The Dr. John Delony Show - How Do I Learn To Be Vulnerable With My Family?

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A woman struggling to give her husband and kids the words of affirmation they need - A wife frustrated by her husband’s hot take on women who dress sexy - A mothe...r unsure if she should let her teenage son move in with his dad Lyrics of the Day: "I'm Too Sexy" - Right Said Fred  Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. He says that when women dress real sexy and provocative, that they're pretty much asking for attention from men. I don't even know really how to handle that. And when he mentions it around the girls, because if something were to happen to one of them, I don't want them to ever think it would be because they dressed a certain way. This isn't sitting well with you.
Starting point is 00:00:22 There's something else going on here. What is it? It's that time again. It's John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, and I'm so glad that you are with us. It's the most important podcast on the planet. Possible overstatement, but barely, barely overstating how important this show is. It's the greatest mental health and marriage podcast ever. I'm so glad that you've joined us. And if you are new to the show, clearly, I'm joking. We are figuring this out as we go. So grateful that you're with us. If you want to be on the show, go to johndeloney.com slash ask A-S-K or give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 leave a message and jenna or kelly will give you a buzz
Starting point is 00:01:10 and call you back and i've been out of town for a few for a few weeks but for a while and it feels good to be home a little bit good sometimes that hotel life is dope. All right, let's go to, let's see here. Let's try Jen in Michigan. Dude, they rhyme. That's pretty cool. What's up, Jen? And from Michigan. Hi, how are you?
Starting point is 00:01:35 Dancing like I've never danced before, ever. We'd be dancing in the snow here, so. Oh, gross. Is it cold? It's gross, yeah. It's sun, there's sun today it cold it's gross yeah it's fun there's fun today so it's okay that's how you know you're living right when you're like it's miserable but there's sun so we're good yeah yeah gotta look for the positive there you don't have to but it's it helps all right so what's up jen how can i help um so my question is how do i learn
Starting point is 00:02:07 how to give more affirmation without feeling fake um so well well a little backstory my husband and i were your favorites for high school sweethearts oh did y'all watch dawson's creek i don't want to wait no no okay well good for you i always wanted to have a high school sweetheart it just didn't I'll watch Dawson's Creek. I don't want to wait. No? No. Okay. Well, good for you. I always wanted to have a high school sweetheart. It just didn't work out for me. Okay. So good for you.
Starting point is 00:02:30 So yeah. So we've been together for 25 years. We'll be married for 18 this year. We have four kids. They're 10, 12, 14, and 16. We also have a bonus student right now. She's our exchange student from Italy. So we have a very full house. My husband, he's one of the most energetic, positive people. His love language
Starting point is 00:02:57 is definitely affirmation and mine is not. So his being affirmation, he's very good at giving affirmation and mine is acts of service. So I'm not so good at giving it. But two of the four kids that we have got the affirmation love language and it is very hard for me to give them the affirmation. I will be able to say it in my head. I'll tell them that I'm proud of them in my head or that they did a good job. But when I try to actually get it out, there's like a disconnect for some reason. I just can't say it without feeling like they're going to think I'm fake or like it doesn't mean anything. I don't know.
Starting point is 00:03:46 Why does your body react negatively to praise? I don't know. I want to challenge your language a little bit. Okay. You've got to stop talking in terms of i can't or i feel okay all four of your kids are in desperate like oxygen need of affirmation whether you think you've identified two that need it and two that don't all four of your kids and your husband. And contrary to what some dumb internet survey might've told you, you need it too.
Starting point is 00:04:29 But something about giving it and receiving it makes your body feel awkward or weird. Where does that come from? Um, I don't know. Does it definitely makes me cringe though. Once I'm going to give me affirmation. Why don't you think when somebody gives me affirmation why don't you think you're worthy of affirmation
Starting point is 00:04:49 are you too and I'm just going to run through some stuff do you think you're too good for it do you like yeah I know I'm incredible did your parents do such a great job pumping you up that when you hear it you're like duh I know that. I'm the best in this room.
Starting point is 00:05:07 Or is it the opposite? What is it about affirmation? It is the opposite, for sure. Okay. What do you feel like you're going to lose when your 12-year-old comes bebopping in and worked her butt off or his butt off on something and did a good job? And maybe not even a great job, but a good job. What do you think you're going to lose?
Starting point is 00:05:28 What's the net loss by saying, hey, come here for a minute and grabbing them on both sides of the face and saying, I saw how hard you worked on this. Incredible. I'm so proud of you. Every day I thank God that I get to be your mom. It's awesome. Now get out of here like when you when you hear me run through that what do you feel like you're gonna lose by doing that
Starting point is 00:05:53 um i i like i don't want to say it but i think it's control of what i think that of them i don't know treating me like mom instead of a friend, maybe. If that makes sense. I don't know if that makes sense. Tell me more. I think it does, but tell me more. Like, let me go to an example. So I coach volleyball and I have a practice plan out and
Starting point is 00:06:28 whenever the girls will, you know, be like, what can we do this? If it wasn't in my plan or wasn't my idea, it makes me feel like not disrespected, but one of those where it's just like, like I've lost control of, I'm no longer the authority. maybe. I don't like that word either, but. But that's what, you are using authority and positional power. And what I think is one of the most disregarded and overused at the same time words of our current ethos, which is, I just want to be me, is authenticity.
