The Dr. John Delony Show - How Can I Stand Up for Myself in My Marriage?

Episode Date: March 3, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A wife wanting to start asserting herself in her marriage - A 65-year-old who’s never known love - A woman wondering if she should write a letter to her mother’s therapist Lyrics of the Day: "You & I (We Can Conquer The World)" - Stevie Wonder Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Never in my whole life ever been loved by anyone. I don't want to know if it's too late to find that. What makes you think you've never been loved? I know. You know when you're loved, I'm assuming, because I have not ever felt that except for my children. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show. I'm so grateful that you are hanging out with us, giving us your most precious resource, your time. You got so much other stuff you got

to be doing. So many other voices competing for your attention. Those clothes in your closet are saying, why don't you clean me up? And those clothes and laundry are saying, why don't you wash me? Are you lazy? And the dishes are like, hey, why don't you? And you're spending your time with us. And the tires are like, why won't you rotate me? Do you not want to be alive? And all of our stuff, everything is just yelling at you. And you chose to sit down with us. And I'm super, super grateful. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you on. I may not be able to give you much wisdom, but I'd love to have you hang out for a little while. Go to johndeloney.com

slash ask, A-S-K, or give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. If you have some good news to report, like, hey, me and my wife have started a year ago. We started listening to the show together. We started talking. We changed the way we communicate, and here's some success stories. That would be fantastic if you would call in and share them or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. That would be fantastic. Hey, can I say something real quick?

Yes. I'm going to. We have been getting a ton of success stories. No kidding? Yes. As of yesterday, I had well over 20. Wow. Okay, that's cool. And so we're going to be talking about those soon,

but I just wanted people to say thank you to people. Way to go, man. There's some great stuff in there. There's good stuff? Yeah, really is. That's awesome. And speaking of saying nice things, don't forget your five-star reviews and please hit

the subscribe button. Please, please, please, please. All right. Let's go to Maggie in Columbia, South Carolina. What's up, Maggie? Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for having me. Of course.

Thank you. I'll be in Columbia, South Carolina in a few weeks. Oh, awesome. Yeah. It's a great city. My husband and I are avid listeners of your show and we appreciate all you do. Well, I'm really grateful for you. Thank you so much. What's up? How can I help? So my question is, how do I begin asserting myself in my marriage

when I've been dismissive of myself and my needs for most of my life? And I can provide background. Yeah, of course. Tell me more. Okay. So my parents divorced when I was young. My dad chose to leave his role in my life. I had turned to disordered eating and spent high school hiding and eating disorder. Moving away to college, my disordered eating became crippling and I turned to sex to satisfy my loneliness, which led to a lot of unwanted sexual trauma. I didn't have any hope and had considered taking my life until I met my husband now, but he was my boyfriend at the time. And so fast forward 10 years with extensive therapy, my husband and I now have two young kids and I've had postpartum depression with both. So I'm at a point right now in my

marriage where I no longer want to take the back seat. I want to be an equal and have my needs heard and my boundaries acknowledged. It's just been hard for me because with my whole background, I'm so used to just putting everyone else before myself, and I've spent a lot of time being lonely. Yeah. You articulated that really, really well. How often have you said those things out loud in a row like that? Not too often. Okay. So this is not a story that you've told over and over again. This is a story

that you are beginning to feel strong enough to begin to put out into the universe. Is that fair? That's fair. Okay. When you were a little kid, where did you learn that your job was to take care of everybody else? What gave you that lack of control in your world that that was the way you started trying to grab onto it? Well, my dad left and had just decided that he didn't want to participate anymore. What did that do to your mom? Crushed her. Yeah. Yeah. We, my sister and I absorbed that. Tell me about that. Um, so my mom got remarried pretty quick after my parents split, but she remarried someone similar to my dad. And she was always the person taking care of my dad or my stepdad. So we had just kind of learned like, okay, we take care of other people.

And I grew up in a really passive-aggressive home. So it was kind of like you have these, but you don't talk about them. But then you let them out in kind of a bar way. Yeah, passive-aggressive homes are like mind-reader homes. And they make people crazy yeah which is why an eating disorder was so great because I can control everything well you can yeah yes yes and so you say you hit it um yeah uh tell me about that yeah so I kind of had heard um so I'll just give clarity so I had um

or probably I'm in recovery now but had started with um anorexia which was not easy to hide because you start losing a lot of weight. And then moved into being bulimic for a long time, which was easier to hide because you tend to remain the same weight. So that was kind of easier to hide. I was actually very high achieving in academics and did really well. So I would kind of come and go from my house as I needed. And that's not uncommon because that was another way you got people off your back. Absolutely.

