The Dr. John Delony Show - Greatest Hits Vol. 23

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

On today’s show, we’re looking back at some of the most epic calls in show history, including: - A wife reeling after discovering she’s been lied to for almost 30 years - A couple unsure of how to recover after trying an open marriage - A woman wondering if she should tell her husband she was unfaithful Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Building a Non-Anxious Life Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. We've come up with three of our favorite calls, and they are centered around marriage. So if you're not married, you've got to listen. If you're thinking about getting married and you're engaged, you've got to listen. And if your marriage is falling apart, and you're trying to figure out a first Christmas

or a 10th Christmas on your own, you're not alone. Ho, ho, ho. This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, and it is Christmas. Christmas. If you're listening to this show right now, and let's be honest, you probably shouldn't be. But maybe you're listening to this the day after Christmas or maybe it's Christmas and you've opened presents and your family's already complaining and fighting and they've gone back to bed and you are staring off into space or you're out for a walk so that you can breathe

or maybe your family just is all sitting around a fire opening gifts, listening to this show. I hope that's not happening. Actually, I kind of do hope that is happening. That would make for some fun slash awkward conversations. Whatever the reason you have joined us this morning or this evening or whenever you're listening to this show, we're so glad you're here. It is Christmas. And as a special Christmas gift, what we've decided to do today is go back into the vault, into the archives

and pull out some of the greatest, most important shows ever. And we've come up with three of our favorite calls, actually your favorite calls, and they are centered around marriage. So if you're not married, you gotta listen. If you're thinking about getting married got to listen. If you're thinking about getting married and you're engaged, you got to listen. If you are married and everything's

great, plug in. If you are married and things are falling apart and Christmas just solidified what you already knew, got to hang with us and check it out. And if your marriage has fallen apart and you're trying to figure out a first Christmas or a 10th Christmas on your own, check it out. And if your marriage has fallen apart and you're trying to figure out a first Christmas or a 10th Christmas on your own, check it out. You're not alone. So here is a best of marriage shows curated for you. We're so glad that you're with us. I wish you guys the best.

I hope you got everything you wanted for Christmas. But more importantly, I hope you're surrounded by people who love you and who care about you. And even if they're annoying, you know they've got your back. Here we go. Let's go to Rebecca in Medford, Oregon. What's up, Medford?

Not Medford. What's up, Rebecca? How we doing? Hi, Dr. John. Thank you for taking my call. Of course. I'm a really big fan. I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much. I'm grateful for you. What's up? I'm a really big fan. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. I'm grateful for you. What's up? I'm just wondering. I found out some very shocking things 10 months ago. I found it out all in one day. My question is, how can I heal after finding out my husband has been keeping secrets from me throughout our entire 28 year marriage. What kind of secrets?

I just had a, I'm not one to check phones, babysit as I call it, check his computer. But I had a weird feeling and I checked his computer. And what I found out was completely overwhelming. He had reached out to an ex-girlfriend two years prior. Nothing came of it, but he had reached out. I found out he had a porn addiction, lots and lots of porn. It seemed to have escalated, it looked like, into some kinks. I had no idea that he was into. He was reaching out to couples.

He was in chat rooms. The way that he was speaking to other people was definitely not the person I knew. We're very close. We've been best friends for so long. We just, you know, we're very close. We have each other's backs. I know him inside and out, and I feel like he knows me, except I have never once lied to him. The way he was speaking to these people was crass, graphic. But the most disturbing to me is that he had showed to these random online people photos of me, sexualizing me, describing my measurements,

and a desire of me to be with another man in front of him. They weren't nude photos of me, but they were racy photos, you know, just shorts and like a low-cut tank top that, you know, I just would never, ever in a million years think that he would share that with someone. Um, and all these things I found out were, were so shocking. Um, and I just found out more and more stuff as I, as I read through, I started crying. Um, I felt like I had no idea he felt this way or that he was even capable of doing something like this. So this was 10 months ago. Yeah. Tell me about the last 10 months. How's that gone? Well, I kicked him out. We have a trailer. So I kicked him out

to get some space. I was furious. I couldn't stand to even look at him. How did he take that? Did he say, I understand? Or did he go kicking and screaming? No, at first he gaslit me and made excuses until when I approached him. I gave him a chance to be honest on his own, and he was not. And it wasn't until I presented him with black and, you know, there in black and white what I read, and he could not deny it anymore. And then he became, no, he left willingly. He let me kick and scream. He took it, and then he was just

he wrote me a letter after letter after letter while he was gone just he's in deep shame extremely remorseful crying it's been a rough 10 months very up and down and he

I mean he went so far as he made a list of everything he was going to do to get better and has followed through with most of it. He made, you know, he became very transparent. He put, you know, locks on anything porn related. He just quit overnight. It seems just overnight. And all of that, I appreciate. He's been trying very, very hard. He did promise to go to counseling

and get us in marriage counseling, if I would agree. And that has not happened. We've actually been for 10 months, he's been fighting with the insurance company and not getting a response. Yeah, I don't care. I don't care about that. Yeah.

