The Dr. John Delony Show - Helping Teens Cope with Suicide

Episode Date: May 31, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode   We're having issues with my 20-year-old son. He lives with us but misbehaves and is possibly in a romantic relationship with my 17-year-old step-daughter. How do I help my teenage kids deal with the suicide of their father and brother? Finding Meaning: The Sixth Stage of Grief - David Kessler My 7-year-old stepdaughter lives with her biological dad’s mom. How can we develop a relationship with her and possibly regain custody? Lyrics of the Day: "Tiny Dancer" - Elton John   As heard on this episode:  BetterHelp Redefining Anxiety John's Free Guided Meditation   tags: parenting, kids, boundaries, abuse, suicide/self-harm, trauma/PTSD, grief   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.`

Today's show is a hard one, so watch out for the little ears in the room. We're going to talk about issues with a 20-year-old son. We're going to talk about grieving the loss of family members who died by suicide. We're going to talk about building relationships with a distant stepchild. Stay tuned. Hey, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hope you're doing well and having fun, enjoying wherever it is you happen to be. Thank you for joining us, man. We're going to talk about mental health.

We're going to talk about your relationships. We're going to talk about all kinds of stuff. Man, the world is an unraveling mess, but I do think there's still good people out there. I know there are. I don't even think it. I know there are. I'm looking at some out here. There's some wonderful, kind people out here. It's millions of people out here.

I mean, four. There's four folks out there. And I think two of them are just waiting on their Uber to get here. But hey, thanks for joining us, man. It's awesome. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you. I'd love to talk with you. Give me a shout at 1-844-693-3291.

That's 1-844-693-3291. Or you can go to johndeloney.com slash show and fill out the form, and we'll get you on be awesome all right so hey team kelly james zach what i was i was shooting i was on a shooting a tv show this morning with somebody i was a guest on their show and one of the questions she asked me was something that gets me teared up and if you don't if you love how I'm like humble bragging my way into this thing, that was pretty awesome. Right?

So what is a movie that, that makes you cry? Like a hundred percent time, whenever you see the scene in this movie, it makes you tear up. In Miracle, the movie about the 1980 hockey game. Every time he says,

do you believe in miracles? Even though I know we win, I'm going to cry a hundred percent every time. I want to watch that movie with you just because i don't know that it's physiologically possible for you to cry it is but i only cry at sports movies for some reason not relationship or set or death movies just sports no just sports and at the end of and at the end of predator when the yeah that doesn't say much about me but no just the emotion of the whole the sports and stuff i don't know why that gets to me james man off the top of my head the

pursuit of happiness with will smith yeah that one especially being a father that one wrecks me we're gonna show it we're gonna watch with our kids pretty soon and they're gonna see their mom me weeping have you seen it no i've never've never seen it. You haven't seen it? It's good. It's fantastic. Zach, what do you think? That scene in Dumb and Dumber when they don't know that they're inviting them onto the tour bus at the very end.

You cry every time. Every time. It just gets in your heart. Oh, yeah. Sammy Swampson. Samson. I was way off. Okay, mine is that scene in Almost Famous

when they get in the big fight and they're on the bus and they slowly just start singing the lyrics to Tiny Dancer to each other and then pretty soon the whole bus music just brings everybody back together 100% of the time I don't care if I'm mowing the yard

and I just got in and I'm like hey what's up or if I'm all pre- I just start weeping and I don't know what it'm mowing the yard and I just got in and I'm like hey what's up or if I'm all prepped I just start weeping and I don't know what it is about that I think it's just people singing along together I love it yeah but that song was it the office that did the Tony Danza was that from the office

I can't hear that song now without thinking about Tony Danza in America if you're listening you just saw it happen just then i talking about an emotional moment and james ruins it so thanks james for once again i blame michael scott bringing a room down bringing america down but you pretty much did the same thing to me too i was talking about what made me emotional and then you were making fun of it talking about predator and stuff well yours is a borderline pathology james is just right i'm just kidding no thank you james i do love the office

it's good i don't know what that has to do with anything in this show i just want to know what made y'all cry what movies with movie scenes anyway all right let's go to mary in atlanta let's get the show going what's up mary Mary? How are we doing? I'm good. How are you? We are rocking and rolling. So how's everything? Y'all doing okay? We're doing okay.