I'm going to check all of the boxes that you need to leave me alone. Yes. Yep. I want to paint a picture for you how this dance works, okay? There is a... We always talk about the divorce,

like dad walks out on us, but from a trauma perspective, especially for young kids, we often forget the two or three or four years before that, that mom and dad's relationship would have been a mess. And that chaos would have ricocheted through all the little kids in the house, through all the relational interactions in the house. So at a really young age, you start feeling how electric everything is and how you don't want to make mom mad because she was just crying. Because there's not just a divorce, it's rarely just instantaneous, right? And so then that happens and you're a little girl wondering what was so bad about you that dad left and then mom rushes to fill that gap with some knucklehead some other guy and you're still you're still

wondering where's mom what about us are we not good enough right you see i'm saying so the whole dance happens but then a weird thing happens you find safety when you're alone and your body craves it. And so you start grabbing ways to control and you end up realizing you found some currency with your body. I can actually connect with people and keep them at arm's length at the same time by sleeping with people that I'm not super invested with. Do you see how your body plays both sides of that equation until it falls in on itself? Yes. It actually works for a while, right? Just like alcohol, just like cocaine, Do you see how your body plays both sides of that equation until it falls in on itself? Yes. It actually works for a while, right?

Just like alcohol, just like cocaine, like it all works for a while. It works for a while. Yes. Tell me what it was about this guy you were dating amidst all of this that suddenly you said he's different. Yeah, so he, like I said, he's my husband now. We actually listen to your show together. He, it was interesting, right? He just wasn't selfish.

He was just more interested about me as a person and trying to meet my needs than just kind of taking whatever he could get. And that was probably the first time anyone's really done that for me. And nothing about your past. and i'm just not talking sexually but i'm talking about your past just the challenges you've had that didn't scare him off at the time i didn't share everything with him i got to kind of pretend to be someone new for a while um eventually that had come out and we were able to work through that. Okay.

And he didn't leave. That was kind of another thing. It was like, oh, I'm just sharing more and more about myself that I think is just going to cause you to leave like other people have.

Okay. And you're still here. So fast forward to right now, what is it about this season or what needs are not being met? Are you not vocalizing or are you not feeling like you're an equal part of your home? So we have, I know I mentioned, we have two young kids. And having postpartum depression with both, the first time I went through it, I felt very lonely and it kind of took me back to this place of like,

um, I guess it kind of just took me back. Um, you know, I felt like I was, I know my husband's not here to defend himself, but you know, I've, Hey, listen, I've, I've had two kids and I did not do it well either time. So, okay. Okay. Yeah. There was a lot of shame that came with postpartum depression with my son. Um, he's my oldest now and it was just, you know, um, you know, why don't you want him and why are you so sad? And this is what you've always wanted. Um, and so it just became one of those things where I started hiding again. Right. Hmm. I'm so sorry. You know, and then we have my son and he grows up and well, he's not grown. He's still,

but we, um, you kind of go back and forth with trying to raise him. And then I got pregnant with my daughter. And so now all of these fears of abandonment are coming back. And like, I'm not enough. Each time there's been a huge life event, like getting married, having my son, and then having my daughter. It feels like everything from my past bubbles back up. Right. And I want you to, maybe the first time in your life, stop the civil war between you and your body. It's trying to take care of you the best it can. And it knows this story where kid number two comes and dad leaves.

So it knows that story. And so it's just trying to get your attention to remind you as loud as possible, hey, this is what's coming, even though it's not. When mom probably heard or stepdad heard a full narrative about what you were experiencing in middle school, they probably told you that it was dumb or stop talking or you should just leave or we're tired. Stop. Hush, hush, hush. Go, go, go, go. We're in the middle of something. And so you learned at a young age that stories about you turn people away from you. And so over time, your body really went to war with you when you started telling somebody that you had a vested interest in about you, the truth about you, some of the experiences that you've had. And so all along the way, your body's trying to be a friend in this deal and trying to help you out. It's just now that those things that

used to keep you alive and keep you safe are now making you crazy. And there's nothing like having a kid, like feeling like having your, and again, nobody needs another six foot two white male telling women how their bodies work, right? But like there's nothing to make you feel less in control than having a baby, right? Your body's not yours anymore. It's like an RV for a kid. And it kind of does its own things and it grows and it's weird and it stretches and it's not yours. Then when your kid's born, you're a jungle gym and a food dispenser.