Starting point is 00:07:03 You're using those as ways to keep people at arm's length from you. What do you think is going to happen if you connect with somebody? Did somebody leave you when you were a kid? No. Did somebody hurt you when you were a kid that was close to you? Nope. What do you think you're going to lose? Because you're hedging your bets against something.
Starting point is 00:07:27 I really don't know. Okay. I need you to hear me like super clear. You're a great mom and I can tell you love your kids and I can tell there's something stuck between you and that relationship. And I'm saying this with all due respect and love and care, but those kids are starving for it. And your husband is too. And I promise you, you are as well. And hiding behind, it just has to be my way. It just has to be the highway. There is something about being a coach. And there is something about being a parent and having appropriate,
Starting point is 00:08:01 like you're not my friend, but connectivity, let me put it this way. All the research says is the more connected a parent is as the children are younger, the more autonomous and the more risk-seeking they are as adults. It's counterintuitive. The more we want our kids to grow up and be really strong and adventurous and just go to the college or skip college and go open the business, whatever. We have to over connect with them. And so I'm just going to tell you this as lovely as I can, you're going to have to get over it and you're going to have to decide I've got
Starting point is 00:08:38 to practice and do these things. And when it feels awkward, feel the awkward and do it anyway. And your kids are probably gonna be like, what happened to you? And it may be that you have to, I know a couple who struggles with talking to each other. He's really annoying and she finds him annoying, but she loves talking, but it just kind of comes up. So they've just both taken to writing down notes in their phone. And they call them talk topics that they can just talk about when they get together And it's kind of like when you first have your first or second kid and you guys start putting sex on the calendar
Starting point is 00:09:11 And it doesn't feel as sexy as romantic, but it's either not going to happen or we're going to put on the calendar It's very similar and I would start making a list every day on a note card or in your app on your phone that just says I will Pull each kid aside and have skin to skin contact. And I'll look them in the eye and tell them something wonderful about them. And you're not making them weak and you're not making them cowardly. And more importantly, you're not diminishing your relational authority. You're their mom. They already know that. How does that sound? It sounds good. I have thought that I do need to write more notes because I can write it down.
Starting point is 00:09:50 Like I said, I just can't get it out. Like I say it in my head, I just can't get it out. Did anybody ever tell you you were good growing up? I mean, yeah, my parents, they were good. I know my parents aren't overly affectionate. They weren't when we were younger. So I don't know if that's just something that I take it from that where, you know. I think there's something else.
Starting point is 00:10:21 And again, here's where it's cool. It doesn't matter. You have to fix this. You got to get this one right. Because I promise you, because the fact that you're asking the question tells me you feel that gap too, right? Yeah. What about your husband? Has he ever said things like he misses you or where are you?
Starting point is 00:10:45 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, I said, he's very good at giving affirmation and I feel like he kind of filled in for me with the kids. Yeah. Don't let that's I'm throwing a flag on that one.
Starting point is 00:11:00 And sometimes the inability to praise is the exact same pathology as over praise. Yeah. And he may be reaching for stars to try to get something he's not getting in his own home. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah. I would love, love, love, love you to sit down tonight and write out, here are some things that I think are wonderful about my kids and make a plan to start telling them.
Starting point is 00:11:28 Even if you wouldn't make a public announcement at dinner tonight that said, I'm going to begin practicing. I love each of you so much. And it's so crazy how wild I am about you guys and how proud I am of you all that I'm going to begin making sure you all know it. And it's going to be weird because this isn't anything mom has ever done before, but it's going to be new. And you're just going to have to get over it because I'm going to tell you every day how much I love you. I'm going to tell you every day how much, how proud I am of you. I'm going to tell you every day that I saw, I caught you doing something right. And I'm going to let you know about it. And this is you just practicing. And then you look at your husband dead in the eye and say,
Starting point is 00:12:05 I realize that under the guise of this isn't my love language or whatever bull crap that is, I have not given you the affirmation that you need. And I'm sorry. And I tell you this, here's what, Jen, this is important. When my marriage was on the brink, like hanging on by dental floss, barely, I remember how embarrassed I was to tell my wife,
Starting point is 00:12:27 I just want you to tell me that you're proud of me. I worked so hard for you, for this house. And I'm ashamed to say that that would give me, that would be like water in the desert, but we tell me I'm proud. And she told her, her response was, man, that would have been awesome to know 20 years ago. I didn't know you needed that. I do, I do. So make a commitment to him. I'm going to say one nice thing in the morning. I'm going to say one nice thing in the afternoon.
Starting point is 00:12:54 I'm going to ask him one question about his day in the morning, one question in the afternoon. And it's also fair to say, hey, husband, I need this too. Here's what I need. But you got to do it no matter what and how uncomfortable it is. You got to practice. You got to practice.
