The Dr. John Delony Show - How Do I Know if Our Marriage Is Over?

Episode Date: June 17, 2022

Today, we hear from a husband wondering if his marriage is over since his wife won’t get help for her bipolar disorder, a mom worried her teenage son isn’t taking more responsibility for his life, and a woman who recently broke off an engagement but hopes they can still make it work. Lyrics of the Day: "Ok Not To Be Ok" - Demi Lovato& Marshmello Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Shortly after going on a budget, she was at first on board with, you know, trying to take control of our money. And then it started to take a turn where she said that she didn't want to have anybody telling her what to do with her money. You making this phone call is an act of bravery.

And so I applaud you. Woo! You making this phone call is an act of bravery, and so I applaud you. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So glad that you're with us. Talk about mental health, relationships, schools, whatever's going on in your life, the madness, the good stuff, whatever's going on. If you want to be on the show, 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. Love to have you on and walk alongside you with whatever's going on in your life.

And rolling up my sleeves here, man. If you don't get the sleeve roll right, it's just kind of dumb. I don't know, dude. I'm a fashionista. I'm pretty incredible. We should do a segment on how to roll your sleeves up. I have a lot of opinions. Hey, if you don't want to call, go to johndeloney.com slash ask.

That's A-S-K, johndeloney.com slash ask. And like we talked about last show, I'm excited to announce five new additions. Questions for Humans cards coming out soon. Here's a sneak peek at some of the new decks. We've got multiple decks coming out over the next several months. Some for very specific groups like educators and other places. But the five that we're announcing right now, workplace edition. So this is like I just started a new job or I'm a new boss. I'm a new leader or we're at a retreat and now we're all staring at each other or we have leadership

luncheons or whatever. And we, I don't like you guys. I don't even know how to talk to you guys. Now I've given you an entry point and it is very, very lo-fi, very simple and no apps. And you can tell everybody to put your phones away. Workplace edition, we have dating edition. So we have the cards that, the best-selling cards by far are the relationship ones, right? People are married,

they've been dating for a long, long time and we're gonna swan dive into this thing deeper. And I've had couples that are married for 20 years that circle back and be like, I did not know this stuff about my spouse. And we laughed and we cried. So these are dating. These are, hey, we're fresh off the internet,

so let's meet in person. And now you find yourself over coffee or your first dinner or your third dinner and you're like, what do we do now? We have talked about all our bands that we like and all the dumb stuff that happened to us in middle school and why I don't like my dad and why your mom is weird.

And now we're stuck. And so these cards are for people who are just getting into dating. And there's a girls' night out and a guys' night out. And I said last time I was not a fan of these. Number one, I got no business writing a deck of cards for girls' night out because I've never been on one of those. And I don't know what happens on one of those. So we got some incredible women here in the office to help alongside that

and to create some cards. And it wasn't just a bunch of dudes in a room. That would have been ridiculous. And you guys kept asking for it. Hey, we want cards for girls night. And so, ta-da, we got you. And then we got the guys night cards out. And by the way, they're not broed out.

Yeah, bro, what you... These cards are for everybody. So whether y'all are playing dungeons and dragons or whether you're on a camping trip or hunting trip or whether you are like on uh you're doing your weekend deployment for your once a month um check-in with your uh you know with national guard you can use these anywhere for any group it's going to be great and then there's the Parents and Teens Edition. For some reason, teenagers just change languages,

and they change smells, and they change everything else. And these cards are designed specifically for parents and teens to begin to communicate with one another in a little bit different way. You can use them when you're driving, for the breakfast. I want you all to take with your kids, all of them. So Workplace Edition, Dating Edition, Girls Night Out, Guys Night Out, Parents and Teens. Go to johndeloney.com slash humans. You can pick them all up and they're going to come in a bundle too, pack also that I'm excited about.

So go pick them up. Begin transforming your family tree. Put the screens down and start connecting. So excited. All right, let's go to the phones. Let's go to David in Fresno, California. What's up, David? How we doing?

Not as good as I deserve, Dr. John, but I thank you for taking the time to talk to me. You got it, man. So let's get into it, brother. What's up? How can I help? So me and my wife are together in one from a previous marriage. Hey, hold on one second.

You cut out on me, so back up and do that one over again. Yeah. So me and my wife have been married for three years now. We have two kids, one together and one from her previous relationship. And recently we've been hitting a point where she seems to be disconnecting from me. A couple months ago, we hit the point that I felt was financial ruin. Um, and the first time in my adult life of 15 years, uh, was late making payment for the house, um, for rent. And I felt like everything was crushing around me. Um, I discovered Dave, Dave Ramsey and the Ramsey network. And we discussed about going on a budget, um, shortly after going on a budget, her,

she was at first on board with, you know, trying to take control of our money. And then it started to take a turn where she said that she didn't want to, um, have anybody telling her what to do with her money. And then recently on Sunday, we were having a conversation where she, um, she told me that because of my desire to open and expand our communication, that I'm pushing her away. And I'm at a point where I'm not sure what to do. How long have y'all been together, man? Four years.

Four years. Well, I know this much. I haven't been married for a lot longer than that. You making this phone call is an act of bravery. And so I applaud you. It's hard. Good for you, man. Often when somebody, when couples have these moments, these breakthrough moments.

Actually, let me back up. What happened financially? What pushed you over the cliff? Somebody, when couples have these moments, these breakthrough moments. Actually, let me back up. What happened financially? What pushed you over the cliff? So she was unemployed for the last year after my daughter was born. Okay. Was she unemployed or was she being a stay-at-home mom? Being a stay-at-home mom, she started to do some small businesses because we were just skimming by on my income. Okay, here's the deal. The language we use truly matters deeply in some of these situations, okay?

