The Dr. John Delony Show - How Can I Be a Better Husband and Father?

Episode Date: July 25, 2022

On today’s show, we hear from a man seeking change after admitting to being a terrible husband and father, a woman wondering how to support her best friend who’s dying of cancer, and a woman tired of protecting her mom after she gets burned in abusive relationships. Then, we get a to talk to a former caller’s husband who’s been struggling with suicidal thoughts. Lyrics of the Day: "Brother" - Needtobreathe Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Feels like those who have promised to help me through this stuff, I don't mean my wife or my family. It feels like everything is reinforcing the idea that in this I'm totally alone. Why struggle through it anymore and just kind of end it, you know? Woo! What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Talking about your mental health, your relationships, and your life, and the good stuff and the hard stuff, whatever's going on. If you want to be on the greatest mental health show ever, says my mom. Actually, she liked Dr. Phil better, I think. If you want to be on the second or third greatest mental health show ever, give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash ask.

Today's a special show. We've got somebody calling in later on in the show that I'm looking forward to. Kind of called his bluff and he called mine back. Or I challenged him, he called my bluff and I'm excited to talk to him. So hang with us this entire show.

It's going to be a powerful one. Let's go straight to the phones. Let's go to Michael in Buffalo. What's up, Michael? What's up, Michael? What's up, dude? Oh, goodness. A lot. A lot.

What's up, man? So the reason I wanted to talk to you is my question is, I haven't been a good husband or father, and my wife now who I've been with for five years, is at wit's end, and I want to be that man that she deserves, and I fail miserably in every step that I try to do anything. Well, first, thanks for being brave.

Usually these kind of calls end up with me coming at you a little bit. Is that cool? Yes, sir. All right. I'm straight up with that. Cool. Um, well, thanks for, thanks for being open, man. I know that's not an easy thing to say, to look in the mirror and put both hands on the

counter and look in the mirror and say, I'm, I'm, I'm not the man and the husband and the, and the dad I want to be. So thanks for starting there. Um, what does that mean that you're not good? Uh, well, she's my, uh, she's my second wife. My, my first marriage, uh, ended pretty bad just because I wasn't faithful, uh, to her and, uh, and multiple times. So it was basically a serial cheater and liar. And, um, and then I went on just to basically live it how I wanted to. And then I met my wife now.

And some of those same traits or aspects are coming back out. You know, at times I'm not truthful or, you know, I lie. And it's not just that I lie. But then when I lie, I guess I go slight and try to make her believe my lie and and uh you know i've been unloyal to her in ways of you know talking about things with that relationship involving her but putting the blame more on her than myself and uh you know even to the point where a lot of things she says you know it just appears that i'm selfish and narcissistic and you know i lack you know empathy and haven't been faithful to her infidelity. It's not that I've cheated on her.

I haven't cheated on her. I think you have. I think you have. Yeah. I mean, she said it. I've not physically cheated on her, but at the beginning, I did talk to other women, but then that stopped. But then financially, I have shown infidelity emotionally.

And she's a great woman. She straight up tells me how it is. And she reminds me of a female version of you. Hey, hold on. Let's start. This only works if you're honest with me. Yes, sir. Have you cheated on your wife?

I have not. Absolutely not. And I've told her that. And of course, she doesn't believe me because I've, that's one area that, and I've told her like, like I've learned my lesson in that. She makes me happy. She fulfills me. And I know, you know, she's not, she's not the issue. And your first wife wasn't the issue. Exactly.

I've been the issue. For some reason you believe that you're not good enough. Why? Yeah, well, it's, I mean, I have things from my past that, uh, I've brought up for years in my first marriage. I, uh, I never, I never brought it up until going to counseling with my first wife. And, uh, even my parents never knew I was, I was molested as a child. I held that in by neighbor boy who babysat me and I held that in for all those years. And, uh, you know, as far as like the, the, the ACEs score, like I've done that, like I've done a score high on that. So it's, you know, my parents are together. I, you know, have a good family. Um, I'm the only one in the that. So my parents are together. I have a good family.

I'm the only one in the family divorced. My siblings are married and happy. I know, but listen, listen, listen. When you have something like that, then your body learns that there is no safety in trusting relationships. Right. And so when you have a trusting relationship, everything in your body says run, says discomfort. It sounds every alarm you got.

It does. And one of the ways to shut the alarms off is alcohol. And one of the ways to shut the alarms off is to go achieve, just start running, right? Work 90 hours a week. And one of the ways to shut the alarms off is to go sleep with someone else. Or if you're not technically sleeping with somebody else, another way to shut the alarms off is to start texting somebody and texting somebody and texting somebody. Because you get that little bitty, it feels good, right? It feels like you're alive for a second, right?

Yes. Yes, sir, it did. So think of it this way. And again, I'm being super simplistic here, but let's just say one story equals one action. Okay? Yes. Your body knows that intimate relationships are going to get you hurt.

And so when you enter into one, it covers you up with those big, heavy weighted blankets. Right. And you can't breathe and you get scared and you don't like who you become.

Right. And then you go chase excitement. Right. And ultimately, my guess is you've beat yourself up pretty bad over the last few years. And to be honest with you, rightfully so, because you're treating these women who loved you like garbage, right? Yes. you're running through this cycle that you believe that you're not good enough and the truth isn't good enough. And so you confirm it by your actions, right? That you're not a good dad, you're not a good husband. And then you just do the things that backfill that

story and make it right. And so I think Jenna told me you read the book. You read my book. Did that rattle your cage at all? Did you roll your eyes at it? No, I didn't read it. I actually listened to it online through one of the library services. It was good. It was really good. And I shared it with my wife.

And my wife loves you. She listens. We both listen to you all the time. I actually told her about some parts and, you know, how I need to go. I actually want to get the book so I can actually keep notes on it and try to take the steps in there that you've emphasized. What have you tried? What have you tried?

