The Dr. John Delony Show - Family Boundaries, Hard Diagnoses, & Couples Who Don't Fight

Episode Date: April 14, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode   My fiancée has two mentally disabled brothers and he thinks we may be caring for one or both in the future. How do we navigate this? My mother-in-law took a credit card out in my wife’s name before we were married. I want to be paid back but her dad doesn’t know. Should we open this can of worms? Email: How do you feel when you hear couples say they never fight? Is that healthy? My 15-year-old is facing a schizophrenic diagnosis. She wants to tell teachers, friends and family. We are more hesitant. What do we do? Lyrics of the Day: "Ghost" - Indigo Girls   As heard on this episode: BetterHelp   tags: marriage, relationships, family, goals/life planning, boundaries, money   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk about boundaries in marriage from in-laws to brothers, and we talk with a mom whose teen daughter is facing a mental illness diagnosis and what she can do next. Stay tuned. Hey, what's up, what's up? This is the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm John.

I think so highly of myself, I named a show after myself. I didn't actually name the show, but hey, I'm glad you're here. Thanks for hanging out. We're going to talk about relationships and your life and your mental health. Pretty much anything that's going on in the world around you. It's a show for you, about you, by you. Give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291.

Two orders of business before we get rolling today. The first one is James. I got a couple of DMs, they call them. That's what the kids say. Somebody slid into my DMs. I don't even know if that, I probably just said something bad. Don't cancel me. But they wanted to know where this music is like, hey, what song is this?

I've just heard it before. And I was thinking, I don't think you've heard it. Isn't it like a- The song in the intro? Yeah, you built that, right? No, I didn't build it. It's like a licensed music library that we have. So it's not really like commercial music you can find on Spotify necessarily.

But it was two songs and you stitched them together no no i edited a little bit to make it a quicker intro but it's not i didn't like do anything besides that okay but i'm glad that you think so highly of me i thought you just were at home just had your you know your headphones on and you were just getting after it nope nope just uh bought it off the internet it's 25.95 uh okay for both of you today at lunch i was sitting with will and some other folks and i was like hey guys i gotta run go potty real quick because i got little kids and they looked at me and i was like, hey, do you all ever do that? Say, I got to go TT? First of all, TT, no. No, I know.

That's a foul. Before the show, you told me, hey, I'll be right in there. I got to go pee-pee, and I about threw up in my mouth. Well, it wasn't because of that. I'm just used to it. I got a little kid. You too, Kelly? No, because I'm self-respecting adult, I don't say TT.

But I do, you know, I still ask my 15-year-old if he has to go potty. And he looks at me and goes, Mom. So it is part of the vernacular, but don't use that. Moratorium. I'll just say, I'll stick with potty. I'll just say bathroom. How about that? Yeah, bathroom. I'm going to tell my little say, I'll stick with potty. I'll just say bathroom. How about that? Yeah, bathroom.

I'm going to tell my little daughter, hey, go to the bathroom. I don't know why it makes me think of old days at the Astrodome, doing the old Astros games back then. I don't know. It just sounds weird. All right, so we're glad you're here. Let's go to Rachel on the phones where she's at. Greensboro, North Carolina.

Rachel, what's going on? How can I help? Hi, Dr. Delaney. How are you? I am just... I'm doing great. I'm doing good. Great. So, my fiancé and I are planning our wedding for September. And among the conversations that we were having was that he anticipates being a caregiver for two of his brothers

with mental disabilities. And so I just wanted some advice on how to navigate that. I hear in your voice that you were not expecting that and you were not looking forward to this. I kind of did, but as the wedding starts approaching, it just becomes more of a reality, and it kind of just solidifies. I know that to a certain extent. What does it solidify? Is this a deal-breaker for you? No, no, absolutely not.

It's just essentially trying to figure out how much of a mental the best way to deal with all of it without sending people in the process, without stepping on anybody's toes in the to be the right thing. Those aren't all mutually exclusive. And having a good marriage is hard. It's gritty and annoying and frustrating and lots of tears, and then you get up and you do it again. And as the great therapist Terrence Real says, one person's always jumping off the deep end, and it's the other person's job to not jump in after them, right? Somebody's got to stay stable.

That's part of it. There's something deeper here. What do you mean you don't want to step on people's toes and make people frustrated? What do you mean by that? Well, obviously, like, the mental disabilities for both of your brothers have been going on for a long time. And they are both very functional. They're able to hold jobs to a certain extent. But also, there's also the part where I know that he anticipates taking care of them emotionally and possibly financially in the future.