And so there's a difference between saying she was just sitting around unemployed and we chose for her to stay at home for a year with our newborn in a mix of both. Does that make sense? One of those has some vitriol in it. It's got some character assassination to it. One of them is we agreed mutually we're going to scrape and claw our way by because we think this is more important in this season. Does that make sense? Yeah. And maybe y'all weren't that intentional about it.

I wasn't as intentional about it. Okay. It was kind of a decision that she made, and I was told that this is what I'm going to do because I think that it's best. Okay. And from my perspective, there was, looking at the numbers and the math of it, it was going to be a strong burden.

And trying to maintain the level of life that we were both wanting to live with bringing this new life. Did you sit down and have that conversation? Yes. I'm looking at the numbers and I'm scared about what the next year is going to hold for us. I did. Okay. At first, it looked like it could be possible, but then I sat down and we were

looking at the numbers for the next year and I said, with the added expenses of diapers, clothes that are going to be coming every two weeks because the baby's not going to stop growing, I don't see how we're going to be able to make this work. And at that point she said, well, then I'll start making baby clothes. I'll start making bows. And she started that business of hers online, but she didn't, she didn't put, she wasn't committed to it. It was a, I'll make it when I feel like it. Uh, I'm not going to go out and really try to

sell these bows and then, but I'm just going to continue to buy the fabric to make the clothes that I want to make for my child. So you end up losing money on a side hustle. Yes. Yeah. Um, hustle yes yeah um what is whenever i hear couples say they can't get on the same page or somebody calls them in your situation by the way your situation is very very common okay often there's a backstory and the backstory usually not always usually is something like a woman marries a guy who's a schemer. He's always got a plan. If we just do this, then we can get here. And if we can't do that, then we're going to do this.

I'm going to buy this car. I'm going to flip it for this. There's always a thing going. So then when things get scary, we're broke. Like you are as a husband, and I've been there, by the way, where you're pacing around at night when your wife and kid are asleep and you have your hands on your knees because you can't breathe and you're like, I don't know how we're going to do this. I've been there. It's a scary feeling. Am I right?

Yeah. So then you get on YouTube and you find Ramsey Solutions, which I happen – I work here because I happen to believe it's the best program that exists for walking people through how to deal with your money as a path to freedom. And then the next morning, she wakes up. You're all excited. You tell her all about it. I got this plan. Here's what we're going to do. And your excitement wins the day for a few weeks until the reality of it wears off. And it's less about the

plan and it's less about unification. And it's more about how it was pitched and it's just a steady, it's just another scheme and a long line of schemes. And so putting her aside, like I want to set her over for a second, because at the end end of the day the only thing on planet earth you can control is you and that you can deal with do you have anger issues do you have frustration issues i hear in your voice resentment i hear in your voice like you're done and now you don't know what to do or i hear you in your voice giving up and it might be financially it might just be you're exhausted it might be you're done with the marriage. I don't know where you are, but I can feel it on you. Tell me where you are. I'm getting to the point of burnout.

Okay. Between working full time, I was able to get to a point where I got into a job and pursuing a career that I love and I'm super passionate about. And I got excited because I finally went from working in a job for a job instead of working on a vacation as a vocation. Okay. And what's that job? What are you doing? So I work in a recruitment team. Okay. doing? Uh, so I work in a recruitment team. Um, I do entry level recruitment specifying in veterans

and people with disabilities. Love it. Awesome. And that's, that's good work. All that's, that serves everybody, right? That's fantastic. And are you good at it? Yeah. Um, I came on the, I came on the team, um, quickly got recognized on a national level with the company for my endeavors in the recruitment and the outreach that we do, creating community engagement across the entire nation between the company and veteran organizations. But you have another side to you. What is it? It feels that, I feel that I have to handle everything. Why? Who told you you have to deal with everything? It's the actions. I come home from work.

I pick up my daughter, go home from work. And I have to... Is your daughter at daycare? She stays with family. What does your wife do during the day? She works as a bank teller. So she is working now? Yeah, she got a job a few months ago. She's working as a bank teller. So she is working now? Yeah, she got a job a few months ago.

She's working as a bank teller. Okay. So she gets home shortly after I do, if not maybe just a little bit before, but because of where she works, I pick up my daughter. Okay. It's more cost effective because it's on the way home for me rather than her driving out of her way. Absolutely.

And I've got memories of picking up my son and taking my son to school, taking my daughter to school that are, that are great memories. Take me, man, you and I could unpack this for a long time. I want to, two things I know for sure. One, I'm not getting the full picture here. Okay. Not calling you dishonest. There's something else here that's big. The second thing is it sounds like one of two things is happening.

Either when I say something, I'm not getting the full picture. Either there's something that you have done or that makes you untrustworthy or a way you respond or you get angry or you shut down. There's something here that is contributing to the wedge. And I don't know what it is, and that's a whole other phone call, okay? But I want you to be honest with yourself about what you bring to this. The second part of this is it sounds like two people trying to do life the way they want it to be done and without sitting down and mapping out saying hey who are we gonna be together and not about money yet not about how we're gonna raise kids yet not about

our what are we doing like what are we building together because we building together? Because we're now joined. We're forever in relationship. Even if we got divorced tomorrow, we are forever in relationship because we have a child together. And so who do we want to be? What do we want to become? What do we want to do? And that's a different conversation than, hey, I think I can get us out of debt. Because one of those is a scheme. The other one is, let's change everything. And getting out of debt is a path to freedom and peace in our home that both of you may not have ever known. I don't know your childhoods. And then when you have that conversation and somebody says, I'm out.

