The Dr. John Delony Show - Her First Boyfriend Died . . . I’m the New Guy

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

📱Early Access: Watch Episodes of The Dr. John Delony Show #1 Week Early—Download the Free Ramsey Network App Today! On today’s episode, we hear about: ·      A man comparing himself to his girlfriend’s deceased boyfriend ·      A wife struggling to move forward after her husband relapsed ·      A mom wondering how to help her daughter who struggles with mental illness Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch   Connect With Our Sponsors:   🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🔴 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge 🌿 Get up to 40% off at Cozy Earth with code DELONY  🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤20% off at Organifi with code DELONY 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights  🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy

I'm wondering how I can navigate feelings of comparison to my girlfriend's late boyfriend. They dated for nearly two years and he went away into the armed forces and sometimes when I am with her I feel as if maybe she's not as present with me as I'd like her to be. Happy New Year! This is John. I don't know why I'm yelling. I was not going to yell. That's one of the things I'm not going to do in 2025. The world's yelling.

I'm going to be more chill. So let me do that over. Hey, Happy New Year, everybody. I'm glad that you're joining us on the Dr. John Delaney show. Hopefully you are still on vacation I know you're not but it's funny just a dream, isn't it? And I hope that you are launching into a new year whether you got new Goals new identities you're trying to work into You've got some things that you want to be different this year Man, I really hope that you are off to a great, great start

in your 2025 is going to be something extraordinary. Go make it so. On the show, we talk about mental and emotional health. We talk about your relationships. We talk about whatever you got going on in your life. And if you want to be on the show, give me a buzz 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndoloney.com slash ask. A-S-K. All right, let's roll out to New York. New York. I can talk to Michael. What's up, Michael?

Can you hear me? I got you, man. How's it going? Good, man. How are you? Fantastic, brother. What's up? Nothing much.

So just to get straight into it, I'm wondering how I can navigate feelings of comparison and altogether my insecurities within my relationship, feelings of comparison to my girlfriend's late boyfriend who passed away about three years ago now. Three years ago. So tell me the story, man. She was dating somebody, he passed away, and now y'all are together? Yep, correct. So they did you for nearly two years? and he went away into the Armed Forces and

He committed suicide or that was the story that was there not the story that was what was said There's there's some shady some Circumstances there but okay but altogether that was what what happened he committed suicide and so she lost him suddenly and um you know it breaks my heart every day for so yeah that's that's her story with that so what's your story my story is My story is that, well, first off, you know, I haven't been in many long-term relationships. I've been in one in my life and I was younger. I was in high school. Okay.

And so, you know, I'm kind of new to this. I'm still navigating it. But when it comes to this situation, if that's even the right word for it, situation, I would say that, you know, it's hard for me to, you know, sometimes when I am with her, I feel as if maybe she's not as present with me as, you know, I'd like her to be possibly. It says, those are the right words. But you know, like I said, it breaks my heart for her every day, I can only understand how she's feeling.

I'm the first guy that she actually went on a date with or has been in a relationship since those three years ago. So it's just- How much does she bring this up and how much are you projecting this onto your normal relationship? Yeah, so that's exactly my concern is that I think it's probably my ego or something around there that's bringing up these feelings of you know, oh, she's thinking about him,

or in this moment, she's thinking about him when it's really not true. And it's more or less just my assumptions, I need to like reframe the whole situation in a way, in my own mind. Yeah, because I see a narrative that you can also create. You can create a story that you're dating somebody that's forever damaged a story that you're dating somebody that's forever damaged and that you are just this second place, like cut rate placeholder for her one true love who died when she was still a late teenager. You can make up the story that after three years of the Sun being out in her life,

everything being smoke and haze and ash, she saw through the haze you, a light, someone who could bring her some joy, make her laugh again, someone she could imagine herself having his hand in her hand. And that would be one of the most empowering, uplifting, turn, like, write a new story with, you know, energy. But you don't choose that one. You choose every time she looks off, every time she rolls away, every time she pulls back from a kiss, must be him, must be him, must be him.

I may be out to lunch brother, but I'm 99.9% sure that you're bringing that baggage to this thing. 100%. And that's exactly what I thought that I was doing this whole entire time because I don't mind when she does bring him up or anything like that. I actually want to hear about him. I do.