Starting point is 00:13:09 You got to practice. This is something you got to get right. Our kids need us. Your kids need you. Thank you so much for the call, Jen. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes.
Starting point is 00:13:23 And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks I want you to consider talking with a therapist
Starting point is 00:13:56 Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself Where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.
Starting point is 00:14:48 All right, we're back. And Jen is on hold. She's still in the line, so she can hear this. Kelly, you were just telling me something during the break. Yeah, so I understand Jen because I am Jen. Yes. And I, growing up, great parents, they loved me very much. And there wasn't a lot of words of affirmation.
Starting point is 00:15:08 It was just, this is what you're expected to do. You did it. Great. You succeeded in this. Now succeed in the next thing. Um, we'll, we'll let you know if you're not doing it right kind of thing. And, um, so that wasn't modeled well. So if you made A's, duh, you're supposed to.
Starting point is 00:15:25 Exactly. That's the job. If you don't, that's where the problem comes in. Or yeah, you made this dance team in my case, or you were student counselor or whatever. Those things were expected. And lots of love, just not a lot of, hey, we're really proud of you. And I can tell you, once I heard my dad say it, once I heard my mom say it, I could tell you where I was, what room I was in because it was so out of the ordinary. And it was so needed.
Starting point is 00:15:51 Oh, it was just – I just – I mean I'm's still something I have to work on of my, my norms. My default is great. You did it. You want a cookie? Great. I can't give you a sticker every time you do something instead of, and we had to do it last night telling the kids, God, you know, y'all both handled the, cause you know, we're still in a rental house and everything. Y'all handled this really well and praising kids for praising them for when they do things. And my husband included, it's something I have to, I have to make sure I give hugs in the morning, make sure I, you know, I say, you know, something here. It's still a checklist for me because it's not my norm. So I understand that, but I've had to make it a habit.
Starting point is 00:16:39 Has to become part of the, yeah. And now I was just texting with my son because somebody put something in his phone that I didn't find appropriate. And now I was just texting with my son because somebody put something on his phone that I didn't find appropriate. And he texted me this morning. Hey, mom, I just want you to know I changed that and deleted it. I was like, I'm really proud of you for making that decision because I was going to make it for him this evening. And I'm proud of you for making that decision. So what about vulnerability feels like a loss of control? Vulnerability, my least favorite word. Because it just is a loss of control. That's so important. That's exactly
Starting point is 00:17:08 what it is. It is. It is taking control of I am going to open the door a little bit and you could kick this door into my face. Right. I might as well just take my heart out, lay it on the ground and let you just stomp all over it. Yes. Same thing to me.
Starting point is 00:17:24 And so I get where she's coming from because that is hard because I am not, I am a control freak. I like control of everything. Tell me more. No, Kelly. Vulnerability is hard for me. Absolutely. And I've had to learn it through counseling because my parents depended on it. That's right.
Starting point is 00:17:40 And my parenting. And so I've had to learn it. So it is a skill. It is something you have to learn to do if it was not modeled for you and there's no shame in it. And it's fantastic when you learn it. I think that's the important side, important thing on the other side of it is the unfortunate thing about relationships is the only way they work is when there's vulnerability. When somebody tells the truth.
Starting point is 00:18:06 Holding back secrets, whether they're bad secrets, and we often think, when we think secrets, like it's bad. Sometimes the secret is, God, I'm so proud of you, right? Or my daughter walks in and I'm like,
Starting point is 00:18:15 she's so beautiful and she gets so mad at me when I tell her that she's beautiful. Oh, dad. Like, right? And if I don't tell her the good stuff too, I'm keeping secrets from him right and so the only way it works is vulnerability and i hate that i wish there was another way i trust
Starting point is 00:18:31 me i wish there's another way they're just not they're just not and not vulnerability and weakness vulnerability and you could hurt me you just said it right there to me vulnerability has always been weakness yes and that is my biggest fear is to be perceived as weak gotcha and so but learning that of hey I need to tell my husband what I need or why this hurt me or blah blah blah blah blah
Starting point is 00:18:50 and then you do it and you're like well I'll be darned if that didn't work that felt that felt that really yeah
Starting point is 00:18:54 and then he can go oh cool I'll never do that again exactly let's go to dinner and you're like oh that's you're like wait wait what
Starting point is 00:19:00 a problem solved yeah yeah but it is a skill you have to learn and it is something you have to practice it's a list you have to check yeah you know You know, it's a list and you go,
Starting point is 00:19:07 yes, I did that. I did that. And then, then it becomes a normal part of your habit. So something that I think Jen could practice, she talked about being a volleyball coach. It may be that she schedules out practice like she loves to do and then schedules five minutes for, at the end, for them to choose. Yeah. You want to do this drill, this drill, or do you want to do a quick pickup game? Right. They get to pick. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:19:28 And then it gives them a little bit of, yeah, she's listening to us. And it lets her retain control, right? It's almost that illusion of they're getting a choice. Oh, exactly. My wife does it to me all the time. Oh, yeah.
