The Dr. John Delony Show - Grieving the Death of Our Young Child

Episode Date: September 13, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode John wishes his brother a happy belated birthday We recently lost our 14-month-old daughter to a drowning accident. We have two other kids and I'm 7 months pregnant. How do I grieve and not be bitter with the new baby? Finding Meaning: The Sixth Stage of Grief - David Kessler My boyfriend’s parents still have pictures of his ex-wife on their social media and at their home. I’ve been working from home for over a year and I feel like I have started treating my wife like a co-worker/office manager. Lyrics of the Day: "I'll Think of a Reason Later" - Lee Ann Womack   As heard on this episode:  BetterHelp dreamcloudsleep.com/delony Conversation Starters Redefining Anxiety John's Free Guided Meditation Ramsey+   tags: grief, parenting, kids, anger/resentment/bitterness, disagreement/conflict, technology/social media, marriage, workplace/career   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk to an awesome mom who recently lost a toddler and she's pregnant, dealing with grief and guilt. We talk to a woman whose soon-to-be in-laws won't take the pictures down of the ex. We talk to a guy who just wants to get the romance back in his marriage. Stay tuned. Hey, good morning, everybody, or good afternoon, or good evening, or good night. I hope you're doing well. This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. James started cranking music up. I still have my keys on my desk. We're just showing up here, but James is ready to go go and that means we are too so glad that you're with us

talking about mental health, relationships challenges, tragedies good stuff, anything that's going on in your life and man we've got a lot going on in our lives, all of us and so I'm here to walk with you if you want to be on the show give me a call at 1-844-693-3291

that's 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. Hey, James Kelly, I'm going to call an audible here, okay? How do I do this? How do I call out here? I'm going to call somebody. All this technology. Hello? Scott.

John. Did I wake you up before you were normally awake? No. You sound like you're asleep. That's just because I have a mainly deep voice in the morning. I strongly disagree.

Hey, listen. Two things. Number one, you're live on the show, so don't say anything bad. Oh. Number two, dude, yesterday was your birthday, and I have a show where I teach people how to be good family members,

and I missed your birthday like a scumbag loser. And so, I just want to tell you good morning and happy birthday yesterday. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

You're a great brother, and I kind of suck. And, hey, listen, yesterday I was on the show with Dave, and somebody was just talking about what a great big brother they had, and I felt

bad for you, because I kind of sucked at it. But I'm getting better, and it starts today. So next year, I won't miss your birthday. But, dude, happy birthday. What did you all do last night? I appreciate it. getting better and it starts today right so next year i won't miss your birthday but dude happy birthday what'd y'all do last night i appreciate it uh what did we do last night oh brandy joe had to go to a sorority thing she was sponsored so we celebrated my birthday on tuesday night probably something we shouldn't talk about on the show though right there's there's the happy parts like that and then had a nice dinner and since I'm your brother,

we got pedicures. It was great. You got a pedicure? Heck yeah, I did. I'm sorry. There seems to be a disconnection in the line. I can't hear you. Hey, you know what, dude?

Whatever works, man. Whatever works. But congratulations. Happy birthday, man. It's awesome. Good morning. I appreciate it. I'm glad.

I don't feel so bad that your wife skipped it to go to a sorority event or whatever that is. But good for you, man. Hey, happy birthday. I'm glad you're my brother, brother. Thank you. See you, dude. Appreciate it. Bye.

Bye-bye. Well, that's it. Pedicures, huh? He has a manly deep voice. He can afford to get Pedicures, huh? He has a mainly deep voice He can afford to get pedicures He is bigger than me Like 2X I would have paid money to see him getting a pedicure

I think we should all go get pedicures Let's go do that I am totally on board with that Alright, good, that's what the show's doing Everyone back there, we're all going to go do this soon Especially Zach, Zach's going first We're going to go do this, it's going to be awesome Alright, so happy birthday And everyone back there, we're all going to go do this soon, especially Zach. Zach's going first. We're going to go do this. It's going to be awesome.

All right. So happy birthday. And by the way, way to go, Deloney, the guy telling everybody how to have good mental health and relationships and friendships. Me and James were at band practice with our metal band, and I didn't even call my little brother until I'm happy birthday. What an idiot. But we fixed it today. So there we go. All right. Let's go to Tynan in Kansas City, Kansas.

Hey, Tynan, how are you? I'm doing well. How about yourself? We are rocking and rolling. So what in the world's going on? How can I help? Yes. So the reason I called is we lost our 14-month-old daughter

earlier this month in a drowning incident. Oh, golly. Yeah, hardest days of our lives. We lost our 14-month-old daughter earlier this month in a drowning incident. Oh, golly. Yeah, hardest days of our lives. Absolutely. You're still in the middle of them. We are. Yeah. We definitely are.

Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Were you there? Yes, I was. My husband was not. He had to travel a couple hours to get to us. Oh, man. I'm so, so sorry.

Well, thank you. Thank you. So we have two older kids, a four-and-a-half-year-old and a three-year-old, and then we have a new baby due in six weeks. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So my question for you is— So you're super, super pregnant right now.

Yeah. Baby's due at the end of October. It'll be here anytime. That laugh that you just gave was not a funny laugh. It was a happening laugh, right? Yes. This is life. Yeah.

For sure. It's the guy at the bar that realizes, oh, we're getting in a fist fight and he smiles. That's what you just did. So in six weeks, you're having another baby, right? Another baby. Wow. Okay. Can I ask you something real, I mean, we're in a personal conversation here.

Yeah, go for it. You sound incredibly detached. Is that where you've had to park for the last couple of weeks? Yes and no. Um, you know, yeah. After the incident, um, you know, our daughter fought really hard for a week. So we were in the PICU for a week and, um, yeah, I was very frustrated, um, that I was pregnant because I wanted all of my energy and stuff to be, you know, for her. Um, and it was hard to take care of my energy and stuff to be, you know, for her.

And it was hard to take care of myself and this baby during that. And then, yeah, and then we lost her and, you know, and then the weeks have gone on. And yeah, yeah, it's yeah. So I guess my question through that is, how are we supposed to navigate through the grief and the guilt in a way that also allows us to fully experience the joy of bringing another new life into this world? From our previous kids, we know it's going to be amazing, but at the same time, we just have this profound sadness that makes it seem like this is going to be a bittersweet miracle. Yeah, it is. Yeah. One of the things that you're putting on yourself right now is a right way to do this. And you've got a picture of what your other three births were,

that joy and the chaos and the laughter and the late nights and all that stuff. But there's that underneath, that foundational sense of joy and connection, and this is our family. And you're imposing that on this situation. It's a totally different situation. Yeah. And one of the cornerstones of grief that melts people is expectation on how it's supposed to go. Yeah, and that's the hardest thing.

It is. It's so hard. And so for you letting go of this idea that you're gonna be stealing from this new kid. You're not. This baby's gonna be loved so unimaginably deep. And this baby was born in the back end of a pandemic. Just was, right? This baby was born in the middle of the darkest moments

of his or her parents' entire life. And that's just a reality for this kid. Does that mean your kid's gonna be loved less? No. Does that mean mom and dad are gonna sometimes have to hand the baby off and go weep on all fours in their room alone? Yes, it does.

And so what you and your husband have to do is let go of the, it should be like this and experience the, it is like this. And then you've got to be extra intentional about having people around you. They're going to walk with you through this season because it's going to be different. It's going to be hard. Yeah. And that's been the hardest thing for us is being vulnerable to letting other people help us. We have been blessed with amazing family, friends, and a small community.

And that is definitely the hardest part is being vulnerable. So my guess is your ability to talk with me right now and articulate things the way you are, lets me know that you are still fully in fight or flight. You're still gunning. Does that make sense? Yeah. And it could be because you're pregnant. It could be you have two little ones and you don't have time because they've got to eat

and have their diapers changed and they got to get to where they got to get. And husband's still got to go earn a living, all those things, right? Yeah. You must make space for this because it'll come for you, okay? Yeah. And that's not a bad thing. That's a good thing.

That's how we're designed. But you've, that's, so here's a couple of things. Let me back out a little bit. Okay. You will, over time, be able to pull apart the grief from the guilt. Okay? What I don't want you to do is to add any more guilt in the future than what you're already carrying. Does that make sense?

Okay. So you're going to try not to. Easier said than done. Of course it is. So here's what's really important is making sure you've got a daily journaling practice where you're writing these things down. And what that does is it keeps them from settling in, for lack of better terms of this analogy,

it keeps them from settling in your backpack and becoming part of you, okay? Okay. And so having a steady flow, if you and your husband are able to do this together, it's really great as you read these out loud. And there's something profound. Grief demands a witness.

And so this often wrecks families. And here's why. Because there becomes this, I need you just to be done with this. Or why are you still worried about this? Or he grieves like this and you grieve like that. And it's the expectation on how we should be grieving and what we should be doing by now. And it's been four months or it's been two years

or it's been whatever, or we're taking the pictures off the wall. No, we're not. And there's not space for people to grieve on their own, but you don't grieve alone. You grieve together. You just do it differently. And so the way you do that is

checking in with one another and just being gracious with space because everybody does it different. Does that make sense? Yep. That makes sense. And so it's less about, we need to do these things and more about 30 minutes every day. We're going to check in with one another. All kids are out. We're not going to be around their kids. And even if that means we're going to have to get a neighbor to come over for an hour an evening and just let us have some space. And we're going to look at each other in the eyes and say, where are you?