And then a couple of months in, husband comes pawing back at you like, hey, hey. And all of a sudden, whoosh, your body remembers when we didn't have control. And remember when we kept everyone at arm's length so that we could protect ourselves. And we did protect ourselves, but we went crazy because we were isolated and alone. And you see that weird figure eight dance it just happens over and over and over again yes so you are not going to like my answer on where to go from here i'm sure i'm gonna love it let me have it you won't um you are going this is not a to be present, to start speaking your needs out loud, to say things that you want to, to, to be heard in your home from your kids, from yourself,

from your husband, from your community. There's not a checklist that you can do by yourself. What you're going to have to do is practice relational safety, which means you're going to have to regularly get with people who are not your husband and practice saying things out loud and then feeling your body when it feels completely and totally exposed and heading into that storm, not away from it like you've done for your entire life. Okay. You cannot. And hear me say this this and i'm saying it because I love you you cannot do this part by yourself Here's why the pressure your body will feel Your your autonomic nervous system won't allow it the pressure Your body will exert on you to not fully express how you feel to your husband because he might leave that story So woven into the fabric of your body will exert on you to not fully express how you feel to your husband because he might leave that story is so woven into the fabric of your body that you're going to always hedge your bets and then you're going to hate yourself for hedging your bets and then your body's got a whole system of behaviors to take care of you when you hate yourself like disordered eating like

finding yourself by by Sleeping around like whatever behaviors and then you're just going to invent new ones. You know what I mean? like working 90 hours a week or um Like I was just eating See, there you go And most of us we don't realize it. We just go through our lives Going from our lives going from anxiety to OCD to addiction in this loop. And we just pass, we just finally

kick addictions and kick addictions until we find one that the world rewards us for. And usually that's codependency on a relationship or working a lot. And eventually the work will go to alcohol almost, or you're going to find somebody at work that's going to make you feel alive again because you're so distant and you're going to end up doing something that you can't take back relationally with your husband is that fair yeah so i will tell you one thing you can do by yourself well so let me back up um everything you've been told about your body up until now that, um, it's for somebody else's enjoyment.

You're not in control. All those things has led you to this story that your body can't be trusted. And think about this for a second. This is hard. We're going to say out loud. Okay. Is that cool? Yes.

Yep. You, your body told you you can't even be happy with your kids. Yeah. Your body told you you can't even tell when you look good and when you don't. Your body told you we have one value, and that is getting that guy off or finding connection with filling the way so your body has been trying to take care of you for so long and you've got to make peace with the fact that your body's not telling you the truth anymore and that's a scary realization and also a super freeing realization i'm nodding okay okay're going to get some friends, whether that's a group, whether that's a woman's group, whether that's a counselor, and maybe time for a new therapist,

I would recommend a group because you are probably just by talking to you, you are brilliant enough to work your way. And I've just spent my whole career working with especially young women with eating disorders, disorder eating, and they are masters at controlling a conversation. Right? Yep. Some of the best I've ever encountered ever. And I was a dean of students at a law school for five years. They can't hold a candle. So I recommend getting in with a group or getting three or four women that are your friends and tell them that some idiot on a podcast or on YouTube told you that

you've got to have three or four people in your life that know everything, all the things. Okay. And I know that sounds terrifying and insane. This will only be healed relationally. Once your body begins to learn that it's okay to say things out loud then you can enter into that space with your husband that says I need help around here or I know you love me and when you ask me

Why I can't be happy with our kids My body leaves. I'm out. And right now saying those words out loud are terrifying, right? Yeah. Here's one thing you can do by yourself, okay? Remember those old t-shirts? I don't know how old you are, but there used to be t-shirts called Mind the Gap. And I always thought it was making fun of the store. Is that what it was for, Kelly? What was it for, Kelly? No, they're for – it's British when you get on the underground.

Oh. Mind the Gap. Because when you get on the underground, they tell you that in Mind the Gap. So don't step in the – In between the platform and the car. I always thought Mind the Gap was making fun of the store that was telling you what to wear and whatnot. I guess I missed that. So I'm going to tell you to you to mind the gap and here's what I mean by that I want you to begin to look for and probably get a journal and write it down Or use the notes app on your phone. I want you to start looking for places in moments in your day

When your body starts to run off on you And just get some space between it run off on you and just get some space between it taking off on you and what just happened. So your husband walks in the door and all of a sudden you start to feel the need to leave the room. Just pause right there before you leave and just ask yourself, what are you trying to protect me from? And it's really a curiosity. We're not mad, I'm not angry. I'm just asking my body, what did you find here that was scary?

