The Dr. John Delony Show - Grieving a Mass Shooting in My Hometown

Episode Date: June 10, 2022

In this episode, we hear from a father who’s trying to understand how to keep his teens (who’d prefer to sleep until noon) motivated during the summer, a therapist from Buffalo who’s deeply shaken by the recent shooting and wondering whether she’s cut out for the job, and a mom who’s trying to decide whether she should press charges against her daughter’s molester after promising they would not. Lyrics of the Day: "Lean on Me" - Bill Withers Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. How do we honor our 13-year-old daughter's wishes to not take action against her molester and also do what we feel is right? Over 200 times, someone molests a child before they're finally caught. Your 13-year-old does not get to drive this. You have to report it. What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So glad that you're here. Hey, if you want to be on the show, love to have you. Give me a call at 844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. You can leave a message. And Kelly and counterpart here, Jenna, is also helping us put the shows together.

And she's being, she's incredible, man. Coming up with some great shows. So 1-844-693-3291. Leave a message. Let us know what's going on. And Jenna or Kelly will call you back. Or you can go to to the internet go to johndeloney.com slash ask and hey we're doing something a little bit different the number of emails and handwritten letters and uh people sliding into the old DMs I get about confessions, things they've done or that they are just...

So here's what we're thinking about doing. Thinking about doing a confession show or making it a regular feature on the show where somebody calls and says, hey, this happened and I've never said this out loud. I did this thing and I need to speak it into the world. And then we can talk about potentially what comes next. Obviously, if you call and say that you've hurt kids or the elderly or you abused anybody,

I'm clearly going to call 911. I'm going to call the local detectives and I'm going to have you put in jail. But other than that, I won't say anything to anybody. It'll be confidential and it won't to anybody. It'll be confidential. And it won't be confidential, it'll be anonymous. That's probably a better way to say that. It'll be anonymous and we will not, just give people a chance to speak out loud.

What I'm finding is people are carrying around this really heavy weight, these bricks we talk about on the show. And A, they think they're the only one. And B, they think it's the end of time if they speak it out loud. Some of these professions also, by the way, might not be something that you did, but something that was done to you. And I just need to say it out loud. I wanted you to show up and you didn't. There's been some really healing moments in my marriage when one or the other of us have said something to each other like, hey, I've been holding onto

this for sometimes years and I just need to speak this out loud. And so I want to give people a form to do that. So, uh, go to johndeloney.com slash ASK and, um, just put confessions in the, in the top of the little box there and fill it out and we will, uh, get you on the air. That'd be fun. So let's go to Charles in Finley, Ohio. What's up, Charles? Hey, good morning. How we doing, man? Thanks for taking my question.

You bet. I've been keeping current and listening to the, and catching up on the old podcast. You've become one of my favorite personalities, just so you know. Hopefully I don't spoil your head too much. It's already a humongous square head. If James Kelly

ever starts slipping Ritalin in your coffee to calm me down, I may have to stop listening. I think they put meth in my coffee to slow me down. I come for the help, but I stay for the entertainment. Well, thanks, man. I'm really grateful that you are in the gang with us, man.

So what's up, dude? Yeah, I tell people that you're helping me learn more about me so I can be a better me. But, you know, I don't want to make it all about me. Love it, love it. The kids, they're 16, 17 now. So I know it's a little bit late. They really get a lot of their good habits around the age of 6, 7, 8. But summer's coming up, and I've been thinking a lot about the fact that we've always been a little sloppy and letting them sleep in really late.

One of them would until noon if we let her, you know, lay around and watch TV. And I'm just kind of, I'm wanting to balance how healthy, you know, if it was up to me, I'd wake him up at six o'clock and say, okay, let's go find some chickens to feed. We don't have any chickens. Let's go find some to feed, you know, get them at six o'clock, get them working. But I know that's also not, you know, really, you know, so I'm kind of wondering what the healthy balance is at, you know, 16, 17, to letting them have a little bit of slack in the schedule since high school starts so ungodly early. It's just dumb.

But, you know, so what were your thoughts on that? So before I get going, you said- And how active to stay during the day. Yeah, yeah. So you mentioned something that I want to... I've never heard, and that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, I've never heard that habits are solidified at six, seven, and eight. So what I would tell you is any day, for any of us,

is the day to say, I'm going to start doing something new. There's some codified learning with really young kids for language development and things like that. But when it comes to like six or seven or eight, it's just your kids are watching what goes on in their house and what they're allowed to get away with. And then that just kind of becomes their world until the world around them changes, right? So I think, man, 16 or 17 is not too late to start anything. So good for you guys for thinking about it. All right. So I'm going to give you my personal thoughts, and then I'm going to give you the actual truth.

Is that cool? Yeah, yeah. All right. Personal thoughts. I love the idea of getting kids up at 6 and 7 and getting their butts out to work, especially in the summer. They can save money. They can get outside and get a job. They can do all that stuff. I love that stuff. That's how I was raised. That's how I grew up. I remember in the summers, I had three jobs usually. I would get up and work at a construction site and I'd go work at Burger King and then I'd mow lawns in the evening. I was always doing something, right? And my dad had just a natural inborn.