You tell her that? I do. I tell her that all the time. Why do you want to hear about him? Because I want to know how to love her better. Yeah, you don't love her better through a teenage romance. Yeah, yeah. You learn to love her better by asking her in the present,

how can I love you better? You're trying to do it through him. You're trying to become him. You can't be. Yeah, yeah. You learn to love her better by asking her in the present, how can I love you better? You're trying to do it through him. You're trying to become him. You can't be. Yeah, yeah. Why are you, why are you, I'm sounding accusational. I don't mean to be. What is it about you that you don't think you're worth being the lens that you want

to be loved through? It's a good question. Or why do you keep inserting him as the lens into the glasses that you're wearing with which you see her? Like I said, I'm not really sure why I do it. I mean- What's it protecting you from? sure why I do it. I mean, what's it protecting you from? What's it protecting me from? Bringing him into it, being my son and just putting my whole self into the relationship, being myself. And what's a possibility that could happen if you put your whole self into this?

I become so vulnerable and she doesn't accept me. There we go. Yeah. That's it. Exhale on that. Sit on it. The only way love works. and she doesn't accept me. There you go. Yeah. That's it. Exhale on that. Sit on it. Yeah.

The only way love works, the only way a long-term romantic relationship works is if both people say, this is all of me. Do you still love me? And if somebody says this is most of me, but I got to keep this over here to the side or this is enough of me. Ultimately that relationship fails. It either fails with two people who just decide to be roommates forever or it fails. Somebody goes and finds somebody else because they need oxygen and the other person's withholding

oxygen. So I think what you're feeling for like a first time grown up, how old are you? I'm 24. Yeah, first time grown up. I could actually make plans with this person. We have a long term high school girlfriend. You're not thinking like we could get married. You're having that thought now, right?

We could make a family. We could have kids, buy a house together. You're realizing how terrifying that proposition is. And so I think your terror is very well earned. I think it's grossly unfair to, to, to lay that at the feet of her deceased boyfriend from three years ago. Yeah. And it's unfair for her to carry your insecurity.

100%. Have you ever sat down with her and said, I think you're pretty amazing and I just wonder if I'm enough? I have. What'd she say? You're amazing. Does she lie to you? No, I do not think she's lying to me. Okay. Then I think the thing you need to practice and this isn't a moral issue or a character or a defect issue this is a this is a skill set issue something got a practice you've never shot free throws you got to shoot free throws that's just kind of it you have to practice sitting uncomfortably when she says I love you and you're it doesn't feel like it yet. Or it feels scary.

And over time, you'll feel more comfortable. Because one thing I do, like you just said, it could be a skill set issue, like lack of experience, but sometimes, you know, like I said again, it's me. It's all just my own insecurity part. If she does, you know, she says she loves me and it's like, huh, do you really? Like, you know, it's, and I know she does. In my heart of hearts, I know she does. But think of it this way. That's your mind taking two hands and shoving away somebody who's trying to hug you.

Yeah. Don't do that. I don't wanna do that. It's violent, right? Don't do that. I don't want to. It's violent, right? Don't do that. And also, it's probably worth the time. It's probably worth your effort and it's probably got roots all the way back into when you were younger. But there's a reason why your mind and nervous system are trying to protect you. Maybe you got hurt

real bad when you were a kid. hurt real bad when you were a kid. Maybe mom laughed when you were a kid. Maybe dad was supposed to love you and he did. Like, I don't know. Maybe your older sister or older brother, who knows? But somewhere back in there, your body learned that true vulnerability will get you squashed. Or it's never experienced it ever.

It's never experienced the peace of being fully seen and fully loved, which is what you should get from your parents. And so for whatever reason, when this new amazing relationship, this new young woman says, hey, no, I love you, you're amazing.

Your body's instinct, your nervous system, your chest, your instinct is to shove her away. So we're gonna practice not shoving her away. We're going to practice saying these words, I believe you. We're going to practice consciously pulling our shoulders down. We're going to practice consciously smiling. I believe you.

I believe you. And she's going to hold your hands up in the desert, even when you don't have the strength and energy to do it, and you're going to hold your hands up in the desert, even when you don't have the strength and energy to do it, and you're going to learn. And if you keep thinking of him and you keep bringing him back up in your mind, I want you to go see a counselor, go see a therapist, go talk to somebody. Because again, it's your body trying to protect you. But I think we need to let this young man who passed away, let's let him go rest.

He's done enough work. And he doesn't, he's gonna be present in her heart and especially in her heartbreak forever. She's gonna be part of her. It's different than love, but he's gonna be part of her life story. But he's not yours to pick up and use as glasses to view her and your relationship and your self-worth.

He doesn't, that's not his job. Your job is to make peace and then begin to find strength and confidence in who you are and what you want, what you need and what love you can bring to the table. And most importantly, what love you can accept. Thanks for the call my brother. I really appreciate you reaching out man. Practice these things and head into it.