But it's also the part where he doesn't want to... He knows it's going to be his responsibility, but he doesn't want to, I guess, overstep his boundaries as far as with his parents. Okay. But he feels like he knows it because he was sharing with me that early on, I guess something happened when he was still very young in his teenage years where he realized that, oh, this is going to be on me in the future. Does he have any brothers and sisters? I'm sorry? Does he have any brothers or sisters? Yes, he has one more brother. And that dude's MIA, not going to help?

Yeah, he will. We just don't know how the situation is going to be. Is your husband, is he being a martyr? He's the oldest. Maybe. I mean, is it like, I'm going to have to do all this stuff, and I'm going to, is it that too? No, no. I think that he just feels the responsibility being the older.

Okay. That he's going to need to step up and take care of. Okay. So this is a potential issue way down the road. Mm-hmm. And it sounds like there's a lot of what-ifs, a lot of future what-ifs that we're allowing to poison our right nows. Okay. And so all of this is solved with a really straightforward, not even hard, but a straightforward, hey, we're all sitting down having a conversation with his parents, with his brother and him. And my brother and I have done this.

My sister and I have done this. My dad and my mom have had this conversation. Now, we don't have special needs kids in the house, but we do have various situations in our family. Here's how this is going to happen if I pass away. Here's how this is going to, and we just walked through that together. And so, if I'm your brother, I mean, I'm sorry, if I'm your fiance, I just made that weird. If I'm your fiance, I would call my parents and say, hey, I want to talk through what's the plan. I need to know if there is a special needs trust, which should have been set up for those boys already. What is y'all's plan?

Is y'all age? Are they going to continue to live? Just get it all out in the open. There's nothing to be weirded about here. There's nothing to be ashamed of about here. There's nothing to be ashamed of about here. This is just something that you've got to deal with head on. And then once you know and begin to make a plan, then you begin to make a plan. A plan is about as useful as when the actual situation shows up, right?

As Mike Tyson says, everyone's got a plan until you get hit in the mouth, and then things change. So you have a plan and then you hold it really loosely. You'd be graceful with one another. You, on the other hand, need to ask yourself, are you going to be married to this guy with potentially two of his brothers moving into your home? I hear something in your voice that says that you're not comfortable with this. You feel weird about this. You're stressed about this. And you need to know now going in, the kind of guy you're marrying is a guy that says, I'm going to take care of my family. And I agree with that. And I anticipated that.

And I'm completely can handle it. But then when there is everybody else's input and what we, you know, how we decide to help and things like that is when things get more complicated. Yeah, and they don't get a vote. It doesn't matter what they say, right? Now, if they're on a part of the special needs trust, if they have holds over the money, if they're the executor of the will, then yeah, they're going to have a choice. I don't think there is no such a thing to begin with. Yeah, you need to get one of those. I don't think there's enough planning going on. They need to get one of those yesterday.

Yesterday they need to get one of those. That is an ASAP, do not pass, go get that thing done. Okay? You want to make sure your kids are taken care of especially with special needs after you're gone um i cannot emphasize how important it is to have a will have a will have a will have a will if you've got children with special needs have a special needs trust do it yesterday um these are not hard conversations and I don't mean to make, make light of this,

Rachel. These are just direct. Let's just have this thing and let's all get on the same page here. Um, I would be happy to marry somebody who's cares about his family and is thinking down the road. What y'all both need to do is don't cash out your present day happiness, your present day excitement of about something that may or may not happen years down the road.

Okay? Life is too short. Things are too bananas. You need to enjoy what you have today. And you need to be excited about the fact that you're about to get married. If for some reason you say, I'm out of this thing. I just don't want to have a future where I've got two other grown men living in my house. Man, have the dignity to let him know now and then walk away with your head held high, if that's what you choose.

Don't go into this marriage knowing where your fiancé's heart is, knowing the situation of his brothers, and then slowly drag the whole machine underwater and drown everybody in the process. There are going to be a lot of people with a lot of opinions on this. But if your brother's, I mean, if your fiance is the one ponying up the money, ponying up the house, taking care of them, nobody else gets a vote. Zero. None. Just y'all two. Y'all get to craft this, what this looks like. Y'all two get to decide who gets a vote.

So here's what I want you to do as a premarital exercise. I want you guys to get a real box, like a shoe box, a little fancy box. I don't care what it is. A real thing. Put it on your kitchen table. And I want you to write out four or five people on planet Earth who get a vote into your marriage. That could be another couple that you all know. That could be a marriage counselor. That could be close friends that you each have. That could be whoever you want, and put it in there.