Starting point is 00:19:36 Do you want tacos or burgers? And I'm like, that's what I'm talking about. It's my house. We're eating burgers. Is she, yeah, exactly. And the whole time she knew exactly what was happening. Yeah, exactly. So thank you for sharing that that's that's that's importante um all right
Starting point is 00:19:50 let's go to mary in indianapolis what's up mary hi doctor what's up hey so okay so my question it's even really a hard one to ask bring it on stupid for asking it but hey have you listened to this show before quite a bit you are all good man you're in good there is no weird questions on this show or hard questions what's up well okay so my husband and i we have nine kids together six are mine three are his nine nine all right nine kids Yeah. And five of them are girls. Okay. And he is a military veteran and he's real strong in his beliefs and things. But he says that when women dress real sexy and provocative,
Starting point is 00:20:37 that they're pretty much asking for attention from men and things like that. Okay. And I just, I don't even know really how to like that. Okay. And I just, I don't even know really how to handle that. And when he mentions it around the girls, because if something were to happen to one of them, I don't want them to ever think it would be because of, you know,
Starting point is 00:20:53 whatever, anything that they did or because they dressed a certain way or, you know. Yes. Let's take them off for us off the table for a second. This isn't sitting well with you. Tell me why there's something else going on here. What is it? Well, for one, because I don't believe that. Okay. Tell me more. And two of the girls actually had an instance with an uncle where they were
Starting point is 00:21:17 touched inappropriately. Okay. And I guess that's where it hits home at. And you... And for a while, and he was best friends with that uncle. And so is he blaming these girls? No, but at the same time, he refuses to call him a pedophile, which I fully believe. He's not allowed to be around anyone in the family at all anymore because I made a huge deal out of it. Filed a police report, told everybody in the family, everybody knew that I had little girls. And there was some, like, we had a graduation party because the girls are older now, of course. We had a graduation party
Starting point is 00:21:52 and he allowed them to be at the graduation party. And, yeah. I don't know. I just feel like the kids shouldn't even have to even see him and be in the same room with him. But then also, I don't want the girls to think it's their fault. Why isn't he in jail? Because the police said that it was just grooming, and there was no evidence of anything.
Starting point is 00:22:15 It was just his word against their word. Grooming is a crime, too. Why isn't he in jail? That's what the detective told us. Because they sent out a Crimes Against Children's Unit detective to the house, and that's what they told us because they sent out a Crimes Against Children Unit detective to the house and that's what they told us. Even though CPS has even been involved because he's done things
Starting point is 00:22:28 with his, he got accused of doing things, should I say, with his daughter's friends. Are these daughters all your biological kids or are they both?
Starting point is 00:22:39 No, they're my biological kids. They're older now. It happened when they were a lot younger. I didn't even find out about until way later. Okay. I would not have these kids around that man. I would not have these kids around your husband right now. That's just me. Not even around my husband? Well, he's got absolutely no regard for their safety or care.
Starting point is 00:23:00 Yeah. At first, I don't think he even believed it, but there's just been too many allegations. And then since I made a big deal about it and didn't keep it a secret, other people started coming up because apparently a lot of people were keeping things a secret. They always do. It takes one person with courage and bravery. But the greatest gift you can give your kids when they tell you something like that is to believe them. Oh, I do 100%. That's why I made a big deal out of it and actually involved the police. But they got a dad that doesn't.
Starting point is 00:23:26 Yeah. And then they've got a dad. And here's why I'm digging into this. Yes. It's being dishonest to say, no, dude, I'm just dressing good and sexy and attractive, whatever, because it just makes me feel good. That is true. It does make me feel good. But I just want people to notice I look nice. I want people to think I'm good looking, that I'm handsome.
Starting point is 00:23:56 And I'm not beyond that. That's fine. And so whether you're 14 or whether you're 40 or whether you're 55 or whatever, I think there's some truth to that and i don't care about what anyone has to say if somebody an adult sexually assaults a child i don't care what that kid was wearing i don't care what that kid was saying kid and if there is any sort of um suggestion that the kids have has a role to play in an adult um abuse situation i i can't i'm on i am out before the i'll be out of that situation so fast yeah he's not referring to the kids.
Starting point is 00:24:49 He's referring to just women in general because we were watching the show, and this guy was basically harassing this woman textually, and then the guy was like, well, you wore a shirt where I can basically see through it and see your nipples. And then Greg was like, well, yeah, that's true. She wanted that attention from him, or why else would she want it? You know, that type of thing yeah that men are hardwired for that type of thing and that women shouldn't even be allowed to wear certain things here's the problem is there's some truth in all of it if i wear a see-through shirt i want someone to say something. And that gives nobody license to sexually assault me or to harass me. And if I walk into a room and someone's wearing a see-through shirt,
Starting point is 00:25:30 it's up to me to turn around and leave out of honor of my wife, out of respect for my daughter, out of respect for all. So it's all of it all wound up together. And so to say the way to solve this problem i i love how it has been um women need to be more modest and the response has been over the last decade or so or men could rape less right men could sexually assault less it's it's both and it's both in that Yeah, it's true. And so I think your husband is using this as something. There's something else here that you're not telling me, Mary. And I don't know what it is.