So how can I help you? Sounds like just the whole world blew up. It blew up. I didn't know how we would go on. Right. I felt trapped. Sure. I felt absolutely trapped, overwhelmed, and we had just moved out of state.

And I thought I would, I told him I would have never made this move with you if I had known this was going on. Sure. The hardest part for me now. Yeah. How can I help you? Yeah. From just my point of view is that I feel I don't trust myself. I don't trust him. I don't trust any other men. So I feel helpless in that. I feel disoriented. And the anger, like I do really well. We do fine. And then all of a sudden the anger will pop up and it keeps popping up. And I know I want to heal from this. I want to get better. It's going to take a long time.

How long? 11 months, four days, three hours. Oh, good. I got my calendar. Marking it down. Put a star by it. It'll, it'll, it'll just clean right up right there. Um, okay. Couple of things. I, it two it's very rare that this happens that somebody says i was completely blown away caught off guard that remember that movie the six cents with bruce willis and remember the end of that movie and you're like oh no and they actually do a really amazing job of showing you all the places where you missed it. Yes. And it's easy to look back on your life and go, oh no, oh no. Right. And that's that sense of,

I think I knew this all along or parts of this or not all of it, but oh my gosh, this makes sense. And then I remember this conversation, I remember this question. And then that's that feeling you get, which is most people don't realize that when somebody's cheating on you or unfaithful in any number of ways, the most disorienting thing is you don't trust yourself anymore. Like, man, how did I miss all of this? Right? Yeah. I also think that this is a little unique situation. And here's why.

It feels like you don't know this guy and you can't trust this guy and everything about him is a lie. That's not true. Okay. He is the guy that sat with you and I'm just going to make up some stuff. I don't know if any of this is true, but he is the guy that sat with you when your mom got sick. He was the guy that showed up on Christmas morning. Those things happened and those are real and you can't throw all that out that happened okay okay um and it's real easy to be like none of this is real none of this is true that's that's a defense mechanism it is the harder part is dealing with the paradox of you sat with me and

held my hand while my dad passed away and then you went home and got on our computer, and that's a harder thing to deal with than just swinging that thing, my husband's perfect, my husband's the devil. It's always in the middle, always in the middle. Here's where I think this is a little bit unique. And I hope I say this the right way in a way that comes across that makes sense he clearly violated your trust and he violated um he kept secrets from you okay yeah when it comes to things i'm interested in or it comes into a fantasy world um that's not uncommon

okay it's heartbreaking and it makes people sad but it's not uncommon. Okay. It's heartbreaking and it makes people sad, but it's not uncommon. Okay. Where he crossed a line for me is he took pictures of you and put them out to the world. He brought you into a situation that, um, in a way that is for me personally is above and beyond a normal guy. I got started looking at pornography and kind of got sucked down a rabbit hole and ended up in some chat rooms. It becomes

Dungeons and Dragons, a pornographic Dungeons and Dragons. It's a fantasy world super separate from the real world. That as crazy as it sounds, that doesn't bother me. It bothers me in the clearly hurting people. It's not weird or crazy, okay? Yeah. What's weird and crazy is taking pictures of your wife and putting them on the internet

and saying, hey, any seekers, here's her measurements. That to me is such another layer of a violation here that I'd have a hard time coming back from that, to be honest with you. Because he dragged you into something that you don't even know you're being dragged into. No idea. Right?

And so I want to validate your, I want this to work, but I can't seem to make it. Right. Like your hurt and violation is very, very, very real. Above and beyond what I would call, and I hate to use this word, it's just the world I'm in, a normal pornography addiction or a normal violation. Someone is spending time, erotic time, in a fantasy world. This is above and beyond. And so the question you have to ask yourself is, are you playing house? Are you playing Mary just on your terms?

Meaning you kicked them out, but I still go to dinner with them. We've still been intimate. We're still friends. We're still hanging out all the time, but then I just get raged out. And what you're doing is you're trying to heal a wound, but you keep

pulling the band-aid off. Is that fair? Yes. Absolutely. I hate to bring his feelings into this, but they are a part of it because y'all have been married a long time and his feelings are a part of you. Whether you want them to be or not,

it can be cruel too. it could be it could be a hurt well it's a form of punishment i'm gonna punish you through this right and that doesn't help anybody do anything that's that's a that's a waste of energy and time what you have to decide is what do i need right now and i'm telling you just as your friend, if you need, I need to cut off contact with you for a season, feel fully empowered. And no, it is hell

on the other side of that. Yeah. It's lonely. It's sad. It's heartbreaking. And that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing. Okay.

Okay. And if everybody's telling you, you just leave him, you forget this guy's a bum whatever and you say this is my husband and we're going to figure this out i said till death do us part come what may i'm here um that's going to be a bumpy ride too and so maybe the best gift i could give you is there is no smooth ride out of this both hard part is nobody knows that's right i. I have a therapist, but I just needed to talk to you to even say it out loud because nobody knows. They think he's perfect.