And then I want you to close that box and let it sit for a day. Then I want you all to circle back, and I want you to open it up, each of you together, and explain to the other person why you're doing what you're doing. Why are you giving this person a say into our marriage, into our relationship? What are we talking about here? Why are we doing this? And then here's the thing. Once y'all agree on who goes in that box, nobody else gets a vote. His mom can call you and say, I just thought that he would have married somebody who, I don't, you don't get a vote, right? You're going to be respectful, of course, but you don't get any input. Well, we just expected at Christmas, y'all were going to, well, I appreciate that so much,

but we're not going to do that. We're going to Arkansas. We're going to the moon. We're going to wherever, right? Y'all get to decide that as a couple, but have those conversations up front. Have them right now. And the names in that box will evolve and shift and change over time, but it's the intentionality exercise of who do we letting speak into this house? It's not in-laws. It's not my this house it's not in-laws it's not my parents it's not the vet it's not the fill fill in the blank right whoever else it's going to be right um and then just sit down with his parents and have a honest direct straightforward conversation i'm about to get married i'm about to start creating my own legacy my own household

and i have the expectation i'm gonna be taking care of my two brothers down the road. What is y'all's plan? What does y'all's will look like? What is the plan moving forward for when we're going to transition this? And then have that direct conversation. Put everybody on notice that this is how this is going to be, and then go from there. I appreciate that call, Rachel. I know that sounds complex and hard and scary, especially when you're not even married yet.

But there's not a way to go into that other than directly and not being an idiot and a jerk. And I know y'all wouldn't do that, but going there with dignity and respect and a on the table, what are we going to do about my brothers? All right. Thanks so much for the call. Let's go to Kyle in Fort Smith, Arkansas. What's up, Kyle?

How we doing? Doing good, Dr. John. When my wife turned 18, her mother opened up credit cards in my wife's name without her knowing. How much? About $15,000. She didn't pay a penny on it, has she? No. Oh, geez.

And so we found out shortly before we got married, which has been about four years ago now. Okay. All because I answered a phone call that my wife didn't know, so I answered it. It turned out she was behind on the payments, so we figured it all out. Wow. And her dad doesn't know. The reason is she couldn't get a credit card because they'd had a credit card bankruptcy prior years. So she stole from her child exactly and this she stole

from her adult child which makes us a whole different ballgame right exactly and i want paid back okay and so we uh we've been working on it trying to think of different ways to do it and uh you know being that her dad doesn't know there i guess he didn't take the bankruptcy very well because the mother has always handled money so my wife's very concerned that him finding out about this will be you know more than he can handle and with with some mental issues and so we're so here's the deal kyle i'm'm going to save your heart here, okay? Let's hear it. You're not getting a penny back.

Just go ahead and eat it. It's not going to happen. The choices you guys have to make are filing a dispute with the credit bureau saying that these were stolen. These charges are fraudulent. I never had. Have you all done that? No. No, it's been too many years.

I would dispute it and at least have a letter in writing. The second thing you all need to decide is are you going to call the police on your mother-in-law and say she robbed me? Does your wife need to go get another social security number? Because if it happened once, it could happen again. Once she's put fraudulent stuff, put a police report out there that somebody stole my thing and took out credit cards. Somebody told my social security numbers, took out credit cards. Then the next thing is I need to get a new social security number so that mom can't steal from me anymore. Then y'all got to go move on about your day. The chances of you getting

this back are zero. The chances of y'all end up going to war with your in-laws is a hundred percent and i just i don't know the value and the benefit of that okay okay what do you think about that well you see hey you're like me and i guarantee you've already spent that money. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's been there eating at me. You know, I've been paying. You know, my wife who was paying for it originally, she said, well, I'm just going to keep my job, pay it well. We had a little boy. He's home.

So she's home with him now. And that's where I want her to be. That's why I love that. And so now I'm eating that $420 a month. And we haven't even been hardly paying anything down on it. We, you know, reconsolidated it and made it to where we can, you know, manage it a little more. Oh, no, you consolidated it with other loans? Yeah, well, with all because of the three loans together, and we just consolidated those three, $15,000.

That may make it more complicated. Well, I bought a lot of money, and I think the man I know, her dad would not, I don't see anything ending bad. I think he's going to be mad about it, yeah. But I think he'd find a way to come up with the money. They have assets to sell. They're both retired. Okay. So who's telling you not to call them?