We're having a few issues. That's why I'm calling you. All right. So what's up? How can I help? Well, I am part of a blended family, and my son recently moved back home, and we're having some issues. How old is he? He is 19, about to be 20. Okay. And what did he move home from? Well, he was just gone for a few months. He got a job. He finally got a pretty decent job

and he went to go move in with his girlfriend. And then he, he called me one day and asked if he could come back home so that, um, that wasn't really working out. And one of his coworkers had just rented a house and he wanted to move in with him. It was closer to work and it sounded good. So I was like, okay, but I talked it over with my husband and we agreed that it would be for six weeks and he would have to, there'd be no drugs or alcohol allowed, no girls allowed, no, he had to clean up after himself and then pay a hundred dollars a week and rent. You basically gave him the rules that I have for my 11-year-old. Yeah. Is that a signal of his emotional state as a 20-year-old?

Pretty much, because up until he moved out just a couple months ago, he literally was doing nothing. Okay. So what's going on? So at first, he was doing good for like the first four weeks. He was paying his rent. Cleaning up after himself. Cleaning up after himself.

He was going to work. He seemed to have a good self-esteem. And then all of a sudden he started not going to work as often as he was and stopped cleaning up after himself, stopped paying rent. And then he called me out to talk to him one day and I walked up to his car with him and he said, he started crying and said that, um, I didn't know him. Nobody knew the real him, that he wasn't a good person and that nobody understood him. And I, I just, I didn't know what was going on. So I told him, I was like, regardless of what's happening, you know, or what you've done, I still love you. Nothing's going to make me not love you. I said, just talk to me. And, um,

he said that he's not emotionally connected with anyone since his brother died. And he died four years ago in an accident. He was 18. Okay. And we've been getting through that pretty well, I thought. And then, you know, I was just kind of waiting for the bomb to drop. And he said that the only one that he's emotionally connected to since then was my husband's youngest daughter, who is 17, and she doesn't live with us. But he proceeded to tell me that they've been in a romantic relationship.

And, you know, I was stunned and told him, you know, all the things that could go wrong with that, that it was inappropriate. And I didn't really know what to say, but it didn't end very well. I tried to tell my husband, which obviously he didn't take it very well. And now over the past week, they're not talking to each other now. She's mad at him because he told us and he's just kind of regressed back to himself. He's not talking to anybody. He's openly smoking weed in the driveway.

Like he's just shut down. And I don't know what to do. I want to help him, but at the same time, I don't want it to destroy, you know, the entire family. So I'm just, I don't know what to do to help him and not destroy us. So you, you cannot, he's a 20-year-old man, okay? Yes. He's got some trauma, right? He's got some hard stuff.

He's a 20-year-old man though, right? Yes. And he suffered a horrific loss of his brother. That was hard for the family. And he still should not have to have in a lease that he's got to clean up after himself as a 20-year-old, right? Yes, yes. And so any damage that happens to the family because you decide to draw boundaries are not going to be, quote-unquote, your fault, okay? Okay.

And you're going to have to unhook yourself from the other people's choices when they run up against your boundaries, the things that you're going to do to keep your family safe. Okay? Okay. Also, you're going to love the, you're going to hold up your end of the bargain. You told him, no matter what you tell me, I'm going to love you. And you're going to keep doing that, right?

Right. And that means you're going to love him and you're going to be there for him and you're not going to enable him. Right? And he's going to have to face the music that if he was in a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old as a 20-year-old, depending on what state he's in, he just committed a felony. And that felony was committed against a child, and that child happens to be the daughter of your husband. Yes.

Right? And so there's going to be some daughter of your husband. Yes. Right? And so there's going to be some face in the music on this deal. Again, you will not be the person who destroyed your family. Right? Right. The more you hang on to that, the more you are going to enable him to continue to hurt a child, to continue to not get the help that he desperately, desperately needs, because you're trying to own and control the outcomes of this deal, and you can't.

He's got to take responsibility as a hurting 20-year-old man. Right. That he can't sleep with 17-year-olds. He can't smoke weed in his mom's house. He can't fill in the blank, fill in the blank, fill in the blank, right? Right. So what he's got to have right now is your love and your compassion and your accountability all wrapped up into one package. Real, real quick. Because he's really close to doing something he can't come back from.

Right. Whether that's hurting himself, whether that is – he's going to get himself in trouble. He's going to cross the line he can't come back from. Well, his day to move out of our house was supposed to be next week, and I still want to hold to that. Okay. I'm nervous about it, but at the same time, I feel like if I've extended any further, like you said, I'm enabling him.

Yeah. And. But I also want you to be willing to extend an olive branch and take him out and say, what is your plan? I will help you make a plan. Yeah. It's not going to be here, but I'm not abandoning you. I want to help you. Why aren't you, and I don't know if you and your husband can talk about, we might help

you with counseling resources. We might help you with recovery resources and things like that. But it's not going to be living here because you got a job. Right. And he's clearly got skills. And he's also clearly got hurt. Right. So it's all wrapped up there together.