And so you've heard me say this from the great David Kessler, grief demands a witness. And what you're experiencing right now, that anger, that rage, that's grief. Yeah. That is, we set this sucker up, dude, and you blew it up. Yeah. Right? It feels like grief. It is. That's exactly what it is. You are mourning the death of what was. And now what you get to choose is what is going to be. And if you choose for what is going to be with him, great. Y'all are going to have to work

really hard. And you're going to have to get a new architect to help you draw a new building. And you're going to have to get new contractors to help you build something totally new because what you had is over. It's gone. It is. Yeah. And if you choose, I'm moving into a duplex. I don't want another big building. That's another avenue for you as well. But I haven't seen that very successful without some space. Okay. And I have never seen somebody do this successfully by themselves without telling people out loud. They're going to be, you know, I mean, you can probably guess my fear in that is that I don't want people to judge

my husband. Um, yeah, but you want, you want to not drown. Isolated. I feel so isolated. Right.

And you are continuing to prop up the image of this perfect little family that you had. You have to let that go because it's not real. Yeah, you're right. You're right. And maybe the first step is calling a close friend and letting them, letting her know I'm about to blow your mind. They will fall down in shock. I mean, I can, you know, I, they will go through a fraction of what I went through when I found out because I...

Why are you protecting them? Why are you protecting him? I'll tell you why. You've been protecting him your whole marriage. Yeah. Oh, I have. Yeah, I know. Your whole marriage, you've been protecting him. At some point, Rebecca, you have to decide that you're worth being well and you're worth being whole.

Even if that means what you, the fantasy land you've kept duct taped together for 20 or 30 years is no more. Yes. What if they say things back that actually hurt me? They will. They will say stupid things like, well, what did you do? Is it such a big deal? Like you will get all that stuff hurt me. They will. They will say stupid things. Like, well, what did you do? Is it such a big deal? Like you will get all that stuff. Right.

And really quickly, you will be able to determine how close these friends actually are. But let me tell you the word, like the word that we're dancing around here that I hate more than anything is vulnerability. You only way forward to heal is to vulnerability literally means to roll over and expose your

belly so that another animal can come kill you and hoping that they choose not to and that's what it feels like right oh that's fear yeah oh my gosh so let me be very clear. Your friends could roast you. They could destroy you. Mm-hmm. They can. Yeah. But if you don't find people to talk to, you will be the casualty here. Yeah, it's so isolating. I feel disoriented. It is.

And when you start saying these things out loud and seeing the shock on their face, you're going to get a new perspective of what you're experiencing. So before the day is over, your homework assignment is to call two friends and invite them over and tell them everything. All of it. Everything. Even the stuff you left out, which I guarantee you left stuff out of this call. And maybe open up to your friends and say, I'm going to need help practicing not protecting him anymore. I'm going to need help wading through all this grief, all this shame, all of this. I should have said something a long, long, long time ago.

I've had these feelings in my guts for years and I just ignored them. You're going to need help practicing trusting Rebecca again. And in many ways, it's going to feel like you're going to rehab and learning how to walk. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'll be here with you every step of the way call anytime, email anytime and I'd love to have you back on the show

and we can figure this thing out together as we go but you gotta have two people that you called today invite them over in person tonight have that conversation that, as uncomfortable as it's gonna be is where the healing will begin this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm

pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst.

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All right, let's go to Ophelia in Asheville, North Carolina. What's up, Ophelia? Hi. How we doing? Oh, you know, hanging in there. Oh, you know. Oh, there. Oh, you know. Oh, man. So what's going on?

So I am calling to see how to reconnect with my husband after I broke up with my boyfriend. This will be good. Go ahead. Fill me in. Yeah. So I don't know, blame COVID or deployment or that my ACE score of six. I don't know, blame COVID or deployment or that my ACE score of six. I don't know. We had marriage problems and we thought the way to fix it was to go to polyamory and try to fill it in with other people who were more emotionally connected.

And that obviously ended in a great big ball of burning fire. Yeah. Tell me about. So first tell me about how y'all came to that conclusion. Who came to who? So I came to him, I was presented with the offer from a mutual friend of ours and cause I was talking to him about our problems and. He was like, I'll sleep with you. Basically, yeah, I'll sleep with you. I'll be your emotional connection. I, you know, that will be great for all of us.

I'll take one for the team, Ophelia. Exactly. Hey, what a great guy. Fantastic. There's a lot of people in the world that would have just not done that. And, but man, wow. And so you sit down with your husband

and you're like, so I've got an offer for you. How'd that go? At first he was like, I don't understand why. And then he was like, well, I can have someone as well. So we might as well just try it. And then it was about six months of like lust, puppy love, happiness of, yeah, I can have attention when my husband's not giving me any. And then it ended up being that the person treated me terribly. And then I broke it off.