My wife. She is scared to death. She cries about it. And, you know, 2020 was hard for everybody. And so we got a little bit behind. So guess what? I quit paying first, those credit cards. Hey, here's the thing though.

It's, in your heart, it's an existential deal. But for the banks, they don't care. You got to keep paying that bill. Right. And we got caught back up and everything. But I did pretty well, sold a project. Her mother knew that we sold a project. Well, the credit cards had called her mother in that time because they keep all the phone numbers.

And so they called her. Well, then she called us. Why aren't you paying on the credit cards? Well, when she found out we started paying on her that we sold a big project, made some good money, she had told my wife, when are you going to pay off the debt? And I just, I've lost my mind over that. That's what's the reason for this call right now. Hey, that's fair.

I'd be upset and fired up too. But what you're doing is you are allowing an input, but you're stuck with the output, right? Right. So cut your mother-in-law off. You're done. You don't get a vote in my life. I'm not. You're a thief, and now you're dishonest.

And you stole from your child, and we're done with that. If someone stole from their 19-year-old or 18-year-old, and it was a moment of weakness, things got bananas around the house, we were going to lose something, and they circled back three or four or five years later and said, I screwed up in a major way, I'm embarrassed, and I'm ashamed, and I'm going to make it right. That's one thing. But then when someone's calling saying, hey, you guys need to get these creditors off my back. I mean, no, that's your true colors.

That's who you are. You know what? God be with you. Go have fun with your life. You're not having any influence in my life. You're not going to see my kid. You're not going to poison my wife anymore. We're going to create our own legacy,

and we're going to move on from somebody who's not a thief and somebody who's not dishonest. That's it. And I know that that's hard because your wife's not going to be on board with that. Is that right? That's right. Okay. Now, have you sat down with your wife and said, I need to be vulnerable here, and there's 100% chance you've not done this. I'm setting you up, okay? So just know we're on the same team here. I'm being vulnerable here. I committed my life to loving you. I committed my life to protecting you. I committed my life to loving you. I committed my life to protecting you.

I committed my life to being vulnerable with you. And your mom stole from her child. Your mom has continued to beat us up over her debt that we're having to pay off. In a season, we don't have the money to be paying it off. And you have a dream of staying home with our son. I've got a dream of giving the woman of my life whatever she wants, however I can love and support her. And every time your mom calls,

I feel like she's hurting our family again and again and again. And I'm asking for us to take a season off from having your mom in our life. And letting your wife truly hear your heart on this deal, because my guess is it only comes up when you get one of these calls, when you write that $400 check, and it comes out as an explosion, which then comes out as you versus her mom, and nobody wins in that exchange. Exactly.

If it comes out you versus her mom, she has to defend her mom just because. She's got to defend you just because. The person who loses there is your wife. Mom, she has to defend her mom just because. She's got to defend you just because. And the person who loses there is your wife. If you come at her as not me versus mom, but me plus you, that's a whole different equation. Right. But, I mean, what about her dad in the end?

Should I burn the whole place down and let everybody know there's a fault in the wiring just by telling them? If you want to lose your marriage over it, go ahead. You think so? I don't want to do that. Your wife has said, please don't do that. Right. And do you want to be right or do you want to be in love and married? I want to be in love and married. Okay.

Then, man, this is a painful, painful, hard $15,000 pill to swallow. It sucks. I hate it. Well, I can deal with it. I hate it. Yeah, but it is. Sucks. Hate it. Well, I can deal with it. I hate it. Yeah, but it is. It happened. And then, yeah,

let's, man, let's work triple and quadruple and get this thing knocked out. It may be that your wife's dream of staying at home is going to have to be put on hold

for six to nine months so she can crank that out. Yeah. And that you can go home and hold that baby while she does Uber Eats or something like that and cranks that thing out

and pays that sucker off. Yeah, absolutely. And then everybody can be back on the same page. But here's the thing. All of this conversation starts from two places. Number one,

we're drawing a boundary. No more mom. No more mother-in-law in our life for a season, at least. Number two, this is not us versus them. This is me plus you. This is me connecting with my wife, with someone I love and I want to be engaged with here. And it's not your

mother anymore. It's just this lady that keeps hurting our family. And I'm asking that she not be around our kid. I don't want him getting the stuff. I'm asking that she not be around us right now. This is hard. And I want to focus on you guys, not the other way around. Listen, if I'm you, I'm in the exact same place, Kyle. I want that money back. I'd want to call everybody. I'd go knock on and talk to my father-in-law face to face. Hey, listen here, man. I'd do it. I'd want to do it. But if my wife said, hey, please don't, then I'm going to honor that because she knows more about that situation than I do.