Sometimes the scariest, hardest thing to do is just to trust the person looking at us saying, no, no, no, I choose you. We look behind our shoulder to see who they're talking to and realize they're talking to us. So we're going to practice accepting it. Because you're worth being loved, my brother. We'll be right back. I've been looking for someone I could team up with

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after my husband's relapse and betrayal when I'm afraid I will never fully recover? Hmm. I have an immediate thought, but I'm gonna hold. I'm gonna hold. Tell me what happened. So my husband had about almost two decades sober. He relapsed and I went through his phone, found some inappropriate messages with his

ex-girlfriend from when we were dating before we got engaged and then some other women and then also found some messages from since we've been married of just validating other women and stuff like that. So I feel like this has opened up a whole other can of worms. Validating like, no, you're beautiful or no, I love you or send me nude pics. What do you mean when you say validating? Telling them they're beautiful or really awesome and that any guy would be lucky to have you

and stuff like that and In is that in violation of you yes, okay And I say that I just told somebody else like I just told the caller before you the exact words you're worth being loved Right, which is very validating but you're saying this, this is in a secretive romantic relationship, or like he's receiving validation from other people. Yes. Yeah. And it was definitely secretive and behind my back and crossed a very clear boundary.

Okay. Okay. So when you say the words, I may never fully recover, what do you mean? Usually when my trust is broken, just historically, that's really hard to get back, whether it's been in a romantic relationship or friends or family. I felt like I could always, you know, come like recover from a relapse in terms of building our trust back. But when it involves,

when there's another door that's been opened with potential cheating before we were married, that kind of changes things for me. And I'm afraid that I can't ever build that trust back, no matter how hard he's willing to try. Okay. So did you find out he cheated on you while you were engaged? I have a really um, the text messages make it seem that way. I, I, he doesn't know that I have found that information. Okay, um, how long have you all been married? Uh, three years. Three years.

Can I just exhale with you for a second? I'm sorry, this is, this is the worst. for a second. I'm sorry. This is the worst. Like watching somebody you love hurt and go to rehab is pain, pain, pain. And then while you're gone, finding out there's a secret life behind your back, then in some situations may put you at risk, like your health and safety at risk. That's devastating, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I know it was before we were married, but- Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Yeah. In fact, in many ways that can make your marriage feel like it was built on a house of distrust. I mean, a house of distrust. I mean, a house of lies, right?

Yeah, exactly. And it feels like I went in with pure intentions and a pure heart and he didn't, so it hurts. So just for whatever it's worth, your pain is right. Thank you. You're not crazy. I don't think you recover from this. I think you decide I'm going to build something new or I'm not. Recovering means something has happened that you're somehow less than.

And I don't think that's true. Like you recover from a broken arm because something on you is broken. I think you're good. I think the marriage that you thought you had is over. The question is, am I going to build a new one or not? Yeah, I feel like our dynamic has changed definitely. No, listen to me. Listen to me.

Listen to me. The marriage you had is over. It doesn't exist. Okay. You'll have to decide to build something new because if you spend a ton of energy trying to get back what was and he tries to wallpaper over everything to get back to what was I'm telling you right now what was never existed. It wasn't what you thought it was. He was with somebody else. He's not the man that you thought you married.

Character wise, strength wise, integrity wise, your life is different now. The thing you had is over. What you have to ask yourself is, am I going to build something new or not? And you can't build something new with somebody who's actively using substance abuse. And you can't build something new with somebody who is not telling the full truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help them God. That's it. That's the only way you got to clear the deck. And by the way, you have to tell the full truth.

I went looked in your phone. Here's what I've seen. I've seen everything. But I've seen. I've seen everything. But I don't think I've seen everything actually. I think I've only seen a part of it. I don't know you. I'm disgusted by you. My heart is broken and you broke it.

And I don't know if I want to build something new with you. Like you have to be that open too. Yeah. Because if you hedge it, there's going to be, that's the sea, that's the soil with from which resentment grows. Because you start burying parts of yourself so that you can get to the next thing. Right? Right. So is he home from rehab? He will be home in two weeks., he will be in two weeks. He'll be home in two weeks. Huh?

Do you get to go visit him? Uh, yes. Yeah. How have those visits been? Um, they've been good. I, um, for the most part they've been good. I definitely, he can sense that something has changed in me because it's hard for me to be vulnerable after seeing things like that.

Hard for me to be my normal self with what I know now. But I do plan on being very, very transparent and open about everything that I found. Can I make two recommendations? Please, yes. Recommendation number one, and this is gonna sound strange that suddenly I'm flipping teams here.

