The Dr. John Delony Show - Family Drama: Alzheimer's, Cancer, & Childhood Abuse

Episode Date: October 20, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode Dad has Alzheimer's & we're dealing with family drama around it Mom has cancer & my sister-in-law is being a martyr about her care How can I help my husband grapple with his childhood abuse? Lyrics of the Day: "Don't You Want To Thank Someone" - Andrew Peterson   As heard on this episode:  BetterHelp dreamcloudsleep.com/delony Conversation Starters Redefining Anxiety John's Free Guided Meditation Ramsey+   tags: sickness/illness, family, anger/resentment/bitterness, disagreement/conflict, grief, abuse, boundaries, trauma/PTSD   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

And today's show, we have a hard one. This is all about family relationships and dealing with family illness and what happens when we're left out of family decisions and what happens when you love someone who's dealt with trauma and you don't know what to do next. Stay tuned. Yo, yo, this is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Man, I'm glad you're with us.

We have a wild show ahead of us. I say that, I don't really know what's coming, but it just sounds like a cool thing to say these days. It's gonna be wild. I'm glad you're here, man. We're talking about mental health, relationships, relational IQ, parenting, schools, everything. Anything you can think of, give us a shout. 1-844-693-3291.

This is your show. It's for you, by you. Go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And by the way, join our newsletter. Send something out once a week. And it's not bonkers. It's not terrible. It's not me just trying to sell you stuff. It's cool science. It's come out about mental health. It is a cool gadget that I'm seeing or I've experienced or going through. It's a cool newsletter. I don't like newsletters just as a rule,

and so I'm trying to be intentional about making this one newsletter that is worth your time. It's not just going to clog up your inbox. Go to johndelaney.com and scroll down to the bottom and put your email address in there. I'd love to have you on the newsletter list. It's pretty rad. James Kelly, it's good to see you all.

James, that's a lot of denim. Kelly, you look great. Hope's pretty rad. James Kelly, it's good to see y'all. James, that's a lot of denim. Kelly, you look great. Hope all's good. Connor, feeling it? Doing good, man. Yeah, everything's good. This is one of those rare shows. It just feels great today. Well, just wait till you get to the calls. Yeah, right. James can bring down a room, everybody.

Just kidding. Still sad about our loss several months ago now. Still can't let it go. How'd your recording session go last night? Great. What kind of guitar did you use? Telecaster.

Oh, gosh. We had him. We had him, Kelly. Old James solving his equilibrium is going back. He's going to gain all that weight back.

He's going to start listening to sad, jangly music. Poetry about dads and playing Telecasters. We had him, though, for a minute. Kelly was awesome. We did. All right. By the way, we have a loaded—man, the audience out there is crazy today.

It's good to see everybody. There's not a single person out there. Not one. Just empty cheers. It's cool, though. It's early in the morning here, like on a Tuesday, so I hope people at work, things like that, but whatever. All right, hey, let's go to Lynn in Raleigh. What's up, Lynn? How's it going?

Hey. It's going. Oh, man. Oh, no. What's that mean? It's going, huh? Well, it's just another Tuesday in paradise, you know. Isn't it, though? Hey, at the audience outside of wherever you are, is there at least one person out there? I got none.

I got a couple of stuffed animals in the corner. Does that count? I'm looking at like a hand sanitizer bottle, so you win. Congratulations, especially if you've named them. That's pretty great. So what's up? So my dad is in the beginning to middle stages of Alzheimer's. Oh, Lynn, I'm sorry. How long?

So he's been deteriorating for about, I'd say, three or four years now, but we've sort of known it was coming because he had so many aunts and uncles on his mom's side, passive Alzheimer's. I mean, we've kind of known for a couple of decades, but it doesn't make it any easier to watch him deteriorate, right? No, it's the worst. I'm so sorry. It's weird. We're making it. Is your mom still around? So my mom, actually, one of the fortunate parts of the story is my mom is 15 years younger than him. So she's very much capable of being at home and helping him along and taking care of him and stuff like that.