And then you got to just swallow it and move on with your day. Life's too short, man. And then I would strongly, strongly recommend that your wife get a new social security number. Your mom is not somebody to be trusted with that kind of information. Okay?

All right, so I got this email from Jenny. Jenny wrote in. She says, How do you feel when couples say they never fight? Is that healthy? Hmm. So a couple of things here when it comes to mine. One, if you define fighting as yelling, slamming stuff, throwing, no.

I think that's all ridiculous, dumb behavior. It's not productive at all. And so if somebody says we don't fight, meaning we don't yell and scream and throw crap, then yeah, I believe that because I don't do that in my house. But if they're defining fighting as disagreements, as anger and frustration, man, me and my wife don't yell or slam or throw things, but I can tell you about me. I won't tell you about my wife. I weaponize silence, right? I am the master at withdrawing. And usually it's so I don't say something stupid, so I don't do something dumb. I want to control, but I end up controlling by withdrawing. And here's the thing, it's fighting. It leaves bruises on somebody's soul. It leaves bruises on somebody's heart and

mind. It doesn't leave bruises on their body, right? It will wreck somebody's heart. It doesn't wreck the furniture, right? So I think it comes down to how you're going to define fighting. I don't yell. I hate yelling. It's actually traumatic. It's a trauma for kids especially, and it solves nothing. Unless somebody's walking into the street and they're about to be hit by a car, yelling is dumb.

Don't do it. But that doesn't mean that me and my wife don't fight. We disagree often passionately, but we respect each other. And we've had to work hard on fighting fair, right? Hard on fighting fair. Fighting not to fight, but to get towards a resolution that improves everybody's lives. So here's the way I look at fighting. Fighting is often a result of a clogged pressure valve, right?

If you're not talking, if you're not communicating, if you don't have open lines of communication back and forth, if you're not able to say, dude, I had a super weird dream last night, or I slept like crap last night, or I miss you, or last night I came in for a kiss and you turned your head and I acted weird and then I got weird and you got weird and then I just left. If you don't have those little conversations over time, then that pressure valve builds up and builds up, right? So the first and most important thing is have regular conversations. What are you reading? What are you watching?

Shows you like, shows you don't like. What are your disagreements on this? When are we going to buy this house? What kind of dreams do we want to have here? How much is too much time on the internet? Have these little things. Have a weekly calendar meeting. Have a monthly or bi-monthly budget meeting, right?

Do these things regularly. And then when the fight happens, when the mother-in-law calls, when the father-in-law does a thing, when those things show up, there's not all this pressure built up. So it just explodes, right? Then you can just have a regular old disagreement a passionate one if that an argument you can get after it yeah just yelling and screaming yeah so how do i feel when couples say they never fight either living in a fantasy world right and they are building a pressure valve that when it goes it's's going to be a volcano, right?

Or somebody's super dishonest. Yeah, everything's great. Everything's great. And those are the people that just disappear one weekend, right? Their husband goes out of town and they get home and everything's gone, right? Or they're defining fighting differently, meaning, yeah, we don't yell and scream because that's stupid and doesn't produce anything. We do have passionate disagreements. We do get frustrated. We do take breaks. I'm going

to go eat by myself tonight. I'm going to go watch a movie by myself. I'm going to sleep in the guest room tonight. I'm just smoldering right now. And then we will circle back and loop back. That happens. I don't believe that couples don't have that with some regularity. So all I have to say is, however you define fighting is, is the key to answering that question. But no, it is not healthy to have somebody with which you never disagree with, who doesn't challenge you, who doesn't push you, who doesn't say, what about this? Let's try that. You need that person in your life to continue to lean on you and push you towards getting

better, right? Hey, what's up? I want to take a quick break to talk about the most important question I'm asked almost every day. How do I find a counselor? If you can't find a counselor in your area, or you can't afford one, I've got a solution for you. I've partnered with BetterHelp for customized online therapy, video chat, text chat, phone counseling. It's a licensed therapist whenever and wherever you need them. Go to betterhelp.com slash Deloney for 10% off your first month. It's cheaper and it's available all the time. This is for you, your family, and for everyone else that's coming your way. Take care of your mental health. Go to betterhelp.com slash Deloney today. All right, so let's go. Let's take one more call.