I don't want to do that. I don't want to dream with you. I don't want to be on the same page. Parenting, like I'm going to raise my kid how I want to raise my kid. I don't want you telling me what to do with my money. I don't care about that. Then we're going to look at things like, are there mental health issues? Is this person just not want to be married to you? And that's a hard reality to face, but we got to face it. Otherwise, everyone just gets miserable and we have to deal with that. You see where I'm headed here? It seems like there are some broad, deep,

or I'll just tell you in my house, we have a money conversation every two weeks or so, but for sure 100% every month when we get paid. We have a calendar conversation once a week. What does this week look like? What do you need from me this week? How can I honor you this week? It's gonna be deposit week. What does this week look like? What do you need from me this week? How can I honor you this week? It's going to be deposit week. So I'm going to be busier at work. It's going to be not deposit week. This is recruiting week. This is the end of the month. So we got to get our numbers up.

Like it's being a part of one another's flow of life. And if somebody opts out of that, I do not want to participate in life with you. Now we're going to have big, hard conversations about, is this marriage viable? Does that make sense? Yeah. No, it does. Have you had those guys? What I hear often is people think they've had that conversation and they have not. Not to that level.

Okay. It's been more of like a breeze over and like, okay, what are we going to do this week? Oh, we've got A, B, C, and D going. Okay, well, I can take care of this, you can take care of that, but not in the depth of

how can I help support you? What you just said is beautiful because that's what's happened to relationships all across the country, especially during the pandemic, which is couples became great co-managers of a household. They are not a married couple with intimacy and connection striving to create something beautiful in the world and change family trees. You get the difference there? Hey, I got this task. You get kid.

I'll get this. You pick up dinner on the way home. We'll collapse on the couch, watch an episode. Will you do bedtime? I'll get this. I'll do the diaper. And then we repeat. That's a life of co-management.

It's a life of misery. And at some point, one of y'all will go looking for connections somewhere else, if not both of you. And it sounds like you guys met, you've been dating for four years. I mean, I mean,

y'all you've known her for four years. I mean, you've known her for four years. Then you got married relatively quick, right? And you had a kid? Yep. Okay. And then you got into the pandemic, and then you all had some major money issues. And so there's been one crisis after another after another, and it's hard to get your footing back when you're out to sea,

and you just can't seem to touch. And you're swimming as hard as you can, and you get one toe down in the water, I mean on the ground, and then you're off back out at sea again. But I would love for you to spend a few minutes, a couple hours writing down what you need. Not what you're trying to solve, not what you're trying to fix. Like, dude, my name is David and here's what I need. I miss my wife. I want to breathe when it comes to money. I want to not worry about money. I want to be good at my job.

I want to be a great dad. I want to co-parent together really well. And then I want you to take your wife out to breakfast and say, hey, we're going to spend a couple hours. And we got married quick. We've shot out of a cannon quick. You're struggling with things. Um, you tell your desire to be open with her, makes her more uncomfortable for some reason. Uh, why do you think that is by the way? She had no health issues or can you be loud and, and kind of, this is my way. No, we both can be loud and this is my way. She has been diagnosed with severe depression.

After she was diagnosed, I knew that I needed help, so I sought a counselor, and I've been seeing a counselor for the past few months because I'm living with somebody that is not okay and I need to know how to manage my feelings in it. Awesome. Good for you, man. That's fantastic. Have you noticed some things working with a counselor that you need to change? A lot of what the counselor and I have been working on is understanding the functions of the behaviors in our house.

Not only mine, but hers and the kids. And then once I can start understanding the function of the behaviors I can start addressing my reaction okay you keep doing what your counselor says but I'm going to add to that I want y'all to sit down together go to breakfast and I want you to

ask each other, are we still both in this? Are you, are you, do you want to be married to me? And this is going to be a risk taking vulnerable conversation because I want to be married to you and I want to create a pretty amazing life. And depending on how she grew up and depending on how you grew up, y'all may have come from really combustible homes where relationships and intimacy and vulnerability weren't safe, weren't good, weren't okay. And we're going to have to build something new that we've never even seen before. But are you still in? Because I am.

And from there, draw on a piece of paper a couple of columns. What are your dreams about where we're going to live? What do you want to do professionally or not do professionally? What about when it comes to money? Let's dream about a house. If you could pick any house, what would it look like? Is it a ranch style house? Is it a 5,000 square foot house? What does it look like? And then what we're going to do is we're going to commit together. We both want to see these things come to fruition. What do we have to do? And then it goes back to what your counselor was talking about, our behaviors. What do we have to change in our everyday life to make this stuff happen? And now you are in it together. And one

of those tools is getting out of debt. One of those tools is healing your marriage and your relationship. So here's what I'm going to do for you, man. I'm going to send you, stay on the line, and Jenna's going to pick up. I'm going to give you a year subscription to Ramsey Plus. All of the Financial Peace videos, all of the EveryDollar app that all of us use around here because it's the best on the market to help keep track of all your spending. And it helps your wife can buy something over here and I can buy some over here and it all dumps into the same app, which is great. And I'm also going to send you a copy of my book on your past, change your future. It's about saying,

okay, here's what happened. And now what are we going to do next? So I'm going to give you a bunch of tools, but I want you to sit down and have a true conversation with your wife at a retreat, not at home, not in a fight. This is a beautiful planning opportunity and a risk because she might say, hey, I want out. I do not want to be with you. And then y'all have to deal with what comes next after that. But I don't think she's there.