As far as the book goes, I haven't. No, no, no. Fill the book out. Use it for two-ply on a camping trip. I don't care about the book goes, I, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, yeah, and not lying to her about things. And then, you know, of course, at times when I am truthful about things, getting the reactions, I know, you know, either I get the reaction or I'm projecting what the reaction is going to be. And then it basically triggers me into like,

well, I don't want that reaction. So I'm going to say this, so I get a different reaction. And then that lie ultimately triggers a worse reaction. Right. So here's your way forward, man. Here's your way forward. I wish it was more complex than what I'm about to say.

At some point, like an alcoholic has to look in the mirror and say, I want to, but I can never drink again. Yes. Or like me. I want to, but I have a problem with food. I do. And so I have to create an environment where I can only make good choices.

Just it. You have to decide point blank, I will never lie again. You have to decide point blank, I will never cheat again. And then you have to create a world that makes that very, very difficult, and you have to practice it. That's it. I wish it was more complex than that. It's just simply not. And I tell you this as someone who lied a lot. I exaggerated about everything and I watched a professional just implode their life. And it was this weird moment that was, I will never be dishonest again for as long as I live. And it has been really uncomfortable. And when I say practice, here's what that means.

You will lie again. It becomes second nature, right? And you're probably pretty good at it. And it just comes out. You stop either right then or you circle back and you say, I didn't tell you the truth. And you have to tell your wife, I need some grace when I circle back. Here was the rule I gave my students. When I called them in and said, hey, they found a bunch of drugs in your residence hall room.

I would always tell them, before I talk to you, I need you to know you got 24 hours. And I'm going to take it as though you told me the truth now. Because I know what happens when someone just blasts you with an accusation. It's so easy. It's second nature just to go, no, no, no, no, no. If you come back within 24 hours and change your story, I'm going to take it as though you told me that the first time. After 24 hours, I'm going to try to remove you from this campus because you're a dishonest person and I don't want our degree hanging on your wall. Right.

Right? So come up with some sort of contract with your wife and say, I'm going to practice with all that I am to be a person of integrity. And that means there's going to be moments that I fire off with something that's not true, and I need to catch myself in that moment. Or I need that moment to haunt me so bad that I loop back and change it. And I need you to hear me and exhale and say, okay, he's

working hard. Practice not being a cheater means you delete every single woman in your phone that's not your wife now. And you delete social media now. Yes. I don't even have social media.

If you have a problem with pornography and checking out, um, uh, all the various sites for getting into people's living rooms and in their bedroom, then get rid of your computer. You're an addict. Yes. And your addiction is deception And then underneath all of that

At some point you've got to decide That you're not a piece of crap Yeah that's That's the biggest challenge It is You've got to love yourself You've got to You've got to be truthful gotta you gotta, you know,

you gotta be truthful to yourself. But no, you're not truthful to yourself. Yeah, you lie to yourself. You tell yourself that you suck and you tell yourself that you're an idiot and you tell yourself that you're worth the abuse and you should have done something different and now you're the divorced one in the house and you you've got all these stories that you continue to tell yourself over and over and over and over

again. Yes. And you've got to choose to change that story. I also believe, like I told you, the reason I told you actions first is I think we can't just sit, especially as one as deeply and traumatic and entrenched as what you experienced with sexual abuse from an older kid in your neighborhood. I don't think you can think your way out of that. I think you act your way out of that you can think your way out of that. I think you act your way out of that and you act your way out by practicing.

Practice the new behaviors. Right. Okay. And a hundred percent chance you will stumble and fail and fall right on your face. And that's when you become the husband and dad that your wife and kids need because you pick yourself back up and you say, I'm sorry, and then you go again. Yeah. My I'm sorry's have become unheard. They should be. They mean nothing.

Yeah. Right? Right. And so be about reclaiming that word in your home. If you remember listening to the book, and I got this from James Clear, create an identity and backfill your life so that that identity becomes natural.

Meaning, don't try to, I want to bench press 235 pounds. That's a goal. And you'll stumble on that goal. Right. Or you'll get the goal and then so what? You can bench press 235 pounds. Nobody cares.

You're a grown man. Be a person who takes care of their body. Be a person who's a steward of their body. So you're going to be a person who's a great father. And backfilling that identity, I always tell the truth. Always. I don't cheat on my kid's mother. Right.

When I'm having bad days or when my body takes off on me, I had a really hard day yesterday, Michael. You know what I did? I left. I canceled all my meetings and left. Because I knew that I would not be able to be present in conversations and I knew conversations with me, I would be very sharp tongue. I just know that.

It's rare that it happens, but I knew it. And so I took myself out of the situation. Okay. That we're looking for this type of self-awareness here and you don't have it yet. Right. Okay. Yes. So I would ask you, are your kids worth it?

You know, the answer is yes. Is your wife worth it? You know, the answer is yes. The ultimate question is, are you? Yes. Do you believe that, are you? Yes. Do you believe that? Are you lying to me too? I believe it.

I believe it. Okay, will you do the work then? I will definitely do the work. And that's, you know, I've been telling her I'm working on it, but she's like, I don't see it. Yeah, she doesn't. She doesn't. Because I don't think you're working on it. I think you're wanting to work on it. I think you're, it's kind of like every couple of days you skip the donuts in the workroom

and you tell people you're trying to eat better. That's not a plan. Right. Very good point. Right? Yes, sir. That's exactly dead on. Yeah.