But you're going to visit him in rehab as the lights of his life are coming back on and you keeping this deep dark secret that you know now is cruel. Don't do that to him. Okay. Because he's going to think there's something innately wrong. Okay. It will be very disorienting and you might want to get him back. Like you caused me this much pain. I'm gonna cause you pain in here. You're stuck in here and

you're gonna be wondering what I'm thinking about if I found somebody new. Like whatever is whatever stories he's ginning up there because he's stuck in rehab. There's an integrity that I want you to keep a hole in this process. You were not treated with dignity and respect, but that will not take your dignity and respect from you. Does that make sense? Yeah. So I've always been a person who tells the truth. I will continue to be a person who tells the truth. The second piece of wisdom is I don't know if you're allowed to do this, but if possible, I would reach out to his case manager. And here's why. And I would, I to his case manager. And here's why. And I think there's a possibility

that he hears this in rehab from you. And there's a counselor there that can help mediate the conversation. And he's got some support and structure before he comes back out thinking his world is healing and it just exists, it's laying in pieces all over his living room floor. Right. And it may be that his social worker says I'm gonna ask you please don't bring this up right now he's too fragile and he won't make it

through this. Okay. You get what I'm saying? Because I know part of you doesn't want to blow his life up right now. Right. Because you're worried about him. Yes. Yeah absolutely I am. I know I can't control the things he does or how he reacts but it doesn't take away from any bit of fear that I hold. That's right. Yeah. Do you have a number of a case manager you can call? I do. Yeah. So I would ask that that person speak confidentially that you can speak confidentially to them and they may not be able to.

They may say, hey, he's my client actually, but hopefully they'll use their professional discretion and wisdom and judgment. But I would call that person and say, here's what I found. We're going to have to do a confrontation. I'm going to have to sit down and decide if I want to stay married to this person. And rest assured, they're going through that stuff inside. Right? They're walking through amends, they're walking through truth telling, they're going through that stuff inside right they're walking through amends or walking through truth-telling they're walking

through you may get out of here and your and your partner leaves you like that that they're gonna be talking about that stuff inside but it's just different when it happens can I ask you a personal question absolutely. Are you done? With the marriage? Mm-hmm. I don't know. I... What's your gut tell you? That it will never be the same.

Exactly what you said. It will. That building fell down. It's over. Yeah. Are you going to build a new building? Or not going to? I... Something in me says I have to try. Okay.

What's that something? It could be God, it could be arrogance, it could be ego, it could be love. What is that something? Probably love, most likely it's love, but it's also, I can't, sorry. You're okay, You're okay. Something about throwing away a marriage with this person who is my best friend and just breaks my heart. Yeah. Especially if he's doing everything to fix it and build it back up.

And I can't, but I feel like I'm betraying him now. And I think that's one of the demons of infidelity is it makes the person who got cheated on feel insane. Right? Yeah, I mean I felt crazy about it because I never had any worry. There was no reason for me to ever think. It was like a punch to the gut because there weren't any signs that I knew of. And that's, I talk about this a lot on the show, but that to me is one of the, I mean there's the initial betrayal and there's a lack of safety, right? If you're sleeping

with somebody else and you're sleeping with me, I don't know what you're bringing into this, into this relationship, right? Oh yeah. But I think one of the terrifying aspects of it is you didn't see it and you lose trust in Jenna. Like if I can't see that he's having multiple relationships with multiple people under my roof, you feel crazy.

It's the, I wrote down in the journal, it's the ease of lying that someone could so nonchalantly and easily lie and tell a story that is so, the way they talk about it and look me in the eye is so believable. And I beat and look me in the eye it's so believable and I beat myself up that I didn't see that. And you got married to somebody who's been wrestling with addiction. The greatest truthbender is on planet Earth. And so I think writing I mean I'm glad that you have a journaling practice.

I think writing something down and finding a situation where you can read it to him. And if you know, I want to fix this, but there's gonna, there's gonna, we're gonna have to rebuild trust from the, from the basement up. Begin to think through what would it take for that. No phones, no social media, no this. If I see alcohol again, what is a path going to look like? By the way, your path can change every 10 days. I thought I was going to be okay with this.

I'm not okay with this. I thought you get to set the ground rules and he used to decide whether he's in or out But There's a cruelty to We just have to rebuild this thing and he's like, okay, whatever it takes, you know move back in the same house Very quickly everything goes back to the way it was And so there's got to be some level of me thinking through, okay, if I'm going to stay in this, here's what must be true. And you can make a list of 200 things, you can make a list of 800 things, you can make

a list of three things. Here's what must be true. Here's the ground rules for redesigning and rebuilding. No, not re here's the here's the ground rules for building, for designing, for constructing a new home. Because you burned our other home to the ground. It's gone. So if you and I are going to get in a room and meet with an architect and meet with a design crew and interior designers and a construction team and we're going to rebuild this thing, here's what must be true. Sorry that you're going to rebuild this thing. Here's what must be true.