And they're going to say, I'm okay. And then there's going to be seasons where you feel guilty because you don't feel bad that day, right? Yeah. Or you're going to have days that you wake up and you're running around with two kids and you go into appointment and then you didn't think about your baby that passed.

And then you're going to all of a sudden be overwhelmed with guilt and what kind of mom am I? Those are things you got to write down and process with somebody. Okay? Okay. And over time, that grief and guilt will pull apart. So I knew this call was coming and I called a close buddy of mine who's a licensed therapist who also experienced something similar. And, um, he gave me some really great, um, insight and happened to be pregnant in the very, very similar. He wasn't pregnant. Obviously his wife was, but

they were going through the same thing. Yeah. One of the things he strongly recommended is to let you know that this baby will not be a replacement. This isn't going to be an instead of, and it might feel like that way right now. Once you hold this baby, you'll know that they're not. Yeah. And he strongly recommended keeping pictures up. I asked him, I said, do you still have pictures up? And he actually took a picture of the wall with all his kids' photos. And he's got the picture of his youngest still there and they celebrate birthdays. So it just becomes the rhythm of your family, right? And there's not a right or way to do this. That's the key there. Okay. Being sober, whether you put up stockings at Christmas, whether you set a place at Thanksgiving

and everybody writes a letter and puts it in her stocking or puts it, you know, whatever those things are, it will become a rhythm of your family. And it's the things that don't keep you from not crying. That's not the point. The point is that we honor and love, right? Yes. How's husband doing? He's, he's doing pretty good. Um, yeah, we have my four and a half year old. We have happy, sad days where parts of our days are happy and parts of our days are sad. And that is just so true. So can I tell you a greatest, greatest, greatest gift you can give your kids? Yes, please do. Is letting them see you be sad. Yes. Letting them see you grieve. If you all decide, hey, we're going to draw a picture.

What was the baby who's passed away? What was her name? Her name was Clara. Yeah. They draw a picture for Clara. They write a note to Clara. Even if you write maybe an elevated note to Clara and you read it to them and let them know that you really miss Clara. And it shows them that it's okay that they miss Clara.

You know what I mean? And when you, next time the kids are going to go swimming and your heart rate takes off, you can hold their hands and tell them, hey, mommy's nervous because I miss Clara. And they'll get that and they won't feel crazy. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes total sense, yeah. The tendency is to hide our feelings because we don't want to scare our little kids.

And what it does is it makes them feel terrified of their own feelings because they're scared too. Yeah, yeah. And if dad cries and he can hold your two little ones and the brand new baby, all of it, right? I'm heartbroken for you. Thank you. Thank you. We, yeah, we, we miss her terribly, but we also have a hundred percent confidence that she is healed and she's whole and she is perfect in heaven and we will, we will see her again. It doesn't take away the pain of missing her down here, but that's the confidence we can have right now.

So one of the great demons of these seasons that I've seen over and over and over is a lot of really well-meaning people say the worst things. And you get flooded with dumb books and internet links and blah, blah, blah. Okay. So I don't want to pile up on that. I do want to recommend you and your husband pick up a book called Finding Meaning by David Kessler. Okay. And he is the world's renowned grief expert. It's the single greatest book. My career has been in grief. And this is the greatest book I've ever read.

And what makes it beautiful and unique is he's the top scientist in the world when it comes to grief. And then he lost his son. And the narrative that weaves through the book is I wanted to go back and hug every parent I ever sat with because I didn't get it. And now I do. And the book is a masterpiece on walking through things like when those images pop back in your head and you think they're going to take, take, you know, take over. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And here's how you do that. Here's how you move on. Here's how you can let those things go. And here's how you don't become captive by those, by those thoughts that pop in your head or those pictures that pop in your head, or I can't get this one particular scene out of my mind, or your heart just starts raising those kinds of things. Um, it's a masterpiece walking through, um, each

one of those situations. And I think you and your husband should read it together and, um, when you're ready and it could be a really shapeshifter for your family. Awesome. We will definitely do that then. Cool. So I want to tell you, it's a blessing to talk to you. You're a gift. And so many people out there deal with grief in such deep and profound ways. And I'm grateful that you shared your story with us. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate your advice. I really do. Well, we'll be thinking about you, please, when your new baby, what's, girl or boy coming? Surprise.

Surprise. Do you have a name yet? Because John is amazing. I'll let my husband know. He's really big into names, so I'll let him know. I just think John's a great name. That's all I'm saying. James, terrible name.