Start there and let's build something new. Let's create a picture of where we're going to live into. And then we're going to get the tools. And I've given you a bunch, a couple hundred dollars for the tools. And we're going to reverse engineer this thing. And then we're going to go make it work day by day by day. Okay. Give that a shot. And it may be time for marriage counseling for both of you. She's struggling with mental health. You're struggling to love her in new ways and different ways and to act differently. It may be good for both of you to She's struggling with mental health. You're struggling to love her in new ways and different ways and to act differently. It may be good for both of you

to go see somebody together. All right. I'm proud of you, David. Check back in with me and let me know. I'm going to walk alongside you on this one. We'll be right back.

All right, we're back. Let's go to Mandy in Portland, Oregon. What's up, Mandy? Hey, how are you? See, I'm dancing on the ceiling, Lionel Richie style. What's up? What are you doing?

Fantastic. I'm sitting in my car talking to you. Sweet. I know, right? All good things happen when you have to hide in the car to talk. What's up? Well, yeah. So the topic of discussion is getting ready for school.

So I decided to head down the road and have a conversation in peace. A bit of a backstory here and then kind of the core of our question. I have a 15-year-old freshman. It's his first full year back to school since COVID in 2020. We took a break and homeschooled him, so he's back with friends, which has been good and bad. Um, notice the last few months that he's having a lot of difficulty, um, both at kind of at home and school. He's generally a really mellow, easygoing kid having a hard time keeping his grades up, not participating in class. Um, started to find some communication with friends on his phone that, uh,

a lot of drama, just a lot of, um, really kind of, uh, I hate to say this, but it almost feels like a competition amongst friends of like who can have the most drama in their life at any given point in time. And, um, there was some, some stuff that was just flat out, not even honest or truthful. So we, we called him out on that, just some stuff he was saying about his home life that doesn't even remotely happen. Um, we did see some interesting conversations between him and his best friend and his best friend did say at a point, you know, Hey, are you, are you okay? Like you wouldn't think about hurting yourself. He's like, well, I've thought once or twice, but I would never do it. This is something that seems really outside of his character. Um, but we asked him

about that, of course. Um, but now, you know, it's, uh, a comment. Um, and then he did kind of go into some stuff that I hadn't heard from him before. Like, uh, he doesn't like how he looks and he he's, he's really thin and tall. He doesn't like his body and he doesn't like this and he doesn't like that. Um, which, you know, understandable teenagers, a little bit tough. Um, but as we started digging, we just kept finding more and more things like the stuff on his phone that he knows he's not supposed to have. Um, you know, we keep calling him out on that, just struggling at home to do the smallest things like use soap in the shower, like wash your hair. Um, just these things that I know comes along with teenagers, but basically anytime we shut him down on something, he, he's now kind of resorted to

going behind our back and finding a new way to do it. So, um, take away the phone and the school kind of has free for all on their iPads. So then he's sneaking the iPad to talk to friends and, um, doing things on the iPad. And they're supposed to be locked down by the school, but they're really not, we found out. He's on it a lot at school during the day and not getting his schoolwork done. We've reached out to teachers. They don't really seem to care a whole lot, which is interesting. So for me, we did have a blow up after I wrote you and he made the comment again

about, you know, I think about hurting myself. Um, so at that point I kind of put on the brakes and said, we're, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna look for a counselor, um, to kind of maybe help him process some of this stuff because it's he and I, 90% of the time, stepdad. We've been married since he was six together since he was three. So he's a constant figure, but he's, uh, works for the sheriff's office and has gone a lot. Um, and, and then dad, sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead. Dad lives close by, um, but they don't see each other, you know, every week or so. Um, but dad is great about helping. Like if he's grounded from something,

he'll be consistent and follow through on it. But he's not proactive in terms of like, we're going to monitor how much he's on games and we're going to have some boundaries and we're going to have some structure.

It's just more like, hey, come on up and it's kind of a free for all. So I don't feel like that's one more battle that I can't really take on and control. It's not my home up there. I spoke about what I feel is good for our son, but I can't really control that piece. So we're together a lot and we're kind of battling all that. But at the end of the day, I'm kind of just trying to navigate through

knowing that he's going behind our back and he's doing stuff. He's setting up like hidden gaming accounts. He's making his iPad in the middle of the night. He's kind of done all recon that he could come up with. I'm a bit very creative, but we have some core values in our house with honesty and trust.

And we speak about those a lot and it doesn't really matter what you do. If you're honest about it, you know, we'll work through it. So the problem is, is even when we confront him, he lies until I find evidence. And then I know that he's done something. So we're trying to figure out how to navigate through taking our battles between silly, what seems like silly things like, you know, bathing properly and cleaning up after yourself and picking up your room and those things versus the things that are really kind of core value, important, growing him into a accountable kind of resilient member

of society. We notice a lot of other parents around us are really lax and don't seem to be tuned in. So we battle that a lot of, oh, my friend gets to do this and my other friend gets to do this. Yes. So here's, let me hop in here. Well, get to a core question for me, because there's a lot here we could talk about. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot. So yeah, picking my battles, picking our battles of what, you know, because I feel like the last couple of months I'm on him every day. Like I don't even look for things and I, and they're there and it's exhausting. And I know that he's exhausted and now there's this anger and there's resentment and some days

are fine, but other days are just fire. And so picking my battles on, you know, not hammering them every day, but then on these bigger issues and the honesty and the, um, being transparent and being honest about things when they do go down. Where, where has he, where has he picked that up? You know, I'm, I'm not sure. Um, we've had instances before where he's come clean on stuff and like it does does you or his dad or a stepdad exaggerate things get flustered about things uh no okay so it's just all i'm not sure i'm not sure at his dad's house i don't think so his dad's pretty even-tempered okay i definitely grew up with that with explosive

parents and so that's a whole nother part of this where I'm trying not to be like them. Right. So I feel like sometimes do I go the other way? And here's the thing. When we're nuclear reactors, like I said in a previous call, when you're trying not to do a thing, our kids feel that. And so it ends up the same. It's less than smashing a counter until a cabinet until the door falls off.