If I was just laying on the floor in the summer, he had a visceral like, get up and do something. You know what I mean? So I know exactly what you're talking about. Here's the reality. And this is hard for me to say out loud. This is me having to look at the data and the science and say my favorite words in the world when other people say them and say my favorite words in the world when other

people say them and my least favorite words in the world when I say them, and that is, I was wrong. So the teenage brain, and this is from Matthew Walker's stuff, and it's really, as far as I'm concerned, it's irrefutable. And so it's less about, I don't care, and more about, how can I create a world around this? The teenage brain is genetically hardwired to begin to go to bed later and to sleep later. And there's all kinds of hypotheses as to why that is, but it's just reality. And so I'm even starting, my son, my middle schooler, he, I mean, we used to have to say, you cannot go to bed before 730. He just loved running so hard until he collapsed. And even now, like I'll go to bed and have to go

back in there and be like, dude, you got to turn your light off. And he's just like, I'm reading. And I was like, I know it's great. I'm glad you're reading. So all I have to say is that clock starts to shift. This clock isn't laziness. It's wired in. And I hate this and it's reality. Okay. What you touched on, I think what we're doing to our teenagers is criminal for how early we make them go to school. And the lack of sleep on either side of the learning proposition and the social proposition is just, we wonder why kids are so fried and cooked and anxious and exhausted and not making great choices. It's like just taking your car and barely putting any gas in it and flooring it everywhere up until every stop sign and slamming on the brakes. That's what we're doing to those poor kids' brains. So what I would love to do is this, teach kids to get enough sleep and challenge one of your notions, which is sleeping in or going to bed later and sleeping in versus

just laying around watching TV. Those are two radically different activities. So here's how I would do it in my house. I would, if I was in your shoes, I would call a meeting now, like a family meeting, go to dinner and say, we're going to plan the summer and bring your teenagers along. By the way, you're teaching them intentionality. And you would say, this summer, y'all are going to get the sleep that your poor sweet bodies need. And here's what your curfew for the summer is going to be. All like the parent stuff.

And then we're going to reverse engineer it. The TV only will come on on Saturdays. That's a full stop thing. And so I'm going to take away some of these other issues like screen time and your phone's going to be put away. You have to have a job and it is okay if you sleep in until X, Y, or Z. And it's finding that sweet balance with the crux being you'll have to get enough sleep and then we're going to build in the world around it. Does that make sense?

It does. It does. And they both actually have been putting in some applications and one of them has a part-time job for the summer. So they're definitely not lazy in that regards, but I just want to make sure I help keep that motivation going. Here's where I find the worst challenge for most families in this situation is mom and dad, parents. Because if you sit down and have this conversation with them, you've got to participate. So if I cut screens out of my kids' lives, I got to cut them out of mine too.

And if I say, hey, we're going to run hard, we're going to work hard, but then this house is going to sleep, that means I got to go to bed, which is super frustrating and annoying because I want to be up doing other things. And what I'll tell you is if you struggle with that, it took me about 18, 24 months, about two years to really focus on, I'm going to make sleep the number one priority and everything else is going to come around it. And now I really struggle when I have to like stay up and work

late on a project because my body's like, dude, it's 9.30, we're out. And dude, it used to be 12, 1, 2 all the time. And so, yeah, it's funny about, even one part-time job may not be enough. Get two part-time jobs. You know what I mean? I'm all about working real, real hard. You can save up a ton of money and get way ahead.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And get that sleep. This idea of like, here's what I don't want to project into the world. That you work real hard and starve your body of food, relationships, sleep, and all the other resources to keep it going. And then you have these moments of just crash and do nothing as though that's restorative because it's not. It continues the degradation. And that cycle ends up in college where you all-nighter, all-nighter, all-nighter, and then 24 beers and you collapse and you do the whole thing over again. And then that goes into the legal profession and the nursing profession and our jobs where we go,

go, go, go, go, go, go until we collapse. And I just want to back that whole thing up. Does that make sense? It does. That's something I never even considered is either working somewhere full-time or a couple part-time jobs because me, I'm trying to think of, okay, well, if they're not out there working, then I got to make them get up, sweep the floors, dust the house, clean the bathroom, go find some chickens to feed. And I don't want to be a slave driver, make them think that, you know, it was like Cinderella around here, you know, and they have to, you know, clean all the house. What's mom and dad doing? They're not doing nothing.

Yeah, just earning the money to keep the house running. But again, this is one of those, they're 16 and 17. So here are the things that have to get done in the home before TV ever comes on in the week. The TV only comes on on Fridays or Saturdays or both, right? You can watch TV whenever you want. I mean, I'm not trying to dictate your house, but

it doesn't come on until these things are done. And so it's less about, you gotta do this and you gotta do this. They get to choose. Do we want to have five minutes of running through and scrubbing the bathroom so that we can have an hour of watching a show? Or do we want to just not have any of that, right? They get to choose that.

And I think having that conversation, and I'd love to see it like a spectacle conversation. We're going to have that in our house coming up. Here's what the summer is going to look like for everybody, guys. And my wife's going to make a big calendar. And again, my kids are younger, but it's just a great exercise. So we're going to do this and do that. Um, how are we going to do this? Here's what the schedule is going to be for everybody. That way we don't just get these, all of a sudden you look up and half the summer's gone and all the kids are sleeping until

noon every day or until 10 o'clock or they get up at nine and then it's just, here's how the house is going to go in the summertime. And then you and your wife can have to really, really hold each other accountable for that. But hey, this is how, this is it. This is how family systems change. And yes, to all you people out there like, well, kids just got to suck it up and get out. You're right. I know. I wish that was the case.