Do not name James, but John might be a great name. That's all I'm saying. James, terrible name. Do not name James, but John might be a great name. That's all I'm saying. And when the surprise is born, if you will send us a photo, let us know, and we will be cheering you on. Okay, I will do that. Awesome. Hey, thank you so, so much for the call. Thank you for your vulnerability. You've got millions of people thinking about you guys, and we're grateful for the call.

Hey, we'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney show. This show is sponsored by better help. All right. October is the season for wearing costumes and masks. And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Brad Pitt in fight club era, because I mean, we pretty much have the same upper body, but whatever. All right, look, it's costume season. And let's be honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind costumes and masks more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social setting. We do this around our families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a

therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with yourself, and you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic, direct life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule.

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That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Diloni. All right, we are back. Hey, real quick, before we go to the next call, I want to circle back to that last call. I think this is important to note. Everybody does grief different. And some people buckle down and go to therapy right away and they get a trauma counselor and they surround themselves with friends and they're vulnerable. Some people lock it down. Some people have two little kids and another child on the way and they detach completely and they are they i've got to go

through the motions almost become robotic if you will and some people become inconsolable and i can't move right all that to say is this a lot of people we we assume that oh he hasn't cried yet he's not dealing with this maybe maybe oh maybe. Oh, she has turned into, she's able to speak very clearly and robotically. She's not handling this well. Maybe. One of the worst things we can do when we're trying to love people who are grieving is to tell them that it looks like this. It looks like that. You know, it's been four months. Y'all should go ahead and get rid of all the clothes. You still have pictures up.

You should, it's the idea of you should. You should. The only shoulds that should happen when somebody's in the throes of grief is that they've got to have people around them. They got to eat. And to the best that they're able to, they've got to sleep and move their body. And so when I show up in situations like this, when I have friends who are going through deep, deep grief, we celebrate little wins.

A friend of mine just posted today, just went and got a car after she lost a loved one in a car wreck. That was a big deal to go buy her first car and a car that's going to keep her and her family safe. So there's these little wins, man, and you cheer the crap out of those because they're huge and they're milestones and they're things that most people just blow by. You'll hear me always say, hey, are you eating?

Are you going to bed? Are you just mindlessly scrolling? Is somebody coming over to sit with you, whoever they happen to be, someone mowing your yard, right? Other than that, there's just not a right or wrong way to do this. If you've got somebody who is constantly looping on, I can't get that picture out of my head. My son passed away and I just keep picturing him here, picturing him here, picturing him here.

A trauma counselor can help with that. That's not always your deal. Sometimes it's just to hold their hand, give them a hug, say, I'm so, so sorry. But it's this idea of imposing should, should, should. And as people who love other people who are hurting, let's keep our shoulds to a minimum and let's just show up. We don't do good as a society with silence. Let's just show up. Okay. I'm just so honored to have been able to speak to her. And her family's got a long, long road ahead. A long road. And they're going to need people just to sit with them and say, hey, we love you. Come and bring in Casserole.

All right, let's go to Alicia in Los Angeles. Hey, Alicia, what's going on? Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a huge fan. Thank you for calling. I'm a huge fan of you. Of you.

Oh, my gosh. So what's up? How's it going? It's going okay. So my 31-year-old boyfriend was previously married. And I'm wondering how to navigate, I guess, conversations and expectations about his old wedding photos and photos with his ex, which are still fairly prominent on social media and a little bit here and there.

He's taken them down, but just all over, you know, family and friends. And it's not just, you know, if you do a deep dive, you can find photos of anything. I mean, Dave Ramsey says that Facebook is the devil, but I mean, it's right there when you click on it. So regarding his mom and his dad. Does he have kids? No, no kids. Okay. Oh, so his parents still have these photos up.

Correct. Okay. Does he still have photos up in his house? He's got one framed collage with her in it. You know, they were high school sweethearts, so they've got over 10 years of history.

And I'm fine with, you know, a prom photo of your ex-girlfriend, but I feel like in this case, that's his ex-wife. So for me, it impacts me

a little bit more. Oh, Leisha, you're not going to like my answer. Okay. Here's the thing. Let's the thing. I can do one of two things. I can super lie to you and it would be way more fun for me. Or I can just tell you the truth. Which one do you want? Absolutely the truth. Okay. So how long have you been dating this

dude? A year, but we recently went ring shopping. Oh, gross. Okay. It's very serious. So you went ring shopping. Mm-hmm. Ugh. Okay, so you say, like, you look him in the eye, and you get all, like, fluttery, and you say, I love you, and things like that. Y'all are there. Yes, we are there, uh-huh. And is he the one you're choosing?