Or when your kid comes in and you start to push them away, ask yourself, what is it about my baby that I'm trying to push away right now? Am I overstimulated? Is his breath really weird? Has he not changed his diaper? And actually,

I need help from dad and I haven't said it out loud and he's too clueless to even pay attention. What is it that is causing my hand to rise up and push my baby away? And again, it's a curious thing. It's not that you're a bad mom because you're clearly not. It's just your body's got some stuff wired into it. And we're just going to get to the bottom of what it's trying to protect you from. My guess is it's going to try to protect you from people that you love getting too close because if they find out about you, they're going to leave again. Okay.

So mind the gap, begin to practice that space. I still have to do that all the time too. That's a practice I think most of us will go do for the rest of our lives. But before the day's over, I want you to find a group. Find some friends, some women that you will make a regular connection with on a calendar you won't miss and you are going to practice saying things out loud and feeling completely and totally exposed without the pressure of your body thinking your husband's going to leave when he finds out or that your kids are going to fill in the blank, whatever they're going to take off on you. Hang on the line. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to send you Own Your Past, Change Your Future, the book. I want you to read through it. In fact, I'm going to send you two copies. I want you to read one and your husband to read one. Also, I'm going to send you, um, own your past, change your future. The book, I want you to read through it. In fact, I'm gonna send you two copies. I want you to read one and your husband to read one.

Also, I'm going to send you both of the questions for humans, couples cards. Here's what I want you to do with those. Just practice having a conversation with your husband. And these are no pressure. There's no, they're just slow. Like, uh, it's not bass fishing where you're pulling a lure back all the time. This is catfishing. You're just throwing it out there and letting it sit. These are low-impact questions. You'll go to dinner, do five cards, ten cards, and you're just getting to, quote, unquote, know each other a little bit better.

But the whole time what you're really doing is practicing telling your husband things about you, catching your body when it starts to take off, and reminding yourself that you're safe, you're safe, you're safe. I'm so grateful for you, Maggie. I'm so grateful for you. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes, and if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves.

I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life.

Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey

and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.

All right. Let's go to Ann in Detone in Dallas, Texas. Let's go to Ann in Detone in Dallas, Texas. What's up, Ann? Hey, Dr. John. How are you? I'm good, beautiful. How are you? I'm okay. I've been better. Otherwise, I wouldn't

be calling you. One day, Ann, somebody's going to call the show and just be like, I'm doing awesome. One day. One day, Ann, somebody's going to call the show and just be like, I'm doing awesome. One day. One day. One day. All right. So what's happening?

How can I help you? So I'm in the later half of my life, like on the down slope. How old are you? 65. Okay. So I have never in my whole life ever been loved by anyone except my children. And I don't want to know if it's too late to find that. What makes you think you've never been loved?

Well, it's not a thought. I know. You know when you're loved, I'm assuming, because I have not ever felt that except from my children. No. Sometimes your body doesn't tell you the truth because it's too busy trying to protect itself. Sometimes our bodies do a great way of pushing away people

who are trying desperately to love us because maybe we loved our parents and that got us abused or we loved our uncle and that got us abused or we loved our parents and one of them just took off on us um and so our bodies put a gps pin in relationships as something scary that gets you hurt and sometimes people try to love us with all their might and all they know how to do, and our bodies push them away. Do your kids have the same dad? Yes. He never loved you?

Never. Tell me about it. No. So we met when we were 19. We at 20 we had five children we lost one very early on it was our second son and um and let me preface this by letting you know he only married me because i was pregnant okay and um I believed when I said my vows that I was there until death, which pretty much did pretty much kill me,

like emotionally, to the point where I had to run. And I've been running ever since. Running because you're scared he's going to get you and hurt you or running because if you stop, your body's going to catch up with you? Running away from myself, I think. I can't figure it out. Can I tell you what I just wrote down here? A note that I'm getting from your voice? Sure. I just wrote this down. Your question is, is it too late for someone to love you?

Correct. My question to you is, do you love you? What's so bad about Ann? Everything. I'm calling bull crap on that. It's not. That's not true. Tell me.