You've got to set out an identity. Here's who I'm going to be. Then you've got to backfill those actions. And quite honestly, at this point, I'd bring her along with you. Right. And say, what does real- I don't want to waste any more of her time. But see, that's just, that's what, that goes back to that same,

you just dumped it back in the bucket. You're a waste of somebody's time. You're not. Yeah. You're treating your wife like crap, but you yourself are not a waste of time. Right. You're not a lost cause. And the more you think about, Oh, well, I'll just, that's actually a move, dude. That's a deceptive move. Right. Yeah. And I'm not saying I'm a waste of time. I'm saying I don't want to waste her time. Then don't, then don't, then don't. You get to

choose that. Right. Right? Yes, sir. Don't waste your time. Exactly right. Don't waste your time. Sit down and say, what does rebuilding trust look like? And if you would like, I'll clip this call and we'll send it to you. It doesn't come out for a while, but we'll clip it to you and send it to you. And you and your wife can listen to it tonight or tomorrow.

She would absolutely love it. Okay. So here's what I need you to do. Y'all both need to sit at a table and she's got to put some hard boundaries on you because this is just going to go and it's going to go

and it's going to go and your second marriage is going to end up just like your first one. Right. Don't do that to her. Don't do that to you. Don't do that to those kids.

Right. I will never lie again. And when I do, I will admit it, I will own it and I will practice circling back out of it. And I'm going to let her speak into how do I get out. I will never be disloyal and dishonorable to my wife again. Period. I will CC her on every text, on every email I send to another woman.

I will come home. She will see the bank accounts. We will share bank accounts. If you don't already, that happens today. I'm going to do these things that will show this is who I am. And this is who I am becoming. This is who I'm on the road to be. And give her some voice into what trust looks like. And then she's going to have a role to play too, because she's going to have to be graceful because you're trying something that you have not been successful with for a long, time and if ultimately you got to go get some counseling to deal with that childhood trauma which is a big one i don't care what your a score is that's a huge thing to get some healing with that do it but i'm gonna tell you i'm set i'm bifurcating i'm separating that from your actions you can stop cheating and you can stop lying

and you can't stop stop being dishonest with your money and with your wife, all that stuff. And you have to deal with your childhood stuff. It's all, it's, it's, it can be braided together. I'm pulling it apart. Choose to be different, my brother. Call me back after that meeting. Let me know how that meeting goes. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new

homebuyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades. And their home buyer edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress. Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillmortgage.com slash deloney and get the home buyer edge today.

All right, we're back. Let's go to Beth in Tucson, Arizona. What's up, Beth? Hi, how's it going? We are rocking on. How are you? Good, you know, just trying to stay cool. Oh, yeah, you're in Arizona.

Dude, it's a million degrees. You have to stay cool. You're trying to stay not dead. Yes, exactly. So hot. Ah, so hot. So what's up? Okay, so my question today is,

how can I best be a friend to my best friend who has been battling cancer for three years and continues to just get bad news after bad news. What's bad news? Um, yeah, I don't, I'm trying not to go too deep into, um, telling her story for her, but, um, basically it's at the point now where, um, it's alternate treatments and it's terminal.

Yeah. Okay. Um, well, and that's the thing that's hard about being a friend too is it's, you know, I'm getting the information from her as she's willing to share or, and I know she's not wanting to give up hope also. And so, but it's, I know that it's, we're at a hard place for sure. Okay, cool. So, yeah. So how can I help? I'm so sorry. I mean,

I'm so sorry. Yeah. I think it's just, you know, I've, we've been going through this. Um, I've been, you know, with her for the last few years through COVID and through everything, it's been such a weird time to battle something like this. And I think I'm just finding myself not sure how to be there for her or how to, I just want to be her friend. I just want to hang out and I just want to go for a run with her, but obviously that's not where we are. And so I just find myself feeling a little helpless with how I can just be there for her as a friend in this moment and kind of balance that with kind of, you know, the grief that I'm dealing with. Um, and I think too, over the last couple of months, I've started to realize that I'm grieving the friendship we had

because, you know, it's, we, we've trained for triathlons together. We've done all this stuff together. We've raised our kids together and it's just, um, yeah, I'm just finding myself in a really heavy place and I'm not sure. I'm trying to take care of myself and make sure, you know, I just went on a family vacation and trying to, I keep telling my husband I'm trying to hold the joy and the grief at the same time. And it's really difficult. But I'm just at this point trying to figure out how I can best be there for her as she's navigating this. One, she's lucky to have you. And thanks for articulating that that way you, you laid it out perfectly. That, that balance is so hard. How old are you?

We're both 35. Oh my gosh. Yeah. What's the cancer? ah that's um well it's um colorectal cancer

I was gonna say it's either colon cancer yeah yeah breast cancer yeah yeah oh my gosh it's spread

yeah what a mess um yeah okay we'll loop through a couple of things here alright

okay um I'll start with you and then we'll work out Yeah. Okay. We'll loop through a couple of things here. All right? Okay. I'll start with you and then we'll work out. Is that cool? Yes. First, this is going to be hard to hear. Joy is often on the other side of grief. And you can make yourself insane trying to force one and hold the other.

Okay. And so this is a season of grief for a hundred different reasons. And it's not selfish for you to grieve the loss of your friendship. And it's not selfish to grieve the loss of the plans you guys had to do a triathlon when you're 40 and to be those two wrinkly old 50 year old ladies running in the neighborhood. Like you had that picture in your head and grieving that is the right thing to do. Cause it's not going to happen. Cause it's not going to happen. Yeah. That's, I think that's the hard part is that, um, you know, what she's dealing with is so much heavier than what I'm doing.

Listen, listen, listen. It's so hard. Okay, listen. Do not ever, ever, ever compare grief. Okay. Your grief is yours. Okay? Okay.