But look around. Our teenagers are literally falling apart underneath this. And I've just had a speaker here at the office. In the safest time in human history, in the most expansive economy in human history, and in a time when our cars are incredible, transportation's incredible, resources are incredible, we have the most spun up anxious and depressed teens ever. And I for one believe that comes from anxious and stressed and fried adults who cannot get off their phones

and are just projecting this anxiety everywhere. And two, we are not letting, we're not doing developmentally appropriate things for our kids, like letting them sleep, like making them be active, like making them work hard towards a goal, towards a purpose. And so all of this stuff changes

when families like Charles say, hey, we're going to do this summer and the next one after that, and the next one after that, we're going to start doing stuff differently. And that starts with us being intentional, having a good time, and mapping out what this is going to look like, and then we're going to hold one another accountable. And that starts with us being intentional, having a good time, and mapping out what this is going to look like.

And then we're going to hold one another accountable. Good for you, Charles. That's awesome. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving

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what's going on? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm great. Such an honor to speak with you today, Dr. John. Very big fan. I promise you the honor is mine, I assure you. Oh. What's up? I'm so grateful that you called. What's up? So, Dr. John, I'm calling, just having kind of a two-layered issue I hope that you can help me with.

So, basically, I'm a native Buffalonian in Buffalo, New York. I was home visiting my parents this past week when the mass shooting at Tops occurred. That occurred in the neighborhood where I went to school. I knew people that grew up there, and I secondhand know one of the victims. So all this, like so many others, it's been very difficult for me to process, to think about much else since it occurred. And I'm kind of taken aback at how much it's affected me. The more complicated layer to this is that I'm actually a counseling student. I'm doing clinical mental health counseling. Yeah.

Good for you. say if a client needed to speak to me about this, because truthfully, I'm scared too. I'm afraid for my parents to just be living there now, to go to the supermarket, just kind of live their lives and do normal routine things that we have to do out and about. So the whole thing with it is I wish I could speak to someone about this, because I do feel like I'm struggling, but I'm hesitant to say anything to people, especially those that are in my cohort or my professors, because I wouldn't want them to think that I'm now unfit for their counseling profession. So I'm calling Dr. John to see if you have any advice on how I can process this and also not lose faith in my own abilities as a counselor. I think I've always prided myself on being a pretty level-headed

and calm person, but honestly, this has really rattled my sense of security. Yeah. There's a lot here. So the first, I think it's important just to pause for a second, okay? Yeah. And what happened in Buffalo was evil. Yeah. And it was senseless. It's so out of mind. It's the insanity, right? Yeah. And being from there,

this is different than a news headline. This becomes home, right? Yeah. And knowing people, this becomes in your chest. This isn't just in your head anymore, right? Yes. And knowing people, this becomes in your chest. This isn't just in your head anymore, right? And so I think it's important to just stop for a second, honor the folks who have passed. Yeah.

Honor the folks who showed up there and got in the middle of all that mess. So I'm going to tell you a story. I was working crisis work. So I would be, I was a dean of students by day. And then at night I was working with the local police department. And what we were doing is doing death notifications and all that kind of stuff, you've probably heard me talk about that. So my daughter was two. And for everybody listening, this is a very, very hard story to hear. And so I know that. And I'm being intentional. I'm not trying to be gratuitous here.

Yeah. My daughter was two. And my son was about, I guess he was eight at the time. And like you, I prided myself on how tough I was. And not even that I was that tough, but I could just walk into any situation and see the craziest stuff. And I got a call and it was just a text message on my phone that said, hey, this is what appears to happen.

10-16, looks like somebody's passed away. And we need to show up to the hospital. And so I just knew when I showed up to the hospital, that usually means that my job was going to be sitting with parents or loved ones. And I showed up to the hospital. And so I just knew when I showed up to the hospital, that usually means that my job was going to be sitting with parents or loved ones. And I showed up to the hospital and somebody caught me in the hallway and they said, hey, here's what's happened. There was a daycare and it was in about 45 minutes away in a rural area. And they had 15 kids that they were driving around, um, toddlers, um, and they were driving around and there was two young people that were working at this place and they took the van and

they parked it and, um, they got all the kids out, but they left the two in the back seat. They forgot them and they stayed in that Texas heat. And one of them had passed away already. And when I got there, it was one more on life support. And mom was 19 and dad was 20. And I walked in and here's all I saw. I saw a crowd of people around this little girl. All I saw was her arm. And it was from her elbow to her fingers.

And I'll remember that picture in my head as long as I live. And I had to leave. Yeah. Because that looked like my baby girl's arm. Yeah. I had to get out. Okay? And I felt a lot of shame about that.

I felt embarrassed about that. My partner, Janice, she's one of the greatest women I've ever known. She's incredible. And I looked at her and said, I got to go. And she said, you cannot leave me here. That's 101, right? And I said, I cannot be here. And that happened one other time.

I think I've talked about it on the show. But all I have to say is I had to leave. And it was a visceral body reaction. And here's why I'm telling you that story. I did trauma for a living. Still do. But that one was home. Yeah.