And now we're trying to just kind of stand here in the ashes. Like, well, now what do we do? Did your husband date anybody? Yeah, he did. And how does that sit with you? At the time, I didn't care. I was just happy that we could all be doing this like amicable adults, like quotation marks around that.

And then now I don't like it as much now that I'm realizing I still want to be with my husband and want to fix all the things that are broken in our relationship. So what is broken in your relationship? It's more of the lack of emotional connections. We got married at 18 and didn't know who we were or what was happening. And I had a bunch of childhood trauma that I've been in therapy now for two years finally working through. And now that I'm getting healthier, I want to actually turn around and fix issues in my relationship rather than just being in survival mode. And how's your husband doing? You know, he's just there.

He started therapy finally. He's more than just there, Ophelia. How's he doing? Here's the thing. He watched his wife come and say, listen, you're not meeting this need for me. I think I found this really giving, kind guy. I said he would be happy to step in and have none of the emotional support and all of the sexual intimacy support. Again, great guy.

World class. And then he watched you go off and basically fall in love with somebody. Yeah. And he hung around at home. How's he doing now? He hasn't actually talked about it, really. I mean, he said that he was okay with it

when it was happening, and I was very honest about all of the feelings and emotions and anytime he wanted details about weekends we spent together or something, I would tell him. And he hasn't said anything. I can't honestly say I've asked, though. Yeah. Yeah, I was giving him my question, does he have permission to speak into that?

Or two, I'm just trying to roll through that in my mind and, like, sitting down with my wife and having that conversation. And I imagine everything would be so compressed. I think my body would take over at that point and just numb me out. You know what I mean? That'd be the only way to get through the day. I think so. So here's my belief is that...

Before I give you my beliefs Give me a Describe to me What you felt with this new person In month one Um Like I was happy That I

Was getting attention and that somebody was Underneath that Like um I mean there was shame somebody was... Underneath that. Like, I mean, there was shame, honestly, underneath it. Underneath that. I'm not looking for negative things. Okay. Like, what did you feel?

I mean, I didn't eat for two weeks, if that's what you're asking. No. No. The most common word that we hear in this world, when somebody cheats on somebody, when somebody even has like agreed non-monogamy for a season, the word most common heard is the word alive. I felt alive again. And it feels so, it's just like, okay, it's fireworks. It's cotton candy. It's the greatest feeling after feeling quote unquote not alive for so long i don't think this had anything to do with this other guy

at all they could have everything to do with you and for some reason in the relationship you are currently in your marriage you've chosen death and then for some reason you chose life with somebody who's abusive and took advantage of you. And I'm not saying all people take advantage of all people, but this guy clearly saw an opportunity. And am I right? He didn't treat you well, right? Right. Yeah. I mean, at first it felt like it and then no.

Yeah. So, but that even your willingness to take that sort of, some of this is really great and some of this is terrible, but it all felt alive, right? And so my question to you is, why are you choosing

to not be alive in your marriage? Because life's so short, man. We get one shot. I think we just got complacent. We, I mean, we've known each other basically our entire lives and we stopped trying. And I didn't think that we could go back to trying. So this other avenue looked really good. And so now you're back to wanting to try again.

Tell me what you've tried. When's the last time you slept with somebody else? Over a year ago. Okay. So y'all called it off, right? You said, no, that was a terrible idea. Yeah, and then we tried to stay friends for a bit, and that obviously didn't work either.

So then it's been about four months, and all we tried to stay friends for a bit, and that obviously didn't work either. So then it's been about four months since all communication stopped. Okay. So now you and your husband, have y'all called this off? Yes. Okay. And so now you're staring at each other being like, so what now? Yes. What have you tried?

We went to a marriage retreat together and didn't really get anything out of that. We have a vacation planned to Iceland later, like in the fall time. Yeah, that's pretty much it. So you just gave me two more firework shows. Uh-huh. And you need to hear me say that's not how Desire's built. Okay. Those are fun. I mean, don't get me wrong.

Those are fun and a blast and it's cool to shake the snow globe up and it's cool to change environments. That's all great. This is a daily choice that I want to be alive. I want to be alive in my skin. This is a daily choice that me and this guy are going to sit across the table and say, we got one shot at this. We did something stupid. It didn't help us at all. And now we're living in the ash of this. So what we're going to have to do is we're going to start this thing over, which is awesome.

And we're going to build something totally new. And the cool thing about it is you get to build something totally new. But you've got to stop with the, well, I guess we just quit trying. And we've known each other half our life. All that crap, none of it matters. I could care less about any of it. Everything is about what are we going to do tomorrow? And what are we going to do today?

You know what I mean? Because you come bearing all these excuses. And honestly, I don't care about your ACEs score. I do because I love you and I love talking about trauma and stuff. We can have that conversation. All these things you're working through, which is fantastic. At some point, you have to decide,

I'm worth living alive in my own skin, which means I'm worth living alive in my relationships, which means I'm worth, when things are running a little bit low, that's okay because it's cold outside. And I'm going to have some communication and some practices with my husband that we know how to turn the heat back up when it's time.