That's a fool's errand, and everybody ends up worse off when we compare grief. Her looking at you going, oh, you think you've got it bad? I've got this. If she thinks that, that doesn't help her cancer. No, she's not that way. Of course at you going, oh, you think you've got it bad? I've got this. If she thinks that, that doesn't help her cancer. No, she's not that way. Of course she's not, right? But I heard it a lot during COVID, like, oh, well, my husband lost his job, but at least, not like Dennis, my friend's husband who's on a ventilator, and it's like, well, at least my husband didn't die. Everybody's life was hard, right? And so own where you are right now. The one recurring challenge I hear from people who get cancer is that they say the hardest part of getting cancer is often making sure everyone else in their life is okay.

Yeah, and I'm very aware of that. Okay. I'm trying not to be that person to her. Um, and I'm trying to, uh, the hardest part is just not, uh, obviously I want to know how she's doing and how, but trying to find some normalcy in our friendship. Okay. Listen, there's none. I know it's not just trying to, I'm trying to, it's like, I just want to give her a break from this heaviness. And I know I can't, but yeah, it's hard. So as a person who's a triathlete, as a person who's going on vacations and writing down in your planner that we will have joy, right? Which is probably who you are.

Yes. There's nothing more terrifying and nothing more, there's no more feeling mortal than watching someone who's very similar to you die. Yes. And you can't control it. No. And the control part is what makes you nuts. Yes. what makes you nuts. The letting go part and the being really, really sad and the grieving this,

that's where there will be light on the other end of it, but you gotta go through the black hole first. I wish there was another way. Yeah. And I just think it's hard because, I mean, I was at the, we were at the park with our kids the other day and it's like, it's... It's surreal, right? She's still here.

She's still here. She's still my friend. You wouldn't ever look at her and even know that she's sick. Yeah. It's very hard. It is. All right. So I want you to loosen the control. And this is going to sound bonkers.

I want you to lean into this discomfort, not away from it. Okay. Lean into it and don't not away from it. Okay. Lean into it and don't try to control it. Okay. What that looks like is keep a record, a journal of how you're feeling. If you haven't started something, keep it and it'll be a great gift for her kids one day. Okay. Okay. What you're going to miss about her, what you'll miss about you after she's gone, that you're scared and alone and terrified, and there's days you just want to go hug her and make this all

better and you can't, write all that down because here's what you're going to do for her kids. You're going to give them some words and language to the hurt they feel after mommy's gone. Okay? Okay. I also want you to,

this is going to sound bonkers But have you sat down and asked her What do you need Um No Ta-da So okay You

There's nothing worse Than dating a guy And men are the worst about this But dating a guy And He's like, I know what I'm getting her for Valentine's Day, a great makeout session. And you know what I mean?

Like, and he's got all these ideas for how he's going to truly honor her. And I always like my buddies, have you asked your wife what she wants? Because what she really might want, the greatest, most romantic gift you could give her is like you to go away. That could be awesome. Or to do the dishes, right?

So I tell you this. When somebody's hurting, we often rush to fix that person's hurt because we feel uncomfortable and we're actually trying to heal our own discomfort. Right. I want you to go ask your friend. I love you. We've done hard things together and we're entering into mile 28. And this is an uncharted run for both of us. What do you need right now?

If you need me to stay away, because every time you see me, you grieve what you're not going to have, I'll stay away. If you need me to show up and just bring tacos and ride the sucker down, I'm going to let my nutrition go and we're going to eat beer, drink beer and eat nachos until this thing rides out. Yeah. Ask her what she needs. Yeah. And I think there's been seasons of that. I just think,

um, yeah, I've just been in this the last few months of extra heaviness. yeah. I've just been in this the last few months of extra heaviness. Yeah. Don't try to fight the extra heaviness because it's going to come anyway. And quite honestly, it's going to take you with it. Can we do this? Kelly is a cancer survivor and I would love to, is it cool if I get her insight on this?

Yeah. Oh, yes. Kelly, would you be willing to say something? Of course. Okay. So you may tell me, John, you're an idiot. That was terrible wisdom there. You gave her, um, walk it through.

You get the cancer diagnosis and then there's the scary season. Yours obviously wasn't, wasn't terminal, but quite the same thing. Um, walk us through your experience. Yeah. Hey Beth. So one thing that John said about asking her, I actually raised my hands because it was such a huge moment. Yes. My boss here, one of the greatest gifts he gave me was he asked me, how do you want us to treat you?

Okay. And my answer was like you did yesterday and before all this because I didn't want to be babied and everyone to feel sorry for me. And so by him asking that, and I knew if I had said, well, I'm a little emotional, so I need you to be nicer to me, they would have done it. He would have done it. But the fact that he let me be an adult and didn't assume how I wanted to be treated, he allowed me to make that decision. And then the biggest, biggest thing is when you're the person that has cancer or any issue, other people's feelings are exhausting. Yes, absolutely. So they really are.

They are exhausting. And that was harder for me to deal with than anything was everybody else's need to tell me how I was going to be fine. And I'm so sorry. And I'll pray for you. I know everybody meant well. But by the time I went home, I was like crawling in bed just because I was so tired. Yes, I can feel that. Yeah.

Finding another way for that outlet, your husband, another friend. Yeah, I have been very, very careful with that. And I think, I mean, one thing that's been, you know, when we're with our kids, it's easy to just be moms and to be present with each other and to laugh at our kids and have those late moments. So I've tried, we've leaned into that, but yeah, I definitely, um, yeah, I think it's, um, you know, I've given the, Hey, let me know how I can help or what I can do, but not as direct of, hey, how can I be different? I mean, I'm asking you. Beth, you just said something.

I haven't asked her. You said something really important that I want to hang on to. Yeah. When y'all are just being moms and y'all are just playing with your kids and y'all are just hanging out, that's one of the greatest gifts you can give her. Yes. But when you go home, that feeling you feel, that's one of the greatest gifts you can give her. Yes. But when you go home, that feeling you feel, that's your grief, not hers.