And it's important for you as a growing therapist, as a new counselor, to understand that our job is to wade into other people's messes. And there are seasons when other people need to wade into ours. Yeah. So the greatest gift you can give your professor and your cohort is to say, this has broken me for a season. I'm hurting. And it's not only not going to hurt your professional character and fitness to be a therapist,

it's going to humanize you and give you a different layer. When somebody comes in and says, I'm scared, you're going to be able to go give you a different layer. When somebody comes in and says, I'm scared, you're going to be able to go, yeah, I know. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. And so this is a great gift. What I would tell you as a therapist, you have to have people that you can talk to. Did you grow up in a situation where you needed to just be stoic about stuff? Absolutely. I definitely did. You know, my parents are immigrants and, you know, where they're from, you just don't talk about that kind of stuff. I, you know, I myself have been on the other side of the chair and I've been,

you know, in therapy and I know how healing it can be. And that's why I wanted to become a therapist myself. But I sort of feel like when I entered the profession, maybe Dr. John, you can tell how much of a rookie I am. I almost felt like now I can't be, you know, that client, so to speak. I kind of have to be strong and know it all to be able to survive in this profession, quite frankly. You know, I'm not able to survive in this profession, quite frankly, is, you know, I'm not able to to fall apart at everything. And, you know, we're here to help people through the worst moments of their lives. And for me, it's just. It hurts, like you were saying, I think it's kind of that both and situation. It's just I try and talk to my husband about it, you know, but he's not from Buffalo. I think really only people from there might truly be able to understand how completely painful this is for our city and how disgusting it is on so many levels.

But I do wish that I kind of had an outlet of someone to speak to because I also didn't want to dump on my husband and, you know, have him play therapist to me. That's right. It's been difficult. You are conflating life with your profession. Yeah. And I want you to untangle that. You're hurting.

And this is going to require collective mourning for the city. This is going to require collective grief for our country. This is going to require a lot for our country. This is going to require a lot of grief for you. Yeah. And it doesn't make you not a great professional. This will be something

that you'll make meaning of on the back end. You already want to go be about trauma and now you have a, a, you, your body is telling you

what your clients are going to be telling you for years. Yeah. The idea, I've worked with police officers and SWAT officers and nurses and doctors and surgeons, everyone in between. Counselors, of course. I teach graduate counseling courses.

What I'll tell you is those that bottle this stuff up and think that professionalism looks like, quote unquote, it won't get to me, they end up in ash. Yeah. like, quote unquote, it won't get to me, they end up in ash. So much so that my professor said, if you are a counselor and you do not have somebody to go talk to, we're going to consider that unethical. How in the world can I show up fully for you when I'm not full, when I'm not whole, right? And so I've got to go sit with somebody. And I'll tell you this, one of the greatest moments of, one of the greatest breakthrough moments of my life was sitting with a counselor who I saw him get tears in his eyes as I was talking.

Really? Wow. And I remember, now I've heard of stories of counselors weeping through sessions and their clients are like dude i'm coming to you man you know what i mean but so it didn't it didn't that tear didn't say he's weak that tear showed me he's with me yeah and that's a totally different proposition often when you grow up in a home where showing feelings got you hurt or not even got you hurt we We just don't do that. Yeah. Then you're faced with something.

Then you have a choice and it's really a crossroads here as a human, not as a counselor, as a person. Am I going to be somebody that continues this family generational trauma of bottling stuff up and sucking it up? Or am I going to learn how to be heard and to say I'm sad and to say I'm heartbroken and to weep bitterly and to not sleep for days on end

and have people in your life that you're being open with. I'm going to teach my kids something different. I'm going to teach my clients something different. I'm going to change how this thing works. Do you see what I'm saying? I do. So here's what I want you to do. You may not have done this. Here's the protocol that I would be using if I'm saying? I do. So here's what I want you to do. You may not have done this.

Here's the protocol that I would be using if I'm in your exact shoes. Okay? Yeah. Can I ask you another personal question? Of course. Are you African American? No, but I am a person of color. Okay.

I'm mixed. Yeah. So this is intensely personal. Yeah. Yes. Yes, it is. Because this person came for you. That's your body reacting, okay?

Do not run from this. What happened is terrifying and scary. And if you'd been there, you would have been on the list. Is that fair? Yes, it would have. Okay. Oh, absolutely. That's one of the first things that I thought,

that this is someone that would hate me. Not hate you. Not even knowing me. They would want you not alive. They want you dead. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a different level, right? Yeah. Yeah. I hate the Atlanta Braves. I don't want any of them dead, right? This is another level. And so running from that reality is going, your body will continue

to try to solve for that reality while your mind is trying to distract itself with other things yeah and you'll find a gulf so here's what I want you to do

mm-hmm phew number one you have to be around other people and you have to tell your story full stop

okay that can be one person that can be a professional that can be five people that can be on a group phone call I would rather it be in, but I know you don't live in Buffalo, right? So this is home. I'm thinking of when I wasn't in Houston, we're at my home and all my friends and community and family and Hurricane Harvey hit. And I felt this panic. I was

watching my friends in videos of their houses falling down and we were on the phone. We were talking. I did the best I could and it was still unnerving. And I just let myself be sad for a while. You see what I'm saying? And so I want you to get on the phone and say, I'm not doing okay. I want you to get a meeting with your counseling supervisor and say, this happened. And this is my home. And I even have a one-step relationship away from one of the victims and I'm really hurting.