He's going to have to face the music with your husband now. Yes. Well, we had initially, we had planned on taking $100 a week rent, saving that for him, and then adding $400 for his birthday to give him his $1,000 emergency starting fund. Of course, with him coming home with bags of weed, I don't feel like that's going to help him at this point. Well, and here's the magic. The magic of an emergency fund is part the money, but that's not really it. The emergency fund is a psychological thing, that I went bananas. I sold stuff.

I just ran as fast as I could, and I was able to do this. And so just handing somebody $1,000 is not the same as them grinding and grinding. It's a, it's a, it's a psychological thing, right? It would have been a great gift, would have been cool, but it would not have been effective as him going out and grinding it out and earning a thousand bucks and showing and proving to himself baby steps. I could do this, right? Yeah. Right. But all that to say is this. You and your husband have to get on the same page today. And if not today, you let him know, like, hey, we've got to have this conversation tomorrow.

Right? Okay. And you need your husband to be as level-headed as a dad of a daughter who's been raped and or sexually assaulted by an adult male can be, right? Which is not always very much so. And you're all going to have to figure out what's next steps. Okay. And then at some point, he's going to have to address your husband, his stepdad. At some point, you're going to have to reconcile that relationship there.

And then he's going to have to move out of your house. Yes. And he's going to have to move out of your house. Yes. And he's going to have to move out of your house with the best you can, letting him know that you, that you love him. I would recommend, I'd say this all the time and I would tell you the same thing too. I would write him a letter that he can hold in his hand and go back to and go back to and go back to.

And I'd probably, if I was his mom, make that a practice. Maybe once a week, it will help you clarify your thoughts and get all that spinning spirally stuff out onto a piece of paper and also it's going to give him something to hold because someone who's an addict someone who's suffering with trauma they are so so good with walls right and defense mechanism they throw them up so fast and as soon as you say you've got to move out but i love you they're already out they don't listen to a word you're saying. They are into defense mode and you hate me and you're going to ruin my life and why don't you fill in the blank, right? If they're holding that letter, they can circle back to it and circle back to it and circle

back to it and they can read it again and read it again and read it again. Okay. And even if he takes that letter and you find it in the trash on his way out, it's still a benefit to you for having gotten your heart and thoughts out on a piece of paper. Okay. Okay. But the greatest thing you can give him right now is a plan, like a detailed plan. Here's where you can go.

Here's how we're going to support you or not support you. Here's what we expect of you if you want to move back, all those kinds of stuff. And two is your accountability, your boundaries. Okay. And I don't want to sugarcoat this. It may get real bad, Mary your boundaries. Okay. And I don't want to sugarcoat this, it may get real bad, Mary. Yes. Okay.

Yes. Are you ready for that? I think I have gotten there. I've been dealing with his boundaries for a year and a half, two years now. Okay. And I've listened a lot, but it's finally to that point

where I think I'm going to be able to do what I need to do. Okay. And let him know he's always got your heart and you'll always be there to meet him for coffee and to talk him through what's next. But that doesn't always mean he's got access to smoke weed in your house. That doesn't always mean he's got access to your money and to the children in your home, et cetera, et cetera, right? Right. Okay. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time.

No, I appreciate you making the call. And I think the broader lesson for all of us is a lot of these relationships, especially when they're young adults, man, drawing boundaries sometimes for the first time, especially when you're dealing with trauma, it's not just a magic solution. It gets real, real hard. Oh, and Mary, if you get a hint, a hint that he's going to hurt himself, you call in the Calvary.

You call every emergency number that you know. If you get a hint that he's in some sort of inappropriate relationship with a minor, you call in everybody. You call the police. You call everybody into that situation. That's your job. Because it sounds like there was a romantic relationship with a minor, you have to report that too, even though it's your child. You're going to have to report that too even though it's your child um you're gonna have to report that i don't know some laws 17 is is um of legal consent age and so depending on the state you're in y'all can worry if y'all can figure that out with your local

authorities but um he's gonna have a reckoning with that situation um and that can get real messy too that can get real messy with your marriage and you and your husband are going to have to be super intentional about being united in this deal. Man, there's not always happy endings here. I really, really will be thinking about you guys as y'all move forward.

And you and your husband, I want to get a counselor to help y'all unpack this and work through this because it's going to be hard, hard, hard, hard. Thank you so much for that call, Mary. One of the most common questions folks ask me is what they should do when anxiety or panic strikes like a lightning bolt. I've been helping folks one-on-one for years, but I wanted to create something that everyone could use anywhere at any time. So I created a free guided meditation.