Sorry that you're going through this Jenna. He's lucky to have somebody walking alongside him and loving him like you do. My hope for you is you don't lose yourself in this process trying to make this thing work. My hope is it empowers you and emboldens you that what you want matters, what integrity matters, strength and compassion and kindness matters and integrity, integrity, integrity matters. Thank you for the call, Jenna call anytime. We'll be right back. All right, you know this, I'm a founding member of the Anti-Internet Club. I think I'm the only member, but listen, I'm all over the internet these days.

You are too. And as a society, we're creating more and more online accounts all the time. We're signing up for promos, giving away our email addresses. We're buying everything with our phones. I get hundreds of emails to my personal account trying to sell me stuff, all kinds of stuff, and I hate it. And I also know it's not going away anytime soon, which is why I'm happy to use and recommend Delete Me. With all of our online activity,

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Hey, Dr. John, how are you this morning? I'm doing all right, how about you? I'm doing pretty well. Awesome, what's up? So my question is, how to best help my daughter and protect the family when she has, and has had since she was probably about 10,

maybe earlier. Extreme anger outburst. They could be connected to borderline personality disorder according to some of the research I've done. I don't know exactly what it is, but it's been pretty destructive in lives, hers and ours. Well, how do I help her?

How do I protect people? And also how do I deal with my own trauma when those things come up? Thanks for calling. There's a couple of variables here. How old is she? She is 28. Are there little ones involved?

She have kids? She has three. How old is she? She is 28. Are there little ones involved? She have kids? She has three. How old are they? 11, 8 and 5. Is she married? She is not married. She has been with her current partner for 10 years. 10 years.

But he is not the father of these kids? He is the father of the younger two, the oldest one. She does not have custody of, but she does get some time with her. Why doesn't she have custody? Because she and the father were married and things blew up a number of times. She ended up leaving a little over a year after the marriage and did not bring the baby with her. And really didn't pursue custody. So she doesn't have custody? Almost always if a mom doesn't have custody, there's physical

abuse or there is substance abuse. But in this case, she just left her kid. Right. Okay. Not really. There's, um, at that point in her life, I don't think there was any substance abuse. There were some physical violence with her husband at the time. They divorced pretty soon after that.

He was violent with her or vice versa? I think it was mutual. Okay. So I guess there's multiple layers here. She's a 28 year old. So I guess there's multiple layers here. She's a 28 year old. So if you ask me, how do I protect the family? And you're talking about you and her other siblings and aunts and uncles, you protect

them by not having somebody who's physically volatile around. If you're asking me about the kids, her kids, then we react very directly and very swiftly to protect children in all cases even if it's going to cost us a relationship with another adult because we protect kids. That's what we do. Yeah and allow me to clarify a little bit. She's not, when I talk about, um, outbursts and explosions and things, um, for the most part, except with her, with, um, the, except with her first husband and her partner, she is not violent like she's not violent with her kids. Um, I've been really closely associated with the family

for a really long time. So I feel like you're speaking really at 30,000 feet. Take me, land it for me. She, she explodes verbally. She swears at people, she screams at people, she curses, she makes, she goes for the jugular and says hurtful things. What does that mean? Yes, all of that.

And she says vile things, kind of like her dad did with me. Just really personal attacks, personal attacks. She doesn't confine it to the person, she expands it to everyone she knows that they care about. It's really difficult. Why do you continue to wade into another adult treating you that way? adult treating you that way? Um, she is my daughter. I do know about a lot of the experience that she had. Tell me about her experience. Um, so I was married for about 14 years to her dad.

He did the same thing. Her grandma on his side has the same propensities and I've seen that from her as well. I understand that there's probably a genetic component to this. One of the things that I'd like to understand is, um, I know I'm not answering your question quite, but I would like to understand if there's more. When we're talking mental illness, but I wasn't aware of when I married him. Talk right into your phone for me. Okay. Sorry. Okay. When I married him a long time ago, I had no idea about mental illness and it was a really long, really traumatic

marriage. But I saw her get hurt by him specifically and I feel like, and I'm working on protecting myself, or I'm sorry, not protecting myself, but forgiving myself for not protecting my kids. Have you told her that? I'm sorry, say that again. Have you told her that? Yes. How did she receive it? Flipently, usually.