Yes, definitely. Right? And it's not her job to make that grief go away. Yeah, you can't put your grief on her. No, definitely not. Right. I've been very careful about that. She's getting,

she's never going to forget she has cancer. And if you don't talk about it, or, you know, all of a sudden you just pretend like the old days trust me she's not going to forget she's getting it from her probably her husband her doctors and a million other people that mean well and everybody at her church she needs somebody to treat her like a friend

and I mean not everything's not going to be normal but someone that's going to laugh and you know make fun of her if that's what you I I mean, my friends and I are completely and totally sarcastic. So, you know, when I had my mastectomy, there was jokes, lots of jokes because that's what I needed. I didn't need somebody to pet me and go, oh, I'm so very sorry. I had plenty of that. I needed my friends to be my friends still because I needed a sense of normalcy. Okay. Yeah. So as much of that as you can do and hey, what can I do for you? They're never going

to, no one's ever going to say, well, actually I really need someone to go to the store. Just step in and say, I'm going to the store. What do you want me to get? Yeah. Or I'm on my way over. What do you want from Starbucks? Yeah. Because people hate to ask, especially if they're like me, they don't want to ask for help. Exactly. So just stepping in and doing it, getting over there and just being her friend.

Okay. Yeah. And there's going to be some weird moments. Thank you so much, Kelly. That was awesome. My oldest, greatest friends on the planet

is a paraplegic. He's in a wheelchair. And I've been stopped. We've been stopped in restaurant parking lots because we're hassling each other so much. Somebody came and got into me and his little brother's face and was like, how dare you talk to him that way? And we're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, he's our friend. He's our friend. And it may be that she comes up to the park with her friend and you're like, nice haircut.

And she's like, I know. And somebody is going to look at you mean, whatever. They don't get a vote. This is your friendship. Yeah. Right.

Or maybe she looks at you and goes, I need you to treat me like a princess. Great. Done. No. And I mean, I think I, it's,

it's really good to hear. Cause I mean, we've always throughout her treatments and through, and there's another friend involved who doesn't live in town with us but you know we send each other funny memes and all that stuff and I've kind of stopped doing that because I'm like I don't I know but I think maybe it's okay

we need to keep the fun going and maybe be willing to still laugh ask her yeah because there will my friend her name was Kelly. And when she died of cancer, she had brain cancer very, very, very young. And when her first couple years of diagnosis, everybody knew it was terminal from day one.

They just didn't know how long. And when she first got it, she talked to everybody. She would go talk to the kids in the cancer ward. She would tell hilarious jokes. kids in the cancer ward. She would tell hilarious jokes and we were relentless back. She's one of the most extraordinary women I've ever met.

But as it got further along and the timeline was getting shorter and shorter, it was very clear, it's not funny. And we're not going to make jokes. And what we want now is more closeness and more hand-holding and more hugs to be a little bit tighter.

And it just shifted. And everybody kept checking in with, what do you need? What do you need? What do you need? And so let her steer that ship. And even if you have to say, from this point forward,

I'm going to let you steer the ship. Like you tell me what you need. And I'm going to keep asking you. Once a week, I'm going to ask you, let me know how we can best love you. Um, and you find support and love and care for your grief. Maybe you and your other friend, y'all go get together. Y'all go out, y'all write each other letters, whatever that looks like. Um, serve her kids, whatever that looks like, but find outlets for that grief there too. And I'll reiterate what I said earlier.

She's really lucky to have you as her friend. Man, thank you for loving, hurting people, Beth. You're awesome. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper

body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist.

Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed

therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash DELONI. All right, we are back. Let's go to Ashley in the NYC. What's up, Ashley? Hey, Dr. John. Great to talk to you. You too. What's up? So I'm just going to jump right into it. Jump right into it. Swan dive into it. So I am extremely protective of my mother.

She is on the autism spectrum and her way of processing the world makes her very vulnerable. Okay. So she has survived four abusive husbands. Actually, I should say we've survived because it really impacted my brother and I too. Um, but, uh, her last, her fourth marriage, her last marriage ended pretty dramatically back in December, 2020. Um, we'd all kind of felt like we'd reached the finish line of this toxic relationship, you know, these toxic relationship choices. But now she has announced that she's in love again, um, after only a couple of dates. And of course this guy shows the same red flags as all the other husbands. Um, so I don't know, we've been through this so many

times and I don't know if any of us can go through this cycle for a fifth time. So I guess my question is, how do I protect my mom from choosing another toxic husband? She's so lucky to have you as her daughter. I'm going to be 100% honest. Is that cool? Yes. You can't. There is literally nothing You can't. There is literally

nothing you can do. And what I would suggest you do... How old are you? Mid-40s. Okay. I would suggest you look back over the last 20 years

at all of the ways you've tried to protect her and the talks and the conversations and the texts and the mean faces at the husbands and all those things and none of that has worked and there's something defeatist and sad and honest about saying i can't fix this short of some clinical diagnostic that gave you guardianship of your mother because she was incapable of taking care of herself and i don't think if she's able to get married on it i don't think you you would qualify for that right yeah not Yeah, not yet. So ultimately, here's a hard thing. I've had to do it.

Every family member, every person with a family I know who's interested in boundaries has had to do this. Is you have to, there comes a moment when that family member also becomes a person. It's because the person that you love and is your family, but they're also a person who is hurting you. Right. And at some point, you have to make sure that you're well, especially in a futile situation like this. And so what I would do is tell your mom very specifically, I'm choosing to not go through number five. You're an adult.