It's not really a meditation, but really me just walking with you through your anxiety alarms from start to finish. I'll guide you through a breathing exercise and show you how to lean in, listen, and head towards healing. It is free and it's for everyone. You can download this guided meditation today for free at johndeloney.com. All right, let's go to Leanne in Salt Lake City. Leanne, what's going on? Hi, I'm doing good. Doing good.

I don't get that. I don't get that like, hey, doing good. That makes my heart feel good. You know, I have some hard stuff to tell you, but I am blessed. And so life is pretty good despite. Oh, are you a minimizer? No, I like to think that, well, okay.

You tell me, am I a minimizer? Let's do it. All right, all right. I feel like you're going to drop some heavy, heavy, heavy on here. Well, it is pretty heavy stuff. Five years ago, five and a half years ago, my husband, who was 39 years old, I was 34, took his life. Oh, Leanne, I'm sorry. Yeah, hard things. I had seven children ages 13 and under and a four-month-old on my hip at the funeral.

Wow. Was he the father of all seven? an under and a four month old on my hip at the funeral. And, um, all of, was he the father of all seven? Yes. Yes. And we had been married 15 years. Whoa.

Um, so the oldest at the time was 13 and he just really struggled with his dad's death. Um, this is very hard for him to overcome. We did counseling, we did medication, we did treatment programs. I did everything to try to help him

and two years ago last month he took his life and I found him hanging in my shed and it was terrible and it was awful but I'm now we're two years out and obviously still very hard

but the problem I'm running into. Hey, hold on real quick, real quick before we get to the problem. Stop there. Okay. Because you blew by that pretty quick. That's a lot. It is a lot. Yes.

It's a lot. And you've got six other kids that you immediately rallied around to take care of. That is a lot and you've got six other kids that you immediately rallied around to take care of that is a lot and here's the deal Leanne

I've shown up I've been in that exact scene holding a mother in that exact moment right that's a lot it's pretty horrific.

Yeah. No mother should ever see that. Ever. I agree. No wife should ever experience that. And I know there's some sort of challenge that has presented itself today, but I don't want to get to that until you hear me say I'm so sorry. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Man. Okay. Okay. So fast forward three years. So your son was 16? man okay so fast forward three years so your son was 16 when he passed away he was 16 years old two years so it was two years ago

yes he was 16 he'd be 18 now okay how was the graduation was that a hard moment for you it was when his friends started graduating it was nice for you to understand

that it would be because a lot of people don't get that oh yeah yeah but when his friends were graduating. It's nice for you to understand that it would be, because a lot of people don't get that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But when his friends were graduating, that was very hard. Yeah. And I want you, you're not asking for this, I don't think, but as you move through, be super intentional to put stars on the calendar and intentionally grieve those seasons, okay?

Right. Yes. When they start graduating, his friends graduate college, when you see their Facebook stuff, when you see when the first one of his old buddies has a kid, all those moments, don't fight that. Just let that wash over you because it's going to hurt, right? Right.

And that's part of the healing and grieving process. So he dies by suicide three years ago. And then fast forward, now you're a single mom with six kids. Yeah, doing the single mom thing for five years. But now oldest son's been gone two years. So now I have these six kids and, you know, I work, I'm a mom. And the struggle I'm running into is these sweet kids. It makes me emotional.

I talk about it, but the hardest part is honestly just watching my kids have to age overnight and carry burdens that would cripple grown adults. And just watching them try to have to weather that and navigate that. And everyone's in counseling. We have, we go, we go the whole nine yards. Um, my struggle though, and some do better than others of my children, but, um, it's the older ones in particular that kind of remember their brother the most really struggle with taking dad and brother's death personally that it means that i wasn't lovable enough to keep them here and that maybe i'm not worthy and um you being you being mom or you being like they're they're feeling that individually their voice okay their voice feels

like because i they voice they have voices to me We're very open and speak openly about all this stuff. And that has been a worry on a lot of their hearts is what does this mean that dad really didn't love me if he's willing to just leave? And does this mean brother never even cared about me if he would leave us in this situation knowing how much it hurts having losing a family member to this because brother knew brother went through it too so that's the struggle is I've told them over and over and like I said they're in so much counseling but they're being told this has nothing to do with you but kids will I feel like just make it about them make it about if they were good kids or if they're not good kids and they I am having the hardest time correcting that belief system that is being created in some of them,

that this was bigger than any of us. It was inside of them and it had nothing to do with you. And still yet, especially my 16-year-old daughter, just really feels like I could have prevented this if I was a better girl. I hate that for you. I know I keep saying that. I'm sorry that you're having to navigate that. Right.