Okay. So let me clarify a few things for you. Mental health disorders, I categorize those differently than emotional health disorders. Regardless of the disorder you have, you don't hurt kids, period. And so I don't care how somebody's mom treated them

and how they in turn treated your kid, their daughter. I don't care the lineage on that. You don't hurt kids. There's not an excuse for it. A borderline personality disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar, those are contexts, not an excuse. Because if as an adult you can't control your rage and you scream and yell and hit a child, it's the other adult's job to protect that kid. Right.

But it never makes it okay or I understand or well actually he has a, I don't care. I could care less what somebody has. You don't say that to kids. You don't hurt kids. And so number one, I don't, it sounds like unless I miss something, there's not been psychiatric intervention with your daughter. You've gotten online and asked some people and tried to figure out what she might have

to explain her behavior. I don't care about any internet diagnostics. She has had psychiatric treatment evaluation. Does she have diagnostics? What has she been diagnosed with? She has been diagnosed with severe anxiety, depression, and she has been diagnosed as bipolar. Okay.

When was the last time she was diagnosed as bipolar? I believe it's probably been, oh goodness, six or seven years. She has had, part of the challenge of this, Dr. John, is that she has been to psychiatrists and psychologists and counselors, and she does do a lot of... A lot to help herself to grow and to grow out of the trauma that she has experienced.

And so most of the time in public situations anyway, and even at my house, she doesn't explode anymore. Okay. But she's much more comfortable at her house. And so I've just- I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. Okay.

I don't, you don't explode on your, on pieces of you, your children because you're more comfortable. No, no, no. My guess... It's her partner that she explodes on the most. Okay. My guess is home, that her body put little GPS pins in home growing up. Home has never been a place of peace and safety.

Ever. And so when she goes home, The most important, the most valuable, the most developmentally critical male relationship in her life was her father, was the one who imparted most of the direct pain. Then the leap, her body has to learn, her nervous system has to learn how to be in the presence of another grown man who says the words, I love you, and she can receive it.

And so my guess is she doesn't feel like she's like, ah, I can put my guard down at home. It's the exact opposite. When she goes home and that front door closes, she's at war. Even if she knows that this guy's safe and loves her and been together 10 years. I think that it's I think that it's possible and probable that he is probably the safest person for her. She they talk about everything, but she displays some of the things that I,

that her dad did too, where she's just scared all the time that he's going to cheat, which he is not. He's ultra loyal, as one would need to be, to be with her. And but- So tell me how I can help you. Cause we can't help her. She's not on the phone. How can I help you? Okay.

So it has been a long journey with her. And what I would like to know is as her mom and someone who has decided, I have been doing therapy myself, I have a lot over the years. Some of the trauma is coming up as I do some therapy and I am trying to figure out how to help her because because this is this is the life-time thing and I don't know enough about

Whatever the mental health issues she has what could benefit her? I understand boundaries. We, we work really hard on those. Um, you're not going to like my answer. Can I be direct? Please. Is it okay? You can't give her something that she doesn't want from you. And she's, if she's not asking for your help, you trying to go back and You can't give her something that she doesn't want from you.

And if she's not asking for your help, you trying to go back and heal the past with future behaviors is an impossible task. And what you end up doing is giving her more work to do. I'm so sorry, there's a crow right there. I can go away from it a little bit. So you are carrying around an immense amount of guilt for what happened as a kid, when she was a kid. And looking back, there's lots of woulda, coulda, shouldas.

And I would agree with you. You should have done things differently. But it's easy for me to armchair quarterback this thing 20 years later. I'm not going to do that to you. What I will tell you is the only thing on planet earth you can deal with is what happens next. Not trying to figure out ways to duct tape and wallpaper and stitch up what happened in the past.

I'm not quite sure that I'm trying to do that. What I'm trying to figure out is now. And what I'm trying to figure out is what to do now. Go have breakfast with her every week. We have a lot of contact. We have the kids over frequently. It's different, Anita, that's different. And let's be honest.

If everything I put on the table, you're gonna be like, well, I already do that. It's not what I mean. What you're doing right now isn't bringing you peace. So you're gonna have to do something different. Having the kids over and having quote unquote contact is different than every week you and her going to get coffee together.

One of those is you have a job, she's got a job, you get in the routine, you get in the dance, the kids come around and play, you kind of have hearted with them. It's a numbing device. It's awesome and it's good and it's long-term relationship building. Those kids are gonna have fond memories of grandma's house.

But that's not the same thing as every week you and daughter go look across the table from each other at a diner and say, how are you? Because right now she's not calling you saying, mom, I keep blowing up on my partner. I keep screaming at this man. How do I stop this? She's not doing that.