But if I'm sitting there raged out, staring at the floor because I'm so mad I can't look at my kid. I'm saying, I'm not going to yell. I'm not going to yell. I'm not going to hit the counter. I'm not going to bang things. They're still feeling this nuclear reactor inside of me. And they find themselves, they find themselves responsible for the emotional reactivity

of the adults in the room. And so backing all the way out, regardless of how long stepdad's been there, there's going to be this toggle. Okay. There's going to be, until it's addressed with a counselor

and it's addressed with you and directly and this is a process right this isn't just like a one conversation over dinner kind of thing um he's going to as he gets older begin to ask the question what was it about me that that dad didn't like and why he left what was it about me what did i do to contribute at that young of an age how have i had to navigate this relationship with this new stepdad and it's kind of weird and it's all it's going to be normal for him to pull away from that and think that his real dad's the greatest guy ever and then that will switch completely and then you're the bad guy and then she he's the there's going to be that natural back and forth and the word word that I love that Dr. Gabor Mate uses to describe that

is just internal chaos inside of a kid. Okay. And so when I'm trying to get to the bottom of these type of things that you're mentioning, the two words I'm going to always go back to are connection and chaos. Where does this human being feel plugged in to the point that he can drop his shoulders and say, here I am? And if every interaction is, did you use soap? Oh my gosh, how are you in there? What are you doing in there? Use soap. You told me you don't like how you look and look at your acne or whatever's going on with a 15-year-old boy, right? Right, exactly, yeah. Then what the child knows, I don't get connection there.

I get lectured. I get combative interaction. And I have to have that relationship with my parents. And so I'm gonna keep coming back. I'm gonna keep coming back. I'm gonna keep coming back. But I'm gonna go find connection somewhere else. And if I can find connection with people who all wear all white goth makeup and listen to slow droning metal music, cool.

I'll find connection there. If I find connection with people who are, oh, yeah, you know what's going on in my house? Oh, yeah, I guess what's going on in my house? Then I'm going to find it there because that's where I'm able to ring a bell where people will go, oh, tell me more about that. Because he doesn't get that at home. He gets, pick up your room. What are you doing? You know what I'm able to ring a bell where people will go, oh, tell me more about that. Because he doesn't get that at home. He gets, pick up your room. What are you doing?

You know what I'm saying? And then when he looks around the landscape, it's somebody's missing. This guy's trying his best and I like him, but he's also, if I like him, then I'm being disloyal to my dad.

And if I'm disloyal to my, you know what I mean? There's just this toggle going on. And then, man, you hand somebody a screen and there's just, it's a giant pacifier. It's a, it's a, it's, it's a giant joint of the most potent marijuana. It just calms everything out. And it's hard not to keep going back and keep going back and keep going back. I don't, here's how I'd parse this stuff out. When it comes to, I'll just tell you about conversations I've had in my house.

Is that cool? The conversations I've had in my house, my son's 12, is there's been a few seasons when I've sat down and said, I love you and I've talked to you about, you know, wearing your clothes. I'm going to stop having that conversation. I'm going to stop talking to you about your hair. Because here's what I know. There's a Darwinian thing that happens. He's going to have a friend that's like, is that what you're wearing? And then that will put an end to that, right? Or he'll get with a group of guys who all love that he

wears his clothes that way. And good for them, right? I am going to make a conscious decision. I'm out on that. If you want some help with acne, with a workout program, with a thing, I am all in it for you. I will walk through hell with you. But I'm going to stop hounding you. When it comes to honesty, you got to be honest here. You got to be honest here. Here's a great bridge. And you've probably heard me say this if you listen to the show regularly.

A great bridge to honesty with a kid is a notebook that you and him share. And you say it's private and you put it on his bed and say, here was how your day was. And all I want him to, he has to respond to it and put it back on your bed when he's done.

He can write 15 paragraphs. He can write one sentence. Today was fine. And I'm not going to hound him for his answers, but I'm going to keep showing up. I'm going to keep showing up. And this is a five-month game, a year game. But what you're doing is just giving him a place

where he can write it down and be honest. Because right now, interactions he's learned are not safe. And I'm not saying you were wrong or out of line for getting onto him about using soap and bathing and put his clothes away. All those things are normal. They just begin to add up and add up and add up. We will have, I think it's a hundred years.

I think we've created a generational curse by what happened with the two to three years of kids being stuck. Okay, I do. And I'm not going to, it's just an is, kind of like I got to deal with gas prices right now and me losing my mind about it and getting angry and raged out and punching things. It solves nothing

about gas prices. So, I know that my kids are going to struggle with connection for a long, long, long time. And so, I'm going to be super highly intentional. In my house, I went and bought a foosball table and an air hockey table. They're cheap. I got them off the internet

and they're not going to survive my kid's childhood. But my son said, dad, friends don't want to come over here. We don't have any video games. And so we just, we stare at each other. And so, okay, cool. I'm going to give you all that too. And by the way, Hey, to my wife, we're going to budget once a month. We're going to take the kids somewhere and do a thing. I'm going to start curating this connection because they're not getting it any other place. And you and your husband have to have some hard conversations. If my kid had unfettered access to the internet via a school device, I would raise bloody hell about that. I'm already not cool with the Chromebook stuff, but I've been convinced that