So if you've listened to this show before, I've talked about this with marriages. This is one of those cases where it's clear how it happens. But kids feel tension they absorb trauma and they make it their fault that's the only way they know how to regulate themselves is with other people and when other people die by suicide they're left looking in the mirror with nobody and so they look at that gap between them and somebody that they loved who's no longer here, and they say, what did I do, right? And what a good therapist will do is help them understand that that illness was in somebody else's mind, right? A good therapist will say, it feels like this, but here's the truth of those feelings.

And there is a part of being 16, 17, 18, we got to weather that. And it's just an uncomfortable, hard season where you're going to really struggle and you're going to have to struggle to not project this is, you're reliving this again. Because now you got another 16 year old.

Absolutely. And your brain is gearing up for number two. Right? It's true. It's been down this road before. And so the challenge you're going to have is not, what happened to your son, statistically speaking, will not happen again.

Right? I sure hope not. There you go, right? It won't happen again. But you and I both know that it might. Yeah. Right? I sure hope not. There you go. Right? It won't happen again. But you and I both know that it might. Yep. Right? 99.99% chance that it won't happen again.

But you have lived the.001. And your brain knows that. Your heart knows that. So it's on full alert. And as I just said, kids feel that tension. And they're going to make it their fault. Yes. We've already experienced that.

I work on that in therapy for myself, but inside, I'm like completely overreacting and freaking out, and outside, I have to be, I'm so sorry you feel that way. Let's talk about that. Hold on, hold on. It's a challenge. Hold on, hold on. Hold on, listen. I don't want to get in the middle of your therapy, right? I'm assuming you've got a great counselor. Right.

But if you were my client, I'm not even licensed, so I'm not going to put it that way. Here's what I would recommend to you just as a neighbor, okay? Okay. When you feel a mess inside, your daughter needs to feel that congruence. She feels that you're a mess inside. And when your face is like, hey, baby, how's it going? She knows there's something not right. Something's not congruent there between your heart and your body.

And between your heart and what you're saying to her. As one of my students who was on the autism spectrum once said to me, I was laughing, but I was also telling him, hey, dude, you can't have alcohol in here. And he said, your words are not matching your face. I need you to clarify for me. Right? So very similar situation. So the greatest gift you can give your daughter is to say, I'm so scared because this is when I lost your brother. And I love you more than life itself.

And I'm scared. And then suddenly you become human. And then you become just like her. And suddenly she doesn't feel so crazy anymore. Right, right. Does that make sense? Yes. And we've had those conversations too. too but I am still I am still working through the that my son thing that sometimes I feel like

just freaking out in a way that would scare her and so very much I have to tone that down that I have had those conversations that what you're saying is scaring me so like let's talk about that like let's keep talking about this but but you're Like I do, I almost probably go to the other, the pendulum kind of swings the other way that I don't want to, I don't want to scare her. I don't want to upset her. And challenging after you have lost a kid because you were holding boundaries and trying to parent them the way that, you know, they need to be parents, especially when it's a son who doesn't have a dad and then they kill themselves. It, it it it is hard to stay at that level of parenting that you know is right for your kids to hold boundaries and expect things of

them that kids need to be able to do um hey leanne leanne leanne yeah your son's death was not your fault. My brain knows that. My heart still struggles. Leanne, I'm telling you right now, your son's death was not your fault, and you're still carrying it. Yeah. Your son was a lovely, hilarious, funny, gross, hairy-legged 16-year-old boy whose head was not well. Right. And he died.

Yep. Not your fault. Right? Yes. You've got... It's been experiencing a scary endeavor. It's so scary. It's the most scary.

It's your heart walking outside of your body out in the neighborhood, right? Right. But you've got to set that brick down. Because when you're carrying that gigantic cinder block of somewhere deep down, I'm responsible for this. All that brick is taking up both of your hands, and you can't fully grab and hug

the life into your other kids with all your might, right? Right. And so your grief, to quote the grief, the greatest grief guy on planet Earth, David Kessler, your grief has to be witnessed.

Someone's got to sit in it with you. And there is no better people on Earth to sit in it with you than those who experienced it with you. Right. Right. Have you all done those exercises where you all, especially you and your 16-year-old, we all write them a letter together? No, we haven't. I'd recommend that.