Tell somebody, tell somebody that's got some important mentor role in your life that, okay? Honor your body that way, okay? And listen, if that person, if your supervisor, if she or he says, well, I don't know, man,

you're going to have to suck it up. Dude, they are cashing out. I mean, they're a terrible, terrible mentor. They're not going to say that though. Yeah. They're going to probably reach across and say, can I hug you?

And hopefully you'll say yes if you feel safe. Yeah. Here's number two. Yeah. I want you to go to Walmart, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, whatever, and get a small journal and start writing this stuff down. Okay. I want you to write down how pissed off you are and raged out and angry you are.

I want you to use the shooter's name. I want you to write down how angry and sad you are and use the victim's names and talk about your friends and your mom's still there and your dad's still there. I want you to be really specific, but I want you to write this stuff down. Okay. And, and when you have a good day, I want you to write that down too. This isn't all about negativity and awfulness. Okay. That's true. Here's the last thing. Yes. Statistically speaking, this is not going to happen again there in Buffalo. I really hope so.

I'm so afraid that it's going to. I know, I know. But so here's what I'm trying to say. Statistically speaking, it's probably not going to happen. But it might. And moving forward in our life, we got to hold that tension. And so the chance you have to go back and visit your home, it's important.

And I've met with students who are immigrants and international students. And when there's a great tragedy, they taught me this. That's why I ended up going back home after Harvey. I had to go be there. Yeah. And I can't explain it. I don't, I don't know any studies.

I had to go put my feet on the ground and look around and say, okay, the sun is still shining here. Yeah. And people are still driving their cars and people are still laughing and the Astros are still losing. Like I have to get, I got to get there. You know what I mean?

And so at some point, as hard as that's going to be, I want you to go home and I want you to hug people real, real tight. And I want you to, if you can, go visit the grocery store. Sure. With, not alone, with, okay? And that's a part of your healing journey.

Put your feet back on the ground in that place where home is, okay? So in another, in a similar but different scenario, I left that hospital that night and I went home. Okay. So in another, in a similar but different scenario. Yes. I left that hospital that night. And I went home. And you don't dare wake up a sleeping two-year-old. Sure.

I mean, I'm going to end up in a morgue from my wife. But I went home and I went and woke my eight-year-old up. Yeah. And he's half asleep. And I hugged him as hard as I could. That was me going home. Okay. And I had to put my hands on him and feel him and say, okay, that's me regulating my body. Okay.

So the three counterpoints here are connection, writing this stuff down, be honest about your thoughts and feelings. It's the central idea of going home. Cause this is you, this isn't about trauma. This is about your home. And here's a fourth one. Make sure you're taking care of your body, move your body. You got to eat. You got to laugh. You still got to be intimate with your husband. If you feel up to it, like you got to do life stuff, okay? Yeah, yeah. But do have a season of mourning. So I tell you all that stuff. I just threw a lot at you.

Tell me how that feels as I'm telling you that. Are you like, oh, my God, you're an idiot, YouTuber? Or is it ringing true? No, it absolutely rings true. And, you know, Dr. John, one of the things that I've shared in my classes, I've also acted as a TA, is what you've taught of periods of life are seasons. I realize that this is a season that I'm going to be sad, but I think the other part of me just feels like I always need to be strong. And it's just, it's difficult.

It's difficult. Let that in today. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. Let that in today. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. Because one day you're going to have a little one, and something bad's going to happen, and you're going to immediately go back to that great stoic,

we just got to suck it up, that your parents taught you. Yeah. And you're going to look at that little kid of yours, and you're going to have a choice. And you can say, the way we deal with pain is to build up a wall. Or the way we deal with pain is to be sad. And so, honey, you get to come see mommy be sad. Come hug me because mommy's really sad because her friend passed away or grandmother is sick or one of your friends.

You see what I'm saying? I want to give the gift to, and then here's where the strength comes in is on the making meaning side. The now what? Okay. So I'm not advocating that we all just go and not do anything. There's a season of grief. And for many of us,

we got to keep going to work because we got bills to pay, right? There's a season of grief grief there's a season of grinding it out and then as the great David Kessler says there's a season of making meaning so who am I going to be because of what I've experienced and what I've been through and that's not for today

okay that's not for today what you'll do is you'll go back and look at your journal after time and you'll start to go oh I just keep circling up because you're going to start writing things and you're going to circle it and you're going to think about it. Because you're going to start writing things and you're going to circle it and you're going to think about it and suddenly you're going to be like, that's who I'm going to be. Yes, yes.

And if I might just add one thing, I think part of what has made this process difficult for me is how profoundly angry I feel. And I think that I'm someone, like it takes a lot for you to rattle me in general, but for me to feel something like rage is very rare. I felt it maybe only a couple of times in my life. Not that there's not things in the world that, you know, we're angry at, of course, but I mean, on a personal level, um, I feel rage and it's, it's maybe not a,

an emotion that I'm not familiar with, you know? And so. And so I, anger is, um, anger simply points your body towards things you care about. Yes. Rage is when that anger becomes trapped and it becomes, um, explosive. Right. And so I want to feel my anger. Anger is good. It's powerful and it's strong. And then I want to do things that are going to honor me and honor my loved ones and honor my community and honor what happens next, right?