You're allowed to make decisions on your own. But every time you are hurt, it hurts me. And I am choosing to not be hurt a fifth time. And so if she chooses to move away from you and go towards this relationship, that's going to hurt. But there's nothing you can do about it because you've tried four other times. Right. Right. But I feel like I'm leaving her alone in another abusive situation. Like, I've always been her support system, like kind of the adult. And I feel like I'd be leaving her

completely in the wilderness all by herself if I distanced myself. What's the other option? I guess going through it again. Does that make sense? Does that help her? How have you helped her the other four times?

Be very honest. Very honest. Husband number two and three, I actually, I would say helped run them off in a way. Counseled her through it, helped her recognize the toxicity, talked about her. She hasn't recognized anything. How valuable she is. She hasn't heard that message.

And she'll recognize it for a while. She'll see it and then she'll break it off. My guess is she sees that you are more engaged with her. Right. Not that she's got some toxic thought patterns and relationship patterns that she needs to do something different with. And I don't know if that's because of her cognitive capacity. I don't know if that's because of childhood traumas or both. Who knows why? But the reality is she hasn't learned those messages. And so this is going to be really

ugly what I'm about to say the help that you have given her has been you've loved her and you have loved her unconditionally and you have continued to walk alongside her the lessons you've given her have not worked and that's what i'm saying you're continuing to pour water into a bucket with a hole in it. And so here's what boundaries look like. The same as you probably would do with your kids, which is you will always have a place to stay. He will not be welcome. You will always, I'll always take care of you. But from this point forward, you're going to come this way. Unless you decide, are you married?

No. Okay. Unless you decide, your brother decide, well, here we go again. We're just going to be in this. And if so, make peace with that. Don't fight that.

Yeah. Make peace with it. Yeah. I am my mother's ninja warrior and that's just what I do. I fight, I help run off bad guys Right

And then she attracts the next one And then I run that guy off too It feels nice in the moment There's a lot of resentment I think attacked Of course That I've never told her Because I don't want to hurt her feelings Is she unable to

Why are you Protect her so much Well Is she unable to, why are you, why are you protect her so much? Well, she sees the world differently. So she, the way that she processes the world, she takes everything very literally. She doesn't understand sarcasm, manipulation, deceit, you know, these kinds of things. And so she is very easy to be lied to because she'll believe anything that somebody tells her. Um, and I think for whatever reason, she attracts men who will lie to her. And when she's in love, logic goes out the window. She doesn't see anything. But I think that if it were anybody

else who could kind of wake up and realize the manipulation and the lies, I would back off probably more. But I feel like unless I am there to, I would say almost interpret for her what's happening in front of her and to lay the foundation. This is manipulation. What he said to you isn't true. You're worth more than that. You realize that, you know, whatever. If I'm not there to interpret the situation for her, I feel like she would actually be in a worse position than she's already found herself in. So I do see myself as a protector, which I would probably just keep doing if it didn't impact me in the process. So I don't know how to balance that.

So you want both sides of the fence. I do. Well, I just don't want to resent her for it. I want to still help her, but... You've got to choose to not be resentful, which means you've got to take care of yourself. Right. And so if you're choosing to look at this as though you're caring for an adult with special needs

and that she is a danger to herself or she has no ability to protect herself from danger, that's a totally different pathway. I'm going to seek to get control of her finances and I'm going to seek to get control. I'm going to pay her rent using her money. I'm going to pay her rent. Right. Which I actually do. I am in control of her finances since the fourth marriage. Okay, great. So she handed, willingly handed that over to me. So that's a good first step. The, I know that this community doesn't like this phrasing. It's just easier in the short term.

The highly functioning autistic folks I've worked with have been the best people to get very, very clear boundaries. If you do this, I will no longer be accessible to you. You are choosing him or you are choosing me and that is a choice that you get to make and so i don't know what that boundary looks like all i can do is look at the last four rounds and realize that that hasn't worked and so i the other side of it is if you choose to love your mom by walking alongside her and protecting her um I would come up with some even firmer boundaries like I mean I don't I don't really know how to do that um I do I don't know how to do it in this situation without sitting down with both you and your brother and your mom.

What I mean by that is continue to, you've got money, you've got, hopefully you got retirement accounts. Hopefully you've got bank accounts. Hopefully you've got insurance stuff. Hopefully you're paying the bills. And so some new person doesn't have access. My fear is that some new person is going to come give some very compelling reasons and she's going to revoke that access for you. And that, then you'll end up in a mess. Or you ask for guardianship and you ask her to sign over guardianship for you. And that may be a path forward when it comes to really, really strong boundaries. Or you put her in some sort of assisted living facility or something. Ultimately, you've got to decide

how you're going to do this. And when you make that decision, don't resent, don't get mad at the other side of it because it's both sides are a choice. Either you're going to step out and say, these are my boundaries and there's a potential mom's going to go off the rails and become victim to somebody who's a predator or you're going to be all in protecting mom and you just know you're going to lose a lot of weekends out there

because that's a choice that you made. But once you make that choice, be at peace with it. Be at peace with it. Be at peace with it. And I know that's hard. You're going to have to practice being. And that's where you have to sleep, take care of your body, all those things. You have to eat right. You're going to have to have your friends. You're going to have to do all that stuff too that you know. But make your choice and exhale through it.

And I'm sorry that you're in this. I know this sounds so hard. It just sounds hard, hard, hard. Like I said at the beginning, your mom's super lucky to have you. Make your choice and make peace with it. I'm sorry. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you. So you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back.

And as promised, we've got a special fourth call today. Just a few shows ago, talked to somebody who lives somewhat close to me here in Nashville, whose husband was struggling with suicidal ideation. And he'd driven himself to a bridge as a veteran, done a lot of tours, a really extraordinary man. And I asked her while we were talking, can I talk to him right now?

Is he at home? And she said he wasn't home. And I said, I'd love to talk to him. And he's a brave man and he called. And so we've got Justin here from Tennessee, from Middle Tennessee here. Hey, Justin, what's up, man? How you doing, John?