And until you can make, and that's hard. That's adult stuff. It's tough, man. It's boring. It's day after day after day. And holy crap, it's worth it. It's worth every step of the way. If he'll play along, will he play?

Yeah, he will. He's so into keeping the relationship going. Okay. That was part of it too, is that he wanted to keep me happy. And so he agreed to it. So you're going to have to process that shame and say that out loud.

Have you told him that? Because here's the thing. Now you're going to start beating yourself up over it. Yeah. Right? Yep, completely. shame and say that out loud. Have you told him that? Because here's the thing. Now you're going to start beating yourself up over it. Yeah. Right? Yep. Completely. And he doesn't need yet another You don't need this.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So can you forgive you? Can you forgive y'all and put a period at the end of it and then go excavate this thing and build something new? I'm going to have to. I can't build anything on shame. You're right, but millions and millions and millions and millions of people do. Okay.

I guess just what's the practical steps then? I don't know if I've ever been taught how to live every day. Yeah. So here's some practical stuff. The first thing is before you go on like another marriage retreat or something spectacular, here's the thing. Those things come with a lot of pressure. And if they're still smoldering ash, that pressure can, it can just lead to something combustible. Okay. And so when I'm going to enter into, like if my wife and I are going to go to a retreat of

some sort, we've got a plan as to what we're going in to get out of this thing. If we're going on vacation, like we talk about in our house, what's this fake, do we need this just to be a reckless wheels off weekend together? Do we need just, do you need to sleep? And I just, I'm going to go for hikes or whatever. Like we are real intentional about what the plan is. Otherwise we need just, do you need to sleep? And I just, I'm going to go for hikes or whatever. Like we are real intentional about what the plan is. Otherwise we both go in with different plans and then we both go in different plans. We have different fantasies about what's going to be on the back end of this thing. We're all going to be all love again. No, we're not. Like I just slept the whole weekend or we're going to have crazy sex all weekend. We're going to

reconnect and find it. Not really. I just want to go to a movie. I'm tired. Right. And my knee hurts. Like whatever the thing is. And so you have to be super intentional way in advance. And so here's what it looks like. Number one, it looks like you being honest with the shame and honest with the secrets. And either there's a couple of things you haven't told him yet. Not talking about gory details about whatever weekend getaway or whatever. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about, this was a terrible idea and you knew it while you were in it

and you need to say that out loud. Or you don't think it was a terrible idea and you gave it a shot and then you realized halfway through it was a terrible idea. You just need to be honest. Shame eats secrets for breakfast. So there's got to be a season of honesty and you have to give him a safe space to be honest. Shame eats secrets for breakfast. So there's got to be a season of honesty and you have to give him a safe space to be honest to.

Okay. And he will probably say things that are hard to hear. Is that fair? Totally fair. Okay. Have you been totally honest with him, 100%? Yeah, I have. Okay.

Then this will be about creating a space for him to talk. And then here's the goal. What are your needs? So I'm going to ask you that. What do you need? What makes you feel alive? What made you feel alive? Feeling seen by the person,

seeing that I was having a rough day without actually saying it, or that my family went off on one of their drunken tangents again, and I could actually express my emotion to the person and have them be supportive. Like, I need to feel seen and supported. Okay.

Here's what a great gift is, and this is not in any Hollywood movie, okay? Okay. You being really clear with him about what being seen looks like. Okay. And in the moment when you are not feeling seen, you say it, not angry and not out of rage, but out of you're a teacher and it's a gift. This is a moment when I need you just to come hug me and say, I'm so sorry your day was hard.

And say nothing else. Okay? Okay. The same as you gave this other knucklehead that benefit of the doubt. Like, I like this in bed or I like that. You taught him those things teach your husband the important stuff okay okay fair fair and he gets to tell you what he needs and by the way being seen is just one because being seen is part one of i need you to

see all of me and please still love me and for a kid with a six on the ACEs score, a lot of people have had their way with you, both emotionally and otherwise. And you have a spinning, like a fusion center in your heart that tells you what you're worth. And it is 1% of what the truth is. Okay? Okay. Am I right? Yes. Yeah, you are. Okay. So you're going to have to let him tell you what his needs are and you can't fly off the handle and you can't shut down. Right?

Run away. That's my. There we go. You go hide. There you go. You can't shut down. You got to stay present with him and say, I need you to teach me. Will you walk alongside me in this?

And then you're going to have to, in the same conversation, preferably over a meal. I like you to teach me. Will you walk alongside me in this? And then you're gonna have to, in the same conversation, preferably over a meal. I like him over a meal. That's just me, because I like eating when I'm sad. And that's not a sad thing. I just eat my feelings.

And so there we go. So you don't have to. You can do it on a hike or whatever. And then you have to say, in one year, I want this to feel and look like this. In two years, in five years, I want this thing to look like this. This thing being our marriage.