So that within itself is a blessing. So how can I help? I'm so sorry. Wow. So the problem, so I know this is common. My mom, whoever's living with them, right, gets increasingly frustrated with all of the changes,

the deterioration, the fact that your relatives can no longer particularly learn new things, and the forgetfulness and not knowing what day it is and stuff like that. My problem is more with the family dynamics around this. So I have two questions today, but they're related. Okay, talk into the phone there. Yeah. There you go. Um, so I have two questions today. They're sort of related. Um, my, I want to be able to help my mom and help my dad without necessarily taking over jobs that aren't my responsibility. And where that concern comes from is both my husband and my brother have sort of said, well, look, your mom's always done whatever the heck

she wanted to do anyway. You can't enable her. You've got to, this is her job. You can't move in and take over. You can't, like I've got family that doesn't particularly trust my mom's capacity in this. And while from the get-go, I know where they're coming from, but at the same time, I've seen her grow and change a lot in her ability, willingness, patience to take care of him. And I have to find a balance between, because I'm totally the person that's like, okay, it's fine. I'll go over there. I can handle it. You know, I'll take care of this. I'll take care of that.

I'm not going to follow through. So let me ask you this, I'll take care of this, I'll take care of that. I'm not going to follow through. So let me ask you this, Lynn. Sure. What is not getting taken care of that you need to go solve? Give me some specifics. My mom will, my mom has a hobby. Not mom. Take mom out of it. Cause when we, when we start answering with, well, mom, um, it ends up getting filtered through 20 or 30 or 40 years of mom. Oh yeah.

I know. And that's, and that's where this comes from. So put her over to the side. What are the tasks that aren't getting done that you feel like might need to go over there and people are pressuring you not to? Some people are pressuring you to do it. What are the things out there that are floating around that you need to go solve, that you think you need to go solve? Be specific. I promise this isn't me putting it on my my mom so bear with me for a second okay um we'll go on weekend trips um dad has to stay at home and take care of pets dad is not good at being dad does no no longer is good at being home alone.

She will not change that portion of her lifestyle. And that's where the frustration from my family members comes from. Gotcha. While she's going to keep going off on these weekend trips, that's not going to change. When is she going to figure out that, um, when is she going to figure out that she can't do that anymore? And so my, my, I get, I'm the sibling that's closest to them. I live maybe 20 minutes away. Um, and, and it's easy for me to say, well, yeah, I'll check in on dad or yeah, I'll spend the week with him. Or, yeah, because that doesn't affect my commute to work particularly or anything like that.

Sure. And that's where the conflict comes in is, well, this is her responsibility. She needs to figure out that, you know, things are changing and she just can't go wherever she wants and this, that, and the other. Have you sat down and talked to her? Just yelled to, gone to have wants, and this, that, and the other. Have you sat down and talked to her, just yelled to, gone to have lunch together, and said, hey? The whole family, a couple years, a year and a half ago maybe,

we all sat down with both of them and said, okay, this is what me and my brother are willing to do to help you guys along, make sure you're staying in communication so that we can help with whatever's going on. My mom calls me fairly, maybe a couple times a month to just sort of go, ah, your dad's frustrating me again. And like, I just let her vent, whatever. But in terms of me and her going out and just sitting down and saying, you know, what's the game plan?

No, I have not done that. Okay. So here's a couple of things I think that sound like they're circling around. One is, are you oldest, by the way, youngest, middlest? Where are you? I am youngest. I'm youngest. Okay.

Yeah. But I'm also the executor of his estate. So I'm the one that dad trusts, right? You're the responsible baby. So yes, very good. Yeah. I'm the one that dad trusts, right? You're the responsible baby. So yes, very good. So it sounds like, and I may just be off my rocker here, but it's a nightmare loving somebody, being in a relationship with somebody who's in the early stages of Alzheimer's and in the middle stages and at the end. Because it's easy to point at the task.

They can't remember anything. I need to run out of town. Did you eat today? That kind of thing. Have you bathed? That stuff is the surface level frustration. But the deep frustration, the deep hurt there is, it's like you're hugging somebody and they just turn to dust underneath you, to sand.

Yeah. And it slips through your fingers. And her sense of security and safety is going because he's always taking care of everything. That's exactly right. So, yeah. And so it's easy to focus on the tasks part. And what happens when we focus on the task part is we start trying to control stuff. Yeah.

And also, one of her coping mechanisms has been a certain amount of escapism. So I understand her wanting to get away. Absolutely, yeah. So there's escapism

and then there's reality, right? Right. So I want, I would love to see, I mean, I say I want, this is for you guys. I would love to see you take your mom out.