Absolutely, mm-hmm. Okay, so you're in on this dude. I am. Okay. Okay, so you're in on this, dude. I am. Okay, so I'm trying to be nice because you sound so lovely. Here's the thing. You're marrying her too, and she's a part of his life. She's his high school sweetheart. She was his wife. They've got a decade in together.

And one of the things that's going to be so tempting and so frustrating is that you're going to always know that she has 10 more years with him than you do. And you're going to have to let that go. Or you're going to drown the relationship in in competition a competition you can't catch up with your job isn't to be the a better wife or the better one or the prettier one or the one who like that when you when you're when you try to get into that lane you put him in a situation that he can't possibly win. You force his family into this weird thing. My guess is one of two things. Either he screwed up and they still like her. My parents like my wife more than me. There is no question about that. Right. And my mom has even said as such, like, just, just so we're all clear, if i ever left my wife she's able to go stay with them i am

not like so we've had that conversation that will fade over time right so who knows what's in their heart and head if they're making a move if this is like a middle finger to you or they're just 111 years old they don't know how to take old photos like what you know what i mean like some some parents aren't that savvy if they they're not... They are not. Okay. So they are not fans of her whatsoever. She decided to end the marriage kind of shortly in due to differences in finances

and not wanting to start a family with him. Okay. So to them, she broke his heart and we've talked about it many times. So they're, they're not huge fans. So I'm just a little perplexed as to why, okay, why, when I click on it, that's like the first thing that pops up still, I think it's more because they're a little more archaic and haven't gotten to updating the photos. So as a person, my wife tells me all the time, like I was born in the wrong century.

So the last thing I would think to do is to go change a photo on the internets. That's just me. And so what I would do if I was you is let the imaginary internet world be the imaginary internet world. Who cares? Okay. And if it makes you nutty, don't click on it. Don't go to their pages. And at some point when you're engaged or you're married and they say, why don't you ever comment on our post? You could say, Oh gosh, cause that girl's still on there.

I don't want to see her. And you can laugh about it and they'll go, Oh my goodness. Does that make sense? It's, it's the spirit you're going to bring to this thing. And it is this, she is a part of his life forever.

She is. And you've a part of his life forever. She is. And you've got to be okay with that. And she's not a part of, she is not his wife anymore. You're going to be. And so you've got to rest in that assurance that he picked you. Ugh, y'all are ring shopping. He picked you. Well, you won.

You won. Okay? Does that make sense? That makes sense. And you cannot compete against her. That's not an event. That's something that's just going to make you nuts and make him nuts. Does that make sense?

Oh, yeah. And it has been. Spot on. Here's a cool thing you can do. Two things. Number one, take this poor little boy like I did that, he's not he's a grown old 31 year old man

take him out to dinner and say I have been trying to size myself up against your ex-wife I'm not doing that anymore, I love you and we're into this thing and I know that and he's gonna be weirded out he's gonna have moments when he thinks you're just to break his heart because it's already happened to him. He's going to have moments when he misses her.

He's going to have moments where there's a 10-year-old inside joke that he's going to lean over to tell you and realize, oh, you don't know that joke. Because they went to high school together. Does that make sense? And you've got to go, it's not about me because he loves me and I'm his husband. And spending time trying to go back and scorcher the race to all that is just going to melt the guy. Right? Okay. This is going to be tough, but you're going to have to be a grown-up about it.

You're marrying a guy that's divorced. So you're marrying all of him. And he's probably going to be an amazing husband because he knows what heartbreak feels like and he knows what attention feels like. Is that fair? That is fair, yes. Yeah. So can you do that?

Oh, I told you two things. Number one, is take him out and say, dude, I've been competing and I'm sorry and I'm going to stop doing that. I'm just going to stop bringing her out. And the second thing is this. I want you to write down on a piece of paper

the things you feel in competition with her about. Okay? She's pretty. She's hilarious. She was really smart. She had a good job. She made a bajillion dollars. She, whatever.

Whatever, when you line yourself up, because I know you do that. I still do that to my wife's old boyfriends and we've been together like 25 years I mean still happens and by the way here's how I know my wife and I have talked about I had a girlfriend in high school that is still a close friend to this day and she

said for the rest of my life she will always have five years on me does that make sense we've been married almost two decades and it's that little thing in the back she's just like she's got five years on me. And of course, it's one of those half jokes, but half kind of true too. And so here's what I want you to do. I want you to write down the things you compare.

And I want you to put them in a piece of paper. And I want you to mail them to me. And when you put them in the mail, that is you saying, I'm done. I'm letting it go. I'm finished with it. Okay. Okay. It's going to be a process that you do. And if you want to get a girlfriend together and y'all do it together

and y'all can be mean and ugly and all those things, whatever, whatever you need to do, write it down and mail it to me and just say, I'm putting it down. I'm done. I'm setting it down. Is that fair? Okay. Yes, I will definitely do that. If you don't think you can not compete with her, don't marry this boy. Okay. Because you're going to make yourself miserable. You're going to make him miserable. And your chance of success for your relationship is going to be very low. Okay.