Starting point is 00:26:11 And if you don't want to tell me, that's fine. But there's something else that's not right. No, I mean, that's it. It just makes me flop the handle, I think. And I feel like I'm being irrational because it just makes me so mad when someone says something like that. Have you told him that, that I think you're wrong? Yeah. And then he gets, just gets real defensive and I probably come at him wrong
Starting point is 00:26:32 because I get defensive because, like I said, it just brings back all that with the girls. Okay. I recommend having a non-defensive conversation about it. Okay. Of, you've heard me say this a million times and it gets cliche after a while, but to go grab some lunch or go grab breakfast and say, hey, I'm Okay. shirt yes they want people to look at them and see that they're attractive fair that's fair and um telling my teenage daughters that they are responsible for the actions of adults in their
Starting point is 00:27:18 life that's just not right so when he says this this is what they're actually hearing and if he cares about them and loves them he's going to be careful about his language. And I think it's fair for them to understand, hey, as a guy, when you wear this, this is the story that I'm telling myself. This is the story culture has told me about you. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I'm just letting you know. I'm your dad. That's fair for me.
Starting point is 00:27:42 You see what I'm saying? Yeah. And he sounds like a guy that's going to get all mad and blow you off. And at the end of the day, you have to choose, do I want me and my daughters
Starting point is 00:27:53 around this or not? Yeah, he does a lot of times get real defensive and angry at first and he'll take a day or two and calm down and then he'll come back after he thinks about it for a while. And that may be
Starting point is 00:28:06 because you you hear it and you hear it and you hear it and then you blow up and he blows up and now we're not even talking about the thing now we're talking about who's right and who's wrong who's got power in this relationship and that no problems get solved there I think circling back to
Starting point is 00:28:21 hey I want to have a hard conversation with you and I want to take you to breakfast and let's sit down and have this discussion. And it's going to be uncomfortable for both of us. I love you. I'm not going anywhere. But we need to have this talk. Here's why this is important to me. And then have it that way. I think that's a much better avenue to have that talk.
Starting point is 00:28:47 Does that make sense? Does that feel good? Yeah. Yeah, it does because it usually ends up in big blow-ups. Yeah, and tell them, I have no interest in fighting with you. I've got no interest in blow-ups. I have interest in letting you know,
Starting point is 00:28:58 here's how this is hitting me. Here's how I'm afraid this is hitting the girls. And you as mom, you've got a responsibility to check in with modesty and with discernment and responsibility and love. And here's the you that you're presenting to the world with your daughters. Your dad has a role. I mean, your dad, your husband has a role to play in that also. But y'all got to be on the same page with this conversation.
Starting point is 00:29:22 And any side of this conversation that gets out of whack and gets accusing, you can do whatever you want and there's no, or anybody can do, man, now you just got to mess. Now you got to mess. You got to mess. I think the place to start here is two adults having a hard conversation together. And he is correct.
Starting point is 00:29:43 When somebody walks into a bar, right, wrong, or indifferent, there's a story, a cultural story that's told. That's true. And there is no license, ever, for unwanted sexual advances,
Starting point is 00:30:01 for sexual assault, for child abuse, for molestation, any of that stuff. Ever. Ever. And anybody that tells you otherwise, get away from them as far as you can. It's a messy one, Mary. Thank you for the call. We'll be right back. All right, we are back. And man, we sparked it up with that last call okay we've been talking for a long time off air all right what were you saying kelly well i mean there is a
Starting point is 00:30:31 okay just if we're just if you're just tuning back in this is a woman has had four biological daughters i think or five daughters um she got, she's remarried, had nine kids, and several of them were sexually abused by her new husband's brother. New husband, then fast forward several years later, continues to let the abuser around, whatever, and is really loud and demonstrative about women who dress a certain
Starting point is 00:31:06 way are just asking for it and they are putting the vibe out because they want to be looked at and they want to be whatever and so this guy on the show they were watching was being gropey and gross and he was like well look what she's wearing and i think i think we said it earlier like both things can be true at the same time. Right. And then Kelly. Okay. So I got everybody caught up,
Starting point is 00:31:30 but I was raised in that very much of a, what you wear, then you put yourself in a bad position because men are just incapable. They can't control. So fricking stupid. Yeah. Because if you wear that, whatever it is, um, like I remember having to leave for the water park in a one-piece and then changing into my bikini when I got there.