I'm good, my brother. How are you? Doing all right. Doing all right. Thanks. Man, I get to deal with brave people all day long, and this tops the list, my man. So thank you so much for having the courage to call.

Well, thank you for taking my call yeah man so uh you talked to your wife tell me how that conversation went um well it's been an ongoing conversation since um since she talked to you sort of things have been coming up um but overall yeah good good conversation. We've been learning a lot over the last few days. So tell me what's been going on the last three months, four months, five months, and the years before that. Gosh. So I feel kind of like cyst to cyst, except that I'm not getting to the top of the hill.

I feel like I'm climbing uphill. It's muddy. I'm up to my nose, and I'm not ever getting anywhere. It feels like all of the alarm bells in my head are always going off at the little thing. Yeah. Right? I tried getting, and what's more, it feels like I'm doing all of that alone. It feels like those who have promised

to help me through this stuff, I don't mean my wife or my family, but counselors and medical folks. And the freaking VA? The the the va okay you named me i was nonsense i'll name them i'll name them because it's an atrocity sometimes the way they treat you guys it's unbelievable man and i'm a freaking taxpayer i pay their bills it's unbelievable man it's unbelievable yeah but it's just's, it's felt like abandonment. Um, you know, one, one time after another, I mean, even just last week, two weeks ago,

um, two days before an appointment, I, after being on the suicide hotline and all that stuff, they canceled two days beforehand. We're going to get me another appointment for late August, you know? And so just kind of been dragged along. And so everything just kind of, it feels like everything is reinforcing the idea that in this, I'm totally alone, that I'm never going to get anywhere. Nothing's going to change. Utterly just hopeless.

There's nothing there. So just why struggle through it anymore and just kind of end it, you know? Absolutely, absolutely. Well, thanks for, man, you articulated that well. What are you pushing uphill? Great mythological reference, by the way. My mom's a mythologist.

That was awesome. What are you pushing uphill, man? I think it may just be my own weight. I don't know. You're pushing something. What is it own weight. I don't know. You're pushing something. What is it? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, if I could see something, if I could name something, I think even just that alone might help.

But, I mean, it feels like, I mean, we've gone through some frustrating boundary issues with, you know, I mean, everybody's calling in for, about that kind of thing. Um, you know, uh, my sister's going through a nasty divorce. We've got all this, all this stuff. It feels like, you know, things just keep piling up, but, but none of it's singular enough that I'm able to, to identify it. Yeah. So, um, how many combat tours did you do? Two. Two?

You see some stuff? I did. Any of that stay on a loop with you or no? Not really. I mean, I almost wish it was because that's easy

to identify and go after. Yeah. All right. So, I'm going to was because that's easy to identify and go after. Yeah. All right. So I'm going to oversimplify this, okay? But I hope this works. I hope this rings true to you, okay? And I'll tell you, the first time I ever had this conversation was with an Israeli combat veteran who was one of my students who had been way into the trenches with Hezbollah, the whole thing,

and was coming unhinged when a teacher would call on him in the classroom. And he didn't understand it. And so let me paint a broad picture, okay? So if you haven't heard me, I'll just start from scratch here your body is basically a giant prediction machine and a giant alarm system that's it okay and that's oversimplified but that's basically what it is and when things happen

to us in our childhood things happen to us in combat things happen to us in our childhood. Things happen to us in combat. Things happen to us in a car wreck. Things happen to us in divorce, whatever. It puts a GPS pin in that thing. And it has one job, and that's to get us to tomorrow and then get us to the next day and get us to the next day. That's why we'll smoke today. We know it's going to kill us later, but it gets us to tomorrow because I'm stressed now, right? Right. And sometimes, often, if you will, if you look around at the veteran community especially, that alarm system has so many pins and so many things and it only has one volume and it loses the ability to be sensitive. And so the best way I could describe that is

you've been in a house and the smoke alarm's going off in the kitchen because somebody's burning something and it's so loud and obnoxious and there's little kids in there and everybody's screaming. It's like so loud. That's the same alarm that goes off when the house is on fire and someone's dumped gasoline in it. And that fire will go off. I mean, that alarm will go off sometimes if somebody's running the shower too hot and it's steam out there now. Right? So the alarm just becomes so sensitive that it rings off the hook for any number of things.

And you nailed it perfectly. It just feels like there's a lot all the time. If you think about that a lot feeling, it's very similar to being in a house or being in a building and they're working on the fire alarms and they're just going off and you can't write, you can't text, you can't do anything. You can't have a conversation, can't do anything. You especially can't eat well and go to the gym and have any sort of meaningful sex life. I mean, you can't do these things that bring you, you can't connect with your kids because it's going

right. Here's what I'm telling you that. You're not broken. And you are not malfunctioning. Your alarm system is. And I need you to step away from identifying with a component. Got what I'm saying? Okay. You're not broken.

We do need to work on that alarm system. Yeah. Okay. And the entry point into you're not broken is curiosity, not frustration. Here's what I mean by that. The next time you think, what am I doing here? I know how this ends.

Bye, honey. That's the moment where you pause. And all I'm asking for, brother, is a pause. And you ask yourself the question what is my body trying to protect me from right now and if you can ask that question that's the pathway to peace

and that's the pathway to getting this alarm system back see what I'm saying yes what's this trying to protect me from oh I'm saying? Yes. What's this trying to protect me from? Oh, I'm having a hard conversation here. We're planning for the future, and I don't see a future for myself.

There's so much noise in the system. What is this protecting me from? Is it the showers running, or is the house actually on fire? Right? It's only got one alarm, right? And it rings the same for all of these things. And you said a couple of things. Most of the people I've sat with who are considering dying by suicide

don't want to be dead. They want that pain to stop. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And it's very quickly that you go from I'm all by myself to I'm being abandoned

to the danger zone, which is other people would be better if I just wasn't here. Absolutely. That's a, listen, it's not true. That's false. Right. No, you just said right passively, so I'd shut up. I'm going to say it again.