You'll have the big family meeting, which every family needs to do. And then there's the reality 18 months later. Yeah. And hey, mom, you're married, right? Yes. Okay. Now you can speak to her in a, this is weird relational dynamics when this stuff shifts. But hey mom, I can't imagine

what it would be like to begin to slowly like my husband slowly turn to smoke in my hands. How are you? And not an eventy he spilled dog food everywhere but a human thing,

right? And from there say but a human thing, right? Yeah. And from there, say, that's when you can, that will be the bridge to, you're going out of town a lot. If we're going to start going out of town, I feel like we need to make a plan. And sometimes I can be there and sometimes I cannot. And we've got to be realistic about what these things look like

and begin to have human conversations, not solution-oriented problem-solving, but human. And I know I sound like I'm semantics here, but you hear one is relational in nature and one is who's going to make sure the bill gets paid. Both need to happen, but I think your mom desperately needs you to talk to her as a fellow woman, as a fellow wife and say,

I cannot believe this is happening underneath you. And I'm so sorry. And there's a reality here. The second part is, is that I think everybody in your family is trying to love you the best they know how to do. And nobody's being super helpful. So-

Boy, that's my like. Well, and here's the thing. You as the youngest, as the problem solver and the pleaser all wrapped up into one beautiful, wonderful woman are trying to make sure everything is taken care of and make sure everybody is okay with how you're taking care of it. And that's not how a day, go somewhere, and I say that all the time, just clear the deck and say, I know it sounds cool to say this is my mom's job, but that's my dad. And I've got about a year left where he's going to even recognize

me anymore, and so I'm going to lean into that in this season. And husband, I need you to be okay with that. Yeah, and that's, I've started doing, trying to do okay with that. Yeah. And that's, I've, I've started doing, trying to do things with him that enjoys before he can't enjoy them anymore. Um, but you gotta, you gotta be, you gotta be clear with your husband about that. Otherwise he's going to be angry at your mother

and law, his mother-in-law, your mom. He's going to be angry at your dad. Cause he's going to feel like y'all took my wife from me. And that's different than you looking at him saying, I got about a year left with my dad. And I'm going to miss him forever. And I want to soak up every last moment he recognizes me. And that's a different thing for your husband. And that's him living in, he'll be frustrated, but he will love you in a way. It's a deeper connective. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does make sense. So, and be clear with your brother and sister. It's a moment where you as the executor, you as the youngest are going to reverse engineer this whole thing. You are not doing things to make everybody happy anymore. You are doing things to deal with relationships, to deal with reality. And that's going to be you co-creating this with your husband. And then you saying, here's what this is going to look like. And just know this gets messy.

Mom may disappear. Mom may completely abandon this whole thing. Or she may, like you said, she may turn into the most extraordinary caregiver that nobody expected. Your brother and sister who's been so awesome and such mentors, they may turn into complete idiots because they don't know what to deal with your dad. One of them already did. Exactly. They will. But as you say, that's another phone call.

Well, they're going to get – they're going to get – they're going to get – they're going to feel ashamed that their younger sister's taken over all this. And so they're going to blame you for it. They're going to blame mom. You can't control any of that. You can control two things, your thoughts, the way you love your dad, the way you decide to think about your mom, the way you decide to take about your husband and your actions. That's it. And those actions are, I'm gonna be this clear, this direct. I'm gonna follow this plan. I'm gonna have this conversation with my mom, this one with my husband.

And then I'm gonna tell my brother and sister, here's what we're doing. And I'm gonna soak up the moments I came with my dad. And I'm gonna not feel guilty when I gotta go to work or deal with my own kids. I'm going to take this control of this thing from the head up. And by the way, you're right.

Your mom's job is to take care of her husband. This is her responsibility. And so you're an adjunct to that. You are not the caretaker. And when you get an impetus to control stuff, I want you to back down and ask your body, what are you trying to solve here? Is there an issue?

Is dad not eating? Do I need to go feed the dog? Or am I so sad and scared that I'm losing my dad right in front of my eyes? I'm watching him just disappear. And that's heartbreaking. You got to sit in that grief because you can't solve that. You got to own it. You got to sit in it. You got to hold that old man's hand and tell him you love him. Even as he slowly, the recognition slowly leaves his eyes and it's hard, and that's why Alzheimer's is a, it's just evil.

It's the worst. That's why he's so lucky to have you, and so lucky to have you. Hey, we'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. All right, we're back. Let's go to Lisa in Dayton, Ohio. Hey, Lisa, what's going on? Hey, Dr. John. How are you? Remarkable. How are we doing?