Yeah. And so that means I'm going to write this stuff down. I'm going to go for walks. I'm going to take care of my body. I'm going to be open and tell my story and listen to other people tell their stories. I'm going to hug. I'm going to weep. And then I might take another class on trauma. Or I may take another class on

racist idiots who shoot people. Whatever. I'm going to get to the bottom of it. But that's not right now. Right now is just a season to be sad. I need you to hear me say this. You're going to hear me say this. You're going to make an incredible therapist someday. Oh, thank you, Dr. John.

Okay. You are. Thank you. And the more vulnerable and more open you can learn to become in your private life, the better therapist you're going to become down the road. Yeah. Okay. You're so right.

Cool. Same team? Yes, sir. We are. Thank you so much, Dr. John. All right. I am so grateful to have gotten a moment to talk to you. And before we leave, you've noticed on this show, whenever somebody calls and says somebody passed away, the first question I always ask them is, what was their name? And we have a challenge in our culture. We don't like to say names. We like to roll things off or just use flowery language like deceased or whatever. Instead of dead.

Instead of hurt. Instead of anger and rage. And so, as always, I think it's critically important. To say people's names. To say their name. Pearl and Ruth and Andre

and Roberta and Margus and Aaron and Geraldine Celestine Hayward Catherine. We got to do better, guys.

We're going to miss y'all. We're going to do better. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes, and if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves

behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist.

And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, we are back. Let's go to Idaho Falls, Idaho and talk to Andy. What's up, Andy? Not awesome. Not awesome. Oh boy. Well, hey, I'm grateful that you called. I really mean that. So what's up? Okay. Well, my question is, how do we honor our 13-year-old daughter's wishes to not take action against her molester and also do what we feel is right? Oh, boy.

Justice, and I would say a really important follow-up to that is that my husband's anger is so tremendous that I kind of fear him taking action against this person on his own. Like, he's fantasizing about hurting this person. I'm just stuck between a rock and a hard place because I want to take care of my daughter, but I also want to take care of my husband. How are those mutually exclusive? Well, as far as like, she knows, she knew that when she shared this with her counselor, that it would be reported. And at the time there wasn't a name. And so I think she was controlling that, but in the details of,

of what she did share, we figured out who it was and having that information. We're now like, when the officer called us there, they said, do you know who this person is? And the reality is, yeah, we do. We're like, we're not going to lie to the officer. Right. That's wrong. And, but also we've promised our daughter, we wouldn't, we would honor her wishes and not do anything. So I feel like. Yeah. Okay. So like,

I'm going to, I'm going to give it to you straight as an arrow. Okay. I think I was, I was talking to a buddy of mine who's a professor in a med school, teaches counseling classes and her specialty is, is this. And I think it's 280, it's over 200 times someone molests a child

before they're finally caught 200 plus times. And so I'm going to give you the humanitarian answer is your 13 year old does not get to drive this you have to report it full stop i'm going to give you the federal law standard you have to report it not reporting it as a crime you're an adult okay um and you don't have to quote oh no you do have to press charges to move forward you gotta get this this this in this devastating predator off the street and right now it feels like the end of time for your 13 year old. And what she needs is the stability that says, we love you. We're going to walk alongside you. And this is the right thing right now. And so now you're playing a long game. You're playing

a long game of healing. You're playing a long game of love and connection. You're playing a long game of here's how to handle anger and frustration and rage. And you're playing a long game of here's how to handle anger and frustration and rage. And you're playing a long game for her relationship with you. Because you're going to look up, she's going to be 26. And the question is going to be, because there's going to be a trail of kids in this guy's wake. And the question will come back, how could you not have done anything? So this is a full stop, conversation's over.

We're going after a full tilt on this deal. Now, when it comes to your husband, you've actually put me in an awkward position now. Because like an ethical, if I know somebody's considering hurting somebody else, right, then I have to make that call. And so what I would tell you is your husband, I simply

don't buy. I don't because I've been raged out of my mind and I still have a choice. And now it's to a point where it becomes premeditated. So what he's going to choose to do if he chooses to do something stupid, like go beat this guy up or go shoot this guy or whatever. If he does something, he is intentionally choosing to make his daughter's life in more ash than it already is. Because he's choosing to, you know what?

She's already lost her autonomy and she's already lost, she's already been heavily traumatized. I'm going to take her dad away too. Right. And it's a foolish, childish choice. Right. We've had this conversation that

he's made a promise to me that he won't do anything but he's just, he's he just sees black. I got it. Hey, dude, I got a little girl. I totally get it. Yeah. And there's a choice.

Yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean? I'm happy to talk to him too. Have him call a show. But yes, don't take her dad away too. Sure. Don't. Okay?