It's not true. Okay. So we know the end point. I said right passively, so I'd shut up. I'm going to say it again. It's not true. Okay? So we know the end point. Everybody's life will be worse with you going. What we have to work on is the gap. Okay? Okay. The VA is failing you.

That's a them problem, not a you problem. Okay? Yeah. They're the one with the malfunction, not my brother Justin. Okay? Okay. I do think what you've told me right now, have you ever considered taking a break, doing an inpatient for 30 days?

No, I haven't. Why not? Financial purposes. Yeah. Don't care about that. Okay. No, I just never have considered that. Do you have a Jeep that's all jacked up?

No. You don't? What do you have? No. It's an 04 Tacoma. Dude, look at me making a bad judgment. Good for you, Justin. I've talked to some vets, and they're like, I can't afford it, man.

And then they've got like an F350 that's all jacked up and whatever. No, no, no, no. Good for you. Pay in cash. Do what? And then they've got like an F-350 that's all jacked up and whatever. No, no, no, no. Good for you. Paid in cash. Do what? Paid in cash. Atta boy.

Oh. So when you say the words, it's not going to change, what do you mean? Well, I guess the Sisyphus analogy, right? I mean, I can make progress and then I'm just going to slide back. Have you ever thought about stop pushing? I don't think I would know what that looks like. That's exactly right. Would you be willing to look at this as not a series of failures, but as a...

Remember the first time they, they put that AR in front of you and they told you how to take it apart and put it back together. It was just a series of skills that you had to learn.

If the idea of rest and the idea of recalibration and the idea of re, um, learning some new tools to differentiate

the alarms and turn them down for God's sake, if you could look at that as a series of tools or in a series of skills, does that sit well with you? Cause that's a solvable problem. Oh no, absolutely. Absolutely. It does. I think that's what I'm looking for. Okay. Okay. I still know what that looks like that's fair that's absolutely fair

100% fair so here's what I need from you your wife said you started going to counseling you found somebody else local yes good how's that going awesome

okay will you make a blood oath to me that you won't take your life until that's over? Yes. Will you make an in concrete oath to your wife that you won't take your life? Yes. And we've done that. We did the whole contract and everything. Okay.

Here's the gap, though. It's good to make that contract, but you've got to have a number to call when it comes because it will. You can't willpower that. Right. Right? Do you have a number to call? I do. You've made that promise? I have.

Okay. Do you have a group of a couple of local guys you can get together with? I do. I will set up with you if you'll come have coffee with me and hang out here. You're just down the street from me. We'll set that up if you're interested. Yeah. Would you come hang out with me and just honor me with hanging out? I'm not going to fix you. I'm not your therapist, but we can just have coffee and hang out. That would be great. I'll say I would buy the coffee, but they give it out free here.

So that would just be me trying to self-aggrandize. Even better. No, that's great. You'd do that? All right, hang on the line and Jenna's going to get your contact info and then we'll loop up there. I just want to hang out with you and meet you. You live in my neighborhood.

Okay? Sure. Is that cool? I'll buy lunch and we'll hang out. Is that fine? Right on. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'll also do everything that I can and I can't promise you anything, but when we meet in person, I'll hopefully I'll have some stuff for you and see if I can short circuit some of the processes here in this local community and get you some resources. Okay.

Wow. I don't know if that's possible, but I'll make the calls at least. I'll at least make people uncomfortable. How about that? Cool. Okay. Thank you. But you are promising me that you're going to be here when I call. Yes. Awesome.

I will. Hey, I am proud of you. Thank you I am more proud of you For this Than for getting on an airplane earlier That you had to do This is you're deciding to do And I'm proud of you Thank you

Okay Thank you You're not broken no one will be better off if you're not here and we're going to walk alongside you the best we can you just got to promise keep walking we're in it

I'll keep walking hell yeah it's awesome it's been one of my great honors to talk to you today thank you and if you see me in the neighborhood It's been one of my great honors to talk to you today. Okay? Thank you. Thanks, John. And if you see me in the neighborhood, say hi. Is that cool?

I will. We probably share a Walmart or something. Probably. There's only one, right? Yeah, exactly. All right, brother. Hey, it's a blessing to you. I love you.

And thank you so, so, so much for calling, man. As we wrap up today's show, let's see here. The band is Need to Breathe and the song is called, oh man, look at that, Brother. Goes like this. Ramblers in the wilderness, we can't find what we need. We get a little restless from the searching, get a little worn down in between.

Like a bull chasing the matadors, the man left to his own schemes. Everybody needs somebody beside him, shining like a lighthouse chasing the matadors the man left to his own schemes everybody needs somebody beside him shining like a lighthouse from the sea brother let me be your shelter never leave you all alone I can be the one you call when you're low brother let me be your fortress

when the night winds are driving on be the one to light the way bring you home brother Justin you've done your fair share of being other people's fortress. Now it's time to let other people join you. And if you're listening to this show

and you've got people in your community that are hurting, be the call. We'll see you later. Coming up on the next episode. My 21-year-old son, about a month ago, suffered a mental breakdown.

I found out that this mental health system, it's really difficult to navigate to help my son. It's a mess. If I break my ankle, doctor, I go to the ER and I get it fixed. I get a cast off. If I break something in my brain, no one seems to know how to help you or help my son. Your son's not broken. He's not dysfunctional. and he's not lost. When did the story that you didn't look right begin?

Like, was your family, like, always on a diet and always talking about weight and stuff like that? And that is true for me, but it wasn't directed at me. It was mostly, like, my dad. Children absorb their environment in a mainline fashion.