What's so bad about Anne? When I had to run from my husband, I had nowhere to go with my children. And so, when I ran, I never got my children back. And they were my whole life. I was a mom and a wife for my whole adult life until that point.

And he took everything from me. And I have been running ever since. Are you estranged from your kids? Pretty much. I mean, we talk once in a while. I see them maybe once a year, all but once. Once has nothing to do with me. Why not?

He won't tell me what. Okay. I was just with him over a month ago, and we spent about an hour together, and then he had to go, and he just, he won't talk to me. He won't. It's just not. We were so close. We were so close. And it's all gone.

You were so close and there's been a definite break. I don't believe it's all gone. Okay. I don't believe that with all of my heart. It's 25 years. Yep. And I've tried everything. I think there's one thing you haven't tried.

What's that? Okay. And before I say it, I want you to be open to this one terrifying notion. Okay? Okay. Can you be okay with this? And I'm nervous to even say it out loud

because you are somebody that takes negative feedback as an identity. Okay. I want to be able to tell you something and not have you

instantly go to, yep, there's more proof that I suck at everything. Okay. Okay? Uh-huh. Can we just, two friends from Texas just hanging out? Can I just tell you? Sure. Okay. I want you to hold loosely in your right or left hand. I don't care which one. The idea that maybe the way you've been running and trying to reconnect with your kids isn't working.

Can you hold that? Absolutely. Okay. So a few weeks ago, I tried to fix my mower. After a while, it was clear what I'm doing is not working. That doesn't mean I'm a bad dad. It doesn't mean I'm an idiot. I'm stupid, whatever. It just meant I'm not doing this right. I got to go to the internet and go to the hive mind and figure it out. Okay. So similarly, you've tried a bunch of things. I want you to think about this, that son you just mentioned. What if every time you came around, his body started screaming at him to go. Because if he loves you one more time, mom's going to take off again. We're not going to be able to handle it this time.

Right. Yes, I agree with that. Okay. his scummy dad never sat down when he was a teenager, becoming a young man and taught him how to have a challenging conversation, how to let your needs be met, how to say things out loud, like I feel sad or I miss you. And nobody taught him how to do that. And so now his body's got one tool, one strategy, and that's avoidance. That's it. And that avoidance is going to kill him, but it keeps him alive. It's like smoking, right? It gets you through the next 10 minutes and over time it kills you. It's very similar. So what I want to enter into this space with your kids very, very submissively. And what I mean by that is there's no explaining,

no, hey, you guys don't understand. It's very much taking a knee and saying, I'm your mom and I miss you more than life itself. And I'd love to have you back in my life when you'll have me. Okay. Can I tell you something? I've done that. You can tell me everything.

Okay. Tell me back. Tell me back. Okay. So I did that four years ago. Okay. I went to every one of them,

and I told them exactly that. I even moved across the country to be near them. Mm-hmm. And nothing. Nothing. Nothing happened. It actually got worse and worse. The more I tried, the more I felt like I was pushed away. Do you remember what I said earlier?

What? I don't remember i don't know what at some point your kids bodies are probably trying to protect them here here's where here's let's get to all all the way down to the bottom here carrying these regrets around with you is somehow feeling you feel protected by it. What is carrying all this regret doing for you? It's killing me. Exactly. Why don't you set it down? I don't know how. I don't know how. The guilt, the fact that,

that a mistress walked into their lives and took over my life and left me with nothing. And the way I watch my children suffer because of that, it's like I can't forgive myself. Do you want to? Yes, I do. I want them to forgive me. That's not the, that's, if you put the burden of your wellness on them, they're going to feel that a hundred miles away. And they have already decided, I can't carry mom's stuff anymore for her. You've got to decide for Ann and no one else.

You may have 30 years left. Okay? Oh, I don't think I have that long. You can think all you want. My grandmother didn't either. Well. Okay? She kept.

Even if I have 15 years, that's fine. I just. I'm going with 30. Here's the deal. You have fine. I just. I'm going with 30. Here's the deal. You have to decide for Ann. I want to not carry this stuff around anymore. Yes, I did some things in my life that I regret. And the only thing on planet Earth I can do is control what happens next.