Okay. Okay, now I'm going to tell you the other answer. Okay? The lie answer. Let's hear it. Now that we got that one out of the way forget her dude you should call her and just be like you ruined it and I've got him like do that is that cool

I don't have a good go girl speech like in my heart but that was the best I could do have you talked to her no no I've never I've never. We ran into her once coincidentally on her birthday in the city that they grew up in. Did you size her up immediately?

No, I didn't. I didn't know it was her. I was very confused. Yeah. Yes, you did. You knew right away. You knew instantly because he went, uh, uh, uh, uh. She was in a group, so I didn't see her right away.

It was on the water. Yeah, we were out on the water. And anyway, it was a very awkward situation. So here's what I want you to do. As much as you can, as soon as you feel awkward, lean into it. Lean into it and laugh. Even if it's awkward and you look at him and go, that's awkward.

Or at some point he may call you the wrong name. Go, well, that was awkward, weirdo. Does that make sense? Has that happened? Yeah. No, not yet. Not yet. Oh, you are so geared up for war. Let it go.

Let it go. You won. You won. You up for war. Let it go. Let it go. You won. You won. You won. Okay. You're marrying him. He chose you. You won.

Let her go. Let her go. There's something when you're working through anxiety, there's one of the things we do sometimes when working with folks who have phobias is this progressive desensitization. Let's say someone's got a phobia about snakes. They may have you draw a picture of a snake with a crayon. You're just trying to put you in this position. Ultimately, we're going to show you a picture of a snake and feel your body. Then we're going to show you a video of a snake. feel your body. And then we're going to show you a video of a snake.

I want you to feel your body. Is your heart rate racing? We're going to do this over and over again until you can see a video of a snake and your heart rate doesn't take off on you. Ultimately, this leads to you're going to hold a snake. We're going to take you to the zoo. We're going to give you one, right? We're going to get over this phobia. So maybe you do that with a friend.

Maybe you get a picture of her and you just see it. And then you get all fired up and angry. And then over time, eventually, you're just like, whatever. Yeah, she's part of his past. She's part of his past. But he's lucky to have you. He's lucky to have you. Just, hey, put him in the mail.

Put him in the mail and send him to me. I can't wait to get him. Hey, she is right that Facebook is the devil. Absolutely. Yeah, and by the way, don't go on your loved one's parents' Facebook page. That should just be a rule. I'm going to put that on a John Deloney t-shirt. Don't go to your husband or wife's parents' Facebook page.

The only thing that's going to be on that stuff is sadness and like weird conspiracy theory links and stuff like that. So yeah, stay away. Good call. Good call. Hey, we'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney show. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back. Let's take one more call. Let's go to Aaron in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Or Sioux Falls, as they say.

Nobody says that, actually. What's up, Aaron? How are you, man? Hey, I'm good, Dr. D. How are you? Outstanding. So what's up, brother? How can I help, man?

Well, okay. So here's my thing. I've been working from home for about 18 months now. What do you do for a living? I'm a software engineer. Excellent. Okay, so you've been engineering from the house. Do you have a cool setup, or are you on top of a washing machine or something?

I actually started in a cleared-off desk in my bedroom, and then we finally moved me into an office. Well, a room. Very cool. Very cool. All right, man. So you're working from home, 18 months, software engineer. You've got your own fancy home office.

What's up? I like it a lot, but just the last couple, especially, I feel like I'm starting to fall into this trap where I'm treating my wife more like a coworker or a business partner, unless like my spouse and lover. And it, I don't know. I, I, I feel like I used to have these nice clear delineations of, I go to work, I'm at work, I come home, I come home, and now I don't really have any boundaries because it all happens under the same roof all the time. Yeah. So give me an example of the way things used to be and what caused you, what happened that caused you to caused you to call to realize, dude, I got a problem. Uh, like used to be like when I went out and had a commute or, um, I mean, I think one of the things really recently that was kind of a blow up between my wife and me, um, was, you know,

sometimes when I had an office, like I, you know, need to schedule something with a, with a financial advisor or something and just be, Oh, okay, well, you know, swing by, we'll grab a break room or it'd be somebody in house and, you, and we'll grab a break room for 15 minutes and have a chat. And I did that recently, and this is on me, I'm stupid. But I scheduled a quick meet with a financial advisor at the house and forgot to tell my wife. Ah, gotcha. This was not good. So it sounds like an honest, simple mistake,

and you're beating yourself up over it. Is this the 15th time this has happened, and she's asked you to not do that, or is she sick of you? Like, that seems rather benign. Tell me how it's not. I mean, this specifically was the first time this had happened, but I think it's more just, I don't know. Sometimes I like, I don't know if this may even make sense.