And if our marriage is not alive, it's just a reflection of what I'm putting into it. And a reflection of what he's putting into it. Okay. Okay? So, hear me say this um i know of no quality data that suggests an open marriage solves anything i just i haven't seen the data it makes no sense okay i've seen some crappy crappy studies and i know it's super cool to talk about with like yeah bro we're adults we can just be adult that's just stupid you know what mean? I also told myself when I turned,

like was an adult that I could eat Taco Bell every day. And that was a terrible choice too. I'm an adult, bro. I can just do whatever I want. Not great, right? And so here's the deal. You have to decide what we want this thing to look like and you're gonna reverse engineer it.

You're gonna be curious with each other and you're gonna be patient. I do think if you're both invested in this thing, you can have an extraordinary marriage moving forward. I really believe that. Okay. But you have to decide he's worth it and you have to decide that you're worth it.

He can't materialize into your soulmate. He's going to become your soulmate after 25 years of grinding things out. And if y'all rebuild something beautiful and powerful and strong, man, then you look back and say, look what we did together. And he's going to be like, remember that time you and you're gonna be like, shut up, stop. Right? Fair? Yes. Yes, totally fair. Okay. Okay. All of this starts with you getting with

your counselor that you're still seeing and say, I'm tired of carrying these bricks of shame around. We're going to start working on setting them down. Some of that will be about writing. Some of that will be about, you know, they'll have a process with you, with your therapist. Every therapist works with shame. And if they don't, God help you, go get another therapist. Okay. But this is going to be about building something together with him and hearing me say say you are worth a marriage that is alive. Practice desire. It is a practice. What do you need?

What are the ons and offs? So here's two things. I'm going to send you a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future, my new book. So stay on the line here. And I also want you to get a copy of Emily Nagoski's book, Come As You Are. It's a book about sex and intimacy for women, but it's incredible for, I've just found it a really invaluable resource. There's probably a lot of stuff in there that you don't need to hear, but there's some incredible sections on offs and ons and gas pedals and brakes in this idea about sexuality and intimacy and how to have conversations together inside of a marriage.

And there's gonna be stuff in there you don't like, blow, like move on past it. It's like all books are gonna be that way. You're gonna find stuff in my book that you don't like too. My book's gonna walk you through, okay, you've got a mess, you gotta own it. And then now what are you gonna do moving forward?

And it'll give you a blueprint for moving forward there. And her book will give you some conversations to have with your husband and he needs to read it too, right? Thank you for being honest And it'll give you a blueprint for moving forward there. And her book will give you some conversations to have with your husband. And he needs to read it too, right? Thank you for being honest. And set the bricks down, man. Let's excavate this whole thing.

And let's start anew. And let's build something beautiful. I'm so proud that Thorne Supplements, my favorite supplements on the planet, have continued to partner with me and our show listeners for health, longevity, and just feeling good. Thorne is one of our longest standing partners on this show, and it's because I trust them, I use them, I read their research papers, and I know their products are great and that my fans will love them too Here's the deal with supplements. There's so So much garbage out in the marketplace and other than my admitted gummy candy problem I'm pretty freakish about what I put in my body

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I take Thorne for specific physiologic needs for me to keep my body and mind optimized and for overall longevity and health. And here's the cool thing. We've set up an amazing opportunity for all of the listeners of the Dr. John Deloney show. 25% off everything in the Thorne store and not just on your first visit, but every time you make a purchase through our page and our account. This isn't a sale that's going to change from week to week. All you do is go online, create an account through my page, and you'll get 25% off from here on out forever. It's that easy. Go to thorne.com slash you slash Deloney. That's

thorne, T-H-O-R-N-E dot com slash the letter U slash Deloney for 25% off everything in the store. I trust Thorne. My family trusts Thorne. And you can trust Thorne too. Let's go to Natalie in Atlanta, Georgia. What's up, Natalie? How are we doing? Hi, I'm pretty good.

How are you? Good. I love pretty good. How are you? Good. I love pretty good. What's the not pretty part? I can't wait. Well, it's unfortunate, actually. So I'm a little nervous just because I haven't told anyone and it's like, now I tell the world. So this is just great. Okay, before you say this, why'd you pick this forum to do this? Because I need advice from a trustworthy source other than Google. And I listened to your show and Google is not a good place. I found- It's a dark, sad place. Yes. Yeah. A lot of strange information, but this show has been helpful to me and it's a trustworthy

source. So I came here to get some advice. I appreciate that. I'll do the best I can. You'll get what you pay for. How about that? Okay, great. So I have made a horrible mistake, and about two months ago, I found myself in an unhealthy relationship with someone at the gym. Wait, back out.

Are you married? Are you married? Yes, I am married. That's the key. How long? With someone at the gym. Wait, back out. Are you married? Are you married? Yes, I am married. That's the key. How long? That's the key problem. We have been married for about five years. Any kids?

