. And if I had him on the phone,

he'd probably have a whole other narrative. But what I'm telling you is he contributed fully to the picture that you're now staring at, okay? I want you to go to your counselor. I want you to tell her that I am ready to grieve. I've got to just acknowledge what is happening to me, and I need some help grieving, okay? I want you to go get David Kessler's book, Finding Meaning, and I want you to read that book. I want you to ask your therapist to read that book, and I want them to walk you through it. And if you have a good therapist who is interested in partnering with you in your mental health journey, they will be excited to get a new read

and to partner with you because you're taking ownership of your wellness. You're not outsourcing it to somebody. You're not just spending time blaming. I don't know that you're at the blame and shame part. I think you are still in the grieving part and you've got to just sit down and exhale and own part. I think you are still in the grieving part and you've got to just sit down and exhale and own this. When it comes to bipolar, now that you've got your diagnosis, they may be able

to give you some medication. They may be able to give you some strategies that you're going to have to work on now and for years, but you've got a lot of trauma healing to do here. And so I hope that you're a therapist as well and good and knows what they're doing. At the end of the day, I want to make sure you know that as cliche as it sounds, it takes two people to be in a relationship. And 14 years ago, your husband could have come to you and said, we are two years in. You are anxious all the time. I'm not able to make a safe space for you. And I don't know why. And I want us to get help. And I want to start healing now. And you grew up in the home of an addict and a bipolar mom. I want to be a part of a healing process. I want to learn some new strategies on how I can create a safe, welcoming, vulnerable home for you to be here

and whole and full. And he didn't do that. He left. He took your kids and he left. I want you to be well, and I want you to be whole. And here's the other thing. You haven't lost your kids. You got to reach out and you got to show back up to your kids. You don't make promises that you can't keep. You got to continue to take your medication and continue to do the work that you know you need to do so that one day you're not on medication anymore. You've created some boundaries in your life. So when you do have high seasons and low seasons, you've got governors on your life. And that may mean, look, I'm heading into a high season. I need to give my debit card to somebody else.

Or I'm heading into a low season. I'm going to fill in the blank, right? But don't make bipolar your identity. You're Heather from Austin, freaking Texas. but don't make bipolar your identity. You're Heather from Austin freaking Texas. You're a mom. You're a good woman. You grew up in a mess,

and you've got trauma that you've got to work through, and it's going to take a season, but don't give up on yourself. Don't just throw up your hands and say, well, I got bipolar. That's that. No, ma'am. You're worth more than that. So, Heather, I want you to have that conversation with your therapist tonight.

I'm fascinated to know what they say. I would love to have a client come in and say, I got this new book. I'm ready to get in the deep end here, and it's going to start with me grieving this loss. I want you to tell your husband, I hate that we're breaking this up. I feel like I'm still worth it. If you're going to leave, it breaks my heart. And let there be a period at the end of that sentence. Tell your daughters you're not ever going to give up on them.

You love them. You're always going to be connected to them. You're always going to be with them. And then you've got to put the work in every single day. So, Heather, thank you so much for that call. Let's take one more call. Let's go to Steven in Lynchburg, Virginia. Steven, what's up, my man?

How are we doing? Hey, John. I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing excellent. How can I help, man? Yeah, so I've been listening to you for a few months now, and I really appreciate your show. And I've been hearing a lot of times you give husbands the advice to not necessarily fix the problems, not necessarily try to provide

solutions for your wives when they're venting and talking about what's going on in their lives. Especially in my situation, my wife, she has a very stressful job. And so I'm just kind of trying to get an idea of what I can do more than just saying you know I'm sorry that sucks because like a lot of times I'll say it and she'll she'll look at me like I am there's more than I'm going to say and you know it's almost like it's patronizing to her which I don't want to come off sounding as patronizing that's right so you know I just want to kind of get your thoughts on it well dude Steven thank you so much I appreciate your heart and I'm grateful for guys like you who are trying to do this right, right? Just like we just talked about the last caller. Both sides of this partnership, this marriage have a responsibility to lean in and to do their part, carry their water, carry their partner's water as much as they possibly can. So good for you, brother. Give me an example of a classic Stephen and wife interaction that you want to get better at.

Give me an example. Sure. Yeah. So my wife, she works night shift at the hospital and so she'll come home. What does she do at the hospital she's a nurse um nursing the emergency department so i'm just gonna say it for everybody that sucks okay so go ahead that's a hard it's a hard job yeah yeah it is and and so she you know she'll she'll you know come home and and you know she's just exhausted obviously because i've been sleeping the whole night she hasn't um and so and so, you know, I'll be energized, I'll be ready to go. And she'll just say, you know, all these things that have happened and, and, you know, I'm somebody who's very, you know, solution oriented. And so I'll, you know,

I'll, I'll provide some advice, say, Hey, maybe you do this next time. Or maybe, you know, maybe this is what these people are thinking. And, and so maybe try to give them the benefit of the doubt and i know that's the wrong thing to say because then she she uh she um you know you know kind of gives me a look like oh you know i should i should be taking her side steven what do you do for a living what do you do for a living i work uh at a liberty university okay so you work at a university are you a professor are you just a uh student affairs you work in the institution, like administration? In technology. Okay.