Starting point is 00:31:50 Sorry, Mom and Dad. And because, you know, well, you shouldn't wear that because then, yeah, you're the one putting yourself in a bad situation at a water park that, you know, because they can't control themselves. It's a weird line between, yes, you should be able to wear what you want, makes you feel comfortable. But there is also a responsibility for you know what you're putting out in the world. And we were talking just a minute ago off air. There is a difference between sexiness for a 14-year-old, which is, I'm going to show everything,
Starting point is 00:32:24 and sexiness that in your 20s and 30s and 40s is a, it's a way of being. It's an essence. It's a way I enter a room. It's my sense of humor. It's the way I gently rest my hand on your arm. It's not just everything I can show you. Right. And what I think that's also the same with men. When you're younger, you want to see all of it as much as possible. But then you learn that sexiness is confidence and there's something there's more to it it's it's deeper not just all of it at the same time yeah yeah but i mean i know you know as a you know young as a teen back then to me yeah you wanted to the short dress the tight dress the whatever because that's your idea of what i want i want that positive attention
Starting point is 00:33:02 i want to be seen right and. And, and you know what you're doing too. You know, the whole, you know, you're full, fully aware of what you're doing and the looks you're getting. And even at that age, we know. Yeah. Yeah. I, I've always just been a skinny gangly dude. I never, I never got those looks. I never walked into a room in the room. Gasp. I put, maybe I should wear tighter clothes, I guess. No, probably not. It's different for men and women. That's fair. That's fair. What is sexy on a woman, totally different on a man. Like a man in a three, like a good three-piece suit, mercy. It's almost like more clothes. The more clothes I wear, the better I look. That does wonders for my self-esteem. Thank you for that, Kelly.
Starting point is 00:33:46 And that broke my heart. All right, let's go to Sarah in Philadelphia. What's up, Sarah? How are we doing? You know, living the dream. How are you? I am trying my best to not get my show canceled, but Kelly's intent on us not having a show anymore.
Starting point is 00:34:00 So what's up? So I have a question for you. My 14-year-old son has expressed an interest and a desire to possibly move in with his father. And I don't think it's a good idea. And of course, I don't want him to go. But I don't know what to do. Is this something he has to do? Is this something I can stop because I don't think it's what's best for him?
Starting point is 00:34:24 I don't know where to go. Number one, I hate that. I'm sorry for all of you. Good grief. What a mess. It's been a mess for a long time. He's the oldest, so I have five kids. And he remembers, I mean, he doesn't accurately remember what it was like when his father and I were together. He thinks it was this beautiful fantasy land where everything was perfect and his dad was always there and always taking care of him. And I think he just wants that. But that was never true. Yeah, of course. And he's filled in the gaps with movies and TV shows and conversations with his buddies. And he has created a caricature of the man who was in his life
Starting point is 00:35:06 before his mom screwed everything up and left. And here we are, right? Exactly. Sheesh. Tell me about dad. So I'm going to tell you that he's not a bad dad, but he's also not a good dad. He's like in the middle somewhere.
Starting point is 00:35:26 That's hard for me to imagine. So give me some context. Okay. So like when they go to his house, he lives two hours away, so he's not in town. So when they go to his house every other weekend, so it's 26 weekends a year, when they go to his house, they sometimes go on hikes. They play a lot of video games. They kind of sit around a lot and play video games. But he does take them for a bike ride or for a hike normally once during the weekend. And he does reschedule at least five or six of those weekends a year. So it's kind of like, you know, I don't have safety concerns for them when they're at their dad's house. I mean,
Starting point is 00:36:08 when they were younger, I did, but now that they're all older, I don't. Um, but, but you know, the difference,
Starting point is 00:36:15 you know, the reality there he would move into. Yeah. And like, we're, you know, I, I'm remarried.
Starting point is 00:36:22 I have a husband who I adore and my husband's been in my kids' lives for, I mean, we've been married now for seven years. So, like we show up, we coach, we're on the sidelines, we're cheering for them. school meetings i volunteer i you know i do all these things to be part of their lives and to try and make sure that you know they have the sports they want to play and stuff like that and like he does not do that he has never done that and so but hold on hold on there's some more to it than that you have to understand this is not a son making a statement about his mom yeah this is not a son making a statement about his stepdad. This is a son wondering what the hell was so wrong with me that my dad left. And he will spend the rest of his life
Starting point is 00:37:15 trying to solve that problem. Even if it means going from stability and love and connectivity to chaos. Yeah. He has to figure out what he did wrong. And it's a hard, this is one of those back-end things why divorce is so tough,
Starting point is 00:37:36 even when it's 100% necessary, is these little ones in the middle are left wondering what they did to contribute. And there's no amount of telling them nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, especially when the something is a larger than life figure,
Starting point is 00:37:53 23 or 22 times a year. Yeah. And does all the cool things that mom doesn't let us do. Well, and when he comes, so his currently, when my oldest son goes for weekends and we do like my other two sons with my ex-husband they don't seem to have i mean they're not as favored as my oldest son by my ex-husband like my ex-husband took just my oldest son
Starting point is 00:38:21 on vacation last year and did not take the other two. So it's very clear that they're not as favored as he is. But when he comes home from his dad from the weekend, it's like three days of him hating me. Of course. The reentry is, it's, it's, yes,
Starting point is 00:38:41 absolutely. And he says stuff like, now I'm always someone like, I, I never bad mouthed my ex. Yes, absolutely. And maybe even made the kids feel like, you know, if I'm upset, I shouldn't be upset because mom says that dad loves me and stuff like that. Sure. But apparently, I just found out recently, he's been badmouthing me quite a bit. Sure. And telling the kids that, like, I took them away from him. Sure.