About five years. Two children, two and four. Okay. So I wanted to do a fitness competition, and I found myself at the gym a lot and there was a guy there, trainer, and basically started, you know, helping me out with some workouts. We started talking and it went too far. Um, my husband knows, um, well, he started talking to me, we met for coffee and then the part, we actually ended up sleeping together yes which is the part that my husband doesn't know he knows everything except for that because

immediately i just feared risking like i was scared of losing everyone and i was so stupid and i was like just scared so i immediately lied and blocked him from everything. I have not communicated with him since then and over two months. But now I'm like, well, great. When it was all horrible, I lied. And now I don't know if I should rehash this because things have been going really well. And like, we've really surrounded ourselves

with a great community and church, family and counseling. And I have lied so hard about this one thing among every single person. Because in my head, I was like, I'll just never, ever bring this up. And now I'm like, to move forward, I need to know whether or not I should tell him. The fact that you're calling tells me that you know the answer to this. Well, Google said otherwise. I was like, well, maybe I can get out of this. Maybe that's not a good idea.

So you, number one, bravery. Bravery. Thank you for saying this out loud. Go back and when you listen to this call, your voice changes after you say it out loud. Okay. Take a big, deep breath and then drop your shoulders all the way down.

So in your gut, what do you think you should do? I probably need to tell him. No probably. What do you need to do? I feel like I need to tell him because I feel like if I don't, it's just going to be preventing us, I guess, from truly living honestly.

Yeah. Will this end everything? I don't know if it will. I don't think it will. I just think it's going to make it harder. I don't know what it'll do. I mean, he's definitely forgiving and really understanding. But I mean, y' definitely forgiving and really understanding.

But I mean, y'all have been in counseling and you've talked about this. We've talked about everything and I've just totally denied doing anything more than just communication, meeting him, all that. Okay. So I am just, I'm like, oh my goodness. And y'all just hooked up one time? Yes. It was the hookup and then done. And everything kind of hit the fan.

Like as in he found out about us communicating and, and it was like almost like a rescue for me because it was just not going to go well from there. Yeah. Um, but when everything's starting to look better, I just hate having to rehash all this. Yeah. That's right. But when everything's starting to look better, I just hate having to rehash all this. Yeah. That's why I've tried to find a way out, I guess.

What does your counselor tell you? Well, I've actually, we have never met one-on-one, but we're doing it through our church and it's a couples counseling. Okay. And so I still haven't even been honest with the counselor because I would have to say it in front of both of them. And I'm like, I don't know if he low-key knows or something because I don't know. But he hasn't really told me anything about it because no one knows. So here's what I'll tell you. Your husband knows.

Okay. And he doesn't, he might not know that y'all slept together. He might not know that y'all did anything above what you told him. But he knows there's a gap between the two of you. Yes. And he's going to counseling. He's doing what he thinks he's supposed to be doing. And that gap is getting wider because as he leans in,

there's a part of you that leans out because you know. Is that right? Yep, that would be accurate. And so what I'll tell you is beyond the right thing and the integrity thing and all that stuff, you're torturing a man that you love. And he doesn't even know it. Now, I sound like I'm talking on both sides of my mouth. I said he knows, but then he doesn't even know it. He knows there's a gap there and he doesn't know what it is.

Right. Right. I see that And in some ways it feels better Because he's trying to do everything he can to jump over that thing And you are too There's a part of you that's trying too And there's a part of you that's anchored To still chain to that other thing

Right Right So here's what I'll tell you I'll tell you you I'll tell you, you screwed up, and you know that. The season of life y'all are in with a two-year-old and a four-year-old is hard. And you're not the only one that's ever done that, okay? I'm not trying to make it right. I'm trying to say you're not alone.

Right. And you screwed up. And the measure now. Mm-hmm. And the measure now is what's next. That's what you can control. Yeah. Okay. So you called me knowing what I'm going to say anyway, right?

Yeah, kind of. Yeah. I did. And if you need me to be the person in your life that tells you that, I think your husband's worth being honest to. I think you're worth not walking around your life dragging a load of bricks around with you. Okay. And I think you need to be very aware that this may end everything.

Yeah. He may say, I'm out. Right. Because you did this and because I can't trust you and fill in the blank. Or he may need some space and some time and all those things. Okay. It'll be hard. But what I know is that relationships can't survive big secrets.

Okay. And I know there's all can't survive big secrets. Okay. And I know there's all stories on the internets and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. That talk about, I didn't say anything for 90 years. It was the best decision I ever made. Great. Cool. Yeah.

You found those, right? Yeah. Hoping they would be the right ones. Immediately. And I was like, oh, thank goodness. I never have to bring this up. And then it just ate me. It ate at me. I thought, what goodness I never have to bring this up. And then it just ate me, ate at me.

I thought, what do I really need to do? So role play this with me real quick. How does it work? That's my next question. Like, I don't know because there's never a good time. Like, the kids are sick. Okay, now he has an important test or now it's Thanksgiving. And like, I don't, you know, I just am like And I don't know what to do or when or how to bring it up.