So you probably know this, but I'm just saying this for my own benefit. If your wife is working the midnight shift as a nurse, her job is to keep humans alive, right? Exactly. To give them stuff in blood and needles and hearts and body parts and stuff. Right? Absolutely. Which I get queasy about. Yes.

So I will just tell you, just between us dudes, she's brilliant. Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And she suckered you into marrying her, right? Yes. So she doesered you into marrying her, right? Yes. So she does not need your advice.

Absolutely. And so we live in a cultural ethos. You've heard the thing, like the two fish swimming one way, the two young fish and the old fish swimming the other way. And the two young fish ask, like, the old fish says, hey, you know, how's the water? And the young fish are like, what's water? You know what I mean? The water that we breathe, the water that we swim in, we don't breathe it, we breathe air. The water that we swim in here is that guys have value for two things.

Their muscles, their actions, the things they are doing, and their knowledge. That is where guys get value from, right? As Dwight from The Office says, guys have strong arms, right? And they've also got knowledge. That's it. And so, you have to do the hard work of disassociating from the culture that you live in, which is that your value only comes from your arms and your head, right? You work tech all day. People come to you all day looking for solutions to problems, right? You should be my tech guy.

I don't know how to turn email on, brother. It's embarrassing, right? And so guys like me are coming to you all day. Hey, can you help fix this? Can you solve this? And usually you – I'm telling you what. You guys set up a scam you IT people got where you have figured out all you have to do is like,

oh my gosh, just turn it off and turn it back on. I still don't freaking know how any of that stuff works, but kudos to you guys for owning the world with just control, delete, and turning off and turning it back on. But here's the thing. You've got to walk away from that cultural nonsense that you are only worth your advice. What you are worth is your presence.

Okay. And if most guys do not, and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm over-gendering this and I'm over-stereotyping this. So go ahead and send me your cards and letters and I'll forward them on to James Childs here. But so many guys don't even know what that feels like to be in the presence of somebody because they've been trained since they were four that their only value is what they accomplish and what they can cram in their heads, what knowledge they can impart to other people. I watch my 10-year-old is always teaching people how to do things, and it's like, dude, I've been here a long time. I know how to do that. You know what I'm saying? And so what I want you to practice is a couple of things. One, when she starts talking, tell her I'm practicing presence.

And let her know that you're trying. That's a gift. Okay. Let her know that you're trying. That's a secret word. It's called vulnerability. Let her know, I'm going to try to be present here when you're talking. Truly listen to you. Can I give you a cheesy, cheesy thing that people are going to be rolling their eyes when they're going to listen to this? They're going to be walking down the street listening to this and they're going to roll their eyes. But I've tried it and it works and I do it regularly. You want to hear it? I learned this from a very ethereal therapist.

She was brilliant and she taught me this. When you're meeting with a client, was what she was talking about, and you keep finding yourself phasing out, right? You find yourself like getting distracted or you keep having to lean back in to pay closer attention. She said, I want you to pretend there is a ray of light between your heart and their heart. Just connect to them that way. And so it sounds cheesy and oh my gosh, I'm rolling my own eyes saying it, but Kelly's in there just going, oh, geez Louise, no one's getting into this cold black heart of mine. But I want you to sit down and I want you just to pretend there is a light that is coming from your heart into hers. Okay.

And then I want you to look in their eyes and just listen. I just had a hard, tearful conversation yesterday in my home. Okay. And man, it's so frustrating because I thought I could solve those problems, but my wife wasn't coming to me for that. She was coming something to me for something that's still, still foreign to me. And that was just me. Does that make sense? Yep. Okay. There is a power in the pause. I learned that when I worked at a law school. There's a power in the pause. Just letting that weight of two people in a room looking at each other just be. And it's something you have to practice. Okay. And then I'll

tell you what I do in my house, Steven, and it's worked wonders. After we have that pause, after she comes home and says hey last night was super ridiculous the doctor gave all these crazy orders they've upped our patient load to this and this and this and i've got to work overtime tomorrow night and then your first thought is what it is you just need to tell them that they just need to right have you ever thought about talking to that doctor and just getting coffee with them until Right? So that's where your head's going. Is that right? Absolutely. Right.

Yes. And so let her speak. When she starts talking, say, hey, I'm going to practice being present with you. I just want to listen deeply here. And she'll probably go, what happened to my husband? And Michelle's talk. And then when she gets done, I want there to be a space. And then I want you to ask this magic question.

Are you asking me for my thoughts or my input here, or can I just be here and listen? And let her tell you, I want you to tell me what you think I should do next. Be invited into the advice part of that relationship. Is that, you get what I'm saying? Absolutely. I sure do. And so when I say that, does that sound nuts? No, not at all. Not at all. I suppose I, you know, whenever, when I've said, you know, the, the, you know, you kind of, your standard phrase seems to be like, you know, man, I'm sorry. You know, that really sucks. And I'll, I'll say that. And then she'll kind of look at me waiting for more. And so I like the idea of, of saying, you know, I'm just

going to sit here and listen. And then if you want my advice, I'll be more than happy to give it. If not, then I'll just shut up and stop talking. Now, don't do that. What you just did was super dude passive aggressive. If you want my advice, you just have to ask for it, bro. Like, if you want to, like, have everything in your life, great. I've got it.