there's enough supervision on those to at least block the majority of the stuff. Well, what we learned is that the elementary and junior high level, they're really locked down. We had no idea at the high school level, they do nothing. He can go on YouTube, he can do whatever he wanted. So it's driving me mad because I send them off to school with this tool that they've given him. And then they call me and say, well, your kid's not doing well in this class because he's not participating. And I'm like, well, here's why. I would have conversations like, well, then you got to come up with an alternative assignment for my child and we'll put him through the ARD process. But he will not be on screens because his screens

contribute to the following behaviors. And so if you have to go some ADA route, I'm sure there's a path you could take. I don't know, dude. I'm shooting it off the hip here. But I'm going to tell my school, you've got to come up with alternative assignments because you all have not put in the structures

for this device, these tools you're handing these children. And I'm not going to give my kid unfettered access to all the pornography in the world and all the violence in the world and all of the crazy conspiracy nonsense and all of the fill in the blank. I'm not going to give them access to all the distractions from the actual learning

that's going on that takes place between a teacher and a student. And so I need y'all to come up with some alternative things and your kid is going to hate it. I know that. It's going to feel weird and isolating and whatever. It's the same as saying, hey, when we were kids, you can't go to a party at that kid's house because his parents don't have supervision and then let you all drink. I'm not sending you over there. And oh, mom, y'all hate me and whatever. No, I love you so much. I'm going to step in the gap. I'd rather

you be mad at me. But that's going to come back to some core values. One of my core values is it's my job to do what I can to help you be safe and to protect your mind and to protect your body. I can't protect you from everything. I had this conversation with my 12-year-old yesterday, actually. You're entering into an age where I can't keep you safe from everything. You're going to have to make some choices. And there's going to be consequences to those choices. And you will always, always,

always have a home to come home to. Always. But I think it's important to split down on a piece of paper. And this is your homework assignment. Write down the things that you just hassle about constantly. Hassle, hassle, hassle, hassle, hassle. And then what are the core values? What are the challenges? And then sit him down and say, hey, I've screwed this up. I'm going to quit hassling you. If you don't clean up your room, that's you just telling me that you don't want to play video games. And that's fine. You don't have to. But if you want to play video games, then the choice you're going to make is that you're going to treat my house with dignity and respect. I'm going to quit nag that you're going to treat my house with dignity and respect.

I'm going to quit nagging you about your clothes and your stuff. I'm just going to stop. And when you're ready, I'm all in. I'll help you with the soap stuff. I'll help you with acne stuff. I'll help you with the products. I'll help you with clothes, whatever y'all can do financially. I really want him to have a purpose in your home. Right now he's purposeless,

he's aimless, and he's doing everything he can to connect. And so it's important for you to look him in the eye over breakfast one morning, just the two of you, or maybe you and your husband, or maybe all three, your ex-husband, your husband, and look him in the eye and say, hey, you matter to us. This house doesn't work without you. We love you. And you contribute, you're a part of this thing. Because when he sees no purpose or bigger picture, then he's gonna go find one somewhere else. So give him one, give him a role to play.

And go back to those core values and say, we're not gonna budge on this. I refuse to budge on honesty. I refuse to budge on honesty. I refuse to budge on integrity, on violence. I'm not going to. I'll fudge on hair product. Have big poofy hair for all I care. And then it starts the accountability process.

He's going to lean up against those boundaries that you draw and say, are these going to hold? Are they still going to love me? And the answer is going to be yes. But think connection. Where can we get him connected to us, to they still going to love me? And the answer is going to be yes. But think connection. Where can we get him connected to us, to each other, to his friends? And then where can we pull some of the strings on this chaos?

And, but he's got to see a counselor. You all got to see a counselor because he's got to heal from the chaos he's been living in for a long, long time. And hopefully y'all can do this healing together. Thank you so, so much for being brave. Thank you for the call. We'll be right back.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest,

a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy.

You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, we got one more. Let's go to Brooke in Washington, D.C. What's up, Brooke? Hello, thanks for taking my call. Thank you for calling.

What's up? I'm asking for some advice on how to move on from a future that I had planned with an ex-fiance. And the feeling of betrayal and abandonment I have when I never really got any closure from him. I'm sorry. It's okay. Did he up and flip a switch on you and take off? Well, kind of. He was actually already away because he was on military orders. Um, so he just called me and told me all this, that he, while he was gone,

he was away for like two months. And during that time he called me and said that, um, he no longer wanted children, um, which wasn't a huge deal for me. Um, but he also said that he doesn't believe in God anymore and, um, considers himself agnostic now. And that was a bigger deal to me, um, because my faith is important to me. Um, and so it just kind of came out of the blue. I was blindsided. Um, he left here in January and told me all this beginning of March, and I haven't seen him since. When he called you, did he end the relationship? Or he's like, hey, I still want to get married. I love you.

Just we're not having kids, and I don't believe in God right now. Yeah, that was kind of how it was. Did you break up with him? Is that why he's the ex-fiance now? I don't know. I say he broke up with me. He would say he, that I broke up with him. I think, um, basically I didn't want us to make like a rash decision over the phone. Um, I asked him if he would like go to counseling with me, um, when he got back and, but for whatever reason, like over the phone conversations and texting,

when we weren't together, just one thing kind of led to another. And, um, we, like, I kind of told him I wanted to postpone the wedding. Um, and because I didn't think there was any way we could like work through that, um, and still get married. we were supposed to get married in july um and so that's what i said he took that as like i was breaking up with him because i told him i would like he had some furniture at his apartment that was mine and i told him like hey i'll like get my furniture out until we figure this out because i was moving i was like i need to move to another apartment and and take my stuff, even though I didn't live with him at the time. So, hey, Brooke, I just met you like two

minutes ago and it sounds like you broke up with him. And you might regret it. You might know it was the right thing for you and be devastated by it but all healing starts with ownership of what we do or what was done to us yeah I guess like yeah I did I kind of was

the one that ended it because I didn't see how we could like make it work at the time before we even went to counseling or anything. Yeah, and hey, you don't have to explain your boundaries to me. They're your boundaries. One of your boundaries for being married to somebody was, I want to be a mom. One of your boundaries for being married to somebody is, I want faith to be a central part of my life

and our relationship. And somebody you were with who had previously committed to those things changed. Yeah. And so they banged their head up. They put, he put his boundaries out. And suddenly you found yourselves in two neighboring homes that were completely walled off from one another. Yeah.