Let's go to Ruth in Chicago, Illinois. What is up, Ruth? Hi. Well, we're trying to figure something out, and I've been binging your podcast, and it seemed like a better idea than Google. Yes. Listen, you're not going to get as good information, but we'll have more fun. How about that? Works for me. All right. So what's up? My eldest, my daughter is 15 and she is facing a diagnosis of schizophrenia. Okay. Okay. Let's stop right there. That's a lot, right? Yep. And by the time a family gets to this point means you guys have endured a hard 15 years. Is that right?

Probably more like seven or eight or nine years. In her case, no. Okay. Her symptoms are pretty new. Okay, so tell me about it. At least anything that has been life-changing. And so there's a lot to figure out. So anyway, there's a lot to figure out. And so anyway, there's a lot to figure out,

but the question that I have for you is that one of the things that we're wrestling with the most is that she has expressed to me more than once that she would like to share this diagnosis with her friends, with her teachers, with our extended family. And that brings up a lot of fears for myself and my husband, her father. Okay. And we were wondering what advice you would give us. And, you know, if it was your daughter, what advice would you give her about that part of the decision? Okay.

First thing, I love your heart. Awesome question. Thank you for being bold and brave and asking this question. And we live in a world where that level of bravery that you just asked, we can't do anymore because one group's going to say you're nuts. One group's going to say you're discriminatory. I appreciate your heart there. So when you say facing a diagnosis of, in a relatively out of nowhere, this thing just showed up. What is showing up?

About four months ago, she came to me very upset in the early morning and told me that she was having, she was seeing people. She's having visual hallucinations of people every day. And have they done neurological exams? There's no brain lesions or anything? Correct. We've pursued a lot of different tests to try to rule out all of the possible physical explanations um there are a couple outliers that we are still trying to get approved by the insurance um but they are outliers you know we'd have to get like a full PET scan she's had all the obvious ones she's had all the blood work for parasites and she's had the MRI and she's had, you know, all of those things checked. Is she having, is she going to war with these people that she's seeing?

Is it an uncomfortable thing or is it just a recognition that there are people there that I know intellectually are not there? They are not threatening. They are unsettling because she knows they're not real. Okay. Okay. And so what has, when you say they're facing, so schizophrenia, obviously, for those who don't know, you often whittle it down. It's a process of elimination until you land on a place, right? Exactly. We're running out of landing gear. Okay. What is the benefit of this diagnosis? Because this is a relatively permanent diagnosis. I'm not entirely sure. She's just completed another round of neuropsychological global evaluations, and we're waiting on those but it looks like you know

something in the family of schizophrenia is pretty much our only option okay and regardless of the exact name how is how is she doing the question is still the same you know what does she do with this well here's here's why i'm getting it here's what i'm getting at what actually is happening um if this is yeah if this is has to do with like a neurological issue if this has to do with um like surfacing traumas if this has to do with several things several things that are not schizophrenia right that is not confirmed um that you have this diagnosis, then I would recommend telling people, I'm really struggling. I'm having challenges.

I am seeing things. Those kind of things don't bother me. Here's why. Maybe I rephrase the question. Maybe take the label of schizophrenia off the table. Okay. How do I answer the question from her? I want to tell my friends that I see people who aren't there. Do I tell her that's okay,

that that's safe? Or do I tell her that's a bad idea? So here's the balance I want you to strike. Number one, if this is schizophrenia, this will be with her for the rest of her life. And this will be something that she navigates and negotiates. And I don't want her for a second going to war with her own body, going to war with her own mind. Right? I don't want her hiding things. I don't want her trying to put parts of her heart and her mind in a compartment. The more that she can own who she is, own her challenges.

The biggest challenge with someone with schizophrenia is keeping them on a treatment plan. And if you can keep people on a treatment plan, keep them taking their meds and keep them practicing hygiene and connection with other people, then there is some successful outcomes, right? It's when people start, when they stop being, stop, stop being a part of their treatment plans. And that comes from compartmentalization, that comes from hiding, that comes from withdrawal, and suddenly people are out. And so part of me says, good for her. The other side of that is, if this isn't confirmed, yeah, I don't want my 14 year old just going to school and using this as a way to connect with other people right absolutely I mean you ever teach your kids something and go well that didn't

turn out how I planned we were intentional and deliberate and we taught our kids that we keep surprises but we don't keep secrets that's right because secrets hurt people right and she says to me i don't i don't want to keep this a secret and i don't i don't know how to meet that and say and what to do with that next there's a difference where i would where i would change it is um there's a difference between a secret and something that's private and when it comes to medical things when it comes to our bodies some things are private. They're not secrets. They're private, right? So, if I've got some kind of medical condition that might be embarrassing, right? I might tell my friends, hey, I've got some medical issues, man.