She doesn't say, how do I stop this? She does call and say all those. She gives me all the details. She doesn't say, how do I stop? Okay. I have a rule in my life that I don't answer questions I'm not asked. And I also draw pretty firm lines.

If I'm not being invited into bad, into ugly, rude, destructive, soul crushing behavior, I will say, Hey, I don't want to be a part of this. Or maybe I might occasionally ask the old Dr. Phil line, how's that working for you? But listen, you can say all the right things. It doesn't matter. Her healing will have to come. Y'all's relationship will have to be healed from the nervous system out, from the inside out.

And that can only be done, that cannot be done with words. That can't be done with, she calls you once a week and throws Grenades at you or tells you about the grenade. She threw somebody else She absolves herself and goes right back in it will be solved with gentle over and over and over consistent showing up and showing up and showing up It's very not sophisticated. It's very not Like highbrow It's very not sophisticated. It's very not like high brow. I do.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to- No, no. Keep going. Keep going. ... throw something else in there, but we are in contact. I mean, she texts first thing in the morning. Generally, she calls in the morning. She calls in the morning. Generally she calls in the morning. She calls in the afternoon.

We have contact all the time. That's part of why I know so much, which is awesome. I have been very deliberate and intentional about cultivating relationships and faith relationship with her. I'm so you're saying in part that change happens with that intentional deliberate contact and it's not what I'm saying at all. Actually, there's a strong difference, significant difference between communication and connection. Y'all are communicating all the time. Text message, phone call, dropping the kids off. That is different than, that is Twinkies and gummy candies to steak and salad. When we connect, part of the challenge is that I make her angry. That's it.

That's the place to lean in. And that might mean you sit down with her and say, I would love it if you came to a relationship counselor with me. You're the most important relationship I have left in this world. And her body is GPS pins, probably in y'all's connected relationship. And so hiding from those or pretending they don't exist because we communicate via text message between phone calls where she just talks nonstop, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk and hangs up. Listen, I can text my wife, I love you a hundred times today.

She will get that data, she'll get that information. Her body will not exhale until I walk through the door and she sees me across the room, drop my bag with no phone in my hand and smile and say I'm so glad I'm home. Then her soul, her nervous system will rest. Do you get the difference? I do and I wonder how to how to be a restful place, a more restful place for her

with all these GPS pins that she has. You have to heal yours. Working on it. I know, I know. So how do I... When there's another traumatic event that brings up the memories of all the other traumatic events, and there have been a lot... One of the things that my current therapist says that I am really having a hard time with is you just talk about it. I found that when I just talk about it, I... It makes it harder to live. It makes it harder to not carry anxiety. It makes it harder to how do you how do I do I had to personally go sit down with somebody who specializes in trauma care and bodywork there's some people that think it's a woo-woo I happen to believe in it really strongly

that trauma gets stored in your body doesn't get stored in your words. And so for me I had somebody who was specially trained and they have those in California specially trained in trauma therapy and it required me to go back through hell but she was with me she had her hand on my shoulder she had her hand on my elbow she had her hand on my shoulder. She had her hand on my elbow. She had her hand on my hand. And it was the first time in my life somebody touched me and they didn't want something from me. But what my body learned over time was it wasn't safe then, but it's safe now.

And I have not found anybody anywhere that can talk their way into safety. No, and that has been my challenge. Part of my therapy has been two or three years in a room with someone, but I have anxiety attacks when it comes to that. Okay. I mean, when it comes to talking, like revisiting, going back to some of those things and I don't know how to resolve those except that the ways that I know to resolve them. Yeah, but the way your body is trying to resolve them hasn't worked. Correct. And so we have to deal with the anxiety and we, that means the way you deal with anxiety

is directly through it. So maybe it's not you talking, just walking right in and ripping the wound open. All right, tell me what happened. That's horrific therapy, by the way. Almost all good therapy when you're dealing with hard trauma starts with a season of teaching you skills on regulation, on breathing, on exhale, on how to tap your legs, on how to think through, how to process, let things move through you so that when you get to the hard parts, you've got a set of skills underneath you.

And I think more importantly, you've developed a sense of safety with another person in the room with you. That's how your body, our bodies are regulated with other people. And so we can only ever truly feel safe if the person we're in the room with or people were in the room with are also safe.

You can't just be in the room with some cold shoulder saying, all right, well then what happened? And you go through it, your body's gonna start ringing every alarm bell it has. And so what I would tell you is, if you've been seeing somebody for two years and you have panic attacks, thinking about going to see them, stop,

listen to your body. No, that was, I was in the past thing. Okay. Is this making sense? Like you have to decide this. Here's what I think it comes down to, Anita. You have to decide. I lived and experienced hell.