Correct. And every time that pass comes in. Here's what I want you to do. This is old school. I want you to take. Home Depot and get a couple of bricks, like paver bricks for like a dollar, maybe two bucks max. And I want you to get some masking tape or some duct tape and tape it on that brick. And I want you to write down a thing you remember that you did to one kid or to another kid or to another kid. Okay. Okay. And I want you to get four or five of them. And I don't, I don't, to where it's uncomfortable to carry them all at the same time, but don't, don't hurt yourself. Okay. Okay. And I want you to go in your backyard,

and I want you just to walk around your backyard while carrying these things. Okay. And after a few minutes, when your arms start to get really heavy, and your hands start to get really raw, I want you to throw them in the back corner of the yard and say to yourself out loud, I'm not carrying this anymore. Okay. And I want you to stack those bricks up in the corner and let them stay there.

Okay. And every time you wake up, you're doing something, you see some mom holding her baby, and your body rips you back 30 years to when you had to run for your life. I want you to say out loud, I'm not carrying that anymore. I am loving me, and I'm loving my family moving forward. Okay? Okay. You're going to have to practice taking control of your thoughts and your actions. When's the last time you saw a counselor?

Oh, probably about 10 years ago. Okay. The time is right now. I'm worried about you. Okay? I don't trust now. I'm worried about you. Okay. I don't trust anyone. I trust no one. There will be no peace in your life unless you open up your heart to trust somebody.

And that's why I recommended a counselor and not a friend because they are restricted through their code of ethics. She will lose her job or he will lose his job and possibly have more ramifications if they violate your confidentiality. It's a safe place, but you have to practice being safe in relationship again because your body has said no more. Fair? Okay. Yeah. Do you trust me at least? I'm just a dumb podcaster we never even met yeah actually I've been binge watching you

looking for my answers but I didn't find them the two paths forward here is a conscious decision every day I'm not going to carry the past with me anymore it's just dragging me down. It's not helping my current situation and it's not helping my relationships moving forward.

And I'm going to go meet with a counselor because I need some new skills on relationship building. And they're going to be a teacher. It's not a place for you to go to complain and whine and all that. That's not what we're doing. We're going to be a teacher. It's not a place for you to go to complain and whine and all that. That's not what we're doing. We're going to learn some new skills, and I want you to walk in the door of a counselor and say these words. I need help learning to forgive myself so that I can love recklessly and enjoy the last 30 years of my life.

Okay. Okay? Okay. And you will show up to your kids To the one or two that will meet with you You will show up to them In a few months As a ray of light

Not as a Something that like a dementor That's trying to take something from them Okay It will be something that is You're providing light to the room It You are it's a whole new being Because ann is finally Loving ann

And you can't expect anybody in the world to do something. You're not willing to do for yourself correct So i'm i'm not going to ask my kids to forgive me and love me until I love myself and I forgive myself And one can't be contingent on the other because then it's not true forgiveness. It's them trying to prop mom up. It's crutches. It's not a new sidewalk. Okay. Wow. Okay. I don't know if there's enough time left for me to forgive myself, but I'll try. Listen to me. You have to choose life.

Right now, every morning you wake up, you get yourself on a one-way bus to hell because that's where you think you belong. And that's not true. You don't belong in hell. You belong right next to me, hanging out, having nachos in Texas. But only you, Ann, only you can decide not to get on that bus

every single morning and beat yourself up and take yourself to hell because that's where people like me go. You got 30 years left to start living. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future.

I want you to read it. I'm also going to send you a copy of, let's see what else we got. I'm going to send you my friend, my friend, Ken Coleman's book, proximity principle. That's going to help you think about what you can do for work and career. And what I'm trying to do is get you into maybe not start a new career, but get you into a place where you're have purpose and your value. You got to go somewhere every day. You got to be around other people. You got to start saying hello. And you got to start saying, I don't like

that. And this is going to be about relational practice. It's a great read. It's easy to read, but it'll be good for you. Okay. And you got to call a professional therapist today. That's your promise to me. Okay. I love you, Ann. Choose life moving forward. Choose it. We're rooting for you, my sister. We'll be right back. All right, let's go to Kayla. You got me on my knees, Kayla. In Winchester.

What's up, Kayla? A guy picked me up at a bar one time like that. Did it work? I don't remember. Probably. So that means, yes. You brought back a crazy memory. That means, yes.

That's fantastic. So what's up? Well, my question is, should I write my mom's therapist a letter? Wow. Tell me more. Well, I went no contact with her. Why? This past summer.