Like, I mean, we've been married for 19 years. Okay. Um, and little ones. We do. Some of them aren't so little anymore, but yeah, we've been married for 19 years. Okay. You got little ones? We do. Some of them aren't so little anymore. But yeah, we've got five kids. Whoa! Yeah. And she's great.

She's been a stay-at-home mom since the first one was born almost 16 years ago. And we homeschool. Oh my gosh. And you know, so she's fantastic at that. And sometimes it feels like just running the house as a business unto itself. Yeah. Um, but I don't know. It, it, it feels like it was easier when I went off to work to come home and be like, there's my lovely wife, there's my lover. And now it's kind of like, I see you every day, all the time. And I'm not sure if you're my wife or my coworker who's kind of getting on my nerves and I can't get away from anymore. And I know I'm sure I'm doing the same. I know I'm doing the same thing to her.

I'm a guy. I annoy her and I don't even think about it. I don't even realize it. So number one, thank you for calling for real. I know this is not an easy call and I'm going to stereotype you, but it's probably an even more complex call for a software engineer who's used to being in their head and architecting things.

It's not even a word. And having to navigate these family relationships all day every day is just new. And I want you to rest in that millions and millions of people are dealing with this right now. Everybody, you know, was cool to work from home and to do these meetings from my bedroom and to wear sweats during whatever. And we're starting to see folks desperate to get back to the office just for the routine, the separation, the different types of relationships, all those things you're talking about experiencing.

And not everybody's going to be able to go back or something's going to be part-time back. And so all I have to say is you're in a situation that a bajillion other people are in, and I applaud you for having the courage to call, okay? So there is a ton going on at your house. Is that right? Yeah, that's...

Five homeschooled kids is 5X laundry plus 5X learning things plus 5X people on the internet plus 5X dishes, all that stuff, right? Yep. And when you leave and go to work, you are right. Your wife's the CEO of the house. She's running stuff, right? And you're not there to help. And so she knows her roles are clearly defined, as you all have agreed on them, and your roles are clearly defined.

And when everybody's here, it gets all mushed up, right? And so there's two things I think are important here. Number one, there is a direct inverse correlation between safety and desire, safety and romance, familiarity and desire, okay? And what happens when you go to work and you come home, even if it's a tiny bit, there's some mystery there. That's that, there she is. And that's when you walk in the door and she looks at you and goes, there he is, right? There's a little bit of mystery there. What's been going on?

Who's been checking him out? What's she been doing? There's that, it adds some spice, if you will. And then when you are in the same routine, he's gonna be wearing this and talking about that in the same coffee cup, in the same spot, in the same routine, he's going to be wearing this and talking about that in the same coffee cup, in the same spot, in the same sink. Man, there is no room for mystery, and there's no room for desire. And so it sounds bananas.

And by the way, put five kids on top of this, trying to parent during a pandemic. Five kids plus you worried about your job and the market and, and, and. And then on top of that put, it's hard to find room for romance with five kids and 20 years of marriage anyway, right? All that stuff's there. Have you guys stepped away and just said, where are we? Done a State of the Union of Aaron and your wife's marriage. Have you all done that? No, we really haven't. Okay. You deserve that and she deserves that.

How old are your kids? Almost 16, 14, 12, 10, and just about 8 okay I think they are old enough if I mean obviously you guys do what you need to do but they're old enough that y'all can get away for a weekend and it's not a hey we're gonna get away and we're just gonna try

to rekindle old romance and I'm gonna put on some candles and a song that I like and see if we can make out. That might happen. Hopefully it does, but it's bigger than that. This is a State of the Union, how are we doing? I miss you. All of a sudden, this work from home that started

was just going to be 30 days to flatten the curve, turned into four months, turned into nine months. Now it's 18 months later. And there's something about just hitting pause, turning all the lights on and being like, hey, what's up? I miss you. Let's be open with one another. And it gives both of you an opportunity to talk. And it starts with, I miss you. And I know that I'm not being the guy that I want to be. I know that if I'm so impressed with the work you're doing around here

and running the ship, but you and I are becoming coworkers and I want to get the romance back and I want to get the desire back. And that leads me to number two, you guys have to practice desire. And so one of the things you've, I don't know if you listen to the show very often,

but I always talk about the analogy that I've just beat to death over and over is the Twin Towers. Twin Towers got hit by those planes and they fell down. We couldn't sweep up all that glass and all that metal and all that steel and recreate those towers. They were gone. What had to happen is everything had to be excavated. Call in an architect, call an engineering firm, and we had to rebuild something new, something that's actually stronger.