So the greatest gift you can give her right now is to believe her. And here's where this is messy, okay? Here's where this is messy. I've been through a lot of sexual assault investigations. And what I know is taking away a victim's autonomy, meaning somebody came in and violated them,

their body, their, their values. They, they took from them. They, they took power and control and a piece of them. And then they come report that. And then I will go as the, as the, as the administrator, I go, all right, well, here's how I'm going to handle this. And they say, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I go, nope, this is how I'm doing it. This is the right thing. I can be re-traumatizing because now you're losing control yet again of how this thing ends up. And what I would tell you is there's a difference between working with adult victims and children. And so we wouldn't let our children drive a car. We wouldn't let our children aren't there emotionally. They're not going to make great decisions there,

and so what we're going to do, the most loving, caring thing you're going to do is you're going to say, I'm going to get this person off the street, and I'm going to seek justice for you in the right way, in an appropriate way, in a legal way, and we're going to love and honor you all the way through. Okay, I fear we've handled this poorly from the get-go

because she started freaking out because I know it took a lot of courage to share this. I have to say, we have five daughters. This is like our worst nightmare. We don't do sleepovers. And so my husband feels I failed at the one thing, right. I promise it would never happen to my, my sweet girls, but I know it took a lot of courage for her to share it. And, and then immediately she wants to like, okay, but I don't want to do

anything. I just want to. And, and she, you know, was, was like freaking out and unsettled and all that stuff. And so we promised her that we would not do anything. And so two parallel realities are happening. We're on the narrative with her. It's fine. We're doing what you asked. Giving you power is what we're feeling.

And then the other reality is that we have been talking with officers and we have gotten the name. There is something filed and moving forward. But then where it would have to intersect and make liars out of us or whatever with our daughter is if there is like a forensic interview. And the way that that sounds sounds so traumatizing. Yeah, it's rough, man. So she doesn't want to do any of it. Yeah. So, if I'm you in this situation,

so let me back up a little bit. Your husband didn't fail and you didn't fail and your daughter didn't fail. You got preyed on. Okay? Then the first rattle out of the bag was scary and disaster. And we say things like, I won't say anything.

Will you just tell me what's going on? I promise I won't tell. I need to know what's wrong with you. Are you okay? And they tell you something that you legally, morally have to tell. And now you find yourself in a pickle, right? The single, so what I'm telling you is I'm giving you a pass on that first. I get that.

Something's not right. Tell me, right? And now you found yourself in a mess. The single worst thing that can happen moving forward is your daughter loses trust in you because then she's completely unanchored. She's already lost trust in humanity. She doesn't have those words yet, but she has.

She's lost control. She's lost innocence, all those things, but she's got y'all. And so if I'm you, I'm calling a family meeting ASAP with her and you and your husband, and maybe one or two other people that she trusts, not her own age, but maybe another mentor or two that's a woman or somebody that she trusts,

maybe from church, maybe from school, whatever. Maybe you do this in the school counselor's office, whoever she feels comfortable with. And we're going to say, hey, by law, we have to go forward and say something. And so this isn't a matter of us not doing it. It's a matter of we're doing this and we're going to honor you at the same time and expect an explosion and expect and I hate you and you promised and you're lying to me and whatever.

And the only response that's going to make any sense is I love you and I love you and I love you. Okay? The longer this gap goes, the more explosive it's going to be. The day the police show up at school

and she's got to go to a forensic interview, a sane interview, and those are not pleasant at all. Well, it's probably way too late for a sane interview, but like for a and that's when you go to the hospital and have an exam, but for a forensic interview, man,

yeah, those are really, really tough. Real tough. And they're describing it like it's really non-invasive and they can get a lot of information from, you know, like indirect questions and things like that. Hey, they're gifted. I don't know what's it for us. No, I mean, they're not going to lie to you.

But it's just tough. It's tough. Yeah. And if you're there, it's tough to hear those, your daughter ask those questions. It's tough to ask anybody ask those questions, to think about that, right? Okay. My guess is this. Can I ask you a hard, hard, hard question? It's totally unrelated. Sure. I'm only going to ask you.

I'm just going to pause it. I'm just going to put it out into the world. If you have a house where you get really mad or you get really quiet or dad gets really mad at things, those five girls have learned how to not quote unquote, make mom mad or make dad angry. If you do that, dad's going to get so mad. Or if you say that mom's going to do, put that away. Mom's going to, right. And ultimately that distills down to one important thing. They feel responsible for the emotional regulation of the adults in their life,

and they cannot carry that. So you run that down all the way. She's going to sit in that exam, I mean, I'm sorry, it's not an exam. She's in that forensic interview, and you're going to be talking, or she's going to be talking, and she's going to look over and see you clenched up or see you weeping. And she's going to realize, oh, my job is to make sure mom's okay. And that's not her job. That's your job.

Is that fair? Yeah, it came out in counseling. So she's had crippling anxiety, depression for a couple of years. Obviously, this is really insightful with this coming out. Part of the counselor did say that she was fearful of dad's reaction. It sounds like she should be.

It's his default emotion. He's got to stop. He has to stop. When you say that we can't lose trust with our daughter, that's exactly what, are you saying that it's not necessarily in this? I'm sorry. We said, we promised, but we just can't, this is, we have to do this. And versus like the, the, the long game, like you said, like not showing up for her and saying, sorry, just. No, no, you have to let her know

that you're moving forward with this. She cannot find that out from a police officer or a courtroom. She has to hear that from you guys. And it can, I would open it and be very direct. I told you that I would never tell anybody. And A, legally, I made a statement that I was wrong. I'm not allowed to do this against the law.

Right. And number two, I can't fathom another mom and dad who loves their daughter as much as we love you experiencing this. And so as your mom, and I wouldn't pawn it all off on the legal stuff. I would say as your mom, as your dad, this person has to go to jail. And so we told you we weren't gonna tell, we've had to change our mind. And I know this hurts you.