But if you want to be an idiot, don't do that. Okay? Tell her. ask her, are you asking me for my advice in this situation or do you just want to be heard? Okay. And preface all of this with a conversation tonight. Okay. This is your homework assignment, brother. I want you to sit down tonight and say, 2021, I want to become a better listener. And so I'm going to have to practice. And so when you come home from work, I'm going to practice not giving you advice unless you specifically ask me for it. And she will probably hug you and kiss you harder than you've ever been kissed in your whole life. But I want

you to tell her, I think you're brilliant. And I think you are a gift to the people that you get to serve and help every night. And probably the last thing on earth you need is more advice from an IT dude. If she comes to you with a laptop problem, jump in, brother. Both feet, start control, all deleting the crap out of everything, right? Like turn it off and turn it on and turn it back off and turn on. Do all those things that you, you guys, it's ridiculous what scam y'all got going, but keep doing all that. But start tonight and say what I just said. I'm going to say it one more time for everybody listening. Honey, it's 2021. I want to become a better listener this year.

I feel like I'm always trying to give you advice and I don't really hear you. So from now on, I'm going to do my best to be present and listen to you. And if you want my advice on something, I want you to ask me for it. I want you to invite me into it. I want you to invite me into, if you want my, like my two cents. And I'm telling you right now, Stephen, the first time this happens, you are going to have to be biting your lip. You're going to take a sock and shove it in your mouth because you're just going to be like, dude, just tell the doctor to stop, right? Whatever the thing is, you're going to have to really fight to not do this. But here's what's going to happen.

You're going to keep your mouth shut and it's going to be so weird. You're going to have to really fight to not do this. But here's what's going to happen. You're going to keep your mouth shut and it's going to be so weird. You're going to be sweating and all weird and looking at her through the top of your eyes. And it's going to be awkward and weird. And she's going to think you've lost your mind. You already work at Liberty. So let's be honest, but she's going to think you've really lost your mind. And then there's going to be a, just a pause. And then you're going to say these magic words. Can we just hug? And then you're going to hug. And then nothing. And then nothing. Then the next time she's going to come home, she's going to say, you know what happened at work today? And you're going to say, I'm going to practice being present. You're going to look at her and she's going to

start talking and you're just going to look at her and you're going to pretend that your hearts are connected. I know it sounds cheesy. Everybody's go with me on it. You're going to pretend your hearts are connected. And then when it's over, you're going to hug. And then one out of five times, she's going to say, what do you think I should tell that guy? And then you're going to be like, yes, this is my moment. Just control, I'll delete or whatever it is you're going to say, Stephen, right? But then you get the hint. You get the ideas.

Sometimes just saying that sucks isn't helpful. Sometimes just staring off into space is super not helpful, but it all starts with that original conversation. So Steven, again, I love your heart, man. I love that you're trying to get this right and connect with people. Men and women, you're not worth what's in your head. You're not worth strong arms. Although both of those things help sometimes. There are times when my wife says, I just can't lift that dog food bag. John, will you pick it up? And I'll say, yeah, that's right. And I'll pick up the dog food bag.

And I will literally feel good about it. That's embarrassing, but I will. I'll be like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And then that's kind of my utility for the day. Other than this awesome, hard to grasp, hard to measure, our culture gives two craps about it. And that's this thing that is called presence. I just am here. I'm with you. I'm listening. I'm looking at you. I want you to know that you're known and that you have value just because. And I hope that by me doing this, you're reciprocating that. And we're here together. And now the tree is getting real deep roots in that

soil. And it's a beautiful, awesome, messy, messy thing. So, all right, as we wrap up today's show, this is, I'm just going, I'm going all in today. The greatest song of all time. No question. Here it is. It's from the 1989 End of Innocence record. He said, I don't need the Eagles, you bunch of birds. I'm going solo, right? Vanilla Ice talked about going solo. So did the OG solo. He's not the OG. I'm just, now I've kind of lost it here.

Don Henley in his classic, The Heart of the Matter. And it goes like this. I got the call today. I didn't want to hear, but I knew that it would come. An old friend of ours was talking on the phone. She said, you found someone. And I thought of all the bad luck and the struggles we went through and how I lost me and you lost you. What are these voices outside love's open door?

Make us throw off our contentment and beg for something more. There are times, these times are so uncertain. There's a yearning undefined and people filled with rage. We all need a little tenderness. How can love survive in such a graceless age? The trust and self-assurance that lead to happiness, they're the very things we kill, I guess. Pride and competition cannot fill these empty arms.

I've been trying to get down to the heart of the matter, but my will gets weak and my thoughts seem to scatter. But I think it's about forgiveness. Even if you don't love me anymore. Forgiveness. Even if you don't love me anymore. This is the Dr. John Deloney Show. you