Right. And so we have to ask ourselves about our boundaries is, are these things fixed for me or are, um, this is going to sound crazy. Uh, I used to be obsessed. I used to think the most attractive thing in the world, not the most, but one of the most top 10 was a left-handed girls who write left-handed. I don't know why. I just have a thing. And I love girls who have lots of tattoos. It's just a thing. Always have since I was a kid. I married a teacher, like an elementary school teacher, a right-handed elementary school teacher, no tattoos, right? And in fact, when my friends first met her, they were like, are you serious? Like, what happened to you?

And I was like, no, she's really great. And they're like, I know she's great, but that's what we had in our head that you would bring home. And we had a lot of jokes that we can't use now because you brought home like a teacher, right? And so I tell you that to tell you. Like, I had a boundary. My wife's going to be like this. And then I met the woman who is my wife. And I had to look at my boundaries that I had drawn that were 19 years old.

They were idiotic. And I had to change them because they were dumb. And then there's other boundaries that had she said, hey, I don't, not only do I not share your faith system, but I don't ever want it mentioned in my house. Our kids, if we ever have kids, are not going to have any sort of connection to this. You can go do that on your own, but we're not doing that. That'd been a big deal for me. And I'll also tell you, I've been through years of my marriage where I've been agnostic. I think the whole thing's just stupid. The whole faith thing is just dumb. The whole thing's ridiculous. And I've had cycles of being really high up on it all

and real low up on it all. And now I've settled into a place where I feel really great for like the last five to 10 years in what I believe and how I believe it. And it's very, very different than some of my coworkers. It's different than my wife, but we have a common respect for one another. Does that make sense? And so I don't necessarily think that a guy who's on deployment, who makes a phone call, is suddenly cast himself into stone. It tells me that there's something deeper in this relationship. And my guess is you could pull something apart

that things weren't okay when he left, at some shape, form, or fashion. Is that true? Tell me I'm out to lunch. You can say, no, it was perfect until he left. Um, I mean, I thought it was, I thought it was really good. Um, and when he went out there, he just kind of stopped, um, communicating with me like he normally would. And so like, I kind of did push the issue. I was like, what, what's going on? Um, and he told me like, he, he didn't want to tell me because if I, if he did,

he knew I would break up with him. And so like, I kind of, eventually he did, obviously. Sure. And my guess is there's more to that story. Yeah. My guess is there's more. That either he told you or that he hasn't told you, but you kind of know. That's my guess. Maybe again. He could be sitting here and be like, no, dude, it was just those two things. I mean, I didn't really know. I knew he wasn't as strong in his faith as I was.

But before he left, he was like, oh, I can't wait until when we get back, we'll look for a church together. Because we both had moved to a new state. He's like, we'll look for a church together. We'll find a place that we both like. So is he on deployment now, or is he just in another city? No, he was just in another city for just two months. So is he on deployment now or is he just in another city? No, he was just in another city for just two months. So is he back home now? Yes. Okay.

Have you all gone out? No, he will not see me. Oh, he won't talk to you anymore. Okay. Is he heartbroken or is he done? We talked for a little while, just like on the phone and texting um but he says that he can't do that anymore because it's just harder on him sure he never wanted to meet up with me um because he said he knew that if he saw me he would just want to like tell me basically what I wanted to hear and say he would go to church with me and believe in God for me and all these things. And he's like, that's not fair to you.

And so I don't think he's really – he wasn't really done. He was just like – You know what it sounds like? Mentally, you couldn't take it. Well, it sounds like in a sideways way, however different I would have done it, it sounds like he was trying to honor you. Yeah. And I mean, that's what he said the whole time. He's like, this is me telling you all this was the most selfless thing I could do because I didn't want you to marry me and then resent me.

There you go. And again, if he was sitting here, I'd be like, dude, I would have done this a different way. But he didn't call me and ask me. And so to get back to your original question, you have a picture in your head of July. And you have a picture of your head of August and September. And you have a picture of your head of little knuckleheads running around

and him coming home in his uniform and them meeting him at the door and you have pictures in your head of him coming home surprising you and snatching you away from some grody komodi romantic weekend away you've got pictures in your head of all that stuff. And so when you grieve the loss of somebody, whether they pass away, whether they break up with you, whether they leave you, you have to deal with all of these pictures. You had plans with this dude, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's something you can't skip over.

You can't run around it. There's no hacks. You've got to grieve it. Even to the point where you see something funny and you immediately pick up your phone to text the meme to him. Because that's the next place, right? Or when someone knocks on the door, you instantly, your body knows he's on the other end of that door, even though he's not. Right. Yeah. And I, I felt like I've grieved it. I don't know. I felt like I, um, went through the whole grieving process and then I'm like,

it just cycles back. Like I felt better for a little bit. And then just something small will remind me of him. And I'm like back at the beginning. And like, part of me was like, I really miss him. And a lot of me still just wants to be with him and just be like, it's okay. I can accept that you don't believe what I believe and we can make it work. But he didn't really seem willing to do that either. Like, she's like, no, that's not fair to you. And that honestly is what makes me think there's bigger things to talk about here. I mean, there is, but.