Good, good. So I'll just jump into it. My husband's mom was diagnosed with stage four brain cancer earlier this summer. Oh, my gosh. Seriously? Yeah, it's been a little rough. Out of the blue? Yeah, sort of. There was like a month where they thought she had a stroke, and then she had another stroke, and then they finally diagnosed the cancer, and it wasn't a stroke at all. Lisa, I'm so sorry.

She's a pretty wonderful woman. Yeah, yeah, I'd definitely say so i'm so sorry that's the worst man man man oh so this is just a few months old so oh man i can only imagine what y'all are going through so um how can i help so basically we've been kind of having some weird family dynamic issues. Yup. Um, go figure. And basically we feel like we're being left out in terms of like assisting with her care.

Okay. Um, sorry, this is hard. I'm nervous. Well, number one, don't be nervous.

Cause the advice I'm going to give you is about worth what you pay for it, so that's all good. And, yeah, man, I just can tell you love that woman. And you love your husband. Is he sad as all get out? Yeah. It's hard to hold the heartbroken hand of someone we love, too. Wow. Yeah.

Okay, so y'all have been left out. Does he have a sister that's just trying to take over everything? Yeah. Man, I should'all have been left out. Does he have a sister that's just trying to take over everything? Yeah. Man, I should do this for a living. So he's the middle. He has an older brother and a younger sister. And essentially ever since the diagnosis and being in the hospital. Can I guess?

This is so rude. Can I guess? Older brother is trying to flex and tell everybody, like, this is just... And then sister's just trying to run everything. Am I right? I could be way off. Sister, yes, but brother... Older brother is kind of like... Him and his brother are kind of the same in that they don't like confrontation. So they're just kind of like backing off. Ah, okay.

And so I can't necessarily speak for his brother's household because I'm not there. But it just seems to us like ever since she's been in the hospital in and out with surgeries and everything, there was never like an initial family meeting or like this is how we're going to proceed with everything. There was never any talk of like, maybe we should get a second opinion or maybe go somewhere that's more specialized. Basically, his sister and his dad have decided how to handle her care

and haven't really been letting anybody in on that. So the text, like they created a group text, for example, and it was only the siblings, none of the spouses were included. But then I got upset because the sister's husband got included because he's a nurse. And so they think it's valuable that he's up to date on everything. And then we weren't sure what to do. So we offered some help by setting up a GoFundMe to help with like medical expenses. And so I was texting his sister back and forth about details

to put on the GoFundMe page. And basically it came out that they weren't really letting the boys in on all the information because they just didn't seem like they cared. Yeah. So here's what I want to tell you this, okay, Lisa? And this is me giving everybody the benefit of the doubt. Let's try how I try to live my life. Your father-in-law is everything in his world is upside down. And everything in your sister-in-law's world is upside down.

And when our worlds get turned upside down, we just start trying to solving problems the best we can. And it doesn't always bring out the best in people. And we start projecting onto other people. We start blaming other people because we hurt so bad. And we can't possibly blame mom for this hurt because she's got cancer. So we're going to blame brother. We're going to blame brother's wife.

We're going to blame brother's little kid. We're going to blame some doctor and something. We're going to blame the internet, whatever it is. And so then people start communicating via text. Then all the communication gets lost in translation there's email chains sent around all that stuff you nailed it at the very beginning one of the brothers needs to call a family meeting we're getting in the car and we're driving down do y'all live in the same community? We all do, like 10 minutes from each other. Yes.

And so I'm going to back out and say, I'm going to say this in a way that's going to sound like I'm coming after your husband and I'm not, but I'm hitting the pendulum all the way to the other side. Okay. Well, actually, let me say it this way. I had a buddy call who I love,

known him for a long time, was complaining about his ex-wife and was frustrated by his ex-wife and how she's been treating their child they share together didn't know this was going on ex-wife screwed this up, ex-wife screwed that up and I finally said where were you

this is somebody I love. That phone got quiet. I said, where are you? Because you're doing a lot of blaming. That's your kid too. And so we went, he went over there and had a discussion with his parents and basically said, we're here to help in any way, but like, we don't know your schedule. You have to kind of tell us what you need. That's right. And we still got nothing. They came over the other day and they told us that for the last three weeks, they've been scrambling trying to find people to take her to appointments because the person that they had lined up got sick.