I wanted off the crazy train. I don't know how else to put it. Sorry. No, hey, don't be sorry at all. Sometimes we all are going off the rails on the crazy train. Good for you. we're don't be sorry at all sometimes we all are going off the rails on the crazy train good for you so um she has a really traumatic past okay and would remind you of that constantly and she finally did reach out and get help and i was really proud of her for that. Um, but she just kept disrespecting that I wanted to go no contact with her.

I was just done. Um, how is she disrespecting you? Give me an example. Well, we got to a point in our relationship where, like I said, I wanted off the crazy train and just couldn't do it anymore.

What does that mean? Tell me, give me some specifics. Getting really specific. So I asked too much of her and really my father at the same time. So my husband and I were living in a house that was too small for our family. And we decided to get with my parents for them to let us build a house on property that they were going to gift to us like they did for my older brother. And they have a pretty big piece of land. So we paid for the survey. The land was deeded over to us.

My dad is a general contractor. He was supposed to be helping us build the house. Well, tumultuous situation after tumultuous situation, we actually moved in with him because we sold our house and was living in their four bedroom farmhouse. We kind of had our own space. They tried really hard, I guess, not to cramp our style and vice versa. But my mom just kept spinning out. She flew off the handle because she was missing a notebook one day and she thought I had this notebook. Like it's always been, um, just something small that just sets her off. And I mean, she goes,

she goes off the wall about things and she would spin out and it would just remind me of my childhood where her and my father would just fight constantly. And that's how I grew up. Okay. So, hold on. Why? Do you still live in her house? No, they kicked us out after a month.

Okay. They actually told us to get the F out. Okay. So, y'all got the F out and you got a new place, you and your husband? Yes. Okay. So, why the no contact order? Why don't you just block her on your phone and go about your day, go about your life? We live too close to her. So she just kept showing off whenever she wanted. Okay. All right. Did you get your money back for the house mess? Um, we, the timing of it was really bizarre i we only ended up losing about ten thousand dollars

okay when it was all said and done the property is still deeded to us and we just sell it we don't know what to do with it so my husband doesn't feel like it's appropriate to do that well that's between y'all two. Because we have a daughter, right? You want to put your daughter in this crazy mess? No, no, no. She's only three, but we think in our minds, mine and my husband's minds, that that's going to be her property one day. Why in the world would you want another one of your family members to go back to that chaos?

I know, and live next door to crazy. Why? Sell it. Go about your life. Move. It's the craziest thing about america you can live wherever you want to do whatever you want there's something about this situation where you are choosing misery like like no let me say it this way i don't think you're choosing misery i think you've heard me say probably if you ever listen to this show, choose guilt over resentment.

I think you chose guilt, the right thing to do, and I think it's killing you. Yeah, because I have all these outside factors. Like what? Being like, you only have one set of parents. You need to work it out with them. And I tell these people, no. Kayla, Kayla, Kayla. It's just not working it out.

None of those people get a vote. Your mom and your dad have proven themselves to be unsafe people to be around. And every time you listen to another voice, you're deciding, I'm just going to go get my head kicked in for a few minutes. And I, for one,

I don't practice MMA anymore. I haven't in a long time. So I don't choose to get my head kicked on a regular basis anymore. You shouldn't either. They don't get a vote. I mean, I've tried to set up boundaries you know i told them to give me time after all of that that was just a terrible situation that i put my family in and she came back and this was verbatim your dad is very upset about this and if we're not worthy to be a part of your family we we want our family's land back.

And she goes, I don't know what to do. He cries all the time. This is very sad. He doesn't have many years left and you're stealing more. Like, placing all the guilt on me about this entire situation. She went around and told people that I'm the one with the problem. Kayla, Kayla, Kayla, Kayla, Kayla. You've heard the old wife's tale about the

rattlesnake in the paper bag? You ever heard that? No. So there was a guy who had a rattlesnake on the ground and he picked it up and scooped it into a plastic paper bag and the rattlesnake said, ground. Then he picked it up and scooped it into a paper bag. And the rattlesnake said, hey, thanks, man.