And I know this makes you feel out of control, but we're doing what's right. That's how I would have that conversation. And then I would stop. I wouldn't just keep babbling. I would just say, this is the reality that we're doing what's right. That's how I would have that conversation. And then I would stop. I wouldn't just keep babbling. I would just say, this is the reality that we're facing now. Facts are our friends.

I said this and I was wrong. This is what's happening now. And what she's going to feel is A, out of control and B, because somebody else is driving now, finally. And dad's got to get his freaking rage under control because she's going to drive those emotions further and further and further into a black hole.

Because she's scared of what he's going to do. And he's got to stop acting like a toddler and act like a grown man. And dude, I have a daughter. I'm getting raged out thinking about this. Okay? It's not a matter of not being angry and not a matter of not being raged out. I'm saying you cannot grow young children in a house where they feel like there's a tiger that can go off at any moment and expect them to have any sort of downstream emotional regulation in their own life. They're going to marry guys like that.

Yeah, I mean, to be fair, obviously, like, he's not reached out, like, in the house. Like, these are moments with me where he's safe and he can tell me how he's feeling and stuff like that. It's been very tender. Yeah, but I'm not saying—no, no, no, I get that. I'm not talking about this one issue. I'm saying overall. Like, you just told me that, no, they're worried about making dad mad. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So, and I know y'all probably told her this, but please reiterate this over and over and over again. Very common that when the police get involved or the counseling gets involved and mom and dad get involved and there's all these things, a 13-year-old can feel like they've done something wrong

because those people usually only get involved when somebody's in trouble. And it's important to reiterate over and over and over again. I don't care if she sent text messages. I don't care if she got in a, somebody else's car and drove to this person's house. I don't care how this thing happened. What happened is not her fault. Full stop, period. Adults are supposed to be adults. And she needs to constantly be reminded, constantly be reminded that you love her, that you love her, that you love her.

This is not her fault. So I'll leave you with this on a very different situation, but what I think is a applicable, um, response. Um, there's some stuff that went on at school and my daughter got in trouble. She's six, right? So it's not like crazy stuff. It was enough that my wife called me during the day, which is super, super rare. Um, so I got home, I thought about it all the way home, all the way home, all the way home. I thought about it.

I thought about it. I thought about it. And I got home and she came and meet me at the door like she always does. And I said, hey, I need you to come in my room. And her body immediately dropped. Her shoulders dropped. And she knew, oh, I'm in trouble.

And she came in my room and I shut the door and I sat down on my bed and she stood in front of me so we were eye level and I said did we have a hard day at school today and she looked at the floor and said yeah daddy I did and I put her face in my hands and I said I need you to hear me say this every day I thank God that

he let me be your daddy every day I thank God that of all the daughters in the world I could have got I got you and I love you and I gave her a hug and she's been alive for six years

and the hug I got back is the single greatest hug I think I've ever received in my life. And then I let go and she didn't. So I started, I re-embraced. And we just sat there. And we sat there and we sat there. There is a time for accountability

and there's a time for frustration, there's a time for peace and there's a time for frustration. There's time for peace and there's a time for all the things, but there's never not a time for our kids not to know I'm in your corner and I love you. And this little 13 year old girl needs to know mom and dad are in control. They said some things out of the gate. They got to walk that back. That's life. Things happen and things change. But when things happen and things change,

we're going to look in the eye and we're going to tell you the truth. And then we're going to be about protecting you and our community. We're going to do hard things. And this is not your fault. And we thank God every day that we get to be your mommy and daddy. I know this is tough, tough season, Andy. And I'm so, so sorry. Please, please, you and your husband, find somebody that you can talk to about this. Please go get a professional ASAP. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. It was a heavy show today.

Good folks, thank y'all for sticking with us and for riding all the way to the end here. This is one of those shows that, I don't know, the whole song at the end thing doesn't always feel right. And one time I didn't do it, and somebody wrote me a nice note that just said, hey, man, the song lyrics at the end of the show helped me exhale and process what happened and go, whew. And so I'm not going to not do them. Kelly brought these in

and I think they're phenomenal. It's the great Bill Withers and he writes, song's called Lean On Me and it goes like this. Sometimes in our lives all have pain we all have sorrow but if we're wise we'll know there's always tomorrow lean on me when you're not strong i'll be your friend and i'll help you carry on for it won't be long till i'm gonna need somebody to lean on please swallow your pride if i have things you need to borrow for no one can fill those of your needs that you won't let show. You can just call on me, brother. When you need a hand,

we all need somebody to lean on. I just might have a problem that you'll understand. We all need somebody to lean on. That's the purpose of this show. We all need somebody. We'll see you soon. Coming up on the next episode.

We just had a fire like three weeks ago. I have a 15-month-old and a five-month-old, and I also work. So how do I deal with life? Your whole life is on fire. What's your favorite band? I don't have one. I listen to a lot of music, so I don't have a favorite. So you're a serial killer.

That's good. You know, of all the people that have hurt me the most, it's kind of been her. How has she hurt you, Casey? Well, she's tried leaving twice, puts the kids, you know, over me ever since the first kid was born. It sounds like she has no interest in helping meet your needs.