Yeah. But never once did they call. When your husband asked them, why didn't you call? What'd they say? They just said like, well, we didn't ask him. Why didn't they call? We just, we just said, oh, I said we would be available if you need something. And they just kind of looked at us like, I don't know. So I think it's really wise if, if at all possible, I'm going to give you the optimistic side and the pessimistic side. The optimistic side is getting everybody in the same place at the same time.

And one of the kids needs to step up and say, we need to all be on the same page here. Everybody here is available. Our spouses are a part of this thing. They're not going to be excluded. And we're all here to help mom. We're all here to help dad. We're all here to help one another because it's going to be hard for everybody. No more games, no more texts, no more this and that.

And coming up with a meal thing with a, here's what the doctors are saying, we're going to go to as many appointments, whatever y'all are going to agree on, it has to be said in the same room with the same people. And no martyr syndrome, no, I only have to do this and that, and all that kind of stuff. This is where the siblings can step up.

That's what I've been getting from her, is just, I'm the one that's mom's closest person person and I'm the one that should just take all this burden and blah, blah, blah. And my concern is that down the line, when all this is said and done, she's going to use that against him. Yeah. And here's the thing. She might. She might. She might. And you can't do anything about her hiding information from you.

You can't do anything about her trying to use the situation to prop herself up. You can't do anything about that. And so what I'm going to tell you, Uli, says you're going to make yourself bonkers in the middle of a really tragic situation, trying to solve for your sister-in-law acting like a four-year-old. My guess is there is years of sibling dynamics here and that are coming to play that always does. And your husband can tell you stuff all day long and your brother-in-law can tell you stuff all day long, but you weren't there with how they treated their sister and how your sister treated them and how mom,

all that stuff comes up to play in this mess. That's why a clearing the deck, making sure your in-laws know we are here for you. And then after that, if they choose to not call you, it will hurt like bloody hell. And you can't do anything about it. It will be heartbreaking. And that's the choice they chose to make. And the peace you will have is we reached out.

We did everything we knew to do. We kept going over and mowing the yard. and the peace you will have is we reached out. We did everything we knew to do. We kept going over and mowing the yard. We called every morning and said, is there anything we can do to help today? We're not going to go to war with my sister-in-law. I'm just not going to do it. I'm not going to fight you over this,

over who cares about mom the most. I'm not going to do that. Every day I'm going to call you and say, is there anything you need today? And I'm going to do that for a few weeks until it just becomes a rhythm. And if I'm not able to help that day, I'm not going to call you and say, is there anything you need today? And I'm going to do that for a few weeks until it just becomes a rhythm. And if I'm not able to help that day, I'm not going to call. I'm going to remind them, hey, we're here if you need anything. And then we're going to go from there.

And they may think, your in-laws may think they are doing good by not calling the brothers. For some twisted way, they may think that that's just the best thing to do. But until you is going to war and getting angry, it will solve nothing. It'll just make this painful thing so much more hurtful. It sounds like a desperate need of an in-person conversation. And if you can't get that, then you can't get that. And you can mourn and grieve it and, and I'm going to call my in-person conversation. And if you can't get that, then you can't get that. And you can mourn and grieve it and, ah,

and I'm going to call my in-laws every day. Right. But I do get, man, I hate this for you, and I do get the dividing. You're not really one of the kids. You're over here. And some of that's going to be you imagining that, and some of it's going to be super real,

that sister-in-law's circling up and making this her deal. Whatever, you know what I mean? I'm just not going to get in a competition and a fight with people trying to you know what I mean? I'm just not going to get in a competition and a fight with people trying to help somebody who's dying. I'm just not. What's the prognosis on this cancer? And that's the thing we've been getting mixed information. And I'm not necessarily sure if it's the doctors trying to give them false hope or what it is, or if it's the sister trying to bury the brother, like, pat

it for the brothers. But they told her 12 to 18 months, but then when they did the surgery, supposedly they got, like, most of the tumor out. So I'm not, I really don't know. So I'm sort of like 12 to 18 months in my mind.

Yeah, and that's where you're going to protect yourself. And that might be data supported and it might not be. That's where a clear meeting that somebody bring a calendar that you can pass along to everybody or start a Google calendar or whatever. It's going to be a way that everybody can keep the appointments in schedule, the meals needed in schedule. It just needs some organization here, and it needs some communication. And if you get a clear sense that they don't want your involvement, it will hurt in a major way, and that will be their issue, not yours. Right.