I'm not going to be able to go to this or that. I'm not going to encourage a child to disclose everything that's going on with their body because other kids can't hear that, right? Now, talking to- I agree. I'm afraid of what can happen if she opens herself to this. And she's unmoored and she's scared and everything doesn't seem quite real right now. And I'm afraid of her opening herself up to being hurt in a new way. Right. But I don't want to turn this into something that she has to hide, some sort of thing that's wrong with her. I mean, she comes to me and she says, you know, Mom, what if we can't figure this out?

What if they can't figure it out? What if I'm just crazy? And one of the most terrifying things, and I've had a few interactions with kids over the years who are heading down this road, and it is a trajectory. That's why I thought you had dealt with it for several years, for it to emerge like this in that way, that my first thought is something physical, but again, I trust you and definitely trust your family and your doctors. So, the most terrifying part of this- What an intuition I'm pretty hard. Yeah. The most terrifying thing. And I'll tell you, I'm just being honest with you as I can,

okay? The most terrifying part in my experience is walking alongside young people in this situation is that they can consciously feel themselves losing their mind. They see, they feel it happening. And it's, there's seasons when they know there are people here or I am having hallucinations of or I am feeling that I am being listened to by that clock over there, whatever the challenge I've experienced. And they also simultaneously know there are no microphones in that clock. There are no other people in this room other than you, Deloney.

And that in and of itself is the scariest part. I can feel myself unwinding. And so I think as her mom, your job is to say, you will never, ever be alone in this deal. As long as I can help it. And you will never lose us. You're never going to lose love. You're never going to lose this connection here. As long as I'm on this planet, I'm plugged into my baby girl. And I wouldn't tell her, hey, that's never going to happen because that's not true. I would say, yeah, this is really scary, scary for all of us. And you are not walking

through this alone. And when she says things like, mom, what happens if I lose my mind? That's when you respond with, that just sounds so scary, doesn't it? Tell me about what you're feeling. You can't promise her one thing and you can't promise her the other thing. You can model for her, I'm listening to these fears. And as a parent, I know how powerless this feels. For sure. Powerless. I do think it's important that she not set herself up with her peers. You said she's 14, 15?

15. 15. Yeah, I would draw a distinction between private and secret, right? And maybe I'm trying to think of something that's not, I don't know. If I had testicular cancer, I would tell my closest, closest buddies. I would not announce that in big spaces, not because I'm embarrassed about testicular cancer, but I don't want to have extended conversations with people that I'm not close to about it. You know what I mean?

Right. And so one of those is I would tell people I got cancer and they'd say, what kind of cancer? And I'd be like, yep. And they'd go, they'd know exactly what I meant because I'm a grown up. Right. And there's people that I would talk to about it, but I wouldn't just go put that out there because of the impact on other people, not on me. If you listen to this show enough, you know, I'll just talk about anything. So I think teaching her the difference between secret and private is one thing. The second thing is making sure she's got people at school she can talk to. So she knows she's not broken, she's not dirty,

she's not disgusting, she's not gross. It is not normal. It is out of the ordinary, but she is still beautiful however she was put together. And so making sure she's got coaches or teachers or guidance counselors at school

that can give her a safe space. And what I would recommend is having somebody she can see face-to-face. So if you went and met with a school counselor, have y'all done that? It's very difficult. They just open the school for people that aren't students to come in. So I could physically go see her counselor now, but I haven't yet. I would write an email to the school counselor exactly what you told me, that we've been getting testing over the last four months. This has emerged, and this is where we're headed. And we want you to help us with some guidance with our young one on how to navigate this at school.

I'm not comfortable with a 15-year-old owning this narrative. Here's why. It may go away. Here's why. It may not be schizophrenia. If I'm you, I would tell the doctors I want a diagnosis of schizophrenia to be a last thing. We only do that if we have to, unless insurance says I'm not paying for the meds, unless we have to. And I want to see if there's some other ways we can work through this. Has she already started taking antipsychotics?

Has she already taken medication? We started with some anti-anxiety medications, working on that angle to see if that was kind of feeding this. And that didn't really help. She's on the lowest dose of an antipsychotic right now. Okay. And it has helped, but they're not gone. Okay. All right.

Is there any sort of behavioral interventions? Diet, exercise, go outside, play with people? Not different than our lives were before. Okay. We're fortunate enough to live far enough outside the city that we've got property and animals, and she's out and getting that vitamin D and that activity regularly. Very cool. What's her interaction with other people? Is she allowed to do that?