I really appreciate you. I'd love it if you, I got an itch in the back of my head. I can't scratch it. I'd love it if you scratch that itch for me. And the guy was like, sure, man. And he reached in the bag to scratch that itch and the rattlesnake bit him. And he's like, why'd you do that? And he's like, well, I'm a rattlesnake bit him and he's like what are you why'd you do that and he's like well i'm a rattlesnake that's what i do and the guy's like that was the meanest thing i was just kind to you and whatever he's like i know i'm a rattlesnake this is what i do

and then a little while later the the rattlesnake's like hey man i'm sorry that was that's 100 on me my bad i need to. Um, but I still got that crazy itch. Will you please get it? And the guy's like, no, last time you bit me. And he's like, I know, I know. Anyway, he reached in to scratch him again and it bites him again. He goes, I told you I'm a rattlesnake. It's what I do. And at that point, the second bite on is that guy's fault. Cause he keeps putting his hand back in the bag Your mom has clearly demonstrated that she does not want to be in relationship with you She wants you as a proxy to make her husband feel less crappy because she can't do it She wants you in their life so that they have a punching bag other than each other

But she doesn't want a relationship with you. A loving mother-daughter relationship. And I hate that for you because that's one of the most precious relationships in the world. Well, it's never been there. Right. Why are you continuing to scream and fight for it? Because she will not leave me alone about it.

And you gave her a no contact order, right? No, I don't know what that is. I thought you said you gave her no contact. Oh, you went no contact. You just blocked her. You haven't called the police and said, I want a no contact order filed on this woman. No, I never did that.

Okay, you can do that and make it illegal for her to come to your house or to contact you. If she refuses to accept your boundaries, you can go one step further. And there's nothing in the way she's acted towards you that would make me think that she's one day going to get it. That's right. Right. And I mean, she showed up two weeks ago to invite me to another therapy appointment, which would be sitting down next to her with her therapist, which just seems insane. She actually was level-headed talking to me. She was still saying the same things, but she was at least level-headed and she didn't seem high. And I was like, well,

maybe there is some hope in this but she still was saying the same thing blaming other people for her actions she she just doesn't take any accountability Kayla you've you've got to I know it's frustrating I can't even imagine and I know it's heartbreaking I can't even imagine. And I know it's heartbreaking. I can't even imagine. But every time she shows up, you sound surprised. And every time she shows up, your body's experiencing this as though it's happened. It happened the first time. Oh, yeah.

Just tick off. Yeah. So until you can be safe, your body will chill out around her. You got to create space. And that might mean you talk this over with your husband, but that might mean you let her know. I've asked you repeatedly for some space for you to stop showing up at my house, for you to stop calling me and blaming me for everything going on in your home. I'm happy to sell you this land back. Or if quite honestly, if it was me, I would probably dust my hands off and give them the stupid land back. And because they have clearly made it the dirt is more important than you i'll repeat that that dirt is more important than you and your grant in their grandkid your kid and your husband here's the dirt back bye my life is too short feel how you feel right now

at this point forward, you're choosing to put your hand back in the bag and get bit over and over and over again. I would make one last stand and say, if you come again, I'm going to contact the police. I'm going to file a no contact order. I don't want you on my property. I don't want you calling me.

I don't want you connecting with me at this time I will reach back out to you when I feel ready And answer your original question, yes um her counselor If she's has any ethics at all cannot even tell you that she's seeing her as a client Can't even acknowledge that this person's a counselor. I mean, a client of mine, but she can receive information and data from outside sources. So absolutely. I think it'd be great to send a letter. I think that stuff's always healthy. That'd be wonderful. Don't expect

any sort of return from the therapist. The therapist would, you should file this. The therapist should lose their license if she writes you back is what I'm saying. Other than to say, I've received your note. Thank you. Anything beyond that, like, oh, this is for your mom. That's great. But yeah, send it, send it. And ask yourself this question. How long am I going to avoid the hard part, which is grieving the fact that my mom is choosing these other things over me? And instead of choosing that season of grief that you're going to have to go through one way or another, you're choosing to get bit over and over and over again. This sounds crazy.

Choose grief. Choose heartbreak for a season. Because on the other side of grief, on the other side of heartbreak, that, Kayla, is where healing is. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy

today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, I'm actually recording this on Valentine's Day. None of these calls were Valentine's Day calls for sure, but in an effort to give Kelly what she wants, this is, what was the song? This was like, is you and Robert danced to this song? Yes, it's the song we danced to at our wedding. I know. I can see you glowing in there.

This is this is the song Kelly and her husband Robert danced to on their wedding. It's called You and I. We can conquer the world and it goes like this. Here we are on earth together.

It's you and I. God has made us fall in love, it's true. That's mean. You have to fall in love with Kelly. I've really found someone like you. Will it stay the love you feel for me? Will it say that you will be by my side to see me through until my life is through? Will in my mind we can conquer the world in love, you and I?

You and I, Kelly and Robert, you and I. Love you guys. We'll see you soon.