So we're kind of in a hiatus right now where she has a few weeks off before her next treatment regimen. So we're trying to take an impromptu vacation just to spend time with her. So I hate to put a damp in the vacation mode, but I feel like this stuff needs to be talked about. Would you call a separate meeting? Because it's really hard to get everybody together all at once. Not talking about cancer is not going to make it go away. Right. Not talking about the elephant in a room isn't going to make it go away. So if I'm you, here's

how I would have that conversation. I would say, hey, we're all getting ready to go on a mini vacation and looking forward to it. There's a big elephant in the room. Mother-in-law, would you want us to talk to you about it? How do you want us to address this? You want us to just pretend it's not real for 48 hours? Do you want us to connect with you? How do you want us to walk alongside you?

And let her speak into it. Right now, she's got three kids and three spouses worth of people trying to solve her, trying to help in ways that they think is the best way. And nobody's asked mom, how can we help? And mom may say, the best way you can help me, sons, is y'all love your spouses, y'all go to work, hug my grandkids, and I'll call you if I need something. Daughter, I need you here every step of the way. And she gets to do that. And you can choose to take that personally and say, well, I wish you'd asked me, or you can choose to say, cool. She is a woman who has got terminal brain cancer, and she gets to call out how she wants to be helped. But instead of a bunch of people making a bunch of side decisions

about how they best help mom, bring mom into the conversation. Let her speak directly into how we can best love her. Let dad do that too. And hopefully that will solve a lot of these downstream effects. And it's going to be on you and your husband to choose. I'm not going to get my feelings hurt if they request sister, not me. It's going to hurt, but I'm going to choose to let them have the care they want to have. That'll be hard. I'm going to choose and I take this stuff personally, even though it's a mess, even though it's the most personal situation

I've been through. And I hate this for you, man. A powerful matriarch that gets brain cancer, it's just devastating for the whole family. That's where clarity, clarity, direction, as much in-person communication or Zoom conversations as possible, standoff texts, and as much clarity, clarity, clarity, clarity, clarity. I keep saying that over and over. It tends to just, it just makes the path so much easier to walk on. Heartbroken for you, Lisa. Let's get everybody in a room ASAP and have this conversation. And then we'll go from there.

Thank you so much. Be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, what's up? Deloney Show. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, let's take one more call. Let's go to Michelle in Boston. Hey, Michelle, what's going on? Hi, John. How are you? Good. How are you? Good. So my question today is how do I work with my husband to help

him battle his severe, severe trauma from his childhood and the PTSD and anxiety and depression that he's left with today, even with one of his abusers still in his life. Um, and then also how do we connect on a spiritual level, um, for his healing when some of, a lot of his trauma came from people who were related to his church and religious people and that genre. I feel like he holds back because of it. Yeah, of course. And we can't really connect on that level. But even so, he's just in such a bad place in his life. And this person is still around.

And we just seem like stuck. Yeah. So is your husband going through treatment of some sort? Is he, is he on a healing journey or is he just getting through every day, just grinding it out? He is on a healing journey, but to be completely honest, he was forced to, um, a couple of years ago, his body kind of turned on him. And he started what we thought were allergic reactions turned into panic attacks and his anxiety was taking over his body. Um, so it, it basically ate its way out and now it's a, it's a daily battle for him. Um, he could be completely honest before me, he used drugs and alcohol to cope. Um, why, of course. Why is an abuser still in his life? He has a narcissistic mother.

Okay. Does she abuse him as a kid? Physically abused as a kid. He was also sexually abused by other others. So did mom know about that growing up? Not growing up. Um, but she was very physically abusive to him. Um, after her, um, after she got divorced from their father, um, probably from like five on, he was physically abused very badly. But she's so narcissistic and gaslighting that she denies it. So here's the deal. Denies even ever using a belt on him or anything.

And he's in a very lonely place in his head. So imagine this. Imagine there is a bear that eats part of your arm and leg as a kid, as a child. Right. Just gnaws it off. Blood, mass, bones, breaking all of it. And then that bear just lives in your living room forever.

Right. Your body would never heal and you'll just die young. Right. And until he decides he's got to create significant strong disconnected

boundaries from his mom so that he, until he gets that bear out of his living room and creates somewhat of a safe place where his heart can stop racing and his head can stop going, hey, she's right there. She's right there.