Right. I'm confident there's more to this story. And so let me say this. Just because you miss him doesn't mean that being separated is not the right thing. Yeah. And just because you hurt really, really bad and now you're questioning your own boundaries doesn't mean that you weren't right. And both people in a situation like this, heartbreaking as it is both of you can be right and end up apart

you know what I mean and Hollywood told us that's not how that's supposed to go you know and so you mentioned something important that I want to touch on I think of the grief process

as a spiral and it loops back. And when it loops back and I miss him, I'm not going to grab a drink. I'm not going to immediately turn on Netflix or pick up my phone to start scrolling something. I'm going to sit for five minutes.

I'm just going to sit. I miss that dude. This hurts. I miss that dude okay this hurts I miss him yes and I feel like I've really I don't know

I also feel like I hurt him because I mean he has felt with issues of abandonment before and he said he felt like

I abandoned him and so you have some guilt there you have some guilt there yeah and he said he felt like I abandoned him. And so you have some guilt there. You have some guilt there. Yeah, and then he also said like through this whole process, he's just been pushed further away from what his faith, what he had in, or what his faith was. And you got to be careful because now he's projecting himself onto you. He's making choices about those things now, right?

He's choosing to not see you and to not have closure. He's choosing to, he chose to dump a lot on you on the phone. And he chose not to receive your return dump back on the phone, right? So there comes a point when if he wants to walk away from his faith even faster, great. He's choosing that. That's not something you made him do. Right. If he chooses to not talk to you because talking to you hurts so bad, that's hard to hear.

And it's important to go. And I said it's a spiral. So what happens, what I've seen happen over and over with folks is it loops back. And every time it loops back, if I'll sit in it for a second, for five minutes, for 10 minutes, the next time it loops back, it's still there, but it hurts a little bit less. And it hurts a little bit less. Where I see most people get hung up is they don't want to let go. Yeah. That's what I'm having trouble doing.

And that means you haven't grieved it yet, right? You've hurt, you've been in pain, but grieving is the process of acknowledging reality. This is the way this is. And then asking yourself that scary, terrifying question, what do I do next? Right? And you've been connected to a guy

that's probably a pretty good guy and he's definitely strong. He's got all the good character, all the stuff, but it's been an anchor point for you. And now it's a matter of what's next. I wish there was an easy way. I wish I was like a bio hat. All that's just nonsense.

There's one way through it. One other thing I'll recommend to you, Brooke, is you have to, have to, have to have other people with you while you're grieving. Grief demands a witness, as the great David Kessler says, you gotta have other people with you while you're grieving. Grief demands a witness, as the great David Kessler says. You've got to have other people with you. So you've got to have girlfriends that you hang out with, that you're honest with, that you say,

hey, I'm just not doing okay today, that you text. Today's a low day. I miss him. Or today's a great day. Let's go out. Let's go do something fun, right? Or I don't feel like going out, but I'm going to go anyway because I'm going to end up having a good time

with these two or three or five or six girlfriends or whatever. But make sure you've got friends that you're connecting with. Stay on the line. Jenna's gonna send you a copy of my new book On Your Past, Change Your Future. And it will walk you through the grieving process,

the whole chapter on grief. And what do I do next? I also think it's in this situation. I know there's more to this story. And man, I'd love to unpack it if we had time. I think it's worth saying, hey, when you're ready, breakfast is on me. And I'll meet you at any IHOP or Denny's in the area. We'll meet at 10 o'clock in the morning on a Saturday.

It's on me when you're ready. I'd love to talk. And you can send that in a handwritten letter, not a text message, a handwritten letter to say, Hey, I'd love to talk with you. I miss you. And, um, I know you're hurting, but one day when you're ready, I'll be ready too. So sorry. I wish I had some big fancy dust I could sprinkle over this one, but this one's going to hurt for a while. I'm proud of you for sticking to your boundaries. I'm proud of him for being honest with you.

I'm proud of everybody in this situation. And yuck, it still hurts at the end. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that

you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, it is a heavy show. It's heavy, right? Man. It's one of my favorite songs ever. And by favorite, I mean,

I've never even heard of this person ever. I've never heard this song in my life, but I'm going with it. It's one of my favorites And it's by The Great Marshmello And Demi Lovato And the song I hope those people are cool

The song is called I'm Okay not to be okay And it goes like this Feeling like a drop in the ocean But don't nobody notice Maybe it's all just in your head Feeling like you're trapped in your own skin and now your body's frozen, broken down.

You've got nothing left. When you're high on emotion and you're losing your focus and you feel too exhausted to pray, don't get lost in the moment or give up when you're closest. All you need is somebody to say, it's okay not to be okay. When you're down and you feel ashamed, it's okay not to be okay.

All right, I take that back. That's a good tune, man. Well done, everybody. Hey, we'll see you soon on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Coming up on the next episode. He had an affair about 10 years ago, and I told him if he ever cheated on me again, I would leave him for good. And recently, he got fired for sexual harassment at his job. Can I ever trust him again?

Forgiveness is for you. It's not for him. Forgiveness is you holding this brick that he placed in your hands, a brick of infidelity, a brick of lack of trust, a brick of dishonesty. And forgiveness is you setting that down and saying, I'm not carrying your stuff anymore. Okay, so I got married in November. This is my second marriage.

Okay. Congrats. We don't live together. Why don't y'all live together? Because the housing market is still high here. We're just kind of sitting and waiting. I guess y'all get together for weekend hookups or whatever, but this isn't a marriage.