Some would say it's more beautiful and there's a monument to what was, but we're going to build something new. That's what y'all guys get to do now. Because what was is different. What was is gone. It used to be dad went to work. He doesn't do that anymore.

Now he's here. And it would give her an opportunity to speak into, I really would love this, right? I really would love that. Here's a simple solution for if you need to have meetings at the house. And it's you saying, I'm so stupid. And her going, no, it wasn't that. It's that I mentioned this three times and you didn't hear me. Does that make sense? So what you're doing is you're saying, hey, we're going to excavate everything that was. Up until now, we had this type of marriage. Everything's different because I work from here now. So what is it going to look like? What cool thing can we build moving forward? And how are we going to practice desire in inside this thing? What is our sex life going to look like? What is

our fantasy life together going to look like? What is dating each other going to look like? What is going out to you? What is me helping other going to look like? What is, um, going out to, what is me helping around the house now that you see me? Um, what is that going to look like? Does that make sense? What I'm saying, Aaron? Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And my hope is that y'all approach this with excitement and vigor of, for what could be not a morning of what's lost. You might mourn what was. It used to be cool to have an hour to yourself to drive and to listen to whatever podcast you want.

Maybe now that turns into a morning walk. And once you're done with work, you take a walk around the block for 30 more minutes. A, you're going to feel better. B, you're going to get some sunshine. And C, you've got some markers in your day that I was working, now I'm dead. And same with her. She's going to take a walk in the morning to gear up for teaching half dozen kids. And then she's going to take, go to the gym or whatever that looks

like for your family. Does that make sense? But you're going to build some of these things in and it can be exciting and it can be fun and it can be a new, a new canvas y'all are painting. It's only when you try to recreate what was that you try to drag the past into the future that it just wears everybody out because you can't get it back. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's really remarkable that you called this out on yourself. That's awesome. That puts you so far ahead of other guys I know.

It's amazing. Usually it's a wife calling me saying, hammeth into my rope, or a husband calling and saying, we don't have sex anymore. It's my wife's fault. And you peel it all the way back and you realize, oh, you have five kids. You've been working from home for 18 months in here. Does that make sense? So you've been able to look in the mirror and be like, I'm contributing to this. I know. I don't know what to do next. Right? So my recommendation, here's my prescription. Y'all get away for a weekend and dig into it, okay? And part of it's going to be where are we? Part of it's going to be lamenting what was.

And then the exciting part is let's build something awesome. And then we're going to practice it moving forward. How's that sound? Yeah, I like that. I think that's something we can definitely do and move forward with something cool. I love that. I think that's something we can definitely do and move forward with something cool. I love that. And it's really rad if you all come back with some, here's who we are, right? Here's who we're going to be.

Here's what our marriage is going to look like. It's going to look different. And then you invite the kids in on it. They'll all roll their eyes. You'll be like, gross. No, I don't want to talk about this. Bring them in on it. Here's who we're going to be moving forward. This is how this is going to work. We're going to make

this work because this looks like this is the rest of our life. It's not, but it feels like it is. And then in 18 months, you're going to get called back to the office. You guys are going to go on another retreat and do this whole thing over again. We had this rhythm and now the rhythm's different. Now we're playing a different song as a family. And so what's that going to look like? You're a stud, Aaron. I appreciate you a lot. And I want to know how that retreat goes. So after you go on this retreat, send Kelly an email, let us know how it goes. And if I can help with anything moving forward, let me know. Appreciate you, man. All right. As we wrap up today's show, we had another song, but in honor of Alicia, in honor of Alicia, it's a song from the record Some Things I Know from, is it Leanne Womack?

I'm not a Leanne Womack fan, but I am now. What's the name of the song? I'll Think of a Reason Later. And it goes like this. Oh yeah, this is my favorite song of all time, by the way, guys. I heard he was going to marry some girl from Denver. Then my sister came over and had the Sunday paper with her, and there was this girl on the social page looking in love and all engaged. We decided that she don't take a very good picture, and it may be my family's redneck nature rubbing off, bringing out unladylike behavior.

It sure ain't Christian to judge a stranger, but I don't like her. This is awesome, Kelly. She may be an angel who spends all winter bringing the homeless blankets and dinner, a regular Nobel Peace Prize winner, but I really hate her, and I'll think of a reason later. That's fantastic. That's kind of how you... This song feels like your song,

Kelly. Why do you say that? I mean... Because you're incredible. That's why. Brilliant. And the best senior associate executive star producer of all time. Right here on the Dr. John Deloney Show.