Right. He's not going to heal. We did move. So we did move away from where we're a couple hours away from where we grew up. That can make it worse. Because then the communication's electronic. And that gaslighting.

And she's the worst. Exactly. And so he needs to take his phone out and block her today. No more contact. Today's her birthday too. Well, happy birthday. Right. He just wrote to me a little while ago saying he did call her.

Good. I feel like he's my child because I'm trying to hold up the boundaries. Hey, he is. He's become your kid and your mom. And that's not a way to hold on to a marriage. And my guess is you're getting exhausted. I'm exhausted. And you love him like crazy and you're getting exhausted. I'm exhausted. And you love him like crazy

and you're getting exhausted. I am. Because I'm also, I'm scared for my kids. Yeah, of course. They really, they really love their grandmother and,

but I mean, it's all part of the game, you know. Your grandmother is. She doesn't even realize that her love isn't real. A bear. Yeah.

That tried to kill your husband. She does not get access to your kids for a long time. And listen, my kids love people that give them candy. I'm still discriminating against about who they're involved with. Right. Right? Yeah. And you've got this picture, and it's an incredible one, of your mother-in-law coming around and being this awesome grandma, and we all go play. That is over. It's really creepy. It is.

It's scary, and it's over. And you have to draw that boundary, and your husband's got to draw that boundary. And when it comes to spiritual connection, it wasn't a bear. It was a firing squad. It was a torture chamber for your husband. And so any sort of faith healing is going to have to be unbraided from the people that hurt him. And so trying to connect with him

in the torture chamber is going to be a challenge for a season. Does that make sense? Yeah. And you're going to feel lonely because you want to connect with him on a spiritual level and you want to raise your kids in a certain way. And he's going to continue to remember, that's where I was sexually abused. That's not safe. Yeah, we can't, he can't even go back to his, where we grew up, he can't even go back.

Of course, of course. It's been slowly happening for a long time. And he's, he just, I'm realizing, like, I do a lot of research and I try to find things. And I just sent him a thing about triggers with his PTSD because he goes, we don't even know what sets him off some days. But I know it could be literally anything. It could be a song. It could be a, um, a way someone, something said a smell of this or that. So, you know, he goes into these breakdowns and has a full on panic attack. And, um, you know, I, well, I'm, I'm just trying to get him out, you know,

help him out and help him through it. And so here know, well, I'm just trying to get him out, you know, help him out and help him through it. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. Number one, I'm so sorry, Michelle. This is so hard. So hard. And you are a strong, strong woman. He's lucky to have you in his life,

and you are also his mom now too, and you are trying to solve this, and you can't solve it. You can't fix him. I'm telling you right now, 1,000% chance, not a doubt in my mind, if he wants to heal from this trauma, he can. No question about it.

It will be a gauntlet. He will walk through hell and back, and he will need somebody strong like you by his side. But he's got to do the walk on his own. You can't lay in this bed with him. You can hold his hand while he's in it, but you can't do in this bed with him. You can hold his hand while he's in it, but you can't do it for him. And if he wants to get to the bottom of, Vander Kolk says,

trauma is not what happened. It is our body's response in the present to things that happened in the past. Right. So until he decides, I want to regain control of my body in the past. Right. So until he decides, I want to regain control of my body in the present, I cannot heal the fact that my mom, the one woman on the planet who was supposed to take care of me, abused the crap out of me. I can't fix, I can't change that. I can't change the fact that the

one safe place I should be able to go to is with my faith community took my innocence away. They stole that from me. They sexually abused me. You can't change that. What I can change is how my body in the present responds to things that happened in the past. And that's what healing trauma is. But he's got to decide that. Right.

And you can't make him do it. It's so hard with the mother. I know. With the mother figure. I know. That's why she's got to, you got to get the bear out of the living room first.

The body's never going to heal. It can't. She keeps biting him, scratching him. Right. And then at the same time, your kids are on that bear's back having the time of their life,

just playing, playing, playing. Right. You got to get that bear out of the living room. She has cashed in. She's out. She doesn't get to be mom for a season. Right. And then she turns that around on us.

It doesn't matter. She is an abuser. I don't care what she says. She gets no votes. She gets no votes in my house. I don't care what she turns around. I don't care what she says. She does not exist.