Starting point is 00:39:21 And all this kind of stuff. And I was having a conversation with him with an earshot of my kids. And he started accusing me of cheating on him, which wasn't true. And all these other things. And I'm like, I'm not going to speak to you about this right now. And he was at my house. And I was like, you need to leave my house right now. But it's just like, I don't know what to do because I feel like if he, he moves down there, is he just going to hate me?
Starting point is 00:39:47 Like he going to believe all these things because I, you know, never really discussed this stuff with him. So he doesn't know any other side of the story. Right. Here's what I I'm just, I'm fast forwarding because this is a complex issue and it's not one that I can just say, yeah, you need to do this or do this. My gut tells me he needs to stay with you guys. And my gut tells me that that's going to come at an extreme relational cost.
Starting point is 00:40:15 Or to put it more directly, there's no way to win here. And so we're going to do the right thing even when it's hard. Like, you see what I'm saying? So if I were you, I would tell him I'm willing to consider this, but we are going to go, you and him are going to go see a counselor together for a minimum of two months, three months, whatever. okay and in this conversation the counselor can help guide the conversation about living arrangements why he wants to move maybe then slowly and gently and appropriately introduce here's the reality of dad sometimes the counselor can ask questions that appear to put you on the spot that you have to answer um but that makes the counselor the to the bad guy if you will and not mom not mom just sitting down at breakfast loving grenades about dad but mom asking truthful questions about like yeah dad was abusive um i had to leave for my own safety or i had i was trying to keep you guys safe and all of those are going
Starting point is 00:41:25 to be damaging to him because and you probably heard me say this he knows innately half of him is that guy and half of him is you and he has to make that other half right even if that means glossing over glaring issues like abuse not showing up rescheduling forgetting all you just play video games while i'm doing some stuff outside like he's going to gloss over all of it because he has to make it right because that's part of him and if he's not good then i'm not good okay and it's so messy so messy that's why i it makes me so sick that he would talk bad about you. Well, and that's,
Starting point is 00:42:07 I had divorced parents. So when I had, like when I split up from my ex husband, one of the things we talked about was I was like, we can never bad mouth each other because you have to remember that half of our kids are each other. And it makes them feel like that half of themselves is wrong or bad or horrible.
Starting point is 00:42:25 Exactly. And like, that's a horrible, horrible feeling to cross like that. of themselves is wrong or bad or horrible. Exactly. And, like, that's a horrible, horrible feeling to cross like that. I was like, I don't, like, they can't have that. And now, like, and I don't think he sits my son down and says, like, here's a laundry list of things that are horrible about your mother. He just makes, like, little comments. And he makes significantly more money than i do and his household makes like probably three times as much so when they go down there
Starting point is 00:42:51 it's like we can go out to dinner and we can and it just all adds up into this this perfect storm of like my oldest son just eating our house and being here yeah and he's just and it's chaotic too there's five kids two of which are you know someone else's day like the whole thing and then yeah you dangle this um daddy warbucks situation in front of him the whole thing's just a mess and on top of it i actually think if he sat your son down and was like your mom's the worst your son would have some defense mechanisms like well hey that's partly me too and he would think through it and be like well mom hugs me that's i mean 14 year olds are pretty
Starting point is 00:43:32 sharp i think the more insidious ones are they're driving and he just puts his hand on your son's head and tussles his hair and says wouldn't it be awesome if we could do this all the time yeah wouldn't it be cool if your mom would like let us do this all the time? Yeah. Wouldn't it be cool if your mom would let us do this all the time? But she went to court and said, I can never see you. And that's why we can't do this all the time. That is the stuff that is insidious because there's no comeback for that. Yeah. And I hate that that's happening to you.
Starting point is 00:44:00 I'm sorry. The hardest part for you is going to be not taking this personal it's a four a 14 year old trying to find out what he did that was so bad and trying to figure out why half of him is so chose to leave yeah and i'm trying to like not take it oh i know dude i'm asking you like if it was me i would man i would be taking all this personally and you hear me say all the time like your kids can't make you feel anything. No, I'd feel terrible. I would choose to feel terrible, right?
Starting point is 00:44:28 It's the worst. It's the worst. I'm asking you to do the impossible. I know. But that's why I think bringing a counselor in and be prepared. The counselor may say, I think the best thing is to spend a year there. And you and your new husband, you'll have that conversation. Would we allow this?