And maybe ask your therapist to do that. Y'all want to do that together, all three of you? But y'all write them a letter. Or you write one and she write one and y'all read them out loud in a counseling session. And in that letter, you talk about how much you miss him, how mad at him you are, how much you love him. And then the beautiful part of this is you're both seeing, you're both letting your feelings that are on the inside come be seen on the

outside. And then you talk about who you're going to be. Here's the kind of mom I'm going to be. Here's how we're going to make meaning of this mess. And what that begins to do for you and your 16 year old is it begins to plot a course for tomorrow. And when those that we love die by suicide, our tomorrow just goes away, right? You just stumble through every single day to get to the next day, to get to the next day. My guess is you've already mapped out just like probably to the day, how many days you got left with all six of these kids, right? It is just how I can get through today, get through today, get through today,

get through today. And it's hard and it's hard and it's hard. And once you turn this... I don't want that for them. I know. I don't want that. I'm not the mom in survival mode. Leanne, Leanne, I don't want this for you. You're too extraordinary.

You're too extraordinary. You're too extraordinary. And right now you are living a life that you've got duct taped and knitted and nailed together because you're trying to hold it together for them. And you've got to exhale and let that thing go. And that means you're going to have to let your son go. And you're still holding on to him because you still want to edit the story because somehow you think you're the author of what happened and you're not okay and there's nothing on this call i mean i quit what has happened to you should not happen. I'm so, so sorry. Thank you.

And what I want for you is to feel that. I want your kids to feel that their mom feels. I want their kids to know that my mom's human and that she is a mess just like we are and that we miss, miss, miss our brother, miss, miss dad, that we super are mad at them and we understand what they did. And we don't understand it, but we understand that they weren't, they weren't well.

And then we're going to start charting a course for tomorrow. We're going to make mean of this stuff. And what a gift. Your gift is not going to be making sure they don't get any bumps or bruises. Your gift is going to be letting them see your bumps and bruises. Yeah. Letting them see your scars. That's the gift you give them at this point.

And letting them know they're the most precious, special, wonderful messes on planet Earth. Right. Okay. I can do that. I will do that. But that starts with you putting that brick down. Yeah. And that sounds a lot letting this, putting that brick down. Yeah. And that sounds a lot cooler.

Yeah. It's super like, like it's a cool thing to say on the radio and then just like click over to the next call and you hang up and you're like, what, how do I even do that? Start with a letter. Okay.

Right. Start with a letter. Talk to him about that. You're so sad that you're missing graduation. And it's also awesome to see his buddies graduating. And you are pissed that he's not graduating. Maybe send his buddies a card and congratulate them. That's the little breadcrumbs towards making meaning of this,

is when you cheer on his classmates right when you call his old girlfriend and you send her a note to say hey don't call her because that can be kind of weird but um send her a little card or something says we miss you and happy graduation whatever i don't know what the what the story was there but right um begin the slow that slow turn into making meaning of this thing. But I check on that. Start there with a letter. Start there with your daughter writing a letter,

you doing it. And I think reading out loud to each other is going to humanize you in front of your daughter. And remember this, she's watching you for her only picture of how a strong, wonderful mother, a strong, wonderful woman deals with hurt. And you want her to be able to feel this, to acknowledge it, to own it, to stumble and cry and get dragged down that river of grief.

You want her to experience all those things, but you've got to show her. You've got to model it. And that's how you end up becoming well too. Thank you so, so much for your call, Leanne. You're a brave, wonderful woman. If you, if you would be willing to, it'd be a brave thing, but after you read your letters to each other, again, preferably with your counselor, if y'all read your letters to each other, I'd love for you to give me a call back and let me know how that went. I'd love to know about how that moment was between you and your daughter. I think that's going to be a remarkable, remarkable turn for your family.

Thank you so much for the call. All right, let's take one more call. Let's go to Zach in Huntsville, Alabama. Zach, what's going on, brother? Not much. Huntsville, Texas. Not Huntsville, Alabama. That's cool.

Huntsville, Texas. What's that? Huntsville, Texas. Yeah, right down the road from where I grew up. What's up, man? Not much. Just chilling on the way to deliver a load. I drive a truck for a living.

But anyway, so, Colin, because my wife has a daughter from a previous marriage, so technically my stepdaughter, and we've been talking about trying to get custody back we tried a few years ago when she was three it didn't work out uh why did your wife why'd your wife lose custody um it was a mixture of voluntary and then just uh uh like i'll uh i'm gonna go back to the beginning of the story to try and keep my thoughts on track otherwise I'm going to get sidetracked did she have an addiction problem

was there abuse in the home no nothing like that she just signed over voluntary custody of her child okay her dad sorry child uh okay i heard that uh the i'm sorry no it's cool man take a breath dude you're good man you're good what's up okay uh her former mother-in-law started watching her when she was about a year and a half it was just before my wife and i got together and she asked my wife to sign papers

given her temporary temporary custody just for legal purposes um on the paper in colorado where cassie lives uh the paper asks for a thing it's got a section that asks you for how many hours the parents are going to visit the child and her former mother-in-law put five hours just to start with claiming it was legal purposes but that she'd have access to the kid no matter what and then following that she started following those five hours religiously like it was five hours a week no more no less for pretty much the whole time my wife were wife and I were together until we got married. So basically what you're saying is, hold on. Yeah. Falsified documents tricked the mother of her granddaughter into signing papers that she didn't fully get that signed custody away of her daughter, limiting to five hours a week where a mom could see her baby. Yes and no.