Can she play with friends? I'm not sure I understand the question. Can she play with other kids? She is involved in so much. Like I said, she's a rock star. She's in some clubs and in some organizations um outside of school that keep her moving um and and and keep those connections going but it it's all everything's a different format this year okay yeah and part of me wonders man is there some sort of environmental issue here some sort

of physical issue then the combination of those has set some things off that when she gets more into a routine and gets back. And again, that's me being optimistic here. So here's a bigger question. How are you and your husband dealing with this? How are y'all? My usual response is to dig in and give myself lots of practical things to do. So right now my job is just to tell the doctors and get as many tests as I can and have those conversations with her when she's scared. I know that from other crises in my life that I will have to circle back around

and do some work on myself as well, but I'm not there right now. You didn't answer my question though. How's your marriage? Interesting. I don't know that I've ever heard my husband say I'm scared in as blatant terms as he has lately. Yeah. What was your response to that? Me too um he's a very practical person he can learn how to do anything he can if the plumbing's working he'll just fix it and if the car needs something he'll fix that and if the electric is not working he'll fix that in addition to the two jobs that he's working so you know he came to me and he's like i this is the first time i've just looked at something and gone, I have no idea what to do with this. Here's what you do.

You put down the solution part of this because y'all can't solve this. Okay. What you can do is stay hyper-connected to one another, continue to be vulnerable. I'm proud of you for inviting him into that conversation. I'm proud of him for being a vulnerable guy, living out on acreage, saying to his wife, I don't know what to do. Feeling scared is right. And what I'll tell you is I've seen these things when students of mine have been on treatment plans that they hang in there and can go about life. Are they always going to have challenges? Yep, they are. But they can go about life. Are they always going to have challenges?

Yep, they are. But they can go about life. And then I've seen some hard things where kids get off their treatment plan and things are really difficult. And so the fact that your daughter's got a bulldog of a mama in there ready to go to war on her behalf is wonderful. It's great. You've got to temper that with putting your own oxygen mask on

too. And you've got to temper that with knowing that part of her journey is a safe house. And a safe house starts with you and your husband intimately tethered together, rock solid, that we're in this for the long haul. And letting your daughters be heard and not making any promises that we can't uphold. And here's the thing. This is just scary, and it sucks, and it's awful, and it's that lack of power. It's that lack of control, right? Yeah.

I'm sorry and um i wish i had i wish i had better options for you better news for you better all this stuff um but going back to your original question to me is um yeah there's a difference between privacy and secrets and some things for 15 year olds need to stay private and you stay a secret you stay a secret. They need to stay private. But she does need to have some folks at school she can talk to, that when she does get scared, when she does get unnerved, she'll have a signal with the teachers, a signal with the guidance counselor. She'll have permission to just get up and go into the counselor's office.

And she'll have a group of adults watching her while you're not there, and that will give you some peace of mind in your heart. And hopefully the doctors can get to a resolution relatively quickly and then begin a treatment plan that's going to be hopefully short-term, but more likely long-term. And the more we can practice, the more we can get her connected with other people. And the more we can get her following this treatment plan, the more it will become part of her rhythm and the rest of her life. 15, for whatever it's worth, is pretty young. Usually it's late 18, 19, 20, 21, up to 25. And so I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that this is something unrelated

and that she's struggling with something else and it's not schizophrenia. And we're going to just stay optimistic and keep praying and keep hope alive on this one. Ruth, I just can't thank you enough for your heart. Let me know how those conversations with the school go and make sure she's got some folks there and continue to look at your daughter and let her know she's beautiful. She's perfect the way she's made. This is scary. And while you can't make the scary things go away, you will be with her, right? You will be with her.

All right. As we wrap up today's show, um, I was listening to this on the way to work today. And I thought, man, what a great record. What a great record.

It's off the rights of passage record. I think it was 1992. Two women and two acoustic guitars Indigo Girls and the song is Ghost and it goes like this there's a letter on the desktop that I dug out of a drawer the last truce we ever came to

from our adolescent war and I start to feel the fever from the warm air through the screen you come regular like seasons shadowing my dreams. Hey, poets, listen to that. And the Mississippi's mighty, but it starts in Minnesota, the place you could walk across five steps down.

And I guess that was how you started, like a pinprick in my heart. But at this point, you rush right through me, and I start to drown. And there's not enough room in this world for my pain. Signals cross, and love gets lost and time passed makes it plain. Of all my demon spirits, I need you the most. I'm in love with your ghost. This is the Dr. John Deloney Show. Thank you.