Starting point is 00:44:44 What would it look like? What are the rules? What are the guidelines? What does the court say about it? You may get there. And I don't know enough about your son. I don't know enough about your divorce decree. And I don't know enough about
Starting point is 00:44:55 what the long-term ramifications would, that would be for him individually and your family unit for him to go away for a year and try it out. I've heard of it happening and I've never heard of it going well. Like dad's true colors show themselves eventually. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:45:15 Originally, my son was talking about trying it out over the summer for like one or two months. And here's the thing. I've actually offered to my ex-husband like, you know, would you like to have the kids for like a month during the summer, solid month or like six weeks or something like that so that you can like really spend time with them. And I always try and give him extra time whenever there is, you know, time because I know that the kids like being down there. Now we have behavior problems with my younger son with him because when he comes back, he's played video games all weekend and he can't control himself at school.
Starting point is 00:45:48 Of course. But he's never been interested in taking me up on this. And all of a sudden he's interested. And I think it's because just recently he changed our support agreement and he no longer is able to claim my oldest son on his taxes. And it just cost him like $4,000 on his taxes. Yeah, if he's doing well financially, he wouldn't do something this dramatic for $4,000. Well, he's not very good with his money. I mean, you'd have to be really bad with mathematics to think a $4,000 tax write-off versus living every day with a 15-year-old is going to save you money.
Starting point is 00:46:37 I agree. I know how expensive my kids are. It's ridiculous. Yes. And he's just now getting into driver's education and driving and dating and like he's but things about to get real expensive if he thinks he also likes to tell me all the time that the kids shouldn't do their extracurricular like they're too expensive you need to stop letting them do that and you need to stop spending on that and that and i'm always like of course no and that's why i say maybe with the support of a therapist,
Starting point is 00:47:05 some of those conversations are going to come out. And maybe you nailed it. Maybe just trying in the month of July to see what it's like. Because here's what I'm thinking off the top of my head. A lot of the data suggests that when a husband and a wife split up and she takes the kids, her income, her net worth goes down his accelerates exponentially and generally it's because he can take as many shifts as he want he can work overtime he can go get another degree if he wants he's not trying to tread water and so it's not uncommon for there
Starting point is 00:47:40 to be a ton of money that just ends up in this trajectory because he's got no anchor point, right? He can do what he wants. And then once a week, I mean, once a month, he gets a free-for-all and then to go ride go-karts and play video games and eat Lucky Charms for every meal. And then he can just return back to his real life when you and your family unit have to absorb the fallout from all of that. All that to say, I think it would be best to sit
Starting point is 00:48:07 down with somebody, a professional and say, and tell your son, I'm willing to have the conversation, but there's a lot of the story that you don't know. And I believe with all of my heart that the respectful kind thing to do is to always talk good about your dad. And so I've done that. And we're going to have to, if you have to, if you want me to entertain this, then you're going to have to go with me for a period of time with a counselor. And we're going to have some direct open conversations. And about you, about your thoughts, about your ideas, about safety, about my concerns. And then we'll go from there.
Starting point is 00:48:39 Off the top of my head, I don't like it. It feels like a 15-year-old is going to get dropped off in Neverland and who knows what happens next. But I'm not an expert here. And so I want to concede this one to somebody who's going to have a real good insight above you and your family. At the end of the day, I promise you he'll come back. I promise you. You're playing a long game with him. And so six months, a year, two years, he's going to come back. I promise you. You're playing a long game with him. And so six months, a year, two years, he's going to come back and he's going to one day see,
Starting point is 00:49:13 man, that woman never gave up on me. She loved me and loved me and tried and tried and kept showing up and kept showing up and kept showing up. Hang in there, Sarah. He's lucky to have you. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily
Starting point is 00:49:39 choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back. Please don't forget to hit the subscribe button to, if you're on watching this on or listening to this on Apple or Spotify, please hit the subscribe button. If you're watching this on YouTube, please hit the subscribe button. And don't forget those five-star reviews. If you got three-star reviews, just email them to Kelly, and she'll probably read them to you because she loves that
Starting point is 00:50:17 when people write in mean things and she gets to tell me about them. Makes her heart feel good. If she had one, right? Just kidding. She does. All right. If she had one, right? Just kidding. She does. All right. Today's song of the day. This is the song that Joe, who's running the board, he is always, always singing this song.
Starting point is 00:50:36 Makes everybody uncomfortable. His HR file is something to behold. But it's from his favorite artist, the great Right Said Fred. And the song is I'm Too Sexy and I'll give it a dramatic reading I'm too sexy for my love love's going to leave me I'm too sexy for my shirt
Starting point is 00:51:00 so sexy it hurts I'm too sexy for Milan New York and Japan didn't rhyme red I'm too sexy for your party no way I'm disco dancing I'm a model you know what I mean and I do my little turn on the catwalk yeah on the catwalk I do my little turn on the catwalk. Not at your dumb party. Too sexy for my car, too sexy for my hat. What do you think
Starting point is 00:51:30 about that? I'm too sexy, Sam, I am. Green eggs and ham. This... If you're ever wondering, are we going to make it? No, we're not.
Starting point is 00:51:45 We're super not. This was a top, top hit. I love you all. See you soon.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.