Her following the five hours religiously was part of it but the documents were all legal and everything like that that's not where we lost custody uh flash forward about uh flash forward about five months later uh my wife and i we got married we i'd been driving truck the whole time so we hadn't really gotten like proper honeymoons or anything so we decided well why don't you come on the truck with me? We'll go out for just a little over a month. We'll go to Galveston and see my father-in-law because he lives down in Galveston. And then we'll come back right before Christmas.

And then we talked to her mother-in-law and asked if Cassie could continue the visits. Cassie's the daughter of his name. Asked if we could continue the visits with my mother-in-law and sister-in-law who we were living with at the time so that we could Skype her and see her and so that the visits wouldn't keep the routine going. Two weeks later when my wife's grandma

asked for a visit, she, just paraphrasing the message, former mother-in-law sent the message back saying, I'm not obligated to give the family visits. They're not continuing until Colleen gets back. So we called her. We were like, all right, this is bullshit. We're filing for full custody. We're going to court.

Flash forward another seven months, I want to say, because her and her attorney kept pushing it forward and forward. Finally, around Augustust we said all right enough's enough but in the couple months two months leading up to that everything fell apart for us my my mother-in-law my wife's mother relapsed on drugs she trashed the house for a considerable amount of time while she was living with us and then at the custody hold on hold on this is like turning to jerry springer brother like let's let's let's rein this all the way back in okay hold on right now no it's all good it's all good your story's your story man i'm uh it sounds like a mess okay here's the mess and then some. Yes. So where I'm not tracking with you is this.

I got a five-year-old little girl. You'd have to come through hell and back to make it to where I couldn't see my daughter. Like I'm talking, you have to shut down the city of Nashville to keep me out of seeing my daughter. And so something here doesn't pass my smell test. There's something weird going on here that why a mother would sign over custody or some sort of five-hour rule or some sort of hey thing and I'm just going to take off for a month and i'll just skype in with my daughter none of that sounds right and so i don't know the i don't know the particulars of it and we don't have time on this show to go all the way back into it i just want you to know that there's something about that that doesn't and i'm not super dad either dude i'm just a regular old guy

like something there sounds screwy. But fast forward to now. Now y'all are circling back, and you want to regain custody. And how old is this little girl? She is seven currently. And just a brief little context. A judge turned the temporary custody thing into full custody when we went to court and over the last few years i'm not gonna lie we have not been perfect parents or

anything close to that we have had very limited visitation and then trying to circle back to but listen a judge a judge only does that a judge only does that when they're like a judge man i've been through so many situations and walked alongside people who I could not believe the judge gave them back to their biological parents. But every judge I've ever seen, their bent is how do I get these families reunited? So there was something there that the judge looked at either your current wife or that current situation and said, nope. And I just can tell you, my experience has been there's something extreme there. There's something really

challenging going on in that home. For them not, for, you've got a mother saying, dude, I just want to be in my kid's life. That's the dream of every court I've ever seen. Now, I know not every court's perfect and there's idiots everywhere. I get that. But, so now here you are seven years later

and you're asking how do you reinsert yourself into this daughter's life? Is that ultimately when we distill down? Is that the question? Yes and no. We haven't necessarily left her life but she's growing up

we're trying to reconnect with her in a proper way and see if custody can be an option a few years down the road we're not trying to go for immediate or anything like that we know that's not good for her but okay okay and is the custody for the her best interest or is it because y'all miss your daughter and you want to start seeing her some more like why why now it's a it's a little bit of both like we will admit we've discussed it and if we decide that if going down this road we decide it's in best interest for her to stay with her uh grandmother we will definitely make that call because because we've never been fully out of her life or anything like that. We have regular contact with her and everything like that. But I want you to hear how that sounds to me.

Okay. This is her mom. Like my wife doesn't like to leave my daughter like with the neighbor for a few hours. Do you hear what I'm saying? I don't feel like I'm being super clear. I get you. You're working hard. You're a stepdad.