Was married to a very very very abusive evil man. And my daughter was there too. And I didn't... I would do anything to go back and protect her, get her out of there, get me out of there there and I can't because what has happened has happened has appeared at the end And now I'm watching my daughter both recreate in some minor way what happened what she experienced and I'm reaching for her in the dark, but my body is still scared to death about what happens next And if you can metabolize that reality, then you can come to the belief that you're not going to therapy as punishment for what happened or what you didn't do years ago.

You're going to counseling, you're going to therapy, you're doing the trauma work so that because you're worth it, so that you can have a peaceful rest of your life. Because I think what's happened is your daughter is trying desperately to plug into you and it's still electric. Because you still have the shame and you still have the guilt and you still have the trauma so close to the surface. And you think all you're worth is some text messages and her calling you and yelling at you and you're worth so much more than that. You're worth peace. And that also means you've got to set down the bricks of shame that you've been carrying

for so long. You've got to set them down. And when you get anxious, you've got to get with somebody who's trained and go right through the anxiousness, not around and go right through the anxiousness not around it right through it Sometimes that is not talking about your traumatic situation But maybe hearing somebody read a story or maybe drawing a picture first but slowly heading into it And I personally have experienced Bodywork related to trauma I personally have experienced body work related to trauma.

I personally have witnessed seeing EMDR. I've met with countless students who have learned EMDR and brain spotting and tapping. All these different modalities, all these different techniques. All I have to say is there's ways that you process this through your body and then you move through it. But the goal has to be on the other end. I'm setting this down. I'm not carrying it anymore. His influence on my life is going to end.

He is going to stop impacting every minute of every hour of every day of my life. And I have a goal that I want peace. I wanna be able to fall asleep at night. I wanna be able to reconnect with my daughter. That's the path here and that's the story here. It's easy to get stuck in a loop. It's easy to say I've been trying and it's not working.

It's not working. Okay, if what you're doing is not working, good. You got more data. Let's try something else. And if you've been with somebody for two years and they still make you have a panic attack, cool. I'm going to go see somebody else. This isn't working.

But the goal is going to be he controls my life. Not one second more. Then I'm going to go run head first, screaming out into the field to grab my daughter. And I'm not going to try to go heal her quote unquote mental health issues. I'm not going to Google what's wrong with her. I'm going to be a safe, peaceful place for her. I'm going to work as hard as I can to get to that place. Cause you're both worth it.

Thanks for the call Anita. We'll be right back. All right, before we get back to the show, let's talk about Organifi. Listen, health and wellness is an adventure and a journey. It's not a destination. You can never eat so great or work out so hard on one particular day that you're good for the next month.

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Hey, thanks for joining us today. I wish your new year's gonna be, I hope your new year's off to an amazing start. We're gonna do a special segment during the next show about what I'm doing this new year and what I wanna challenge you all to do in the new year. And don't forget, this show can be streamed, the video and the audio in the Ramsey Network app and you can get the

shows a week early if you just can't wait. You can get them a week early in the Ramsey Network app so get everything early exclusive and for free by clicking the link in the show notes and downloading the Ramsey Network app today. If you go out to eat this week I I want you to prepare. Go prepared. And I want you to tip outrageously. I want you to tip obnoxiously. And I want you to leave a note that says, I saw you and I'm grateful for your hard work. Thank you for showing up for me.

Thank you for showing up for me and my date. Thank you for showing up for me and my family. And I want you to give somebody at the beginning of this new year a little extra light, a little grape viney torter, it says some coal in the furnace to help get their train a little bit further down the track. We're going to change everything this year with a bunch of tiny wins. We're going to pick up trash. We're going to tip really well.

We're going to let other people walk in front of us in the door. We're gonna say thank you. We're gonna do the workout and we don't want to. We're gonna not get that extra handful of candy. That was for me. And if you're Kelly, you're not gonna get any more tattoos. You're done. You gotta be done. Your liver is like, I can't process any more foreign bodies. We're gonna change everything this year. Tiny win by tiny win. I love you guys. Stay in school.

Don't do drugs. Bye. Hey, what up? What up? Listen, the latest episode of my docu-series, United States of Anxiety, is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app. Each episode follows a caller from my show on a 90 day journey to transform their life. You want to know the cool part?

I personally walk alongside them throughout it all. This episode features Kelsey, whose battle with severe anxiety is putting her most important relationships at risk. And you can only watch this show on the Ramsey Network app. So make sure you download the app and dive in right now. And while you're there, you can also binge episodes of the Dr. John Delaney show on demand and other Ramsey Network shows like the Ramsey show. And did I mention this app is free? Go ahead and download the Ramsey Network app right now.

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