Does that make sense? Yeah. Say it. Say it. She doesn't get a vote in my house anymore. Right. She doesn't get a vote. In my house anymore. Say it, say it She doesn't get a vote in my house anymore You're right, she doesn't get a vote In my house anymore Say it with conviction You're a powerful Boston mom

She doesn't get a vote in my house anymore Right Would you let some stranger Some strange man just come live in your living room And your husband walks in And he would just punch your husband in the face And then he'd hand your kid some candy. Would you allow that?

Right, no. No, you wouldn't. You'd go to war for your husband. You'd go to war for those kids. And just because it's his mom, it makes it more evil, not less. It makes it more painful, more hurtful.

And your husband feels trapped. And the moment he unplugs from mom will be the first day he starts to get well. Okay. Because his body is continuing to fight and fight and flee and run and freeze from a threat that he's been under for 30-something years. Right. And it's time to get the bear out of the living room. And you can heal from a faith community, for sure, but he's going to have to walk through hell to get there.

It's going to be hard. And it may look different than you and your fantasy and the world, the picture you have. It may look different, you and your fantasy and the world, the picture you have. It may look different ultimately. Right. Right. Because they stole from him. Yeah, my best friend is his sister. And in the past, the sisters have been used as weapons by the mom.

I don't ever want to hear about your mother-in-law ever again. Right. I know. I know. Yeah. Okay. And your mother-in-law ever again. Right. I know. I know. Yeah. Okay. And tell the sister, tell your best friend, mom's not welcome here anymore. Oh my gosh, are you serious?

Yes. Not welcome. She's an abuser. I for sure am not letting my little kids around her. And I am going to do everything I can to keep my husband out of that woman's presence so that his body can finally recognize that he's safe. And I'm going to go back to being his lover, his partner in life, his best friend. I'm going to stop being his mom. I'm going to quit being his mother.

And I'm going to create a well home, a safe home with him. He's going to play a part in this. And he's going to decide I'm worth being well. And I'm worth being completely plugged in and connected with my kids. I'm worth being completely plugged in and having a reckless, wild love with my wife. And he's going to have to learn how to do that. Because the first woman didn't love him, she abused him. The faith community didn't love him, it abused him.

His sisters are a mess. And it's going to be tempting for you to keep punishing mom, to keep going back to mom. I don't care about her. She doesn't get a vote. She's done. And this is hard. I'd love, love, love for you to give us a shout back. And I'd love to talk to your husband. Both of y'all on the phone at the same time, that'd be awesome. I'd love to just listen to his story and walk alongside him. But remember these three things. You cannot fix him. You can

love him. You can stay physically connected to him. You can hold him. You can look him in the eye and say, I love you, but you can't fix him. He has to decide, I want to be well. And by the way, he's not broken. He needs healing. He's hurt. He's not broken. Second thing is get mother-in-law out. She gets no more votes. Done. Get the bear out of the house. Number three, I want you and your husband, you've got to, you, Michelle, you've got to put this fantasy picture down of what you've created,

of this perfect life. It's different now. It's different. I want you and him to go co-create what this thing is going to look like. And you're going to do it season by season by season. What's the next six months going to look like for us? Is it summer? Is it winter? Is it spring or fall? What's it going to look like? And we're going to slowly rebuild this thing. And we're going to paint a picture together. And it sounds all cheesy. It's not.

You'll have to excavate everything and rebuild something totally new. That doesn't include mother-in-law. Oh, Michelle. He's so lucky to have you. He's so lucky to have you. Thank you so, so much for your call. James Kelly. This is a hard show, man.

People are hurting hurting hurting man man this uh man we're gonna from my favorite songwriters in the world

he lives here in Nashville today's song of the day man to listen to these lyrics is from Andrew's song of the day, man. So listen to these lyrics. It's from Andrew Peterson. The name of the song is Don't You Want to Think Somebody. Don't you want to think someone? Can't you feel it in your bones that something isn't right here? Something you've always known, but you don't know why. Because every time the sun goes down, we face another night here waiting for the world to spin around just to survive. But when you see the morning sun burning through a silver mist,

don't you want to thank someone? Don't you ever wonder why in spite of all that's wrong here, there's still so much that goes so right and beauty abounds? Because sometimes you just walk outside and the air is full of song here and the thunder rolls and the baby sighs and the rain comes down. Don't you want to thank someone for this? In spite of all the hurt and all the pain, folks, don't forget to look for beauty.

There's more good than there is wrong. I promise you, I promise you. Thank you so much. We'll be right back. The next show with the Dr. John Delaney show.