You are like in life. You are doing the couple hours thing. I get that. But your wife is this little girl's mom. Does that make sense? Is that register? Yeah. So are you wondering what my wife is struggling with?

No, no, no. That's a whole other show. That's a whole other call, right? Ultimately, here's what y'all are going to have to do. You're going to have to go to court or you're gonna have to get with a lawyer or go see a judge and you're gonna have to ask for an avenue back and there's been some sort of behaviors whether that's addiction whether that's abandonment whether that's neglect whether that's, there's something there that a court that is designed to reunify families has said, we're not doing that in here.

And I've never experienced it where there's not a series of services, there's not a plan that a mom and or a dad can work to reintroduce themselves into the life of their child. I've never seen that. It may exist in your situation, I've never seen that. It may exist in your situation. I've never seen it unless parental rights are terminated. You're out, right? Y'all aren't in that case because y'all still get a few hours a week or a month or whatever. But what I'm doing, if I'm you, the first thing I'm doing is I'm going to go get a lawyer. I'm going to get a judge. I'm going to ask them, what is I want to be in the life of this girl.

And I think you and I could talk for probably two hours or five hours, and I'd hear all kinds of stuff in the story. And there's probably blame to cast everybody, probably mess to cast everybody, I get that. But it's going to come back with you looking at a legal, somebody who has taken away most of your custody, if not all of it, and saying, I'm going to do whatever it takes. Whatever it takes to let that little girl know that I love her more than life itself. And that I've made some mistakes. I haven't been, to use your words, haven't been perfect, whatever that means. I'm going to do whatever it takes.

And then you're going to have to give someone to give you a plan, and you're going to have to exceed that plan. You're going to have to go to all the classes they tell you, and you're going to have to give someone to give you a plan and you're going to have to exceed that plan. You're going to have to go to all the classes they tell you, and you're going to take extra classes. You're going to send a letter a week. You're going to write letters. Let this little girl know how much she's loved and not so much you, but her mother is going to write letters, right? And you're going to, when you say you're going to show up, you're going to show up. You're going to be early and you're going to, when you say you're going to show up, you're going to show up. You're going to be early, and you're going to drop off on time. You're going to be respectful and dignified of her living arrangement. You're going to show up at all the school meetings. You're going to show up.

You're going to show up. You're going to show up. And if you live in different towns, like we just can't do that right now, then this may not be the season for you because you're going to have to convince a judge or a group of lawyers. You're going to have to convince a judge that y'all screwed you have to convince a judge y'all screwed up and you're ready to be make it whole and i i can't wrap my this is your daughter everything in the world comes after that. Everything. Everything.

Your wife's work, your wife's plans, your wife's dating life, your wife, everything comes after that one thing. That's her little girl. And I'll burn it all down because I love my daughter that much. So that's where you start. Start with a judge. Start with a lawyer and say, what's my plan back? And you all work that plan. You exceed that plan, but not just to get custody.

You want to get custody? No, no, no. You got a lot of healing for that little girl, and you want that little girl to grow up in a better situation than she. You want her kids to grow up in a better situation than she did. And she's going to have to know that her mom values her. And that starts with a lot of generational healing there, man.

Thanks for the call, man. Sorry we couldn't spend more time on it. I know that's a mess. I know this is hard. I know it's eating at your heart. I trust you on that one. But y'all got a lot, a lot of work to do. All right, as we wrap up today's show,

let's just circle back. Let's go full circle. I didn't really plan to do this, but let's just do it. We're going to be Cheeseball Deluxe today. 1971 release on the Madman Across the Water album. The one and only Mr. Elton John sings Tiny Dancer, and it goes like this. Blue jean, baby. L.A. lady.

Seamstress for the band. Pretty eyed. Pirate smile. You'll marry a music man. Ballerina. You must have seen her dancing in the sand. And now she's in me. Always with me.

Tiny Dancer in my hand. Jesus freaks out in the street. Handing out tickets for God. Turning back. She just laughs. The boulevard's not that bad. I was hoping you guys were going to join in and sing along with me We're going to have like a moment on the bus

This is a hard show, man You guys are letting the team down You got to start singing, you got to lead Piano man Nope He makes his stand at the auditorium Looking on, she sings the songs The words she knows

The tunes she hums But oh, how it feels so real Lying there with no one near Only you and you can hear me When I say softly, slowly Hold me closer, tiny Tiny dancer no one near. Only you and you can hear me when I say softly, slowly, hold me closer, tiny tiny dancer. Count the headlights on the highway. Lay me down

in sheets of linen. You had a busy day today. This is The Dr. John Deloney Show. Thank you.