What does Thanksgiving look like for you guys? We would go to his family's house. It's like his family reunion. So we would just go there for the day. Oh, wow. Yeah, that would be intense. But part of me, I don't think the news will be so shocking. I mean, it will be shocking, but he won't be like, I never saw this coming because when you said that he probably kind of has an idea already because of the distance or, you know, I feel like he'll be like, okay.

Not shocked. Like he was the first time he even found any of this out. He'll be shocked. Yeah. Because you've probably done a really damn good job of convincing him that nothing else happened. Yeah, that's very true. Yeah, so he's going to be shocked. He's probably going to be shocked as much by your dishonesty as by what happened.

Yeah, definitely. I'm thinking in my head right now whether you had this conversation before or after. Right. Part of me thinks the right thing to do is to not go pretend with all of his family. Yeah.

And to get a babysitter for the kids and have a conversation with them over the next couple of days. Now we're filming this show the week of Thanksgiving. And so it won't come out until December, but we're filming it now. And so the other part of me says, what's another three days?

What do you think? I think I just am ready to get it done. Yeah. Because I just, the thought of even continuing on is really hard. I don't want to ruin Thanksgiving, but also, or make that a bad memory. So what I'll tell you, I'm going to sound harsh, okay, but just know what I'm saying. You've already ruined Thanksgiving. Okay.

Okay. And so now it's a matter of Thanksgiving will be a hard season for you, y'all as a couple, for the next several years. Okay. And gyms will be a hard conversation for y'all as a couple for the next however long. You know what I mean? That's in stone. That's there. Yeah.

Yeah. however long, you know what I mean? That's in stone. That's there. Yeah, yeah. I'm glad to hear you say that. My gut tells me is you get a babysitter today for the kids. Okay. And I'm gonna tell you what I would do off the top of my head, okay? Okay. I would have a place to stay for me. Okay.

And I would have this conversation in a private place. If you think for a second it's gonna go, I mean, it sounds like he's a safe guy. He's not gonna- He's definitely not. Okay. These conversations are often great with a counselor, with somebody else there.

Okay. If you have a mentor couple that knows, you might want to let them know that this is happening and they can be there with you. Or if you have full trust and my wife would want me to have this conversation with her in person.

Right. Because then she could kill me and no one would ever find the body, right? Yeah, right. But every couple's different. Okay. But you need to get your kids out of the home and then have a place to go and you can offer it.

I've got a hotel that I've put a deposit on and I'm willing to go if you want me to go spend the night somewhere else. Right. And he may say, no, I don't want that, whatever. But I think that's a fair statement. Just you may need a night to cool off. Yeah. Okay.

And know that he may say, I don't want you coming around my family during Thanksgiving, our family during Thanksgiving, or maybe we're going to do Thanksgiving or none of us are going, everything gets sideways. And that's where you need to be pretty loose, hold everything pretty loose and be accommodating because you're going to blow his world up. Yep. For a second time, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. For a second time, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. If you could go back and do this over again,

would you do it different? What would you do different? I would have told him the first time he found out about everything, for sure. Let's back up before that. Well, I would not be talking to somebody like I wasn't married.

Yeah. Or not, how do I say it? Like, presenting myself as single or maybe I just wasn't fully committed to my marriage or something.

Gotcha. Like, it was out of control. Yeah. So here we are, right? Yep. So do me a favor, Natalie. I want you to let me know how the conversation goes.

Okay? Okay. And I'll also tell you one piece of advice I learned from a crisis responder that works here too. Facts are your friends. Don't beat around the bush be very direct and be very short-winded okay okay got it i've been lying to you for the last two months i did sleep with this guy and i couldn't lie to you anymore you're worth more than that and i

love you and i realized i screwed up and i had to say it. And that's where the conversation stops. Okay. Okay. Not a long, drawn-out story of, of, of. Yeah. But be direct and be incredibly honest. And then go from there, okay? Okay. I will. Let me know how that goes.

I will. And we'll be thinking about you, okay? Okay, thank you Thank you so much All right Hey, what's up? Deloney here Listen, you and me And everybody else on the planet

Has felt anxious or burned out Or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right. Thanks for hanging out with us and checking out the best of marriage calls from the Dr. John Deloney Show. As we wrap up today's show like we always do, the song of the day is Kelly's favorite Christmas song. And it goes like this. Fa-sa-fa-sa-pa-rum-pa-pum-pum. Fa-sa-fa-fa-sa-pa-rum-pa-pum-pum.

I am an annoying boy. Pa-rum-pa-pum-pum. I'm playing a drum for an exhausted, recently pregnant, just giving birth, new mom. Gosh. The author of that song thought they were doing the world a favor.

They were not. I love you guys. Go have fun. Throw snowballs at each other. Do something kind for someone else. love you guys. Go have fun. Throw snowballs at each other. Do something kind for someone else. Love you guys. Bye.